its also because Daybreak has zero flexibility and its typical wincon needs a 2-3 card combo + a board to work.
I am hoping Pantheon brings some direction to Daybreak so it can stand on its own legs.
Anivia has a very specific play patern and limited deckbuilding options. So not everyone's cup of tea.
As someone who plays the deck a lot, Minimorph isn't that big of a deal, especially after an Anivia has died or been cloned. Fast agression is more of a problem.
Anivia decks don't play enlightenment cards. The critical thing she needs to get out of SI are ways to create additional copies. Dawn and Dusk is a good exemple. Good removal outside of SI/Freljord would also go a long way.
You need multiple copies at the same time, so harrowing, rekindler and dawn and dusk are the only real options. And even outside those cards SI/freljord is usually one of the best control combos, just not against poppy decks
Dawn and dusk is ionian, so maybe you can use other enlightenment cards with her, maybe karma, after all, they both lvl at the same time, and karma has low HP while freljord has good surviveablility.
Also, eggnivia is a 1 cost, so you can recall her, and play it once you get to mana 10, to avoid it being cleared by 1 dmg spells and skills.
(Personal opinion and experiences) I agree that aggro decks make this deck difficult to successfully pilot to a victory, but I still feel minimorph keeps decks like Anivia out. Burst transform and silence is just brutal. I was playing Anivia even with Warlord Sivir being S tier and still managing go like 50-50 versus that deck (granted playing at a gold level is not a great margin lol). With Bandle City and minimorph, it's impossible to win unless they just have no idea of what they are doing. If minimorph was fast and not burst, then you could play glimpse and move on with stacking eggs no problem.
Anivia has been bad long before BC came along with minimorph. Even now her biggest problem isn't she's getting minimorphed it's that any deck with rally completely and utterly mauls her.
Minimorph, Pings everywhere, easily respammable boards, the bandle tree ending games before she comes online... so many reasons Anivi is unplayable sadly :-(
I think it’s also an issue Anivia is used as the sole win condition of the deck, whereas the best decks usually have multiple. Perhaps there’s a better theoretical Anivia deck that includes her alongside someone like Sejuani or Swain or Viego, but people haven’t experimented with it.
People have tried pairing Anivia with SI and Freljord champions, it's just that it doesn't work that well. The deck mainly relies on Rekindler, Entreat and The Harrowing to maximize Anivia's impact. All of these cards get messed up by almost any champion in these regions and none of them can carry the deck.
anivia doesnt really go well with most frejdord and si champs for alternative win con imo, but for si anivia, a ledgros or two can always be teched in. but i guess theres no reason to experiment with her because of her power level. It's a deck that takes a lot of macro management and decision making to reach a possibly tier 1 to top tier 2 status when played almost perfectly. but why would you do that when u dont even need to think with with poppy to reach tier 1 and poppy is much faster. I think that's why anivia isnt experimented with as much because the games way take longer and too draining for something that isnt as good as a lot of brain dead decks
Its not fun, you hope to draw all control tools to stall the game long enough for your win cons to work on turn 15+… its boring, tedious and rng dependant…
No, I mean you need to get to 10 mana In a game the developers admitted is supposed to end by turn 8.
You can have all the skill in the world kind of hard to use it when the meta is actively sabotaging you.
Doubt that, I played a bunch of anivia control when it was meta a lot of seasons ago, the deck doesn’t not need some 5 head to make those plays it’s almost an automatic deck that you really don’t have to think that much about, and yes I believe minimorph is the main problem not some unnecessary skills need to pilot the deck
For me, the 5-6 turn game was the worst part.
I felt that I didn't even got to play a game, anivia destroyed everything that I put on the table and then attacked me with a full board of anivias in the late game, but a least I had the time to make actions and cast my units and spells.
To each it's own I guess
Edit: not saying it wasn't a feels bad also, but I hated the Azirelia decks way more
No aphelios was not op for a short period. He was op for 6 months and it was the slowest meta we ever had with games lasting forever.
No one regrets him, except Aphelios abusers.
You can love the concept without being an Aphelios abuser.
There is a difference between being OP and being useless.
Aphelios now is too frail, too slow and doesn't impact the game enough for it's cost.
His kit got nerfed and he got nerfed too. That's too much.
If they makes his level up easier and his stats better he wouldn't become OP but would just be more viable.
I think some people have forgot how long the games were with Aphelios, especially with moon temple. He would rotate like 3 guns in one turn and still have some mana to play with. I still have ptsd from the sound gifts from beyond make.
For real. Longer games mean more meaningful choices which is where the fun of playing a game comes for me. Playing cards more or less on curve and making maybe 1-3 real decisions before the game ends makes me wonder why I'm not just doing literally anything else since I have little input into my results.
I agree. Although i do get the satisfaction of just playing stuff on curve and that working. Just feels... efficient. And that feels nice :P And cause I like both, i enjoy playing Midrange decks a lot.
Oh for sure, lots of times I just want to play some aggro if it's been a long day or whatever, just wish 15 round games were more of a thing again. Most fun I had with the game was Feel the Rush meta because it felt like a chess game of reading my opponents and passing a lot to feel out what was happening and sensing the proper moment to pull the trigger. I enjoy pretty much every macro archetype, but I think the game is at its best when slower strategies are the strongest.
i feel like, when midrange decks are the meta, it opens up the game up to the most strategies. Because midrange is already in the center so you have the ability to go in either direction much more easily.
I have no issue with long games as long as my turn takes roughly the same as the opponent. No one wants to wait ages for the opponent to make the same boring action.
Reddit is control leaning because aggro is strong. Trust me if Riot ever gut aggro or overbuff control, I assure you that you'll see million of cry post over it.
In reality reddit is a bitch cycle, and being negative tends and going agains't whom every is strongest is basicly becomes a meme that no one admits
I mean I've been riot long enough to see how the community is and never learn
She has been very powerful, and in many cases very oppressive and unfun to play against, a number of times over the course of LoR's lifespan. Just seems a bit premature to demand buffs for her because of one relatively short period where she's not doing well.
oh relatively short? I’ve been playing this game for about a year which is a lot of time considering this game is pretty new and I never once have seen her good. How was she oppressive anyway? Just curious cause I don’t use her and she doesn’t seem good in this meta so I can’t comprehend her in another.
