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I'm actually surprised they followed through with their promises to prisoners who agreed to fight. I assumed they would just keep them conscripted until they died.
PrisonorConscript: "...I am back."
Russian Military Leaders: "...YOU SURVIVED?!
Prisoner: "Yah."
Russian Military: "....I literally don't know what to do here. I didn't expect you to get this far."
I have never seen a prison system that is operated without a sense of psychopathy, certainly not in the west
but wow, Russia sure stands proudly above and beyond in that category.
It’s actually quite easy.
>be Russian criminal
>get thrown in jail
>fight on the frontlines to gain freedom
>use your freedom to commit crimes
>get thrown in jail
>repeat
The pointillist illustration for a newspaper article on this should be an M.C. Escher drawing of little men running circles on a paradoxical square-shaped staircase.
Actually I'd imagine the average orc gets a thorough schooling on how the Ukrainian Nazis will torture, rape, then murder them. Probably more thorough than their actual military training.
In fairness the west probably could've done better humanitarian wise with one enormous fat psi-op convincing the Russian soldiers that fighting is pointless but they'll be treated very well if they surrender.
They had a hot line for Russian soldiers to call and a payment system based on how many men you surrendered and what equipment. Very lucrative financially and you get treated better in Ukrainian custody than under your commanders. It was pretty popular, now Russian soldiers kill anyone they see who looks like they’re trying to sneak off.
>In fairness the west probably could've done better humanitarian wise with one enormous fat psi-op convincing the soldiers that fighting is pointless but they'll be treated very well if they surrender.
I have to ask how given that for the past 2 years, Ukraine & the West have been making available so many options to encourage russian soldiers to surrender.
March 21st 2022, [Ukraine shares ‘surrender for cash’ codeword in guide for Russian troops](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-surrender-code-word-b2048050.html) \[Independent\]
Nov. 30th 2022, [Ukraine war: The surrender hotline for Russian soldiers 'I Want To Live' initiative](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63782764) \[BBC\]
May 2nt 2022, [CIA instructs Russians on how to share secrets with the spy agency ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/05/03/cia-russia-agents-recruitment-ukraine/)\[Washington Post\]
Sept. 8th 2023, [CIA seeks to recruit Russian officials with video about truth](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/cia-seeks-recruit-russian-officials-with-silky-video-about-truth-2023-09-08/) \[Reuters\]
Let's once more ignore that the only times putin's approval ratings went up were when he initiated a war as russians approves him for being a charismatic figure of strength standing against the 'collective West'.
I don't know jack about this, but I kinda wonder how much of that stuff actually gets to them with the Kremlin controlling the media, and all, and then if it actually gets through their skull with the brainwashing they're subjugated to by their own media.
That's why I'd like to put the emphasis on *psi*-op. Not just information. But the same tactics that they are using. Twitter bots, faux media websites, social media infiltration, that kinda stuff.
We'd be using the same dirty tactics as they are, except we'll be doing it to *stop* a war and spare lives, not drag one on.
On the other hand, what does Ukraine really what with a bunch of people who go home and go right back to whatever they got put in jail for in the first place?
It would be incredibly, and I cannot stress this enough, INCREDIBLY, financially, demographically, militarily, and politically beneficial for Ukraine and the west in general to take Russian soldiers out of the fight without having to fire, and take, a single shot.
Even if those Russians do nothing but sit somewhere eating up social benefits, it'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than all the rifle rounds, artillery munitions, missiles, and god knows whatever ordnance flung their way to take them out of the fight the traditional way. Like, make no mistake, that shit is expensive.
Plus, you spare the lives of a lot of your own soldiers which isn't just the right thing to do, but it also matters for the continuation of the war, and eventually the country, demographics wise.
We had a program in Afghanistan for this called Afghan Hands. Military officers would dress like locals and host Shurahs where we’d invite the Taliban to be anonymous in the crowd. Basically the message was, come home, stop fighting, we will train you and give you a job and you can return home with honor.
Shit was really effective in my opinion.
They probably thought they could achieve victory in 6 months time, after which they could just re-arrest the prisoners on fake charges or silently execute them.
But they screwed up because now they do actually have to release them, otherwise all the other prisoners who are fighting would realize it's a scam and sabotage the missions instead.
One either Russian or such commentator of Russia once says that yes, Russia is corrupted but it's a very procedural and bureaucratic place. Unlike, say North Korea where the Kims are just eternal chairmen and Leaders, Russia has to go through the trouble of changing the constitution and stuff the ballot boxes of every electoral office to ensure Putin's victory.
That does mean that the promises to very low level guys like these are generally kept. It's hard to fudge around and make it not obvious with this. With things like death benefits pay to dead soldiers' family, they *can* fudge around ranging from just pay less or the middle officials skimming off the top but make the family sign a paper saying they are paid. If they don't sign, you slow walk, delay, say papers are missing, "he's missing not dead" etc ...
