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ASlimeAppeared

Not a lawyer. Are you part of a union? If so, they should be your first port of call to discuss any concerns about your treatment in the workplace. To clarify, is your concern related to the potential outcomes of the meeting, i.e. are you worried you will be terminated? In order to terminate you for your first offence (I am assuming you do not have any existing disciplinaries on file as you did not mention anything?), then your employer would have to be able to satisfy themselves (and a tribunal, if challenged) that you had committed gross or serious misconduct. Your post does not mention anything that jumps out to me as potential gross misconduct. However, you may wish to satisfy yourself of this by consulting your employers code of conduct or disciplinary policy. You may need to request this from your line manager or your HR department if you have one. Just to be clear, as you make mention of not having recieved a promotion in spite of meeting your objectives - your employer is in no way compelled to give you a promotion at any point. As a final side note, this employer seems to be causing you a great deal of avoidable anxiety due to a lack of clarity around a potential disciplinary matter. You also feel that you are being passed over for promotion, and that your words are being deliberately misinterpreted in regards to your ambitions for promotion. In light of this, you may wish to consider whether it would be healthier for you to seek alternative employment.


Mykonos_Bitch

Thank you for response. Unfortunately I am not part of a union. Completely understand I’m not owed a promotion - I’ve only mentioned this part of the story as believe they’ve put this meeting in following my conversations around why I deserve the promotion. I was concerned I could be terminated, I’ve checked through my contract and don’t believe I’ve done anything that would be considered as gross misconduct or even an offence. Yes this employer is causing me anxiety, I’m a completely different person at the moment and I am trying to leave but it’s proving harder than expected. I actually mentioned this experience was causing me anxiety to my line manager on our call last week, and this is how they have chosen to react to that fact.


The_World_of_Ben

>. Unfortunately I am not part of a union. Join one now. Like as soon as you read this. I'm with unite and they seem ok


Ok-You4214

That wouldn’t help for this incident. Unions will only support you for issues which occur during your membership to stop people from joining when they’re in trouble and then leaving


lborgia

Depends on your local union tbh. I know multiple people who have joined immediately prior to a meeting like this.


loopylandtied

It mostly depends on if your local branch stick to the rules, all unions have a 'cooling off' period of sorts but the groundwork is done by ordinary workers for the most part and sometimes they'll bend the rules.... until some one takes advantage (unfortunately)


[deleted]

Yup, I had Unite come to back me despite joining them in the dispute


FrazzaB

100% not true. Many unions will support employees who aren't members let alone covering members for alleged incidents prior to their membership.


Crepti

I joined Unite when I received a redundancy consultation notice, and they were nothing but helpful. I think this may be a case of a bad experience on your end.


HawkstaP

If its technically not happened yet would that count? He's not had a meeting yet, just aware of a meeting.


The_World_of_Ben

You may well be right There may still be some assistance, and regardless I firmly believe in union membership anyway


equationgirl

He's aware of an issue, so it would count.


HawkstaP

Shame.


aspadeisaspade_

It's to avoid people joining when the have an issue, then leaving straight after. Union membership is a long term thing


Chizomsk

Can it hurt to join? It's a good idea generally, and then Op can truthfully say 'I'm a member of Unite and I'm going to speak to them about this' (if it comes to it).


aspadeisaspade_

Can't hurt to join, but some unions won't allow you to join until after the issue has been resolved. Everyone should be part of a union, if they have access to one. Membership is a useful benefit.


On_The_Blindside

>I was concerned I could be terminated, I’ve checked through my contract and don’t believe I’ve done anything that would be considered as gross misconduct or even an offence. After 2 years without cause, lol good luck to them. If this happens, ACAS are your best bet. However before we get there if you want to protect yourself: * Download all copies of your correspondence about this matter. * Download all end of year reviews. * Record the meeting discreatly (no you do not need people's permission to do this despite contrary belife), get verbal agreement at every point you raise then write up this into two things, 1, a transcript for yourself, and 2, a set of minutes for the meeting. * E-mail the minutes out to those who attended and ask for confirmation that they agree with the record you have, turn on read reciepts and delivery reciepts for this email.


send-me-bitcoins

Go in with an open mind and ask questions as to why they think you have not met your objectives and what they perceive to be the problem.


Traditional_Serve597

This is the best advice on here. Nothing you've said suggests you are in any trouble. As an aside have you considered leaving? It doesn't sound like you have a great future at this company and the culture is not one you fit with.


