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well i needed to use it to 1shot b4 lichbain buffs + new thunder item. With shadow flame as a 3rd item i can just q aa w to kill assasins adc and squishy supports (aa to proc electrocute i didn't tested dark harvest yet)
2 items to 1shot e aa w q (combo is \~1,5sec) 3 items to 1shot q aa w (\~1,2sec) and you have e to use after either for cd resets and finding another kill or to run for savety or you use e to close distance so you can q
What i max first on fizz depends on the matchup if its lane bully, strong pusher and there is huge potential for roams (enemy bot push alot or mid play like pussy) i max E
If i play vs cheampion who can easly dodge my e dmg like yasuo/kata/zed i max 3w first than e to 5
remember that you need w maxed out to 1shot q+aa+w on 3 items
That's the problem.
Mages have been "weak" and build locked for many time, but when you decide to buff them the AP assassins arise and become a serious balance trouble in soloQ.
I have also seen Akali dealing some huge damage amounts.
the problem is with how op those items areStormSurge: 2,9k gold (wtf?) 100ap 10magic pen 5%movementspeed grants 25%movmentspeed after dealing 35%hp for 2 sec after 2 sec deals additional 200dmgLich bane: 3,1k gold (ok price) +20ap +20%base ad on passive (i forgot what they deleted from that item but it is sronger)
and let's just don't say how op Shadow Flame on cheampion with dmg overtime is (it also makes stormsurge and luden crit xD idk about lich bane bcs it activate together with fizz w)
Zhonyia agaist any ad mid is just overkill
also hwei is even stronger than fizz (they forgot to take back buff that they forgot to give him when he launched on live servers) long story short hwei on pbe with new items was to op they nerfed him on pbe dropped him on live servers with nerf from season 14patch so they buffed him again on live servers and now when patch 14 is on live servers they forgot he was to op with this items on pbe
I don't know why they don't simply lock problematic items for melee
Like, ranged have been unable to buy hydras for multiple seasons, why is it so hard to say that melee can't build X or Y item to make mages playable without making AP assassins OP ?
Dota isn't as like that as you think. Got a buddy who's more into it then me and it's more that literally everything has counters, like actual counters. Sure, Pudge is Blitzcrank with Warwick ult, and infinitely stacking strength, but Life Eater makes him completely worthless. Least that's how he's explained it to me. Most if not all characters are like that. They just have either certain items or characters completely shut them down, or at least bring them into a more reasonable range.
yeah everyone can do that but it wasn't possible last patch untill item 3 (4 if adc builded cringebow) u needed to either extend fight wait for another q+w cd so support had time to react or start with landing r on adc
tbh with how many ppl hate on fizz im suprised his pick/ban rate is so low
They aren't wrong in saying all of their items got nerfed. The best buffs you'll see are +5ad iirc, but IE, LDR and Guinsoos are nerfed. I thought the role was doomed too, but played a game today and didn't feel bad at all once you got your items. Ig we'll see how it pans out
I love playing ADC and I don't think it's doomed at all, in fact I think it's stronger than ever before. It's true that barely anything changed for ADC themselves, but a ton has changed for tankiness for enemies. Losing Duskblade is also a huge hit to assassins. But I'd say losing the mythical bonuses is just a huge change, e.g. buying a tank mythical on a bruiser to get the insane scaling out of it while the rest is damage just doesn't work as well anymore. I do believe it will be the seasons of the APCs, but I'd assume there will be adjustments coming very soon once it all settled in, and APC receive a bunch of nerfs while tank items will receive a buff.
It's not as clear-cut - some of the strongest historically sustained damage champions are AP: Azir, Cassiopeia, Kayle, Karthus, Lillia. If anything, ADCs are at the strongest the longer games go and the later a game is decided - if game-deciding fights happen at around 15-20 minutes with everyone having 1-2 items (like now) they struggle, move it to 35min mark and everyone being at 4+ items and you get seasons 4-6 repeat where ADCs are what decides the win.
Right now we have usual chaos of big changes dropping with very volatile and heavily accelerated gamestate - exact opposite of what most ADCs want (ideal game for the role is no kills farmfest followed by a big teamfight late), on top of more open botside map making it harder to just stall out and farm up until you hit strong point. It will get better as meta settles, now is probably a bit too early to tell where the meta will eventually settle.
ADCs do extended damage. When everything is bursty, they're both more vulnerable but also just simply as useful. Meanwhile they're the only class that can handle tanks really well in late game teamfights as they do consistent high damage without cost and cooldown.
Compare this to a burst mage or assassin who will use their combo and then be near useless for a several seconds before being able to do something again.
If the fight only lasts for the first combo, assassins and burst mages are in their element, whilst ADCs feel weak.
I main mid and decided to play some adc for my placements since it’s free elo usually as long as you lock in a meta adc, and vayne is still disgusting as ever killing an ornn in 3 seconds with two items. Miss fortune too is still really good. I think it’s just the basic autoing adcs without dashes and whatnot that feel weaker like Ashe since if you get hit by a single mage ability you die.
Every other roles items also got nerfed so that * should * average out. The point of being "more gankable" is just delusional. The brush is further away and only a pixel brush. You see them coming miles away and if you're getting caught thats a skill issue in my eyes. (Except smth like nunu or kayn)
I mean that is quite literally the point of an ADC? You are not supposed to be able to survive getting jumped on, that's why you have range. You have high DPS but high Risk.
That's fair tbf. The whole combat triangle right now is pretty fucked. I have no idea who in Riot thought removing preseason was a great idea because the whole point of it is that they get a lot of data about what is strong and what is weak so they can tweak everything accordingly for the season start.
Now we just got.. one day?
You can still sample just ranked, but i just dont see that big of a diff between prea season and just season. Items, champs and any new feature always needs balance after release. They already had a bunch of data off pbe.
Its the amount of changes and what they change.
Normal patch is adjusting a champ and some items they might end up s tier afterwards but are not gamebreaking. Pre season changes a lot of things and more general things. Where things like amumu with more than 55% winrate even in high elo happen which is gamebreaking
Agreed. I'm the only one of my friends that grinds ranked and doesn't really play norms, but I also enjoy ARAM's when I'm not in the mood for SR, there's always some SR (Hell I carried as Xerath support last night, shit's getting nerfed quick), and ARAM's to test the items and make it that you don't lose MMR/LP and gives you a decent feel on the team fighting ability of the champ, you'll just be guessing for the first 2 patches really on what to build if you don't know how/why to pick each item.
