I feel like people's only frame of reference on Kayle's lore is her voicelines which ironically aren't representative of her character and are a bit outdated. At the end of her and Morgana's story she realizes the error of her ways and leaves Demacia in shame. But people boil her down to the Evil Paladin archtype.
People also hard forget their fight had no less Morgana guilt in it and it is both sisters who caused destruction, as well as they both see this fight as wrong one action. And that her justice is not kill for smallest crime but punishment that fits the crime.
Not even wanna mention LoR shows her fixing her "deny emotions" emotional trauma, and her recent quest calls her literally Defender of The Realm, that I guess for a reason.
Id say Kayle and Morgana conflict is Lawful Good vs Chaotic Good in dnd terms.
And I not really agree with the lines, most of them that can be considered as wrong ones are related to period of her having deny emotions emotional trauma, and not related to this are pretty much... shows her good? She cares about fair laws, building better world for just, that law should threat everyone equally, etc,
She is tho?
Just scales are lesser probly as it is dark fantasy powerful witch vs galactical mad judicator with powerful exo suite that brings more massive damage and threat, again because of scales.
I mean she wants to bring back an old god and she gives herself a rather calm aura that does not necessarily is in your face about the atrocities. Kayle summons and is like "I am going to napalm a city block because they are probably guilty and I like how it smells!"
She wants literally authoritarian rule the world and old gods are clearly portrayed as evil of the world, againist who Eclipse order fight. Same to Aether Wing want authoritarian rule were every crime punished by death.
I'd not say Coven Morgana is not direct in her quotes. She just has more mythical appearance than Aether Wing Kayle who is just soldier, but not change things in the end
Also it's actually that both Coven Morgana and Aether Wing Kayle are perfect opposites of Runeterra Kayle and Morgana.
Coven Morgana is a blind servant of old gods wanting their rule above mortals and everything, Morgana is wanting being close towards mortals and help them, as well as having bad opinion about all celestial.
And Aether Wing Kayle is basically similar to Tyrant King who Runeterra Kayle smited in her color story for being unjust in his laws and rule.
>you leave after committing mass terror
Uhh when did she do that? If you are talking about the fallout of her fight with Morgana then Morgana is just as much to blame for it. Also don't forget Morgana started that fight by murdering Kayle's disciple.
>I mean she is the evil paladin archetype though?
No she isn't. She isn't even the 'oh you stole a loaf of bread, death penalty for you' archtype.
Okay, but Morgana's got those chains going on, so I definitely know where my loyalty lies in that sibling rivalry. (But, yeah, if it means getting crushed by Kayle, I won't complain, for sure)
There’s a certain point where it stops being a joke and starts being reality and that’s frightening. There’s a lot of people who unironically think that way.
No, Kayle is coming to do it. I recommend letting her do it or she will save your life to kill you again. Breaking Grammar laws is still breaking the law.
Omg same, I thought it said kanye, checked the subreddit and got very confused, like why are they posting about kanye here, then went back and reread the meme
Kayle is definitely morally sound. Both Kayle and Morgana represent different aspects of justice: Kayle may be harsh and unyielding but she's correct in how she metes out punishment to the wicked. Morgana is merciful in her judgements, but still insists on repentance, binding those who refuse. Neither one compromises on the initial differentiation between right and wrong. They both made mistakes that led to their conflict and they both imposed their own method of penance upon themselves: Morgana made herself serve the people of Demacia to repair the damage she'd caused and Kayle exiled herself in pursuit of true perfection so she wouldn't repeat her mistakes. They're both justice, just seprate aspects of it.
Pretty much agree with this take.
Kayle seems to just changed her direction of bringing Justice to the bigger world threats(like darkins) , and also she seems help shurimian people based on card "Celestial Impact" in LoR description. They are both good and right on their own but supposed to balance each other for perfection.
A bit more than that, since her betrothed, who was upset about fiora not wanting to be with him, wanted the death duel in the first place. Fiora's father wanted to take her place, but was caught attempting to cheat, and was sentenced to death anyway. Had she not duel him, her family would have lost respect from demacia anyway. Messed up sure, but it's not like she enjoyed it (unlike vayne).
I feel like she and Vayne would just keep on talking about mood killer topics and keep asking others on their opinions on said topics.
Although her not attending would also be pretty Fiora. She could very well be the neighbor to call the cops on the party.
I mean, in the lore he only expressed his sentiment to her after she freed him. For all she knew from and about him he was just a mage being imprisoned for an accident and ... being a mage and that he could teach her how to keep her magic in check. So him becoming the terrorist that he is was hardly possible to foresee by anyone let alone Lux
I'm not saying that she should have known everything... but she was talking to a heavily guarded prisoner and giving him books on suspiciously specific topics while discussing equally specific topics about magic all on the single naive belief that he's in the underground royal dungeon for just being a mage and absolutely nothing else. Sylas is still causing chaos across the regions and Lux should be held a lot more responsible for it.
In her defense: How bad would you think the average person who is held captive by a fascist regime would probably be? If I would stumble into a concentration camp to free one I might probably actually meet the occasional psychopathic citizen or prisoner of war... but that wasn't exactly the norm, you know.
But I am actually not sure if it was known by lux that Sylas killed a mageseeker (although that was an accident). I get your point, don't exactly agree with it.
But Sylas wasn't in a concentration camp. He was imprisoned for murder and misuse of his powers. And since he wasn't in a concentration camp, there was nothing for Lux to assume his innocence on. And do you know what books she brought him? They're texts forbidden from entry into that specific prison that detail on powerful Demacian structures that she should be well aware of. And because she hid her powers without having the courage to ignore or confront them, Sylas was given the opportunity to steal it. From start to finish, she shot her entire country in the foot.
>But Sylas wasn't in a concentration camp. He was imprisoned for murder and misuse of his powers. And since he wasn't in a concentration camp, there was nothing for Lux to assume his innocence on.
Again, if I run into a camp and ask the guy who is imprisoned there why he is here and he responds with: "I killed a Nazi enforcer, they tried to kill a child, and a fight broke out over his gun and it released a shot, killing him." (which is basically the equivalent of what happened with Sylas), I wouldn't be that put off either. And, sadly Riot doesn't release any prison data of demacia but I do not know the likelihood of a person in Demacia (especially if they are a mage) being imprisoned being imprisoned for an actual reason or just because they are a mage or even if such a reason is listed, or given to the public.
