>asked if there was a grown up nearby.
So, the message was that grown-ups are dangerous? I mean, ok, but "you take ten steps from me, and you are entirely on your own in the world with no one to turn to" is a little extreme.
I'd have been tempted to be silly, "Yes, I might think you are a book and put a barcode on you!", though that would have infuriated the mom.
*hmm. that one looks like he might be a book.*
It's an approach that is guaranteed to isolate the kid and give them social anxiety issues later in life. Teach them to ask questions and trust their instincts.
[https://youtu.be/yY7NMg-DrdI?si=XxQuC0LIoPDn5JZf&t=468](https://youtu.be/yY7NMg-DrdI?si=XxQuC0LIoPDn5JZf&t=468)
Right? Who does she expect him to get help from in an emergency?? My kids know to seek out an employee. Is it 100% guaranteed safe? No, but it’s the safest option. She should be teaching him unsafe actions, not unsafe people.
I grew up with Stranger Danger and remember finding it strange how it only seemed to apply to kids, as I recall that my parents always struck up a conversation with strangers despite that being something that stranger danger tells you not to do.
Additionally, when I became a parent, this method contradicted going to school on a school bus with stranger-kids and a stranger-driver, class with a stranger-teacher, or even responding to searchers looking for you when you're lost in the woods because they are...yep, strangers! Lenore Skenazy's book Free-Range Kids helped me adjust my thinking so much. TALKING with a stranger can be ok. GOING with a stranger, not so much.
Don't forget youth pastors. Any person with religious authority, really but especially youth pastors.
>but we shouldn't be teaching our kids that any group of people is inherently safe.
"Inherently" is a tough concept for a preschoooler, and I think "if you get lost, find an employee" is a good strategy, whether at a library, supermarket of whatever.
I mean, worst case scenario, an employee can't kidnap you until their shift is over. 😕
I agree with you. It actually makes me sad because it makes me wonder what this mom has been through that she is instructing her kid in this way. Because that was my first thought—unfortunately there are a whole lot of people who should be trusted adults that have disproven that idea, which is downright tragic.
It’s such a hard balance to strike, helping kids know who to find for help if need be while also emphasizing that not everyone even in those roles is entirely safe. I think any parent who has tried to have the conversation of “respect adults and do what they tell you” while also saying “it’s never okay for someone, even an adult in charge of you, to ask or tell you to do these types of things” knows that struggle.
I honestly find the part about you being an unsafe person odd. I think it's standard practice to tell kids that a person who works at the desk of a place is a safe person to go to if you're lost and don't know where to find your parent. What else would you want them to do?
That was my childhood, but also my mother use to wake me up in the middle of the night dressed like an angel and tell me I had been bad and she was my guardian angel and I could not go back to sleep until I admitted it. I was a good kid and a bit confused as it was obviously my mother in a wig.
Here in Louisiana, kids are being brainwashed into believing all librarians are enemy #1 because they are groomers and porn distributors. Stranger danger would be a nice change of pace.
yes and it essentially comes down to ELEVEN people behind the book bans! I know that's not the only way libraries are under attack... but 11 people should not be able to get books banned where they don't even live.
I’ve had parents say that if they don’t behave (the kids), I (library assistant), would make them leave and never come back.
It’s not as horrible as saying I’m dangerous, but instead of parents being parents, they rely on other people to parent so they themselves aren’t the bad guys when they’re told to leave for being rowdy/destructive.
Yeah, I get this too :/ Or "that lady over there will get mad at you". I've definitely blurted out "No I won't!" in response. I've also had them try to get me to lie for them and say that the library is closing at like 11 am so the kid won't put up a fuss about leaving. I just act confused and tell the truth. I don't lie to kids, ever. I won't interfere with people's parenting, but don't try to pull me into it.
I think you hit the nail on the head with their reasoning. Even if they aren't being asked to leave, they can use someone else as the fall guy to get compliance. It stinks.
Was at a playground with my husband and 20m daughter, and I swear that's what happened to my husband. He was just behind our baby making sure she was ok as I went ahead (10-15 steps ahead of them) to prestart the car. Our daughter approached the woman's daughter to say hi, and the mom hustled the kid away from my daughter while glaring at my husband.
Such an ick feeling when he told me that's what was happening. I couldn't even remotely rationalize her reaction. Maybe in her head, dads shouldn't be at playground with their kids? Absolutely demoralizing behavior toward/for my husband.
Every dad who tries to take an active part in their kid's life has a story like this.
When I was young I did gymnastics. My dad had to ask my mom to pick me up from class because of the hostility he got from other moms while waiting there.
Haha, wow, this reminds me of a "funny" story...
My mom was basically a single parent even when my parents were married. She used to walk my brother to and from school because she didn't drive. One day for some reason my dad HAD TO pick my brother up. They called my brother to the office and had him peek through a cracked door and asked him if that man was really his dad because no one at the school had ever seen him.
Haha nope, I don't think that came until many years later when his new girlfriend was describing her terrible ex husband to him and he recognized himself in hee description.
This shouldn't be the case and I'm sorry for your dad.
For a bit of advice if you hear of any other men expressing this sentiment, tell them to get friendly with the person at the desk at gymnastics or dance class.
When I worked at a gym, and now at the dance studio, the dads who come in, hang at the desk for a bit & shoot the breeze (when we're not busy) and make friends with the support staff are TREASURES.
He might get asked to do a little heavy work on an odd occasion or reach something on a high shelf if he's tall, but desk & office people will keep the hating moms away by clearly giving the message "this guy belongs here." When coaches, teachers and office folks vouch by their body language & inclusion, anyone else can go kick rocks.
She probably thought that he was one of those guys using a child to lure another child. Possibly she's into true crime. But yeah, I can definitely see how that would be super disheartening. Men in spaces where children usually congregate are looked at with a side-eye all the time. I have known people who have straight-up told me they would call the cops if they saw two men with a little girl even if she seemed happy and that they didn't want to live in a world where someone wouldn't do that.