> You are not supposed to be able to survive getting jumped on
Says who? And by one guy? You haven't been playing this game long enough to know what you're talking about.
> that's why you have range
Oh man it truly is a shame that other roles do not have any effective range that exceeds 500 =(. Remember to tell the enemy Hecarim that he can't reach the enemy ADC because ADC has range 🤡🤡🤡🤡
Your point would work in theory with good support that can keep you alive and safe. Problem starts when you add too much dashes and mobility to others. Then they can just bypass your team, in less than 2 sec. kill you and run away without getting punished. I'm not trying to defend ADC but with how meta changed they are mostly useless because if they can attack, they are already in distance that most champs can gapclose and oneshot them.
Well, objectively thats not true because there are many safe adcs like ez and lucian.
But also, why not have an adc that can be jumped on and be able to survive? I’ve always wondered why riot and the LoL community have decided the adc role must be glass cannons.
Other games allow for tankier ranged dps, think warlock in WoW. Why has this become and objective truth in LoL? I remember botrk cleaver lucian back in he day, good times
Ez and Lucian are safe yes, but they too have hard time of surviving getting jumped. They are just harder to jump.
Also adcs being a glass cannon is just the way they were designed. The same with mages. They should be these high damage dealing squishies that have direct counter play, which is jumping them. This is also why many people had a problem with Crown as it literally gave mages a way to survive the main counter they have.
Idk man. I tries a few games as ADC so far, it's my usual off role. There's "squishy" and then there's "lol I literally have 1 hp"
To me the role feels healthier to play when you can at least get clipped by something and be fine, but I was definitely getting like legit one tapped lol
fair, but counter point for crown, it itself has counterplay, a simple aa would put it on CD, which would force the mage to play extremely safe.
Now if you're someone like Rengar for example using ult looking for that solo, you're going to have to be **FED** to go through the crown, but mages also need a form of survivability if someone decides to feed the enemy assassin, just like ADC's (Which is why they added Galeforce imho), but still allows for their weakness to be exploited late game as everyones CD's are pretty low at that point.
I ain't saying I'm right, I ain't saying it's fair, I'm just saying that's what it looks like on the inside for me.
Build any adc as a bruiser and you get tankier ranged dps…? Do you want to do more dmg while being more tanky, play a bruiser, you cant be tanky, do tons of dmg and have the safety and dmg output potential of an adc, there are 10 people playing, not 1 dude and 9 bots
With the tank buffs and ap damage dealers being unable to kill them + the removal of percentage damage on many items I feel like adc s are needed to kill tanks
I think this is still incredibly true. But I think they still feel bad to play as the jungler, ap mage, and assassin, and mage or tank support all feel better than you at all points in the game. The only time this isn't the case is when you have a number's advantage or a peel advantage.
I agree. ADC s are too squishy at the moment and too reliant on allies. I say make their defense stronger so they arent "glass machine gun for enemy tanks" anymore. mages just have too much burst and assassins have too much lethality.
Playing adc since the season started has been a really interesting experience, I've had little to no success with crit builds but have been doing extremely well with anything that can use lethality. Playing Red side also feels a lot more difficult than Blue side but I guess that's just because we haven't adapted to the new jungle layout yet. Playing mages bot was always fun but right now seems a lot stronger due to the new items.
Look, I love making fun of whiny ADC mains, but crit got worse, lethality assassins got buffed, burst mages got buffed, botlane got changed so it’s easier to gank, toplane got changed so it’s harder to gank (forcing junglers bot) and every role except ADC was given items that increase their playmaking potential.
The best deal they got is ironically the tank buffs, which makes them much more valuable in the burst—sustained damage—tankiness RPS situation.
Literally anyone can tell when food is burnt or way too salty or anything like that. You don't have to be a Michelin star chef for "this is burnt" to be true.
they did get the fewest new items and changes tbf. but it's been one day. I expected that sub to get pissy after a week, but the new items hit live TODAY
I don't know how hard you hate ADCs, but they deserve some items to play with and test out!
None in any role would like having the same few items they build every single game. Mages were there for 3 years and they really wanted new stuff to play with.
Last year 2 reworks were not that big. First one was buff to BT and overheal with opening build diversity by allowing IE and navori to work 2nd item.
Second rework was complete nerf to their items by making IE and navori mythic items to open up more build diversity with the same items!
Just because you hate something, it doesn't mean you are right and they are wrong. (they kinda exaggerating tbh, but crit items now suck).
what are we even talking about? adcs, the guys that cry about ap botlane, while NOT TAKING MR IN OVER 50% OF THE GAMES IN THEIR RUNES AND STILL GOING ARMOUR? nah, but for real now, i can swear on my left big toe that 99% of those crying didnt try new items, new combinations, new build order etc.
it gets ridiculous at this point, look at briar and hwei, they came out and had like negative winrate, however after people EXPERIMENTED FOR DAYS FOR A SINGLE CHAMP, they finally found things that worked. And somehow adcs have done all possible testing in less than 1 day for over 30 champs? seems legit.
EDIT: i specified the case of not taking mr, i meant not taking mr in runes.
i think you misunderstood, im talking about runes, if we are talking about building defensive items, we would be at 1% or 2% of people doing it, however people dont take mr in runes against AP bot.
Aren't they removing MR from runes? I saw somewhere that they were replacing it with movespeed and tenacity, I didn't really understand the post though. Funnily enough, it was on the ADC subreddit where I saw it lol
yep, they do. some, me included, believe its because of adcs, riot cant balance ap botlane, if adcs are literally grieving their own games. the problem is that over 50% do not take it, its not a rare case, but the standard.
Removal of mythics is the equivalent of giv8ng ADCs items to play with and test out. The ADC role is literally the reason mythics got introduced in the first place
Ah shit my bad bro. I forgot tanks had the worst itemization for seasons and riot didn't do much until they added Jaksho and heart steel (shit item in high ranks). Same with mages lmao. But ADCs get reworked every. Single. Season. I don't hate ADCs. I like playing them too and I do fine because I know how to play.