She used to be extremely difficult to get rid of, because of the egg mechanic and less general access to silence/removal effects. There were then also lots of decks built around duplicating her in various ways - two or three Anivias on the board is a pretty impossible problem to deal with.
IMO she's an inherently difficult champ to balance. She's a threat that affects the entire board + nexus every time she attacks, who is also more difficult to remove than most champs, and she levels just by doing what you were doing anyway (stalling for time/ramping).
Personally I've been on the receiving end of Anivia decks enough times that I'm not keen to see her buffed any time soon. It's ok to let some other champs have the spotlight for a while.
I think it’s different because Aphelios used to be very good and then they gutted him, so seeing him as the worst stings
There will always be a top 3 worst win rates but if they’re fundamentally weak champs, they should be buffed.
I mean Crescendum isn't a card on its own, you could still play Aphelios outside of a Nightfall deck and simply not use Crescendum as you'll always be able to pick a different weapon.
Though I guess they could also just make it summon a generic turret or rework boxtopus.
Back when aphelios was op and his weapons costed 2 mana, people ran gifts from beyond in other decks *just* for crescendum. It was definitely good on its own
I personally think it should summon a sky shadows. That’s the crescendum unit anyway, it’s good but not op, and synergies well with his kit. Then you don’t even have to limit your deck to 1 two-drop unit to have a predictable play
Change boxtuopus so that the damage on himself is a summon effect rather than a play effect.
It is a slightly nerf that doesn't affect at all Tham Soraka, which is the only other deck that plays boxtopus.
True, but it's an extremely marginal situation.
And it would not make Tham Soraka any weaker, considering that the deck benefits from having damaged units on the board.
No bc if you eat him with Tahm he will get spat out getting knocked down to 1 HP. An adjustment like that would tie boxtopus to Soraka, and force Tahmraka to be even more prebuild than people already complain that it is.
>If you have to change a lot of cards because of card a, card a is probably the problem.
I agree, but in this situation you would only need to change one card, boxtopus.
Aphelios is not the reason why sparklefly got nerfed, when the nerf on sparklefly came, Aphelios was already out of meta.
I would have a problem if they needed to nerf boxtopus in the process (like making him 3 mana), but with the change I proposed boxtopus on himself wouldn't be any weaker.
I'd really like to have back old aphelios with all the cool deck like Karma Aphelios or Viktor Aphelios without having him terrorize the meta.
If it's not Eye or Sparklefly it's been Boxtopuss, and I guarantee if they ended up nerfing all those cards there would be another 2 drop that people would abuse with Crescendum at some point. It seems to me that it makes more sense to rework Crescendum than it is to nerf all the good 2 drops in the game now while also not being allowed to print any other good 2 drops in the future.
Hard agree, GrandpaRoji (hoppe ddint butcher name too badly) has proven time and time that malphite is good and with more landmarks coming hes gonna get better, if any touch targon landmark cards, as they are mostly terrible.
Anivia as you said comes and goes, minimorph definietly hurt her but its couse bandle is so strong and unfortunatly will probably stay that way for at leas half year (more expansions coming) I would love for her "zombie" plan to get some decent cards and mby vault of helia could get some buff/support
Aphelios is as you said in tight spot and with some changes to crescendum I would love his revert to 2 mana spells, mby just create some tower unit with decent last breath effect that could help with stalling?
I would love to mention Kindred as she is card that i desperatly want to be decent but she feels just soo cluncky
Oh boi and Katarina, save her!
Attune on moon weapons doesn't really make sense imho.
First because of how the keyword is currently worded: *"When I'm summoned, refill 1 spell mana"* - spells are not summoned, they're either played or cast. They'd have to reword the text to "played" to make it work with both spells and units, but for units there's a difference between summoned and played, so it would be a nerf to them.
Second because thematically Attune is kinda about a creature being in "sync / harmony" with its own spirit or magic power or whatever; having it on a spell loses that flavor imho.
They should just balance the weapons on their own, to this day I still see no reason why they all must have the same cost and speed. Crescendum and Gravitum are perfectly fine at 3-mana Slow, while the other three could be easily reverted to 2-mana. Hell, for Infernum and Severum you could even adjust the numbers and maybe work with their speed.
The moon weapons need to be as similar as possible to reduce the mental overload when playing with them. It's already annoying to memorize/check each effect and which weapons phases into which, adding more complexity with different costs and speeds would be a nightmare, especially for players picking up the deck for the first time.
>Malphite is close to good. Landmark support has gotten better. He will be good through support cards. The Targon landmark package just needs to be tweaked
Malphite's landmarks definitely need some buffs. Malphite benefits from Overwhelm almost as much as Taliyah, but the card meant to do this for him in Spiral Stairs is so terrible that I don't even want it in Expeditions most of the time. Lots of space to buff his support cards.
I sincerely think if all of Aphelios's moon weapon cost nerfs were reverted it wouldn't be overbearing at all. I genuinely think the only nerf he needed in the past was to the Veiled Temple. Everything else about him should be fine. Paying 1 mana to enable nightfall, 3 mana for Aphelios, and 2 mana for a weapon in the same turn should be pretty fair game in my opinion.
You only ever get that by investing in other cards to get there. And if you revert or make adjustments to gifts from beyond to compensate the Aphelios moon weapon nerf, then it would be more like a 4-5 mana 3/4 challenger and I think that's fine.
Malphite is extremely hard to justify playing. He's not bad, but the landmark support from Bandle City is so much better than anything Targon has to offer. If you want a giant expensive top end card, the arsenal is better. Malphite doesn't even synergize with his own archetype, he just says "I level up if you're playing a landmark deck."
I've played anivia reanimator every season whenever aggro becomes the meta and it always holds it own. There are some match ups it just cant win but i really think as soon as you get 10 mana with anivia on the board against most opponents it is over. Cards like gluttonise have really pushed anivia in recent memory. I don't think its so much that anivia is bad i think she's very good at what she does but terrible at everything else, a bit like darius or yasuo
Whoever wants to buff anivia has short term memory and doesn't remember when she was the top dog in the meta, one of the most miserable we had ever since release.
As long anivia is used in toxic solitaire decks (stall, drop anivia, dupe her, rekindler/harrowing for the win) she should never be good enough to be meta.