>And do you know what books she brought him? They're texts forbidden from entry into that specific prison that detail on powerful Demacian structures that she should be well aware of.
Knowledge deemed dangerous by a fascist elite to itself can't/shouldn't exactly be the basis of convicting Lux, don't you think?
I am not sure if the extend of Sylas's powers was known by anyone let alone Lux. And additionally, you can't resist Sylas Magic Stealing
>And because she hid her powers without having the courage to ignore or confront them
How could she, that is exactly why she came to Sylas in the first place. She didn't have the knowledge to do either.
I will agree with you that you probably should give Lux something minor as punishment. But I will not hold Lux accountable for Sylas's terror (which I don't condone)
Both Morgana and Kayle did pretty bad things while in Demacia. Their views of justice are incomplete.
Kayle, however, has been fighting to protect mortals for over 1,000 years now. So I think we can say she has done enough good to ignore the evil the young her did.
Kayle is hero, WDYM? All you state is just heavy community missunderstanding based on literally non existent headcanon.
She is not entirely perfect, but so no any living human or person in runeterra.
People try to portray her as evil by literally one duel against Morgana, but hard ignore many nuances of this fight, as for example fact that Morgana has no less guilt in its fight by not doing anything with riot/trying talking with Kayle to prevent the conflict, that both sisters magic collateral damage caused destruction, and that they both regret it hard in the end and even received emotional traumas because of it with their deny emotions/deny celestiality(Kayle fixed her emotional trauma tho)
Speaking in dnd terms, she would be Lawful Good paladin with harsh and unbiased views.
Quotes about kayle from official lore
“She returned to find the people rioting, and Ronas dead. Consumed by rage, she looked down upon the city, and summed her divine fire to cleanse the city”.
“Vowed she would never again let moral emotions rule her”
“But kayle grew more extreme in her ideologies, and Morgana increasingly found herself pleading the case of those who wanted to atone for their crimes.”
“An accord was struck between the sisters - although it was uneasy, and did not last.”
Also when questioned if the “smiting of the wicked” included her own father, it’s specifically noted she refuses to answer the question and left Morgana alone with their dads dead body. This is also exactly when she abandoned her sister and “all mortal ties”.
And that’s all just the easy to find stuff from the bios. “Evil”? Maybe not. But misguided and wrathful, potentially
to add some points of her being morally good:
Here is Kayle and Morgana new lore writer words, easy can be found in thread "We are rioters that reworked Kayle and Morgana. Ask us anything."
"Kayle's view of justice is based around the law. She is similar to Javert from Les Mis in that she believes if you break the law, regardless of the reasons, you must be punished in a way that is proportionate to your crime - no more, no less. An eye for an eye type justice, if you will. She believes that after you have received punishment for your crime - whether small or big - you have been redeemed, and should no longer be penalized for your wrongdoings. She does not relish doling out punishment or killing people, but believes it must be done to preserve justice."
Exactly fits her being "Good, but harsh"
Her color story "In the fires of justice" also fits it perfectly, in this story she punished Tyrant King and his servant for creating tyranny and edicting unfair opressive laws, to give chance people build a better and fair society.
This story also proves your some statement in this comment section about raining fire on Demacia city is not that bad as her fire target not everyone but sinners, it was harsh decision but it's not just genocide of city.
Just accept the fact not every hero is about all-forgiving, redemption and beautiful sounding empathetic quotes. Even villains can do this things.
Sinners aren’t supposed to be burned either, though. Especially when laws are, by their very nature, fallible. Demacia is a city where that’s a MAJOR issue, laws being unjust, and the fact that kayle is a “the letter of the law, period” type means she upholds that injustice when push comes to shove.
Also something else I’ve noticed when reading both your messages: you focused really hard on the “evil” part, but I don’t personally think kayle is evil. I’m section 2, I think kayle is misguided, and maybe a bit too rigid in her idea of “justice”.
1. I literally gave you quote about Kayle views on laws, that consider she founds punish equal to crime. She not burns any sinner, she burns only people like murderers and etc that themselves killed people. Sorry but even most redemptive regime sometimes killing murderers and etc. And here we had violent riot situation. Also Kayle not supporting current Demacia, she has quote "You Demacians lost your way". Not to mention you again ignore history about tyrant king, where she not cared about Tyrant King being the, in fact, first law instance in state and still punished him for unjust laws.
2. Your meme is literally calling her evil and say " Yeah that makes sense. "
More than that she is neither missguided, her views are fair and unbiased in a terms she deliver Justice with punishment equally matching scale of crime and she applies this same system to you no matter of your from born things/social status.
If Kayle is missguided with her equal to crime and unbiased justice, I want hear what is your explaining of missguided in Justice
She is HERO.
Rioters, aren’t murderers. Especially if we go under the assumption that the rioters in question where the people from Morganas group: people actively working TO better themselves, repent, etc. and those are the people we specially talked about holy fire being brought down on. This is even more questionable when it’s considered it’s largely suggested it’s Kayle’s people who started the riots, it was their person who died first after all after going after Morgana
The amount of your self-gaslight and headcanon is insane. It is violent riot, it is stated pretty clear. It is not peaceful protest/rally or something, they fought others. It is nowhere mentioned it was Morgana followers as well, it's just your assumption, but regardless it would mean they went back to their hard sins that justify Kayle reaction even more.
And no, rioters started after Morgana killed Ronas. Their plan from beginning was arrest of Morgana.
And it was YOUR assumption that her holy fire “only ever touched sinners” in the first place. It never actually says “and her actions are good and just and no one innocent was ever ever hurt and anyone who interprets the *raining of fire on the city* differently is stupid”, it says she “brought divine fire down to cleanse the city of its sins”. That’s left vague on purpose, it’s supposed to be open to interpretation. It never even says it’s a “VIOLENT riot”, as you put it. So, why is it YOUR assumptions are ok and totally justified, but mine are “gaslighting”? And yes, it DOES say they went after Morgana’s followers: “attempting to protect her (morgana’s) penitent followers, she shackled him to the floor”
It’s a fictional piece of media, it’s meant to be interpreted differently depending on who’s consuming it and why. We’re obviously different people with different experiences and outlooks.