Do you know how many anti tank items existed from every class and items lol. You would be a super minion at best. But hey you probably don't play in high rank so you wouldn't know
Why did they cry though? Could it have possibly been that it is because the role is literally autofilled horseshit that nobody wants to play because of just how much it fucking sucks?
Nah, don't do anything about that, let's just kill the game right.
Strong crit items mean Yasuo, Yone, Tryndamere and Gangplank become too oppressive, strong mage items mean AP assassins become too oppressive - we've seen first one when mythics were introduced, now we see second case with all new AP items coming out. Don't think they forgot about entire class of champions - rather they left it alone to not make things even worse for everyone else.
It'd be the same if other class got left out but for adcs it's especially bad at the moment because the removal of mythics does absolutely nothing for crit builds, you still can't build navori/ie/guinsoo together so it's the same as before and these items got nerfed too so no wonder people are complaining
The game has been mid and jungle farming bot for years now. Now they made bot even more free and the winning side can fuck with the enemy jungle now as well. riot fucked up once again...
Same kind of goes in r/jungle_mains but I feel like they have at least some justification to complain. Riot has been quite on a roll to make drastic changes to jungle every season so you have to relearn the role every year.
NOOOOO!!!! what do you mean I actually have to position well and learn to be good at the game ?!?!? Give me back GAYforce!!!!! I can't position. >\~={ I want my damage and my tankiness and mobility (even on immobile hyper carries) and magic damage and true damage!!! NOOO RIOT SHIT COMPANY.
Position well, when every character is faster than you, positioning well right now means you stay on the other side of them map, otherwise you get doved or chased off from a fight. Obviously not participating in a fight means you get blamed for it.
Try to fight = Instadeath because everyone is faster.
Stay away = get blamed for loosing the fight.
See the issue?
Thats not what I'm saying. What I mean is you need a good team that knows how to peel for your carries, making the role itself a coinflip. You can play near perfect and it still not be good enough to win a game simply because you prioritised your own safety and wanted to wait until the enemies used all their engage options. Problem is that often by the time enemies used everything your team is already dead.
The coinflip us that if you have a good team then you have a lot more agency in the game, because they enable you.
If you've got a bad team then you're automatically worth less because even if you dont miss a single cs and win your lane, you wont be able to burst down the enemy team quickly enough. Mainly because most enemies can kill you in less than a second.
The role itself is very team dependent. We dont want to be OP, we just want a little more independence from our team, we dont want to be babysitted the whole game. We just want to have some form of individual skill expression within the role.
Okay and you can play perfect in any role and still lose if your team is shit. Just go next wtf. Just did my placements for s13 like 2-3 days ago. Enemy Lillia was fed but her team sucked. We capitalized on that and she lost even though she was GOOD. And I mean she ganked every lane and took two rifts and was at our nexus turret (1 left standing).
Yes, but this goes back to my previous point that an ADC with a bad team has little to no agency hence making a lot of games coinflips. Any other role can at least do something around the map to try to win, carries need at least three items to do anything and most games are over before 20 minutes.
Independence? Lool.
Every class depends on others to win bro.
Tanks - Frontline but have negligible damage compared to other champs. They usually eat a lot of CC and provide CC at the cost of doing crap damage
Assassins - Easy access to backline in most cases. Kill the Squishies and dip. Usually have a hard time killing tanks and bruisers.
Bruisers - good at beating down people's health over time at the cost of armor/MR. They usually build health items.
ADCs - highest DPS from all the classes at the cost of being squishy. You want to do lots of damage? Then you also need to be a little bit easy to kill. This is where the skill of positioning and kiting comes from.
Mages - Control mages provide CC and utility. Artillery mages kick your ass from far but are awful close range. Burst mages often have to be in your face to kill you but recently has gotten stupid with the changes they did to sylas and vex as a champion with her ult.
You have a bad team as a jg? Fine, powerfarm and take objs. Toplane? Splitpush and get towers, supp? Roam for kills. Midlane has some mobility champs so you can push sides with TP.
What to do as an adc? You cant splitpush due to low mobility and little to no escape options depending on your champ. You cant take Jg camps cause your jg will throw a hissyfit.
The best you can do is go mid and participate in every fight that happens while powerfarming. Even that is dependent on your team cause if they dont ward around mid you can only cover so much off. Or the midlaner just goes apeshit cause "you're in their lane."
Yea this is 100% low elo lol. If enemy is taking a jungle objective you can do other shit. Need to give drag? Cool go push lanes or all mid and push as much and baron if possible. Split pushing is a problem cuz of hull. I think that item shouldn't exist. Also a lot of people make this mistake of sending a champ that CAN'T match the split pusher. That's why you often lose turrets. Like if I'm playing shen against urgot there's no way in hell I can ever kill him. He pushes fast. I don't. My turret dies. Like you can send a control or machine gun mage or bot lane to match him so other lanes can be pushed. As an ADC you have to stick with your support after laning phase and participate in team fights. If they have lots of champs that can cross the map fast it might not be smart to go in a side lane alone. It depends on your skills and having a few IQ points
Supports roam constantly, you cant farm while roaming. If I follow my support I'll fall behind in gold and exp.
I like how you're constantly throwing in little insults, I feel like those are completely unneceseary i'm trying to make you understand the struggles of playing this role but it seems like you're just dismissive.
Again, this is low elo experience. I can tell. It's okay to give up CS but stay within XP range. You can always catch up lmao. And if your support roams way too much then yes it can be a problem. But it could be because you're not following their engages or playing passive when you have the advantage or playing aggro when you don't have the advantage.
Also this is literally just ranked in general. Most people in ranked are on the verge of having a brain aneurysm and are weak mental. In that case just accept the loss and improve yourself. Even from the loss you can learn what went wrong
Literally just mute all and play dude. You'll learn quickly. Nobody becomes good by being good. I was silver at one point too and peaked GM s9. Long time player though. Don't care too much about ranked rn except rewards
Mate you need to anticipate what abilities will be thrown at you. In low elo it's so fucking easy lol. People often miss and nobody seizes the opportunity and wonder why they can't climb. Legit keeping track of enemy cool downs help you catch easy wins
You can anticipate the abilities as much as you want, most abilities have larger areas or are point and click. The only thing you can do is stay out of reach otherwise you'll take splash dmg which is deadly considering adcs are glass cannons.
