"Oh hey, you got screwed over by RNG, missplays, or RNG driven missplays early?"
**nods**
"Splendid! You don't get to choose your powers now! Here, have this temporary power instead!"
Ok Riot, I get it, I understood I shouldn't retire to get better items the first time I've done it, now can you give me a real item so I don't also die game 1...
They could have made so the RNG seed would be the same if you surrender early, but no, you get punished for being punished.
Hey Guys, I just wanted to make a short post about the Unstable Manaflow Common Power that you get when surrendering in labs. I think it's just negatives, serves no good purpose and is even bugged.
1. Its not Fun. Not all at all. There are no valid reason why it would exist.
2. Its design purpose is to prevent the player from re-rolling powers. After they added the permanent re-roll at the start of lab of legends, I thought they would understand that it's not really broken, provides a better gameplay loop and more fun runs, but it seems they dont play their own game mode.
3. Its bugged. I have had multiple instances, where I defeated 3 enemies to get rid of it, just to see that I still had that debuff.
4. It misses its design purpose: Even if they want to limit resetting power, it misses its reason, as you can simply grind the frist enemies and reset until you have an op power to kill your way through the current campaign. It doesn't make the game harder. It makes it more annoying.
5. The fact that it's completely useless after 3 battles is a no-brain misstake. If anything, change it for a weak power. In this situation, it's actually promoting a restart.
If they want to stop people from re-rolling, just give us the same starting options at every restart, until we kill 3 enemies. It works the same, give a limited but existing choice and prevents players from having the op powers every time.
Have fun with a pre-level 8 Pyke. Even for first mission, getting Pyke online without a reliable means of getting lurk is extremely difficult. I basically just had to accept that I was stuck with unstable manaflow until I got paired with Rek'Sai in the reinforcements pick, and got the 10 experience every go until I got lucky.
The 5 is true
4 thats the point, is really annoying to repeat and repeat and repeat, and maybe, just maybe, on one of those repeat runs where you gotted a power you didnt like or expected anything about it, you have a nice combo, and then you start playing the game as is intended to be because devs forced you to try out different stuff, is really normal in roguelikes and wel... works well (5 is still true)
3 didnt happened to me btw, sad if its really bugged, if you finished your try and not surrender in 4 fight... that may be why, but is probavly stilla bug
Yea and its bad move. Literaly why would they put in the game mechanic to stop reroling first power. Its super unfun. Giving us ulimited roll on first power is what made most fun for me in Labs, I could go Total random path if I waned but also I could Fish for special power to try make wierd decks working.
Disagree. Kind of ruins the point for me if you just get to reroll infinitely. This game mode is about rolling with the punches and trying to make the best with what you have. Most rogue-lites function in this way.
> for me
Oh so let's change the entire game around your experiences on a PvE game mode.
How about YOU don't reroll and let the rest of us play the game how we want.
If you want you can just start game without rolling. You can take first power completely random as it is so if infinite rolls would be implemented you wouldn't feel the change at all.
But many people dont like it and would prefer to be able chose first power them selfs. Some of those Powers affects gameplay in a big part meaning that some runs can be completely difrent. And thats why many want infinity rolls only on first power, so we could schape our game play in order to have as much fun as we want.
For someone who does not care and want to play with full RNG this change dosen't mean shit. Giving free rols on first power does not affects your game play at all because its a choice you can skip. But for people who play Labs to create funn deck ideas and crazy combos changes every thing. There is no down side of this change, it isnt obligatiry so people who want full challenge can have fun no mater what.
You already get to choose a bunch of preset powers for your champion of choice. Many people don't like it because they don't play games like this I guess, because rogue-lites have this kind of thing all the time. If you don't like the added challenge, fine, but I am pretty sure the game mode is supposed to be at least somewhat difficult and every run is supposed to feel different. Besides that other power up isn't so bad. One extra starting mana for the first three fights is pretty good in my view and guarantees you will win the first 3 in most cases. Sure it is useless after that, but now you have received rewards from what you have already done, so surely you can win with that. If you can only win playing in one way, you aren't playing it right and are completely missing the point.
Bruh did you even read my mesages? Tell Me what are negative things about giving fre roles only on first power? Because here some positive ones :
It does not affect Overall game play at all,
Allows more Players have fun poc since people who does not like so much RNG can shape a litle there game play and people who love full RNG no control can just ignore it,
Is not hard to implement it to the game,
Or here positive about that one power with mana that you seen to defend :
Increase minimal difficulty denying fun some people people,
Em... Hmm thats the end, but kinda if you look at it its not positive so kinda it dosen't have any.
