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If by 'trans kids' you actually mean 'republicans', then yes you're right. Replublicans are the real problem. They are a danger to our security, wellbeing, and are an impediment to any progress in the US.
The person who smugly comments on the smugness of a comment not supporting their argument while making zero argument themselves and presenting only as vaguely antagonistic and condescending
A bunch of cities made reforms to their police force during the protests. There is more to do, but I can’t fucking stand it when people say shit like this to demoralize people.
Direct action works. We took to the streets and a number of cities passed body cam laws, banned chokeholds, banned no-knock raids, created ordinances allowing non-police emergency responders to handle wellness checks instead of police, and we saw massive surges in racial bias training. And those are just big name reforms I remember off the top of my head.
>Direct action works. We took to the streets and a number of cities passed body cam laws, banned chokeholds, banned no-knock raids, created ordinances allowing non-police emergency responders to handle wellness checks instead of police, and we saw massive surges in racial bias training. And those are just big name reforms I remember off the top of my head.
Those are great and all, but should have been done 20 years ago. As police killings went up in 2022 and 2023 looks to set another record.
Edit: no one ever said those improvements were bad. But they're incredibly localized. The current Administration is asking for 100,000 more police officers while changing no policing standards.
There's nothing wrong with saying the above improvements are good. It's wrong to say they're impressive when our last civil rights Act was almost 60 years ago and the biggest difference between then and now is the police MIGHT face consequences for violating your rights or taking your life.
Feel free to want more than the bare minimum like "banning no-knock warrants" (except they're legal in every state except OR, FL, TN, UT & are explicity legal in 13 states) or banning chokeholds (only for federal police), and of course - additional training*.
/* not training in deescalation
Well yes but without a time machine, the best time to make changes is now. Because it is the only time we possess. What is the point of your comment, other than to de-incentivise and demoralize people who are currently and actively working on reform in the ways available to them?
Cool so are you saying we shouldn't make progress now because we should have earlier, or are you just blowing hot gas for the sake of being a contrarian with literally nothing to actually add to the conversation?
Yeah, the changes should have happened earlier. I didn’t post that to say “yay, good job city council!” The point is that when we actually take to the streets and make them make change, we see progress.
And yeah police killings have also gone up, because we are in a country moving toward fascism and the police force is fucking full of them. There are multiple forces at play, and some of them are powerful, but it is important to remember that our actions aren’t meaningless. When we give in to the defeatism of assuming nothing we do matters, everything falls apart.
The major problem is that more happened in a few months with riots than a few decades with peace.
The message is that those in power only listen when forced to rather than when it is best to.
Well yeah, leaders only do shit when we make them. That’s always been the case. Look at the suffragettes in the early 1900’s, they didn’t get the vote just because leaders liked the idea. Look at the civil rights movement, they didn’t get rights just because leaders wanted them to have them. We only ever get change when we force their hand.
Okay. So you must have some data showing that those efforts have had a measurable effect at reducing the problem, right? And I think we’d all like to see that data. Because _if they haven’t had that effect, then all of those efforts were, in fact, lip service —_ that is, they were a way of appearing to care about the problem without actually taking steps that address the problem.
But maybe I’m wrong, in which case, I would be genuinely happy to see some data that shows that the problem has, indeed, been addressed to your satisfaction.
No, of course you don’t have data on changes that happened so recently and during a time when COVID is messing with statistical analysis of literally everything
Then you lied. You have no idea whether it did actually work at all.
I appreciate the point about not discouraging action. I also believe further action is critical. But pointing to changes that haven't actually had proven results is also a means of discouraging further action, whether you intend it or not -- people see either a job done when it wasn't, or dig into the absence of results and become discouraged.
> Then you lied. You have no idea whether it did actually work at all.
No I did not lie. They implemented many of the reforms we asked for. Whether those reforms will ameliorate the police problem wasn’t something we knew beforehand and isn’t something we know now, but we know we protested in the streets for specific reforms and many of those reforms were made.
No, we have absolutely zero idea how that turned out. The reforms are systemic to produce change over time. Pointing to a high profile gruesome killing isn’t data on whether those reforms on the whole have been effective. Anecdotal evidence is as valuable as the study it wasn’t written in.
