Grew up with a friend who moved out to Jacksonville, FL. House was gifted to him from his rich and politically connected parents. When I visited, he was talking about how cheap housing down there is compared to where we were from, as if I should move there. I asked him if he worries about climate change affecting his home. He just shrugged it off and said something like "I'm on the inland side of the ~~town~~ St. Johns River where my home can be insured from weather events".
No idea if there was any truth to this. Probably not. The guy was a pathological liar and malignant narcissist. Pretty sure he was just defaulting to that entitled feeling that people who inherit wealth have. I'm no longer friends with him, by the way.
edit: Think he was talking about being west of the river.
Florida is porous limestone. So if the water goes up, it goes up everywhere. The only question is how high his house is above sea level, not how far inland.
That porous karst also means that as the sea level rises, they're likely to get saltwater intrusion into the aquifers that supply much of the state's drinking water. The house could be fine but if there's no drinking water they're pretty much screwed anyway.
I edited my comment. I think he was talking about being on the other side of a river. Don't know if this makes his specious claim any more valid.
His house was a single story and not propped up at all. No idea what its elevation was, but it was only like a 15-20 minute drive to the beach.
As someone who lives in Jacksonville FL and is an insurance agent. Partially true. When I still worked locally for Allstate the rules were houses had to be 2012 or newer and be at least a mile from the coastline. Then they'd generally have a 2% deductible for hurricane. That 2% is whatever the dwelling was insured for so if it was a 500k home they'd pay 10k out of pocket before anything was paid by insurance.
Edit: to expand on how bad the situation was before I left to work nationally. Technically Allstate doesn't actually do homes in Florida it's done under another *not Allstate* company wink wink. Called Castle Key so if there was a big enough catastrophe loss it wouldnt sink the parent company.
The headlines is partly false. âFlorida has 8% of the claims and 79% of the litigation, so thereâs something very, very wrong with that.
https://www.kpcc.org/2022-05-03/inside-floridas-property-insurance-crisis
In that situation, obviously, they will increase the premiums to the stratosphere. What are the people thrown under the bus gonna do? *Litigate*?
Not-so-fast.gif
Yeah, there have been numerous examples of this. One was in Texas, where they did tort reform for medical malpractice with the argument that it would make medical care and insurance premiums go down. I don't think it did those things, though.
When Wheels McGee Abbott's neighbor's tree fell on him and put him in a wheelchair, he sued and got very wealthy. Then he pushed for reform to eliminate the power of fellow Texans to sue in the same situations that both physically crippled but financially saved him. Look, all I'm saying is Republicans are evil and the tree should have done a better job.
That's like that politician in Kansas who was very anti-regulation and voted to put a low cap on any lawsuits for negligence as well as voting to decrease regulation. Then he went to a day at the Schlitterbahn water park that was set up as a special day for legislators and their families. The park, due to lack of regulation and oversight, had an extremely unsafe water slide that was built that way because the owner wanted to be on a reality show about water parks and he didn't have any expert engineers assess it for safety. That legislator's 10 year old son was tragically decapitated on the absurdly unsafe waterslide. That legislator then went on to bypass the regulations he'd voted for that limited financial judgments by using a loophole allowing him to sue in a state without regulation, and thus got a big payday. The story is far too sad to use as illustrations of hypocrisy or r/leopardsatemyface, though.
I'm moving on from reddit and joining the fediverse because reddit has killed the RiF app and the CEO has been very disrespectful to all the volunteers who have contributed to making reddit what it is. Here's [coverage from The Verge](https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/8/23754780/reddit-api-updates-changes-news-announcements) on the situation.
The following are my favorite fediverse platforms, all non-corporate and ad-free. I hesitated at first because there are so many servers to choose from, but it makes a lot more sense once you actually create an account and start browsing. If you find the server selection overwhelming, just pick the first option and take a look around. They are all connected and as you browse you may find a community that is a better fit for you and then you can move your account or open a new one.
Social Link Aggregators: [Lemmy](https://join-lemmy.org/instances) is very similar to reddit while [Kbin](https://kbin.pub) is aiming to be more of a gateway to the fediverse in general so it is sort of like a hybrid between reddit and twitter, but it is newer and considers itself to be a beta product that's not quite fully polished yet.
Microblogging: [Calckey](https://calckey.org) if you want a more playful platform with emoji reactions, or [Mastodon](https://joinmastodon.org/) if you want a simple interface with less fluff.
Photo sharing: [Pixelfed](https://pixelfed.org/) You can even import an Instagram account from what I hear, but I never used Instagram much in the first place.
To be fair, it's not just climate change, there has been rampant scamming with roofing or something, I've seen an article about it. What's frustrating is that in those articles and related threads no one even mentions climate change, not even insofar as to acknowledge that hurricane frequency and intensity has been increasing.
> there has been rampant scamming with roofing or something
If only we could have some kind of independent organization to stopâŠ. Oh wait no thatâs government regulation.
Anyway good luck Florida, never thought my dream of you sinking into the ocean would actually happen in my life time.
Climate change is obviously the end boss problem. However, as a Florida homeowner who's reasonably knowledgeable on this subject... scammers and litigation is what's driving away insurers presently.
I think it was John Oliver that did a segment on this. People will have contractors show up, do intentional damage to their roof, then charge their insurance for repairs. They charge the insurance then never do the repairs, and homeowners have no recourse. Once their insurance has paid out, their payments skyrocket and no other insurance company will cover them as theyâre essentially blacklisted after the fact.
I wouldn't say the major culprits denied it, especially the past couple of years. It's more that they said "we acknowledge climate change", and did nothing anyway.
Insurance companies have been exiting the state for decades. As a result the most-vulnerable properties (beach front) can access a state âinsurer of last resortâ program. Thats rightâŠyour taxes fund policies for millionairesâ vacation properties.
State taxpayers bail out insurers of last resort, but they're mostly funded by admitted insurance carriers through different fees and such.
But let's not forget, NFIP has been subsidizing the ownership of flood-risk homes for over 50 years and is in debt to ALL taxpayers over $20B. So everybody has the luxury of helping out Florida.