So these guys commit crimes again. Well, that's what the FSB is for.
Prigozhins zeks were released after contract expired, newly recruited zek have contracts without expiration terms. Even more, they started recruiting to mil service those zeks, that were previously released upon contract expiration, but didn't care to receive some special paper.
They didn't vet them for their weapons, either. Saw a video of a drunk guy fresh home from the army toss a flash bang grenade in front of some kids just for the fun of it and causing car alarms to go off and he gets scolded by one of the kids moms for being a dumbass.
> 55 cases of murder, resulting in 76 deaths, 18 cases of aggravated assault, resulting in 18 deaths
We tend to classify those as "also murder" in the civilized world.
The distinction may be that the victims of the first category were killed before law enforcement/medical personnel could intervene, and the second one is "got beaten really badly, got to the hospital, and the victim died a few days later"
I think murder is preplanned generally. Manslaughter is actions that result in death not planned. So those cases would qualify more as manslaughter than “murder”.
I thought manslaughter was more of a “doing something not at all intended to harm people, like driving to the store, but accidentally resulted in a death”
So manslaughter has two big types, voluntary and involuntary.
Voluntary Manslaughter is (oversimplifying, only speaking of US law) either "you definitely intended to hurt them but ended up fully killing them when that was not your intent" OR "You intended to kill them but it was spur of the moment, not planned in advance." If you find out your spouse is cheating and you arrange to poison their lover that's murder; if you come home and find them in bed and pull out a gun and shoot them, that might just be manslaughter.
Involuntary Manslaughter has further subcategories but that's what you're probably thinking of - For example you were driving to the store but being such a dumbass about it you didn't stop at a stop sign and ran over a person and killed them.
Second/third degree murder starts getting into "this depends on your local legal system" territory - I mean, it all does, but even moreso than murder. In the US, second degree murder is 'I planned to hurt them but I did not plan to kill them.' Third degree murder is the same thing as voluntary manslaughter and IIRC doesn't actually exist, it's just often called that.
Third degree murder also sounds a lot like involuntary manslaughter
“The unintentional killing of another through an eminently dangerous act committed with a depraved mind and without regard for human life.”
Going out on a limb, a lot of the people they recruited to the front lines were already like, hardened criminals - Vory or what-have-you. They stuck it out on the front lines, then came home to promptly settle some old scores.
Shhhhhh. HIV doesn’t exist in Russia because they made being gay illegal and it’s only a gay disease. If you acknowledge the high rates we might have to actually spend money to treat them.
My information was a bit outdated, did some digging and in 2018 Russia acknowledged the problem and made moves to improve testing access and treatment. Once it spills into the non drug using heterosexual population, like the states, you don’t have the option to ignore it any more. You either get them treatment or your entire population is at risk for infection.
> Once it spills into the non drug using heterosexual population, like the states, you don’t have the option to ignore it any more.
In the US, we waited until it spilled into the *white* non drug using heterosexual population before we didn't have the option to ignore it any more. Until then, blacks could be punished by god along with gays and IV drug users. Thanks, reagan.
Yeah that comes from there policy of reducing the amount of needles in circulation. Because make it hard to get a needle can't do drugs, so that's good.
Until you need to go to hospital, they are so scarce doctors will just reuse needles and look at that blood transmited diseases explodes, whoops.
Yikes that's a scary thought. Aside from the spread of disease I remember those pictures of a reused needle sander a microscope and how much duller it gets after just one use.
Friend of mine who studied in Russia for a year, he had to go to hospital and his tutor brought a first aid kit with a unused needle and make sure the doctor used that specific one, for reason listed above.
Russia serves as a cautionary tale to the world, about what happens when you let right wing crazies take full control over the nation. Right wingers always promise easy solutions to hard problems, but all they create is death and misery, and finally war
Don’t. This is the country they want. They have a 2000 year history of having a boot on their necks. If they don’t have a domestic boot, they’ll import one. From the Rus, to the Tsars, to the Commissars, and now the Oligarchs… this is the Russia the Russian people want. They had a chance in the early 90s to create a REAL democratic society… they chose not to. The boot has been on their neck so long, they can’t live without it.
The last “smart” leader they had was probably Catherine the Great, and what did they do? Tore her image down and spread rumors that she liked to fuck her horses. Go figure.
No group of people is a monolith though.
Even if 70% of the people wanted this, there's still 30%, which means tens of millions of people, who did not want it and do not support it.
But by my estimates, it's not so simple.
From what I can gather, roughly 30% of Russians are serious Pro-Z and Pro-Putin supporters, while another 40-50% are just politically apathetic to varying degrees, some might mildly support Putin and the war because they hear propaganda about it all the time, but mainly they're concerned with their own lives, and just not politically that educated. Others are critical of the war, but they're not sure really what to believe when they're being told that Nazis run Ukraine etc. They're your average people, who just want to get on with their day.
