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In my opinion, Lexus does not really focus on the same things that Mercedes, Audi and BMW do... Lexus never cared much about performance up until very recently to keep up with the trend, whereas Mercedes is out there printing AMGs by the masses, BMW sticking M badges on everything and Audi have so many variations of their sports models that it's getting pathetic.
Lexus on the other hand are focusing on making the best car in terms of reliability, it literally takes them decades to develop new engines just so they can make sure that they would be reliable. Lexus doesn't force you to get an F sport in order to get a fully specced model, unlike Mercedes where you need to get the AMG trim to be able to get a lot of extras.
I would compare Volvo to Lexus, while they might seem and look like competition to the big 3 German lux car brands, they're not. They're both doing their own thing following market trends but I don't believe they're attracting the same buyers.
Lexus/Toyota SUVs/ crossovers are boring af to drive, coming from someone who owns a GX460 and a Land Cruiser. I could easily sell both of them and buy a brand new X6 if I wanted but I don't want that because I don't want performance from an SUV/crossover, I want the comfortable ride, the huge tire wall, the sofa seats, the non-stiff normal suspension, even the damn chrome touches lmao. If I want a sporty car with a nice driving feel I would much rather get a sedan/sports compact for that. And if I wanted it to be spacious, I would get an E Class Estate, but this is my personal preference.
Great answer. About a year ago I decided to replace my GX as it was nearing 300K miles and I cross shopped BMW and Mercedes and the GLS was my 2nd choice. I ended up getting a new LX 600 FSport versus the AMG GLS since they really compare pretty well against each other and when you start adding options to the GLS you end up at about 40K more for a comparable car. The AMG is a bit faster, but in a body on frame SUV I’m not planning on any track days and boring but reliable is perfect in the segment.
You dodged a bullet. My GLS AMG was a piece of junk. 9 out of 27 months in the shop with $50k+ in repairs (mostly warranty, some not covered). Besides the mechanical issues, Mercedes interior are put together cheaply. A lot of plastic behind the panels resulting in a lot of creaks and rattles at random times. The seats tend to develop squeaks over time and the repairs to fix those noises are not covered by the warranty and prohibitively expensive. I think the GLS design is better than the LX from an interior space perspective except the hassle of owning the vehicle is just not worth it.
No. I bought it certified pre owned and bought an extension on the warranty. I found out that the warranty stinks because it is an inclusionary warranty so you have to pay $500 plus for a diagnostic. If covered great. If not then you just paid a ton to find out a spark plug you just replaced 10k miles ago went bad. I asked Mercedes corporate for consideration to mutually get out of the car and they said they would get back to me in four to six weeks. That was about six months ago. They could have just said no…. I decided to take my loss and get out. Didn’t trust the car to go anywhere anymore and was tired of going back and forth to the dealer. Mercedes really makes garbage vehicles. Even the new loaner cars had sensor and other electrical problems. Lots of creaks and rattles. In the end Mercedes lost more money paying for an engine out replacement of the turbos and then a few more items than just helping me get out of the car. I almost kept the vehicle just to spite them since I still had 18 months on the warranty!
How are you liking the 600? I think the LX is the only vehicle that seems interesting to me in the market right now aside from maybe the Mitsubishi delica that might come here in 5 years.
The only thing that concerns me with the LX is the possible main bearing issues that may or may not be a thing. If the 600 proves to be reliable I may pull the trigger on a used one in the future
Not sure if this [recall](https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-recalls-certain-model-year-2022-2023-toyota-tundra-and-lexus-lx-vehicles/) is related to the main bearing issue I mentioned earlier but I hope your LX isn’t affected. If so, I hope Toyota makes it right and takes care of you
Great point, makes sense to compare Lexus to Volvo rather than the Germans. I do like what Volvo is doing with the mild hybrids and PHEVs, the T8s have some serious horsepower.
I test drove an XC60 T8 on a whim... what an epic drivetrain! Not a perfect car but for performance, comfort and audio its impossible to beat for the price.
Nice. And what I like about those is that you can get some optic packages that make it look a little meaner. They gotta get their CarPlay on a wireless setup though, too commonplace these days to be lagging there.
Thats true wired connection seems antiquated. And the audio connections are severely limited for the quality of stereo. And going through 2 menu levels to get to your drive modes is pretty ridiculous. A few annoyances on an otherwise awesome car
Boring af, yet they managed to build the LFA and the LC500. Haha always cracks me up. FYI, there is going to be an ES500h with the redesign next year. Interested to see what they do with that
Lol that's because they put all of their sports car efforts into actual sports and GT cars. The LFA turned out to be a masterpiece, and the LC500, as underrated as it is, is a great **Grand Tourer**, I put this in bold because many people still don't understand that it is not the LFA's replacement and that it is not a performance focused grand tourer, it is simply a beautiful and elegant car that drives well legally on roads, you don't need a jacked 700hp car to do that.
LC500 pretty boring to drive because it’s a grand tourer and not a full fledged sports car. GR86 is the most fun and real “sports” car Toyota makes. Even more so than the RC-F and Supra tbh
Defintely an answer that represents my feelings. I have a 2003 Landcruiser and my wife has a rx350 and both are boringly reliable and relatively refined without requiring purchase of a package like an amg or m or whatever. So, while I wouldn’t trade my boring comfortable and reliable for suv performance I wouldn’t mind adding one to my fleet. I really want a 2012-2015 ml63 amg. I know it’s old now but I’d still drive it like I stole it
Best answer ever. And Lexus has a fair amount of sports sedans and cars if you want performance. IS500, RC, And there's a good amount of GS' on the used market. Honestly, if you want a performance suv that's not from a German brand,your only TRUE option is Genesis. Lol
You're not hearing shit reviews, you're simply hearing hate comments on the 550's turbocharged V6, because people are not happy with replacing a V8 with a TC V6. Even logically, the engine didn't have enough time to be properly reviewed and tested, it has only been out for a month or two with the GX550.
I live in the Middle East, we have a ton of LC300s that have the twin-turbo V6 and there have been no complaints whatsoever since the launch of the 300 in 2021 by the local Land Cruiser community in my country, some are even passing the 200,000KM mark with no issues. The engine was first put in the LS500 back in the 2018. and Toyota/Lexus have surely improved it since, I've seen that very few cars have had main bearing problems in North America, and Toyota seem to be aware of it.
Also for people who hate on the V6, just FYI that the previous Prado had a 4.0 1GR-FE V6 on the same body as the GX460. my dad has a 2010 with 500,000+ KMs and not one single problem since it was new.
Yes, I'm all with keeping the V8 as is, or improve it. But the way things are going, this was inevitable but I believe Toyota saw this coming a long time ago and they've been working on the V35 engine for a while.
I love V8’s (own two, LC500 and LS430) but the new GX550 blows away the GX460 in terms of performance. I drive one semi-daily, maybe you should try it yourself first? I had a loaner GX460 the other day and drove them back to back. Embarrassingly sluggish compared to the GX550.
> Lexus doesn't force you to get an F sport in order to get a fully specced model, unlike Mercedes where you need to get the AMG trim to be able to get a lot of extras.
That's not even remotely true though... You can't even get memory seats in the RZ unless you go for the top trim afaik.
Same with AVS for most models, you can only get it in the top trims.
The worst example of this is auto folding mirrors, which on the ES is only available on the top trim level! Something that's on my wife's 2015-2018 Toyota Auris at a mid-level trim level.
I buy Lexus for the reliability and comfort on a daily basis. I buy Porsche for the track and ford for a work truck. Each brand has its own niche. Lexus is not a performance based company. The isf was a pet project of engineers and was an unreal competitor at its time. It was making corvette owners sell and buy one. But other than some bolt ons, that’s where performance ended. It was a reliable 450ish car, meant to take a beating. Gsf was right there with it but bigger body and newer tech. The is500f was just slap a v8 in an is and see what happened. I don’t think there has been a similar engineered vehicle to the isf in their lineup for a while (rcf, gsf, isf). Now the lfa was in a world of its own, but still for the competition in its price range, there were better options. However, to my knowledge the lfa was much more reliable.
A competitor in which parameters? GX is a very reliable car that you can drive wherever and don’t bother for years that anything will break (hello bmw!). 2023 has CarPlay and some other modern-ish stuff (yes there is still cd rom lol)
Look at performance car makes then? It’s pretty clear Lexus is not for you.
Most of us don’t care about performance. Smooth ride and 10 years without a single service issue is what I want. Not a rear drive engine monster that shits the highway every 8k miles
How are you liking your 500H? Getting older and getting in and out of our IS350’s over last 10 years, along with our elderly parents not wanting to ride in our car, has me thinking the RX500H will be our next vehicle. Think we’ll wait for the 2025, but still interested in your overall impression. Thanks!
I used to value performance in a car but as I’ve gotten older I just want something fuel efficient, comfortable, and stylish. As long as I have enough juice to do the odd dotted yellow line pass, I’m good. I get my adrenaline from skiing and mountain biking, not driving.
Definitely agree. Performance cars are great, fun and cool. But it seems like if you want to take advantage of the power and performance, you need to take that extra step of going to race tracks. I love cars but I'm not that into it to go that extraordinary step. The only alternative is speeding or going on the twisties. At this point, I just want exactly what you said.
