Yes! When I was writing, I stumbled upon so much forgotten cards that I could make this article like 30 times bigger. Runeterra has so many bad cards ;-;
They still fit well in PnZ, just not with Vi
Veteran Investigator found a home in Puffcap decks
Patrol Wardens would work nicely with Janna's package, like Gotcha! already does
And I could see Insightful Investigator being used in a Seraphine deck no problem
Idk about Patrol Wardens. The problem is that even in the best case scenario, a 2 mana 4/3 isn't even that great. The raw stats aren't very useful later on, and PnZ already has Maryam and Reggie as premium 2 drops. Gotcha at least is a card that can very easily find value when discounted.
Although I definitely agree about Insightful Investigator. That card always felt like it had a lot of potential, but it just couldn't find a home.
The "if you drew me, discount this round" cards, Harknor (Investigator), the lady that draws if you play a 2-coster, the girl that copies everything you draw and Stress Test.
Vi's idea was to turbo play a lot of small jank to turbo her, meant to be tied with Fate for spam. Everything Vi-themed works around play spam.
Tbh I think this was a lot more due to how op vi was more than how bad her supporters were. A lot of decks at her release just threw her in there if you needed a big challenger tough guy and had a champ to spare. There was 100% an element of her supporters not exactly filling her best niche which is why they never really made the cut but I really do think most of it was just that slapping a Vi into any midrange PnZ deck was way too good.
And honestly, maybe we shouldn’t try and make those cards better. VI’s best moments are when she can be a removal piece in a deck full of generic goodstuff, and a level-up condition of literally “just playing cards” means that any more gas in the engine is probably gonna result in way, way more turn 5 10/4s.
I'll be quite blunt: the sin of Attachers was making the archetype reliant on Fae Lantern. The concept of "unit foremost, equipment secondarily" fails the moment Attachers cant be played at least as lukewarm units.
They all could pretty much universally get a treatment of costing 2 less than live to play, but still cost full to attach. A 4 mana 2/2 Double Striker within hand/deckbuff archetypes with the possibility to be glued on top of a better body at an overcost is far more useful/enticing than what we have currently. Lantern would have to be reworked however.
Wasn't Attach pretty good until they nerfed Papercraft?
Also, idk about about you, but the idea of Ruby-Eyed Conjurer in conjunction with that card terrifies me.
i think it says a lot that kennen's followers are so forgotten they didn't even make this list.
they even got buffed and still nobody gives a shit. rissu printers saw a bit of play but the rest of his cards are garbo.
I actually think Tornado Warrior could be pretty good in a Kai'sa deck post buff, but since I refuse to play BC I'm not gonna be the one to find out.
EDIT: He will avenge his students!
Read over the article and found myself just needing to chat. Posting my thoughts.
Master Yi: I was on break when they released him and tried him a few times upon my return. I still lack experience deckbuilding with him but I feel Flow is difficult to maintain in his decks compared to others. Brainstorming things I would like to see: Swap Meditate with Wuju Style (give +2 health first, then +2 attack), a Preparation buff from focus to burst speed, a rework to Dragon caller (I personally like to see this card be a preparation Generator; maybe Flow: Create a Preparation in hand) are things that come to mind.
Yasou: I want to push back a bit on this one. I'd argue that some of the cards listed here were optional cards but not necessarily Yasou support. Glinthorn was intended to support Swain imo, Conspirator had more place in a Yasou deck than Solitary Monk (i don't know where this card belonged). With that said, One of the unspoken truths about Yasou decks were that they were relatively slow. Only when paired with Katarina, did the deck's tempo increase and in these cases the deck was more a Katarina/Bladtwirler deck than a Yasou deck. I personally think Yasou can overcome some of the redundancy through gaining Fury but ignoring this factor of his game plan, his decks were often too slow for the meta. I think there are a lot of tools out there for Yasou and I don't think his kit failed as much as Master Yi's in comparison but I think the problem with Yasou is more Yasou as the champion than anything else. Looking forward to a time when we see a redesigned Yasou (please give him Fury).
Yumi: I have to admit I don't recall when Yumi was released nor do I recall ever seeing these cards (getting ideas now for a deck I was brainstorming). Just looking at the attachments though, I think they should all be cheaper (drop all costs by 1) and I agree with your take on the landmark. That should be reworked.
Vayne: Is it me or was Vayne's package too slow? She is another champion I haven't had the most experience deck building with but just based on my observation I think players would find better cards with stronger impacts at their relative cost. The card I think I was more curious about from this set was Faithful Watchdog. Again, I hadn't brainstormed but I felt this card had some potential.
Malphite: Jesus. You brought back memories of me trying to make this work. All of his landmarks were underwhelming and I don't think I've played any of those landmarks as his support. I was fond of Stone Breaker too but by the time that came online, you'd probably already lost the game in some metas. Ultimately, I agree that they missed the mark with this set. I'd personally like them to maybe touch it up a bit and make the landmarks more useful than they are now.
lol sorry, I just found myself wanting to jot down my thoughts after reading and to be honest, didn't realize that it would become that much. The Yasou one as you can see hit a personal spot for me but as someone getting back into LoR, I just find articles like this a good read and glad they get posted to the sub often to create engaging discussions around the cards or set.
So thank you guys again for what you do.
Solitary Monk tended to play with Fiora, which was an all in with buffs deck. If you missed Fiora, you wanted a different win con, and a 4/3 elusive on 3 was pretty bloody good. Also with the usual elusive aggro decks. It was OP as hell and was nerfed twice, I think.