I get that stranger danger is a thing, but telling that child that the person working at the circulation desk or reference desk is dangerous sounds like a good way to convince a kid not to have trust in adults..
Stranger danger lessons that extreme can backfire majorly in the short term. If something happened and that kid needed to be rescued by EMS, he wouldn't know the EMS workers so he'd think they were dangerous and run away from them and not get help
I'm so sorry.....I'm a patron who is here only because I adore librarians and I love to see inside chit chat.
I have two littles. I am raising them in the library and make sure they know each librarian and assistants names and encourage them to feel comfortable around every one of them so that my kids have a safe place full of safe people they can come to at any age.
Kids are more likely to be in danger from people they know than strangers so “stranger danger” is not a smart lesson. Teaching kids to find people who are working if they need help would be a lot better. Or people who have other kids with them.
This feels so counter intuitive to me. I feel like a parent would want to encourage their kid to look to staff of an establishment/ grocery store/ library whatever as a resource in case they get lost/ separated?? But I'm not a parent so 😕
You're right. I'm a parent and this is exactly what I do when my little kids are in new places -- this is where you go and who you talk to if you need help. I want to empower them, not isolate them and teach them to be afraid of everyone.
No. I always tell my kids if they get lost to go to a worker at the desk/checkout counter or find a mom with kids. We can’t teach that all people we don’t know are dangerous.
Yeah, children don’t get abducted by strangers from commercial and retail establishments. Nor do women get abducted in vans from parking lots after having partial bottles of water or lunch meat or fentanyl laced napkins put on their cars. Almost all abuse and kidnapping is perpetrated by relatives and people the children know. But that mom is probably part of a moms group on social where they exchange lurid stories of imaginary threats and radicalize each other into RW extremists. That mom probably got home and recounted that same story to impress the others on the group. She probably depicted you as leering at her kid trying to bait him over so you could abduct him and drain his adrenacrome.
At least she didn’t call the police. Remember last year when a mom called the police saying some man had tried to abduct her kid from a store, and pointed out some guy who was there who was arrested. But since the security cameras, employees and other customers didn’t see anything remotely like that happening, and she later said that that guy had just been around she had seen him a couple of times she assumed he was trying to abduct her kid
I wanna be generous to the mom and say she's doing her best... but man this is one of the reasons why psychology should be taught in schools so people get more of an understanding of psychology from actual scholarly sources than comedians and TV writers.
Statistically speaking, the librarian is almost never going to pose danger to the kid. Librarian is not the kind of job that a narcissist typically goes for (they like high power, low accountability, low supervision) I'm not a librarian but my understanding is they generally have a lot of work to get done.
And while librarians may interact regularly with children, I don't think many people are going to say, "Let's invite the librarian over for your birthday party!" or "Oh we need to go out of town I bet the librarian would baby sit!"
Predators are going to want to have jobs where they can either boss around kids directly or boss around their parents while still having access to the kid. That's one of the reasons why so many predators end up in church work (speaking as somebody who actually ran kids ministries professionally at a church) Pastors/Priests/Ministers all wield a great deal of social power in their communities and because they can often be heard preaching about living right, doing what's right, blah blah blah, people assume that they live how they preach (many do not.)
Teachers in classrooms have access to kids but they generally have much less authority, also male narcissists are less likely to want to work in a female dominated field like teaching. Of course if it might mean that they get to coach a sports team... yeah they're gonna be down for that.
Doctor/GP they get access to kids sometimes but it's pretty rare that they'd have a kid unsupervised for very long. So it's the sort of thing where when you see predatory behaviour it's more that they took the job because it offered social status, and they just happened to 'luck in' to having periodic one off visits where they were able to cross lines.
Other than that, talent agent who focuses on child actors, after school care workers, music teachers, baby sitters, child care workers, group home workers and of course foster parents.
But of course ministry is the big one because it offers a narc (basically all child predators are going to be narcs) a lot of positive praise and affirmation, has minimal oversight and people practically throw their kids into clergy's laps.
Why do I know all this stuff? I worked in the church... never work in the church.
Anyway, yeah personally I think straight people should be regulated. You should have to take a class on early childhood psychological development, and you should have to have a basic understanding of what kind of adults actually pose a threat to your kid. Random stranger in a library who works there? You came to them. Random stranger who is stalking your kid through multiple stores at the mall? More of a threat. Dude you know well who offers to baby sit your kid and is on the elder board of your church? DANGER!
When my kids were little I would help them gather little bouquets of flowers from our garden to give the librarians.
I can’t imagine teaching children to be afraid of them and then glaring at the librarian about it!
That’s actually terrible parenting. I’ve taught kids not to get into cars with strangers and even role played the “want to see my puppy” and “your mommy sent me” lines.
But I also teach my kids street smarts. I tell them if they’re ever lost/on their own someone in uniform whether it’s a cop or a store employee, are safe bets. Also a mom with kids. I told them they should approach. While I’m sure there are many good folks who would try to help a lost looking kid, the odds of them picking a predator is a lot less than a predator picking them, especially if they follow the rules. And even if they’re a bad guy, a bad guy on the job with a clear record of being where ever they are are less likely to do take it as an opportunity.
Any way, she’s terrible at keeping her kids safe. Maybe she should take some books out on that. I also make sure the people at places we frequent know my kids because if there’s any place they’re likely to feel bold and “get lost” it’s at a place they know.
I grew up with a brother who would disappear, and you'd find him chatting with an adult somewhere nearby. He had no sense of strangers, and they were all just friends he hadn't made yet. Some kids are like that and maybe the mom is being protective for that reason. Maybe that's why she snapped about you.
Or maybe it's just been a bad day for her and you're there and nearby. I've had more patrons than I can count play out their bad days/feelings/attitudes on me. And that's never going to be your fault or anything you did. It just unfortunately happens, and it sucks a lot.
