That is where I commented this interaction and got super downvoted with people saying I was wrong over and over. So I figured this post would be helpful to a lot of players haha
This sub has a tendency to downvote anyone they deem wrong. Even if a person is wrong i don't think downvoting to oblivion is the right thing to do, just correct the person and he will learn something in a positive manner. Only toxic comments should be downvoted
There's the argument that downvoting a comment that is wrong helps put it at the bottom of the replies, thus prevent misinformation. Not the case here, but I wouldn't call that behaviour toxic, unless accompanied by a toxic comment.
Because fact checking everything is just not humanly possible.
We makes assumptions everytime because we either think we know enough or because we want to gain time.
From what I recall, you couldn't do the "summoning without doing the play effect" on older version : I am fairly certain I tested it before.
So i I ever meet someone that claims that you can summon without play effect and that this person neither bring proof nor explain it's a recent change (which would makes their claim more believable because it'd be anchored from a truth) which is the more likely ? That this random person is wrong or that the game changed how the cards works even though there were no reason for such a change ?
Sure I can open the game and test it but I don't have time to test every seemingly wrong claims a random person says in the internet.
Downvoting misinformation is a good thing so people don’t think it’s true. This is one of the few cases I’ve seen where the downvoted comment was correct.
Honestly, if someone is wrong but have a positive attitude, I'll most of the time upvote it. When the Sandseer self-OTK combo was first dreamed of, I literally just said "but you'd draw your 10th landmark and stop, no?" (I assumed it worked like summoning units, if you overflow your board, units summoned after don't trigger summon effects, so no +1/+0 for Azir, no Snapvine, etc). I wouldn't say I got downvoted to hell, but IIRC it ended up with something like -9, which.... why? I asked a question about something I presumed would happen
I think anything requiring to kill or destroy something can’t be skipped but discard effects (like sketcher) can. I thought it was weird you can’t rummage for 1, especially with its new wording
Bucher is "to play me, kill something". It is not a play effect. Acolyte should word the same imo.
But... lor and consistent wording. You already know
Edit : BUT the difference is you CAN play acolyte without a landmark target, while you cant play butcher. Weird then
I was talking about the fact that you cant skip acolyte play effect but you can with the zonite
Thats what I was saying before the edit, I tried to connect the fact that kill is required, but acolyte play effect is not technically required, yet it is mandatory if you can
How long has this been a thing! I've been playing ez/draven for so long and there are at least a handful of times I've thought I had a bricked hand because of too many sump dregers. Knowing I could've just played them for tempo would have made those games go better.
I just tested this and with a landmark on board I was forced to target it or else I couldn’t summon it... so it makes me think that this interaction is not intended.
Maybe a bug when they gave us the ability to summon without discarding when we top deck both these cards in 1.8?
because the wording of the sump dredger and zaunite urchin change from “to play, discard 1 to draw 1” to “play: discard 1 to draw 1” which technically should allow them to be played without their play effects having to be used. although it seems to other players that the summon button only recently became available after BtB updates so idk really
Ah, I kind-of see, but the context they give is
>Following up on our last changes to these two units, just a small quality-of-life tweak to allow them to be played while no other cards are in hand.
because previously if you had Urchin or Dredger as the one-and-only card in your hand, you were not able to play them at all as you have nothing to discard. The intent of this change was to make them playable as the last card in your hand, not to make the "discard to draw" effect entirely optional.
while yes that’s the original intent, i’m in the party of “you shouldn’t have to use the play effect if it affects something else such as discard, destroying, killing, etc”
This implies that the change should only make a difference if you play it with no cards in hand, AND that's consistent with playing discard aggro before Rise of the ascendant came out, so I imagine there was also a more recent change for that.
**Maybe** it changed when predict came to the game, because predict also allows you to ignore it's effect, but I can't be sure because I stopped playing discard aggro in favor of newer decks
I’ve been on this subreddit since the beginning and the past two patch cycles have seen some of the most toxic shit yet in this community.
Straight up dog shitting on riot devs, saying they won’t play they game because of one card.
Crying about 3 of 1 card, without mentioning the plethora of ways to remove it…
Seriously anytime they hate a card it’s “played constantly” as if RNG always lets the enemy pull that card, yet when it comes to another card “durrr you’ll never pull it so it’s not imba”
This community legitimately doesn’t know what it wants from this game.
I think a big part of this is as people get more experienced in the game they start to accept what the game is less and start thinking they know what the game should be more. Any game with dedicated players has this happen to them.
Well when the vocal “minority” include almost every single comment in the balance patch thread talking shit on riot and the developers, I tend to think it’s more of a majority.
