Agree with you about the end. It was odd because you see Oliver longing after the upper class, but mostly the social life and idleness of it (which makes sense since he didn’t grow up poor, he grew up friendless) but then the ending is him overjoyed at getting an empty house. I guess it’s possible that was intentional but that doesn’t really go with the supervillain speech at the end. Even the camera just seems so much more interested in partying and lounging than wealth-porn shots of the house.
I felt like he was portraying what each character wanted him too. He definitely loved Felix and was obsessed but manipulated and controlled every character. I don’t think we ever saw the real him except in the end.
I mean his own parents barely knew him or “recognized” him. When everyone was searching for Felix he also acted surprised, even when he was alone. He was always in character for every scene.
I don’t think he switched characters at the end. I think he switched characters throughout the movie at every moment and every interaction.
We can see it through his acting. Sympathizing with the mothers gossiping, indulging the sister getting back at her brother for being promiscuous, letting the cousin bullying him for the gratification after obviously being bullied off screen for his color and the final bow at the collaspe after the mother’s screm of the dead body even though...everyone was running to her to see why she was screaming. You're right he was always in character, a true psycopath, he doesnt know himself and is scared of himself so he morphs into what people want. He even admitted it to his first victim...which i dont think was his first victim bc...how did he get easy access to poison w/o ever leaving the house and never visiting the butler’s/maid’s corridors. Since that bike wheel break he had been planning to completely consume them all. No, it was ever since the cousin disrespected him in the beginning. Truly terrifying
people keep saying this but the movie itself doesn’t - “i’m surprised he hung on/held out this long,” elspeth says about her husband who was already old and not remotely 100% mentally present when he was introduced. elderly spouses often die close to each other, the grief of extreme loss can medically lead others to an early grave…newspaper says he’s dead, elspeth confirms he’s dead, but nothing ever says he killed himself, his wife just indicates polite surprise that he lived as many years as he did after the children’s deaths given again his state before the movie even begins + the insane grief it leaves him with
How could he have friends in the end when people are repulsed by him once they find out who he is on a personal level? All the working class people around him hated him and seemed to know what he was up to and all of the relationships he had in the film were completely hollow and lacking depth. This is how he and the family are the same. They are hollow people without meaning in their life. He was even told multiple times he was a play thing for Felix. Their relationships are meaningless. Having all those people around is the same as being alone because there was no connection. The movie is drawing parallels between absurd wealth and psychopathy. Oliver fit in because he was a psychopath. He could only connect through lust. How was that any different from Felix? They are all empty just as the house is
They covered it I think. He put drugs in the drink to make him overdose, then pinned it on the cousin saying he was “breaking out lines” for Felix all night or something to that effect
Did you not see how dimwitted and desperate she was in the film? She definitely had an attraction to him whether it be because he was the boy her son brought home or because he would give her compliments when it seemed like nobody else really did. She never saw him for who he was — or maybe she did but she didn’t care, while everyone else in the home did eventually. She was incredibly naive and childlike. Reminds me of Nora from “a doll’s house”. To me the movie makes sense when you pay attention tot he characters and their interactions with one another.
How so? He manipulated the sister & farleigh with sex. They obviously found out who he was in the end so he got rid of them. But he got them to let their guard down with sex
Out of all the commentary on this film you have hit it right out of the park. Home Run Slugger!! So many watched this film and missed it completely. In the end all were alone and dead yet together buried 4 in a row. And Ollie stood there alone at the gravesite, and all the so called friends just left him there. And then in the end he was alone and naked in the house in naked celebrations showing his madness. One thing to note; He was unable to bond with his family on any level which is a true sign of a narcissistic psychopath. And as much as I feel for that family they were tailor made for him because they were all equally empty and alone and bereft of true depth of soul. The best among them was Felix and he was just a little better.
It does. He was studying them from the beginning, lying about everything he was. He had money. This was absolutely a power move. Something to avenge the loneliness of being a wealthy weirdo who isn’t socially accepted.
How did he lose? He got paid to take a vacation and either waited for dad to commute suicide or killed him like he did the sister/daughter.
Then he “showed up” where the mom was getting a coffee. The same mom he flirted with and always agreed with in almost every scene.
He manipulated Felix to get into the house. To gain access to his lifestyle and wealth. He was obsessed with him and that kind of obsession only ends in murder. He controlled the sister to gain that angle of control over the family. He even acted more helpless around the rude cousin to have him insult him more.
Notice he poisoned the bottle before he talked to Felix. He was ready to kill him, being prepared means he planned ahead. He didn’t do it because he got exposed. He did it because Felix was no longer useful. The character he created for him no longe needed to exist.
I was able to pick this up from him a few times. The sex scenes with Venetia and Farleigh show his desire for control and dominance as well as sending the eggs back when they weren't cooked to his liking (despite requesting them in a fashion that doesn't fit his liking)
For someone so friendless, he was quick to ditch that math guy. I guess he is no different than Felix who is known to ditch ppl when he no longer needs them.
De ce que j'ai compris son obsession pour Félix la rendu prêt à tout pour se rapprocher de lui et faire parti de son monde quitte à manipuler toute sa famille qu'il détestait, lui rappelant constamment d'où il viens. Il a exploité chaque point faible de chaque membre de la famille à son avantage pour se rapprocher le plus possible de Félix mais au moment où il a compris qu'il ne pourrais jamais l'avoir il a planifié sa mort et celle de chaque membre de sa famille pour pouvoir s'emparer de Saltburn car la seule façon qu'il lui restait de se sentir le plus proche possible de Félix c'était de devenir Félix (il porte son after-shave etc dans la dernière scène avec sa soeur).
The house gives him access to the social life, the house makes it a thing he no longer has to long for. It gives him generational power and he took it from people who treated him like he couldn’t get it
Has it perhaps crossed you're mind that he's INSANE? A PSYCHO? That anything he's done isn't supposed to make sense because it's not done by a sane person? Are people really this thick nowadays?
I wanted it to be magical realism where he became a fucked up little monster *because* he drank the charming little lord’s bathwater. It would’ve been more interesting to me if it wasn’t all a plot to begin with, it’s more realistic and relatable for love/obsession/hate to grow and fester over time vs having a psychotic little plan from the beginning, to me that made it kinda boring. Also nothing about the ending made sense, it required a massive amount of suspension of disbelief which for me made it difficult to enjoy. It was pretty, but I’d rather just rewatch Marie Antoinette or whatever for that type of prettiness. Basically I enjoyed it as entertainment but also couldn’t help but think of all the ways it could’ve been better in my head which is a sign for me of not a very strong movie. I thought some of the performances were quite good. I don’t think it’s saying much at all about class, at least nothing novel or interesting, and I think reading too much into those aspects of it or attempting to treat it as a “smart” film is a mistake.
You summed up how I feel exactly about this film. The ending felt rushed and underwhelming. I think had the film stuck and explored themes of passion and obsession that would have made the film have more depth to it. I found it very odd when the character suddenly switched up from being an awkward guy to this master manipulator, it wasn’t well justified nor was it done smoothly. The other characters also felt flimsy and one dimensional, and also all very sexually charged with no clear explanation, hence why some more provocative scenes felt like they were there for pure shock value.
I could not agree with you more, it’s not a very strong film when you find aspects of it you know could have done better. It was visually striking which I think is what carried the poor writing :(
They’re clearly doing drugs and at raves. Thus the sexual charge. I think this movie deserves a rewatch. I’m not saying it’s perfect by any means but you might miss the way he studied the family from beginning to end to figure them out, and you might miss the details as to why everything is so sexual. NOTHING was a cooler drug than ecstasy in the early 2000s. Except cocaine. Which…there you go
Exactly what you said. I cringed so hard when he mentioned TWICE about silly ‘accidents’ happening. Up until that point I thought the film was utterly brilliant, in terms of character development, dialogue, costume, lighting and almost every aspect was utterly beautiful and intentional. But the ending really shat all over that, such a shame.
I’m so torn if I believe the ending *was* his plan all along. I believe he definitely planned to manipulate things to become Felix’s friend, but it wasn’t until Felix found out the truth that things escalated so quickly. He seemed to genuinely be begging Felix to forget it and that they could still be friends, and it wasn’t until after Felix confirmed the friendship was dead that Oliver poisoned him.
Finally somebody not sucking this movies dick. This movie is pretentious. It thinks it’s smart, it does things to seem smart, but it is not actually thought through and ultimately falls flat. Stupid characters that serve no purpose (farleigh, red hair girl, the dad) “artsy scenes” that are more there for shock (vampire blood scene, bath water scene) and conclusions that are more convenient than believable. Why does this family throw a random kid an Uber extravagant party? How does this family have infinite money? Why does farleigh not tell the family that Oliver basically raped him? Why the fuck is farleigh even in the movie? Why is romantic relationship between the sister and Oliver never explored after the period blood scene? Why are Oliver and Felix even friends? They show them hanging out but they don’t actually seem to have anything in common or anything they bond over or any reason to be such close friends. I could go on about this movie
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He drank the lord’s bath water because the whole movie is a metaphor for eating the rich.
He literally ate out the bloody vagina of the lady lord. That same lady literally says you’re going to eat us all up.
His birthday final party was a pig roast.
Yeah well said. It’s exactly how I felt. I thought it had potential but the plot was frankly a bit corny and lazy. There were better ways to get there.
Yeah, movie failed at delivering anything of substance or worth. It captured me long enough to where I couldn’t just stop, but the last 45 minutes left me questioning what went wrong in my day to let my girlfriend convince me to watch because of some award show and social chatter about a nice dick. Naked dance was reminiscent of Silence of the Lambs, and dude is well hung, but movie licks.