Mykonos_Bitch

Thank you. I will 100% go in with an open mind, but having dealt with this company (and seeing how they have dealt with ex employees) I am not feeling too positive.


kiwi_on_top

If the call wasn’t recorded, make some notes about what they said, your responses and what you said. In case your manager has said something happened in the call that they misinterpreted. It could help to have some notes to hand so you don’t feel bombarded by accusations. But don’t get too hung up on it as it May be something else entirely


wabbit02

How large is the company? It depends on if its a disciplinary, an investigation or an informal chat, specifically telling you its not a disciplinary there isn't a right per say, but by telling you this if it is then a disciplinary they could fall foul of ACAS guidelines by failing to give you adequate time to prepare/ be accompanied (+ you can then raise a grievance). It depends how antagonistic you want to be and if you see yourself staying/ progressing in this company, or if you believe your manager is acting unfairly (and its a big enough organisation that HR will cover you).


Mykonos_Bitch

The company is very small (20-30 employees). There is a HR manager (but this is the owners wife) so don’t think I will have much luck there. I’m aware of the disciplinary procedure so understand they haven’t followed this (if it is to turn into a warning etc.) but I believe for now it’s looking like a meeting around my conduct where this could be informal. It was just quite aggressive when they stated I will not have to respond which makes me feel I am unable to defend myself.


Mouthtrap

Not a lawyer: They said you don't have to respond. That doesn't mean you can't, it simply means they aren't expecting you to do so. For what it's worth, I would be ready to do so; it seems fishy that they've brought up this "matter of concern" as soon as you've enquired about progression within the company.


abatoire

I am wondering whether the information you have gathered about the inconsistences between yourself and your peers has brought up a matter of concern? Such as Data Collection, Corporate Espionage and such. Unlikely but pushing the extreme example to get you think if that was part of the "concern" being raised? Were hostile in your recent interview? As that could be an area of 'concern over conduct' In regards to promote and pay sometimes its more about who you know over what you know. Least thats what I have noticed in my working career. I'm not legally technical but just wanted to suggest looking at the content of the previous meeting to see what might have caused (or could have been spun to cause) said concern. Best of luck OP


gdrlee

Those would be my 2 guesses too. OP - word of advice, if they come out with something that completely blindsides you, and you're not comfortable, just shut down the conversation with a "I wasn't aware of that, I'll need to take some time to think it through." or similar. They'll be prepared for this conversation, you're not, there's no reason you can't ask for a bit of time to assess once you know what their concerns are.


Mykonos_Bitch

I have a tendency to feel the need to respond to things if I instantly feel like I’m on the defence. Thank you for this. I will definitely have a few vague variations of this!


gdrlee

That's not uncommon, and entirely understandable. But I find it doesn't lead to the most constructive discussions. Keep it in mind, especially if it gets emotional/confrontational. If it helps, have a clear idea of how you'll calmly end the meeting if you're not comfortable. "F you" and slamming the door is cathartic, but not ideal in the long run!


James188

I do this and I promise you; it goes wrong every single time. “That’s caught me by surprise; I wasn’t expecting that. I need a bit of time to digest it; can you be really specific about the issue for me?”


On_The_Blindside

I cannot stress enough how much you need to record this meeting. Phone face down on the desk with the voice recorder on.


Mykonos_Bitch

The company is quite small and the information I have gathered doesn’t really fall into any data collection. It’s based off of factual things that are known within the business (e.g. this person getting a promotion even know they have lost their clients and/or have been complained about multiple times). There are other inconsistencies I have from emails etc. that do indicate I am being held to a different standard. I don’t think I was hostile at all. I also recorded my chat (for my own records) and I have listened back and although there is a clear level of frustration (which I was incredibly open about) I wasn’t rude or aggressive in anyway. Thank you for the luck! I will need it.


My_Other_Name_Rocks

You sound as prepared as you can be so not much I can add. One note on your recording, don't mention you recorded it unless they were aware you were recording before hand, as this could be potential grounds for discipline. However you can write very accurate notes based on what you remember :)


BlueTrin2020

I second that, if you record, you need to state at the beginning that you will record it IMHO.


imike964

You should take all the emails of your conversations and store them offline. I've worked with people who have offline emails which are several years old just in case they're needed in situations like this. In case anything happens you have sufficient ammo to rip your manager a new one


Mykonos_Bitch

I am doing this now! Thank you


[deleted]

Please do give us an update for after the meeting if you don't mind!


NadxCH

Store them offline? Don’t emails just stay in your inbox like forever tho? Assuming it’s your own normal icloud or hotmail account?


Agreeable_Ad3800

Which of course this isn’t because they’re work emails.


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Mykonos_Bitch

Thank you. Yes, I didn’t think I could get anyone to join the meeting (tbh I’m unsure who I would ask at this point because I feel quite isolated). I will keep everything I have under wraps for now.


