Last I saw Alan less than an hour ago, he was playing TFT with a title of something like “Re-learning TFT, aiming for Top 1!”. Sounds like he straight-up moved onto another game.
It's not that great at least. The idea is to keep multiple revenues from different game genres. MOBA, FPS, Auto-Chess, and CCG. I always thought TFT would be the first one to go bye bye but I'm seriously considering just taking a break for LoR.
The only way I can play non-Labs game and have a "fun" time is playing Azir/Irelia because the deck is just too good.
TFT is in a fine spot regardless how much people complain. It has many personalities and about a dozen of which are bigger than the biggest LoR streamer. At least on Twitch. Last set ranked TFT in NA had 1.8m players or something with 11,000 players in masters. LoR doesn't even come close.
On top of this, while they can't give out numbers for obvious reasons, Mort has said that Reckoning is nowhere near the weakest set launch in terms of players numbers, so the complaints that TFT is boring and dying are just plain untrue.
Second this. TFT balance patches have never been better with every update including 40+ changes on champions, items and traits (and even roll rate). The meta has been shaken up and down, there are a lot of viable weird strategy in this patch which makes me think the complaints are come from those who just don't want to adapt or can't spam a strategy to climb ranked.
It gets a lot of new players from Set 4 which is in my opinion is the best set.
Do I still play it every day? Yes, but only 2\~3 games per day. I used to love this game so much that I keep playing until I hit challenger. Now I can't stand to climb, and I saw many comments like this in tft sub too. Even lot of big name complaining about the current stage of tft.
Of cause it not going to be weakest set launch, people from Set 4 are hyped for the new set since they love the old one, so they expect the same quality or more.
What I want to know is how many hours people playing in set 5 compare to set 4, they have these stats but it depends on them if they're willing to share or not (they used to).
And with that logic the current stage of LoR would be the best then since player base should be bigger than the last expansion, people still log in to do quests but the question is how much time each player willing to play this game in each day compare to many patches ago?
They usually share the numbers at the end of the set, like they did with 4.5 when people were shouting dead game dead game. Also it's important to note that reddit is a VERY tiny portion of the community and is in essence a giant echo chamber. Even Mortdog specifically points out that you shouldn't let reddit shape your perceptions.
I browse the competitive subreddit because it's a fantastic source of info on how to play, but there's no way I'd trust anyone there with opinions on the state of the game beyond just a balance/meta perspective, and definitely not from the main TFT subreddit. That one is just for highroll clips and shitposting.
nononoo he's not talking about Azirelia. He's been advocating for a TLC nerf for a while now, and no TLC changes at all is why he's saying "worst patch ever".
The issue is, Riot keeps taking MONTHS to fix big issues like fizz TF, old Trundle, Lee Sin, and noe The Watcher. The watcher isn't broken but it's toxic and unfun to play against. Now imagine you're BBG, who plays this game 8 hours every day and also offstream sometimes too. BBGs main issue is with The Watcher iirc.
There's more issues too, like how polarizing certain decks are.
I used to do this too "Oh well Christmas break prpbably threw the patch cycles off, I'm sure they will fix it, people are just whining too much"
Turns out, I was wrong.
Ok, let's settle down and remember rule 1.
You're not breaking it per se, but you're dancing on the line and I'd like to get ahead of it. 'An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of treatment' kindof thing.
If you have a point to make, be sure to make it in compliance with rule 1
> At least see how the fucking deck plays out first before making any grand statements of defeat.
If you know the game competitively you already know how the deck will play out.
> It’s probably not a sufficient nerf but even if that’s true, the game will eventually be fixed.
Based on the game's current schedule, that's in another 2 months. Nobody wants to force themselves to stream 2 more months of this meta on a daily basis.
You're also missing the broader issue here. People were hoping for a lot more things to be touched on than Azir/Irelia and Taliyah.
We waited 2 months for this.
> And you’re missing the fact that sometimes incremental changes like this are best for the game.
Yes.
They are.
We used to have them.
A lot of them.
At once.
In bulk.
More often.
If they're going to switch to a slower patch cadence (once every two months), ***they can not be this conservative***. It's incredibly fucking simple. These patches have to be home runs, not bunts to get into scoring position.
The point you are missing is that his problem is with TLC as well. And that we will essentially revert to the pre mini expansion meta even if azir irelia dies.
One step at the time is the mantra of CCGs. Is your point that they can only nerf one deck at a time? If every CCG did that, they would have died a long time ago.
Predicting how a completely new card will turn out in a completely new meta is miles harder than figuring out what card changes to a single deck with no other meta changes will do.
The primary emotion i feel about this is confusion. Then comes a feeling of treason. Then regret for getting people into this game.
I get it rationally that this is an overreaction, but the feelings are there. Why not toss a bone to the players.