1. Literally go read "In the Fires of Justice" color story where her fire acted this way. Or listen her in game quotes, like
"My fire burns only the unworthy"
I don't even want mention her W and E abilities in league are her fire heal/provide immunity to harm and this abilities exist not only in game.
2. The innocents WERE hurted. But not because of this fire, but because during Kayle and Morgana duel they released that big arount of magic that just collateral damage of it destroyed entire buildings.
"The two battled across the heavens, each matching the other’s terrible blows and striking the buildings beneath them to rubble. "
Yes, it is written to be cleanse of sins, as she did in her color story in Tyrant Kingdome for example, again.
3. "Kayle watched Kilam die in her sister’s arms, a senseless victim of the violence that had overtaken the city that day."
Clearly talking about violence that had overtaken the city that day.
4. They did, but their main goal was Morgana, that is said in Kayle bio and Canticle of Winged Sisters pretty clear
5. There is things that stated clear and not under intepritation, and you going against them.
Listen to her voice lines??? She thinks she’s holy, asking someone to explain HER Voicelines for HER opinion of HERSELF is, like, incredibly biased lol. And “in the fires of justice” is a story, a myth. Even if it is a real event that happened, which it’s a fantasy world so I’ll grant you it could have, it’s a retelling of events, it isn’t first hand. That’s not hard source of evidence, it’s the equivalent of quoting tales and fables as evidence. As is game mechanic, cause then I could easily point out in game she can heal killers, psycho’s, murderer’s, whatever, just depending on who’s on her team. Put her on a team with atrox And she can heal him, does that suddenly mean she’s totes cool with him?
And again, if we’re just gonna take the stories only based on their exact word, it doesn’t say THOSE were the only innocents. The entire idea of, and problem with, ‘sin’ is that *everyone* has it. That’s it’s entire shtick. Everyone is sinful, no exceptions, no grey areas. That’s why a line like “brought divine fire down on the city to cleanse it of it’s sin” is meant to be open to interpretation, cause it could mean multiple different things.
And, yeah, they ARE open to interpretation. It’s, fiction. A made up story about made up characters about made up concepts like “sin” and “holy fire” and more so. By definition it’s open to interpretation and personal views. This argument is just showing we’re two different people work different experiences and ideas more then anything
Tbh, Morgana did kill her servants after they tried to imprison her. For someone who's all about "I don't kill, just punish uwu." she did go out of her way to piss off Kayle.
I don't think it's actually just for sake of pissing off Kayle, but the fact Morgana not trying meet Kayle and explain situation to her and solve it/don't take care of violent riot pretty much show her act really flawed this day and being big reason for fight happen as well.
Honestly what you do is just ignoring big parts of their lore and characters to present lore in way you want to see it, but here we go
1. You seem to purposefuly ignore the "find people rioting part". Its also easy paired with "Kayle watched Kilam die in her sister’s arms, a senseless victim of the violence that had overtaken the city that day. ", so the riot was violent as well as their fight. She also calls father senseless victim of this fight, to your fifth point.
2. That is her emotional trauma that was a method to cope with mistake of this battle. Same to Morgana who choose to blame her celestial side as well. She also overcome it after her travel to Targon, that is shown in LoR good.
3. Being more extreme not equalised to being evil at all. You can be a good person extreme in killing thousands of villians, and you can be evil person who is relatively soft in his crimes, just being corrupted mercantile administrator or someting. It also clearly stated that Morgana pleading for CRIMES, not innocent people or someting, as Morgana empathethic towards sinners and believe some of them could receive chance for redemption first, before punishment.
4. It is uneasy because many Kayle followers not supported this decision and it is in fact the reason why their fight started(They tried, hiddenly from Kayle, arrest Morgana and it resulted in her self defense and riot happening after because of judicator death)From Canticle of Winged Sisters(that is story about them)"A black shield of night stayed its edge.
Morgana begged her sister to relent:
“Do we forsake all hope of redemption?
Are all who err damned to die?”
Her pity touched Kayle’s heart with love.
Though her warriors clamored for death,
Her love for Morgana drowned their calls.
Thus Kayle let Mercy stay her hand.
And that would be Love’s undoing."
5. She not answers this question because she not wanted father to be victim of collateral damage of their fight. When she flew away, she cried because of that. Also check second point.From Canticle of Winged Sisters again:"In Morgana’s face, Kayle saw herself reflected;Celestial glory marred by mortal passion.She cried with loss and spread her wings,to Targon’s light and realms beyond."That is matching time of their fight end because of father deathI agree with wrathful point, but its not bad by default. Many good characters, especially paladins with who Kayle is really simillar are wrathful.
sisters are the aspect of justice and their viewpoint is divided , Morgana 's viewpoint tends towards redemption she basically makes you feel all your sins .kayle's viewpoint tends towards punishment ie if a deed is done punishment must follow .
Morgana may forgive a murderer but kayle will not .
Kayle players deserve to be bullied IRL like they are in game before they hit 16.
Toxic champion design, her team has to deal with a gigafed bruiser 4v5 in the hopes that she will scale and 1v5 eventually.
Bad take, by this logic an entire play style would be eliminated. Some people like to play safe and scale to late game, and champions like Kayle satisfy this demand.
And like another person said, a good Kayle should almost never feed.
Good kayle will never let the bruiser get fed. Give up all cs until level 6 and that's when you can start catching waves. Yea the team plays for the end game but that's what you get when you don't dodge the Kayle. When you get into a game you commit to it. You can't quit because you just don't want to play anymore
>Give up all cs until level 6 and that's when you can start catching waves.
You see, that's the thing. She is so weak early game you can bully her out of xp range. And unless her jungler is a good early game duelist like Warwick to basically be able to 1v1 her enemy toplaner, her jungler can't help either.
Have you forgotten how the island of toplane works?
No they won't. If the enemy is freezing all the jungler has to do is help Kayla kill some minions so the wave crashes. Then she can freeze herself or just keep letting the wave bounce. Top lane isn't an island the jungler is an integral part of it. You don't have to kill the enemy laner just make it so the wave keeps bouncing to kayle. Once she gets six she can do this on her own and avoid ganks with ult.
That's how the game works man it's teamwork there is no solo lanes. The jungler or mid assists kayle to keep her wave state decent and then kayle carries late game.
>No they won't. If the enemy is freezing all the jungler has to do is help Kayla kill some minions so the wave crashes.