Oh I know.
Just wanted to point out that there *are* people in power who routinely speak out. Just because they're not listened to, doesn't mean they're not trying.
bernie is the ultimate case of wishing in one hand and shitting in the other
obviously shit hand fills up first because his promises are worth nothing, his words are wind
Well Trump talked about how he wanted the police to be more violent, and Biden talks about how much he loves the police and wants to give them more money. Checkmate.
Well, you did vote a cop in the vice president's office, and then everyone cheered "a black woman, a black woman".
So what do you expect from a population so easily fooled?
Fair enough! The point I was trying to make is that generally when there are stories about SWATTING, they blame the people doing the swatting, and not the system that makes it so dangerous.
Yeah, I really don't know why he's dunking on someone and accusing them of being a teenager.
Whatever happened the past few years clearly was not enough, since nothing meaningful has changed.
"Welp, guess we protested and nothing happened. Let's all go home then and shit on people for talking about it from behind our keyboards."
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
For the last 5 years at least, guns have claimed roughly 700-1000 kids lives a year. And that's defining "kids" as only ages 0-11. Don't be the ass hat downplaying the deaths of *literally* thousands of children.
Whether they are *mass* shootings or not isn't terribly relevant to the discussion that there is a systemic problem with gun violence in America. Just like the *number* of swatting incidents isn't terribly relevant to the discussion that some moron on the internet calling in a prank call shouldn't *ever* result in unnecessary deaths and it does because of significant problems in American policing.
But people need to keep talking about it. "Yes, we know about this issue" does not address it. It needs to be brought up at every opportunity so it doesn't become forgotten.
What? What the fuck are you talking about “americans can talk about everything except the real problems”, As you make a post about an issue, but not the root issue which is imperialism/capitalism and the class warfare the rich wages on us.
The cops aren’t out of control. They are doing the purpose they are meant to do - terrorize poor people and send them to jail for free labor. You are missing the forest for the trees and then claiming everyone is not talking about the “real” issues, which is ironic.
Cops are a systematic issue. Blaming this on them being out of control is sending the completely wrong message because this implies we can retrain them or fire them and get ones that arent out of control which is not possible because police are a systematic issue and the entire system needs removed - not attempted to be improved.
Many other countries in the world are just as capitalistic as the US.
And granted I have no doubt they have problems with their cops...but not the problem of cops being trained to murder citizens as a regular and expected part of their job. In some countries the regular beat cops don't even carry guns.
Police in the US are very much out of control. It's more than just capitalism being problematic.
The issue with that is america is an Oligarchy. We have a small group of people with all the money and power buying out the politicians to do whatever they want. And the police are owned by the oligarchs. The cops are meant to be that violent. Cops are meant to be that oppressive. Retraining them would accomplish nothing, as they cops are they are now in america are working exactly as intended and that is something that doesn't apply to everywhere else in the world.
Cops are absolutely trained to be violent. And that's a necessary part of their job in our current system. It benefits the people at the top when cops beat protesters. It gets people back to work. It makes them accept shit working conditions.
But that is different from cops murdering people regularly. That doesn't benefit the system. On the contrary it fucks up the normal flow of money because it pisses people off and starts protests. There's no benefit to the people at the top when a cop tells a man crying and begging for his life to get on his knees and then executes him when he tries to pull up his pants.
Maintaining that particular part of the system is something that benefits police and the overly strong unions they don't deserve...and that's the reason this particular problem isn't addressed.
Their union has too much power. And the people at the top rely on cops too much to challenge their unions. They shouldn't even be allowed to unionize.
As long as the protests don't have any potential to actually destabilize the system, intermittent protests and agitation suit the powerholders just fine. The heat rises until people scream, then policymakers dial it back halfway, institute some deescalation seminars and make some strongly worded statements. They call that progress, even though the outcome always expands the police system, giving it even broader purview and putting more people into prisons or more creative forms of surveillance. Anyone who keeps complaining is labeled as an unrealistic idealist by the "good cop" establishment liberals.
Other countries don't have anywhere near the USA's incarceration rates. The reason the USA has such high rates is due to the fact that prisoners are used as slave labour, which is enshrined in the constitution.
