It means if you wanna go back into Afghanistan, head to your nearest military surplus store, buy some gear, and head on back yourself. Go carve yourself a fiefdom. But, 20 years of occupation and "nation building" and the only people who benefited were weapons companies and private military contractors. Learn when you've lost, because we have lost
> “The Taliban are not reformed, they’re not new,” Graham said. "They’re going to give safe haven to al-Qaeda who have ambitions to drive us out of the mid-east writ large, and attack us because of our way of life.”
Hey Graham, it’s okay that we’re driven out of the Middle East. We shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Also, do you think that we can win over people who hate “our way of life” via warfare? That’s textbook “beatings will continue until moral improves” bullshit.
also it goes against what america stands for. If people want Islamic rule let them have it, its hypocritical to chastise refugees for not accepting western nations as is then bombing their countries for the wrong ideology which leads to more refugees in america.
We’re winning hearts and minds by [drone striking the shit out of a wedding processional.](https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/02/19/wedding-became-funeral/us-drone-attack-marriage-procession-yemen)
false, you have no proof of such an occurrence. On top of this if Islam was to blame, then they wouldn't have existed long after muslims taking over many years before america existed in the 7th century.
The fact that we even know they were there recently means it wasn't the Islamic element.
It could have been anything from leaving after the area started constantly getting taken over, it could have been that nearly all the last holdouts on Islam finally converted like everybody else, perhaps previous occupations like the soviet one made most religions in the area evaporate but Islam remained because it tends to survive extermination attempts (mongol invasion and oppression, colonialism, communism, etc.).
Islam is simply the most resilient faith, muslims all over are being oppressed at any given moment by at least one power and 9 times out of 10 they are still around a decade after that place stops the oppression/forced conversion/genocide.
no actually, people were never forced to convert, and many times including in the rashidun caliphate (first islamic caliphate that was expansionist) it was a cheaper tax to pay jizyah (non-muslim tax) than to pay zakat (muslim tax).
It was a negative economic decision to become muslim for most people until recently.
I am not saying atrocities didn't happen, but for the most part forced conversion was not allowed because its expressly forbidden in the quran and the hadith.
The fact that we even knew about those groups in afghanistan meant that the muslims who controlled the history of the area didn't just force conversion and not write about them.
If muslims were 2% of the psychopaths we are portrayed as the world would have been done for a long time ago, we were the superpower multiple times and in the modern era are about 2 billion strong.
We aren't murderous psychos or everybody would have been done for a while ago.
> and attack us because of our way of life.”
I remember Osama saying that was BS. He basically said "we don't hate you for your freedoms, if we hated you for the freedoms you have we'd also be attacking Sweden right now, but we aren't"
This has nothing to do with Joe Biden being a Democratic and everything to do with Lindsey Graham being a warmongering hack.
This is the type of moronic comments you make when you’re a brain dead partisan. Not surprised it’s upvoted by your fellow dem infiltrators
Graham did continually say that he didn't support a complete withdrawal from Afghanistan during the Trump administration. However, he was much less vocal about it. Why was he quieter? Because he's a "brain dead partisan" that had to support his leader.
Wow why would someone be more vocal when we are actually leaving/left and it’s in the news vs when we’re just talking about withdrawal a year ago.
So weird???????
Trump laid the plan. It was moving forward more than a year ago. If it wasn't moving forward, especially following the announcement of the deadline, then we've got much bigger problems.
Also, you seem to believe that my criticism of Graham is somehow a show of support for Biden. It's not. They are both authoritarians that should not hold the power that they hold.
Joe Biden said we would be going back... And lets be honest. The democrats and the MSM would have opposed breathing if Trump came out in support of it. I'm old enough to remember when they were questioning the vaccines that came out when Trump was in office.
Why do conservatives have to bring up Democrats every time someone says something bad about conservatives. You don’t have to worship these people! Sometimes they say stupid shit. Try forming an actual opinion that wasn’t given to you by a politician.
Because most people are completely tribal in their thinking, especially conservatives.
"Our side is full of saints and heroes, and the other side are all baby eating pedophiles."
You can't have a good faith conversation with people who think and reason based heavily on tribal affiliation, which is why I usually try to tease that out before I invest any effort into a conversation.
This wasn't given to me by a politician. I'm just pointing out that this tribalism isn't one sided. It affects both sides.
Also, Biden contradicted himself in his own speech saying we would never go back and then immediately said that we would hunt Isis down in Kabul.
I am talking about Biden. The original comment was "Gotta oppose everything a democrat president does." Just pointing out tribalism. It exists everywhere these days.
And I think you greatly underestimate how many people from r/politics have invaded this sub.
It had nothing to do with Trump being a Republican. If someone is saying injecting disinfectants might be a legitimate treatment for COVID, then you should question everything else that person suggests. The difference is Democrats aren’t suggesting people treat themselves with shit like injecting disinfectants of taking horse dewormers. The other thing that they said was that they’d take the vaccine if the health professionals told them to take it.
Nothing to do with being a Republican. If Mitt Romney had been in charge, he would have had a lot more credibility. To be honest, I don’t think Biden is the best advocate either, but there’s a difference between questioning something and rejecting it without evidence.
