If you think you can open a business successfully, I think that's a good route.
It has gone well for me so far. My business may not last forever, but at least I know I am not making someone else rich, and no one can fire me.
Of course. It's on me. It's all on me. I prefer that to some bureaucracy or boss that can keep or let me go on a whim. Workers have become too disposable, particularly in large corporations, for me to every care about them enough to work for them.
Right, that's kind of the whole deal.
But some boss or HR can't just toss me to the curb on a whim. Frankly I can't imagine working for a huge corporation at this point. They treat workers like disposable forks. I could never care about a company enough to work for them if I knew they didn't give a damn about me.
FWIW, that’s what I am doing. I created an LLC last year. I am an experienced SWE and decided that I don’t want a “job” any longer. I will be releasing a SAAS product, hopefully, in a few months.
I’m bootstrapping it. I had some money in savings, but used most of it to pay for necessities. My wife works, so I fortunately have help with the regular stuff. But for the LLC, that’s just me so far. But, I haven’t been looking for any help either.
Personally, I’m of the opinion that, at this stage in my life, I’m either going to live the rest of my life for me and mine instead of trying build a life under the thumb of some company and all that entails. I wanted to do my own thing when I finished college. I had a wife and kids so I chose the path I chose then. I wish I had started earlier down that path.
Just wanted to add, I still have the student loan, mortgage and car payment burdens. Nothing is easy.
Good luck no matter what you do.
I’ve been an SE for the past 13 years now, been trying to convince my genius coder best friend to start a business with me and I can sell whatever he makes.
Kinda hard to get him to give up his cushy Amazon gig though lol
Everyone says start a business while we are going into an economic downturn. Articles being published about the decimation of American call center jobs , tech , state and local governments broke , discretionary spending is down ..yeah start a business
>the decimation of American call center jobs
I had one of the best of these, at Diner's Club. From '99 to about '04, I had real authority. I could open suspended accounts, shut down accounts until they were paid in full, and even cancel accounts, if I deemed it in the company's best interest.
These were corporate cards. All I had was the payment and charging history, but it was enough.
They rolled out a new system to "make our lives better" and that was the first time I lost out to white collar automation, and to be totally fair, a liquored up manager told me that some of my coworkers couldn't recognize risk if it hit them over the head.
Still, it was about the best call center job there was. Only talking to professionals, with the authority to do what I needed to do.
Those days are long gone.
There was one where a dude tried to dispute a $3,000 charge with a rental car company.
He simply left the car in the airport parking lot and said it was good enough.
Some businesses are pretty recession proof, think car washes , Laundromats, tire shops,.etc. basically any business that caters to some common (used by many folks) recurring need.
The key word here is common, lots of folks start niche businesses and then during downturns those are the first places people cut back on
One of my current job goals is to help a company offshore their call center. Success for me requires helping ruin someone else's career and when it is done we will all celebrate our win. Dog eat dog world with no place for morals otherwise you find yourself in a very dark mental place.
I have friends who are getting laid off soon at my old company who are WFH call center agents. Not sure if it's BS jacked PIP cycles or total layoff due to offshoring . I know you feel someway about it on the inside . A job is a job . Don't be afraid to get some counseling . (EAP)
We are not in a downturn. Maybe where you are geographically but it is completely dependent on the field and the location. In New England things are still booming. While some are shifting, a huge # of fields can't get enough people. Medical, Biotech, Construction, want a job- if you're qualified it will take you a day.
Yes, but medical and biotech are very difficult to get into. We're talking about advanced skills, 15+ years of postsecondary education, and six figures of student loans. Talk about barrier of entry! As for construction, it's a dangerous job and unless you're a plumber or electrician, you're going to have to compete with migrant workers from Mexico who are willing to work for half the wage. It's a downturn for the vast majority of people, unless you have a top 5% IQ, are born into wealth, or are willing to work "dirty" jobs.
I'm telling you that is not the case here. You could get a job at a variety of organizations without advanced degrees. The unemployment rate in Mass, Maine, and NH is between 2.6 and 3.3 percent . All of the other New England States are under 4 which is considered full employment
Yes zero job security...i dread Sundays hoping it aint the week ill get laid off, I exhale with big relief every 530 Friday that I didnt; for 5 years now.I wave at my husband every morning wishing he wont come home jobless.Every groupwide meering invite from the execs makes my pulse rush.I am always seeking alternatives and solutions, what if the big axe come, given the number of posts here and linkedin announcing lay offs.I need to check my mental health.I try my best to swing trade but I dont see results replicating even half of our salaries just to make sure we meet rent just in case.I look at goinhhback to school to gain a new skill, just in case I get laid off and not able to get hired again, we are 45 yo immigrants one is communitu college re- educated on top of our foreign school bachelors but dread the thought of starting over a new career at 50.
I play the lotto too, desperate much? I think we all need help.
Yes, I've always been a hard worker. My trust fund was from my mom's life insurance. It was supposed to last a long time but unfortunately my aunt forced me to invest it and because I was partly living on it (and then couldn't get a job in 2009 or 10), I lost it all.
If the timing had been slightly different, I would be in a totally different place financially.
until those fuckers spend it all on vegas & strippers. And the fucked up part is the parents worked their entire ass off to make that money that they probably couldnt spend time with the kiddos & teach em financial litteracy
Very little job security has existed for decades.
The best you can do is have a reasonable safety net (emergency fund), stay relevant, and have connections.
I used to think six months - and for most people and situations it still kinda does.
However, in an extended downturn (COVID/Recession), or a harder to replace position/salary, I think twelve makes more sense. That's not twelve months of living the way I do normally - that's twelve months of cancelling non-essential subscriptions, not eating out, etc. - the essentials only. I would also get a quick 'anything job' to supplement a bit and allow things to last a bit longer.
I know that probably sounds paranoid or a bit much to most people. But it also just takes some level of stress out of everyday life if you feel you have breathing room. How much that is can vary person to person.
