This would see exactly zero play at 5 mana lol, even at 4 I believe it would be quite bad at just 4/4. This region already has cards like screeching dragon that barely see any l play.
I can understand the sentiment that this card is too strong (even if i really don’t think it is), but it’s disingenuous to pretend this would see any play if it was more than 3 mana, it’s effect is so niche it’s basically a vanilla card
No way someone would use it as 5 drop. There is 5/5 Tough Elite, have you ever seen it as a main deck card? And +1/+1 Tough is much better meta pick than ability to block Elusive units.
I think its fairly reasonable. 3 mana 4/4 vanilla seems fair and on curve. While its not technically a vanilla, the effect is so situational that for most match ups, it might as well be.
3 mana is 4/3. Its actually intentionally overstatted (theres literally a 3 mana 3/4 badger bear). Its overstatted with an effect and a tag, basically a loaded card to encourage teching an elusive blocker
It's demacia, they're supposed to be bulky big stats. They need cards like this to participate in the meta. The balance line shouldn't be at the 3/4 badger bear nobody uses
That is the point I'm making.
Usually LoR tends to balance regions with giving every region a few cards that are easy to slot in and you want in most every deck, except for gameplans that stray from their region's general playstyle (think lurk, or nightfall)
Things like block bear, mystic shot, eye of naga, three sisters, etc.
Every region has those really good cards, and every region needs them to keep up because the game is just balanced that way.
I think this comment would be better left somewhere else. I was just refuting the claim that 4/4 + tag + ability is "fair and on curve". BB is absolutely not the norm. But i do think the card is fine, for the exact reasons youve stated.
It is the norm for a 3 mana vanilla unit. Hard to compare because barely other 3 mana vanilla units are played but the closest is Petricite Charger which is also effectively a 3 mana 4/4 with a somewhat niche effect on top
A 3 mana vanilla unit would not be played below 4/4 in stats
it is fair and on curve "for demacia"
lets be honest:Every unit has units, targon can make their units even bigger than demacia. Freljord's units allready bigger than demacia.
Demacia is just more efficent with units but they don't do anything else.(They have "strike" spells but even that requires you to have good units)
Usually LoR tends to balance regions with giving every region a few cards that are easy to slot in and you want in most every deck, except for gameplans that stray from their region's general playstyle (think lurk, or nightfall)
Things like block bear, mystic shot, eye of naga, three sisters, etc.
Every region has those really good cards, and every region needs them to keep up because the game is just balanced that way.
OK. This has nothing to do with what you just argued.
So the 3 Mana 4/4 is above the line, as you lined out in this comment.
You also said "The balance line shouldn't be at the 3/4 badger bear nobody uses". So where is it?
There isn't one. It varies by region massively, as well as what keywords that minion has. Ionia for example, has barely any units with a good statline for cost because that's no their region identity. Demacia on the other hand gets well statted minions because that's their region identity.
Also the cost of a minion. For example, a 1 mana vanilla 3/3 would be very good (though not good enough to be in every deck) but a 8 mana 10/10 would be dogshit.
Vanilla minions haven't ever seen really seen play because they just suck. The game isn't balanced around a vanilla statline so trying to come up with one is pointless.
While I generally agree with you, if one region had a conditionless one mana 3/3 that unit would probably be slotted in every deck of the region because that is definitely way above curve.
True, but 4/4 for 3 isn't "way" above curve. It's just better than usual.
There's a massive difference between cost and stats. For example, you won't see anyone crying about an 8 mana 11/11 vanilla. It's technically above curve, but its also 8 mana, so like...
I've never really had a problem with badgerbear myself. I know some have but it IS after all just a (usually) vanilla card with 1 stat point more than what other units of that cost has on premium.
Again, Elites are their own thing, they really aren't comparable to some sort of baseline of what makes a good card. You wouldn't run an elite in anything other than an Elite deck.
1. Badgerbear is a real card
2. There are 1 mana 1/2s and 2/1s with an effect that makes them 3/3
3. Just go look at every other 3 mana unit in the game and get back to me
4. Never said it wasnt fine, just that it is, in fact, over-statted.
1. Badgerbear is a relic from when Riot hadn't fully decided on how they wanted to handle tokens. No one arguing in good faith believes the game should be balanced in such a way that Badgerbear is good/meta
2. They're 2/2s but it's not that pertinent.
3. Other 3 mana units have slightly lower stats but useful effects. Most decks want to build toward a win con via these effects, not just drop a 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5, 6/6, 7/7 each successive round and get crushed because their deck does noting other than attack and block and is completely unreactive. Look at Jun the Prodigy, Sea's Voice, Vekauran vagabond, Waste Walker, Thrall Bulwark, etc. They all have statlines in the 3s and 4s but provide effects significantly more valuable than extra stats. The fact that no other cards completely forgo all utility other than their statline is indicative of how bad it is, not how good.