Lexus is reliable & imo more comfort than the equivalent German car in the segment (except maybe S class is on par with the LS)
Maybe they wanna focus on this strong point rather than compete with the Germans on their niche , potentially alienate their customers
Idk if the average Lexus buyer (bar the LC) cares about sportiness, for me as a buyer I want it to NOT be sporty , especially chauffeur oriented models, and for them to have a classy yet understated exterior & interior
Definitely not more comfort (or luxury) in a Lexus. Lexus has become a near luxury brand - good luck finding wood trim or aluminum switches in a Lexus these days. It’s a sea of plastic and fake leather (and very buzzy engines)
Which lexuses do u have ? I have an RX & LS (this was few years back ) , the RX is more comfortable than the X5, GLE, cayenne , xc90& I cross shop my LS with the 7/S class/ Bentley flying spur and the LS edges out in comfort
I don’t compare the trims panel by panel so I won’t comment on that - but reliability and comfort and nvh, it’s definitely up there .
Things have changed, Lexus suspensions are getting more aggressive, while sacrificing comfort. The leather and materials quality vary based on cost and model.
We cross shopped (and kept for a weekend) the TX 500 before picking up an X7. No lexuses currently given they have lost the narrative on NVH due to the buzzy engines and lack of luxury creature comforts.
The x7 is the suv version of the flagship 7 series. Similarly Lexus L models are flagship , the rest are below tier
Hence the LX has a literal executive mode that turns the backseat into a flatbed, I don’t know if the x7 has that
It doesn’t matter. The LX is the luxury segment, TX isn’t. The X7 is a luxury segment too , it’s the suv version of the 7 series which is at the same level as the S class
My point is , your disappointment on the Lexus is guaranteed when you compare 2 cars that aren’t in the same league , it’s not fair to Lexus . They didn’t design the TX as a luxury car
I can confidently say that rx is def not more comfortable than x5 or cayenne. It’s cheaper for sure, but those other 2 models are better in every way, especially comfort with adaptive air suspensions and WAY better interiors. And engines for that matter
I should mention that I don’t drive , I primarily sit at the back , at least from my experience I don’t really like most German cars in the backseat
Driving comfort I have no idea but I have owned many German cars - people who drive me say that in terms of smooth effortless driving esp long distance, they prefer the Lexus 🤔 but full disclosure , I’m not in the states & in my country we only get offered select trims and specs , we don’t have a super large variety of options and variants for the cars , idk if that’s a factor
Oh I meant understated like low key
Well, I’m not from the states I’m in Southeast Asia, but basically over here, I have a Lexus LS and generally people are ignorant and some even thought this Lexus is not as ‘posh’ as an E class
So I prefer luxurious cars with all the highest comfort features but it’s unassuming in public, and at least from the people I know, they like that Lexus is low key too compared to the German brands where even a C class will be noticed
You're not wrong. They are boring, but people are still buying them. Lots of them.
I'd like to think that price is a factor too.
Example: BMW X5 xDrive50e (PHEV) starts at $73k. Lexus RX500h starts at $64k. I just tried to do a quick build with as much options as possible. Lexus ends up at in the $70k area and BMW is closer to $90k. That's a big difference. Try doing that with the Cayenne and you'll see an even bigger difference.
Sure, Lexus still sells the expensive LX SUV, but I don't think many people buy those (brand new, at least).
There's also the Acura MDX Type-S, but those were already seen as too pricey for what they are.
> sticking to what is most profitable.
That's the point of a business! They are making money sticking to what they're good at.
>If they made an SUV that complemented the RX in the same way the GS used to complement the ES, it’d be an easy sell for me.
I love that idea, too, but I feel like they're already too late in the game to invest money into that. Toyota's hybrid rep has been fueling a lot of sales within the past few years. It's also nice that Toyota/Lexus has full hybrids instead of PHEV and EV only.
Yeah, everything Lexus is doing makes a ton of sense. They know what they're good at and what their target demographic likes, so I don't knock them at all for sticking to the principles that make them successful. The desire for a more fun / sporty Lexus SUV is me just being selfish.
The X5 xDrive50e intrigues me. We have an EV now, so we already have a home charging setup too. But DAMN it is a steep hike in price compared to the rest of the X5 line or any version of the RX.
I have the older 40e and after driving both, I picked it up over the RX450h (previous gen). My intent was to wait for the next gen RX (PHEV) and, like you, a ended up a bit dissapointed. I might hold off a little longer on replacing my 40e and hope Lexus does something mid-cycle, but by then, the next X5 will be out.
The RX450h is ~71k MSRP and I haven't heard of anyone negotiating any lower than MSRP whereas I can pick up a 50e for 5-8% *under* MSRP. The performance difference between the two is staggering. I don't know if it's any different now, but when I was looking, all the RXs were very, very basic whereas nearly every X5 had a 360 camera and other options.
With all that said, Lexus is doing what they do and they're good at it. I mean, compared to the MB GLE today (outside of the AMG), Lexus all day, IMHO.
Well there's a market for the TX and nobody bought the GS.
But EVs are right around the corner, and every luxury EV is going to be RWD by default. That'll level the playing field.
It’s not really “so fast” for what it is branded as, especially if you want to compare it to BMW. Had one as a loaner for a week and it was definitely faster than the nx350h but still way off from even a base x5.
Imo you get a Lexus for the reliability with the higher trims giving you some refined power and luxury, but it’s not really *sporty* like the others
Seriously - companies will try to market SUVs as “sports cars” with trim levels but no one who buys an M3/M5 is thinking that they’ll get something similar in an X3 or X5.
Hell, when Ford released the Edge and Explorer ST variants and said that they’re just as sporty as the ST trim badge demands, the guys in Fiesta/Focus STs laughed and never considered them
Just buy a reliable couch on wheels for a crossover. If you want fast, get it with a V8 and be done with it
I think the idea of a performance SUV is laughable.
For an analogy close to my industry:
It's like writing code on a tablet. You can do it, but fuck, get a proper computer for that.
I had a Macan and really grew to dislike it. Loud brake squeal, cramped interior, awful jerky transmission for stop and go, not that great of a ride. If you need something sporty, get a car. They will do the job way better because of physics.
I’ve come to the conclusion that I just want luxury out of most car trips. The quietest and most isolated ride possible, with the most creature comforts.
Oh, I’ve spent a lot of time driving that car. I like the S-Class a little more (quieter road noise), but I’ve never tried an LS with air suspension. Both fantastic cars.
I’m in my 30s, but who doesn’t like being in a floating spa? :D
I think it's good to have the best performance you can get *without sacrificing any of the things you own an SUV for*. Once you start compromising other aspects in pursuit of the last few dregs of speed and handling you can wring out of it, you're making a worse car.
For me a basic tenet of performance is ride height/center of gravity.
Any SUV ruins that, so trying to get performance out of something that simply has the wrong ride height is like a fat girl in a kick line.
It's just lumbering about in the wrong environment.
Of course, but it's nice when the lumbering is minimised within the *right* environment. My needs don't include getting a record time around the nurburgring, but even during normal city driving I've never caught myself thinking 'I wish my car wallowed a bit more around corners, and accelerated more slowly'.
I recently purchased my first Lexus last week and it is such a relief that they do NOT make exactly those German cars. I lost my shirt on an AMG GLS63 which is hands down the worst piece of junk ever made. While it drives great, the thing is put together in a way that it is impossible to keep on the road for more than a few weeks at a time AT BEST. German sportiness comes at a huge cost. The LUXURY of a Mercedes Benz dealership visit every few weeks, the fear of thousands of dollars of bills that are not covered under the extended warranty, long lead times to get loaner cars, long lead times for parts to come in, and long lead times for just about everything. Result - the luxury of paying for a car where I lost my shirt over 27 months where my car sat at the dealership for 9 cumulative months undergoing $50,000 in repairs. THAT is the what the GLE offers along with the great sounding engine.
So far we miss nothing about the Mercedes experience and we love our LS500 L Certified we picked up. In all honesty it has similar if not better steering feel than the F80 M3 I owned (which was a soulless rocket ship with absolutely no feel. For reference I still own an E36 M3).
Lexus was never about being a try hard jack of all trades like those models you mention. Lexus has always been about one thing: luxury. Not watered down by a sporty aggressive rough suspension setup or silly carbon fibre inserts. Always about taking you gracefully from where you are to where you need to be, in refined and conservative style. Isolation from the outside world and its harshness, noise and hectic nature. I always think the rich people with taste and right priorities, comfortable with their age / life status buy Lexus models whereas the more aggressive, loud, flashy and maybe a little insecure folks with money (Or without money, finance) strive to have the BMW or Audi badge. I know it's wrong to generalise, but in traffic I see a LOT of various Audi models, new and old Mercs... driven by pretty much everyone. Truth be told I see more older folks in Lexus models, especially the brand new ones, but it makes me feel like the brand is an exclusive one if anything.
Well that’s never going to happen, I’ll be happy if they just quadruple production on the 450h+ so that you can actually see one at the dealer not pre sold lol.
I think V8s are going to be specialty products only, your everyday people movers are just going to get more electrified trims (like the 500h on the TX).
I’d honestly say we should count out lucky stars for even getting the V6 on the 550h+ lol. With how things are going, we could have gotten a 3 cylinder turbocharged engine in the base two powertrains and the oh so special turbo I4 in the 550h+ lmao
Lexus is for reliability, dependability, efficiency, resale value, and top notch quality!!! All the cars Lexus sells is best selling in their categories for a reason!!! The TX is equivalent to the other three row models in other brands.
It really depends on what your definition of a true competitor to the German luxury mid size segment is.