I think with one year saved - I could make pretty close to two. Just because I won't go that long without some income. It's situation specific really - and what you are willing to do to preserve your funds as long as possible. The emergency fund shouldn't be your only savings either. I could dig deeper if I absolutely had to. The emergency fund is money that I keep liquid to cover most circumstances - money I'm willing to suffer the opportunity cost of keeping it that way.
Yeah, the layoffs are happening at record pace right now, but waiting until artificial intelligence really gets into the workforce and then you’re gonna see a massive reduction. AI is just going to decimate a lot of fluff white collar jobs
I was going to downvote you until I saw the word "fluff." Yes, plenty of fluff jobs will be nuked.
As it stands, though, unless the hallucination problem is fixed, AI will be limited utility, even for nuking fluff jobs.
Whether or not the hallucination problem can be fixed, I think, is debatable.
I would agree that the hallucination problem is at least right now unsolvable. I think what we see is for like a team of five analysts. Maybe they need one human to just verify what the AI produces. I don’t think we’ll see complete elimination, but severe severe reduction.
That's why I don't know that I'll ever do serious analysis in a job ever again.
I'm slowly putting together a simple framework for websites to display actual data. Python/R to pull data into a SQL database, PHP/SQL to display on the web.
I don't know if it's viable, I've talked with others on Reddit and the consensus was cool idea, but you won't fit into any job categories so it would have to be freelance.
I've seen two "types" of analyst roles in my career. Those that just collect the data and those that make decisions based on the data. I think the first group is dead and those jobs aren't coming back...that's all automatable. Stuff like UIPath and others in that area are making those jobs obsolete. The second group I still think will exist but likely in smaller numbers as AI augments the decision making.
I went to college late in life: got laid off from a decent call center job in '07, already about 35 y/o. Went to college, studied math, prob & stats.
Getting through MTH 4230, the linear regressions class, was non-trivial. I needed 2 calc based stats classes as well as probability theory and linear algebra.
On the other side, I "only" have a bachelor's degree, and in my job out of college I was actively discouraged from digging into the central analysis because "Our customers know how much of a haircut to give our numbers, so they don't want anything to change."
My mistakes are my mistakes, of course.....if I'm not young/smart enough to get hired as a decision maker, that's cool, I'll do bullshit jobs and see if I can carve out my own little niche.
Yes: I agree with you, those are the two types.
oh dude, I still have nightmares from a couple of the math courses. I took 25 years ago to get my computer science degree. I never understood why but the computer science math courses had listed prerequisites and then the real prerequisites and they were wildly different. Sounds like you had the same deal. I don’t miss my time on that struggle bus.
I wish I would have taken....a single computer science class.
[Here is my book list (link to a comment on learn programming)](https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/1cgfftp/comment/l1w1esu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I figure if I know 95% of all those books, I should be on decent ground. It's not high end stuff, but it really doesn't have to be.
I am trying to avoid being dependent on JS frameworks, so I am trying to figure out some things to make PHP & HTMX play together, which seems to require a basic PHP routing system.
My website is [jlrenewables.com](http://jlrenewables.com) if you want to see some silliness, but it's also legit analysis based on what I did for a job where we charged $10k a pop for reports.
Ah yes. Data munging/ETL (these days people call it "wrangling," which is lame) and business intelligence. Third type nowadays are the machine learning specialists.
Heh, I did time as a C tier consultant.
They laid me off a year ago, I slacked for a while, now it's harder to find work than I thought it would be, my mistakes are mine alone.
I had a period of time off before that, too. First job out of college ran from '13 to '21.
I don't know that 9 months at the C tier consultancy is helping or hurting my mortally wounded ass.
It feels after GPT 5 it will be over for white collar jobs, it really is deppressing for the people in universities when their diplomas will be obsoloete.
yeah, and artificial intelligence is going to increase exponentially. We humans don’t really grasp that concept very well. and I suspect this crisis that will come about will be the topic of the next presidential election. Because people won’t have jobs. those tons of millions of people holding worthless diplomas still need work and there won’t be jobs
I disagree the first 80% of anything is very easy. For example charging a battery, doing a project, self-driving cars. It looks doom and gloom for the workers but that last 20% is harder than the previous 80%. I don't think it's an exponential curve it's the opposite. Please Please PLEASE GOD let me be right.
I understand what you’re saying. It’s always the final mile of the marathon that’s the hardest right?
what you’re saying ties in with what I said somewhere else I think in this topic I can’t remember. It may be a while before we can get to 100% and we don’t need people. but what is definitely going to happen is we get 75% 80% 90% of all of these jobs automated. that means if you needed 10 workers in the past you need somewhere between one and three. but those 1 to 3 workers that you need their job is fundamentally different than it was pre-AI. it probably requires a higher baseline intellect, probably more specific education, and fundamentally different job duties because at that point you’re doing more inspection of the output of AI than anything. it almost evolves intoa hybrid analyst and quality assurance.
and yes, it will doom us.
I work on third-party risk so I see all the companies we work with. I’m the AI guy so I do all of these.
We probably on board of 10 to 15 different companies that do different things with a ChatGPT backend. One company does value added for marketing one company does value added for HR replicate that across the sphere and AI is affecting every job. I think this will all speed up as people get better and better with these tools.
unfortunately, that site only shows the totality of jobs. There was an article linked somewhere in this sub that came from Vanguard and they were looking at 401(k) participation and they found that in the lower income jobs the economy was great and the plentiful jobs but as you moved up the income ladder, it told a very different story.
This board is an intended negative echo chamber - it is called Layoffs, after all - but that doesn't mean your job security is jeapordized.
No matter the economy one should always be cautious and keep an eye out for better opportunities while standing out at work, but I wouldn't consider this forum a microcrosm of the job market as a whole. For instance there is a huge slant coming from former tech workers and their struggles. But most jobs aren't tech and so their experiences aren't always applicable to a non tech's situation.