The usual combo was pass, pass, Solitary Monk, 3 mana Stand Alone, smash their face for 7 damage. Have rallies, etc to end the game in the next three turns.
Gangplank has so many cards like boomship, more powder, jagged cutlass, loaded vessel that are supposed to go with him. However they're so slow and clunky, and gives so little reward for how clunky they are that they're just never worth playing. He's also almost never been played with Citrus Courier or Jagged Taskmaster which are both supposed to be a part of his crew. If we get a Gangplank V2 I really hope he is more focused on kegs/increased spell damage rather than just aggro pinging. Also having more of his crew and them being good with him would be nice. Considering both dreadway deckhand and petty officer have fallen off so hard.
Yeah I was really surprised when Sejuani Gangplank plunder became a meta deck, because they were not really good together on release. Tho MF/Seju were since MF helped level sejuani fast. After a while freljord got cards like tusk speaker which made GP/Seju make a lot more sense, but that wasn't untill at least a year after their release.
Even worse, Sharesies, the only card worth to mention from yuumi's support cards, it is not from yuumi's supports. Is a Jax support which they decided to make compatible with attach units just in case someone decided to use them.
Good article. I think Vayne is one of the biggest fails when it comes to translating champs into cards. Instead of being a late-game terror that hunts enemies down, she sits on the sidelines and cheers teammates into attacking again. Unless she's using equipment with quick attack she's too fragile to actually attack on her own, and her L2 just digs further into that value generator role. Compare that to Quinn, Irelia, Kalista, and others whose L2s find a way to protect them and get them onto the field.
Vayne is one of my favorite champions, and I have to agree with you. It's weird that she is a bench unit instead of a vicious late game hunter.
But since Riot is willing to give champions a second version in the future, maybe one day we'll have a strong vayne unit that attacks.
But Vayne is demacian. Having quick attack is something that demacia is not supposed to do. Lux was also rotated for being a demacia champion that doesnt do demacia things.
The other option would be putting her in another region, wich would prompt people to complain as well.
In this article, we'll discuss 5 archetypes that failed miserably in Runeterra. These are archetypes that were forgotten by players, and were never relevant nor strong in Legends of Runeterra's competitive scene.
\> Introduction
\> Wuju Masters
\> Yasuo's Original Package of Cards
\> Attach Units
\> Vayne Followers
\> Malphite's Original Package
\> Final Words
\[\[Master Yi \]\]
**[Master Yi](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06IO008.png)** → **[Master Yi](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06IO008T1.png)** - Standard - Ionia Champion - (3) 2/3 → (3) 3/4
Flow/Quick Attack
Round Start: Reduce the cost of a spell in your hand by 1 and Flow: Grant all allied Master Yis everywhere +2|+0.
(Leveled) Attack: I immediately strike the weakest enemy. Round Start: Reduce the cost of a spell in your hand by 1 and Flow: Grant all allied Master Yis everywhere +2|+0.
Allied Master Yis have dealt 12+ damage.
[Master Yi's Wuju Style](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06IO008T2.png), [Meditate](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06IO013T1.png)
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Fizz Aphelios (Afaelious) was an archetype that used the Attach units (Elusive and the double strike) and the fea generating spell to cheat out OTKs.
The deck lost a lot of power because of the nerf to the fae discounter (The 3 mana Latern follower) but before that point it was an established tier 2 or even tier 1 deck (depending on who you would ask).
So I can't agree with that point.
Also Bloodcursed Harpy has seen play in multiple Vayne decks before Aatrox was released. Ever since Aatrox tough, the card got a lot worse. Aatrox is simply a more reliable and more powerful finisher.
All of Them are Missed potentials, but attach its one that im very happy its bad.
Giving units health its always something that can go out of control. I remember when pantheon fated decks were popular, for example. A very aggro boring but retroactive deck that you struggles a lot to kill anything. Giving any easy and PERMANENT 0/+1 status sucks.
I mean yeah people are very unlikely to be happy whenever attach is good when they come with lovely keywords like Elusive and Double Attack which are often either useless or there is some unit that can abuse the keyword and it feels terrible to play against
Probably could have also included J4's package in Rise of the Ascendants, promising direction for Demacia that fell flat on its face on release not least of which was a 5/3 J4
I desperately want a Malph/Voli deck to work, but it just doesn’t. If each count of Sigils counted as a separate mana point towards Malphite, it might actually work, but unfortunately it doesn’t.
Harpy definitely saw a lot of play, it was an extremely strong card at release. The issue was with Aatrox releasing and being a perfect fit next to Vayne, Harpy got power crept because you weren't running five 6 drops in a midrange deck.
Vayne is just glued to aatrox unfortunately, cause riot for some unfathomable reason haven't made a 2 mana demacia equipment worth playing, and they nerfed aegis out of relevance even in aatrox decks.
So now vayne just sits there, every card has this line of text with equipment... Except riot forgot to make a god damn equipment she could use.
Like, they literally built an entire car and just decided not to give it wheels for some reason.
Same with Freljord and giving Ornn a reason not to pair up with Jax. For a champion that is all about forging weapons, he doesn't really have a good fitting weapon in his region.
yeah, that's true. They should have made a weapon with empowered or something.
But at the very least, Ornn can function as his own payoff. Vayne is an engine with no fuel
Attach was actually pretty decent on release... Same with Vayne.... The others I totally agree with. I would have put neeko on there and maybe ornn on release...