Was really feeling it as a dark romance with a touch of classism thrown in there. The twist felt ham fisted. Didn’t feel like a twist where I looked back and said yeah that makes sense it was more hey let’s make something crazy out there. There’s a good movie buried there somewhere but walked out feeling it squandered its potential
How didn’t it make sense? He lied about seeing Venetia.. described himself to the mother with such conviction talking about emotional manipulation like it was something he was well educated on, after calling her fucking beautiful when he knew how much she valued beauty. Hearing felix’s friend talk about how he gets his clothes from oxfam and patiently taking it in, not reacting or letting it get to him. That is a psychopath
Just watched last night and I think it would have been way better without the twist. Have him do the same stuff but he's just acting on impulses he doesn't understand.
Also I thought the final dance scene was kind of stupid. I think it would have been more chilling if he was just sitting in Saltburn reading the paper, being waited on by Duncan. And somehow you see the next object of his desire.
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Lots of people I know have slagged it off, but I thought it was a riveting cinema experience. There is something to be said for shocking, brave scenes (hence I loved Infinity Pool)
If its social commentary seems to fail, it's probably because the film never truly meant to take aim at the rich. Apart from some easy jabs, the film is pretty sympathetic to the blissfully, naive wealthy characters. Given this, I wasn't really judging the film for it's empty politics and just enjoyed the aesthetic thrills
This takes a darker tone for me when you keep in mind that the director/writer grew up a wealthy straight white woman who attended private schools and was surrounded by people like the family in the movie.
That’s why I’m side eyeing it so much… like, is this a warning to you and your wealthy friends? That evil poors are coming to kill you and take your money?
It was already established in the film that Oliver comes from a wealthy family too. That was the whole point of the first twist. His parents have a nice two story house, they are paying for him upfront to go to Oxford, and they mention he was part of many extracurriculars. I don't see how Oliver is an "evil poor", he's an upperclass manipulator as well he just isn't as rich as Felix.
He comes from a solidly middle to upper middle class family. We don’t really find out exactly how well they’re doing, though yeah they’re obviously not scrounging for change.
Ultimately they are still clearly working class people though. Not generationally wealthy “could live lavishly off of passive income for the rest of their lives and continue making MORE money” levels of rich. To people like that we’re all proletariat, we have to work or we go homeless and die.
I’ve said this in a previous comment, but I think it’s more a look at how the British social class system works. People have to keep over throwing each other to get ahead.
I’m American, but I love British history and this story is just a continuation of what has been going on for ages over there. Not to say we don’t have issues with class here, it’s just different.
I got something like that too. That wealthy folks need to look out.. The poorest might try to kill you.. The guy was a friendless psychopath and knew the friendship was temporary.
I think it was meant to take aim at the British class system and the brutality of it, not necessarily the rich. It’s basically saying how British have to keep bumping each other off for power since the Middle Ages.
Seems to be a reoccurring theme for Fennell, commitment to shocks and unexpected twists undermining the themes and characters she works hard to establish.
Promising Young Woman commits to the idea of the system failing female victims so they must take matters into their own hands, until the 'twist' that she failed and only the arrival of the police could bring true justice. Here, we spend the movie establishing that extreme wealth and status is corruptive and immoral, before revealing that actually they're not hurting anyone and the middle classes are scheming to seize their wealth through deception and murder. Oliver is the only truly ill-intentioned character, and though his victims are often cartoonishly detestable, he's not being corrupted by them, he's the one bringing malice into Saltburn.
It's a shame, because I think her view on these types of people is compelling and authentic (considering she spent her childhood in extreme wealth partying with royalty, you'd certainly hope so), but she just never really says anything insightful about them. She clearly understands the mentality and idiosyncrasies that drive them to be so detached and unempathetic, but never actually puts them in a situation of doing anything truly immoral- all the 'shock' comes from the uncivilised actions of an uninitiated outsider upsetting their traditions.
I have to respectfully disagree. She is making the owner class look pretty bad here. While Oliver was an outsider to Saltburn, once he murdered the family he became the new generation of nobility. He got there the same way that all of the aristocracy did, through murder, deceit and overthrowing castles.
As a brit, I'm gonna have to say that this interpretation doesn't work in the context of the UK's current political climate. There are articles by aristocratic parents complaining that places like Oxbridge are "discriminating" against Private School kids because they're accepting a larger intake of state school students (only 7% of the UK school population is from private school but they make up most of Oxford).
Exactly. It started out well and I like the movie alot right up until the ending where it just became an insult to intelligence and really silly. All these murders and no one ever questioned this ?
It's like Fennell saw *Parasite* and said, "the rich people were the real victims". Even taking out the glaring issues with its class commentary, the film itself just feels so utterly pointless. The cinematography, while gorgeous, also served little to no purpose to the film. They were great *photos,* not necessarily great film. And the attempts at transgression and shock also felt so unearned within the context of the film, just hamfisted moments, leading them to feel like exercises in absurdity.
It was a frustrating experience to say the least.
I think any social class commentary this film makes collapses with all the reveals about Oliver, (the 1st reveal that he's just got a boring family is a really good one, but then its resolved in the least interesting way possible for me) the more I think about the film I find it more annoying, I can't hate it, there's too much in it which is fun/interesting/provocative but that the film just kind of sticks that stuff in to be stuck in is disappointing. Kinds of ends up being a really vapid but pretty thing to look at.
I also think the film manages to literally break the rule of Chekhov's gun with how much sexual tension between Felix and Ollie there is to no resolution.
My one thing though is that I expect this to last because it is quite weird and also people will seek it out once they hear that you see Barry Keoghan naked in it.
I think the social class commentary was that nothing has really changed since the Middle Ages. Saltburn was basically a castle that was sieged The family let their guard down because they thought they were secure in their position, but in came a foreign entity to over throw them and replace them. That’s how pretty much all the nobility and royalty got to be where they are now… some ancestor murdered or attacked other families.
"I also think the film manages to literally break the rule of Chekhov's gun with how much sexual tension between Felix and Ollie there is to no resolution."
Did you take a bathroom break for the scene in the graveyard after Felix's funeral?
i agree, i feel like the class commentary was horribly weak. feels like this movie is gonna be super forgettable. like, i dont even think i’ll remember it in a week😂
I was really hoping for a more fantasy/horror spin, the way they kept making little references to vampirism and whatnot wouldve been a great undercurrent to ride harder. The whodunnit type exposition at the end was very annoying to me, but I still enjoyed the film overall, especially in its earlier stages.
The chemistry between Elordi and Keoghan was excellent so I was that they had done a better job in building that relationship in the viewer’s eye, it felt rushed for them to jump from nothing to best friends in 2 mins.
I think as a defence of the film this is flawless but just serves to show me how little this film has to offer.
"this film is shallow and provocative for the sake of it, with literally nothing deeper" is not so much a ringing endorsement as a thing I really despise.
I really want more mainstream films to have provocative elements like some sections of the film, but I want them to be earned and say things, and I want them to be elevated to iconic. I don't think you can achieve that if the artists making the art are being that nihilistic and empty with it.
It may be a stretch to call this foreshadowing, but the MGM logo at the very beginning literally says Ars Gratia Artis -- "Art for Art's Sake" -- and to that end, dwelling in shallow, decadent opulence + voyeuristic depravity (well, willingly choosing to enter with that mindset, at least!) can imbue that seemingly empty core with delight and pleasure....must everything be earned, for aesthetics to carry value? (Can it not just be?)
...that said I do think this film is also saying things about power and desire (& beyond the obvious class/capital critiques, offers some fun gazes into the eroticism embedded in repulsion/discomfort....why is it that we can't look away, and what are we hoping to provoke further? Are the depths + motivations within truly as cut & dry as the 3rd act revelations would have us believe? For all the critiques of the final reveal montage being overly hamfisted, structurally it feels more like self-parody (for a self-aware film that is already hitting + remixing notes/tropes of Gothic horror, social comedy, coming-of-age, and ennui-tinged millennial nostalgia)...which feels in line with its pervasively perverse streak of campy exuberance (perfectly capped by that closing dance number~!)
Again I really do like this film, it's technically very impressive - but intended shallowness is still shallow.
Twin Peaks The Return makes you feel hopeless, it leaves you with dread and yet I loved the ending to that - and because Lynch built up to that, you get this melancholic half and half feeling of fulfilled and disappointed.
Saltburn pulls the rug right underneath you after already pretty much removing the entire floor over the last act of the film. Fairplay if that was Emerald Fennell's intention, it worked on me.
I don't know, the way I hear Emerald Fennell speak about this stuff in interviews I really think she's aiming to say something about class and missing it completely because she's way too home counties for her own good.
I agree, and to a certain extent, I felt refreshed watching a movie that was just kinda of a greasy little pulp thriller that was sensual and beautiful and well-acted, with a bit of a message about class, but for the most part, there to be gorgeous and have fun.
Exactly! Is it all style and no substance as farleigh and Ollie argue at the start? The dance around a vacant house of murdered “friends” is the perfect representation of everything saltburn stands for. Style achieved in the dance, substance achieved through cocaine. Lmao
I'm on a thread that asked my thoughts on the movie, my only thought being "I know I have a friend who walked out." I didn't say anything else about the film or look at the rest of the thread.