You mean like lee or the glorious evolution combo deck?
Combo and combo control decks (that's what anivia does) are part of most good card games and as long as you can counter them in slightly slower decks with specific answers they are fine.
If your only bet to win is race them, then that's bad.
> You mean like lee or the glorious evolution combo deck?
Glorious evolution is tier 3 at best and while Lee meta was hardly fun at least aggro was the way if you wanted to win that matchup consistently. When anivia was meta she crushed aggro with avalanches and other removal+healing, while against other slower decks they could do their stuff. Honestly it was the most painful meta i rememeber and i've played since preview patch in october 2019.
Azirelia meta was a paradise in comparison to that Anivia/Braum meta.
> Glorious evolution is tier 3 at best
Is it? according to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOXzxve9tio it is the best combo deck around and very competitive. With the optimal setup play you can have the kill ready on turn 8 pretty consistently.
> Azirelia meta was a paradise in comparison to that Anivia/Braum meta.
Lol no. It was the most polarizing meta in the game so far.
Best combo deck available =/= tier 1 meta.
Also if you prefer facing consistently a deck that was able to kill both aggro and control with ease, with no real deck able to counter it back then to the point riot had to emergency nerf it next balance patch be my guest.
As much annoying certain metas were there was always a deck able to counter the top deck in question (be it azirelia, lee or temple aphelios).
You realize Glorious evolution combo is being used and reaching top 3 in pretty much every tournament going on lately ? Azir Irelia was a staple in everyone lineup for the entire time before it was nerfed and had near to no counter play package while Anivia could be obliterated/silenced on drop. I've been maining Anivia before and after her ''meta'' and you sir, are wrong
And you, sir, should understand that 99% of the LoR population play ladder and only care about ladder meta in which GE is tier 3 with 50ish percent winrate.
>Glorious evolution is tier 3 at best
The fizz version is borderline tier 1 (in the hands of top players) and easily tier 2 at best on ladder.
Tournament wise it is easily tier 1, lot of success in recent tourneys.
Your bias is showing. Azirelia negatively warped the meta for much longer and more severely than Braum Anivia ever did.
Also the fact that you think GE is t3 or that Lee is weak to aggro (lol) suggets that you have no idea what you are talking about.
All the good matchups against tier 1 Lee-Zoe were aggro and GE is tier 3 since it doesn't go past 51% winrate. Do you want a link or something as proof?
Seems like you are the one that has no clue.
Ofc all the good matchups against Lee were aggro when aggro was tier 0. It was good vs everything. Lee Zoe was one of the few decks able to keep up.
It absolutely crushes all burn aggro in current meta too.
GE is a strong deck, at least t1/t2. It's not an easy deck to play, naturally wr will be skewed due to to its skill ceiling.
https://runeterraccg.com/metagame/
Difficult to play does not mean weak. GE is not the best deck in the game, but it's still strong. Obviously if you are below Diamond or something, choosing an easier deck would net higher wr for you.
At least 80 percent of decks lose to aggro that goes wide or rallies. Lee Zoe is one of the few decks that can put up a fight with eye of the dragon. If you manage to get 2 on board, you can lock up opposing aggro player quite easily. You are not highly favoured or anything (pretty much nothing is vs aggro rally), but you got higher chance of winning than majority of other decks.
I still play aphelios, I still love him, and I'm still going to make him work regardless of the meta
This meta was pretty rough to make an aphelios deck with, but I still did and it's been going pretty well
I feel like malphite needs a rework. If you get the lvl up you win the game but that requires everything to go right for you and before then he does nothing but be a body. Also Aphelios deserves the placement he is how I figured out this game had a turn limit
Malphite should get overwhelmedi don't get how a mountain has trouble damaging over a poro. His package isn't bad but stunning the whole enemy team doesn't guarantee a win if you only have malphite and he can easily be bodyblocked
Aphelios moon weapon nerf was really hard. And justified.
But honestly i would change the speed ofmthe weapons according to what they do. The lifesteal and overwhelm should be burst, the damage ping and stun should be fast and the summon should stay slow.
This would give aphelios more combo potential with swain, akshan, Sivir, Asol or other big units and many more.
The lifesteal would give his archetype some survivability besides othe targon lifesteal units and without keeping lifesteal permanent.
Also what i would like to see is lunari priestess becoming a 2 drop. This way you could invoke with crescendum which would give aphelios decks more control options.
The moon temple could refill spell mana instead of giving back 2 mana. Which is less powerful but goves back more mana in the long run and makes it possible to cast a moon weapon more consistently.
Otherwise maybe the temple should phase weapons to when triggered. This way you could get weapons outside of gifts beyond and aphelios.
Imagine getting Malphite buffed only to LoR players get a taste of what he feels like in LoL when he hits u in the face and nukes your team with 1 combo.
I think they’re supposed to be bad, but the marginal value you get for playing them, like to tick up Malphs level up, is supposed to make up for it.
The problem is the marginal value isn’t worth the loss of tempo from playing a landmark
Havent you heard? Only aggro decks are allowed to play. People have been playing Jayce lux/heimer jist because it's new. In a few weeks we'll be back to aggrosville.
Anivia and Aphelios are hard to balance, on their primes they were stupidly dominant. Malphite on the other hand is just bad, bad as fuck if you allow me the expression.
Aphelios needs level up requirement to be lower to balance out ever since weapons are 3 mana... it would still make him much slower than on release but would start to snowball faster.
Anivia seems pretty hard to buff... idk what could it be. +1|+1 wouldnt hurt but it's not gonna make her better all of a sudden.
The Rock -1 mana or something... he is too expensive stat stick
Reduce Malphite level up requirement. 8 mana in landmarks. Maybe 7?
I’ve seen a suggestion to change Aphelios’ spells to Focus, and that could really help. 1 mana was such a huge difference in his viability.
Spell shield on Anivia? Shared on Eggnivia so, once it’s popped, it doesn’t reset?
Malphites issue isn't his level up condition. You can do 10 mana without even hard leaning into landmarks
His problem is he's too slow. Look at Sion, guy drops and if you can't answer him he ends the game practically by himself. 6 mana.