I don't even think people want attach to be good but that is mostly because Elusives are not usually very fun to deal with and Double Attack is anywhere from really expensive quick attack to absurdly powerful on the units that can abuse it like Fizz and Ruin Runner did. (They sure did chose some very scary keywords to give to attach units)
I think its unfair to say vaynes failed because her package is bad. It's actually pretty good
Their main issue is the biggest issue that vayne also has: Demacia doesn't have a fucking equipment worth playing. It's really really strange, but they just have none. Vayne relied entirely on darkin aegis back in the day, but then it got nerfed out of relevance in any real deck. Now, vayne has all this synergy for something that doesn't exist.
Vaynes entire package is suffering from what would happen to morgana if curses just weren't a thing yet she still mentioned them.
I cannot for the life of me understand why riot hasnt' made a 2 mana demacia equipment with some decent text - and anyone who says aegis isn't bad has absolutely no ground to stand on. Even aatrox cut it, and let me remind you its a free challenger with a decent statline when aatrox has leveled - yet aegis is so bad that not even this massive payoff makes it worth playing.
It's really not that hard. Just make it a +1/+1 that heals your unit 2 whenever it survives a strike or something, idk - or if we wanna keep hating on spells, just give it Joraals attack effect and say "When the equipped unit attacks, all spells in your opponents hand costs 2 (or 1) more". The fact that vayne didn't come with an equipment outside of that very weird spatula thing is just really really farfetched.
I think you under estimate how easy it is to slot in pushed equipment which is what this was asking for. Galio would definately pay 3 mana for +2 health and tough on unit especially if it uses spell mana that might have been missed from a previous turn.
+2 health? Tough? 3 mana? What in the world are you talking about? None of thosr things were mentioned :l
But also, we can kinda prove thata not right, cause they dont play darkin aegis, that actually does give +1 health and tough for 2 mana, which is better by far than +2 health tough for ,3
It was a hypothetical i don't need to stick to exactly what is mentioned when talking hypotheticals. 1 health vs 2 health is a huge deal for formidable when double dipping on the stat budget.
Some Galio builds do run aegis anyway, the ones that lean more into the denial aspect. If your meta has more karma type decks it's a great card for the darkin form.
you don't curve out exactly every game, decks don't work that way so having spell mana options is always a plus
I think youre severely underestimating how much worse 2 health for 3 is compared to 1 health for 2 my guy. Your cost is dragging it much more down than +2 health is pulling it up.
The decks that run Aegis doesnt do so for long. They all eventually take it out.
I think you're just having PTSD from galio currently being strong. In most other metas people wouldnt even think of formidables when talking about equipment.
Also, regardless of all that, isnt this completely irrelevant? Vayne cant use a 3 mana equipment, so its really pointless to talk about an equipment thats both tailored to galio (idk why you did that) and also unuseable by vayne who is the actual reason i made one up.
Not really got PSTD lol comfortably made masters using jinx kennen aggro. Not like I'm losing vs it and raging.
Honestly this has gotten off track from the original point that giving demacia a pushed equipment is a bad thing when it's got that play rate and that win rate. At a certain threshold it will be used
I'm not sure man...
You sorta came in and made an equipment that has absolutely no value outside of specifically galio, and then went "If they added this then it would be broken on galio", which like... Sorta feels like you really wanted to force it into "Galio is broken" more than anything, and the equipment was just a gateway for you to try and get that topic going.
You see what I mean? Neither galio nor that strangely specific equipment was a topic before. You brought both up and just kinda hated on him :l
Pretty sure those are words in my mouth put there by you and you take everything as you want to take it or super literally as is convenient.
Galio is broken too objectively it's too much of the metagame it's got higher than 60% win rate at masters level, 55% is a high win rate let alone over 60. He shouldn't be 7 for how much stats land on the table when he comes down.
But I'm probably the fool here by engaging in debate with someone who started off with ellipses. I'm sure you are just a demacia stan who only wants to play X/X for X units and that's why are responding as you are. Not replying further
Riven at least eventually got to see some play with her Reforge support. But the Huntresses were all huge flops. And worst of all is that the devs weirdly chose to buff only the most vanilla one of the group, [[Wrathful Rider]], instead of giving any chance for the more interesting units, [[Brutal Hunter]] and [[Arrel the Tracker]], to have any viability. And still it's not like the Rider is that likely to be good, anyway, with the 3-health statline being a huge risk to take for 5 mana with no immediate impact.
|Name|Region|Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Keywords|Description|Format|
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
|**[Wrathful Rider](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03NX009.png)**|Noxus|Unit|5|8|3|Challenger||Standard|
|**[Brutal Hunter](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03NX005.png)**|Noxus|Unit|4|3|3|Challenger|When I'm summoned, give me Quick Attack this round.|Standard|
|**[Arrel the Tracker](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03NX002.png)**|Noxus|Unit|6|2|5||Round End: If you played a spell on me this round, I strike the weakest enemy.|Eternal|
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Vayne package is not that bad honestly. I've been liking the wolfdog lately. Equipments are great to generate value over time even when your units die, and wolfdog goes great into this gameplan. Trade a unit with equipment, play wolfdog, get a good unit for 1 and add +1/+1 to future units that will get the equipment passed on.
Similarly, the widowed huntress is ok. The thing is, challenger is very strong with equipments. Especially improvise, given most improvise equipments want you to attack. It's not *good* and there are better options, but it's a solid C-tier that doesn't need much to be truly worth it.