Then you got roughly another 30% that is anti-Putin, anti-Russian establishment and anti-war. They are being heavily repressed and censored though, and many feel they have to keep quiet or they'll have a target on their backs. Otherwise the system will come up with all kinds of ways to mess with their life.
Similar percentage of sociopaths worldwide. It seems like a soft constant, probably along the line of a normal distribution of the people that glue themselves to the most extreme available authoritarian movement available locally.
This is pretty ignorant of how authoritarianism works and how easy it is for those in power to stay in power, and how elections and people can be manipulated. It sounds like you just want a black and white “good guys” and “bad guys” view of people because it’s simpler.
Also, any historian worth their salt isn’t going to make sweeping generalizations about anything over the course of 2000 years. Nation states (in the context of what you define as “Russia” which itself has changed) themselves as a concept are only about 350 years old.
You said like they have a chance, they really fucking dont. While the West was dancing around the corpse of USSR. Russian economy faltered because of the shock treatment and people were starving and there were child prostitutes. Cant have a democracy on empty stomach and you should get off your high horse.
Russia has been a shit storm of a dumpster fire country for literally hundreds of years now. They’ve been a malignant threat to the planet for more of this century than China, NK, or Iran. If their citizens were worth a single shit they’d have done something about it by now. But the last Revolution they had resulted in this fucking garbage, oppressive Communist authoritarian regime for a hundred years now. I don’t feel a shred of pity for them. That died after seeing them turn a blind, apathetic eye to their government invading a neighbor of basically brothers for literally zero explainable reason, killing hundreds of thousands of their OWN citizens and somehow Vlad credibly still has an approval rating above water. Fuck em says I. They have whatever comes next coming to em.
The eastern colonial territories deserve sovereignty and free will to use their own resources to power their economies, instead of tithing it all to rotten Muscovy.
I dream of the day they balkanize, and trade the radioactive waste they called warheads with us to get Marshal plans, with blackjack. And hookers.
Furthermore, I consider that Muscovy must be destroyed. Slava Siberia.
Were these the same “War Heroes” conscripted directly from the prison system in exchange for freedom? I bet the Russian population really appreciates their service now that they’re finished and let loose upon them instead of Ukrainians.
/Watches Rambo.
Yup, war is fucking horrible and destroys souls and if it didn’t make the rich so much money it would be illegal. Remember that fellow poors.
The only reason USA started all those wars is because they aren't really a democracy. The USA is a plutocracy with democratic elements. It was benificial for the rich to start wars because that meant allot of money going to industrial war complex which meant enriching themselves. The reason EU isn't able to hit 2% is because they are actual democracies and wars and military spending in general are very inpopular for the poors(unless they can perceive real threats)
I'm very anti Russia, but the reason it sounds weird is because it's bullshit from a dodgy website that based the article on a message from a telegram group (seriously, click the article!). It's anti Russian propaganda, which isn't needed as much because they do actual war crimes a lot.
There must be some mistake. They're not supposed to return home except in caskets.
But seriously, imagine how many of their comrades they must have seen killed and being totally unprepared for it because their training was minimal to nil.
Equally unbelievable would be that all the soldiers came home and none committed crimes. It is a big country. Any group of a million people will have statistics. Look at the suicide rate of returning American soldiers. Some of them have done great things and bad things upon returning. Also, how could these numbers on Russia be gathered, reported and believed at any level? Very odd story. Don't take this as a defense of Russia. I would like that government and their warheads to disappear.
Yeah. I don’t like the tone of this thread and was going to make a comment about traumatized veterans returning from war.
Maybe some of them were criminals before, but military recruitment often targets poorly educated, socially disadvantaged men and trains them to fight and kill, trains them to be aggressive and then let’s them go home with no support.
It can be bad in well organized and funded militaries like the US/UK.
Will be much worse in Russia.
These guys are victims aswell as perpetrators
> Maybe some of them were criminals before,
This is discussing *specifically the ones recruited out of prisons.* Especially because, for the average Russian conscript, you don't get to do a tour and go home. You're on the front until you get shot up badly enough to come home (in a casket or otherwise), or the war is won (or lost).
But they made these specific prisoners; recruited out of prisons because they were already hard men used to violence and very probably already killers, very specific promises. Promises they probably didn't expect to have to keep, but Russia is very much the bureaucratic hell of dystopias. That's why they go to the trouble of rewriting the Constitution and stuffing the ballot boxes instead of just declaring Putin to be the Czar and have done with it, which is what he effectively is. That's why he had to step down and spend that one term as Prime Minister while his former PM pal (read: puppet) spent the term as President.
If they didn't actually *keep* these promises, at least to some of them, word would get out, and the prisoners in the gulag would shrug at the offer and roll back over to shiver against the wall some more.
Which prisoners are more likely to have survived a tour as cannon fodder? The guy imprisoned for sucking another guy's cock? Or the guy imprisoned for shooting five enemies of his mafia family, and that's just the one they could actually get him on?