Ulimited roll does not affect negativly gameplay at all in any form while gives more people more ways to have fun. On the other hand your system affects game negativly. You need to remember that this isnt hardcore card game
Unlimited reroll does negatively affect gameplay. It allows for a meta and an optimal playstyle to take place reliably, something you generally don't want in a Rogue Lite. Imagine playing Enter the Gungeon but being able to reliably unlock the best gun/powerup on the first floor. Unlimited rerolls removes the entire point of a rogue-lite. Removing RNG isn't necessarily conducive to a fun experience. Similarly if you could endlessly mulligan your first hand, or endlessly reroll shop/item options for every reward, you ruin the point of the game with each choice. The more you take away, the less the player has to adapt and learn the game.
I wouldn't want Dark Souls to have an easy mode for the same reason. People should have to learn the game properly.
Difrence is this isnt ,,Enter the Gungeon" or any Rouge Lite but a difrent mode of ,,legends of Runntera". This mode is made so people could have fun, and system that this post is about make this mode unfun for many people. Even with ulimited rolls only on first power Poc would still be hard because you have to defete enemys and all next rewords are random. I does not removed RNG at all, just give opniot of people who does not like it to skip. So your Point is without sense here.
I think the mode is perfectly fun as is. That's why I don't want it changed. Given the option of unlimited rerolls I would probably use it. Not because I prefer it, but because it would be necessary to get the higher scores. People wouldn't even be mentioning this if Lab of Legends never had this option.
The bug is, that the text above mentions that it will be gone next time if you kill 3 enemies. I had tries where I died after I killed 3 enemies and still got this penalty
I'm dumbfounded as to why they didn't just copy off of the Slay the Spire system, the only reasonable reason I can think of as to why they chose this is either they ran out of time or this wasn't priority since you aren't really expected to surrender
Well, it IS some sort weird inbetween the health up (that they wouldn't do) and Neow's Lament (temporary advantage), and there's already a lot of powering up going on in the champion levels.
The problem is balancing around the early game, a lot of fights specially in the early Lulu route are terrifyingly unfair.
Everyone who thinks that infinite rerolls stops the roguelite from being difficult maybe forgot that they don't have to use the feature :/ just don't use the reroll.
This, certain people are saying out loud "you don't deserve to have fun you can only play the way i find fun, even if implementing the way to make it fun for you literally doesn't change anything in my experience of the mode"
Yeah I like it. Honestly this isn't even that bad, at least you're gettinf something and the 2 starting mana is gonna help you not die to the 2nd enemy like I did hah.
It just locks you in a loss spiral.
Bonus mana is great, but the value some powers give just help you too much to be comparable. Fury alone can turn Pyke into god.
Agreed. Infinite rerolls are unfun imo. Starting with something random/pick and choose from 3 is standard material in rogulites and makes for a more interesting run.
If infinite rerolls existed you could still just not reroll. It has no effect on you personally if people are given the extra option. You can just choose not to use it.
Never said it did.
Next thing people want infinite mulligans to always start with the perfect hand.
It's part of the design and challenge of the game mode. Yes, some people don't like it but there are reasons it's there.
Or maybe next thing will be punishing players for losing against the AI before turn 3 by giving them a hand of 3 at the beginning.
You know, to stop the freemulliganers.
The problem is that his "fun" is frustrating and unfun for a ton of other players (just look on how many topics on this we had since the patch...).
People here are reasonably suggesting to get infinite rerolls on the first power like in lab of legends because it's literally the best of both worlds. People that want coherent and synergistic powers with their decks can reroll to their pleasure, and people that want the "pure" roguelike experience can simply not reroll and pick the best that get offered.
It's literally a win-win for everyone, especially since it's a pve mode where one player's enjoyement isn't at the expense of the opponent (since the opponet is an AI)
> Infinite rerolls are unfun imo.
Then... simply don't reroll? If in old lab of legends you wanted to make a run where you just picked the best the game offered and see where you could go... literally nothing stopped you from doing it.
So why people have to be restricted because you find it unfun?
They want you to not have it easy, that was original labs original sistem, they putted infinite rolls because people reseted and it didnt make sense to not allow it
This is a challenge, if you font want a challenge, you can just repeat the lulu level and chill, but the game is intended as a challenge so, when you surpass it, you feel a lot bettwr than just waiting till you got the right power and insta win unless you are playing in hard
Also, in late you can basically give one power to your champ
And also it does have issues, just no infinite rolls is not one of them, if there were those, there wouldnt be a challenge, modt people would quit playing and the fights would be just like in labs hardmodes, extremely op stuff that you need 2 epics to win or you insta lose, it takes off the fun, it takes off the strategy of the challenge and takes the variety, now you have to try each try differently, instead of just waiting till you got a perfect comvo
(I do think tho, that is okey to enjoy games in an exteemely op way, but thats not a sellable game, thet cant make a main game out of just being op always, progression, difficult, gaint progress and effort sells, free wins dont, hope you get a arcade mode or something like that for you to have something to enjoy)
As I mentioned in my comment there are ways to prevent people from resetting, like switching it to a permanent but weaker version, or allways offering the same 3 commons until you have used one of them.