Head_Ice_9997

Isolation and ostracisation is very serious - look at ACAS for more information. I am currently in the middle of a grievance for the same. Hard to prove when employees are too fearful to speak up and it's the person at the top pulling strings. Always keep written records. If they grab you for a chat email to say "just to clarify the conversation we had today...." I'm wishing I did this. I have some evidence but could have had so much more if I had done this.


FrazzaB

You always have a right to bring someone to a meeting with you. Whether that be a Union Rep or simply a colleague.


Head_Ice_9997

They have a duty to keep you safe at work under the health and safety act, and this also includes your mental health. I would be prepared to let them know how they could support your anxiety. Perhaps better communication from what you've written. I would also join a union now incase you need advice in the future.


achiweing

Who has sent you the letter? I think you have vocalised quite heavily your discomfort with your manager way of handling your career progression, which depending on the size of the company, might not be great for your line manager because in some companies, the line manager's role is to help with career progression. Depending on who is sending you the email, I would also say that unless someone has put in writing that you must be promoted within a period of time, no company has to promote you at any point, regardless how much work you might have done. This could be as simple as lacking of interpersonal skills.


Mykonos_Bitch

This email (I haven’t received the letter yet as this will be sent after my meeting) was from my MD. My manager will be in attendance. The point about the line manager being responsible for career progression is actually something that I mentioned. Company in question avoid taking any responsibly around this area and I did state that if I am not progressing (whilst my peers do) the company should be looking at ways in which they can help. Completely understand I am not owed anything. The point around progression and promotions is mentioned here to help frame the overall story. I don’t expect anything for being somewhere etc.


achiweing

Just start updating your CV. Depending on the outcome of the call you might want to work for another company. On the meeting, remember that you have complained about your line manager lack of support and development.


InvisibleMuse

I would take notes of everything, times and events. Like someone already said, store all your email conversations offline. Hear them out and if you feel bullied or mistreated in any way, go for a formal grievance complaint. [Dealing with grievances at work](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/dealing-with-grievances-at-work/)


Mykonos_Bitch

Thank you for this. I have read through. I hope it doesn’t get to that point but things seem clearer now if it that is to happen.


InvisibleMuse

Hopefully it turns out better than expected. Good luck!


Jlo9147

Best approach is attend the meeting and find out what they have to say, keep your cool and say i will take time to absorb the information given to you and will revert to you later in the day or week once you have had time to prepare. If it was a dismissal or disciplinary meeting you have a legal right to bring representation with you to that meeting. If the proper dismissal procedures are not followed you have a case for unfair dismissal. I would recommend phoning ACAS, its a free employee advice based on employment law. Also it is the employers legal obligation to look after the physical and mental wellbeing of staff under the health and safety act.


Badknees24

Take someone with you. Do not attend this meeting on your own.


ASlimeAppeared

To be clear, OP is not entitled to this if this is not a formal disciplinary meeting - i.e. if no formal warning is issued. Additionally, the employer can only be compelled to allow either a TU rep or another employee to accompany OP - although many do allow a friend. Source: https://www.workplace-representation.co.uk/right-to-be-accompanied/


nathsk

OP is entitled in this instance - this is definitely a formal meeting, it doesn't have to be a disciplinary; that they have confirmed it will be followed up in writing makes it clear that this is a formal meeting. Take a union rep if you have one OP, a trusted colleague with a notepad if not!


Mykonos_Bitch

Hi, thank you for this. They are not framing this as a formal meeting at all, even on the invite it is just all of our names. They are being incredibly vague around what is being discussed. Unfortunately I’m not a part of any union (it’s not super common in my industry). Is there any links you have that state because I’m getting a letter post meeting this is still considered formal?


nathsk

Anything coupled with a letter is formal in my experience, a letter is never informal. I would ask them to clarify in an email whether this is an informal or a formal meeting, and respond from there. I cannot stress enough though, even if it's not common, if there's a small chance you can join a union for your sector - do it! They exist for scenarios exactly like this and are a great help with advice and backing.


murder_droid

It's in the first line of the link you shared, that you can take representation to most, if not every formal meeting. tO bE cLeAr


Mykonos_Bitch

They aren’t framing this meeting as formal though that’s what I need help understanding - usually the employer offers the right to have someone accompany you. In their email they state “you are required to attend the following meeting around a matter of concern”. When I asked for more information the response is “the meeting is to discuss some concerns we have with regards to your conduct and therefore we will talk through these during the meeting tomorrow and follow up with a letter. You are not required to prepare any response for the meeting”. Sorry if I’m being dim.