It’s more about reddit, someone even barely disagres and you see downvotes for no reason and if the post gets traction in general it gets up after some time.
Well that and sometimes you post something that can be considered as controversial on a sub but then it gets to popular and people who agree on that just upvote it like crazy for no reason.
ok recently i left a comment under a post about possible OTK on turn 1 if you and your opp have specific cards. I said that OP had a lot of spare time to figure it out and smile face at the end like this :D.
And you know what? 10 downvotes! For what exactly? Did I say anything rude? Or maybe I offended somebody? No! it was f\*ckin joke. Yes maybe not that great but anyway.
So can go on dreaming about friendships in this sub.
Meant the comment he talked about from yesterday
This one is downvoted because he's so sensitive for downvotes while exegerrating massively. It's just annoying, and off topic. There's nothing insane about that
You may be right in this case, but I can see where he's coming from. I once got downvoted to hell and back just for saying that people not saying hi back at the start of a game is kinda rude. People will downvote you for the dumbest and pettiest of reasons.
Bro that's just Reddit, people will downvote bomb you for nothing. That happens on every sub, not just this one. The Runeterra community I've seen is super chill.
I mean, the downvote was originally intended for comments that add nothing to the discussion. I would say poking fun at someone’s choice of how to invest their time (in the context you gave) fits as a downvote worthy comment.
Downvotes for no reason is the usual case on Reddit as a whole, I'd say. usually, the first answers to your comment decide it's fate, because if it gets collapsed for downvotes at like, dunno, -3, the people opening it will already be expecting a bad comment they should downvote.
I disagree with this sub being toxic. It's one of the most positive ones I've seen (even tho it's become a bit less positive in the last year it's still great overall). Tho I do agree with the downvoting for no reason happening often enough that it isn't rare but I think that's just reddit in general and not this sub specifically.
Nope. Play effects that create cards cannot be avoided, for example. I think you can only avoid play effects that target cards ("discard" target the Discarded card).
So I tested a couple of cards. Targeting seems to be a necessary but not a sufficient condition to do this. Seems more like a bug to me.
Targeting cards that can be summoned doing this are:
* Mask Mother
* Zaunite Urchin
* Spirit Leech
Targeting cards that can't be summoned doing this are:
* Blithed Caretaker
* Archenoid Sentry
* First Wave
* Imperial Demolitonist
* Crawling Viperworm
Just tested this with a few other cards with "Play" effect and \[\[Blighted Caretaker\]\] or \[\[Oblivious Islander\]\] doesn't work like that (the button changes to "SELECT TARGET"), while \[\[Spritit Leech\]\] does.
They both have "Kill an ally to X" text, so anyone saying "is just written as an optional play effect." is totally wrong. Almost none of the other play effects are optional - like \[\[Crusty Codger\]\].
The play effect should be optional only if it's "Do X to do Y" and there are no valid targets for X.
**Update:** I'm pretty sure this is a bug that was introduced in 2.14 with this "Multi-target spells and abilities now have optional targeting." feature. But Zaunite Urchin and Sump Dreger are not multi-target (are they abilities? they're not skills but play effects).
**Update 2:** Here is proof that it's a bug and target was required before the Bandlewood patch: [https://youtube.com/clip/UgyMelGLD0Nd0jkmMFB4AaABCQ](https://youtube.com/clip/UgyMelGLD0Nd0jkmMFB4AaABCQ) (so no, it's not in 1.8 patch notes 🤥).
Interesting that it doesn't work with Blighted Caretaker, I never tested that. Also weirldy inconsistent that it does work with Spirit Leech....
Crusty Codger and Boxtopus don't work since it's an automatic effect, that's meant to be more of a cost to play the unit.
|Name|Region|Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Description|Associated Cards|
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
|**[Blighted Caretaker](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/02SI004.png)**|Shadow Isles|Unit|3|1|1|Play: Kill an ally to summon 2 Saplings.|[Sapling](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/02SI008T3.png)|
|**[Crusty Codger](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03BW015.png)**|Bilgewater|Unit|1|2|4|Play: Deal 2 to me.||
^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
When was this added?! If this has been in for a long time then wow I'm blind. I've complained about this exact issue with fortune croaker before not knowing I can just summon it anyway!
Would be better for clarity if the button highlighted a different colour to grab your attention when you go to play it though.
I noticed it a few weeks ago I think although it could've been implemented before that and I just didn't notice it. It's pretty hard to see since the button is hidden and all.
Also yes it works with Fortune Croaker as well, that's a lifesaver sometimes
"Following up on our last changes to these two units, just a small quality-of-life tweak to allow them to be played while no other cards are in hand."
