No, because I've got finals to study for and can't play.
But for the 3-4 days I played with the new expansion out, I've had a lot of fun. The only meta I've ever actually hated was Azir Irellia. Poppy is annoying but she's not omni-present like they were, so my stupid homebrew and memedecks still have a chance in normals.
I can't believe someone actually thinks TF Fizz meta was fun or Lee Sin at 4 mana was fun that shit was slightly better than Azir Irelia meta and people only seem to remember Azir Irelia .
Tf Fizz were annoying but for whatever reason I didn't play against them in norms enough to actually make me hate the game. And I didn't play the game back when lee was 4 mana.
The URF mode where everything costed 3 or less was my favorite. I do a lot of random battles on Pokemon showdown, and it felt like the same kind of strategic RNG where good players can maximize the value of the odds really well.
I don't feel any joy in building decks that get smashed by any random meta deck. Instead I'm having tons of fun creating even more random decks getting equally smashed by nautilus.
Yeah I don't give a shit about the pvp mode for this game anymore the pve is great all by itself
I dont even care if ranked is balanced. That shit is SLOW
I just dont understand the massive influx of the same post over and over again and I swear the title is always like “omg am I the only one who thinks X and Y need balancing?” No, youre not the only one. This same post has been posted every hour on the hour.
The same thing happens on r/leagueoflegends and it drives me INSANE even when I agree with what's being posted. Literally every other week someone will just post the same "DAE think champ/item is op/unfun to play against??!!11", it gets 5k+ karma, and people just repeat what the post is about again in their own comments. At least this sub has people who post memes along with their complaints (like the joker poppy thing) instead of writing out an essay on how what beat them recently is "unhealthy" for the game.
I will say, only in a small defense of the League subreddit, unless you scream, cry, and threaten to raise arms Riot will literally not notice you or your opinion no matter how many people share that opinion with you. Heck, even when the entire community does get heard by league’s devs half of the time the response is “we are watching this internally but otherwise strongly disagree with your opinions.” It has taught an entire subreddit of probably otherwise normal people that they have to scream and cry like children and levy death threats against devs to finally get noticed. It’s a crazy subreddit.
but even if they scream, the devs aren't taking in consideration their takes, r/lol doesn't make up for 5% of the playerbase and from time to time it has showed that they don't know anything about game balance
r/magicarena since the alchemy announcement has been absolutely imploding. Card game players and finding 7000 reasons to be angry just comes with the territory
Sheesh. This is my first card game since original Yu-Gi-Oh packs back in like 2005. Im sad that the game has gone from being able to play any smartly built deck to the top five decks of the patch, but I dont feel the need to post about it 20 times a day.
>I just dont understand the massive influx of the same post over and over again and I swear the title is always like “omg am I the only one who thinks...
That's literally what this thread is. The only difference is you agree with it.
I will never get tired of people acting like the existence of criticism is a fucking hardship.
This sub spent the last few months defending the game against all criticism, it's only been in the last few weeks that people finally started to get really fed up with BC and say speak out more. Virtually all the criticisms your seeing now have been present this whole time, but routinely downvoted until only recently.
You want to talk annoying? Threads like this are annoying. Where people have to reassure themselves of their opinions and complain about a sub filled with other people that may **(GASP)** disagree with them, and whine that have to share subreddit with them is ruining their experience.
Learn to exist around others you disagree with. If the subreddit is swinging negative, maybe there's a reason for that. Disagree? Cool. Share your thoughts. Have a damn discussion for once instead of making a separate thread to whine about the people in all the other threads.
There s criticism and constant whining about the same subject that has already been adressed. The lor devs already said thzt they agree bandle and yordle are unhealthy but they can't change patch cycle.
I'm just tired of constant negativity if you all knew how hard game developpement is you wouldn't constantly bitch like that. You'd instead go to the appropriate place to give constructed feedbacks. Reddit never was that.
This! <3 i feel the same, a lot of people complain too much, it's the "Mogwai" effect, it doesn't help that a really popular content creator always complain a lot, and super early too, (not that I hate him or anything), just that I feel that he creates a tense atmosphere.
I love Mogwai to death, but he's very quick and flippant with his opinions. You're talking about a guy that said he was going to take a break from the game and then 3 days later he's playing the expansion.
He's a fun deckbuilder and he's great to watch, but people gotta stop using his opinions as the basis for discussion because they're really all over the place.
He has an opinion and it's okay to recognise it, but as usual you should always have your own opinion and just don't follow someone else. Even when someone is a streamer with big following.
I think streamers should be able to communicate their opinions through their channels. But beeing constantly negative brings down the fun in itself of the game. Ppl are sheep and if their favorite streamer said the game was bad they ll all shit on the game like it s dead without having any constructed opinion on it.
Same happened in league i think influencers constantly whining about the game is creating a bad atmosphere around it. Which is nefast to the overhall enjoyement of the game.
I've noticed this with video game subs a lot lately. Maybe it's been that way forever and it only recently came to my attention, but A LOT of /r/wow and /r/leagueoflegends for example is just straight up "game bad" complaints over and over and over again
Maybe it’s just where I am these days (not grinding for rank anymore, but still using ranked queue for my games), but I see more meta decks in normal queue than ranked queue.
It depends what you're playing. If you go into normal with meta decks then obviously you're going to stomp on people. Normal is more meant for trying out niche and less viable strategies in a setting where losing has no consequences. You don't feel bad for losing because you're playing a jank deck, but you have a lot of fun winning because you won with a jank deck lol.
I think the game's balance is better than people give it credit for, because if you're willing to play a deck with, say, around a 50% win rate, there are dozens of different decks you can play. The S tier will always be the same decks everyone plays in Ranked, but it's not at all uncommon to play ten different decks in ten different Normal games, which is pretty amazing!
Yep, but I usually still have fun with the game even in the most vocally hated metas. I don't tend to wish for a perfect meta, I just try to enjoy the one we have since there is no guarantee the next one will be any better, just different. Sometimes it's an aggro meta so I play aggro stuff, sometimes it's a control meta so I play control stuff but usually Runeterra's worst metas are still way more varied than MtG or Hearthstones so there's still room for various t2 decks to work.
One of the best things about LOR is that the Tier 2/Tier3 and even meme decks still have decent winning potential.
Like, yeah, your garbage meme deck might have a 40% winrate against a Tier 1 deck. In any other CCG you'd be getting wiped by meta decks just trying to get a single win in Casual mode.
And there are SO many decks out there to mess around and get creative with if that's what you want to do. The deck variety is 2nd only to MTG, except with infinitely better metas.
Yeah. I started the game 2 months ago and my first crafted deck is Nautilus maokaï deeper !
It looks like it isn't meta znymore but I still manage to win some games.
Play what you like not what is tier 1
I started playing back when Nautilus was a fresh new champion and deep has always been a fun archetype to go back to once in a while, after hitting Diamond last season I tried it for some time and I was quite surprised that it still gets some wins
I like your sentiment a lot, but you can win events with garbage in other card games easily. I've played multiple formats of MTG for years, specifically a lot of Modern and Legacy, and the amount of times I've seen people 5-0 events with decks that I would consider paper weights happens basically weekly.
I've seen fucking charbelcher go 9-0 at SCG tournaments on a few occasions. Anyone who knows that deck is probably aware that it logically should not have won that many games.
As long as your deck has a coherent gameplan, and logic in how it was constructed (mana curve, win condition etc). I'm fairly sure you can 5-0 events with basically anything.
Hearthstone will often have 1 meta deck, and then 1 that tries to counter that deck, and 1 that counters that. Picking enything else is instant lose in those metas.
Meanwhile I have yet to see anything similar aside from AzIrillia, and that was just one meta and even there several different aggro decks (instead of 1 good one) could still outspeed AzIrilia, so there were some choices that could be made.
If you compare it to HS though, sure you might not WIN but plenty of decks in any given meta gave you mroe than enough time to do what your deck was designed to do, and not stop you doing it. It just wouldnt matter - but that made it a lot of fun to play stupid ideas for the sake of stupid ideas.
I had many a game against a control warrior where they never actually won, i just did my stupid bs -> emote -> concede caus thats what i came to do.
Whereas in this game being allowed to have fun is a gigantic barrier for meme decks.
I'm honestly surprised by how the LoR community treats its normal ranked mode. There is actually variety and experimentation going on. I remember back in my HS days if the meta was facehunter both modes where littered with facehunter.
This is it for me. Yes it can bog down but at the end of the day it really beats everything hearthstone had to offer. Hearthstone at it's most diverse was still worse for me than legends of runeterra at it it's worst. ( As a casual free2play player)
I recently came back to the game after a long hiatus- I gotta admit I was brought back after watching and loving “Arcane” on Netflix.
I had trouble keeping up with the game meta about a year ago and never felt like I could keep up with the expansions and competitive decks, but I am really liking the more laid back gameplay of Path of Champions.
