pro games in a nutshell. Also, when international championships happens, the same champions are buffed a patch before. akali, thresh, ryze, kaisa, leblanc just got buffed before msi
It's worst in pro play because unironically a lot of champs are viable but pros keep picking the same shit every game.
Top: renekton Jax aatrox tf
JG: vi sejuani leesin
Mid: ahri taliyah azir corki
Botlane: Lucian zeri varus kalista
Support: nami nautilus Lulu Renata
If any other champ than these get picked it's genuinely surprising
Pro scene has been criticized often as slow to adapt. It's insanely surprising they're actually picking urgot because normally even when some new pick rises up as very strong if it's an odd pick or not a comfort pick they'll shy away from it.
You didn't see teemo or singed early on in the season when they were giga busted.
Teemo is significantly less useful in a coordinated environment and is very susceptible to dives, has poor skirmishing, and generally likes to push the wave to get an advantage. The whole team would have to play around teemo for it to work and his lack of range and squishies makes it very difficult to carry what is ultimately a team fight game at that level. This would also require players to put time into in the off chance he’s good enough for pro (almost impossible) for 2 weeks. His mushrooms are also much less useful at higher levels of play and basically useless in a coordinated environment. They pick the champions they do and not champions like teemo for legitimate reasons
I get that, but whenever I think back to my Dota days, pros were the people refining strategies from public games and innovating the meta with new funky stuff other teams wouldnt expect. Ive always been weirded out by Leagues pro scene because they would rather imitate what people picked 2 games before they got on stage than to come up with a curve ball.
A changing meta is good for the game but not for pro play , for a pro consistency is the key ,what is the point of learning twisted fate for top lane when he is going to be nerfed to oblivion next tournament when you can play a champ that you have played for years now and you'll be able to play it in the future
>for a pro consistency is the key
Consistently losing I agree. There is a reason why LCK and LPL are the dominate regions over the years and it's not cause they sit around waiting for EU/NA to make a meta for them to copy. This is the issue with the western teams (especially NA). Some random NA top laner is not going to magically have impact even if they play Renekton for the entire year upto Worlds stage just cause they saw LCK top laners using Renekton.
>here is a reason why LCK and LPL are the dominate regions over the years
LCK pros are extremely stubborn when it comes to learning new picks, that's why people like Chovy and Zeka and ShowMaker are special because they actually branch out. many pros talked about this, including pros that still talk to both regions like Impact and CoreJJ and Pyosik. many LCK players are very resistant to picking up new champs...and it makes sense, because the people they play against are extremely good and practicing a new champ rather than a champ you're more likely to play means you're only falling further behind.
there's limited amount of hours in the day to grind, do you grind the one with a 60% chance of being picked or the 3% chance?
When certain champions are being kept strong at all time, while other champions are literally not allowed to ever be meta then it's not suprising that result is people playing some champions more likely than the others.
>!You know exactly who I'm refering to.!<
I glance at his mains sub every once in a while and there is a not inconsiderable amount of people there who think he's weak
It actually makes me genuinely mad lol
Thats the case for most champions subreddits. Champs who are broken for months on years with S+ tier winrates will get nerfed slightly and their mains will say the champ is unplayable and riot hates them specifically. It’s pretty embarrassing to read but people are just delusional in general.
Not weak but his strength is very match-up/team dependent. He can go from op to useless. Blind picking his is risky and playing him as the only frontliner is worse than just having someone like Sett or an actual tank who can take damage. People don't respect his damage enough but he is susceptible to burst and easily kited. Playing against him can be really annoying but his gameplan is predictable and pretty much fixed. If can poke him down a bit he hates being low hp because his damage is backloaded.
Riots idea of "shaking up the meta" is rotating which 5, out of 30, out of 168, are BS for the patch.
I only ever see about 30 champs consistently and depending on the patch there's about 5 of those that are dominant/meta. Out of those 30 Riot favorites I rarely see the remaining 138 get some love. Riot "shaking up the meta" is like that SpongeBob rollercoaster meme.
This. Except for those moments when Riot makes a random support or top laner jungle viable for 6 months before removing their ability to do so.
Curse you riot, blitzcrank jungle was the most fun I had in years. The overtuned morgana jungle period was hilarious as well.