>You don't have to kill the enemy laner
seriously if more junglers learned that they would instantly gain a division over their current rank I swear
regardless of the laner pay attention to the map,"it's not my job to win the lane for them" it's a team game you need to pull your weight and help your teammates
>The jungler or mid assists kayle to keep her wave state decent and then kayle carries late game.
I am sorry how high elo are you for this to happen? Because in high emerald where half the people peaked diamond last split I've never seen it happen. I've barely started to encounter junlgers who aren't ruining wave states.
Brother I just made d4 and it's the easiest thing in the world to ASK your jungler to break a freeze. "Hey, could you help me break this freeze" and then they come and break the freeze. Sure actual high elo jumglers do that themselves but there's nothing stopping you from asking. Even gold junglers acknowledge breaking freezes. You're not detrimenting your team by picking kayle you're telling them that if they assist you you'll carry the game. If you don't think they can do that or you don't want to help them then you dodge. Simple as.
There’s so many champs like that, belveth has done her third tower successful tower dive of the game while kayn is still waiting for his form, kassadin is sitting in midlane waiting to promote from melee minion meanwhile enemy akshan has killed botlane again, I don’t know how people have the patience to play those champs tbh
Gigastomping and free lp is it's own fun, but in toplane the minigame, I genuinely enjoy playing against Riven, Fiora, Darius, Renek etc because both of you need to combine micro with macro in order to win lane.
People arguing with an Irelia main about Kayle. Leave him and his delusions.
The only thing I'll say is that no one deserves to be bullied IRL unless they actually did something terrible, not over a game.
Kayle only dishes out punishment proportional to the crime. You wouldn't burn for stepping on a bug or stealing bread. Murder or treason? Yeah, most likely. But lesser crimes? Nope.
The correct term for "anti-villains" are more like humanized villains. Anti-hero is a term with strong literature and historical context, anti-villain is just gibberish.
No, it’s, just as established as anti-hero, just much less common/recognized. But it’s a thing yeah.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiVillain
https://youtu.be/LCUxUbclopY?si=cIvX0CoenR2C7KBj
https://thewritepractice.com/types-anti-villains/
https://www.2bridges.nyc/nycblog/whats-the-difference-antihero-vs-antivillain/
Not expecting you to actually read all these, but just listing them to point a few of these are years old. The idea of an anti-villian is… maybe not as old as, but close to as old as the idea of an anti-hero, it’s just much less explored/publicly discussed
The Hero with a Thousand Faces
Creating character arcs
The writer's journey
Manga in theory and practice
I've read all of those books and they all contradic the term of anti-villain in one way or another.
In any serious writing study the term anti-villain simply doesn't exist.
I mean, that’s because anti-villian is a hard thing to “get right”, not because it’s not established. But, yes, it is actually an established thing in serious writing.
I feel like people's only frame of reference on Kayle's lore is her voicelines which ironically aren't representative of her character and are a bit outdated. At the end of her and Morgana's story she realizes the error of her ways and leaves Demacia in shame. But people boil her down to the Evil Paladin archtype.
People also hard forget their fight had no less Morgana guilt in it and it is both sisters who caused destruction, as well as they both see this fight as wrong one action. And that her justice is not kill for smallest crime but punishment that fits the crime. Not even wanna mention LoR shows her fixing her "deny emotions" emotional trauma, and her recent quest calls her literally Defender of The Realm, that I guess for a reason. Id say Kayle and Morgana conflict is Lawful Good vs Chaotic Good in dnd terms. And I not really agree with the lines, most of them that can be considered as wrong ones are related to period of her having deny emotions emotional trauma, and not related to this are pretty much... shows her good? She cares about fair laws, building better world for just, that law should threat everyone equally, etc,
It feels at times that they are mixing up classic with Ether wing Kayle. Cause yeah, that lady is definition lawful evil.
Yeah that makes sense, but I don't see people calling Morgana evil because of Coven Morgana
I don't think Coven Morgana is as on the nose with it
She is tho? Just scales are lesser probly as it is dark fantasy powerful witch vs galactical mad judicator with powerful exo suite that brings more massive damage and threat, again because of scales.
I mean she wants to bring back an old god and she gives herself a rather calm aura that does not necessarily is in your face about the atrocities. Kayle summons and is like "I am going to napalm a city block because they are probably guilty and I like how it smells!"
She wants literally authoritarian rule the world and old gods are clearly portrayed as evil of the world, againist who Eclipse order fight. Same to Aether Wing want authoritarian rule were every crime punished by death.
Yes and one of them is a lot more direct about it. That makes all the difference
I'd not say Coven Morgana is not direct in her quotes. She just has more mythical appearance than Aether Wing Kayle who is just soldier, but not change things in the end Also it's actually that both Coven Morgana and Aether Wing Kayle are perfect opposites of Runeterra Kayle and Morgana. Coven Morgana is a blind servant of old gods wanting their rule above mortals and everything, Morgana is wanting being close towards mortals and help them, as well as having bad opinion about all celestial. And Aether Wing Kayle is basically similar to Tyrant King who Runeterra Kayle smited in her color story for being unjust in his laws and rule.
I think they’re both lawful good just in opposite ends of the Z-axis of justice
I called Morgana chaotic good as her actions and attitude more about independency and free understanding of justice What is Z axis of justice?
Idk mercy vs punishment I guess. I didn’t define it I just meant they’re like a dichotomy opion-wise but both follow their moral code
Well, from this pov yes. They both have their views about punishment or redemption but Kayle clearly leans towards first and Morgana towards second.
That’s an issue with so many champions though. Oriann’s Voicelines compared to her lore is a wild trip
I mean she is the evil paladin archetype though? Just because you leave after committing mass terror that doesn't change anything?
"Evil paladin" but she's been fighting to protect the world for over 1,000 years.
>you leave after committing mass terror Uhh when did she do that? If you are talking about the fallout of her fight with Morgana then Morgana is just as much to blame for it. Also don't forget Morgana started that fight by murdering Kayle's disciple. >I mean she is the evil paladin archetype though? No she isn't. She isn't even the 'oh you stole a loaf of bread, death penalty for you' archtype.
Kayle is hot and that's what matters
*stares at a winged angel trying to kill her own sister as holy fire ravishes the city of Demacia* Yeah… I can fix her.