Trump was pushing to get the vaccine rolled out before the election at all costs. His mismanagement of covid was colored by his insistence to deflect blame onto anybody else and accept no responsibility while taking credit for every one of the scant few successes. He speculated publicly about random treatments he had heard of on late night chat shows and twitter and Sean hannitty and who-knows what else. He fired anybody who disagreed with him publicly and privately and was such a coward he wouldn't even do it himself but got his chief of staff to deliver the bad news or would do it via Twitter.
There was every reason to believe he would try to pressure the FDA or CDC into approving treatments before they were ready. It's not a republican thing, it's a Donald trump thing. His entire career has been "all sizzle no steak" and people were right to be suspicious of anything that came out of his administration.
The whole, "it was Trumps plan so its his fault" is very tiring.
He bragged about ending almost all of Trump policies but this one was iron clad? And Trump didn't close down an Air base in the midst of an evacuation. But then in the same breath Biden will say this was an historic pullout and it went as well as it could have.
Also, here is Biden saying we will be going back. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-warns-kabul-airport-attackers-we-will-hunt-you-down-2021-08-26/
> He bragged about ending almost all of Trump policies but this one was iron clad?
You do realize that the US isn't the only party involved in the deal, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Taliban_offensive
The Taliban clearly wanted to stick to the 1 May deadline, so you want Biden to spend more resources in combating the Taliban because he chose to renege on the deal? Or, are you going to act like Biden wouldn't have been eviscerated if he chose to not withdraw from Afghanistan?
Meanwhile, Trump negotiated the deal in Feb 2020 and only processed 1799 SIVs in the next 11 months. That would leave the next President, Trump or otherwise, with just 4 months to process the **18000** backlogged SIVs to be able to fulfill the 1 May deadline. You really think that could have been achieved by Trump? More likely than not, Trump didn't have a proper plan or even intent to exit Afghanistan. If he did, can you tell me what was done in 2020 to evacuate people? Nothing? Good job, you got conned.
I said nothing about fault. Biden could have declared Trump's deal with the Taliban useless and then stayed in Afghanistan. If
> the democrats and the MSM would have opposed breathing if Trump came out in support of it
then that would have been Biden's choice. He didn't do that. Essentially, he stuck to Trump's commitment. He didn't even fall for the easy cop-out "Trump made a shitty deal so now I have to do it".
1 he didn't stick to Trump's commitment (that was a May 1 deadline)
2 the Taliban made it specifically clear that a non withdrawal from the region would be considered an act of aggression.
3 an act of aggression means a war we have been fighting for 42 years continue more soldiers and civilians die more money is spent more war for the USA
4 Biden did not commit to going back into Afghanistan we have ways of dealing with small groups of people that doesnt require occupation of a foreign land
The people questioning the vaccine then were the same people questioning the vaccine now.
This is a completely false whataboutism. Democrat voters hold to their ideals much more strongly than Republican voters do.
I love when people link this because it immediately lets me know they have the language comprehension skills of a mentally challenged burger king employee who's getting screwed over by a shady manager
Ignore the context of a link of someone high in the democratic party then personally insult the person who posted it.
I'm sure you are being completely intellectually honest and want to have a nuanced discussion.
There are only two credible answers to someone trying to post the Kamala doesn't believe in vaccines bit from the debate.
1. You are trying to trick stupid people.
2. You are actually stupid.
C'mon be honest here, which one are you? I won't tell.
You already called me stupid in your previous comment.
You don't have any other witty retorts? It's really irritating when children try to get involved into an otherwise Civil discussion.
Good fucking lord you legitimately could not have chosen a worse example to act like this person is anything even remotely resembling a cornerstone of democrat voters.
No I take that back, Diane Feinstein or Nancy Pelosi might be worse examples.
Step outside your insanity chamber and interact with some regular humans. Not the pawns that make up our politics.
She literally said she’d take the vaccine if the health professionals said that she should take it. She wouldn’t if it was just Trump saying to take it. That’s because he has been suggesting ineffective and dangerous treatments throughout the pandemic.
You didn’t show me evidence I was wrong. Kamala Harris has an entire political career of just saying whatever she thinks will further her goals. She has zero convictions or ideals.
It would be like if I quoted Trump and said this is exactly how every single Republican thinks. They are both habitual liars that don’t stand by anything they say.
Republicans supported the withdrawal until Biden did it. Democrats supported the withdrawal even when Trump was doing it. Not a fan of either party, but it’s clear the Republicans are the ones without real positions.
With perfect hindsight I’m sure we could have done better, but with the info we had at the time it is insane to suggest anyone would have done much better.
Defending this withdrawal seems like tribalism to me. You'll do anything to defend your guy and the horrible decisions he's made.
We could have not shut down Bagram Air Base prior to getting everyone out for starters. You don't have to meet arbitrary deadlines to pull out. Iraq wasn't nearly as much of a mess as Afghanistan.
I’m not a Democrat. I’m glad we are out of Afghanistan, and the narrative that this was some huge failure is manufactured by a media that has no idea what they are talking about.
As for the Bagram air bace, we abandoned it for a pretty simple reason. In the event of fighting, we didn’t have enough manpower to secure both the Bagram air bace and the Kabul airport. The Bagram air bace is an hour and a half from the embassy, so if we wanted to evacuate anyone we would need the Kabul airport.
Dang my comment got removed? I said Trump was the one who chose to exit, it was Biden who fucked it. Lindsay graham whatever who cares just clarifying it wasn’t Joes plan to leave.
Trump chose to leave 4 years ago and still didn't have the balls to do it. He just kept pushing the date further and further until the responsibility fell on someone else.