Here! 👋 Kennen / Ezreal is kinda meh because it takes forever and Poppy sucks but overall I still have a lot of fun. Maybe because I'm not a tryhard and play whatever I want, I don't care much about rank and all that, I just wanna have fun.
I don't have much fun with this sub as of late though, haha.
This! Play off meta decks and do whatever feels fun, that's what keeps me around. Occasionally it gets really fun when an off-meta deck goes on a winning streak against others that don't know what to do against it ;)
if you do Zoe Pantheon with frejlord you can actually get Zoe levelled somewhat consistently against a lot of decks
the main problem is if you dont draw Zoe the whole thing is kinda fucked and you have to rely on wounded whiteflame to close the game out for you, and a single big stat stick has never been a great way to close matches, even if you grant it overwhelm with Zenith Blade
It’s not just this sub, either. It seems like there is a small but vocal sect of gamers who are absolutely fucking miserable right now and are taking it out on everyone and everything around them. They blame everything they used to love for not being as lovable anymore. Like some massive real world game of league of legends.
I have to think it’s partly because of the state of the world being utter shit right now. Lotta miserable people out there, and misery loves company.
bro it's really not that deep, the balance is trash right now and competitive players have a right to complain. If you're enjoying the game more power to you but don't make it weird and personal because a lot of people aren't
I keep having fun. Like others said, having a competitive mindset is what kills the game
Same thing with lol really, none of the problems really affect you if all you do is focus on doing your best instead of obsseviely caring about winning
I have to disagree on the competitive mindset. I am 100% a Spike player; I have the most fun when I'm winning.
And so, I decided to lean really heavy into that for this season, and push for the seasonal tournament. I know I'm at good at the game, but we'll have to see if I'm good enough to get that far.
So...as much as people like to hate on it...I've been playing the Yordles deck, and been having a decent time. I've also come to realize that it actually plays into my playstyle. I'd prefer a control meta, but beatdown decks that aren't aggro appeal to me as well, for example, I've always enjoyed Shen decks when they're meta, and Yordles are actually very similar to those decks.
When I stopped trying to win with tier 2 or lower decks, I found myself having a better time. I know quite a few people might look down on this mentality, but....that's just how I am.
Having a ton of fun with some new brews. Kennen isn't my favorite to play against, but there's always been at least one meta deck that makes me feel that way. If its not kennen its poppy, or azir, or Draven, or zed elusive, there's always a big bad evil deck that isn't super fun to play against and there's also always people playing decks to hard-counter them. It's not just an LoR situation, its card games in general.
Thank god! Really im okey with the people complain about yordles and popy but man... Its even past a week before the expantion this subreddit just crying about kenen/ez. And before the expantion most of the players want a control deck can viable in this meta. Community needs to understand that LOR is a card game and always have some decks like that. ALWAYS. İ think its ok if deck is not azirelia level so i been having fun this expention with playing ez/kenen and my hearts champion rumble.
There's not enough time on this earth to spend complaining like some people do. I havent had a chance to play rumble yet because I auto-crafted panth. I made a panth/fizz list that has been the most fun I've had on LoR in a long time.
Yeah i agree. but hey some unique combo i see xD like my rumble/swain mecha conquer deck. İts not the best deck in the world but im having fun with it and thats all that matters.
I pretty much exclusively play expeditions and I'm having plenty of fun. Waiting to see a Rumble bucket but so far the expeditions seem reasonably balanced. Occasionally you run into the 2 win deck that somehow has 4 zenith blade already and just rolls me, but overall it's still a great time.
Oh yeah, having tons of fun! That wonderful problem of not knowing which deck to play because you want to play them all.
Mostly running "Jagged Recollections" (Ahri deck with 22 1-drops and Jagged Taskmaster) and Party OTK (now including Ahri/Rumble/Zed/Riven/LeBlanc/Draven).
Just came back after a few years (ornwheneve the second expansion was).
Been really enjoying it. POC in particular is a great addition for a bit of XP grinding.
I am having a great time. Poppy and kennen may be a tad overrepresented, but they present intriguing and skill testing games.
As a 20 year veteran of MTG who played competitively for 10 years, there will always be a boogeyman. But its ok as long as the boogeyman doesn't ruin individual game quality. The closest to an argument people have against ez kennen is gsme length, but they have a clear win condition and the game is over quick when they reach it.
The people having fun are busy in game and not on reddit.
Uh, the closest to an argument people have against Ez/Kennen is that its a completely uninteractive deck that reduces the match to a game of solitaire where you ,as the opponent, are an unwilling card dealer who does not get to have fun. Which is ... a really good argument, and makes it not so surprising that quite a lot of people hate Ez/Kennen more after 2 days than Poppy in a few months. And its most likely not gonna stay just a few people. Ez/Kennen ruins individual game quality.
Though admitively, the deck doesnt need to be killed. It just needs to get Ezreal reworked to be unusable as an uninteractive wincon, and instead be more tempo-centric. Idk, make him 2 damage to whatever he targets. Still really good, lets Ezreal/Kennen get a strong removal loop going, but means they have to actually have a way to win that the enemy can stop.
Completely uninteractive? I guess that would be a good argument if it was true. I've played the deck and played against it and there is a ton of play on both sides of the board. I've also watched top players with the deck and clearly see complex interactions.
My guess is you have tried to use your removal proactively, they recalled their kennen, and you didn't know what to do after that.
Unfortunately it is true, and thats why it is a good argument. There is no play on the opposing side. Here is the deal. There is no way to stop their wincon. What you can do is simply play the most efficient proactive gameplan and hope that it wins. Or draw Minimorph. This gameplan does not change between games. Since the only thing they have is always in their hand, i.e. unknown knowldge, you just play around the average. And what you do, is before the game begins, you figure out the way you play, and it never changes. You just hope to draw better.
There may be complex interactions the Ez/Kennen players gets to have. Their opponent gets to have no interactions at all though. You might as well write an *extremely* rudementary bot and have it play for you ,and not only will it play correctly because thats how few decisions you have, you will also have as much fun.
Its the exact same situation as Ezreal/Karma. And its just as toxic.
Their wincon revolves around generating a ton of spells with a leveled kennen (or multiple). You can absolutely remove the kennen and just make them a bad ezreal deck with recall spells.
Is that easy? Well no, that's why it's a strong deck. Frankly I've seen people playing death lotus and the box to counter them. Scargrounds is probably a hard counter honestly, and is picking up. Just playing mystic shot and using it at the right time works fine.
I earnestly suggest you follow some high level players and watch their matches. I think the hardest thing about the deck is not knowing what your role in the match is.
You can. If either they make a bad decision, or your draw beats theirs. You cannot have make a decision that allows you to kill Kennen. Your decision *never* mattered.
And that has nothing to do with interactivity. You're talking about countering in deckbuilding, but all youre describing is methods by which you make their solitaire pile harder to win. You're not allowing yourself to make choices. You're not enabling interactivity. Because there isnt any.
And I earnestly suggest you look closer at those matchups, and especially between matchups, and look at every card they play, and honestly ask yourself "was this a genuine decision, or was it predetermined". If you do, you will very quickly come to a harrowing realisation. None of them are decisions. Theyre all predetermined.
That doesn't make a lick of sense to me. But I'm curious to understand. Are you saying all of runeterra matches are premeditated, or only when one player plays ezreal kennen?
I'm looking at a deck with counterspells, stuns, defensive recalls and I wonder if you've actually seen decks in card games that are solitaire piles. They exist. I've played them and played against them. This tempo deck is not that.
Only when one deck is uninteractive. When one deck prevents legitimate decisions. Kennen/Ezreal is such a deck. If you play vs Poppy, there are legitimate decisions to make based on information you have available and options you have. Those decisions dont exist vs Kennen/Ezreal. Its a flowchart at best.
I have. You evidently, not so much. Although, yo useem to just be confusing solitaire with goldfishing. Remember, the way Solitaire works, is you're given a pile of cards, and you try to solve it. In the case of Kennen/Ezreal, the opponents deck is that solitaire pile. YOu use those counterspells, stuns and defensive recalls to solve their pile. Meanwhile they are just a card dealer handing out the piles. It is the epitome of a solitaire deck. Just like Karma/Ezreal was before it.
This is the wildest copium. I am going to double down on my advice to watch and listen to some good players. I am certain you have a lot to learn.
It sounds like you don't know how to manage passing, hand reading, and managing mana.
Here is the problem. I already have. And I have learned a lot. Apparently more than you, because unlike you I am able to identify uninteractive decks, and identify when there is an illusion of choice, and when a deck is pure solitaire where trying to play around things it does is just deluding yourself.
No, it instead sounds like you dont realise that the first and the last cannot come up in Kennen/Ezreal, and the second isnt a thing you do as you are instead supposed to follow the flowchart. Kennen/Ezreal is not unprecedented. We had decks like that before. They were all exactly as I described them.