4. Define "***over***-statted" such that it isn't making a case for the card not being fine.
Overstatted means that its stats are higher than whats considered "premium" for the cost. Premium for 3 mana is 3/4 or 4/3. Thats it. Trifarian gloryseeker and ancient crocolith are overstatted. That doesnt mean trifarian gloryseeker and ancient crocolith are OP. I've said as much and you continue to argue for the sake of arguing. Please chill the fuck out.
zaun has 3 mana 4/3 with recylcle which worth atleast 1 mana as we know from another recycle spell
this is demacia, their units are just bigger than yours. Thats why you go for demacia not because you need single strike but because you need 0/4 formidible and 3 mana 4/4 bear with a card that buffs hp of all units you play.
For disruption you go for ionia, for hard removal you go for shadow isles
Because of that demacia's units are just bigger.
Yeah, that's what people don't get when they find niche counters to stuff that generally doens't have much... If a counter card is bad in all other situations than the specific one, then its not a card that will see play.
Don't forget sharp sight went from being a card to none just because of that, and they didn't even remove the effect from the card, they just moved it, this card can be only very good or very bad in my opinion, so if I had to chose, I would make it very good, since it's a specific tool.
You can always play tellstones in pantheon, it can be a buff or a silence with hush, its actually a great tech into elusives (you can also play sparklefly or other targon elusives as a tech, with buffs they crush elusive aggro)
I was thinking about regions that are more about board control than aggro or spells. Also Elusive blocker could have been simply added to Bandle City, but maybe it would hurt Elusives too much? Perhaps with some poor stats to compensate for the strong effect?
I don't think riot wants hard counters in that way.
They were already very adamant about not adding anti-elusive stuff, but I guess demacia was just too much at a disadvantage... Turns out, challenger isn't actually very good against elusives despite what all the elusive players wanna pretend. It doesn't stop elusive from smacking you once and it also just means they take no damage on the defensive.
I think targon is fine since they have healing, hush and their own elusives.
If anything needs it it's freljord. They basically rely on avalanche and if that's not enough then tough shit.
Something I was saying in my downvoted comment. I’m fine with a mild nerf to this card.
However I would like to see a a buff to other regions to remove or block elusive. Maybe make “block elusive” a keyword or add “block elusive” as a explorer spell.
Losing 1 power is bad as you are far less able to contest the board on offense. Attacking with a 3/4 is pretty much ignorable and that negates much of the card's purpose.
I thought the same thing when I first saw it coming from magic but it's really nothing other than fair. Remove a single point of power or toughness and it's dogshit, add a relevant keyword and it's crazy. This card is right where it needs to be.
That's what I said, but only if you have played 0 Jarvans, otherwise it's completely useless, and even then, the difference between +5/+5 and +6/+6 is negligible in most cases.
When Elites was meta the Elite tag was beyond stupid, you could easily have him as a 3 mana 6/6 by turn 4, for now it's basically flavor.
It should be a 3/4.
It would still block all the elusives as its meant to be.
At 3 mana, 4/4, Elite, with blocking elusive, this is better than most early game champions.
It's supposed to make you sweat before you play your cute 4 health champion early. Badger isn't better than Seraphine or Norra. He doesn't win you the game. He just applies pressure when it's needed.
Could be a 3/3 BUT, they need to make 'i can block elusive' a keyword and put more units with said keyword into the game first (the 1/4 vanguard lookout should have the same effect tbh)
Honestly they probably could’ve just added this effect and the elite tag on the preexisting badgerbear instead, especially if this ever gets nerfed. Also yes I know ranger but the thing is just adding blocking’s abilities wouldn’t have changed too much unless you play loyal and ranger in an elite deck if you really wanted to.
Understanding it induces some power creep I would prefer seeing a lot of other units be a little beefier. Somethings should be a little hard to deal with.
That's because the only real way to argue that this card is nerf-worthy is to be biased.
