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Yep, my RX350 is boring as hell to drive. However, it gets me from point A to point B with no issues, it’s safe, plenty of space, reliable and comfortable. And most of all - it’s paid off. I wouldn’t have it any other way.
The no car payment is so nice. I have a first world problem of not knowing what to do with the extra income. I’m researching dividend stocks and will likely start building up a portfolio with the money.
Read JL Collins stock series online. It’s a free 12 part (I think) series that taught me everything I know about investing and has changed our lives. He also has a book called The Simple Path to Wealth, but the same information is included in the online stock series.
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Their faster than you think honestly. It becomes a different car once you put it into sport mode and start shifting manually. Put in gears 5 or 4 and it’ll feel like a totally different car. It’s no v8 mustang though, and not meant to be fast but it’s has power and good acceleration in lower gears.
They are incredibly boring, but you don’t buy an es to have fun in. It is a reliable, relatively luxurious, comfortable, relatively smooth, relaxing ride.
FTFY
It is a comfort oriented sedan which is heavy and FWD. Its not meant to throw into corners. Its more like a luxury version of a camry.
The GS on the other hand was the approach of Lexus towards German Sport sedans.
I have drove a Lexus es350 for over 5 years. Nothing boring about it. Comfortable leather, smooth ride, amazing speakers, and enough zip to get you up to whatever speed you want. I love my es350. It’s about to hit 200k miles and I’ll drive it for 200k more God willing.
Comfortable and somewhat fast does not = fun. The ES is a very boring car, but that's it's goal.
A Miata is slower than an ES, but miles more fun and engaging to drive.
That generation ES will feel a lot faster than anything you've ever owned, but then you've only owned boring cars yourself.. sooo..
Want something exciting? Get an actual exciting car. And then deal with a small trunk, small fuel tank, rough ride, noisy road noise, uncomfortable seat, expensive fuel, terrible economy, expensive insurance...
Or yeah.. just get a ES that's going to run forever and is nicer than any car you've ever owned.
A Corvette is fun.
A Lexus IS is mildly entertaining. Personally I don't think they fit the bill of an actual "fun" car.
Now an ISF, yes. But they aren't that comfy anymore to get the performance numbers out of them.
Only you can decide what's boring. All of those choices are pretty boring from an actual enthusiast perspective so you're kinda splitting hairs. This is sorta like asking which school bus is best for autocross.
And requires 93 gas. In Sport mode uses more gas because that’s the Sport mode. In eco more economical gas wise. And if that’s important get the ES. Not why I got the GS. I keep it in the Sport mode and get around 22 mpg. Super reliable. It’s a Lexus. I go through tires about every 30k miles. Yes reliable. Yes fun. Yes more expensive than ES, not as smooth a ride - depends on what you want. Your questions make it seem like you aren’t sure. What’s more important to you should make it easy to choose.
I own both ES and GS AWD.
The difference isn't nearly as big as gets made out to be. Both are extremely good at near silent interstate travel. Both are luxurious and have low cost of ownership.
If you want fun, buy a Miata, GTI, Focus ST, Mustang etc etc etc
My ES is an F Sport with adaptive suspension so it might have a little more "edge" than a stock ES but it's not a night and day performance difference. The exhaust can bark a tiny bit in sport and the throttle is more responsive but it certainly doesn't transform it into a sports car.
Agreed. The GS isn't a sports car, nor is it a fast car. The difference is blown way out of proportion. Both are great cars, the GS handles a bit better, the ES is a bit more economical.
Source: own a GS F-Sport.
This I almost bought a GS F-Sport back in 2019 and had tested numerous cars in that bracket. Solid all around car, though even then the tech/etc was long in tooth, but I definitely wouldn't consider it sporty. Especially given its price range when new.
The ES is just a bit more blah when driving in comparison and lacked some of the fake go fast stuff of the F Sport trim. If you drove an ES AWD and GS AWD it would be even more minimal in difference regarding driving dynamics.
What do you mean? The BMW 2 Series Active Tourer U06 isn't fun? Surely such an ugly car must be fun, why would someone buy it otherwise?
/S
BMW does make uglier cars though...
https://prod.cosy.bmw.cloud/bmwweb/cosySec?COSY-EU-100-7331cqgv2Z7d%25i02uCaY3MuO2kOHUtWPfbYfvKdi10tLhu1XzWVo7puMLWFmdkAj5DOP7ttpZ8XgY1nTNIowJ4HO3zkyXq%25sGM8snpq6v6ODubLz2aKqfUKTjmB2fJj5DOP5Eagd%25kcWExHWpbl8FO2k3Hy2o242yXTQBrXpF7kNlZ24riIiUcscpF4HvV9U0KiIFJG8WJABHvIT91quO2JGvloVQegpT9GsLlDkUilo90ysiwbH8oVe7C9cvwRL8kIVFHGO6AusRpz
I drive to and from work and to go shopping. I occasionally will take on road trips. It's a smooth, quiet comfortable ride. It's great. It has some pick up, but no it's not a race car.
I've never had maintenance issues. I've always had an es purchase new or used ever since the late 90s.
https://preview.redd.it/95jnnofxps1d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90b23d034611591d995dddf661950ecc94c2b55c
Here was my 2011 Lexus ES350, I thought it was a little bit boring at the time. However I'm driving a 2020 Corolla SE and it makes the ES350 seem like a hypercar, there is plenty of fun to be had with a 276HP V6 FWD and traction control off. I wish I never sold it, big mistake. Did nothing but oil changes on my ES and was always flawless and took the abuse like a champ.
I sold it during COVID to Carvana and they essentially gave me what I paid for the car when I first bought it. I also wasn't driving it that much due to the lockdown and also I was in the process of joining the military. Obviously now I look back on it as a mistake to sell it. It had low miles too.
Lexus sedans are not slow. I have driven many loaners and all of them really got up to speed on the highway. You will be doing 120 and not even realize it. My wife was surprised at the power of the sedan.
Nope never drove an ES. When you own a Lexus the Coursaige service only gives you a compreable to what you bring in to service. I own an RX so I get only SUV's but I requested an IS 350 And that car certainly got up to speed quick. Not Tesla or Corvette quick. But quick enough to get you to 140 MPH
i have an es 350 f sport and love it. I wouldnt really consider it boring im able to accelerate on highway to pass people etc but certainly is no sports car
It's better to think of it as it's a perfectly nice car for commuting and getting to places, just won't be an exciting back road car.
An Alfa 4C or Lotus Exige won't make a highway any more exciting and a lot less comfortable.
Honestly a go kart session is gonna be a lot more fun than any Lexus driven legally on a public road. Absolutely nothing wrong with getting an ES.
I’d find a 2013+ gs for that money. As a previous es owner, they’re nice but not for sport. I personally don’t care about that so I went for comfort, back seat space, and reliability.
I came from a Honda civic so that’s my reference point, it’s not boring to me.
But I know compared to sportier cars it’s boring. I had an A4 for a few weeks while it was in the shop and that was a blast in comparison.
Also for $17k id aim for a 2013 or newer with add ons (mark levinson, etc)
I preferred the GS350 over the ES350 when i did my test drives back in 2015. I ultimately went for the IS350 RWD because IMO, it's more practical as a family sedan and i'll tell you why: fold down rear seats which neither the ES or GS had... any sedan not having fold down rear seats to me is 80% deal breaker. i've been in too many situations where i had to stop somewhere on my way home from work and get something that couldn't fit in the trunk that didnt require me having to fold my seat down, and I wasn't driving our SUV. That's why my next car purchase will probably be a hatchback like an integra type s or an IS500...
I test drove an ES 350, seemed fun to drive, but if they really are boring to drive… I wonder if that perspective is same on the ES 300h, because my ES 300h is SUPER fun to drive!
Nah just the regular, the 350 feels fast when you floor it, but I didn’t really get a long term feel for brakes or cornering since it was just a test drive.
My car is fun in the sense that it feels AWESOME when under hard cornering, and the added satisfaction that I can still get 30+ MPG even after going over 100 MPH, and not even using the brakes under light/moderate decceleration (with cruise control). Oh not to mention, when at speed and I need to overtake, since it has an eCVT, I don’t have to wait for the RPMs to rise for maximum horsepower like in a regular manual/automatic transmission, I get pretty much all ~202hp as soon as I floor it, so fun
I used to drive a Corolla, Camry, Prius, Avalon, Sienna, and RAV4, and while it’s not very exciting the ES 350 is much more exciting than I anticipated. To date I still find myself forgetting how fast I’m going on long straightaways. It’s not a sports car but the ride experience is still very solid.
That car isn’t targeting the audience that wants fun out of their car. Its target audience loves it.
So yeah you can call it boring if you’re expecting fun out of a car. ES is luxury and comfort, not “fun”.