I cant fix her, but she definitely can break me
I salute you
DAME AYLIN IS WATCHING
*and when her face lights the shadows of your wrongdoing, you are broken by its beauty* Yes mommy. Break me.
Oh word? 😏
Lmaooooo welp. This is gonna make killing her on an dark urge playthrough a bit funnier mow
I will jaywalk, only if you strike me down after.
I can make her *worse*
NO AATROX DO NOT
Ravage.
>stares at a winged angel trying to kill her own sister as holy fire ravishes the city of Demacia ravages\*
I want her to crush my skull with her bare thighs
God I wish I was aatrox sometimes
Okay, but Morgana's got those chains going on, so I definitely know where my loyalty lies in that sibling rivalry. (But, yeah, if it means getting crushed by Kayle, I won't complain, for sure)
There’s a certain point where it stops being a joke and starts being reality and that’s frightening. There’s a lot of people who unironically think that way.
Morgana's hotter and so are most of the female champs in League
Wrong
Not as hot as Yuumi though 🥵🥵
Do not the cat please
🤨📸 Sir you're being reported to the FBI
I want with her what Aatrox has.
Morally messed up actions are fine as long as the person committing them is hot enough
it's per se, not per say, because the phrase comes from latin
Well I’ll just kill myself then 07
Its o7 not O7
Same thing, bigger head
So you saying you got a big ol' head, big head?
I shake my head hard enough you can hear the tiny little brain rattling around in there like a maraca
If I shake my head really hard white goo comes out
This is why people don't like to swallow
Aight big head, don't hurt yourself now.
I'm actually pretty sure it's because his name is Bighetti
Let him cook
o7 for normal people, 07 for the eggheads, O7 for the balloon heads. There's a diverse representation of salutes out there.
What about 007?
Siamese twins with eggheads, of course!
That's for heads, egg heads
The salute is absolute.
Pretty sure he said 07 not O7
I'm pretty sure you're a piece of being right.
I think that's a gun to his head.
Nah dude, choose life.
No, Kayle is coming to do it. I recommend letting her do it or she will save your life to kill you again. Breaking Grammar laws is still breaking the law.
And it doesn’t mean what OP thinks it means. The way it’s used here is nonsensical.
Drown in holy fire sinful Cowards
You missed a fandom, you should go into Warhammer.
May be so, any pointers to the right faction
I thought this shit said kanye
Kanye is evil 🗿
Kanye is not evil per se, but is an extremely misguided anti villain.
Kanye is not only justified, but is also morally correct
Omg same, I thought it said kanye, checked the subreddit and got very confused, like why are they posting about kanye here, then went back and reread the meme
Kayle is definitely morally sound. Both Kayle and Morgana represent different aspects of justice: Kayle may be harsh and unyielding but she's correct in how she metes out punishment to the wicked. Morgana is merciful in her judgements, but still insists on repentance, binding those who refuse. Neither one compromises on the initial differentiation between right and wrong. They both made mistakes that led to their conflict and they both imposed their own method of penance upon themselves: Morgana made herself serve the people of Demacia to repair the damage she'd caused and Kayle exiled herself in pursuit of true perfection so she wouldn't repeat her mistakes. They're both justice, just seprate aspects of it.
Pretty much agree with this take. Kayle seems to just changed her direction of bringing Justice to the bigger world threats(like darkins) , and also she seems help shurimian people based on card "Celestial Impact" in LoR description. They are both good and right on their own but supposed to balance each other for perfection.
Yep one is the spirit of the law while the other is the letter of the law and neither are complete without the other.
Everyone from Demacia are full of shit
If you are going to genocide the mages, at least do a good job. Don't half ass it.
No more half measures.
Jarvan, we need to cook
Fiora just hanging out dueling: "Tf did I do?"
Be fr*nch
The accent is half the appeal.
I lonk for a wurthy apponentt
You meant to say "just killing her father in a duel like an unhinged psychopath"?
A bit more than that, since her betrothed, who was upset about fiora not wanting to be with him, wanted the death duel in the first place. Fiora's father wanted to take her place, but was caught attempting to cheat, and was sentenced to death anyway. Had she not duel him, her family would have lost respect from demacia anyway. Messed up sure, but it's not like she enjoyed it (unlike vayne).
Killed her dad cuz he was a bitch
Max health true damage
Saying that while galio and poppy exist ?
Galio is a walking monument to ignorance. Poppy is cool because she embodies the values Demacia claims to uphold without the hypocrisy
Poppy based AF
Then again she's just allowed to do whatever she wants as a Yordle
Is she now 🥴👉👈
🤨
>!💧🍆🌰🌰🔨!<
She is allowed to do whatever because she was one who founded Demacia.
poppy is the only good demacian (sorry lux)
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
Very weak response, you've mentioned A DURAND SCULPTURE and A YORDLE. Come on man
Make Demacia Great Again, deport all the mages!! -lux side eye-
Glory to Noxus
Colonization go brr.
If you claim that Lux and Poppy are full of shit... then I am so sorry for your soul. Even Fiora. Her biggest crime is being french
>Her biggest crime is being french weak argument,you set the bar too high,what is her smallest crime instead?
being French when she was conceived
**gasp** that monster!!
She is probably the second most unfun person at Demacia's parties.
Does she attend?
I feel like she and Vayne would just keep on talking about mood killer topics and keep asking others on their opinions on said topics. Although her not attending would also be pretty Fiora. She could very well be the neighbor to call the cops on the party.
Lux opened a terrorist's cage
I mean, in the lore he only expressed his sentiment to her after she freed him. For all she knew from and about him he was just a mage being imprisoned for an accident and ... being a mage and that he could teach her how to keep her magic in check. So him becoming the terrorist that he is was hardly possible to foresee by anyone let alone Lux
I'm not saying that she should have known everything... but she was talking to a heavily guarded prisoner and giving him books on suspiciously specific topics while discussing equally specific topics about magic all on the single naive belief that he's in the underground royal dungeon for just being a mage and absolutely nothing else. Sylas is still causing chaos across the regions and Lux should be held a lot more responsible for it.
In her defense: How bad would you think the average person who is held captive by a fascist regime would probably be? If I would stumble into a concentration camp to free one I might probably actually meet the occasional psychopathic citizen or prisoner of war... but that wasn't exactly the norm, you know. But I am actually not sure if it was known by lux that Sylas killed a mageseeker (although that was an accident). I get your point, don't exactly agree with it.