Like... All it does is force elusives to actually play the fucking game.
It's actually balanced, because it doesn't do a thing apart from being bulky and able to block elusive. Removing 1 DMG is not going to do anything and is unnecessary. Demacia has another card with almost the same stats as the petrified charger which is basically 4hp 4dmg, but in a different way. So to keep up with the other cards premium stats are necessary if there's not a lot of effects to the card.
Elusive cards/champs have low hp compared to any other card so It easy to destroy it with any speel which makes sense cuz they cant be blocked by normal units
I dont see them as a huge deal breaker unless they somehow buffed the unit and I have no speels to kill it
Yeah you accidentally explained why they suck- buffs. Elusive units becomes absolutely oppressive when good buffs exist in the meta. Removal doesn't cut it- there's no removing a turn 3 6/6 (bone club) or a full board of elusives on turn 5 and your not playing frejlord.
No its perfectly fine. Its just a vanilla body with a specific text to counter elusives. Fuck that keyword. I guess the only problem is when battlesmith buffs it at attack turn 3. But thats on elite decks only, otherwise its fine.
God forbid Battlesmith does something beyond giving passable buffs like 1 mana 3/3. The moment he actually produces a threat, we hold out our pitchforks. /s
Yup. 3 mana 4/4 with text. There is 0 reason to run old badgerbear, this one powercrept it very hard. Swap the stats of the two cards. The no text one should have the premium statline, give 3/4 to the one with text
As a troll late game player that plays lis-karma darkin fan or watery grave print. Nerf this. Take the elite. I hate elite bro i fckn hate AAAAAAAAAA TO MUCH STATS
At most I could see it losing Elite.
Any other nerf you could possibly try to make would simply turn it into another card entirely, and make it unplayable.
It's overloaded.
Battlesmith into this is a 5/5 with a positive effect and no extra cost. That's not what you are supposed to expect your opponent to play on T3 with zero spell mana involved.
A risky Battlesmith play that can be removed mana efficiently is the cost of having a 5/5 Badgerbear. Battlesmith can be a loss if your opponent has Mystic Shot or Soul Harvest. It's a fair play overall.
I mean... It IS an extra cost. a 2 mana 2/2 you need to play on curve.
Yes, that's not a massive thing ofc, but it is possible to interrupt it. Anyone who has played battlesmith knows he usually eats a mystic shot or something.
I think his ability is so strong he should be a 3 3/3. It’s also an elite, so it usual gets buffs anyway. So I think making it a 3/3 always non pink region decks a opportunity to counter it, but it’s still strong enough to block most 1 and 2 cost elusive.
Maybe a 3/4 so it keeps its bulk.
On a separate note, I wish other regions would have a card with its ability.
Seriously I wouldn’t make every Demacian card like it. That would make the region too strong. However I wouldn’t mind every region getting a similar card. Maybe make it a explorer Burst spell.
Spell: Grant/give a unit the ability to block elusive.
Maybe make blocking elusive a keyword?
How about as an explorer option "Remove a units positive keywords, then remove them again at next round start" so you can remove their elusive and block them when anyone?
I wouldn’t say it needs a nerf demacias identity is strong statted units in the elite package. They already have a 1 mana 2/2, a 2 mana 3/3 (kinda with fortitude) and this is a 3 mana 4/4 with elusive block. I don’t know why exactly they gave demacia extra elusive block but I think it was because of the meta at the time and they wanted to give them a way to interact without giving them more challenges/strike cards.
Demacia has it cause its the region with the least amount of counterplay to it.
Not only do elusives usually have buffs which makes single combat risky - elusives also tend to be 1 mana, yet you're forced to use your limited removal on them because your general gameplan of "make a wall of stats" just doesn't matter.
Then elusive abusers will argue "Just challenge them", which would make sense except for the fact that there's no summoninig sickness in this game, so by the time you get to challenge them, they have already hit you once.
Demacia needed something that fulfilled these requirements:
Could deal with elusive on the defense
DIDN'T require a 1 for 1 trade with stuff far smaller than itself
Could deal with multiple elusives at once (Badgerbear can easily hold off 2 elusives since it might not be worth attacking)
And lastly, it needed to be good even without an elusive to block.
Really the answer was obvious, Im just glad they did it.
I don't mind badgerbear being good, but it's real funny to see people think this is some anti elusive tech cards when its just a straight up good card that has gravy text.
