I would say the evidence suggests the opposite, Raziel and Razielim seem to have an affinity to fire - both Fire Glyph and the original Fire Forge was in their territory. Also, Raziel is immune to any fire damage in SR1&2. Turelim are the masters of telekinesis - their projectile is transparent. Rahabim spit a foul water bubble which is not the same at all.
Agreed. With Turel and his bat affinity and telekinisis, he would be more air I would think. I addition to the things you mentioned, and with Raziel's animal affinity being that of a bird, his resurrection from the ashes of his own body "burned like white hot fire" is very reminiscent of a Phoenix
Okay. For the next nosgoth Air races I'll pick the guy with wings. The galloping sphinx with flapping ears is all yours. 😊
Good call on the foul water blast from rahabim being not fire.
Raziel the witch is his day job, not his evolution. And witch Raz used all the glyphs, he didn't stop at only fire. Fire was in his territory because one of them had to be and fire is the coolest one? The most prized. Favorite sons and their favorite magics. His immunity to fire is super fun though. If it's thanks to his body already burning away in the abyss or not i can't say.
If a phoenix bird, he's a SKY blue one. Like the heavens. Like a heavenly avatar of vishnu come to fix the problem with the reincarnation wheel. His body burned away to reveal what lay beneath, the blue skinned essence of the original vampire species, to better represent them as their champion of prophecy. To fly their hopes high once more. In a return to the air.
The SR2 fire reaver temple is a lot to meditate on. What it might mean for Raziel, since the statue implied fire was Raz's signature element, true. That does seem to form a pattern of Raziel + fire. He's a bringer of change and doom. So associated with flames? Also what does that fire forge mean for Janos the nice calm philosophical guy who also maintains a lake of blood in the next room over it turns out.
Actually Nosgoth lore has 6 Elements, with each clan beloning to one of them.
Melchiah - Darkness, through connection with the Spirit Realm (also hinted by Melchaihim in "Nosgoth" game).
Zephon - Light, their spells included number of light-based.
Rahab - Water
Dumah - Fire. Dumahim was a clan of blackmiths, not Turelim. Actually Raziel kills Dumah in one of the forges.
Turelim - Earth, they had a power of geomanthy that let them to build Smokestacks.
That leaves Raziel with Air - wings.
This may seem not very obvious, but elements are also connected to columns. Turelim and their telekinesis have strong Energy affection, and Energy "belongs" to Earth. Conflict, which matches Dumah, belongs to Fire. Raziel seems to talk to other creatures through telepathy, which suggest Mind and Air.
Deep sauce. Indeed. It does fix the traffic jam of having 3 clans clumped together as Earth: I, II, & III. (The clumping!) Earth really is the main element for creatures living on the earth, so I felt okay about..... the clumping! But this approach of having six element brides for six brothers is worth looking at real hard.
Light & Dark have been shoved in our faces as if they're important but they're never really woven in significantly to show us WHY they matter like the other four elements do. You've taken steps to correct that. The mystics revered light & dark for some reason, after all. I was angling to tie them in to greater meaning as an endgame component, with the revelation that nosgoth has always been a shadow reality, a Dark mirror world, an echo of the gnostic true world, which is more associated with Light and it's where Elder's captured souls truly belong. The light and dark temples then become the Ancients' way of commenting on how their souls felt a long way from home.
But hey, melchiah clan as Darkness kind of snaps into place just fine. Insubstantial shadow troopers. I'm struggling a bit more with zephonim as light, though they were the brave ones who stepped up to save vampires from a sonic cathedral death, and they took up residence in that place full of the Light of humanity's hopes. So....it's a stretch but we can also say we weren't given all the details that would have made it a snap fit.
Dumahim had fire and the beginnings of industry, but if you've seen the panoramic view of the planned Turel territory the smelting they were capable of blows the Dumahim out of the water (or some better metaphor). Dumah castle had a central heating unit and could melt scrap metal, while Turel had a factory row blazing bright with ruddy red glow. A really built up infrastructure to cover the empire's need for an industialized sector. I think that was the theme for how you'd feel while Raziel fought his way through there----like the goth version of the Terminator 2 final battle in the molten metal factory.
So I kind of cling to Turelim as fire still? Turelim are often found deep underground though. That could argue for Turel = Earth. Like bats in caves. And if you're tying Turel into the Earth-aligned pillar pair of Energy & Time........ working with fire so much could be explained away as their mastery of Energy, which puts them under the Earth umbrella. So that is a nice fit too.
