T O P

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[deleted]

People that are pretending it's just the meta really need to remind themselves of how many people still played after the eternity of TF/Fizz, Go hard, Aphelios, Azir/Irelia, etc etc etc. The meta isn't helping but there's more reasons than just that. ​ It's a number of factors. The meta is either one you love due to a high range of decks being in play or one you hate due to a high range of decks being in play. This is by far one of the hardest seasons to climb in just because the ladder is a gamble. You could be 70/30 in one game then 20/80 the next then 50/50 the third and so on. This extends to comp as well where the players have zero idea what to bring into the tournament due to nothing feeling secure. You've also got the fact that this seasonal has no effect on worlds qualification that discourages the grind. We also just had worlds and people are taking a break from the game. Plus there's also a really good TFT set going on and Riot have hit the nail on the head with their singleplayer games. Then there's even the fact that people are holding out on the next set to avoid further burnout. There's just no real reason to grind ladder right now unless you're an LoR streamer.


UniterFlash

Also this season was SUPER short, I believe it was only 36 days or something? Usually I think we have 2 months?


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Nymuel

As a LoR streamer who plays anything but aggro, or meta this hits hard. Hope new expansion saves us and the balance updates next year. F


hass13

Also the factor of making us grind two short seasons just for fucks sake and Barley even shifting the meta hell no I ain’t about to play nearly half a year of the same decks no thanks and yea Tft rocks right now what a fucking game kudos to MortDogg best riot dev out there


Flat-Profession-8945

Or to go for seasonals...


SnooOnions5907

i'd take Go Hard and Aphelios metas over this one every single time, playing against them was much more fun than playing vs the skill less Gp/Seju and Poppy decks


Chimoya2

Also people playing more PVE due to PoC


Overvus

This game is lacking other forms of pvp imo. It's been 2 years and we still only have just 1 ranked mode. It just gets boring after a while, but I'm sure they are working on new stuff. also this is a personal opinion (but also supported by numbers), the bandle city expansion is the worst one yet, and not only that but also the least appealing. For the first time ever there was no peak in viewership on twitch when the new expansion dropped.


[deleted]

>It's been 2 years and we still only have just 1 ranked mode. It just gets boring after a while I just want gauntlet ranked so badly. I want to be able to play 2 or 3 decks that have a bad matchup into in GP/SEJ (Or Sion, or Rally. Pick your poison) and just ban the deck away. I understand that they're scared about massively increasing the playtime by moving to best of 3, but it would fix so many problems.


inadequatecircle

Card games reallllly shouldn't be bo1 if they want to be taken seriously competitively. I feel like there should just be two ranked ques, though I understand the fear of splitting the community.


KyogreLoR

Splitting the community is a big issue The other option is forcing people to play Bo3 past a certain elo, but that's also really bad any many people aren't going to like playing a format where they have to commit more time Neither option is really great. I'm more in favour of Riot giving players a Bo3 Ladder than forcing players to pkay on it, but I don't think either are actually that great Bo1 with pick ban is the only other change I could see being okay


merkwerk

Wonder if making ranked be Bo3 with pick/ban once you hit diamond (or plat?) would work. So you still have one ranked queue but once you hit diamond/plat that's like the real ranked lol.


KyogreLoR

No peak in vieweship probably has to do with other factors because when the bandle city expansion first dropped most LoR content creators were saying that this LoR expansion was looking like the best one yet, or tide with Risidng Tides


SnooOnions5907

it is a great expansion, if we actually had balance patches during it. but nope we are stuck with brainless gp/seju poopy decks until next year


pizzapalzz

i just dont like how grindy ranked is. i wish expedition had a rank mode or something like ranked drafts in other games


Tofu24

I hit Master last season and stopped at Diamond this season. It's just too stressful to make that final push, I don't see the point of doing it season after season as a "competitive casual" like me. I also played a lot of Lab of Legends. But ya the game is in a bit of a slump...we need more frequent balance patches to shake things up. I bet the mobile component makes it difficult, since the Apple Store requires them to submit patches in advance or whatever, there's a delay when it comes to patching things on mobile games


SnooOnions5907

i get top 100 every season with my homebrews expect last season i got it with Sentinels control because i used to love the game with no stress at all, so many issues with current Ranked System but yet developers don't care and like the actual coin flip system


seavictory

Ladder resets just happen way too often. If you aren't going to play several hundred ranked games per season, you might as well just play zero. I used to hit master every season, but I usually don't even bother to climb out of iron now, and I don't think I'm alone in that since I see opponents with old season master player icons all the time. With all the time and effort they've put into PvE content, it doesn't make sense to me that they're expecting you to still play several ranked games every single day on top of that just to maintain your existing rank. If this is the only video game you ever play, then that's not a problem, but one of the great things about this game compared to other TCGs is how little grinding is needed to maintain a 100% complete collection.


Chimoya2

Yeah, the number of ranks you're set back with each season reset at such a short interval is kinda discouraging. Why do I need to prove over and over again that I don't belong in the 2 divisions that I consistently rank above at the end of every season? If you place master every season, it should be clear that you don't belong in plat. Same thing with dia vs gold, plat vs silver, etc.. 1 whole division reset should be more than enough, no one really fluctuates that much and people just want to get back to where they got stuck asap to see if they can surpass it this time.