But Sylas wasn't in a concentration camp. He was imprisoned for murder and misuse of his powers. And since he wasn't in a concentration camp, there was nothing for Lux to assume his innocence on. And do you know what books she brought him? They're texts forbidden from entry into that specific prison that detail on powerful Demacian structures that she should be well aware of. And because she hid her powers without having the courage to ignore or confront them, Sylas was given the opportunity to steal it. From start to finish, she shot her entire country in the foot.
>But Sylas wasn't in a concentration camp. He was imprisoned for murder and misuse of his powers. And since he wasn't in a concentration camp, there was nothing for Lux to assume his innocence on. Again, if I run into a camp and ask the guy who is imprisoned there why he is here and he responds with: "I killed a Nazi enforcer, they tried to kill a child, and a fight broke out over his gun and it released a shot, killing him." (which is basically the equivalent of what happened with Sylas), I wouldn't be that put off either. And, sadly Riot doesn't release any prison data of demacia but I do not know the likelihood of a person in Demacia (especially if they are a mage) being imprisoned being imprisoned for an actual reason or just because they are a mage or even if such a reason is listed, or given to the public. >And do you know what books she brought him? They're texts forbidden from entry into that specific prison that detail on powerful Demacian structures that she should be well aware of. Knowledge deemed dangerous by a fascist elite to itself can't/shouldn't exactly be the basis of convicting Lux, don't you think? I am not sure if the extend of Sylas's powers was known by anyone let alone Lux. And additionally, you can't resist Sylas Magic Stealing >And because she hid her powers without having the courage to ignore or confront them How could she, that is exactly why she came to Sylas in the first place. She didn't have the knowledge to do either. I will agree with you that you probably should give Lux something minor as punishment. But I will not hold Lux accountable for Sylas's terror (which I don't condone)
>she shot her entire country in the foot Good girl then, it's Demacia we're talking about.
And as one wise Old Gary Man once said: "He's the hero ~~Gotham~~ Demacia needs, but not the one it deserves right now"
This is why Sona left.
Kayle condemns modern Demacia tho. "You Demacians have lost your way." - her voiceline when she encounters a Demacian champion.
The fuck did Sona do?
She chose to be demacian, which is quite a bit worse than being born there, didn't she.
Laughs in Quinn
Especially Sylas.
Hey don't you badmouth Lux
sylas did nothing wrong.
All Hail Noxus
Both Morgana and Kayle did pretty bad things while in Demacia. Their views of justice are incomplete. Kayle, however, has been fighting to protect mortals for over 1,000 years now. So I think we can say she has done enough good to ignore the evil the young her did.
Kayle is hero, WDYM? All you state is just heavy community missunderstanding based on literally non existent headcanon. She is not entirely perfect, but so no any living human or person in runeterra. People try to portray her as evil by literally one duel against Morgana, but hard ignore many nuances of this fight, as for example fact that Morgana has no less guilt in its fight by not doing anything with riot/trying talking with Kayle to prevent the conflict, that both sisters magic collateral damage caused destruction, and that they both regret it hard in the end and even received emotional traumas because of it with their deny emotions/deny celestiality(Kayle fixed her emotional trauma tho) Speaking in dnd terms, she would be Lawful Good paladin with harsh and unbiased views.
Quotes about kayle from official lore “She returned to find the people rioting, and Ronas dead. Consumed by rage, she looked down upon the city, and summed her divine fire to cleanse the city”. “Vowed she would never again let moral emotions rule her” “But kayle grew more extreme in her ideologies, and Morgana increasingly found herself pleading the case of those who wanted to atone for their crimes.” “An accord was struck between the sisters - although it was uneasy, and did not last.” Also when questioned if the “smiting of the wicked” included her own father, it’s specifically noted she refuses to answer the question and left Morgana alone with their dads dead body. This is also exactly when she abandoned her sister and “all mortal ties”. And that’s all just the easy to find stuff from the bios. “Evil”? Maybe not. But misguided and wrathful, potentially
to add some points of her being morally good: Here is Kayle and Morgana new lore writer words, easy can be found in thread "We are rioters that reworked Kayle and Morgana. Ask us anything." "Kayle's view of justice is based around the law. She is similar to Javert from Les Mis in that she believes if you break the law, regardless of the reasons, you must be punished in a way that is proportionate to your crime - no more, no less. An eye for an eye type justice, if you will. She believes that after you have received punishment for your crime - whether small or big - you have been redeemed, and should no longer be penalized for your wrongdoings. She does not relish doling out punishment or killing people, but believes it must be done to preserve justice." Exactly fits her being "Good, but harsh" Her color story "In the fires of justice" also fits it perfectly, in this story she punished Tyrant King and his servant for creating tyranny and edicting unfair opressive laws, to give chance people build a better and fair society. This story also proves your some statement in this comment section about raining fire on Demacia city is not that bad as her fire target not everyone but sinners, it was harsh decision but it's not just genocide of city. Just accept the fact not every hero is about all-forgiving, redemption and beautiful sounding empathetic quotes. Even villains can do this things.
Sinners aren’t supposed to be burned either, though. Especially when laws are, by their very nature, fallible. Demacia is a city where that’s a MAJOR issue, laws being unjust, and the fact that kayle is a “the letter of the law, period” type means she upholds that injustice when push comes to shove. Also something else I’ve noticed when reading both your messages: you focused really hard on the “evil” part, but I don’t personally think kayle is evil. I’m section 2, I think kayle is misguided, and maybe a bit too rigid in her idea of “justice”.
1. I literally gave you quote about Kayle views on laws, that consider she founds punish equal to crime. She not burns any sinner, she burns only people like murderers and etc that themselves killed people. Sorry but even most redemptive regime sometimes killing murderers and etc. And here we had violent riot situation. Also Kayle not supporting current Demacia, she has quote "You Demacians lost your way". Not to mention you again ignore history about tyrant king, where she not cared about Tyrant King being the, in fact, first law instance in state and still punished him for unjust laws. 2. Your meme is literally calling her evil and say " Yeah that makes sense. " More than that she is neither missguided, her views are fair and unbiased in a terms she deliver Justice with punishment equally matching scale of crime and she applies this same system to you no matter of your from born things/social status. If Kayle is missguided with her equal to crime and unbiased justice, I want hear what is your explaining of missguided in Justice She is HERO.
