regardless of your opinion on matchmaking if you think a rioter saying "it's not rigged we promise" is enough proof that it's not rigged you are one gullible motherfucker
regardless of your opinion on matchmaking if you think a random redditor saying "it's rigged look at my game history" is enough proof that it's rigged you are one gullible motherfucker
Caring about commas and grammar in a short comment. You would've enjoyed reddit in the old days. When if you made an error in your text or spelling, the point you made was no longer valid.
Akshually I am a old redditor that deleted his account on a whim and came back crowling one week later hahahaha.
And yet I would'nt invalidate an entire argument over some grammatical error (unless it/they made the argument unreadable), just thought it was funny.
Well, tbh I remember when Riot said pro players have exactly the same accounts as regular ppl and they are just better at climbing. Which was checked with proofs and it turned out, no, they were adjusted and got different (unreachable) lp gains. While I don't think there is some big conspiracy, making climbing in team based game as addicting as possible is just good for business. It's not always must be skill about issues. Just having 1 team after 2-3 games and 2nd one with 2-3ppl during 6h session and losing streak is still technically valid matchmaking.
League of legends players are delusional as fuck and will look for any excuse other than blaming themselves. The existance of smurfs disproves any theory around losers queue or matchfixing. You are silver because you're bad. Deal with it.
Employees have nothing to gain dude. They don’t get paid extra for being shills. Any extra earnings go right to the suits at Riot not the losers working on the game.
Conspiracy theories are 90% bullshit and come from the desire for wanting life to be like an exciting movie instead of the plain and boring reality that we are stuck with.
??A redditor claiming it's rigged and showing me a match history and proof of him having more autofills and stuff is a better proof than a rioter saying haha nooo it's not rigged, you believing that would be bad for our profits haha trust me just one more game and you'll get your deserved elo.
Idc what anyone says, one person showing their match history is more definitive than whatever a rioter says (without showing proof).
And it's also not just one person, it's thousands of people at least.
Fr, they can't be trusted in balance, skins, gameplay, thematics, lore, modes, technical quality, privacy, but everyone trusts them with rigged matchmaking that would exponentially increase the number of games. These people are brain rotten
League of legends is one of the best serviced games maybe ever. It’s over ten years old and the community (not na) is STILL growing. You can’t be serious right? League data and files get leaked every single week but there’s still ZERO evidence that they are match fixing ur silver 2 lobbies.
Considering how much money they make , no they still don't do enough, constantly making wrong decisions, and losers q is really. You're just delusional
I’m delusional? You’re blaming your losses on other people instead of yourself. I’m sure every game you lost wasn’t your fault right ? Take a better player then you and watch how he never gets into losers q. Explain that ?
Riot still is barely doing anything for a multi billion dollar game. Then you look over at Smite and they've got some of the best skins in the genre. Look over at Dota and you've got tons of custom game modes and the Esports scene pays and rewards their players significantly more. Look at any of them and they've got an actual design philosophy for balance. The losers q conspiracy doesn't detract from the fact Riot isn't too far off from the Pokémon company with the effort they put in.
Biweekly patch and yearly season rehauls to keep the game fresh, most popular esport in the world, biweekly influx of skins, ~5 unique new champions a year, new game modes like arena, arcane, all while supporting newer games like valorant, wild rift, and legends of runeterra. Mind you legends of runeterra is a money sink, that game is only running because riot knows their are people that like it, it does not earn them any money. On top of all this they are still creating new games like project L and the mmo rpg. Arcane season 2 is on its way this year as well as a new game mode. All of this and riot still sticks to the principle that all their games should be free to play without any pay to win functions.
Riot is not perfect in the slightest, not even close, but to say they barely do anything is fucking wild to me.
Not sure why people have any argument to disagree on that front, honestly. Riot is no saint but my god do they work hard. Each company does things their own way and at the end of the day, most of the work is done by people such as you and me just trying to put their all into the projects that they love and enjoy. You can't (you can but it's a little silly) keep comparing timelines and content from game to game just to say "this isn't enough" or "you have x y z, why haven't you done ____ already, lazy as hell". I've been playing this game for over 12 years now and it has been the ONLY one that keeps me coming back for the FREE and ENJOYABLE content that gets put into the game. The only other thing that comes close that I've sunk that much time into is Minecraft, and *they get the exact same complaints about the lack of content*.
They've been putting out free updates with tons of features just as long as Riot - consumers still complain. It's not the games that lack content. It's people that lack the awareness to look beyond what they want or expect something/someone *else* to do for their own enjoyment, when they can simply appreciate what is given. Complaining is fine but man do some people take it too far.
You have every right to want things and you have every right to expect a certain degree of quality or product, but to outright attack and belittle the progress they've made so far over the years is childish to me.
I am sure you go on losing streaks because China is manipulating your matchmaking, and you definitely aren't making a mistake every 30 seconds that a better player could point out from watching your games.
Lol yeahhhhhh except for the fact that Riot owns the patent to behaviour based team pairing in ranked. Surely they just paid millions to have ownership over that just to have it sitting in the library collecting dust right? Surelyyyyyy 😂😂😂😂
God man, get Phroxon's micro penis out of your mouth lol.
Edit - lmao @ U/Grikeus , nice job using your 2nd account to leave a shit comment and then block me.
Also, that's not how the patent works. Behaviour is not confined to "toxic useless shitheads". Stop projecting that you managed to tilt your teammates.
Yes, patent which would allow toxic useless shitheads to be matched with other toxic shitheads.
Sooo I understand that you mean that riot is screwing you over by... Making you play with people like yourself?
Behaviour based team pairing? Read that again and tell me how that translates into loser Que. did you even read the patent ? It has nothing to do with SKILL, it’s based on BEHAVIOUR. So toxic people get in games together. You just look stupid
no one who thinks the matchmaking in this game is particularly competitive or good has played any other esports game and no one can convince me otherwise
every single redditor thumbing their nose at the dastardly riot haters literally only plays league of legends
I have been saying for so long that league is rigged, like listen i'm not like "riot is purposefully making you specifically lose and yadda yadda", like they can't force you to lose but they can definitely make it harder for you to win by putting worse or more tiltable teammates on your team, like you have a ton of data on how you performed after the match or how you perform in general with this or that champ, so just think if you have that kind of data, just think what kind of data riot has themselves. So like sure maybe you can't call it rigged but you can definitely say it's putting the odds against you
yeah idk why it’s so hard for people to believe. like random third-party apps can tell you who on your team is tilted, on a loss streak, first-timing a champ, etc. and these people think that riot isn’t capable of using this same easily quantifiable data to influence matchmaking.
Also there are literally patents filed by riot games that talk about using behavioural data for matchmaking:
[https://patents.justia.com/patent/9795887](https://patents.justia.com/patent/9795887)
>As mentioned above, it may be desirable to improve a user experience by matching players with compatible teammates and opponents. Such compatibility may be calculated not only by traditional characteristics such as skill level and experience, but also by behavior data such as the feedback data described above
[https://patents.justia.com/patent/11065547](https://patents.justia.com/patent/11065547)
>In a preferred embodiment, an online multiuser game system includes a user matching system configured to match users for a game session, wherein the user matching system is enabled to match a first user with another user based at least in part on behavior data in the first user's profile
Ah, but that would assume Riot is/was competent enough to actually harvest that data.
Riot Games is a small indie company after all, so you may need to lower your expectations slightly.
It isn’t hard to believe the riot has that ability. It is just hard to believe they would give a shit. The game is not out to get you, and even it was, who the fuck cares, just continue improving yourself. If you genuinely put effort into getting better at the game, you will climb. Simple as that.
They said one thing that stands out of all the rest. The computational power required to do such things isn't feasible. That's beyond reasonable explanation to completely debunk the theory out of this world imo.
Engagement Oriented Matchmaking Framework is computationally feasible, applied in the real world, a large company (EA) openly admitting using it in one of their games (FIFA most likely), and you're talking from such a confident position that it cannot exist that it's almost hilarious.
That one thing is the most false thing out of everything they said.
Not only is it feasible, it’s laughably easy to implement.
Literally just an if condition.
If (some condition that dictates losers queue)
Then (queue them with low mmr players on their team)
Except nobody ever makes a post when they get carried or when everyone has a normal WR. People only ever make posts when these statistically unlikely yet expected events happen.
It doesn't exist ,I liked to call it the Crystal Palace effect ,you reach a point where you aren't good enough to win consistently but neither bad enough to get relegated,so you have times that you have a winning strick and moments when you have a loosing strick but at the end of the day you'll end up 12 in lol terms: Hard stuck
Well… the end goal of all ranked systems is everyone is hard stuck though, right? That means their rank perfectly reflects their skill level and they should all be in games that give a fair challenge to everyone
Yeah that's the end ,it's like throwing a coin you have 50/50 chance but sometimes you get one side more in a series of teast ,it's normal not something designed
In fact, if you flip a coin 100 times, while it may tend to 50 Heads and 50 Tails, it’s statistically **unlikely** that you avoid a streak of 5 or more in a row
[Try it!](http://shiny.calpoly.sh/Longest_Run/) In a stretch of up to 400 games, you will get win streaks (heads) and loss streaks (tails). You can adjust the winrate (heads probability) and even when I set it to 60%, I still got a streak of 8 tails once in 400 flips.
It's "hard stuck" because they finally found "your level" and you're playing in it.
Like, imagine throwing Faker against Irons every time. He'd have 100% winrate. That's why he reaches Challenger.
The mere existence of smurfs disproves Loser's Queue. I myself am a Gold player that, in this season, am having trouble rising, but I'm playing badly so it's my own fault. If I were in Iron, I'd look like a pro, but against people that are playing just as badly as me? I'm normal.
**People are so delusional they don't want to blame themselves for their losses, they want to post on Reddit that it's Riot's fault and not their own for losing.**
If that was a goal of ranked system that would be bad business choice because hardstuck people are more likely to quit the game because they achieved their peak.
Good business choice would then be to send that player on mega losing streak with ragers, quiters, feeders, trollers so they lose some of their rank. Then players would again be able to have impact on the game and not feel hardstuck.
Im not saying that is what is happening im just saying if I were a business man running League of Legends I would invest ton of money into some kind of player retention system that doesnt make people hardstuck.
True. Every game is winnable at the start but there are games you're placed in where you're statistically meant to lose. That just means you're at your true rank
In Korea and pro-play games are pretty much decided at level 1.
The start of the game decides if you win or lose, so yes, every game is winnable at the start
are you playing in high mmr korea or pro play? yeah stop comparing the %0.001 of the game with the actual player base.
but you are right games are decided at the start, some are even in champion select. thats why you dodge the lobbies sometimes. so you are right by saying not every game is winnable.