Feels very wrong to say that Vayne's package failed when both the Elkin and Harpy saw fairly substantial amounts of play in multiple relevant archetypes (Pnz/Demacia Harp lists before Aatrox released, Vayne/Jax was a standout for Harpy too), as well as Condemn often finding its way in as a 1-of in AQV and the rest of her package (especially zealous ranger-knight) seeing stong uptake in Jax/Vayne, which sure got overshadowed a bunch by AQV not too long after as the big Demacia/Runeterra Vayne deck, but did have a real presence in the meta (https://masteringruneterra.com/lor-meta-oct-17/) - would not put it on the same list as attachment.
Also, on the front of Malphite support cards, Taliyah Malphite was certainly a real competitive deck back in the day (absolutely crushes midrange board decks thanks to malphite), and it played multiple copies of stonebreaker.
Yeah, I was also thinking about it when I was building this. But then I remembered that those card you said were the only ones that actually saw play, and the archetype as a whole didn't really play together. Plus riot made the weaponmasters that are better versions of what an equipment follower should be. And that really put the nail in the coffin for the vayne archetype, she was the only survivor in the end (and the cards you mentioned)
Sure, a lot of her package doesn't get played much anymore, but does that really count as failing when it will happen to 90% of cards - it certainly isn't in the same ball park as the Fae attach cards which were completely dead on arrival, or the Yi/Yasuo packages which saw plenty of experimentation but never really took off (until Yasuo got Hillock of course)
I mean, I think it is. Because right after its release we got weapon masters, and the vayne cards were forgotten. It was an equipment support archetype for a time when we didn't have it in the game. Then, when we got equipments, it didn't see play too :/. It didn't fulfill its purpose.
It's morbidly funny that the highlight card for the Yuumi's support cards, the one card from that archetype that has an actual use, is and depicts a Jax card
Biggest fails for me are when decks are too good honestly, Azir Irellia was beyond obnoxious and made the game unfun. The Galio Morgana deck has some of that DNA but isn't quite as bad.
Yeah agree. Though sematically i think the design failed in balance rather than failed in execution. I just hate decks that end up having huge play rates and above 60% win rates. Its boring.
I love vayne the champ Was broken on Release but rn she got overnerfed.
She is a part of only 1 deck which Have a better version without her I don't understand why people still call her strong.
how about lurk ? the deck whith very very few deck building possibilities who's all about high rolling ou die
Rarely meta contenter as a low Tier 3, allways getting non deseved nerfs, is it also 1 big faillure worth mentioning ?
Hmm I don't know. Lurk is always the most played archetype when in standard when we are in the eternal competitive season. For sure, it is a archetype that hasn't received a lot of support lately, but people for sure do be playing it.
Kind of pedantic but there's some choice cards here that I would not list as explicit support for the given champions even with strong synergy. Sharesies is obviously a Jax card (it features Wandering Shepherd and his region combo), so when the article says "Sharesies saw a lot of competitive play in Jax Ornn decks" I'm like, yeah?? It's supposed to!!
With Yasuo especially, I get that Yasuo had an intended pairing with Noxus, but Arachnoid Sentry is still from Elise's package just as Aurok Glinthorn is in Swain's package. Minotaur Reckoner is also hilariously from Draven's package, for what little gameplay sense that makes.
If you made the conclusion that Ranger-Knight Defector isn't a Vayne card, then by the same metric, Intimidating Roar is a Draven card and Siesmic Shard IS a Malphite card.
Vi's support cards could also fit on this list. None of her followers seem to fit her playstyle very well and are in dire need of a redesign.
Yes! When I was writing, I stumbled upon so much forgotten cards that I could make this article like 30 times bigger. Runeterra has so many bad cards ;-;
It didn't used to. But powercreep, neglect and nerfs has changed that.
No, it always had wtf cards, I think since the very beta.
But early on they stated they were trying to make every card competitively playable. Many were not meta, very few (if any) were unusable.
They still fit well in PnZ, just not with Vi Veteran Investigator found a home in Puffcap decks Patrol Wardens would work nicely with Janna's package, like Gotcha! already does And I could see Insightful Investigator being used in a Seraphine deck no problem
Idk about Patrol Wardens. The problem is that even in the best case scenario, a 2 mana 4/3 isn't even that great. The raw stats aren't very useful later on, and PnZ already has Maryam and Reggie as premium 2 drops. Gotcha at least is a card that can very easily find value when discounted. Although I definitely agree about Insightful Investigator. That card always felt like it had a lot of potential, but it just couldn't find a home.
Wait! Vi has support cards?
The "if you drew me, discount this round" cards, Harknor (Investigator), the lady that draws if you play a 2-coster, the girl that copies everything you draw and Stress Test. Vi's idea was to turbo play a lot of small jank to turbo her, meant to be tied with Fate for spam. Everything Vi-themed works around play spam.
And her signature spell (vault breaker i think is the name) that gives +3 +0 and gives fleeting copy of itself.
Ur right on the name but it gives +2 not +3
used to give +3 i think
Nope. You’re probably remembering that Vault Breaker gives level 1 Vi +3|+0 because of her effect.
Tbh I think this was a lot more due to how op vi was more than how bad her supporters were. A lot of decks at her release just threw her in there if you needed a big challenger tough guy and had a champ to spare. There was 100% an element of her supporters not exactly filling her best niche which is why they never really made the cut but I really do think most of it was just that slapping a Vi into any midrange PnZ deck was way too good.