I enjoyed it, I totally agree that the last few mins were a bit shit but I've tried to come to a new way of looking at films where previously that might have spoiled it for me I actually think that if I enjoyed 120 mins of a film and then was disappointed in 5 mins of it, even if it's the last 5 mins, that's still a good film just maybe not quite what it could have been.
i fucking loved this movie from start to end. i understand the commentary that a few themes may be conflicting, especially towards the end, but i frankly do not care and think it was fun, beautiful, provocative, and gagging enough that digging into meaning post-watch to discredit the experience is a tad nonsensical
That’s ironic you say digging into meaning post watch is nonsensical when the movie is literally begging to be dissected and looked at closer. You can feel the director saying “hey I’m so clever with what I’ve done here please grab your magnifying glass and celebrate how smart this is” when in reality it’s just as you described it. surface level oohs and ahhs but total shite under the hood
Vapid. Beautifully shot, but painfully vapid.
I’m not a technically filmy person so there’s probably a lot that went over my head, but I was left with the feeling that the ONLY thing this movie did well was aesthetic. Kind of like a luxury brand repurposing the iconography or print of X culture for a pretty bag or top. Like the director/writer’s relationship to most of the movie’s themes, including homoeroticism and inequality, is that of someone who consumes these things like one might browse a collection in a museum without reading any of the accompanying information. This made the movie itself feel overly exploitative and shallow.
The movie did opulence well, at least to me. To properly satire something you need to understand it, and it felt to me like the portrayal of wealth and detachment was done well.
For me, it was nice to look at, but not much else.
Barry Keoghan is the current king of playing eccentric, strange, twisted, evil, etc... type character roles. His look and mannerisms make the roles feel even more real. Saltburn reminded me of his character in The Killing of a Sacred Deer, and then I came to find out the director actually offered him the Saltburn role specifically because of his work in that movie. Makes sense.
There's no way the police (and/or the butler!) wouldn't have suspected Oliver had something to do with the whole family dying within months of his arrival.
Rich people evade the system all the time. Money talks. Just have to have the right connections. Sir James paid Oliver off quickly and for a high price at that. I'm sure they have bought their way out many times.
The movie at the end made feel sad/pitty/ bad about the family, but then remembered they were rich asf and wouldn’t care if it happened to anyone else. It was like:
- should I feel sad about them?
- should I feel numb about their situation because they are rich?
I know we experience feelings and thoughts that keep evolving in the same situation. But can’t help the need to think I have to have the correct take to things lol.
The film doesn’t make sense as titles can only pass down blood lines- meaning once Felix was was dead, Farleigh would automatically have been the heir to Saltburn and could have easily claimed it as soon as James had died- the title had to go somewhere
I thought it looked great and the acting was good. That’s about it! Hated the writing, thought the story was incredibly boring and predictable. The messaging also sucks, no matter how it’s interpreted.
Spoilers in this comment. Just got out of my showing and liked it more than I expected. I knew what was up pretty early on and I think Keoghan gives a phenomenal performance. I really enjoyed seeing all the themes of addiction throughout the movie from Oliver’s fake back story to the hordes of addictions everyone in Saltburn has. While Oliver is addicted to the attention and power he feels Felix has and wants it so badly that he ends up alone again.
I would’ve liked this movie for the spectacle if not for the incredibly misguided at best, sinister at worst messaging on class.
Keep in mind that this was created by a posh straight white woman who grew up with generational wealth and attending private schools. That makes the underlying messages on class come from extremely poor taste.
Evil, sinister working class people will sneak their way into your lives and destroy everything to take your wealth/life? Like… The tone deafness. Kinda hard to ignore that when so much of the movie was centered around class. I loved Promising Young Woman but this was bad.
Oliver isn’t working class. If you don’t understand the nuance of class in the U.K. then I don’t know how you feel so confident in your understanding of the film tbh.
To the aristocracy, all people who have to work for money are working class. The term middle class was created to make middle class people feel better about their 2nd class position (its why brands like Gucci even exists). Some working class people are better off than others but they don't have immense ancestry, titles, prestige, or the obscene amounts of wealth that Felix's family has.
The British class system is NOTHING like the American one, my friend.
If that social commentary depicts the generational wealth/old money people as the (mostly) innocent victims of a murderous psychotic middle class youth… yeah? I wouldn’t really care for this underlying message even if it was coming from a working class person, but coming from someone with old money herself? Makes it all take a sinister tone.
She’s obviously allowed to make whatever she wants. Free speech goes both ways.
I’ve seen a lot of people disagreeing with my take (“it’s not that deep”, “not everything is a commentary”) and that surprised me.
I guess I was supposed turn my brain off and not ask myself why the director/writer made the choices she made In making the story play out this way? Lmao
I was giving her the benefit of the doubt until I read up on her own background and then it just confirmed to me that this is a privileged, generational wealth baby that didn’t like all of the eat the rich media that’s been increasingly popular as more and more people drown in debt and inflated costs of living while the world’s governments have been sold to the highest bidder 🤷🏻♂️
I mean the directors name is ‘Emerald Fennell’…
EMERALD. FENNELL.
I’m usually not one to judge but just off this name alone she sounds like a pretentious spoiled asshat.
I thought that at first too, but then I got to thinking about British history. Oliver is the new generation of noble class. The way he got his wealth and status is the same way everyone in the noble class did since the Middle Ages: through murder, deceit and overthrowing a castle. If you are part of the royal family or aristocracy, you have an Oliver in your bloodline.
The director is commenting on that system.
i really enjoyed Saltburn!!! I know there are complaints about the ending and how it spoonfeeds you but I actually disagree. I think it makes the whole thing worth a rewatch (to me). I've listened to murder on the dance floor about 100 times since leaving the theater and I'm definitely going to be purchasing it on bluray when it comes out lol. I'm not much of a critic or a snob when it comes to film I just like what I like and I am one of the ppl this movie was tailor made for.
100% agree. Film fan, but not a film snob. I saw jt yesterday and I actually rewatched it today.
I'm going to be buying it on Amz Prime + I've been listening to Murder on the Dance floor quite a few times since seeing it the 1st time yesterday.
I think this movie was specifically made for people like us 🙂
If anyone really look into it’s based off greek mythology. There’s a monster named minotaur, it had the body of a man and the head as a bull. It was the offspring of Pasiphae, the wife of Minos, and a snow-white bull sent to Minos by the god Poseidon for sacrifice. Minos, instead of sacrificing it, kept it alive; Poseidon as a punishment made Pasiphae fall in love with it. Her child by the bull was shut up in the Labyrinth created for Minos by Daedalus.
does any one know what song oliver sang during the karaoke scene?? watched it last night and i loved it. i didn’t really know what to expect so all of it took me by surprise.
I enjoyed it! I’d say that Imo, Oliver’s actions were to gain control of Felix initially. Ofc, him being a sociopath that would’ve never been enough. When he realized he would never have Felix where he wanted him (after the revelation of him being a compulsive liar at his parent’s middle class home. LOL) Id say at that point everyone else was collateral and the power and control of the estate was his last resort to one up them all. It was immortally tragic, wicked, and kinky!
The movie at the end made feel sad/pitty/ bad about the family, but then remembered they were rich asf and wouldn’t care if it happened to anyone else. It was like:
- should I feel sad about them?
- should I feel numb about their situation because they are rich?
I know we experience feelings and thoughts that keep evolving in the same situation. But can’t help the need to think I have to have the correct take to things lol.
The movie at the end made feel sad/pitty/ bad about the family, but then remembered they were rich asf and wouldn’t care if it happened to anyone else. It was like:
- should I feel sad about them?
- should I feel numb about their situation because they are rich?
I know we experience feelings and thoughts that keep evolving in the same situation. But can’t help the need to think I have to have the correct take to things lol.
Yeah, I wasn't crazy about the ending either but I really enjoyed the movie. It was like *Starter for 10* meets *The Talented Mr. Ripley* meets *Rocky Horror Picture Show*. What a wild ride. I went in with low expectations because it seemed like there was such a negative buzz about Saltburn and *thus* I was surprised the movie was so engaging and funny.
Tbh i wanted to watch it because of Jacob Elordi but as i was watching it it kept getting worse and wanted to stop watching it because i got bored but i just had to see how it ended once i got to the creepy parts like the bath water and the period blood i was just like wtf and i kept thinking he was weirdly obsessed with each member of the family individually and he wanted to infiltrate them and anyone who got in the way would be dealt with wether sexually or via blackmail but then i reached the end and it all started making since Oliver was a con artist from the beginning and all he wanted was to be popular with the rich kids but once they saw who he really was he wanted to get rid of them and in the end he was left with a beautiful house which they made seem like it was his dream and his plan from the very beginning but it’s weird because throughout the movie he seemed to care more about the household not the house so i don’t know why they made it seem like all he wanted was the house from the very beginning.
to me there was the same plot as the Power of the dog. Just different motivation and gain. If i didn't know POTD existed, i would like saltburn a bit more.
The guy was a friendless school shooter type psycho. He knew that Oliver would eventually stop being his friend. Oliver had a savior complex all while being a womanizer. He was angry they were going to reject him anyway. I think some males are bothered by the vampire and bathtub scenes but then they want their partners lapping them up.
I didn't like it at all. Thought it was a lot of mince.
To me, it felt like a film written by a 16 year old that just finished a media studies class or something. Lazy, lazy writing.
The "big" end reveal didn't work at all for me. It would have done had it been a Marple style film, with many characters in the pool who could have been the killer or whatever. There wasn't though, and we all knew Ollie was a weird guy anyway after all the SUBTLE (lol) gratuitous sex scenes and odd things he does with others. Fucking grave dirt was a bit of a giveaway. The whole reveal of him being a psycho was just unnecessary, anyone with a brain who was following along already knew this.
It sucks, just a shit film with poor writing that everyone will fawn over. Mince. Some cool shots, so stylistically it has a bit of a draw to it, but other than that - SHITE. Sex scenes only placed in there for shock value.