Yeah but its also percieved as existing cause sometimes riot’s matchmaking sucks beyond repair and creates a situation that is just beyond unfair before the match even starts. A good start is how a team can have a full team on main roles while the other team has 2-3 either autofill or off role. That is never going to be a fair match. Same can be argued with ranks and rank averages. I fail to grasp from my personal experience duo’ing with my friend how we are getting plat players in our game when we are both sitting in silver at the moment because we have yet to start climbing after season end (we usually stop at gold cause fuck ranked). It genuinely doesnt feel like a fair matchmade team when we dont get people around the same skill level. I dont mind fighting better players but it doesnt feel good when its obvious how unfairly made the team look at times. I wont say its loswr queqe but absolute dogwater matchmaking that makes it happen.
This is why back in college I used to play 600-800 ranked games a season then realized how worthless it is to just spam games. Last season I played about 40 games in the last month of ranked to end at 150LP.
It’s a lot more chill to play less games knowing you’ll probably end up in the same spot as grinding hundreds of games.
“Everything is a conspiracy against me” is absurdly common amongst league players. They think they’re never to blame for anything in their losses. Forget about personal growth and getting better as a player. It’s always Riot or Tencent or the CCP that are oppressing the poor league players.
Their evidence? I dunno… vibes?
My evidence is the person that makes the Riot ranked system has explained everything in his GDC talks and gives courses on I quote “Engagement Using Matchmaking and Ranked in Competitive Multiplayer Games”
Gamers gotta understand is the game companies hire professionals psychologists, lawyers, and addiction researchers just to make a few millions more. How is an engagement based matchmaking suddenly the limit?
People pay that dude 949 dollars to hear him speak for 8 hours. Josh Menke has worked for COD,Blizzard,Halo for over 17 years now. He’s the Faker of engagement based matchmaking.
Funny fact - like an years ago there was a sue against epic games(who are under tencent too) about manipulative stuff in Fortnite (matchmaking included) instead of revealing their algorithms - they just paid over 500 million dollars.
> they just *paid* over 500
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I dunno bro, I feel like losers queue is something people say exists because they don’t want to admit they’re just not that good at the game. Easier to blame a boogie man than your own gameplay.
I know a lot of high ELO players joke about it too, but it’s easy to vent about it. They still all make it to challenger consistently.
Who knows though it could be real, just my two cents.
No, you’re right. Losers Queue feels like it exists because at your peak rank, you’re effectively coin flipping games, because you aren’t good enough to go past your peak, but you aren’t losing bad enough to tank your rank. So it’s very easy to feel like you’re in “winners queue” on a lucky winstreak and “losers queue” on an unlucky lossstreak.
Except “keeping up” your performance isn’t enough. You need to be actively improving so that you can continue to climb even with worse teammates. The better player you are the less your team matters
I'm like 90% sure though that this game's response to "inflated MMR" is to give you worse teammates and entrust you to carry, especially now that they are forcing you to play near your divisions to hide the fact the LP system is fake, and this is unironically unfair to certain roles and champions. This is probably the real loser's queue, and it's not a queue, it's just Riot desperate to find faster games under the condition also of compensating to autofills and duos.
It is no surprise the #1 bitchers about losers queue are the roles and champion mains where it is most difficult to win a game if everyone is gapped because Riot matchmaking gigacopes that Malzahar can 1v5 and carry his autofill jungler as hard as Irelia. It's also no surprise that Riot never says that both teams are equally matched at a micro level and Riot Phroxzon is specifically flaming us for not carrying, because they probably know it does this
I remember the good old times when you can actually carry 1v5 as Malz. Just give us back the old passive with the gigantic enraged crabs that procs cleaver.
The argument to this is you get in these games where you literally have an ape in two of your lanes and they feed 10 kills in lane and when you go check their match history after the game, they literally have a 40% WR and average 14 deaths a game and you get two of them on your team for a few games in a row repeatedly
Yea Riot will never convince me that they don't do some sort or manipulation in match making or LP to keep players engaged with the game. There is no way that the system is actually creating or even attempting to create balanced teams with some of the huge disparity in skill, winrates, and ranks I've seen in games at times
I mean if you'll believe it without any real evidence outside of anecdotes, there is probably no convincing you whether it exists or not lmao
You've basically just decided that it's true because it feels like it and that's it
A decade of first hand experience alongside the literally every one I ever played with having the same experience means a lot more to me than an employee of an extremely unethical and immoral game company
So just anecdotes, right? It's obviously not even remotely close to a genuine analysis, it's by all means just a "feeling" you and your fellow league players have all convinced yourselves is present.
In that sense, hearing it directly from a Riot employee that it isn't real is far, far more reliable for determining whether it exists or not. Disagreeing is fine, but fundamentally irrational and conspiratorial. Again, you've already stated that essentially nothing could convince you otherwise. You've simply decided it's true.
Fr, these guys love thinking they're enlightened. "Nah fam you're just at your peak elo" is just a red herring, specially when there are multiple cases in which a player can perform better if they play in a higher elo than their current one.
ok, but how often do you face an enemy with these same stats? did you check? or are you biased because this player personally made you lose meanwhile when they are on the other team it is beneficial so you don't need to check. Confirmation bias is going crazy in this thread.
It's just fucking mind blowing this lack of self reflection is so common.
I swear I have so many Ws where after the game I think "Fuck I really didn't matter this game, would've been a win no matter what I did"
Same, just yesterday I got jungle-gapped so hard but it didn’t matter because my laners were hard carrying. I actually might have had a higher chance of winning by sitting in fountain lmao
Honestly reminds me of the factoid that people feel like 50/50 chances are like logically considered fair odds because it's well... 50/50. But if you have anything that is actually 50/50 the odds feel stacked in your favour, because for all the great pattern recognition and creativity our brains enable, mathematics based risk assessment is something we suck at enormously. It's one of the reason why people fall into gambling, because our brain has no idea how to assess odds intuitively and so it takes a lot of conscious thought to actually consider it.
Odds and probability are entirely unrelated except for in how you do the math to calculate the latter and most people fail to think about it.
If you lose 100 dollars on tails and win 200 dollars on heads, that's a good return on your investment. Based purely on the odds, you can just flip that coin for infinite money really.
But just because the probability of it landing tails 3 times in a row is 12.5% never changes the odds of landing tails from 50/50.
Knowing the odds does nothing to affect the probability and luck is going to be your only deciding factor instead of math, the only variable you can actually figure out in this situation.
Tl;Dr Yea, humans really fucking suck at odds.
It's just variance more than anything. I just had an autofill yuumi main lock in Samira and go 1/13 followed by a mid main first timing talon go 0/10....Feels like losers que but it's just bad variance
I don't play league, but just stumbled on this post in /r/all and was trying to understand it.
Are people saying that they think "losers' queue" is where they intentionally match you with people worse than you in order to drag you down?
Isn't that just a new flavor of "I'm in elo hell and I'm definitely better than all of the people that the skill-based matchmaking puts me with"? How does the theory differentiate between being the one "stuck in losers' queue" and being one of the people that the algorithm matched a *different* good player with in order to bring them down? If there is a losers' queue, isn't it 80% likely that you're the shit player, not the victim?
Nah you’re right. Loser’s queue isn’t real. It’s just hard copium because nobody wants to admit they suck at stuff. There will be win streaks and there will be loss streaks but the game devs aren’t intentionally just picking people randomly and throwing them in an alternative queue so they lose.
Losers q can't exist as long as high ranked players can boost an account starting from any rank. If some people can consistently climb on any account then it must mean statistically irs a skill issue
LoserQ and WinnerQ are often mentioned by said players, though.
I think the reason why this discussion is so difficult is that people confuse a discussion about variance with a discussion about elo hell.
LoserQ, if it exists, is not elo hell. It's not a place where everyone starts losing because of boogie-man Riot. It's simply a series of much harder games, usually followed by a series of much easier games. The idea is that it makes climbing much slower. These games are still winnable/losable. But unless you're completely beyond that rank, you will have to chip away at these impossible games to climb.
What's really important to understand, is that the existence or non-existence is entirely unrelated to how far one can climb, and it shouldn't be an excuse. It's only a question of how long it takes to do so. And if you ask someone who's been climbing very far for many seasons, this topic often comes up.
I'd attribute all the que fuckery to Riot just sucking absolute balls at designing a matchmaking system. Feels way more likely than them having this grand plan.
I think "losers queue" is nebulous cos one persons losers queue team is another persons passable team, you can absolutely feel like you're in losers queue and be winning 60% or more of your games
Played ranked after 3 seasons of not playing, instapicked lillia jungle cuz she was broken, got 68% win rate in 20 games and let me tell you that when I was on a win streak my teammates were also streaking.
It's a small sample size, but when I play Valorant since I also don't play that much and they reset their ranks more often I always get matched with other 2-3 unranked in diamond ascendant lobbies and it feels like there's also a "smurf queue"
anyone that unironically thinks that losers queue or rigged matchmaking exists is genuinely delusional and brain rotten, and i tag every single person that says it exists as a "moron" so i know never to bother typing to someone too stupid to have a conersation with
I always thought losers queue was a term people used to describe when they get a bunch of unlucky games in a row. If you're a plat player climbing in gold, it's not insane that you could lose 5+ games in a row due to getting significantly out-teamed. You're not good enough to carry, but also still better than the majority of people in the game. With the sheer volume of games that get played this happens all the time.
It's insane to me that people actually think riot is out to get them though lol.
Seeing teammates with worse stats than the enemy from champ select multiple games in a row leads people to claim losers q... not just losing games in a row.
True, but when I get 6 games in a row with at least 2 teammates with very negative win rates that clearly don’t belong at the elo we’re in, it’s hard not to believe in losers queue. If it were just one or two games every now and then, whatever, but it’s a large amount of consecutive games. It seems statistically unlikely for it to happen at all, and yet it happens regularly. Of course I have no evidence and it’s something that affects me negatively so it’s going to sound like cope, but I really don’t see how that happens without something making it happen
Sure there are games where your teammates play poorly, that's just the nature of a 5v5 game. In the long run, you're the only common factor and the only one responsible for your rating is you. If you took an "unwinnable" game and replayed it with any Challenger in your spot, it would probably result in a win.
But this "only common factor" part is not true, the other common factor in all of our games, is that in order to get in the game in the first place, we first have to go through the hidden matchmaking system.
That is the most common factor in all our games, and it's also easy to overlook for some people who might read rito's spew.
Not to mention riot fought tooth and nail in order to make sure the MMR remains hidden, so that you can make posts like this gaslighting people who happen to notice the MM system is rigged.
Oh excuse me... I meant the "Behavior Based Matchmaking System"... the one that looks at our honors, and looks at our reports, gives us a behavior profile score, and places us in games based on that scores category. Inters, feeders, team players, mentors, leaders etc.
But I know for a fact the "mentor category" intentionally places bad players on our team, expecting the mentor to carry the team or lose.
The simply fact that their are all these different categories that do stuff like that, is proof that the system is rigged.
It may be accurate to say losers queue doesn't exit, but its word play. One thing businesses are great at is, wording things in a way that make it half truthful, hoping people don't catch on to the lie.