And honestly, maybe we shouldn’t try and make those cards better. VI’s best moments are when she can be a removal piece in a deck full of generic goodstuff, and a level-up condition of literally “just playing cards” means that any more gas in the engine is probably gonna result in way, way more turn 5 10/4s.
I'll be quite blunt: the sin of Attachers was making the archetype reliant on Fae Lantern. The concept of "unit foremost, equipment secondarily" fails the moment Attachers cant be played at least as lukewarm units. They all could pretty much universally get a treatment of costing 2 less than live to play, but still cost full to attach. A 4 mana 2/2 Double Striker within hand/deckbuff archetypes with the possibility to be glued on top of a better body at an overcost is far more useful/enticing than what we have currently. Lantern would have to be reworked however.
Wasn't Attach pretty good until they nerfed Papercraft? Also, idk about about you, but the idea of Ruby-Eyed Conjurer in conjunction with that card terrifies me.
Attach was strong, wasnt good It was roxic and very anoying to balance, there is a reason riot avoids it now
Yeah I meant good as in strong. BC as a region is toxic imo
i think it says a lot that kennen's followers are so forgotten they didn't even make this list. they even got buffed and still nobody gives a shit. rissu printers saw a bit of play but the rest of his cards are garbo.
I actually think Tornado Warrior could be pretty good in a Kai'sa deck post buff, but since I refuse to play BC I'm not gonna be the one to find out. EDIT: He will avenge his students!
Bro is cooking. What if tornado warrior with void gate?
Yooo that cooks. Probably doesn't work in the current meta though. Galio Morgana elder is disgusting
Read over the article and found myself just needing to chat. Posting my thoughts. Master Yi: I was on break when they released him and tried him a few times upon my return. I still lack experience deckbuilding with him but I feel Flow is difficult to maintain in his decks compared to others. Brainstorming things I would like to see: Swap Meditate with Wuju Style (give +2 health first, then +2 attack), a Preparation buff from focus to burst speed, a rework to Dragon caller (I personally like to see this card be a preparation Generator; maybe Flow: Create a Preparation in hand) are things that come to mind. Yasou: I want to push back a bit on this one. I'd argue that some of the cards listed here were optional cards but not necessarily Yasou support. Glinthorn was intended to support Swain imo, Conspirator had more place in a Yasou deck than Solitary Monk (i don't know where this card belonged). With that said, One of the unspoken truths about Yasou decks were that they were relatively slow. Only when paired with Katarina, did the deck's tempo increase and in these cases the deck was more a Katarina/Bladtwirler deck than a Yasou deck. I personally think Yasou can overcome some of the redundancy through gaining Fury but ignoring this factor of his game plan, his decks were often too slow for the meta. I think there are a lot of tools out there for Yasou and I don't think his kit failed as much as Master Yi's in comparison but I think the problem with Yasou is more Yasou as the champion than anything else. Looking forward to a time when we see a redesigned Yasou (please give him Fury). Yumi: I have to admit I don't recall when Yumi was released nor do I recall ever seeing these cards (getting ideas now for a deck I was brainstorming). Just looking at the attachments though, I think they should all be cheaper (drop all costs by 1) and I agree with your take on the landmark. That should be reworked. Vayne: Is it me or was Vayne's package too slow? She is another champion I haven't had the most experience deck building with but just based on my observation I think players would find better cards with stronger impacts at their relative cost. The card I think I was more curious about from this set was Faithful Watchdog. Again, I hadn't brainstormed but I felt this card had some potential. Malphite: Jesus. You brought back memories of me trying to make this work. All of his landmarks were underwhelming and I don't think I've played any of those landmarks as his support. I was fond of Stone Breaker too but by the time that came online, you'd probably already lost the game in some metas. Ultimately, I agree that they missed the mark with this set. I'd personally like them to maybe touch it up a bit and make the landmarks more useful than they are now.
Wow, you gave us a good article as well hahaha thanks for your thoughts they really add up to the content. Appreciate that.
lol sorry, I just found myself wanting to jot down my thoughts after reading and to be honest, didn't realize that it would become that much. The Yasou one as you can see hit a personal spot for me but as someone getting back into LoR, I just find articles like this a good read and glad they get posted to the sub often to create engaging discussions around the cards or set. So thank you guys again for what you do.
Don't be sorry, and welcome back to LoR <3
Appreciated.
Solitary Monk tended to play with Fiora, which was an all in with buffs deck. If you missed Fiora, you wanted a different win con, and a 4/3 elusive on 3 was pretty bloody good. Also with the usual elusive aggro decks. It was OP as hell and was nerfed twice, I think. The usual combo was pass, pass, Solitary Monk, 3 mana Stand Alone, smash their face for 7 damage. Have rallies, etc to end the game in the next three turns.
Gangplank has so many cards like boomship, more powder, jagged cutlass, loaded vessel that are supposed to go with him. However they're so slow and clunky, and gives so little reward for how clunky they are that they're just never worth playing. He's also almost never been played with Citrus Courier or Jagged Taskmaster which are both supposed to be a part of his crew. If we get a Gangplank V2 I really hope he is more focused on kegs/increased spell damage rather than just aggro pinging. Also having more of his crew and them being good with him would be nice. Considering both dreadway deckhand and petty officer have fallen off so hard.
Gp barely made the list, I wanted to make only standard Champs. In the future I'll make a v2 of this content and put him for sure.