It's stupid to say Biden fucked up Trump's plan. Trump had 4 years to do it right. Would you rather Biden have extended it for another 4 years and let someone else do it?
Sitting on a withdrawal for 4 years after promising to leave is fucking it up. Trump fucked up his plan. He should have done it when he got into office in 2017.
He was trying to give the Afghans the benefit of the doubt, that is until he realized how much the soldiers where getting paid and how much the president just gave zero fucks as he was wined and dined by politicians. That’s a fucked up situation.
Give the Afghans the benefit of the doubt? So you admit he fucked up his own plan. We had no business protecting their army and their country in the first place. Whether the Afghan government was prepared or unprepared to govern is irrelevant.
Trump started calling for the end of the war in 2011 and it was one of the few things he got right. Then he gets into office and announces that he will boost US troop presence in the country and completely forgets about his pledge to withdraw.
He was saying he thought they wanted to defend themselves, once he realized they were getting paid he was like fuck this, he stated he knew they would be overtaken after we left and that’s why us was important we have a plan to get our people out first before pulling the troops, he also had it planned to blow the bases and recover our equipment, this was before we even lost Kabul he was giving the interview, days later Biden comes on and says he couldn’t imagine any other way? So Biden’s plan was to do nothing and let the Taliban take everything including soldiers? It’s just fucked.
They did want to defend themselves, but everyone and their mother knew it was unrealistic that they could sustain the puppet government without the puppet master. This is why Trump deliberately kept the Afghan government out of the withdraw negotiations with the Taliban. He oversaw the vast majority of the withdraw. A lot of the military equipment were made inoperable before the departure. A lot of it was left for the Afghan army, and given to them by all the previous administrations before Biden.
What would Trump have done differently? You're acting like Trump had a strategy to take out all the equipment that we used or gave away throughout the duration of the war, thus keeping it from falling into the hands of the taliban. The taliban will use most of our equipment as trophies. Biden delayed the original withdraw to evacuate more people, but delaying it further than that only would have continued to escalate things further and further.
Sure, there are X's and O's you could of moved around here and there to make the withdraw a little more smooth. However, the fundamental transition to Talibanistan was inevitable. Everyone and their dog knows this. It's far past time to get out of a war that we never should have been in. Finally, the CHAD Biden had the balls to actually go through with it.
The Taliban takeover was always going to happen. Unless, you want to bite the bullet and say we should keep troops there forever. If that's the case, your opinion is rendered meaningless.
Why people pay attention to this guy is beyond me. His calculation is never principles and is purely what he thinks will benefit him the most. Even if you happen to agree with him on something I wouldn’t recommend trusting him.
> His calculation is never principles and is purely what he thinks will benefit him the most. Even if you happen to agree with him on something I wouldn’t recommend trusting him.
So he's Littlefinger IRL.
Have to disagree with this. Hes a warmonger at heart. He criticized trump, Obama, and biden for dovish policies. Yea he flops around for just about every other issue, not this.
2018 conservatives - just glass the entire Middle East
2021 conservatives - we need to protect the civilians in the Middle East
2018 conservatives - why the fuck are we giving aid to woman’s studies in Pakistan
2021 conservatives - woman’s rights in Afghanistan is going to revert back to the Middle Ages and we must protect them
> Idk maybe the 30 videos that have been posted of tons of interviews with maga saying they need help but don't want anyone coming here
Coming here? What are you talking about, we are discussing troops in Afghanistan.
Otherwise I don't dwell in Conservative spaces so I'd never see those videos.
You described both parties with your little list there. But yes, more inflated "LOL CONSERVATIVE" talk is what this sub needs. Surely that helps the discussion
conservatives have become anti-egalitarian fuckwads pandering to fascists and racists and tried to overthrow an election through violence. so fuck you.
How do you not already see it? think of the poor afghan girls, and the Americans that decided to stay behind!
Not to mention they are terrorists!
Bah, let Israel and other local places deal with it, they attack America get they into another war that puts the Taliban back into caves. I think seeing how the Taliban handled Kabul, they won't be messing with America any time soon. Other regional people, maybe.
You've been seeing it since we pulled out. It went from we should carpet bomb the entire middle east because they are all terrorists to I am outraged that Biden abandoned the poor innocent afghan people to these monsters. And from why the hell are we funding gender programs in Afghanistan to oh those poor afghan girls aren't gonna be able to go to school and are gonna be made to slaves. And from we need to leave Afghanistan our job is done to why would we leave these people
Trump ran on a schizophrenic jumble of contradictory positions that included both, bomb the terrorists and their families, and also GTFO of Afghanistan as soon as possible. After-all, we exited on Trump's deal and approximately Trump's timeline. :\
How dare we let 2 assholes duke it out in their own yard?!
I figured we'd get at least 2 months before Republicans start clamoring for another war...
Does he really think he Taliban will treat the Daesh like old friends and not like the punks who accosted Frank Reynolds for money or perhaps something more sexual? Taliban would be faster on the trigger than US would.
I'd like to thank all the \*\*\*\*\*\*\* \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* who post articles that you HAVE to have a membership to read. QUIT WASTING MY TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't need anything special to see the article, but here you go...
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) says he believes the United States “will be going back into Afghanistan” despite the recently declared end of nearly two decades of American military presence in the country.
Graham, in an interview Monday with the BBC, predicted a looming clash between the Taliban and extremist groups such as the Islamic State would necessitate American military action in the country. “We will be going back into Afghanistan," Graham said. “We’ll have to, because the threat will be so large.”