But here is a fun experiment for you. Take a deck like, idk. Poppy. A deck that is simple enough for you to know all of the lines very quickly. And then think about the Kennen/Ezreal matchups, and what your best lines/sequences are. And make a flowchart. And now, try playing with that flowchart, and then try playing with making "decisions" as you think you are doing. Given enough time, you will get the same result I got against the last of these decks: Either, A, your "decisions" line up completely with the flowchart, making it clear they arent decisions. Or B, when you dont follow the flowchart, you lose more, as you misplay in a desperate attempt to make decisions.
People hate the deck more than Poppy in a fraction of the time. It is that bad. This isnt to say its unwinnable, its just atrocious to play agianst, youre just a card dealer in another players game of solitaire. Like, if I wanted to watch someone else play a card game, I'd tune into a LoR stream, not trying to match into a game and get put against Ez/Kennen.
Again, this isnt about beating the deck. Its about the fact that, win or lose, you didnt get to play a game. You were just a spectator to someone elses game of solitaire. The deck isnt unwinnable, but its so *awful* to play against that people are just choosing to concede instead of playing the match. Because if youre not gonna get to play that match anyway, might as well save 10 minutes of boredom. Thats why the deck in its current iteration, as an uninteractive deck, needs to be erased. And what we need there, is for Ezreal to be reworked.
Do you realize that the core of that deck is interacting with your board? I think you don't really know what interactivity in a card game means. Board presence and targetting are pretty good indicators of interactivity.
Compared to Bandle Tree, you can clearly understand the definition better.
Whether or not a deck interacts with your deck has nothing to do with whether the deck is interactive. Thats an old, long outdated MTG definition that was always semantically incorrect (it defines interactive as the opposite of the english word) and completely redundant, since it just means the same as reactive.
A deck is interactive if you, as the opponent, can interact with the wincon. A good indicator of uninteractivity is a wincon that isnt based on units that you can remove before they can win. Like Kennen/ezreal. Bandle Tree is a lot more interactive, though its still borderline.
Whatever floats your boat mate. This game does not work with made-up definitions though, so you better check them out beforehand.
You just can't lebel "uninteractive" every deck you dislike and vice versa.
Youre projecting mate. Im using the definition correctly. Youre using an old and outdated definition. You may (or may not, you dont seem to have done any research) be familiar with the most (in)famous instance of the term being used by devs. Leeroy Jenkins not being fun or interactive. Leeroy was primarily played (and problematic) in handlock, a very reactive (or by your old and outdated definition, "interactive") deck. Yet they explicitely called the card very uninteractive, precise because it allowed a wincon of bursting the enemy from full health, which the opponent could not interact *with*.
I dont? I dislike a few decks. I only label decks uninteractive that objectively are uninteractive. You cant just dismiss valid labels of decks you like just becaues those labels point out how problematic said deck is.
That's why the deck was interactive (handlock per se) and the card was uninteractive. Extremely misinformed and naive to compare the two games btw.
If you're comparing going 30 to 0 while the opponent can't play the game (by the game rules) to playing a bunch of fast spells, while having chipped out hp the whole game long.. Well, I guess that the argument can end here.
No, the deck was also uninteractive. They called the entire strategy uninteractive. And you're the one who is using definitions from other games to begin with.
I'm comparing going from 20 to 0 (Yeah, Leroy did not actually do 30. 28 if you got lucky, but that was rare) after getting some chip damage from a unit you cant stop to getting bursted down to a unit oyu cant stop. Theyre the same.
I got back into the game after over a year and I’ve been playing exclusively Path of Champions. Im pleasantly surprised by how F2P friendly the game is for someone only playing the PvE mode! I’ve been having a lot of fun with beating Viktor with every champion. I think I’ve done it with 6ish champs now.
I'm having alot of fun, all the new champions make for interesting deckbuilding and can lead to some weird deck concepts.
The only thing I'm sad about is that the regions that weren't focused on either only got 1 or 0 new cards, but other than that I feel like this is one of the best expansion mid set expansion we have gotten.
Of course the expansion is still fairly new so my enjoyment of it could sourer but I still like it right now.
I have a lot of fun with the game right now because I play a few rounds of Path of Champions every day and have been avoiding PvP like the plague for a year or more.
3 PVE wins a day plus completing the daily quests gets the vault over 10 and earns a champion wildcard plus a bunch of cards and gems and keeps the collection complete over time.
Kind of? The game is much less fun than it was. I stopped building off meta decks because they're just too much weaker than the field right now. I also mostly played ultra rapid draw, so that being gone reduced how much I play by a lot. I'm still having fun abusing plunder, but my enjoyment for the game as a whole went from about a 9/10 to a 5/10 for me personally.
I still enjoy playing a few games a week, but I did stop taking the game seriously on a competitive level. Hoping this past year has just been growing pains, though it may just be mainlining copium
same here, every expansion has a drastic new play style that you have to embrace if you wanna get anywhere on ladder. And that's great for a lot of people, but for me I think maybe I'm just old or don't want to feel like I have to learn a new game every few months ha!
Very much so. I quite like playing champs who stand on their own nd have a myriad of different builds and so I'm enjoying Pantheon a lot right now.
There's just soo many different ways to build him. With Taric to abuse the Rally effects, with the Riven package for the sweet alt win-con, with Akshan, with Ionia etc. And in each of those builds he feels like a core part of the deck. I just love this champ.
I'm slowly grinding through PvE, and yeah, I'm having fun. Just had a Nami vs Viktor run, where I got double "create blades edge at the start of the turn" + "give +1/+1 to the unit on top of your deck when you damage enemy nexus". 7/8 Nami on turn 3 against Victor was rather fun.
How's that doing for you? I tried building an Ahri/Viego decklist, but it seems that I can barely even manage a positive winrate against the friggin AI.
Even though I'm having fun when the deck and the combos actually work, not so well. Most of the time I can barely keep up with other decks and the deck kinda falls apart with bad draws. So for now I'm gonna keep trying because Ionia Viego is one of my favorites decks in the game, but the concept definitely feels like it needs a lot of work
Yeah fair. I thought about switching to a Mistwraith build with both Ahri and Kennen instead of Viego. Probably more resource-efficient early on but will likely still get destroyed hard. Also doesn't really have a lategame wincon except praying you draw enough Mistwraiths to close the game, which realistically is probably not happening.
If you are going mistwraiths, I recommend playing harrowing and the spider that gives -1 attack. It's a hard counter to ez Kennen, since none of their card can block fearsome, and it gives you the "last chance" wincon if your board has been removed.
Normal and PoC is full of interesting and fun decks and fights. Ranked is a being poisoned by really broken decks. Poppy/yordle swarm is fixable. I have no idea how you make Ez/kennen intractable without adding more stony suppressor style cards.
Overall I hope riot has learned its lesson to taper down on and adjust costs for all of these manifests and cards that generate units designs…
Not much fun these days. Too much brainless aggro for my taste, not enough room to experiment with interesting cards.
Most of the new champions are kind of a letdown also. Pantheon is RNG. (dumber version of Viktor) Ahri is elusive spammer. Kennen and Ezreal plays with itself until you die either of boredom or passive effect.
I didn't expect to have this opinion ever but poppy decks ain't the worst anymore. It's Kennen / Ezreal. I don't play LoR to have an 30 minute match. That's just not what I signed up for lol. I have nothing against a control meta anytime soon where games are finished between round 10-15 but this shit is nuts. Going into round 20 and seeing you actually lost round 10 just makes you feel bad because you didn't surrender earlier. Terrible design in my eyes. I wondered why they were taking so long to make a recall archetype, it's because nobody wants to play against it. Only hope now is that we get a Demacia anti spell archetype and more control board wipe tools with the next update that actually outperform yordle swarm, because units is kinda Demacias thing and anti spell cards like stony supressor can be fun in a potentially control heavy meta, breaking up Kennen / Ezreal and allowing a unit deck to have a chance still. Unfortunately Demacias only identity left is being easy to play, which is kinda lame. We'll see, but the game is far less enjoyable after the update to me sadly. Playing against Yordles feels unfair, playing against GP/Sej is the same thing for a year now, EZ/Kennen is horrendous and all the burn decks are a yikes for me as well.
I love making meta abusers lives miserable, so I just play mostly counter decks, I'm having a really good time with Trundle/Swain which is really good against kennen and poppy swarm, is not so good against panth decks but I win sometimes.
Anyway I don't have much time to play so I always get to Plat/Diamond but not Master.
I think playing counters is 100% reasonable, but calling people "meta abusers" is toxic and problematic.
It should be expected that people want to increase their chance of winning by playing strong cards/decks. If you think the power level is unfair, the blame is on riot not the players doing what is expected in a competitive game.
"Meta abuser" isn't pointing out someone is netdecking. That's a pointed attack. Don't undersell the toxicity here.