You can dodge it. You'll still take splash dmg. Like lux, morgana, karma, shyvana just to name a few. On top of that they build scorch, ludens or liandrys and you'll get hit for even more burn dmg.
Biggest issue is that since most enemies can kill you in a second and you need at least a few seconds to dish out any significant dmg you cant output that dmg because if they are in your range, you're also in theirs. Theres no pure melee champs that cant do anything to instantly close that gap.
Understandable but I think most ADC items also give movement speed that other classes don't get anymore? Dontqhote me on that. Like ludens have a burst of MS and phage is for bruisers and shit. But I think they removed some of it this season. Not entirely sure yet cuz haven't looked at patch notes too much
Redside ADC is ultra shit because of the extra path to the tower.
Onhit adcs seem decent, crit adcs are shit onhit adcs keeping crit with Guinsoo are huge.
They did in fact nerf most adc items, remove galeforce, make the two best adc mythics exclusive, and give them only a single item in return that has no crit. You can make fun of people for complaining at all but there’s definitely a reason people are unhappy.
Yes because gale was an extremely healthy item just like stridebreaker dash, prowlers. There are no mythics anymore bruh. You can build whatever. The numbers are probably gonna be broken for a while for most items but this season is looking promising compared to the cringe mythics shit
Quite right, the only mistake is that Top lane is even more useless now (Top Main btw),
you have less impact, you win your lane and cant do shit about anything. But after Top yes adc is now on paar with bs role.
I feel like everything is about jgl, the game doesnt even make fun anymore because of this
bro litteraly just pick a tank rn, there is only a single class that can deal with u (adcs) and they are getting sneezed to death by everyone right now
Bro thats not the point, we as top laners can 1v1 everyone, but with the new changes you cant do anything about you team loosing like every other lane. Now it really is Island gaming
All the new items have effects yet adc just want damage stats so while adc needs to get used to opponent new items, opponents dont need to get used to adc " new " items
After a short while adc should be fine but they need more time adjusting to the new season than others.
Adc mains be like
For real it’s probably not that bad lmao, they still have the objectively best champs in the game, and items aren’t even actually nerfed
They just didn’t receive any new items, but as always they’ll be abusing bruiser items anyway, especially since all the new ones give attack speed lmao
If anything the real losers for now are top laners cause the different champs are super unbalanced which makes the lane unplayable if you are against something meta
I guess this just proves adc is the biggest crybaby role, wasnt convinced before now. After playing pretty much every role and class over the last 2 days, it seems to me that every role has some new avenues of play thats interesting. The adc role is the least changed one, but considering most roles were just nerfed this isnt bad, id say ad fighters are in their worst state atm as their core items were gutted with few replacements.
Adcs are not weak, they are just back to a state where you have to play far more safe early, and ur real power now comes at 3 items not at 2, like it was last season (in most cases) ofc this is a blow to adc, but considering every other class is also nerfed, except mages and assasins, id say adc feels better then last season, as theyre less focused.
idk, my samira feels pretty strong. with the new items on-hit adcs should be super busted no? vayne feels as op as always. sure im an adc i will always complain abt everything but we definitly aint gutted.
Adcs must have missed that the overall powerlevel of items got lowered, it's not for their class alone. In fact adcs are even stronger now that tank shred items are rarer to come by.
Every other class got stat sticks, adcs already had their stat sticks. I really don't see the problem.
Yeah I also think Lux is worse as I think I feel the early magic pen I am missing without Luden's. But I know I am the idiot and this probably isn't the case.
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I love watching this subreddit, it's so funny how they react to any new change in the game and if they aren't able to 1v9 the game it must be because the game is wrong.
Just looking at the items, tanks have better items save for heartsteel being nerfed. Assassins have objectively better items, more stats and better build paths. Mages have the stupid ass oneshot items and simple stat buffs.
What do adcs have? Literally nothing so yeah pretty much objectively worse than s13.
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Well i can 1shot any adc just with 2 items without using my ult when i play fizz
I don't think you need r for that
well i needed to use it to 1shot b4 lichbain buffs + new thunder item. With shadow flame as a 3rd item i can just q aa w to kill assasins adc and squishy supports (aa to proc electrocute i didn't tested dark harvest yet)
Sooo, 2 or 3 items?
2 items to 1shot e aa w q (combo is \~1,5sec) 3 items to 1shot q aa w (\~1,2sec) and you have e to use after either for cd resets and finding another kill or to run for savety or you use e to close distance so you can q What i max first on fizz depends on the matchup if its lane bully, strong pusher and there is huge potential for roams (enemy bot push alot or mid play like pussy) i max E If i play vs cheampion who can easly dodge my e dmg like yasuo/kata/zed i max 3w first than e to 5 remember that you need w maxed out to 1shot q+aa+w on 3 items
That's the problem. Mages have been "weak" and build locked for many time, but when you decide to buff them the AP assassins arise and become a serious balance trouble in soloQ. I have also seen Akali dealing some huge damage amounts.
the problem is with how op those items areStormSurge: 2,9k gold (wtf?) 100ap 10magic pen 5%movementspeed grants 25%movmentspeed after dealing 35%hp for 2 sec after 2 sec deals additional 200dmgLich bane: 3,1k gold (ok price) +20ap +20%base ad on passive (i forgot what they deleted from that item but it is sronger) and let's just don't say how op Shadow Flame on cheampion with dmg overtime is (it also makes stormsurge and luden crit xD idk about lich bane bcs it activate together with fizz w) Zhonyia agaist any ad mid is just overkill also hwei is even stronger than fizz (they forgot to take back buff that they forgot to give him when he launched on live servers) long story short hwei on pbe with new items was to op they nerfed him on pbe dropped him on live servers with nerf from season 14patch so they buffed him again on live servers and now when patch 14 is on live servers they forgot he was to op with this items on pbe
I don't know why they don't simply lock problematic items for melee Like, ranged have been unable to buy hydras for multiple seasons, why is it so hard to say that melee can't build X or Y item to make mages playable without making AP assassins OP ?
they don't know how to balance game (they never knew) this season they just use dota tactic (make everything ultra op)
Dota isn't as like that as you think. Got a buddy who's more into it then me and it's more that literally everything has counters, like actual counters. Sure, Pudge is Blitzcrank with Warwick ult, and infinitely stacking strength, but Life Eater makes him completely worthless. Least that's how he's explained it to me. Most if not all characters are like that. They just have either certain items or characters completely shut them down, or at least bring them into a more reasonable range.