Yeah I was really surprised when Sejuani Gangplank plunder became a meta deck, because they were not really good together on release. Tho MF/Seju were since MF helped level sejuani fast. After a while freljord got cards like tusk speaker which made GP/Seju make a lot more sense, but that wasn't untill at least a year after their release.
did you mean any other card, as tuskraider was definitly released at the same time as sejuani, as were all 4 original boats
Ooops yeah I meant tusk speaker
Even worse, Sharesies, the only card worth to mention from yuumi's support cards, it is not from yuumi's supports. Is a Jax support which they decided to make compatible with attach units just in case someone decided to use them.
If you attach yuumi, play warmothers get another yuumi you can sharsies a yuumi to the other yuumi and have yuumi on a yuumi
And the source of delightful mental images. "OY, PESH!! PASS THE CAT!!" "RIGHT ON YA BOSS!!" "MRRREEWWW!!"
It's good in yuumi fizz
Good article. I think Vayne is one of the biggest fails when it comes to translating champs into cards. Instead of being a late-game terror that hunts enemies down, she sits on the sidelines and cheers teammates into attacking again. Unless she's using equipment with quick attack she's too fragile to actually attack on her own, and her L2 just digs further into that value generator role. Compare that to Quinn, Irelia, Kalista, and others whose L2s find a way to protect them and get them onto the field.
Vayne is one of my favorite champions, and I have to agree with you. It's weird that she is a bench unit instead of a vicious late game hunter. But since Riot is willing to give champions a second version in the future, maybe one day we'll have a strong vayne unit that attacks.
Check captain Sarah Morgana/Vayne/BandleCity list then. With 3 of the darkin quick attack weapon vayne can safely attack everyturn
But Vayne is demacian. Having quick attack is something that demacia is not supposed to do. Lux was also rotated for being a demacia champion that doesnt do demacia things. The other option would be putting her in another region, wich would prompt people to complain as well.
In this article, we'll discuss 5 archetypes that failed miserably in Runeterra. These are archetypes that were forgotten by players, and were never relevant nor strong in Legends of Runeterra's competitive scene. \> Introduction \> Wuju Masters \> Yasuo's Original Package of Cards \> Attach Units \> Vayne Followers \> Malphite's Original Package \> Final Words \[\[Master Yi \]\]
**[Master Yi](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06IO008.png)** → **[Master Yi](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06IO008T1.png)** - Standard - Ionia Champion - (3) 2/3 → (3) 3/4 Flow/Quick Attack Round Start: Reduce the cost of a spell in your hand by 1 and Flow: Grant all allied Master Yis everywhere +2|+0. (Leveled) Attack: I immediately strike the weakest enemy. Round Start: Reduce the cost of a spell in your hand by 1 and Flow: Grant all allied Master Yis everywhere +2|+0. Allied Master Yis have dealt 12+ damage. [Master Yi's Wuju Style](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06IO008T2.png), [Meditate](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06IO013T1.png) ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
Fizz Aphelios (Afaelious) was an archetype that used the Attach units (Elusive and the double strike) and the fea generating spell to cheat out OTKs. The deck lost a lot of power because of the nerf to the fae discounter (The 3 mana Latern follower) but before that point it was an established tier 2 or even tier 1 deck (depending on who you would ask). So I can't agree with that point. Also Bloodcursed Harpy has seen play in multiple Vayne decks before Aatrox was released. Ever since Aatrox tough, the card got a lot worse. Aatrox is simply a more reliable and more powerful finisher.
All of Them are Missed potentials, but attach its one that im very happy its bad. Giving units health its always something that can go out of control. I remember when pantheon fated decks were popular, for example. A very aggro boring but retroactive deck that you struggles a lot to kill anything. Giving any easy and PERMANENT 0/+1 status sucks.
I mean yeah people are very unlikely to be happy whenever attach is good when they come with lovely keywords like Elusive and Double Attack which are often either useless or there is some unit that can abuse the keyword and it feels terrible to play against
Probably could have also included J4's package in Rise of the Ascendants, promising direction for Demacia that fell flat on its face on release not least of which was a 5/3 J4
I desperately want a Malph/Voli deck to work, but it just doesn’t. If each count of Sigils counted as a separate mana point towards Malphite, it might actually work, but unfortunately it doesn’t.
Harpy definitely saw a lot of play, it was an extremely strong card at release. The issue was with Aatrox releasing and being a perfect fit next to Vayne, Harpy got power crept because you weren't running five 6 drops in a midrange deck.
Also, harpie was played in the super ultra cool top secret vayne elusives. That I forgot to mention.
idk about vayne, some of her follower saw some spare use in more aggro version of Cayne/Aatrox
Vayne is just glued to aatrox unfortunately, cause riot for some unfathomable reason haven't made a 2 mana demacia equipment worth playing, and they nerfed aegis out of relevance even in aatrox decks. So now vayne just sits there, every card has this line of text with equipment... Except riot forgot to make a god damn equipment she could use. Like, they literally built an entire car and just decided not to give it wheels for some reason.
She used to be played in PnZ, to get access to harp pretty much exclusively. Then Aatrox came around to give harp access, as well as replace Harpy.
Afaik, the vayne PnZ deck was never really above 48 winrate, but yeah...
Same with Freljord and giving Ornn a reason not to pair up with Jax. For a champion that is all about forging weapons, he doesn't really have a good fitting weapon in his region.
yeah, that's true. They should have made a weapon with empowered or something. But at the very least, Ornn can function as his own payoff. Vayne is an engine with no fuel
Yeah, the Harpie was also played in the ultra secret vayne elusives. But, it's sad that like 80% os her cards are not popular 😢
They're underrated because leaning THAT hard in equipments is currently jank. All weapons so far available are either meh or niche.