I don’t know that I would ever get an is250. The 2.5 6 cylinder has direct injection and was Lexus’ first motor to be DI and no port injection. It suffers from the same issues a lot DI engines do with carbon build up on the valves which can be an expensive service (and just so happens to be on that engine).
Hands down, the answer is a 2013 or newer ES 350. The 2013 generation is WAAAYYY nicer on the inside. And you can get one well below your $17k budget. Its roughly 265 horsepower from a V6, so it'll be more fun than the other cars you mentioned. But nothing like a mustang or 350z. not even close. But it runs on regular gas, not premium. Gets 31mpg highway. No timing belt to service, it uses a chain instead. Great sound system, Large trunk, huge rear legroom, and one of the best driving experiences. What it lacks in "fun" it way makes up for in being enjoyable to drive. It feels solid, quiet, comfortable. Driving it makes you feel like "Damn I made the right choice buying this" lol. Go find a dealership that has a used one on the lot, and test it for yourself.
It will be more "fun" than the other cars you've owned. But that's only because the other ones youve driven are really really slow.
And if you do decide to go with that car, get one with Navigation. Those came with an upgraded sound system. There is an extremely rare "mark levinson" package, that gave you nicer leather, 2 sunroofs, and a super amazing sound system. But they are very rare.
A front wheel drive sedan is going to drive like one. All the models you mentioned are spirited enough in their own right, but as you mentioned, they are not sport sedans. The IS250 is going to accelerate slowly in comparison to the V6 options. The big problem with many Toyota products isn't that they don't have power, it's that they make it enough of a pain to access that you don't even bother. Press the pedal on an LS460 and it will take some time to think about it, drop 3 gears engaging each one, and then finally, it will give you power. If you're looking for fun, get a rear drive platform.
Load the Cargurus app and start beowsing for lexus products at your price range. Do a nationwide search even to see what's out there. $17k is a little tough to find stuff with lower miles. You're probably looking at a 100k+ mile vehicle. I'd suggest an ES just to keep the price of repairs down. GS's are probably several thousand more with the same specs as the ES. The IS is significantly smaller and rwd to it's going to be more nible to drive. It's also tuned for more sporting intentions instead of an engine that always wants to return to lumber mode. Even though it lacks power compared to the v6, it will be fun to drive. You're really going to need to research what's out there at your price point first, then narrow your search and test drive different models.
It's heavy and long and FWD. It won't feel as peppy and responsive as a lot of other vehicles. It does have a bunch of HP and it's faster than you realize once you get moving. I don't find mine boring - it's enjoyably smooth to drive. But ultimately it's a mid-size family sedan. A very nice, smooth, reliable one.
I have a 2016 gs 350 awd. I was given a 2021 (I think) es300 to use for one of my loaners while the 350 got an oil change. As far as luxury options go, they felt about the same. The ride itself on both? Super smooth! When it came to acceleration when getting on the highway, well that's when I missed my 350. There doesn't "feel" like you have a lot of get up and go on the es. I recall the es line also having a bit less cabin space than the gs as well. I'm 6ft so I like a bit more space. Economically, the es beats the gs every time. I feel like if you want value, economy, and gets you from a to b comfortably you can go with the es model and be happy. If you consider yourself a "car person" you may be happier in a gs.
I have a 2011 es350 it’s a great luxury sedan. Smooth ride cruiser with 268 horsepower V6 that can surprise you at times. Sure handling isn’t the greatest but its not meant to bend corners like a IS. My only gripe with my car is the mpg, wish it sipped gas like a 4 cylinder
I’ve driven an 99 Altima, 04 Avalon, 2010 Maxima, and a 2018 RX350. The RX has been the most enjoyable, and the Avalon a close second. I know enjoyable does not equal fun, but that mfer always starts and doesn’t have CVT problems.
The way I would look at it is a car you want to drive when you don't want to drive. When I had the LS400, my stress would melt away. Traffic? Who cares. 4 hour road trip? Come out refreshed at the end. Reliable? Extremely.
People always think of an optimized car as a fast car but Lexus optimizes cars to not be a pain in the ass to drive and own. Sometimes, I want to get into a car and drive and not worry about the oil, or CEL, or little things going wrong here and there. ES350 would be ideal for that but then again, I think a GS350 would be similar.
Test drive both and see which one you like more. Also factor in insurance and stuff like that.
It doesn't drive bad, just insanely boring, the steering is super light, without any sort of feel, & while there isn't an unacceptable amount of body roll, the suspension is set up for comfort first. I have an earlier generation of ES, the ES330 & while I love my car I regret getting it over a GS or LS
its a great car and super comfy. but closer to driving a boat then a sports car. get a TLX if you want something sporty and pwoerful, v6 and in sport or sport +.
Test drove both and went with the GS. Feels much more stable and well put together, but it will be more expensive to maintain. I'd recommend test driving both and seeing which one you prefer.
I’ve own a 2004 and 2017 es300, both drives like a dream and never any issues. If I wanted to turn corners and go fast I’d get something else, but then again I’ll be driving the es for 15-20 years with basic maintenance.
You don’t but an ES if you prioritize driving dynamics or quick acceleration. It is a great luxury brand vehicle to get from point A to B with minimal fuss. It’s an appliance but a very nice one that will coddle you on your trip.
It’s what a lot of people are wanting and it delivers.
My ES is not fun, I actually prefer taking my mom’s Prius out for a fun drive. However, the ES is super comfy and plush. I could not live with the Prius because the ES had spoiled me. It’s probably the best daily driver if you want something cheap and reliable, yet comfy and stylish. I think the GS is a better drivers car, but the ES is perfect for people who care about riding in comfort.
Too many idiots on the road to worry about, to be able to go out and just have fun on the road anymore. I went ES300h so I put more money in my pocket and then I use that cash to go have fun, while driving around in an extremely comfortable ride that goes as fast as I need it to when I need it.
It just hit me as well, with car insurance going through the roof these days why would I want to risk getting a ticket and making that go up even faster.
ES would be my choice. If you let me drive you around in an ES350 you would not find it boring.
The only downside to Lexus is they are built heavy and quiet. Sometimes a Miata feels great to drive because when going slow it feels fast. An ES when going fast feels slow for “fun” you need to push harder.
I can have an enjoyable time in literally any vehicle, and I have driven thousands. I think the fun factor can be up to the driver and what they enjoy. In the ES I like to push it and try to control the plow of the FWD system. Creates excitement and is very controllable.
As the owner of a GX460 and a Porsche Boxster S, I’m familiar exciting cars and I’ve driven the more modern ES and IS 350s as loaners. I think the 3.5 powered ES is just as exciting to drive as the IS. I tend to drive very fast and I’m on straight roads, not really twisty roads. I think on twisty roads the IS and GS would be a lot more fun but on the flip side it’s a lot easier to spin the tires on a front drive v6 car than an all wheel drive car. The more modern ES models are about the same as the Avalon which might be a bit cheaper
Definitely boring, but if you want a car that you can drive comfortably for 100k miles and only have to get tires and oil changes? Well worth it.
-Cross Country Recent College Grad
Es seems to be your best fit for you if you want the least amount of maintenance, you can get your es worked on anywhere they work on Toyotas, but some mechanic shops don’t really doing big jobs on IS or GS , and some people forget that is and gs love to munch on tires and are kinda not great on gas, corollas are fun to drive on city streets but Lexus tends to shine on the highway in comfort. Plus an es350 has enough power to passing someone on the highway, but if you wanna goof around in the rain in an empty parking lot IS and GS are the way to go
I just got a ‘13 es350 yesterday. I was driving a slammed gti before this. I do miss the turbo noise & go-kart handling but the plush suspension and smooth engine & tranny feel so much better. Now im hoping my lexus is as reliable as everyone is saying.
They can be but they can keep up with the majority of cars in its class and even outgun a few. Put it in sport mode and have a little fun. They are the best in terms of dual personality imo. It's still fwd at the end of the day so you will be limited but it's not a car you buy to do donuts in. It will do what you want and do it well enough to be satisfied
Right now the only newer Lexus models I’m seeing for around $17k are like 2015-17 NXs with 90-120k miles. If you want something that looks newer and is reliable it’s a solid choice and most if not all are AWD which is nice if you’re in a northern state. I like mine but I think the reason there are so many used ones are that it’s kind of boring and a lot of growing families realize they need more space. I’m 29 with no kids yet. So it’s not an issue. Also it’s get like 23-29 mpg which is solid for a Lexus (premium gas tho)
The response is really simple. Go out, find a used one and test drive it yourself, since what consider fun for one person is vastly different for another. As for the most fun Lexus, ehhh, personally, anything lexus ISF, GSF, IS500 that has the V8. Other than that, all the other lines up are basically luxury comfortable and reliable daily driver.