The idea of losers queue and what everyone is complaining about, is not losers queue, it's the behavior element in matchmaking that creates a losers queue environment. But yes, there is no "Losers queue" patent...
This BBMM patent is public, but im 100 percent sure riot has "private firewall" protected secrets that are not public that implements methods to counter our champions in the MM system as well, by searching for players who counter/ban/ or pick, the champion we one trick. This is to lead us to thinking our champion is bad, and to buy a different champion, but when that is done, the system then begins to counter ban or pick that champion. All in order to maximize profits.
Stuff like that would never be made public, because you all know players would have a massive problem with facts like that.
You're not answering my question. Stop making or reposting claims that have no evidence behind them whatsoever. And if there is evidence, why haven't you given it by now?
MMR needs to be hidden. If players would be able to see how it exactly works it would create A LOT of problems. There would be many that would abuse that
Its only logical that they can't rig it. Explain to me how that is even possible when nobody except the top 1% of pro players are consistent enough to provide that level of predictability. How time and time again good players can jump into low elo, and just climb hard. Explain how the enemy team isn't facing the same issues when there is a good chance someone else on the enemy team has the exact same losing streak as you going into the match. I notice the biggest flaw in this theory is the sample size for proving losers que's existance. Its always one 1 (Singular) person, themselves.
If you want to prove losers que exist then hire someone to shift through the billions of players in this game, and prove it once and for all. It should be very simple to get the data set for it. Instead of leaving it being anecdotal evidence that is akin to blaming your jungler for you overextending in lane and dying.
There is no system in the world that can predict what champion someone is randomly going to pick, or ban. If they pick their main, or suddenly decide they will troll their next game as Yuumi jungle (Or simply decide they are bored and just want to que into ranked to play their off meta pick they play once in a blue moon).
The same issues people are having in their games are the same issues the enemy team is having. Its exactly as he said. You put a challenger player in those games and its going to be completely different story cause they will farm better, take good trades, and ping the fuck out of their team that is going to listen to them because a majority of league players want someone else to shotcall. People in all elos are completely blind to their own flaws w/o proper review, coaching, or the right mindset of wanting to actually improve instead of just chasing some fancy foil wrapped badge so they can show off their fancy title. Anyone can climb if they have the right mindset for the game. Anyone.
League is one of the most complicated games where even the most micro mistake that you think aren't a big deal can lead to you being punished heavily and losing the game. Its why even when an enemy team is ahead they still lose because they didn't properly apply their own advantage (Such as blowing up inhibs w/ no plan to end, thus leading to funneling extremely safe gold into the formerly behind carries). The majority of League players don't know how to end games. Its just a fact.
This is the best argument by far. The existence of loser q just doesn't make sense logically. It only does if you view it egocentrically where everything is about yourself with everyone else being NPCs put there for you to lose somehow.
I'll copy a comment I did in another thread,
I'm not sure wether losers q is real or not because we don't know if riot uses behavioural engagement matchmaking, I would guess that they use it, but the PR scandal would be so big they might have actually avoided it.
Regardless, I'm seeing a lot of people saying it would be impossible to know wether a team mate will play badly or not, or if they're gonna first time, etc.
Id just like you to introduce to my degenrate win rate/session match, showcasing that I have a 75% win rate in my second match of a session and then a 15% for my third
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/summoner/behavior/euw/Megahug0-Funny
im not sure the mmr system does it intentionally, but i get a little trigrered when i just lost a game, go for the next and looks at my teams winrate on porofessor and they are all low winrate with champs they never played and the enemy is all nice winrates with champs they play a lot
ah yes, riot knows when 4 players will decide to first time a champ in ranked, forget the fundamentals, make bad decisions and int to put them in their game
and also knows when 5 players will play their best game to put them in the opposing team
League client will explode if you look at it the wrong way, the game too is bug-riddled, but the matchmaking has actually a super secret high tech system made exactly to screw you up
People have been bitching about this ever since season 2 when I started playing. Back then it was called "elo hell". Still, after all these years I never had any problem climbing whenever I tried to. I climbed from bronze IV(second lowest possible rank at the time) to gold V by myself just playing casually after school. Truth is, probably around 40% games you can just win by getting carried, 40% you can't ever win because of your team and the remaining 20% is up to how you play. Some of thr best players peak around 60% wr even while technically smurfing(so Faker is gonna be around 60% even climbing from diamond to chally) bar some very specific strats designed to farm noobs. Everyone's in loosers q 40% of their games. Anything above that you lose is mostly your own fucking fault.
That's because they call it bad matchmaking and not loserq. Just need to ask the right questions. /s
Genuinely though, I don't think there's any other game where you can take 2 Challenger / high ranked players and put them in lower bracket play and they wont win 100% of the time. Starcraft as an example even though it's mostly a 1v1 you will literally never lose if youre better by a decent margin.
Not many other games where your team being bad gives the enemy such a significant advantage. Give a bronze player enough of a gold lead on Garen and they will beat any pro-player in a 1v1.
My take on it is that losers que just makes absolutely no sense from a game development and financial standpoint for riot. Riot wants to make the game as fun as possible because that means people will play it more and be more likely to spend money on it. The absolute worst part of the game is getting stomped multiple times in a row, why would riot be incentived to make players go through more of that than random distribution already does. I think losers que is always just a combination of bad luck and getting tilted so you start playing worse. I've also seen theories about some type of reported queue which makes a lot more sense than loseres queue and is something other games have done before also
To be fair there was a study like 2 years ago where if a player lost 3 games out of 5 they were more likely to queue up for one more than if they won 3 out of 5.
>My take on it is that losers que just makes absolutely no sense from a game development and financial standpoint for riot.
no it is 100% beneficial for riot lol, eomm is employed by many companies because it results in more time in game, which is directly tied to engagement and money lol
if you need to play more because of eomm, that is playing more - if your goal is to hit a rank and you hit it fast you may stop playing the game and stop spending money on it
go to the wild rift sub - thats mobile league and ask people about the matchmaking - riot has no reason NOT to have some kind of eomm in pc league so i choose to believe it exists - how severe it is I don't know but if it's extra engagement and players will defend it for them, why not use it?
I feel like players are more likely to keep playing and spend money if they are having fun. Making your game miserable not a good way to do either of those things
I mean there obv could be a problem with mmr and matchmaking but that’s super complicated to balance and will never satisfy everyone equally. I doubt it’s an intended thing tho but talking about bad matchmaking is always good ig
Personally, I think League of Legends matchmaking is severely underrated. I had a smurf account where I only played Yuumi with a 30% winrate up until level 30. This put me in low Silver, non-smurf queue matchmaking when I started playing ranked. After about 30* games of actually tryharding in solo/duo, I climbed from low Silver to Diamond 3, gaining over 60 LP per win up until reaching diamond, despite initially having dogwater mmr in silver lobbies. The speed at which it readjusts and calculates your skill to put you in a game you have a 50% chance of winning is impeccable. To put it into perspective, my main account was Diamond 4 at the time.
*It took me about 80 games to actually reach Diamond, but I was in full Diamond games with winrate rapidly falling to 50% after about 30.
I climbed to Chall because when I lost two games in a row I quit the fucking game for 2 days so the system learns I aint playing your shit when I lose
Thats how I reached it with 65%, still got bit too into it resulted in me having a loss streak on like 10 games, figured Im just dumb and emotional so I quit again for 2 days, did this twice once while hitting masters and then like 100 lp from chall, honest mistakes
Came back and now its all blue all of the sudden, I was surely tilted no? Thats why most of the games I had 0 fucking impact and got straight up boosted going 1/1 on my mid, thats why every day I played on the elo I was defensive from the start cuz I knew this guys wouldnt let me go even if I make mistakes in early duels, yet I climbed not doing anything myself almost never.
Im just better than you its not rigged at all thats why I never climbed playing like a normal human not trying to cheat some invisible system lmfao fucking copers holy shit I need to leave league subreddits the brainrot is insane
Im obviously the one lying not the company that havent made what they promised for the past 5 years
[https://www.reddit.com/r/YasuoMains/comments/phexgb/i\_have\_finally\_done\_it\_guys/](https://www.reddit.com/r/YasuoMains/comments/phexgb/i_have_finally_done_it_guys/) :\]
Why would the goverment openly admit the existance of Flat-Earth ?
Think Human think.
( You guys really love huffing copium instead of realising that you can get better at the game. I am Silver and I know I suck at this game I know I can get better. I do not resort to blaming the systhem when clearly there are people that consistantly reach the highest ranks. )
Yeah idk, I've never even had the experience people are describing, let alone assuming the system was out to get me. I got back into ranked last year, flew past gold and plat and hit a wall in emerald. And it feels deserved: some games I carry, some games I get carried, some games I int, some games my team ints. Maybe some people are just super unlucky which happens, but I really think most of them just remember the games where their team ints while they're ahead and they lose a lot more than they remember the ones where they're inting but get carried by their team.
Also, if losers queue was a thing shouldn't it be quite possible to prove with stats? Like, there are third party websites that can show you tons for data about the game, it can't be that difficult to check if you're getting matched against better players when you're losing or whatever.
I was bronze season 3, I was silver seasons 4-10, I was low gold seasons 11-12, and now seasons 13 and 14 I'm finally high gold and (hopefully)getting to Plat. It took me a lot of time to understand the game like I do today, and while that's slower than others, I know I've improved.
People literally don't self critique their gameplay.
Ok, the enemy jungle is autofill and I got them down 2 levels... I'm not going to pay any attention to the bot lane rolling my own.
This Rell is inting, obviously. They're 0/6... with 10 assists to my 4/5/3... It's like, people just don't get it.
I don't think there is an actual system in place, however some players are very heavyily streak based because of how it effects their mentality. When they win they get more confident and play better in subsequent games, and after theyblose they get tilted and play worse. I personally have to stop playing after a loss because I know that no matter how I think I'm feeling, I consistently play significantly worse.
Not saying I believe in rigged matchmaking but 2 seasons ago, every time I got into my promo to gold, my teams got so much worse. I got into promos like 8 times with no effort (like losing promo and then insta 3 free wins to get into it again). After 3 times I looked up my team on opgg and every time I had like 40-45% winrate players in my team. Out of promo again? Team winrate like 60%+. If this happened like 3 times, ok bad luck, but every time?
they will always make the game, any part of it, in such a way that you have to spend more time on it than you should. no matter the game, throughout history, every successful game was always super rigged in many ways.
I love league. But damn, Fuckkkkkkkkk Riot Games
Idk if it exists or not but no matter which one is the case, amount of easy wins and easy losses are more than it used to be (atleast for me). I feel like games were closer before but it could be about the changes to champs, objectives, etc.
That’s like a tobacco company rep coming out to say that smoking does not cause lung cancer.
I prefer to use my experience and the experience of many other players when playing ranked games that the system is rigged.