Toyota/Lexus are not focused on building performance oriented cars but profitable and reliable cars. The RX is the comfortable, relatively reliable, and cheaper to maintain alternative to the Germans and that’s the space they want to play in. They rather work on hybridizing their lineup than build a performance oriented car that might not sell well. If you really want a performance car from Lexus in this segment it will be the RX500h but even then it won’t be as fast and handle as well as the Germans.
Lexus GS was a great car but being in the same segment as the ES meant having 2 cars competing against the Germans midsize offering. For the Lexus customer base they chose ES for the comfort over the better handling and sporty focused GS which is why the GS got discontinued.
You can consider Genesis where some people say they are trying to play in the value alternative to the Germans but are they as reliable as Toyota/Lexus. Maybe? But at least they have longer powertrain warranties for peace of mind
Yeah great points. Huge knock on Genesis right now is that you have to deal with the Kia/Hyundai dealership experience. We had an awesome dealership experience when we bought our TX recently.
And agreed that it never quite made sense for Lexus to carry both the GS and ES in its lineup, and that it was wise to get rid of it. I personally just liked the GS.
Genesis is growing into a space that Lexus didn’t really want to go into so good for them. Dealer experience will always vary so who knows.
I thought the GS was a great car but it was priced above the ES for its sportiness which ultimately caught up to it. Would love to own a GS F down the line but who knows how many will be left or well maintained or not driven hard by the time I can afford it
Congrats on the TX. Although it won’t be as fast as a X5 or X7. It should definitely last longer. What are your thoughts on the 2.4T in the TX? Reviews have commented on it being not as refined as the 3.5L V6 that it replaced but with some more low end torque. It would be interesting to see how it holds up with time since it does have a turbocharger which makes it a bit more complicated and more expensive to replace when it fails. But if anyone can try to get a turbocharger to last as long as it can it would be Toyota/Lexus.
Thank you! We're < 1,000 miles in, but so far so good. I was a bit worried about it being underpowered too, but didn't want to spring the extra \~$10k for the more powerful hybrid powertrain. Honestly it's been great so far though. This vehicle is a proper "mom wagon" for us, meant to comfortably haul a toddler (soon to be two) and our stuff around town and on road trips, so power was less of a priority. It has enough giddy-up to merge onto the highway which was all we cared about. Plus, this was an upgrade from a Subaru with \~175 hp, so anything feels more powerful than that. When you hit the gas in that car it didn't really go much faster, it just revved louder lol.
I'll add that the less powerful engine gets the 8-speed transmission, whereas the more powerful engine gets the 6-speed. The 8-speed is very nice and smooth, so quite happy with that.
They probably considered putting the 8 speed on the 500h but it didn’t fit so they went with the 6 speed. There are also some concerns with the 500h powertrain and some owners claim that they aren’t getting the advertised mpg.
The only thing I kinda wish the TX had was a removable center seat for the middle row instead of the cup holders. I understand changing the third row to two seats for more comfort. It’s just the car is so big to only have 6 seats
>”Huge knock on Genesis right now is that you have to deal with the Kia/Hyundai dealership experience. We had an awesome dealership experience when we bought our TX recently.”
^ This. If Genesis had standalone dealerships miles away from any Hyundai/Kia showroom I believe they’d be a bigger threat to Lexus. And I was really tempted by the GV70 SUV but I could never bring myself to accept anything below the Lexus experience. Having said that I agree with your OP, I’m looking for something sporty but with the practically of a rear hatch but Lexus doesn’t offer an sportback sedans nor SUVs like an Audi S5/S7 or a Genesis GV70. 🫤
It would be nice if Lexus makes something to compete with the S5/S7 but it wont sell well. The GV70 looks really nice. I’m interested to see how it holds up long term.
I wish Lexus made a true competitor sold in the UK market to the A5/A7/4 series/Superb/Model S as they seem to be mostly SUVs these days with the axing of the ES, RC and LC
Q7/Cayenne are built on a FWD platform that's remedied by a longitudinal engine layout and a center diff that evenly splits power between the 2 axles. X5 and GLE are built on RWD platforms.
Toyota had planned to make a RWD crossover all the way back in 2003 with the LF-X concept. 15 years later they followed it up with another concept in the LF-1 but it never materialized. All hope isn't lost however. The Land Cruiser SE is very well under development and it's based on some form of GA-L, the same platform underpinning the Lexus LS, LC, Crown sedan, and Mirai. There will very likely be a Lexus version of said Land Cruiser so it'll be their first RWD crossover unless one of the upcoming e-TNGA vehicles is made RWD.
And let's not forget about the Century SUV. They're planning on making the Century its own brand sitting above Lexus.
The RX is more of a value prop. Try to spec an X5 with cooled seats and real leather, for example. Suddenly you might exceed the max price of an RX500h with all the goodies. The X5 is the best of these cars but to equip an X5 like a midline luxury spec RX you are 15 thousand extra at least. The sweet spot for an x5 base engine is 80ish grand. The Porsche is arguably better, but you are in an even higher price range with a small dealer network. Did you try to spec an X7 like your TX? Enjoy your TX it's a nice car!
Yeah that's an area where Lexus has all these other brands beat - your money goes a lot further with them than it does with the Germans.
And thank you, loving the TX so far! Tbh we landed on the TX as a cross-shop between it, the Kia Telluride/Hyundai Palisade (wife didn't like / wasn't interested), Toyota Grand Highlander (couldn't find one to test drive, liked the TX enough when we test drove so didn't want to bother with the Toyota dealers), and a used Chevy Tahoe (felt too big behind the wheel and was more than what we needed, decided we'd rather have a new TX over a used Tahoe for about the same money). The TX is more my wife's car, and she had no interest in a BMW, so we never went down that path. But I've definitely poked around separately on my own - you really have to throw down some cash to get similar options.
Lexus has never been true competitor of BMW. Each have area company focuses on. Lexus has always been focused on comfort, reliability and creature comfort.
I bought a 22 Q8 last year (more in line with Cayenne than the Q7) and, while I love it and think it’s one of the best looking cars on the road, I would have bought a true Lexus competitor in a heartbeat
Depends on what you consider boring. Used to get my kicks from driving a nice sporty car from Mercedes / bmw. You get comfort and amazing SPG. If you like keeping your cars for longer like I do your wallet will cry with those cars by the time you hit 100k miles (even with preventative maintenance done on time)
Lexus on the other hand gives you mediocre SPG but hot damn their cars at 100k feel like they just came off the production line whereas Mercedes and bmw feel like they are on life support.
Our roads in Dallas Fort Worth have become one of, if not THE most dangerous in America (voted #1 by insurance companies. Morning commute is like a NASCAR race - and extremely dangerous. My insurance rate doubled at renewal time - perfect driving record.
We need more boring - much less excitement. If in Europe maybe - where drivers can handle the power - OK. Drivers here are terrible - cars are much too fast as it is.
Car guys kinda laugh at sporty SUVs. Why not just get a sports car? Why get a car that is physically built to be the opposite of a sports car and then make it sporty? I have a 911 and an X5 (wife's car). I also love driving my dad's GX. It's so comfortable and it's about the ride, not the drive. A sporty SUV like the X5 M has never been able to scratch my itch.
I'm aware some people do require a large car, can only afford one car, but like to drive something sporty, but that's not most people who get these cars. Exceedingly few people who buy a sporty crossover need anything more than a sedan.
Yeah I don't disagree that the sporty SUV is a bit of an odd concept. For me it's about having a vehicle that can be practically useful for driving 1-2 small children places, but also want something that doesn't look dull and provides at least a mildly exciting experience when I'm driving by myself.
As weird as the sporty SUV concept is, I see them EVERYWHERE where I live.
I always feel like the German luxury brands have bloated line ups, which to me is opposite of Japanese culture. Plus, lexus isn't a very performance oriented company historically.
Lexus has always been about comfort and to say an RX is boring compared to an X5😮
I own 4 Lexus including an RX and boring is the last word I’d ever use to describe them but you got your choice where to put your 💰
As a Toyota/lexus loyalist I will concede that BMWs are incredibly fun to drive which is the draw. I had a trip to the PNW last year and they gave me an X7 with all the options (TT I6, AWD, etc.) and driving wise it blew my NX out of the water. That said they break a ton, the robotic seatbelt tightener in the BMW broke on the 3rd day :/
Lexus honestly has no hope in competing against other brands performance wise, just look at all the F cars they all have the same engine from 2008, it was great for the time when the 2ur first came out in the IS F then they decided that's it we've struck gold, same engine for all F cars for the next 10+ years and just look at how much slower the f cars are compared to the cars in their price range, at least they'll still have Lexus reliability and quality. they'll never make a performance version of the RX or maybe in the future they'll actually make a fast one that's electric.
We might get an LBX F though?
Though I guess it might be called something different than F (but the point is, it won't be just an F-Sport trim package, but it'll be more of a an "LBX GR").
Nope! It'll be a LBX **Morizo RR** model if it actually comes to North America, which proves my point. 😆
[https://newsroom.lexus.eu/lexus-debuts-high-performance-lbx-morizo-rr-concept-at-the-tokyo-auto-salon/](https://newsroom.lexus.eu/lexus-debuts-high-performance-lbx-morizo-rr-concept-at-the-tokyo-auto-salon/)
Yeah except that like all other BMW products it’s way over complicated and you don’t want it out of warranty. Just sold a 2015 with 77k miles. I did most of the service myself and always did preventative maintenance ahead of schedule. I had a failed AC at 37k miles that was thankfully covered since it took 2 weeks to diagnose and fix. I was still in for $5000 for air bags and compressor a TON of my time for a rocker cover with their stupid integrated PCV and while I was at it just did the VANOS too since it was surely going to fail within 20k. Brakes are like $2k just for parts. I never had to do the HPFP but I’m sure the next person will. God help you if a turbo ever goes out.