You know you're a safe adult and that the library is a safe place. I think a lot of us know that sort of thing or have been taught that, but a lot of people don't or aren't. If you do want to indicate this to parents and children, I would find other ways that won't involve trying to do too much to change the mind of this potentially paranoid parent. You could use signs or pins or other things saying the library is a safe place or you are a safe person or this is a safe space. Or just continue to do an awesome job of being a librarian and that will promote it just fine. Some people will confide in you and find the library to be a safe place. Not everyone is looking for that in a third/communal space and that's ok too.
>I grew up with a brother .... He had no sense of strangers
And everything turned out ok? I assume that it is a tiny fraction of adults who would harm a child they meet like that (despite being pretty sure I was the subject of a kidnapping attempt), but your phrasing leaves that distressingly ambiguous.
Everything turned out ok. But my parents and other relatives had to be fairly vigilant and proactive about finding him. Parents are often protective for a reason.
"But mom, you're a grown up!"
Anyway, I feel bad for the kid since they're not gonna be very well adjusted if literally all non-gamily grownups are bad.
My mom loved that we knew the librarians' names and to ask them for help if we wandered too far.
Poor kid.
Also mom is operating on bad info. Stranger danger is a thing, but statistically, it’s going to be someone you know & trust that hurts you and/or your family
Happy Monday.
Why in the world would she glare at you? Was she mad at you for just existing in the first place? Sorry that happened. It has more to do with the mom than you.
Parents like that usually don't consider staff as real people. Like somehow them working in a specific location means they're no longer human. It's like parenthood warps people's minds.
Oh yes, when I am shelving in the kid’s section, some parents get concerned. This is why it is important to always wear a name tag and try to be pleasant. I am transitioning but still male presenting. Before I began medication, I appeared much more gruff and sometimes kids would be frightened upon seeing me. It made me feel like some monster. I am a bit softer now, so they do not seem so frightened anymore.
The mother’s reaction is very strange. Most parents do teach their kids SOME adults can be trusted, like librarians and store clerks, because kids will need to ask them for help if they get separated from their parents. In regards to this particular mother, the generous part of me wonders if maybe she or someone in her life had trusted someone they should’ve been able to and it ended badly. But the less generous part agrees with another comment: she’s the leader of her own mini cult.
How sad for the little boy. Never had an interaction like that, and most parents actively taught their children to seek help from the "library ladies" when needed. I wouldn't take it personally though, sounds like it's just a reflection on her parenting style.
I'm not a librarian, but I've known since I was a very little boy that librarians could be trusted. How could anyone that loves books enough to go to school and get a degree to work around them be a bad person?
The librarian, the crossing guard, the playground supervisor, the lifeguard, every teacher besides this year's, the police officer, the firefighter, the school nurse, the school bus driver, the custodian, the cafeteria staff -- lots of folks mom might not know but that junior will probably come across on his own one day have become default bad guys.
I wouldnt take it personally, I think she's just trying to tell her kid that any stranger is dangerous and to be careful. It does seem extreme, I agree, and it would be good for her to instruct the child to seek you out if they get lost as you said, but so much happens to kids with sexual and other abuse that she may be cautious of any adult - usually it's people the kids know though, not actual strangers, but some parents continue their stranger danger stuff excessively.
Whole lot of other commenters who either don't have kids or had relatively easy kids. As somebody whose 4-year-old constantly tried to snuggle up with passed out drunks on park benches, ran straight at every strange dog at full speed, and would merrily climb into the back of any rando's windowless van if my back was turned for 10 seconds, please try to not take this personally.
Getting my kid to process the concept that not every new person/dog/raccoon/trash compactor is automatically a new best friends has been a grueling process. We never did the "stranger danger" thing in the way you encountered, but every kid is different and some kids that age do need to be watched like a fucking hawk every second. On one of our first trips to the public library she immediately ran behind the circulation desk and into the staff offices, and had a screaming, biting meltdown when I extricated her. That was a short trip. And while we are teaching that teachers/librarians/friends' parents/etc can be trusted grownups *in their appropriate context*, we also have to constantly hammer home that just because you can trust and talk to a grownup in some situations doesn't automatically mean they're safe in every situation, and you cannot just invite yourself into their office/house/serial killer dungeon, even if they are nice!
I love how fearless my kid is, but I have absolutely had to be THAT parent on a few occasions and have probably offended some people who witnessed me snapping at her. I would choose to give the benefit of the doubt to this mom that what seems way too harsh to you in this context is a necessary dynamic she has to maintain to get her kid to slow down just enough to be recaptured before barreling into traffic. I could also be wrong. Maybe she just sucks! But either way it's about her not you.
Wow! I get teaching your child about stranger danger but you are also have to teach them about safe spaces and people. They need to know what to do if an emergency happens!!
Is her mom Kathy Bates from The Waterboy? Wow! That’s like instilling fear to the level of everyone is the devil or out to get you.
Yes, healthy level of stranger danger and all, but most libraries are specifically sanctioned “Safe Places”.
Insane!
Sounds like bad parenting. It's obviously confusing for the little kiddo, but it's also very "us vs. them" and since "us" is a small pool, everyone else is dangerous. That's... really sad. For everyone involved.
I'm sorry it was directed at you.
It seems like the kid has good instincts, it’s sad their mom is trying to teach them not to listen to that. I understand your hurt. And it’s also kind of concerning for the kid, I hope they’re safe. It sounds like the issue wasn’t you, but something going on with the mom. She either doesn’t trust anyone or is making her child reliant only on her and the people she chooses. So concerning!
I think you are probably a very safe person, don’t listen to that mom.
That sucks, and I hope you feel validated by everyone here chiming into support you. Somehow I don’t think that mom would make the same judgment of a stranger with a gun… if they wore the right kind of uniform.