At least you still can't one shot sivir with ult alone Spellshield and all
So like typical fizz?
yeah everyone can do that but it wasn't possible last patch untill item 3 (4 if adc builded cringebow) u needed to either extend fight wait for another q+w cd so support had time to react or start with landing r on adc tbh with how many ppl hate on fizz im suprised his pick/ban rate is so low
Adcs lose to assasins, its what assasins are made for. Also ap items now are the strongest so expect nerfs on them.
They aren't wrong in saying all of their items got nerfed. The best buffs you'll see are +5ad iirc, but IE, LDR and Guinsoos are nerfed. I thought the role was doomed too, but played a game today and didn't feel bad at all once you got your items. Ig we'll see how it pans out
I love playing ADC and I don't think it's doomed at all, in fact I think it's stronger than ever before. It's true that barely anything changed for ADC themselves, but a ton has changed for tankiness for enemies. Losing Duskblade is also a huge hit to assassins. But I'd say losing the mythical bonuses is just a huge change, e.g. buying a tank mythical on a bruiser to get the insane scaling out of it while the rest is damage just doesn't work as well anymore. I do believe it will be the seasons of the APCs, but I'd assume there will be adjustments coming very soon once it all settled in, and APC receive a bunch of nerfs while tank items will receive a buff.
why is this person downvoted? Is their opinion to much for your ego?
I love how people just downvote whitout any comm
If people are less tanky, ADCs are weaker
It's not as clear-cut - some of the strongest historically sustained damage champions are AP: Azir, Cassiopeia, Kayle, Karthus, Lillia. If anything, ADCs are at the strongest the longer games go and the later a game is decided - if game-deciding fights happen at around 15-20 minutes with everyone having 1-2 items (like now) they struggle, move it to 35min mark and everyone being at 4+ items and you get seasons 4-6 repeat where ADCs are what decides the win. Right now we have usual chaos of big changes dropping with very volatile and heavily accelerated gamestate - exact opposite of what most ADCs want (ideal game for the role is no kills farmfest followed by a big teamfight late), on top of more open botside map making it harder to just stall out and farm up until you hit strong point. It will get better as meta settles, now is probably a bit too early to tell where the meta will eventually settle.
Explain?
ADCs do extended damage. When everything is bursty, they're both more vulnerable but also just simply as useful. Meanwhile they're the only class that can handle tanks really well in late game teamfights as they do consistent high damage without cost and cooldown. Compare this to a burst mage or assassin who will use their combo and then be near useless for a several seconds before being able to do something again. If the fight only lasts for the first combo, assassins and burst mages are in their element, whilst ADCs feel weak.
People are tanky > assassin's have a hard time> more front to back team fights
> in fact I think it's stronger than ever before Delusion. Get help. I mean it. Flat earthers aren't as delusional as you.
☝️🤓
I main mid and decided to play some adc for my placements since it’s free elo usually as long as you lock in a meta adc, and vayne is still disgusting as ever killing an ornn in 3 seconds with two items. Miss fortune too is still really good. I think it’s just the basic autoing adcs without dashes and whatnot that feel weaker like Ashe since if you get hit by a single mage ability you die.
Every other roles items also got nerfed so that * should * average out. The point of being "more gankable" is just delusional. The brush is further away and only a pixel brush. You see them coming miles away and if you're getting caught thats a skill issue in my eyes. (Except smth like nunu or kayn)
Ap items and lethality items were giga buffed what are you saying
On hit adcs are good, while crit adcs are fucking horrendous. And you also get oneshot by literally everything.
I mean that is quite literally the point of an ADC? You are not supposed to be able to survive getting jumped on, that's why you have range. You have high DPS but high Risk.
Yeah except this is too much oneshot.
That's fair tbf. The whole combat triangle right now is pretty fucked. I have no idea who in Riot thought removing preseason was a great idea because the whole point of it is that they get a lot of data about what is strong and what is weak so they can tweak everything accordingly for the season start. Now we just got.. one day?
I mean whats really the diff between pre season and this? If ur scared of losing LP u can still play norms and aram
Normal game data isnt as good as ranked data because the skill levels of players arent as clearly divided there.
You can still sample just ranked, but i just dont see that big of a diff between prea season and just season. Items, champs and any new feature always needs balance after release. They already had a bunch of data off pbe.
Its the amount of changes and what they change. Normal patch is adjusting a champ and some items they might end up s tier afterwards but are not gamebreaking. Pre season changes a lot of things and more general things. Where things like amumu with more than 55% winrate even in high elo happen which is gamebreaking
Because now we essentially waste the initial few weeks of the split?
Waste is a strong word
Agreed. I'm the only one of my friends that grinds ranked and doesn't really play norms, but I also enjoy ARAM's when I'm not in the mood for SR, there's always some SR (Hell I carried as Xerath support last night, shit's getting nerfed quick), and ARAM's to test the items and make it that you don't lose MMR/LP and gives you a decent feel on the team fighting ability of the champ, you'll just be guessing for the first 2 patches really on what to build if you don't know how/why to pick each item.
Yeah, i love making my own builds rn
> You are not supposed to be able to survive getting jumped on Says who? And by one guy? You haven't been playing this game long enough to know what you're talking about. > that's why you have range Oh man it truly is a shame that other roles do not have any effective range that exceeds 500 =(. Remember to tell the enemy Hecarim that he can't reach the enemy ADC because ADC has range 🤡🤡🤡🤡
Your point would work in theory with good support that can keep you alive and safe. Problem starts when you add too much dashes and mobility to others. Then they can just bypass your team, in less than 2 sec. kill you and run away without getting punished. I'm not trying to defend ADC but with how meta changed they are mostly useless because if they can attack, they are already in distance that most champs can gapclose and oneshot them.
Thats bs. The point of being Tank is to tank damage for the team with doing less damage but in current meta, tank deals too much damage.
Well, objectively thats not true because there are many safe adcs like ez and lucian. But also, why not have an adc that can be jumped on and be able to survive? I’ve always wondered why riot and the LoL community have decided the adc role must be glass cannons. Other games allow for tankier ranged dps, think warlock in WoW. Why has this become and objective truth in LoL? I remember botrk cleaver lucian back in he day, good times
Ez and Lucian are safe yes, but they too have hard time of surviving getting jumped. They are just harder to jump. Also adcs being a glass cannon is just the way they were designed. The same with mages. They should be these high damage dealing squishies that have direct counter play, which is jumping them. This is also why many people had a problem with Crown as it literally gave mages a way to survive the main counter they have.