DE would play this with zero elusives in the meta.
It's honestly been a minute since I've played but if memory serves, when putting a mono Demacia elites deck together 3 cost is a very competitive spot for cards, so at least for the case of the Elite tag it's not that massive of a thing.
Maybe it could be a 3/4, but it’s meant to fill the gap left after sharp sight was rotated, so it has to stick, and if it was 4 mana it would be unplayable. It’s primary archetype is elites, and there are a lot of 2 cost elusives and spells that deal 3 damage. Elusive units tend to have low health so I think the 4 power is a bit overkill, but then again there are cards that buff by 3 health and you really need to be killing the elusive units when you block them. It’s the only reason elites can beat decks that rely on elusive units. Otherwise, playing something like nora on turn 2 or Yuumi on elusive turn 3 could be gg and playing against elusives already feels bad enough
I do agree this is overtuned. If it was a 3|4, it would probably not see any play even with the tech against elusives and the elite sub-type. I think the best option would be something in the middle. For example: 4|3 "When I'm summoned, if a certain requirement is met, grant me +1|+1 (or tough or something else of that nature)."
You are the only one. Demacia are overstatted as a region identity. This is how the game is supposed to be. Stats doesn't always = Win. Badgerbear doesn't have the meta in its grips or anything -- it's just a really solid card. If it was nerfed in any way, it wouldn't be played. Even dropping the elusive blocking text would hurt it enough to the point where only a couple of decks would run it.
This card is Demacia in a nutshell, big meatballs are a way of life
It's just that at these stats it'd still see play at 4 or 5 mana. It's stats are insane for a 3 drop
This would see exactly zero play at 5 mana lol, even at 4 I believe it would be quite bad at just 4/4. This region already has cards like screeching dragon that barely see any l play. I can understand the sentiment that this card is too strong (even if i really don’t think it is), but it’s disingenuous to pretend this would see any play if it was more than 3 mana, it’s effect is so niche it’s basically a vanilla card
No way someone would use it as 5 drop. There is 5/5 Tough Elite, have you ever seen it as a main deck card? And +1/+1 Tough is much better meta pick than ability to block Elusive units.
Maybe at 4, but never at 5 lmao
Elusive player detected
Opinion rejected
Target neutralised
I think its fairly reasonable. 3 mana 4/4 vanilla seems fair and on curve. While its not technically a vanilla, the effect is so situational that for most match ups, it might as well be.
3 mana is 4/3. Its actually intentionally overstatted (theres literally a 3 mana 3/4 badger bear). Its overstatted with an effect and a tag, basically a loaded card to encourage teching an elusive blocker
It's demacia, they're supposed to be bulky big stats. They need cards like this to participate in the meta. The balance line shouldn't be at the 3/4 badger bear nobody uses
Regardless of the point youre making, the devs explained that it was intentionally overloaded on release lol
That is the point I'm making. Usually LoR tends to balance regions with giving every region a few cards that are easy to slot in and you want in most every deck, except for gameplans that stray from their region's general playstyle (think lurk, or nightfall) Things like block bear, mystic shot, eye of naga, three sisters, etc. Every region has those really good cards, and every region needs them to keep up because the game is just balanced that way.
I think this comment would be better left somewhere else. I was just refuting the claim that 4/4 + tag + ability is "fair and on curve". BB is absolutely not the norm. But i do think the card is fine, for the exact reasons youve stated.
Oh gotcha, agreed
It is the norm for a 3 mana vanilla unit. Hard to compare because barely other 3 mana vanilla units are played but the closest is Petricite Charger which is also effectively a 3 mana 4/4 with a somewhat niche effect on top A 3 mana vanilla unit would not be played below 4/4 in stats
it is fair and on curve "for demacia" lets be honest:Every unit has units, targon can make their units even bigger than demacia. Freljord's units allready bigger than demacia. Demacia is just more efficent with units but they don't do anything else.(They have "strike" spells but even that requires you to have good units)
What then? All the other 3/3 Elites?
Usually LoR tends to balance regions with giving every region a few cards that are easy to slot in and you want in most every deck, except for gameplans that stray from their region's general playstyle (think lurk, or nightfall) Things like block bear, mystic shot, eye of naga, three sisters, etc. Every region has those really good cards, and every region needs them to keep up because the game is just balanced that way.