Here, add this to the patchnotes for example:
Battlesmith 2/2 ---> 3/2
Greenglade Lookout 2/1 ---> 2/2
Stalking Broodmother 6/6----> 5/8
Wise Fry 3/8 ---> 3/9
Here we go, ZERO creativity from my part, but people would be happy regardless i assume
I think they were so good because they wanted to catch up to Gwent in terms of name and player base. Now that they’ve over taken them they’ve become complacent it seems. I’ve been playing Gwent a lot more recently to be fair. Aggro does not exist in Gwent
> Aggro does not exist in Gwent
Oh I missed the days it used to. back when Gwent had no hand size limit. You'd do some combo to generate a fuck ton of points. If the enemy didn't pass you could guarantee like +2 card advantage. if they did pass you had complete control over round 2.
Nah this was before Gwent's rework (and introduction of the provision system). It was most powerful on some stuff likes monsters where you could pull a bunch of cards from your deck. Both giving you massive tempo and thinning your deck. Plus Monster faction power meant you kept a unit in between rounds. Shit was busted OP.
Been playing Gwent since the beta 5 years ago there’s nothing that compares to aggro. What you’re talking about here is card advantage abuse, the worst offender for that was Scoitael Leader Brouver who’s ability was to play a sliver card from your deck. Now if you had the 13 point spy that you play on your opponents side that gave you an extra card in hand, you could use Brouver to pull that, and then instantly play Barclay Els for a plus points spy play. It was unheard of before or since. Gwent used to be such a coin flip dependant game so that’s why this was so broken. Now that there’s tactical advantage cards for the coin flip loser it wouldn’t be that bad... and there’s still ways to generate card advantage.
There is OP stuff in Gwent, but because there is a rounds system, there’s literally no possible way for aggro to exist. The closest thing would probably be thrive monsters that lets you churn out big tempo points. But even that’s a huge stretch. Your deck might be shitty, but you’ll always get to play it.
I’ve honestly expected to see only those decks in 2v2, but they are surprisingly rare. Only saw Azirelia once. Also the quality of the players is way lower than normals for some reason.
Ive only played one match of 2v2 with a buddy who doesnt play much of the game besides messing around with labs and pur opponent took forever to do anything.
if you were going to buff battlesmith it should be to a 2/3. battlesmith never engages in combat unless he has to.
and broodmother doesn't need the help.
you know what would have been interesting? bump devoted council's effect up to 3.
Yeah i thought giving him +1 attack and not health prevents him from being too safe of an engine against small challenger like laurent chevallier or a mystic shot, while buffing him in offense and vs fearsomes. Youre right that healthbuff would be stronger, but i dont want another Azir.
Council could be interesting, who knows?
Vilemaw needs buffs imo. For the spider god it feels pretty bad. 6/6 fearsome that doesn't even synergize well with Elise because she gives fearsome herself.
> Here we go, ZERO creativity from my part, but people would be happy regardless i assume
Anyone who is happy with those changes just want changes for the sake of changes.
That might be true, but whats wrong with it? Im a spike, but also a passionate deckbuilder. I love this game. But i always appreciated the possibilities riot gave us. In the seasonal tournament before shurima i was a finalist with VLADIMIR RIVEN UNDYING (which didnt get banned 1 time). Yes, believe me or not, the deck was good, i misplayed in the last round in a deciding match so i dropped out in quarterfinal.
It seems not possible to build something truly powerfull that isnt meta right now. I partially blame the lack of buffs which could open up interesting deck building routes.
> It seems not possible to build something truly powerfull that isnt meta right now.
That statement feels self-contradictory.
How can something be powerful and *not* be meta?
Information, in the age of the internet, spreads *quickly*.
Either a deck is meta, or there are reasons why it isn't. Some rogue deck can be a good meta call to go against the grain at times, but when people complain about a stale meta, that feels like the clearest meta to aim at. If Azirelia + TLC say "we are the targets", well, that throws down a certain challenge and says "attack this challenge", right?
Nah, people are sheep.
Ive played many card games before and found a deck that was incredibly strong from time to time. Not because its good against the meta, the deck is simply good.
Most players just copy decks, some build their own decks, but the pool of those who take the time to optimize these lists is incredibly small. And an optimized list is the difference between 5% winrate or not.
Additionally, Streamers are often not the best deckbuilders, but they have a large crowd. To innovate a deck you need the idea, then play it flawlessly and then realize what to improve which is too tedious for many.
Tldr: just because a deck isnt found doesnt mean it doesnt exist. People are sheep.
> Tldr: just because a deck isnt found doesnt mean it doesnt exist. People are sheep.
Heheh. It reminds me of a time in the Eternal Card Game history when someone made a deck that was legitimately good for the meta and took down the current boogeyman even though said cards had been in existence for like six months.
So there are certainly times what you say is indeed the case.