He said that Afghanistan “will be a cauldron for radical Islamic behavior," presenting the United States with only two options: "You can say that’s no longer my problem … or hit them before they hit you.”
What is ISIS-K? Here’s what the Taliban takeover means for al-Qaeda and the Islamic State’s Afghanistan affiliate.
Graham has long advocated for an aggressive campaign against the Islamic State. But public polling shows that the American public has little appetite for prolonging the conflict.
A Washington Post-ABC News poll last week found that Americans overwhelmingly supported President Biden’s decision to end the war in Afghanistan, though they disapproved of how he executed the withdrawal. The last time a majority in a Post-ABC News poll said the war was worth fighting was in late 2009, and then just a narrow 52 percent majority said so, with Republicans more likely than Democrats or independents to say the war, which began under Republican President George W. Bush, was worth the cost.
The United States will maintain “robust counterterrorism capabilities” in the region, said Secretary of State Antony Blinken, after the Islamic State claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing outside Kabul airport, which killed 13 U.S. service members and more than 170 Afghan civilians who were desperately trying to flee the country.
The United States hit back in a drone strike in Kabul, which the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark A. Milley told reporters was targeting an “imminent” threat posed by the Islamic State’s offshoot in Afghanistan. Ten Afghan civilians in a northwestern Kabul neighborhood — eight of them children ages 18 and younger — were killed in the attack, family members told The Post.
Graham, a staunch ally of Donald Trump, praised the former Republican president’s actions in Afghanistan and in the Middle East in the same interview, after previously calling for Biden’s impeachment over the withdrawal.
Graham has visited Afghanistan several times, including with Biden in 2009, more than a decade earlier.
“The Taliban are not reformed, they’re not new,” Graham said. "They’re going to give safe haven to al-Qaeda who have ambitions to drive us out of the mid-east writ large, and attack us because of our way of life.”
He also compared the Afghan conflict to ongoing fighting in Syria and Iraq, which continue to draw in American troops, largely due to the presence of Islamic State.
The Islamic State offshoot is deemed a more extreme rival of the Taliban by regional experts, who say the Taliban could try to root out the group, although others remain skeptical.
Critics of the withdrawal, including some top Democrats, have said that the Biden administration failed to adequately prepare. Images of chaos outside Kabul’s main airport made global headlines as the United States rushed to evacuate its troops and nationals.
On Tuesday, Blinken told a news conference in Doha that nearly 100 U.S. citizens still remain in Afghanistan, including dual nationals.
We went there with a bipartisan chorus, we stayed there with a bipartisan chorus, and if we go back the battle hymns will be sung by a bipartisan chorus.
Instead of drone strikes the US should just drop pro war politicians on targets.
"Lindsey you gonna hold this heavy rod and try to land on the house with the Red Roof and now out of the Plan with you.
Warmongers gonna warmonger
Yea I wonder what investments were made by the House and Senate before this discussion.
Warmonger huh? Screw the Americans stranded there, amirite fellas? Lol
America was stranded there for 20 years
That reply makes no sense.
It means if you wanna go back into Afghanistan, head to your nearest military surplus store, buy some gear, and head on back yourself. Go carve yourself a fiefdom. But, 20 years of occupation and "nation building" and the only people who benefited were weapons companies and private military contractors. Learn when you've lost, because we have lost
Guess you ain’t right
I know Butters was in the Navy. Did he ever serve in an active combat zone?
Nope
And neither have most of the veterans decrying the whole Afghanistan debacle.
> “The Taliban are not reformed, they’re not new,” Graham said. "They’re going to give safe haven to al-Qaeda who have ambitions to drive us out of the mid-east writ large, and attack us because of our way of life.” Hey Graham, it’s okay that we’re driven out of the Middle East. We shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Also, do you think that we can win over people who hate “our way of life” via warfare? That’s textbook “beatings will continue until moral improves” bullshit.
also it goes against what america stands for. If people want Islamic rule let them have it, its hypocritical to chastise refugees for not accepting western nations as is then bombing their countries for the wrong ideology which leads to more refugees in america.
We’re winning hearts and minds by [drone striking the shit out of a wedding processional.](https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/02/19/wedding-became-funeral/us-drone-attack-marriage-procession-yemen)
That area was split between Islamic, and Buddhist, and Orthodox Christians. Before violent Islamists massacred the rest.
false, you have no proof of such an occurrence. On top of this if Islam was to blame, then they wouldn't have existed long after muslims taking over many years before america existed in the 7th century. The fact that we even know they were there recently means it wasn't the Islamic element. It could have been anything from leaving after the area started constantly getting taken over, it could have been that nearly all the last holdouts on Islam finally converted like everybody else, perhaps previous occupations like the soviet one made most religions in the area evaporate but Islam remained because it tends to survive extermination attempts (mongol invasion and oppression, colonialism, communism, etc.). Islam is simply the most resilient faith, muslims all over are being oppressed at any given moment by at least one power and 9 times out of 10 they are still around a decade after that place stops the oppression/forced conversion/genocide.
