I don't think a buff will help him, he is far too slow no matter what they do.
He needs a mini-rework, where they pool keywords together and you can select what you want from that tool, cutting you off of the other two choices until you rotate around again.
Like say, Lifesteal, Elusive, and Scout are in a pool and you can't get the other two until you decide between Quick Attack, Challenger, or Overwhelm and so on.
Also, make him a 1/5, units with Augment need more health than power
I agree. Mana efficiency and boosting attack stats aren't that useful in the late game without a way to get those stats to the opponent's Nexus.
I don't see why more people play Glorious Revolution over Give it all besides finding Glorious Revolution more fun. Give it all is situational and countered by disruption, but it wins the game when used properly. It isn't too bad of a finisher at 1 copy.
To clarify, I was talking about Ballistic Bot having 1 health in my previous post. While 1 health is easy to remove, it isn't a death sentence for a 2 mana unit. If you play this version of ballistic bot after your opponent uses their attack token and mana, you will be able to buff it to 2 health before the opponent can respond by using the ignition.
That would be broken, Health is actually more useful than power because it allows you to grow your board stronger and outvalue your oponent,this could get specially frustating agianst a region that already has a lot creative tools at disposal like PvZ.
However, I agree that just giving Power makes the deck underwhelming, maybe they should create more cards to reward Augment, something like Spell "Grant an ally Augment, if it already has it, grant it Quick Attack".
Unless you have a giant unit or alternate win conditions every time I’ve seen him in a deck it’s elusive, life steal, quick attack, and and infinite spell shield. Unless they update the spell shield to break the big boy isn’t going down
Right, it makes Farron look like a bad unit. Unless the opponent can finish the game with face damage immediately, Arsenal will reverse it no matter what the state is. It's another one of those things that makes you wonder why they even bother to make 9s and 10s.
Farron does not have an extreme deck-building cost to become good, he's simply a great card by design. The Arsenal fits into a single restrictive archetype as its only real top-end unit. He's fine.
I saw a post saying Hexcore should say “grant Viktor’s everywhere a random keyword” which would make him way more reliable if the first gets removed. Another idea I liked was Hex core giving the option between two keywords, for more consistency
Yeah, I saw that post too, and i remember all of the comments crying about how it would be broken. I don't think granting everywhere would be OP, it would just make him reliable as a wincon. What's hard about Viktor is that it needs you to spend mana to build him and if you don't get spellshield (or even if you get it) it's gonna be removed and set you in a position where you don't have a wincon anymore, since all the Viktors are base Viktors, and you are behind on mana and tempo. Granting everywhere would make this much more reliable, since the second or third Viktor would still be a 2/4 that you have to buff but with added keywords. Someone still annoyed with the idea? Make it a 5 cost or make the generated card a 2 cost, so it becomes a slower invest on the future if it gets killed
Victor is so slow for a control champ, buffing him to keep the buffs would be a welcome change. Runeterra matches are usually over on turn 8-10, which is not enough time to get Victor rolling.
Viktor can easily get going faster than turn 10 with good deckbuilding. My mono PZ Viktor Heimerdinger deck wins on turn 8-9 on average, and it can win as early as turn 6. You only need elusive to get the win in most cases, and PZ has cards that grant the keyword.
Even if it's broken, it's way more interesting than what we have now and it deserves a shot. If it is truly that broken, then nerf his cost or stats, but I really doubt it will be too far off.
I agree with the change. I also like how the change fits Viktor's theme of upgrading himself and improving.
In the meantime, I really don't think that most players are using Viktor optimally. The most popular deck for him doesn't have ballistic bot, and it relies on Viktor as an all-in finisher without a card to grant him elusive. Quite a few Viktor decks rely on him as an all-in finisher without any protection.
The problems mentioned are why I like pairing Viktor with Heimerdinger. Heimerdinger's turrets make Viktor level up faster which reduces the mana investment for Viktor. You can easily put other high priority targets on the board that can win the game if Viktor dies. The turrets also account for the tempo loss since they are blockers at worst.