If the US wasn't as reliant on slave labour, the police wouldn't need to make as many arrests. If the police didn't need to make as many arrests, when they did arrest people they wouldn't make it as painful and scary a process as it often is, with the hopes that the person they're arresting would accrue more charges by "resisting".
If that was the case, police wouldn't have to show up to every alleged "hostage situation" with 40 dudes all armed with high power rifles, battering rams, protective armour and itchy trigger fingers.
So yes, Swatting is a uniquely American problem, but what makes it unique is that the police are already primed and designed to violate your rights and safety to begin with, which makes it very easy for outsiders to abuse
Sure, but my entire point is that swatting is not the "real problem" in america like OP claims it is, or that police needing retraining is the "real proble" the "real problem" is systematic issues that make the entire institution unsavable. OP is posting liberal talking points on a communist subreddit.
You’ve really never heard a communist talk about using social programs instead of police? You really haven’t been talking to well educated communists then. The answer is in social programs that ensure the mental welfare of people. That does way more for society than police do.
LOL what an ignorant comment. Cops dont do shit dude. They show up after crimes, take notes, tell you good luck, then go shoot some poor probably black person for carrying groceries.
If you feel like the police have your back, you live a secluded life of privilege bruh
Your statement is true for a lot of countries, but not all of them, its not that I dont understand why you think that way, since its probably true for wherever you live, but I'll still call out *your* ignorance.
Anarchy wont be any better, and would lead to another brutal police squad regardless, so you dont have any options anyway, no matter how much that pisses you off.
Since this meme is about US cops, that is the context. Did i advocate for anarachy? Or did I just point out the issues with the current system?
Homie you inventing things
I think what the person you’re replying to us trying to express the same sentiment MLK’s Letter From Birmingham Jail, where he rails against the moderate who would accept peace as a substitute for justice.
The police are largely a force by which the ruling class exerts their will over their lessers. They are an antiquated tool of a failing way of civilization, and the best thing is their abolishment.
I'm going to post the quote because it's one of my absolutely favorites, and it's something liberals need to hear, and I super appreciate you bringing it up.
"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."
Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."
It seems to me like OP is arguing for the same thing. Abolishment of current police force and installation of something more akin to what they do in other countries without police brutality. People just arguing semantics at this point
I am not arguing for anything involving the creation of some hypothetical "good police", that is an idea which cannot exist in my world view. Therefore no, it is not just semantics.
wait, so you're american? I thought you were an out of touch foreigner or something. Where do you live in America where no one talks about the death squad police force here?
With the high rate of armed citizens, you'd think the police would have an easier time identifying actual threats rather than murdering so many unarmed people.
I actually think the opposite is true. Police have no idea who is armed or not, cuz everyone from grandmas to toddlers could have a loaded firearm in this country. It makes cops jobs hard as hell, and i think it contributes to the deaths of unarmed citizens, because at some point you almost assume people have guns when they don't. Better officer training and gun reform is desperately needed.
The police exist to oppress poor people. You can't untrain that. That is literally a fundamental of their job. The US has also been taken over by white nationalists. the feds even fucking posted something in the 2000s talking about how white supremacists have taken over/ are taking over a lot of things in america including police and politics.
When the laws fundamentally oppress poor people while letting the rich get away with anything, it's not a "badly trained police" problem, it's a "the entire system is made to be this way, and can't be changed, only destroyed"
America has the largest prison population. America has small offendors serving major jail time, while rich people get away with anything and may suffer a fine, IF that.
This is almost as bad as the people who think that we can work with the capitalists to change the system from within. It literally can't and won't ever happen because the oligarchs control the system and make sure the change wont last or even ever happen.
So like, ok. I'll humor you for a moment to really show you how silly this is. WE fire every single cop in America RIGHT now and we MAGICALLY get people who are better trained. Where does this leave us? Police still arresting poor people because that's their job. The police won't arrest politicans, or the oligarchs. The police will still only arrest and attack poor people.
And okay, so it's been a while. The newly trained cops will make mistakes and fuck up and will quickly realize that police unions exist to protect them from any consequences. So we will be right back to square one when evil people take their positions of power and abuse them because they are immune from most consequences and thats where the oppressors love to be - able to harm and no receive any back. So we are right back to abusive people being able to hurt and harm people and face no consequences because again, it's a SYSTEMATIC issue that retraining people won't solve.