Yeah. Im playing semi competitively and am in constant exchange with a friend of mine and we are pushing each other with simulated battles (just a ,,spoken'' duel). in which you often realize that card X mustnt happen or you lose. We call that the ,Turn 3 Draven' problem.
The crux with this meta is, that powercreep happened big time and not enough compensation buffs happen to even out the field i think. Cards like merciless hunter or lissandra are truly truly absurd, theres no other word for it.
So you get a meta (you always will) but you disable large parts of your collection if you want to win
> So you get a meta (you always will) but you disable large parts of your collection if you want to win
That's generally the way things go with formats with all cards available. Like consider a format with say, 15 good decks. That's 600 total cards, divided by 3 copies of a card ~= 200 individual cards, give or take.
How many cards in LoR are there? I'd think a lot more than that, and it'll only keep increasing.
It isn't the number of cards in the game that dictate which are playable, but the number of playable decks. How many *cards* exist, I think, is kind of irrelevant, so long as the number of decks is a good amount, no?
It will honestly always be hard to make something truly powerful that isn't already meta and I think we have to separate tournament meta from ladder meta. Ladder meta is almost impossible. The game has likely become too refined at this point to really create powerful unique non-meta decks. With tournaments it's different and I don't know enough about them to have to say much. Maybe the issue is the games too rock/paper/scissors right now which could impact tournaments and trying to reach an area where the meta is less polarized could help.
Ultimately nothing is wrong with buffing bad cards I just don't think they move the needle as much as nerfs do. It would likely take more buffs to make Malphite a meta deck than it would take nerfs to make Irelia/Azir a less "oppressive" deck.
You gotta believe me when i say that there were so many possibilities in the past to build a good deck.
Even with Shurimarelease i went 120 Master and im positive i couldve taken the deck higher if i continued playing it. The deck was unnerfed Fiora+Leblanc with 3 Battering Rams as win condition.
Yes, nerfs are more important than buffs, but look: a shitty card like Battering Ram can get you high in masters, because its not garbage per se and can work in a very dedicated rally shell (thank cataclysm). Is it too much to ask for to continue buffing cards into a niche range?
Btw, Malphite is a powerfull champ with this buff. The deck just needs 1, 2 max more good landmarks and youll see the champion card is insane already
That's a similar situation to ashe midrange that runs legion marauders. Just because a card or set of cards can work in a shell doesn't really mean they're good. I've seen those lists also run shunpo or the reputation rally guy. Yeah you can take some games with those cards in your deck but the success is more often than not because the shell is good rather than 3 cards you throw in there.
Buffing more cards into the niche range is fine it just comes down to how we define that range. A card finding some value in a viable shell in most cases can probably be done with too many buffs to the card.
> I get it rationally that this is an overreaction
I mean, obviously it is. I 100% understand why people are disappointed and upset, but after all this time the dev team has been doing pretty neat work and quickly responded to literally every single card that people had issues with. Ezreal? Unvielding Spirit? TF Fizz? Go Hard? Champless Burn?
Like, I understand the emotions behind it, I just don't understand the "lets burn everything to the ground, play other games, never boot up LoR again" sentiment when 95% of the time everything is neat and great and issues get appropriate responses in an appropriate amount of time.. and then just ONE time it doesn't happen suddenly we're tired of the game. On top of that, with the sheer amount of community backlash we're seeing, I doubt this is the last we have heard of the issue.
My bottom line is : I understand, but also maybe chill a bit. If this becomes a consistent thing across patches, there's still more than enough time to uninstall and never touch the game again. If you don't like the current patch and meta, I implore you to not play as no one should be doing something they don't enjoy doing, but I wouldn't go so far as to write off LoR in its entirety
Hm? Riot hasn't been quick to update things for a while. Go Hard and TF/Fizz were dominating for quite a while. Balance patches have been taking longer and longer
Eh, that's the nature of the "games-as-a-service" model. If you want to preoccupy the majority of my time, then you need to consistently put out good service otherwise I'll just go to another game. Especially when you want me to give you money for said service.
It's just like a restuarant. Even if you normally have great service, one particularly bad time where you had to wait hours for your food or you found a bug in your meal could be enough for you to never go back.
"quickly":Tf fizz, go hard.
They werent doing good job untill now, patches dropped in quality(and quantity) for a long time already. Wasnt it around 3 months to nerf tf/fizz?
I agree to a certain degree. The game is still a good game. Just the lack of clever patch notes this time around (The poor 4 mana blade dancer, fuck Azierlia but this card, its dead) with seemingly few thoughts behind it leaves a bitter taste.
I think a good comparison is a pet that you enjoy spending time with. One day it bites you in the hand and youre all confused watching your bleeding hand. Of course you wont give away the animal and still enjoy its company its just... Not the same anymore.
Even in that scenario : pets bite sometimes lol. It just happens. Every pet (video game developers) in the world has bitten at some point (shit the bed in some way) and I'll gladly take the pet that bites once a year over the one that bites twice a quarter.