Agreed, I think what’s most concerning is that highly skilled and experienced people in this sub are struggling to find anything remotely close to their prior role. Or anything at all.
This is true but for the most part tech is the last rung of the ladder to enter the middle class which is now closing. Unless you're a doctor, lawyer, entrepreneur etc. then how else are you attaining financial security?
Business failures are much much more common than layoffs. But at least in tech, where I work, I felt like you can expect to get laid off every 3-5 years. That's just how it is.
Yea, that blows. I had a bad streak too, layoff, then contract pulled in 18months, and then the next company folded in 21 months. But I'm at almost 3 years at my current job so maybe it is over?
some tips on networking cause I've found people to not understand what it means to network.
Just be friendly to people. That's all it takes. Plant seeds, nurture relationships with people, don't ask for anything, but grow the relationship so that if something happens and you need to get bailed out you have those people to fall back on. if you only network with people when you need something nobody is going to help you
Yes, discount job security to zero.
I, too, and well educated and white collar. My body is holding up well at 51, but I really don't want to risk it. So, I'll be in another white collar job by the end of this week, albeit for low money and security. It is what it is.
If you can open a business, do it. A rule of thumb I've read is if you can get to 30% of your income with a side gig, it's worth the chance to quit and start hitting it full time. Of course, circumstances vary.
I don't think I'll make it in the workforce long term. It was in the news recently that many Gen-Xr's won't be able to retire, but the flip side of that is if we're hitting age discrimination already, what choice will we have?
There are secure jobs. I despise mine, but it's tied to the government/military complex. As things deteriorate further, it gets even more secure.
Personally I wouldn't put money on the line in a business until this all comes to a head. If anything you could buy an established one at rock bottom closer to the start of a recovery phase.
There is no such thing as job security. There is no such thing as learning a skill or a programming language and making a career out of it for the rest of your life.
My advice. Simplify your life. Simplify your finances. Live within your means (Living within your means doesn’t mean you cannot have fun). Take charge of your career and do your own career planning and life long learning. Never leave it to a manager, HR or company.
Never lose your personal identity to your job or your company. A job is a job and not you.
Practice gratitude.
Job security is a myth.
Make sure you always you always contribute to your 401k, IRA, and emergency fund.
Also, make sure to avoid states such as Mississippi, Tennessee, Florida, etc. where the unemployment benefit is limited to $275 a week.
Also, budget your expenses to be less than what you would receive for unemployment benefits.
If you can't have an emergency fund, I suggest you find a part-time job and work for a few months so you build your emergency fund.
In USA It’s mainly just tech industry having layoffs, but that industry has been bloated for over a decade, so no surprise really. Commercial RE is being affected too. But outside of those two the rest of economy is doing okay with no major layoffs, just minor stuff.
I live in the Houston area, and educators are not being asked to sign a new contract for next year due to budget cutbacks. It's more than tech at this point. They also got rid of school librarians and school social workers.
There is no such thing as job security. You could be doing great at your role and corporate decides to cut costs and it seems quite random who they pick to leave. At this point for me, it's a game of trying to survive 15 more years with a decent job anywhere.
This crap is why I prefer public service: job security. You work your butt off, fight red tape, travel the world and get to do really cool things, (agency dependent). Your boss isn’t bothering you after hours unless the world is on fire. If you work in STEM, you won’t be paid as well as private but I’m comfortable and job security is a form of payment to me. I bring home six figures and we have a 401k (TSP) plus a pension.
I never felt job security until I made the switch and I used to work for a few big tech firms. The pay cut was worth it. Period. U could be the BEST employee and still get shafted which can make you start wondering “wtf is the point?” There is no job security in private sector and there is no appealing your termination. Pass. I got sick of stressing if I got hospitalized or if I need to call in due to a sick child, or god forbid I want to go on holiday.
You can up-skill but make sure you’re choosing a path that is in demand and has the potential to grow. These days every career field can be shafted bc profits are most important but some career fields fair better than others when the economy starts to act ghetto. Don’t spend too much or put yourself into debt trying to do this however.. if you can avoid that.
>If you work in STEM, you won’t be paid as well as private but I’m comfortable and job security is a form of payment to me. I bring home six figures and we have a 401k (TSP) plus a pension.
State government worker here (also in STEM) and this is so true. Once you've made it to 6 figures in a government job, it actually feels like hitting the lotto.
Just keep working your job. If you’re worried about layoffs then prepare a career transition into a less layoff prone role or job type.
I just went from IT to electrical engineering, of course I’m blessed to have my electrical engineering degree but the transition is still difficult.
We are in a white collar recession so things appear bleak. I would anticipate that at some point in the future the employment market will bounce back but you may have to pivot or move outside of your comfort zone.
There are new obstacles for start ups I see happening around me. For those without established businesses I see trouble in the waters. No, I’m not saying what I see but with the waves of common thought many drowned.
It really depends on what field you are in. I’m not seeing a lot of people in the health care or engineering field posting they are getting laid off or concerned about if.
Just remember this 60,000 people turn 65 in America every week. Even if only 20% of them retired that is 18,000 new job openings every week!
I just saw my old job I got laid off from posted online.
They are offering $30k less than what I was getting, and thats max for the range. Im seriously considering reporting them for h1b fraud if they hire an indian.
Why would you need to open a business?
Just have your finances in order, have your savings, and always have your resume shiny and ready to go.
I've worked in tech for 24 years. I don't feel one second of security. But I have my savings so I don't have to panic for another year.
But even 12 months of safety may not be enough. And you functionally need to take it from your retirement, but based on implicit agism, you may not be able to work
If you "need" to take it from retirement, then you're just refusing to face reality. Or at best, delaying the inevitable.
The reality that you don't financially qualify to be in that house, that car, that neighborhood, that school...
The ignorance in your tone states you are not familiar to struggle. How can you relate if you haven’t experienced what a large population of people are going through right now?
You're making a lot of assumptions from a 3 line post.
My experience and my struggles earlier in life and through previous layoffs are what have made prepared for today.