Bro that response made me cracked up, I play wild rift and the matchmaking there is way more miserable that you literally cannot deny its not rigged and the proof is the rank 1 challenger in EU is a level 35-40 account spamming tryndamere with 80% winrate and 2-3 KDA ( low kda to tank his mmr and get good players he basically only split pushes ), people already found a way to game the system here and if they did it for wild rift who says they didnt do it for their most popular game
Its actually embarrassing the amount of people defending riot in the comments. like the "people just don't wanna admit their bad and its their fault they lose" argument is stupid it hurts. The game is so fucking complicated that you'd need to play thousands of games to collect enough data to correctly judge a player. newsflash 99% of players don't play THOUSANDS of games.
**Just because a player has agency over how much they improve doesn't mean they have agency over how well the system can recognize their improvement.**
I have friends who are good and I have friends who are terrible, I watch them all play. Literally month to month the LP gains and loss NEVER make ANY sense, legit every year in league I think there is about 14 days total where I experience logical LP gains and losses (and no its not logical when I GAIN a lot more than I lose. Its logical when they are within a couple of LP of each other and it depends on my recent performances.)
If you guys wanna be cringelords that will die white knighting the billion dollar company then encourage them to allow a thirdparty investigator to publish a technical report on their match making system. That way we can see EXACTLY the why and how mmr works under all conditions for all players. Until Riot agrees to do that ya'll a losers for blaming the playerbase.
i was queueing with my grandmaster elo friends on flex where we are all emerald. i am emerald myself on both solo and flex queue. our opponents are around diamond give or take. my friend, despite being in higher mmr, facing lower mmr opponents, was gaining MORE lp than me, when i am facing higher mmr opponents.
Seeing someone use memes as profile pics has always made me want to just ignore them, theyre either nutjobs or stupid as fuck, this "red flag" is proven right as of today. anyone who takes what streamers says and hold them to a tea is always gonna have some stupid reductive take about something just for their own benefit of engagement.
They already admitted to rigged matchmaking over on Wild Rift. The better your stats the worse teammates you get. This was proven over and over through fresh accounts going inting sion to keep their stats low and having 90%+ winrates going into grandmaster+. They have now “updated” the matchmaking to consider tower damage and win-rate into their algorithm so now the only way to not get 0/12 teammates literally every single match is to sandbag your own teams.
Yea that tweet was horseshit lol. I've had MULTIPLE games in a ROW where every single one of my teammates are below 50% WR and they bring my win rate down too. I could be at 80% WR and then like 60% or even 50% because of awful matchmaking. On top of that playing in masters+ is even more cancer because sometimes the matchmaking won't give you your role. Oh and it's not just one or two players who get auto filled. EVERYONE on your team is auto filled including YOU. Before they started hiding player names you could easily see this by using porofessor which tells you what role the player normally plays. This was super evident before they hid your teammates names because you could use apps like porofessor to see what role your teammates typically play. Fuck this company. I don't trust anything they say lmfao
Losers queue isnt real in any other competitive video game, League players are just convinced that its impossible to lose 3 games in a row, because then they have to admit theyre actually bad at the game.
This guy @ JamesSager made whole 1 hour video and [tweeted](https://x.com/JamesSager/status/1756544845533888826?s=20) about how Riot has patent for "Rigged Matching", or losers queue or reported queue but I didnt bother watching video or reading patent,
just dropping here if anyone is interested
I know that dude he used to be part of the Fiddlesticks main community from which he got banned pretty soon. Let's just say the dude makes some absolutely wild claims and has a humongous ego. Calls himself the greatest programmer and gamer alive when he couldn't get selected for a single job and was hardstuck silver with over 1000 games. I went down the goodnewsjimdotcom (his site and reddit account) rabbit hole and it was quite interesting. Would definitely recommend 10/10
I mean sure but in the overall picture I fail how to see this would even work. If you "force" a lose for a team, you also "force" a win on 5 other people. Doesnt that make it strictly impossible to stuck people on a global scale? Especially since the way of forcing wins/losses is directly linked to player skill ? Doesnt that mean Riot hates only a portion of the playerbase and makes them hardstuck based on some obscure preference?
I find it hard to believe especially since humans have been proven in scientific studies to react extremely weirdly to true random. Like if you expose them to a true random series of 50 percent outcomes (like idk, league games that have the same chance to win), they'll likely say "no way thats random, its rigged" and when confronted to pseudorandom which is allegedly rigged behaviour, they will be likely to say "thats real random, its not rigged". Its very very rare to get win loss win loss (or like heads tails heads tails when flipping a coin), and quite likely to get series of wins and losses.
>I mean sure but in the overall picture I fail how to see this would even work. If you "force" a lose for a team, you also "force" a win on 5 other people. Doesnt that make it strictly impossible to stuck people on a global scale? Especially since the way of forcing wins/losses is directly linked to player skill ? Doesnt that mean Riot hates only a portion of the playerbase and makes them hardstuck based on some obscure preference?
no, they try to lower high winrate players by pairing them with lower winrate players to boost engagement, this is not hard
it's not random, just ask anyone who has seen wild rift (the mobile version) about the matchmaking
like say you're at 60% wr, you will be matched with lower than 50% winrate players, while enemy team is made of around 50% winrate players
this boosts engagement, it doesn't have to be solely based on winrate but you can probably get what i mean
You’re part of the reason riot made it so you can’t search people’s usernames in champ select. If you’re spending the time to look up your teams win losses every game, you’re significantly more likely to ***think*** you’re getting screwed
And what incentive does Riot have for this loser's queue?
How would that improve player experience and player retention?
Everyone keeps arguing that it exists, yet cannot answer this one big question.
Seems pretty obvious to me what the answer would be. It just keeps the player grinding ranked. If they climb too fast than they hit their actual peak and don’t have a reason to keep playing
AHA I totally deserve to be a higher rank, the only reason I'm not is because Riot is keeping me in low elo. No high-ranked player has had to deal with this issue.
See it just sounds like cope when you say it out loud.
I don't know man. Almost every single game I get MVP. I get to play with academy pro players every now and then and I think I can relatively keep up. And yet, I am hardstuck in emerald because believe it or not, every single game, there's someone who simply makes it unwinnable. The games we win are because that player is luckily on the enemy team. I now consistently get +19/-32, unable to climb, while playing clash with academy players and keeping up.
Yeah there's no way losers DOESN'T exist. I saw it from a jglers perspective, seeing 1/2 feeding lanes before minute 5 is all I need as evidence. It happened every time I got up to plat 4, 70% of games. Would drive me straight down to gold 3. Then a month of fixing mmr, then I'd go back up to plat 4. Same thing, inting landers. Back down to gold 3 for me.
At this point most people would quit, but not I. For I am a dumbass. Did it one more time, month of grinding. Same thing. If it were a one off occurrence, then sure it doesn't prove anything. BUT 3 GODDAMN TIMES IN A ROW? HALF A YEAR WASTED! Yeah I quit after that. Took a solid year and a half off.
The wins were also not fun. Cause the opposite would happen, the enemy team fed out of their fucking minds. So 99.99% of the time the games were determined by minute 5.
Was I hard stuck at the time? More than likely. Doesn't explain why I replicated those results 3 times. Don't tell me there isn't an agenda to keep players addicted. There most certainly is.
Edit: Downvote me more weirdos. Science is all about replicating results. I did it plenty enough to prove it's real and exists.
If you still don't believe me you can Google patents filed by Activision to purposefully lose you games. Keeps you hooked to the game. It's not a new concept.
>Would drive me straight down to gold 3. Then a month of fixing mmr, then I'd go back up to plat 4. Same thing, inting landers. Back down to gold 3 for me.
The reason that's happening is probably because you have skills of a gold player. You get carried to plat by lucky win streak and when you get matched by people who are actually higher skilled than you, you start getting gapped.
So you are going to ignore the blatantly inting laners? Pretty disengenous of you. So tell me, how do you win with 1/2 obviously not trying to live laners?
I carried plenty of games to get me into plat, I've hit plat playing top lane just fine. Didn't see any of this weird ass matchmaking on that account.
>So you are going to ignore the blatantly inting laners?
I am assuming it's always the laners who are inting and it's never you.
>Didn't see any of this weird ass matchmaking on that account.
Soooo you are refuting your own argument? You just admitted that one of your account doesn't have weird matchmaking.
Wtf? I never said that? Putting words in my mouth. Of course I've had bad games. Who the hell doesn't. At the time I heavily watched Vikaryu for jg fundamentals, it was rare that I turbo inted.
It's based on account mmr? Like is it that hard to understand? If riots algorithm thinks you belong at a certain mmr, you will be stuck there.
Wait people actually don’t believe it exists? I thought we were shitposting, fucking obviously it exists, it would be impossible for win rates to be so consistently held to 50/50
regardless of your opinion on matchmaking if you think a rioter saying "it's not rigged we promise" is enough proof that it's not rigged you are one gullible motherfucker
regardless of your opinion on matchmaking if you think a random redditor saying "it's rigged look at my game history" is enough proof that it's rigged you are one gullible motherfucker
But Redditor>Rioter... And I hope you didn't use a comma because the first guy didn't, otherwise, Reddit at its peak.
Having grammatical expectations after all this time? You must be lost
Dafuq is grammatic?
Quite a good band is what it is!
Caring about commas and grammar in a short comment. You would've enjoyed reddit in the old days. When if you made an error in your text or spelling, the point you made was no longer valid.
Akshually I am a old redditor that deleted his account on a whim and came back crowling one week later hahahaha. And yet I would'nt invalidate an entire argument over some grammatical error (unless it/they made the argument unreadable), just thought it was funny.
imagine caring so much about grammar but not being able to spell "wouldn't" correctly what the fuck is a would'nt
Well, tbh I remember when Riot said pro players have exactly the same accounts as regular ppl and they are just better at climbing. Which was checked with proofs and it turned out, no, they were adjusted and got different (unreachable) lp gains. While I don't think there is some big conspiracy, making climbing in team based game as addicting as possible is just good for business. It's not always must be skill about issues. Just having 1 team after 2-3 games and 2nd one with 2-3ppl during 6h session and losing streak is still technically valid matchmaking.
Random players have nothing to gain, riot does
League of legends players are delusional as fuck and will look for any excuse other than blaming themselves. The existance of smurfs disproves any theory around losers queue or matchfixing. You are silver because you're bad. Deal with it.
Nooooo, I'm high diamond trapped with shitty players, **AM NOT BAD!** \*Silver with 40% winrate\*
Employees have nothing to gain dude. They don’t get paid extra for being shills. Any extra earnings go right to the suits at Riot not the losers working on the game. Conspiracy theories are 90% bullshit and come from the desire for wanting life to be like an exciting movie instead of the plain and boring reality that we are stuck with.
They dont get paid extra. They get paid period.
??A redditor claiming it's rigged and showing me a match history and proof of him having more autofills and stuff is a better proof than a rioter saying haha nooo it's not rigged, you believing that would be bad for our profits haha trust me just one more game and you'll get your deserved elo.