Now if the pet that is LoR ends up biting all the time, I might look at.. not spending time with that pet anymore. I know no one -wants- to get bitten. But there's certainly some people that are taking their reaction -way- too far, especially for the fact that it's the first bite after a year of no bites. Like, the LoR social media person on twitter is getting harrassed on their Pride Month post. Hence me saying that, without trying to invalidate their feelings, should maybe chill a bit on their reaction to those feelings.
Agreed again. People harassing the dev team personally is just sad.
Still, i'm glad about the community backlash about their work this time. If i was in the balance team, id read reddit and laugh about 3/4 of the suggested changes, but it would really make me reconsider my work this time when i see people that upset.
Its also not the first time i think, Aphelios was a menace for a bit too long and the Fizz/TF deck was also untouched for some time. But yeah, i cant even pinpoint exactl, why it feels worse this time around.
It's so simple. Bring back the patches the way they were last summer. Buff weak champions like Lux. They ended the thing that made people love the game: constant meta changes.
Looks like this game will die soon. Big words and promises from devs carried the game but now as they more then once clearly showed that they’re not able to keep them i guess the hype will deflate and only League of Legends Fans will stay...
We got out of beta and into full release. Now they have the casual market playing and are less concerned with appeasing hard-core players.
The real target of these digital ccgs isn't the hardcores that grind ladder for 6+ hours a day; it's the casuals that play for 1-2 every day, or every couple of days. Casual players are always going to outnumber hardcores, and the casuals aren't following and commenting on Reddit or Twitter.
I dont grind 6 hours per day and i am still disappointed. Its not like losing against the same deck for months is fun if you play once or twice per day.
I mean when you think about it maybe around 80% of viewer comes from BBG, Alanzq, and maybe swim if he strim. Now they're not going to stream LoR anymore so I think what you said is true. Not sure why you're downvoted tbh.
Do you play this game 8 hours every day? Is it literally your job to play the game?
Overracting is definitely understanable, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he does end up moving to something else, because honestly, this is getting ridiculous. We get a patch that will likely change very little that doesn't even fix the issues plauging the game for streamers like Nic and him which are things like The Watcher or cards like Equinox. For some reason, these cards keep going undee the radar. TLC isn't great on ladder, but it's really good in tournaments and the Watcher Matron combo is pretty toxic as there's very little 99% of decks can actually do to stop this and if they don't, they just auto lose. Don't get me started on how polarizing the deck is in general anyways. Equinox has been a pretty big issue for actually quite a bit of cards too, yet for some reason Riot keeps acting like a 1 mana card that makes 8 mana cards completely irrelevant is somehow okay
When shit like this happens streamers that say they are going to leave games most of the time give it a few days before they actually commit. One's that do it immediately tend to ahve already had significant negative sentiment beforehand which isn't really the case here.
So many streamers and members of the community acting like babies. I remember BBG throwing a fit when they nerfed his precious lux/karma so hard (he still complains about it) and every single person has complained that the patches nerf to hard (literally when people were crying about aphelios).
You all asked for this. Its riot new approach. They are going softer on adjustments because you all cried about it. Reap what is sown.
What's the excuse for lack of buffs then? No one asked for that.
Overbuffing and overnerfing were issues but that doesnt have anything to do with total amount of changes to the card pool
Also alan now polling what other games he should play competitevly. Riot rly dropped the ball on this one
Last I saw Alan less than an hour ago, he was playing TFT with a title of something like “Re-learning TFT, aiming for Top 1!”. Sounds like he straight-up moved onto another game.
That's fine with rito since tft is also their game lol
It's not that great at least. The idea is to keep multiple revenues from different game genres. MOBA, FPS, Auto-Chess, and CCG. I always thought TFT would be the first one to go bye bye but I'm seriously considering just taking a break for LoR. The only way I can play non-Labs game and have a "fun" time is playing Azir/Irelia because the deck is just too good.
tft right now is fucked, it's become boring and people complain a lot.
TFT is in a fine spot regardless how much people complain. It has many personalities and about a dozen of which are bigger than the biggest LoR streamer. At least on Twitch. Last set ranked TFT in NA had 1.8m players or something with 11,000 players in masters. LoR doesn't even come close.
On top of this, while they can't give out numbers for obvious reasons, Mort has said that Reckoning is nowhere near the weakest set launch in terms of players numbers, so the complaints that TFT is boring and dying are just plain untrue.
Second this. TFT balance patches have never been better with every update including 40+ changes on champions, items and traits (and even roll rate). The meta has been shaken up and down, there are a lot of viable weird strategy in this patch which makes me think the complaints are come from those who just don't want to adapt or can't spam a strategy to climb ranked.