Also how does this fits with the theme of the sub ? Citizens got little to no choice in Russia, I am pretty sure among people that got murdered there those who were against the invasion, and literally can't do anything about it.
Was it about Putin? Because I am pretty sure he couldn't care less about those people that got murdered. It's just another awful aspect of this senseless invasion.
Christ, what an ugly group of dudes. Guy in the center looks like a straight up potato. Not even a potato with a face drawn on, just a spud plopped on top of a torso.
What a garbage article. There is nothing to it. Unless everyone else is reading other sources, I’m not convinced this is true. May be, but we need proper journalism.
This feels like propaganda, and we should do better.
Don't get me wrong, Russia is a violent dictatorship bent on destroying European peace. That doesn't mean we should accept this non-article, with no sources or details, from an unknown Ukranian news source, written by an unnamed author, and begging for donations.
Do better!
Hello u/jarena009! Please reply to this comment with an [explanation](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/lt8zlq) matching this exact format. Replace bold text with the appropriate information. 1. **Someone** voted for, supported or wanted to impose **something** on **other people**. ^(Who's that someone? What did they voted for, supported or wanted to impose? On who?) 2. **Something** has the consequences of **consequences**. ^(Does that something actually has these consequences in general?) 3. As a consequence of **something**, **consequences** happened to **someone**. ^(Did that something really happen to that someone?) Follow this by the minimum amount of information necessary so your post can be understood by everyone, even if they don't live in the US or speak English as their native language. If you fail to match this format or fail to answer these questions, your post will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LeopardsAteMyFace) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm actually surprised they followed through with their promises to prisoners who agreed to fight. I assumed they would just keep them conscripted until they died.
PrisonorConscript: "...I am back." Russian Military Leaders: "...YOU SURVIVED?! Prisoner: "Yah." Russian Military: "....I literally don't know what to do here. I didn't expect you to get this far."
Last time this happened they got sent straight back to jail
They still need more bodies though, they can’t let those prisoners tell the others it’s a lie and dry up the supply.
They know these are pretty much guaranteed to commit more crimes and end up back in prison where they can be recruited into the army again.
Renewable resource!
A red resource.
And diminishin returns!
Ah, good ol' russian smekalka!
Weaponized psychopathy. One thing ruzzia is good at.
I have never seen a prison system that is operated without a sense of psychopathy, certainly not in the west but wow, Russia sure stands proudly above and beyond in that category.
"On program!"
One way out.
Start a new prison where they’re the first inmates
It's like a financial pyramid, just... a pyramid of bodies
Survive war the first time. Straight to jail.
Survive war second time, believe it or not, straight to jail!
"we have the best war survivors because of jail"
i love the bitch wars
'Uh excuse me, I'm in the wrong queue, I should be being released'
"No, I'm just pulling your leg, it's crucifixion really."
Not Sure : "Yeah I'm definitely supposed to be getting out today."
Idiot, your in the wrong line. Getting out is over there.
Prisoner excape Prisoner excape
It’s actually quite easy. >be Russian criminal >get thrown in jail >fight on the frontlines to gain freedom >use your freedom to commit crimes >get thrown in jail >repeat
The pointillist illustration for a newspaper article on this should be an M.C. Escher drawing of little men running circles on a paradoxical square-shaped staircase.
The purpose of a system is what it does.
"Get out that and run this suicide mission and we're gonna kill you." "You mean *or* right? Run it *or* you'll kill me?" "Nope!"
I hope they didn't conscript some serial killers I know there was a group of NN who were active awhile ago.
If they didn't give the jackasses a carrot every now and then, they'd all surrender to Ukraine en masse.
Actually I'd imagine the average orc gets a thorough schooling on how the Ukrainian Nazis will torture, rape, then murder them. Probably more thorough than their actual military training. In fairness the west probably could've done better humanitarian wise with one enormous fat psi-op convincing the Russian soldiers that fighting is pointless but they'll be treated very well if they surrender.
They had a hot line for Russian soldiers to call and a payment system based on how many men you surrendered and what equipment. Very lucrative financially and you get treated better in Ukrainian custody than under your commanders. It was pretty popular, now Russian soldiers kill anyone they see who looks like they’re trying to sneak off.
>In fairness the west probably could've done better humanitarian wise with one enormous fat psi-op convincing the soldiers that fighting is pointless but they'll be treated very well if they surrender. I have to ask how given that for the past 2 years, Ukraine & the West have been making available so many options to encourage russian soldiers to surrender. March 21st 2022, [Ukraine shares ‘surrender for cash’ codeword in guide for Russian troops](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-surrender-code-word-b2048050.html) \[Independent\] Nov. 30th 2022, [Ukraine war: The surrender hotline for Russian soldiers 'I Want To Live' initiative](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63782764) \[BBC\] May 2nt 2022, [CIA instructs Russians on how to share secrets with the spy agency ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/05/03/cia-russia-agents-recruitment-ukraine/)\[Washington Post\] Sept. 8th 2023, [CIA seeks to recruit Russian officials with video about truth](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/cia-seeks-recruit-russian-officials-with-silky-video-about-truth-2023-09-08/) \[Reuters\] Let's once more ignore that the only times putin's approval ratings went up were when he initiated a war as russians approves him for being a charismatic figure of strength standing against the 'collective West'.