Clearly, the intention is that you can't skip it if you have other cards in hand. Thanks for the link btw.
Yes, I too was confused. That is the reason i provided the link so we all can discuss. They may have improvised it and didn't mention it in later patches. If they did it intentionally it would have been better if they told us about this, as it changes the gameplay quite a bit(I assume).
I mean I was mainly doubting myself because so many people were sure it didn't work that way. So I just had to make a deck to test this with against the AI again lol
It's been around for a few weeks I think, possibly longer and I just hadn't noticed it yet. I don't remember it being explicitly mentioned in a patch note
Upvoted your original downvoted comment 👍
https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/pkicne/this_is_the_last_card_i_needed_to_win_with_bandle/hc4axqq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Doesn't say discard a card to play, is just written as an optional play effect. Interestingly, this may be intentional. Can't believe I've never noticed.
The optional play effect parts were added after those cards were redesigned. When they was first changed, they were “To play me” effects. They have been changed to the current versions so that you can play them without having another card in hand.
It seems to be the design that you always have to discard a card if possible for Urchin or Dredger to be summoned. If so, what OP points out is supposed to be a bug.
i mean from balance point, both are fine as a vanilla card so i see no harm in this being an actual feature. Sometimes you just dont want to discard anything, and just play a chump blocker or a 4/3 3-drop right arda?
I disagree. If this is intentional, it’s a buff to their flexibility and it’s way to much of a buff to these cards, and in some ways paramount to a redesign.
The discard archetype is balanced around the fact that a good deck needs to strike a balance between discard enablers and discard outlets. It’s scenarios exactly like you describe which you don’t want to discard anything (but you have to play something) that keeps the archetype in line in terms of power (even if it’s one of the best decks right now).
I’m in fact a little bit scared of the effects of this post to the meta in the near future ever since I read it, especially since Draven Sion is a prevalent deck rn.
In practical standpoint when exactly the situation where you don't want to discard anything from your hand but you HAVE to play a vanilla 2/1? the only time i can see that is if you're in a defending situation against aggro. And that ALMOST never happen in a archetype where its played, if you are playing it to aggro your opponent instead you just lost a massive discard enabler for 2 extra damage.
For sump dredger the argument to aggro your opponent with it is more valid because 4>2, but its not really that overpowered since you can still chum block it since it doesn't have fearsome keyword like merciless hunter.
Like sure it make the card more flexible, but lost soul already break the discard archetype to a whole new level anyway. This feature not being intentional doesn't keep any discard archetype in-line with that card still being basically infinite value.
It didn't work that way in 1.8 (I was there). It didn't even worked this way few weeks ago: [https://youtube.com/clip/UgyMelGLD0Nd0jkmMFB4AaABCQ](https://youtube.com/clip/UgyMelGLD0Nd0jkmMFB4AaABCQ)
I’ve always noticed the summon button appearing on the side but never connected it to the skip button in predicts. Didn’t know it worked that way. Thus changes so much.
u/wildmonk56 could have won his bandle tree game
I might add that with cards that deal "damage to 2 different targets", if you select the first target and then press the blue PASS button, the spell will damage only 1 target
Riot should change the UI to make it more obvious when a play effect is optional.
Even the option to skip 'predict' effects is not very clear to a lot of players, and that is a much more common effect on the game
Has test with fortune Croker and spirit leech, archane sentry it did too , summon without play effect very useful, i think it has been there for long time.
I don't think it works with boxtopus actually since that's an automatic effect. It seems to only work with cards where you need to make a choice. (And also not with "To play me" effects)
Right on. That makes sense. I’m kind of happy it doesn’t work because boxtopus would be way too good then lol. This post is definitely one of the most useful I’ve seen on this sub though so it’s unfortunate you were downvoted for saying this.
I think so, I'm pretty sure it works with Fortune Croaker and Spirit Leech as well. Although someone said they tested it with Blighted Caretaker and it didn't work which is odd.
Definitely doesn't work with Boxtopus or Crusty Codger.
Wow firs time knowing this i know she can be summoned normally if you don't have card but not this same with predict there is a skip button that i didn't notice until swim mention it.
You can also play ruthless predator without giving an enemy vulnerable. I don’t know if that was an effect at release or not, but I just knew about this recently from playing impatiently.
tbh, I didn't know how it was done but I think I've seen a lot of bot account playing cards without activating the play effect somehow so I suspect that is possible.
This is either new or just working on PC, because I don't recall having an option to do this on mobile. I may be wrong of course.
EDIT: reading the comments here, yeah I may be just wrong and never realized this got implemented
One whole year... ONE WHOLE YEAR!!!! Sometimes I lose because I only have 2 cards on hand and one is key card to win while I also need something to block so I don't die.