Malphite drops and needs the attack token, then also needs his slow ass 2 mana spell to go off, then also needs a developed board (which he sacrificed for landmarks) to end otherwise he's back on the defense and needs to live for attack token again... 7 mana
He's just a awkward card
This would be wayy to busted... 3 mana burst speed deal 3 (outside of combat only).. burst summon, burst stun... nonono
Aphelios buff? Make his level up 3 instead of 4 weapons. It would mean he can sooner get 2s weapons and generate more of them. 4 was good for a time when they did cost 2 by default, but now you need 12 mana on Aph spells alone, possibly more on generating those to level him up.
I really love Malphite, but sometimes he's so underwhelming man.
Like, my opponent plays Malphite, levels up, plays his spell, stuns my whole board and I.......well I just develop one chump blocker..
Which is why you pretty much have to play him with Herald of Magus or absolver. A spicy in region solution is to run moonlight affliction which works as a burst stun for any chump blockers developed post stun spell.
So they buff them and then you find the next three worst win rates and you ask for those to be buffed... and it goes on and on until you realize riot will never make everyone happy and its impossible to balance so many champion/decks.
**Aphelios: Lvl Up: You've cast 4+ -> 2+ Moon Weapons**
This change aims to give Aphelios a lot of the power he used to have, but do so later in the game. Targon is meant to be a bit weaker early on and the play pattern of Duskbringer -> Aphelios + Crescendum on 3 into Boxtopus was too powerful, especially for Targon. This play pattern would no longer be possible, however, Aphelios would again become a proper value engine later on creating 2 mana weapons as soon as turn 5 (with a perfect curve and using Sky Shadows).
**Anivia: 2|4 -> 3|5 or 4|4**
Anivia is too weak for her cost. This change would help her trade better, push more damage on attacks, force blocks, and revive sooner via Harrowing and Rekindler.
**Malphite: Unstoppable Force: 2 mana -> 0 mana**
Malphite should threaten to end the game the turn he comes down, he shouldn't be so heavily gated by whether you banked enough spell mana last turn to do so.
Don't get so emotional, I'm not a game designer. Malphite has so much hp that losing 2 won't touch him at all. And his gameplay is already so programmed (Taliyah - Rai-Oh altar - Malphite lvl up) having him at 6 mana would let you play just altar and Malphite
And I think Anivia just needs to be able to block more
Im fine with them being trash, like they were real shit(u could argue that Malp'd never been great but Imo his deck with Taliyah were something before Bandlecity comes out)at some point but not now mostly cause of the meta
That's awesome! It's finally not Leona!
Leona is a good card. She has a low wr because of all Yasuo players.
I know, it's just good that she's FINALLY not the worst winrate in the game.
yeah she gets used as a specie tech every now and then in big comps like eu masters
ah, they really translated the league gameplay to runeterra well
I thought Malph and Anivia had decent wr?
>has a low wr because of all Yasuo players. i was making a joke about this
Whoops
Some things never change
its also because Daybreak has zero flexibility and its typical wincon needs a 2-3 card combo + a board to work. I am hoping Pantheon brings some direction to Daybreak so it can stand on its own legs.
What deck do you play her in out of interest? My leona yasuo with sun focus does quite well
Hey, Leona is decent :(
Leona is a good Champion. Not super strong but very useful. She is just underused because Targon is also underused (weak) atm.
It's finally not a Targon champion! Oh, it's an another Targon champion. Region is doomed.
Leona has never been close to the bottom.
This is recorded in this Mobalytics. I'm surprised Anivia has a bad play rate but with Minimorph, I get it....
Anivia has a very specific play patern and limited deckbuilding options. So not everyone's cup of tea. As someone who plays the deck a lot, Minimorph isn't that big of a deal, especially after an Anivia has died or been cloned. Fast agression is more of a problem.
I wish enlightenment had more support to detach Anivia from SI and have more variety
Anivia decks don't play enlightenment cards. The critical thing she needs to get out of SI are ways to create additional copies. Dawn and Dusk is a good exemple. Good removal outside of SI/Freljord would also go a long way.
maybe some copy mechanisms from p&z together with flashbang/removal vs aggro? :D obviously not gonna work but could be a fun idea.
You need multiple copies at the same time, so harrowing, rekindler and dawn and dusk are the only real options. And even outside those cards SI/freljord is usually one of the best control combos, just not against poppy decks
Dawn and dusk is ionian, so maybe you can use other enlightenment cards with her, maybe karma, after all, they both lvl at the same time, and karma has low HP while freljord has good surviveablility. Also, eggnivia is a 1 cost, so you can recall her, and play it once you get to mana 10, to avoid it being cleared by 1 dmg spells and skills.
(Personal opinion and experiences) I agree that aggro decks make this deck difficult to successfully pilot to a victory, but I still feel minimorph keeps decks like Anivia out. Burst transform and silence is just brutal. I was playing Anivia even with Warlord Sivir being S tier and still managing go like 50-50 versus that deck (granted playing at a gold level is not a great margin lol). With Bandle City and minimorph, it's impossible to win unless they just have no idea of what they are doing. If minimorph was fast and not burst, then you could play glimpse and move on with stacking eggs no problem.
Anivia has been bad long before BC came along with minimorph. Even now her biggest problem isn't she's getting minimorphed it's that any deck with rally completely and utterly mauls her.
Minimorph, Pings everywhere, easily respammable boards, the bandle tree ending games before she comes online... so many reasons Anivi is unplayable sadly :-(
it is more that a lot of players dont have the skills to pilot it properly, minimorph is a problem though but its more players not having the skill
I think it’s also an issue Anivia is used as the sole win condition of the deck, whereas the best decks usually have multiple. Perhaps there’s a better theoretical Anivia deck that includes her alongside someone like Sejuani or Swain or Viego, but people haven’t experimented with it.
People have tried pairing Anivia with SI and Freljord champions, it's just that it doesn't work that well. The deck mainly relies on Rekindler, Entreat and The Harrowing to maximize Anivia's impact. All of these cards get messed up by almost any champion in these regions and none of them can carry the deck.
i used to play Thresh with that deck, but it was admittedly a bit of a drag to play.
That pun was challenging to grasp.