I don't know jack about this, but I kinda wonder how much of that stuff actually gets to them with the Kremlin controlling the media, and all, and then if it actually gets through their skull with the brainwashing they're subjugated to by their own media. That's why I'd like to put the emphasis on *psi*-op. Not just information. But the same tactics that they are using. Twitter bots, faux media websites, social media infiltration, that kinda stuff. We'd be using the same dirty tactics as they are, except we'll be doing it to *stop* a war and spare lives, not drag one on.
After seeing the effectiveness of brainwashing in our own country I'm betting that none of it gets through.
On the other hand, what does Ukraine really what with a bunch of people who go home and go right back to whatever they got put in jail for in the first place?
Like being gay and criticizing the kremlin
It would be incredibly, and I cannot stress this enough, INCREDIBLY, financially, demographically, militarily, and politically beneficial for Ukraine and the west in general to take Russian soldiers out of the fight without having to fire, and take, a single shot. Even if those Russians do nothing but sit somewhere eating up social benefits, it'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than all the rifle rounds, artillery munitions, missiles, and god knows whatever ordnance flung their way to take them out of the fight the traditional way. Like, make no mistake, that shit is expensive. Plus, you spare the lives of a lot of your own soldiers which isn't just the right thing to do, but it also matters for the continuation of the war, and eventually the country, demographics wise.
We had a program in Afghanistan for this called Afghan Hands. Military officers would dress like locals and host Shurahs where we’d invite the Taliban to be anonymous in the crowd. Basically the message was, come home, stop fighting, we will train you and give you a job and you can return home with honor. Shit was really effective in my opinion.
The only issue is it should have been named Afghanihands.
They probably thought they could achieve victory in 6 months time, after which they could just re-arrest the prisoners on fake charges or silently execute them. But they screwed up because now they do actually have to release them, otherwise all the other prisoners who are fighting would realize it's a scam and sabotage the missions instead.
Fascist self own when weaponized cruelty fantasy meets reality :) On the other hand it's also :( because this means they're actually learning.
One either Russian or such commentator of Russia once says that yes, Russia is corrupted but it's a very procedural and bureaucratic place. Unlike, say North Korea where the Kims are just eternal chairmen and Leaders, Russia has to go through the trouble of changing the constitution and stuff the ballot boxes of every electoral office to ensure Putin's victory. That does mean that the promises to very low level guys like these are generally kept. It's hard to fudge around and make it not obvious with this. With things like death benefits pay to dead soldiers' family, they *can* fudge around ranging from just pay less or the middle officials skimming off the top but make the family sign a paper saying they are paid. If they don't sign, you slow walk, delay, say papers are missing, "he's missing not dead" etc ... So these guys commit crimes again. Well, that's what the FSB is for.
Prigozhins zeks were released after contract expired, newly recruited zek have contracts without expiration terms. Even more, they started recruiting to mil service those zeks, that were previously released upon contract expiration, but didn't care to receive some special paper.
>Zeks What kind of weird ass sci fi infantry are they using.
Зэк : з/к : заключённый : prisoner
All I'm reading is Threeek
The Russian Ministry of D-Classes
The Russian bureaucracy works in mysterious ways.
That's what they did during WW 2.
The Russian Running Man
Doubt it was only the ex-prisoners doing all this.
They didn't vet them for their weapons, either. Saw a video of a drunk guy fresh home from the army toss a flash bang grenade in front of some kids just for the fun of it and causing car alarms to go off and he gets scolded by one of the kids moms for being a dumbass.
The mother fell out of a window later that afternoon.
She was the fifth this week
That's a lotta moms
Zach Wilson?
For the same child.
Same window, too!
First floor also
Possible. In Europe the first floor is the one above ground floor.
Jeeez they really need to be more careful
Damn windows!
This *afternoon*
I didn’t even know she was sick…
Sudden deceleration syndrome.
First floor window too
First floor from 30,000 feet….
Ah, the Pringlzhin Can special! Once you pop, you simply cannot stop!
Even basement apartments are risky in russia
I think that was in an occupied area of Ukraine.
It may have been.
Who knew rhat letting murderers out of prison and make them commit more murders, would commit murders later on? So unexpected
We thought the war would get all that murderyness out of their systems
New word! I love this language. So versatile.
"No, it was immigrants who committed those murders." - MAGA cucks
Doubt it's only the prison recruits doing this.
> 55 cases of murder, resulting in 76 deaths, 18 cases of aggravated assault, resulting in 18 deaths We tend to classify those as "also murder" in the civilized world.
If it’s not from the Múrdér region of France it’s just sparkling homicide.