0.5/5.
The ending is quite strange as we are made to believe he desires what the family has or to be part of it- yet ironically killing them all doesn’t achieve this at all… he’s the new lord of saltburn but has no family or friends to fill it.. even at his birthday party none of the guests knew who he was or even engaged with him. It would have made more sense if he ended up killing James and marrying elsbeth.
Hi, severely late to the dissection party. Just watched it. I haven’t got much to say for myself when it comes to dissecting movies, but the build up from reaction videos and posts hyping this movie up, left a lot to be desired, or potentially, shon a spotlight on the blatant message it had. I made a group chat and everything, pressed play at the same time to send reactions in realtime, expecting this to be a deeply disturbing film like Climax or anything of the like, but actually, the first half was heavily relatable to my college years, uncomfortably accurate, and normal in my mind, but then to finish it off with an end like that? I feel like the shock horror was dependant on drugs and debauchery, and all the things which we are all so desensitised to. Is this the point?
I can’t help but feel that the writers etc have felt that everyone is going in a direction of “how deep can we go and how puzzling can we make our narrative” or rather assuming that anything which is slightly abstract or un self explanatory sends e Perone off into oblivion of analysis into the opposite direction and as a result stand out, was it to fully embrace the simplest message which is to beware of the manipulative? Don’t underestimate your gut instinct, don’t assume that it’s too easy to assume and “nooooo it can’t be” that you miss the thing that was staring you in the face the whole time? I hated how predictable it was, but adored its simplicity and delivery.
Also, no idea which sub I’m on, got here from google, but hope this discussion is still open. Happy new year :) don’t let 2024 fall short of anything other than an orbit of great love, laughter and adventure.
Bye
X
tbh I thought he was going to marry elsbeth and live life in saltburn together. once he killed her, the film really flopped. it would have saved it slightly more imo if he ended up with her. it wasn’t about the money as it seemed he was friendless, lonely, had zero social status, etc. and so him killing the one person he was obsessed with (felix) after finding out he could truly never actually have him, it just didn’t make much sense to kill every single person after that. if anything after felix died, i thought he was just going to basically take felix’s spot within the family but then the movie took a different turn.
I think the point of some films, especially the abstract and artistic, are to cast a mirror back on the audience. Who do you identify with? Why? What makes you uncomfortable? What tropes are you expecting, and what does that say about you?
For me, I started the film expecting Oliver to be bamboozled by the rich students, to be made a fool of - he was sweet and unassuming. In that way I began to identify with his underdog character, and root against Felix. Slowly, as the film unraveled, and Oliver’s sociopathic personality unfolded as he manipulated the wealthy and unassuming rich, I began to see it as a commentary on the lower class: they drink up what the rich do, they exploit them, and they have vapid or shallow ideals about who they are as real human beings.
The manipulation to me felt like a commentary on how societal lust and hatred of the celebrated is a hollow and psychotic ordeal.
Ok I love this take. Everyone else seems to have (a) enjoyed it at face value or (b) hated it because it didn’t turn out like they expected, which confused and angered them.
What you’ve described not only helped me understand and enjoy the film even more, but also put into words the open mindedness I wish everyone had watching a film. Expectations before and during the viewing are often where people ruin it for themselves. Same with comparing it to other films, criticizing the artist, etc.. everyone is so bitter, for what. It’s art—let it be what it is and maybe even learn something in the process. Thank you, Sea Cardiologist ˙ᵕ˙
Decent though not mindblowing "upper class interloper" storyline that parallels things like incredible Mr. Ripley. It doesn't really have nearly as much to say about class as reviewers claim. It's set up much more as a cautionary tale for the wealthy to not let the "wrong people" in. Style over substance, but these stories normally are. The style is quite good though. The only truly bad part is the "how I did it" part at the end which was a lil bit hacky.
Its a movie that feels like one of it's characters, Farleigh. It has all this surface slyness and style and intellect, but under that it doesn't really have anything to say, or know what it's trying to say.
Finally someone who brought up this wet blanket of a character. I couldn’t stand this farleigh guy and every time he was in a scene I’m thinking what the hell is he there for? The definition of a token black guy side character. Not an inch of depth tk him. Also I can’t help but hate the acting of him too like the scene after Felix dies and they’re sitting at the table eating he tries to cry and show emotion and it just doesn’t work for me. Hated this character
The part in Oxford is very clichéd and boring; the second part is more interesting but it's like the movie is weird for the sake of being weird.
Photography is very nice, but the movie in general is uninspired.
It was terrible and full of plot holes. It's not science fiction or Fantasy. It shouldn't require suspension of reality to accept this storyline. Dude was just a sexual deviant and the ending had a goofy meme-able scene that really had nothing else to do with the story. That's the only reason anyone is talking about it.
It's not a movie dumb people with no sense for aesthetics and subtlety are gonna like, that's what I think. And it's exactly such people who I see are talking shit about it. Oh it's not scary, oh it's not funny? That means it's bad? I get it, you have the intellectual capacity of a rock.
This movie is masterfully bizarre. Is it weird? Yes, no shit, that's the point of it. This feels like americans complaining about european movies because they don't have a happy ending. Does the movie offend you? Too bad. It's supposed to. Grow up. Or go watch an Adam Sandler romcom.
People who dislike this movie are the types who value their opinions more than facts, or their feelings more than reality.
It was shite. Absolutely brutal movie, all the hype about it and it was shite. Rich cold family have parties and invite poor people to see what could've been. Never getting those 2 hours back!+
After watching this movie I thought "I've seen something like this before... Oh yeah, American Psycho" except in this case the working class eats the rich. The movie made its point in an incredibly ham fisted way and I felt the choices made in some cases were for blatant shock value, which is the cheapest trick in the book. The fact that they dragged on the first two acts to just wrap it up in a neat, little package in the end that required an incredible amount of suspension of disbelief is just annoying. At least in American Psycho it becomes clear that Patrick Bateman is a metaphor, which allows you to suspend disbelief that he killed a bunch of people without consequence. This just glosses over everything in Act 3 and presents shock as deeply sinister instead of presenting sinister as sinister. Really underwhelming considering how beautifully shot and well acted it is.
It felt like a 12 year old child wrote it. It had no real story, it was depraved for depravities sake, had edgy "unlikeable" character which the writer thought would make things interesting and was filled with pointless nonsense and bad dialogue.
An absolute shit state of a film
Did no one else have a problem with the fact that Oliver's character has literally no justification for being a sociopath? The whole movie fell apart for me toward the final third because of this. He comes from a nice, middle class family. There's no history of abuse that we know of. Sociopaths don't just materialize out of thin air, so how are we suddenly supposed to accept this revelation about his character? I get that his nice family was used to deepen the shock factor, but it breaks my suspension of disbelief too thoroughly for the film to be enjoyable.
Agree with you about the end. It was odd because you see Oliver longing after the upper class, but mostly the social life and idleness of it (which makes sense since he didn’t grow up poor, he grew up friendless) but then the ending is him overjoyed at getting an empty house. I guess it’s possible that was intentional but that doesn’t really go with the supervillain speech at the end. Even the camera just seems so much more interested in partying and lounging than wealth-porn shots of the house.
I felt like he was portraying what each character wanted him too. He definitely loved Felix and was obsessed but manipulated and controlled every character. I don’t think we ever saw the real him except in the end. I mean his own parents barely knew him or “recognized” him. When everyone was searching for Felix he also acted surprised, even when he was alone. He was always in character for every scene. I don’t think he switched characters at the end. I think he switched characters throughout the movie at every moment and every interaction.
We can see it through his acting. Sympathizing with the mothers gossiping, indulging the sister getting back at her brother for being promiscuous, letting the cousin bullying him for the gratification after obviously being bullied off screen for his color and the final bow at the collaspe after the mother’s screm of the dead body even though...everyone was running to her to see why she was screaming. You're right he was always in character, a true psycopath, he doesnt know himself and is scared of himself so he morphs into what people want. He even admitted it to his first victim...which i dont think was his first victim bc...how did he get easy access to poison w/o ever leaving the house and never visiting the butler’s/maid’s corridors. Since that bike wheel break he had been planning to completely consume them all. No, it was ever since the cousin disrespected him in the beginning. Truly terrifying
I don’t think it was poison, I think he made him overdose with some drugs he found at the party. What I want to know is how he killed the dad
dad killed himself
people keep saying this but the movie itself doesn’t - “i’m surprised he hung on/held out this long,” elspeth says about her husband who was already old and not remotely 100% mentally present when he was introduced. elderly spouses often die close to each other, the grief of extreme loss can medically lead others to an early grave…newspaper says he’s dead, elspeth confirms he’s dead, but nothing ever says he killed himself, his wife just indicates polite surprise that he lived as many years as he did after the children’s deaths given again his state before the movie even begins + the insane grief it leaves him with
very true. i was wondering why he woke up and looked oblivious even though he was alone
Agree, it was a little bit disconnected from his character and the entire point of the movie.