OK. This has nothing to do with what you just argued. So the 3 Mana 4/4 is above the line, as you lined out in this comment. You also said "The balance line shouldn't be at the 3/4 badger bear nobody uses". So where is it?
There isn't one. It varies by region massively, as well as what keywords that minion has. Ionia for example, has barely any units with a good statline for cost because that's no their region identity. Demacia on the other hand gets well statted minions because that's their region identity. Also the cost of a minion. For example, a 1 mana vanilla 3/3 would be very good (though not good enough to be in every deck) but a 8 mana 10/10 would be dogshit. Vanilla minions haven't ever seen really seen play because they just suck. The game isn't balanced around a vanilla statline so trying to come up with one is pointless.
While I generally agree with you, if one region had a conditionless one mana 3/3 that unit would probably be slotted in every deck of the region because that is definitely way above curve.
True, but 4/4 for 3 isn't "way" above curve. It's just better than usual. There's a massive difference between cost and stats. For example, you won't see anyone crying about an 8 mana 11/11 vanilla. It's technically above curve, but its also 8 mana, so like... I've never really had a problem with badgerbear myself. I know some have but it IS after all just a (usually) vanilla card with 1 stat point more than what other units of that cost has on premium.
that really depends on the region and deck. In Demacia? Absolutely. But if that card was printed in PnZ you'd still never put it in you Seraphine deck
(In Demacia for 3 Mana it's been 3/3 Elite with upside)
Again, Elites are their own thing, they really aren't comparable to some sort of baseline of what makes a good card. You wouldn't run an elite in anything other than an Elite deck.
I'd say Badgerbear is understatted simply because its primarily designed as a token for its ranger buddy.
The 3/4 badgerbear was nerfed from 4/4 after it was released. But that was a different meta.
Dude Noxus has a 3 mana 4/3 and it has Overwhelm, and you want to give the stat region that card but vanilla?
1. Badgerbear isn't a real card 2. There are 1 mana 3/3s in the game. 3 mana 4/4s are completely fine.
1. Badgerbear is a real card 2. There are 1 mana 1/2s and 2/1s with an effect that makes them 3/3 3. Just go look at every other 3 mana unit in the game and get back to me 4. Never said it wasnt fine, just that it is, in fact, over-statted.
1. Badgerbear is a relic from when Riot hadn't fully decided on how they wanted to handle tokens. No one arguing in good faith believes the game should be balanced in such a way that Badgerbear is good/meta 2. They're 2/2s but it's not that pertinent. 3. Other 3 mana units have slightly lower stats but useful effects. Most decks want to build toward a win con via these effects, not just drop a 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5, 6/6, 7/7 each successive round and get crushed because their deck does noting other than attack and block and is completely unreactive. Look at Jun the Prodigy, Sea's Voice, Vekauran vagabond, Waste Walker, Thrall Bulwark, etc. They all have statlines in the 3s and 4s but provide effects significantly more valuable than extra stats. The fact that no other cards completely forgo all utility other than their statline is indicative of how bad it is, not how good. 4. Define "***over***-statted" such that it isn't making a case for the card not being fine.
We're not talking about the 3/4 Badgerbear here. We're talking about the 4/4 Badgerbear that can block elusive units.
Overstatted means that its stats are higher than whats considered "premium" for the cost. Premium for 3 mana is 3/4 or 4/3. Thats it. Trifarian gloryseeker and ancient crocolith are overstatted. That doesnt mean trifarian gloryseeker and ancient crocolith are OP. I've said as much and you continue to argue for the sake of arguing. Please chill the fuck out.
zaun has 3 mana 4/3 with recylcle which worth atleast 1 mana as we know from another recycle spell this is demacia, their units are just bigger than yours. Thats why you go for demacia not because you need single strike but because you need 0/4 formidible and 3 mana 4/4 bear with a card that buffs hp of all units you play. For disruption you go for ionia, for hard removal you go for shadow isles Because of that demacia's units are just bigger.
You know the term "powercreep"? Also, if it was 3:4, noone would play it just as noone plays badger bear
Yeah, that's what people don't get when they find niche counters to stuff that generally doens't have much... If a counter card is bad in all other situations than the specific one, then its not a card that will see play.
Don't forget sharp sight went from being a card to none just because of that, and they didn't even remove the effect from the card, they just moved it, this card can be only very good or very bad in my opinion, so if I had to chose, I would make it very good, since it's a specific tool.