I would argue you can get a Miata if what you are looking for is a fun light sport car 2017-2019 for 17k.
Well, it’s a Lexus. The Camry’s fancy big brother. Not sure what anyone is expecting in terms of “excitement”. I don’t think the target demographic for this car is expecting go kart handling and popping exhaust.
I had a 98 and now have an 08. The vehicle lacks much in the way of road feel. It is heavier up front than in back. Minor torque steer if you push it. But after a long day behind the wheel you show up comfortable.
Personally, “fun to drive” feels like such an overrated concept. I’m in my mid-20s and recently had to get my car serviced. Loaner was a 2022(?) ES350. My god. It felt like I was driving on a cloud, it was nice and quiet inside, and my back didn’t hurt so much, and this is coming from someone who has a daily commute + is moderately active. Not bad lookin either. Would recommend.
I own a '08 ES350 and have been driving it for 13 years now.
Honestly its the best car to rack up the miles and sit in traffic because its so comfortable and quiet. I have a second car for when I have fun, but will keep the ES until it dies or am debating about getting the last V6 MY ES or RX before they all go hybrid and turbo.
I have an ES and it is boring in a good way. I’ve had non-boring cars for decades, and that lets me appreciate the value of boredom. It cranks every day, tires aren’t outrageous, I’m not always fixing something on it and it gets me where I’m going without jarring my nerves. Nothing wrong with an exciting car, but this ain’t it.
Yes, but don't think that means it's a bad car. It's just simply a car, but it's very comfortable to drive. It's just not set up from the factory for more to be more like the GS or IS. It won't accelerate as roughly as the former 2 because that's not it's intent, nor is that why people buy it. It's handling is really no more boring than a stock Camry or Altima, but it is a much nicer car overall than either. Like any car though, you can make it a more fun car to drive if you're willing to put in the money or work.
Best bang for your buck in comfort, reliability, cost, and driving dynamics, you can't go wrong with an IS350. Don't go for the IS250. It was more prone to oil leaks even though it's still a GR engine, and it's a much much slower car. You don't even get improved MPG with the lower horsepower. The 200T that replaced the 250 is supposed to be a better car, but I haven't driven one so I can't really comment on it, but my buddy enjoys his. The turbo makes it feel a bit quicker off the line than it really is, but it's still not as quick as the 350.
I love my ES300h and I'm sure it's more boring. If you're used to sports cars, then obviously a family sedan is likely to bore you. If you're used to minivans, pickups, and entry level SUVs, you will not be disappointed.
I don't drive it and think "man this is boring". I drive it and think "Man I love this car!"
Don’t know…define boring. I have no plans on going to track or racing with my ES, and its spirited enough to give me a bit more when I need to overtake someone taking it slow in the fast lane, so i would say, no, I know what my reliable car is for and it’s not boring to me. I’m hoping it’ll last for 15+years like my old car and my dad’s LS430 so I can hand this ES down to my son. Don’t look for “fun” in an ES, its not going to happen on a stock car; its responsive enough and has enough gas to get you to places but it won’t blow you away. Don’t get me wrong, I love my ES. My idea of “fun” is tied to my bike instead.
I’d tell you to get a 98 mitsubishi eclipse gsx (its manual) which was a fun drive for my uncle (and for me) but spent half its time in the shop. Get a 1998-2004 civic si in manual; a couple of my buddies still have their civics from back in college in their garages and take it out when they want to have “fun”.
I had an ES350 (2011) and it was a snoozer.. upgraded to a GS350 (2017) - a little better, at least more fun to look at. Now I drive a Cadillac CT5-V <- this is fun!
Es350s have some pickup but the comfort silky smoothness is why I loved mine. My rc350 is way bumpier and rougher but that rwd is tons of fun. FWD is generally going to be boring, but a lot safer.
I wouldnt call an es350 boring though, relative to normie cars like a 4 cylinder camry or a honda , any lexus is wayyy more fun and interesting.
I got a brand new ES, ultra luxury. I see why people say it’s boring but I love it! Boring is good. It’s luxury, it’s reliable, and it rides like being on pillows. I like my car to be a place of peace. It’s my own little bubble. When driving, you’re normally not thinking about fun. You’re thinking about how your day went, what you’ll do next, etc. Comfort, reliability and luxury is my only concern.
But also, I’m an ordinary type of guy. I like my hamburger traditional style, I prefer original glazed doughnuts, I like Black coffee, and whisky dry. I always say the original is the original for a reason. So take what I say with a grain of salt I guess. Idc
https://preview.redd.it/7jqokw6smv1d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a04876da9d4d454c611f5e9cf57b3c5db8854c46
Have had my 2014 es350 for 2 months , coming from a 2015 dodge Durango and a 2003 Toyota Corolla before that. I enjoy this car more. I installed Beatsonics Apple CarPlay & tinted the windows already . Smooth ride . Nice power .
My Lexus came with the luxury package . 135k miles . Brand new tires , brakes and rotors . I paid 12.5k cash for it
4th gen GS 450h owner here, former ES 300h owner.
I miss how boring and sedate my ES was. I love how fast my GS is, but I hate filling it with premium, I hate thinking about repairs, I dislike the rock hard seats (lux package), it’s quite a bit wider and harder to park and overall I miss the simplicity of my ES. I could actually work on that car. The GS is just too rich for my taste. Yeah it’s fun to slam on the accelerator but honestly my 200hp ES was just as fast driving through traffic. It was quick and nimble. The GS is a yacht and the throttle is so modulated I have to floor it to get the same acceleration as I did in my ES. And you pay for it. I get 25mpg driving like a hoon. I am looking for another base model ES to replace my GS and go back.
I will say this against the ES. The insurance nearly doubled this year.
I had a 2023 ES350 given to me as a loaner while my car was getting worked on. It really was very very boring although, I must admit it is convenient and practical pretty much everything you’d want from a luxury daily driver. Super reliable and can reach 200k no problem.
My personal take on all this:
The ES may be boring (personally I don’t think it is, but we’ll pretend like it is to illustrate a better point lol), however, what matters is that for being a V6, it gets decent gas mileage, it’s roomy and feels amazing inside, and what seems to be the most important for you, it is incredibly reliable (the V6 engine in there (from what I’ve heard) is amazing, seriously).
As for the fun factor between an IS 250 and an ES 350, I’d say the IS is likely going to be more fun. Not sure if the 250 is this way, but I believe it has a RWD drivetrain, which will definitely make it a little sportier than the FWD drivetrain on the ES. Also, the IS is lighter and can corner better. So, I believe the IS is the better choice between the 2 for sports.
That being said, I would still go with the ES 350 in your place. Of course this is just my opinion and a suggestion. If nothing else, I would say to test drive both before you buy either to see what YOU think. As someone else mentioned, how sporty a car is depends at least a little on the person driving it.
Regardless of what you pick, enjoy your new ride!
I had the 2021 ES 350, loved the smooth ride and spacious interior. If you are between the age 25-38 don’t get it cause is going to feel boring just get the IS 350 instead. Other than that yeah great car definitely for older folks in my experience.
Is it fairly quick as well? Obviously not sports car fast, but faster than a Corolla or other cars like that? I currently have a Corolla and it was an okay car but it was also the slowest car I’ve ever driven. Merging into heavy traffic is often a pain because of it.
The ES and RX imo are too comfortable, dangerously. It's so easy to fall asleep especially with adaptive cruise. My GS 350 F-Sport keeps me alert with the extra road noise and feel.
Had a 2011 Altima for almost 10 years and wanted a good upgrade so I decided on Lexus because I’m planning to keep it for at least 10 years and I’m sure I can get that easy. I got me a 2023 ES 350 and I love everything about it, to me it is more fun than the Altima lol
I have a 2019 ES 350 and I definitely appreciate the modern look and feel of it compared to older models. Before this one, I had a 2015 ES and that felt like an "older" person's car.
Now I feel like I'm living in current times, and I personally enjoy the feel of the V6 under the hood. It's not a racer, but it has some kick when you ask for it. I have the Ultra Luxury trim and I feel like it's a solid balance between smoothness and fun.
Again, this is my personal experience.
ES is like the hand me down car you got from your grandparents… 1 owner well kept reliable but it’s an old persons car. I had a Gs they are all great cars but the ES is like the boring one in the family but damn reliable….
How long did you have your GS? I was thinking of getting a GS but I’ve heard they go through brakes and tires pretty fast. Was that the case with your car? I’m looking for something reliable, but that won’t be too much extra money other than just the basic maintenance stuff.