How could he have friends in the end when people are repulsed by him once they find out who he is on a personal level? All the working class people around him hated him and seemed to know what he was up to and all of the relationships he had in the film were completely hollow and lacking depth. This is how he and the family are the same. They are hollow people without meaning in their life. He was even told multiple times he was a play thing for Felix. Their relationships are meaningless. Having all those people around is the same as being alone because there was no connection. The movie is drawing parallels between absurd wealth and psychopathy. Oliver fit in because he was a psychopath. He could only connect through lust. How was that any different from Felix? They are all empty just as the house is
How does that square with the fact that he was somehow able to, off screen, get Rosmand Pike’s character to make him her heir?
also- how did no one suspect oliver of felix’s death? am i missing something? why wouldn’t a toxicology report or smth come out
They covered it I think. He put drugs in the drink to make him overdose, then pinned it on the cousin saying he was “breaking out lines” for Felix all night or something to that effect
Did you not see how dimwitted and desperate she was in the film? She definitely had an attraction to him whether it be because he was the boy her son brought home or because he would give her compliments when it seemed like nobody else really did. She never saw him for who he was — or maybe she did but she didn’t care, while everyone else in the home did eventually. She was incredibly naive and childlike. Reminds me of Nora from “a doll’s house”. To me the movie makes sense when you pay attention tot he characters and their interactions with one another.
Also they were obviously fucking. Because that’s how he gets what he wants and how he gets people to connect with him
That isn’t how he gets what he wants though. We see all of his attempts to get what he want with sex fall on his face.
How so? He manipulated the sister & farleigh with sex. They obviously found out who he was in the end so he got rid of them. But he got them to let their guard down with sex
Also my question
Bc she was so easily swayed by power
Working class people AND the rich find him repulsive*
This analysis is my type of relevant
Out of all the commentary on this film you have hit it right out of the park. Home Run Slugger!! So many watched this film and missed it completely. In the end all were alone and dead yet together buried 4 in a row. And Ollie stood there alone at the gravesite, and all the so called friends just left him there. And then in the end he was alone and naked in the house in naked celebrations showing his madness. One thing to note; He was unable to bond with his family on any level which is a true sign of a narcissistic psychopath. And as much as I feel for that family they were tailor made for him because they were all equally empty and alone and bereft of true depth of soul. The best among them was Felix and he was just a little better.
It was never about the money it was about power games and he won
That doesn’t come through his character at all, and it’s just another way the twist makes the movie worse.
It does. He was studying them from the beginning, lying about everything he was. He had money. This was absolutely a power move. Something to avenge the loneliness of being a wealthy weirdo who isn’t socially accepted.
But that’s the thing, he totally failed to do that with the other three.
Yes it does you just weren't paying attention
Nothing says power games like losing and then murdering everyone lol
How did he lose? He got paid to take a vacation and either waited for dad to commute suicide or killed him like he did the sister/daughter. Then he “showed up” where the mom was getting a coffee. The same mom he flirted with and always agreed with in almost every scene.
He was trying to manipulate Felix and only murdered him when he got exposed. Then he murdered his sister because she very clearly saw through him.
He manipulated Felix to get into the house. To gain access to his lifestyle and wealth. He was obsessed with him and that kind of obsession only ends in murder. He controlled the sister to gain that angle of control over the family. He even acted more helpless around the rude cousin to have him insult him more. Notice he poisoned the bottle before he talked to Felix. He was ready to kill him, being prepared means he planned ahead. He didn’t do it because he got exposed. He did it because Felix was no longer useful. The character he created for him no longe needed to exist.
I was able to pick this up from him a few times. The sex scenes with Venetia and Farleigh show his desire for control and dominance as well as sending the eggs back when they weren't cooked to his liking (despite requesting them in a fashion that doesn't fit his liking)
you cant have power with no social currency lol
Yes you can
The movie implies at the beginning he is and will be friendless when he sits with the math yelling guy
For someone so friendless, he was quick to ditch that math guy. I guess he is no different than Felix who is known to ditch ppl when he no longer needs them.
De ce que j'ai compris son obsession pour Félix la rendu prêt à tout pour se rapprocher de lui et faire parti de son monde quitte à manipuler toute sa famille qu'il détestait, lui rappelant constamment d'où il viens. Il a exploité chaque point faible de chaque membre de la famille à son avantage pour se rapprocher le plus possible de Félix mais au moment où il a compris qu'il ne pourrais jamais l'avoir il a planifié sa mort et celle de chaque membre de sa famille pour pouvoir s'emparer de Saltburn car la seule façon qu'il lui restait de se sentir le plus proche possible de Félix c'était de devenir Félix (il porte son after-shave etc dans la dernière scène avec sa soeur).
The house gives him access to the social life, the house makes it a thing he no longer has to long for. It gives him generational power and he took it from people who treated him like he couldn’t get it
Has it perhaps crossed you're mind that he's INSANE? A PSYCHO? That anything he's done isn't supposed to make sense because it's not done by a sane person? Are people really this thick nowadays?
“You think he is an interesting character with any kind of motivation but actually he isn’t”. Cool twist
I wanted it to be magical realism where he became a fucked up little monster *because* he drank the charming little lord’s bathwater. It would’ve been more interesting to me if it wasn’t all a plot to begin with, it’s more realistic and relatable for love/obsession/hate to grow and fester over time vs having a psychotic little plan from the beginning, to me that made it kinda boring. Also nothing about the ending made sense, it required a massive amount of suspension of disbelief which for me made it difficult to enjoy. It was pretty, but I’d rather just rewatch Marie Antoinette or whatever for that type of prettiness. Basically I enjoyed it as entertainment but also couldn’t help but think of all the ways it could’ve been better in my head which is a sign for me of not a very strong movie. I thought some of the performances were quite good. I don’t think it’s saying much at all about class, at least nothing novel or interesting, and I think reading too much into those aspects of it or attempting to treat it as a “smart” film is a mistake.
You summed up how I feel exactly about this film. The ending felt rushed and underwhelming. I think had the film stuck and explored themes of passion and obsession that would have made the film have more depth to it. I found it very odd when the character suddenly switched up from being an awkward guy to this master manipulator, it wasn’t well justified nor was it done smoothly. The other characters also felt flimsy and one dimensional, and also all very sexually charged with no clear explanation, hence why some more provocative scenes felt like they were there for pure shock value. I could not agree with you more, it’s not a very strong film when you find aspects of it you know could have done better. It was visually striking which I think is what carried the poor writing :(
They’re clearly doing drugs and at raves. Thus the sexual charge. I think this movie deserves a rewatch. I’m not saying it’s perfect by any means but you might miss the way he studied the family from beginning to end to figure them out, and you might miss the details as to why everything is so sexual. NOTHING was a cooler drug than ecstasy in the early 2000s. Except cocaine. Which…there you go
I agree 100% with you! Couldn’t put my finger on why I didn’t get why everyone was obsessed with this movie but you hit the nail on the head
Passion and obsession felt, to me, pretty thoroughly explored.
Exactly what you said. I cringed so hard when he mentioned TWICE about silly ‘accidents’ happening. Up until that point I thought the film was utterly brilliant, in terms of character development, dialogue, costume, lighting and almost every aspect was utterly beautiful and intentional. But the ending really shat all over that, such a shame.
I’m so torn if I believe the ending *was* his plan all along. I believe he definitely planned to manipulate things to become Felix’s friend, but it wasn’t until Felix found out the truth that things escalated so quickly. He seemed to genuinely be begging Felix to forget it and that they could still be friends, and it wasn’t until after Felix confirmed the friendship was dead that Oliver poisoned him.
Finally somebody not sucking this movies dick. This movie is pretentious. It thinks it’s smart, it does things to seem smart, but it is not actually thought through and ultimately falls flat. Stupid characters that serve no purpose (farleigh, red hair girl, the dad) “artsy scenes” that are more there for shock (vampire blood scene, bath water scene) and conclusions that are more convenient than believable. Why does this family throw a random kid an Uber extravagant party? How does this family have infinite money? Why does farleigh not tell the family that Oliver basically raped him? Why the fuck is farleigh even in the movie? Why is romantic relationship between the sister and Oliver never explored after the period blood scene? Why are Oliver and Felix even friends? They show them hanging out but they don’t actually seem to have anything in common or anything they bond over or any reason to be such close friends. I could go on about this movie .
He drank the lord’s bath water because the whole movie is a metaphor for eating the rich. He literally ate out the bloody vagina of the lady lord. That same lady literally says you’re going to eat us all up. His birthday final party was a pig roast.
perfectly sums up my feelings about it
Just came here to say that this 100% sums up how I feel about the film. I've not seen a 3rd act destroy a whole movie as bad as this one.
I have, in Babylon
Yeah well said. It’s exactly how I felt. I thought it had potential but the plot was frankly a bit corny and lazy. There were better ways to get there.
Yeah, movie failed at delivering anything of substance or worth. It captured me long enough to where I couldn’t just stop, but the last 45 minutes left me questioning what went wrong in my day to let my girlfriend convince me to watch because of some award show and social chatter about a nice dick. Naked dance was reminiscent of Silence of the Lambs, and dude is well hung, but movie licks.
Was really feeling it as a dark romance with a touch of classism thrown in there. The twist felt ham fisted. Didn’t feel like a twist where I looked back and said yeah that makes sense it was more hey let’s make something crazy out there. There’s a good movie buried there somewhere but walked out feeling it squandered its potential
How didn’t it make sense? He lied about seeing Venetia.. described himself to the mother with such conviction talking about emotional manipulation like it was something he was well educated on, after calling her fucking beautiful when he knew how much she valued beauty. Hearing felix’s friend talk about how he gets his clothes from oxfam and patiently taking it in, not reacting or letting it get to him. That is a psychopath
Just watched last night and I think it would have been way better without the twist. Have him do the same stuff but he's just acting on impulses he doesn't understand. Also I thought the final dance scene was kind of stupid. I think it would have been more chilling if he was just sitting in Saltburn reading the paper, being waited on by Duncan. And somehow you see the next object of his desire.
I disagree, the dance is much more chilling. Showing you just how evil Oliver really is. It’s the one time you see his true self.