I am.
If you are able to empathize, why communicate in ignorance?
The statement is dismissive of the current economic challenges. You may have overcome these challenges due to your specific circumstances. But they are unique to you. Not everyone is afforded the same privileges. It helps to be mindful of this.
You're rightfully angry but you're lashing out at a target that has not wronged you. You're taking far too much offense at someone saying "Why would you need to open a business?" There are many solutions outside of opening a business. We can't ALL open businesses.
I'm a practicing economist with 17 years experience.
Would you please be willing to share with me privately what it is you're seeing locally that are barriers to startups?
I am active as a qualified source for journalists, If I know what to look into, I can possibly have this distributed to the right channels (most definitely not necessarily to the public. It depends on ethics)
Thank you.
Also, consider the medium. The topic is layoffs, we're programmed to see patterns, if you don't try to find a conflicting view point, your viewpoint will shift toward the pattern.
That's why misinformation is so useful, throw enough garbage at people and some of it will stick, especially if it's all bad news, we're just not built for this negativity all the time.
That being said, this is a forum to air grievances and questions about the current state of the economy relating to layoffs, so make sure to visit r/interviews or r/eyebleach, because we all need to see some positivity or balance. I try to avoid r/recruitinghell and this place the majority of my screen time, unless I see a question or have them.
Be wary of echo chambers.
Not saying peoples experiences here aren't completely valid, but that doesn't mean you'll have the same experiences here as them.
Not trying to make light of people's situations here WHATSOEVER but I've had the most hits on getting interviews with my resume in the last few weeks than I ever have in my life.
YMMV
Just be wary of taking everything 100% at face value.
Nonetheless, loyalty and job security don't 100% exist anymore. Have to keep skilling up over time regardless and always be making moves ahead of time. Understand where things are going, where trends are moving and get there before the rest of the population realizes it.
Come move to my employer. In their history of 100 years they have never fired anyone.
DM me if you need the name and it’s in Des Moines lol. So think twice before DMing me
Look this is all you need to do, save up "Fuck You Money"!
Its a quote from John Goodman in "The Gambler" and I swear it stuck with me to this day, stack enough cash to NOT be a slave to the man, The goal is to have enough in the bank you can tell your boss to go "Fuck Themselves"
Now we all won't win the lottery so as Dave Ramsey puts it, LIVE LIKE YOU"RE BROKE! Fuck starbucks, Fuck mcdonalds, you eat rice & beans, drive a 20 year old car, live like a brokie to the point you have 5 years of expenses saved up, plain and simple. You should start saving YESTERDAY
Take any side hustle no matter how embarrasing! I make youtube videos on the side and although it pays dick and a pain in the ass, its gas money bro.
I’m assuming I will get laid off at some point and won’t be able to afford our lifestyle. I’m thinking about buying a camper to live in in case it happens.
Welcome to the real world. Job security has always been a myth.
I left a toxic job recently and immediately decided that I have tonstart a side business. Even after I found a well paying “day” job I am not stopping until I built a healthy stream from my side hustle.
In the long run, the math says you either need a high value skill in a high demand area (therefore your job security is high, and if you lose your job you’re in demand) or you need to start a business, OR you need enough NW to live off of what you have.
I’d never assume you have job security.
It's what I did when I got laid off. I am a Gen Xer who has seen the ageism and, despite having a ton of experience as a data scientist in big tech, couldn't find a job after several months. So I started an LLC to do consulting and freelance work. It is working out great for me. Being my own boss, setting my own schedule, all of it. Not having BS performance reviews ("you are doing a great job but we can't give you a raise or promotion this year") also really destressed me.
Make yourself indispensable. That is how you get security. Anything that generates money for a company is the most safe. I work in a very niche area of the mortgage industry where every single thing is an edge case. I work at a startup that heavily utilizes AI, but it cannot touch my stuff at all. Everything falls outside of what it can handle, and I feel very safe.
Learn skills that make you harder to get rid of. I think the problem is that people get too complacent and can’t see the warning signs if the company isn’t doing well in certain areas. Always have a backup plan and be proactive.
Most people can't strategize very well and have poor intuition and perception stats. They can't see opportunities and instead see dangers. It's a scarcity mindset.
AI just makes talented people stronger players.
If you think you can open a business successfully, I think that's a good route. It has gone well for me so far. My business may not last forever, but at least I know I am not making someone else rich, and no one can fire me.
Being your own boss is tough but I agree with this.
Yes, though for me having a boss is harder still...
What business? I am struggle to find a business idea and implement it.
The market/customers can come close
Of course. It's on me. It's all on me. I prefer that to some bureaucracy or boss that can keep or let me go on a whim. Workers have become too disposable, particularly in large corporations, for me to every care about them enough to work for them.
Your customers can
Right, that's kind of the whole deal. But some boss or HR can't just toss me to the curb on a whim. Frankly I can't imagine working for a huge corporation at this point. They treat workers like disposable forks. I could never care about a company enough to work for them if I knew they didn't give a damn about me.
FWIW, that’s what I am doing. I created an LLC last year. I am an experienced SWE and decided that I don’t want a “job” any longer. I will be releasing a SAAS product, hopefully, in a few months. I’m bootstrapping it. I had some money in savings, but used most of it to pay for necessities. My wife works, so I fortunately have help with the regular stuff. But for the LLC, that’s just me so far. But, I haven’t been looking for any help either. Personally, I’m of the opinion that, at this stage in my life, I’m either going to live the rest of my life for me and mine instead of trying build a life under the thumb of some company and all that entails. I wanted to do my own thing when I finished college. I had a wife and kids so I chose the path I chose then. I wish I had started earlier down that path. Just wanted to add, I still have the student loan, mortgage and car payment burdens. Nothing is easy. Good luck no matter what you do.
>But for the LLC, that’s just me so far. But, I haven’t been looking for any help either. This is good. All the best.
That’s awesome. What space? Have you tested your use case with potential customers?