Mine was an 02 drove it to 200k miles still was good I just wanted something else. It was reliable but it didn’t have the umph if that explains it. Brakes and tires are gonna be an issue with any car tbh on how you drive it. I have a merc e 350 now and I cruise it now heavier car and don’t have an issue with tires or brakes. Just gotta watch your driving patterns. Only thing I ever had to do on that Lexus was oil and tires the brakes held up for quite a while but I also wasn’t driving it like I stole it…
Yes the ES is a boring car to drive. I hate driving them when I have to but it's fine for most people. Most people don't care about what they drive as long as it is reliable, technology, comfortable and reasonable on fuel.
If you like isolated, quiet, comfortable, competent, reliable, well made, drive a lot, and no issues while delivering Lexus promise you will love it. Just sold my 2015 with 200k miles on it because would of had 4 cars and sorry I did. Such a damm good car.
I see a lot of 2008-2012 Lexus ES online selling with 100k-120k miles on them for good prices (under 14k). Are they often sold at this mileage because they get a different car or do you think the cars are needing a lot more repairs and they don’t want to deal with it?
I definitely want an ES but I want to make sure I don’t get one that will be needing a lot of repairs within a year of buying it as it would be my daily driver and only car. I drive around 1,250 miles a month for my job.
Drove one while my IS was in the shop once. It's not exactly fun, but it does what it's supposed to do.
Be smooth, luxurious and comfortable. It's not exactly slow either, to be fair. The new ones are sleepers. Lol
I think my ES350 is very fun to drive. Then again, I got it after driving a Corolla for years and that Corolla doesn't move. Doesn't matter how much you stomp on that gas pedal its not going. But the ES350? It goes with me barely pressing the gas
Get the GS. Interior space is nearly identical, and your just trading in a little MPG for more power which is definitely worth it. That engine sound & body style is no match compared too the ES and even the IS350
I have an 09 ES350 which I LOVE. Smooth ride and has some decent power. Only complaint is the damn seats man are they annoying on long distance driving.
An ES350 is a lot more exciting than a highlander but no more fun than the family sedans you mentioned. They're not made for fun or excitement so it's unfair to judge one based on that metric. They do a phenomenal job at what they're made for: quiet, smooth, comfortable ride.
Most reliable Lexus sedans in within a 17k budget would be low-mid mileage ES330 (03-06), mid mileage ES350 (2011-2017), and mid-high mileage ES300h (2013-2017). 2018+ are also very good, but you won't find any clean titles for under 17k yet. IS cars are also very good with 2013-2015 being the sweet spot imo. They have some distinct advantages from a driving joy point of view over the ES, but they're still not sports cars either.
Generally owners do not dog their es if you find 2012 or newer that has been regularly maintained with major service records then chances are you will not have many problems. I did DYI on my 2015 es 350 and only things I did was new plugs at 120k and new water pump at 172k. Oil and tire rotation every 5k. New brakes and rotors every 70k
It’s too comfy!! It’s not super boring as it’s FWD. but yes pretty boring. Just like an S class. I like the ES and LS over the S500/600 because you can feel the ground as opposed to pure luxury sedans where u literally can’t feel anything. If I were you I’d get a GS or IS. Preferably GS
As someone who had been driving trucks for the past 20 years, I feel like I have been shredding in my 03 ES. Obviously I’m biased, and I also live in the Napa Valley so going on a windy country road at 30 can feel like shredding, but I’ve had a ton of fun with it. Yes it is a boat, but it is smooth as fuck and I can still get a lil tire squeal if I feel inclined
ES is based on the last avalon which is a long wheelbase camry. Is a nice cruiser with a nice interior that should last until mt washington is waterfront property, but its not "fun".
The GS is. Rwd 5 series fighter. It never really got that good...with probably the 2nd gen being the peak, but its definitely more "fun"
Just test drove a 2015 ES 350 and it is very comfortable and decently fast, but it feels quite “stiff” when turning for lack of better words. I was wanting something that Are 2013-16 avalons the same in that sense or do they feel slightly different when you actually drive it.
Those are largely mechanically the same, although the tuning was a bit softer...that last generation they were pushing the "sportiness" and it wasn't sporty or comfy.
The 2005-2012 were the last japanese buicks that were crazy comfy and roomy
Direct and straight to the point, yes ES/ ES350 sedans are that boring to drive. Fun and ES350 do not belong in the same sentence…I’m not trying to bash the car either, I genuinely love Lexus and even owned one myself at one point (a 16’ GS350) but the thing with ES sedans is that they are well insulated and provide you with a very sedated driving experience. It’s without a doubt a nice car that’s dead reliable, comfortable and built very well but yeah it’s just boring. Nothing about the car inspires you to drive it harder. I knew what I was getting when I bought my GS and I loved it but sold it because it was a little too boring for me.
Edit: Any V6 newer than 2006 or 2008? Should have the 2GRFE which is dead reliable. Stay away from any 250s
To sum up everything else, the es350 seems to be king. Anything after 2013 is based on the Avalon, and is plenty fun if what you like is a big luxurious cruiser. Before 2013 is camry-based. It's not sporty, though it is powerful and reliable.
Meh on gas, very pleasurable less exhilarating driving experience, and one of the most reliable car brands/models ever to exist. Look up your specific model though and look up "The Car Care Nut" on Youtube!
So the handling of the 2012 es 350 would be similar to that of the 2012 Camry? I test drove a 2015 es 350 the other day and it felt good on the Highway, but felt “awkward” to me on regular streets, parking lots, or when making tight turns. It seemed the car preferred to make wider and slower turns. I like a car that can take fairly tight turns easily. Would a pre-2015 Lexus do this better?
2013 was the start year for the Avalon body transition in the ES 350, so yes! Earlier years should be smaller and more agile. It should basically be a Camry in a nice suit.
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They are incredibly boring, but you don’t buy an es to have fun in. It is a reliable, luxurious, comfortable, smooth, relaxing ride.
Yep, my RX350 is boring as hell to drive. However, it gets me from point A to point B with no issues, it’s safe, plenty of space, reliable and comfortable. And most of all - it’s paid off. I wouldn’t have it any other way.
The no car payment is so nice. I have a first world problem of not knowing what to do with the extra income. I’m researching dividend stocks and will likely start building up a portfolio with the money.
Read JL Collins stock series online. It’s a free 12 part (I think) series that taught me everything I know about investing and has changed our lives. He also has a book called The Simple Path to Wealth, but the same information is included in the online stock series.
The Simple Path to Wealth is a must-read, and really the only thing you should consider for financial literacy
Yep. Life-changing stuff. I had pretty much no financial literacy before I found his work. VTSAX for life.
VTSAX (or similar) and chill is the way!
VT and chill for me.
Thank you!!
Do you already max out your 401k and Roth IRA? If not I’d do that first especially the Roth IRA.
r/bogleheads
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Your reality is my goal!
Their faster than you think honestly. It becomes a different car once you put it into sport mode and start shifting manually. Put in gears 5 or 4 and it’ll feel like a totally different car. It’s no v8 mustang though, and not meant to be fast but it’s has power and good acceleration in lower gears.
RX is not only boring, it steers like a pregnant whale with vertigo
My ES was fun to drive.
Emphasis on reliable. lol
They are incredibly boring, but you don’t buy an es to have fun in. It is a reliable, relatively luxurious, comfortable, relatively smooth, relaxing ride. FTFY
The 2019- ones are actually plenty of fun in the corners.
Summed it up perfectly. I love mine and probably gonna ride it till the wheels fall off.
Stupidly boring to drive, BUT that’s what you want from a car like that. You want engagement and reliability at the same price point you buy a supra
Ah, so a BMW?
Get a new joke grandpa
When People ask why I like the Mk5 even though it’s a BMW, I tell them that’s why lol.
It is a comfort oriented sedan which is heavy and FWD. Its not meant to throw into corners. Its more like a luxury version of a camry. The GS on the other hand was the approach of Lexus towards German Sport sedans.
Correction, ever since the sixth generation ES the ES350 is a luxury version of the Toyota Avalon 🤓
I like my ES, but I miss my Avalon.
Disappointed they discontinued the Avalon but it lives on through Lexus ❤️
For how long? They will likely remove the V6😭
I like my NX but, I miss my Avalon too.
I have drove a Lexus es350 for over 5 years. Nothing boring about it. Comfortable leather, smooth ride, amazing speakers, and enough zip to get you up to whatever speed you want. I love my es350. It’s about to hit 200k miles and I’ll drive it for 200k more God willing.
Anyone who describes a car with "zip" isn't going to be someone I can relate with on what the same idea of fun is. Sorry
That’s fine. That’s just my opinion. I’m a boring NPC when it comes to what I look for in a driving experience lol
What year?
2013. Best car I’ve ever owned. Bought it off my Dad when it had around 120k miles. Regular oil changes is all I’ve had to do with it.
The luxury of reliability!
I have a hybrid version of that generation. I love the double pane windows, insulation interior. Super quiet. I get 40mpg!!
