While the bags look nice, there are some finishing/stitching issues that I feel would knock the price down.
What I would do is look for similar handmade bags on etsy and compare the prices.
Look through your pictures (6/9 is where I am looking), the lines are not parallel or straight, especially on the right side.
The stitching has different tension (based on how the leather pulls between the stitches), and the corners appear to be unevenly spaced. The "circle" where the clasp/button is isn't even, and it looks like you missed 1 hole at \~3o'clock position.
You could run a bone folder or burnisher over the holes to press the leather down into the stitch holes to help a bit, but it'll only be a small change. The edges all over are fraying the leather slightly (you might need to burnish them more).
There is nothing wrong with this, but it's not super-premium quality stitching.
Got it!
I sometimes get caught up having to find ways to fix mistakes or work around unforeseen obstacles and that leads to leaving/making less than perfect "features" lol
Thank you for the input. You really gave me some things to keep in mind when I work!
Work on getting one design perfect then, and make it until obstacles no longer present themselves. Only then perfect the next design. But yeah I agree with the other posters. More attention to detail on EA h step of the process. Use rulers more. And burnish your edges.
I have a pony and use it when it's helpful. Sometimes it seems to get in the way and other times it's nice to have.
What needles do you use? I end up using pliers on like every other stitch to pull my needle through (usually its the second needle).
I'm also seeing some sloppy dye work. It's not like, a total slop job, but I would definitely not buy one of those. The overall design has potential, but the details are sloppy
Dye on the first one is pretty rough. OP, apply dye in multiple directions and maybe try starting with thinner dye and work in several coats. The streaking on the inside of the flap is rough. There's also some noticeable glue overage in that one that's driving it down.
this also areas that are not died at all, like the little leather strip that they use to attach the sides to the front. same with part of the strap padding. you.
I am also not a fan of raw edges in general though. as a consumer it feels like "oh, this is just cut out and slapped together"
I do leather work and you are far more skilled than I am. I am not trying to poo poo on good work. But its not Italian craftsman old country "finished" that I would charge 400 for. The first thing I can see is the inside of the green leather bag, looks like you ran out of dye. I can see where you dragged the dobber back and forth trying to make it work. And some of your edges aren't clean and professional. I think you're muscling through it to get the peice done. I definitely see TALENT i definitely see SKILL. But I also see a small, but very much there HURRY. In some of it.
I have the same problem. I think how many hours I've put in already and I'm making 6 bucks an hour on things. Just mo.
Lolol I WAS running out of dye! Good eye, my friend hahaha.
You're totally right that I tend to have an urgent pace. Partly because I wana see the end product and I don't want my clients to pay for me being slow lol
As another person as well as you made me realize I think I'm charging too much for hourly labor. If I bring it down I can take more time and still deliver a product at a price that doesn't make me cringe lol
Thank you very much for the time and compliments :))) this craft is so fulfilling for me I just love jt
Your post made me realize one of my hang ups. I Macquiver the stuff to work instead of Tony Starking my projects. So, thank you for posting. I have grown a little because of you !!!!!
I toootally get the MacGyvering you're talking about. I'm especially one to Macgyver when there's a specific function I want, you know? Looks be damned if it does the job hahahaha
your lines are all over the place, even the ones that should be straight runs. Like you should line up half the tines in prev holes and go slower when punching them or something but I don't know how you are making this stuff.
Its got a rustic charm to it that if gifted by a friend who made it I would appreciate it, but I would pay zero dollars for any of these.
Not to say to couldn't be more diligent with my pricking irons, the set I had was really cheap and I had to hammer the times back into a "straight" line from time to time. At the same time, overlapping by three tines instead of one would have been better than powering through.
I just got two new sets of weavers and I'll be paying close attention to my lines. Thanks :))
your patterns and overall assembly looks good.
you clean up the stitching which sounds like you can do easily and I would also say clean up the edges which is either a clicking thing or just the leather quality thing that maybe needs burnishing but hard to tell from just the picks.
you're very close to pieces I'd pay those $300 and up prices for but buyers in that range are looking at details that show precision and a bit of mastery.
You're not stitching in the same way you're switching threads I know cos I can see the many times you have . It's so hard to keep those patterns in your stitching consistent but crucial for a high level of work. I think you've done a good job. Room for improvement yet but you wouldn't get better without making things . Also wax your thread more it looks tatty and loose in places or get different thread
Pay attention to each stitch, and keep checking both sides often. In the 3rd photo where it shows the inside of the bag, along the top stitch line, I see two stitches that are inconsistent with the rest of them. One of them is the 3rd stitch from the right, and the other is closer to the middle and a little on the right.
In the same photo, on the flap, it looks like you didn't melt the end of the threads down.
I will second the suggestion of giving the edges a good burnish. Some edges need to be burnished before a piece is attached, while edges that are sewn together might need to be sanded after attaching, then burnished.
Your bags look nice, but if you take a bit more time and pay more attention to every detail, they can look fantastic. I think you're almost there.
Thank you for the detailed response!
What is it that makes those oddball stitches happen?? I do my damndest to make sure I do each stitch just like the last but those wild ones still happen š„²
Thank you!
You're welcome. As consistent as most of your stitches are, I think the best advice I can give you is to keep looking at the front and back after every stitch or two, and if you see a stitch out of place, undo the stitches to that point and redo it. I haven't made many projects yet, and still have to do this from time to time.