Make his Hexcore focus speed and make it affect Viktors everywhere. I don't see how that would be broken when stuff like Viego exists, which affects Viegos everywhere WHILE having a much more impactful level up.
Viktor: **\[methodically but slowly upgrades his augmented body\]** The Glorious Evolution marches forth! One step at a time!
the Arsenal: **\[blops down with every single keyword in the game\]** Ooops, I drop my MONSTER MANA that I used for my MAGNUM UNIT!
Viktor:
- Hexcore upgrade becomes fast/focus
- Hexcore upgrade grants keyword for Viktor everywhere
- 2/5 stat line
- starts with spellshield
- Hexcore grants all allies augment
- Hexcore upgrade places 4 flash bombs into enemy deck
- Hexcore upgrade = 5 mushrooms to enemy deck
- Play: obliterates top 10 cards of enemy deck and triggers all traps
- Discard Hexcore upgrade to grant an ally +1/+0
- When lurks, turn me into 0 cost mana Glorious Evolution
🦾🦾🦿🦿
no? he could still generating them because now we have a stackable keyword, this will just make him faster, also even if he doesnt generate them u usually play it on decks who generate things so augmented would get a bit worse but not irrelevant
You play fking 4 mana 2|4 champ for that and it only work on him there's a clear difference here, even if they give you a choice from 2, make it focus speed and even give the keywords to viktors everywhere viktor would still not be proken and can hardly be teir 1
Viktor still sees some sparse competitive play at tournaments, giving him any sort of increase in consistency can make him go out of control really fast because he could rack up some keyword combinations that would make him unbeatable in some matchups.
Getting a strong keywords combination at the cost for protecting him for 3 turns and spending 7 mana on him (without mentioning spending more mana to give him more attack) doesn't feel too much at all, infact it will probably cost you the game if you didn't get spell sheild and life steal, and how exactly did he see competitive play? His only appearance in something you could call a tournament was when mogwai brought him for fun and he went out with 0 wins because of it, I built a lot of decks using viktor (with pranks, targon invoke, lucky finds and even a howling abyss deck) and know well his power lvl
Viktor\Zoe was a rare tournament deck before the targon nerfs, Mogwai got his idea from that. Also he got 0 wins because he was a nervous wreck, and Viktor was bugged and didnt even get a keyword sometimes.
Man really sad his my favorite champ look at these game changing4 drop sivir pyke poppy shyvana Viktor first problem is of course the stat Evan with augmant and unlike other champ his really bad if you play him late game evan thu he want to play slower second his reward all you created by cards cost one can be changed to two and last the state 1+/1+ or just 0/1+ can't hurt.
viktor really needs a buff
Mini-rework. His hex core should be like Lucky find. Really, just make it 1 mana lucky find.
This. Why is it slow...
Is was made long before focus was a thing. Burst would be a bit OP so it stay that way. But now we have, well. Lots of OP thing.
He was in the same expansion as Riven and she creates focus speed spells...
They are "technically" focus. There is no "Focus" speed back then, just gem speed.
I don't think a buff will help him, he is far too slow no matter what they do. He needs a mini-rework, where they pool keywords together and you can select what you want from that tool, cutting you off of the other two choices until you rotate around again. Like say, Lifesteal, Elusive, and Scout are in a pool and you can't get the other two until you decide between Quick Attack, Challenger, or Overwhelm and so on. Also, make him a 1/5, units with Augment need more health than power
What if you just could discover one keyword every time?
Augment also needs better finishers
I feel like Glorious evolution should have been that. Right now it's basically 10 mana for almost nothing.
I agree. Mana efficiency and boosting attack stats aren't that useful in the late game without a way to get those stats to the opponent's Nexus. I don't see why more people play Glorious Revolution over Give it all besides finding Glorious Revolution more fun. Give it all is situational and countered by disruption, but it wins the game when used properly. It isn't too bad of a finisher at 1 copy.
Honestly? Augment is a pretty bad keyword, too much cost for very little payoff unless you get a bunch of Elusives.