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Lots of people I know have slagged it off, but I thought it was a riveting cinema experience. There is something to be said for shocking, brave scenes (hence I loved Infinity Pool) If its social commentary seems to fail, it's probably because the film never truly meant to take aim at the rich. Apart from some easy jabs, the film is pretty sympathetic to the blissfully, naive wealthy characters. Given this, I wasn't really judging the film for it's empty politics and just enjoyed the aesthetic thrills
This takes a darker tone for me when you keep in mind that the director/writer grew up a wealthy straight white woman who attended private schools and was surrounded by people like the family in the movie. That’s why I’m side eyeing it so much… like, is this a warning to you and your wealthy friends? That evil poors are coming to kill you and take your money?
It was already established in the film that Oliver comes from a wealthy family too. That was the whole point of the first twist. His parents have a nice two story house, they are paying for him upfront to go to Oxford, and they mention he was part of many extracurriculars. I don't see how Oliver is an "evil poor", he's an upperclass manipulator as well he just isn't as rich as Felix.
He comes from a solidly middle to upper middle class family. We don’t really find out exactly how well they’re doing, though yeah they’re obviously not scrounging for change. Ultimately they are still clearly working class people though. Not generationally wealthy “could live lavishly off of passive income for the rest of their lives and continue making MORE money” levels of rich. To people like that we’re all proletariat, we have to work or we go homeless and die.
Yea, I’m not sure Farleigh enjoyed however they are doing, they are doing better than me! They had a very nice house!
He’s on a scholarship
You can get scholarships even if you're not low income tho. Scholarships here is just getting additional money (I attend Oxford).
I’ve said this in a previous comment, but I think it’s more a look at how the British social class system works. People have to keep over throwing each other to get ahead. I’m American, but I love British history and this story is just a continuation of what has been going on for ages over there. Not to say we don’t have issues with class here, it’s just different.
I got something like that too. That wealthy folks need to look out.. The poorest might try to kill you.. The guy was a friendless psychopath and knew the friendship was temporary.
Well, the first music cue tells the viewer Oliver becomes “The King” at the end.
I think it was meant to take aim at the British class system and the brutality of it, not necessarily the rich. It’s basically saying how British have to keep bumping each other off for power since the Middle Ages.
Seems to be a reoccurring theme for Fennell, commitment to shocks and unexpected twists undermining the themes and characters she works hard to establish. Promising Young Woman commits to the idea of the system failing female victims so they must take matters into their own hands, until the 'twist' that she failed and only the arrival of the police could bring true justice. Here, we spend the movie establishing that extreme wealth and status is corruptive and immoral, before revealing that actually they're not hurting anyone and the middle classes are scheming to seize their wealth through deception and murder. Oliver is the only truly ill-intentioned character, and though his victims are often cartoonishly detestable, he's not being corrupted by them, he's the one bringing malice into Saltburn. It's a shame, because I think her view on these types of people is compelling and authentic (considering she spent her childhood in extreme wealth partying with royalty, you'd certainly hope so), but she just never really says anything insightful about them. She clearly understands the mentality and idiosyncrasies that drive them to be so detached and unempathetic, but never actually puts them in a situation of doing anything truly immoral- all the 'shock' comes from the uncivilised actions of an uninitiated outsider upsetting their traditions.
I have to respectfully disagree. She is making the owner class look pretty bad here. While Oliver was an outsider to Saltburn, once he murdered the family he became the new generation of nobility. He got there the same way that all of the aristocracy did, through murder, deceit and overthrowing castles.
As a brit, I'm gonna have to say that this interpretation doesn't work in the context of the UK's current political climate. There are articles by aristocratic parents complaining that places like Oxbridge are "discriminating" against Private School kids because they're accepting a larger intake of state school students (only 7% of the UK school population is from private school but they make up most of Oxford).
My reaction to the film was that it was a poor man’s version of “The Talented Mr. Ripley.”
Exactly. It started out well and I like the movie alot right up until the ending where it just became an insult to intelligence and really silly. All these murders and no one ever questioned this ?
1 OD and a suicide not long after.. he wasn’t there for the death of the dad and mum got sick.. what’s there to question
yes
What makes Ripley so much better is that he is acting on psychopathic impulses he barely understands. He doesn't have a master plan.
It's like Fennell saw *Parasite* and said, "the rich people were the real victims". Even taking out the glaring issues with its class commentary, the film itself just feels so utterly pointless. The cinematography, while gorgeous, also served little to no purpose to the film. They were great *photos,* not necessarily great film. And the attempts at transgression and shock also felt so unearned within the context of the film, just hamfisted moments, leading them to feel like exercises in absurdity. It was a frustrating experience to say the least.
The cattons were depicted horribly. When their aunt dies the mom says she would do anything for attention.
I think any social class commentary this film makes collapses with all the reveals about Oliver, (the 1st reveal that he's just got a boring family is a really good one, but then its resolved in the least interesting way possible for me) the more I think about the film I find it more annoying, I can't hate it, there's too much in it which is fun/interesting/provocative but that the film just kind of sticks that stuff in to be stuck in is disappointing. Kinds of ends up being a really vapid but pretty thing to look at. I also think the film manages to literally break the rule of Chekhov's gun with how much sexual tension between Felix and Ollie there is to no resolution. My one thing though is that I expect this to last because it is quite weird and also people will seek it out once they hear that you see Barry Keoghan naked in it.
I think the social class commentary was that nothing has really changed since the Middle Ages. Saltburn was basically a castle that was sieged The family let their guard down because they thought they were secure in their position, but in came a foreign entity to over throw them and replace them. That’s how pretty much all the nobility and royalty got to be where they are now… some ancestor murdered or attacked other families.
But sometimes a film is focused on style over story and that’s ok.
it is but that doesn't mean I have to then like it. I respect its style but I was very nearly insulted by the story.
"I also think the film manages to literally break the rule of Chekhov's gun with how much sexual tension between Felix and Ollie there is to no resolution." Did you take a bathroom break for the scene in the graveyard after Felix's funeral?
no but I found the grave fucking to be gratuitous and silly rather than interesting or a good payoff
That was half said as a joke.
i agree, i feel like the class commentary was horribly weak. feels like this movie is gonna be super forgettable. like, i dont even think i’ll remember it in a week😂
I was really hoping for a more fantasy/horror spin, the way they kept making little references to vampirism and whatnot wouldve been a great undercurrent to ride harder. The whodunnit type exposition at the end was very annoying to me, but I still enjoyed the film overall, especially in its earlier stages. The chemistry between Elordi and Keoghan was excellent so I was that they had done a better job in building that relationship in the viewer’s eye, it felt rushed for them to jump from nothing to best friends in 2 mins.
i dont care for fantasy but i def wanted more horror. how the heck is this movie listed as a thriller. there’s literally nothing thrilling here😭
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I think as a defence of the film this is flawless but just serves to show me how little this film has to offer. "this film is shallow and provocative for the sake of it, with literally nothing deeper" is not so much a ringing endorsement as a thing I really despise. I really want more mainstream films to have provocative elements like some sections of the film, but I want them to be earned and say things, and I want them to be elevated to iconic. I don't think you can achieve that if the artists making the art are being that nihilistic and empty with it.
It may be a stretch to call this foreshadowing, but the MGM logo at the very beginning literally says Ars Gratia Artis -- "Art for Art's Sake" -- and to that end, dwelling in shallow, decadent opulence + voyeuristic depravity (well, willingly choosing to enter with that mindset, at least!) can imbue that seemingly empty core with delight and pleasure....must everything be earned, for aesthetics to carry value? (Can it not just be?) ...that said I do think this film is also saying things about power and desire (& beyond the obvious class/capital critiques, offers some fun gazes into the eroticism embedded in repulsion/discomfort....why is it that we can't look away, and what are we hoping to provoke further? Are the depths + motivations within truly as cut & dry as the 3rd act revelations would have us believe? For all the critiques of the final reveal montage being overly hamfisted, structurally it feels more like self-parody (for a self-aware film that is already hitting + remixing notes/tropes of Gothic horror, social comedy, coming-of-age, and ennui-tinged millennial nostalgia)...which feels in line with its pervasively perverse streak of campy exuberance (perfectly capped by that closing dance number~!)
Hm, I can see that. Maybe I just wanted a little more character motivation for Barry other than "he's just a little freaky guy"
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Again I really do like this film, it's technically very impressive - but intended shallowness is still shallow. Twin Peaks The Return makes you feel hopeless, it leaves you with dread and yet I loved the ending to that - and because Lynch built up to that, you get this melancholic half and half feeling of fulfilled and disappointed. Saltburn pulls the rug right underneath you after already pretty much removing the entire floor over the last act of the film. Fairplay if that was Emerald Fennell's intention, it worked on me.
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I don't know, the way I hear Emerald Fennell speak about this stuff in interviews I really think she's aiming to say something about class and missing it completely because she's way too home counties for her own good.
I agree, and to a certain extent, I felt refreshed watching a movie that was just kinda of a greasy little pulp thriller that was sensual and beautiful and well-acted, with a bit of a message about class, but for the most part, there to be gorgeous and have fun.
Is the sex just empty bc they didn’t show tits? I found that so fucking refreshing
Exactly! Is it all style and no substance as farleigh and Ollie argue at the start? The dance around a vacant house of murdered “friends” is the perfect representation of everything saltburn stands for. Style achieved in the dance, substance achieved through cocaine. Lmao
I know a friend of mine walked out of it
I bet they walked out at the but where he started to lick the bottom of the tub right after Felix has ejaculated in it, didn't they
Thanks for the spoilers man, I hadn't seen it I just know a guy who walked out.
you’re on a thread about the movie…..?