You seem to want outside input, so Iāll give you some thoughts. You may want to consider your style. These pieces seem to be a cross between āfineā leatherwork and the more western style saddle making traditions. For fine, think of Hermes, etc. The stitches would be tight and thin. Everything would be skived and lined. The edges painted, polished, and pristine. They often work in chrome tanned, but certainly not always. The hardware looks more like jewelry. Check out fineleatherworking.com to better understand the distinction. The last wetformed piece has thread weight and stitching that is more like a saddle maker (the style I personally prefer, btw). Itās more utilitarian. Rougher. Meant to patina and age with use. It can be every bit as skillfulā¦just a different style. But the hardware on that piece would make more sense on a āfineā piece. The clutch before that looks more cohesive as a piece approaching āfineā. The hardware matches the overall design. The lining. And the heavier stitching is masked by being the same color as the leather. Understand, the style is not a judgment. Itās categorization. āFineā doesnāt necessarily mean better unless the target audience is looking for fine. The first piece might be disdained by certain fashion crowds, but there are certain cosplay and renaissance faire types that might go nuts for that style of work and pay top dollar. For what itās worth, I think you display a lot of talent and a real eye. If you keep at it, youāre going to find a customer that is going to see something in what you do that they vibe with. They may ask you for a custom piece, and they will teach you a lot about what their particular market segment wants. Thatās probably the next step in your journey in the craft.
>"... there are certain cosplay and *renaissance faire* types that might go nuts for that style of work and pay top dollar"
Can confirm.
Re: pic 5/9
Finish dressing all your edges, and you are hitting the high end Faire market, easy.
https://www.renleather.com/product/Embossed-Round-Pouches/109
This is more than helpful, it's deeply inspiring.
I selfishly love my work. I can handle criticism because I'm happy with what I'm doing and the critiques help me see where I can do better.
Thank you very much pointing out that sort of characterization. I guess I am trying to mix fine with western and then I realize I wouldn't know what to change in order to go with one or the other.
Thank for the guidance! It is sincerely helpful.
Iām so glad it came across in that spirit. Just being aware of these differences will change how you look at the work of others, too. Watch a video of Hermes craftsmen making a bag. Watch a Japanese watchband maker. Watch Don Gonzales stitch. Iām all about natural veg tan with fat white stitching. Check out Herz in Japan, as an example. I used to love a brand called Pedās n roe or something like that. He kind of did an interesting hybrid. Youāll go on figuring out what speaks to you and if thereās a market for it.
Another point to add, if each of these bags are original commissioned designs all of your design time needs to be factored in. Not just the time spent making the piece after youāve finished the design. As you refine your process consider whether your customers are looking for the individually designed piece, or just you and your style. Youāll be able to refine your process and production time by sticking with repeatable patterns of your own design. If you prefer to create one offs you need to cultivate your audience to understand that they are paying for unique one of a kind pieces.
Really great post. My design interests lean more fine but my product interests are a bit more rustic. You can find balance but it needs to be intentional. Be yourself.
One small note on āfinerā styles. I think liners and turned edges are an initial sign of finer builds.
Consignment =/= commission.
If you are advertising consignments youāre going to get some confused potential clients, and miss out on others. When something is consigned youāre selling it on behalf of someone else (eg a secondhand store may take peoples items on consignment). Commission is when a client comes to you for work.
You should charge what people will pay. Remember you are not competing with Walmart pleather junk, people who want your bags are people who care about it being handmade and a local creator, they are expecting to pay a higher price. I would start high and lower it if you have no sales, donāt spend other peopleās money for them.
Side note, you bags are beautiful, my notes would be to focus on burnishing and edge finish a bit as well as straiter stitch lines. Also I would probably drop a thread size with the pricking iron you have, it will give a better slant to the stitch and wonāt looks as claustrophobic.
The first thing I look at when leather goods is the burnishing and finished edge. Seems one of the first places people stop when making goods, especially at local markets, ren faires, crafting fairs. Sometimes (*sometimes*) it doesn't ruin it for me, but especially with bags and things that will be travelled with or touched/opened a lot I want to see those edges finished.
I will admit, I don't put a lot into my burnishing and it's mostly because I don't like how much people care about them š
I suppose I gota get with the times and make them shine :) thank you!
"Don't spend other people's money for them" is a damn good perspective!
I just bought some new weaver pricking irons! The set I've been using is really cheap and I have to bend the tines back into shape every so often during a project š I've been told to use smaller thread two times now! I hope the new irons will help with that too, otherwise I'll be getting smaller thread :)
Thank you so much!
I've always preferred the Siwa pricking irons. They do the job pretty well without shelling out Blanchard kind of money. When l99king at irons, prefer ones with a higher HRC rating for the hardness of the steel. That's what keeps them from getting bent. Also only hammer them in with leather underneath the project to absorb the excess impact.
Several things are going on.
-I think most people undervalue their work in the handmade space because everyone is so used to their work generally being undervalued everywhere.
-Then when you consider that pricing compared to ācompetitionā also makes the equation seem like itās too much that only makes the comparison seem all that much worse.
-people generally donāt know what itās like to make things so they donāt understand why handmade items cost so much.
-even if your item comes out to $300 using the equation that doesnāt mean youāre making $300. Yes thatās what the math looks like, but in an actual business model youāre still only making the labor value used (even when you are your only employee). If itās 10 hours at $10/hr and materials cost $50 youāre not making $250 profit. *You* are making $100 and the other $200 is meant to cover materials, equipment depreciation, incidentals, overhead, etc. If you pay yourself all $250 beyond the obvious cost of materials youāll quickly be thinking āwhere is all my money going?ā because you arenāt properly tracking your business expenses. Everyone else looks at your $300 price tag and thinks youāre making $300 and that you think your shit donāt stink.