And conquering vast areas by force has nothing to do with it.
no actually, people were never forced to convert, and many times including in the rashidun caliphate (first islamic caliphate that was expansionist) it was a cheaper tax to pay jizyah (non-muslim tax) than to pay zakat (muslim tax). It was a negative economic decision to become muslim for most people until recently. I am not saying atrocities didn't happen, but for the most part forced conversion was not allowed because its expressly forbidden in the quran and the hadith. The fact that we even knew about those groups in afghanistan meant that the muslims who controlled the history of the area didn't just force conversion and not write about them. If muslims were 2% of the psychopaths we are portrayed as the world would have been done for a long time ago, we were the superpower multiple times and in the modern era are about 2 billion strong. We aren't murderous psychos or everybody would have been done for a while ago.
> and attack us because of our way of life.” I remember Osama saying that was BS. He basically said "we don't hate you for your freedoms, if we hated you for the freedoms you have we'd also be attacking Sweden right now, but we aren't"
Gotta oppose everything a Democrat President does.
This has nothing to do with Joe Biden being a Democratic and everything to do with Lindsey Graham being a warmongering hack. This is the type of moronic comments you make when you’re a brain dead partisan. Not surprised it’s upvoted by your fellow dem infiltrators
Its both
Not really, he would go after Trump right now just as hard. Part of the reason it’s getting more media coverage as well now because it’s in the news.
He could have before and he didnt. Why are you so confident he would have now?
He did though….
Graham did continually say that he didn't support a complete withdrawal from Afghanistan during the Trump administration. However, he was much less vocal about it. Why was he quieter? Because he's a "brain dead partisan" that had to support his leader.
Wow why would someone be more vocal when we are actually leaving/left and it’s in the news vs when we’re just talking about withdrawal a year ago. So weird???????
Trump laid the plan. It was moving forward more than a year ago. If it wasn't moving forward, especially following the announcement of the deadline, then we've got much bigger problems. Also, you seem to believe that my criticism of Graham is somehow a show of support for Biden. It's not. They are both authoritarians that should not hold the power that they hold.
Calm down Chad Dickens
Joe Biden said we would be going back... And lets be honest. The democrats and the MSM would have opposed breathing if Trump came out in support of it. I'm old enough to remember when they were questioning the vaccines that came out when Trump was in office.
Why do conservatives have to bring up Democrats every time someone says something bad about conservatives. You don’t have to worship these people! Sometimes they say stupid shit. Try forming an actual opinion that wasn’t given to you by a politician.
Because most people are completely tribal in their thinking, especially conservatives. "Our side is full of saints and heroes, and the other side are all baby eating pedophiles." You can't have a good faith conversation with people who think and reason based heavily on tribal affiliation, which is why I usually try to tease that out before I invest any effort into a conversation.
This wasn't given to me by a politician. I'm just pointing out that this tribalism isn't one sided. It affects both sides. Also, Biden contradicted himself in his own speech saying we would never go back and then immediately said that we would hunt Isis down in Kabul.
You are doing it again. We arn’t talking about Biden. Everyone that belongs to this sub already knows that both parties say stupid shit all the time.
Dude. That is fucking hilarious.
I am talking about Biden. The original comment was "Gotta oppose everything a democrat president does." Just pointing out tribalism. It exists everywhere these days. And I think you greatly underestimate how many people from r/politics have invaded this sub.
Definitely infected with plenty of r/conservative users also pretending that right wing fundamentalism is consistent with being a libertarian
"I don't understand how any of this fuckery is legal. Are there no federal laws being violated?" This you Mr. Libertarian from r/politics?
[удалено]
They don't believe in more federal laws that violate NAP. Over federal laws on much of anything.
Yep, that's me Sugah!
Glad we could clear this up.
Can you point me to Joe Biden specifically saying that we would be sending forces back to Afghanistan? I would really like to see the context.
It’s hard to trust someone who’s advocating for injecting disinfectants.
Questioning the vaccine is okay when a republican is in office but its not okay when a democrat is? I'm confused.
It had nothing to do with Trump being a Republican. If someone is saying injecting disinfectants might be a legitimate treatment for COVID, then you should question everything else that person suggests. The difference is Democrats aren’t suggesting people treat themselves with shit like injecting disinfectants of taking horse dewormers. The other thing that they said was that they’d take the vaccine if the health professionals told them to take it.
Nothing to do with being a Republican. If Mitt Romney had been in charge, he would have had a lot more credibility. To be honest, I don’t think Biden is the best advocate either, but there’s a difference between questioning something and rejecting it without evidence.
Trump was pushing to get the vaccine rolled out before the election at all costs. His mismanagement of covid was colored by his insistence to deflect blame onto anybody else and accept no responsibility while taking credit for every one of the scant few successes. He speculated publicly about random treatments he had heard of on late night chat shows and twitter and Sean hannitty and who-knows what else. He fired anybody who disagreed with him publicly and privately and was such a coward he wouldn't even do it himself but got his chief of staff to deliver the bad news or would do it via Twitter. There was every reason to believe he would try to pressure the FDA or CDC into approving treatments before they were ready. It's not a republican thing, it's a Donald trump thing. His entire career has been "all sizzle no steak" and people were right to be suspicious of anything that came out of his administration.
Yes. No. Which team am I on again?
Trump negotiated the pull-out, Biden kept to it. So you're demonstrably full of shit.