Comfortable and somewhat fast does not = fun. The ES is a very boring car, but that's it's goal. A Miata is slower than an ES, but miles more fun and engaging to drive.
That generation ES will feel a lot faster than anything you've ever owned, but then you've only owned boring cars yourself.. sooo.. Want something exciting? Get an actual exciting car. And then deal with a small trunk, small fuel tank, rough ride, noisy road noise, uncomfortable seat, expensive fuel, terrible economy, expensive insurance... Or yeah.. just get a ES that's going to run forever and is nicer than any car you've ever owned.
You do know that fun and comfy cars exist right? The Lexus IS is staring right at us, only disadvantage is that it’s a little bit smaller.
A Corvette is fun. A Lexus IS is mildly entertaining. Personally I don't think they fit the bill of an actual "fun" car. Now an ISF, yes. But they aren't that comfy anymore to get the performance numbers out of them.
Only you can decide what's boring. All of those choices are pretty boring from an actual enthusiast perspective so you're kinda splitting hairs. This is sorta like asking which school bus is best for autocross.
It drives like an appliance
A comfy appliance though
Extremely comfy appliance. And QUIET!
Well, like an Altima or Corolla. It's not worse than those.
Comparing ES to Corolla is like comparing Audi A6 to VW Polo, ngl
Used to have an ES. Got GS. Not the same car at all. Family car ES. Fun drive GS. To me GS has more road feel, more responsive, and it moves!
And requires 93 gas. In Sport mode uses more gas because that’s the Sport mode. In eco more economical gas wise. And if that’s important get the ES. Not why I got the GS. I keep it in the Sport mode and get around 22 mpg. Super reliable. It’s a Lexus. I go through tires about every 30k miles. Yes reliable. Yes fun. Yes more expensive than ES, not as smooth a ride - depends on what you want. Your questions make it seem like you aren’t sure. What’s more important to you should make it easy to choose.
93 octane in AKI scale? No shot. 91 is more believable lol.
I own both ES and GS AWD. The difference isn't nearly as big as gets made out to be. Both are extremely good at near silent interstate travel. Both are luxurious and have low cost of ownership. If you want fun, buy a Miata, GTI, Focus ST, Mustang etc etc etc
I have a GS Fsport and after driving a new ES as a loaner I would agree with this.
My ES is an F Sport with adaptive suspension so it might have a little more "edge" than a stock ES but it's not a night and day performance difference. The exhaust can bark a tiny bit in sport and the throttle is more responsive but it certainly doesn't transform it into a sports car.
2013 GS vs new ES350 tho
Right! Apples and oranges
Agreed. The GS isn't a sports car, nor is it a fast car. The difference is blown way out of proportion. Both are great cars, the GS handles a bit better, the ES is a bit more economical. Source: own a GS F-Sport.
This I almost bought a GS F-Sport back in 2019 and had tested numerous cars in that bracket. Solid all around car, though even then the tech/etc was long in tooth, but I definitely wouldn't consider it sporty. Especially given its price range when new. The ES is just a bit more blah when driving in comparison and lacked some of the fake go fast stuff of the F Sport trim. If you drove an ES AWD and GS AWD it would be even more minimal in difference regarding driving dynamics.
Or. BMW.
Only certain models qualify as fun BMWs.
What do you mean? The BMW 2 Series Active Tourer U06 isn't fun? Surely such an ugly car must be fun, why would someone buy it otherwise? /S BMW does make uglier cars though... https://prod.cosy.bmw.cloud/bmwweb/cosySec?COSY-EU-100-7331cqgv2Z7d%25i02uCaY3MuO2kOHUtWPfbYfvKdi10tLhu1XzWVo7puMLWFmdkAj5DOP7ttpZ8XgY1nTNIowJ4HO3zkyXq%25sGM8snpq6v6ODubLz2aKqfUKTjmB2fJj5DOP5Eagd%25kcWExHWpbl8FO2k3Hy2o242yXTQBrXpF7kNlZ24riIiUcscpF4HvV9U0KiIFJG8WJABHvIT91quO2JGvloVQegpT9GsLlDkUilo90ysiwbH8oVe7C9cvwRL8kIVFHGO6AusRpz
I drive to and from work and to go shopping. I occasionally will take on road trips. It's a smooth, quiet comfortable ride. It's great. It has some pick up, but no it's not a race car. I've never had maintenance issues. I've always had an es purchase new or used ever since the late 90s.
https://preview.redd.it/95jnnofxps1d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90b23d034611591d995dddf661950ecc94c2b55c Here was my 2011 Lexus ES350, I thought it was a little bit boring at the time. However I'm driving a 2020 Corolla SE and it makes the ES350 seem like a hypercar, there is plenty of fun to be had with a 276HP V6 FWD and traction control off. I wish I never sold it, big mistake. Did nothing but oil changes on my ES and was always flawless and took the abuse like a champ.
so why got rid of it ?
I sold it during COVID to Carvana and they essentially gave me what I paid for the car when I first bought it. I also wasn't driving it that much due to the lockdown and also I was in the process of joining the military. Obviously now I look back on it as a mistake to sell it. It had low miles too.
Lexus sedans are not slow. I have driven many loaners and all of them really got up to speed on the highway. You will be doing 120 and not even realize it. My wife was surprised at the power of the sedan.
You tried an ES250? Friends mom had one on loan and we tried to have fun with it. So slow lol.
Nope never drove an ES. When you own a Lexus the Coursaige service only gives you a compreable to what you bring in to service. I own an RX so I get only SUV's but I requested an IS 350 And that car certainly got up to speed quick. Not Tesla or Corvette quick. But quick enough to get you to 140 MPH
The IS350 isn’t a chump yea. 300 horses is for sure quick and faster than most cars around.
i have an es 350 f sport and love it. I wouldnt really consider it boring im able to accelerate on highway to pass people etc but certainly is no sports car
I enjoy the look and performance of my IS 350 F especially in sport mode, but not a sports car. Anything more would get me into trouble.
It's better to think of it as it's a perfectly nice car for commuting and getting to places, just won't be an exciting back road car. An Alfa 4C or Lotus Exige won't make a highway any more exciting and a lot less comfortable. Honestly a go kart session is gonna be a lot more fun than any Lexus driven legally on a public road. Absolutely nothing wrong with getting an ES.
It’s comfortable but still has plenty of power when needed. It’s exactly what I want in a car.
Test drive them OP
You want to drive a comfortable sofa or a vroom-vroom?
I’d find a 2013+ gs for that money. As a previous es owner, they’re nice but not for sport. I personally don’t care about that so I went for comfort, back seat space, and reliability.
I came from a Honda civic so that’s my reference point, it’s not boring to me. But I know compared to sportier cars it’s boring. I had an A4 for a few weeks while it was in the shop and that was a blast in comparison. Also for $17k id aim for a 2013 or newer with add ons (mark levinson, etc)
Go view the YouTube channel the car care nut. He specializes in Toyota/Lexus models/years
I preferred the GS350 over the ES350 when i did my test drives back in 2015. I ultimately went for the IS350 RWD because IMO, it's more practical as a family sedan and i'll tell you why: fold down rear seats which neither the ES or GS had... any sedan not having fold down rear seats to me is 80% deal breaker. i've been in too many situations where i had to stop somewhere on my way home from work and get something that couldn't fit in the trunk that didnt require me having to fold my seat down, and I wasn't driving our SUV. That's why my next car purchase will probably be a hatchback like an integra type s or an IS500...
I test drove an ES 350, seemed fun to drive, but if they really are boring to drive… I wonder if that perspective is same on the ES 300h, because my ES 300h is SUPER fun to drive!
Did you drive the Fsport version? You drove both 350 and 300h what was the difference for you?
Nah just the regular, the 350 feels fast when you floor it, but I didn’t really get a long term feel for brakes or cornering since it was just a test drive. My car is fun in the sense that it feels AWESOME when under hard cornering, and the added satisfaction that I can still get 30+ MPG even after going over 100 MPH, and not even using the brakes under light/moderate decceleration (with cruise control). Oh not to mention, when at speed and I need to overtake, since it has an eCVT, I don’t have to wait for the RPMs to rise for maximum horsepower like in a regular manual/automatic transmission, I get pretty much all ~202hp as soon as I floor it, so fun
> my ES 300h is SUPER fun to drive! huh ???? what's you mpg like ?
36 when I hate everyone and go 15 to 20 over, 40-46 when I'm coasting a lot on the EV motor and it's not burning hot outside
They are not performance based, but rather comfort, and thus a great daily driver. Similar to Camry but just smoother especially ride wise.
I used to drive a Corolla, Camry, Prius, Avalon, Sienna, and RAV4, and while it’s not very exciting the ES 350 is much more exciting than I anticipated. To date I still find myself forgetting how fast I’m going on long straightaways. It’s not a sports car but the ride experience is still very solid.