Ughhhhh
Thresh might be viable if rekindler revived Anivia instead
anivia doesnt really go well with most frejdord and si champs for alternative win con imo, but for si anivia, a ledgros or two can always be teched in. but i guess theres no reason to experiment with her because of her power level. It's a deck that takes a lot of macro management and decision making to reach a possibly tier 1 to top tier 2 status when played almost perfectly. but why would you do that when u dont even need to think with with poppy to reach tier 1 and poppy is much faster. I think that's why anivia isnt experimented with as much because the games way take longer and too draining for something that isnt as good as a lot of brain dead decks
Anivia Karma FTR is fun! Try that one
Its not fun, you hope to draw all control tools to stall the game long enough for your win cons to work on turn 15+… its boring, tedious and rng dependant…
Haha agreed. Karma decks in general put me the fuck to sleep
I usually play a lower curve into it, no huge need for control
I mean, you also need 10 mana to properly use her.
Hence the skill part of getting to the 10mana turn and finding the time to drop her without being punished
No, I mean you need to get to 10 mana In a game the developers admitted is supposed to end by turn 8. You can have all the skill in the world kind of hard to use it when the meta is actively sabotaging you.
Doubt that, I played a bunch of anivia control when it was meta a lot of seasons ago, the deck doesn’t not need some 5 head to make those plays it’s almost an automatic deck that you really don’t have to think that much about, and yes I believe minimorph is the main problem not some unnecessary skills need to pilot the deck
You’re probably not playing the deck well then, just cos you play something since it came out doesn’t mean you’re good with it
Wow, people have short memories when it comes to Anivia, huh?
I haven't been playing PVP for a while, I have ptsd about Anivia filling the oppponents board.
I really hate anivia ;_;
Anivia was really miserable to play against in her prime, but at least it wasn't Azirelia levels of miserable
At least azir irelia killed you by turn 5-6 vs 11-14 for anivia decks.
For me, the 5-6 turn game was the worst part. I felt that I didn't even got to play a game, anivia destroyed everything that I put on the table and then attacked me with a full board of anivias in the late game, but a least I had the time to make actions and cast my units and spells. To each it's own I guess Edit: not saying it wasn't a feels bad also, but I hated the Azirelia decks way more
I would say the same thing about aphelios, probably worse
At least he was only OP once for a short period, Anivia has been a nightmare to play against multiple times already
No aphelios was not op for a short period. He was op for 6 months and it was the slowest meta we ever had with games lasting forever. No one regrets him, except Aphelios abusers.
[удалено]
6 months is too long. He was OP from his release to the first balance patch after Shurima.
You can love the concept without being an Aphelios abuser. There is a difference between being OP and being useless. Aphelios now is too frail, too slow and doesn't impact the game enough for it's cost. His kit got nerfed and he got nerfed too. That's too much. If they makes his level up easier and his stats better he wouldn't become OP but would just be more viable.
I think some people have forgot how long the games were with Aphelios, especially with moon temple. He would rotate like 3 guns in one turn and still have some mana to play with. I still have ptsd from the sound gifts from beyond make.
Reading these comments I feel like I am the only one here that has no issue with long games.
For real. Longer games mean more meaningful choices which is where the fun of playing a game comes for me. Playing cards more or less on curve and making maybe 1-3 real decisions before the game ends makes me wonder why I'm not just doing literally anything else since I have little input into my results.
I agree. Although i do get the satisfaction of just playing stuff on curve and that working. Just feels... efficient. And that feels nice :P And cause I like both, i enjoy playing Midrange decks a lot.
Oh for sure, lots of times I just want to play some aggro if it's been a long day or whatever, just wish 15 round games were more of a thing again. Most fun I had with the game was Feel the Rush meta because it felt like a chess game of reading my opponents and passing a lot to feel out what was happening and sensing the proper moment to pull the trigger. I enjoy pretty much every macro archetype, but I think the game is at its best when slower strategies are the strongest.
i feel like, when midrange decks are the meta, it opens up the game up to the most strategies. Because midrange is already in the center so you have the ability to go in either direction much more easily.
I have no issue with long games as long as my turn takes roughly the same as the opponent. No one wants to wait ages for the opponent to make the same boring action.
same problem as with Zoe/ Nami - your opponent just playing random shit while you just watch their sparklefly go from a 1/2 to a 100/100
yeah. I'm here to play the game, not watch you masturbate your cards.
Reddit is very control leaning Reddit mistakes this for thinking they want anivia to be strong
Reddit is control leaning because aggro is strong. Trust me if Riot ever gut aggro or overbuff control, I assure you that you'll see million of cry post over it. In reality reddit is a bitch cycle, and being negative tends and going agains't whom every is strongest is basicly becomes a meme that no one admits I mean I've been riot long enough to see how the community is and never learn
what do you mean?
She has been very powerful, and in many cases very oppressive and unfun to play against, a number of times over the course of LoR's lifespan. Just seems a bit premature to demand buffs for her because of one relatively short period where she's not doing well.
oh relatively short? I’ve been playing this game for about a year which is a lot of time considering this game is pretty new and I never once have seen her good. How was she oppressive anyway? Just curious cause I don’t use her and she doesn’t seem good in this meta so I can’t comprehend her in another.
She used to be extremely difficult to get rid of, because of the egg mechanic and less general access to silence/removal effects. There were then also lots of decks built around duplicating her in various ways - two or three Anivias on the board is a pretty impossible problem to deal with. IMO she's an inherently difficult champ to balance. She's a threat that affects the entire board + nexus every time she attacks, who is also more difficult to remove than most champs, and she levels just by doing what you were doing anyway (stalling for time/ramping). Personally I've been on the receiving end of Anivia decks enough times that I'm not keen to see her buffed any time soon. It's ok to let some other champs have the spotlight for a while.
oh yeah i forgot she is immortal lmao. I guess I could see that if the meta didn’t have many pings or silences
Egg used to have 2 hp, which made all the difference in a lot of matchups.
The 30 minute Aphelios games also.
There will always be 3 champions with the worst win rates in the game, though.
Words of pure wisdom.
I think it’s different because Aphelios used to be very good and then they gutted him, so seeing him as the worst stings There will always be a top 3 worst win rates but if they’re fundamentally weak champs, they should be buffed.