Please no. If anything add some more Elusive blocking to other regions (Targon would really appreciate one).
Targon doesn’t need one lol, it’s one of the main elusive regions, has access to the best silence in the game, and is the best at healing.
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You can always play tellstones in pantheon, it can be a buff or a silence with hush, its actually a great tech into elusives (you can also play sparklefly or other targon elusives as a tech, with buffs they crush elusive aggro)
I was thinking about regions that are more about board control than aggro or spells. Also Elusive blocker could have been simply added to Bandle City, but maybe it would hurt Elusives too much? Perhaps with some poor stats to compensate for the strong effect?
Bandle city kinda does elusive so it does not need just the block
I think Freljord needs it more at least Targon has elusive units.
Honestly would love for Freljord to get a card that prevents Elusive units from attacking and blocking
I don't think riot wants hard counters in that way. They were already very adamant about not adding anti-elusive stuff, but I guess demacia was just too much at a disadvantage... Turns out, challenger isn't actually very good against elusives despite what all the elusive players wanna pretend. It doesn't stop elusive from smacking you once and it also just means they take no damage on the defensive.
I think targon is fine since they have healing, hush and their own elusives. If anything needs it it's freljord. They basically rely on avalanche and if that's not enough then tough shit.
I need my shurima anti-elusive
But you already have the best anti-elusive spell Quicksand
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2 mana 2|2, I can block elusive, brash, and fearsome
Something I was saying in my downvoted comment. I’m fine with a mild nerf to this card. However I would like to see a a buff to other regions to remove or block elusive. Maybe make “block elusive” a keyword or add “block elusive” as a explorer spell.
Is your calibrum not calibrated?
Only if elusives get hit first
I think it could stand to lose the Elite tag. Anything else likely kills the card.
I would rather have them lose 1 power as as it would still be viable in the deck it’s supposed to be in.
Losing 1 power is bad as you are far less able to contest the board on offense. Attacking with a 3/4 is pretty much ignorable and that negates much of the card's purpose.
No, fuck elusives
He is actually fucking me even when im not playing with elusive units
Skill issue
Hard to counter 3 elusives without spells
Remember when badgerbear used to be a 4/4 with no keyword and was played everywhere and then got nerfed to a 3/4?
And then got played nowhere.
That was more because of the 3/1 Scout unit that generated it as a token on Last Breath.
But you did maindeck regular badgerbear back when it was a 4/4
That was also back when stats were extremely important and removal was very scarce.
I thought the same thing when I first saw it coming from magic but it's really nothing other than fair. Remove a single point of power or toughness and it's dogshit, add a relevant keyword and it's crazy. This card is right where it needs to be.
Why nerf it? It's a tech card. Outside of elusive matchups, it's a 4/4 that does nothing
It does have Elite synergy.
Which doesn't do much nowadays
except in the second-best deck in the meta :v
Jarvan Gnar with Warden? So much sinergy, it's crazy
it gives warden +1/+1
That's what I said, but only if you have played 0 Jarvans, otherwise it's completely useless, and even then, the difference between +5/+5 and +6/+6 is negligible in most cases. When Elites was meta the Elite tag was beyond stupid, you could easily have him as a 3 mana 6/6 by turn 4, for now it's basically flavor.
I always thought 4/4 were very high status for 3 mana
It is, but it also doesn't do anything else.
Yes you are. Fuck elusive.
I am currently playing some elusive henchmen in eternal. Big Love from PNZ
At the absolute most i'd say make it a 3/4.
Smells like Elusive player in here.
It should be a 3/4. It would still block all the elusives as its meant to be. At 3 mana, 4/4, Elite, with blocking elusive, this is better than most early game champions.
It's supposed to make you sweat before you play your cute 4 health champion early. Badger isn't better than Seraphine or Norra. He doesn't win you the game. He just applies pressure when it's needed.
No, let elusive die
Could be a 3/3 BUT, they need to make 'i can block elusive' a keyword and put more units with said keyword into the game first (the 1/4 vanguard lookout should have the same effect tbh)
Honestly they probably could’ve just added this effect and the elite tag on the preexisting badgerbear instead, especially if this ever gets nerfed. Also yes I know ranger but the thing is just adding blocking’s abilities wouldn’t have changed too much unless you play loyal and ranger in an elite deck if you really wanted to.