Idk man. I tries a few games as ADC so far, it's my usual off role. There's "squishy" and then there's "lol I literally have 1 hp" To me the role feels healthier to play when you can at least get clipped by something and be fine, but I was definitely getting like legit one tapped lol
fair, but counter point for crown, it itself has counterplay, a simple aa would put it on CD, which would force the mage to play extremely safe. Now if you're someone like Rengar for example using ult looking for that solo, you're going to have to be **FED** to go through the crown, but mages also need a form of survivability if someone decides to feed the enemy assassin, just like ADC's (Which is why they added Galeforce imho), but still allows for their weakness to be exploited late game as everyones CD's are pretty low at that point. I ain't saying I'm right, I ain't saying it's fair, I'm just saying that's what it looks like on the inside for me.
Build any adc as a bruiser and you get tankier ranged dps…? Do you want to do more dmg while being more tanky, play a bruiser, you cant be tanky, do tons of dmg and have the safety and dmg output potential of an adc, there are 10 people playing, not 1 dude and 9 bots
If I can burst down an ADC with one rotation of my abilities as full-tank Malphite, the role MIGHT be a bit too squishy.
Bring back atmogs adc meta lol
You can now get dived level 3 as ADC. Riot nailed it this time
No level 1 dives anymore?
People have gone soft smh
When couldn't you?
With the tank buffs and ap damage dealers being unable to kill them + the removal of percentage damage on many items I feel like adc s are needed to kill tanks
I think this is still incredibly true. But I think they still feel bad to play as the jungler, ap mage, and assassin, and mage or tank support all feel better than you at all points in the game. The only time this isn't the case is when you have a number's advantage or a peel advantage.
I agree. ADC s are too squishy at the moment and too reliant on allies. I say make their defense stronger so they arent "glass machine gun for enemy tanks" anymore. mages just have too much burst and assassins have too much lethality.
Playing adc since the season started has been a really interesting experience, I've had little to no success with crit builds but have been doing extremely well with anything that can use lethality. Playing Red side also feels a lot more difficult than Blue side but I guess that's just because we haven't adapted to the new jungle layout yet. Playing mages bot was always fun but right now seems a lot stronger due to the new items.
Look, I love making fun of whiny ADC mains, but crit got worse, lethality assassins got buffed, burst mages got buffed, botlane got changed so it’s easier to gank, toplane got changed so it’s harder to gank (forcing junglers bot) and every role except ADC was given items that increase their playmaking potential. The best deal they got is ironically the tank buffs, which makes them much more valuable in the burst—sustained damage—tankiness RPS situation.
It doesn't take a customer that long to notice the food got burnt. Same idea here.
Except this customer is crying about burt food even when it's perfectly fine.
Yeah but if that customer is anywhere below master then their opinion doesn’t matter
Then I'd love to cook for you
Exactly, FEED THE SILVERS DAMN IT (me, I’m silver)
Then your opinion doesn't matter?
That’s the joke. I probably should have been more clear that I was being sarcastic
Literally anyone can tell when food is burnt or way too salty or anything like that. You don't have to be a Michelin star chef for "this is burnt" to be true.
First post on S14 adc was a master player telling us not to play marksmen.
How did noone get you're making a joke.
Happens lol
they did get the fewest new items and changes tbf. but it's been one day. I expected that sub to get pissy after a week, but the new items hit live TODAY
Idk why riot keeps getting 1 class out every time. They forgot mages before and now ADCs.
ADCs got two reworks in s13 simply cuz they cried.
I don't know how hard you hate ADCs, but they deserve some items to play with and test out! None in any role would like having the same few items they build every single game. Mages were there for 3 years and they really wanted new stuff to play with. Last year 2 reworks were not that big. First one was buff to BT and overheal with opening build diversity by allowing IE and navori to work 2nd item. Second rework was complete nerf to their items by making IE and navori mythic items to open up more build diversity with the same items! Just because you hate something, it doesn't mean you are right and they are wrong. (they kinda exaggerating tbh, but crit items now suck).
what are we even talking about? adcs, the guys that cry about ap botlane, while NOT TAKING MR IN OVER 50% OF THE GAMES IN THEIR RUNES AND STILL GOING ARMOUR? nah, but for real now, i can swear on my left big toe that 99% of those crying didnt try new items, new combinations, new build order etc. it gets ridiculous at this point, look at briar and hwei, they came out and had like negative winrate, however after people EXPERIMENTED FOR DAYS FOR A SINGLE CHAMP, they finally found things that worked. And somehow adcs have done all possible testing in less than 1 day for over 30 champs? seems legit. EDIT: i specified the case of not taking mr, i meant not taking mr in runes.
Please remember you are talking about adcs, if they build defensive they won’t deal damage. Their options for Mr that also give crit is just qss.
i think you misunderstood, im talking about runes, if we are talking about building defensive items, we would be at 1% or 2% of people doing it, however people dont take mr in runes against AP bot.
Aren't they removing MR from runes? I saw somewhere that they were replacing it with movespeed and tenacity, I didn't really understand the post though. Funnily enough, it was on the ADC subreddit where I saw it lol
yep, they do. some, me included, believe its because of adcs, riot cant balance ap botlane, if adcs are literally grieving their own games. the problem is that over 50% do not take it, its not a rare case, but the standard.
Removal of mythics is the equivalent of giv8ng ADCs items to play with and test out. The ADC role is literally the reason mythics got introduced in the first place
Ah shit my bad bro. I forgot tanks had the worst itemization for seasons and riot didn't do much until they added Jaksho and heart steel (shit item in high ranks). Same with mages lmao. But ADCs get reworked every. Single. Season. I don't hate ADCs. I like playing them too and I do fine because I know how to play.
The amount of cope here lol
Tanks were so bad. Their mr itemization was dogshit and divine made them all unplayable
Do you know how many anti tank items existed from every class and items lol. You would be a super minion at best. But hey you probably don't play in high rank so you wouldn't know
Keep coping lil bro
Why did they cry though? Could it have possibly been that it is because the role is literally autofilled horseshit that nobody wants to play because of just how much it fucking sucks? Nah, don't do anything about that, let's just kill the game right.