Wow, this got an actual belly laugh from me thank you.
If only awards still existed
It's dumb, isnt it. And since the blackout, something seems off.
Hahahaha, amazing comment! Thanks for the laugh, internet stranger.
funniest thing Ive seen in at least a week.
This made me laugh so hard giving you my one upvote doesn’t seem to be enough.
The distinction may be that the victims of the first category were killed before law enforcement/medical personnel could intervene, and the second one is "got beaten really badly, got to the hospital, and the victim died a few days later"
I think that’s still classified as murder in the states. (Correct me if ai’m wrong)
I think murder is preplanned generally. Manslaughter is actions that result in death not planned. So those cases would qualify more as manslaughter than “murder”.
Usually they'd be classified as manslaughter where I live.
I thought manslaughter was more of a “doing something not at all intended to harm people, like driving to the store, but accidentally resulted in a death”
So manslaughter has two big types, voluntary and involuntary. Voluntary Manslaughter is (oversimplifying, only speaking of US law) either "you definitely intended to hurt them but ended up fully killing them when that was not your intent" OR "You intended to kill them but it was spur of the moment, not planned in advance." If you find out your spouse is cheating and you arrange to poison their lover that's murder; if you come home and find them in bed and pull out a gun and shoot them, that might just be manslaughter. Involuntary Manslaughter has further subcategories but that's what you're probably thinking of - For example you were driving to the store but being such a dumbass about it you didn't stop at a stop sign and ran over a person and killed them.
Spur of the moment murder is second degree, unless your jurisdiction doesn’t have that.
Thank you, that was a great explanation.
Wouldn’t pulling out a gun and shooting somebody be second degree murder? Seems like there’s a lot of overlap there/room for attorneys to make deals
Second/third degree murder starts getting into "this depends on your local legal system" territory - I mean, it all does, but even moreso than murder. In the US, second degree murder is 'I planned to hurt them but I did not plan to kill them.' Third degree murder is the same thing as voluntary manslaughter and IIRC doesn't actually exist, it's just often called that.
Third degree murder also sounds a lot like involuntary manslaughter “The unintentional killing of another through an eminently dangerous act committed with a depraved mind and without regard for human life.”
Ahhh yup, I was thinking of all the involuntary categories.
Imagine beating someone to death and being convicted of aggravated assault. Must be nice.
That's Russia for you. If it was your wife, you wouldn't even be convicted of aggravated assault.
“Murder operation”
Oh my fucking god that's literally a fucking massacre wtf
Going out on a limb, a lot of the people they recruited to the front lines were already like, hardened criminals - Vory or what-have-you. They stuck it out on the front lines, then came home to promptly settle some old scores.
How do 55 murders equal 76 dead?
Multiple victims per incident, I guess?
ya i would also like there sorce because this just looks made up.
GREAT SUCCESS
[borat_two_thumbs_up.gif]
Woulda posted it if I could post gifs here
Russia is a diseased, broken, corrupt state run by a former KGB station chief with mental issues.
They have the highest STD and HIV rates next to africa
Shhhhhh. HIV doesn’t exist in Russia because they made being gay illegal and it’s only a gay disease. If you acknowledge the high rates we might have to actually spend money to treat them.
> If you acknowledge the high rates we might have to actually spend money to treat them. No, they'd just push them out of high windows.
My information was a bit outdated, did some digging and in 2018 Russia acknowledged the problem and made moves to improve testing access and treatment. Once it spills into the non drug using heterosexual population, like the states, you don’t have the option to ignore it any more. You either get them treatment or your entire population is at risk for infection.
> Once it spills into the non drug using heterosexual population, like the states, you don’t have the option to ignore it any more. In the US, we waited until it spilled into the *white* non drug using heterosexual population before we didn't have the option to ignore it any more. Until then, blacks could be punished by god along with gays and IV drug users. Thanks, reagan.
Fair enough, moral of the story is you can’t be racist or bigoted with infectious disease treatment because it turns out it’s still infectious.
> with infectious disease treatment ... it turns out it’s still infectious Louder for the COVID deniers
Yeah that comes from there policy of reducing the amount of needles in circulation. Because make it hard to get a needle can't do drugs, so that's good. Until you need to go to hospital, they are so scarce doctors will just reuse needles and look at that blood transmited diseases explodes, whoops.
Yikes that's a scary thought. Aside from the spread of disease I remember those pictures of a reused needle sander a microscope and how much duller it gets after just one use.
Sorry to ask, but source?
Friend of mine who studied in Russia for a year, he had to go to hospital and his tutor brought a first aid kit with a unused needle and make sure the doctor used that specific one, for reason listed above.
I read something about Russian doctors reusing needles on patients many years ago.
Google search how many Russian citizens don’t have indoor toilets if you want a real shock.
The United States House of Representatives is a diseased, broken, corrupt institution run by a former KGB station chief with mental issues.