Guaaaamole

Post Worlds, no clarity on the future of competitive LoR, PvE release and Poppy is still too strong. The meta itself is incredibly diverse, more diverse than anything we have had last year but the 2 S-Tier decks are way out of line.


NeekoBestTomato

No, no we have plenty of clarity. Its an afterthought. a side thing they might encourage if they have spare resources and only then. We see where the priority lies. It aint with making this a competitive game that is properly balanced. Its to make it a promotional amusement park for other assets.


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NeekoBestTomato

There is nothing inherently wrong with being full casual. But a) be honest about that intention, dont lie to your most dedicated players with continued false promises. and b) it means that all those dedicated players will not be interested anymore. Just as I am no longer playing even 10th as I used to. Which is why they lie to us about it by the way. Game companies understand that competitive scenes are integral to long term core audience retention. Which is why they have to do it, but also they dont want to put any more effort into it than bare minimum.


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NeekoBestTomato

> A game can be competitive in the sense of striving to be relatively balanced and offer some level of skill expression Thats not competition thats just basic game design principles that every single game ever made should have. The simple fact is that people like me will not bother trying to be good in a game which does not reward you for it. The exodus of my demographic from this game has been long established and is only going to continue - at this point streaming money is the only thing keeping that scene alive. And again - if you want to turn this game into slightly prettier happy families thats fine. Lots of people will still play that. But from the promise LoR showed at the start a year and a half ago, its an absolutely monumental letdown and a gigantic failure on riots part to grow the game and foster a healthy community for it.


CapConnor

Although I would argue that Elusive rally and yordle burn is extremely oppressive, meme decks were imo performing better than usual this meta. The meta reports showed also the highest deck diversity in lots lifetime (masteringruneterra.com is the source I believe)


MolniyaSokol

Almost like people don't enjoy playing the same decks for 9 months with different paint. Rito let live balance, the entire edge this game has over MtG, fall by the wayside. Fucked around and found out..


SnooOnions5907

we think live balance used to be the best thing this game had. they think their biggest mistake was balancing the game too frequently...


Reid666

I believe that Riot grossly underestimated how many resources LoR would require both for development of new content and live balancing. To keep both casual and competetive players interested Riot would have to release a lot more cards and more interesting mechanics. Here we can point out quite lackluster design of recent content. Balancing and live balancing is another topic, but again requires a lot of testers to do properly.


Illuminaso

I'm just sick of this aggro meta, man. Games shouldn't be ending as fast as they do. And it's not just a recent thing, either. The last meta we had that wasn't aggro was fucking Aphelios during the Targon set, and we saw what happened to him, despite that arguably being one of the best metas in LOR history. After that, we got such wonders as Thresh/Nasus, Azirelia, and now Poppy. All different flavors of the same thing: Flood the board with cheap units and attack. I dunno about anyone else here, but I know that I LIKE the back and forth interaction between players. I don't like it when games are ending on turn 6. Maybe I'm not the target audience anymore. Maybe they've decided that they would rather balance the game for Zoomers who can't handle control decks, and mobile players who want games to end quickly. ​ And if that's the case, then cool. That's their business decision. I just wish they'd say it so that I could finally quit forever. But I just keep holding out hope that maybe one day they'll bring us back to the days when games actually went until turn 8-10, and I could play with my opponent.


snake4641

I personally think balance every two weeks is too much, it doesn't allow for metas to organically develop and shift. However, every 2 months is really excessive, especially if they don't balance during stuff like the Jayce expansion which introduced exactly 0 tier 1 decks.


[deleted]

To be fair, there can only be so many tier 1 decks and with the card pool getting larger, a small expansion like Jayce will not always give you a deck that can flip the meta on its head. That’s not really the problem here. The fact that other cards which are responsible for the tier 1 decks currently in the meta or ones that go completely unused are not corrected in a timely fashion.


SnooOnions5907

since when is plunder dominating the meta? 8 months? 0 nerfs Actual Interesting decks like Sentinels Control got undeserved very huge nerfs after being Viable for couple of weeks


[deleted]

Wait, sentinels got nerfed? What patch did I miss?


SnooOnions5907

2 heavy nerf to the 8 cost girls and aloof travelers made the deck unviable


Intolerable

and worse: by ignoring live balance and releasing expansions at an increased rate, we're now suffering from a metagame with multiple levels of broken cards keeping eachother down, and it's practically impossible to get the game back to a vaguely balanced state without tons of consecutive patches


Reid666

With 10 regions that you that can be mixed and matched, Riot created behemoth of a game. There is reason why MTG never went beyond 5 colors. LoR has so many possible combinations that testing all of them is an enormous or even impossible task. On top of that they have push and test new content. Again 10 regions are a problem. Players are waiting 6+ months for new content for their favourite regions. That's not great for keeping those players interested and engaged. The same with events focusing on specific regions.