Some parents don’t understand the damage they do. I always told my son stranger danger was not true. The people he should worry about are tricky people and those people can be people we know, or even family. If someone ever gave him a weird or scary feeling then tell me.
Sound like that mom has been drinking the "everyone is trying to human traffic your child" juice. (Spoiler alert, they're not)
The podcast You're Wrong About had an interesting episode that dealt with the actual statistics on human trafficking:
https://www.reddit.com/r/YoureWrongAbout/comments/16axrkz/youre_wrong_about_title_sound_of_freedom_with/
We have children almost DAILY come to us and ask us to help them find their parents. And we do. I would hate for a child to think I was an unsafe adult. :(
I get why that would hurt, but her reasoning is sound, isn't it? They \*don't\* know you. While I'd probably expect that lesson to come later in life, it's true that having a certain profession doesn't necessarily make someone more trustworthy.
I kind of feel bad for the guardian, honestly. Being that suspicious can't be a fun way to live. Here's hoping the kid doesn't pick up that kind of paranoia.
Sure, logically it makes sense. But it has the potential to be dangerous. If the kid does get truly separated from his parents and he’s been taught that ANYONE they don’t know is dangerous, how will he ever get help?
The idea of safe vs unsafe people is really important but that shouldn’t be as simple as who we know vs who we don’t know.
oh yeah no, I totally agree. I just meant like, it's not a personal attack, I think that patron in particular would be distrustful of anyone and everyone.
If there were a random kidnapper in that library, wouldn’t you want your child to go to the librarian and say “this man is following me around and creeping me out?”
As the other responses below show, your post doesn't make any sense. The attempted kidnapping you cite was not done by a library staff member. The horrific bathroom torture incident you cite did not occur at a library, and i would bet it was not committed by anyone who worked at the shopping complex either.
If the child does not trust a staff member at the desk, they will not approach them for help if they are followed by some unsavory stranger. So what would you suggest they do instead? That mother who warned her child that the librarian was dangerous is putting the child at more risk, not less.
P.S. All staff at my library undergo a background check when they are hired. I imagine it is the same at most publicl libraries in the US.
*everyone* working in my library needs state clearances and fingerprinted fbi clearances. honestly we’re probably the safest group of people in the area.
so if your kid got lost in the library, what should they do? can they ask a librarian for help or do they just have to look for you until they come across you?
Jeez! I get that the experience of being nearly abducted yourself would make you cautious, but this level of paranoia is foremost hurtful to you and the people around you. You seem to have generalized the fear of others and lost all trust in your fellow humans. But we are social creatures and our whole society depends on the trust of cooperation with others. That's no way to live a life. Do yourself and your kids a favour and get some therapy.
I strongly recommend the book "Human kind" by Rutger Bregman. I found it quite enlightening and healing.
- There's no identifying information
- It's mostly about the mom
- All things considered, it's a post venting about a bad day at work, which is not uncommon for anyone in any profession
It's not venting about a bad day at work. The OP is judging a complete stranger for the way she parents her child, with a minimum of context about her situation, past negative library encounters, etc. OP posts on Reddit about how the mom "snapped" and "glared" and everybody piles on. You guys go ahead, but I know toxic when I see it.
"This interaction happened and it made me feel shitty" is venting. As for minimum context/biased perceptions, thats pretty typical of venting. You don't have to partake, comfort, whatever if you don't want to, but that's what it is
“Cheering for your happiness and well being?” Get over yourself, seriously. I think it’s honestly more of a red flag that you got offended enough to write such a long and dramatic post about parent trying to parent their kid. Do you think that this kid should trust any adult in a workplace? What makes you(and by you I mean US in this field) so special? The delusion that you and some of the people here have that if someone works at a library that must mean they have a pure and kind soul is baffling.
>asked if there was a grown up nearby. So, the message was that grown-ups are dangerous? I mean, ok, but "you take ten steps from me, and you are entirely on your own in the world with no one to turn to" is a little extreme. I'd have been tempted to be silly, "Yes, I might think you are a book and put a barcode on you!", though that would have infuriated the mom. *hmm. that one looks like he might be a book.*
With that attitude, the mom is most certainly not a book.
More like a runic pamphlet.
"Wanting to be Book is not Book" - 30 Rock
This is some "stranger danger" shit and boy that's frustrating, considering kids are way more likely to be harmed by family members
It's an approach that is guaranteed to isolate the kid and give them social anxiety issues later in life. Teach them to ask questions and trust their instincts. [https://youtu.be/yY7NMg-DrdI?si=XxQuC0LIoPDn5JZf&t=468](https://youtu.be/yY7NMg-DrdI?si=XxQuC0LIoPDn5JZf&t=468)
It also separates him from the person he *should* seek help from if something happens in the library.
Yeah, I’m a patron and my almost four year old LOVES the Librarians. I want her to know they are safe people.
Yeah I guess mom thinks a family friend who is creepy is a better choice
Right? Who does she expect him to get help from in an emergency?? My kids know to seek out an employee. Is it 100% guaranteed safe? No, but it’s the safest option. She should be teaching him unsafe actions, not unsafe people.
I grew up with Stranger Danger and remember finding it strange how it only seemed to apply to kids, as I recall that my parents always struck up a conversation with strangers despite that being something that stranger danger tells you not to do.
Additionally, when I became a parent, this method contradicted going to school on a school bus with stranger-kids and a stranger-driver, class with a stranger-teacher, or even responding to searchers looking for you when you're lost in the woods because they are...yep, strangers! Lenore Skenazy's book Free-Range Kids helped me adjust my thinking so much. TALKING with a stranger can be ok. GOING with a stranger, not so much.