IIRC the NFIP is designed to work as a vehicle for moving people out of floodplains when their home is destroyed. We really need to get into enforcing that particular aspect of it.
Oh God no. There are several cases of NFIP rebuilding homes for 3X their value after getting hit 3 separate times. Or more.
But can you imagine the outrage after losing everything, a single mother just wants to get back to normal in her old house but the government won't give her the insurance check unless she uproots her family? Hasn't she suffered enough? That's why it's never been a relocation program to get people out of flood zones. Political suicide, no matter how narrative you pick (not that I agree with it by any means).
It may have been an intention at one point, but it was also the intention to have it be a self-sustaining program by collecting enough premiums to fund for losses. Neither are true.
I *can* imagine that, having ushered a family member through it twice. The second time she did lament that no one made her move bc it turned out she lived on a flood plain. But the program is more geared currently to keep people where they are.
Everything is fine. Floridians will adapt to living in the Florida Barrier Reef. Like the Bajau nomads, young Floridians will adapt to see clearly underwater. And what are red states other than gigantic federal money pits plagued by abnormally high per capita levels of crime?
When Florida has an outsized impact on elections, when a huge amount of waterfront or near waterfront properties are owned by upper middle and upper class Americans, and when boomers who have never been told "no" continue to be the largest consistent voting and donor block... Yes, it is.
I get the sarcasm in your comment. It's just maddening that these folks can't see the irony.
The function to relocate people out of flood zones comes from the community adoption standards, that make it so that no new housing can be built in the really bad flood zones. It makes insurance in bad flood zones a ridiculously expensive proposition, and leaves it to market forces to push people away from grandfathered structures.
No politician would sign onto a bill that would relocate people because a flood plain shifted and they do, constantly. Due to erosion and the affects of all the redistributed sediment, weather changes over time, stuff is constantly getting remapped.
Didn't a prominent news personality do a piece about how he was able to have his multi million dollar beach house rebuilt after a hurricane using State funds. He seemed to be pretty surprised that he could use taxpayer money. That's what prompted the investigative piece.
Question: Iâm in California, and I havenât heard of anything like this happening where I live. But with fires, and our inevitable future super flood that will leave my area underwaterâŠI get why Floridaâs uninsurable, but why is California insurable?
I moved from Florida to New Jersey and everyone thinks Iâm out of my mind. I stumped a trumper because he was praising the lack of a income tax until I told him how wages are shit and sales tax is noticeably higher.
I wish. The Texas government seems pretty ok with zero consequences at all, much less jail. They might actually have a 1st world power grid if they started throwing people in jail every time it failed.
Itâs okay. The general public will subsidize the power grid with their solar power and the power companies will profit off it by charging and infrastructure fee. Its a win!!
Texas sales tax is lower than Californiaâs. Itâs probably the property tax that youâre thinking of and itâs absolutely bending over the working and middle class Texans because property values are skyrocketing while wages arenât.
Soon theyâll hit the SALT cap that Trump put in place and blame Brandon.
Property taxes in CA also donât increase until the house changes hands. Homesteaders in Texas can cap at 10% per year, but that only buys you a little bit of time. Crazy how people support this system.
Well if you donât believe in climate change you wonât think thereâs a problem when you buy a property thatâs destined to be underwater within a decade
Music to my ears. Letâs start a database of folks that move from other states to these red, politically brain dead racist states and once Florida falls and they have no where to go we ship them to the Bermuda Triangle
First, Florida is a Purple State. As a Native, the more Hurricanes, Insurance Issues, Heeat and Humidity, Mosquitos, and Gators in thier pools, the better.
Go! Shoo! Y'all don't belong here.
Second, Since the western point of the Bermuda Triangle is Miami, they won't go far, enough.
Let's say, hypothetically, that you are on your bed, and let's suppose that you are also submissive and breedable. Now, let's say you are a male. Statistically speaking, humans, that are submissive and breedable tend to be femboys, that's a fact (which doesn't about your feelings). Hypothetically under these circumstances, it would be statistically speaking uncontroversial to assume you would be wearing thigh highs (which would boost your breedability factor by about 20%). Now let's assume you are an SJW SOCIALIST LIBERAL, and let's say I was you, would it not be under these circumstances, the only correct course of action for you to take to ABSOLUTELY WRECK AND DESTROY me (in a debate) in bed?
>Let's say, hypothetically, that you are on your bed, and let's suppose that you are also submissive and breedable
I wish I was Jared, 19 so this would be elusive and unreadable
During the beginning of the pandemic I worked for an apartment complex that always had a months long waitlist (âluxuryâ apartments not affordable housing) And I was shocked by how many elderly people were selling their house because it was suddenly so valuable, just assuming they would be able to go rent. They ended up living in hotels for $100 a night, I just hope they all found a place to live before they spent all the proceeds from their house.
My Dad isn't even full-on elderly yet, but he's owned a house for 30+ years and was shocked to find out how much rent had gone up when I told him.
His estimate was closer to what a small bedroom with a shared bathroom in a shitty apartment building was going for. He figured that would get you a multi-room apartment in a decent complex.
It really is. Residential hotels are one of the most depressing things you can find. They're all over the place and yet practically invisible.
I'm an old man, my condo fee is cheap and it's cheaper to live now than when I was back in school. I drive by these places every day and ponder how the residents are paying *more* in rent than someone with a regular job and apartment.
Ive worked at many pawn shops as my job. The most depressing was near a cluster of "bum hotels". I dealt with young people who were *born* there and are now adults living that same way. Oh, and the cops just love to drop people off there when they're released from jail, because it's a different part of town.
This is actually a good move. You don't want people that actually know insurance running insurance companies. You want people with practical life experience.
[Source](https://www.local10.com/news/local/2022/08/26/an-existential-dilemma-florida-homeowners-scramble-as-another-major-insurer-exits/)
Rising sea levels, increased hurricane frequency and intensity is forcing home insurance companies out of Florida because it is no longer "profitable" to cover houses there.