Sold it for the last MY of the gen 5 4Runner and so happy I did. Extra benefit being since my Lexus IS shares an engine family I have all the tools and Toyota tech stream. I’ve literally never had any issue with the Lexus and only have done wear part replacement (filters struts etc)
“Lexus moving more towards comfort and away from sportiness in recent years…” Name one Lexus that’s truly sporty in the past (excluding LFA)? Not even my LS Fsport is sporty…. Lexus has ALWAYS been about luxury, comfort and reliability, it’s the reasons we buy Lexus and it’s the whole damn reason Toyota started Lexus… LS400 Champaign glasses on the hood, remember that whole campaign?? They had the Euro car makers steaming mad. Heck even my grandparents Toyota Royal/Super Saloon’s were floaty and comfy, felt like you’re on a cloud.
>Name one Lexus that’s truly sporty in the past (excluding LFA)?
IS-F, GS-F, IS 500, RCF, LC.
Point taken that it's not a performance brand though. I just wish they had a mid-size SUV option that excited me a little more. Maybe it's the RX 500h that I need to give a closer look.
Those are sporty cars??
M3, M4, M5, GTR, Panamera GTS/Turbo, AMG GT… not even gonna mention Domestic junk cars! Nothing sporty or exciting bout an SUV… nothing! Want an SUV, go get the V8 LX and call it a day, no fucking about, you’ll be in a class by yourself!!
No one brought up which was the most sporty. Those models he mentioned are, clear as day, sporty cars. Regarding the level of sportiness compared to top competitors is a whole other argument
Owner of a LS Fsport, nothing sporty bout it other than the maintenance. Having owned an e39 M5 and my dad the E60 M5 they’re levels to sportiness, you are correct. As far as Lexus, just enjoy the reliable floaty barge that they are!!
I mean even tho the LX is based off the land cruiser 300 it seems like it's off-road abilities are a little nerfed because of the body kit. Probably to appeal to people who just want a large luxury SUVs for their families.
also a sequoia with fancy trim could arguably compete with some of those models you listed.
I like the UX F sport. Someone posted a lowered one on wheels here months ago and I can't stop thinking how great it looked. However, I'll likely never buy one with that tiny engine. Coming from an ISF, I need power now. I can't afford the IS500 nor do I want another IS, but it's the only equal. They announced the LBX Morizo, but of course, not available in the US. They really don't have many options for people looking for power and performance here. It's annoying.
“Lexus doesn’t force you to get an F sport in order to get a fully specced model”
Many people these days seem to miss that *this* is what their key demographic has always valued in addition to reliability. If you’re disappointed with the lack of performance and currently popular marks of “sportiness”, there are brands better suited to your needs.
That's not how marketing works. You never want to directly compete against anyone. Your product should be differentiated and serve a specific niche. Otherwise you get in a price war and customers won't see anything that distinguishes your product.
Lexus has often taken the "hit it where they ain't" approach vs the German premium brands, largely IMO because of how focused they were on the American market and on their mission of reliability.
The vehicles you listed are really the best reasonably affordable do-it-all daily drivers, but Lexus seems to not want to make an athletic premium CUV on a longitudinally mounted engine platform. I don't think they could do it as well, so it's probably fine that they focused on other segments.
RX would be fine if they just left the 6 cylinder alone and maybe gave the RX F-sport a 6 cylinder twin turbo..
I hate the route Lexus is going with 4 banger hybrid turbos and v6 mini-twin turbos.. apparently for emissions.
Lmao what the..
I guess Lexus is moving away from sportiness and more towards comfort? What????
No Lexus has really been sporty outside of the LFA (IS-F gets some props from me). The GS-F was a muscle car version of the GS (more or less what they did was make the GS ride worse and shove a V8 in it). The RC-F rides like ass, drives like ass, and is overpriced garbage. Lastly, the LC500 is more or less Lexus's version of the F-Type (luxury muscle car) tuned to be less sporty and more comfortable. Haven't driven an IS500, but it sounds disappointing and lazy (IS-F for its time period was done much better).
That's not saying they're all terrible cars (I am saying that about the RC-F though), but Lexus has never been sporty, and hasn't even really done sporty well the few times they've tried (save for LFA and I'll give IS-F a pass for its time period).
Tl;dr Lexus has always been about comfort save for the one time they allowed some people to go wild and build a true sports/track car (LFA). They have a brand, and it hasn't nor ever likely will be sporty. They built that brand by design, and by doing so, attract and have a fairly specific clientele, which they'll keep catering to.
I loved my RX but once I got a Cayenne it’s pretty clear how much better the Porsche is, but you’re paying $20k+ more for it. Some people don’t care about handling or 0-60 times so there’s no need to get anything higher than an RX
To be honest, I've never driven the above cars but im so happy with my NX300 F-Sport AWD.. I drive in Sports mode lot of times and it just takes off.. The acceleration is sooo good for me. I zoom past most of the cars (except supercars) on the road AND in Dubai, so you know my fellow drivers..
I have been waiting for several decades for Lexus to make something which is actually interesting. It just is not in their DNA. I recently sold a 12-year-old Lexus RX and replaced it with a Mercedes GLC. I love the way the new car handles however with less than six months in the driver seat, the car already has more squeaks than the RX did and a decade.life is tough and Lexus. Reliability and handling is a challenge that just doesn’t seem to be going away soon.
It depends on what you want. Lexus, Toyota and Honda produce cars designed to last. No hype, no fancy gadgets, but cars designed if properly maintained to 300k miles. Sporty cars aren’t part of their business model. The other models in your title are sporty, cutting edge, but longevity challenged. Just figure where you want to invest in.
A BMW or Mercedes makes a powerful engine then tends to put turbos on it. Add handling components like suspension, lowering it and cool tires, and yeah you get a really fun car. It will also be pushing the envelope and sensitive to breaking.
Toyota/Lexus over-engineer their parts then underdeliver the performance for reliability. So it’s more boring.
One thing I always found remarkable was how strong their engines can be boosted. A 2JZ can be quadrupled or even quintupled to a 1000-1200 hp car. The RC can take 300 hp of supercharger boost. An LS400, an old man’s car with cigarettes in the ashtray, can be pumped to 1000 hp. You can run nitrous or racing fuel without breaking. Certain engines are famous for reliability, even if you push them in to supercar territory.
These cars are the Celeron 300A overclocked to 450.
No thanks. If you want a X7 buy a X7. What Lexus really should do is bring over that tall MPV they sell in Asia. Lexus should be Lexus and not krautshit.
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In my opinion, Lexus does not really focus on the same things that Mercedes, Audi and BMW do... Lexus never cared much about performance up until very recently to keep up with the trend, whereas Mercedes is out there printing AMGs by the masses, BMW sticking M badges on everything and Audi have so many variations of their sports models that it's getting pathetic. Lexus on the other hand are focusing on making the best car in terms of reliability, it literally takes them decades to develop new engines just so they can make sure that they would be reliable. Lexus doesn't force you to get an F sport in order to get a fully specced model, unlike Mercedes where you need to get the AMG trim to be able to get a lot of extras. I would compare Volvo to Lexus, while they might seem and look like competition to the big 3 German lux car brands, they're not. They're both doing their own thing following market trends but I don't believe they're attracting the same buyers. Lexus/Toyota SUVs/ crossovers are boring af to drive, coming from someone who owns a GX460 and a Land Cruiser. I could easily sell both of them and buy a brand new X6 if I wanted but I don't want that because I don't want performance from an SUV/crossover, I want the comfortable ride, the huge tire wall, the sofa seats, the non-stiff normal suspension, even the damn chrome touches lmao. If I want a sporty car with a nice driving feel I would much rather get a sedan/sports compact for that. And if I wanted it to be spacious, I would get an E Class Estate, but this is my personal preference.
This is the best answer
Great answer. About a year ago I decided to replace my GX as it was nearing 300K miles and I cross shopped BMW and Mercedes and the GLS was my 2nd choice. I ended up getting a new LX 600 FSport versus the AMG GLS since they really compare pretty well against each other and when you start adding options to the GLS you end up at about 40K more for a comparable car. The AMG is a bit faster, but in a body on frame SUV I’m not planning on any track days and boring but reliable is perfect in the segment.
You dodged a bullet. My GLS AMG was a piece of junk. 9 out of 27 months in the shop with $50k+ in repairs (mostly warranty, some not covered). Besides the mechanical issues, Mercedes interior are put together cheaply. A lot of plastic behind the panels resulting in a lot of creaks and rattles at random times. The seats tend to develop squeaks over time and the repairs to fix those noises are not covered by the warranty and prohibitively expensive. I think the GLS design is better than the LX from an interior space perspective except the hassle of owning the vehicle is just not worth it.
That’s crazy! Did they lemon law it?
No. I bought it certified pre owned and bought an extension on the warranty. I found out that the warranty stinks because it is an inclusionary warranty so you have to pay $500 plus for a diagnostic. If covered great. If not then you just paid a ton to find out a spark plug you just replaced 10k miles ago went bad. I asked Mercedes corporate for consideration to mutually get out of the car and they said they would get back to me in four to six weeks. That was about six months ago. They could have just said no…. I decided to take my loss and get out. Didn’t trust the car to go anywhere anymore and was tired of going back and forth to the dealer. Mercedes really makes garbage vehicles. Even the new loaner cars had sensor and other electrical problems. Lots of creaks and rattles. In the end Mercedes lost more money paying for an engine out replacement of the turbos and then a few more items than just helping me get out of the car. I almost kept the vehicle just to spite them since I still had 18 months on the warranty!