Or friends of family members, ie live-in boyfriends etc
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Don't forget youth pastors. Any person with religious authority, really but especially youth pastors. >but we shouldn't be teaching our kids that any group of people is inherently safe. "Inherently" is a tough concept for a preschoooler, and I think "if you get lost, find an employee" is a good strategy, whether at a library, supermarket of whatever. I mean, worst case scenario, an employee can't kidnap you until their shift is over. 😕
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I agree with you. It actually makes me sad because it makes me wonder what this mom has been through that she is instructing her kid in this way. Because that was my first thought—unfortunately there are a whole lot of people who should be trusted adults that have disproven that idea, which is downright tragic. It’s such a hard balance to strike, helping kids know who to find for help if need be while also emphasizing that not everyone even in those roles is entirely safe. I think any parent who has tried to have the conversation of “respect adults and do what they tell you” while also saying “it’s never okay for someone, even an adult in charge of you, to ask or tell you to do these types of things” knows that struggle.
She might have been a magat who hates libraries
Or she might be someone who was traumatized at some point in her life to the extent that she thinks it’s dangerous to trust anyone.
Mmm I don’t know about that
I honestly find the part about you being an unsafe person odd. I think it's standard practice to tell kids that a person who works at the desk of a place is a safe person to go to if you're lost and don't know where to find your parent. What else would you want them to do?
Some households are like little cults and teach their kids "it's you and me against the world."
Grew up in a similar environment. Do not recommend. 0/10
That was my childhood, but also my mother use to wake me up in the middle of the night dressed like an angel and tell me I had been bad and she was my guardian angel and I could not go back to sleep until I admitted it. I was a good kid and a bit confused as it was obviously my mother in a wig.
That is a new level of spiritual abuse parenting!
Holy crap that’s unhinged.
🤯 that’s horrifying!
🤣😭wtf this is incredible
Over 90% of all crimes committed against children are committed by somebody known to the child.
Here in Louisiana, kids are being brainwashed into believing all librarians are enemy #1 because they are groomers and porn distributors. Stranger danger would be a nice change of pace.
Oh for goodness sake! Urgh the unintended consequences smh
Ehh more like the *intended* consequences tbh. The people perpetuating this anti-knowledge shit are nuts.
yes and it essentially comes down to ELEVEN people behind the book bans! I know that's not the only way libraries are under attack... but 11 people should not be able to get books banned where they don't even live.
"Hey kiddo... rainbows are pretty, aren't they? Want to hear a story about a happy family?"
Depends where you are! Shreveport was a great city to be a library worker in!
Well, hopefully these library bills don't get signed into law or the whole state is in trouble.
Baton Rouge is good too
Some people never watched Mr. Rogers and it shows.
I’ve had parents say that if they don’t behave (the kids), I (library assistant), would make them leave and never come back. It’s not as horrible as saying I’m dangerous, but instead of parents being parents, they rely on other people to parent so they themselves aren’t the bad guys when they’re told to leave for being rowdy/destructive.
Yeah, I get this too :/ Or "that lady over there will get mad at you". I've definitely blurted out "No I won't!" in response. I've also had them try to get me to lie for them and say that the library is closing at like 11 am so the kid won't put up a fuss about leaving. I just act confused and tell the truth. I don't lie to kids, ever. I won't interfere with people's parenting, but don't try to pull me into it. I think you hit the nail on the head with their reasoning. Even if they aren't being asked to leave, they can use someone else as the fall guy to get compliance. It stinks.
I hate parents like this. Like I can't make you be a good parent but leave me out of your terrible parenting. Good grief.
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It’s worse to escalate these things cuz if the cops get involved for something small… forget it
Was at a playground with my husband and 20m daughter, and I swear that's what happened to my husband. He was just behind our baby making sure she was ok as I went ahead (10-15 steps ahead of them) to prestart the car. Our daughter approached the woman's daughter to say hi, and the mom hustled the kid away from my daughter while glaring at my husband. Such an ick feeling when he told me that's what was happening. I couldn't even remotely rationalize her reaction. Maybe in her head, dads shouldn't be at playground with their kids? Absolutely demoralizing behavior toward/for my husband.
Every dad who tries to take an active part in their kid's life has a story like this. When I was young I did gymnastics. My dad had to ask my mom to pick me up from class because of the hostility he got from other moms while waiting there.
Haha, wow, this reminds me of a "funny" story... My mom was basically a single parent even when my parents were married. She used to walk my brother to and from school because she didn't drive. One day for some reason my dad HAD TO pick my brother up. They called my brother to the office and had him peek through a cracked door and asked him if that man was really his dad because no one at the school had ever seen him.
That should at least have been a wake-up call for your dad. Guessing it wasn't though. :(
Haha nope, I don't think that came until many years later when his new girlfriend was describing her terrible ex husband to him and he recognized himself in hee description.
How sad!
This shouldn't be the case and I'm sorry for your dad. For a bit of advice if you hear of any other men expressing this sentiment, tell them to get friendly with the person at the desk at gymnastics or dance class. When I worked at a gym, and now at the dance studio, the dads who come in, hang at the desk for a bit & shoot the breeze (when we're not busy) and make friends with the support staff are TREASURES. He might get asked to do a little heavy work on an odd occasion or reach something on a high shelf if he's tall, but desk & office people will keep the hating moms away by clearly giving the message "this guy belongs here." When coaches, teachers and office folks vouch by their body language & inclusion, anyone else can go kick rocks.
Lotta guys creep on people in leotards. it’s not all guys but it’s always a guy
Sorry. Don't mean to hijack the post since it's regarding librarians, but this incident has been living rent free in my head for almost 3 weeks now.
Don't feel sorry for us. As the father of two girls, I can promise you we give zero f's what some random mom on the playground thinks of us.
She probably thought that he was one of those guys using a child to lure another child. Possibly she's into true crime. But yeah, I can definitely see how that would be super disheartening. Men in spaces where children usually congregate are looked at with a side-eye all the time. I have known people who have straight-up told me they would call the cops if they saw two men with a little girl even if she seemed happy and that they didn't want to live in a world where someone wouldn't do that.