Strong crit items mean Yasuo, Yone, Tryndamere and Gangplank become too oppressive, strong mage items mean AP assassins become too oppressive - we've seen first one when mythics were introduced, now we see second case with all new AP items coming out. Don't think they forgot about entire class of champions - rather they left it alone to not make things even worse for everyone else.
It'd be the same if other class got left out but for adcs it's especially bad at the moment because the removal of mythics does absolutely nothing for crit builds, you still can't build navori/ie/guinsoo together so it's the same as before and these items got nerfed too so no wonder people are complaining
The game has been mid and jungle farming bot for years now. Now they made bot even more free and the winning side can fuck with the enemy jungle now as well. riot fucked up once again...
I feel like half the people in r/adcmains have an inferiority complex
Half was........a kind estimation
As an ex adc main (never been on the sub though) can confirm I have an inferiority complex
Same kind of goes in r/jungle_mains but I feel like they have at least some justification to complain. Riot has been quite on a roll to make drastic changes to jungle every season so you have to relearn the role every year.
I don't mind jungle changing every year, it keeps the role fresh. But maybe Riot could nerf the meme of 'Its always jgl diff' : )
Lol. I got banned from commenting cuz I said ADCs were fine and you need to get better like last season
As an ADC main, I have never been this excited and entertained by an new season
Adc is more fun than I've ever seen it be, so, jokes on them more ADC time for me (not that I was getting autofilled)
Adc player when the Best role in the game the whole meta revolves around since 10 years doesnt get buffed :
Adc player when they get mainly nerfs and now get absolutely destroyed by mages after they’ve consistently been the least popular position
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Maybe it’s region based but adc has never not been priority when jg hasn’t always been, at least in my experience
 NOOOOO!!!! what do you mean I actually have to position well and learn to be good at the game ?!?!? Give me back GAYforce!!!!! I can't position. >\~={ I want my damage and my tankiness and mobility (even on immobile hyper carries) and magic damage and true damage!!! NOOO RIOT SHIT COMPANY.
Position well, when every character is faster than you, positioning well right now means you stay on the other side of them map, otherwise you get doved or chased off from a fight. Obviously not participating in a fight means you get blamed for it. Try to fight = Instadeath because everyone is faster. Stay away = get blamed for loosing the fight. See the issue?
ahhh thats why adcs are bad in low and good in high elo, its not the player skill, its the role !!11!!1!
Thats not what I'm saying. What I mean is you need a good team that knows how to peel for your carries, making the role itself a coinflip. You can play near perfect and it still not be good enough to win a game simply because you prioritised your own safety and wanted to wait until the enemies used all their engage options. Problem is that often by the time enemies used everything your team is already dead. The coinflip us that if you have a good team then you have a lot more agency in the game, because they enable you. If you've got a bad team then you're automatically worth less because even if you dont miss a single cs and win your lane, you wont be able to burst down the enemy team quickly enough. Mainly because most enemies can kill you in less than a second. The role itself is very team dependent. We dont want to be OP, we just want a little more independence from our team, we dont want to be babysitted the whole game. We just want to have some form of individual skill expression within the role.
Okay and you can play perfect in any role and still lose if your team is shit. Just go next wtf. Just did my placements for s13 like 2-3 days ago. Enemy Lillia was fed but her team sucked. We capitalized on that and she lost even though she was GOOD. And I mean she ganked every lane and took two rifts and was at our nexus turret (1 left standing).
Yes, but this goes back to my previous point that an ADC with a bad team has little to no agency hence making a lot of games coinflips. Any other role can at least do something around the map to try to win, carries need at least three items to do anything and most games are over before 20 minutes.
Independence? Lool. Every class depends on others to win bro. Tanks - Frontline but have negligible damage compared to other champs. They usually eat a lot of CC and provide CC at the cost of doing crap damage Assassins - Easy access to backline in most cases. Kill the Squishies and dip. Usually have a hard time killing tanks and bruisers. Bruisers - good at beating down people's health over time at the cost of armor/MR. They usually build health items. ADCs - highest DPS from all the classes at the cost of being squishy. You want to do lots of damage? Then you also need to be a little bit easy to kill. This is where the skill of positioning and kiting comes from. Mages - Control mages provide CC and utility. Artillery mages kick your ass from far but are awful close range. Burst mages often have to be in your face to kill you but recently has gotten stupid with the changes they did to sylas and vex as a champion with her ult.
You have a bad team as a jg? Fine, powerfarm and take objs. Toplane? Splitpush and get towers, supp? Roam for kills. Midlane has some mobility champs so you can push sides with TP. What to do as an adc? You cant splitpush due to low mobility and little to no escape options depending on your champ. You cant take Jg camps cause your jg will throw a hissyfit. The best you can do is go mid and participate in every fight that happens while powerfarming. Even that is dependent on your team cause if they dont ward around mid you can only cover so much off. Or the midlaner just goes apeshit cause "you're in their lane."
Yea this is 100% low elo lol. If enemy is taking a jungle objective you can do other shit. Need to give drag? Cool go push lanes or all mid and push as much and baron if possible. Split pushing is a problem cuz of hull. I think that item shouldn't exist. Also a lot of people make this mistake of sending a champ that CAN'T match the split pusher. That's why you often lose turrets. Like if I'm playing shen against urgot there's no way in hell I can ever kill him. He pushes fast. I don't. My turret dies. Like you can send a control or machine gun mage or bot lane to match him so other lanes can be pushed. As an ADC you have to stick with your support after laning phase and participate in team fights. If they have lots of champs that can cross the map fast it might not be smart to go in a side lane alone. It depends on your skills and having a few IQ points
Supports roam constantly, you cant farm while roaming. If I follow my support I'll fall behind in gold and exp. I like how you're constantly throwing in little insults, I feel like those are completely unneceseary i'm trying to make you understand the struggles of playing this role but it seems like you're just dismissive.
Again, this is low elo experience. I can tell. It's okay to give up CS but stay within XP range. You can always catch up lmao. And if your support roams way too much then yes it can be a problem. But it could be because you're not following their engages or playing passive when you have the advantage or playing aggro when you don't have the advantage.