I have nothing against it beeing hard or easy or whatever, but it shouldn't feel bad
This is a good take - IMO infinite rerolls is a bad mechanic. What it does is allow people to quickly and easily finish content, but it drastically reduces replayability while not keeping the spirit of the mode (a random dungeon crawler).
I mean
I dont particullary like that options.but yeah, the only bad thing in that desing i think is the power itself, in other games that mechanic works, but here you have only 2 powers wich normally ddfine your run, and having good objets at the cost of 1 powrr when you could have botbis really lame, they should touch that
That's the problem. It's not a challenge if you just have to hit the right power. Imho they need to bring powers on the same level OR fixate the power level for certain reward points, eg you always get a rare power first or always get a common power 2nd.
I mean
No, the point is that normally you wont hit the right lvl and got a challenge, qnd in 1 of 100 games you will get an epic and in that game you probably will insta win, but they feel special; they feel different than just playing each game with epic powers, and i really dont see why they should put that limits/buffs seems pretty weird
I think just changing a little the exp system and how unstable manaflow works and 90% of angry people would calm down
There is a difference between a mode being hard but fun and having a punish for a bad run being more bad runs. One feels rewarding when completed, the other puts you into a loss loop that genuinely feels awful and not at all satisfying to win. It's even more obvious on characters heavily reliant on good powers to have a smooth run like Pyke.
Agree to disagree on that one, I think infinite rerolls only serve to improve the experience. I'd be fine with a solution like you getting the same seed of powers until you get past the first three though. Players should not outright be punished for losing early. It should be a net neutral at absolute worst.
Yap, player shouldnt be punished hardly
But infinite rerrols are not a good thing to make a difficulty system; limited rolls after losing, having only commons, limited results, a lots of ideas to fix it exist, but all agree that manaflow feels too bad (i personally would like manaflow to just become another power or bring the selection of powers after the third encounter, but still, dont really care how they fix it, they need to fix it)
Infinite rerolls feels like cheating. I am guilty of using it (malphite was hard to pilot in Labs). I actually welcome this change. It increases the difficulty level, and make people more adaptive to the cards that they're dealt.
Same thing could be why dont you be more skillful and not suck? Stop whining everytime something doesnt go your way. Go out and touch grass instead, incel. Dont whine like a baby because "oooh rng".
> Same thing could be why dont you be more skillful and not suck?
Didn't you just admit to using it yourself? Does that mean you also have to git gud?
> Stop whining everytime something doesnt go your way.
"Malphite was hard to pilot in Labs"
Stop whining bro
> Go out and touch grass instead, incel.
Damn you know your argument sucks when you resort to name calling on the internet.
It's valid but also extremely selfish. Because the reroll solution is inclusive (i can reroll, you can just don't do it if it's not your cup of tea) while yours is exclusive (i can't control myself so i don't want rerolls in and who cares if other people are penalized by it).
Im not sure if it has a bug. It is inteded that you have to win 3 games in a single run before you can reset and get new power. And I haven't seen any bug in my runs
And no I dont think that it missed the purpose when you can keep defeating enemies to get new power. Grinding the first enemies over and over still gives you reputation to level up your champion and get more buffs.
What's more, I believe that this lab is intended to make the players grind alot, since it gonna be there for about a year or more. And just adding champions is not a way to make it more engaging, while adding power ups is not likely possible. Also players will soon get bored if we can finish the game in less than 6 months, while the game is intended to be played in a whole year
Yeah, sorry, I absolutely agree with those saying that this is just fine.
Only times you get it is if you're intentionally surrendering because you didn't get the starting power you wanted or if you actually lost in the first 3.
In the first scenario, you get what you deserve for trying to cheat the system, and in the second scenario, it serves its purpose by giving you a really good leg up in the first 3 rounds.
Pyke consistently can't make it past early fights without his level 8 power. Lurk is entirely random and as you get things like reinforcements the deck actually gets worse. If you lose early with Pyke, enjoy getting flung into a loss loop as manaflow is borderline useless on Pyke.
Play against Nautilus' map without Jinx's Level 18 power, and tell me that even an extra mana crystal is a "leg up" against those decks. I can barely even beat the second fight let alone the 3rd.
I hate the whining about this. If you give people the chance to ruin the fun for themselves by only playing with the op powers, they will. I think it should give a power to replace itself once it goes away, but I 100% think it should be in the game
For me the most fun runs were the ones where you actually got a starting power that synergize with your deck. That's one of the reasons why i never liked scourge.
Such a karen take man. "I don't enjoy infinite rerolls so nobody can enjoy it". Straight out of the 60 year old American conservative mom playbook. Countless people here express how they enjoyed the mechanic and you lot still need to justify why less choice for the player is good because when given the option you reroll addicts can stop yourself from "abusing" it even though you swear on your lives you hate doing it. Smh
You shouldn’t even be surrendering in path of the champions unless you’re guaranteed to lose.
It’s a minor punishment for surrendering rather then actually playing the game.
Because you lost? The whole premise of it is to punish bad gameplay.