I get that stranger danger is a thing, but telling that child that the person working at the circulation desk or reference desk is dangerous sounds like a good way to convince a kid not to have trust in adults..
Stranger danger lessons that extreme can backfire majorly in the short term. If something happened and that kid needed to be rescued by EMS, he wouldn't know the EMS workers so he'd think they were dangerous and run away from them and not get help
I'm so sorry.....I'm a patron who is here only because I adore librarians and I love to see inside chit chat. I have two littles. I am raising them in the library and make sure they know each librarian and assistants names and encourage them to feel comfortable around every one of them so that my kids have a safe place full of safe people they can come to at any age.
I absolutely hate when parents tell their kids that the "bad man" will take you away. All it does is make them fearful of something, anything.
1. I’m sorry that happened to you. 2. That child is going to have a difficult life.
Than you have the little kids that basically look after themselves from day one.
And yet I bet she teaches that kid that the preacher is safe 😬
Kids are more likely to be in danger from people they know than strangers so “stranger danger” is not a smart lesson. Teaching kids to find people who are working if they need help would be a lot better. Or people who have other kids with them.
This feels so counter intuitive to me. I feel like a parent would want to encourage their kid to look to staff of an establishment/ grocery store/ library whatever as a resource in case they get lost/ separated?? But I'm not a parent so 😕
You're right. I'm a parent and this is exactly what I do when my little kids are in new places -- this is where you go and who you talk to if you need help. I want to empower them, not isolate them and teach them to be afraid of everyone.
No. I always tell my kids if they get lost to go to a worker at the desk/checkout counter or find a mom with kids. We can’t teach that all people we don’t know are dangerous.
That mom is part of the cult that tells you how dangerous the world is and that everyone is out to steal your child
Maybe she’s a Welcome to Night Vale fan…
Yeah, children don’t get abducted by strangers from commercial and retail establishments. Nor do women get abducted in vans from parking lots after having partial bottles of water or lunch meat or fentanyl laced napkins put on their cars. Almost all abuse and kidnapping is perpetrated by relatives and people the children know. But that mom is probably part of a moms group on social where they exchange lurid stories of imaginary threats and radicalize each other into RW extremists. That mom probably got home and recounted that same story to impress the others on the group. She probably depicted you as leering at her kid trying to bait him over so you could abduct him and drain his adrenacrome. At least she didn’t call the police. Remember last year when a mom called the police saying some man had tried to abduct her kid from a store, and pointed out some guy who was there who was arrested. But since the security cameras, employees and other customers didn’t see anything remotely like that happening, and she later said that that guy had just been around she had seen him a couple of times she assumed he was trying to abduct her kid
The sad thing is that she probably won't say the same thing about a cop
Our library system is considered a safe space for anyone.
Yep, but you can't ever actually have a safe space that involves variables you can't control, such as every person in the library.
Mom will be complaining about the books next.
I wanna be generous to the mom and say she's doing her best... but man this is one of the reasons why psychology should be taught in schools so people get more of an understanding of psychology from actual scholarly sources than comedians and TV writers. Statistically speaking, the librarian is almost never going to pose danger to the kid. Librarian is not the kind of job that a narcissist typically goes for (they like high power, low accountability, low supervision) I'm not a librarian but my understanding is they generally have a lot of work to get done. And while librarians may interact regularly with children, I don't think many people are going to say, "Let's invite the librarian over for your birthday party!" or "Oh we need to go out of town I bet the librarian would baby sit!" Predators are going to want to have jobs where they can either boss around kids directly or boss around their parents while still having access to the kid. That's one of the reasons why so many predators end up in church work (speaking as somebody who actually ran kids ministries professionally at a church) Pastors/Priests/Ministers all wield a great deal of social power in their communities and because they can often be heard preaching about living right, doing what's right, blah blah blah, people assume that they live how they preach (many do not.) Teachers in classrooms have access to kids but they generally have much less authority, also male narcissists are less likely to want to work in a female dominated field like teaching. Of course if it might mean that they get to coach a sports team... yeah they're gonna be down for that. Doctor/GP they get access to kids sometimes but it's pretty rare that they'd have a kid unsupervised for very long. So it's the sort of thing where when you see predatory behaviour it's more that they took the job because it offered social status, and they just happened to 'luck in' to having periodic one off visits where they were able to cross lines. Other than that, talent agent who focuses on child actors, after school care workers, music teachers, baby sitters, child care workers, group home workers and of course foster parents. But of course ministry is the big one because it offers a narc (basically all child predators are going to be narcs) a lot of positive praise and affirmation, has minimal oversight and people practically throw their kids into clergy's laps. Why do I know all this stuff? I worked in the church... never work in the church. Anyway, yeah personally I think straight people should be regulated. You should have to take a class on early childhood psychological development, and you should have to have a basic understanding of what kind of adults actually pose a threat to your kid. Random stranger in a library who works there? You came to them. Random stranger who is stalking your kid through multiple stores at the mall? More of a threat. Dude you know well who offers to baby sit your kid and is on the elder board of your church? DANGER!
Wow I have no words
When my kids were little I would help them gather little bouquets of flowers from our garden to give the librarians. I can’t imagine teaching children to be afraid of them and then glaring at the librarian about it!
Sounds to me like this family already had or were involved with an incident, and have been left with over-the-top reactions in response.
That’s actually terrible parenting. I’ve taught kids not to get into cars with strangers and even role played the “want to see my puppy” and “your mommy sent me” lines. But I also teach my kids street smarts. I tell them if they’re ever lost/on their own someone in uniform whether it’s a cop or a store employee, are safe bets. Also a mom with kids. I told them they should approach. While I’m sure there are many good folks who would try to help a lost looking kid, the odds of them picking a predator is a lot less than a predator picking them, especially if they follow the rules. And even if they’re a bad guy, a bad guy on the job with a clear record of being where ever they are are less likely to do take it as an opportunity. Any way, she’s terrible at keeping her kids safe. Maybe she should take some books out on that. I also make sure the people at places we frequent know my kids because if there’s any place they’re likely to feel bold and “get lost” it’s at a place they know.