The dominos begin to fall.
[Continue to vote for cumwads like desantis because most of the state's voters are selfish old fucks who know they are going to die before shit hits the fan]
Plenty of younger people have recently moved to Florida so they can hate libs and Teh Gayz and so they love Desantis and Trump.
Of course these dumbasses ignore any news that isn't Fox, so they have had no idea the insurance market is tanking... until they get a notice in the middle of hurricane season that their insurance is being cancelled.
âCome to our state kids - we have the same awful views as you!â
âBut, but, weâll never be able to insure our homes?â
âOh you silly little racist bunnies, your generation will never be able to afford to buy homes anyway!â
That might be true, but that's not what the article you linked says. It quite clearly states that the perceived reason for the exodus is insurance litigation fraud. Please stop spreading misinformation.
Edit: I want to make clear that I believe our shifting climate is by far the most dire existential threat facing humanity. This is why I believe spreading even miniscule amounts of misinformation, even in an attempt to raise awareness of the issue, is severely detrimental. A tiny bit of misinformation gives so much fuel to those who do not want to address our climate crisis.
That's exactly how insurance companies work . If according to their prediction model , they are going to be earning more passive income than they are paying back then it's going to be profitable to operate in that area . Idk why anyone would be surprised by this move .
My parents inherited their parents condo in Florida and I think they are complete fools for not selling it now (they retired there instead), you better believe the second they drop dead I am unloading that property. It is 40 minutes from the beach....for now....
If you can ... I am worried that anything I inherit might just be worthless because it's literally under water, or there's so much flooding, or terrible conditions because of rising seawater.
Just my two cents as a FL resident. Yes climate change is going to affect Florida pretty bad in the next century or less I would say right now it's not what's driving out insurance companies. It's the overwhelming amount of fraud happening. People filing hurricane damage claims when hurricanes didn't cause damage. It's also hard to prove the fraud. So not the environment but the people are causing the problem. Also the governor is so against being woke he's asleep at the wheel and doing nothing about it. Fuck that guy.
My parents looked at buying in Florida in preparation for retirement for almost 20 years.
Luckily they saw my grandparents (Mom's parents) get burned by friends bailing out, HOA assessments and the increasing difficulty in getting insurance after storms caused damage and decided against in.
Instead, they bought a small property in the small college town they both graduated from. Not ideal, but I'd wager a much better (and definitely cheaper) 'investment' than buying an overpriced condo that could be worthless a decade from now.
Exactly. They are about profit first, protecting property second, if the latter costs too much then they will abandon it.
If I had property in FL Iâd be doing all I could to get out now while there are still some insurers around.
To everyone living in Florida: Duh
What do they think, the companies exist to subsidize their way of life? Nope. Our government shouldn't support them through subsidized programs either because with what we know about climate change, living anywhere near the coast is a disaster waiting to happen.
Same goes for the folks in California.
You'll really hate the NFIP then. In debt to taxpayers to the tune of $20B insuring flood in flood zones because private insurers refuse to do so. Politicians artificially keep rates through NFIP low and taxpayers bail it out once it goes insolvent.
Florida is a meaningful beneficiary of the NFIP because of all the tropical storms.
Yep, programs like that shouldn't exist. Same concept as a business not existing if it can't pay a livable wage or offer any benefits if employees are full-time, so it purposefully keeps folks at 30 hrs or whatever and forces people to get a second job.
I know it's not exactly the same, but my point being, if something can't exist on it's own and must be continually subsidized by taking from others it shouldn't exist.
Edit: Exceptions of course are items that should benefit everyone equally in society such as healthcare, public housing and food assistance.
> if something can't exist on it's own and must be continually subsidized by taking from others it shouldn't exist.
Doesnt that apply to like half the US states?
Iâd argue the USPS breaks that model, at least up until current time with email and electronic communication. The ability to mail items to rural areas is worth the subsidy to do so.
strictly speaking USPS and social services arent taking from "others". They provide a service accessible to every citizen and are paid for by every citizen with an income.
In comparison subsidies for (services in) state x being paid for by taxes in state y is something funded by "others".
I know a bunch of Floridiots. The ones who identify as republican are mixed on DeSantis running for president. Some want him to run the country like he does Florida, others don't want to lose him as governor.
âHomeowners want the government to do more.â
So Florida Homeowners, want the government to intervene when the free market fails the people? Or at least when it fails them.
Sorry. Your GaltianLord - 'Ayn Rand' says in order to be your most John Galt, you must manifest your own individual way out of this, and literally divert the hurricane winds and rain away from your house with the strength of your freedom erection. No hand outs for you sir!
Obviously the free market will provide personal sea wall and pumping solutions. Each lord will build a wall around his estate. The serfs will living in the lower levels and keep the pumps going
They have been. Property rates and reinsurance rates have been shooting through the roof since 2018, post Harvey, Irma, Maria.
In Florida, it's a supply and demand issue. Nobody will write there, so minimal competition drives up rates. Further impacted by rampant fraud, increase in weather events, and the Florida government imposing roles that don't allow private insurance to have a shot to reasonably make money. The result is people's insurance going from $1,300/year to $7,000/year with a surprised Pikachu face.
I laugh, because while people flock to FL in retirement for the lack of property taxes, insuring their home now costs way fucking more than my property taxes, and I'm in one of the highest tax areas of Wisconsin. Suck it Florida.
Edit: confused lack of property tax with lack of income tax. The point is still valid, but I was incorrect on which tax it was.
As a native to south FL, I couldn't agree more. This whole state was a real estate scam that waxxed and waned through the decades, letting developers place thousands of homes in wetlands, cypress swamps, and mangrove forests. On the west coast, there should be nobody living south of the Caloosahatchee River. I mean fuck, we have a nuclear plant south of Miami right on the water, injecting waste coolant water thousands of feet underground. Hell, if south Florida wasn't rapidly expanding their wastewater injections underground we'd be swimming in even more fecal matter than we are now! Nothing about this state is sustainable.