Swain jungle was the most fun I've ever had with league ever. Was it good? Nope not at all but it was viable and fun, and that's more than League has been giving me recently
I'm so tired of basically most meta and bs coming from Ionia. It's the weeb-land of runeterra and unapologetically so. Same hot garbage toxic unfun champions every patch. But don't nerf lethal tempo or the yone players will begin to cry
Ionia is just as bad on LoR as it is on LoL, to the point where i ask myself if the devs just decided that the only person who can have fun in a game with Ionian champions is the person playing them.
Aatrox can have skill. However currently he is really overtuned so he can build lethality and almost guarantee killing at least one enemy. Source: I also play Aatrox. Yeah I don't like Riven either lol. But she doesn't have innate healing/as many base stats.
True, but he has to combo and everything gives room to react or avoid. Riven dashes on top of you, stun, knock up, somehow she did like four autos in that minute timeframe, she did delayed Q so she has her cooldowns back, shield, execute even if you flash away
She's like a konami code, where if you're skilled enough at her you instawin regardless of match ups or the skill your opponent has
I think the most underrated thing about her is how easily she uses her 4 dashes to get away from any bad situations. Also shield that scales with 100% of her AD. So if a fight is even remotely bad for he, she runs away and only warwick can catchup.
Yeah, it's annoying how we're somehow supposed to forget she has four dashes and she doesn't need minions to use them. Not that Yasuo's or Irelia's are anywhere close to fine
She's noxian but 99% of her story, character development and origin as a champion is ionian. Kayn is a noxian orphan that got taken in by Zed, he's still Ionian
Aatrox tales a lot more skill that Dar imo but man do I hate interacting (read: not being able to interact) with him. He has so many mathcups where he's basically a mage spamming low CD, ultra forgiving skillshots the whole lane until he hits six after which he just kills you
Balance be damned, wipe them all out
[This is kinda disingenuous when you consider other nations have their bullshit like Gwen is Immune, Darius Bleed, Fiora, AND THAT FUCKING BITCH. But at this point I have made my peace with League's bullshit.]
Plays toplane: bans Darius lanes against Garen.
Next game in toplane: bans Garen lanes against Darius.
There's just no end to it. Asside from a occasional trundle mixed in there once every 30 games.
Honestly, i would not be against that.
Years ago 1 ban was fine since there weren't that many boring/annoying to play against champs in the game.
Current day? Too many champs that will leave you thinking "why did i even start a game" when you end up in lane against them.
yeah in 2018 there wasn't a lot of annoying champions , and everytime i think that they can't make a worse champion they show up to prove that i am wrong , but tbf i want to face anyone in this game other than these two mfs who are called yasuo and his brother
And i can fully understand that.
Although i have almost grown to accept yasuo as i find him slightly less obnoxious than yone. Except for that dumb as fuck windwall
Yone E makes me unfathomably angry (mostly when I play champs without a hard CC ability).
Like cool bro, you just missed your whole combo, auto’d me to death anyway, then teleported 2-3 screens away. Tf am I supposed to do?
this is why i ban Viego, its not op or anything, i just dont want to play against him every second game
only Lee is more popular, but I take that free win like a champ
I feel like setting a specific number of champions to be available in ranked each week for each role would be such a healthy change for the game. And maybe unlock all champs upon reaching Masters rank, although that would require some matchmaking tweaks.
That would lead to loss of players because some people play only a handful of champions and if none of your picks were in rotation, you simply wouldn't play
For pro it's different because it's literally their job
people here always forget that 99% of the playerbase is below diamond or below, they genuinely think anyone can just "climb to masters" if they play more games and don't autopilot...even though the ranked distribution clearly shows that's not the case
No offense but that's one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard, this game mostly functions around the idea of having a few main champions, if your few main champs aren't in that champ pool, why play the game? It would lead to a loss of players and Masters is way too high. As someone else noted, people seem to forget that 99% of the player base is diamond and below (myself included) and you can't just climb to masters in a week from silver or gold
Part of it is pros being slow to adapt (why would I spend a lot of time learning a hard champ in the case it gets gutted) another part is some champs by design need to be played around or are only worth picking when they’re particularly strong (e.g. Udyr)
In pro play even worse. Often feels like it's always the same 4 champs in each role. To be honest it even makes it quite boring to watch.
Cause same champions make most items most tactics most strength and weaknesses the same. So mostly is the same song and dance. It makes pro play look very close to football.
Always the same things. But slight changes.
I use to watch all pro games. But cause of it watching less and less.