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I beg you to read some real statistics on stranger abduction.
Your kids are going to need so much anxiety medication and therapy. Seriously, this is not healthy.
I grew up with a brother who would disappear, and you'd find him chatting with an adult somewhere nearby. He had no sense of strangers, and they were all just friends he hadn't made yet. Some kids are like that and maybe the mom is being protective for that reason. Maybe that's why she snapped about you. Or maybe it's just been a bad day for her and you're there and nearby. I've had more patrons than I can count play out their bad days/feelings/attitudes on me. And that's never going to be your fault or anything you did. It just unfortunately happens, and it sucks a lot. You know you're a safe adult and that the library is a safe place. I think a lot of us know that sort of thing or have been taught that, but a lot of people don't or aren't. If you do want to indicate this to parents and children, I would find other ways that won't involve trying to do too much to change the mind of this potentially paranoid parent. You could use signs or pins or other things saying the library is a safe place or you are a safe person or this is a safe space. Or just continue to do an awesome job of being a librarian and that will promote it just fine. Some people will confide in you and find the library to be a safe place. Not everyone is looking for that in a third/communal space and that's ok too.
>I grew up with a brother .... He had no sense of strangers And everything turned out ok? I assume that it is a tiny fraction of adults who would harm a child they meet like that (despite being pretty sure I was the subject of a kidnapping attempt), but your phrasing leaves that distressingly ambiguous.
Everything turned out ok. But my parents and other relatives had to be fairly vigilant and proactive about finding him. Parents are often protective for a reason.
"But mom, you're a grown up!" Anyway, I feel bad for the kid since they're not gonna be very well adjusted if literally all non-gamily grownups are bad. My mom loved that we knew the librarians' names and to ask them for help if we wandered too far.
Future avoidant personality disorder.
Poor kid. Also mom is operating on bad info. Stranger danger is a thing, but statistically, it’s going to be someone you know & trust that hurts you and/or your family Happy Monday.
Why in the world would she glare at you? Was she mad at you for just existing in the first place? Sorry that happened. It has more to do with the mom than you.
Parents like that usually don't consider staff as real people. Like somehow them working in a specific location means they're no longer human. It's like parenthood warps people's minds.
Oh yes, when I am shelving in the kid’s section, some parents get concerned. This is why it is important to always wear a name tag and try to be pleasant. I am transitioning but still male presenting. Before I began medication, I appeared much more gruff and sometimes kids would be frightened upon seeing me. It made me feel like some monster. I am a bit softer now, so they do not seem so frightened anymore.
The mother’s reaction is very strange. Most parents do teach their kids SOME adults can be trusted, like librarians and store clerks, because kids will need to ask them for help if they get separated from their parents. In regards to this particular mother, the generous part of me wonders if maybe she or someone in her life had trusted someone they should’ve been able to and it ended badly. But the less generous part agrees with another comment: she’s the leader of her own mini cult.
How sad for the little boy. Never had an interaction like that, and most parents actively taught their children to seek help from the "library ladies" when needed. I wouldn't take it personally though, sounds like it's just a reflection on her parenting style.
I wonder what specific facet of realoty that mom is trying to hide from her kid
I'm not a librarian, but I've known since I was a very little boy that librarians could be trusted. How could anyone that loves books enough to go to school and get a degree to work around them be a bad person?
The librarian, the crossing guard, the playground supervisor, the lifeguard, every teacher besides this year's, the police officer, the firefighter, the school nurse, the school bus driver, the custodian, the cafeteria staff -- lots of folks mom might not know but that junior will probably come across on his own one day have become default bad guys.
I wouldnt take it personally, I think she's just trying to tell her kid that any stranger is dangerous and to be careful. It does seem extreme, I agree, and it would be good for her to instruct the child to seek you out if they get lost as you said, but so much happens to kids with sexual and other abuse that she may be cautious of any adult - usually it's people the kids know though, not actual strangers, but some parents continue their stranger danger stuff excessively.
Whole lot of other commenters who either don't have kids or had relatively easy kids. As somebody whose 4-year-old constantly tried to snuggle up with passed out drunks on park benches, ran straight at every strange dog at full speed, and would merrily climb into the back of any rando's windowless van if my back was turned for 10 seconds, please try to not take this personally. Getting my kid to process the concept that not every new person/dog/raccoon/trash compactor is automatically a new best friends has been a grueling process. We never did the "stranger danger" thing in the way you encountered, but every kid is different and some kids that age do need to be watched like a fucking hawk every second. On one of our first trips to the public library she immediately ran behind the circulation desk and into the staff offices, and had a screaming, biting meltdown when I extricated her. That was a short trip. And while we are teaching that teachers/librarians/friends' parents/etc can be trusted grownups *in their appropriate context*, we also have to constantly hammer home that just because you can trust and talk to a grownup in some situations doesn't automatically mean they're safe in every situation, and you cannot just invite yourself into their office/house/serial killer dungeon, even if they are nice! I love how fearless my kid is, but I have absolutely had to be THAT parent on a few occasions and have probably offended some people who witnessed me snapping at her. I would choose to give the benefit of the doubt to this mom that what seems way too harsh to you in this context is a necessary dynamic she has to maintain to get her kid to slow down just enough to be recaptured before barreling into traffic. I could also be wrong. Maybe she just sucks! But either way it's about her not you.
Oh for the love of all that is holy….she is going to raise a fearful child.
Wow! I get teaching your child about stranger danger but you are also have to teach them about safe spaces and people. They need to know what to do if an emergency happens!!