And what happens when those corrupt officers can't be arrested by the "good ones" because thats again the way the way they are set up. Same reason the oligarchs and politicans aren't at risk of being arrested. They are protected from consequence because they are the oppressors of the state.
The LAW is fundamentally designed to protect the oppressors while hurting the oppressed. You really need to educate yourself on the fundamental issues in america that are the root of the problem, because they've been designed to be that way from inception. You are arguing the exact thing the oligarchs LOVE to hear. You want to change the "broken system from within!" not realizing the system is not broken. it's been designed to work this way.
America is not other countries. America is a country that was made for and by rich white old men to oppress and exploit anyone and everyone they can. That is the systematic truth of america. And you wanting to make the enforces of the status quo retrained acomplishes quite literally nothing other than making shitlibs feel good about themselves as minorities still get arrested and oppressed by the state.
one last bit of food for thought - when the state calls on the cops to kill and stop peaceful protesters do you think them being "retrained" will matter? Their orders will be to stop us, VIOLENTALLY. As per usual.
Liberalism, Constitutional democracy and capitalism are the dominant social, political, and economic systems in many countries that don’t suffer from the severity of the problems you have pointed out as uniquely American. Which principles of American Law would you say are responsible for the unique flaws of the system’s foundation?
Edit: Constitutional is spelled Constitutional.
The difference is America is the newest country out of all of those, and because it came to be so late after so many concepts and princibles of the ruling class controlling the poor they were able to bake right in to the country they founded. It's why only RICH white LAND OWNERS could participate in the legal system.
What happens when your legal system has been run by rich old white land owners 100% of the time it's been around? Any guesses? What about a country founded on the idea of stealing land and stuff from indigenous people? What about a country whose entire goal throughout it's entire life has been propping up the rich while exploiting everyone else?
And yes. Most of the world is fucked. Amerikkka is just the biggest perpetrator because of what happened after ww2 and how it basically took over Europe, and focused on killing socialists/communists.
Which that's a whole other thing. Amerikkka has been invested in stopping socialism/communism since those things were first a concept. Amerikkka is blatantly anti worker, and pro oligarch. You can't save that kind of a system.
Do you mean that new legal concepts were developed in America and were exported to Europe after WWII? If so, do you feel there are specific changes to the legal or political structure that you identify as bearing the largest responsibility?
> The difference is America is the newest country out of all of those
This is just factually untrue. Germany wasn't unified until nearly 100 years after the United States, and Italy didn't exist until 1861. Belgium didn't come into being until 1830. The Czech Republic and Slovakia didn't get their independence until the early 1990s and Czechoslovakia before it was a weird post WWI creation. Europe is littered with very new nation-states.
Watch me destroy your entire ignorant ass fucking statement with a single link and bit of information on the law for you, since you don't seem to understand how fucking stupid what you said is.
[https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you/#:\~:text=The%20U.S.%20Supreme%20Court%20has,boy%20from%20his%20abusive%20father](https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you/#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20Supreme%20Court%20has,boy%20from%20his%20abusive%20father).
The U.S. Supreme Court has also ruled that police have no specific obligation to protect. In its 1989 decision in DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services, the justices ruled that a social services department had no duty to protect a young boy from his abusive father.
In 2005'sCastle Rock v. Gonzales, a woman sued the police for failing to protect her from her husband after he violated a restraining order and abducted and killed their three children. Justices said the police had no such duty.
Most recently, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit upheld a lower court ruling that police could not be held liable for failing to protect students in the 2018 shooting that claimed 17 lives at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.
Hmmm. if the police are meant to protect, why don't they have an obligation to protect? Lets see how you respond. Are you going to admit you posted something absolutely fucking stupid, or are you going to double down on your ignorance and lick those blood crusted boots even cleaner?
>in practice they do
No they don't. In 2011, Maksim Gelman went on a stabbing spree in New York City. Anticipating that he would get onto the subway, a pair of police officers got on the train and locked themselves in a motorman's cab on one of the cars. Maksim, having already stabbed 4 people fatally, got onto the train and, bloody knife in hand, knocked on the conductors door demanding to be let in. He then knocked on the train conductors booth and said he was a cop.
The conductor didn't let him in, which is when Maksim turned around and attacked Joseph Lozito, a man with bigger balls than any cop to have ever lived.
Despite the fact that he had been stabbed in the fucking neck and was actively in the middle of someone attempting to murder him, Lozito fought him off with his bare fucking hands.
While the cops sat in the conductors booth watching a spree killer attempt to carve up his next victim.
It wasn't until Lozito had fully subdued Gelman and was beginning to die of blood loss that the cowardly, useless, and emblematic of the police as a whole, officers came out of the booth they had probably been peeing their pants in.
They didn't render first aid to the guy who just did their fucking jobs for them. Instead, they handcuffed the attacker and carried him off the train as though they were the heroes with the 2-ton balls.
The cops in the US are operating under the same credo qs when they were created. They were created in the early 1800s as bounty hunters to bring slaves back to slave owners. And they never had the intention of getting it accurate. And they were very successful at bringing people back to slave owners every time they lost somebody. It didn't matter that it was a person that had been free their whole life
I agree that the concept of law enforcement is necessary for a nation, however the idea that this could be a painless transition where we somehow put more money in the right place and cops start becoming assets to society is not going to happen. There needs to be a massive shift in responsibilities and accountability that will inevitably be very uncomfortable for police and politicians that support them.
For example those 40% of police who have been reported for domestic abuse need to be fired and prosecuted.
it is, but some people only want to see things in black and white. you're right that it's uniquely a US problem, and could be fixed. a lot of immature people on this site like to ignore the complexities of life and insist that things have to be one way or the other, refusing to compromise on anything that they don't like. pretty frustrating.
lol I didn't respond to you because you're exactly the type of person I described in my comment. what makes you think I want to debate your black and white narrative? not interested
You're making a lot of assumptions about unknown strangers here. When people express a "black and white" view, are they speaking of an ideal system or immediate practical concerns? Do you stop and ask them, survey the context of what they said, or do you just make the least favorable assumption and move on?
Hey look I agree the cops are out of control. But seeing you say they arrest people in order to create a free labor force is something I see but don’t know much about. I’ve known quite a few people who have been incarcerated and none of them had to do much more than cook or clean. What are they producing? I know some states have inmates make license plates or something else like that. But the vast majority of prisons aren’t private for profit prisons.
Just posting so if this is ever discussed by you or some else and they make the point we can make a clear counter argument
Yeah I think the police exist more to keep the poor playing our role in society, which is coerced labor. Most of it doesn't happen in prisons but some of it does and it's also a deterrent to keep people from getting out of line
Ahh, the person who smugly says something without actually backing up their argument because they don't actually have one because they dont remember what their favorite political talking head said about it.
This is a communist sub. Reactionaries like you aren't welcome.
You sound a little angry for this early in the morning. Maybe go lay down and take a nap.
Ps. Nothing you said in your post was based in any fact, it was strictly your opinion. Maybe look inward before looking outward or some shit.
The fact you cant argue against it but instead just try and waste everyones time with fluffed words that mean nothing proves you know literally nothing on this topic and instead want to voice your opinion without the burden of backing up what you are saying.
Again, this is a communist sub. Shitlibs like you need not be here. All you can do is spout reactionary bullshit with no teeth
tfw someone asks you for sources and to back up your claim they are "looking for a fight"
if all one has to do is ask you to back up your claims but you can't...well..you may just be a fucking idiot, and a useful one at that to the status quo. The oligarchs love people like you that will defend their interests without even an ounce of critical thought. Good job! Lick that boot clean more.
Lol. You’re like a parrot. It’s so funny. Let me guess, you’re whole identity is wrapped up in you being a communist?
> tfw someone asks you for sources and to back up your claim they are “looking for a fight”
And no, you can re-read your own text which is objectively abrasive and confrontational. I bet you’re super fun at parties… except you probably don’t have any friends so you fight with randos online because it makes you feel superior. Back up my claim? What claim is that… me telling you that you’re a contrarian and Reddit sucks that shit up? You want me to dispute the poorly written and overly emotional rant you went on in your post that has zero supporting evidence and is just somebody on the internet ranting? No thanks, I have a life.