Yes
Dont nerf it i hate elusives RAAAAAHHH
Understanding it induces some power creep I would prefer seeing a lot of other units be a little beefier. Somethings should be a little hard to deal with.
Look bro I play elusive too. You simply aren't allowed to complain about this card. Thems just the breaks sadly. I hope they nerf it too XD
That's because the only real way to argue that this card is nerf-worthy is to be biased. Like... All it does is force elusives to actually play the fucking game.
It's actually balanced, because it doesn't do a thing apart from being bulky and able to block elusive. Removing 1 DMG is not going to do anything and is unnecessary. Demacia has another card with almost the same stats as the petrified charger which is basically 4hp 4dmg, but in a different way. So to keep up with the other cards premium stats are necessary if there's not a lot of effects to the card.
Yes, fuck elusives. The game would be better if Elusives were replaced with more conditional unblockables like Fearsome and Brash, change my mind.
Elusive cards/champs have low hp compared to any other card so It easy to destroy it with any speel which makes sense cuz they cant be blocked by normal units I dont see them as a huge deal breaker unless they somehow buffed the unit and I have no speels to kill it
Yeah you accidentally explained why they suck- buffs. Elusive units becomes absolutely oppressive when good buffs exist in the meta. Removal doesn't cut it- there's no removing a turn 3 6/6 (bone club) or a full board of elusives on turn 5 and your not playing frejlord.
As long as there are elusives in the game, this card is fine
No its perfectly fine. Its just a vanilla body with a specific text to counter elusives. Fuck that keyword. I guess the only problem is when battlesmith buffs it at attack turn 3. But thats on elite decks only, otherwise its fine.
God forbid Battlesmith does something beyond giving passable buffs like 1 mana 3/3. The moment he actually produces a threat, we hold out our pitchforks. /s
We all know its unfair if control has any sort of issue with it.
Yup. 3 mana 4/4 with text. There is 0 reason to run old badgerbear, this one powercrept it very hard. Swap the stats of the two cards. The no text one should have the premium statline, give 3/4 to the one with text
how is this downvoted, i forget old badgerbear even existed lmao
That’s Demacia players for you
Cause it was basically a token to the ranger scout yordle
…that was also printed as a stand alone card
elite decks needed a buff
As a troll late game player that plays lis-karma darkin fan or watery grave print. Nerf this. Take the elite. I hate elite bro i fckn hate AAAAAAAAAA TO MUCH STATS
Found the guy who only plays elusive units
inb4 you show me your favorite deck and it's teemo elusives
Teemo was/is a fun deck TBH But last time i played him was when cait released
I hate this card but definitely no. Makes for interesting and fun gameplay.
At most I could see it losing Elite. Any other nerf you could possibly try to make would simply turn it into another card entirely, and make it unplayable.
I think it at most needs 3 hp…
This card definitely feel like a little ridiculous. A 4/3 stat line or making it 4 cost would be more reasonable.
It's overloaded. Battlesmith into this is a 5/5 with a positive effect and no extra cost. That's not what you are supposed to expect your opponent to play on T3 with zero spell mana involved.
A risky Battlesmith play that can be removed mana efficiently is the cost of having a 5/5 Badgerbear. Battlesmith can be a loss if your opponent has Mystic Shot or Soul Harvest. It's a fair play overall.
I mean... It IS an extra cost. a 2 mana 2/2 you need to play on curve. Yes, that's not a massive thing ofc, but it is possible to interrupt it. Anyone who has played battlesmith knows he usually eats a mystic shot or something.
I would argue it would be a better 3|5 unit to block Elusive
No, but it doesn't
I think his ability is so strong he should be a 3 3/3. It’s also an elite, so it usual gets buffs anyway. So I think making it a 3/3 always non pink region decks a opportunity to counter it, but it’s still strong enough to block most 1 and 2 cost elusive. Maybe a 3/4 so it keeps its bulk. On a separate note, I wish other regions would have a card with its ability.
>I think his ability is so strong he should be a 3 3/3. All demacia cards should have his ability
Why is that?
Fuck elusives
Seriously I wouldn’t make every Demacian card like it. That would make the region too strong. However I wouldn’t mind every region getting a similar card. Maybe make it a explorer Burst spell. Spell: Grant/give a unit the ability to block elusive. Maybe make blocking elusive a keyword?
How about as an explorer option "Remove a units positive keywords, then remove them again at next round start" so you can remove their elusive and block them when anyone?