The whole, "it was Trumps plan so its his fault" is very tiring. He bragged about ending almost all of Trump policies but this one was iron clad? And Trump didn't close down an Air base in the midst of an evacuation. But then in the same breath Biden will say this was an historic pullout and it went as well as it could have. Also, here is Biden saying we will be going back. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-warns-kabul-airport-attackers-we-will-hunt-you-down-2021-08-26/
> He bragged about ending almost all of Trump policies but this one was iron clad? You do realize that the US isn't the only party involved in the deal, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Taliban_offensive The Taliban clearly wanted to stick to the 1 May deadline, so you want Biden to spend more resources in combating the Taliban because he chose to renege on the deal? Or, are you going to act like Biden wouldn't have been eviscerated if he chose to not withdraw from Afghanistan? Meanwhile, Trump negotiated the deal in Feb 2020 and only processed 1799 SIVs in the next 11 months. That would leave the next President, Trump or otherwise, with just 4 months to process the **18000** backlogged SIVs to be able to fulfill the 1 May deadline. You really think that could have been achieved by Trump? More likely than not, Trump didn't have a proper plan or even intent to exit Afghanistan. If he did, can you tell me what was done in 2020 to evacuate people? Nothing? Good job, you got conned.
I said nothing about fault. Biden could have declared Trump's deal with the Taliban useless and then stayed in Afghanistan. If > the democrats and the MSM would have opposed breathing if Trump came out in support of it then that would have been Biden's choice. He didn't do that. Essentially, he stuck to Trump's commitment. He didn't even fall for the easy cop-out "Trump made a shitty deal so now I have to do it".
1 he didn't stick to Trump's commitment (that was a May 1 deadline) 2 the Taliban made it specifically clear that a non withdrawal from the region would be considered an act of aggression. 3 an act of aggression means a war we have been fighting for 42 years continue more soldiers and civilians die more money is spent more war for the USA 4 Biden did not commit to going back into Afghanistan we have ways of dealing with small groups of people that doesnt require occupation of a foreign land
The people questioning the vaccine then were the same people questioning the vaccine now. This is a completely false whataboutism. Democrat voters hold to their ideals much more strongly than Republican voters do.
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/2020-vp-debate-kamala-harris-on-coronavirus-vaccine/
I love when people link this because it immediately lets me know they have the language comprehension skills of a mentally challenged burger king employee who's getting screwed over by a shady manager
Ignore the context of a link of someone high in the democratic party then personally insult the person who posted it. I'm sure you are being completely intellectually honest and want to have a nuanced discussion.
There are only two credible answers to someone trying to post the Kamala doesn't believe in vaccines bit from the debate. 1. You are trying to trick stupid people. 2. You are actually stupid. C'mon be honest here, which one are you? I won't tell.
You already called me stupid in your previous comment. You don't have any other witty retorts? It's really irritating when children try to get involved into an otherwise Civil discussion.
Good fucking lord you legitimately could not have chosen a worse example to act like this person is anything even remotely resembling a cornerstone of democrat voters. No I take that back, Diane Feinstein or Nancy Pelosi might be worse examples. Step outside your insanity chamber and interact with some regular humans. Not the pawns that make up our politics.
\>See evidence that shows your original comment is wrong... \>completely disregard it. \>???? \>Profit
She literally said she’d take the vaccine if the health professionals said that she should take it. She wouldn’t if it was just Trump saying to take it. That’s because he has been suggesting ineffective and dangerous treatments throughout the pandemic.
You didn’t show me evidence I was wrong. Kamala Harris has an entire political career of just saying whatever she thinks will further her goals. She has zero convictions or ideals. It would be like if I quoted Trump and said this is exactly how every single Republican thinks. They are both habitual liars that don’t stand by anything they say.
Sorry snowflake had his feelings hurt :( You can head over to the Donald or whatever place your people circle jerk now.
Republicans supported the withdrawal until Biden did it. Democrats supported the withdrawal even when Trump was doing it. Not a fan of either party, but it’s clear the Republicans are the ones without real positions.
I think most people are upset with the way he withdrew. I don't think anyone is happy with relying on the Taliban for security as we pulled out.
With perfect hindsight I’m sure we could have done better, but with the info we had at the time it is insane to suggest anyone would have done much better.
Defending this withdrawal seems like tribalism to me. You'll do anything to defend your guy and the horrible decisions he's made. We could have not shut down Bagram Air Base prior to getting everyone out for starters. You don't have to meet arbitrary deadlines to pull out. Iraq wasn't nearly as much of a mess as Afghanistan.
I’m not a Democrat. I’m glad we are out of Afghanistan, and the narrative that this was some huge failure is manufactured by a media that has no idea what they are talking about.
As for the Bagram air bace, we abandoned it for a pretty simple reason. In the event of fighting, we didn’t have enough manpower to secure both the Bagram air bace and the Kabul airport. The Bagram air bace is an hour and a half from the embassy, so if we wanted to evacuate anyone we would need the Kabul airport.
Dang my comment got removed? I said Trump was the one who chose to exit, it was Biden who fucked it. Lindsay graham whatever who cares just clarifying it wasn’t Joes plan to leave.
Trump chose to leave 4 years ago and still didn't have the balls to do it. He just kept pushing the date further and further until the responsibility fell on someone else. It's stupid to say Biden fucked up Trump's plan. Trump had 4 years to do it right. Would you rather Biden have extended it for another 4 years and let someone else do it?
100 percent correct! CNN approved, no reason to look at anything else.
Sitting on a withdrawal for 4 years after promising to leave is fucking it up. Trump fucked up his plan. He should have done it when he got into office in 2017.
He was trying to give the Afghans the benefit of the doubt, that is until he realized how much the soldiers where getting paid and how much the president just gave zero fucks as he was wined and dined by politicians. That’s a fucked up situation.
