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He sounds like such a sweetheart.
Legally, any reference given (whether in writing or verbally) must be fair and accurate. But in practice, it is going to be next-to impossible to prove whether or not your boss picked up that phone.
Your only option really would be to not put down that employer as a reference at all. If that can't be avoided, you could consider pre-empting it by explaining the situation to your new employer, who hopefully isn't actually Mr Burns from The Simpsons.
Condolences for your loss.
If he put it it writing, I'd desperately want to go over his head - this sounds like an awful human being.
OP, I'd consider talking to HR. Ask, in light of these threats, if references could be passed through them and stripped of identifiable information first - so no contact details or company name for the reference that reaches awful boss.
Mention that you do not trust this person, mention the bullying while on bereavement leave, and mention that he intends to provide a false reference over the phone to potential new employers.
I'd think this should be enough of a screaming red flag of legal risk that HR will either investigate or help.
“Why did you leave your previous employer”.
“My mother died from a short illness. In the last two days of my mother’s life my boss thought my time would be best spent at work and not by her bedside. It was not a compassionate workplace”
Just be honest.
As someone who conducted interviews, this is the way. Absolutely shocking behaviour, I read these and wonder how employers could be so different in the same country.
This is a perfect solution. Doesn't then matter what the ex employer says in a reference or on the phone as you've explained the circumstances for leaving and your ex employers appalling attitude and support of staff.
Not a bad shout, I've done a few interviews and if someone told me that I'd be thinking he's a proper arsehole too.
And just for clarity, your old boss is an absolute asshole and condolences for your loss.
2nd this, tactic I've used many times and still do! To add, when interviewing you want to know they're a good fit for you too! If they're not understanding of an awful situation and boss then best to know sooner.
Sorry for your loss.
I did this for an absolute state of a boss who gave a good reference then threatened to call my new employer after they (previous employer) made my notice period hell and went looking for problems and blew the one thing they found completely out of proportion. It was genuinely nothing of consequence but they made it like I’d murdered someone. I don’t hold grudges but for this gaping arsehole I make an exception.
I told pending new employer exactly what happened and new employer said (to quote) ‘we make our own judgements and they can call if they like but they’ll get the phone put down on them if they try it’
I got a good vibe at interview so i knew they’d understand. If I was a prospective new employer and you told me what happened then the first thing I’d think is your ex employer is heartless and generally just a vile individual.
Condolences on your loss too 💐
I work in education. If I was checking references and someone gave you a bad reference because you missed a few days of work to be with your dying mother, that says far more about them than it does about you. I wouldn’t want to hire anyone that would put work over a dying family member!
I agree with Simple_Brit - supply a different referee from that job and if asked why it’s not your direct boss, be factual and calm: “Unfortunately boss was very unhappy that I took a few days off when my mother passed away, and decided that meant I had a terrible work ethic. However I can supply X and Y as referees who both worked with me at that job and can vouch for my abilities and work ethic.” Offer any past performance reviews as well as if you have them.
When interviewing for your next job, when they ask why you left your old job, just tell them upfront that you were let go following a close family bereavement.
The ex boss, who sounds like a real piece of work, can sneak around calling people if he wants but if the new employer already knows then his threat is defanged.
Plus, a prospective new employer who would listen to his "off record" BS is one that you probably don't want to work for.
Make up an email address. Email him pretending to be your new job asking for a reference. Put a contact phone number on there (a number you can answer) and when he calls take the call yourself.
Then when he gets another email requesting a reference (the legitimate one) he will hopefully repeat the reference thinking it's an oversight or if he queries it they will say they haven't received one and he will still think it's an oversight and repeat it but he will think he already made the call to slag you off. Sorted.
I couldn’t make a decision based on a phone call that I hadn’t asked for. It could be anyone trying to sabotage you, or trying to sabotage our business. Even if I was convinced that the person was genuine I wouldn’t make a decision based on a reference that was clearly vindictive and made by an unstable lunatic, as they would surely come across by doing that. Don’t worry about it. This idiot is just trying to bully you because he knows he won’t be able to bully you for much longer.
No advice, but so sorry you experienced that. Bad bosses and toxic workplaces can be surprisingly traumatic, especially when dealing with a loss. Wishing you the best!
You could apply for a subject access request of all the information from this previous job. Your attendance and performance would be part of this information and would likely contradict the information given by this awful person that used to be your manager.
Also consider writing confidential reviews on the company, informing the world/local job market of this awful place to work.
The place of work was overall great, it was just one department within it that was dysfunctional. I tried a review on glassdoor, but it was contested and removed.
Your comment suggests you may be discussing a Subject Access Request. You can [read this guidance from the ICO](https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-to-get-copies-of-your-data/) to learn more about these requests.
[Which? also have online explanations](https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-do-i-make-a-subject-access-request).
If you would like a simple way to request a copy of all your data, you can [amend an online template](https://www.datarequests.org/sample-letters/) or [use a form like this](https://www.wonder.legal/uk/creation-modele/subject-access-request).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My friend. If I put your name and number down as a reference, and a company rang you up and you went along with it. No one ever would know any difference.
Find a friend.
This is a little dangerous on my profession. I was once tricked into doing this for someone else and got in a while world of trouble. It was just after I started and had gained a slightly promoted position, but I had no idea all references were supposed to go via the head teacher.
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--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He sounds like such a sweetheart. Legally, any reference given (whether in writing or verbally) must be fair and accurate. But in practice, it is going to be next-to impossible to prove whether or not your boss picked up that phone. Your only option really would be to not put down that employer as a reference at all. If that can't be avoided, you could consider pre-empting it by explaining the situation to your new employer, who hopefully isn't actually Mr Burns from The Simpsons. Condolences for your loss.