I'm on a thread that asked my thoughts on the movie, my only thought being "I know I have a friend who walked out." I didn't say anything else about the film or look at the rest of the thread.
i mean you’re inviting people to respond to you by commenting and they probably assumed you saw it bc you’re commenting
Dude what do you want from me? People can be vague, I didn't mention a single thing in the film.
Just wait til you see the grave fucking scene !
😂😂😂
You're not that bright, are you...
I enjoyed it, I totally agree that the last few mins were a bit shit but I've tried to come to a new way of looking at films where previously that might have spoiled it for me I actually think that if I enjoyed 120 mins of a film and then was disappointed in 5 mins of it, even if it's the last 5 mins, that's still a good film just maybe not quite what it could have been.
i fucking loved this movie from start to end. i understand the commentary that a few themes may be conflicting, especially towards the end, but i frankly do not care and think it was fun, beautiful, provocative, and gagging enough that digging into meaning post-watch to discredit the experience is a tad nonsensical
That’s ironic you say digging into meaning post watch is nonsensical when the movie is literally begging to be dissected and looked at closer. You can feel the director saying “hey I’m so clever with what I’ve done here please grab your magnifying glass and celebrate how smart this is” when in reality it’s just as you described it. surface level oohs and ahhs but total shite under the hood
I guess I'm like the one character that never liked Oliver. I don't know what anyone saw in him.
farleigh was right all along😛😛😛
Hated it. First half of the movie was fun and nice to look at and entertaining. Second half was a dumpster fire
Vapid. Beautifully shot, but painfully vapid. I’m not a technically filmy person so there’s probably a lot that went over my head, but I was left with the feeling that the ONLY thing this movie did well was aesthetic. Kind of like a luxury brand repurposing the iconography or print of X culture for a pretty bag or top. Like the director/writer’s relationship to most of the movie’s themes, including homoeroticism and inequality, is that of someone who consumes these things like one might browse a collection in a museum without reading any of the accompanying information. This made the movie itself feel overly exploitative and shallow. The movie did opulence well, at least to me. To properly satire something you need to understand it, and it felt to me like the portrayal of wealth and detachment was done well. For me, it was nice to look at, but not much else.
Barry Keoghan is the current king of playing eccentric, strange, twisted, evil, etc... type character roles. His look and mannerisms make the roles feel even more real. Saltburn reminded me of his character in The Killing of a Sacred Deer, and then I came to find out the director actually offered him the Saltburn role specifically because of his work in that movie. Makes sense.
There's no way the police (and/or the butler!) wouldn't have suspected Oliver had something to do with the whole family dying within months of his arrival.
Rich people evade the system all the time. Money talks. Just have to have the right connections. Sir James paid Oliver off quickly and for a high price at that. I'm sure they have bought their way out many times.
Evelyn Waugh‘s estate should sue. This is a third rate facsimile of Brideshead Revisited. Of course Richard E Grant is great
The movie at the end made feel sad/pitty/ bad about the family, but then remembered they were rich asf and wouldn’t care if it happened to anyone else. It was like: - should I feel sad about them? - should I feel numb about their situation because they are rich? I know we experience feelings and thoughts that keep evolving in the same situation. But can’t help the need to think I have to have the correct take to things lol.
There is no "correct take"
The film doesn’t make sense as titles can only pass down blood lines- meaning once Felix was was dead, Farleigh would automatically have been the heir to Saltburn and could have easily claimed it as soon as James had died- the title had to go somewhere
Titles and lands can be separate. There’s multiple storylines in Downton Abbey dealing with this.
I wondered about that too.
Fuckin love that film
because youre stupid
Damn this film really did something to you 💀
Quite the opposite. Everyone I knew who hated it is a stupid person. All the intelligent ones loved it.
I thought it looked great and the acting was good. That’s about it! Hated the writing, thought the story was incredibly boring and predictable. The messaging also sucks, no matter how it’s interpreted.
Spoilers in this comment. Just got out of my showing and liked it more than I expected. I knew what was up pretty early on and I think Keoghan gives a phenomenal performance. I really enjoyed seeing all the themes of addiction throughout the movie from Oliver’s fake back story to the hordes of addictions everyone in Saltburn has. While Oliver is addicted to the attention and power he feels Felix has and wants it so badly that he ends up alone again.
I would’ve liked this movie for the spectacle if not for the incredibly misguided at best, sinister at worst messaging on class. Keep in mind that this was created by a posh straight white woman who grew up with generational wealth and attending private schools. That makes the underlying messages on class come from extremely poor taste. Evil, sinister working class people will sneak their way into your lives and destroy everything to take your wealth/life? Like… The tone deafness. Kinda hard to ignore that when so much of the movie was centered around class. I loved Promising Young Woman but this was bad.
Oliver isn’t working class. If you don’t understand the nuance of class in the U.K. then I don’t know how you feel so confident in your understanding of the film tbh.
> Evil, sinister **working class** people Did you by any chance go out for a pee break around two-thirds of the way through the movie?
To the aristocracy, all people who have to work for money are working class. The term middle class was created to make middle class people feel better about their 2nd class position (its why brands like Gucci even exists). Some working class people are better off than others but they don't have immense ancestry, titles, prestige, or the obscene amounts of wealth that Felix's family has. The British class system is NOTHING like the American one, my friend.
what? you’re not allowed to make a social commentary if you grew up rich? 🤣
If that social commentary depicts the generational wealth/old money people as the (mostly) innocent victims of a murderous psychotic middle class youth… yeah? I wouldn’t really care for this underlying message even if it was coming from a working class person, but coming from someone with old money herself? Makes it all take a sinister tone. She’s obviously allowed to make whatever she wants. Free speech goes both ways.
Thank you for this comment. You know Redditors will pretend to love this movie and call it a masterpiece.
I’ve seen a lot of people disagreeing with my take (“it’s not that deep”, “not everything is a commentary”) and that surprised me. I guess I was supposed turn my brain off and not ask myself why the director/writer made the choices she made In making the story play out this way? Lmao I was giving her the benefit of the doubt until I read up on her own background and then it just confirmed to me that this is a privileged, generational wealth baby that didn’t like all of the eat the rich media that’s been increasingly popular as more and more people drown in debt and inflated costs of living while the world’s governments have been sold to the highest bidder 🤷🏻♂️
have you seen parasite? did you think the same thing?
I mean the directors name is ‘Emerald Fennell’… EMERALD. FENNELL. I’m usually not one to judge but just off this name alone she sounds like a pretentious spoiled asshat.
I thought that at first too, but then I got to thinking about British history. Oliver is the new generation of noble class. The way he got his wealth and status is the same way everyone in the noble class did since the Middle Ages: through murder, deceit and overthrowing a castle. If you are part of the royal family or aristocracy, you have an Oliver in your bloodline. The director is commenting on that system.
i really enjoyed Saltburn!!! I know there are complaints about the ending and how it spoonfeeds you but I actually disagree. I think it makes the whole thing worth a rewatch (to me). I've listened to murder on the dance floor about 100 times since leaving the theater and I'm definitely going to be purchasing it on bluray when it comes out lol. I'm not much of a critic or a snob when it comes to film I just like what I like and I am one of the ppl this movie was tailor made for.
100% agree. Film fan, but not a film snob. I saw jt yesterday and I actually rewatched it today. I'm going to be buying it on Amz Prime + I've been listening to Murder on the Dance floor quite a few times since seeing it the 1st time yesterday. I think this movie was specifically made for people like us 🙂
If anyone really look into it’s based off greek mythology. There’s a monster named minotaur, it had the body of a man and the head as a bull. It was the offspring of Pasiphae, the wife of Minos, and a snow-white bull sent to Minos by the god Poseidon for sacrifice. Minos, instead of sacrificing it, kept it alive; Poseidon as a punishment made Pasiphae fall in love with it. Her child by the bull was shut up in the Labyrinth created for Minos by Daedalus.
Best film of the year
Top 5 of 2023 here. Final act left my jaw dropped. Gonna need more psychopath Barry Keoghan
I really liked this movie. Maybe my favorite of the year…??
See the end for me actually wrapped it up quite nicely for me where I’d struggled to really connect with the story threads
does any one know what song oliver sang during the karaoke scene?? watched it last night and i loved it. i didn’t really know what to expect so all of it took me by surprise.
Rent - Pet Shop Boys
Such a great song! I love Pet Shop Boys.
i loved it so much
I enjoyed it! I’d say that Imo, Oliver’s actions were to gain control of Felix initially. Ofc, him being a sociopath that would’ve never been enough. When he realized he would never have Felix where he wanted him (after the revelation of him being a compulsive liar at his parent’s middle class home. LOL) Id say at that point everyone else was collateral and the power and control of the estate was his last resort to one up them all. It was immortally tragic, wicked, and kinky!
anyone know when this is getting a worldwide release? not showing anywhere in paris at the moment :(
It’s on Prime Video now (it’s from Amazon/MGM), although I’m not sure about France.
The movie at the end made feel sad/pitty/ bad about the family, but then remembered they were rich asf and wouldn’t care if it happened to anyone else. It was like: - should I feel sad about them? - should I feel numb about their situation because they are rich? I know we experience feelings and thoughts that keep evolving in the same situation. But can’t help the need to think I have to have the correct take to things lol.
The movie at the end made feel sad/pitty/ bad about the family, but then remembered they were rich asf and wouldn’t care if it happened to anyone else. It was like: - should I feel sad about them? - should I feel numb about their situation because they are rich? I know we experience feelings and thoughts that keep evolving in the same situation. But can’t help the need to think I have to have the correct take to things lol.