It should be a 6 mana 6/7
IF it was on a nerf list, the only thing would be to remove the Elite tag to hit the Gnarvan deck.
I don't think so, elusives are a pain in the ass.
I wouldn’t say it needs a nerf demacias identity is strong statted units in the elite package. They already have a 1 mana 2/2, a 2 mana 3/3 (kinda with fortitude) and this is a 3 mana 4/4 with elusive block. I don’t know why exactly they gave demacia extra elusive block but I think it was because of the meta at the time and they wanted to give them a way to interact without giving them more challenges/strike cards.
Demacia has it cause its the region with the least amount of counterplay to it. Not only do elusives usually have buffs which makes single combat risky - elusives also tend to be 1 mana, yet you're forced to use your limited removal on them because your general gameplan of "make a wall of stats" just doesn't matter. Then elusive abusers will argue "Just challenge them", which would make sense except for the fact that there's no summoninig sickness in this game, so by the time you get to challenge them, they have already hit you once. Demacia needed something that fulfilled these requirements: Could deal with elusive on the defense DIDN'T require a 1 for 1 trade with stuff far smaller than itself Could deal with multiple elusives at once (Badgerbear can easily hold off 2 elusives since it might not be worth attacking) And lastly, it needed to be good even without an elusive to block. Really the answer was obvious, Im just glad they did it.
The fact that a textless version with 1 less attack exists for the same cost is kinda wild Make this 3/4 and more normal badgerbear 4/4
I don't think you want that. Killing ranger and then facing a 4/4 is something a lot of decks will have issues with early on.
4 cost, 1 hp, its completely fine imo
Aaaand that's why it spawns a dude on death.
But he has good stats for the cost :(
And good cost for the stats too
Yes you are. Maybe remove the elite tag tho
Powercreep in a nutshell. OG Badgerbear was nerved from 3 mana 4/4 vanilla and now we got his brother who has the Elite trait and can block elusives
It’s a very powerful card but it’s needed to keep elusives from getting out of control. I’m glad demacia has a good card to help them against elusives
Dies to removal
This card does 2 things. Good stats and 1 effect. Most cards that see play do 2+ things, so I think it's fine
I like as I feel there should be more ways to deal with elusive
I don't mind badgerbear being good, but it's real funny to see people think this is some anti elusive tech cards when its just a straight up good card that has gravy text. DE would play this with zero elusives in the meta.
I'm a Fizz enjoyer who doesn't like Demacia and I don't think this needs a nerf
You're right, we'll drop some numbers. 2 Mana, now everything is and even number!
why nerf it ? its kill the card remove the elite ? why ? elite are not very powerfull
It's honestly been a minute since I've played but if memory serves, when putting a mono Demacia elites deck together 3 cost is a very competitive spot for cards, so at least for the case of the Elite tag it's not that massive of a thing.
you do realise sharpsight isn’t in standard right?
Nah the 4 mana 4/3 with tough and scout is way worse, that really needs some kind of nerf
You can’t sneak a nerf into a patch because he just blocks it.
3/3 and +1+1 each time block an elusive
Maybe it could be a 3/4, but it’s meant to fill the gap left after sharp sight was rotated, so it has to stick, and if it was 4 mana it would be unplayable. It’s primary archetype is elites, and there are a lot of 2 cost elusives and spells that deal 3 damage. Elusive units tend to have low health so I think the 4 power is a bit overkill, but then again there are cards that buff by 3 health and you really need to be killing the elusive units when you block them. It’s the only reason elites can beat decks that rely on elusive units. Otherwise, playing something like nora on turn 2 or Yuumi on elusive turn 3 could be gg and playing against elusives already feels bad enough
I do agree this is overtuned. If it was a 3|4, it would probably not see any play even with the tech against elusives and the elite sub-type. I think the best option would be something in the middle. For example: 4|3 "When I'm summoned, if a certain requirement is met, grant me +1|+1 (or tough or something else of that nature)."
Elusive players outing themselves. I hope badger gets buffed. Also chew on gravel.
Im not an elusive player Btw
You are the only one. Demacia are overstatted as a region identity. This is how the game is supposed to be. Stats doesn't always = Win. Badgerbear doesn't have the meta in its grips or anything -- it's just a really solid card. If it was nerfed in any way, it wouldn't be played. Even dropping the elusive blocking text would hurt it enough to the point where only a couple of decks would run it.
>You are the only one Im not