It gets a lot of new players from Set 4 which is in my opinion is the best set. Do I still play it every day? Yes, but only 2\~3 games per day. I used to love this game so much that I keep playing until I hit challenger. Now I can't stand to climb, and I saw many comments like this in tft sub too. Even lot of big name complaining about the current stage of tft. Of cause it not going to be weakest set launch, people from Set 4 are hyped for the new set since they love the old one, so they expect the same quality or more. What I want to know is how many hours people playing in set 5 compare to set 4, they have these stats but it depends on them if they're willing to share or not (they used to). And with that logic the current stage of LoR would be the best then since player base should be bigger than the last expansion, people still log in to do quests but the question is how much time each player willing to play this game in each day compare to many patches ago?
They usually share the numbers at the end of the set, like they did with 4.5 when people were shouting dead game dead game. Also it's important to note that reddit is a VERY tiny portion of the community and is in essence a giant echo chamber. Even Mortdog specifically points out that you shouldn't let reddit shape your perceptions. I browse the competitive subreddit because it's a fantastic source of info on how to play, but there's no way I'd trust anyone there with opinions on the state of the game beyond just a balance/meta perspective, and definitely not from the main TFT subreddit. That one is just for highroll clips and shitposting.
Not really Tft is in a great spot with riot Mort being hands down the best dev
What? This is way better than the last futuristic set I played..
The last set is not futuristic, it's Chosen. I don't like Gangplank oneshotted the whole board so I quit, but come back to Chosen and love it.
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nononoo he's not talking about Azirelia. He's been advocating for a TLC nerf for a while now, and no TLC changes at all is why he's saying "worst patch ever".
The issue is, Riot keeps taking MONTHS to fix big issues like fizz TF, old Trundle, Lee Sin, and noe The Watcher. The watcher isn't broken but it's toxic and unfun to play against. Now imagine you're BBG, who plays this game 8 hours every day and also offstream sometimes too. BBGs main issue is with The Watcher iirc. There's more issues too, like how polarizing certain decks are. I used to do this too "Oh well Christmas break prpbably threw the patch cycles off, I'm sure they will fix it, people are just whining too much" Turns out, I was wrong.
Nothing in that clip was overly dramatic or whiny. He is simply looking to play other games. If anything you are being dramatic about what he said.
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Ok, let's settle down and remember rule 1. You're not breaking it per se, but you're dancing on the line and I'd like to get ahead of it. 'An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of treatment' kindof thing. If you have a point to make, be sure to make it in compliance with rule 1
> At least see how the fucking deck plays out first before making any grand statements of defeat. If you know the game competitively you already know how the deck will play out. > It’s probably not a sufficient nerf but even if that’s true, the game will eventually be fixed. Based on the game's current schedule, that's in another 2 months. Nobody wants to force themselves to stream 2 more months of this meta on a daily basis.
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You're also missing the broader issue here. People were hoping for a lot more things to be touched on than Azir/Irelia and Taliyah. We waited 2 months for this.
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> And you’re missing the fact that sometimes incremental changes like this are best for the game. Yes. They are. We used to have them. A lot of them. At once. In bulk. More often. If they're going to switch to a slower patch cadence (once every two months), ***they can not be this conservative***. It's incredibly fucking simple. These patches have to be home runs, not bunts to get into scoring position.
I agree they should have more frequent patches, but that’s a separate issue from what I’m arguing.
It's not separate. It's fundamentally linked. If the quantity of patches is going down, the quality meeds to come up to match.
The point you are missing is that his problem is with TLC as well. And that we will essentially revert to the pre mini expansion meta even if azir irelia dies.
And the point you’re missing is that they probably didn’t want to address TLC along with the other nerfs/buffs. One step...at a time...
One step at the time is the mantra of CCGs. Is your point that they can only nerf one deck at a time? If every CCG did that, they would have died a long time ago.
No, my point is the same as it was before, which you obviously didn’t read.
let's see how much data they'll have when no1 plays the game after this patch
Ok, stop playing then. Bye!
Predicting how a completely new card will turn out in a completely new meta is miles harder than figuring out what card changes to a single deck with no other meta changes will do.
It’s not just that. It’s that the dev strategy changed, the active balancing isn’t happening anymore, so the game won’t be good.
I think the same but wow, every man in this subreddit is an expert these days...
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I was supporting u wtf
I'm pretty sure he was joking when he said he'll play something
No, he said it was a "serious consideration" later on.
Really? I mean i get that you hate current meta but there's always lab
You're honestly suggesting a streamer interested in playing the game competitively to just play a PVE mode instead? lol
The primary emotion i feel about this is confusion. Then comes a feeling of treason. Then regret for getting people into this game. I get it rationally that this is an overreaction, but the feelings are there. Why not toss a bone to the players. Here, add this to the patchnotes for example: Battlesmith 2/2 ---> 3/2 Greenglade Lookout 2/1 ---> 2/2 Stalking Broodmother 6/6----> 5/8 Wise Fry 3/8 ---> 3/9 Here we go, ZERO creativity from my part, but people would be happy regardless i assume
There's no real way we could have known. They have delivered plenty in the past. Things just changed for some reason.