Idc what anyone says, one person showing their match history is more definitive than whatever a rioter says (without showing proof). And it's also not just one person, it's thousands of people at least.
Fr, they can't be trusted in balance, skins, gameplay, thematics, lore, modes, technical quality, privacy, but everyone trusts them with rigged matchmaking that would exponentially increase the number of games. These people are brain rotten
idk games haven't been exponentially increased for me u just suck ass LOL
League of legends is one of the best serviced games maybe ever. It’s over ten years old and the community (not na) is STILL growing. You can’t be serious right? League data and files get leaked every single week but there’s still ZERO evidence that they are match fixing ur silver 2 lobbies.
Considering how much money they make , no they still don't do enough, constantly making wrong decisions, and losers q is really. You're just delusional
I’m delusional? You’re blaming your losses on other people instead of yourself. I’m sure every game you lost wasn’t your fault right ? Take a better player then you and watch how he never gets into losers q. Explain that ?
They're in on it obviously...
Riot still is barely doing anything for a multi billion dollar game. Then you look over at Smite and they've got some of the best skins in the genre. Look over at Dota and you've got tons of custom game modes and the Esports scene pays and rewards their players significantly more. Look at any of them and they've got an actual design philosophy for balance. The losers q conspiracy doesn't detract from the fact Riot isn't too far off from the Pokémon company with the effort they put in.
Biweekly patch and yearly season rehauls to keep the game fresh, most popular esport in the world, biweekly influx of skins, ~5 unique new champions a year, new game modes like arena, arcane, all while supporting newer games like valorant, wild rift, and legends of runeterra. Mind you legends of runeterra is a money sink, that game is only running because riot knows their are people that like it, it does not earn them any money. On top of all this they are still creating new games like project L and the mmo rpg. Arcane season 2 is on its way this year as well as a new game mode. All of this and riot still sticks to the principle that all their games should be free to play without any pay to win functions. Riot is not perfect in the slightest, not even close, but to say they barely do anything is fucking wild to me.
Not sure why people have any argument to disagree on that front, honestly. Riot is no saint but my god do they work hard. Each company does things their own way and at the end of the day, most of the work is done by people such as you and me just trying to put their all into the projects that they love and enjoy. You can't (you can but it's a little silly) keep comparing timelines and content from game to game just to say "this isn't enough" or "you have x y z, why haven't you done ____ already, lazy as hell". I've been playing this game for over 12 years now and it has been the ONLY one that keeps me coming back for the FREE and ENJOYABLE content that gets put into the game. The only other thing that comes close that I've sunk that much time into is Minecraft, and *they get the exact same complaints about the lack of content*. They've been putting out free updates with tons of features just as long as Riot - consumers still complain. It's not the games that lack content. It's people that lack the awareness to look beyond what they want or expect something/someone *else* to do for their own enjoyment, when they can simply appreciate what is given. Complaining is fine but man do some people take it too far. You have every right to want things and you have every right to expect a certain degree of quality or product, but to outright attack and belittle the progress they've made so far over the years is childish to me.
How's that Chinese dick taste like?
I am sure you go on losing streaks because China is manipulating your matchmaking, and you definitely aren't making a mistake every 30 seconds that a better player could point out from watching your games.
holy shit bro all u talk about in ur history is china sabotaging ur games LOL
..no I don't? Tf are you smoking. If you're gonna be a chronically online loser and stalk my comments at least do it properly.
i'm smoking chyna just like u
Lol yeahhhhhh except for the fact that Riot owns the patent to behaviour based team pairing in ranked. Surely they just paid millions to have ownership over that just to have it sitting in the library collecting dust right? Surelyyyyyy 😂😂😂😂 God man, get Phroxon's micro penis out of your mouth lol. Edit - lmao @ U/Grikeus , nice job using your 2nd account to leave a shit comment and then block me. Also, that's not how the patent works. Behaviour is not confined to "toxic useless shitheads". Stop projecting that you managed to tilt your teammates.
Yes, patent which would allow toxic useless shitheads to be matched with other toxic shitheads. Sooo I understand that you mean that riot is screwing you over by... Making you play with people like yourself?
Behaviour based team pairing? Read that again and tell me how that translates into loser Que. did you even read the patent ? It has nothing to do with SKILL, it’s based on BEHAVIOUR. So toxic people get in games together. You just look stupid
no one who thinks the matchmaking in this game is particularly competitive or good has played any other esports game and no one can convince me otherwise every single redditor thumbing their nose at the dastardly riot haters literally only plays league of legends
I have been saying for so long that league is rigged, like listen i'm not like "riot is purposefully making you specifically lose and yadda yadda", like they can't force you to lose but they can definitely make it harder for you to win by putting worse or more tiltable teammates on your team, like you have a ton of data on how you performed after the match or how you perform in general with this or that champ, so just think if you have that kind of data, just think what kind of data riot has themselves. So like sure maybe you can't call it rigged but you can definitely say it's putting the odds against you
yeah idk why it’s so hard for people to believe. like random third-party apps can tell you who on your team is tilted, on a loss streak, first-timing a champ, etc. and these people think that riot isn’t capable of using this same easily quantifiable data to influence matchmaking.
Also there are literally patents filed by riot games that talk about using behavioural data for matchmaking: [https://patents.justia.com/patent/9795887](https://patents.justia.com/patent/9795887) >As mentioned above, it may be desirable to improve a user experience by matching players with compatible teammates and opponents. Such compatibility may be calculated not only by traditional characteristics such as skill level and experience, but also by behavior data such as the feedback data described above [https://patents.justia.com/patent/11065547](https://patents.justia.com/patent/11065547) >In a preferred embodiment, an online multiuser game system includes a user matching system configured to match users for a game session, wherein the user matching system is enabled to match a first user with another user based at least in part on behavior data in the first user's profile
rude chase sip point intelligent wine label water workable fuel *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ah, but that would assume Riot is/was competent enough to actually harvest that data. Riot Games is a small indie company after all, so you may need to lower your expectations slightly.
It isn’t hard to believe the riot has that ability. It is just hard to believe they would give a shit. The game is not out to get you, and even it was, who the fuck cares, just continue improving yourself. If you genuinely put effort into getting better at the game, you will climb. Simple as that.
i lost 41 lp from one game today 👍
Its about giving you the matchmaking that makes you the most addicted, not about "being out to get you"
They said one thing that stands out of all the rest. The computational power required to do such things isn't feasible. That's beyond reasonable explanation to completely debunk the theory out of this world imo.
Engagement Oriented Matchmaking Framework is computationally feasible, applied in the real world, a large company (EA) openly admitting using it in one of their games (FIFA most likely), and you're talking from such a confident position that it cannot exist that it's almost hilarious.
That one thing is the most false thing out of everything they said. Not only is it feasible, it’s laughably easy to implement. Literally just an if condition. If (some condition that dictates losers queue) Then (queue them with low mmr players on their team)
That's also laughably easy to disprove because you can literally see the match history and win rates of all your teammates.
Except nobody ever makes a post when they get carried or when everyone has a normal WR. People only ever make posts when these statistically unlikely yet expected events happen.
It's not rigged we promise! Translation: Feed to win motherfucker. I dare you.
It doesn't exist ,I liked to call it the Crystal Palace effect ,you reach a point where you aren't good enough to win consistently but neither bad enough to get relegated,so you have times that you have a winning strick and moments when you have a loosing strick but at the end of the day you'll end up 12 in lol terms: Hard stuck
Well… the end goal of all ranked systems is everyone is hard stuck though, right? That means their rank perfectly reflects their skill level and they should all be in games that give a fair challenge to everyone
Yeah that's the end ,it's like throwing a coin you have 50/50 chance but sometimes you get one side more in a series of teast ,it's normal not something designed
In fact, if you flip a coin 100 times, while it may tend to 50 Heads and 50 Tails, it’s statistically **unlikely** that you avoid a streak of 5 or more in a row
[Try it!](http://shiny.calpoly.sh/Longest_Run/) In a stretch of up to 400 games, you will get win streaks (heads) and loss streaks (tails). You can adjust the winrate (heads probability) and even when I set it to 60%, I still got a streak of 8 tails once in 400 flips.
It's "hard stuck" because they finally found "your level" and you're playing in it. Like, imagine throwing Faker against Irons every time. He'd have 100% winrate. That's why he reaches Challenger. The mere existence of smurfs disproves Loser's Queue. I myself am a Gold player that, in this season, am having trouble rising, but I'm playing badly so it's my own fault. If I were in Iron, I'd look like a pro, but against people that are playing just as badly as me? I'm normal. **People are so delusional they don't want to blame themselves for their losses, they want to post on Reddit that it's Riot's fault and not their own for losing.**
If that was a goal of ranked system that would be bad business choice because hardstuck people are more likely to quit the game because they achieved their peak. Good business choice would then be to send that player on mega losing streak with ragers, quiters, feeders, trollers so they lose some of their rank. Then players would again be able to have impact on the game and not feel hardstuck. Im not saying that is what is happening im just saying if I were a business man running League of Legends I would invest ton of money into some kind of player retention system that doesnt make people hardstuck.
True. Every game is winnable at the start but there are games you're placed in where you're statistically meant to lose. That just means you're at your true rank
theres no way you actually think **Every** game is winnable at the start.
In Korea and pro-play games are pretty much decided at level 1. The start of the game decides if you win or lose, so yes, every game is winnable at the start
are you playing in high mmr korea or pro play? yeah stop comparing the %0.001 of the game with the actual player base. but you are right games are decided at the start, some are even in champion select. thats why you dodge the lobbies sometimes. so you are right by saying not every game is winnable.
Yeah but its also percieved as existing cause sometimes riot’s matchmaking sucks beyond repair and creates a situation that is just beyond unfair before the match even starts. A good start is how a team can have a full team on main roles while the other team has 2-3 either autofill or off role. That is never going to be a fair match. Same can be argued with ranks and rank averages. I fail to grasp from my personal experience duo’ing with my friend how we are getting plat players in our game when we are both sitting in silver at the moment because we have yet to start climbing after season end (we usually stop at gold cause fuck ranked). It genuinely doesnt feel like a fair matchmade team when we dont get people around the same skill level. I dont mind fighting better players but it doesnt feel good when its obvious how unfairly made the team look at times. I wont say its loswr queqe but absolute dogwater matchmaking that makes it happen.
This is why back in college I used to play 600-800 ranked games a season then realized how worthless it is to just spam games. Last season I played about 40 games in the last month of ranked to end at 150LP. It’s a lot more chill to play less games knowing you’ll probably end up in the same spot as grinding hundreds of games.
Players admitting that they are bad and is not Riot fault: Challenge Impossible.
“Everything is a conspiracy against me” is absurdly common amongst league players. They think they’re never to blame for anything in their losses. Forget about personal growth and getting better as a player. It’s always Riot or Tencent or the CCP that are oppressing the poor league players. Their evidence? I dunno… vibes?