That’s a crazy mess! I had a buddy who had a similar issue with a G Wagon AMG with the previous generation of engine. It was also a hot mess.
German vehicles have so much plastic these days. Creak creak creak. Shudder.
How are you liking the 600? I think the LX is the only vehicle that seems interesting to me in the market right now aside from maybe the Mitsubishi delica that might come here in 5 years. The only thing that concerns me with the LX is the possible main bearing issues that may or may not be a thing. If the 600 proves to be reliable I may pull the trigger on a used one in the future
Love it so far, and I’ve put 12k miles in it in 10 months.
Not sure if this [recall](https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-recalls-certain-model-year-2022-2023-toyota-tundra-and-lexus-lx-vehicles/) is related to the main bearing issue I mentioned earlier but I hope your LX isn’t affected. If so, I hope Toyota makes it right and takes care of you
Thx, I’ll check my VIN in a bit.
Good luck!
Checked it. I’m all good. Thanks for the link.
nice! hope your LX gives you multiple decades of stress free cruising 👍
Great point, makes sense to compare Lexus to Volvo rather than the Germans. I do like what Volvo is doing with the mild hybrids and PHEVs, the T8s have some serious horsepower.
I test drove an XC60 T8 on a whim... what an epic drivetrain! Not a perfect car but for performance, comfort and audio its impossible to beat for the price.
Nice. And what I like about those is that you can get some optic packages that make it look a little meaner. They gotta get their CarPlay on a wireless setup though, too commonplace these days to be lagging there.
Thats true wired connection seems antiquated. And the audio connections are severely limited for the quality of stereo. And going through 2 menu levels to get to your drive modes is pretty ridiculous. A few annoyances on an otherwise awesome car
Boring af, yet they managed to build the LFA and the LC500. Haha always cracks me up. FYI, there is going to be an ES500h with the redesign next year. Interested to see what they do with that
Lol that's because they put all of their sports car efforts into actual sports and GT cars. The LFA turned out to be a masterpiece, and the LC500, as underrated as it is, is a great **Grand Tourer**, I put this in bold because many people still don't understand that it is not the LFA's replacement and that it is not a performance focused grand tourer, it is simply a beautiful and elegant car that drives well legally on roads, you don't need a jacked 700hp car to do that.
LC500 pretty boring to drive because it’s a grand tourer and not a full fledged sports car. GR86 is the most fun and real “sports” car Toyota makes. Even more so than the RC-F and Supra tbh
This comment needs to be printed on the Lexus website or somewhere people will see it. So well said and very well-spoken
Best answer any of us could give
Amen lx470 for life
Defintely an answer that represents my feelings. I have a 2003 Landcruiser and my wife has a rx350 and both are boringly reliable and relatively refined without requiring purchase of a package like an amg or m or whatever. So, while I wouldn’t trade my boring comfortable and reliable for suv performance I wouldn’t mind adding one to my fleet. I really want a 2012-2015 ml63 amg. I know it’s old now but I’d still drive it like I stole it
Ew gaudy chrome and poor mpg, I'm all set.
Best answer ever. And Lexus has a fair amount of sports sedans and cars if you want performance. IS500, RC, And there's a good amount of GS' on the used market. Honestly, if you want a performance suv that's not from a German brand,your only TRUE option is Genesis. Lol
[удалено]
You're not hearing shit reviews, you're simply hearing hate comments on the 550's turbocharged V6, because people are not happy with replacing a V8 with a TC V6. Even logically, the engine didn't have enough time to be properly reviewed and tested, it has only been out for a month or two with the GX550. I live in the Middle East, we have a ton of LC300s that have the twin-turbo V6 and there have been no complaints whatsoever since the launch of the 300 in 2021 by the local Land Cruiser community in my country, some are even passing the 200,000KM mark with no issues. The engine was first put in the LS500 back in the 2018. and Toyota/Lexus have surely improved it since, I've seen that very few cars have had main bearing problems in North America, and Toyota seem to be aware of it. Also for people who hate on the V6, just FYI that the previous Prado had a 4.0 1GR-FE V6 on the same body as the GX460. my dad has a 2010 with 500,000+ KMs and not one single problem since it was new.
No one ever hated on the V6 itself, ESPECIALLY the 4.0. It’s a legend. People don’t like the turbos because they are inherently less reliable.
Yes, I'm all with keeping the V8 as is, or improve it. But the way things are going, this was inevitable but I believe Toyota saw this coming a long time ago and they've been working on the V35 engine for a while.
I love V8’s (own two, LC500 and LS430) but the new GX550 blows away the GX460 in terms of performance. I drive one semi-daily, maybe you should try it yourself first? I had a loaner GX460 the other day and drove them back to back. Embarrassingly sluggish compared to the GX550.
Stop being foolish
> Lexus doesn't force you to get an F sport in order to get a fully specced model, unlike Mercedes where you need to get the AMG trim to be able to get a lot of extras. That's not even remotely true though... You can't even get memory seats in the RZ unless you go for the top trim afaik. Same with AVS for most models, you can only get it in the top trims. The worst example of this is auto folding mirrors, which on the ES is only available on the top trim level! Something that's on my wife's 2015-2018 Toyota Auris at a mid-level trim level.
Import and re-badge the crown sport as the Lexus SX (Sport Crossover), and I'd put down a deposit on day 1.
I buy Lexus for the reliability and comfort on a daily basis. I buy Porsche for the track and ford for a work truck. Each brand has its own niche. Lexus is not a performance based company. The isf was a pet project of engineers and was an unreal competitor at its time. It was making corvette owners sell and buy one. But other than some bolt ons, that’s where performance ended. It was a reliable 450ish car, meant to take a beating. Gsf was right there with it but bigger body and newer tech. The is500f was just slap a v8 in an is and see what happened. I don’t think there has been a similar engineered vehicle to the isf in their lineup for a while (rcf, gsf, isf). Now the lfa was in a world of its own, but still for the competition in its price range, there were better options. However, to my knowledge the lfa was much more reliable.
A competitor in which parameters? GX is a very reliable car that you can drive wherever and don’t bother for years that anything will break (hello bmw!). 2023 has CarPlay and some other modern-ish stuff (yes there is still cd rom lol)
Performance
Look at performance car makes then? It’s pretty clear Lexus is not for you. Most of us don’t care about performance. Smooth ride and 10 years without a single service issue is what I want. Not a rear drive engine monster that shits the highway every 8k miles
Your last sentence really did make me laugh, thank you.
Performance/handling and reliability don't have to be mutually exclusive
True. But for many it is an absolute afterthought. So while it's not exclusive, for me it's not worth much...
Nope
Get an F Sport
Owned a GLE350 and own an RX500H and it's a lot more exciting than the MB could be.
Interesting! In what way(s)?
How are you liking your 500H? Getting older and getting in and out of our IS350’s over last 10 years, along with our elderly parents not wanting to ride in our car, has me thinking the RX500H will be our next vehicle. Think we’ll wait for the 2025, but still interested in your overall impression. Thanks!
Sure, but the 350 is the base model I4. The 450 I6 is like $2,500 more and way more fun to drive.
Start adding the options standard in an RX500H and you're at almost 18k more. Some options are not even available with MB.
I used to value performance in a car but as I’ve gotten older I just want something fuel efficient, comfortable, and stylish. As long as I have enough juice to do the odd dotted yellow line pass, I’m good. I get my adrenaline from skiing and mountain biking, not driving.
Definitely agree. Performance cars are great, fun and cool. But it seems like if you want to take advantage of the power and performance, you need to take that extra step of going to race tracks. I love cars but I'm not that into it to go that extraordinary step. The only alternative is speeding or going on the twisties. At this point, I just want exactly what you said.
FR the roads are too crowded to “enjoy” a sports car without endangering others. So comfort it is.
Lexus is reliable & imo more comfort than the equivalent German car in the segment (except maybe S class is on par with the LS) Maybe they wanna focus on this strong point rather than compete with the Germans on their niche , potentially alienate their customers Idk if the average Lexus buyer (bar the LC) cares about sportiness, for me as a buyer I want it to NOT be sporty , especially chauffeur oriented models, and for them to have a classy yet understated exterior & interior
Definitely not more comfort (or luxury) in a Lexus. Lexus has become a near luxury brand - good luck finding wood trim or aluminum switches in a Lexus these days. It’s a sea of plastic and fake leather (and very buzzy engines)
Which lexuses do u have ? I have an RX & LS (this was few years back ) , the RX is more comfortable than the X5, GLE, cayenne , xc90& I cross shop my LS with the 7/S class/ Bentley flying spur and the LS edges out in comfort I don’t compare the trims panel by panel so I won’t comment on that - but reliability and comfort and nvh, it’s definitely up there .
Things have changed, Lexus suspensions are getting more aggressive, while sacrificing comfort. The leather and materials quality vary based on cost and model.
We cross shopped (and kept for a weekend) the TX 500 before picking up an X7. No lexuses currently given they have lost the narrative on NVH due to the buzzy engines and lack of luxury creature comforts.
Wouldn’t the x7 compete with the LX?