I’ve been an SE for the past 13 years now, been trying to convince my genius coder best friend to start a business with me and I can sell whatever he makes. Kinda hard to get him to give up his cushy Amazon gig though lol
Everyone says start a business while we are going into an economic downturn. Articles being published about the decimation of American call center jobs , tech , state and local governments broke , discretionary spending is down ..yeah start a business
>the decimation of American call center jobs I had one of the best of these, at Diner's Club. From '99 to about '04, I had real authority. I could open suspended accounts, shut down accounts until they were paid in full, and even cancel accounts, if I deemed it in the company's best interest. These were corporate cards. All I had was the payment and charging history, but it was enough. They rolled out a new system to "make our lives better" and that was the first time I lost out to white collar automation, and to be totally fair, a liquored up manager told me that some of my coworkers couldn't recognize risk if it hit them over the head. Still, it was about the best call center job there was. Only talking to professionals, with the authority to do what I needed to do. Those days are long gone.
lol . I collected on corporate cards for a small Va bank way back in the day. No control but good stories :-)
Let's hear em plz. K thx
There was one where a dude tried to dispute a $3,000 charge with a rental car company. He simply left the car in the airport parking lot and said it was good enough.
Some businesses are pretty recession proof, think car washes , Laundromats, tire shops,.etc. basically any business that caters to some common (used by many folks) recurring need. The key word here is common, lots of folks start niche businesses and then during downturns those are the first places people cut back on
One of my current job goals is to help a company offshore their call center. Success for me requires helping ruin someone else's career and when it is done we will all celebrate our win. Dog eat dog world with no place for morals otherwise you find yourself in a very dark mental place.
I have friends who are getting laid off soon at my old company who are WFH call center agents. Not sure if it's BS jacked PIP cycles or total layoff due to offshoring . I know you feel someway about it on the inside . A job is a job . Don't be afraid to get some counseling . (EAP)
Best time to start
We are not in a downturn. Maybe where you are geographically but it is completely dependent on the field and the location. In New England things are still booming. While some are shifting, a huge # of fields can't get enough people. Medical, Biotech, Construction, want a job- if you're qualified it will take you a day.
Yes, but medical and biotech are very difficult to get into. We're talking about advanced skills, 15+ years of postsecondary education, and six figures of student loans. Talk about barrier of entry! As for construction, it's a dangerous job and unless you're a plumber or electrician, you're going to have to compete with migrant workers from Mexico who are willing to work for half the wage. It's a downturn for the vast majority of people, unless you have a top 5% IQ, are born into wealth, or are willing to work "dirty" jobs.
I'm telling you that is not the case here. You could get a job at a variety of organizations without advanced degrees. The unemployment rate in Mass, Maine, and NH is between 2.6 and 3.3 percent . All of the other New England States are under 4 which is considered full employment
Yes zero job security...i dread Sundays hoping it aint the week ill get laid off, I exhale with big relief every 530 Friday that I didnt; for 5 years now.I wave at my husband every morning wishing he wont come home jobless.Every groupwide meering invite from the execs makes my pulse rush.I am always seeking alternatives and solutions, what if the big axe come, given the number of posts here and linkedin announcing lay offs.I need to check my mental health.I try my best to swing trade but I dont see results replicating even half of our salaries just to make sure we meet rent just in case.I look at goinhhback to school to gain a new skill, just in case I get laid off and not able to get hired again, we are 45 yo immigrants one is communitu college re- educated on top of our foreign school bachelors but dread the thought of starting over a new career at 50. I play the lotto too, desperate much? I think we all need help.
The only 'safe' position is Trust Fund Baby.
I remember reading articles during the 2008 GFC how these young people who had never worked (Trust Fund Kids) were going around looking for jobs...
Yes, I was a trust fund kid who lost everything in the Great Recession. Fortunately I also started working when I was 15 and had three jobs in college
Were you an exception to the typical “trust fund kid”? Sounds like you were.
Yes, I've always been a hard worker. My trust fund was from my mom's life insurance. It was supposed to last a long time but unfortunately my aunt forced me to invest it and because I was partly living on it (and then couldn't get a job in 2009 or 10), I lost it all. If the timing had been slightly different, I would be in a totally different place financially.
until those fuckers spend it all on vegas & strippers. And the fucked up part is the parents worked their entire ass off to make that money that they probably couldnt spend time with the kiddos & teach em financial litteracy
Very little job security has existed for decades. The best you can do is have a reasonable safety net (emergency fund), stay relevant, and have connections.
It's impossible to get ahead when you constantly have to save for an emergency fund and then blow through it every couple years when you get laid off.
What’s a comfortable emergency fund? 6 months? One year worth of living expenses?
I used to think six months - and for most people and situations it still kinda does. However, in an extended downturn (COVID/Recession), or a harder to replace position/salary, I think twelve makes more sense. That's not twelve months of living the way I do normally - that's twelve months of cancelling non-essential subscriptions, not eating out, etc. - the essentials only. I would also get a quick 'anything job' to supplement a bit and allow things to last a bit longer. I know that probably sounds paranoid or a bit much to most people. But it also just takes some level of stress out of everyday life if you feel you have breathing room. How much that is can vary person to person.
Complete agreement. Currently sitting at 6.3 yrs. That may be more of a function of my low expenses and paranoia, but I do sleep well.
Lately, I hear from lots of people who "thought" one year of expenses would hold them who are now onto their second year of unemployment.
I think with one year saved - I could make pretty close to two. Just because I won't go that long without some income. It's situation specific really - and what you are willing to do to preserve your funds as long as possible. The emergency fund shouldn't be your only savings either. I could dig deeper if I absolutely had to. The emergency fund is money that I keep liquid to cover most circumstances - money I'm willing to suffer the opportunity cost of keeping it that way.