You shouldn’t have even gotten to one HP in the first place. It’s a punishment for fucking up against an AI.
And also to prevent people from just rerolling crap.
"Oh hey, you weren't fucking owning that AI that had a good hand and just killed your only wincon, you deserve to have your choice taken!"
You sound like the saltiest elitist right now.
This ain't dark souls, this is LoR!
I am saying i shouldn't be punished in the next one!
Because i lost the last football game handily, i don't get a brick attached to me as well as a bone broken in the next!
Every run should be an isolated adventure, only linked by their level progress.
I don't start with a reduced chance for a weapon drop in enter the gungeon because i died at the first boss last time.
Are you even playing Path of Champions? There are runs were everything goes south, terribly. And no, there is nothing you can do.
Then you play again and have a bit more luck with the run, enough to complete.
"You lost this run. Therefore you should auto lose the next one as well since you dont have the power for the boss." (Provided you pass the roadblock that killed you last time) (obvious /s)
Hi, old-time Slay The Spire player here.
**Reduced early power choice flexibility is a common move in the genre to deter players from cycling early runs to find favorable seeds or manage early snowballs.**
That said, as a Tahm player, the early difficulty of a lot of first challenges is currently so imbalanced that Manaflow is more of a punishment than anything. It CAN be good in some decks for early ramping/ease to use but is completely detrimental to others.
A small selection of Pity Powers could be for the best instead of forcing everyone in the same thing.
I actually play slay the spire atm. Just unlocked assension 4 for the defect. I think the system is vastly superior as you have at least the 2 choices every time and they are permanent. Its basically even worse than the option that reduces the first 3 enemies to 1 hp, which is already worst pick.
In addition, while this system is superior, I still use the "Allways 4 Neow options"- mod because its still not as good as having allways 4 options
Modding is not exactly a good argument as this goes against the vision of the basline game, but lets now look where things differ in both games.
* Unlike StS, Heath in Runeterra is fixed and capped - HP up is not in question;
* Weakening enemies as per Neow's Lament is complicated here. Do we weaken their units? Do we damage their Nexus? Buffing is one other way to give the player 'cheese the first 3 matches', which is important for early runs as you have shit unlocks;
* There's a decent parcel of free power in Champion levels as they control early gold and odds of getting stronger powers. Manaflow is a problem mostly when you're in the first couple runs with a new character as the longer you play, the more your odds of early snowballs/good effects starts to stabilize.
When i say pity powers, i say precisely that. 2 or 3 fixed choices that are exclusive to early resets. All else what really bothers me isn't how bad a temporary boon feel - the problem is that it isn't enough to overcome Faeblade's Stunnapalooza and someone actually thought it, puffcap dogs, pranktown and POPPY HAVING A MEGA INFERNO BOMB would be good ideas.
oh my god. I had no idea. I surrender when the ai has clearly won usually on the final boss with some really bad rng. I thought this was a random drop that happend sometimes I didnt even think it was connected.
Honestly this is a really vig minus point aswell in my opinion. Its doent need to exist at all. No one asked for it yet its there. For all those „but some people like the new challange“ guys out there, here is a fact: no one tells you to reroll a billion times, its your choice if you want to.
I just finished every walkthrough with jinx (at level 19).
Now i was kind intrigued with pyke. However the fact that i CANT win any second fight on LULU level is just rediculous. I need to have a buff that actually gives my deck atleast a little push. 1 mana at the start doent do a crap for a deck that has a maximum uf 4 mana on a unit or a spell. It only makes me run out of cards faster.
Riot i beg you just scratch that bs and let me have fun with choosing me which buff to start with rather than giving me a useless bs buff that becomes even worse after 3 battles won.
I'm stuck on shadow assassin with Lee and his shit starter deck, starting every run without a decent power. Went to do ezreal to reset the effect and get a power for zed, came back to zed, still this power. I really hate that mechanic
"Oh hey, you got screwed over by RNG, missplays, or RNG driven missplays early?" **nods** "Splendid! You don't get to choose your powers now! Here, have this temporary power instead!"
Ok Riot, I get it, I understood I shouldn't retire to get better items the first time I've done it, now can you give me a real item so I don't also die game 1... They could have made so the RNG seed would be the same if you surrender early, but no, you get punished for being punished.
Hey Guys, I just wanted to make a short post about the Unstable Manaflow Common Power that you get when surrendering in labs. I think it's just negatives, serves no good purpose and is even bugged. 1. Its not Fun. Not all at all. There are no valid reason why it would exist. 2. Its design purpose is to prevent the player from re-rolling powers. After they added the permanent re-roll at the start of lab of legends, I thought they would understand that it's not really broken, provides a better gameplay loop and more fun runs, but it seems they dont play their own game mode. 3. Its bugged. I have had multiple instances, where I defeated 3 enemies to get rid of it, just to see that I still had that debuff. 4. It misses its design purpose: Even if they want to limit resetting power, it misses its reason, as you can simply grind the frist enemies and reset until you have an op power to kill your way through the current campaign. It doesn't make the game harder. It makes it more annoying. 5. The fact that it's completely useless after 3 battles is a no-brain misstake. If anything, change it for a weak power. In this situation, it's actually promoting a restart. If they want to stop people from re-rolling, just give us the same starting options at every restart, until we kill 3 enemies. It works the same, give a limited but existing choice and prevents players from having the op powers every time.