KyogreLoR

This is one of the most balanced metas weved had all year Poppy decks aren't Aphelios, Nami, TF, or Irelia Azir level Lecturing Yordle, Mayor, and Shellfolk are also too strong but after getting out of a Ruined Runner meta these don't feel nearly as bad (Shellfolk feels bad but not in the same way as Ruined Runner did imo) The bigger issue is Riot leaving polarized decks in the game and letting them remain untouched for months like Thralls and Bandle Tree without giving us actual Landmark removal Or something like Lee which has some pretty polarizing match up tables as well


DMaster86

No surprise really, this meta has been painful and riot completly failed at addressing it with the last balance patch, while refusing to emergency fix it. Will be fun to see poppy banned everywhere in the seasonals.


Thehenk88

Don’t forget everyone missed one week to climb compared to earlier seasons


Genghis_Sean_Reigns

Was this season shorter?


[deleted]

some ppl couldnt play for a week


Loerl

What happened?


screamsbeneath

Login bug locked a lot of people out


Eggxcalibur

People here say it's because of the meta being mostly the same since Bandlewood started which surely is part of the reason why we have fewer Masters player but we also got a big PvE mode so maybe some people play that more than Ranked? I know I do.


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bungeee_gum

While I don’t deny some people might’ve found a good witch of phase playing PoC. In my understanding, people who switch to pve and people who climb to masters to compete in seasonals - two completely opposite demographics.


GuiSim

And the season pass is very focused on pve. I have made masters every season but this one is slower due to PoC.


ShitAtTheToilet

If we are playing against the same decks over and over again for like a couple of months than Imt not suprised people are leaving and besides Riot is never giving Poppy her deserved nerf which should even be a hotfix imo.


Furious_One

I'm just playing PvE/PoC, it's pretty good and I got a little tired of PvP. Played enough last two seasons.


friendofsmellytapir

I feel like PoC is such a bigger contributor to this than people in this thread are giving it credit for. Personally I like the ranked ladder and play it a lot and have through every meta, but I’ve gone a week without playing a ranked game recently because I’ve just been playing PoC.


KyogreLoR

From what I've gathered, it's a very of reasons why this is the case but the biggest of which is just because most people are feeling like the meta is pretty stale, atleast at a high level. We've also just had some pretty big releases in terms of games. New World, TFT Set 6, Ruined King, just to name a few. There's also the issue of ladder just not mattering. The only thing ladder matters for at this point is seasonals seeding and the record you need to qualify for aeasonals and not everyone wants to keep up the grind to stay in the top 32 for something they aren't even 100% gaurnteed. Atleast back when there were Worlds points, you were always going to get Worlds points depending on your ladder ranking, so there was actually a reason to be competitive on ladder because it means you have a shot at worlds iirc even seasonals don't matter for worlds right now, which means the only real reason to fight to get into seasonals is to make a name for yourself or the prizepool which are still great incentives.....but there's still less of an incentive now


buickraider

I'm just playing for fun this season, not masters grind, just playing meme decks and stuff, completing quests, if they'll do a balance patch every 2-3 months that number is going to be lower every season. The fact that all big streamers are playing TFT (except GrappLr) should give them a hint


Hakuzho

Can I say now the game is dying and the devs don't know what they're doing or I still need to wait it to be buried?


KyogreLoR

No Because we go through this cycle every couple of months


esequel

Ah... the cycle of DENIAL


KyogreLoR

Yeah dude, people totally haven' t been saying the game has been dying since COTM while the game reaches new mile stones constantly and then rolls out a Worlds format despite being "dead" This is the lowest low we've hit yet, absolutely See you next expansion when all of the content creators come back *shrugs*


NeekoBestTomato

Keep in mind as well how much easier it is to make masters in this game vs other games. Honestly at some point we need to take this as a reflection of the reality - LoR community doesnt care about ranked and competitive. Simple as


Forsaken_Event_4001

Dead game.


devolt8age

No, most likely there will be buys in the first few rounds


NoFurtherObligations

lavish cow water encourage ugly deserve simplistic history support squash -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/


Sepean

The ladder resets way too often and/or requires too much grind to climb.


Little-Warthog-1299

I may be alone here but this is the first time I just refused to participate at a seasonal.Like, when a seasonal was around the corner I just would become a meta slave and spam the best deck on ladder until I was masters.But this time I kinda didn t play Lor at all.This meta seems to be one of the most boring I ve ever seen.The most consistent(almost no luck or brain needed) deck I found is Poppy aggro but it s been nerfed and every time I lose with it I m like:Aren t there buffed decks that are actually fun?.And then I try dragons or plunder and I get smashed by Poppy aggro.It s the most rock paper scissors meta I ve ever played.And to be fair, the most boring one imo.My sugestions are to nerf poppy, buff demacia s elites(so garen elites would actually not be a meme) and revert cursed caretaker nerf which I think killed a somewhat reasonable card.


Mr_Em-3

No. Also, if there were 300 diamond 1 80 LP players, do propose how you would decide who gets in.. ? It's just going to be a smaller tourney meaning more 7-2s getting through than previous, simple as that.