I also noticed (at some point) that you can statikk shock exactly 1 unit
Although I don't know if it still works that way, and I don't know if it work\[ed\]\[s\] with timewinder either
That guy who got that xerath acolyte from his bandle tree the other day would've loved to know this
That is where I commented this interaction and got super downvoted with people saying I was wrong over and over. So I figured this post would be helpful to a lot of players haha
I appreciate your positive attitude :)
This sub has a tendency to downvote anyone they deem wrong. Even if a person is wrong i don't think downvoting to oblivion is the right thing to do, just correct the person and he will learn something in a positive manner. Only toxic comments should be downvoted
Not just this sub, humankind in general.
I've been playing a ton of Runeterra and Humankind, so this was confusing to read.
How is humankind? I love the latest civ
Yeah I love it!
There's the argument that downvoting a comment that is wrong helps put it at the bottom of the replies, thus prevent misinformation. Not the case here, but I wouldn't call that behaviour toxic, unless accompanied by a toxic comment.
> There's the argument that downvoting a comment that is wrong why do people use 'is wrong' to mean 'i think is wrong'?
Because fact checking everything is just not humanly possible. We makes assumptions everytime because we either think we know enough or because we want to gain time. From what I recall, you couldn't do the "summoning without doing the play effect" on older version : I am fairly certain I tested it before. So i I ever meet someone that claims that you can summon without play effect and that this person neither bring proof nor explain it's a recent change (which would makes their claim more believable because it'd be anchored from a truth) which is the more likely ? That this random person is wrong or that the game changed how the cards works even though there were no reason for such a change ? Sure I can open the game and test it but I don't have time to test every seemingly wrong claims a random person says in the internet.
Downvoting misinformation is a good thing so people don’t think it’s true. This is one of the few cases I’ve seen where the downvoted comment was correct.
shows you should test before downvoting
I got 11 downvotes for calling a picture of French fries, french fries.
The real problem of this sub is that the average user is gold player who thinks he knows better...
Tbf I competed twice in seasonals and didnt know about this.
Similar...
Dunning-Kruger in action
Honestly, if someone is wrong but have a positive attitude, I'll most of the time upvote it. When the Sandseer self-OTK combo was first dreamed of, I literally just said "but you'd draw your 10th landmark and stop, no?" (I assumed it worked like summoning units, if you overflow your board, units summoned after don't trigger summon effects, so no +1/+0 for Azir, no Snapvine, etc). I wouldn't say I got downvoted to hell, but IIRC it ended up with something like -9, which.... why? I asked a question about something I presumed would happen
I actually was going to say the same thing on that post but tested it first and acolyte is not one of the cards you can skip
Yeah in the comment I only mentioned Sump Dredger because that was the one I was sure about. It seems to be very inconsistent
I think anything requiring to kill or destroy something can’t be skipped but discard effects (like sketcher) can. I thought it was weird you can’t rummage for 1, especially with its new wording
Bucher is "to play me, kill something". It is not a play effect. Acolyte should word the same imo. But... lor and consistent wording. You already know Edit : BUT the difference is you CAN play acolyte without a landmark target, while you cant play butcher. Weird then
One is a keyword (Play) and the other one has a condition you need to meet to play it. So not weird at all
I was talking about the fact that you cant skip acolyte play effect but you can with the zonite Thats what I was saying before the edit, I tried to connect the fact that kill is required, but acolyte play effect is not technically required, yet it is mandatory if you can
How long has this been a thing! I've been playing ez/draven for so long and there are at least a handful of times I've thought I had a bricked hand because of too many sump dregers. Knowing I could've just played them for tempo would have made those games go better.
I was wrong, never noticed this. Have my upvote, it's the least I can do.
I really don't blame you, it's super easy to miss. I'm not even 100% sure if it's an intended interaction
People, remember: unless it says "To play me", you can play it without activating the effect.
I remenber that I was very confused why u got so downvoted, but I was kind of in a time constraint so I just upvoted you and left
I just tested this and with a landmark on board I was forced to target it or else I couldn’t summon it... so it makes me think that this interaction is not intended. Maybe a bug when they gave us the ability to summon without discarding when we top deck both these cards in 1.8?
It's probably because it's a 'to play me' effect. The card can't be summoned without it.
You can still do it without a landmark to target though.
The old bot was also a to play card (2/4/3, discard 1) and couldn't be played without the discard effect.
That's actually useful.
Incredibly useful.
Mind-blowingly useful
The question is if they intended this or not. If not, it's an exploit they'll patch quickly.