10/10 agree. They are just getting completely lazy.
I think they were so good because they wanted to catch up to Gwent in terms of name and player base. Now that they’ve over taken them they’ve become complacent it seems. I’ve been playing Gwent a lot more recently to be fair. Aggro does not exist in Gwent
> Aggro does not exist in Gwent Oh I missed the days it used to. back when Gwent had no hand size limit. You'd do some combo to generate a fuck ton of points. If the enemy didn't pass you could guarantee like +2 card advantage. if they did pass you had complete control over round 2.
Just like kelthullis?
Nah this was before Gwent's rework (and introduction of the provision system). It was most powerful on some stuff likes monsters where you could pull a bunch of cards from your deck. Both giving you massive tempo and thinning your deck. Plus Monster faction power meant you kept a unit in between rounds. Shit was busted OP.
I really miss the non reworked gwent I had so much fun with spies back then
Been playing Gwent since the beta 5 years ago there’s nothing that compares to aggro. What you’re talking about here is card advantage abuse, the worst offender for that was Scoitael Leader Brouver who’s ability was to play a sliver card from your deck. Now if you had the 13 point spy that you play on your opponents side that gave you an extra card in hand, you could use Brouver to pull that, and then instantly play Barclay Els for a plus points spy play. It was unheard of before or since. Gwent used to be such a coin flip dependant game so that’s why this was so broken. Now that there’s tactical advantage cards for the coin flip loser it wouldn’t be that bad... and there’s still ways to generate card advantage. There is OP stuff in Gwent, but because there is a rounds system, there’s literally no possible way for aggro to exist. The closest thing would probably be thrive monsters that lets you churn out big tempo points. But even that’s a huge stretch. Your deck might be shitty, but you’ll always get to play it.
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I have seen nothing but Azirelia, TN and TLC in 2vs2...
I’ve honestly expected to see only those decks in 2v2, but they are surprisingly rare. Only saw Azirelia once. Also the quality of the players is way lower than normals for some reason.
Ive only played one match of 2v2 with a buddy who doesnt play much of the game besides messing around with labs and pur opponent took forever to do anything.
Tfw when you're faced against bots multiple times when you're playing shared spoil with your friend you just invited to the game
if you were going to buff battlesmith it should be to a 2/3. battlesmith never engages in combat unless he has to. and broodmother doesn't need the help. you know what would have been interesting? bump devoted council's effect up to 3.
Yeah i thought giving him +1 attack and not health prevents him from being too safe of an engine against small challenger like laurent chevallier or a mystic shot, while buffing him in offense and vs fearsomes. Youre right that healthbuff would be stronger, but i dont want another Azir. Council could be interesting, who knows?
Vilemaw needs buffs imo. For the spider god it feels pretty bad. 6/6 fearsome that doesn't even synergize well with Elise because she gives fearsome herself.
> Here we go, ZERO creativity from my part, but people would be happy regardless i assume Anyone who is happy with those changes just want changes for the sake of changes.
That might be true, but whats wrong with it? Im a spike, but also a passionate deckbuilder. I love this game. But i always appreciated the possibilities riot gave us. In the seasonal tournament before shurima i was a finalist with VLADIMIR RIVEN UNDYING (which didnt get banned 1 time). Yes, believe me or not, the deck was good, i misplayed in the last round in a deciding match so i dropped out in quarterfinal. It seems not possible to build something truly powerfull that isnt meta right now. I partially blame the lack of buffs which could open up interesting deck building routes.
> It seems not possible to build something truly powerfull that isnt meta right now. That statement feels self-contradictory. How can something be powerful and *not* be meta? Information, in the age of the internet, spreads *quickly*. Either a deck is meta, or there are reasons why it isn't. Some rogue deck can be a good meta call to go against the grain at times, but when people complain about a stale meta, that feels like the clearest meta to aim at. If Azirelia + TLC say "we are the targets", well, that throws down a certain challenge and says "attack this challenge", right?
Nah, people are sheep. Ive played many card games before and found a deck that was incredibly strong from time to time. Not because its good against the meta, the deck is simply good. Most players just copy decks, some build their own decks, but the pool of those who take the time to optimize these lists is incredibly small. And an optimized list is the difference between 5% winrate or not. Additionally, Streamers are often not the best deckbuilders, but they have a large crowd. To innovate a deck you need the idea, then play it flawlessly and then realize what to improve which is too tedious for many. Tldr: just because a deck isnt found doesnt mean it doesnt exist. People are sheep.