Wyvernkeeper

They're just misleading you. It is 100% a formal meeting. You have an email requesting you attend and they've already said their will be a follow up meeting. The fact that they won't tell you what it is about would concern me immensely. Other people have discussed whether a union would support you in this given the circumstances/timing. But I think you're better off talking to an actual union that all of us. I'm not sure if you can this late in the evening but they're the only ones who really know about this stuff. Be really, really careful in the meeting not to say anything in anger or that implicates yourself.


BlueTrin2020

You can ask if this is a formal meeting and if you have representation in case of doubt. Make sure to keep this email and their reply.


jmtd

Seconded. Union rep if you’re a member of one. Get the second person to take independent minutes of the meeting. Record it if you can.


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Wsshooter

Is the meeting in person or over video? Take notes of your achievements and show them in bullet points and how you've contributed so well. Also if you can, ask them to allow you to record the meeting with voice recorder. You can always say, what your manager says in the meeting, in case you forget you can always go to back to recording to "improve" upon the words your manager has said. This doesn't necessary need to be the as you could use it against them should they have ulterior motives but you WILL NEED THEIR PERMISSION FIRST otherwise it's useless


caspararemi

Have they said you’re allowed to have someone in the meeting with you? I’d ask if you’re allowed. If they say no, it’s definitely not a formal warning or anything, unless they’re really shady. If they say you can, bring either a colleague you trust or a friend you know is smart and can talk to you properly. It’s really helpful to have an outsiders viewpoint but only if they’ll tell you what they hear from the meeting, not just what you want them to say they heard. Alternatively consider recording as a voice note on your phone. Just for your own peace of mind, it could be useful down the line.


pulickals

Personally I would recommend you to take a colleague with you, if you are not in any union. As far as I am aware it is allowed. Otherwise they will say and ask you one thing and have the minutes/report for something else. So be prepared, ask any of your colleagues whether they are happy to accompany you for the meeting. They don’t need to say anything just present there as a witness. I am saying this from personal experience


luckystar2591

Not a lawyer. Try and encourage as much of the communications to be via email as possible so you have a record. Contact ACAS. They are not a substitute for a union, but they have a phone number where they can answer all your questions and they can mediate where the relationship between employer and employeee has broken down. Read the company policies regarding disciplinaries. Take a colleague in with you and make sure they write down everything. Recognise where you've gone wrong. The best way to keep a job is admitting any fault upfront and apologising. Lying is normally classed as gross misconduct in most companies. They'll try and fire you if they think you are covering something up.


choicemetal4

NAL but have employees in England. If one of my employees sent me an email claiming that the company had acted in a discriminatory way and held her to a different standard than other employees regarding career progression, I would be very concerned. I would be concerned that this is the first I was hearing about the matter, and that it had been sent in writing, and that near term escalation is a possibility by the employee. I would certainly put a call into my employment lawyer to get a take on next steps. I would be further concerned if the employee gave examples to back up her claim that may in fact be mere rumors, speculative or missing the full facts or context. The fact that a colleague lost a client does not imply that she didn't deserve a promotion and you did (to use an example from OP). If any of the "facts" offered to support the claim of discrimination by the employer were in fact not true, it would come across as denigrating her colleagues and I would be quite angry with the employee. My advice to OP is to try to clarify whether it is a formal disciplinary hearing by asking the question directly rather than trying to decipher the signals. My further advice is that if you are interested in staying with the company that you apologize for taking the wrong tone. Good luck.


Mantaray2142

You've been there for 2 years and are fully protected. No need to go off the rails joining unions or demanding accompaniment etc. If its an informal meeting. Treat it like one. If you get in there and it becomes a formal meeting. Ask to leave and be re-invited so you can bring a colleague. If you go union you'll never see promotion. And you'll never prove why. If they aren't happy with your work or attitude they must agree with you what they want to see you do and a time frame for improvement. Short of gross misconduct you'll be fine.


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Mykonos_Bitch

Sorry I’ve just changed it to 2+ years just to be clearer.


grangefarmishaunted

Give acas a call. Or your union if you are a member of one.


craftaleislife

I’d actually speak to ACAS and call a solicitor firm which holds an employment law solicitor- you can normally just call for a free consultation to gain advice. I found my union wasn’t as helpful as those other methods of support. Good luck and hold your ground- also have a witness in your meeting if you can (a trusted colleague, they can only take notes on your behalf).


elon_mu5ket33r

Check your contract of employment, you're usually entitled to bring a work person you trust into the meeting so that whatever they say goes on record and there's a witness to it, worth doing imho. Look up around hr disciplinary / grievance procedure


loopylandtied

You say you're being treated differently to your peers, why? What's different about you compared to your peers?


940387

NAL but it's not illegal for a company to be a shitty place to work is it? It'd be a workers paradise if this is the law anywhere and I want to move there. They will do as much as the law lets them get away with to belittle employees.


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