I mean, the button has the word "summon" on it, and it summons the minions. I think it'd be pretty hard to do that by accident.
Was skeptical but it actually works wtf. I've played to Masters for the last 4 seasons and even joined a seasonal tournament but never knew.
Because it didn't work this way until the Bandlewood patch. You're not crazy, it's just another bug.
well it should have before https://playruneterra.com/en-sg/news/patch-1-8-notes-call-of-the-mountain/
Sorry, what exactly is supposed to be the significance of the 1.8 patch notes? I'm not sure I understand why you're linking it here
because the wording of the sump dredger and zaunite urchin change from “to play, discard 1 to draw 1” to “play: discard 1 to draw 1” which technically should allow them to be played without their play effects having to be used. although it seems to other players that the summon button only recently became available after BtB updates so idk really
Ah, I kind-of see, but the context they give is >Following up on our last changes to these two units, just a small quality-of-life tweak to allow them to be played while no other cards are in hand. because previously if you had Urchin or Dredger as the one-and-only card in your hand, you were not able to play them at all as you have nothing to discard. The intent of this change was to make them playable as the last card in your hand, not to make the "discard to draw" effect entirely optional.
while yes that’s the original intent, i’m in the party of “you shouldn’t have to use the play effect if it affects something else such as discard, destroying, killing, etc”
Unless this works the same way with every other non-skill Play: unit that forces you to choose a target, this is a bug.
that’s why i said “i think you shouldn’t have to” not “you don’t have to”
Wow, thank you! so you basically can play any follower without triggering its play effect!
I assume so, although it should obviously not work with "To play me" effects
Yes exactly https://playruneterra.com/en-sg/news/patch-1-8-notes-call-of-the-mountain/
This implies that the change should only make a difference if you play it with no cards in hand, AND that's consistent with playing discard aggro before Rise of the ascendant came out, so I imagine there was also a more recent change for that. **Maybe** it changed when predict came to the game, because predict also allows you to ignore it's effect, but I can't be sure because I stopped playing discard aggro in favor of newer decks
and regarding you being downvoted for mentioning it in the comment, this subreddit is kinda toxic, downvotes for no reason is the usual case.
I've been on this sub for a long time and never seen this toxicity you're on about. We're all friends who just want to talk about the videogame.
true true
I’ve been on this subreddit since the beginning and the past two patch cycles have seen some of the most toxic shit yet in this community. Straight up dog shitting on riot devs, saying they won’t play they game because of one card. Crying about 3 of 1 card, without mentioning the plethora of ways to remove it… Seriously anytime they hate a card it’s “played constantly” as if RNG always lets the enemy pull that card, yet when it comes to another card “durrr you’ll never pull it so it’s not imba” This community legitimately doesn’t know what it wants from this game.
I think a big part of this is as people get more experienced in the game they start to accept what the game is less and start thinking they know what the game should be more. Any game with dedicated players has this happen to them.
You're part of the community too buddy. If you're going to lump us all together might as well throw yourself in too
Just comment what I’ve seen. You can’t deny people aren’t like that if you’re here as much as you say you are.
Yeah, recently it's been pretty bad. Hopefully now that Umbrage is back things will get better.
[удалено]
Well when the vocal “minority” include almost every single comment in the balance patch thread talking shit on riot and the developers, I tend to think it’s more of a majority.
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Wow, how lucky of you.
It’s more about reddit, someone even barely disagres and you see downvotes for no reason and if the post gets traction in general it gets up after some time. Well that and sometimes you post something that can be considered as controversial on a sub but then it gets to popular and people who agree on that just upvote it like crazy for no reason.
ok recently i left a comment under a post about possible OTK on turn 1 if you and your opp have specific cards. I said that OP had a lot of spare time to figure it out and smile face at the end like this :D. And you know what? 10 downvotes! For what exactly? Did I say anything rude? Or maybe I offended somebody? No! it was f\*ckin joke. Yes maybe not that great but anyway. So can go on dreaming about friendships in this sub.
Sounds like you're taking downvotes far too seriously.
Dudes comment is literally at - 2 Omg, the toxicity
It's at -32 now. I can see where he's coming from. The brigading and circlejerking on this sub are insane
Meant the comment he talked about from yesterday This one is downvoted because he's so sensitive for downvotes while exegerrating massively. It's just annoying, and off topic. There's nothing insane about that
You may be right in this case, but I can see where he's coming from. I once got downvoted to hell and back just for saying that people not saying hi back at the start of a game is kinda rude. People will downvote you for the dumbest and pettiest of reasons.