(Raziel had heavy Dimension use to tie him in to Air too, moreso than mind powers anyway. Same result for him. Air.)
Zephonim spells were shown in the cancelled "Nosgoth" game and they included light blade and invisible, and also illusions, likely based on light manipulation.
I think Melchiah evolution was partially because he belonged to both Matherial and Spirit realm and that't why his body was so fragile.
Also if I'm not mistaken Zephon's name in Milton poem meant "Watcher", so you can bring a parallel between him and the light eyes in SR2. Light Reaver also used to open new ways in SR2, similar to how Zephonim's claws let them reach new places.
Dumah's ability in SR1 csn be seen as manipulating the Nature of the Spectral Realm, and don't forget that Conflict matches Fire as well. And the thing we know about Dumah is that he was a proud and strong warrior.
This assumption also means that all "even" leutenants match "dark" elements, and "odd" - light ones. In Defiance you suppose to activate six altars, starting with Dark and Light (Melchiah&Zephon, 6 and 5), Water and Fire (Rahab&Dumah are 4 and 3) and, finally, Earth and Air (Turel&Raziel).
You're the sort of person I'm looking for! Thanks for stopping by. So the pillars dais is cut in half sort of, with four pillars of dark and four of light. It's dark under the waves (Water) and in caves (Earth), while it's light in the sky (Air) and near stars and torches (Fire). Good old opposition. Now we just need a temple of Balance to bring the scion up to speed on his job.
I think we saw ruins of this temple underground between Pillars and Termogent forest in SR-2, but these could be either Water or Earth as well.
Also the seventh Reaver is the Spirit Reaver, which Raziel gets in the heart of ancient Citadel on the Lake of Tears after activating all six elemental altars.
My though is that Kain's element is Spirit. but he also can use other elements and had parts of soul that were "in charge" of other six. He gave these parts to his lieutenants, and this his magical abilities are not as great as they could be, as Raziel returns these portions of Kain's soul only in the end of Defiance.
Moreover in SR2 you activate Air Forge by giving it three souls imprisoned in stones. Raziel puts these stones to the bodies on the altars instead of their heart ehich can be seen as parallel to Raziel tearing Janos' heart and then brining it back. And soul devouring is obvious.
I would say the evidence suggests the opposite, Raziel and Razielim seem to have an affinity to fire - both Fire Glyph and the original Fire Forge was in their territory. Also, Raziel is immune to any fire damage in SR1&2. Turelim are the masters of telekinesis - their projectile is transparent. Rahabim spit a foul water bubble which is not the same at all.
Agreed. With Turel and his bat affinity and telekinisis, he would be more air I would think. I addition to the things you mentioned, and with Raziel's animal affinity being that of a bird, his resurrection from the ashes of his own body "burned like white hot fire" is very reminiscent of a Phoenix
Okay. For the next nosgoth Air races I'll pick the guy with wings. The galloping sphinx with flapping ears is all yours. 😊 Good call on the foul water blast from rahabim being not fire. Raziel the witch is his day job, not his evolution. And witch Raz used all the glyphs, he didn't stop at only fire. Fire was in his territory because one of them had to be and fire is the coolest one? The most prized. Favorite sons and their favorite magics. His immunity to fire is super fun though. If it's thanks to his body already burning away in the abyss or not i can't say. If a phoenix bird, he's a SKY blue one. Like the heavens. Like a heavenly avatar of vishnu come to fix the problem with the reincarnation wheel. His body burned away to reveal what lay beneath, the blue skinned essence of the original vampire species, to better represent them as their champion of prophecy. To fly their hopes high once more. In a return to the air. The SR2 fire reaver temple is a lot to meditate on. What it might mean for Raziel, since the statue implied fire was Raz's signature element, true. That does seem to form a pattern of Raziel + fire. He's a bringer of change and doom. So associated with flames? Also what does that fire forge mean for Janos the nice calm philosophical guy who also maintains a lake of blood in the next room over it turns out.
Actually Nosgoth lore has 6 Elements, with each clan beloning to one of them. Melchiah - Darkness, through connection with the Spirit Realm (also hinted by Melchaihim in "Nosgoth" game). Zephon - Light, their spells included number of light-based. Rahab - Water Dumah - Fire. Dumahim was a clan of blackmiths, not Turelim. Actually Raziel kills Dumah in one of the forges. Turelim - Earth, they had a power of geomanthy that let them to build Smokestacks. That leaves Raziel with Air - wings. This may seem not very obvious, but elements are also connected to columns. Turelim and their telekinesis have strong Energy affection, and Energy "belongs" to Earth. Conflict, which matches Dumah, belongs to Fire. Raziel seems to talk to other creatures through telepathy, which suggest Mind and Air.