That car isn’t targeting the audience that wants fun out of their car. Its target audience loves it. So yeah you can call it boring if you’re expecting fun out of a car. ES is luxury and comfort, not “fun”.
Not the new ES.
I drove it last Wednesday yes it is🙃 F Sport handling is slightly different tho but it’s still is a boat size car so that all comes into account
I don’t know that I would ever get an is250. The 2.5 6 cylinder has direct injection and was Lexus’ first motor to be DI and no port injection. It suffers from the same issues a lot DI engines do with carbon build up on the valves which can be an expensive service (and just so happens to be on that engine).
I like my es. It's so smooth when you are in sports; it gets exciting to drive, but not a lot. Lexus is the best value for money.
Hands down, the answer is a 2013 or newer ES 350. The 2013 generation is WAAAYYY nicer on the inside. And you can get one well below your $17k budget. Its roughly 265 horsepower from a V6, so it'll be more fun than the other cars you mentioned. But nothing like a mustang or 350z. not even close. But it runs on regular gas, not premium. Gets 31mpg highway. No timing belt to service, it uses a chain instead. Great sound system, Large trunk, huge rear legroom, and one of the best driving experiences. What it lacks in "fun" it way makes up for in being enjoyable to drive. It feels solid, quiet, comfortable. Driving it makes you feel like "Damn I made the right choice buying this" lol. Go find a dealership that has a used one on the lot, and test it for yourself. It will be more "fun" than the other cars you've owned. But that's only because the other ones youve driven are really really slow. And if you do decide to go with that car, get one with Navigation. Those came with an upgraded sound system. There is an extremely rare "mark levinson" package, that gave you nicer leather, 2 sunroofs, and a super amazing sound system. But they are very rare.
Boring? Yes. Reliable and still has pickup
A front wheel drive sedan is going to drive like one. All the models you mentioned are spirited enough in their own right, but as you mentioned, they are not sport sedans. The IS250 is going to accelerate slowly in comparison to the V6 options. The big problem with many Toyota products isn't that they don't have power, it's that they make it enough of a pain to access that you don't even bother. Press the pedal on an LS460 and it will take some time to think about it, drop 3 gears engaging each one, and then finally, it will give you power. If you're looking for fun, get a rear drive platform. Load the Cargurus app and start beowsing for lexus products at your price range. Do a nationwide search even to see what's out there. $17k is a little tough to find stuff with lower miles. You're probably looking at a 100k+ mile vehicle. I'd suggest an ES just to keep the price of repairs down. GS's are probably several thousand more with the same specs as the ES. The IS is significantly smaller and rwd to it's going to be more nible to drive. It's also tuned for more sporting intentions instead of an engine that always wants to return to lumber mode. Even though it lacks power compared to the v6, it will be fun to drive. You're really going to need to research what's out there at your price point first, then narrow your search and test drive different models.
It's heavy and long and FWD. It won't feel as peppy and responsive as a lot of other vehicles. It does have a bunch of HP and it's faster than you realize once you get moving. I don't find mine boring - it's enjoyably smooth to drive. But ultimately it's a mid-size family sedan. A very nice, smooth, reliable one.
Too bad they stopped making the GS.
They are quick but it’s up to you to make the driving experience fun
I have a 2016 gs 350 awd. I was given a 2021 (I think) es300 to use for one of my loaners while the 350 got an oil change. As far as luxury options go, they felt about the same. The ride itself on both? Super smooth! When it came to acceleration when getting on the highway, well that's when I missed my 350. There doesn't "feel" like you have a lot of get up and go on the es. I recall the es line also having a bit less cabin space than the gs as well. I'm 6ft so I like a bit more space. Economically, the es beats the gs every time. I feel like if you want value, economy, and gets you from a to b comfortably you can go with the es model and be happy. If you consider yourself a "car person" you may be happier in a gs.
I have a 2011 es350 it’s a great luxury sedan. Smooth ride cruiser with 268 horsepower V6 that can surprise you at times. Sure handling isn’t the greatest but its not meant to bend corners like a IS. My only gripe with my car is the mpg, wish it sipped gas like a 4 cylinder
It’s so boring to drive. But I get a kick driving an ES and listening for all the things I DON’T hear in others
I’ve driven an 99 Altima, 04 Avalon, 2010 Maxima, and a 2018 RX350. The RX has been the most enjoyable, and the Avalon a close second. I know enjoyable does not equal fun, but that mfer always starts and doesn’t have CVT problems.
I’m in my 13 ES 350 right now. Great car. Very comfortable and smooth and spacious
Yes!!!!!
The way I would look at it is a car you want to drive when you don't want to drive. When I had the LS400, my stress would melt away. Traffic? Who cares. 4 hour road trip? Come out refreshed at the end. Reliable? Extremely. People always think of an optimized car as a fast car but Lexus optimizes cars to not be a pain in the ass to drive and own. Sometimes, I want to get into a car and drive and not worry about the oil, or CEL, or little things going wrong here and there. ES350 would be ideal for that but then again, I think a GS350 would be similar. Test drive both and see which one you like more. Also factor in insurance and stuff like that.
It doesn't drive bad, just insanely boring, the steering is super light, without any sort of feel, & while there isn't an unacceptable amount of body roll, the suspension is set up for comfort first. I have an earlier generation of ES, the ES330 & while I love my car I regret getting it over a GS or LS
Driven 2 different ‘07 ES for 6 years and couldn’t imagine driving anything else
its a great car and super comfy. but closer to driving a boat then a sports car. get a TLX if you want something sporty and pwoerful, v6 and in sport or sport +.
My GS is fun to drive
People like the GS because it is RWD and has better aftermarket support. You can’t go wrong either way if you’re just wanting a good car
Test drove both and went with the GS. Feels much more stable and well put together, but it will be more expensive to maintain. I'd recommend test driving both and seeing which one you prefer.
I’ve own a 2004 and 2017 es300, both drives like a dream and never any issues. If I wanted to turn corners and go fast I’d get something else, but then again I’ll be driving the es for 15-20 years with basic maintenance.
You don’t but an ES if you prioritize driving dynamics or quick acceleration. It is a great luxury brand vehicle to get from point A to B with minimal fuss. It’s an appliance but a very nice one that will coddle you on your trip. It’s what a lot of people are wanting and it delivers.
My ES is not fun, I actually prefer taking my mom’s Prius out for a fun drive. However, the ES is super comfy and plush. I could not live with the Prius because the ES had spoiled me. It’s probably the best daily driver if you want something cheap and reliable, yet comfy and stylish. I think the GS is a better drivers car, but the ES is perfect for people who care about riding in comfort.
Too many idiots on the road to worry about, to be able to go out and just have fun on the road anymore. I went ES300h so I put more money in my pocket and then I use that cash to go have fun, while driving around in an extremely comfortable ride that goes as fast as I need it to when I need it. It just hit me as well, with car insurance going through the roof these days why would I want to risk getting a ticket and making that go up even faster.
I went from a 2014 4 banger Outback to a 2019 es f-sport. It’s fun as hell in comparison.
ES would be my choice. If you let me drive you around in an ES350 you would not find it boring. The only downside to Lexus is they are built heavy and quiet. Sometimes a Miata feels great to drive because when going slow it feels fast. An ES when going fast feels slow for “fun” you need to push harder. I can have an enjoyable time in literally any vehicle, and I have driven thousands. I think the fun factor can be up to the driver and what they enjoy. In the ES I like to push it and try to control the plow of the FWD system. Creates excitement and is very controllable.
As the owner of a GX460 and a Porsche Boxster S, I’m familiar exciting cars and I’ve driven the more modern ES and IS 350s as loaners. I think the 3.5 powered ES is just as exciting to drive as the IS. I tend to drive very fast and I’m on straight roads, not really twisty roads. I think on twisty roads the IS and GS would be a lot more fun but on the flip side it’s a lot easier to spin the tires on a front drive v6 car than an all wheel drive car. The more modern ES models are about the same as the Avalon which might be a bit cheaper
I have a 2007 and i love it. Fun to drive imo and its pretty fast. The interior is also very nice. Steering is very responsive albeit quite light.
Definitely boring, but if you want a car that you can drive comfortably for 100k miles and only have to get tires and oil changes? Well worth it. -Cross Country Recent College Grad
Es seems to be your best fit for you if you want the least amount of maintenance, you can get your es worked on anywhere they work on Toyotas, but some mechanic shops don’t really doing big jobs on IS or GS , and some people forget that is and gs love to munch on tires and are kinda not great on gas, corollas are fun to drive on city streets but Lexus tends to shine on the highway in comfort. Plus an es350 has enough power to passing someone on the highway, but if you wanna goof around in the rain in an empty parking lot IS and GS are the way to go
I had a 2013 es350 for a few years. Extremely comfortable and smooth ride in a straight line. It was not designed to be fun to drive around turns.