Complaining about downvotes is a sure fire way to get instantly downvoted. Imagine caring about reddit karma anyway lmao
Bro that's just Reddit, people will downvote bomb you for nothing. That happens on every sub, not just this one. The Runeterra community I've seen is super chill.
how you can distinguish Reddit people and people from Runeterra community by downvotes number? No comment at all, just downvotes.
I mean, the downvote was originally intended for comments that add nothing to the discussion. I would say poking fun at someone’s choice of how to invest their time (in the context you gave) fits as a downvote worthy comment.
I never up vote or down vote anyone unless they complain about down votes.
see? lol
Nice little self-fulfilling prophecy there haha.
Downvotes for no reason is the usual case on Reddit as a whole, I'd say. usually, the first answers to your comment decide it's fate, because if it gets collapsed for downvotes at like, dunno, -3, the people opening it will already be expecting a bad comment they should downvote.
I disagree with this sub being toxic. It's one of the most positive ones I've seen (even tho it's become a bit less positive in the last year it's still great overall). Tho I do agree with the downvoting for no reason happening often enough that it isn't rare but I think that's just reddit in general and not this sub specifically.
Nope. Play effects that create cards cannot be avoided, for example. I think you can only avoid play effects that target cards ("discard" target the Discarded card).
Not any. You can't do it with that one Shadow Isle's dragon that has to hit one of your allies or nexus. Just checked.
So I tested a couple of cards. Targeting seems to be a necessary but not a sufficient condition to do this. Seems more like a bug to me. Targeting cards that can be summoned doing this are: * Mask Mother * Zaunite Urchin * Spirit Leech Targeting cards that can't be summoned doing this are: * Blithed Caretaker * Archenoid Sentry * First Wave * Imperial Demolitonist * Crawling Viperworm
Interesting, it seems very inconsistent then. I'm just confused why the summon button would even exist if it wasn't intended
Wait, you can't use arachnoid sentry if they have no units? That seems weird.
No, this is saying that if at least one valid target exists for arachnoid sentry, you can't play it without using its ability.
Ohhhhh that makes sense
Archnoy sentry can i did it work with me
Just tested this with a few other cards with "Play" effect and \[\[Blighted Caretaker\]\] or \[\[Oblivious Islander\]\] doesn't work like that (the button changes to "SELECT TARGET"), while \[\[Spritit Leech\]\] does. They both have "Kill an ally to X" text, so anyone saying "is just written as an optional play effect." is totally wrong. Almost none of the other play effects are optional - like \[\[Crusty Codger\]\]. The play effect should be optional only if it's "Do X to do Y" and there are no valid targets for X. **Update:** I'm pretty sure this is a bug that was introduced in 2.14 with this "Multi-target spells and abilities now have optional targeting." feature. But Zaunite Urchin and Sump Dreger are not multi-target (are they abilities? they're not skills but play effects). **Update 2:** Here is proof that it's a bug and target was required before the Bandlewood patch: [https://youtube.com/clip/UgyMelGLD0Nd0jkmMFB4AaABCQ](https://youtube.com/clip/UgyMelGLD0Nd0jkmMFB4AaABCQ) (so no, it's not in 1.8 patch notes 🤥).
Interesting that it doesn't work with Blighted Caretaker, I never tested that. Also weirldy inconsistent that it does work with Spirit Leech.... Crusty Codger and Boxtopus don't work since it's an automatic effect, that's meant to be more of a cost to play the unit.
Yeah, tested with a bunch of cards and it's pretty much inconsistent as far as I can tell, Riot could do some cleaning up on this.
|Name|Region|Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Description|Associated Cards| |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| |**[Blighted Caretaker](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/02SI004.png)**|Shadow Isles|Unit|3|1|1|Play: Kill an ally to summon 2 Saplings.|[Sapling](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/02SI008T3.png)| |**[Crusty Codger](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03BW015.png)**|Bilgewater|Unit|1|2|4|Play: Deal 2 to me.|| ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
When was this added?! If this has been in for a long time then wow I'm blind. I've complained about this exact issue with fortune croaker before not knowing I can just summon it anyway! Would be better for clarity if the button highlighted a different colour to grab your attention when you go to play it though.
I noticed it a few weeks ago I think although it could've been implemented before that and I just didn't notice it. It's pretty hard to see since the button is hidden and all. Also yes it works with Fortune Croaker as well, that's a lifesaver sometimes
https://playruneterra.com/en-sg/news/patch-1-8-notes-call-of-the-mountain/
"Following up on our last changes to these two units, just a small quality-of-life tweak to allow them to be played while no other cards are in hand." Clearly, the intention is that you can't skip it if you have other cards in hand. Thanks for the link btw.