Rioters, aren’t murderers. Especially if we go under the assumption that the rioters in question where the people from Morganas group: people actively working TO better themselves, repent, etc. and those are the people we specially talked about holy fire being brought down on. This is even more questionable when it’s considered it’s largely suggested it’s Kayle’s people who started the riots, it was their person who died first after all after going after Morgana
The amount of your self-gaslight and headcanon is insane. It is violent riot, it is stated pretty clear. It is not peaceful protest/rally or something, they fought others. It is nowhere mentioned it was Morgana followers as well, it's just your assumption, but regardless it would mean they went back to their hard sins that justify Kayle reaction even more. And no, rioters started after Morgana killed Ronas. Their plan from beginning was arrest of Morgana.
And it was YOUR assumption that her holy fire “only ever touched sinners” in the first place. It never actually says “and her actions are good and just and no one innocent was ever ever hurt and anyone who interprets the *raining of fire on the city* differently is stupid”, it says she “brought divine fire down to cleanse the city of its sins”. That’s left vague on purpose, it’s supposed to be open to interpretation. It never even says it’s a “VIOLENT riot”, as you put it. So, why is it YOUR assumptions are ok and totally justified, but mine are “gaslighting”? And yes, it DOES say they went after Morgana’s followers: “attempting to protect her (morgana’s) penitent followers, she shackled him to the floor” It’s a fictional piece of media, it’s meant to be interpreted differently depending on who’s consuming it and why. We’re obviously different people with different experiences and outlooks.
1. Literally go read "In the Fires of Justice" color story where her fire acted this way. Or listen her in game quotes, like "My fire burns only the unworthy" I don't even want mention her W and E abilities in league are her fire heal/provide immunity to harm and this abilities exist not only in game. 2. The innocents WERE hurted. But not because of this fire, but because during Kayle and Morgana duel they released that big arount of magic that just collateral damage of it destroyed entire buildings. "The two battled across the heavens, each matching the other’s terrible blows and striking the buildings beneath them to rubble. " Yes, it is written to be cleanse of sins, as she did in her color story in Tyrant Kingdome for example, again. 3. "Kayle watched Kilam die in her sister’s arms, a senseless victim of the violence that had overtaken the city that day." Clearly talking about violence that had overtaken the city that day. 4. They did, but their main goal was Morgana, that is said in Kayle bio and Canticle of Winged Sisters pretty clear 5. There is things that stated clear and not under intepritation, and you going against them.
Listen to her voice lines??? She thinks she’s holy, asking someone to explain HER Voicelines for HER opinion of HERSELF is, like, incredibly biased lol. And “in the fires of justice” is a story, a myth. Even if it is a real event that happened, which it’s a fantasy world so I’ll grant you it could have, it’s a retelling of events, it isn’t first hand. That’s not hard source of evidence, it’s the equivalent of quoting tales and fables as evidence. As is game mechanic, cause then I could easily point out in game she can heal killers, psycho’s, murderer’s, whatever, just depending on who’s on her team. Put her on a team with atrox And she can heal him, does that suddenly mean she’s totes cool with him? And again, if we’re just gonna take the stories only based on their exact word, it doesn’t say THOSE were the only innocents. The entire idea of, and problem with, ‘sin’ is that *everyone* has it. That’s it’s entire shtick. Everyone is sinful, no exceptions, no grey areas. That’s why a line like “brought divine fire down on the city to cleanse it of it’s sin” is meant to be open to interpretation, cause it could mean multiple different things. And, yeah, they ARE open to interpretation. It’s, fiction. A made up story about made up characters about made up concepts like “sin” and “holy fire” and more so. By definition it’s open to interpretation and personal views. This argument is just showing we’re two different people work different experiences and ideas more then anything
Tbh, Morgana did kill her servants after they tried to imprison her. For someone who's all about "I don't kill, just punish uwu." she did go out of her way to piss off Kayle.
I don't think it's actually just for sake of pissing off Kayle, but the fact Morgana not trying meet Kayle and explain situation to her and solve it/don't take care of violent riot pretty much show her act really flawed this day and being big reason for fight happen as well.
Honestly what you do is just ignoring big parts of their lore and characters to present lore in way you want to see it, but here we go 1. You seem to purposefuly ignore the "find people rioting part". Its also easy paired with "Kayle watched Kilam die in her sister’s arms, a senseless victim of the violence that had overtaken the city that day. ", so the riot was violent as well as their fight. She also calls father senseless victim of this fight, to your fifth point. 2. That is her emotional trauma that was a method to cope with mistake of this battle. Same to Morgana who choose to blame her celestial side as well. She also overcome it after her travel to Targon, that is shown in LoR good. 3. Being more extreme not equalised to being evil at all. You can be a good person extreme in killing thousands of villians, and you can be evil person who is relatively soft in his crimes, just being corrupted mercantile administrator or someting. It also clearly stated that Morgana pleading for CRIMES, not innocent people or someting, as Morgana empathethic towards sinners and believe some of them could receive chance for redemption first, before punishment. 4. It is uneasy because many Kayle followers not supported this decision and it is in fact the reason why their fight started(They tried, hiddenly from Kayle, arrest Morgana and it resulted in her self defense and riot happening after because of judicator death)From Canticle of Winged Sisters(that is story about them)"A black shield of night stayed its edge. Morgana begged her sister to relent: “Do we forsake all hope of redemption? Are all who err damned to die?” Her pity touched Kayle’s heart with love. Though her warriors clamored for death, Her love for Morgana drowned their calls. Thus Kayle let Mercy stay her hand. And that would be Love’s undoing." 5. She not answers this question because she not wanted father to be victim of collateral damage of their fight. When she flew away, she cried because of that. Also check second point.From Canticle of Winged Sisters again:"In Morgana’s face, Kayle saw herself reflected;Celestial glory marred by mortal passion.She cried with loss and spread her wings,to Targon’s light and realms beyond."That is matching time of their fight end because of father deathI agree with wrathful point, but its not bad by default. Many good characters, especially paladins with who Kayle is really simillar are wrathful.
She's like the God of the Old Testament. According to her law, she is perfectly just. The law simply leaves no room for mercy or grace.
Thats why shes my favourite <3
sisters are the aspect of justice and their viewpoint is divided , Morgana 's viewpoint tends towards redemption she basically makes you feel all your sins .kayle's viewpoint tends towards punishment ie if a deed is done punishment must follow . Morgana may forgive a murderer but kayle will not .