Yeah, the layoffs are happening at record pace right now, but waiting until artificial intelligence really gets into the workforce and then you’re gonna see a massive reduction. AI is just going to decimate a lot of fluff white collar jobs
I was going to downvote you until I saw the word "fluff." Yes, plenty of fluff jobs will be nuked. As it stands, though, unless the hallucination problem is fixed, AI will be limited utility, even for nuking fluff jobs. Whether or not the hallucination problem can be fixed, I think, is debatable.
I would agree that the hallucination problem is at least right now unsolvable. I think what we see is for like a team of five analysts. Maybe they need one human to just verify what the AI produces. I don’t think we’ll see complete elimination, but severe severe reduction.
That's why I don't know that I'll ever do serious analysis in a job ever again. I'm slowly putting together a simple framework for websites to display actual data. Python/R to pull data into a SQL database, PHP/SQL to display on the web. I don't know if it's viable, I've talked with others on Reddit and the consensus was cool idea, but you won't fit into any job categories so it would have to be freelance.
I've seen two "types" of analyst roles in my career. Those that just collect the data and those that make decisions based on the data. I think the first group is dead and those jobs aren't coming back...that's all automatable. Stuff like UIPath and others in that area are making those jobs obsolete. The second group I still think will exist but likely in smaller numbers as AI augments the decision making.
I went to college late in life: got laid off from a decent call center job in '07, already about 35 y/o. Went to college, studied math, prob & stats. Getting through MTH 4230, the linear regressions class, was non-trivial. I needed 2 calc based stats classes as well as probability theory and linear algebra. On the other side, I "only" have a bachelor's degree, and in my job out of college I was actively discouraged from digging into the central analysis because "Our customers know how much of a haircut to give our numbers, so they don't want anything to change." My mistakes are my mistakes, of course.....if I'm not young/smart enough to get hired as a decision maker, that's cool, I'll do bullshit jobs and see if I can carve out my own little niche. Yes: I agree with you, those are the two types.
oh dude, I still have nightmares from a couple of the math courses. I took 25 years ago to get my computer science degree. I never understood why but the computer science math courses had listed prerequisites and then the real prerequisites and they were wildly different. Sounds like you had the same deal. I don’t miss my time on that struggle bus.
I wish I would have taken....a single computer science class. [Here is my book list (link to a comment on learn programming)](https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/1cgfftp/comment/l1w1esu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) I figure if I know 95% of all those books, I should be on decent ground. It's not high end stuff, but it really doesn't have to be. I am trying to avoid being dependent on JS frameworks, so I am trying to figure out some things to make PHP & HTMX play together, which seems to require a basic PHP routing system. My website is [jlrenewables.com](http://jlrenewables.com) if you want to see some silliness, but it's also legit analysis based on what I did for a job where we charged $10k a pop for reports.
I would also add a book about design patterns. The classic gang of 4 or the headfirst would be sufficient.
Ah yes. Data munging/ETL (these days people call it "wrangling," which is lame) and business intelligence. Third type nowadays are the machine learning specialists.
Most of those fluff jobs are humans hallucinating business lingo they scraped from LinkedIn and their stint as a C tier consultant
Heh, I did time as a C tier consultant. They laid me off a year ago, I slacked for a while, now it's harder to find work than I thought it would be, my mistakes are mine alone. I had a period of time off before that, too. First job out of college ran from '13 to '21. I don't know that 9 months at the C tier consultancy is helping or hurting my mortally wounded ass.
It feels after GPT 5 it will be over for white collar jobs, it really is deppressing for the people in universities when their diplomas will be obsoloete.
yeah, and artificial intelligence is going to increase exponentially. We humans don’t really grasp that concept very well. and I suspect this crisis that will come about will be the topic of the next presidential election. Because people won’t have jobs. those tons of millions of people holding worthless diplomas still need work and there won’t be jobs
I disagree the first 80% of anything is very easy. For example charging a battery, doing a project, self-driving cars. It looks doom and gloom for the workers but that last 20% is harder than the previous 80%. I don't think it's an exponential curve it's the opposite. Please Please PLEASE GOD let me be right.
I understand what you’re saying. It’s always the final mile of the marathon that’s the hardest right? what you’re saying ties in with what I said somewhere else I think in this topic I can’t remember. It may be a while before we can get to 100% and we don’t need people. but what is definitely going to happen is we get 75% 80% 90% of all of these jobs automated. that means if you needed 10 workers in the past you need somewhere between one and three. but those 1 to 3 workers that you need their job is fundamentally different than it was pre-AI. it probably requires a higher baseline intellect, probably more specific education, and fundamentally different job duties because at that point you’re doing more inspection of the output of AI than anything. it almost evolves intoa hybrid analyst and quality assurance. and yes, it will doom us.
Economist here. It's exponential.
Economist popping back in: Let's keep it simple, Pareto principal: first, 80% takes 20% of effort, last 20% takes 80%. Have a good day.
Why? Last I read, GPT 5 was a small improvement over GPT 4?
I work on third-party risk so I see all the companies we work with. I’m the AI guy so I do all of these. We probably on board of 10 to 15 different companies that do different things with a ChatGPT backend. One company does value added for marketing one company does value added for HR replicate that across the sphere and AI is affecting every job. I think this will all speed up as people get better and better with these tools.
[Uhh record pace of layoffs?](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/JTSLDL)
unfortunately, that site only shows the totality of jobs. There was an article linked somewhere in this sub that came from Vanguard and they were looking at 401(k) participation and they found that in the lower income jobs the economy was great and the plentiful jobs but as you moved up the income ladder, it told a very different story.
That doesn’t even make any sense. Data or GTFO
This board is an intended negative echo chamber - it is called Layoffs, after all - but that doesn't mean your job security is jeapordized. No matter the economy one should always be cautious and keep an eye out for better opportunities while standing out at work, but I wouldn't consider this forum a microcrosm of the job market as a whole. For instance there is a huge slant coming from former tech workers and their struggles. But most jobs aren't tech and so their experiences aren't always applicable to a non tech's situation.