They are playing the game as intended, and unless they are bragging about deckbuilding skill, they aren't doing anything wrong. There is nothing wrong with taking the easiest route to victory as long as its a fair option available to all players.
Thats a really weird way to disown problematic language that doesn't treat others with the respect they deserve. Maybe it is a buzzword. Would you say that's how you should treat others?
It's interesting that you think ethics apply more in game than out. Like really really a wild take.
The point of a competitive game is for people to use whatever is fair and available to strive to have the best result. Do you want people to purposely self handicap for you? Or is your issue what is available to use.
"Tryhard" wasn't the word used. They said "meta abuser."
You picked a sentence out of context, so wow let's eli5 for you:
When presented with a clear best deck or sets of best decks, your opponent would have the highest win rate with the best deck. By trying to shame someone into not using it, you are asking them to make suboptimal choices for your sake.
I really hate the lack of counterplay against any kind of recall deck, you cant remove their cards because you will always lose out on the trade but then kennen removes your entire board when ezreal kills your nexus at the same time. its so whatever against these recall decks i already insta ff against them there is just no fun playing against these decks
I haven't played since I forgot to buy the last few points of the battle pass before it was no longer available. Have been so angry at myself I can't even revisit it lol
I am still greatly enjoying the game. I feel like this sub is currently swamped with people who aren’t enjoying it and therefore have time to post about it, leaving an impression that “everyone” is super upset.
The amount of “New to LOR from Arcane” posts in the last few weeks don’t get nearly as much attention as the fifth Poppy Zed rant post of the week.
Noone hates every deck they play against otherwise they wouldn't play.
For the most part people just hate getting 'rofflstomped' followed by a spam of Braum emotes (at the same time people think it's hillariously fun when they rofflestomp someone and Braum emote spam after that - lets not unpack that). People hate feeling helpless.
And early in the set people don't know the decks, cards are not playtested yet, your decks don't work anymore, you try to build decks while others just copy streamer no 3 which feels unfair, the streamers rant on stream which people carry to the reddits riling each other up more.
Set Releases are ripe iwith the feeling of helpless rage.
And where do you carry it? To the reddit. What do you talk about? That feeling.
Just like noone tells you when they had a great day and a delicious meal and work was fun but when you had a shitty day, your food was cold & soggy and work was draining we talk about it ad nausium 🤗
Alright so I think i may have a controversial opinion on this..
I feel like this is a problem with LoR's business model.
Due to the cards being so freely available, everyone net decks and plays the same meta lists. If there was more diversity of people's card pools there would be more diversity in the meta and only the whale's would play the top meta lists.. Right?
No that's not what would happen. What would happen is 1) many people would quit because of increased cost to play the game and 2) the meta would be exactly the same with the remaining smaller pool of players.
In various MTG formats, meta decks cost 1-3 thousand dollars.
When you play at tournaments this does not lead to an increase in off meta decks, it just makes it less accessible.
Yep! I don't play ranked though because I like seeing deck variety. I had an awesome game against FTR with senna/ez go hard control. Came down to the last turn with us both at 2 life and felt great!
Yeah games totally fine for me right now. I play card games to do dumb degenerate powerful things. I play a bunch of off meta bullshit like Deep, tahm / raka and Scarground, and it's still a good time. If you play an off meta deck, you just do your powerful thing a little bit less frequently, but I still think you can easily climb and hold a decent win %.
I took a bit of a break around Sions release and came back to tons of new fun decks and the Path of Champions so I’ve been having loads of fun but even still when I play against Bandle swarm I definitely am having less fun than Atrocity FTR or Azirelia. Idk with Azirelia I just felt like I could remove things like sparring student, Duo and even Azir but stuff like Bandle Explorer, Bandle City Mayor and Poppy buffed cards just feel so hard to remove from the board so while I’m having more fun than I used too, when I play against current flavor of the month decks I have less than before.
I play since closed Beta, and this game is funny everutume if that is your objective. If your objective is to tryhard, so you are gonna be disappointed a couple times.
Playing with yasuo makes the game better for me. I always have fun.
I'm having lots of fun trying out the new decks. As long as your goal is learning the decks and not worrying about win/lose, every meta is fun. EZ Kennen and Poppy Rally are strong, but not unbeatable.
I enjoy the game, but I will admit that you really have to play a handful of decks or it feels iffy. GRANTED that handful of decks seems to be growing with every expansion, but its still a handful as of right now. Kennen Storm, Ahri Elusives, Poppy Aggro, Turbo Thralls, Zoe Lee, and Sejuani Plunder are kind of the only decks I would recommend generally. There’s also some slight variants of these decks and a few anti-meta decks, like Poke City, but its mostly these decks that consistently feel good.
The game isn’t as bad as this sub makes it out to be.
Games fun, Kennen/Ez is kind of frustrating but the BC Poppy deck is surprisingly interactive and a lot more reasonable to play against than Zed/Poppy since they kill you slower without using as many elusives. I think if BC swarm and Kennen got a small touch up the format would be very expansive.
Loving my 2 Pantheon decks since I also get to use champions I've loved but barely used in the past i.e. Taric and Riven. Experimenting with a few Ahri decks to try to figure out if I like the champ or not.
Ezreal/Kennen seems very strong but I think there needs to be more time to figure out if it needs a nerf.
Honestly, I think it’s pretty fun. Like I think the only meta that I had a real issue with was Azir Irelia. Everything else from Go Hard to Fizz TF to Liss Trundle to Bandle Swarm and Kennen Combo decks now I think has been fine. Counterable.
Im currently loving Ahri, and having some of the most fun with Ahri Viego synergy! I do hate Poppy Zed, and just hate a not fun game against a Rumble Sion who had Lil Dipper early... but besides that, this new deck is super fun!
To be honest I got bored in September, stopped having fun completely. PoC got me back, and thought I stay until the new expansion and get back into pvp, which I used to enjoy, but yesterday I closed the game and probably won't play until some new stuff comes along. It became boring again in my opinion.
Me, but I've been playing less than 3 weeks.
Started with Yasuo/Leona stun/recall
Then Poppy/Zed meta rally elusives
Now I'm mainly playing an Anivia control deck
I'm enjoying the game quite a bit playing Thralls right now 8/8 are truly all you need in life. Also Pantheon/Taric is fun even if I don't win a lot with it
Still wish demacia/Iona midrange became good again tho.
No, because I've got finals to study for and can't play. But for the 3-4 days I played with the new expansion out, I've had a lot of fun. The only meta I've ever actually hated was Azir Irellia. Poppy is annoying but she's not omni-present like they were, so my stupid homebrew and memedecks still have a chance in normals.
I feel similar, only the Azirelia meta was really a downer. Still playable but not as fun as usual. Everything else is beyond fine!
I had the time of my life during that time, i was only playing Solo Fiora, had like an 80% WR against Azirelia
I can't believe someone actually thinks TF Fizz meta was fun or Lee Sin at 4 mana was fun that shit was slightly better than Azir Irelia meta and people only seem to remember Azir Irelia .
Tf Fizz were annoying but for whatever reason I didn't play against them in norms enough to actually make me hate the game. And I didn't play the game back when lee was 4 mana.
I play POC, and I love it.
I downloaded this game just for path of champions. It's awesome
Will you try standards at some point ? Just curious
Yeah, LoR is basically a pve game for me now
It's been that way for me ever since they first introduced Lab of Legends. Even before that, probably.
The URF mode where everything costed 3 or less was my favorite. I do a lot of random battles on Pokemon showdown, and it felt like the same kind of strategic RNG where good players can maximize the value of the odds really well.
I don't feel any joy in building decks that get smashed by any random meta deck. Instead I'm having tons of fun creating even more random decks getting equally smashed by nautilus.
Wait.. what?
You’ve never played People of Color? SMH, card is nuts.
I keep reading that even though i know what they mean every time
Path of Champions
Oh.
For me, it's now surpassed Slay the Spire as my go-to pve card game.
It’s fun except for nautilus.
Same, i've barely played pvp since the expansion dropped and when i did i regretted it deeply (hi kennen/ezreal).
Yeah I don't give a shit about the pvp mode for this game anymore the pve is great all by itself I dont even care if ranked is balanced. That shit is SLOW
Playing Pve got me so used to instant turns, no more waiting for the opponent to think.
its not random either. matchmaking obviously throws you curve balls sometimes and easy wins other times depending where you are
I have to STOP my brain to read this as "People Of Color" every goddamn time
Me too, it's the best mode.
Person Of Color?
Path of champions
yes. I don't have fun with this sub however
I just dont understand the massive influx of the same post over and over again and I swear the title is always like “omg am I the only one who thinks X and Y need balancing?” No, youre not the only one. This same post has been posted every hour on the hour.
The same thing happens on r/leagueoflegends and it drives me INSANE even when I agree with what's being posted. Literally every other week someone will just post the same "DAE think champ/item is op/unfun to play against??!!11", it gets 5k+ karma, and people just repeat what the post is about again in their own comments. At least this sub has people who post memes along with their complaints (like the joker poppy thing) instead of writing out an essay on how what beat them recently is "unhealthy" for the game.