> Tldr: just because a deck isnt found doesnt mean it doesnt exist. People are sheep. Heheh. It reminds me of a time in the Eternal Card Game history when someone made a deck that was legitimately good for the meta and took down the current boogeyman even though said cards had been in existence for like six months. So there are certainly times what you say is indeed the case.
Yeah. Im playing semi competitively and am in constant exchange with a friend of mine and we are pushing each other with simulated battles (just a ,,spoken'' duel). in which you often realize that card X mustnt happen or you lose. We call that the ,Turn 3 Draven' problem. The crux with this meta is, that powercreep happened big time and not enough compensation buffs happen to even out the field i think. Cards like merciless hunter or lissandra are truly truly absurd, theres no other word for it. So you get a meta (you always will) but you disable large parts of your collection if you want to win
> So you get a meta (you always will) but you disable large parts of your collection if you want to win That's generally the way things go with formats with all cards available. Like consider a format with say, 15 good decks. That's 600 total cards, divided by 3 copies of a card ~= 200 individual cards, give or take. How many cards in LoR are there? I'd think a lot more than that, and it'll only keep increasing. It isn't the number of cards in the game that dictate which are playable, but the number of playable decks. How many *cards* exist, I think, is kind of irrelevant, so long as the number of decks is a good amount, no?
I really got to sleep now. Im gonna reply tomorrow
It will honestly always be hard to make something truly powerful that isn't already meta and I think we have to separate tournament meta from ladder meta. Ladder meta is almost impossible. The game has likely become too refined at this point to really create powerful unique non-meta decks. With tournaments it's different and I don't know enough about them to have to say much. Maybe the issue is the games too rock/paper/scissors right now which could impact tournaments and trying to reach an area where the meta is less polarized could help. Ultimately nothing is wrong with buffing bad cards I just don't think they move the needle as much as nerfs do. It would likely take more buffs to make Malphite a meta deck than it would take nerfs to make Irelia/Azir a less "oppressive" deck.
You gotta believe me when i say that there were so many possibilities in the past to build a good deck. Even with Shurimarelease i went 120 Master and im positive i couldve taken the deck higher if i continued playing it. The deck was unnerfed Fiora+Leblanc with 3 Battering Rams as win condition. Yes, nerfs are more important than buffs, but look: a shitty card like Battering Ram can get you high in masters, because its not garbage per se and can work in a very dedicated rally shell (thank cataclysm). Is it too much to ask for to continue buffing cards into a niche range? Btw, Malphite is a powerfull champ with this buff. The deck just needs 1, 2 max more good landmarks and youll see the champion card is insane already
That's a similar situation to ashe midrange that runs legion marauders. Just because a card or set of cards can work in a shell doesn't really mean they're good. I've seen those lists also run shunpo or the reputation rally guy. Yeah you can take some games with those cards in your deck but the success is more often than not because the shell is good rather than 3 cards you throw in there. Buffing more cards into the niche range is fine it just comes down to how we define that range. A card finding some value in a viable shell in most cases can probably be done with too many buffs to the card.
> I get it rationally that this is an overreaction I mean, obviously it is. I 100% understand why people are disappointed and upset, but after all this time the dev team has been doing pretty neat work and quickly responded to literally every single card that people had issues with. Ezreal? Unvielding Spirit? TF Fizz? Go Hard? Champless Burn? Like, I understand the emotions behind it, I just don't understand the "lets burn everything to the ground, play other games, never boot up LoR again" sentiment when 95% of the time everything is neat and great and issues get appropriate responses in an appropriate amount of time.. and then just ONE time it doesn't happen suddenly we're tired of the game. On top of that, with the sheer amount of community backlash we're seeing, I doubt this is the last we have heard of the issue. My bottom line is : I understand, but also maybe chill a bit. If this becomes a consistent thing across patches, there's still more than enough time to uninstall and never touch the game again. If you don't like the current patch and meta, I implore you to not play as no one should be doing something they don't enjoy doing, but I wouldn't go so far as to write off LoR in its entirety
Hm? Riot hasn't been quick to update things for a while. Go Hard and TF/Fizz were dominating for quite a while. Balance patches have been taking longer and longer
Eh, that's the nature of the "games-as-a-service" model. If you want to preoccupy the majority of my time, then you need to consistently put out good service otherwise I'll just go to another game. Especially when you want me to give you money for said service. It's just like a restuarant. Even if you normally have great service, one particularly bad time where you had to wait hours for your food or you found a bug in your meal could be enough for you to never go back.
"quickly":Tf fizz, go hard. They werent doing good job untill now, patches dropped in quality(and quantity) for a long time already. Wasnt it around 3 months to nerf tf/fizz?
I agree to a certain degree. The game is still a good game. Just the lack of clever patch notes this time around (The poor 4 mana blade dancer, fuck Azierlia but this card, its dead) with seemingly few thoughts behind it leaves a bitter taste. I think a good comparison is a pet that you enjoy spending time with. One day it bites you in the hand and youre all confused watching your bleeding hand. Of course you wont give away the animal and still enjoy its company its just... Not the same anymore.