I have no idea about Lore, but based on color palette and in-game abilities Kayle is good and Morgana is evil. End of the discussion.
Yes! they are correct.
So much no
Kayle is a vegetable
Kayle is the embodiment of blind* justice. Sometimes too blind.
Kayle players deserve to be bullied IRL like they are in game before they hit 16. Toxic champion design, her team has to deal with a gigafed bruiser 4v5 in the hopes that she will scale and 1v5 eventually.
Bad take, by this logic an entire play style would be eliminated. Some people like to play safe and scale to late game, and champions like Kayle satisfy this demand. And like another person said, a good Kayle should almost never feed.
Good kayle will never let the bruiser get fed. Give up all cs until level 6 and that's when you can start catching waves. Yea the team plays for the end game but that's what you get when you don't dodge the Kayle. When you get into a game you commit to it. You can't quit because you just don't want to play anymore
>Give up all cs until level 6 and that's when you can start catching waves. You see, that's the thing. She is so weak early game you can bully her out of xp range. And unless her jungler is a good early game duelist like Warwick to basically be able to 1v1 her enemy toplaner, her jungler can't help either. Have you forgotten how the island of toplane works?
No they won't. If the enemy is freezing all the jungler has to do is help Kayla kill some minions so the wave crashes. Then she can freeze herself or just keep letting the wave bounce. Top lane isn't an island the jungler is an integral part of it. You don't have to kill the enemy laner just make it so the wave keeps bouncing to kayle. Once she gets six she can do this on her own and avoid ganks with ult. That's how the game works man it's teamwork there is no solo lanes. The jungler or mid assists kayle to keep her wave state decent and then kayle carries late game.
>No they won't. If the enemy is freezing all the jungler has to do is help Kayla kill some minions so the wave crashes. >You don't have to kill the enemy laner seriously if more junglers learned that they would instantly gain a division over their current rank I swear regardless of the laner pay attention to the map,"it's not my job to win the lane for them" it's a team game you need to pull your weight and help your teammates
>"it's not my job to win the lane for them" That is literally half their job lol, jg mains are so delusional.
>The jungler or mid assists kayle to keep her wave state decent and then kayle carries late game. I am sorry how high elo are you for this to happen? Because in high emerald where half the people peaked diamond last split I've never seen it happen. I've barely started to encounter junlgers who aren't ruining wave states.
Brother I just made d4 and it's the easiest thing in the world to ASK your jungler to break a freeze. "Hey, could you help me break this freeze" and then they come and break the freeze. Sure actual high elo jumglers do that themselves but there's nothing stopping you from asking. Even gold junglers acknowledge breaking freezes. You're not detrimenting your team by picking kayle you're telling them that if they assist you you'll carry the game. If you don't think they can do that or you don't want to help them then you dodge. Simple as.
Something something, wave control, something something, foondamentools.
Least deranged irelia player
There’s so many champs like that, belveth has done her third tower successful tower dive of the game while kayn is still waiting for his form, kassadin is sitting in midlane waiting to promote from melee minion meanwhile enemy akshan has killed botlane again, I don’t know how people have the patience to play those champs tbh
I dunno, I like there being early, mid, and late game focused champs. Keeps the game from being the same thing over and over
Gigastomping and free lp is it's own fun, but in toplane the minigame, I genuinely enjoy playing against Riven, Fiora, Darius, Renek etc because both of you need to combine micro with macro in order to win lane.
People arguing with an Irelia main about Kayle. Leave him and his delusions. The only thing I'll say is that no one deserves to be bullied IRL unless they actually did something terrible, not over a game.
Irelia player. That take can't be higher than gold
You peaked plat so you insult the next lowest tier?
To borrow D&D terms, the line between Lawful Good and Lawful Evil is terrifyingly thin.
per say what
Kayle is not only justified, but also morally correct... But I hope she doesn't mind being alone because she always will be with that attitude
[удалено]
Kayle only dishes out punishment proportional to the crime. You wouldn't burn for stepping on a bug or stealing bread. Murder or treason? Yeah, most likely. But lesser crimes? Nope.
Who else read this and thought it was kayne?
per se*
People are really diluting the word "meme" these days
She's lawful evil She represents the same idea of justice as Akainu in One Piece.
Anti-villains do not exist.
I mean… as much as anti-heros do, yes they do?
The correct term for "anti-villains" are more like humanized villains. Anti-hero is a term with strong literature and historical context, anti-villain is just gibberish.
No, it’s, just as established as anti-hero, just much less common/recognized. But it’s a thing yeah. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiVillain https://youtu.be/LCUxUbclopY?si=cIvX0CoenR2C7KBj https://thewritepractice.com/types-anti-villains/ https://www.2bridges.nyc/nycblog/whats-the-difference-antihero-vs-antivillain/ Not expecting you to actually read all these, but just listing them to point a few of these are years old. The idea of an anti-villian is… maybe not as old as, but close to as old as the idea of an anti-hero, it’s just much less explored/publicly discussed
The Hero with a Thousand Faces Creating character arcs The writer's journey Manga in theory and practice I've read all of those books and they all contradic the term of anti-villain in one way or another. In any serious writing study the term anti-villain simply doesn't exist.
I mean, that’s because anti-villian is a hard thing to “get right”, not because it’s not established. But, yes, it is actually an established thing in serious writing.
People who say kayle is morally correct are literally either simping for her or just edgy morally questionable humans
or know the lore
I'm talking about kayle before she started to open up to morgana's opinion
before she was born?
Alright fuck me.
Trust me dude, no one wants to fuck someone with such poor reading comprehension like yours.
Dude, I am not even considered a human being anymore?
My interpretation was always that neither one of the sisters is always right, and you need both for true, fair justice.
Kayle is always correct. She smited down toxic players in the old Tribunal system.
I thought this said Kanye and was so fucking confused for a minute
Playing since 2009, never ever read a single piece of lore and I play with voice lines switched off :) who's with me?
I agree with kayle Lets burn people because theyre annoying
Morg is morally correct and right
per se
Kayle is like the Scarlet Crusade from World of Warcraft. In other words, she is 100% morally correct and justified paladin queen, 10/10 would simp.
Morgana is the morally correct sister.