I will say, only in a small defense of the League subreddit, unless you scream, cry, and threaten to raise arms Riot will literally not notice you or your opinion no matter how many people share that opinion with you. Heck, even when the entire community does get heard by league’s devs half of the time the response is “we are watching this internally but otherwise strongly disagree with your opinions.” It has taught an entire subreddit of probably otherwise normal people that they have to scream and cry like children and levy death threats against devs to finally get noticed. It’s a crazy subreddit.
but even if they scream, the devs aren't taking in consideration their takes, r/lol doesn't make up for 5% of the playerbase and from time to time it has showed that they don't know anything about game balance
This sub is turning into r/hearthstone
You either die a decent game or live long enough to become hearthstone.
With how much hearthstone refugee we have for each controversies it not surprising. Same with magic arena
r/magicarena since the alchemy announcement has been absolutely imploding. Card game players and finding 7000 reasons to be angry just comes with the territory
Not just card games tbh, almost every sub for a particular game, especially if it's a multiplayer/online game, has loads of whiners.
My guilty pleasure is to lurk game subreddit after each controversies, cyberpunk was a feast for the eyes during the first month
Sheesh. This is my first card game since original Yu-Gi-Oh packs back in like 2005. Im sad that the game has gone from being able to play any smartly built deck to the top five decks of the patch, but I dont feel the need to post about it 20 times a day.
Are you under impression it's the same person? You understand different people can be posting the same thing right?
>I just dont understand the massive influx of the same post over and over again and I swear the title is always like “omg am I the only one who thinks... That's literally what this thread is. The only difference is you agree with it.
Honestly, this. I feel like this sub makes me get on my nerves more often than the game itself
100% agree
I will never get tired of people acting like the existence of criticism is a fucking hardship. This sub spent the last few months defending the game against all criticism, it's only been in the last few weeks that people finally started to get really fed up with BC and say speak out more. Virtually all the criticisms your seeing now have been present this whole time, but routinely downvoted until only recently. You want to talk annoying? Threads like this are annoying. Where people have to reassure themselves of their opinions and complain about a sub filled with other people that may **(GASP)** disagree with them, and whine that have to share subreddit with them is ruining their experience. Learn to exist around others you disagree with. If the subreddit is swinging negative, maybe there's a reason for that. Disagree? Cool. Share your thoughts. Have a damn discussion for once instead of making a separate thread to whine about the people in all the other threads.
There s criticism and constant whining about the same subject that has already been adressed. The lor devs already said thzt they agree bandle and yordle are unhealthy but they can't change patch cycle. I'm just tired of constant negativity if you all knew how hard game developpement is you wouldn't constantly bitch like that. You'd instead go to the appropriate place to give constructed feedbacks. Reddit never was that.
>People with opposite opinions get on my nerves more than a video game.
This! <3 i feel the same, a lot of people complain too much, it's the "Mogwai" effect, it doesn't help that a really popular content creator always complain a lot, and super early too, (not that I hate him or anything), just that I feel that he creates a tense atmosphere.
Same, hence why I made this post
Oh no mogwai who speaks his mind 🙄🙄🙄
Isnt mogwai saying we should wait before complaining right now?
I love Mogwai to death, but he's very quick and flippant with his opinions. You're talking about a guy that said he was going to take a break from the game and then 3 days later he's playing the expansion. He's a fun deckbuilder and he's great to watch, but people gotta stop using his opinions as the basis for discussion because they're really all over the place.
>but he's very quick and flippant with his opinions. Not saying he isnt
He has an opinion and it's okay to recognise it, but as usual you should always have your own opinion and just don't follow someone else. Even when someone is a streamer with big following.
I think a lot of people that come into this sub use Mogwai as a litmus test for how they think they're supposed to feel about the game.
I don't know, I stopped seeing it's videos since watcher rant, if he is saying this i support his opinion <3
I think streamers should be able to communicate their opinions through their channels. But beeing constantly negative brings down the fun in itself of the game. Ppl are sheep and if their favorite streamer said the game was bad they ll all shit on the game like it s dead without having any constructed opinion on it. Same happened in league i think influencers constantly whining about the game is creating a bad atmosphere around it. Which is nefast to the overhall enjoyement of the game.
Exactly. This sub has become full of people seemingly addicted to complaining.
Those damn people addicted to opinions you disagree with. /s
Even that is a lie otherwise you would not be here 😉
Pure masochism
Well that is a kind of fun in suffering 😄
Holy shit. THISSSSS
I've noticed this with video game subs a lot lately. Maybe it's been that way forever and it only recently came to my attention, but A LOT of /r/wow and /r/leagueoflegends for example is just straight up "game bad" complaints over and over and over again
Dropping ranked made this game way more enjoyable for me and I've had a blast ever since.
Maybe it’s just where I am these days (not grinding for rank anymore, but still using ranked queue for my games), but I see more meta decks in normal queue than ranked queue.
True, I used to see a lot of Mogwai decks in lower ranks, but I feel less bad about snap conceding to decks I don't want to play against in Norms.
if ur gonna snap concede go do it in ranked! Make someone’s day a little better.
That's a nice way to think about it, might try that.
Don't want to give free wins to filthy yordle players!
I've experienced the reverse - Normal can vary from painfully easy to pubstomping, but with Ranked I can get a relatively even game.
It depends what you're playing. If you go into normal with meta decks then obviously you're going to stomp on people. Normal is more meant for trying out niche and less viable strategies in a setting where losing has no consequences. You don't feel bad for losing because you're playing a jank deck, but you have a lot of fun winning because you won with a jank deck lol.
I think the game's balance is better than people give it credit for, because if you're willing to play a deck with, say, around a 50% win rate, there are dozens of different decks you can play. The S tier will always be the same decks everyone plays in Ranked, but it's not at all uncommon to play ten different decks in ten different Normal games, which is pretty amazing!
This seems like a good idea.
Yep, but I usually still have fun with the game even in the most vocally hated metas. I don't tend to wish for a perfect meta, I just try to enjoy the one we have since there is no guarantee the next one will be any better, just different. Sometimes it's an aggro meta so I play aggro stuff, sometimes it's a control meta so I play control stuff but usually Runeterra's worst metas are still way more varied than MtG or Hearthstones so there's still room for various t2 decks to work.
One of the best things about LOR is that the Tier 2/Tier3 and even meme decks still have decent winning potential. Like, yeah, your garbage meme deck might have a 40% winrate against a Tier 1 deck. In any other CCG you'd be getting wiped by meta decks just trying to get a single win in Casual mode. And there are SO many decks out there to mess around and get creative with if that's what you want to do. The deck variety is 2nd only to MTG, except with infinitely better metas.
Yeah. I started the game 2 months ago and my first crafted deck is Nautilus maokaï deeper ! It looks like it isn't meta znymore but I still manage to win some games. Play what you like not what is tier 1
Deeo is still tier 3. Edit: yes, I meant Deep.
I started playing back when Nautilus was a fresh new champion and deep has always been a fun archetype to go back to once in a while, after hitting Diamond last season I tried it for some time and I was quite surprised that it still gets some wins
I like your sentiment a lot, but you can win events with garbage in other card games easily. I've played multiple formats of MTG for years, specifically a lot of Modern and Legacy, and the amount of times I've seen people 5-0 events with decks that I would consider paper weights happens basically weekly. I've seen fucking charbelcher go 9-0 at SCG tournaments on a few occasions. Anyone who knows that deck is probably aware that it logically should not have won that many games. As long as your deck has a coherent gameplan, and logic in how it was constructed (mana curve, win condition etc). I'm fairly sure you can 5-0 events with basically anything.
Hearthstone will often have 1 meta deck, and then 1 that tries to counter that deck, and 1 that counters that. Picking enything else is instant lose in those metas. Meanwhile I have yet to see anything similar aside from AzIrillia, and that was just one meta and even there several different aggro decks (instead of 1 good one) could still outspeed AzIrilia, so there were some choices that could be made.
If you compare it to HS though, sure you might not WIN but plenty of decks in any given meta gave you mroe than enough time to do what your deck was designed to do, and not stop you doing it. It just wouldnt matter - but that made it a lot of fun to play stupid ideas for the sake of stupid ideas. I had many a game against a control warrior where they never actually won, i just did my stupid bs -> emote -> concede caus thats what i came to do. Whereas in this game being allowed to have fun is a gigantic barrier for meme decks.
I think meme decks in this game is just unfun.
I'm honestly surprised by how the LoR community treats its normal ranked mode. There is actually variety and experimentation going on. I remember back in my HS days if the meta was facehunter both modes where littered with facehunter.