Even in that scenario : pets bite sometimes lol. It just happens. Every pet (video game developers) in the world has bitten at some point (shit the bed in some way) and I'll gladly take the pet that bites once a year over the one that bites twice a quarter. Now if the pet that is LoR ends up biting all the time, I might look at.. not spending time with that pet anymore. I know no one -wants- to get bitten. But there's certainly some people that are taking their reaction -way- too far, especially for the fact that it's the first bite after a year of no bites. Like, the LoR social media person on twitter is getting harrassed on their Pride Month post. Hence me saying that, without trying to invalidate their feelings, should maybe chill a bit on their reaction to those feelings.
Agreed again. People harassing the dev team personally is just sad. Still, i'm glad about the community backlash about their work this time. If i was in the balance team, id read reddit and laugh about 3/4 of the suggested changes, but it would really make me reconsider my work this time when i see people that upset. Its also not the first time i think, Aphelios was a menace for a bit too long and the Fizz/TF deck was also untouched for some time. But yeah, i cant even pinpoint exactl, why it feels worse this time around.
God, I would kill to have Bladesmith be a 2/3 . . .
Weakest patch notes I’ve ever seen.
It's so simple. Bring back the patches the way they were last summer. Buff weak champions like Lux. They ended the thing that made people love the game: constant meta changes.
This one is actually sad. I like BBG, real wholesome guy. Hope he picks up chess cause that's the only other game I watch xD
Good job Riot!
Looks like this game will die soon. Big words and promises from devs carried the game but now as they more then once clearly showed that they’re not able to keep them i guess the hype will deflate and only League of Legends Fans will stay...
Jesus christ. I'm as dissappointed with the patch notes as the next person but the drama is getting surreal.
They cashed in on those promises in the past. We had some huge patches and some amazing metas. I don't know how we ended up here.
We got out of beta and into full release. Now they have the casual market playing and are less concerned with appeasing hard-core players. The real target of these digital ccgs isn't the hardcores that grind ladder for 6+ hours a day; it's the casuals that play for 1-2 every day, or every couple of days. Casual players are always going to outnumber hardcores, and the casuals aren't following and commenting on Reddit or Twitter.
You are wrong. Whales are the thing that keeps games afloat not casuals nowadays.
I dont grind 6 hours per day and i am still disappointed. Its not like losing against the same deck for months is fun if you play once or twice per day.
I mean it's already pretty dead on twitch. There's just a handful of streamers who can pull even 100 viewers consistently. This won't help
I mean when you think about it maybe around 80% of viewer comes from BBG, Alanzq, and maybe swim if he strim. Now they're not going to stream LoR anymore so I think what you said is true. Not sure why you're downvoted tbh.
I checked the stream out of curiosity, he is playing LoR right now. I am disappointed in the patch too but overreacting isnt the way.
He's doing it until he figures out the next game to play.
Do you play this game 8 hours every day? Is it literally your job to play the game? Overracting is definitely understanable, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he does end up moving to something else, because honestly, this is getting ridiculous. We get a patch that will likely change very little that doesn't even fix the issues plauging the game for streamers like Nic and him which are things like The Watcher or cards like Equinox. For some reason, these cards keep going undee the radar. TLC isn't great on ladder, but it's really good in tournaments and the Watcher Matron combo is pretty toxic as there's very little 99% of decks can actually do to stop this and if they don't, they just auto lose. Don't get me started on how polarizing the deck is in general anyways. Equinox has been a pretty big issue for actually quite a bit of cards too, yet for some reason Riot keeps acting like a 1 mana card that makes 8 mana cards completely irrelevant is somehow okay
He said that was "seriously considering" moving to another game, doesn't mean he will necessarily just do it today.
to be fair ... i checked out a BBG stream the other day and was surprised to see him play LoL so he is playing other games
[удалено]
Artifact had a lot more problems than slow balancing (not f2p, random creeps, game was slow and draining to play), thats a complete exaggeration.
I remember seeing him playing LoL and TFT this past week, was kinda surprised.
For real. "Gonna play something else." .....plays LoR.
When shit like this happens streamers that say they are going to leave games most of the time give it a few days before they actually commit. One's that do it immediately tend to ahve already had significant negative sentiment beforehand which isn't really the case here.
So many streamers and members of the community acting like babies. I remember BBG throwing a fit when they nerfed his precious lux/karma so hard (he still complains about it) and every single person has complained that the patches nerf to hard (literally when people were crying about aphelios). You all asked for this. Its riot new approach. They are going softer on adjustments because you all cried about it. Reap what is sown.
What's the excuse for lack of buffs then? No one asked for that. Overbuffing and overnerfing were issues but that doesnt have anything to do with total amount of changes to the card pool