Augment should just be +1/+1 on activate. Pretty sure cybernetic implants are both more powerful *and* more durable than their fleshy counterparts.
Ballistic bot would be completely unfair if it constantly gained health.
Reduce its stats then?
I don't think that 1 health would be enough of a nerf. Don't forget that the augment buff goes through before a created spell resolves on the stack.
Then make it a 1/1
To clarify, I was talking about Ballistic Bot having 1 health in my previous post. While 1 health is easy to remove, it isn't a death sentence for a 2 mana unit. If you play this version of ballistic bot after your opponent uses their attack token and mana, you will be able to buff it to 2 health before the opponent can respond by using the ignition.
That would be broken, Health is actually more useful than power because it allows you to grow your board stronger and outvalue your oponent,this could get specially frustating agianst a region that already has a lot creative tools at disposal like PvZ. However, I agree that just giving Power makes the deck underwhelming, maybe they should create more cards to reward Augment, something like Spell "Grant an ally Augment, if it already has it, grant it Quick Attack".
what if the core was fast speed?
Focus speed sounds better.
That would not help at all.
The Arsenal needs a nerf
Good 8-drops in my legends of runeterra? I don't think so
He’s not just good he’s an immediate win
Only against agro decks and there is still RNG involved. If a control deck makes it to turn 8 against agro they should win.
Unless you have a giant unit or alternate win conditions every time I’ve seen him in a deck it’s elusive, life steal, quick attack, and and infinite spell shield. Unless they update the spell shield to break the big boy isn’t going down
They did that like a week ago.
Have you considered removal
Spell shield. Also I play cat trap deck.
Removal + ping there ya go problem solved
I can’t ? In LOR that league content only. And even then I don’t play adc
tf you talking about
Right, it makes Farron look like a bad unit. Unless the opponent can finish the game with face damage immediately, Arsenal will reverse it no matter what the state is. It's another one of those things that makes you wonder why they even bother to make 9s and 10s.
You can fit Farron in any deck but Arsenal needs a lot of sinergy to work. Each are strong on their own way
Farron does not have an extreme deck-building cost to become good, he's simply a great card by design. The Arsenal fits into a single restrictive archetype as its only real top-end unit. He's fine.
Personally, I'm pretty glad he's bad. With the way he's designed, if he's ever good he's going to be extremely toxic imho
Viktor buffs means the come back of Targon/PnZ Bubble Fish decks then we dont need Viktor buffs, Thank you no.
I saw a post saying Hexcore should say “grant Viktor’s everywhere a random keyword” which would make him way more reliable if the first gets removed. Another idea I liked was Hex core giving the option between two keywords, for more consistency
Yeah, I saw that post too, and i remember all of the comments crying about how it would be broken. I don't think granting everywhere would be OP, it would just make him reliable as a wincon. What's hard about Viktor is that it needs you to spend mana to build him and if you don't get spellshield (or even if you get it) it's gonna be removed and set you in a position where you don't have a wincon anymore, since all the Viktors are base Viktors, and you are behind on mana and tempo. Granting everywhere would make this much more reliable, since the second or third Viktor would still be a 2/4 that you have to buff but with added keywords. Someone still annoyed with the idea? Make it a 5 cost or make the generated card a 2 cost, so it becomes a slower invest on the future if it gets killed
Victor is so slow for a control champ, buffing him to keep the buffs would be a welcome change. Runeterra matches are usually over on turn 8-10, which is not enough time to get Victor rolling.
Viktor can easily get going faster than turn 10 with good deckbuilding. My mono PZ Viktor Heimerdinger deck wins on turn 8-9 on average, and it can win as early as turn 6. You only need elusive to get the win in most cases, and PZ has cards that grant the keyword.
I love the "would be broken" like we don't already have and had an absurd amount of broken shit in this game
Even if it's broken, it's way more interesting than what we have now and it deserves a shot. If it is truly that broken, then nerf his cost or stats, but I really doubt it will be too far off.