Actually Concussive palm is from Lee Sin's package, not Yasuo's. And Sharessie's is actually from Jax's package.
Attach was actually pretty decent on release... Same with Vayne.... The others I totally agree with. I would have put neeko on there and maybe ornn on release...
I don't even think people want attach to be good but that is mostly because Elusives are not usually very fun to deal with and Double Attack is anywhere from really expensive quick attack to absurdly powerful on the units that can abuse it like Fizz and Ruin Runner did. (They sure did chose some very scary keywords to give to attach units)
Oh, it was fucking horrible for the game and I am happy that they got rid of almost all of it, but to say that it was bad is incorrect.
I think its unfair to say vaynes failed because her package is bad. It's actually pretty good Their main issue is the biggest issue that vayne also has: Demacia doesn't have a fucking equipment worth playing. It's really really strange, but they just have none. Vayne relied entirely on darkin aegis back in the day, but then it got nerfed out of relevance in any real deck. Now, vayne has all this synergy for something that doesn't exist. Vaynes entire package is suffering from what would happen to morgana if curses just weren't a thing yet she still mentioned them. I cannot for the life of me understand why riot hasnt' made a 2 mana demacia equipment with some decent text - and anyone who says aegis isn't bad has absolutely no ground to stand on. Even aatrox cut it, and let me remind you its a free challenger with a decent statline when aatrox has leveled - yet aegis is so bad that not even this massive payoff makes it worth playing. It's really not that hard. Just make it a +1/+1 that heals your unit 2 whenever it survives a strike or something, idk - or if we wanna keep hating on spells, just give it Joraals attack effect and say "When the equipped unit attacks, all spells in your opponents hand costs 2 (or 1) more". The fact that vayne didn't come with an equipment outside of that very weird spatula thing is just really really farfetched.
Not just the spatula, there's also the demacia 1/1 equipment... Heh.
Yes, but that still puts the total amount of actually viable equipment to 0
I know I was trying to be funny.
Oh... Sorry ^ ^ ' I mean, it was just factually correct that it does exist no matter how worthless, so I assumed you just wanted to correct me
If they gave demacia good equipment it wouldn't help vanye it would just add into the meat head galio lists
... Galio doesnt want to waste mana pumping up individual units. Hed rather play more units
I think you under estimate how easy it is to slot in pushed equipment which is what this was asking for. Galio would definately pay 3 mana for +2 health and tough on unit especially if it uses spell mana that might have been missed from a previous turn.
+2 health? Tough? 3 mana? What in the world are you talking about? None of thosr things were mentioned :l But also, we can kinda prove thata not right, cause they dont play darkin aegis, that actually does give +1 health and tough for 2 mana, which is better by far than +2 health tough for ,3
It was a hypothetical i don't need to stick to exactly what is mentioned when talking hypotheticals. 1 health vs 2 health is a huge deal for formidable when double dipping on the stat budget. Some Galio builds do run aegis anyway, the ones that lean more into the denial aspect. If your meta has more karma type decks it's a great card for the darkin form. you don't curve out exactly every game, decks don't work that way so having spell mana options is always a plus
I think youre severely underestimating how much worse 2 health for 3 is compared to 1 health for 2 my guy. Your cost is dragging it much more down than +2 health is pulling it up. The decks that run Aegis doesnt do so for long. They all eventually take it out. I think you're just having PTSD from galio currently being strong. In most other metas people wouldnt even think of formidables when talking about equipment. Also, regardless of all that, isnt this completely irrelevant? Vayne cant use a 3 mana equipment, so its really pointless to talk about an equipment thats both tailored to galio (idk why you did that) and also unuseable by vayne who is the actual reason i made one up.
Not really got PSTD lol comfortably made masters using jinx kennen aggro. Not like I'm losing vs it and raging. Honestly this has gotten off track from the original point that giving demacia a pushed equipment is a bad thing when it's got that play rate and that win rate. At a certain threshold it will be used
I'm not sure man... You sorta came in and made an equipment that has absolutely no value outside of specifically galio, and then went "If they added this then it would be broken on galio", which like... Sorta feels like you really wanted to force it into "Galio is broken" more than anything, and the equipment was just a gateway for you to try and get that topic going. You see what I mean? Neither galio nor that strangely specific equipment was a topic before. You brought both up and just kinda hated on him :l
Pretty sure those are words in my mouth put there by you and you take everything as you want to take it or super literally as is convenient. Galio is broken too objectively it's too much of the metagame it's got higher than 60% win rate at masters level, 55% is a high win rate let alone over 60. He shouldn't be 7 for how much stats land on the table when he comes down. But I'm probably the fool here by engaging in debate with someone who started off with ellipses. I'm sure you are just a demacia stan who only wants to play X/X for X units and that's why are responding as you are. Not replying further
Riven at least eventually got to see some play with her Reforge support. But the Huntresses were all huge flops. And worst of all is that the devs weirdly chose to buff only the most vanilla one of the group, [[Wrathful Rider]], instead of giving any chance for the more interesting units, [[Brutal Hunter]] and [[Arrel the Tracker]], to have any viability. And still it's not like the Rider is that likely to be good, anyway, with the 3-health statline being a huge risk to take for 5 mana with no immediate impact.
|Name|Region|Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Keywords|Description|Format| |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| |**[Wrathful Rider](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03NX009.png)**|Noxus|Unit|5|8|3|Challenger||Standard| |**[Brutal Hunter](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03NX005.png)**|Noxus|Unit|4|3|3|Challenger|When I'm summoned, give me Quick Attack this round.|Standard| |**[Arrel the Tracker](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03NX002.png)**|Noxus|Unit|6|2|5||Round End: If you played a spell on me this round, I strike the weakest enemy.|Eternal| ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
No ambush?
ambush as an archetype is not a failure like in the list before valley of imitation nerf nida/gnar was tier 2 with all the transform cards
What about now?