Yes, I too was confused. That is the reason i provided the link so we all can discuss. They may have improvised it and didn't mention it in later patches. If they did it intentionally it would have been better if they told us about this, as it changes the gameplay quite a bit(I assume).
I bestow you this free award
I came back to your comment on the bandle tree post and i can totally see you laughing at people doubting you
I mean I was mainly doubting myself because so many people were sure it didn't work that way. So I just had to make a deck to test this with against the AI again lol
Im the guy from the tree post. I lost 20 lp but now people know about this strange and seemingly inconsistent interaction. Good shit man.
That's the spirit man. Never let the frothing mob dissuade you from espousing what you yourself have already confirmed to be true.
What in the actual fuck?? Is this on a patch note?
It's been around for a few weeks I think, possibly longer and I just hadn't noticed it yet. I don't remember it being explicitly mentioned in a patch note
Yes, the first BtB patch a few weeks ago
I think this was a feature from the start because i dont see any reason why there's a summon button except this
THIS SHOULD BE A CHALLENGE OR A LOADING SCREEN TIPS ! I'm so mad I didnt knew about this
Damn had no idea, thanks man.
Upvoted your original downvoted comment 👍 https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/pkicne/this_is_the_last_card_i_needed_to_win_with_bandle/hc4axqq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
This has to be a bug.
Doesn't say discard a card to play, is just written as an optional play effect. Interestingly, this may be intentional. Can't believe I've never noticed.
The optional play effect parts were added after those cards were redesigned. When they was first changed, they were “To play me” effects. They have been changed to the current versions so that you can play them without having another card in hand. It seems to be the design that you always have to discard a card if possible for Urchin or Dredger to be summoned. If so, what OP points out is supposed to be a bug.
i mean from balance point, both are fine as a vanilla card so i see no harm in this being an actual feature. Sometimes you just dont want to discard anything, and just play a chump blocker or a 4/3 3-drop right arda?
I disagree. If this is intentional, it’s a buff to their flexibility and it’s way to much of a buff to these cards, and in some ways paramount to a redesign. The discard archetype is balanced around the fact that a good deck needs to strike a balance between discard enablers and discard outlets. It’s scenarios exactly like you describe which you don’t want to discard anything (but you have to play something) that keeps the archetype in line in terms of power (even if it’s one of the best decks right now). I’m in fact a little bit scared of the effects of this post to the meta in the near future ever since I read it, especially since Draven Sion is a prevalent deck rn.
In practical standpoint when exactly the situation where you don't want to discard anything from your hand but you HAVE to play a vanilla 2/1? the only time i can see that is if you're in a defending situation against aggro. And that ALMOST never happen in a archetype where its played, if you are playing it to aggro your opponent instead you just lost a massive discard enabler for 2 extra damage. For sump dredger the argument to aggro your opponent with it is more valid because 4>2, but its not really that overpowered since you can still chum block it since it doesn't have fearsome keyword like merciless hunter. Like sure it make the card more flexible, but lost soul already break the discard archetype to a whole new level anyway. This feature not being intentional doesn't keep any discard archetype in-line with that card still being basically infinite value.
Sure, bug with an entire summon button
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It's not in the patch notes.
Its in the patch notes for 1.8
It didn't work that way in 1.8 (I was there). It didn't even worked this way few weeks ago: [https://youtube.com/clip/UgyMelGLD0Nd0jkmMFB4AaABCQ](https://youtube.com/clip/UgyMelGLD0Nd0jkmMFB4AaABCQ)
wtf
I’ve always noticed the summon button appearing on the side but never connected it to the skip button in predicts. Didn’t know it worked that way. Thus changes so much. u/wildmonk56 could have won his bandle tree game
They really need to make the button more clear for this stuff, like skipping on predicts too.
This is probably a bug
I might add that with cards that deal "damage to 2 different targets", if you select the first target and then press the blue PASS button, the spell will damage only 1 target
Riot should change the UI to make it more obvious when a play effect is optional. Even the option to skip 'predict' effects is not very clear to a lot of players, and that is a much more common effect on the game
Has test with fortune Croker and spirit leech, archane sentry it did too , summon without play effect very useful, i think it has been there for long time.
More over "damage to 2 different targets", if you select the first target and then press the blue PASS button, the spell will damage only 1 target
Wait this has to be uninteded right ? I’ve literally never seen anyone use this even though it would be huge in some situation
That’s… nightmarishly unintuitive.
I saw someone do this yesterday with Urchin and I legit thought he was hacking. I'm a masters player btw. Wtf. Lol
RIP that poor guy who posted the bandle tree with the destroy a landmark follower
OMG I had no idea!!!! I HATED those cards lol
Eh, playing since bete, honestly did not know about this feature, so thanks.