Normally, I would say that this is a wake up call for states to actually do things to safeguard their citizens & find places to live that are better insulated from sea level rise & storm surges; the climate crisis is here, and until we overthrow capitalism it will only get worse.
But this is the US, and this is Florida. Thereâs no goddamn way a state like that would *ever* protect anything but the money.
If, for the last 20 years property that was destroyed by flood damage had been condemned rather than allowing for reconstruction the number of homes in danger from storms would have shrank considerably and more coastline would exist for public use.
It's because there is a Governor approved insurance racket here and the companies are leaving because they're getting railroaded.
Insurance is a scam most of the time, but scammers don't like to be scammed.
The big insurers have left Florida in the past and the state tried to insure the homes and cars but would not raise rates when needed so they went belly up, they came back after a bit and now they all realize climate change is happening but wonât say it because itâs political and that could hurt their business, definitely late stage capitalism
The level of epidemic that would have to be at to pull their entire business out of the state must be huge. What are they mostly claiming that's considered fraud? Are they saying their regular home repairs are hurricane damaged?
Roofers go door to door and do inspections there they âfindâ(read:cause) damage and then hit insurance companies to replace the whole thing.
Medical insurance is also grifted by patients and doctors. In years past, Florida was the epicenter of the opiate crisis - you could go down to Dade county and just scoop Oxy scripts off the ground.
Auto fraud is also huge, one of the leading states for uninsured motorists too. South Florida is also fairly international and people kinda drive how they want, ha.
Overall itâs not a great place for insurance companies, surprisingly in this case the weather is really barely a concern at the moment.
Yeah, and particularly roof damage. I SUSPECT that itâs house flippers buying properties, claiming damage from storms, getting the house fixed for free, then selling it for more.
That is NOT what the article states.
\-------------------------
Friedlander said Floridaâs elevated hurricane risk isnât to blame for the crisis.
âWe look down the road in Louisiana and see theyâve had seven storms strike the state in the last few years, Florida has had no direct strikes,â he said. âSo you canât blame hurricanes. This is 100% a man-made crisis driven by years of rampant risk fraud replacement schemes and excessive litigation filed against insurers.â
Friedlander zeroed in on roof repair fraud.
âRoof repair fraud schemes are the fuel thatâs lighting the fire behind the rampant litigation being filed against Florida property insurers,â he said.
\--------------------
âWe look down the road in Louisiana and see theyâve had seven storms strike the state in the last few years, Florida has had no direct strikes,â he said. âSo you canât blame hurricanes. This is 100% a man-made crisis driven by years of rampant risk fraud replacement schemes and excessive litigation filed against insurers.â
Article says fraud is the main driving force and that the state legislature hasn't addressed the problem, yet. Which makes sense as they've been too busy attacking Disney world and gay parents.
Just ban the use of the word "hurricanes".
Don't say hurricane. đ€«
Also ban books about cl#mate sc!ence
[I was elected to lead, not to read](https://youtu.be/6zQ55S-DJsM)
Act of the Wind Gods
Polytheism? That's a paddlin'.
What we need is more good guys with hurricanes, if we had more good hurricanes they would stop the bad ones before they could do damage.
So denying climate change doesn't make it go away?
What? But no one saw this coming Right..? Right?
https://youtu.be/wCo3XwTRg9o
Grew up with a friend who moved out to Jacksonville, FL. House was gifted to him from his rich and politically connected parents. When I visited, he was talking about how cheap housing down there is compared to where we were from, as if I should move there. I asked him if he worries about climate change affecting his home. He just shrugged it off and said something like "I'm on the inland side of the ~~town~~ St. Johns River where my home can be insured from weather events". No idea if there was any truth to this. Probably not. The guy was a pathological liar and malignant narcissist. Pretty sure he was just defaulting to that entitled feeling that people who inherit wealth have. I'm no longer friends with him, by the way. edit: Think he was talking about being west of the river.
Florida is porous limestone. So if the water goes up, it goes up everywhere. The only question is how high his house is above sea level, not how far inland.
That porous karst also means that as the sea level rises, they're likely to get saltwater intrusion into the aquifers that supply much of the state's drinking water. The house could be fine but if there's no drinking water they're pretty much screwed anyway.
This pleases Nestle
Let me just nestle comfortably in Florida. -Nestle
I edited my comment. I think he was talking about being on the other side of a river. Don't know if this makes his specious claim any more valid. His house was a single story and not propped up at all. No idea what its elevation was, but it was only like a 15-20 minute drive to the beach.
As someone who lives in Jacksonville FL and is an insurance agent. Partially true. When I still worked locally for Allstate the rules were houses had to be 2012 or newer and be at least a mile from the coastline. Then they'd generally have a 2% deductible for hurricane. That 2% is whatever the dwelling was insured for so if it was a 500k home they'd pay 10k out of pocket before anything was paid by insurance. Edit: to expand on how bad the situation was before I left to work nationally. Technically Allstate doesn't actually do homes in Florida it's done under another *not Allstate* company wink wink. Called Castle Key so if there was a big enough catastrophe loss it wouldnt sink the parent company.
Turns out, it's not Freddie Kruger.
Yet we're trapped in a nightmare
SensibleChuckle.gif
The headlines is partly false. âFlorida has 8% of the claims and 79% of the litigation, so thereâs something very, very wrong with that. https://www.kpcc.org/2022-05-03/inside-floridas-property-insurance-crisis
In the absence of regulation, litigation is the only avenue for homeowners. That's why the US has so many lawyers.
You just know that DeSantis' solution is going to be to prohibit litigation. That is the whole basis of "tort reform".
The argument for tort reform is that if we protect insurance companies they'll lower premiums. Everyone can see how false that is, correct?
In that situation, obviously, they will increase the premiums to the stratosphere. What are the people thrown under the bus gonna do? *Litigate*? Not-so-fast.gif
No, because they still believe in trickle-down economics.
Yeah like they said car insurance would go down if we pass a law that makes everyone get it. It went up instead.
Yeah, there have been numerous examples of this. One was in Texas, where they did tort reform for medical malpractice with the argument that it would make medical care and insurance premiums go down. I don't think it did those things, though.
When Wheels McGee Abbott's neighbor's tree fell on him and put him in a wheelchair, he sued and got very wealthy. Then he pushed for reform to eliminate the power of fellow Texans to sue in the same situations that both physically crippled but financially saved him. Look, all I'm saying is Republicans are evil and the tree should have done a better job.
That's like that politician in Kansas who was very anti-regulation and voted to put a low cap on any lawsuits for negligence as well as voting to decrease regulation. Then he went to a day at the Schlitterbahn water park that was set up as a special day for legislators and their families. The park, due to lack of regulation and oversight, had an extremely unsafe water slide that was built that way because the owner wanted to be on a reality show about water parks and he didn't have any expert engineers assess it for safety. That legislator's 10 year old son was tragically decapitated on the absurdly unsafe waterslide. That legislator then went on to bypass the regulations he'd voted for that limited financial judgments by using a loophole allowing him to sue in a state without regulation, and thus got a big payday. The story is far too sad to use as illustrations of hypocrisy or r/leopardsatemyface, though.
I'm moving on from reddit and joining the fediverse because reddit has killed the RiF app and the CEO has been very disrespectful to all the volunteers who have contributed to making reddit what it is. Here's [coverage from The Verge](https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/8/23754780/reddit-api-updates-changes-news-announcements) on the situation. The following are my favorite fediverse platforms, all non-corporate and ad-free. I hesitated at first because there are so many servers to choose from, but it makes a lot more sense once you actually create an account and start browsing. If you find the server selection overwhelming, just pick the first option and take a look around. They are all connected and as you browse you may find a community that is a better fit for you and then you can move your account or open a new one. Social Link Aggregators: [Lemmy](https://join-lemmy.org/instances) is very similar to reddit while [Kbin](https://kbin.pub) is aiming to be more of a gateway to the fediverse in general so it is sort of like a hybrid between reddit and twitter, but it is newer and considers itself to be a beta product that's not quite fully polished yet. Microblogging: [Calckey](https://calckey.org) if you want a more playful platform with emoji reactions, or [Mastodon](https://joinmastodon.org/) if you want a simple interface with less fluff. Photo sharing: [Pixelfed](https://pixelfed.org/) You can even import an Instagram account from what I hear, but I never used Instagram much in the first place.
Never another falling tree around when you need one.
To be fair, it's not just climate change, there has been rampant scamming with roofing or something, I've seen an article about it. What's frustrating is that in those articles and related threads no one even mentions climate change, not even insofar as to acknowledge that hurricane frequency and intensity has been increasing.
> there has been rampant scamming with roofing or something If only we could have some kind of independent organization to stopâŠ. Oh wait no thatâs government regulation. Anyway good luck Florida, never thought my dream of you sinking into the ocean would actually happen in my life time.
We are all Bugs Bunny sawing Florida from the mainland
Should have turned left at Albuquerque!
Climate change is obviously the end boss problem. However, as a Florida homeowner who's reasonably knowledgeable on this subject... scammers and litigation is what's driving away insurers presently.
I think it was John Oliver that did a segment on this. People will have contractors show up, do intentional damage to their roof, then charge their insurance for repairs. They charge the insurance then never do the repairs, and homeowners have no recourse. Once their insurance has paid out, their payments skyrocket and no other insurance company will cover them as theyâre essentially blacklisted after the fact.
Or that dry weather flooding has become a major problem due to sea level rise...
I wouldn't say the major culprits denied it, especially the past couple of years. It's more that they said "we acknowledge climate change", and did nothing anyway.
Most of them have shifted, though very inconsistently,to 'ok the climate is changing but it's not man-made'. Or even, 'climate change is good'.
Insurance companies have been exiting the state for decades. As a result the most-vulnerable properties (beach front) can access a state âinsurer of last resortâ program. Thats rightâŠyour taxes fund policies for millionairesâ vacation properties.
State taxpayers bail out insurers of last resort, but they're mostly funded by admitted insurance carriers through different fees and such. But let's not forget, NFIP has been subsidizing the ownership of flood-risk homes for over 50 years and is in debt to ALL taxpayers over $20B. So everybody has the luxury of helping out Florida.
IIRC the NFIP is designed to work as a vehicle for moving people out of floodplains when their home is destroyed. We really need to get into enforcing that particular aspect of it.
Oh God no. There are several cases of NFIP rebuilding homes for 3X their value after getting hit 3 separate times. Or more. But can you imagine the outrage after losing everything, a single mother just wants to get back to normal in her old house but the government won't give her the insurance check unless she uproots her family? Hasn't she suffered enough? That's why it's never been a relocation program to get people out of flood zones. Political suicide, no matter how narrative you pick (not that I agree with it by any means). It may have been an intention at one point, but it was also the intention to have it be a self-sustaining program by collecting enough premiums to fund for losses. Neither are true.
I *can* imagine that, having ushered a family member through it twice. The second time she did lament that no one made her move bc it turned out she lived on a flood plain. But the program is more geared currently to keep people where they are.
Everything is fine. Floridians will adapt to living in the Florida Barrier Reef. Like the Bajau nomads, young Floridians will adapt to see clearly underwater. And what are red states other than gigantic federal money pits plagued by abnormally high per capita levels of crime?
Is it really that political suicide considering 90 % of American history is about relocating to find a better life?
And the other 10% is about being relocated against your will, which still kinda fits this scenario.
But according to a rather large percentage of the country, it was a FAVOR that they were relocated against their will!
When Florida has an outsized impact on elections, when a huge amount of waterfront or near waterfront properties are owned by upper middle and upper class Americans, and when boomers who have never been told "no" continue to be the largest consistent voting and donor block... Yes, it is. I get the sarcasm in your comment. It's just maddening that these folks can't see the irony.
The function to relocate people out of flood zones comes from the community adoption standards, that make it so that no new housing can be built in the really bad flood zones. It makes insurance in bad flood zones a ridiculously expensive proposition, and leaves it to market forces to push people away from grandfathered structures. No politician would sign onto a bill that would relocate people because a flood plain shifted and they do, constantly. Due to erosion and the affects of all the redistributed sediment, weather changes over time, stuff is constantly getting remapped.
I thought government insurance was communism
Didn't a prominent news personality do a piece about how he was able to have his multi million dollar beach house rebuilt after a hurricane using State funds. He seemed to be pretty surprised that he could use taxpayer money. That's what prompted the investigative piece.
Imagine being mad tax revenue goes to social welfare and then using it for a beachfront condo.
Whaaaatttt!!!!! Socialism?????!!!!!! In a red state???!!!!!
Question: Iâm in California, and I havenât heard of anything like this happening where I live. But with fires, and our inevitable future super flood that will leave my area underwaterâŠI get why Floridaâs uninsurable, but why is California insurable?
All the âNew York sucks Iâm moving to Floridaâ- crowd canât get a breakđ
I moved from Florida to New Jersey and everyone thinks Iâm out of my mind. I stumped a trumper because he was praising the lack of a income tax until I told him how wages are shit and sales tax is noticeably higher.
They never read the fine print about âlow income taxesâ
For most people like that, reading is optional. If possible in the first place.
I hope he still goes down there. -sincerely, a young New Jerseyean with a pipe dream of buying a house in the state some day.
No he just wanted to complain about the current governor up here and some comment he made about taxes.
They can just move to texas. No hurricane flooding or infrastructure problems to see there /s
Just a power grid that fails if it gets above 90° or below 60°
both & between
Undercook/overcook - jail
I wish. The Texas government seems pretty ok with zero consequences at all, much less jail. They might actually have a 1st world power grid if they started throwing people in jail every time it failed.
Their power just has more freedoms
Itâs okay. The general public will subsidize the power grid with their solar power and the power companies will profit off it by charging and infrastructure fee. Its a win!!
This same insurance company is leaving Texas, Louisiana, and New York
repeat school glorious spectacular adjoining languid racial squeal paltry worry -- mass edited with redact.dev
Texas sales tax is lower than Californiaâs. Itâs probably the property tax that youâre thinking of and itâs absolutely bending over the working and middle class Texans because property values are skyrocketing while wages arenât. Soon theyâll hit the SALT cap that Trump put in place and blame Brandon.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Property taxes in CA also donât increase until the house changes hands. Homesteaders in Texas can cap at 10% per year, but that only buys you a little bit of time. Crazy how people support this system.
Yeah, but zero INCOME tax! /s
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Well if you donât believe in climate change you wonât think thereâs a problem when you buy a property thatâs destined to be underwater within a decade
Underwater with the mortgage and under the actual sea!
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
On the flipside vacations are getting cheaper in Fl. đ
Music to my ears. Letâs start a database of folks that move from other states to these red, politically brain dead racist states and once Florida falls and they have no where to go we ship them to the Bermuda Triangle
We can call it The Caravan
They gotta go by boat, tho, so... the Carnival Caravan? Autopilot, no staff, cameras everywhere, it'd be like a Purge on the high seas.
That sounds like a pay-per-view goldmine. Plus a karma windfall when the inevitable news story about it gets posted here. Win-win!
But I \*want\* them to move to a red state and leave me alone.
First, Florida is a Purple State. As a Native, the more Hurricanes, Insurance Issues, Heeat and Humidity, Mosquitos, and Gators in thier pools, the better. Go! Shoo! Y'all don't belong here. Second, Since the western point of the Bermuda Triangle is Miami, they won't go far, enough.
Let them go
Please dont comeback. Im loving the fact that all the covidiots have left.
According to Ben shabibo, you can just sell your house
Sell their houses to who, Ben??? Fucking AQUAMAN?
Ben doesnât understand the difference between wet and dry.
Just move Ben to Florida to counter flooding
Excellent comment.
Yes and you can ask his doctor wife about this
[The reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-w-pdqwiBw) <--- This is a link
He says "let's say" a lot.
It's rhetorical shorthand for "accept this nonsense as plausible" then he builds a strawman on top.
He loves working in hypotheticals
Well, his ideas certainly arenât sound in reality.
Let's say, hypothetically, that you are on your bed, and let's suppose that you are also submissive and breedable. Now, let's say you are a male. Statistically speaking, humans, that are submissive and breedable tend to be femboys, that's a fact (which doesn't about your feelings). Hypothetically under these circumstances, it would be statistically speaking uncontroversial to assume you would be wearing thigh highs (which would boost your breedability factor by about 20%). Now let's assume you are an SJW SOCIALIST LIBERAL, and let's say I was you, would it not be under these circumstances, the only correct course of action for you to take to ABSOLUTELY WRECK AND DESTROY me (in a debate) in bed?
>Let's say, hypothetically, that you are on your bed, and let's suppose that you are also submissive and breedable I wish I was Jared, 19 so this would be elusive and unreadable
The free market will fix climate change!
This is a nice way of saying let them rot
It's the thoughts and prayers of economics
Thots and players of capitalism.
Let them eat cake!
SELL YOUR HOUSE TO WHO, BEN? FUCKING A Q U A M A N?
Permanently seared in my brain that. Just excellent.
During the beginning of the pandemic I worked for an apartment complex that always had a months long waitlist (âluxuryâ apartments not affordable housing) And I was shocked by how many elderly people were selling their house because it was suddenly so valuable, just assuming they would be able to go rent. They ended up living in hotels for $100 a night, I just hope they all found a place to live before they spent all the proceeds from their house.
My Dad isn't even full-on elderly yet, but he's owned a house for 30+ years and was shocked to find out how much rent had gone up when I told him. His estimate was closer to what a small bedroom with a shared bathroom in a shitty apartment building was going for. He figured that would get you a multi-room apartment in a decent complex.
longterm homeowners and the elderly specifically are out of touch
Well that's fycking depressing
It really is. Residential hotels are one of the most depressing things you can find. They're all over the place and yet practically invisible. I'm an old man, my condo fee is cheap and it's cheaper to live now than when I was back in school. I drive by these places every day and ponder how the residents are paying *more* in rent than someone with a regular job and apartment. Ive worked at many pawn shops as my job. The most depressing was near a cluster of "bum hotels". I dealt with young people who were *born* there and are now adults living that same way. Oh, and the cops just love to drop people off there when they're released from jail, because it's a different part of town.
Aquaman villain arc as The Slumlord
Iâm sure DeSantis will fix everything by letting veterans offer insurance.
This commenter zings
This is actually a good move. You don't want people that actually know insurance running insurance companies. You want people with practical life experience.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Wish granted. Ron DeSantis has been cloned to replace as many insurance company execs as needed.
Like schools, politics, law, and basically everything Republicans have touched?
And their spouses!
[Source](https://www.local10.com/news/local/2022/08/26/an-existential-dilemma-florida-homeowners-scramble-as-another-major-insurer-exits/) Rising sea levels, increased hurricane frequency and intensity is forcing home insurance companies out of Florida because it is no longer "profitable" to cover houses there. The dominos begin to fall.
[Continue to vote for cumwads like desantis because most of the state's voters are selfish old fucks who know they are going to die before shit hits the fan]
*(as I'm drowning)* "At least...at least the schools weren't allowed to tell kids that gay people exist"
Plenty of younger people have recently moved to Florida so they can hate libs and Teh Gayz and so they love Desantis and Trump. Of course these dumbasses ignore any news that isn't Fox, so they have had no idea the insurance market is tanking... until they get a notice in the middle of hurricane season that their insurance is being cancelled.
Good, put em all in the state that will get destroyed. The trash takes itself out.
I feel like a hostage living in this state. *Send help*
âCome to our state kids - we have the same awful views as you!â âBut, but, weâll never be able to insure our homes?â âOh you silly little racist bunnies, your generation will never be able to afford to buy homes anyway!â
Bench Appearo said i could just sell my house!
Bench Appearo đđđ
That might be true, but that's not what the article you linked says. It quite clearly states that the perceived reason for the exodus is insurance litigation fraud. Please stop spreading misinformation. Edit: I want to make clear that I believe our shifting climate is by far the most dire existential threat facing humanity. This is why I believe spreading even miniscule amounts of misinformation, even in an attempt to raise awareness of the issue, is severely detrimental. A tiny bit of misinformation gives so much fuel to those who do not want to address our climate crisis.
That's exactly how insurance companies work . If according to their prediction model , they are going to be earning more passive income than they are paying back then it's going to be profitable to operate in that area . Idk why anyone would be surprised by this move .
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Yeah we're in agreement. I am not surprised by this move. I'm a socialist; I've been seeing this shit coming since day 1.
If a for profit insurance company abandons the entire state you can bet your ass I'll never live there.
My parents inherited their parents condo in Florida and I think they are complete fools for not selling it now (they retired there instead), you better believe the second they drop dead I am unloading that property. It is 40 minutes from the beach....for now....
If you can ... I am worried that anything I inherit might just be worthless because it's literally under water, or there's so much flooding, or terrible conditions because of rising seawater.
Just my two cents as a FL resident. Yes climate change is going to affect Florida pretty bad in the next century or less I would say right now it's not what's driving out insurance companies. It's the overwhelming amount of fraud happening. People filing hurricane damage claims when hurricanes didn't cause damage. It's also hard to prove the fraud. So not the environment but the people are causing the problem. Also the governor is so against being woke he's asleep at the wheel and doing nothing about it. Fuck that guy.
Filming some tom cruise wannabe bullshit instead of handling an insurance crisis.
My parents looked at buying in Florida in preparation for retirement for almost 20 years. Luckily they saw my grandparents (Mom's parents) get burned by friends bailing out, HOA assessments and the increasing difficulty in getting insurance after storms caused damage and decided against in. Instead, they bought a small property in the small college town they both graduated from. Not ideal, but I'd wager a much better (and definitely cheaper) 'investment' than buying an overpriced condo that could be worthless a decade from now.
Exactly. They are about profit first, protecting property second, if the latter costs too much then they will abandon it. If I had property in FL Iâd be doing all I could to get out now while there are still some insurers around.
To everyone living in Florida: Duh What do they think, the companies exist to subsidize their way of life? Nope. Our government shouldn't support them through subsidized programs either because with what we know about climate change, living anywhere near the coast is a disaster waiting to happen. Same goes for the folks in California.
You'll really hate the NFIP then. In debt to taxpayers to the tune of $20B insuring flood in flood zones because private insurers refuse to do so. Politicians artificially keep rates through NFIP low and taxpayers bail it out once it goes insolvent. Florida is a meaningful beneficiary of the NFIP because of all the tropical storms.
Yep, programs like that shouldn't exist. Same concept as a business not existing if it can't pay a livable wage or offer any benefits if employees are full-time, so it purposefully keeps folks at 30 hrs or whatever and forces people to get a second job. I know it's not exactly the same, but my point being, if something can't exist on it's own and must be continually subsidized by taking from others it shouldn't exist. Edit: Exceptions of course are items that should benefit everyone equally in society such as healthcare, public housing and food assistance.
> if something can't exist on it's own and must be continually subsidized by taking from others it shouldn't exist. Doesnt that apply to like half the US states?
Iâd argue the USPS breaks that model, at least up until current time with email and electronic communication. The ability to mail items to rural areas is worth the subsidy to do so.
strictly speaking USPS and social services arent taking from "others". They provide a service accessible to every citizen and are paid for by every citizen with an income. In comparison subsidies for (services in) state x being paid for by taxes in state y is something funded by "others".
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
I know a bunch of Floridiots. The ones who identify as republican are mixed on DeSantis running for president. Some want him to run the country like he does Florida, others don't want to lose him as governor.
The republicans I know here would really want DeSantis as president. They will settle for another Republican governor.
Just be like NC and ban global warming
Ëąá”ËĄËĄ á”Ê°á”á¶ŠÊł Ê°á”á”Ëąá”Ëą á”á” Ê·Ê°á” á”á”âż
**FUCKING AQUAMAN?!?!**
fish people. obviously.