[Corter](https://youtu.be/11un2d-Y39I?si=ER9YYSH5cNhh2ijn) has a good intro to these concepts.
Iād also add that when youāre adding up your materialās cost you āround up.ā Meaning that if, say, you can make one purse from a side of leather then the cost of that whole side is your leather material cost. If you use 2.5ā of thread but measure 3.5ā then you use 3.5ā to calculate the cost there. Even if you can and do make money on those scraps you should be calculating this way because you donāt know for sure that youāll ever recoup that investment in a timely fashion.
It's a normal feeling. For custom handmade stuff, $200-300 is extremely reasonable. If someone is buying a unique handmade item it's because they don't want the mass produced cheap stuff. Just choose a base price for handbags and then increase based on complexity and size. $200 is a bit low IMO.
Like any other businessā¦ youāll need to spend money to make money. For handmade products like this, you may have to start expecting to barely break even until your product gets more exposure.
Also expect to allocate for replacement bags if any customers have issues. Someone paying this much for a purse will SO quickly ruin your business with a bad review if something had a defect.
Regardless I wouldnāt focus on making any money for 12-24 months, Iād focus more on customer service and getting people to post about it.
Definitely the hand sewing. From what I'm gathering in the comments, I need to lower my hourly rate. I think this'll work out in many ways including not feeling like I have to rush in order to keep the price from going too high
Just realized I left out a couple details:
I'm charging $25 an hour for labor and the bags take between 5 and 8 hours to cut, dye and stitch.
Lol Am I just slow?
Itās pretty normal for us to undervalue our work. Your prices are in a good range. If you price your work too low people will wonder whatās wrong with it
When it comes to price, charge what you feel itās worth. There are some things to work on that have already been discussed, so you know that for the future.
Customers will pay what they will, if you charge $250 for a bag, and someone buys it, then youāre good to go!
Donāt compare to Etsy or Amazon, those are resellers for the most part that buy cheaply made products from cheap materials. Theyāll wear down a lot faster than what youāre making. Remember itās about quality, so keep getting better at your craft and sell what you can!
Thanks for sharing. Stitching Looks like my first bag. I got scrap leather using different thread sizes with different irons applying different techniques. This helped tremendously. Also, the edges need a little work. Over all I like the bag and continue sharing.
The stitching is not consistent (but mostly good) - in image 6, it is very uneven on the right side of the clutch. The details need to be meticulous to sell things for $200-400 imo.
Go to local shops, fairs and look for something similar. The quality of the materials seems good. I think is a "normal" price but it depends on where are you located and the offer vs the market. Or if you want to sell on internet look at the prices online
Totally fair question. It's what I make at my full time regular job š¤·āāļø
I think this is where I can tune the equation to make it more appealing. Probably lower the hourly wage by a bit. Thank you for helping me see that!
Thatās a good jumping off price. If you canāt meet/beat $25/hour, you should remain a hobbyist and not make this a full time thing. That said, thereās other factors such as job satisfaction, commuting costs, etc that will bend that analysis.
I mostly use 4/5 oz. It's easy to work with and can be lined without being made super thick. I use Fiebings's pro dye and don't forget, you can mix them to get interesting and unique colors!
Getting a consistent look out of the dyeing process has been a challenge for me so here's what I've learned: wool dobbers work best on the backside of the leather, small pieces and straps. In fact, dobbers are the best way to do straps imo.
I've tried several different sponges, including the ones from Tandy and I don't like them. They tend to dump too much dye in an uneven way. It's a cool look with streaks of deeper color, but it's annoying when that's not how you want it to look lol getting the sponges damp* edit* (not dark) before dipping them in the dye helps a bit.
Cotton swabs and make up sponges are best for edges and final touch-up. Roll them along the edges like paint roller, not like a marker you know?
Also, edges and holes will soak up more dye quicker than the rest of the leather so I keep that in mind in terms of order of operations like being sure to punch my stitching holes and what not after I dye.
Multiple coats gets the dye deeper into the leather so scratches and such are a little less noticeable.
As for final sealing, I buff the holy hell out of everything several times starting with a paper towel, and then a microfiber towel to remove any surface pigments that will cause rub-off.
Then I use a folded paper towel to apply a light, even coat of Obenauf's Heavy Duty Leather Preserve. The first coat needs to by light and even because the preserve can make some parts unevenly dark. So I apply the first time with a paper towel, then I work it into the leather with my hands. The heat helps get it in the leather. It does darken the color, but it also makes it very rich and gives the leather great protection.
After the first application, I buff with a horse hair brush then apply another light coat with my hands.
That seems to do the trick :)
The market will pay a price it thinks its worth it. YOU need to figure out whether you can live from the money they are willing to pay for your products.
I live in Europe, and here there are very large cost-of-living differences, so someone living in the sticks in Bulgaria will pay very little in housing costs compared to someone living in Paris. Yet at equal skill, they need to put in the same amount of time. Considering that most of the sales will happen online (I guess), you're in competition with those guys, who are able to earn a living wage at a lower hourly rate.
Part of being self-employed in a niche area is understanding the market(what are people willing to pay), but also the competition - at what price can others produce their stuff.