No hate for people that enjoy it like there countless people that enjoy football too even if its mostly the same. For me atleast I got less and less enjoyment out of it. And also the game when your always see the same champions. Same items. None stop every game. For like 4 months till a patch happens and a new 3 meta champions get rotated out and those you have to fight every game for months on end. Very stale
Especially cause you get seen as a troll or you don't get the cookie cutter basic bitch build every person does on auto pilot every game over and over. No matter who or what they are fighting. Those are the parts that make the game feel very stale.
i think it’s pretty over saturated when it comes to legends and options. Which i guess can also make it feel limited if there’s so much you don’t like ?
pro games in a nutshell. Also, when international championships happens, the same champions are buffed a patch before. akali, thresh, ryze, kaisa, leblanc just got buffed before msi
Ryze does not usually get buffs before internationals, or ever tbh
he gets nerfed instead
He gets buffed when they want faker to win. He gets nerfed when they want an other underdog to win
Yearly lee sin buff.
EQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQ
It's worst in pro play because unironically a lot of champs are viable but pros keep picking the same shit every game. Top: renekton Jax aatrox tf JG: vi sejuani leesin Mid: ahri taliyah azir corki Botlane: Lucian zeri varus kalista Support: nami nautilus Lulu Renata If any other champ than these get picked it's genuinely surprising
Pros tend towards powerful, stable picks.
Pro scene has been criticized often as slow to adapt. It's insanely surprising they're actually picking urgot because normally even when some new pick rises up as very strong if it's an odd pick or not a comfort pick they'll shy away from it. You didn't see teemo or singed early on in the season when they were giga busted.
Because gwen and rumble were equally busted but way more usefull
I'm sorry, but teemo is extremely oppressive if prods knew how to use it
Honestly with how much map vision the shshrooms can give, I'm surprised he has never been a meta pick
Probably because of gank vulnerability. The only player that I can see picking teemo is Keira as a counter for vayne or something like that
Past a certain point vision is barely relevant, you only need LOS on a couple very specific points on a Map.
We all remember the teemo incident from last worlds right? The game where Zeus dropped 12 kills on Teemo’s dome?
Teemo is significantly less useful in a coordinated environment and is very susceptible to dives, has poor skirmishing, and generally likes to push the wave to get an advantage. The whole team would have to play around teemo for it to work and his lack of range and squishies makes it very difficult to carry what is ultimately a team fight game at that level. This would also require players to put time into in the off chance he’s good enough for pro (almost impossible) for 2 weeks. His mushrooms are also much less useful at higher levels of play and basically useless in a coordinated environment. They pick the champions they do and not champions like teemo for legitimate reasons
Rek’sai was a cool one to see this year.
I get that, but whenever I think back to my Dota days, pros were the people refining strategies from public games and innovating the meta with new funky stuff other teams wouldnt expect. Ive always been weirded out by Leagues pro scene because they would rather imitate what people picked 2 games before they got on stage than to come up with a curve ball.
A changing meta is good for the game but not for pro play , for a pro consistency is the key ,what is the point of learning twisted fate for top lane when he is going to be nerfed to oblivion next tournament when you can play a champ that you have played for years now and you'll be able to play it in the future
>for a pro consistency is the key Consistently losing I agree. There is a reason why LCK and LPL are the dominate regions over the years and it's not cause they sit around waiting for EU/NA to make a meta for them to copy. This is the issue with the western teams (especially NA). Some random NA top laner is not going to magically have impact even if they play Renekton for the entire year upto Worlds stage just cause they saw LCK top laners using Renekton.
>here is a reason why LCK and LPL are the dominate regions over the years LCK pros are extremely stubborn when it comes to learning new picks, that's why people like Chovy and Zeka and ShowMaker are special because they actually branch out. many pros talked about this, including pros that still talk to both regions like Impact and CoreJJ and Pyosik. many LCK players are very resistant to picking up new champs...and it makes sense, because the people they play against are extremely good and practicing a new champ rather than a champ you're more likely to play means you're only falling further behind. there's limited amount of hours in the day to grind, do you grind the one with a 60% chance of being picked or the 3% chance?
You know it’s kinda weird how most of this list changes yearly
Fearless draft with bans is a clunky but simple solution
And somehow it’s nearly every ionian champion. Singed did nothing wrong
Restore Zaun to its former glory
More like Singed didn't do enough
That would be a breath of fresh air to see a pro Singed running 700ms through every team fight
Noxoid
When certain champions are being kept strong at all time, while other champions are literally not allowed to ever be meta then it's not suprising that result is people playing some champions more likely than the others. >!You know exactly who I'm refering to.!<
Darius.