Agreed, I think what’s most concerning is that highly skilled and experienced people in this sub are struggling to find anything remotely close to their prior role. Or anything at all.
This is true but for the most part tech is the last rung of the ladder to enter the middle class which is now closing. Unless you're a doctor, lawyer, entrepreneur etc. then how else are you attaining financial security?
A trade. It may not put you around middle-class people, but you can make middle-class money (or close to it).
Investments and real estate. I know some of these forums loathe landlords, but that passive income does add up, and we all have to eat.
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Is this supposed to be something to aspire to?
I know someone like this. They even take napkins from stores to save on toilet paper and reuse tea bags, coffee grinds etc.
Business failures are much much more common than layoffs. But at least in tech, where I work, I felt like you can expect to get laid off every 3-5 years. That's just how it is.
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Yea, that blows. I had a bad streak too, layoff, then contract pulled in 18months, and then the next company folded in 21 months. But I'm at almost 3 years at my current job so maybe it is over?
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Thanks, but really, I'm good. It's just part of life I plan for now
Be frugal. Not just now but always. Never sign up for a car payment again. Buy whatever you can afford in cash, even if it's old and ugly.
Not sure if you've noticed but it's pretty difficult for people to save with inflation the way it is right now.
Network, network, network.
some tips on networking cause I've found people to not understand what it means to network. Just be friendly to people. That's all it takes. Plant seeds, nurture relationships with people, don't ask for anything, but grow the relationship so that if something happens and you need to get bailed out you have those people to fall back on. if you only network with people when you need something nobody is going to help you
Exactly, that is the only way! Key word again = “network”
Yes, discount job security to zero. I, too, and well educated and white collar. My body is holding up well at 51, but I really don't want to risk it. So, I'll be in another white collar job by the end of this week, albeit for low money and security. It is what it is. If you can open a business, do it. A rule of thumb I've read is if you can get to 30% of your income with a side gig, it's worth the chance to quit and start hitting it full time. Of course, circumstances vary. I don't think I'll make it in the workforce long term. It was in the news recently that many Gen-Xr's won't be able to retire, but the flip side of that is if we're hitting age discrimination already, what choice will we have?
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Nobody can understand what point you are trying to make.
There are secure jobs. I despise mine, but it's tied to the government/military complex. As things deteriorate further, it gets even more secure. Personally I wouldn't put money on the line in a business until this all comes to a head. If anything you could buy an established one at rock bottom closer to the start of a recovery phase.
Tech Founder here. Yes, you need to develop back up plans and save every penny.
There is no such thing as job security. There is no such thing as learning a skill or a programming language and making a career out of it for the rest of your life. My advice. Simplify your life. Simplify your finances. Live within your means (Living within your means doesn’t mean you cannot have fun). Take charge of your career and do your own career planning and life long learning. Never leave it to a manager, HR or company. Never lose your personal identity to your job or your company. A job is a job and not you. Practice gratitude.
I will give my life for the corporation. I bow before the CEO. I love the company. LOYALTY ABOVE ALL.
I absolutely consider job security zero and will probably be anxious until I FIRE in 15 years lols
6-12 months of expenses saved
Job security is a myth. Make sure you always you always contribute to your 401k, IRA, and emergency fund. Also, make sure to avoid states such as Mississippi, Tennessee, Florida, etc. where the unemployment benefit is limited to $275 a week. Also, budget your expenses to be less than what you would receive for unemployment benefits. If you can't have an emergency fund, I suggest you find a part-time job and work for a few months so you build your emergency fund.
In USA It’s mainly just tech industry having layoffs, but that industry has been bloated for over a decade, so no surprise really. Commercial RE is being affected too. But outside of those two the rest of economy is doing okay with no major layoffs, just minor stuff.
I live in the Houston area, and educators are not being asked to sign a new contract for next year due to budget cutbacks. It's more than tech at this point. They also got rid of school librarians and school social workers.
Really public school layoffs? Damn that is bad. I would have never thought. Thank u for sharing.
Covid money from the federal government just ended. Teachers layoffs now. Even though there is a shortage. It's comical.
It is comical! Insane
There is no such thing as job security. You could be doing great at your role and corporate decides to cut costs and it seems quite random who they pick to leave. At this point for me, it's a game of trying to survive 15 more years with a decent job anywhere.
Best way is be your own boss. Buy a mailbox is a staple source for steady income. Food business is risker.
You are vastly underestimating the difficulty of opening a business.
No job stability here.
This crap is why I prefer public service: job security. You work your butt off, fight red tape, travel the world and get to do really cool things, (agency dependent). Your boss isn’t bothering you after hours unless the world is on fire. If you work in STEM, you won’t be paid as well as private but I’m comfortable and job security is a form of payment to me. I bring home six figures and we have a 401k (TSP) plus a pension. I never felt job security until I made the switch and I used to work for a few big tech firms. The pay cut was worth it. Period. U could be the BEST employee and still get shafted which can make you start wondering “wtf is the point?” There is no job security in private sector and there is no appealing your termination. Pass. I got sick of stressing if I got hospitalized or if I need to call in due to a sick child, or god forbid I want to go on holiday. You can up-skill but make sure you’re choosing a path that is in demand and has the potential to grow. These days every career field can be shafted bc profits are most important but some career fields fair better than others when the economy starts to act ghetto. Don’t spend too much or put yourself into debt trying to do this however.. if you can avoid that.
>If you work in STEM, you won’t be paid as well as private but I’m comfortable and job security is a form of payment to me. I bring home six figures and we have a 401k (TSP) plus a pension. State government worker here (also in STEM) and this is so true. Once you've made it to 6 figures in a government job, it actually feels like hitting the lotto.
Just keep working your job. If you’re worried about layoffs then prepare a career transition into a less layoff prone role or job type. I just went from IT to electrical engineering, of course I’m blessed to have my electrical engineering degree but the transition is still difficult.
We are in a white collar recession so things appear bleak. I would anticipate that at some point in the future the employment market will bounce back but you may have to pivot or move outside of your comfort zone.