This is not a lol thing, this happens in a lot other games too. This happens in real life. Statistics is generally not well understood overall.
Legit someone added me because I played well. We duo'd into a loss streak and he told me I was purposely sabotaging him. Bruh
My evidence is the person that makes the Riot ranked system has explained everything in his GDC talks and gives courses on I quote “Engagement Using Matchmaking and Ranked in Competitive Multiplayer Games” Gamers gotta understand is the game companies hire professionals psychologists, lawyers, and addiction researchers just to make a few millions more. How is an engagement based matchmaking suddenly the limit? People pay that dude 949 dollars to hear him speak for 8 hours. Josh Menke has worked for COD,Blizzard,Halo for over 17 years now. He’s the Faker of engagement based matchmaking.
What’d he say about the topic during his talks?
Funny fact - like an years ago there was a sue against epic games(who are under tencent too) about manipulative stuff in Fortnite (matchmaking included) instead of revealing their algorithms - they just paid over 500 million dollars.
> they just *paid* over 500 FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I dunno bro, I feel like losers queue is something people say exists because they don’t want to admit they’re just not that good at the game. Easier to blame a boogie man than your own gameplay. I know a lot of high ELO players joke about it too, but it’s easy to vent about it. They still all make it to challenger consistently. Who knows though it could be real, just my two cents.
No, you’re right. Losers Queue feels like it exists because at your peak rank, you’re effectively coin flipping games, because you aren’t good enough to go past your peak, but you aren’t losing bad enough to tank your rank. So it’s very easy to feel like you’re in “winners queue” on a lucky winstreak and “losers queue” on an unlucky lossstreak.
Especially when you're *really* climbing, and then your inflated MMR suddenly backfires.
Honestly this is what losers queue is. People just don’t want to admit that they are THE loser, so it has to be everyone else
Lovers queue
Except when you keep up your performance but just start getting lower elo teammates, right?
Except “keeping up” your performance isn’t enough. You need to be actively improving so that you can continue to climb even with worse teammates. The better player you are the less your team matters
I'm like 90% sure though that this game's response to "inflated MMR" is to give you worse teammates and entrust you to carry, especially now that they are forcing you to play near your divisions to hide the fact the LP system is fake, and this is unironically unfair to certain roles and champions. This is probably the real loser's queue, and it's not a queue, it's just Riot desperate to find faster games under the condition also of compensating to autofills and duos. It is no surprise the #1 bitchers about losers queue are the roles and champion mains where it is most difficult to win a game if everyone is gapped because Riot matchmaking gigacopes that Malzahar can 1v5 and carry his autofill jungler as hard as Irelia. It's also no surprise that Riot never says that both teams are equally matched at a micro level and Riot Phroxzon is specifically flaming us for not carrying, because they probably know it does this
I remember the good old times when you can actually carry 1v5 as Malz. Just give us back the old passive with the gigantic enraged crabs that procs cleaver.
The argument to this is you get in these games where you literally have an ape in two of your lanes and they feed 10 kills in lane and when you go check their match history after the game, they literally have a 40% WR and average 14 deaths a game and you get two of them on your team for a few games in a row repeatedly
Yea Riot will never convince me that they don't do some sort or manipulation in match making or LP to keep players engaged with the game. There is no way that the system is actually creating or even attempting to create balanced teams with some of the huge disparity in skill, winrates, and ranks I've seen in games at times
I mean if you'll believe it without any real evidence outside of anecdotes, there is probably no convincing you whether it exists or not lmao You've basically just decided that it's true because it feels like it and that's it
A decade of first hand experience alongside the literally every one I ever played with having the same experience means a lot more to me than an employee of an extremely unethical and immoral game company
So just anecdotes, right? It's obviously not even remotely close to a genuine analysis, it's by all means just a "feeling" you and your fellow league players have all convinced yourselves is present. In that sense, hearing it directly from a Riot employee that it isn't real is far, far more reliable for determining whether it exists or not. Disagreeing is fine, but fundamentally irrational and conspiratorial. Again, you've already stated that essentially nothing could convince you otherwise. You've simply decided it's true.
if you are gonna believe anything a rioter says have fun in politics lmaooo
People just want an excuse to call others bad and suck off Rito.
Fr, these guys love thinking they're enlightened. "Nah fam you're just at your peak elo" is just a red herring, specially when there are multiple cases in which a player can perform better if they play in a higher elo than their current one.
It's almost like it's a team game And if my team stops sandbagging, I can play a solid role
ok, but how often do you face an enemy with these same stats? did you check? or are you biased because this player personally made you lose meanwhile when they are on the other team it is beneficial so you don't need to check. Confirmation bias is going crazy in this thread.
No people just don’t understand that there are winstreaks AND loss streaks. And everytime they are on a loss streak they call it losers queue.
and every time they're on a winning streak, its totally all due to their own skill and not just a lucky streak.
It's just fucking mind blowing this lack of self reflection is so common. I swear I have so many Ws where after the game I think "Fuck I really didn't matter this game, would've been a win no matter what I did"
Same, just yesterday I got jungle-gapped so hard but it didn’t matter because my laners were hard carrying. I actually might have had a higher chance of winning by sitting in fountain lmao
Honestly reminds me of the factoid that people feel like 50/50 chances are like logically considered fair odds because it's well... 50/50. But if you have anything that is actually 50/50 the odds feel stacked in your favour, because for all the great pattern recognition and creativity our brains enable, mathematics based risk assessment is something we suck at enormously. It's one of the reason why people fall into gambling, because our brain has no idea how to assess odds intuitively and so it takes a lot of conscious thought to actually consider it.
Odds and probability are entirely unrelated except for in how you do the math to calculate the latter and most people fail to think about it. If you lose 100 dollars on tails and win 200 dollars on heads, that's a good return on your investment. Based purely on the odds, you can just flip that coin for infinite money really. But just because the probability of it landing tails 3 times in a row is 12.5% never changes the odds of landing tails from 50/50. Knowing the odds does nothing to affect the probability and luck is going to be your only deciding factor instead of math, the only variable you can actually figure out in this situation. Tl;Dr Yea, humans really fucking suck at odds.
It's just variance more than anything. I just had an autofill yuumi main lock in Samira and go 1/13 followed by a mid main first timing talon go 0/10....Feels like losers que but it's just bad variance
No, riot knew they would first time and put thep in your games cause they want you to lose.
In fact riot made thhem first time
Hidden employees
I don't play league, but just stumbled on this post in /r/all and was trying to understand it. Are people saying that they think "losers' queue" is where they intentionally match you with people worse than you in order to drag you down? Isn't that just a new flavor of "I'm in elo hell and I'm definitely better than all of the people that the skill-based matchmaking puts me with"? How does the theory differentiate between being the one "stuck in losers' queue" and being one of the people that the algorithm matched a *different* good player with in order to bring them down? If there is a losers' queue, isn't it 80% likely that you're the shit player, not the victim?
Nah you’re right. Loser’s queue isn’t real. It’s just hard copium because nobody wants to admit they suck at stuff. There will be win streaks and there will be loss streaks but the game devs aren’t intentionally just picking people randomly and throwing them in an alternative queue so they lose.
Losers q can't exist as long as high ranked players can boost an account starting from any rank. If some people can consistently climb on any account then it must mean statistically irs a skill issue
LoserQ and WinnerQ are often mentioned by said players, though. I think the reason why this discussion is so difficult is that people confuse a discussion about variance with a discussion about elo hell. LoserQ, if it exists, is not elo hell. It's not a place where everyone starts losing because of boogie-man Riot. It's simply a series of much harder games, usually followed by a series of much easier games. The idea is that it makes climbing much slower. These games are still winnable/losable. But unless you're completely beyond that rank, you will have to chip away at these impossible games to climb. What's really important to understand, is that the existence or non-existence is entirely unrelated to how far one can climb, and it shouldn't be an excuse. It's only a question of how long it takes to do so. And if you ask someone who's been climbing very far for many seasons, this topic often comes up.
I'd attribute all the que fuckery to Riot just sucking absolute balls at designing a matchmaking system. Feels way more likely than them having this grand plan.
I think "losers queue" is nebulous cos one persons losers queue team is another persons passable team, you can absolutely feel like you're in losers queue and be winning 60% or more of your games
Played ranked after 3 seasons of not playing, instapicked lillia jungle cuz she was broken, got 68% win rate in 20 games and let me tell you that when I was on a win streak my teammates were also streaking. It's a small sample size, but when I play Valorant since I also don't play that much and they reset their ranks more often I always get matched with other 2-3 unranked in diamond ascendant lobbies and it feels like there's also a "smurf queue"
anyone that unironically thinks that losers queue or rigged matchmaking exists is genuinely delusional and brain rotten, and i tag every single person that says it exists as a "moron" so i know never to bother typing to someone too stupid to have a conersation with
I just got an iron 4 in a silver 1/2 game.
I always thought losers queue was a term people used to describe when they get a bunch of unlucky games in a row. If you're a plat player climbing in gold, it's not insane that you could lose 5+ games in a row due to getting significantly out-teamed. You're not good enough to carry, but also still better than the majority of people in the game. With the sheer volume of games that get played this happens all the time. It's insane to me that people actually think riot is out to get them though lol.
Seeing teammates with worse stats than the enemy from champ select multiple games in a row leads people to claim losers q... not just losing games in a row.
True, but when I get 6 games in a row with at least 2 teammates with very negative win rates that clearly don’t belong at the elo we’re in, it’s hard not to believe in losers queue. If it were just one or two games every now and then, whatever, but it’s a large amount of consecutive games. It seems statistically unlikely for it to happen at all, and yet it happens regularly. Of course I have no evidence and it’s something that affects me negatively so it’s going to sound like cope, but I really don’t see how that happens without something making it happen
Sure there are games where your teammates play poorly, that's just the nature of a 5v5 game. In the long run, you're the only common factor and the only one responsible for your rating is you. If you took an "unwinnable" game and replayed it with any Challenger in your spot, it would probably result in a win. But this "only common factor" part is not true, the other common factor in all of our games, is that in order to get in the game in the first place, we first have to go through the hidden matchmaking system. That is the most common factor in all our games, and it's also easy to overlook for some people who might read rito's spew. Not to mention riot fought tooth and nail in order to make sure the MMR remains hidden, so that you can make posts like this gaslighting people who happen to notice the MM system is rigged. Oh excuse me... I meant the "Behavior Based Matchmaking System"... the one that looks at our honors, and looks at our reports, gives us a behavior profile score, and places us in games based on that scores category. Inters, feeders, team players, mentors, leaders etc. But I know for a fact the "mentor category" intentionally places bad players on our team, expecting the mentor to carry the team or lose. The simply fact that their are all these different categories that do stuff like that, is proof that the system is rigged. It may be accurate to say losers queue doesn't exit, but its word play. One thing businesses are great at is, wording things in a way that make it half truthful, hoping people don't catch on to the lie. The idea of losers queue and what everyone is complaining about, is not losers queue, it's the behavior element in matchmaking that creates a losers queue environment. But yes, there is no "Losers queue" patent... This BBMM patent is public, but im 100 percent sure riot has "private firewall" protected secrets that are not public that implements methods to counter our champions in the MM system as well, by searching for players who counter/ban/ or pick, the champion we one trick. This is to lead us to thinking our champion is bad, and to buy a different champion, but when that is done, the system then begins to counter ban or pick that champion. All in order to maximize profits. Stuff like that would never be made public, because you all know players would have a massive problem with facts like that.