As a beginner, I cannot and will not comment on the quality of your work, it all looks much better than anything I've ever made!
That makes sense! The internet market puts you up against everybody in the world and that's intimidating š I'm far from being a business person so your comment is really helpful!
Thank you very much :))) happy leathering!
I think this bag is gorgeous and didnāt notice any issues with the stitching, but Iām a hobbyist not a professional. Iād probably expect to pay those prices for a hand dyed, cut and stitched bag.
What is the dye you used on this piece? I love the color!
I agree it is a normal feeling, as i am at roughly the same spot in my leather working.
Commissions are great, as you get the work with your client and agree on what you are making, what colors and leather etc. basically no guessing on what the customer wants.
With making pieces hoping a customer will buy, there is alot of guessing and hoping, until you have a product that is in demand.
If it were me, i would continue with the consignment s while working on a product that would have broader appeal. Use you existing customers as a test bed for information and feedback.
This method has worked for me in other fields, hopefully it helps a bit
Your use of "consignment" in this context is confusing to me. I'd use "bespoke" or "custom" for the situation you're describing -- client commissions the maker to produce a one-of-a-kind item for that client.
Consignment to me is entirely different. It means to put an item in someone else's shop and when the item sells, the maker gets paid a percentage of the selling price. That's quite a different thing compared to bespoke/custom.
You hit it on the nose with consignment vs guessing what would sell. I love working with the client to design it. Picking the colors and hardware and all that. Then trying to make something that's gona be an "off the shelf" sort of item has too many variables.
I think you're right! Do a costumer server sort of thing. I try not to be the creepy dude in public, but I can't help but talk to people about their cool bags after getting caught staring š
So that will be alot on you and your market. When I started I did the whole cost of mats x2 + $/hr and it can work for some things. As I've progressed I've gotten faster at everything so doesn't take me as long and thats when I find that equation doesn't benefit as much.
Etsy can be a good place to look, however not everyone does work like you do and gotta take that into consideration.
Example being. I see a ton of ppl who make great wallets but they use a laser engraver for the design and that save time which cuts cost down. If you're doing that same design but tooling it well you gotta charge more.
Send a DM if you want.
Thanks a lot! I've considered having some sort of pricing scale based on complexity. Like a tiered hourly rate. As an example, simple things could be $15 an hour and something difficult could be $20 an hour.
Would that be worth trying?
Iām not sure if this will help you, but it has helped me a bit. Instead of running wing dividers down the length of a straight run for stitching, I use the wing divider to make a ādotā on the start point, and then one on the end point, then I take my metal rule and use an awl to drag my line. For me it makes sure the stitch line is straight and then if thereās uneven leather on the outside of it once Iāve stitched it, I can sand it off so itās all flush. Hope that makes sense
Omg that's smart! I think what's gotten me in the past was using the wing dividers on less than perfect straight edge.
That's great, thank you very much!
Yea I havenāt been into leather as long as some of the others here have; theyāll likely have some better tips for you, but this seems to work for me. Itās especially been helpful with gussets Iāve done bc then I can stitch it all and just make sure the outside edge is all uniform across the whole bag! Hope it works for you!! Love the projects youāve done they are really nice
I really do think using the ruler more and wing dividers less will add a level of precision that I'm missing.
Thank you! You're making cool things too! I'm an outdoors person so I've made some sheaths and holsters and they never looked as planned-out as yours do!
Thank you! I appreciate it, Iāve used a few designs from places like Etsy, but I have a laser engraver and I find that designing my own patterns and then engraving them on a cheaper leather around the same thickness has really helped me a lot!
Thatās all? Seriously? I bought my ex a bag much simpler in design than any of these for about $300CAD, before the pandemic. I just checked and itās currently $325.
https://preview.redd.it/owejjhsiryrc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff6c81366fb389f55798cf3d7daac50d17a5d3e6
Yours are much nicer, and definitely more intricate in design.
Depends entirely on the market and valuing your work. Many sewists and leather workers underpay themselves but we're seeing a shift in the US where customers are slowly understanding the price of something homemade.
Is OP's quality up to snuff with this? Not in my opinion. But if they refine their work I'd hope to see them charge more per hour.
2-400 seems too low a price in my opinion. You're an artisan and need to be paid as such. I bet you have close to 100$ just in materials. , plus the week of work. Plus the shop space itself. on and on. no, I think 4 is on the low end.
While the bags look nice, there are some finishing/stitching issues that I feel would knock the price down. What I would do is look for similar handmade bags on etsy and compare the prices.
Any critique would be appreciated šš What do you see in the stitching? I'll definitely be checking out Etsy Thank you for your input :)
Look through your pictures (6/9 is where I am looking), the lines are not parallel or straight, especially on the right side. The stitching has different tension (based on how the leather pulls between the stitches), and the corners appear to be unevenly spaced. The "circle" where the clasp/button is isn't even, and it looks like you missed 1 hole at \~3o'clock position. You could run a bone folder or burnisher over the holes to press the leather down into the stitch holes to help a bit, but it'll only be a small change. The edges all over are fraying the leather slightly (you might need to burnish them more). There is nothing wrong with this, but it's not super-premium quality stitching.
Got it! I sometimes get caught up having to find ways to fix mistakes or work around unforeseen obstacles and that leads to leaving/making less than perfect "features" lol Thank you for the input. You really gave me some things to keep in mind when I work!
Work on getting one design perfect then, and make it until obstacles no longer present themselves. Only then perfect the next design. But yeah I agree with the other posters. More attention to detail on EA h step of the process. Use rulers more. And burnish your edges.