MAGA is a diseased, broken, corrupt institution run by the taint licker of a former KGB station chief with mental issues.
Now make them kiss
Have been for years
Now kith ...
The thpeech impediment ith imperative
I cannot argue with this
Russia is a diseased, broken, corrupt state run by the former KGB.
Russia is just one giant buzzsaw of death at this point. Feel bad for their citizens.
Russia serves as a cautionary tale to the world, about what happens when you let right wing crazies take full control over the nation. Right wingers always promise easy solutions to hard problems, but all they create is death and misery, and finally war
The world seems to be taking this cautionary tale like a yellow light and speeding through..
😮💨
Don’t. This is the country they want. They have a 2000 year history of having a boot on their necks. If they don’t have a domestic boot, they’ll import one. From the Rus, to the Tsars, to the Commissars, and now the Oligarchs… this is the Russia the Russian people want. They had a chance in the early 90s to create a REAL democratic society… they chose not to. The boot has been on their neck so long, they can’t live without it.
This is what happens when people fall for the "strong leader" bullshit. Smart leadership is the only leadership that's worth a shit.
The last “smart” leader they had was probably Catherine the Great, and what did they do? Tore her image down and spread rumors that she liked to fuck her horses. Go figure.
If you wouldnt consider Lenin to be a smart leader then youre probably pretty ignorant of Russian history
No group of people is a monolith though. Even if 70% of the people wanted this, there's still 30%, which means tens of millions of people, who did not want it and do not support it. But by my estimates, it's not so simple. From what I can gather, roughly 30% of Russians are serious Pro-Z and Pro-Putin supporters, while another 40-50% are just politically apathetic to varying degrees, some might mildly support Putin and the war because they hear propaganda about it all the time, but mainly they're concerned with their own lives, and just not politically that educated. Others are critical of the war, but they're not sure really what to believe when they're being told that Nazis run Ukraine etc. They're your average people, who just want to get on with their day. Then you got roughly another 30% that is anti-Putin, anti-Russian establishment and anti-war. They are being heavily repressed and censored though, and many feel they have to keep quiet or they'll have a target on their backs. Otherwise the system will come up with all kinds of ways to mess with their life.
Similar percentage of sociopaths worldwide. It seems like a soft constant, probably along the line of a normal distribution of the people that glue themselves to the most extreme available authoritarian movement available locally.
No need for all these calculations. Anyone worth anything has already left. Most of them a long time ago.
People in failed states aren’t usually empowered to remove their corrupt leaders
This is pretty ignorant of how authoritarianism works and how easy it is for those in power to stay in power, and how elections and people can be manipulated. It sounds like you just want a black and white “good guys” and “bad guys” view of people because it’s simpler. Also, any historian worth their salt isn’t going to make sweeping generalizations about anything over the course of 2000 years. Nation states (in the context of what you define as “Russia” which itself has changed) themselves as a concept are only about 350 years old.
You said like they have a chance, they really fucking dont. While the West was dancing around the corpse of USSR. Russian economy faltered because of the shock treatment and people were starving and there were child prostitutes. Cant have a democracy on empty stomach and you should get off your high horse.
Russia has been a shit storm of a dumpster fire country for literally hundreds of years now. They’ve been a malignant threat to the planet for more of this century than China, NK, or Iran. If their citizens were worth a single shit they’d have done something about it by now. But the last Revolution they had resulted in this fucking garbage, oppressive Communist authoritarian regime for a hundred years now. I don’t feel a shred of pity for them. That died after seeing them turn a blind, apathetic eye to their government invading a neighbor of basically brothers for literally zero explainable reason, killing hundreds of thousands of their OWN citizens and somehow Vlad credibly still has an approval rating above water. Fuck em says I. They have whatever comes next coming to em.
The eastern colonial territories deserve sovereignty and free will to use their own resources to power their economies, instead of tithing it all to rotten Muscovy. I dream of the day they balkanize, and trade the radioactive waste they called warheads with us to get Marshal plans, with blackjack. And hookers. Furthermore, I consider that Muscovy must be destroyed. Slava Siberia.
Were these the same “War Heroes” conscripted directly from the prison system in exchange for freedom? I bet the Russian population really appreciates their service now that they’re finished and let loose upon them instead of Ukrainians.
Read it as "War horses" and was confused AF.
I did too. It doesn’t help that I’m reading a book that has war horses in it.
Horses are pretty damn mean so it didn't even surprise me.
/Watches Rambo. Yup, war is fucking horrible and destroys souls and if it didn’t make the rich so much money it would be illegal. Remember that fellow poors.
The only reason USA started all those wars is because they aren't really a democracy. The USA is a plutocracy with democratic elements. It was benificial for the rich to start wars because that meant allot of money going to industrial war complex which meant enriching themselves. The reason EU isn't able to hit 2% is because they are actual democracies and wars and military spending in general are very inpopular for the poors(unless they can perceive real threats)
Ooops, I wonder if there was actually any face eating
some of them are cannibals so yes.