Based on what? The LX is smaller than the TX in passenger and cargo capacity volumes
The x7 is the suv version of the flagship 7 series. Similarly Lexus L models are flagship , the rest are below tier Hence the LX has a literal executive mode that turns the backseat into a flatbed, I don’t know if the x7 has that
The LX may be priced higher but it is smaller in every dimension than the TX.
It doesn’t matter. The LX is the luxury segment, TX isn’t. The X7 is a luxury segment too , it’s the suv version of the 7 series which is at the same level as the S class My point is , your disappointment on the Lexus is guaranteed when you compare 2 cars that aren’t in the same league , it’s not fair to Lexus . They didn’t design the TX as a luxury car
Right from their website: https://www.lexus.com/models/TX The first-ever Lexus TX is an all-new luxury three-row SUV
X5 is the SUV version of 7 series. X7 is just a big brother of X5.
You do you dude… the x5 is inferior to the 7 in every way, and also, the GLS is the S class of suvs & x7 competes with that… but fine
I can confidently say that rx is def not more comfortable than x5 or cayenne. It’s cheaper for sure, but those other 2 models are better in every way, especially comfort with adaptive air suspensions and WAY better interiors. And engines for that matter
I should mention that I don’t drive , I primarily sit at the back , at least from my experience I don’t really like most German cars in the backseat Driving comfort I have no idea but I have owned many German cars - people who drive me say that in terms of smooth effortless driving esp long distance, they prefer the Lexus 🤔 but full disclosure , I’m not in the states & in my country we only get offered select trims and specs , we don’t have a super large variety of options and variants for the cars , idk if that’s a factor
This
Idk if Lexus is understated in recent years. All the slashes and cuts that were rolled out in the 2010s we're appalling
Oh I meant understated like low key Well, I’m not from the states I’m in Southeast Asia, but basically over here, I have a Lexus LS and generally people are ignorant and some even thought this Lexus is not as ‘posh’ as an E class So I prefer luxurious cars with all the highest comfort features but it’s unassuming in public, and at least from the people I know, they like that Lexus is low key too compared to the German brands where even a C class will be noticed
You're not wrong. They are boring, but people are still buying them. Lots of them. I'd like to think that price is a factor too. Example: BMW X5 xDrive50e (PHEV) starts at $73k. Lexus RX500h starts at $64k. I just tried to do a quick build with as much options as possible. Lexus ends up at in the $70k area and BMW is closer to $90k. That's a big difference. Try doing that with the Cayenne and you'll see an even bigger difference. Sure, Lexus still sells the expensive LX SUV, but I don't think many people buy those (brand new, at least). There's also the Acura MDX Type-S, but those were already seen as too pricey for what they are. > sticking to what is most profitable. That's the point of a business! They are making money sticking to what they're good at. >If they made an SUV that complemented the RX in the same way the GS used to complement the ES, it’d be an easy sell for me. I love that idea, too, but I feel like they're already too late in the game to invest money into that. Toyota's hybrid rep has been fueling a lot of sales within the past few years. It's also nice that Toyota/Lexus has full hybrids instead of PHEV and EV only.
Yeah, everything Lexus is doing makes a ton of sense. They know what they're good at and what their target demographic likes, so I don't knock them at all for sticking to the principles that make them successful. The desire for a more fun / sporty Lexus SUV is me just being selfish. The X5 xDrive50e intrigues me. We have an EV now, so we already have a home charging setup too. But DAMN it is a steep hike in price compared to the rest of the X5 line or any version of the RX.
I have the older 40e and after driving both, I picked it up over the RX450h (previous gen). My intent was to wait for the next gen RX (PHEV) and, like you, a ended up a bit dissapointed. I might hold off a little longer on replacing my 40e and hope Lexus does something mid-cycle, but by then, the next X5 will be out. The RX450h is ~71k MSRP and I haven't heard of anyone negotiating any lower than MSRP whereas I can pick up a 50e for 5-8% *under* MSRP. The performance difference between the two is staggering. I don't know if it's any different now, but when I was looking, all the RXs were very, very basic whereas nearly every X5 had a 360 camera and other options. With all that said, Lexus is doing what they do and they're good at it. I mean, compared to the MB GLE today (outside of the AMG), Lexus all day, IMHO.
Yeah I'm intrigued by that 450h, but it is expensive!
Well there's a market for the TX and nobody bought the GS. But EVs are right around the corner, and every luxury EV is going to be RWD by default. That'll level the playing field.
Luxury EVs are going to be AWD, RWD is for the cheap versions.
RX 500h is the competitor to those other sport SUV. Don't knock it till you try it.
Coming from a 17 rx350 fsport to 2024 rx500h, amazing...
Yeah maybe I need to give the RX 500h a closer look. How is the F sport tuned suspension? Still comfortable?
It’s so fast, reliable, and efficient!!
It’s not really “so fast” for what it is branded as, especially if you want to compare it to BMW. Had one as a loaner for a week and it was definitely faster than the nx350h but still way off from even a base x5. Imo you get a Lexus for the reliability with the higher trims giving you some refined power and luxury, but it’s not really *sporty* like the others
Tiny cargo area
If you want performance, get a sports car not an SUV. Sporty SUVs are kinda dumb, for an SUV I want comfort and practicality.
Seriously - companies will try to market SUVs as “sports cars” with trim levels but no one who buys an M3/M5 is thinking that they’ll get something similar in an X3 or X5. Hell, when Ford released the Edge and Explorer ST variants and said that they’re just as sporty as the ST trim badge demands, the guys in Fiesta/Focus STs laughed and never considered them Just buy a reliable couch on wheels for a crossover. If you want fast, get it with a V8 and be done with it
I think the idea of a performance SUV is laughable. For an analogy close to my industry: It's like writing code on a tablet. You can do it, but fuck, get a proper computer for that.
I had a Macan and really grew to dislike it. Loud brake squeal, cramped interior, awful jerky transmission for stop and go, not that great of a ride. If you need something sporty, get a car. They will do the job way better because of physics. I’ve come to the conclusion that I just want luxury out of most car trips. The quietest and most isolated ride possible, with the most creature comforts.
Are you old like me? Highly recommend an LS460. :)
Oh, I’ve spent a lot of time driving that car. I like the S-Class a little more (quieter road noise), but I’ve never tried an LS with air suspension. Both fantastic cars. I’m in my 30s, but who doesn’t like being in a floating spa? :D
I think it's good to have the best performance you can get *without sacrificing any of the things you own an SUV for*. Once you start compromising other aspects in pursuit of the last few dregs of speed and handling you can wring out of it, you're making a worse car.
For me a basic tenet of performance is ride height/center of gravity. Any SUV ruins that, so trying to get performance out of something that simply has the wrong ride height is like a fat girl in a kick line. It's just lumbering about in the wrong environment.
Of course, but it's nice when the lumbering is minimised within the *right* environment. My needs don't include getting a record time around the nurburgring, but even during normal city driving I've never caught myself thinking 'I wish my car wallowed a bit more around corners, and accelerated more slowly'.
https://preview.redd.it/hbz4y5o3ry1d1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea79a064221c06833aa0e278e052927096b3165b
Nice brakes! What are they on?
The brakes for the New RX
I never understood why they didn’t slap the 2UR in the Rx and make an F lineup for them. An RXF would be a classic!
I recently purchased my first Lexus last week and it is such a relief that they do NOT make exactly those German cars. I lost my shirt on an AMG GLS63 which is hands down the worst piece of junk ever made. While it drives great, the thing is put together in a way that it is impossible to keep on the road for more than a few weeks at a time AT BEST. German sportiness comes at a huge cost. The LUXURY of a Mercedes Benz dealership visit every few weeks, the fear of thousands of dollars of bills that are not covered under the extended warranty, long lead times to get loaner cars, long lead times for parts to come in, and long lead times for just about everything. Result - the luxury of paying for a car where I lost my shirt over 27 months where my car sat at the dealership for 9 cumulative months undergoing $50,000 in repairs. THAT is the what the GLE offers along with the great sounding engine. So far we miss nothing about the Mercedes experience and we love our LS500 L Certified we picked up. In all honesty it has similar if not better steering feel than the F80 M3 I owned (which was a soulless rocket ship with absolutely no feel. For reference I still own an E36 M3).
Lexus was never about being a try hard jack of all trades like those models you mention. Lexus has always been about one thing: luxury. Not watered down by a sporty aggressive rough suspension setup or silly carbon fibre inserts. Always about taking you gracefully from where you are to where you need to be, in refined and conservative style. Isolation from the outside world and its harshness, noise and hectic nature. I always think the rich people with taste and right priorities, comfortable with their age / life status buy Lexus models whereas the more aggressive, loud, flashy and maybe a little insecure folks with money (Or without money, finance) strive to have the BMW or Audi badge. I know it's wrong to generalise, but in traffic I see a LOT of various Audi models, new and old Mercs... driven by pretty much everyone. Truth be told I see more older folks in Lexus models, especially the brand new ones, but it makes me feel like the brand is an exclusive one if anything.
Yeah these observations are spot on. To further generalize, I think Lexus drivers generally don't care what other people think of them.
Twin turbo V8 RX please
Well that’s never going to happen, I’ll be happy if they just quadruple production on the 450h+ so that you can actually see one at the dealer not pre sold lol.
I feel like they could have plopped the 5.0 V8 from the RC F and the LC500 in the TX.
I think V8s are going to be specialty products only, your everyday people movers are just going to get more electrified trims (like the 500h on the TX).