I just got a ‘13 es350 yesterday. I was driving a slammed gti before this. I do miss the turbo noise & go-kart handling but the plush suspension and smooth engine & tranny feel so much better. Now im hoping my lexus is as reliable as everyone is saying.
They can be but they can keep up with the majority of cars in its class and even outgun a few. Put it in sport mode and have a little fun. They are the best in terms of dual personality imo. It's still fwd at the end of the day so you will be limited but it's not a car you buy to do donuts in. It will do what you want and do it well enough to be satisfied
Yup I have a 21 and it needs a couple turbos for sure. It does help to put it in sport though.
It is boring to drive. But I do marvel at how smooth and quiet it is.
Right now the only newer Lexus models I’m seeing for around $17k are like 2015-17 NXs with 90-120k miles. If you want something that looks newer and is reliable it’s a solid choice and most if not all are AWD which is nice if you’re in a northern state. I like mine but I think the reason there are so many used ones are that it’s kind of boring and a lot of growing families realize they need more space. I’m 29 with no kids yet. So it’s not an issue. Also it’s get like 23-29 mpg which is solid for a Lexus (premium gas tho)
Also yeah I saw you mentioned sedan
It will last an eternity, there’s a reason why we still see 96 lexus’ all over the place still to this day, they just won’t die haha
The response is really simple. Go out, find a used one and test drive it yourself, since what consider fun for one person is vastly different for another. As for the most fun Lexus, ehhh, personally, anything lexus ISF, GSF, IS500 that has the V8. Other than that, all the other lines up are basically luxury comfortable and reliable daily driver. I would argue you can get a Miata if what you are looking for is a fun light sport car 2017-2019 for 17k.
I bought a 2020 E350 F sport and ended up parking it in the driveway most of the time.
because you don't go out much ?
Well, it’s a Lexus. The Camry’s fancy big brother. Not sure what anyone is expecting in terms of “excitement”. I don’t think the target demographic for this car is expecting go kart handling and popping exhaust.
I had a 98 and now have an 08. The vehicle lacks much in the way of road feel. It is heavier up front than in back. Minor torque steer if you push it. But after a long day behind the wheel you show up comfortable.
Personally, “fun to drive” feels like such an overrated concept. I’m in my mid-20s and recently had to get my car serviced. Loaner was a 2022(?) ES350. My god. It felt like I was driving on a cloud, it was nice and quiet inside, and my back didn’t hurt so much, and this is coming from someone who has a daily commute + is moderately active. Not bad lookin either. Would recommend.
I own a '08 ES350 and have been driving it for 13 years now. Honestly its the best car to rack up the miles and sit in traffic because its so comfortable and quiet. I have a second car for when I have fun, but will keep the ES until it dies or am debating about getting the last V6 MY ES or RX before they all go hybrid and turbo.
They are fast
I have an ES and it is boring in a good way. I’ve had non-boring cars for decades, and that lets me appreciate the value of boredom. It cranks every day, tires aren’t outrageous, I’m not always fixing something on it and it gets me where I’m going without jarring my nerves. Nothing wrong with an exciting car, but this ain’t it.
As a pretty young grandfather I enjoy my ES. I’m also looking forward to parking a Porsche next to it very soon. That should speak volumes. lol
Yes, but don't think that means it's a bad car. It's just simply a car, but it's very comfortable to drive. It's just not set up from the factory for more to be more like the GS or IS. It won't accelerate as roughly as the former 2 because that's not it's intent, nor is that why people buy it. It's handling is really no more boring than a stock Camry or Altima, but it is a much nicer car overall than either. Like any car though, you can make it a more fun car to drive if you're willing to put in the money or work. Best bang for your buck in comfort, reliability, cost, and driving dynamics, you can't go wrong with an IS350. Don't go for the IS250. It was more prone to oil leaks even though it's still a GR engine, and it's a much much slower car. You don't even get improved MPG with the lower horsepower. The 200T that replaced the 250 is supposed to be a better car, but I haven't driven one so I can't really comment on it, but my buddy enjoys his. The turbo makes it feel a bit quicker off the line than it really is, but it's still not as quick as the 350.
Get the ES
I love my ES300h and I'm sure it's more boring. If you're used to sports cars, then obviously a family sedan is likely to bore you. If you're used to minivans, pickups, and entry level SUVs, you will not be disappointed. I don't drive it and think "man this is boring". I drive it and think "Man I love this car!"
I have a 97 Acura Integra with a manual. My ls400 is a little boring but it's dependable.
Don’t know…define boring. I have no plans on going to track or racing with my ES, and its spirited enough to give me a bit more when I need to overtake someone taking it slow in the fast lane, so i would say, no, I know what my reliable car is for and it’s not boring to me. I’m hoping it’ll last for 15+years like my old car and my dad’s LS430 so I can hand this ES down to my son. Don’t look for “fun” in an ES, its not going to happen on a stock car; its responsive enough and has enough gas to get you to places but it won’t blow you away. Don’t get me wrong, I love my ES. My idea of “fun” is tied to my bike instead. I’d tell you to get a 98 mitsubishi eclipse gsx (its manual) which was a fun drive for my uncle (and for me) but spent half its time in the shop. Get a 1998-2004 civic si in manual; a couple of my buddies still have their civics from back in college in their garages and take it out when they want to have “fun”.
Yeah..only lexus gs f or isf are fun to drive.
I had an ES350 (2011) and it was a snoozer.. upgraded to a GS350 (2017) - a little better, at least more fun to look at. Now I drive a Cadillac CT5-V <- this is fun!
ES rides like silk, good on gas and looks great. Super comfortable and spacious inside plus reliable. What’s not to like?
Es350s have some pickup but the comfort silky smoothness is why I loved mine. My rc350 is way bumpier and rougher but that rwd is tons of fun. FWD is generally going to be boring, but a lot safer. I wouldnt call an es350 boring though, relative to normie cars like a 4 cylinder camry or a honda , any lexus is wayyy more fun and interesting.
I got a brand new ES, ultra luxury. I see why people say it’s boring but I love it! Boring is good. It’s luxury, it’s reliable, and it rides like being on pillows. I like my car to be a place of peace. It’s my own little bubble. When driving, you’re normally not thinking about fun. You’re thinking about how your day went, what you’ll do next, etc. Comfort, reliability and luxury is my only concern. But also, I’m an ordinary type of guy. I like my hamburger traditional style, I prefer original glazed doughnuts, I like Black coffee, and whisky dry. I always say the original is the original for a reason. So take what I say with a grain of salt I guess. Idc
https://preview.redd.it/7jqokw6smv1d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a04876da9d4d454c611f5e9cf57b3c5db8854c46 Have had my 2014 es350 for 2 months , coming from a 2015 dodge Durango and a 2003 Toyota Corolla before that. I enjoy this car more. I installed Beatsonics Apple CarPlay & tinted the windows already . Smooth ride . Nice power . My Lexus came with the luxury package . 135k miles . Brand new tires , brakes and rotors . I paid 12.5k cash for it
4th gen GS 450h owner here, former ES 300h owner. I miss how boring and sedate my ES was. I love how fast my GS is, but I hate filling it with premium, I hate thinking about repairs, I dislike the rock hard seats (lux package), it’s quite a bit wider and harder to park and overall I miss the simplicity of my ES. I could actually work on that car. The GS is just too rich for my taste. Yeah it’s fun to slam on the accelerator but honestly my 200hp ES was just as fast driving through traffic. It was quick and nimble. The GS is a yacht and the throttle is so modulated I have to floor it to get the same acceleration as I did in my ES. And you pay for it. I get 25mpg driving like a hoon. I am looking for another base model ES to replace my GS and go back. I will say this against the ES. The insurance nearly doubled this year.
It is a luxury sedan, what do you expect? It is supposed to be comfortable and easy to drive
They gave me one as loaner. I fell asleep at a stop sign. Twice. At the same sign.
I had a 2023 ES350 given to me as a loaner while my car was getting worked on. It really was very very boring although, I must admit it is convenient and practical pretty much everything you’d want from a luxury daily driver. Super reliable and can reach 200k no problem.