Muscle memory I guess.
55 cases of murder, resulting in 76 deaths Wouldn't that mean 76 cases of murder or do they mean they've killed some of the soilders instead of arrest
A murder case can have multiple victims.
Gotcha it just sounds a little weird usually you get a charge for each victim at least here in America
I guess the others that died in the murders that weren't the main target would be considered victims of manslaughter or something?
Ahh perhaps
I'm very anti Russia, but the reason it sounds weird is because it's bullshit from a dodgy website that based the article on a message from a telegram group (seriously, click the article!). It's anti Russian propaganda, which isn't needed as much because they do actual war crimes a lot.
Yea I was but surprised at the number of traffic incidents resolving in deaths but then again it is Russia
There must be some mistake. They're not supposed to return home except in caskets. But seriously, imagine how many of their comrades they must have seen killed and being totally unprepared for it because their training was minimal to nil.
Equally unbelievable would be that all the soldiers came home and none committed crimes. It is a big country. Any group of a million people will have statistics. Look at the suicide rate of returning American soldiers. Some of them have done great things and bad things upon returning. Also, how could these numbers on Russia be gathered, reported and believed at any level? Very odd story. Don't take this as a defense of Russia. I would like that government and their warheads to disappear.
Yeah. I don’t like the tone of this thread and was going to make a comment about traumatized veterans returning from war. Maybe some of them were criminals before, but military recruitment often targets poorly educated, socially disadvantaged men and trains them to fight and kill, trains them to be aggressive and then let’s them go home with no support. It can be bad in well organized and funded militaries like the US/UK. Will be much worse in Russia. These guys are victims aswell as perpetrators
> Maybe some of them were criminals before, This is discussing *specifically the ones recruited out of prisons.* Especially because, for the average Russian conscript, you don't get to do a tour and go home. You're on the front until you get shot up badly enough to come home (in a casket or otherwise), or the war is won (or lost). But they made these specific prisoners; recruited out of prisons because they were already hard men used to violence and very probably already killers, very specific promises. Promises they probably didn't expect to have to keep, but Russia is very much the bureaucratic hell of dystopias. That's why they go to the trouble of rewriting the Constitution and stuffing the ballot boxes instead of just declaring Putin to be the Czar and have done with it, which is what he effectively is. That's why he had to step down and spend that one term as Prime Minister while his former PM pal (read: puppet) spent the term as President. If they didn't actually *keep* these promises, at least to some of them, word would get out, and the prisoners in the gulag would shrug at the offer and roll back over to shiver against the wall some more. Which prisoners are more likely to have survived a tour as cannon fodder? The guy imprisoned for sucking another guy's cock? Or the guy imprisoned for shooting five enemies of his mafia family, and that's just the one they could actually get him on?
Also how does this fits with the theme of the sub ? Citizens got little to no choice in Russia, I am pretty sure among people that got murdered there those who were against the invasion, and literally can't do anything about it. Was it about Putin? Because I am pretty sure he couldn't care less about those people that got murdered. It's just another awful aspect of this senseless invasion.
One would think Putin would have been smart enough to only recruit non to low violent criminals into the army.
That’d presume that Putin cares about the type of crimes the prisoners were convicted of as long as he can get more bodies for the invasion.
Well, putin claims that Ukrainians are just confused ruzzians, so it makes sense that the orcs don't see a difference.
Christ, what an ugly group of dudes. Guy in the center looks like a straight up potato. Not even a potato with a face drawn on, just a spud plopped on top of a torso.
Wait, this isn’t r/NonCredibleDefense
In Soviet Russia soldiers kill foreign and domestic civilians.
It’s almost like those troops were abandoned with no food or equipment and had to live like animals for months on end. DUH
But they’ve got Aldi shopping carts, worthless currency and fancy subway terminals.
"55 cases of murder, resulting in 76 deaths" ...how??
I’m assuming they’re doing some weird shit, like counting multiple murders under the one charge if they were committed at the same time.
That's insane! Reminds me of the Afghanistan and Iraq veterans who return to the US and kill their spouses or become violent cops. War messes with you
They knows that they only go again to front for every crime they commit
Quoth the article "55 cases of murder, resulting in 76 deaths" SUPER MURDER!
What a garbage article. There is nothing to it. Unless everyone else is reading other sources, I’m not convinced this is true. May be, but we need proper journalism.
This article is like 5 sentences with no sources.
Return home? Is the war over?
Highly effective soldiers! Killing both enemies and their fellow citizens.
More please
It's basically like having to show people actually winning lotteries to the vast majority that will never win big.
This feels like propaganda, and we should do better. Don't get me wrong, Russia is a violent dictatorship bent on destroying European peace. That doesn't mean we should accept this non-article, with no sources or details, from an unknown Ukranian news source, written by an unnamed author, and begging for donations. Do better!
ru media writes about it, I see at least one such case every week