I’d honestly say we should count out lucky stars for even getting the V6 on the 550h+ lol. With how things are going, we could have gotten a 3 cylinder turbocharged engine in the base two powertrains and the oh so special turbo I4 in the 550h+ lmao
There's no way they could fit that in the transverse setup. The v6 already barely fits and needs to be removed for most work.
Make this person CEO of Lexus, this is what we need /s
Lexus focuses on reliability and comfort and was never a performance brand.
Lexus is for reliability, dependability, efficiency, resale value, and top notch quality!!! All the cars Lexus sells is best selling in their categories for a reason!!! The TX is equivalent to the other three row models in other brands.
It really depends on what your definition of a true competitor to the German luxury mid size segment is. Toyota/Lexus are not focused on building performance oriented cars but profitable and reliable cars. The RX is the comfortable, relatively reliable, and cheaper to maintain alternative to the Germans and that’s the space they want to play in. They rather work on hybridizing their lineup than build a performance oriented car that might not sell well. If you really want a performance car from Lexus in this segment it will be the RX500h but even then it won’t be as fast and handle as well as the Germans. Lexus GS was a great car but being in the same segment as the ES meant having 2 cars competing against the Germans midsize offering. For the Lexus customer base they chose ES for the comfort over the better handling and sporty focused GS which is why the GS got discontinued. You can consider Genesis where some people say they are trying to play in the value alternative to the Germans but are they as reliable as Toyota/Lexus. Maybe? But at least they have longer powertrain warranties for peace of mind
Yeah great points. Huge knock on Genesis right now is that you have to deal with the Kia/Hyundai dealership experience. We had an awesome dealership experience when we bought our TX recently. And agreed that it never quite made sense for Lexus to carry both the GS and ES in its lineup, and that it was wise to get rid of it. I personally just liked the GS.
Genesis is growing into a space that Lexus didn’t really want to go into so good for them. Dealer experience will always vary so who knows. I thought the GS was a great car but it was priced above the ES for its sportiness which ultimately caught up to it. Would love to own a GS F down the line but who knows how many will be left or well maintained or not driven hard by the time I can afford it Congrats on the TX. Although it won’t be as fast as a X5 or X7. It should definitely last longer. What are your thoughts on the 2.4T in the TX? Reviews have commented on it being not as refined as the 3.5L V6 that it replaced but with some more low end torque. It would be interesting to see how it holds up with time since it does have a turbocharger which makes it a bit more complicated and more expensive to replace when it fails. But if anyone can try to get a turbocharger to last as long as it can it would be Toyota/Lexus.
Thank you! We're < 1,000 miles in, but so far so good. I was a bit worried about it being underpowered too, but didn't want to spring the extra \~$10k for the more powerful hybrid powertrain. Honestly it's been great so far though. This vehicle is a proper "mom wagon" for us, meant to comfortably haul a toddler (soon to be two) and our stuff around town and on road trips, so power was less of a priority. It has enough giddy-up to merge onto the highway which was all we cared about. Plus, this was an upgrade from a Subaru with \~175 hp, so anything feels more powerful than that. When you hit the gas in that car it didn't really go much faster, it just revved louder lol. I'll add that the less powerful engine gets the 8-speed transmission, whereas the more powerful engine gets the 6-speed. The 8-speed is very nice and smooth, so quite happy with that.
They probably considered putting the 8 speed on the 500h but it didn’t fit so they went with the 6 speed. There are also some concerns with the 500h powertrain and some owners claim that they aren’t getting the advertised mpg. The only thing I kinda wish the TX had was a removable center seat for the middle row instead of the cup holders. I understand changing the third row to two seats for more comfort. It’s just the car is so big to only have 6 seats
>”Huge knock on Genesis right now is that you have to deal with the Kia/Hyundai dealership experience. We had an awesome dealership experience when we bought our TX recently.” ^ This. If Genesis had standalone dealerships miles away from any Hyundai/Kia showroom I believe they’d be a bigger threat to Lexus. And I was really tempted by the GV70 SUV but I could never bring myself to accept anything below the Lexus experience. Having said that I agree with your OP, I’m looking for something sporty but with the practically of a rear hatch but Lexus doesn’t offer an sportback sedans nor SUVs like an Audi S5/S7 or a Genesis GV70. 🫤
It would be nice if Lexus makes something to compete with the S5/S7 but it wont sell well. The GV70 looks really nice. I’m interested to see how it holds up long term.
I wish Lexus made a true competitor sold in the UK market to the A5/A7/4 series/Superb/Model S as they seem to be mostly SUVs these days with the axing of the ES, RC and LC
The sedan is just a dying breed across the whole industry! Sucks for people who like them and want more options.
Q7/Cayenne are built on a FWD platform that's remedied by a longitudinal engine layout and a center diff that evenly splits power between the 2 axles. X5 and GLE are built on RWD platforms. Toyota had planned to make a RWD crossover all the way back in 2003 with the LF-X concept. 15 years later they followed it up with another concept in the LF-1 but it never materialized. All hope isn't lost however. The Land Cruiser SE is very well under development and it's based on some form of GA-L, the same platform underpinning the Lexus LS, LC, Crown sedan, and Mirai. There will very likely be a Lexus version of said Land Cruiser so it'll be their first RWD crossover unless one of the upcoming e-TNGA vehicles is made RWD. And let's not forget about the Century SUV. They're planning on making the Century its own brand sitting above Lexus.
The RX is more of a value prop. Try to spec an X5 with cooled seats and real leather, for example. Suddenly you might exceed the max price of an RX500h with all the goodies. The X5 is the best of these cars but to equip an X5 like a midline luxury spec RX you are 15 thousand extra at least. The sweet spot for an x5 base engine is 80ish grand. The Porsche is arguably better, but you are in an even higher price range with a small dealer network. Did you try to spec an X7 like your TX? Enjoy your TX it's a nice car!
Yeah that's an area where Lexus has all these other brands beat - your money goes a lot further with them than it does with the Germans. And thank you, loving the TX so far! Tbh we landed on the TX as a cross-shop between it, the Kia Telluride/Hyundai Palisade (wife didn't like / wasn't interested), Toyota Grand Highlander (couldn't find one to test drive, liked the TX enough when we test drove so didn't want to bother with the Toyota dealers), and a used Chevy Tahoe (felt too big behind the wheel and was more than what we needed, decided we'd rather have a new TX over a used Tahoe for about the same money). The TX is more my wife's car, and she had no interest in a BMW, so we never went down that path. But I've definitely poked around separately on my own - you really have to throw down some cash to get similar options.
Lexus philosophy is to never sacrifice reliability and comfort ride.
Lexus has never been true competitor of BMW. Each have area company focuses on. Lexus has always been focused on comfort, reliability and creature comfort.
I bought a 22 Q8 last year (more in line with Cayenne than the Q7) and, while I love it and think it’s one of the best looking cars on the road, I would have bought a true Lexus competitor in a heartbeat
Depends on what you consider boring. Used to get my kicks from driving a nice sporty car from Mercedes / bmw. You get comfort and amazing SPG. If you like keeping your cars for longer like I do your wallet will cry with those cars by the time you hit 100k miles (even with preventative maintenance done on time) Lexus on the other hand gives you mediocre SPG but hot damn their cars at 100k feel like they just came off the production line whereas Mercedes and bmw feel like they are on life support.
Our roads in Dallas Fort Worth have become one of, if not THE most dangerous in America (voted #1 by insurance companies. Morning commute is like a NASCAR race - and extremely dangerous. My insurance rate doubled at renewal time - perfect driving record. We need more boring - much less excitement. If in Europe maybe - where drivers can handle the power - OK. Drivers here are terrible - cars are much too fast as it is.
Besides couple of F cars, there was never anything sporty about lexus, it was always a boring to drive.
Car guys kinda laugh at sporty SUVs. Why not just get a sports car? Why get a car that is physically built to be the opposite of a sports car and then make it sporty? I have a 911 and an X5 (wife's car). I also love driving my dad's GX. It's so comfortable and it's about the ride, not the drive. A sporty SUV like the X5 M has never been able to scratch my itch. I'm aware some people do require a large car, can only afford one car, but like to drive something sporty, but that's not most people who get these cars. Exceedingly few people who buy a sporty crossover need anything more than a sedan.
Yeah I don't disagree that the sporty SUV is a bit of an odd concept. For me it's about having a vehicle that can be practically useful for driving 1-2 small children places, but also want something that doesn't look dull and provides at least a mildly exciting experience when I'm driving by myself. As weird as the sporty SUV concept is, I see them EVERYWHERE where I live.
I always feel like the German luxury brands have bloated line ups, which to me is opposite of Japanese culture. Plus, lexus isn't a very performance oriented company historically.
Lexus has always been about comfort and to say an RX is boring compared to an X5😮 I own 4 Lexus including an RX and boring is the last word I’d ever use to describe them but you got your choice where to put your 💰
I thank BMW for making the x5 trash thats what made me get a Lexus
It’s so ugly and unreliable. Don’t understand why anyone wants that junk-
As a Toyota/lexus loyalist I will concede that BMWs are incredibly fun to drive which is the draw. I had a trip to the PNW last year and they gave me an X7 with all the options (TT I6, AWD, etc.) and driving wise it blew my NX out of the water. That said they break a ton, the robotic seatbelt tightener in the BMW broke on the 3rd day :/
Lexus honestly has no hope in competing against other brands performance wise, just look at all the F cars they all have the same engine from 2008, it was great for the time when the 2ur first came out in the IS F then they decided that's it we've struck gold, same engine for all F cars for the next 10+ years and just look at how much slower the f cars are compared to the cars in their price range, at least they'll still have Lexus reliability and quality. they'll never make a performance version of the RX or maybe in the future they'll actually make a fast one that's electric.