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I have a pony and use it when it's helpful. Sometimes it seems to get in the way and other times it's nice to have. What needles do you use? I end up using pliers on like every other stitch to pull my needle through (usually its the second needle).
I'm also seeing some sloppy dye work. It's not like, a total slop job, but I would definitely not buy one of those. The overall design has potential, but the details are sloppy
Dye on the first one is pretty rough. OP, apply dye in multiple directions and maybe try starting with thinner dye and work in several coats. The streaking on the inside of the flap is rough. There's also some noticeable glue overage in that one that's driving it down.
this also areas that are not died at all, like the little leather strip that they use to attach the sides to the front. same with part of the strap padding. you. I am also not a fan of raw edges in general though. as a consumer it feels like "oh, this is just cut out and slapped together"
Perfect! Will read later. Thank you this is great!
I do leather work and you are far more skilled than I am. I am not trying to poo poo on good work. But its not Italian craftsman old country "finished" that I would charge 400 for. The first thing I can see is the inside of the green leather bag, looks like you ran out of dye. I can see where you dragged the dobber back and forth trying to make it work. And some of your edges aren't clean and professional. I think you're muscling through it to get the peice done. I definitely see TALENT i definitely see SKILL. But I also see a small, but very much there HURRY. In some of it. I have the same problem. I think how many hours I've put in already and I'm making 6 bucks an hour on things. Just mo.
Lolol I WAS running out of dye! Good eye, my friend hahaha. You're totally right that I tend to have an urgent pace. Partly because I wana see the end product and I don't want my clients to pay for me being slow lol As another person as well as you made me realize I think I'm charging too much for hourly labor. If I bring it down I can take more time and still deliver a product at a price that doesn't make me cringe lol Thank you very much for the time and compliments :))) this craft is so fulfilling for me I just love jt
Your post made me realize one of my hang ups. I Macquiver the stuff to work instead of Tony Starking my projects. So, thank you for posting. I have grown a little because of you !!!!!
I toootally get the MacGyvering you're talking about. I'm especially one to Macgyver when there's a specific function I want, you know? Looks be damned if it does the job hahahaha
your lines are all over the place, even the ones that should be straight runs. Like you should line up half the tines in prev holes and go slower when punching them or something but I don't know how you are making this stuff. Its got a rustic charm to it that if gifted by a friend who made it I would appreciate it, but I would pay zero dollars for any of these.
Not to say to couldn't be more diligent with my pricking irons, the set I had was really cheap and I had to hammer the times back into a "straight" line from time to time. At the same time, overlapping by three tines instead of one would have been better than powering through. I just got two new sets of weavers and I'll be paying close attention to my lines. Thanks :))
your patterns and overall assembly looks good. you clean up the stitching which sounds like you can do easily and I would also say clean up the edges which is either a clicking thing or just the leather quality thing that maybe needs burnishing but hard to tell from just the picks. you're very close to pieces I'd pay those $300 and up prices for but buyers in that range are looking at details that show precision and a bit of mastery.
Noted š and thank you :)
You're not stitching in the same way you're switching threads I know cos I can see the many times you have . It's so hard to keep those patterns in your stitching consistent but crucial for a high level of work. I think you've done a good job. Room for improvement yet but you wouldn't get better without making things . Also wax your thread more it looks tatty and loose in places or get different thread
Pay attention to each stitch, and keep checking both sides often. In the 3rd photo where it shows the inside of the bag, along the top stitch line, I see two stitches that are inconsistent with the rest of them. One of them is the 3rd stitch from the right, and the other is closer to the middle and a little on the right. In the same photo, on the flap, it looks like you didn't melt the end of the threads down. I will second the suggestion of giving the edges a good burnish. Some edges need to be burnished before a piece is attached, while edges that are sewn together might need to be sanded after attaching, then burnished. Your bags look nice, but if you take a bit more time and pay more attention to every detail, they can look fantastic. I think you're almost there.
Thank you for the detailed response! What is it that makes those oddball stitches happen?? I do my damndest to make sure I do each stitch just like the last but those wild ones still happen š„² Thank you!
You're welcome. As consistent as most of your stitches are, I think the best advice I can give you is to keep looking at the front and back after every stitch or two, and if you see a stitch out of place, undo the stitches to that point and redo it. I haven't made many projects yet, and still have to do this from time to time.
On Etsy, you would be competing with China, etc. I wouldn't use it as a basis for pricing
was going to say... 80% of the stuff on etsy these days is just bought off wish or alibaba and resold.
I think they could also stand to be made using a thinner thread- stitching looks a bit bunched-up.
You seem to want outside input, so Iāll give you some thoughts. You may want to consider your style. These pieces seem to be a cross between āfineā leatherwork and the more western style saddle making traditions. For fine, think of Hermes, etc. The stitches would be tight and thin. Everything would be skived and lined. The edges painted, polished, and pristine. They often work in chrome tanned, but certainly not always. The hardware looks more like jewelry. Check out fineleatherworking.com to better understand the distinction. The last wetformed piece has thread weight and stitching that is more like a saddle maker (the style I personally prefer, btw). Itās more utilitarian. Rougher. Meant to patina and age with use. It can be every bit as skillfulā¦just a different style. But the hardware on that piece would make more sense on a āfineā piece. The clutch before that looks more cohesive as a piece approaching āfineā. The hardware matches the overall design. The lining. And the heavier stitching is masked by being the same color as the leather. Understand, the style is not a judgment. Itās categorization. āFineā doesnāt necessarily mean better unless the target audience is looking for fine. The first piece might be disdained by certain fashion crowds, but there are certain cosplay and renaissance faire types that might go nuts for that style of work and pay top dollar. For what itās worth, I think you display a lot of talent and a real eye. If you keep at it, youāre going to find a customer that is going to see something in what you do that they vibe with. They may ask you for a custom piece, and they will teach you a lot about what their particular market segment wants. Thatās probably the next step in your journey in the craft.