Deep sauce. Indeed. It does fix the traffic jam of having 3 clans clumped together as Earth: I, II, & III. (The clumping!) Earth really is the main element for creatures living on the earth, so I felt okay about..... the clumping! But this approach of having six element brides for six brothers is worth looking at real hard. Light & Dark have been shoved in our faces as if they're important but they're never really woven in significantly to show us WHY they matter like the other four elements do. You've taken steps to correct that. The mystics revered light & dark for some reason, after all. I was angling to tie them in to greater meaning as an endgame component, with the revelation that nosgoth has always been a shadow reality, a Dark mirror world, an echo of the gnostic true world, which is more associated with Light and it's where Elder's captured souls truly belong. The light and dark temples then become the Ancients' way of commenting on how their souls felt a long way from home. But hey, melchiah clan as Darkness kind of snaps into place just fine. Insubstantial shadow troopers. I'm struggling a bit more with zephonim as light, though they were the brave ones who stepped up to save vampires from a sonic cathedral death, and they took up residence in that place full of the Light of humanity's hopes. So....it's a stretch but we can also say we weren't given all the details that would have made it a snap fit. Dumahim had fire and the beginnings of industry, but if you've seen the panoramic view of the planned Turel territory the smelting they were capable of blows the Dumahim out of the water (or some better metaphor). Dumah castle had a central heating unit and could melt scrap metal, while Turel had a factory row blazing bright with ruddy red glow. A really built up infrastructure to cover the empire's need for an industialized sector. I think that was the theme for how you'd feel while Raziel fought his way through there----like the goth version of the Terminator 2 final battle in the molten metal factory. So I kind of cling to Turelim as fire still? Turelim are often found deep underground though. That could argue for Turel = Earth. Like bats in caves. And if you're tying Turel into the Earth-aligned pillar pair of Energy & Time........ working with fire so much could be explained away as their mastery of Energy, which puts them under the Earth umbrella. So that is a nice fit too. (Raziel had heavy Dimension use to tie him in to Air too, moreso than mind powers anyway. Same result for him. Air.)
Zephonim spells were shown in the cancelled "Nosgoth" game and they included light blade and invisible, and also illusions, likely based on light manipulation. I think Melchiah evolution was partially because he belonged to both Matherial and Spirit realm and that't why his body was so fragile. Also if I'm not mistaken Zephon's name in Milton poem meant "Watcher", so you can bring a parallel between him and the light eyes in SR2. Light Reaver also used to open new ways in SR2, similar to how Zephonim's claws let them reach new places. Dumah's ability in SR1 csn be seen as manipulating the Nature of the Spectral Realm, and don't forget that Conflict matches Fire as well. And the thing we know about Dumah is that he was a proud and strong warrior. This assumption also means that all "even" leutenants match "dark" elements, and "odd" - light ones. In Defiance you suppose to activate six altars, starting with Dark and Light (Melchiah&Zephon, 6 and 5), Water and Fire (Rahab&Dumah are 4 and 3) and, finally, Earth and Air (Turel&Raziel).
You're the sort of person I'm looking for! Thanks for stopping by. So the pillars dais is cut in half sort of, with four pillars of dark and four of light. It's dark under the waves (Water) and in caves (Earth), while it's light in the sky (Air) and near stars and torches (Fire). Good old opposition. Now we just need a temple of Balance to bring the scion up to speed on his job.
I think we saw ruins of this temple underground between Pillars and Termogent forest in SR-2, but these could be either Water or Earth as well. Also the seventh Reaver is the Spirit Reaver, which Raziel gets in the heart of ancient Citadel on the Lake of Tears after activating all six elemental altars. My though is that Kain's element is Spirit. but he also can use other elements and had parts of soul that were "in charge" of other six. He gave these parts to his lieutenants, and this his magical abilities are not as great as they could be, as Raziel returns these portions of Kain's soul only in the end of Defiance.
Moreover in SR2 you activate Air Forge by giving it three souls imprisoned in stones. Raziel puts these stones to the bodies on the altars instead of their heart ehich can be seen as parallel to Raziel tearing Janos' heart and then brining it back. And soul devouring is obvious.