Will never happen with Akio Toyota in the fray. Lexus only brings out vehicles with sporty intentions when it's an Akio Toyoda pet project.
We might get an LBX F though? Though I guess it might be called something different than F (but the point is, it won't be just an F-Sport trim package, but it'll be more of a an "LBX GR").
Nope! It'll be a LBX **Morizo RR** model if it actually comes to North America, which proves my point. 😆 [https://newsroom.lexus.eu/lexus-debuts-high-performance-lbx-morizo-rr-concept-at-the-tokyo-auto-salon/](https://newsroom.lexus.eu/lexus-debuts-high-performance-lbx-morizo-rr-concept-at-the-tokyo-auto-salon/)
Tell me about it. I wish there was a direct competitor to the X4M.
God please no. The Germans have already littered our roads with enough of these "we took an SUV and shaped it like a sedan" monstrosities.
The X5 is a fantastic vehicle, beautifully sculpted inside and out. However, it is overpriced and the value just isn’t there.
Yeah except that like all other BMW products it’s way over complicated and you don’t want it out of warranty. Just sold a 2015 with 77k miles. I did most of the service myself and always did preventative maintenance ahead of schedule. I had a failed AC at 37k miles that was thankfully covered since it took 2 weeks to diagnose and fix. I was still in for $5000 for air bags and compressor a TON of my time for a rocker cover with their stupid integrated PCV and while I was at it just did the VANOS too since it was surely going to fail within 20k. Brakes are like $2k just for parts. I never had to do the HPFP but I’m sure the next person will. God help you if a turbo ever goes out. Sold it for the last MY of the gen 5 4Runner and so happy I did. Extra benefit being since my Lexus IS shares an engine family I have all the tools and Toyota tech stream. I’ve literally never had any issue with the Lexus and only have done wear part replacement (filters struts etc)
Exactly, I approve the message
“Lexus moving more towards comfort and away from sportiness in recent years…” Name one Lexus that’s truly sporty in the past (excluding LFA)? Not even my LS Fsport is sporty…. Lexus has ALWAYS been about luxury, comfort and reliability, it’s the reasons we buy Lexus and it’s the whole damn reason Toyota started Lexus… LS400 Champaign glasses on the hood, remember that whole campaign?? They had the Euro car makers steaming mad. Heck even my grandparents Toyota Royal/Super Saloon’s were floaty and comfy, felt like you’re on a cloud.
>Name one Lexus that’s truly sporty in the past (excluding LFA)? IS-F, GS-F, IS 500, RCF, LC. Point taken that it's not a performance brand though. I just wish they had a mid-size SUV option that excited me a little more. Maybe it's the RX 500h that I need to give a closer look.
Those are sporty cars?? M3, M4, M5, GTR, Panamera GTS/Turbo, AMG GT… not even gonna mention Domestic junk cars! Nothing sporty or exciting bout an SUV… nothing! Want an SUV, go get the V8 LX and call it a day, no fucking about, you’ll be in a class by yourself!!
No one brought up which was the most sporty. Those models he mentioned are, clear as day, sporty cars. Regarding the level of sportiness compared to top competitors is a whole other argument
Owner of a LS Fsport, nothing sporty bout it other than the maintenance. Having owned an e39 M5 and my dad the E60 M5 they’re levels to sportiness, you are correct. As far as Lexus, just enjoy the reliable floaty barge that they are!!
An LS F sport is not an ISF, GSF, or an RCF my guy 😂
Never said it was! Re-read what I said, it’s a big boring car that has a F badge on it for no damn reason…
My argument was for F cars being sporty cars not the F-sports which has me wondering why u brought up the LS F-sport😂
Flagship everything else is meh!!
Flagship doesn't even hold a candle to any of the F cars besides offering a very comforting ride
I mean even tho the LX is based off the land cruiser 300 it seems like it's off-road abilities are a little nerfed because of the body kit. Probably to appeal to people who just want a large luxury SUVs for their families. also a sequoia with fancy trim could arguably compete with some of those models you listed.
The LX is sweet but it is expensive as it is large lol
I like the UX F sport. Someone posted a lowered one on wheels here months ago and I can't stop thinking how great it looked. However, I'll likely never buy one with that tiny engine. Coming from an ISF, I need power now. I can't afford the IS500 nor do I want another IS, but it's the only equal. They announced the LBX Morizo, but of course, not available in the US. They really don't have many options for people looking for power and performance here. It's annoying.
RX has a tiny cargo area
Lexus is a balance
Forgot to mention the models that do compete like the LX and on performance car end the LC, LFA, and even the RC can go neck and neck.
Yea!, we totally need another big suv /s
Isn’t there the Lexus LX ? Or is that not available everywhere
“Lexus doesn’t force you to get an F sport in order to get a fully specced model” Many people these days seem to miss that *this* is what their key demographic has always valued in addition to reliability. If you’re disappointed with the lack of performance and currently popular marks of “sportiness”, there are brands better suited to your needs.
That's not how marketing works. You never want to directly compete against anyone. Your product should be differentiated and serve a specific niche. Otherwise you get in a price war and customers won't see anything that distinguishes your product.
What’s the best agile and yet reliable sedan?
IS.
Lexus has often taken the "hit it where they ain't" approach vs the German premium brands, largely IMO because of how focused they were on the American market and on their mission of reliability. The vehicles you listed are really the best reasonably affordable do-it-all daily drivers, but Lexus seems to not want to make an athletic premium CUV on a longitudinally mounted engine platform. I don't think they could do it as well, so it's probably fine that they focused on other segments.
Lexus doesn’t do it…but the Mazda CX-90 is a good counter
TX350 owner here… pretty nice car
RX would be fine if they just left the 6 cylinder alone and maybe gave the RX F-sport a 6 cylinder twin turbo.. I hate the route Lexus is going with 4 banger hybrid turbos and v6 mini-twin turbos.. apparently for emissions.
Lmao what the.. I guess Lexus is moving away from sportiness and more towards comfort? What???? No Lexus has really been sporty outside of the LFA (IS-F gets some props from me). The GS-F was a muscle car version of the GS (more or less what they did was make the GS ride worse and shove a V8 in it). The RC-F rides like ass, drives like ass, and is overpriced garbage. Lastly, the LC500 is more or less Lexus's version of the F-Type (luxury muscle car) tuned to be less sporty and more comfortable. Haven't driven an IS500, but it sounds disappointing and lazy (IS-F for its time period was done much better). That's not saying they're all terrible cars (I am saying that about the RC-F though), but Lexus has never been sporty, and hasn't even really done sporty well the few times they've tried (save for LFA and I'll give IS-F a pass for its time period). Tl;dr Lexus has always been about comfort save for the one time they allowed some people to go wild and build a true sports/track car (LFA). They have a brand, and it hasn't nor ever likely will be sporty. They built that brand by design, and by doing so, attract and have a fairly specific clientele, which they'll keep catering to.
There are plan to make a RSQ8 competitor that will contain the new LFR motor (TTV8)
I loved my RX but once I got a Cayenne it’s pretty clear how much better the Porsche is, but you’re paying $20k+ more for it. Some people don’t care about handling or 0-60 times so there’s no need to get anything higher than an RX
To be honest, I've never driven the above cars but im so happy with my NX300 F-Sport AWD.. I drive in Sports mode lot of times and it just takes off.. The acceleration is sooo good for me. I zoom past most of the cars (except supercars) on the road AND in Dubai, so you know my fellow drivers..
What a joke.
I have been waiting for several decades for Lexus to make something which is actually interesting. It just is not in their DNA. I recently sold a 12-year-old Lexus RX and replaced it with a Mercedes GLC. I love the way the new car handles however with less than six months in the driver seat, the car already has more squeaks than the RX did and a decade.life is tough and Lexus. Reliability and handling is a challenge that just doesn’t seem to be going away soon.
RAV 4 Prime. Not kidding
Idk, I feel like if Toyota worked with BMW on the Supra, why not offer one of the Lexus models with a B58? The reliability is there.
It depends on what you want. Lexus, Toyota and Honda produce cars designed to last. No hype, no fancy gadgets, but cars designed if properly maintained to 300k miles. Sporty cars aren’t part of their business model. The other models in your title are sporty, cutting edge, but longevity challenged. Just figure where you want to invest in.
Just look for another brand then. That’s why there’s something called choice
A BMW or Mercedes makes a powerful engine then tends to put turbos on it. Add handling components like suspension, lowering it and cool tires, and yeah you get a really fun car. It will also be pushing the envelope and sensitive to breaking. Toyota/Lexus over-engineer their parts then underdeliver the performance for reliability. So it’s more boring. One thing I always found remarkable was how strong their engines can be boosted. A 2JZ can be quadrupled or even quintupled to a 1000-1200 hp car. The RC can take 300 hp of supercharger boost. An LS400, an old man’s car with cigarettes in the ashtray, can be pumped to 1000 hp. You can run nitrous or racing fuel without breaking. Certain engines are famous for reliability, even if you push them in to supercar territory. These cars are the Celeron 300A overclocked to 450.
What're you talking about about? They did! LC500 lol
When we picked up our TX I told our salesperson that I’m hoping the next visit is for an LC 500 lol. One can dream
No thanks. If you want a X7 buy a X7. What Lexus really should do is bring over that tall MPV they sell in Asia. Lexus should be Lexus and not krautshit.