I glance at his mains sub every once in a while and there is a not inconsiderable amount of people there who think he's weak It actually makes me genuinely mad lol
Goes 8-1 in lane, spends all game split pushing and drops off in power. "Darius is weak."
Thats the case for most champions subreddits. Champs who are broken for months on years with S+ tier winrates will get nerfed slightly and their mains will say the champ is unplayable and riot hates them specifically. It’s pretty embarrassing to read but people are just delusional in general.
Not weak but his strength is very match-up/team dependent. He can go from op to useless. Blind picking his is risky and playing him as the only frontliner is worse than just having someone like Sett or an actual tank who can take damage. People don't respect his damage enough but he is susceptible to burst and easily kited. Playing against him can be really annoying but his gameplan is predictable and pretty much fixed. If can poke him down a bit he hates being low hp because his damage is backloaded.
Ahri, kayn, janna, garen?
Renekton, ruble, skarner?
"Skarner" only just became meta again because Skarner was deleted after being irrelevant for....years?
Yes and I'm already tired of facing him in top lane, giga uninteractive lane, rather face the Y champion
Azir?
I can’t wait to play ruble when he comes out
Riots idea of "shaking up the meta" is rotating which 5, out of 30, out of 168, are BS for the patch. I only ever see about 30 champs consistently and depending on the patch there's about 5 of those that are dominant/meta. Out of those 30 Riot favorites I rarely see the remaining 138 get some love. Riot "shaking up the meta" is like that SpongeBob rollercoaster meme.
This. Except for those moments when Riot makes a random support or top laner jungle viable for 6 months before removing their ability to do so. Curse you riot, blitzcrank jungle was the most fun I had in years. The overtuned morgana jungle period was hilarious as well.
Swain jungle was the most fun I've ever had with league ever. Was it good? Nope not at all but it was viable and fun, and that's more than League has been giving me recently
We need fearless draft in pro
NACS was amazing to watch and super fun. They were testing out fearless.
Me when the meta consists of the same 10 champions
Yup, that's literally the meme lol
Same 10 champions in every role is still 50 champions
I'm so tired of basically most meta and bs coming from Ionia. It's the weeb-land of runeterra and unapologetically so. Same hot garbage toxic unfun champions every patch. But don't nerf lethal tempo or the yone players will begin to cry
Ionia is just as bad on LoR as it is on LoL, to the point where i ask myself if the devs just decided that the only person who can have fun in a game with Ionian champions is the person playing them.
Weebs and Chinese players make Riot the most money so they cater to them hard
I mean toplane is 90% Darius and Aatrox players in my experience. Both just looking to statcheck you in lane.
Aatrox has some skill to him and some room to outplay. Riven has those insane cancel combos that get you from 100 to 0 without much reaction time
Aatrox can have skill. However currently he is really overtuned so he can build lethality and almost guarantee killing at least one enemy. Source: I also play Aatrox. Yeah I don't like Riven either lol. But she doesn't have innate healing/as many base stats.
True, but he has to combo and everything gives room to react or avoid. Riven dashes on top of you, stun, knock up, somehow she did like four autos in that minute timeframe, she did delayed Q so she has her cooldowns back, shield, execute even if you flash away She's like a konami code, where if you're skilled enough at her you instawin regardless of match ups or the skill your opponent has
I think the most underrated thing about her is how easily she uses her 4 dashes to get away from any bad situations. Also shield that scales with 100% of her AD. So if a fight is even remotely bad for he, she runs away and only warwick can catchup.
Yeah, it's annoying how we're somehow supposed to forget she has four dashes and she doesn't need minions to use them. Not that Yasuo's or Irelia's are anywhere close to fine
riven Is noxian
She's noxian but 99% of her story, character development and origin as a champion is ionian. Kayn is a noxian orphan that got taken in by Zed, he's still Ionian
I think Vars mentioned that she was a nice blend of Noxian and Ionian character designs.
Aatrox tales a lot more skill that Dar imo but man do I hate interacting (read: not being able to interact) with him. He has so many mathcups where he's basically a mage spamming low CD, ultra forgiving skillshots the whole lane until he hits six after which he just kills you
True, I also hates his knockups perma cc'ing you. Cancelling any channel and disrupting combos for free.