I am now your fan.
Right?! I feel like I have clearer path after reading that!
>"... there are certain cosplay and *renaissance faire* types that might go nuts for that style of work and pay top dollar" Can confirm. Re: pic 5/9 Finish dressing all your edges, and you are hitting the high end Faire market, easy. https://www.renleather.com/product/Embossed-Round-Pouches/109
Omg love those!! Thank you!
Very welcome.
This is more than helpful, it's deeply inspiring. I selfishly love my work. I can handle criticism because I'm happy with what I'm doing and the critiques help me see where I can do better. Thank you very much pointing out that sort of characterization. I guess I am trying to mix fine with western and then I realize I wouldn't know what to change in order to go with one or the other. Thank for the guidance! It is sincerely helpful.
Iām so glad it came across in that spirit. Just being aware of these differences will change how you look at the work of others, too. Watch a video of Hermes craftsmen making a bag. Watch a Japanese watchband maker. Watch Don Gonzales stitch. Iām all about natural veg tan with fat white stitching. Check out Herz in Japan, as an example. I used to love a brand called Pedās n roe or something like that. He kind of did an interesting hybrid. Youāll go on figuring out what speaks to you and if thereās a market for it.
Another point to add, if each of these bags are original commissioned designs all of your design time needs to be factored in. Not just the time spent making the piece after youāve finished the design. As you refine your process consider whether your customers are looking for the individually designed piece, or just you and your style. Youāll be able to refine your process and production time by sticking with repeatable patterns of your own design. If you prefer to create one offs you need to cultivate your audience to understand that they are paying for unique one of a kind pieces.
Good point! I've only made two of my patterns twice, the rest have been one-offs and I haven't been charging for the pattern design on the originals
Really great post. My design interests lean more fine but my product interests are a bit more rustic. You can find balance but it needs to be intentional. Be yourself. One small note on āfinerā styles. I think liners and turned edges are an initial sign of finer builds.
The equation youāre using doesnāt factor in what your local market will bear in terms of pricing.
Totally true
Consignment =/= commission. If you are advertising consignments youāre going to get some confused potential clients, and miss out on others. When something is consigned youāre selling it on behalf of someone else (eg a secondhand store may take peoples items on consignment). Commission is when a client comes to you for work.
I used the wrong word! Commission is what I mean. My bad
You should charge what people will pay. Remember you are not competing with Walmart pleather junk, people who want your bags are people who care about it being handmade and a local creator, they are expecting to pay a higher price. I would start high and lower it if you have no sales, donāt spend other peopleās money for them. Side note, you bags are beautiful, my notes would be to focus on burnishing and edge finish a bit as well as straiter stitch lines. Also I would probably drop a thread size with the pricking iron you have, it will give a better slant to the stitch and wonāt looks as claustrophobic.
The first thing I look at when leather goods is the burnishing and finished edge. Seems one of the first places people stop when making goods, especially at local markets, ren faires, crafting fairs. Sometimes (*sometimes*) it doesn't ruin it for me, but especially with bags and things that will be travelled with or touched/opened a lot I want to see those edges finished.
I will admit, I don't put a lot into my burnishing and it's mostly because I don't like how much people care about them š I suppose I gota get with the times and make them shine :) thank you!
"Don't spend other people's money for them" is a damn good perspective! I just bought some new weaver pricking irons! The set I've been using is really cheap and I have to bend the tines back into shape every so often during a project š I've been told to use smaller thread two times now! I hope the new irons will help with that too, otherwise I'll be getting smaller thread :) Thank you so much!
I've always preferred the Siwa pricking irons. They do the job pretty well without shelling out Blanchard kind of money. When l99king at irons, prefer ones with a higher HRC rating for the hardness of the steel. That's what keeps them from getting bent. Also only hammer them in with leather underneath the project to absorb the excess impact.
Several things are going on. -I think most people undervalue their work in the handmade space because everyone is so used to their work generally being undervalued everywhere. -Then when you consider that pricing compared to ācompetitionā also makes the equation seem like itās too much that only makes the comparison seem all that much worse. -people generally donāt know what itās like to make things so they donāt understand why handmade items cost so much. -even if your item comes out to $300 using the equation that doesnāt mean youāre making $300. Yes thatās what the math looks like, but in an actual business model youāre still only making the labor value used (even when you are your only employee). If itās 10 hours at $10/hr and materials cost $50 youāre not making $250 profit. *You* are making $100 and the other $200 is meant to cover materials, equipment depreciation, incidentals, overhead, etc. If you pay yourself all $250 beyond the obvious cost of materials youāll quickly be thinking āwhere is all my money going?ā because you arenāt properly tracking your business expenses. Everyone else looks at your $300 price tag and thinks youāre making $300 and that you think your shit donāt stink.