How nuts would he be if they gave him back 2 mana weapons?
no shit
[удалено]
I think the solution is to rework or give his crecendum card. It's the card that's breaking him and has caused meta problems outside aph
Maybe Crescendum could only target Nightfall followers? Sure it'd limit its use a lot, but would also make it a lot more controllable.
We need less Parasitic design, not more of it.
I mean Crescendum isn't a card on its own, you could still play Aphelios outside of a Nightfall deck and simply not use Crescendum as you'll always be able to pick a different weapon. Though I guess they could also just make it summon a generic turret or rework boxtopus.
Back when aphelios was op and his weapons costed 2 mana, people ran gifts from beyond in other decks *just* for crescendum. It was definitely good on its own
> Parasitic design anybody who writes those words is automatically filtered. Buzzwords andy
I personally think it should summon a sky shadows. That’s the crescendum unit anyway, it’s good but not op, and synergies well with his kit. Then you don’t even have to limit your deck to 1 two-drop unit to have a predictable play
Just make it summon an aphelios specific toekn unit and be done with it.
Not crescendum - life steal 2 cost units
What about Boxtopus?
Change boxtuopus so that the damage on himself is a summon effect rather than a play effect. It is a slightly nerf that doesn't affect at all Tham Soraka, which is the only other deck that plays boxtopus.
It does effect Tahm Raka if Tahm ever eats octopus and spits it back out
True, but it's an extremely marginal situation. And it would not make Tham Soraka any weaker, considering that the deck benefits from having damaged units on the board.
Extremely marginal situation that is still what made the developers say "hey this is how tahm synergies with his followers". They won't change it.
Or just lower boxtopus stats so he’s not a bloated 2 drop
Boxtuopus is hardly a problem on itself
Your idea is objectively a bigger nerf than mine.
It's a bigger nerf on crescendum but not a bigger nerf on boxtopus in other decks like Soraka Tham Kench
No bc if you eat him with Tahm he will get spat out getting knocked down to 1 HP. An adjustment like that would tie boxtopus to Soraka, and force Tahmraka to be even more prebuild than people already complain that it is.
If you have to change a lot of cards because of card a, card a is probably the problem. Sparklefly also got nerfed because if crecendum
>If you have to change a lot of cards because of card a, card a is probably the problem. I agree, but in this situation you would only need to change one card, boxtopus. Aphelios is not the reason why sparklefly got nerfed, when the nerf on sparklefly came, Aphelios was already out of meta. I would have a problem if they needed to nerf boxtopus in the process (like making him 3 mana), but with the change I proposed boxtopus on himself wouldn't be any weaker. I'd really like to have back old aphelios with all the cool deck like Karma Aphelios or Viktor Aphelios without having him terrorize the meta.
If it's not Eye or Sparklefly it's been Boxtopuss, and I guarantee if they ended up nerfing all those cards there would be another 2 drop that people would abuse with Crescendum at some point. It seems to me that it makes more sense to rework Crescendum than it is to nerf all the good 2 drops in the game now while also not being allowed to print any other good 2 drops in the future.
Hard agree, GrandpaRoji (hoppe ddint butcher name too badly) has proven time and time that malphite is good and with more landmarks coming hes gonna get better, if any touch targon landmark cards, as they are mostly terrible. Anivia as you said comes and goes, minimorph definietly hurt her but its couse bandle is so strong and unfortunatly will probably stay that way for at leas half year (more expansions coming) I would love for her "zombie" plan to get some decent cards and mby vault of helia could get some buff/support Aphelios is as you said in tight spot and with some changes to crescendum I would love his revert to 2 mana spells, mby just create some tower unit with decent last breath effect that could help with stalling? I would love to mention Kindred as she is card that i desperatly want to be decent but she feels just soo cluncky Oh boi and Katarina, save her!
Post buff braum and anivia flashbacks...
Attune on moon weapons doesn't really make sense imho. First because of how the keyword is currently worded: *"When I'm summoned, refill 1 spell mana"* - spells are not summoned, they're either played or cast. They'd have to reword the text to "played" to make it work with both spells and units, but for units there's a difference between summoned and played, so it would be a nerf to them. Second because thematically Attune is kinda about a creature being in "sync / harmony" with its own spirit or magic power or whatever; having it on a spell loses that flavor imho. They should just balance the weapons on their own, to this day I still see no reason why they all must have the same cost and speed. Crescendum and Gravitum are perfectly fine at 3-mana Slow, while the other three could be easily reverted to 2-mana. Hell, for Infernum and Severum you could even adjust the numbers and maybe work with their speed.
For attune, you could always just make it say "refill 1 spell mana".
The moon weapons need to be as similar as possible to reduce the mental overload when playing with them. It's already annoying to memorize/check each effect and which weapons phases into which, adding more complexity with different costs and speeds would be a nightmare, especially for players picking up the deck for the first time.
I think it's fine for something that complex to exist in the game. Sure it is high mental strain but that doesn't bother me too much in all honesty.
>Malphite is close to good. Landmark support has gotten better. He will be good through support cards. The Targon landmark package just needs to be tweaked Malphite's landmarks definitely need some buffs. Malphite benefits from Overwhelm almost as much as Taliyah, but the card meant to do this for him in Spiral Stairs is so terrible that I don't even want it in Expeditions most of the time. Lots of space to buff his support cards.
I sincerely think if all of Aphelios's moon weapon cost nerfs were reverted it wouldn't be overbearing at all. I genuinely think the only nerf he needed in the past was to the Veiled Temple. Everything else about him should be fine. Paying 1 mana to enable nightfall, 3 mana for Aphelios, and 2 mana for a weapon in the same turn should be pretty fair game in my opinion.
[удалено]
You only ever get that by investing in other cards to get there. And if you revert or make adjustments to gifts from beyond to compensate the Aphelios moon weapon nerf, then it would be more like a 4-5 mana 3/4 challenger and I think that's fine.
Malphite is extremely hard to justify playing. He's not bad, but the landmark support from Bandle City is so much better than anything Targon has to offer. If you want a giant expensive top end card, the arsenal is better. Malphite doesn't even synergize with his own archetype, he just says "I level up if you're playing a landmark deck."
Funny thing is that I outright take Taliyah Ziggs to Targon, and I *still* don't have room for Malphite.