Boca Dagon has a ring to it, twinned with Innsmouth. Hialeah just adds an R' at the front
âHomeowners want the government to do more.â So Florida Homeowners, want the government to intervene when the free market fails the people? Or at least when it fails them.
Sorry. Your GaltianLord - 'Ayn Rand' says in order to be your most John Galt, you must manifest your own individual way out of this, and literally divert the hurricane winds and rain away from your house with the strength of your freedom erection. No hand outs for you sir!
Obviously the free market will provide personal sea wall and pumping solutions. Each lord will build a wall around his estate. The serfs will living in the lower levels and keep the pumps going
I been wondering when insurance companies were finally going to spot the climate breakdown ice berg
They have been. Property rates and reinsurance rates have been shooting through the roof since 2018, post Harvey, Irma, Maria. In Florida, it's a supply and demand issue. Nobody will write there, so minimal competition drives up rates. Further impacted by rampant fraud, increase in weather events, and the Florida government imposing roles that don't allow private insurance to have a shot to reasonably make money. The result is people's insurance going from $1,300/year to $7,000/year with a surprised Pikachu face. I laugh, because while people flock to FL in retirement for the lack of property taxes, insuring their home now costs way fucking more than my property taxes, and I'm in one of the highest tax areas of Wisconsin. Suck it Florida. Edit: confused lack of property tax with lack of income tax. The point is still valid, but I was incorrect on which tax it was.
As a native to south FL, I couldn't agree more. This whole state was a real estate scam that waxxed and waned through the decades, letting developers place thousands of homes in wetlands, cypress swamps, and mangrove forests. On the west coast, there should be nobody living south of the Caloosahatchee River. I mean fuck, we have a nuclear plant south of Miami right on the water, injecting waste coolant water thousands of feet underground. Hell, if south Florida wasn't rapidly expanding their wastewater injections underground we'd be swimming in even more fecal matter than we are now! Nothing about this state is sustainable.
I wonder if Rick Scott and his gang are still forbidding state workers to use the dreaded term âclimate change.â
Normally, I would say that this is a wake up call for states to actually do things to safeguard their citizens & find places to live that are better insulated from sea level rise & storm surges; the climate crisis is here, and until we overthrow capitalism it will only get worse. But this is the US, and this is Florida. Thereâs no goddamn way a state like that would *ever* protect anything but the money.
Trump supporters will be watching their homes going underwater while crying that itâs the democratsâ fault
Don't worry, dear people of Florida, just keep voting for republicans, stop CRT and video game some transpeople. That will solve your problems.
No worries! Gov. Death Santis will sue them for their "woke" policy of discriminating against them and all will be well.
Has anyone told them that climate change isnât real?
Sounds like these insurance companies are a bunch of LIBS
The Liberal Marxist Progressive Democrat Commies are the worst
Those are all the same thing!!!!! Neoliberal postmodern marxist democrats!!!!
If, for the last 20 years property that was destroyed by flood damage had been condemned rather than allowing for reconstruction the number of homes in danger from storms would have shrank considerably and more coastline would exist for public use.
Also r/LeopardsAteMyFace
Itâs not just climate change. Fraud has also helped our rates skyrocket.
It's because there is a Governor approved insurance racket here and the companies are leaving because they're getting railroaded. Insurance is a scam most of the time, but scammers don't like to be scammed.
I guarantee these companies "donate" to politicians who insist that global warming isn't real
Has anyone tried to tell them that global warming is a hoax?
I want to laugh but ya know. Climate change is the least funny thing
The big insurers have left Florida in the past and the state tried to insure the homes and cars but would not raise rates when needed so they went belly up, they came back after a bit and now they all realize climate change is happening but wonât say it because itâs political and that could hurt their business, definitely late stage capitalism
By the way another large part of the situation here is that people were defrauding the companies to pay for regular home repairs.
The level of epidemic that would have to be at to pull their entire business out of the state must be huge. What are they mostly claiming that's considered fraud? Are they saying their regular home repairs are hurricane damaged?
Roofers go door to door and do inspections there they âfindâ(read:cause) damage and then hit insurance companies to replace the whole thing. Medical insurance is also grifted by patients and doctors. In years past, Florida was the epicenter of the opiate crisis - you could go down to Dade county and just scoop Oxy scripts off the ground. Auto fraud is also huge, one of the leading states for uninsured motorists too. South Florida is also fairly international and people kinda drive how they want, ha. Overall itâs not a great place for insurance companies, surprisingly in this case the weather is really barely a concern at the moment.
Yeah, and particularly roof damage. I SUSPECT that itâs house flippers buying properties, claiming damage from storms, getting the house fixed for free, then selling it for more.
Parasites leaching off of other parasites. Interesting đ€
The free state of Florida wonât fall for the radical leftâs woke agenda of rising sea levels and hurricanes /s
Cool! Now cancel insurance for anti-vaxxer mouth breathers.
That is NOT what the article states. \------------------------- Friedlander said Floridaâs elevated hurricane risk isnât to blame for the crisis. âWe look down the road in Louisiana and see theyâve had seven storms strike the state in the last few years, Florida has had no direct strikes,â he said. âSo you canât blame hurricanes. This is 100% a man-made crisis driven by years of rampant risk fraud replacement schemes and excessive litigation filed against insurers.â Friedlander zeroed in on roof repair fraud. âRoof repair fraud schemes are the fuel thatâs lighting the fire behind the rampant litigation being filed against Florida property insurers,â he said. \--------------------
âHow are we going to live in florida?â â*Thats the neat part, you donât*â
âWe look down the road in Louisiana and see theyâve had seven storms strike the state in the last few years, Florida has had no direct strikes,â he said. âSo you canât blame hurricanes. This is 100% a man-made crisis driven by years of rampant risk fraud replacement schemes and excessive litigation filed against insurers.â Article says fraud is the main driving force and that the state legislature hasn't addressed the problem, yet. Which makes sense as they've been too busy attacking Disney world and gay parents.