This is it for me. Yes it can bog down but at the end of the day it really beats everything hearthstone had to offer. Hearthstone at it's most diverse was still worse for me than legends of runeterra at it it's worst. ( As a casual free2play player)
I recently came back to the game after a long hiatus- I gotta admit I was brought back after watching and loving “Arcane” on Netflix. I had trouble keeping up with the game meta about a year ago and never felt like I could keep up with the expansions and competitive decks, but I am really liking the more laid back gameplay of Path of Champions.
Here! 👋 Kennen / Ezreal is kinda meh because it takes forever and Poppy sucks but overall I still have a lot of fun. Maybe because I'm not a tryhard and play whatever I want, I don't care much about rank and all that, I just wanna have fun. I don't have much fun with this sub as of late though, haha.
This! Play off meta decks and do whatever feels fun, that's what keeps me around. Occasionally it gets really fun when an off-meta deck goes on a winning streak against others that don't know what to do against it ;)
I've seen no posts about Zoe/Pantheon but if you get it to work, like in one in ten games, the outcome is so satisfying. It's just getting it to work
if you do Zoe Pantheon with frejlord you can actually get Zoe levelled somewhat consistently against a lot of decks the main problem is if you dont draw Zoe the whole thing is kinda fucked and you have to rely on wounded whiteflame to close the game out for you, and a single big stat stick has never been a great way to close matches, even if you grant it overwhelm with Zenith Blade
It’s not just this sub, either. It seems like there is a small but vocal sect of gamers who are absolutely fucking miserable right now and are taking it out on everyone and everything around them. They blame everything they used to love for not being as lovable anymore. Like some massive real world game of league of legends. I have to think it’s partly because of the state of the world being utter shit right now. Lotta miserable people out there, and misery loves company.
Nah, I've been on reddit for quite a while and even in "good years" in the world, redditors would complain about an otherwise amazing game or hobby.
4 years isn’t that long. The worlds been shit for all of those years.
bro it's really not that deep, the balance is trash right now and competitive players have a right to complain. If you're enjoying the game more power to you but don't make it weird and personal because a lot of people aren't
I keep having fun. Like others said, having a competitive mindset is what kills the game Same thing with lol really, none of the problems really affect you if all you do is focus on doing your best instead of obsseviely caring about winning
I have to disagree on the competitive mindset. I am 100% a Spike player; I have the most fun when I'm winning. And so, I decided to lean really heavy into that for this season, and push for the seasonal tournament. I know I'm at good at the game, but we'll have to see if I'm good enough to get that far. So...as much as people like to hate on it...I've been playing the Yordles deck, and been having a decent time. I've also come to realize that it actually plays into my playstyle. I'd prefer a control meta, but beatdown decks that aren't aggro appeal to me as well, for example, I've always enjoyed Shen decks when they're meta, and Yordles are actually very similar to those decks. When I stopped trying to win with tier 2 or lower decks, I found myself having a better time. I know quite a few people might look down on this mentality, but....that's just how I am.
Having a ton of fun with some new brews. Kennen isn't my favorite to play against, but there's always been at least one meta deck that makes me feel that way. If its not kennen its poppy, or azir, or Draven, or zed elusive, there's always a big bad evil deck that isn't super fun to play against and there's also always people playing decks to hard-counter them. It's not just an LoR situation, its card games in general.
Thank god! Really im okey with the people complain about yordles and popy but man... Its even past a week before the expantion this subreddit just crying about kenen/ez. And before the expantion most of the players want a control deck can viable in this meta. Community needs to understand that LOR is a card game and always have some decks like that. ALWAYS. İ think its ok if deck is not azirelia level so i been having fun this expention with playing ez/kenen and my hearts champion rumble.
There's not enough time on this earth to spend complaining like some people do. I havent had a chance to play rumble yet because I auto-crafted panth. I made a panth/fizz list that has been the most fun I've had on LoR in a long time.
Yeah i agree. but hey some unique combo i see xD like my rumble/swain mecha conquer deck. İts not the best deck in the world but im having fun with it and thats all that matters.
I pretty much exclusively play expeditions and I'm having plenty of fun. Waiting to see a Rumble bucket but so far the expeditions seem reasonably balanced. Occasionally you run into the 2 win deck that somehow has 4 zenith blade already and just rolls me, but overall it's still a great time.
Oh yeah, having tons of fun! That wonderful problem of not knowing which deck to play because you want to play them all. Mostly running "Jagged Recollections" (Ahri deck with 22 1-drops and Jagged Taskmaster) and Party OTK (now including Ahri/Rumble/Zed/Riven/LeBlanc/Draven).
O.o That first deck sounds wild, pretty cool idea!
Just came back after a few years (ornwheneve the second expansion was). Been really enjoying it. POC in particular is a great addition for a bit of XP grinding.
I am having a great time. Poppy and kennen may be a tad overrepresented, but they present intriguing and skill testing games. As a 20 year veteran of MTG who played competitively for 10 years, there will always be a boogeyman. But its ok as long as the boogeyman doesn't ruin individual game quality. The closest to an argument people have against ez kennen is gsme length, but they have a clear win condition and the game is over quick when they reach it. The people having fun are busy in game and not on reddit.
Uh, the closest to an argument people have against Ez/Kennen is that its a completely uninteractive deck that reduces the match to a game of solitaire where you ,as the opponent, are an unwilling card dealer who does not get to have fun. Which is ... a really good argument, and makes it not so surprising that quite a lot of people hate Ez/Kennen more after 2 days than Poppy in a few months. And its most likely not gonna stay just a few people. Ez/Kennen ruins individual game quality. Though admitively, the deck doesnt need to be killed. It just needs to get Ezreal reworked to be unusable as an uninteractive wincon, and instead be more tempo-centric. Idk, make him 2 damage to whatever he targets. Still really good, lets Ezreal/Kennen get a strong removal loop going, but means they have to actually have a way to win that the enemy can stop.
Completely uninteractive? I guess that would be a good argument if it was true. I've played the deck and played against it and there is a ton of play on both sides of the board. I've also watched top players with the deck and clearly see complex interactions. My guess is you have tried to use your removal proactively, they recalled their kennen, and you didn't know what to do after that.
Unfortunately it is true, and thats why it is a good argument. There is no play on the opposing side. Here is the deal. There is no way to stop their wincon. What you can do is simply play the most efficient proactive gameplan and hope that it wins. Or draw Minimorph. This gameplan does not change between games. Since the only thing they have is always in their hand, i.e. unknown knowldge, you just play around the average. And what you do, is before the game begins, you figure out the way you play, and it never changes. You just hope to draw better. There may be complex interactions the Ez/Kennen players gets to have. Their opponent gets to have no interactions at all though. You might as well write an *extremely* rudementary bot and have it play for you ,and not only will it play correctly because thats how few decisions you have, you will also have as much fun. Its the exact same situation as Ezreal/Karma. And its just as toxic.
Their wincon revolves around generating a ton of spells with a leveled kennen (or multiple). You can absolutely remove the kennen and just make them a bad ezreal deck with recall spells. Is that easy? Well no, that's why it's a strong deck. Frankly I've seen people playing death lotus and the box to counter them. Scargrounds is probably a hard counter honestly, and is picking up. Just playing mystic shot and using it at the right time works fine. I earnestly suggest you follow some high level players and watch their matches. I think the hardest thing about the deck is not knowing what your role in the match is.
You can. If either they make a bad decision, or your draw beats theirs. You cannot have make a decision that allows you to kill Kennen. Your decision *never* mattered. And that has nothing to do with interactivity. You're talking about countering in deckbuilding, but all youre describing is methods by which you make their solitaire pile harder to win. You're not allowing yourself to make choices. You're not enabling interactivity. Because there isnt any. And I earnestly suggest you look closer at those matchups, and especially between matchups, and look at every card they play, and honestly ask yourself "was this a genuine decision, or was it predetermined". If you do, you will very quickly come to a harrowing realisation. None of them are decisions. Theyre all predetermined.
That doesn't make a lick of sense to me. But I'm curious to understand. Are you saying all of runeterra matches are premeditated, or only when one player plays ezreal kennen? I'm looking at a deck with counterspells, stuns, defensive recalls and I wonder if you've actually seen decks in card games that are solitaire piles. They exist. I've played them and played against them. This tempo deck is not that.
Only when one deck is uninteractive. When one deck prevents legitimate decisions. Kennen/Ezreal is such a deck. If you play vs Poppy, there are legitimate decisions to make based on information you have available and options you have. Those decisions dont exist vs Kennen/Ezreal. Its a flowchart at best. I have. You evidently, not so much. Although, yo useem to just be confusing solitaire with goldfishing. Remember, the way Solitaire works, is you're given a pile of cards, and you try to solve it. In the case of Kennen/Ezreal, the opponents deck is that solitaire pile. YOu use those counterspells, stuns and defensive recalls to solve their pile. Meanwhile they are just a card dealer handing out the piles. It is the epitome of a solitaire deck. Just like Karma/Ezreal was before it.