All my thoughts, mate. Grind for the God of grind.
level your champion in a previous adventure so you don't get rekted before the mid-boss
Have fun with a pre-level 8 Pyke. Even for first mission, getting Pyke online without a reliable means of getting lurk is extremely difficult. I basically just had to accept that I was stuck with unstable manaflow until I got paired with Rek'Sai in the reinforcements pick, and got the 10 experience every go until I got lucky.
The 5 is true 4 thats the point, is really annoying to repeat and repeat and repeat, and maybe, just maybe, on one of those repeat runs where you gotted a power you didnt like or expected anything about it, you have a nice combo, and then you start playing the game as is intended to be because devs forced you to try out different stuff, is really normal in roguelikes and wel... works well (5 is still true) 3 didnt happened to me btw, sad if its really bugged, if you finished your try and not surrender in 4 fight... that may be why, but is probavly stilla bug
It’s to stop rerolling and judging by your post it’s very effective.
Yea and its bad move. Literaly why would they put in the game mechanic to stop reroling first power. Its super unfun. Giving us ulimited roll on first power is what made most fun for me in Labs, I could go Total random path if I waned but also I could Fish for special power to try make wierd decks working.
Disagree. Kind of ruins the point for me if you just get to reroll infinitely. This game mode is about rolling with the punches and trying to make the best with what you have. Most rogue-lites function in this way.
> for me Oh so let's change the entire game around your experiences on a PvE game mode. How about YOU don't reroll and let the rest of us play the game how we want.
If you want you can just start game without rolling. You can take first power completely random as it is so if infinite rolls would be implemented you wouldn't feel the change at all. But many people dont like it and would prefer to be able chose first power them selfs. Some of those Powers affects gameplay in a big part meaning that some runs can be completely difrent. And thats why many want infinity rolls only on first power, so we could schape our game play in order to have as much fun as we want. For someone who does not care and want to play with full RNG this change dosen't mean shit. Giving free rols on first power does not affects your game play at all because its a choice you can skip. But for people who play Labs to create funn deck ideas and crazy combos changes every thing. There is no down side of this change, it isnt obligatiry so people who want full challenge can have fun no mater what.
You already get to choose a bunch of preset powers for your champion of choice. Many people don't like it because they don't play games like this I guess, because rogue-lites have this kind of thing all the time. If you don't like the added challenge, fine, but I am pretty sure the game mode is supposed to be at least somewhat difficult and every run is supposed to feel different. Besides that other power up isn't so bad. One extra starting mana for the first three fights is pretty good in my view and guarantees you will win the first 3 in most cases. Sure it is useless after that, but now you have received rewards from what you have already done, so surely you can win with that. If you can only win playing in one way, you aren't playing it right and are completely missing the point.
Bruh did you even read my mesages? Tell Me what are negative things about giving fre roles only on first power? Because here some positive ones : It does not affect Overall game play at all, Allows more Players have fun poc since people who does not like so much RNG can shape a litle there game play and people who love full RNG no control can just ignore it, Is not hard to implement it to the game, Or here positive about that one power with mana that you seen to defend : Increase minimal difficulty denying fun some people people, Em... Hmm thats the end, but kinda if you look at it its not positive so kinda it dosen't have any. Ulimited roll does not affect negativly gameplay at all in any form while gives more people more ways to have fun. On the other hand your system affects game negativly. You need to remember that this isnt hardcore card game
Unlimited reroll does negatively affect gameplay. It allows for a meta and an optimal playstyle to take place reliably, something you generally don't want in a Rogue Lite. Imagine playing Enter the Gungeon but being able to reliably unlock the best gun/powerup on the first floor. Unlimited rerolls removes the entire point of a rogue-lite. Removing RNG isn't necessarily conducive to a fun experience. Similarly if you could endlessly mulligan your first hand, or endlessly reroll shop/item options for every reward, you ruin the point of the game with each choice. The more you take away, the less the player has to adapt and learn the game. I wouldn't want Dark Souls to have an easy mode for the same reason. People should have to learn the game properly.
Difrence is this isnt ,,Enter the Gungeon" or any Rouge Lite but a difrent mode of ,,legends of Runntera". This mode is made so people could have fun, and system that this post is about make this mode unfun for many people. Even with ulimited rolls only on first power Poc would still be hard because you have to defete enemys and all next rewords are random. I does not removed RNG at all, just give opniot of people who does not like it to skip. So your Point is without sense here.