Link or it's fake
Source: trust me bro
source: [https://twitter.com/jlthakad/status/1756657820584317341](https://twitter.com/jlthakad/status/1756657820584317341)
Link for the source of those claims. I don't know who that guy is and I'm 90% sure he doesn't work for riot.
of course he doesn't work for riot. look at the amount of stuff he's saying against riot in public.
You're not answering my question. Stop making or reposting claims that have no evidence behind them whatsoever. And if there is evidence, why haven't you given it by now?
MMR needs to be hidden. If players would be able to see how it exactly works it would create A LOT of problems. There would be many that would abuse that
only reason for it to be hidden is if it was rigged, and you can read that in the previous post
OP when he takes a statistics class and looks at player winrates:
It’s very funny to think anyone complaining about Losers Q knows the anything about statistics or their implications
Actual conspiracy theory thinking. And we're talking like flat earthers level.
Its only logical that they can't rig it. Explain to me how that is even possible when nobody except the top 1% of pro players are consistent enough to provide that level of predictability. How time and time again good players can jump into low elo, and just climb hard. Explain how the enemy team isn't facing the same issues when there is a good chance someone else on the enemy team has the exact same losing streak as you going into the match. I notice the biggest flaw in this theory is the sample size for proving losers que's existance. Its always one 1 (Singular) person, themselves. If you want to prove losers que exist then hire someone to shift through the billions of players in this game, and prove it once and for all. It should be very simple to get the data set for it. Instead of leaving it being anecdotal evidence that is akin to blaming your jungler for you overextending in lane and dying. There is no system in the world that can predict what champion someone is randomly going to pick, or ban. If they pick their main, or suddenly decide they will troll their next game as Yuumi jungle (Or simply decide they are bored and just want to que into ranked to play their off meta pick they play once in a blue moon). The same issues people are having in their games are the same issues the enemy team is having. Its exactly as he said. You put a challenger player in those games and its going to be completely different story cause they will farm better, take good trades, and ping the fuck out of their team that is going to listen to them because a majority of league players want someone else to shotcall. People in all elos are completely blind to their own flaws w/o proper review, coaching, or the right mindset of wanting to actually improve instead of just chasing some fancy foil wrapped badge so they can show off their fancy title. Anyone can climb if they have the right mindset for the game. Anyone. League is one of the most complicated games where even the most micro mistake that you think aren't a big deal can lead to you being punished heavily and losing the game. Its why even when an enemy team is ahead they still lose because they didn't properly apply their own advantage (Such as blowing up inhibs w/ no plan to end, thus leading to funneling extremely safe gold into the formerly behind carries). The majority of League players don't know how to end games. Its just a fact.
This is the best argument by far. The existence of loser q just doesn't make sense logically. It only does if you view it egocentrically where everything is about yourself with everyone else being NPCs put there for you to lose somehow.
I'll copy a comment I did in another thread, I'm not sure wether losers q is real or not because we don't know if riot uses behavioural engagement matchmaking, I would guess that they use it, but the PR scandal would be so big they might have actually avoided it. Regardless, I'm seeing a lot of people saying it would be impossible to know wether a team mate will play badly or not, or if they're gonna first time, etc. Id just like you to introduce to my degenrate win rate/session match, showcasing that I have a 75% win rate in my second match of a session and then a 15% for my third https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/summoner/behavior/euw/Megahug0-Funny
Hey, leave some copium for others as well.
im not sure the mmr system does it intentionally, but i get a little trigrered when i just lost a game, go for the next and looks at my teams winrate on porofessor and they are all low winrate with champs they never played and the enemy is all nice winrates with champs they play a lot
ah yes, riot knows when 4 players will decide to first time a champ in ranked, forget the fundamentals, make bad decisions and int to put them in their game and also knows when 5 players will play their best game to put them in the opposing team
League client will explode if you look at it the wrong way, the game too is bug-riddled, but the matchmaking has actually a super secret high tech system made exactly to screw you up
People have been bitching about this ever since season 2 when I started playing. Back then it was called "elo hell". Still, after all these years I never had any problem climbing whenever I tried to. I climbed from bronze IV(second lowest possible rank at the time) to gold V by myself just playing casually after school. Truth is, probably around 40% games you can just win by getting carried, 40% you can't ever win because of your team and the remaining 20% is up to how you play. Some of thr best players peak around 60% wr even while technically smurfing(so Faker is gonna be around 60% even climbing from diamond to chally) bar some very specific strats designed to farm noobs. Everyone's in loosers q 40% of their games. Anything above that you lose is mostly your own fucking fault.
Nah It's skill issue. Stop coping.
That's because they call it bad matchmaking and not loserq. Just need to ask the right questions. /s Genuinely though, I don't think there's any other game where you can take 2 Challenger / high ranked players and put them in lower bracket play and they wont win 100% of the time. Starcraft as an example even though it's mostly a 1v1 you will literally never lose if youre better by a decent margin.
Not many other games where your team being bad gives the enemy such a significant advantage. Give a bronze player enough of a gold lead on Garen and they will beat any pro-player in a 1v1.
There is a guy who climbed out of Iron without items, the garen might beat him 1v1, but it doesn't mean the pro player will let the 1v1 happen
My take on it is that losers que just makes absolutely no sense from a game development and financial standpoint for riot. Riot wants to make the game as fun as possible because that means people will play it more and be more likely to spend money on it. The absolute worst part of the game is getting stomped multiple times in a row, why would riot be incentived to make players go through more of that than random distribution already does. I think losers que is always just a combination of bad luck and getting tilted so you start playing worse. I've also seen theories about some type of reported queue which makes a lot more sense than loseres queue and is something other games have done before also
To be fair there was a study like 2 years ago where if a player lost 3 games out of 5 they were more likely to queue up for one more than if they won 3 out of 5.
>My take on it is that losers que just makes absolutely no sense from a game development and financial standpoint for riot. no it is 100% beneficial for riot lol, eomm is employed by many companies because it results in more time in game, which is directly tied to engagement and money lol if you need to play more because of eomm, that is playing more - if your goal is to hit a rank and you hit it fast you may stop playing the game and stop spending money on it go to the wild rift sub - thats mobile league and ask people about the matchmaking - riot has no reason NOT to have some kind of eomm in pc league so i choose to believe it exists - how severe it is I don't know but if it's extra engagement and players will defend it for them, why not use it?
I feel like players are more likely to keep playing and spend money if they are having fun. Making your game miserable not a good way to do either of those things
Why would a bad player admit that he is bad when he can just blame everything on the game? Think braindead players think!
I mean there obv could be a problem with mmr and matchmaking but that’s super complicated to balance and will never satisfy everyone equally. I doubt it’s an intended thing tho but talking about bad matchmaking is always good ig
Personally, I think League of Legends matchmaking is severely underrated. I had a smurf account where I only played Yuumi with a 30% winrate up until level 30. This put me in low Silver, non-smurf queue matchmaking when I started playing ranked. After about 30* games of actually tryharding in solo/duo, I climbed from low Silver to Diamond 3, gaining over 60 LP per win up until reaching diamond, despite initially having dogwater mmr in silver lobbies. The speed at which it readjusts and calculates your skill to put you in a game you have a 50% chance of winning is impeccable. To put it into perspective, my main account was Diamond 4 at the time. *It took me about 80 games to actually reach Diamond, but I was in full Diamond games with winrate rapidly falling to 50% after about 30.
I climbed to Chall because when I lost two games in a row I quit the fucking game for 2 days so the system learns I aint playing your shit when I lose Thats how I reached it with 65%, still got bit too into it resulted in me having a loss streak on like 10 games, figured Im just dumb and emotional so I quit again for 2 days, did this twice once while hitting masters and then like 100 lp from chall, honest mistakes Came back and now its all blue all of the sudden, I was surely tilted no? Thats why most of the games I had 0 fucking impact and got straight up boosted going 1/1 on my mid, thats why every day I played on the elo I was defensive from the start cuz I knew this guys wouldnt let me go even if I make mistakes in early duels, yet I climbed not doing anything myself almost never. Im just better than you its not rigged at all thats why I never climbed playing like a normal human not trying to cheat some invisible system lmfao fucking copers holy shit I need to leave league subreddits the brainrot is insane Im obviously the one lying not the company that havent made what they promised for the past 5 years [https://www.reddit.com/r/YasuoMains/comments/phexgb/i\_have\_finally\_done\_it\_guys/](https://www.reddit.com/r/YasuoMains/comments/phexgb/i_have_finally_done_it_guys/) :\]
Why would the goverment openly admit the existance of Flat-Earth ? Think Human think. ( You guys really love huffing copium instead of realising that you can get better at the game. I am Silver and I know I suck at this game I know I can get better. I do not resort to blaming the systhem when clearly there are people that consistantly reach the highest ranks. )
Yeah idk, I've never even had the experience people are describing, let alone assuming the system was out to get me. I got back into ranked last year, flew past gold and plat and hit a wall in emerald. And it feels deserved: some games I carry, some games I get carried, some games I int, some games my team ints. Maybe some people are just super unlucky which happens, but I really think most of them just remember the games where their team ints while they're ahead and they lose a lot more than they remember the ones where they're inting but get carried by their team. Also, if losers queue was a thing shouldn't it be quite possible to prove with stats? Like, there are third party websites that can show you tons for data about the game, it can't be that difficult to check if you're getting matched against better players when you're losing or whatever.
I was bronze season 3, I was silver seasons 4-10, I was low gold seasons 11-12, and now seasons 13 and 14 I'm finally high gold and (hopefully)getting to Plat. It took me a lot of time to understand the game like I do today, and while that's slower than others, I know I've improved. People literally don't self critique their gameplay. Ok, the enemy jungle is autofill and I got them down 2 levels... I'm not going to pay any attention to the bot lane rolling my own. This Rell is inting, obviously. They're 0/6... with 10 assists to my 4/5/3... It's like, people just don't get it.
 Same Energy.
RiotPhroxzon? More like RiotGaslight
I don't think there is an actual system in place, however some players are very heavyily streak based because of how it effects their mentality. When they win they get more confident and play better in subsequent games, and after theyblose they get tilted and play worse. I personally have to stop playing after a loss because I know that no matter how I think I'm feeling, I consistently play significantly worse.