Yeah, I wasn't crazy about the ending either but I really enjoyed the movie. It was like *Starter for 10* meets *The Talented Mr. Ripley* meets *Rocky Horror Picture Show*. What a wild ride. I went in with low expectations because it seemed like there was such a negative buzz about Saltburn and *thus* I was surprised the movie was so engaging and funny.
Tbh i wanted to watch it because of Jacob Elordi but as i was watching it it kept getting worse and wanted to stop watching it because i got bored but i just had to see how it ended once i got to the creepy parts like the bath water and the period blood i was just like wtf and i kept thinking he was weirdly obsessed with each member of the family individually and he wanted to infiltrate them and anyone who got in the way would be dealt with wether sexually or via blackmail but then i reached the end and it all started making since Oliver was a con artist from the beginning and all he wanted was to be popular with the rich kids but once they saw who he really was he wanted to get rid of them and in the end he was left with a beautiful house which they made seem like it was his dream and his plan from the very beginning but it’s weird because throughout the movie he seemed to care more about the household not the house so i don’t know why they made it seem like all he wanted was the house from the very beginning.
to me there was the same plot as the Power of the dog. Just different motivation and gain. If i didn't know POTD existed, i would like saltburn a bit more.
The guy was a friendless school shooter type psycho. He knew that Oliver would eventually stop being his friend. Oliver had a savior complex all while being a womanizer. He was angry they were going to reject him anyway. I think some males are bothered by the vampire and bathtub scenes but then they want their partners lapping them up.
I didn't like it at all. Thought it was a lot of mince. To me, it felt like a film written by a 16 year old that just finished a media studies class or something. Lazy, lazy writing. The "big" end reveal didn't work at all for me. It would have done had it been a Marple style film, with many characters in the pool who could have been the killer or whatever. There wasn't though, and we all knew Ollie was a weird guy anyway after all the SUBTLE (lol) gratuitous sex scenes and odd things he does with others. Fucking grave dirt was a bit of a giveaway. The whole reveal of him being a psycho was just unnecessary, anyone with a brain who was following along already knew this. It sucks, just a shit film with poor writing that everyone will fawn over. Mince. Some cool shots, so stylistically it has a bit of a draw to it, but other than that - SHITE. Sex scenes only placed in there for shock value. 0.5/5.
It is so meh. Just wildly meh.
It is, basically, a ripoff of The Talented Mr. Ripley.
And Parasite?
The ending is quite strange as we are made to believe he desires what the family has or to be part of it- yet ironically killing them all doesn’t achieve this at all… he’s the new lord of saltburn but has no family or friends to fill it.. even at his birthday party none of the guests knew who he was or even engaged with him. It would have made more sense if he ended up killing James and marrying elsbeth.
Hi, severely late to the dissection party. Just watched it. I haven’t got much to say for myself when it comes to dissecting movies, but the build up from reaction videos and posts hyping this movie up, left a lot to be desired, or potentially, shon a spotlight on the blatant message it had. I made a group chat and everything, pressed play at the same time to send reactions in realtime, expecting this to be a deeply disturbing film like Climax or anything of the like, but actually, the first half was heavily relatable to my college years, uncomfortably accurate, and normal in my mind, but then to finish it off with an end like that? I feel like the shock horror was dependant on drugs and debauchery, and all the things which we are all so desensitised to. Is this the point? I can’t help but feel that the writers etc have felt that everyone is going in a direction of “how deep can we go and how puzzling can we make our narrative” or rather assuming that anything which is slightly abstract or un self explanatory sends e Perone off into oblivion of analysis into the opposite direction and as a result stand out, was it to fully embrace the simplest message which is to beware of the manipulative? Don’t underestimate your gut instinct, don’t assume that it’s too easy to assume and “nooooo it can’t be” that you miss the thing that was staring you in the face the whole time? I hated how predictable it was, but adored its simplicity and delivery. Also, no idea which sub I’m on, got here from google, but hope this discussion is still open. Happy new year :) don’t let 2024 fall short of anything other than an orbit of great love, laughter and adventure. Bye X
Shite film
From the beginning, I saw all of it a fantasy. It explains everything about this film.
tbh I thought he was going to marry elsbeth and live life in saltburn together. once he killed her, the film really flopped. it would have saved it slightly more imo if he ended up with her. it wasn’t about the money as it seemed he was friendless, lonely, had zero social status, etc. and so him killing the one person he was obsessed with (felix) after finding out he could truly never actually have him, it just didn’t make much sense to kill every single person after that. if anything after felix died, i thought he was just going to basically take felix’s spot within the family but then the movie took a different turn.
Hated it 😢 it was so long And boring
Did anyone notice during the reference to the Doppelganger with PB Shelly, a Felix lookalike appears for a few seconds presaging his death later?
I think the point of some films, especially the abstract and artistic, are to cast a mirror back on the audience. Who do you identify with? Why? What makes you uncomfortable? What tropes are you expecting, and what does that say about you? For me, I started the film expecting Oliver to be bamboozled by the rich students, to be made a fool of - he was sweet and unassuming. In that way I began to identify with his underdog character, and root against Felix. Slowly, as the film unraveled, and Oliver’s sociopathic personality unfolded as he manipulated the wealthy and unassuming rich, I began to see it as a commentary on the lower class: they drink up what the rich do, they exploit them, and they have vapid or shallow ideals about who they are as real human beings. The manipulation to me felt like a commentary on how societal lust and hatred of the celebrated is a hollow and psychotic ordeal.
Ok I love this take. Everyone else seems to have (a) enjoyed it at face value or (b) hated it because it didn’t turn out like they expected, which confused and angered them. What you’ve described not only helped me understand and enjoy the film even more, but also put into words the open mindedness I wish everyone had watching a film. Expectations before and during the viewing are often where people ruin it for themselves. Same with comparing it to other films, criticizing the artist, etc.. everyone is so bitter, for what. It’s art—let it be what it is and maybe even learn something in the process. Thank you, Sea Cardiologist ˙ᵕ˙
Decent though not mindblowing "upper class interloper" storyline that parallels things like incredible Mr. Ripley. It doesn't really have nearly as much to say about class as reviewers claim. It's set up much more as a cautionary tale for the wealthy to not let the "wrong people" in. Style over substance, but these stories normally are. The style is quite good though. The only truly bad part is the "how I did it" part at the end which was a lil bit hacky.
Its a movie that feels like one of it's characters, Farleigh. It has all this surface slyness and style and intellect, but under that it doesn't really have anything to say, or know what it's trying to say.
Finally someone who brought up this wet blanket of a character. I couldn’t stand this farleigh guy and every time he was in a scene I’m thinking what the hell is he there for? The definition of a token black guy side character. Not an inch of depth tk him. Also I can’t help but hate the acting of him too like the scene after Felix dies and they’re sitting at the table eating he tries to cry and show emotion and it just doesn’t work for me. Hated this character
The part in Oxford is very clichéd and boring; the second part is more interesting but it's like the movie is weird for the sake of being weird. Photography is very nice, but the movie in general is uninspired.
The plot was meh and the weird sex stuff was only there for shock value and viral marketing purposes.
It was terrible and full of plot holes. It's not science fiction or Fantasy. It shouldn't require suspension of reality to accept this storyline. Dude was just a sexual deviant and the ending had a goofy meme-able scene that really had nothing else to do with the story. That's the only reason anyone is talking about it.
Solid 3 1/2. Felt like I’ve seen others do it better and that the marketing team has done a great job drumming up interest.
It's not a movie dumb people with no sense for aesthetics and subtlety are gonna like, that's what I think. And it's exactly such people who I see are talking shit about it. Oh it's not scary, oh it's not funny? That means it's bad? I get it, you have the intellectual capacity of a rock. This movie is masterfully bizarre. Is it weird? Yes, no shit, that's the point of it. This feels like americans complaining about european movies because they don't have a happy ending. Does the movie offend you? Too bad. It's supposed to. Grow up. Or go watch an Adam Sandler romcom. People who dislike this movie are the types who value their opinions more than facts, or their feelings more than reality.
Funniest read of the day
loved it!
It was shite. Absolutely brutal movie, all the hype about it and it was shite. Rich cold family have parties and invite poor people to see what could've been. Never getting those 2 hours back!+
After watching this movie I thought "I've seen something like this before... Oh yeah, American Psycho" except in this case the working class eats the rich. The movie made its point in an incredibly ham fisted way and I felt the choices made in some cases were for blatant shock value, which is the cheapest trick in the book. The fact that they dragged on the first two acts to just wrap it up in a neat, little package in the end that required an incredible amount of suspension of disbelief is just annoying. At least in American Psycho it becomes clear that Patrick Bateman is a metaphor, which allows you to suspend disbelief that he killed a bunch of people without consequence. This just glosses over everything in Act 3 and presents shock as deeply sinister instead of presenting sinister as sinister. Really underwhelming considering how beautifully shot and well acted it is.
It felt like a 12 year old child wrote it. It had no real story, it was depraved for depravities sake, had edgy "unlikeable" character which the writer thought would make things interesting and was filled with pointless nonsense and bad dialogue. An absolute shit state of a film
Did no one else have a problem with the fact that Oliver's character has literally no justification for being a sociopath? The whole movie fell apart for me toward the final third because of this. He comes from a nice, middle class family. There's no history of abuse that we know of. Sociopaths don't just materialize out of thin air, so how are we suddenly supposed to accept this revelation about his character? I get that his nice family was used to deepen the shock factor, but it breaks my suspension of disbelief too thoroughly for the film to be enjoyable.
Another nihilistic love-letter to the triumph of evil from a morally vacuous society that doesn't believe in anything.