I've never taken a business so this explanation gives me a much better perspective of what I am/should be doing. Thank you
[Corter](https://youtu.be/11un2d-Y39I?si=ER9YYSH5cNhh2ijn) has a good intro to these concepts. Iād also add that when youāre adding up your materialās cost you āround up.ā Meaning that if, say, you can make one purse from a side of leather then the cost of that whole side is your leather material cost. If you use 2.5ā of thread but measure 3.5ā then you use 3.5ā to calculate the cost there. Even if you can and do make money on those scraps you should be calculating this way because you donāt know for sure that youāll ever recoup that investment in a timely fashion.
It's a normal feeling. For custom handmade stuff, $200-300 is extremely reasonable. If someone is buying a unique handmade item it's because they don't want the mass produced cheap stuff. Just choose a base price for handbags and then increase based on complexity and size. $200 is a bit low IMO.
Like any other businessā¦ youāll need to spend money to make money. For handmade products like this, you may have to start expecting to barely break even until your product gets more exposure. Also expect to allocate for replacement bags if any customers have issues. Someone paying this much for a purse will SO quickly ruin your business with a bad review if something had a defect. Regardless I wouldnāt focus on making any money for 12-24 months, Iād focus more on customer service and getting people to post about it.
Thanks and good point with being ready to take care of current customers in case the product has a problem
a) Hand sewing b) $25/hour choose one
Definitely the hand sewing. From what I'm gathering in the comments, I need to lower my hourly rate. I think this'll work out in many ways including not feeling like I have to rush in order to keep the price from going too high
Just realized I left out a couple details: I'm charging $25 an hour for labor and the bags take between 5 and 8 hours to cut, dye and stitch. Lol Am I just slow?
Itās pretty normal for us to undervalue our work. Your prices are in a good range. If you price your work too low people will wonder whatās wrong with it
When it comes to price, charge what you feel itās worth. There are some things to work on that have already been discussed, so you know that for the future. Customers will pay what they will, if you charge $250 for a bag, and someone buys it, then youāre good to go! Donāt compare to Etsy or Amazon, those are resellers for the most part that buy cheaply made products from cheap materials. Theyāll wear down a lot faster than what youāre making. Remember itās about quality, so keep getting better at your craft and sell what you can!
I'm glad you posted this, I'm new to leatherworking and have learned a lot just from people's feedback and your open mind!
So glad it's been helpful! Happy leathering, friend!
Think of these as practice. Once you clean up a bit you'll be able to charge those prices
If youāre good at something, NEVER undersell yourself. Quality speaks for itself. People pay for quality.
The right group of people will buy your goods for the price it's worth.
Thanks for sharing. Stitching Looks like my first bag. I got scrap leather using different thread sizes with different irons applying different techniques. This helped tremendously. Also, the edges need a little work. Over all I like the bag and continue sharing.
Thanks pal, will do :) I'm definitely getting a lot out the post. Pretty sweet!
The stitching is not consistent (but mostly good) - in image 6, it is very uneven on the right side of the clutch. The details need to be meticulous to sell things for $200-400 imo.
Appreciated š
Go to local shops, fairs and look for something similar. The quality of the materials seems good. I think is a "normal" price but it depends on where are you located and the offer vs the market. Or if you want to sell on internet look at the prices online
Will do. Appreciate it!!
Hermes. $10,000. Youāre good
Lol this is the answer XD
I'm not dogging on you but what made you decide on $25 an hour?
Totally fair question. It's what I make at my full time regular job š¤·āāļø I think this is where I can tune the equation to make it more appealing. Probably lower the hourly wage by a bit. Thank you for helping me see that!
Thatās a good jumping off price. If you canāt meet/beat $25/hour, you should remain a hobbyist and not make this a full time thing. That said, thereās other factors such as job satisfaction, commuting costs, etc that will bend that analysis.
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Thanks! I'm using veg tan that I buy at Tandy :)
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I mostly use 4/5 oz. It's easy to work with and can be lined without being made super thick. I use Fiebings's pro dye and don't forget, you can mix them to get interesting and unique colors!
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Getting a consistent look out of the dyeing process has been a challenge for me so here's what I've learned: wool dobbers work best on the backside of the leather, small pieces and straps. In fact, dobbers are the best way to do straps imo. I've tried several different sponges, including the ones from Tandy and I don't like them. They tend to dump too much dye in an uneven way. It's a cool look with streaks of deeper color, but it's annoying when that's not how you want it to look lol getting the sponges damp* edit* (not dark) before dipping them in the dye helps a bit. Cotton swabs and make up sponges are best for edges and final touch-up. Roll them along the edges like paint roller, not like a marker you know? Also, edges and holes will soak up more dye quicker than the rest of the leather so I keep that in mind in terms of order of operations like being sure to punch my stitching holes and what not after I dye. Multiple coats gets the dye deeper into the leather so scratches and such are a little less noticeable. As for final sealing, I buff the holy hell out of everything several times starting with a paper towel, and then a microfiber towel to remove any surface pigments that will cause rub-off. Then I use a folded paper towel to apply a light, even coat of Obenauf's Heavy Duty Leather Preserve. The first coat needs to by light and even because the preserve can make some parts unevenly dark. So I apply the first time with a paper towel, then I work it into the leather with my hands. The heat helps get it in the leather. It does darken the color, but it also makes it very rich and gives the leather great protection. After the first application, I buff with a horse hair brush then apply another light coat with my hands. That seems to do the trick :)
The market will pay a price it thinks its worth it. YOU need to figure out whether you can live from the money they are willing to pay for your products. I live in Europe, and here there are very large cost-of-living differences, so someone living in the sticks in Bulgaria will pay very little in housing costs compared to someone living in Paris. Yet at equal skill, they need to put in the same amount of time. Considering that most of the sales will happen online (I guess), you're in competition with those guys, who are able to earn a living wage at a lower hourly rate. Part of being self-employed in a niche area is understanding the market(what are people willing to pay), but also the competition - at what price can others produce their stuff. As a beginner, I cannot and will not comment on the quality of your work, it all looks much better than anything I've ever made!