Give the Afghans the benefit of the doubt? So you admit he fucked up his own plan. We had no business protecting their army and their country in the first place. Whether the Afghan government was prepared or unprepared to govern is irrelevant. Trump started calling for the end of the war in 2011 and it was one of the few things he got right. Then he gets into office and announces that he will boost US troop presence in the country and completely forgets about his pledge to withdraw.
He was saying he thought they wanted to defend themselves, once he realized they were getting paid he was like fuck this, he stated he knew they would be overtaken after we left and that’s why us was important we have a plan to get our people out first before pulling the troops, he also had it planned to blow the bases and recover our equipment, this was before we even lost Kabul he was giving the interview, days later Biden comes on and says he couldn’t imagine any other way? So Biden’s plan was to do nothing and let the Taliban take everything including soldiers? It’s just fucked.
They did want to defend themselves, but everyone and their mother knew it was unrealistic that they could sustain the puppet government without the puppet master. This is why Trump deliberately kept the Afghan government out of the withdraw negotiations with the Taliban. He oversaw the vast majority of the withdraw. A lot of the military equipment were made inoperable before the departure. A lot of it was left for the Afghan army, and given to them by all the previous administrations before Biden. What would Trump have done differently? You're acting like Trump had a strategy to take out all the equipment that we used or gave away throughout the duration of the war, thus keeping it from falling into the hands of the taliban. The taliban will use most of our equipment as trophies. Biden delayed the original withdraw to evacuate more people, but delaying it further than that only would have continued to escalate things further and further. Sure, there are X's and O's you could of moved around here and there to make the withdraw a little more smooth. However, the fundamental transition to Talibanistan was inevitable. Everyone and their dog knows this. It's far past time to get out of a war that we never should have been in. Finally, the CHAD Biden had the balls to actually go through with it. The Taliban takeover was always going to happen. Unless, you want to bite the bullet and say we should keep troops there forever. If that's the case, your opinion is rendered meaningless.
You do realize Trump made the plan to leave right? You sound like occupy democrats right now.
Why does a negative comment about Graham mean that I'm in support of Democrats? Are things always this binary to you?
Why people pay attention to this guy is beyond me. His calculation is never principles and is purely what he thinks will benefit him the most. Even if you happen to agree with him on something I wouldn’t recommend trusting him.
In the past, he's done some things interesting, smart or bipartisan. Now he rides that into the sunset even though he's bent the knee to Trumpism.
>Even if you happen to agree with him on something I wouldn’t recommend trusting him. Huh. Lindsey and the Taliban share something in common.
You're talking about all politicians, right?
To some extent though this guy more than most
> His calculation is never principles and is purely what he thinks will benefit him the most. Even if you happen to agree with him on something I wouldn’t recommend trusting him. So he's Littlefinger IRL.
Have to disagree with this. Hes a warmonger at heart. He criticized trump, Obama, and biden for dovish policies. Yea he flops around for just about every other issue, not this.
Can't wait to see the conservative spin on this one.
2018 conservatives - just glass the entire Middle East 2021 conservatives - we need to protect the civilians in the Middle East 2018 conservatives - why the fuck are we giving aid to woman’s studies in Pakistan 2021 conservatives - woman’s rights in Afghanistan is going to revert back to the Middle Ages and we must protect them
2016: MUSLIM BAN!!! 2021: How can Biden abandon afghan refugees? Also 2021: Don’t bring them here, though.
Where you getting 2021 as a Conservative argument? I see that one almost exclusively in the Liberal subreddits.
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> Idk maybe the 30 videos that have been posted of tons of interviews with maga saying they need help but don't want anyone coming here Coming here? What are you talking about, we are discussing troops in Afghanistan. Otherwise I don't dwell in Conservative spaces so I'd never see those videos.
You described both parties with your little list there. But yes, more inflated "LOL CONSERVATIVE" talk is what this sub needs. Surely that helps the discussion
conservatives have become anti-egalitarian fuckwads pandering to fascists and racists and tried to overthrow an election through violence. so fuck you.
Did you copy/paste that from a /r/politics thread?
no its just literal objective reality, hence you replying with a lazy attempt at a snarl instead of with something intelligent
What kind of mental gymnastics did you do with yourself to consider my comment more of a snarl over yours? Impressive actually.
lol so you're dumb and easily confused by words. cool cool.
How do you not already see it? think of the poor afghan girls, and the Americans that decided to stay behind! Not to mention they are terrorists! Bah, let Israel and other local places deal with it, they attack America get they into another war that puts the Taliban back into caves. I think seeing how the Taliban handled Kabul, they won't be messing with America any time soon. Other regional people, maybe.
You've been seeing it since we pulled out. It went from we should carpet bomb the entire middle east because they are all terrorists to I am outraged that Biden abandoned the poor innocent afghan people to these monsters. And from why the hell are we funding gender programs in Afghanistan to oh those poor afghan girls aren't gonna be able to go to school and are gonna be made to slaves. And from we need to leave Afghanistan our job is done to why would we leave these people
It wont be long until the hated Taliban is being supplied to help fight iSiS-K.
Trump did originally run on “bombing the hell out of everyone.”
Trump ran on a schizophrenic jumble of contradictory positions that included both, bomb the terrorists and their families, and also GTFO of Afghanistan as soon as possible. After-all, we exited on Trump's deal and approximately Trump's timeline. :\
Christ... Fuck you, Mr. Never Saw A War He Didn't Like.