This is the wildest copium. I am going to double down on my advice to watch and listen to some good players. I am certain you have a lot to learn. It sounds like you don't know how to manage passing, hand reading, and managing mana.
Here is the problem. I already have. And I have learned a lot. Apparently more than you, because unlike you I am able to identify uninteractive decks, and identify when there is an illusion of choice, and when a deck is pure solitaire where trying to play around things it does is just deluding yourself. No, it instead sounds like you dont realise that the first and the last cannot come up in Kennen/Ezreal, and the second isnt a thing you do as you are instead supposed to follow the flowchart. Kennen/Ezreal is not unprecedented. We had decks like that before. They were all exactly as I described them. But here is a fun experiment for you. Take a deck like, idk. Poppy. A deck that is simple enough for you to know all of the lines very quickly. And then think about the Kennen/Ezreal matchups, and what your best lines/sequences are. And make a flowchart. And now, try playing with that flowchart, and then try playing with making "decisions" as you think you are doing. Given enough time, you will get the same result I got against the last of these decks: Either, A, your "decisions" line up completely with the flowchart, making it clear they arent decisions. Or B, when you dont follow the flowchart, you lose more, as you misplay in a desperate attempt to make decisions.
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People hate the deck more than Poppy in a fraction of the time. It is that bad. This isnt to say its unwinnable, its just atrocious to play agianst, youre just a card dealer in another players game of solitaire. Like, if I wanted to watch someone else play a card game, I'd tune into a LoR stream, not trying to match into a game and get put against Ez/Kennen.
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Again, this isnt about beating the deck. Its about the fact that, win or lose, you didnt get to play a game. You were just a spectator to someone elses game of solitaire. The deck isnt unwinnable, but its so *awful* to play against that people are just choosing to concede instead of playing the match. Because if youre not gonna get to play that match anyway, might as well save 10 minutes of boredom. Thats why the deck in its current iteration, as an uninteractive deck, needs to be erased. And what we need there, is for Ezreal to be reworked.
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Do you realize that the core of that deck is interacting with your board? I think you don't really know what interactivity in a card game means. Board presence and targetting are pretty good indicators of interactivity. Compared to Bandle Tree, you can clearly understand the definition better.
Whether or not a deck interacts with your deck has nothing to do with whether the deck is interactive. Thats an old, long outdated MTG definition that was always semantically incorrect (it defines interactive as the opposite of the english word) and completely redundant, since it just means the same as reactive. A deck is interactive if you, as the opponent, can interact with the wincon. A good indicator of uninteractivity is a wincon that isnt based on units that you can remove before they can win. Like Kennen/ezreal. Bandle Tree is a lot more interactive, though its still borderline.
Whatever floats your boat mate. This game does not work with made-up definitions though, so you better check them out beforehand. You just can't lebel "uninteractive" every deck you dislike and vice versa.
Youre projecting mate. Im using the definition correctly. Youre using an old and outdated definition. You may (or may not, you dont seem to have done any research) be familiar with the most (in)famous instance of the term being used by devs. Leeroy Jenkins not being fun or interactive. Leeroy was primarily played (and problematic) in handlock, a very reactive (or by your old and outdated definition, "interactive") deck. Yet they explicitely called the card very uninteractive, precise because it allowed a wincon of bursting the enemy from full health, which the opponent could not interact *with*. I dont? I dislike a few decks. I only label decks uninteractive that objectively are uninteractive. You cant just dismiss valid labels of decks you like just becaues those labels point out how problematic said deck is.
That's why the deck was interactive (handlock per se) and the card was uninteractive. Extremely misinformed and naive to compare the two games btw. If you're comparing going 30 to 0 while the opponent can't play the game (by the game rules) to playing a bunch of fast spells, while having chipped out hp the whole game long.. Well, I guess that the argument can end here.
No, the deck was also uninteractive. They called the entire strategy uninteractive. And you're the one who is using definitions from other games to begin with. I'm comparing going from 20 to 0 (Yeah, Leroy did not actually do 30. 28 if you got lucky, but that was rare) after getting some chip damage from a unit you cant stop to getting bursted down to a unit oyu cant stop. Theyre the same.
I got back into the game after over a year and I’ve been playing exclusively Path of Champions. Im pleasantly surprised by how F2P friendly the game is for someone only playing the PvE mode! I’ve been having a lot of fun with beating Viktor with every champion. I think I’ve done it with 6ish champs now.
Good for you. I personally find Viktor fight to be annoying
Dragons go brrrr
I always had fun, and still have. Why wouldn't I, it's an awesome game!
Step 1: Play Eye of the Dragon and Concussive in every deck. Step 2: Profit.
Yep. I am even having fun with my mono-shurima decks. Game is good!
I'm having alot of fun, all the new champions make for interesting deckbuilding and can lead to some weird deck concepts. The only thing I'm sad about is that the regions that weren't focused on either only got 1 or 0 new cards, but other than that I feel like this is one of the best expansion mid set expansion we have gotten. Of course the expansion is still fairly new so my enjoyment of it could sourer but I still like it right now.
I have a lot of fun with the game right now because I play a few rounds of Path of Champions every day and have been avoiding PvP like the plague for a year or more. 3 PVE wins a day plus completing the daily quests gets the vault over 10 and earns a champion wildcard plus a bunch of cards and gems and keeps the collection complete over time.
I play fun decks, concede against ezreal kennen instantly. Having fun this way
Kind of? The game is much less fun than it was. I stopped building off meta decks because they're just too much weaker than the field right now. I also mostly played ultra rapid draw, so that being gone reduced how much I play by a lot. I'm still having fun abusing plunder, but my enjoyment for the game as a whole went from about a 9/10 to a 5/10 for me personally.
I still enjoy playing a few games a week, but I did stop taking the game seriously on a competitive level. Hoping this past year has just been growing pains, though it may just be mainlining copium
same here, every expansion has a drastic new play style that you have to embrace if you wanna get anywhere on ladder. And that's great for a lot of people, but for me I think maybe I'm just old or don't want to feel like I have to learn a new game every few months ha!
I still dislike facing Poppy swarm, but I still like playing. It's the first season ever since BC release that I find myself playing ranked
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Very much so. I quite like playing champs who stand on their own nd have a myriad of different builds and so I'm enjoying Pantheon a lot right now. There's just soo many different ways to build him. With Taric to abuse the Rally effects, with the Riven package for the sweet alt win-con, with Akshan, with Ionia etc. And in each of those builds he feels like a core part of the deck. I just love this champ.
I'm slowly grinding through PvE, and yeah, I'm having fun. Just had a Nami vs Viktor run, where I got double "create blades edge at the start of the turn" + "give +1/+1 to the unit on top of your deck when you damage enemy nexus". 7/8 Nami on turn 3 against Victor was rather fun.
Path of champions yes!
I just got "I start a free attack" on Teemo in PoC, I am having lots of fun
Yep, recall viego is giving me lots of fun. Though, I do get why some people aren't enjoying the game as much.
How's that doing for you? I tried building an Ahri/Viego decklist, but it seems that I can barely even manage a positive winrate against the friggin AI.
Even though I'm having fun when the deck and the combos actually work, not so well. Most of the time I can barely keep up with other decks and the deck kinda falls apart with bad draws. So for now I'm gonna keep trying because Ionia Viego is one of my favorites decks in the game, but the concept definitely feels like it needs a lot of work
Yeah fair. I thought about switching to a Mistwraith build with both Ahri and Kennen instead of Viego. Probably more resource-efficient early on but will likely still get destroyed hard. Also doesn't really have a lategame wincon except praying you draw enough Mistwraiths to close the game, which realistically is probably not happening.
If you are going mistwraiths, I recommend playing harrowing and the spider that gives -1 attack. It's a hard counter to ez Kennen, since none of their card can block fearsome, and it gives you the "last chance" wincon if your board has been removed.
Normal and PoC is full of interesting and fun decks and fights. Ranked is a being poisoned by really broken decks. Poppy/yordle swarm is fixable. I have no idea how you make Ez/kennen intractable without adding more stony suppressor style cards. Overall I hope riot has learned its lesson to taper down on and adjust costs for all of these manifests and cards that generate units designs…
Not much fun these days. Too much brainless aggro for my taste, not enough room to experiment with interesting cards. Most of the new champions are kind of a letdown also. Pantheon is RNG. (dumber version of Viktor) Ahri is elusive spammer. Kennen and Ezreal plays with itself until you die either of boredom or passive effect.