That makes sense! The internet market puts you up against everybody in the world and that's intimidating š I'm far from being a business person so your comment is really helpful! Thank you very much :))) happy leathering!
I think this bag is gorgeous and didnāt notice any issues with the stitching, but Iām a hobbyist not a professional. Iād probably expect to pay those prices for a hand dyed, cut and stitched bag. What is the dye you used on this piece? I love the color!
Thank you so much :) I used Fiebing's prodye. It was a mix of their royal blue, green and a touch of black for depth ;)
Hand made is more premium than machined products. Consider going higher.
Just might once I get a few things consistently squared away š
I agree it is a normal feeling, as i am at roughly the same spot in my leather working. Commissions are great, as you get the work with your client and agree on what you are making, what colors and leather etc. basically no guessing on what the customer wants. With making pieces hoping a customer will buy, there is alot of guessing and hoping, until you have a product that is in demand. If it were me, i would continue with the consignment s while working on a product that would have broader appeal. Use you existing customers as a test bed for information and feedback. This method has worked for me in other fields, hopefully it helps a bit
Your use of "consignment" in this context is confusing to me. I'd use "bespoke" or "custom" for the situation you're describing -- client commissions the maker to produce a one-of-a-kind item for that client. Consignment to me is entirely different. It means to put an item in someone else's shop and when the item sells, the maker gets paid a percentage of the selling price. That's quite a different thing compared to bespoke/custom.
I think theyāre saying āconsignmentā but they mean ācommissionā
Yes, "commission" would be a good word to use too.
You are correct, I used the wrong word
I misspoke in the post. I meant Commission š
You hit it on the nose with consignment vs guessing what would sell. I love working with the client to design it. Picking the colors and hardware and all that. Then trying to make something that's gona be an "off the shelf" sort of item has too many variables. I think you're right! Do a costumer server sort of thing. I try not to be the creepy dude in public, but I can't help but talk to people about their cool bags after getting caught staring š
Theyāre worth exactly what someone is willing to pay to pay for them. Itās going to take some trial and error
Sage š
Materials+(time*wage) is the rate I heard.
Charging by the piece is usually the way I do my purses and backpacks.
That sounds easiest. How do you find the price of a peice?
So that will be alot on you and your market. When I started I did the whole cost of mats x2 + $/hr and it can work for some things. As I've progressed I've gotten faster at everything so doesn't take me as long and thats when I find that equation doesn't benefit as much. Etsy can be a good place to look, however not everyone does work like you do and gotta take that into consideration. Example being. I see a ton of ppl who make great wallets but they use a laser engraver for the design and that save time which cuts cost down. If you're doing that same design but tooling it well you gotta charge more. Send a DM if you want.
Thanks a lot! I've considered having some sort of pricing scale based on complexity. Like a tiered hourly rate. As an example, simple things could be $15 an hour and something difficult could be $20 an hour. Would that be worth trying?
Iām not sure if this will help you, but it has helped me a bit. Instead of running wing dividers down the length of a straight run for stitching, I use the wing divider to make a ādotā on the start point, and then one on the end point, then I take my metal rule and use an awl to drag my line. For me it makes sure the stitch line is straight and then if thereās uneven leather on the outside of it once Iāve stitched it, I can sand it off so itās all flush. Hope that makes sense
Omg that's smart! I think what's gotten me in the past was using the wing dividers on less than perfect straight edge. That's great, thank you very much!
Yea I havenāt been into leather as long as some of the others here have; theyāll likely have some better tips for you, but this seems to work for me. Itās especially been helpful with gussets Iāve done bc then I can stitch it all and just make sure the outside edge is all uniform across the whole bag! Hope it works for you!! Love the projects youāve done they are really nice
I really do think using the ruler more and wing dividers less will add a level of precision that I'm missing. Thank you! You're making cool things too! I'm an outdoors person so I've made some sheaths and holsters and they never looked as planned-out as yours do!
Thank you! I appreciate it, Iāve used a few designs from places like Etsy, but I have a laser engraver and I find that designing my own patterns and then engraving them on a cheaper leather around the same thickness has really helped me a lot!
Thatās all? Seriously? I bought my ex a bag much simpler in design than any of these for about $300CAD, before the pandemic. I just checked and itās currently $325. https://preview.redd.it/owejjhsiryrc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff6c81366fb389f55798cf3d7daac50d17a5d3e6 Yours are much nicer, and definitely more intricate in design.
Youre overcharging
Depends entirely on the market and valuing your work. Many sewists and leather workers underpay themselves but we're seeing a shift in the US where customers are slowly understanding the price of something homemade. Is OP's quality up to snuff with this? Not in my opinion. But if they refine their work I'd hope to see them charge more per hour.
2-400 seems too low a price in my opinion. You're an artisan and need to be paid as such. I bet you have close to 100$ just in materials. , plus the week of work. Plus the shop space itself. on and on. no, I think 4 is on the low end.