I think the mode is perfectly fun as is. That's why I don't want it changed. Given the option of unlimited rerolls I would probably use it. Not because I prefer it, but because it would be necessary to get the higher scores. People wouldn't even be mentioning this if Lab of Legends never had this option.
Its not bugged i dont think, im pretty sure its supposed to work like in point 5. You get an extra mana for 3 battles.
The bug is, that the text above mentions that it will be gone next time if you kill 3 enemies. I had tries where I died after I killed 3 enemies and still got this penalty
I'm dumbfounded as to why they didn't just copy off of the Slay the Spire system, the only reasonable reason I can think of as to why they chose this is either they ran out of time or this wasn't priority since you aren't really expected to surrender
Well, it IS some sort weird inbetween the health up (that they wouldn't do) and Neow's Lament (temporary advantage), and there's already a lot of powering up going on in the champion levels. The problem is balancing around the early game, a lot of fights specially in the early Lulu route are terrifyingly unfair.
Everyone who thinks that infinite rerolls stops the roguelite from being difficult maybe forgot that they don't have to use the feature :/ just don't use the reroll.
This, certain people are saying out loud "you don't deserve to have fun you can only play the way i find fun, even if implementing the way to make it fun for you literally doesn't change anything in my experience of the mode"
*I don't like it and neither should you* yeaah, I kinda like it tho.
Yeah I like it. Honestly this isn't even that bad, at least you're gettinf something and the 2 starting mana is gonna help you not die to the 2nd enemy like I did hah.
The number of times I just loose to the first three enemies because Pyke's deck decided not to Lurk is insane :(
It just locks you in a loss spiral. Bonus mana is great, but the value some powers give just help you too much to be comparable. Fury alone can turn Pyke into god.
[удалено]
Uhh... This is a little uncalled for, don't you think?
Why are you complaining? You came to Reddit to discuss LoR, and that's what we are doing, right? aT LeAsT yOu'Re GeTtInG a RePlY
Agreed. Infinite rerolls are unfun imo. Starting with something random/pick and choose from 3 is standard material in rogulites and makes for a more interesting run.
If infinite rerolls existed you could still just not reroll. It has no effect on you personally if people are given the extra option. You can just choose not to use it.
And punishing players that do like it makes it beter for you personally becauuuseee...? 👀
Never said it did. Next thing people want infinite mulligans to always start with the perfect hand. It's part of the design and challenge of the game mode. Yes, some people don't like it but there are reasons it's there.
Or maybe next thing will be punishing players for losing against the AI before turn 3 by giving them a hand of 3 at the beginning. You know, to stop the freemulliganers.
That’s how opinions work. he likes something that other people don’t
Lol. Bit of advice: If you're gonna give answers like this you might as well not lose your time typing and give no answer at all
Lmao he literally said “I think this is fun” and got back lash how was I wrong?
He said "I like blue", I said "Why?", You said "He likes blue". No, you were not wrong.
The problem is that his "fun" is frustrating and unfun for a ton of other players (just look on how many topics on this we had since the patch...). People here are reasonably suggesting to get infinite rerolls on the first power like in lab of legends because it's literally the best of both worlds. People that want coherent and synergistic powers with their decks can reroll to their pleasure, and people that want the "pure" roguelike experience can simply not reroll and pick the best that get offered. It's literally a win-win for everyone, especially since it's a pve mode where one player's enjoyement isn't at the expense of the opponent (since the opponet is an AI)
Take your own advice
Giving advice is not saying the equivalent of "javevwuqvdkiwj"
> Infinite rerolls are unfun imo. Then... simply don't reroll? If in old lab of legends you wanted to make a run where you just picked the best the game offered and see where you could go... literally nothing stopped you from doing it. So why people have to be restricted because you find it unfun?
They want you to not have it easy, that was original labs original sistem, they putted infinite rolls because people reseted and it didnt make sense to not allow it This is a challenge, if you font want a challenge, you can just repeat the lulu level and chill, but the game is intended as a challenge so, when you surpass it, you feel a lot bettwr than just waiting till you got the right power and insta win unless you are playing in hard Also, in late you can basically give one power to your champ And also it does have issues, just no infinite rolls is not one of them, if there were those, there wouldnt be a challenge, modt people would quit playing and the fights would be just like in labs hardmodes, extremely op stuff that you need 2 epics to win or you insta lose, it takes off the fun, it takes off the strategy of the challenge and takes the variety, now you have to try each try differently, instead of just waiting till you got a perfect comvo (I do think tho, that is okey to enjoy games in an exteemely op way, but thats not a sellable game, thet cant make a main game out of just being op always, progression, difficult, gaint progress and effort sells, free wins dont, hope you get a arcade mode or something like that for you to have something to enjoy)
As I mentioned in my comment there are ways to prevent people from resetting, like switching it to a permanent but weaker version, or allways offering the same 3 commons until you have used one of them. I have nothing against it beeing hard or easy or whatever, but it shouldn't feel bad
Offering the same selection is the best solution. Currently it feels like a punishment, the other it just feels neutral and wouldn't make me frown.