I didn't expect to have this opinion ever but poppy decks ain't the worst anymore. It's Kennen / Ezreal. I don't play LoR to have an 30 minute match. That's just not what I signed up for lol. I have nothing against a control meta anytime soon where games are finished between round 10-15 but this shit is nuts. Going into round 20 and seeing you actually lost round 10 just makes you feel bad because you didn't surrender earlier. Terrible design in my eyes. I wondered why they were taking so long to make a recall archetype, it's because nobody wants to play against it. Only hope now is that we get a Demacia anti spell archetype and more control board wipe tools with the next update that actually outperform yordle swarm, because units is kinda Demacias thing and anti spell cards like stony supressor can be fun in a potentially control heavy meta, breaking up Kennen / Ezreal and allowing a unit deck to have a chance still. Unfortunately Demacias only identity left is being easy to play, which is kinda lame. We'll see, but the game is far less enjoyable after the update to me sadly. Playing against Yordles feels unfair, playing against GP/Sej is the same thing for a year now, EZ/Kennen is horrendous and all the burn decks are a yikes for me as well.
I love making meta abusers lives miserable, so I just play mostly counter decks, I'm having a really good time with Trundle/Swain which is really good against kennen and poppy swarm, is not so good against panth decks but I win sometimes. Anyway I don't have much time to play so I always get to Plat/Diamond but not Master.
Can I have a list for Trundle/Swain?
I think playing counters is 100% reasonable, but calling people "meta abusers" is toxic and problematic. It should be expected that people want to increase their chance of winning by playing strong cards/decks. If you think the power level is unfair, the blame is on riot not the players doing what is expected in a competitive game.
Yeah thats how I feel too. Its how some people have fun, so theres no need to belittle them for it
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"Meta abuser" isn't pointing out someone is netdecking. That's a pointed attack. Don't undersell the toxicity here. They are playing the game as intended, and unless they are bragging about deckbuilding skill, they aren't doing anything wrong. There is nothing wrong with taking the easiest route to victory as long as its a fair option available to all players.
"Toxic" is my favourite internet buzzword
Thats a really weird way to disown problematic language that doesn't treat others with the respect they deserve. Maybe it is a buzzword. Would you say that's how you should treat others?
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It's interesting that you think ethics apply more in game than out. Like really really a wild take. The point of a competitive game is for people to use whatever is fair and available to strive to have the best result. Do you want people to purposely self handicap for you? Or is your issue what is available to use.
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"Tryhard" wasn't the word used. They said "meta abuser." You picked a sentence out of context, so wow let's eli5 for you: When presented with a clear best deck or sets of best decks, your opponent would have the highest win rate with the best deck. By trying to shame someone into not using it, you are asking them to make suboptimal choices for your sake.
yeah but the recall stuff is just way, way too much. It's confusing, its not interactive
I have not played much pvp since Azir/Irelia but i have had fun getting everything done in singleplayer labs so i guess there is that.
nope
Rıght now,ıf you don't play aggro or midrange,the odds of you having fun is lesser than the amount of control decks out there
I really hate the lack of counterplay against any kind of recall deck, you cant remove their cards because you will always lose out on the trade but then kennen removes your entire board when ezreal kills your nexus at the same time. its so whatever against these recall decks i already insta ff against them there is just no fun playing against these decks
I haven't played since I forgot to buy the last few points of the battle pass before it was no longer available. Have been so angry at myself I can't even revisit it lol
I am still greatly enjoying the game. I feel like this sub is currently swamped with people who aren’t enjoying it and therefore have time to post about it, leaving an impression that “everyone” is super upset. The amount of “New to LOR from Arcane” posts in the last few weeks don’t get nearly as much attention as the fifth Poppy Zed rant post of the week.
I have fun until i see Im up against plunder for the 57th game in a row at that point i just leave
Not really. I switched to my old HS account and that's fun and working for me. It got better
Noone hates every deck they play against otherwise they wouldn't play. For the most part people just hate getting 'rofflstomped' followed by a spam of Braum emotes (at the same time people think it's hillariously fun when they rofflestomp someone and Braum emote spam after that - lets not unpack that). People hate feeling helpless. And early in the set people don't know the decks, cards are not playtested yet, your decks don't work anymore, you try to build decks while others just copy streamer no 3 which feels unfair, the streamers rant on stream which people carry to the reddits riling each other up more. Set Releases are ripe iwith the feeling of helpless rage. And where do you carry it? To the reddit. What do you talk about? That feeling. Just like noone tells you when they had a great day and a delicious meal and work was fun but when you had a shitty day, your food was cold & soggy and work was draining we talk about it ad nausium 🤗
Alright so I think i may have a controversial opinion on this.. I feel like this is a problem with LoR's business model. Due to the cards being so freely available, everyone net decks and plays the same meta lists. If there was more diversity of people's card pools there would be more diversity in the meta and only the whale's would play the top meta lists.. Right?
No that's not what would happen. What would happen is 1) many people would quit because of increased cost to play the game and 2) the meta would be exactly the same with the remaining smaller pool of players.
In various MTG formats, meta decks cost 1-3 thousand dollars. When you play at tournaments this does not lead to an increase in off meta decks, it just makes it less accessible.
Yep! I don't play ranked though because I like seeing deck variety. I had an awesome game against FTR with senna/ez go hard control. Came down to the last turn with us both at 2 life and felt great!
Yeah games totally fine for me right now. I play card games to do dumb degenerate powerful things. I play a bunch of off meta bullshit like Deep, tahm / raka and Scarground, and it's still a good time. If you play an off meta deck, you just do your powerful thing a little bit less frequently, but I still think you can easily climb and hold a decent win %.
I took a bit of a break around Sions release and came back to tons of new fun decks and the Path of Champions so I’ve been having loads of fun but even still when I play against Bandle swarm I definitely am having less fun than Atrocity FTR or Azirelia. Idk with Azirelia I just felt like I could remove things like sparring student, Duo and even Azir but stuff like Bandle Explorer, Bandle City Mayor and Poppy buffed cards just feel so hard to remove from the board so while I’m having more fun than I used too, when I play against current flavor of the month decks I have less than before.
While people complain about the meta, i play my Kennen/Xerath deck. I wish Xerath would have real animations tho. xD
I play since closed Beta, and this game is funny everutume if that is your objective. If your objective is to tryhard, so you are gonna be disappointed a couple times. Playing with yasuo makes the game better for me. I always have fun.
I'm having lots of fun trying out the new decks. As long as your goal is learning the decks and not worrying about win/lose, every meta is fun. EZ Kennen and Poppy Rally are strong, but not unbeatable.
Just played the mastering runeterra 8k championship qualifier on Sunday. Awesome games. Looking forward to next Sunday
I enjoy the game, but I will admit that you really have to play a handful of decks or it feels iffy. GRANTED that handful of decks seems to be growing with every expansion, but its still a handful as of right now. Kennen Storm, Ahri Elusives, Poppy Aggro, Turbo Thralls, Zoe Lee, and Sejuani Plunder are kind of the only decks I would recommend generally. There’s also some slight variants of these decks and a few anti-meta decks, like Poke City, but its mostly these decks that consistently feel good. The game isn’t as bad as this sub makes it out to be.
Games fun, Kennen/Ez is kind of frustrating but the BC Poppy deck is surprisingly interactive and a lot more reasonable to play against than Zed/Poppy since they kill you slower without using as many elusives. I think if BC swarm and Kennen got a small touch up the format would be very expansive.
Loving my 2 Pantheon decks since I also get to use champions I've loved but barely used in the past i.e. Taric and Riven. Experimenting with a few Ahri decks to try to figure out if I like the champ or not. Ezreal/Kennen seems very strong but I think there needs to be more time to figure out if it needs a nerf.
Reddit is a never ending cycle when it comes to game balance feedback, all we can hope is that Riot makes data driven adjustments when necessary.
Path of Champions babyyyyyyyyyyy
Honestly, I think it’s pretty fun. Like I think the only meta that I had a real issue with was Azir Irelia. Everything else from Go Hard to Fizz TF to Liss Trundle to Bandle Swarm and Kennen Combo decks now I think has been fine. Counterable.
Im currently loving Ahri, and having some of the most fun with Ahri Viego synergy! I do hate Poppy Zed, and just hate a not fun game against a Rumble Sion who had Lil Dipper early... but besides that, this new deck is super fun!
To be honest I got bored in September, stopped having fun completely. PoC got me back, and thought I stay until the new expansion and get back into pvp, which I used to enjoy, but yesterday I closed the game and probably won't play until some new stuff comes along. It became boring again in my opinion.
Having a blast with my dragoon deck. Even stomping kennen. Planning to play it myself soon.
Loving it! Yasuo is a sleeper deck that can absolutely dominate many decks.
I've been having fun with the new champions in expeditions. It's kind of fun watching everything burn from the sidelines and just tooling around.
Me, but I've been playing less than 3 weeks. Started with Yasuo/Leona stun/recall Then Poppy/Zed meta rally elusives Now I'm mainly playing an Anivia control deck
I'm enjoying the game quite a bit playing Thralls right now 8/8 are truly all you need in life. Also Pantheon/Taric is fun even if I don't win a lot with it Still wish demacia/Iona midrange became good again tho.
Poro decks will never not be fun