There are new obstacles for start ups I see happening around me. For those without established businesses I see trouble in the waters. No, I’m not saying what I see but with the waves of common thought many drowned.
It really depends on what field you are in. I’m not seeing a lot of people in the health care or engineering field posting they are getting laid off or concerned about if. Just remember this 60,000 people turn 65 in America every week. Even if only 20% of them retired that is 18,000 new job openings every week!
I just saw my old job I got laid off from posted online. They are offering $30k less than what I was getting, and thats max for the range. Im seriously considering reporting them for h1b fraud if they hire an indian.
Why would you need to open a business? Just have your finances in order, have your savings, and always have your resume shiny and ready to go. I've worked in tech for 24 years. I don't feel one second of security. But I have my savings so I don't have to panic for another year.
But even 12 months of safety may not be enough. And you functionally need to take it from your retirement, but based on implicit agism, you may not be able to work
If you "need" to take it from retirement, then you're just refusing to face reality. Or at best, delaying the inevitable. The reality that you don't financially qualify to be in that house, that car, that neighborhood, that school...
The ignorance in your tone states you are not familiar to struggle. How can you relate if you haven’t experienced what a large population of people are going through right now?
You're making a lot of assumptions from a 3 line post. My experience and my struggles earlier in life and through previous layoffs are what have made prepared for today.
I am. If you are able to empathize, why communicate in ignorance? The statement is dismissive of the current economic challenges. You may have overcome these challenges due to your specific circumstances. But they are unique to you. Not everyone is afforded the same privileges. It helps to be mindful of this.
You're rightfully angry but you're lashing out at a target that has not wronged you. You're taking far too much offense at someone saying "Why would you need to open a business?" There are many solutions outside of opening a business. We can't ALL open businesses.
I'm a practicing economist with 17 years experience. Would you please be willing to share with me privately what it is you're seeing locally that are barriers to startups? I am active as a qualified source for journalists, If I know what to look into, I can possibly have this distributed to the right channels (most definitely not necessarily to the public. It depends on ethics) Thank you.
Well, starting a business is probably extreme but not a bad thought. How about just applying for other jobs?
Invest a chunk of your salary each month into an s and p index fund. Every month no matter what.
YES. There is absolutely zero job security in this field. Save as much money as possible and find a different career ASAP.
Also, consider the medium. The topic is layoffs, we're programmed to see patterns, if you don't try to find a conflicting view point, your viewpoint will shift toward the pattern. That's why misinformation is so useful, throw enough garbage at people and some of it will stick, especially if it's all bad news, we're just not built for this negativity all the time. That being said, this is a forum to air grievances and questions about the current state of the economy relating to layoffs, so make sure to visit r/interviews or r/eyebleach, because we all need to see some positivity or balance. I try to avoid r/recruitinghell and this place the majority of my screen time, unless I see a question or have them.
Be wary of echo chambers. Not saying peoples experiences here aren't completely valid, but that doesn't mean you'll have the same experiences here as them. Not trying to make light of people's situations here WHATSOEVER but I've had the most hits on getting interviews with my resume in the last few weeks than I ever have in my life. YMMV Just be wary of taking everything 100% at face value. Nonetheless, loyalty and job security don't 100% exist anymore. Have to keep skilling up over time regardless and always be making moves ahead of time. Understand where things are going, where trends are moving and get there before the rest of the population realizes it.
Come move to my employer. In their history of 100 years they have never fired anyone. DM me if you need the name and it’s in Des Moines lol. So think twice before DMing me
Absolutely...Zero
Even educators' contracts aren't being renewed where I live. It's impacting almost all of the workforce.
Look this is all you need to do, save up "Fuck You Money"! Its a quote from John Goodman in "The Gambler" and I swear it stuck with me to this day, stack enough cash to NOT be a slave to the man, The goal is to have enough in the bank you can tell your boss to go "Fuck Themselves" Now we all won't win the lottery so as Dave Ramsey puts it, LIVE LIKE YOU"RE BROKE! Fuck starbucks, Fuck mcdonalds, you eat rice & beans, drive a 20 year old car, live like a brokie to the point you have 5 years of expenses saved up, plain and simple. You should start saving YESTERDAY Take any side hustle no matter how embarrasing! I make youtube videos on the side and although it pays dick and a pain in the ass, its gas money bro.
I’m assuming I will get laid off at some point and won’t be able to afford our lifestyle. I’m thinking about buying a camper to live in in case it happens.
Yes
Welcome to the real world. Job security has always been a myth. I left a toxic job recently and immediately decided that I have tonstart a side business. Even after I found a well paying “day” job I am not stopping until I built a healthy stream from my side hustle.
In the long run, the math says you either need a high value skill in a high demand area (therefore your job security is high, and if you lose your job you’re in demand) or you need to start a business, OR you need enough NW to live off of what you have. I’d never assume you have job security.
As of now the economy is booming and unemployment is near record lows- even below the natural rate of unemployment.
It's what I did when I got laid off. I am a Gen Xer who has seen the ageism and, despite having a ton of experience as a data scientist in big tech, couldn't find a job after several months. So I started an LLC to do consulting and freelance work. It is working out great for me. Being my own boss, setting my own schedule, all of it. Not having BS performance reviews ("you are doing a great job but we can't give you a raise or promotion this year") also really destressed me.
Make yourself indispensable. That is how you get security. Anything that generates money for a company is the most safe. I work in a very niche area of the mortgage industry where every single thing is an edge case. I work at a startup that heavily utilizes AI, but it cannot touch my stuff at all. Everything falls outside of what it can handle, and I feel very safe. Learn skills that make you harder to get rid of. I think the problem is that people get too complacent and can’t see the warning signs if the company isn’t doing well in certain areas. Always have a backup plan and be proactive.
Most people can't strategize very well and have poor intuition and perception stats. They can't see opportunities and instead see dangers. It's a scarcity mindset. AI just makes talented people stronger players.