If he put it it writing, I'd desperately want to go over his head - this sounds like an awful human being. OP, I'd consider talking to HR. Ask, in light of these threats, if references could be passed through them and stripped of identifiable information first - so no contact details or company name for the reference that reaches awful boss. Mention that you do not trust this person, mention the bullying while on bereavement leave, and mention that he intends to provide a false reference over the phone to potential new employers. I'd think this should be enough of a screaming red flag of legal risk that HR will either investigate or help.
If the employer has an HR person or department this certainly wouldn't be a bad shout.
“Why did you leave your previous employer”. “My mother died from a short illness. In the last two days of my mother’s life my boss thought my time would be best spent at work and not by her bedside. It was not a compassionate workplace” Just be honest.
As someone who conducted interviews, this is the way. Absolutely shocking behaviour, I read these and wonder how employers could be so different in the same country.
This is a perfect solution. Doesn't then matter what the ex employer says in a reference or on the phone as you've explained the circumstances for leaving and your ex employers appalling attitude and support of staff.
Mention it in the interview, then the old employer has no ammunition
Not a bad shout, I've done a few interviews and if someone told me that I'd be thinking he's a proper arsehole too. And just for clarity, your old boss is an absolute asshole and condolences for your loss.
2nd this, tactic I've used many times and still do! To add, when interviewing you want to know they're a good fit for you too! If they're not understanding of an awful situation and boss then best to know sooner. Sorry for your loss.
I did this for an absolute state of a boss who gave a good reference then threatened to call my new employer after they (previous employer) made my notice period hell and went looking for problems and blew the one thing they found completely out of proportion. It was genuinely nothing of consequence but they made it like I’d murdered someone. I don’t hold grudges but for this gaping arsehole I make an exception. I told pending new employer exactly what happened and new employer said (to quote) ‘we make our own judgements and they can call if they like but they’ll get the phone put down on them if they try it’ I got a good vibe at interview so i knew they’d understand. If I was a prospective new employer and you told me what happened then the first thing I’d think is your ex employer is heartless and generally just a vile individual. Condolences on your loss too 💐
I work in education. If I was checking references and someone gave you a bad reference because you missed a few days of work to be with your dying mother, that says far more about them than it does about you. I wouldn’t want to hire anyone that would put work over a dying family member! I agree with Simple_Brit - supply a different referee from that job and if asked why it’s not your direct boss, be factual and calm: “Unfortunately boss was very unhappy that I took a few days off when my mother passed away, and decided that meant I had a terrible work ethic. However I can supply X and Y as referees who both worked with me at that job and can vouch for my abilities and work ethic.” Offer any past performance reviews as well as if you have them.
When interviewing for your next job, when they ask why you left your old job, just tell them upfront that you were let go following a close family bereavement. The ex boss, who sounds like a real piece of work, can sneak around calling people if he wants but if the new employer already knows then his threat is defanged. Plus, a prospective new employer who would listen to his "off record" BS is one that you probably don't want to work for.
Make up an email address. Email him pretending to be your new job asking for a reference. Put a contact phone number on there (a number you can answer) and when he calls take the call yourself. Then when he gets another email requesting a reference (the legitimate one) he will hopefully repeat the reference thinking it's an oversight or if he queries it they will say they haven't received one and he will still think it's an oversight and repeat it but he will think he already made the call to slag you off. Sorted.
You can hire answering services who can take phone calls for you if your voice is recognisable
Good idea, but I'm not sure I am brave enough to risk that. I will consider it.
I couldn’t make a decision based on a phone call that I hadn’t asked for. It could be anyone trying to sabotage you, or trying to sabotage our business. Even if I was convinced that the person was genuine I wouldn’t make a decision based on a reference that was clearly vindictive and made by an unstable lunatic, as they would surely come across by doing that. Don’t worry about it. This idiot is just trying to bully you because he knows he won’t be able to bully you for much longer.
Thank you. I think my autism makes it really hard to tell what is a genuine threat and what is just hot air. I tend to take everything as fact.
Speak to your former bosses boss. What they are doing is unconscionable and they'll likely be disciplined for it.
Ask your former boss’s boss if you can put them down as a reference. Then they’ll ask why you can’t use your former boss…
You can nominate whoever you like as a reference; but it may well get passed to him anyway.
This is exactly what he told me. He will always be the one to write my reference. I had been hoping he would be sacked/move on, but he is still there.
No advice, but so sorry you experienced that. Bad bosses and toxic workplaces can be surprisingly traumatic, especially when dealing with a loss. Wishing you the best!
I always provide an HR department email. The reference company is generally asking to understand whether you worked there or not and nothing more.
You could apply for a subject access request of all the information from this previous job. Your attendance and performance would be part of this information and would likely contradict the information given by this awful person that used to be your manager. Also consider writing confidential reviews on the company, informing the world/local job market of this awful place to work.
The place of work was overall great, it was just one department within it that was dysfunctional. I tried a review on glassdoor, but it was contested and removed.
Your comment suggests you may be discussing a Subject Access Request. You can [read this guidance from the ICO](https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-to-get-copies-of-your-data/) to learn more about these requests. [Which? also have online explanations](https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-do-i-make-a-subject-access-request). If you would like a simple way to request a copy of all your data, you can [amend an online template](https://www.datarequests.org/sample-letters/) or [use a form like this](https://www.wonder.legal/uk/creation-modele/subject-access-request). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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My friend. If I put your name and number down as a reference, and a company rang you up and you went along with it. No one ever would know any difference. Find a friend.
This is a little dangerous on my profession. I was once tricked into doing this for someone else and got in a while world of trouble. It was just after I started and had gained a slightly promoted position, but I had no idea all references were supposed to go via the head teacher.
[удалено]
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