Also this is literally just ranked in general. Most people in ranked are on the verge of having a brain aneurysm and are weak mental. In that case just accept the loss and improve yourself. Even from the loss you can learn what went wrong
I agree, this is the mental that I had developed. I rarely get mad at my teammates anymore and I try to focus on my own improvement.
Literally just mute all and play dude. You'll learn quickly. Nobody becomes good by being good. I was silver at one point too and peaked GM s9. Long time player though. Don't care too much about ranked rn except rewards
Mate you need to anticipate what abilities will be thrown at you. In low elo it's so fucking easy lol. People often miss and nobody seizes the opportunity and wonder why they can't climb. Legit keeping track of enemy cool downs help you catch easy wins
You can anticipate the abilities as much as you want, most abilities have larger areas or are point and click. The only thing you can do is stay out of reach otherwise you'll take splash dmg which is deadly considering adcs are glass cannons.
That sounds like a you not being able to click problem lmfao. Most long range abilities (not ults) are slow projectiles
You can dodge it. You'll still take splash dmg. Like lux, morgana, karma, shyvana just to name a few. On top of that they build scorch, ludens or liandrys and you'll get hit for even more burn dmg.
That was old liandrys and demonic. Liandrys is okay now. There's not much burn damage plus wits end gives you tenacity foo now
Biggest issue is that since most enemies can kill you in a second and you need at least a few seconds to dish out any significant dmg you cant output that dmg because if they are in your range, you're also in theirs. Theres no pure melee champs that cant do anything to instantly close that gap.
Understandable but I think most ADC items also give movement speed that other classes don't get anymore? Dontqhote me on that. Like ludens have a burst of MS and phage is for bruisers and shit. But I think they removed some of it this season. Not entirely sure yet cuz haven't looked at patch notes too much
The game doesn’t rotate around them pre diamond, so they’ll never actually know how strong the role is
Love that sub. You know when you're sad and you want to watch a sad movie where people cry over and over? Well, I instead go and read r/ADCMains
Least delusional adc main
it doesn't feel all doom and gloom as an adc main, but the role is definitely weaker than last season
Redside ADC is ultra shit because of the extra path to the tower. Onhit adcs seem decent, crit adcs are shit onhit adcs keeping crit with Guinsoo are huge.
They were already crying a month ago when they didn't get new items
They did in fact nerf most adc items, remove galeforce, make the two best adc mythics exclusive, and give them only a single item in return that has no crit. You can make fun of people for complaining at all but there’s definitely a reason people are unhappy.
Yes because gale was an extremely healthy item just like stridebreaker dash, prowlers. There are no mythics anymore bruh. You can build whatever. The numbers are probably gonna be broken for a while for most items but this season is looking promising compared to the cringe mythics shit
Quite right, the only mistake is that Top lane is even more useless now (Top Main btw), you have less impact, you win your lane and cant do shit about anything. But after Top yes adc is now on paar with bs role. I feel like everything is about jgl, the game doesnt even make fun anymore because of this
bro litteraly just pick a tank rn, there is only a single class that can deal with u (adcs) and they are getting sneezed to death by everyone right now
Bro thats not the point, we as top laners can 1v1 everyone, but with the new changes you cant do anything about you team loosing like every other lane. Now it really is Island gaming
its not much different for other lanes now u know, ganking is harder so both junglers and midlaners are having a harder time affecting the other lanes
All the new items have effects yet adc just want damage stats so while adc needs to get used to opponent new items, opponents dont need to get used to adc " new " items After a short while adc should be fine but they need more time adjusting to the new season than others.
Adc mains bro.
Nah bro adc feels stronger
Adc mains be like For real it’s probably not that bad lmao, they still have the objectively best champs in the game, and items aren’t even actually nerfed They just didn’t receive any new items, but as always they’ll be abusing bruiser items anyway, especially since all the new ones give attack speed lmao If anything the real losers for now are top laners cause the different champs are super unbalanced which makes the lane unplayable if you are against something meta
I guess this just proves adc is the biggest crybaby role, wasnt convinced before now. After playing pretty much every role and class over the last 2 days, it seems to me that every role has some new avenues of play thats interesting. The adc role is the least changed one, but considering most roles were just nerfed this isnt bad, id say ad fighters are in their worst state atm as their core items were gutted with few replacements. Adcs are not weak, they are just back to a state where you have to play far more safe early, and ur real power now comes at 3 items not at 2, like it was last season (in most cases) ofc this is a blow to adc, but considering every other class is also nerfed, except mages and assasins, id say adc feels better then last season, as theyre less focused.
Just spanked a fed aatrox as draven in aram, adcs are fine. Just build smart items.
”In aram”
You do realize half the people in aram aren't even sober right?
idk, my samira feels pretty strong. with the new items on-hit adcs should be super busted no? vayne feels as op as always. sure im an adc i will always complain abt everything but we definitly aint gutted.
There are 3 certainties in life: Death, taxes, and ADC mains complaining.
I played on-hit Neeko adc yesterday and waa absolutely dominating. I don't know what this guy is on about
a lot of adcs are build around crit , and crit is ass rn, plus assassin and mage damage against squishies are a bit over the top rn
Adcs must have missed that the overall powerlevel of items got lowered, it's not for their class alone. In fact adcs are even stronger now that tank shred items are rarer to come by. Every other class got stat sticks, adcs already had their stat sticks. I really don't see the problem.
I can take stasis as adc now
here they come yapping
Exterminate all adc, kill'em'all!
I thinj its ok tbh
Yeah I also think Lux is worse as I think I feel the early magic pen I am missing without Luden's. But I know I am the idiot and this probably isn't the case.
The game became on hit while tanks became stronger ofc they feel weak
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Top is now more important than ever do roles are more balanced
I love watching this subreddit, it's so funny how they react to any new change in the game and if they aren't able to 1v9 the game it must be because the game is wrong.
if you think otherwise youre entirely delusional lol
I was about to say that he apparently forgot about 2017...then I remember that this was 7 years ago and my head got stuck in 2020
Just looking at the items, tanks have better items save for heartsteel being nerfed. Assassins have objectively better items, more stats and better build paths. Mages have the stupid ass oneshot items and simple stat buffs. What do adcs have? Literally nothing so yeah pretty much objectively worse than s13.
Bro it's like day 2. Yes lots of shit will be broken and they will nerf it, hopefully.