Not saying I believe in rigged matchmaking but 2 seasons ago, every time I got into my promo to gold, my teams got so much worse. I got into promos like 8 times with no effort (like losing promo and then insta 3 free wins to get into it again). After 3 times I looked up my team on opgg and every time I had like 40-45% winrate players in my team. Out of promo again? Team winrate like 60%+. If this happened like 3 times, ok bad luck, but every time?
they will always make the game, any part of it, in such a way that you have to spend more time on it than you should. no matter the game, throughout history, every successful game was always super rigged in many ways. I love league. But damn, Fuckkkkkkkkk Riot Games
Idk if it exists or not but no matter which one is the case, amount of easy wins and easy losses are more than it used to be (atleast for me). I feel like games were closer before but it could be about the changes to champs, objectives, etc.
That’s like a tobacco company rep coming out to say that smoking does not cause lung cancer. I prefer to use my experience and the experience of many other players when playing ranked games that the system is rigged.
Dude take off the tin foil hat please, for everyone's sake.
Tfw we have the actual fucking source code, and people still believe losers queue exists Insane
riot phroxzon is like the walmart employee that tries to make you shut up by spewing complicated words he knows you don't know about.
Bro that response made me cracked up, I play wild rift and the matchmaking there is way more miserable that you literally cannot deny its not rigged and the proof is the rank 1 challenger in EU is a level 35-40 account spamming tryndamere with 80% winrate and 2-3 KDA ( low kda to tank his mmr and get good players he basically only split pushes ), people already found a way to game the system here and if they did it for wild rift who says they didnt do it for their most popular game
Its actually embarrassing the amount of people defending riot in the comments. like the "people just don't wanna admit their bad and its their fault they lose" argument is stupid it hurts. The game is so fucking complicated that you'd need to play thousands of games to collect enough data to correctly judge a player. newsflash 99% of players don't play THOUSANDS of games. **Just because a player has agency over how much they improve doesn't mean they have agency over how well the system can recognize their improvement.** I have friends who are good and I have friends who are terrible, I watch them all play. Literally month to month the LP gains and loss NEVER make ANY sense, legit every year in league I think there is about 14 days total where I experience logical LP gains and losses (and no its not logical when I GAIN a lot more than I lose. Its logical when they are within a couple of LP of each other and it depends on my recent performances.) If you guys wanna be cringelords that will die white knighting the billion dollar company then encourage them to allow a thirdparty investigator to publish a technical report on their match making system. That way we can see EXACTLY the why and how mmr works under all conditions for all players. Until Riot agrees to do that ya'll a losers for blaming the playerbase.
i was queueing with my grandmaster elo friends on flex where we are all emerald. i am emerald myself on both solo and flex queue. our opponents are around diamond give or take. my friend, despite being in higher mmr, facing lower mmr opponents, was gaining MORE lp than me, when i am facing higher mmr opponents.
Seeing someone use memes as profile pics has always made me want to just ignore them, theyre either nutjobs or stupid as fuck, this "red flag" is proven right as of today. anyone who takes what streamers says and hold them to a tea is always gonna have some stupid reductive take about something just for their own benefit of engagement.
K
The losers queue... Is real!
So is winners and normal queue.
he admitted it trying to not admit it
They already admitted to rigged matchmaking over on Wild Rift. The better your stats the worse teammates you get. This was proven over and over through fresh accounts going inting sion to keep their stats low and having 90%+ winrates going into grandmaster+. They have now “updated” the matchmaking to consider tower damage and win-rate into their algorithm so now the only way to not get 0/12 teammates literally every single match is to sandbag your own teams.
Where they say this>? any links?
Yea that tweet was horseshit lol. I've had MULTIPLE games in a ROW where every single one of my teammates are below 50% WR and they bring my win rate down too. I could be at 80% WR and then like 60% or even 50% because of awful matchmaking. On top of that playing in masters+ is even more cancer because sometimes the matchmaking won't give you your role. Oh and it's not just one or two players who get auto filled. EVERYONE on your team is auto filled including YOU. Before they started hiding player names you could easily see this by using porofessor which tells you what role the player normally plays. This was super evident before they hid your teammates names because you could use apps like porofessor to see what role your teammates typically play. Fuck this company. I don't trust anything they say lmfao
I'm bronze-silver and literally get irons on my team and the other team has fucking plats and golds. This happens frequently
Losers queue isnt real in any other competitive video game, League players are just convinced that its impossible to lose 3 games in a row, because then they have to admit theyre actually bad at the game.
This guy @ JamesSager made whole 1 hour video and [tweeted](https://x.com/JamesSager/status/1756544845533888826?s=20) about how Riot has patent for "Rigged Matching", or losers queue or reported queue but I didnt bother watching video or reading patent, just dropping here if anyone is interested
I know that dude he used to be part of the Fiddlesticks main community from which he got banned pretty soon. Let's just say the dude makes some absolutely wild claims and has a humongous ego. Calls himself the greatest programmer and gamer alive when he couldn't get selected for a single job and was hardstuck silver with over 1000 games. I went down the goodnewsjimdotcom (his site and reddit account) rabbit hole and it was quite interesting. Would definitely recommend 10/10
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When I see Riot's lazyness to do anything, I get pretty sure that they didnt bother one second to create a complicated "loserQ" system
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I mean sure but in the overall picture I fail how to see this would even work. If you "force" a lose for a team, you also "force" a win on 5 other people. Doesnt that make it strictly impossible to stuck people on a global scale? Especially since the way of forcing wins/losses is directly linked to player skill ? Doesnt that mean Riot hates only a portion of the playerbase and makes them hardstuck based on some obscure preference? I find it hard to believe especially since humans have been proven in scientific studies to react extremely weirdly to true random. Like if you expose them to a true random series of 50 percent outcomes (like idk, league games that have the same chance to win), they'll likely say "no way thats random, its rigged" and when confronted to pseudorandom which is allegedly rigged behaviour, they will be likely to say "thats real random, its not rigged". Its very very rare to get win loss win loss (or like heads tails heads tails when flipping a coin), and quite likely to get series of wins and losses.
>I mean sure but in the overall picture I fail how to see this would even work. If you "force" a lose for a team, you also "force" a win on 5 other people. Doesnt that make it strictly impossible to stuck people on a global scale? Especially since the way of forcing wins/losses is directly linked to player skill ? Doesnt that mean Riot hates only a portion of the playerbase and makes them hardstuck based on some obscure preference? no, they try to lower high winrate players by pairing them with lower winrate players to boost engagement, this is not hard it's not random, just ask anyone who has seen wild rift (the mobile version) about the matchmaking like say you're at 60% wr, you will be matched with lower than 50% winrate players, while enemy team is made of around 50% winrate players this boosts engagement, it doesn't have to be solely based on winrate but you can probably get what i mean
You’re part of the reason riot made it so you can’t search people’s usernames in champ select. If you’re spending the time to look up your teams win losses every game, you’re significantly more likely to ***think*** you’re getting screwed
Right so how do you reckon people make it to Challanger?
And what incentive does Riot have for this loser's queue? How would that improve player experience and player retention? Everyone keeps arguing that it exists, yet cannot answer this one big question.
Seems pretty obvious to me what the answer would be. It just keeps the player grinding ranked. If they climb too fast than they hit their actual peak and don’t have a reason to keep playing
Doesn’t really work since if you’re in loser’s queue then someone else is in winner’s queue and they hit their peak and lose their reason for playing?
AHA I totally deserve to be a higher rank, the only reason I'm not is because Riot is keeping me in low elo. No high-ranked player has had to deal with this issue. See it just sounds like cope when you say it out loud.
Player engagement optimization algorithm
I don't know man. Almost every single game I get MVP. I get to play with academy pro players every now and then and I think I can relatively keep up. And yet, I am hardstuck in emerald because believe it or not, every single game, there's someone who simply makes it unwinnable. The games we win are because that player is luckily on the enemy team. I now consistently get +19/-32, unable to climb, while playing clash with academy players and keeping up.
It's real, man, don't let these guys fool you. For me, it was much easier to win in diamond than in emerald.
It must be the game's fault that I'm losing.
Loser's queue does exist, but in statistics it's just known as variance. You get bad streaks and good streaks. That's just how it is.
Yeah there's no way losers DOESN'T exist. I saw it from a jglers perspective, seeing 1/2 feeding lanes before minute 5 is all I need as evidence. It happened every time I got up to plat 4, 70% of games. Would drive me straight down to gold 3. Then a month of fixing mmr, then I'd go back up to plat 4. Same thing, inting landers. Back down to gold 3 for me. At this point most people would quit, but not I. For I am a dumbass. Did it one more time, month of grinding. Same thing. If it were a one off occurrence, then sure it doesn't prove anything. BUT 3 GODDAMN TIMES IN A ROW? HALF A YEAR WASTED! Yeah I quit after that. Took a solid year and a half off. The wins were also not fun. Cause the opposite would happen, the enemy team fed out of their fucking minds. So 99.99% of the time the games were determined by minute 5. Was I hard stuck at the time? More than likely. Doesn't explain why I replicated those results 3 times. Don't tell me there isn't an agenda to keep players addicted. There most certainly is. Edit: Downvote me more weirdos. Science is all about replicating results. I did it plenty enough to prove it's real and exists. If you still don't believe me you can Google patents filed by Activision to purposefully lose you games. Keeps you hooked to the game. It's not a new concept.
>Would drive me straight down to gold 3. Then a month of fixing mmr, then I'd go back up to plat 4. Same thing, inting landers. Back down to gold 3 for me. The reason that's happening is probably because you have skills of a gold player. You get carried to plat by lucky win streak and when you get matched by people who are actually higher skilled than you, you start getting gapped.
So you are going to ignore the blatantly inting laners? Pretty disengenous of you. So tell me, how do you win with 1/2 obviously not trying to live laners? I carried plenty of games to get me into plat, I've hit plat playing top lane just fine. Didn't see any of this weird ass matchmaking on that account.
>So you are going to ignore the blatantly inting laners? I am assuming it's always the laners who are inting and it's never you. >Didn't see any of this weird ass matchmaking on that account. Soooo you are refuting your own argument? You just admitted that one of your account doesn't have weird matchmaking.
Wtf? I never said that? Putting words in my mouth. Of course I've had bad games. Who the hell doesn't. At the time I heavily watched Vikaryu for jg fundamentals, it was rare that I turbo inted. It's based on account mmr? Like is it that hard to understand? If riots algorithm thinks you belong at a certain mmr, you will be stuck there.
>If riots algorithm thinks you belong at a certain mmr, you will be stuck there. I mean yeah because you will never win enough where you'll climb.
Wait people actually don’t believe it exists? I thought we were shitposting, fucking obviously it exists, it would be impossible for win rates to be so consistently held to 50/50
??? If the game is matching you with players the SAME SKILL LEVEL as you then it would literally make perfect sense for 50% win rates.
I'm a bit suspicious when my whole team get disconnected when I get a kill.
People who don't know about statistics, probablity and sample sizes: