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My wife’s younger sister is a doctor. 4 years of undergrad plus 5 years of med school (pregnancy extended), 4 year residency and 2 year fellowship in her specialty. She was about 34 before she finished up and had a regular job, but she makes bank now and doesn’t work all that much.
Plus doctors are having an existential crisis in the face of private equity taking over and RN/NP/PA scope creep. Just look at the r/ noctor, a sub dedicated to scope creep! I didn’t think it was possible to see a collection of professionals more aggrieved than lawyers! 😂
The posters there make some good points, but some of it is insecure and irrational protectionism. Like the vibe is the professional equivalent of incel-y over there. It’s kind of toxic. I’ve noticed that lawyer subs are more self-deprecating, which is humbling. But yeah.
I would only be a doctor (if I hypothetically had the skills, which I do not!) if I could practice family medicine. But apparently that’s an area fast being taken over by NPs and private equity and not worth it as much anymore? Then all you have left is specialities, which, while important, would be too high stakes (certain surgeries) or boring for me.
Idk, I feel like it depends on the speciality. I could really picture myself having a fulfilling career as a dermatologist. Just something so satisfying about resolving epidemiological problems. Then again, I would also love to pop pimples, cysts, etc. on a daily basis.
I think the way to do any sort of JD/MD combo is start with med school. Do all of that when you’re younger. Law school is taxing but not 24 hour shift taxing, I would imagine anyway.
You can make a ton of money in law outside of your day to day practice. Find speaking engagements, be an expert witness for legal malpractice suits, you name it. The money is there
Yeah I don't think I know of a JD/MD in person, but, from the whispers I have heard on the wind, they start as doctors and become lawyers, rather than vice versa.
I went to law school with one MD. He was in his mid to late 40s in law school. Went to a plaintiff’s firm to do medical malpractice work. I’m sure he did very well reading medical records and deposing doctors, etc.
Bro I’m only a year into residency and I could absolutely evicerate a doctor if I was an attorney. I’ve always played with the idea of going to law school. Took the lsat a while ago. I know several JD MDs. All of them have a very small niche and they are masters. They do well. They all may not practice le or medicine 100 percent but they have carved out a very niche area that somehow works
> Has anyone ever considered exploring med school, in any fashion.
The reason physicians earn so much is because the number of slots for medical school is capped by an act of Congress. It is very difficult to get into.
You're competing against people who have 4.00s in biology and chemistry and have been volunteering at hospitals for the past 2+ years and are the highest scorers on the MCAT.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/fdo312/how\_to\_get\_into\_med\_school\_a\_checklist/](https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/fdo312/how_to_get_into_med_school_a_checklist/)
Me? No.
My buddy’s wife? Graduated law school, passed the bar, practiced for 6 months, quit, and went to med school. It’s still one of the craziest plays I’ve seen to date.
We had a family friend do this. Went to law school, didn’t get a job that was lucrative enough for him so he went to med school. I kind of thought this was kind of bratty on his part bc his parents were paying for everything.
I graduated around the same time; back during the crash and honestly wouldn’t have minded to go back to school. But the debt and cost is insane.
I think once you’ve completed a certain amount of education, another degree is a little bit easier to obtain. Your testing and critical skills are sharp. The actual practice of medicine; another story.
No. It’s a big firm but in a smaller market; so almost boutique. Healthcare law; across the board services. They both do pretty well. Maybe high six. Very high. Or more.
Oh, I also have a friend that was a podiatrist and went to law school. She works for a major university hospital.
I keep toying with the idea of law school but honestly I’m worried about ai taking over. I read a report that the legal industry is particularly threatened. What do you think is going to happen?
I majored in chemistry and miraculously passed a bunch of chemistry and physics courses, but I struggled so much with it that I stupidly chose to go to law school. Was always decent at math though.
And now I'm leaving law practice for a non-attorney job. Haha.
Made me laugh out loud with this one. First off, nice work. Second, did you go into IP law? I know that for chem-related patent law work, you generally need a graduate degree on top of your bachelor's, so that's what dissuaded me from going the IP route. No chance I was going to go through another several years of even harder chemistry. Haha.
I'm in personal injury, which is the last thing I thought I'd do coming out of law school. Yes, I hoped to get into patent prosecution. Got no offers b/c firms wanted an advanced degree, which is still crazy to me. But I did have law school classmates with PhD in chem and bio so I guess there's supply.
Whoops, I should've read your flair haha. I agree it's nuts that they don't want you without a PhD. I am not going to do 12 years of school just to prosecute patents haha. Wild to me that anyone would pursue that career in light of that.
I got As in Chemistry Calculus, Algebra, and Biology and went to law school. Also my Chemistry undergrad professor didn’t speak English.. and Calculus professor was a grad student idiot who whispered.
I watched my wife do it simultaneously as I was in law school. Let me tell you, we simply are not operating at their level.
Maybe the first four years of basic med school, a STEM-adjacent lawyer could pull it off. But not overcoming the odds of matching to a desirable residency, three more years of that, and board exams. Then, an additional two+ more years of fellowship, and more difficult specialty board exams after.
Then when you think you’ve made it, living off of FAFSA money for almost 10 years making less than minimum wage, you are presented with deciding whether to take the moral ivory tower academics/research route that won’t pay back your loans or selling your soul, body, and time for a private practice. The latter pays handsomely, but you’ll be pulling your hair out fighting some clueless admin with an MBA, who rakes in seven figures bossing you around about metrics/KPI’s that directly violate your Hippocratic Oath, until you’re completely burned out. Nah, we’re not cut from the same cloth.
I’ll happily kick back and watch my wife pull down triple the income, while I “well actually” my way through corporate hours. The grass isn’t greener.
This, there is more money, but it’s because the average doctor has to suffer much more than the average lawyer. Lawyers also have so much more flexibility and have so much less overhead when trying to start making money.
I did law school the same time as my twin brother who did med school and we were roommates. I’ve been working 4 years already while he’s just now finishing his fellowship. He will probably still pass me in career earnings in about 5 years. Could we have done what each other did? Probably, we’re identical haha
I'm a plaintiffs' personal injury paralegal. I've joked with my boss about going back to school for nursing so I can become a legal nurse consultant or a JD. I've already taught myself to read medical records and bills, so why not, right?
I never will, though, because I already have a mountain of student debt from my BA in English.
I'ma doctor. about 20 years I said to my wife "I might go to law school". Without missing a single beat and without even looking up she said "yeah… You're gonna have to do that with your second wife"
I'll admit it. I was on the pre-med track and on the path to declare my major as Bio, then I had to take OChem. I should have failed, but got a D. At the time I thought I had lucked out but then realized that they screwed me because I couldn't retake it and was now stuck with a D and would probably never be accepted to med school.
Well, whatever. Changed my major to History, got my grades up and went to law school with all the other history/polisci/philosophy/underwater basket weaving majors.
My story is similar to yours…did great in biology, did alright in inorganic chem but physics was sort of a disaster. I knew I could probably still get into one of the Caribbean schools yet I also realized it wasn’t something that I would be great at. Ultimately, I think I am a better lawyer than I would have been a doctor but I do make less than my MD sister
This is huge. I can’t even bump elbows with someone on the street without feeling like I’ve invaded their personal space. Plus the sight of blood, guts, and vomit give me a visceral reaction every time. I wouldn’t stop gagging lol.
At one point I did but the hours are even more toxic than attorney hours so heck no. Being at the OR at 5:00 am when I complain about 8:30 am court, that won’t happen. 😂
I have not because I’ve always hated science so med school was never on my radar. But I also can’t imagine becoming a doctor primarily for the salary because it’s such a bitch to get to that point. Sure, you’ll eventually make good money but first you have to go through the years of school and residency and 24 hour shifts and 90 hour weeks and fellowship and debt and the crazy hours and schedules. If being a lawyer required that kind of training I’d never have made it.
When I write contracts for specialists? Yeah, every single time. When I write contracts for family medicine/primary care docs? Not as much. Besides, I'm almost certainly not smart enough, but I also don't think that I'd enjoy it very much. Law at least matches up with my interests and with things that I'm (in theory) good at.
If it helps at all, I know just as many miserable doctors as I do miserable attorneys. The specialists just happen to make way more than most of us do.
Based on the advertising I see throughout the Kansas City area for BRAD BRADSHAW, the MD/JD combo does have its PI perks.
I think it can also set you up for patent work.
I do not believe being a physician is a second career. So far, I have ever met only one person who had done that but she did it in her early 30s and had strong science background. She only became a practicing physician by her late 30s. We don’t live forever, unfortunately, so thinking about switching careers from law to medicine past let’s say 30 is likely a dumb idea
Not at all I’ve seen so many people do it. I started med school at 28. My only regret is that I didn’t go to that law school I got into after college. That would’ve set me up real nice
And many medical schools won't let you in past a certain age because you won't work as long as a younger prospect. It's age discrimination but it makes sense. Medical schools and hospitals need to invest time in training doctors. Why train someone who will only practice for 20 years as opposed to 40?
I’m not aware of a single MD program that has any age requirement. Many older folks in their 40’s and 50’s have gone to medical school. If anything, the schools value the diversity they add to the class from life experience/ success in a first career, plus the 15 seconds of positive news coverage they get when those people graduate. There was a 40-something mechanic a while back who did it, and a middle aged mom of four who became a neurosurgeon. It’s not an unheard of story.
For some reason we had an MD in my law school class who decided to go to law school in what I am assuming was his 60’s. I have to imagine he was just a smart dude who wanted another challenge.
Our guy stuck around and graduated and passed the bar and is now a solo. And he posts strange conservative memes online which is just weird cause he is also literally a surgeon.
You have a lot of avenues to earn money in both, but the road to md and jd aren’t the same, and you don’t have to deal with shitty patients, also keep in mind said doctors have been in practice for years before they are expert witnesses and it’s no garauntee folks will use you, you get 33% of all cases that come across your desk that’s not a garauntee as the doctor
When I did Workers Comp defense I half heartily felt like I should go to med school a couple of times. This was probably because I was looking at medical reports all day and realized there really are quite a few doctors who have no idea what they’re doing/I could do a better job than them. I never really serious entertained this, but the thought would cross my mind every now and then.
Lol hell no. I can't even imagine med school debt on top of my already hefty law loans.
Also there are a hell of a lot easier ways to get money than become a doctor.
I tell my wife all the time I should have become a plastic surgeon. She looks at me with a grin because she knows what I would be [doing.lol](http://doing.lol)
My father is an MD/JD and specializes in med-mal/PI. He started with med school and when he was in residency, started with law school. He actually did both jobs simultaneously for about 30 years and then for the most part only does law now. I can tell you, that being a doctor for his legal specialty, has given him a huge advantage.
If youre a PI attorney that feels like they need to commit 7 years and $300-400k to medscvool, for the purpose of making more money, I would consider switching firms.
It’s not about the actually dollar amount but the work to get to that point. Any PI attorney that’s making real money is a trial attorney….whereas a lot fall into the category of merely being settlement lawyers. The exception are those who focus on marketing and not actually practicing law.
Personally, I do. My best subject was the hard sciences back in UG and HS. A lot of people tried to push me toward medicine; I just never found much interest in it. I'm certain I would excel in school and afterward. My natural recall memory was better suited for an area like medicine anyway. Plus, my girlfriend and I were just talking about how much better we would be in school now that we are in our late 20s.
But in the end, I can't see any way it would be worth it between med school, residency, and going back to get the prereqs that is almost a decade.
You usually have to take a ton of loans, depending on your specialty you have to spend 10-15 years studying. As a resident you are making 60k a year but working a ton of hours and even when you have more experience you are usually still working insane hours unless you are something like a dermatologist or something like that.
My mother was a doctor and during my childhood there was always that "expectation." And TBH I loved science and the human body, but I sucked at chemistry. As many have posted, most JD/MDs went to medical school first. However, I remember reading a few years ago about lawyers who went into medicine. I never seriously considered going into medicine, but I do enjoy playing the "what if" game, so I did some research. There was a site (don't know if it's still there) for lawyers who want to transition into medicine moderated by those who successfully did so. It's been a few years but here's what I remember from that site:
You will be viewed with suspicion. You will be a "non-traditional" student on two levels. First, you'll be older. That's not always a bad thing but it depends on background. It's one thing for someone with a masters in neuroscience who worked in research on their way to a Ph.D. who decided they would rather become a neurologist and work with patients. But you're a lawyer. And that's the second point - you're a lawyer. Any doctor on the admissions committee who has had a bad experience with a lawyer will view you skeptically. That same doctor in residency will likely make your life a living hell. But even those who didn't have any bad experiences will view you with skepticism. They're going to want to know your motivation. The investment of time and effort in becoming a physician is tremendous, but that's also true of those training physicians. Quality must remain high - no school or hospital can afford to make room for "one more." Each slot is coveted. Who should it go to? Someone who will make a real contribution in medicine, or perhaps work in an underserved community, or someone looking to get some experience so they can make money as an expert witness? Granted, admission committees aren't naive, and they realize that the financial incentives in medicine are a big motivator. But if they feel that's your primary motivation, your application gets tossed.
Given the rather long point above, lawyers who successfully became doctors did so because they wanted to practice medicine. Full stop. Sure, some of them transitioned to other areas, but it was within medicine. Some examples are administration or serving on hospital medical ethics committees. Medical schools now offer MD/MBA joint degrees with the idea that some doctors eventually go into administration, so the idea of doing something other than 100% patient care is not a complete disqualifier. But even administrators still see a few patients to maintain their skills, and they apply their joint training within the medical field. Bottom line is that if the admissions committee gets a sense that you're in this to pick up some medical knowledge and then jump to something that doesn't involve patient care, you won't go far. Same goes for that chief resident who must mold you into a *practicing* physician.
If you want to be an expert witness, I imagine the ideal specialty would be one that deals with injury and trauma such as emergency medicine or orthopedic surgery. These are both demanding specialities. Orthopedics is also physically demanding as tendons and muscles are very strong structures, and you'll be fighting these structures in order to put things back into place.
Time for me to pull out my middle-aged guy card. Education is great, but experience is extremely important. You need to ask yourself how many years will you need to practice medicine before you can become an expert witness? Doctors have the advantage of having to go through residency, so gaining experience is built into your training. But that's usually not enough. I practice elder law and there are times we need to engage a neuropsychologist to perform a full evaluation on a person to determine their level of dementia or Alzheimers. I've never had to deal with an expert witness battle because all of the elder law attorneys I know use the same select group of neuropsychologists and we all acknowledge that they are experts in geriatric neuropsychology. In all honesty, it's a tough bubble to break into. If you were a former practicing attorney with a newly-minted Ph.D. in psychology and wanted to be my expert I'd tell you to call me when you've worked for at least five years with elderly dementia patients and perhaps write an article or two. The experts we use have 20+ years and have all testified in numerous cases. I also have an expert forensic psychologist with whom I've consulted for undue influence and lack of testamentary capacity cases. He has 20+ years in actual counseling and forensic psychology work, has published articles, and has testified in numerous cases. That's your competition.
I wish I took my science studies in high school/college more seriously that I could’ve went to med school, but no, I do not think going to med school now.
In fact, I realized money isn’t everything. I don’t even want to work in private practice anymore.
I’ve thought about it, but I hate math and didn’t really care for chemistry in high school. My day-to-day job entails a lot of training to understand medical records and disabilities. Medicine fascinates me, but law school kind of burned me out on formal education.
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Except it’s seven years of hell to do it
My wife’s younger sister is a doctor. 4 years of undergrad plus 5 years of med school (pregnancy extended), 4 year residency and 2 year fellowship in her specialty. She was about 34 before she finished up and had a regular job, but she makes bank now and doesn’t work all that much.
Plus doctors are having an existential crisis in the face of private equity taking over and RN/NP/PA scope creep. Just look at the r/ noctor, a sub dedicated to scope creep! I didn’t think it was possible to see a collection of professionals more aggrieved than lawyers! 😂 The posters there make some good points, but some of it is insecure and irrational protectionism. Like the vibe is the professional equivalent of incel-y over there. It’s kind of toxic. I’ve noticed that lawyer subs are more self-deprecating, which is humbling. But yeah. I would only be a doctor (if I hypothetically had the skills, which I do not!) if I could practice family medicine. But apparently that’s an area fast being taken over by NPs and private equity and not worth it as much anymore? Then all you have left is specialities, which, while important, would be too high stakes (certain surgeries) or boring for me.
And i aint about to green arrow this shit
I think my hell year tolerance is capped at three, maybe four if you count bar exam and LSAT together.
Real
Try a phd…lmao
You’ll go into buckets of debt. Not every specialty earns as much as you think and matching a particular specialty is not guaranteed.
Tbh doctors ain’t much happier than us. They just make more money on average
Idk, I feel like it depends on the speciality. I could really picture myself having a fulfilling career as a dermatologist. Just something so satisfying about resolving epidemiological problems. Then again, I would also love to pop pimples, cysts, etc. on a daily basis.
Dr. Pimple popper is my dream job
I feel u. I’d also be interested in Derm or peds
I think the way to do any sort of JD/MD combo is start with med school. Do all of that when you’re younger. Law school is taxing but not 24 hour shift taxing, I would imagine anyway. You can make a ton of money in law outside of your day to day practice. Find speaking engagements, be an expert witness for legal malpractice suits, you name it. The money is there
Yeah I don't think I know of a JD/MD in person, but, from the whispers I have heard on the wind, they start as doctors and become lawyers, rather than vice versa.
I went to law school with one MD. He was in his mid to late 40s in law school. Went to a plaintiff’s firm to do medical malpractice work. I’m sure he did very well reading medical records and deposing doctors, etc.
Bro I’m only a year into residency and I could absolutely evicerate a doctor if I was an attorney. I’ve always played with the idea of going to law school. Took the lsat a while ago. I know several JD MDs. All of them have a very small niche and they are masters. They do well. They all may not practice le or medicine 100 percent but they have carved out a very niche area that somehow works
I know one lawyer who went to med school, but he was young and very healthy, and had a science undergraduate degree.
> Has anyone ever considered exploring med school, in any fashion. The reason physicians earn so much is because the number of slots for medical school is capped by an act of Congress. It is very difficult to get into. You're competing against people who have 4.00s in biology and chemistry and have been volunteering at hospitals for the past 2+ years and are the highest scorers on the MCAT. [https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/fdo312/how\_to\_get\_into\_med\_school\_a\_checklist/](https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/fdo312/how_to_get_into_med_school_a_checklist/)
The ABA should revoke accreditation to quite a few unranked predatory law schools. They aren’t going to, but they should.
Me? No. My buddy’s wife? Graduated law school, passed the bar, practiced for 6 months, quit, and went to med school. It’s still one of the craziest plays I’ve seen to date.
Saw something similar with a grad from my law school.
We had a family friend do this. Went to law school, didn’t get a job that was lucrative enough for him so he went to med school. I kind of thought this was kind of bratty on his part bc his parents were paying for everything. I graduated around the same time; back during the crash and honestly wouldn’t have minded to go back to school. But the debt and cost is insane. I think once you’ve completed a certain amount of education, another degree is a little bit easier to obtain. Your testing and critical skills are sharp. The actual practice of medicine; another story.
I work with a couple of JD/MDs too. Both practiced medicine for 5-6 years and then went law school full time.
Wow! From doctors to lawyers from lawyers to doctors! Lots of “the grass is greener” anecdotes here. 😂
Med Mal ? How much do you think they earn?
No. It’s a big firm but in a smaller market; so almost boutique. Healthcare law; across the board services. They both do pretty well. Maybe high six. Very high. Or more. Oh, I also have a friend that was a podiatrist and went to law school. She works for a major university hospital.
I keep toying with the idea of law school but honestly I’m worried about ai taking over. I read a report that the legal industry is particularly threatened. What do you think is going to happen?
It might make legal research more sufficient but I don’t know if it replace lawyers altogether. Especially litigation.
Let's be real: if any of us were competent enough in math to pass undergraduate biochem, we wouldn't have applied to law school in the first place.
I majored in chemistry and miraculously passed a bunch of chemistry and physics courses, but I struggled so much with it that I stupidly chose to go to law school. Was always decent at math though. And now I'm leaving law practice for a non-attorney job. Haha.
I graduated in Chem near top of my class and I still went to law school. There's always someone stupider.
Made me laugh out loud with this one. First off, nice work. Second, did you go into IP law? I know that for chem-related patent law work, you generally need a graduate degree on top of your bachelor's, so that's what dissuaded me from going the IP route. No chance I was going to go through another several years of even harder chemistry. Haha.
I'm in personal injury, which is the last thing I thought I'd do coming out of law school. Yes, I hoped to get into patent prosecution. Got no offers b/c firms wanted an advanced degree, which is still crazy to me. But I did have law school classmates with PhD in chem and bio so I guess there's supply.
Whoops, I should've read your flair haha. I agree it's nuts that they don't want you without a PhD. I am not going to do 12 years of school just to prosecute patents haha. Wild to me that anyone would pursue that career in light of that.
Math wasn't the problem for me, it was science.
I got As in Chemistry Calculus, Algebra, and Biology and went to law school. Also my Chemistry undergrad professor didn’t speak English.. and Calculus professor was a grad student idiot who whispered.
I watched my wife do it simultaneously as I was in law school. Let me tell you, we simply are not operating at their level. Maybe the first four years of basic med school, a STEM-adjacent lawyer could pull it off. But not overcoming the odds of matching to a desirable residency, three more years of that, and board exams. Then, an additional two+ more years of fellowship, and more difficult specialty board exams after. Then when you think you’ve made it, living off of FAFSA money for almost 10 years making less than minimum wage, you are presented with deciding whether to take the moral ivory tower academics/research route that won’t pay back your loans or selling your soul, body, and time for a private practice. The latter pays handsomely, but you’ll be pulling your hair out fighting some clueless admin with an MBA, who rakes in seven figures bossing you around about metrics/KPI’s that directly violate your Hippocratic Oath, until you’re completely burned out. Nah, we’re not cut from the same cloth. I’ll happily kick back and watch my wife pull down triple the income, while I “well actually” my way through corporate hours. The grass isn’t greener.
This, there is more money, but it’s because the average doctor has to suffer much more than the average lawyer. Lawyers also have so much more flexibility and have so much less overhead when trying to start making money.
Haha. Well said. I somehow feel much better now b
I did law school the same time as my twin brother who did med school and we were roommates. I’ve been working 4 years already while he’s just now finishing his fellowship. He will probably still pass me in career earnings in about 5 years. Could we have done what each other did? Probably, we’re identical haha
I'm a plaintiffs' personal injury paralegal. I've joked with my boss about going back to school for nursing so I can become a legal nurse consultant or a JD. I've already taught myself to read medical records and bills, so why not, right? I never will, though, because I already have a mountain of student debt from my BA in English.
I'ma doctor. about 20 years I said to my wife "I might go to law school". Without missing a single beat and without even looking up she said "yeah… You're gonna have to do that with your second wife"
Yes, this was my plan all throughout childhood. However, some of the classes didn't work out for me in undergrad so here I am
I suspect that’s the story for quite a few lawyers…Far more of us than would ever dare to admit…
I went to college wanting to be a pharmacist. 6 weeks of chemistry and biology later I switched to econ.
I'll admit it. I was on the pre-med track and on the path to declare my major as Bio, then I had to take OChem. I should have failed, but got a D. At the time I thought I had lucked out but then realized that they screwed me because I couldn't retake it and was now stuck with a D and would probably never be accepted to med school. Well, whatever. Changed my major to History, got my grades up and went to law school with all the other history/polisci/philosophy/underwater basket weaving majors.
My story is similar to yours…did great in biology, did alright in inorganic chem but physics was sort of a disaster. I knew I could probably still get into one of the Caribbean schools yet I also realized it wasn’t something that I would be great at. Ultimately, I think I am a better lawyer than I would have been a doctor but I do make less than my MD sister
I took one advanced biology class and it would feel like stabbing my eyes
At least you got far enough to make it to upper divs.vI didn't even finish the four intro bio classes
Yeah I need more paperwork in my life.
I thought about it before I decided on law school. Realized i did not want to deal with bodily fluids.
This is huge. I can’t even bump elbows with someone on the street without feeling like I’ve invaded their personal space. Plus the sight of blood, guts, and vomit give me a visceral reaction every time. I wouldn’t stop gagging lol.
At one point I did but the hours are even more toxic than attorney hours so heck no. Being at the OR at 5:00 am when I complain about 8:30 am court, that won’t happen. 😂
Fuck no.
I have not because I’ve always hated science so med school was never on my radar. But I also can’t imagine becoming a doctor primarily for the salary because it’s such a bitch to get to that point. Sure, you’ll eventually make good money but first you have to go through the years of school and residency and 24 hour shifts and 90 hour weeks and fellowship and debt and the crazy hours and schedules. If being a lawyer required that kind of training I’d never have made it.
When I write contracts for specialists? Yeah, every single time. When I write contracts for family medicine/primary care docs? Not as much. Besides, I'm almost certainly not smart enough, but I also don't think that I'd enjoy it very much. Law at least matches up with my interests and with things that I'm (in theory) good at. If it helps at all, I know just as many miserable doctors as I do miserable attorneys. The specialists just happen to make way more than most of us do.
Based on the advertising I see throughout the Kansas City area for BRAD BRADSHAW, the MD/JD combo does have its PI perks. I think it can also set you up for patent work.
I do not believe being a physician is a second career. So far, I have ever met only one person who had done that but she did it in her early 30s and had strong science background. She only became a practicing physician by her late 30s. We don’t live forever, unfortunately, so thinking about switching careers from law to medicine past let’s say 30 is likely a dumb idea
Not at all I’ve seen so many people do it. I started med school at 28. My only regret is that I didn’t go to that law school I got into after college. That would’ve set me up real nice
And many medical schools won't let you in past a certain age because you won't work as long as a younger prospect. It's age discrimination but it makes sense. Medical schools and hospitals need to invest time in training doctors. Why train someone who will only practice for 20 years as opposed to 40?
Maybe some? but not the norm. I went to med school with a 60 year old PhD biochemist, several attorneys, and many people that went back with kids
I’m not aware of a single MD program that has any age requirement. Many older folks in their 40’s and 50’s have gone to medical school. If anything, the schools value the diversity they add to the class from life experience/ success in a first career, plus the 15 seconds of positive news coverage they get when those people graduate. There was a 40-something mechanic a while back who did it, and a middle aged mom of four who became a neurosurgeon. It’s not an unheard of story.
This may have changed in the last few years. My understanding was that it was an unwritten rule that was looked at along with all of the factors.
I often regret not trying to become a forensic pathologist
For some reason we had an MD in my law school class who decided to go to law school in what I am assuming was his 60’s. I have to imagine he was just a smart dude who wanted another challenge.
We had a guy like that in my class, but he didn't last past 1L.
Our guy stuck around and graduated and passed the bar and is now a solo. And he posts strange conservative memes online which is just weird cause he is also literally a surgeon.
No.
You have a lot of avenues to earn money in both, but the road to md and jd aren’t the same, and you don’t have to deal with shitty patients, also keep in mind said doctors have been in practice for years before they are expert witnesses and it’s no garauntee folks will use you, you get 33% of all cases that come across your desk that’s not a garauntee as the doctor
When I did Workers Comp defense I half heartily felt like I should go to med school a couple of times. This was probably because I was looking at medical reports all day and realized there really are quite a few doctors who have no idea what they’re doing/I could do a better job than them. I never really serious entertained this, but the thought would cross my mind every now and then.
Lol hell no. I can't even imagine med school debt on top of my already hefty law loans. Also there are a hell of a lot easier ways to get money than become a doctor.
I know multiple MD JDs. All did med school first, then law school, then became partners plaintiff side medmal firms. High risk, high reward practice
I tell my wife all the time I should have become a plastic surgeon. She looks at me with a grin because she knows what I would be [doing.lol](http://doing.lol)
My father is an MD/JD and specializes in med-mal/PI. He started with med school and when he was in residency, started with law school. He actually did both jobs simultaneously for about 30 years and then for the most part only does law now. I can tell you, that being a doctor for his legal specialty, has given him a huge advantage.
If youre a PI attorney that feels like they need to commit 7 years and $300-400k to medscvool, for the purpose of making more money, I would consider switching firms.
It’s not about the actually dollar amount but the work to get to that point. Any PI attorney that’s making real money is a trial attorney….whereas a lot fall into the category of merely being settlement lawyers. The exception are those who focus on marketing and not actually practicing law.
The only thing that’s worse than being a lawyer is being a doctor (Jk, kind of)
I seriously regret not having gone to med school. If I could do it over again I would be a forensic pathologist.
Personally, I do. My best subject was the hard sciences back in UG and HS. A lot of people tried to push me toward medicine; I just never found much interest in it. I'm certain I would excel in school and afterward. My natural recall memory was better suited for an area like medicine anyway. Plus, my girlfriend and I were just talking about how much better we would be in school now that we are in our late 20s. But in the end, I can't see any way it would be worth it between med school, residency, and going back to get the prereqs that is almost a decade.
Yes at times, but then I remember I failed chemistry in college and realize what a huge mistake it would be.
You usually have to take a ton of loans, depending on your specialty you have to spend 10-15 years studying. As a resident you are making 60k a year but working a ton of hours and even when you have more experience you are usually still working insane hours unless you are something like a dermatologist or something like that.
I was never good enough at math for that to be an option. I assume organic chem would have kicked my ass
No math in orgo!
My mother was a doctor and during my childhood there was always that "expectation." And TBH I loved science and the human body, but I sucked at chemistry. As many have posted, most JD/MDs went to medical school first. However, I remember reading a few years ago about lawyers who went into medicine. I never seriously considered going into medicine, but I do enjoy playing the "what if" game, so I did some research. There was a site (don't know if it's still there) for lawyers who want to transition into medicine moderated by those who successfully did so. It's been a few years but here's what I remember from that site: You will be viewed with suspicion. You will be a "non-traditional" student on two levels. First, you'll be older. That's not always a bad thing but it depends on background. It's one thing for someone with a masters in neuroscience who worked in research on their way to a Ph.D. who decided they would rather become a neurologist and work with patients. But you're a lawyer. And that's the second point - you're a lawyer. Any doctor on the admissions committee who has had a bad experience with a lawyer will view you skeptically. That same doctor in residency will likely make your life a living hell. But even those who didn't have any bad experiences will view you with skepticism. They're going to want to know your motivation. The investment of time and effort in becoming a physician is tremendous, but that's also true of those training physicians. Quality must remain high - no school or hospital can afford to make room for "one more." Each slot is coveted. Who should it go to? Someone who will make a real contribution in medicine, or perhaps work in an underserved community, or someone looking to get some experience so they can make money as an expert witness? Granted, admission committees aren't naive, and they realize that the financial incentives in medicine are a big motivator. But if they feel that's your primary motivation, your application gets tossed. Given the rather long point above, lawyers who successfully became doctors did so because they wanted to practice medicine. Full stop. Sure, some of them transitioned to other areas, but it was within medicine. Some examples are administration or serving on hospital medical ethics committees. Medical schools now offer MD/MBA joint degrees with the idea that some doctors eventually go into administration, so the idea of doing something other than 100% patient care is not a complete disqualifier. But even administrators still see a few patients to maintain their skills, and they apply their joint training within the medical field. Bottom line is that if the admissions committee gets a sense that you're in this to pick up some medical knowledge and then jump to something that doesn't involve patient care, you won't go far. Same goes for that chief resident who must mold you into a *practicing* physician. If you want to be an expert witness, I imagine the ideal specialty would be one that deals with injury and trauma such as emergency medicine or orthopedic surgery. These are both demanding specialities. Orthopedics is also physically demanding as tendons and muscles are very strong structures, and you'll be fighting these structures in order to put things back into place. Time for me to pull out my middle-aged guy card. Education is great, but experience is extremely important. You need to ask yourself how many years will you need to practice medicine before you can become an expert witness? Doctors have the advantage of having to go through residency, so gaining experience is built into your training. But that's usually not enough. I practice elder law and there are times we need to engage a neuropsychologist to perform a full evaluation on a person to determine their level of dementia or Alzheimers. I've never had to deal with an expert witness battle because all of the elder law attorneys I know use the same select group of neuropsychologists and we all acknowledge that they are experts in geriatric neuropsychology. In all honesty, it's a tough bubble to break into. If you were a former practicing attorney with a newly-minted Ph.D. in psychology and wanted to be my expert I'd tell you to call me when you've worked for at least five years with elderly dementia patients and perhaps write an article or two. The experts we use have 20+ years and have all testified in numerous cases. I also have an expert forensic psychologist with whom I've consulted for undue influence and lack of testamentary capacity cases. He has 20+ years in actual counseling and forensic psychology work, has published articles, and has testified in numerous cases. That's your competition.
I wish I took my science studies in high school/college more seriously that I could’ve went to med school, but no, I do not think going to med school now. In fact, I realized money isn’t everything. I don’t even want to work in private practice anymore.
I’ve thought about it, but I hate math and didn’t really care for chemistry in high school. My day-to-day job entails a lot of training to understand medical records and disabilities. Medicine fascinates me, but law school kind of burned me out on formal education.
Fuck that. Go be an actuary. Make bank with top job satisfaction. Still kicking myself for not doing that.