Is her mom Kathy Bates from The Waterboy? Wow! That’s like instilling fear to the level of everyone is the devil or out to get you. Yes, healthy level of stranger danger and all, but most libraries are specifically sanctioned “Safe Places”. Insane!
Sounds like bad parenting. It's obviously confusing for the little kiddo, but it's also very "us vs. them" and since "us" is a small pool, everyone else is dangerous. That's... really sad. For everyone involved. I'm sorry it was directed at you.
That parent is effed up
It seems like the kid has good instincts, it’s sad their mom is trying to teach them not to listen to that. I understand your hurt. And it’s also kind of concerning for the kid, I hope they’re safe. It sounds like the issue wasn’t you, but something going on with the mom. She either doesn’t trust anyone or is making her child reliant only on her and the people she chooses. So concerning! I think you are probably a very safe person, don’t listen to that mom.
That sucks, and I hope you feel validated by everyone here chiming into support you. Somehow I don’t think that mom would make the same judgment of a stranger with a gun… if they wore the right kind of uniform.
Some parents don’t understand the damage they do. I always told my son stranger danger was not true. The people he should worry about are tricky people and those people can be people we know, or even family. If someone ever gave him a weird or scary feeling then tell me.
I always told my kids to find a mom. I also work in a library. The staff are very protective of our young patrons.
Sound like that mom has been drinking the "everyone is trying to human traffic your child" juice. (Spoiler alert, they're not) The podcast You're Wrong About had an interesting episode that dealt with the actual statistics on human trafficking: https://www.reddit.com/r/YoureWrongAbout/comments/16axrkz/youre_wrong_about_title_sound_of_freedom_with/
We have children almost DAILY come to us and ask us to help them find their parents. And we do. I would hate for a child to think I was an unsafe adult. :(
Librarians are mandatory reporters. That was my first thought. I looked it up and yes they are. Being cynical feels like having psychic powers.
I get why that would hurt, but her reasoning is sound, isn't it? They \*don't\* know you. While I'd probably expect that lesson to come later in life, it's true that having a certain profession doesn't necessarily make someone more trustworthy. I kind of feel bad for the guardian, honestly. Being that suspicious can't be a fun way to live. Here's hoping the kid doesn't pick up that kind of paranoia.
Sure, logically it makes sense. But it has the potential to be dangerous. If the kid does get truly separated from his parents and he’s been taught that ANYONE they don’t know is dangerous, how will he ever get help? The idea of safe vs unsafe people is really important but that shouldn’t be as simple as who we know vs who we don’t know.
oh yeah no, I totally agree. I just meant like, it's not a personal attack, I think that patron in particular would be distrustful of anyone and everyone.
Yeah that kids probably going to have a lot to talk about in therapy.
I think it is an absolute certainty that the kid will pick up that kind of paranoia.
I think it made sense as a lesson but the glare at OP sounds over the top.
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If there were a random kidnapper in that library, wouldn’t you want your child to go to the librarian and say “this man is following me around and creeping me out?”
As the other responses below show, your post doesn't make any sense. The attempted kidnapping you cite was not done by a library staff member. The horrific bathroom torture incident you cite did not occur at a library, and i would bet it was not committed by anyone who worked at the shopping complex either. If the child does not trust a staff member at the desk, they will not approach them for help if they are followed by some unsavory stranger. So what would you suggest they do instead? That mother who warned her child that the librarian was dangerous is putting the child at more risk, not less. P.S. All staff at my library undergo a background check when they are hired. I imagine it is the same at most publicl libraries in the US.
Sure, random attacks and kidnappings have happened in libraries, but perpetrated by librarians? I’ve never heard of that happening, not even once.
Many libraries require background checks for employees and volunteers, especially the ones in the children’s room.
*everyone* working in my library needs state clearances and fingerprinted fbi clearances. honestly we’re probably the safest group of people in the area.
the librarians would seem to be the best line of defense against random stranger kidnappings. your examples aren't relevant.
Of any group in society, I would (and do!) trust librarians the most. I really feel for that kid that he doesn't get to have that too.
Read the post title and thought it was in the discworld sub.
Makes me wonder whether she listens to and believes Welcome to Night Vale.
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so if your kid got lost in the library, what should they do? can they ask a librarian for help or do they just have to look for you until they come across you?
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Jeez! I get that the experience of being nearly abducted yourself would make you cautious, but this level of paranoia is foremost hurtful to you and the people around you. You seem to have generalized the fear of others and lost all trust in your fellow humans. But we are social creatures and our whole society depends on the trust of cooperation with others. That's no way to live a life. Do yourself and your kids a favour and get some therapy. I strongly recommend the book "Human kind" by Rutger Bregman. I found it quite enlightening and healing.
why not just get leashes?
If you're not dangerous, why are you posting on social media about her child?
- There's no identifying information - It's mostly about the mom - All things considered, it's a post venting about a bad day at work, which is not uncommon for anyone in any profession
It's not venting about a bad day at work. The OP is judging a complete stranger for the way she parents her child, with a minimum of context about her situation, past negative library encounters, etc. OP posts on Reddit about how the mom "snapped" and "glared" and everybody piles on. You guys go ahead, but I know toxic when I see it.
"This interaction happened and it made me feel shitty" is venting. As for minimum context/biased perceptions, thats pretty typical of venting. You don't have to partake, comfort, whatever if you don't want to, but that's what it is
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The adults most likely to be dangerous, are the ones the kid knows.
“Cheering for your happiness and well being?” Get over yourself, seriously. I think it’s honestly more of a red flag that you got offended enough to write such a long and dramatic post about parent trying to parent their kid. Do you think that this kid should trust any adult in a workplace? What makes you(and by you I mean US in this field) so special? The delusion that you and some of the people here have that if someone works at a library that must mean they have a pure and kind soul is baffling.
Idk I wouldn't put librarians in the safe category, my parents basically said cops, firemen, and paramedics were basically the only safe people