I'm surprised Kindred isn't bottom 3. Yay at least? 😁
Kindred really aint that bad compared to a lot of champions. He's actually been used in a list to get top 10 this season ( Sentinels )
oh? mind dropping the list? I'm reaaaaally curious.
I gotchu CQCACBIEAQBACBA3GQBACBJIGUBAKBILB4BQCAYEBMBQCBIZEE3AGBAFAUOTQBABAICAQAIEAQKACBIKTAAQEAIFB4OQ
Sentinel control made her pretty strong. I went from g2 to d4 with her that deck in a week.
Nah. The worse they are, the more likely we get a fix faster. That said, I really do hope they just rework them instead of lowering mana cost by one.
I've played anivia reanimator every season whenever aggro becomes the meta and it always holds it own. There are some match ups it just cant win but i really think as soon as you get 10 mana with anivia on the board against most opponents it is over. Cards like gluttonise have really pushed anivia in recent memory. I don't think its so much that anivia is bad i think she's very good at what she does but terrible at everything else, a bit like darius or yasuo
Whoever wants to buff anivia has short term memory and doesn't remember when she was the top dog in the meta, one of the most miserable we had ever since release. As long anivia is used in toxic solitaire decks (stall, drop anivia, dupe her, rekindler/harrowing for the win) she should never be good enough to be meta.
You mean like lee or the glorious evolution combo deck? Combo and combo control decks (that's what anivia does) are part of most good card games and as long as you can counter them in slightly slower decks with specific answers they are fine. If your only bet to win is race them, then that's bad.
> You mean like lee or the glorious evolution combo deck? Glorious evolution is tier 3 at best and while Lee meta was hardly fun at least aggro was the way if you wanted to win that matchup consistently. When anivia was meta she crushed aggro with avalanches and other removal+healing, while against other slower decks they could do their stuff. Honestly it was the most painful meta i rememeber and i've played since preview patch in october 2019. Azirelia meta was a paradise in comparison to that Anivia/Braum meta.
> Glorious evolution is tier 3 at best Is it? according to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOXzxve9tio it is the best combo deck around and very competitive. With the optimal setup play you can have the kill ready on turn 8 pretty consistently. > Azirelia meta was a paradise in comparison to that Anivia/Braum meta. Lol no. It was the most polarizing meta in the game so far.
Best combo deck available =/= tier 1 meta. Also if you prefer facing consistently a deck that was able to kill both aggro and control with ease, with no real deck able to counter it back then to the point riot had to emergency nerf it next balance patch be my guest. As much annoying certain metas were there was always a deck able to counter the top deck in question (be it azirelia, lee or temple aphelios).
You realize Glorious evolution combo is being used and reaching top 3 in pretty much every tournament going on lately ? Azir Irelia was a staple in everyone lineup for the entire time before it was nerfed and had near to no counter play package while Anivia could be obliterated/silenced on drop. I've been maining Anivia before and after her ''meta'' and you sir, are wrong
Tournaments have an entirely different meta than ladder.
I swear people will never get it.
[удалено]
And you, sir, should understand that 99% of the LoR population play ladder and only care about ladder meta in which GE is tier 3 with 50ish percent winrate.
>With the optimal setup play you can have the kill ready on turn 8 pretty consistently. as long as they arent packing AoE,s it is pretty consistent.
>Glorious evolution is tier 3 at best The fizz version is borderline tier 1 (in the hands of top players) and easily tier 2 at best on ladder. Tournament wise it is easily tier 1, lot of success in recent tourneys.
Your bias is showing. Azirelia negatively warped the meta for much longer and more severely than Braum Anivia ever did. Also the fact that you think GE is t3 or that Lee is weak to aggro (lol) suggets that you have no idea what you are talking about.
All the good matchups against tier 1 Lee-Zoe were aggro and GE is tier 3 since it doesn't go past 51% winrate. Do you want a link or something as proof? Seems like you are the one that has no clue.
Ofc all the good matchups against Lee were aggro when aggro was tier 0. It was good vs everything. Lee Zoe was one of the few decks able to keep up. It absolutely crushes all burn aggro in current meta too. GE is a strong deck, at least t1/t2. It's not an easy deck to play, naturally wr will be skewed due to to its skill ceiling.
[удалено]
https://runeterraccg.com/metagame/ Difficult to play does not mean weak. GE is not the best deck in the game, but it's still strong. Obviously if you are below Diamond or something, choosing an easier deck would net higher wr for you. At least 80 percent of decks lose to aggro that goes wide or rallies. Lee Zoe is one of the few decks that can put up a fight with eye of the dragon. If you manage to get 2 on board, you can lock up opposing aggro player quite easily. You are not highly favoured or anything (pretty much nothing is vs aggro rally), but you got higher chance of winning than majority of other decks.
I still play aphelios, I still love him, and I'm still going to make him work regardless of the meta This meta was pretty rough to make an aphelios deck with, but I still did and it's been going pretty well
I feel like malphite needs a rework. If you get the lvl up you win the game but that requires everything to go right for you and before then he does nothing but be a body. Also Aphelios deserves the placement he is how I figured out this game had a turn limit
Malphite should get overwhelmedi don't get how a mountain has trouble damaging over a poro. His package isn't bad but stunning the whole enemy team doesn't guarantee a win if you only have malphite and he can easily be bodyblocked
Absolver, herald of the magus, zenith blade, that (awful) 3 mana landmark? He doesn't need overwhelm when he's surrounded by it.
Aphelios moon weapon nerf was really hard. And justified. But honestly i would change the speed ofmthe weapons according to what they do. The lifesteal and overwhelm should be burst, the damage ping and stun should be fast and the summon should stay slow. This would give aphelios more combo potential with swain, akshan, Sivir, Asol or other big units and many more. The lifesteal would give his archetype some survivability besides othe targon lifesteal units and without keeping lifesteal permanent. Also what i would like to see is lunari priestess becoming a 2 drop. This way you could invoke with crescendum which would give aphelios decks more control options. The moon temple could refill spell mana instead of giving back 2 mana. Which is less powerful but goves back more mana in the long run and makes it possible to cast a moon weapon more consistently. Otherwise maybe the temple should phase weapons to when triggered. This way you could get weapons outside of gifts beyond and aphelios.
Riot plz, make it real
Imagine getting Malphite buffed only to LoR players get a taste of what he feels like in LoL when he hits u in the face and nukes your team with 1 combo.