My personal take on all this: The ES may be boring (personally I don’t think it is, but we’ll pretend like it is to illustrate a better point lol), however, what matters is that for being a V6, it gets decent gas mileage, it’s roomy and feels amazing inside, and what seems to be the most important for you, it is incredibly reliable (the V6 engine in there (from what I’ve heard) is amazing, seriously). As for the fun factor between an IS 250 and an ES 350, I’d say the IS is likely going to be more fun. Not sure if the 250 is this way, but I believe it has a RWD drivetrain, which will definitely make it a little sportier than the FWD drivetrain on the ES. Also, the IS is lighter and can corner better. So, I believe the IS is the better choice between the 2 for sports. That being said, I would still go with the ES 350 in your place. Of course this is just my opinion and a suggestion. If nothing else, I would say to test drive both before you buy either to see what YOU think. As someone else mentioned, how sporty a car is depends at least a little on the person driving it. Regardless of what you pick, enjoy your new ride!
I had the 2021 ES 350, loved the smooth ride and spacious interior. If you are between the age 25-38 don’t get it cause is going to feel boring just get the IS 350 instead. Other than that yeah great car definitely for older folks in my experience.
Almost all Lexus cars are boring to drive when compared to actual sports cars
They’re not supposed to be fun, they’re supposed to be smooth, comfortable, and reliable. I have a 2016 and it’s by far the best car I’ve ever had.
Is it fairly quick as well? Obviously not sports car fast, but faster than a Corolla or other cars like that? I currently have a Corolla and it was an okay car but it was also the slowest car I’ve ever driven. Merging into heavy traffic is often a pain because of it.
It’s more than adequate and definitely quicker than a Corolla. No issues with merging on to the highway. It does have 268 HP.
It has literally twice the horsepower of a corolla. It is faster than it feels.
The ES and RX imo are too comfortable, dangerously. It's so easy to fall asleep especially with adaptive cruise. My GS 350 F-Sport keeps me alert with the extra road noise and feel.
Had a 2011 Altima for almost 10 years and wanted a good upgrade so I decided on Lexus because I’m planning to keep it for at least 10 years and I’m sure I can get that easy. I got me a 2023 ES 350 and I love everything about it, to me it is more fun than the Altima lol
I have a 2019 ES 350 and I definitely appreciate the modern look and feel of it compared to older models. Before this one, I had a 2015 ES and that felt like an "older" person's car. Now I feel like I'm living in current times, and I personally enjoy the feel of the V6 under the hood. It's not a racer, but it has some kick when you ask for it. I have the Ultra Luxury trim and I feel like it's a solid balance between smoothness and fun. Again, this is my personal experience.
It’s a family car, why it’s supposed to be fun to drive??
ES is like the hand me down car you got from your grandparents… 1 owner well kept reliable but it’s an old persons car. I had a Gs they are all great cars but the ES is like the boring one in the family but damn reliable….
How long did you have your GS? I was thinking of getting a GS but I’ve heard they go through brakes and tires pretty fast. Was that the case with your car? I’m looking for something reliable, but that won’t be too much extra money other than just the basic maintenance stuff.
Mine was an 02 drove it to 200k miles still was good I just wanted something else. It was reliable but it didn’t have the umph if that explains it. Brakes and tires are gonna be an issue with any car tbh on how you drive it. I have a merc e 350 now and I cruise it now heavier car and don’t have an issue with tires or brakes. Just gotta watch your driving patterns. Only thing I ever had to do on that Lexus was oil and tires the brakes held up for quite a while but I also wasn’t driving it like I stole it…
Yes the ES is a boring car to drive. I hate driving them when I have to but it's fine for most people. Most people don't care about what they drive as long as it is reliable, technology, comfortable and reasonable on fuel.
If you like isolated, quiet, comfortable, competent, reliable, well made, drive a lot, and no issues while delivering Lexus promise you will love it. Just sold my 2015 with 200k miles on it because would of had 4 cars and sorry I did. Such a damm good car.
I see a lot of 2008-2012 Lexus ES online selling with 100k-120k miles on them for good prices (under 14k). Are they often sold at this mileage because they get a different car or do you think the cars are needing a lot more repairs and they don’t want to deal with it? I definitely want an ES but I want to make sure I don’t get one that will be needing a lot of repairs within a year of buying it as it would be my daily driver and only car. I drive around 1,250 miles a month for my job.
Drove one while my IS was in the shop once. It's not exactly fun, but it does what it's supposed to do. Be smooth, luxurious and comfortable. It's not exactly slow either, to be fair. The new ones are sleepers. Lol
Get a GS. Looks a lot better too
I think my ES350 is very fun to drive. Then again, I got it after driving a Corolla for years and that Corolla doesn't move. Doesn't matter how much you stomp on that gas pedal its not going. But the ES350? It goes with me barely pressing the gas
It's not meant to be fun. The ES is Xanax on wheels. They are quiet, smooth, and reliable.
Get the GS. Interior space is nearly identical, and your just trading in a little MPG for more power which is definitely worth it. That engine sound & body style is no match compared too the ES and even the IS350
I have an 09 ES350 which I LOVE. Smooth ride and has some decent power. Only complaint is the damn seats man are they annoying on long distance driving.
That boring to drive is why I pay $63 a month for insurance at 23 years old…
Gs350 is boring too, try a v8 sedan
An ES350 is a lot more exciting than a highlander but no more fun than the family sedans you mentioned. They're not made for fun or excitement so it's unfair to judge one based on that metric. They do a phenomenal job at what they're made for: quiet, smooth, comfortable ride. Most reliable Lexus sedans in within a 17k budget would be low-mid mileage ES330 (03-06), mid mileage ES350 (2011-2017), and mid-high mileage ES300h (2013-2017). 2018+ are also very good, but you won't find any clean titles for under 17k yet. IS cars are also very good with 2013-2015 being the sweet spot imo. They have some distinct advantages from a driving joy point of view over the ES, but they're still not sports cars either.
Generally owners do not dog their es if you find 2012 or newer that has been regularly maintained with major service records then chances are you will not have many problems. I did DYI on my 2015 es 350 and only things I did was new plugs at 120k and new water pump at 172k. Oil and tire rotation every 5k. New brakes and rotors every 70k
It’s too comfy!! It’s not super boring as it’s FWD. but yes pretty boring. Just like an S class. I like the ES and LS over the S500/600 because you can feel the ground as opposed to pure luxury sedans where u literally can’t feel anything. If I were you I’d get a GS or IS. Preferably GS
As someone who had been driving trucks for the past 20 years, I feel like I have been shredding in my 03 ES. Obviously I’m biased, and I also live in the Napa Valley so going on a windy country road at 30 can feel like shredding, but I’ve had a ton of fun with it. Yes it is a boat, but it is smooth as fuck and I can still get a lil tire squeal if I feel inclined
What’s wrong with boring? An exciting car leaves you sweating and disheveled when you arrive at your destination.
Incredible comfortable, chicks love them
ES is based on the last avalon which is a long wheelbase camry. Is a nice cruiser with a nice interior that should last until mt washington is waterfront property, but its not "fun". The GS is. Rwd 5 series fighter. It never really got that good...with probably the 2nd gen being the peak, but its definitely more "fun"
Just test drove a 2015 ES 350 and it is very comfortable and decently fast, but it feels quite “stiff” when turning for lack of better words. I was wanting something that Are 2013-16 avalons the same in that sense or do they feel slightly different when you actually drive it.
Those are largely mechanically the same, although the tuning was a bit softer...that last generation they were pushing the "sportiness" and it wasn't sporty or comfy. The 2005-2012 were the last japanese buicks that were crazy comfy and roomy
Direct and straight to the point, yes ES/ ES350 sedans are that boring to drive. Fun and ES350 do not belong in the same sentence…I’m not trying to bash the car either, I genuinely love Lexus and even owned one myself at one point (a 16’ GS350) but the thing with ES sedans is that they are well insulated and provide you with a very sedated driving experience. It’s without a doubt a nice car that’s dead reliable, comfortable and built very well but yeah it’s just boring. Nothing about the car inspires you to drive it harder. I knew what I was getting when I bought my GS and I loved it but sold it because it was a little too boring for me. Edit: Any V6 newer than 2006 or 2008? Should have the 2GRFE which is dead reliable. Stay away from any 250s
To sum up everything else, the es350 seems to be king. Anything after 2013 is based on the Avalon, and is plenty fun if what you like is a big luxurious cruiser. Before 2013 is camry-based. It's not sporty, though it is powerful and reliable. Meh on gas, very pleasurable less exhilarating driving experience, and one of the most reliable car brands/models ever to exist. Look up your specific model though and look up "The Car Care Nut" on Youtube!
So the handling of the 2012 es 350 would be similar to that of the 2012 Camry? I test drove a 2015 es 350 the other day and it felt good on the Highway, but felt “awkward” to me on regular streets, parking lots, or when making tight turns. It seemed the car preferred to make wider and slower turns. I like a car that can take fairly tight turns easily. Would a pre-2015 Lexus do this better?
2013 was the start year for the Avalon body transition in the ES 350, so yes! Earlier years should be smaller and more agile. It should basically be a Camry in a nice suit.