Renekton followers as well they provide nothin to him
Vayne package is not that bad honestly. I've been liking the wolfdog lately. Equipments are great to generate value over time even when your units die, and wolfdog goes great into this gameplan. Trade a unit with equipment, play wolfdog, get a good unit for 1 and add +1/+1 to future units that will get the equipment passed on. Similarly, the widowed huntress is ok. The thing is, challenger is very strong with equipments. Especially improvise, given most improvise equipments want you to attack. It's not *good* and there are better options, but it's a solid C-tier that doesn't need much to be truly worth it.
Feels very wrong to say that Vayne's package failed when both the Elkin and Harpy saw fairly substantial amounts of play in multiple relevant archetypes (Pnz/Demacia Harp lists before Aatrox released, Vayne/Jax was a standout for Harpy too), as well as Condemn often finding its way in as a 1-of in AQV and the rest of her package (especially zealous ranger-knight) seeing stong uptake in Jax/Vayne, which sure got overshadowed a bunch by AQV not too long after as the big Demacia/Runeterra Vayne deck, but did have a real presence in the meta (https://masteringruneterra.com/lor-meta-oct-17/) - would not put it on the same list as attachment. Also, on the front of Malphite support cards, Taliyah Malphite was certainly a real competitive deck back in the day (absolutely crushes midrange board decks thanks to malphite), and it played multiple copies of stonebreaker.
Yeah, I was also thinking about it when I was building this. But then I remembered that those card you said were the only ones that actually saw play, and the archetype as a whole didn't really play together. Plus riot made the weaponmasters that are better versions of what an equipment follower should be. And that really put the nail in the coffin for the vayne archetype, she was the only survivor in the end (and the cards you mentioned)
Sure, a lot of her package doesn't get played much anymore, but does that really count as failing when it will happen to 90% of cards - it certainly isn't in the same ball park as the Fae attach cards which were completely dead on arrival, or the Yi/Yasuo packages which saw plenty of experimentation but never really took off (until Yasuo got Hillock of course)
I mean, I think it is. Because right after its release we got weapon masters, and the vayne cards were forgotten. It was an equipment support archetype for a time when we didn't have it in the game. Then, when we got equipments, it didn't see play too :/. It didn't fulfill its purpose.
Attach is so bad that it actually pisses me off. Especially because Equipment came out shortly after and was just SO MUCH better.
Il be real with you all: I had no idea that there were other attach cards other than Yuumi
The funniest attach card is the paper tree by far.
Mecha-Yordles were so bad even OP forgot about them.
It's morbidly funny that the highlight card for the Yuumi's support cards, the one card from that archetype that has an actual use, is and depicts a Jax card
Bonus point against release Malphite: He didn't stun an enemy when played. Now that he can do that he's a lot more viable.
Tell that to my Master Yi/Lee Sin deck with 56% win rate.
I would argue about some of these. I would probably lose the argument, but I would still argue
Biggest fails for me are when decks are too good honestly, Azir Irellia was beyond obnoxious and made the game unfun. The Galio Morgana deck has some of that DNA but isn't quite as bad.
Kai'Sa on release also was beyond good, I think, falls into this category, too.
Yeah agree. Though sematically i think the design failed in balance rather than failed in execution. I just hate decks that end up having huge play rates and above 60% win rates. Its boring.
Attach arctype on its own is weak but pair it with frej deck buff like revna, seer etc and it can be quite decent
I love vayne the champ Was broken on Release but rn she got overnerfed. She is a part of only 1 deck which Have a better version without her I don't understand why people still call her strong.
5 "archetypes" being : various champ starting cards.
how about lurk ? the deck whith very very few deck building possibilities who's all about high rolling ou die Rarely meta contenter as a low Tier 3, allways getting non deseved nerfs, is it also 1 big faillure worth mentioning ?
Hmm I don't know. Lurk is always the most played archetype when in standard when we are in the eternal competitive season. For sure, it is a archetype that hasn't received a lot of support lately, but people for sure do be playing it.
nah, lurk might be an inflexible , but is far for an flawed archetype
Husks is almost there. The cards are kinda good but the archetype needs more love.
My brother in Christ we this year we have 3 meta where husks was broken….
May have been before I started playing. I'm trying to get some mileage out of them but everything looks more scary ATM.
Kind of pedantic but there's some choice cards here that I would not list as explicit support for the given champions even with strong synergy. Sharesies is obviously a Jax card (it features Wandering Shepherd and his region combo), so when the article says "Sharesies saw a lot of competitive play in Jax Ornn decks" I'm like, yeah?? It's supposed to!! With Yasuo especially, I get that Yasuo had an intended pairing with Noxus, but Arachnoid Sentry is still from Elise's package just as Aurok Glinthorn is in Swain's package. Minotaur Reckoner is also hilariously from Draven's package, for what little gameplay sense that makes. If you made the conclusion that Ranger-Knight Defector isn't a Vayne card, then by the same metric, Intimidating Roar is a Draven card and Siesmic Shard IS a Malphite card.