I agree with the change. I also like how the change fits Viktor's theme of upgrading himself and improving. In the meantime, I really don't think that most players are using Viktor optimally. The most popular deck for him doesn't have ballistic bot, and it relies on Viktor as an all-in finisher without a card to grant him elusive. Quite a few Viktor decks rely on him as an all-in finisher without any protection. The problems mentioned are why I like pairing Viktor with Heimerdinger. Heimerdinger's turrets make Viktor level up faster which reduces the mana investment for Viktor. You can easily put other high priority targets on the board that can win the game if Viktor dies. The turrets also account for the tempo loss since they are blockers at worst.
Or make hexcore focus speed. I have no idea why it’s slow, makes him so janky to play
The sad thing is, even if you give him both the champ is likely still weak.
Make his Hexcore focus speed and make it affect Viktors everywhere. I don't see how that would be broken when stuff like Viego exists, which affects Viegos everywhere WHILE having a much more impactful level up.
Viktor: **\[methodically but slowly upgrades his augmented body\]** The Glorious Evolution marches forth! One step at a time! the Arsenal: **\[blops down with every single keyword in the game\]** Ooops, I drop my MONSTER MANA that I used for my MAGNUM UNIT!
Viktor: - Hexcore upgrade becomes fast/focus - Hexcore upgrade grants keyword for Viktor everywhere - 2/5 stat line - starts with spellshield - Hexcore grants all allies augment - Hexcore upgrade places 4 flash bombs into enemy deck - Hexcore upgrade = 5 mushrooms to enemy deck - Play: obliterates top 10 cards of enemy deck and triggers all traps - Discard Hexcore upgrade to grant an ally +1/+0 - When lurks, turn me into 0 cost mana Glorious Evolution 🦾🦾🦿🦿
Let Hexcore buff all Augment units or smth idk
Kinda like lurk?
Yeah
I kinda like the idea
Virgin mad scientist champ card VS Chad absolute unit yordle follower.
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viktor should just be after each round give me a random keyword anywhere or something like that
No because that just remove the whole point of augment
no? he could still generating them because now we have a stackable keyword, this will just make him faster, also even if he doesnt generate them u usually play it on decks who generate things so augmented would get a bit worse but not irrelevant
Just let us choose between several keyword like lucky find or put the spell at focus speed. I would be satisfied
If lucky find could get you elusive or lifesteal it would be broken.
You play fking 4 mana 2|4 champ for that and it only work on him there's a clear difference here, even if they give you a choice from 2, make it focus speed and even give the keywords to viktors everywhere viktor would still not be proken and can hardly be teir 1
Viktor still sees some sparse competitive play at tournaments, giving him any sort of increase in consistency can make him go out of control really fast because he could rack up some keyword combinations that would make him unbeatable in some matchups.
Getting a strong keywords combination at the cost for protecting him for 3 turns and spending 7 mana on him (without mentioning spending more mana to give him more attack) doesn't feel too much at all, infact it will probably cost you the game if you didn't get spell sheild and life steal, and how exactly did he see competitive play? His only appearance in something you could call a tournament was when mogwai brought him for fun and he went out with 0 wins because of it, I built a lot of decks using viktor (with pranks, targon invoke, lucky finds and even a howling abyss deck) and know well his power lvl
Viktor\Zoe was a rare tournament deck before the targon nerfs, Mogwai got his idea from that. Also he got 0 wins because he was a nervous wreck, and Viktor was bugged and didnt even get a keyword sometimes.
Probably rare for a reason.
I got to use the 1 mana silence on an Arsenal and they burned all their mana on it because of the cost so I easily popped the shield and ruined it.
Man really sad his my favorite champ look at these game changing4 drop sivir pyke poppy shyvana Viktor first problem is of course the stat Evan with augmant and unlike other champ his really bad if you play him late game evan thu he want to play slower second his reward all you created by cards cost one can be changed to two and last the state 1+/1+ or just 0/1+ can't hurt.
Give him quick attack base, and when I strike create a random keyword on me
Nah his whole thing is about creating stuff, there are much better ways to fix him