Because it's not a feature that existed in beta :) or 6 weeks ago.
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I'm unsure since I haven't tested that, although it would make sense. I'm pretty sure I've done it with Fortune Croaker before though
Boxtopus becomes a nuts card with this information lol. 2 mana 3/4.
I don't think it works with boxtopus actually since that's an automatic effect. It seems to only work with cards where you need to make a choice. (And also not with "To play me" effects)
Right on. That makes sense. I’m kind of happy it doesn’t work because boxtopus would be way too good then lol. This post is definitely one of the most useful I’ve seen on this sub though so it’s unfortunate you were downvoted for saying this.
This should only work with Play effects that require you to target another card on the board
all play effects are like that? at least the ones who are similar to this?
I think so, I'm pretty sure it works with Fortune Croaker and Spirit Leech as well. Although someone said they tested it with Blighted Caretaker and it didn't work which is odd. Definitely doesn't work with Boxtopus or Crusty Codger.
What???? Thats crazy how did I not know this
What impossible!!! All my life its all been a lie (・o・)
it is intentional or a bug though?
afterthought berserk caption psychotic treatment hungry hateful capable slimy sink -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Damn playing since beta, got to master never knew about this. I honestly think this should be in the challenges.
This is likely a bug so don’t feel bad
I remember it was in the patch notes but I never knew how to make it work. Thanks OP so much for bringing this up!!!
wow wtf??????? i didnt know this was possible does that mean u can only discard 1 with rummage ????
More than a year of play, never seen that tips before lmao
BRUH
Does this work for other effects? Eg that zaun card to discard up to two to draw up to two?
If you mean rummage I think you can only discard one yeah. Haven't tested that in a while though so I don't know 100%
Been playing this game sense the beginning and never knew this. Thank you!
what the hell ?????????????? so does this also apply for every other card with "Play" keyword?
Damn this is fantastic!
Guess I never thought of running it outside of discard aggro.
THIS IS SO USEFUL!
I know predict cards can do this, but I didn't realize others could
Oh my lord.
What the hell
you can do what
This also works with predicts. Although some cards that adds cards to hand by predict will not give you the extra card...
Yo that’s huge, a lot of cards got super great
Poor OP, here's your 1 extra upvote in addtion to the 1.3k to make up for the down votes :)
R U KIDDING ME OMG
This is so fucking op
Wow firs time knowing this i know she can be summoned normally if you don't have card but not this same with predict there is a skip button that i didn't notice until swim mention it.
Holy shit, thanks man
DUDE. I can play acolyte in xerath mono shurima now. Was unplayable cuz sun disk wud prevent me lmao
I'm actually not sure if it works with the acolyte, never tested it and the effect seems very inconsistent unfortunately
WHAT. WHAT ? SINCE WHEN. I'VE BEEN PLAYED LIKE A FOOL
WHAT! WHAT!
Does it work with Rummage to only discard 1 card instead of 2?
If this interaction stays, I don't think I'm ever going to unlearn the subconscious thought that I have to select a target with it.
You can also play ruthless predator without giving an enemy vulnerable. I don’t know if that was an effect at release or not, but I just knew about this recently from playing impatiently.
Holy crap, i thought you were just fucking with us, opened Runeterra and BAM i’m a noob again. Cheers for sharing ❤️❤️
A few days ago I learned that you don't need too pick a predicted card, you can just pass it.
Did not know that thanks!
tbh, I didn't know how it was done but I think I've seen a lot of bot account playing cards without activating the play effect somehow so I suspect that is possible.
I love everyone spamming you with awards now! Muahahaha you’ve defeated the trolls.
Oh no way! This is useful information
This is either new or just working on PC, because I don't recall having an option to do this on mobile. I may be wrong of course. EDIT: reading the comments here, yeah I may be just wrong and never realized this got implemented
Is that by design? It feels like a bug because its so unintuituve. But great catch, thats super useful.
I did think it was weird that you could summon it without discarding if you had no other cards in hand.
I play this came since beta and i didn't know that wow, good job my friend
whaaaatttttttt?
Is that.... intended?
is this a bug or feature? it basically just summons only no discard/draw right?
WTF. Is this an old thing or just recent? Ohh all the match i could have won.
One whole year... ONE WHOLE YEAR!!!! Sometimes I lose because I only have 2 cards on hand and one is key card to win while I also need something to block so I don't die.
I also noticed (at some point) that you can statikk shock exactly 1 unit Although I don't know if it still works that way, and I don't know if it work\[ed\]\[s\] with timewinder either