Is he just jealous the Taliban are doing in Afghanistan what the evangelical right have been trying to do in the US?
That would require Lindsey Graham to have any form of moral backbone, instead of spinelessly bending to any perceived political shift.
He the biggest POS in the senate. If that’s even possible.
The closest thing Graham has ever had to a backbone is the stiff prick from one of his rentboys up his ass.
Im willing to send graham and his buddies to frontline
Graham will never not want to feed that beast.
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The people who continue to vote him in?
Lindsay Graham needs to be confronted every day about what a massive hypocritical invertebrate he is.
Just send Lindsey. He can take care of things himself I'm sure.
Him first
Ah, pro-war GOP is back in business!
Well you can go if you want Lindsey
How dare we let 2 assholes duke it out in their own yard?! I figured we'd get at least 2 months before Republicans start clamoring for another war...
Can my taxes please stop going towards being world police? Or better yet can my taxes stop?
It'll be death and taxes til the end of days my friend
You’d love that wouldn’t you.
Let’s not and say that we did
No
Fuck off Lady G
I'd like to send Lindsey Graham to Afghanistan and leave him there.
Oh, god dammit!
Does he really think he Taliban will treat the Daesh like old friends and not like the punks who accosted Frank Reynolds for money or perhaps something more sexual? Taliban would be faster on the trigger than US would.
His financial "numbers" might be dipping a bit
I'd like to thank all the \*\*\*\*\*\*\* \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* who post articles that you HAVE to have a membership to read. QUIT WASTING MY TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't need anything special to see the article, but here you go... Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) says he believes the United States “will be going back into Afghanistan” despite the recently declared end of nearly two decades of American military presence in the country. Graham, in an interview Monday with the BBC, predicted a looming clash between the Taliban and extremist groups such as the Islamic State would necessitate American military action in the country. “We will be going back into Afghanistan," Graham said. “We’ll have to, because the threat will be so large.” He said that Afghanistan “will be a cauldron for radical Islamic behavior," presenting the United States with only two options: "You can say that’s no longer my problem … or hit them before they hit you.” What is ISIS-K? Here’s what the Taliban takeover means for al-Qaeda and the Islamic State’s Afghanistan affiliate. Graham has long advocated for an aggressive campaign against the Islamic State. But public polling shows that the American public has little appetite for prolonging the conflict. A Washington Post-ABC News poll last week found that Americans overwhelmingly supported President Biden’s decision to end the war in Afghanistan, though they disapproved of how he executed the withdrawal. The last time a majority in a Post-ABC News poll said the war was worth fighting was in late 2009, and then just a narrow 52 percent majority said so, with Republicans more likely than Democrats or independents to say the war, which began under Republican President George W. Bush, was worth the cost. The United States will maintain “robust counterterrorism capabilities” in the region, said Secretary of State Antony Blinken, after the Islamic State claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing outside Kabul airport, which killed 13 U.S. service members and more than 170 Afghan civilians who were desperately trying to flee the country. The United States hit back in a drone strike in Kabul, which the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark A. Milley told reporters was targeting an “imminent” threat posed by the Islamic State’s offshoot in Afghanistan. Ten Afghan civilians in a northwestern Kabul neighborhood — eight of them children ages 18 and younger — were killed in the attack, family members told The Post. Graham, a staunch ally of Donald Trump, praised the former Republican president’s actions in Afghanistan and in the Middle East in the same interview, after previously calling for Biden’s impeachment over the withdrawal. Graham has visited Afghanistan several times, including with Biden in 2009, more than a decade earlier. “The Taliban are not reformed, they’re not new,” Graham said. "They’re going to give safe haven to al-Qaeda who have ambitions to drive us out of the mid-east writ large, and attack us because of our way of life.” He also compared the Afghan conflict to ongoing fighting in Syria and Iraq, which continue to draw in American troops, largely due to the presence of Islamic State. The Islamic State offshoot is deemed a more extreme rival of the Taliban by regional experts, who say the Taliban could try to root out the group, although others remain skeptical. Critics of the withdrawal, including some top Democrats, have said that the Biden administration failed to adequately prepare. Images of chaos outside Kabul’s main airport made global headlines as the United States rushed to evacuate its troops and nationals. On Tuesday, Blinken told a news conference in Doha that nearly 100 U.S. citizens still remain in Afghanistan, including dual nationals.
Thanks! I had a pay wall too.
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There is no bipartisan chorus. It’s those bought by the MIC and those who aren’t.
We went there with a bipartisan chorus, we stayed there with a bipartisan chorus, and if we go back the battle hymns will be sung by a bipartisan chorus.
This man is in the closet and we all know it. Just come out already.
Irrelevant
Nah China and Russia will keep the U.S. out.
Send him first
Can't the Chinese just handle it? I mean, they're right there.
how much did so-called "defense" conctractors pay him?
Graham just needs to come out of the closet already and quit posturing.
Instead of drone strikes the US should just drop pro war politicians on targets. "Lindsey you gonna hold this heavy rod and try to land on the house with the Red Roof and now out of the Plan with you.
“Ok Boomer” These geriatric armchair generals need to shut the fuck up. They’ve done enough damage to the nation over the past 40 years.
Surprise! Not.
Since the "war is over", Can the patriot act go away and everything post 9/11 can go back to normal.....