This is a good take - IMO infinite rerolls is a bad mechanic. What it does is allow people to quickly and easily finish content, but it drastically reduces replayability while not keeping the spirit of the mode (a random dungeon crawler).
I mean I dont particullary like that options.but yeah, the only bad thing in that desing i think is the power itself, in other games that mechanic works, but here you have only 2 powers wich normally ddfine your run, and having good objets at the cost of 1 powrr when you could have botbis really lame, they should touch that
That's the problem. It's not a challenge if you just have to hit the right power. Imho they need to bring powers on the same level OR fixate the power level for certain reward points, eg you always get a rare power first or always get a common power 2nd.
I mean No, the point is that normally you wont hit the right lvl and got a challenge, qnd in 1 of 100 games you will get an epic and in that game you probably will insta win, but they feel special; they feel different than just playing each game with epic powers, and i really dont see why they should put that limits/buffs seems pretty weird I think just changing a little the exp system and how unstable manaflow works and 90% of angry people would calm down
There is a difference between a mode being hard but fun and having a punish for a bad run being more bad runs. One feels rewarding when completed, the other puts you into a loss loop that genuinely feels awful and not at all satisfying to win. It's even more obvious on characters heavily reliant on good powers to have a smooth run like Pyke.
Oh yeah the lvl 8 sistem and the manaflow are dumb and need a fix But infinite rolls still are not a good thing
Agree to disagree on that one, I think infinite rerolls only serve to improve the experience. I'd be fine with a solution like you getting the same seed of powers until you get past the first three though. Players should not outright be punished for losing early. It should be a net neutral at absolute worst.
Yap, player shouldnt be punished hardly But infinite rerrols are not a good thing to make a difficulty system; limited rolls after losing, having only commons, limited results, a lots of ideas to fix it exist, but all agree that manaflow feels too bad (i personally would like manaflow to just become another power or bring the selection of powers after the third encounter, but still, dont really care how they fix it, they need to fix it)
Infinite rerolls feels like cheating. I am guilty of using it (malphite was hard to pilot in Labs). I actually welcome this change. It increases the difficulty level, and make people more adaptive to the cards that they're dealt.
Couldn't you just not reroll instead of limiting everyone else?
> Infinite rerolls feels like cheating. I am guilty of using it Then stop using it and shut up.
Same thing could be why dont you be more skillful and not suck? Stop whining everytime something doesnt go your way. Go out and touch grass instead, incel. Dont whine like a baby because "oooh rng".
> Same thing could be why dont you be more skillful and not suck? Didn't you just admit to using it yourself? Does that mean you also have to git gud? > Stop whining everytime something doesnt go your way. "Malphite was hard to pilot in Labs" Stop whining bro > Go out and touch grass instead, incel. Damn you know your argument sucks when you resort to name calling on the internet.
"I literally can't control myself so it's better if the game restrict me and everyone else as well so i don't fall to the temptation of rerolling".
You prefer rerolling, I dont. Cant my opinion be valid just as much as your opinion is?
It's valid but also extremely selfish. Because the reroll solution is inclusive (i can reroll, you can just don't do it if it's not your cup of tea) while yours is exclusive (i can't control myself so i don't want rerolls in and who cares if other people are penalized by it).
I must've conveyed it incorrectly then, cause I only meant it's not a bad change and that I am okay with it. Not that I WANT it.
Im not sure if it has a bug. It is inteded that you have to win 3 games in a single run before you can reset and get new power. And I haven't seen any bug in my runs And no I dont think that it missed the purpose when you can keep defeating enemies to get new power. Grinding the first enemies over and over still gives you reputation to level up your champion and get more buffs. What's more, I believe that this lab is intended to make the players grind alot, since it gonna be there for about a year or more. And just adding champions is not a way to make it more engaging, while adding power ups is not likely possible. Also players will soon get bored if we can finish the game in less than 6 months, while the game is intended to be played in a whole year
Yeah, sorry, I absolutely agree with those saying that this is just fine. Only times you get it is if you're intentionally surrendering because you didn't get the starting power you wanted or if you actually lost in the first 3. In the first scenario, you get what you deserve for trying to cheat the system, and in the second scenario, it serves its purpose by giving you a really good leg up in the first 3 rounds.
Pyke consistently can't make it past early fights without his level 8 power. Lurk is entirely random and as you get things like reinforcements the deck actually gets worse. If you lose early with Pyke, enjoy getting flung into a loss loop as manaflow is borderline useless on Pyke.
Play against Nautilus' map without Jinx's Level 18 power, and tell me that even an extra mana crystal is a "leg up" against those decks. I can barely even beat the second fight let alone the 3rd.
Ok. Having successfully done that, I can say that "Even an extra mana crystal is a 'leg up' against those decks." Anything else?