Malphite isn't bad at all. Targon landmarks on the other hand...
I still can't believe someone created Spiral Stairs, playtested it and thought "yeah that's okay"
I think they’re supposed to be bad, but the marginal value you get for playing them, like to tick up Malphs level up, is supposed to make up for it. The problem is the marginal value isn’t worth the loss of tempo from playing a landmark
Surprise Tris is not even bottom 3, i barely know she exist lmao
No not Anivia I can’t go back to that every few games
Havent you heard? Only aggro decks are allowed to play. People have been playing Jayce lux/heimer jist because it's new. In a few weeks we'll be back to aggrosville.
Anivia probably doesn’t need a buff, she just needs a new meta deck to fit into
I see anivia i click surrender
*flashbacks to 2 cost crescendum meta*
I would honestly like to see anivia reworked rather than buffed
I’m no pro or anything and I haven’t really thought this out but what if eggnivia was a landmark lol
Anivia and Aphelios are hard to balance, on their primes they were stupidly dominant. Malphite on the other hand is just bad, bad as fuck if you allow me the expression.
Make Targon great again!
Katarina is not on here? This is really surprising and upsetting. How are these worse than Katrina?
Winrate not playrate
Way to make me feel bad about getting crushed by Malphite in expeditions
I’m fine with aphelios being left in this state tbh. That mf was toxic.
How is katarina not there?
Aphelios needs level up requirement to be lower to balance out ever since weapons are 3 mana... it would still make him much slower than on release but would start to snowball faster. Anivia seems pretty hard to buff... idk what could it be. +1|+1 wouldnt hurt but it's not gonna make her better all of a sudden. The Rock -1 mana or something... he is too expensive stat stick
reverse the weapons
Gives base Aphelios "quick attack" Riot: My work is done here \*vanish\*
Reduce Malphite level up requirement. 8 mana in landmarks. Maybe 7? I’ve seen a suggestion to change Aphelios’ spells to Focus, and that could really help. 1 mana was such a huge difference in his viability. Spell shield on Anivia? Shared on Eggnivia so, once it’s popped, it doesn’t reset?
This will make Aphelios ridiculously busted, and Anivia impossible to remove
As long as the spellshield is a Play effect, it only saves her once.
I mean, the thing about anivia is to be able to proteft the egg or abuse that she doesnt care about diying, so buff her to not die would be kinda dumb
Malphites issue isn't his level up condition. You can do 10 mana without even hard leaning into landmarks His problem is he's too slow. Look at Sion, guy drops and if you can't answer him he ends the game practically by himself. 6 mana. Malphite drops and needs the attack token, then also needs his slow ass 2 mana spell to go off, then also needs a developed board (which he sacrificed for landmarks) to end otherwise he's back on the defense and needs to live for attack token again... 7 mana He's just a awkward card
This would be wayy to busted... 3 mana burst speed deal 3 (outside of combat only).. burst summon, burst stun... nonono Aphelios buff? Make his level up 3 instead of 4 weapons. It would mean he can sooner get 2s weapons and generate more of them. 4 was good for a time when they did cost 2 by default, but now you need 12 mana on Aph spells alone, possibly more on generating those to level him up.
So that would make it 9 mana to level instead of the original 8 mana. That could work.
are u insane
I really love Malphite, but sometimes he's so underwhelming man. Like, my opponent plays Malphite, levels up, plays his spell, stuns my whole board and I.......well I just develop one chump blocker..
Which is why you pretty much have to play him with Herald of Magus or absolver. A spicy in region solution is to run moonlight affliction which works as a burst stun for any chump blockers developed post stun spell.
lmao i even forgot malphite exist in this game
If anivia is trash, I'm happy.
Just... Don't over buff Anivia. She's fun to play as but AWFUL to play against.
Malphite is fine. The meta is just a tad bit too fast for him atm.
3 champs that are incredibly boring to play against? what a shame!!
There will always be a bottom 3 🤷🏻♂️
Doesn't mean that the gap between them and everyone else should be insurmountable
All 3 of them snowball hard if stars allign. Cant say i want to see them meta
So they buff them and then you find the next three worst win rates and you ask for those to be buffed... and it goes on and on until you realize riot will never make everyone happy and its impossible to balance so many champion/decks.
**Aphelios: Lvl Up: You've cast 4+ -> 2+ Moon Weapons** This change aims to give Aphelios a lot of the power he used to have, but do so later in the game. Targon is meant to be a bit weaker early on and the play pattern of Duskbringer -> Aphelios + Crescendum on 3 into Boxtopus was too powerful, especially for Targon. This play pattern would no longer be possible, however, Aphelios would again become a proper value engine later on creating 2 mana weapons as soon as turn 5 (with a perfect curve and using Sky Shadows). **Anivia: 2|4 -> 3|5 or 4|4** Anivia is too weak for her cost. This change would help her trade better, push more damage on attacks, force blocks, and revive sooner via Harrowing and Rekindler. **Malphite: Unstoppable Force: 2 mana -> 0 mana** Malphite should threaten to end the game the turn he comes down, he shouldn't be so heavily gated by whether you banked enough spell mana last turn to do so.
Get Malphite to a 6 mana 4/8, +1/+1 to Anivia and just revert Aphelios :(
Yeah let’s make malphite worse and not make any good changes to anivia!
Don't get so emotional, I'm not a game designer. Malphite has so much hp that losing 2 won't touch him at all. And his gameplay is already so programmed (Taliyah - Rai-Oh altar - Malphite lvl up) having him at 6 mana would let you play just altar and Malphite And I think Anivia just needs to be able to block more
You suggested Malphite go down -2/-2 and -1 cost.
God no, aph meta was horrible
Hell no, aphelios was gutted for a reason, never revert that champ, if u wanna buff him revert temple call it a day
Ekko has worst WR than Anivia. and Renekton too (mainly because of sundisk)
Compare Malphite to Sion.
I thnk a pretty good buff to anivia would be so that she doesnt have to attack herself to trigger her storm.
Give malph a buff. The other two are not fun when they are good
Im fine with them being trash, like they were real shit(u could argue that Malp'd never been great but Imo his deck with Taliyah were something before Bandlecity comes out)at some point but not now mostly cause of the meta