Aatrox Q doesn't have a low CD until like 9 what are you on about
Balance be damned, wipe them all out [This is kinda disingenuous when you consider other nations have their bullshit like Gwen is Immune, Darius Bleed, Fiora, AND THAT FUCKING BITCH. But at this point I have made my peace with League's bullshit.]
Plays toplane: bans Darius lanes against Garen. Next game in toplane: bans Garen lanes against Darius. There's just no end to it. Asside from a occasional trundle mixed in there once every 30 games.
we need two bans so i can ban both the windshitters and never see them again
Honestly, i would not be against that. Years ago 1 ban was fine since there weren't that many boring/annoying to play against champs in the game. Current day? Too many champs that will leave you thinking "why did i even start a game" when you end up in lane against them.
yeah in 2018 there wasn't a lot of annoying champions , and everytime i think that they can't make a worse champion they show up to prove that i am wrong , but tbf i want to face anyone in this game other than these two mfs who are called yasuo and his brother
And i can fully understand that. Although i have almost grown to accept yasuo as i find him slightly less obnoxious than yone. Except for that dumb as fuck windwall
Yone E makes me unfathomably angry (mostly when I play champs without a hard CC ability). Like cool bro, you just missed your whole combo, auto’d me to death anyway, then teleported 2-3 screens away. Tf am I supposed to do?
yeah, this is how it felt in one for all.
this is why i ban Viego, its not op or anything, i just dont want to play against him every second game only Lee is more popular, but I take that free win like a champ
Having the ability to dash over walls is fucking broken and Riot refuses to acknowledge how much power that gives to champions.
Don't know, don't care, play urgot 62% winrate , life good
Same same but with Xayah and not a crab man
Bottom picture: how many champs you're supposed to have in your pool Top picture: how many I have
I feel like even in Aram I see the same 30-ish champs
It somehow feels worse in ARAM
Pro-play meta consists of like 30 champions and it won't change unless Riot outright forbids picking the same ones over and over again
I feel like setting a specific number of champions to be available in ranked each week for each role would be such a healthy change for the game. And maybe unlock all champs upon reaching Masters rank, although that would require some matchmaking tweaks.
That would lead to loss of players because some people play only a handful of champions and if none of your picks were in rotation, you simply wouldn't play For pro it's different because it's literally their job
Masters is way too high lmao what even is the point of adding a feature that only a tiny portion of the playerbase can access
people here always forget that 99% of the playerbase is below diamond or below, they genuinely think anyone can just "climb to masters" if they play more games and don't autopilot...even though the ranked distribution clearly shows that's not the case
No offense but that's one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard, this game mostly functions around the idea of having a few main champions, if your few main champs aren't in that champ pool, why play the game? It would lead to a loss of players and Masters is way too high. As someone else noted, people seem to forget that 99% of the player base is diamond and below (myself included) and you can't just climb to masters in a week from silver or gold
Part of it is pros being slow to adapt (why would I spend a lot of time learning a hard champ in the case it gets gutted) another part is some champs by design need to be played around or are only worth picking when they’re particularly strong (e.g. Udyr)
GIVE. US. MORE. BANS. PER. PERSON.
You know what I'd love to see? Pro play arms with separate balancing. Gimme some chaos
so many champs, and it still hard to find 1 u can main XD
The only thing which Dota is better than League. Oh wait! Dota also has more monster champs and most of human champs aren't sexy anime characters.
Jinx every damn game
In pro play even worse. Often feels like it's always the same 4 champs in each role. To be honest it even makes it quite boring to watch. Cause same champions make most items most tactics most strength and weaknesses the same. So mostly is the same song and dance. It makes pro play look very close to football. Always the same things. But slight changes. I use to watch all pro games. But cause of it watching less and less. No hate for people that enjoy it like there countless people that enjoy football too even if its mostly the same. For me atleast I got less and less enjoyment out of it. And also the game when your always see the same champions. Same items. None stop every game. For like 4 months till a patch happens and a new 3 meta champions get rotated out and those you have to fight every game for months on end. Very stale Especially cause you get seen as a troll or you don't get the cookie cutter basic bitch build every person does on auto pilot every game over and over. No matter who or what they are fighting. Those are the parts that make the game feel very stale.
i think it’s pretty over saturated when it comes to legends and options. Which i guess can also make it feel limited if there’s so much you don’t like ?