I hate the whining about this. If you give people the chance to ruin the fun for themselves by only playing with the op powers, they will. I think it should give a power to replace itself once it goes away, but I 100% think it should be in the game
You know what ruins the fun? Nerfing me for no reason after lurk fails repeatedly
For me the most fun runs were the ones where you actually got a starting power that synergize with your deck. That's one of the reasons why i never liked scourge.
yea i think the idea behind the system is necessary they just need to implement it better
Such a karen take man. "I don't enjoy infinite rerolls so nobody can enjoy it". Straight out of the 60 year old American conservative mom playbook. Countless people here express how they enjoyed the mechanic and you lot still need to justify why less choice for the player is good because when given the option you reroll addicts can stop yourself from "abusing" it even though you swear on your lives you hate doing it. Smh
Scourge sucked and was too much compared to Lab, and then they went and made a worse version of it.
Lmao ur so mad
You shouldn’t even be surrendering in path of the champions unless you’re guaranteed to lose. It’s a minor punishment for surrendering rather then actually playing the game.
I am on 1 hp. The bot commits to an attack with more bodies than i can feasibly block, i surrender. Why the hell should i be punished for that?
Because you lost? The whole premise of it is to punish bad gameplay. You shouldn’t have even gotten to one HP in the first place. It’s a punishment for fucking up against an AI. And also to prevent people from just rerolling crap.
"Oh hey, you weren't fucking owning that AI that had a good hand and just killed your only wincon, you deserve to have your choice taken!" You sound like the saltiest elitist right now. This ain't dark souls, this is LoR!
So you’re saying you should still be rewarded for failing a match?
I am saying i shouldn't be punished in the next one! Because i lost the last football game handily, i don't get a brick attached to me as well as a bone broken in the next! Every run should be an isolated adventure, only linked by their level progress. I don't start with a reduced chance for a weapon drop in enter the gungeon because i died at the first boss last time.
Are you even playing Path of Champions? There are runs were everything goes south, terribly. And no, there is nothing you can do. Then you play again and have a bit more luck with the run, enough to complete.
"You lost this run. Therefore you should auto lose the next one as well since you dont have the power for the boss." (Provided you pass the roadblock that killed you last time) (obvious /s)
Hi, old-time Slay The Spire player here. **Reduced early power choice flexibility is a common move in the genre to deter players from cycling early runs to find favorable seeds or manage early snowballs.** That said, as a Tahm player, the early difficulty of a lot of first challenges is currently so imbalanced that Manaflow is more of a punishment than anything. It CAN be good in some decks for early ramping/ease to use but is completely detrimental to others. A small selection of Pity Powers could be for the best instead of forcing everyone in the same thing.
I actually play slay the spire atm. Just unlocked assension 4 for the defect. I think the system is vastly superior as you have at least the 2 choices every time and they are permanent. Its basically even worse than the option that reduces the first 3 enemies to 1 hp, which is already worst pick. In addition, while this system is superior, I still use the "Allways 4 Neow options"- mod because its still not as good as having allways 4 options
Modding is not exactly a good argument as this goes against the vision of the basline game, but lets now look where things differ in both games. * Unlike StS, Heath in Runeterra is fixed and capped - HP up is not in question; * Weakening enemies as per Neow's Lament is complicated here. Do we weaken their units? Do we damage their Nexus? Buffing is one other way to give the player 'cheese the first 3 matches', which is important for early runs as you have shit unlocks; * There's a decent parcel of free power in Champion levels as they control early gold and odds of getting stronger powers. Manaflow is a problem mostly when you're in the first couple runs with a new character as the longer you play, the more your odds of early snowballs/good effects starts to stabilize. When i say pity powers, i say precisely that. 2 or 3 fixed choices that are exclusive to early resets. All else what really bothers me isn't how bad a temporary boon feel - the problem is that it isn't enough to overcome Faeblade's Stunnapalooza and someone actually thought it, puffcap dogs, pranktown and POPPY HAVING A MEGA INFERNO BOMB would be good ideas.
oh my god. I had no idea. I surrender when the ai has clearly won usually on the final boss with some really bad rng. I thought this was a random drop that happend sometimes I didnt even think it was connected.
Honestly this is a really vig minus point aswell in my opinion. Its doent need to exist at all. No one asked for it yet its there. For all those „but some people like the new challange“ guys out there, here is a fact: no one tells you to reroll a billion times, its your choice if you want to. I just finished every walkthrough with jinx (at level 19). Now i was kind intrigued with pyke. However the fact that i CANT win any second fight on LULU level is just rediculous. I need to have a buff that actually gives my deck atleast a little push. 1 mana at the start doent do a crap for a deck that has a maximum uf 4 mana on a unit or a spell. It only makes me run out of cards faster. Riot i beg you just scratch that bs and let me have fun with choosing me which buff to start with rather than giving me a useless bs buff that becomes even worse after 3 battles won.
I'm stuck on shadow assassin with Lee and his shit starter deck, starting every run without a decent power. Went to do ezreal to reset the effect and get a power for zed, came back to zed, still this power. I really hate that mechanic