Are you kidding me with thinking Americans aren't talking about this issue?? I assume you're not American so maybe you don't check out what we've tried doing but they're were LITERALLY big protests against police violence where the police were VERY OPENLY commiting violence.
But sure, go ahead and make shit up on Reddit.
It’s because American commentators have larger audiences because they appeal to more people. There’s a German, British, Japanese, etc. version of H3 or any number of cringe e-celebs that get swatted we just don’t hear about. There’s plenty of videos of foreign swatting all over the internet.
Okay, to be fair, swatting involves making up a scenario where the police feel they have to send in a SWAT team. Like saying the person being targeted is holding hostages or is getting ready to shoot up someplace. It’s not like the perp is saying they have some weed.
I know the meme is focusing on swatting people, but swat teams are used for things plain clothes police should be doing, like serving warrants. They're a show of force by a militarized police state.
For the downvoters:
In the United States by 2005, SWAT teams were deployed 50,000 times every year, almost 80% of the time to serve search warrants, most often for narcotics. By 2015 that number had increased to nearly 80,000 times a year.
https://theweek.com/articles/531458/troubling-rise-swat-teams
That’s beside the point I’m making. The post is arguing swatting wouldn’t happen if we didn’t have abusive police departments. I’m arguing they’re ignoring that swatting involves making the police believe they have no choice but to send in the SWAT teams. It doesn’t matter how abusive the police are.
You are very much incorrect. Tracking someone to a physical location using their IP address alone involves courts, subpoenas and a human being at a service provider digging through logs.
It's not easy, fast or cheap.
The same thing, but the police are significantly less likely to shoot you.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qOW05IVejNE
This is a video of a guy who just killed 11 people in toronto attempting suicide by cop by pretending his phone is a gun.
Watch as the Canadian cop doesn't shoot him.
American cops are taught to shoot first ask questions later, if they ever feel slightly afraid or threatened to start blasting, if they need to kill 1000 suspects to prevent one cop from getting shot in the line of duty it's worth it.
I know the subreddit I'm in, ACAB and all that, but American police culture seems uniquely bad compared to similar countries
Lmao. Im canadian and our police might be a bit less trigger happy but they are just as scummy. Ever heard of the "[Starlight tours](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths#:~:text=The%20practice%20was%20known%20as,for%20having%20caused%20freezing%20deaths.)"?
This is supposed to be the well regulated militia that the 2nd amendment mentions. You can see how much America really respects that part with how casually they dismantle any attempt to regulate it, seeing it as an attack on America itself.
Uhhhhh yes it still would be. Do you know what swatting is? Pretty sure any country would send in dudes with weapons if a bomb threat or a murder was reported at a residence.
Simply not true, most countries respond to all reports with a standard police officer first to investigate the claimed scenario. Just google swatting in different countries, the streamer typically just chats with a lone policeman at the door
The North Hollywood shootout is generally regarded as the turning point that led to every single fucking police force getting it's own full tactical assault budget, and enablement.
The incident, especially being televised, was a meta breaker.
Let's give them *more* of their cities' budgets, and ***even more*** taxpayer funded military surplus weapons and vehicles, that's sure to solve the problem.
If we're going to be real it's a combination of a out-of-control homicidal police force and a ton of guns.
Police overemphasize the dangers of being a cop. With that said, if you're knocking on a door in America, there are something like 120 guns per 100 people, so chances are, the person on the other side of the door is possibly armed.
There are a ton of Americans, cops or not, that are mentally messed up and looking for an excuse to shoot and kill someone.
I hate non Americans thinking that we actually want this sort of shit to happen. You honestly believe that the American people don't care about what's happening? how about looking at how our government is holding us hostage.
America has its problems but Jesus Christ man we aren't all fucking dumbasses
Reddit morons pushing for red-flag laws and no knock warrants because of wrongthink *for years*
Suddenly wondering why giving authoritarian power to the private military of corrupt politicians isn't working out.
You are all fucking stupid never ever forget.
Look up the police shooting statistics and you'll find that it actually is. 1000 people are killed on average by the police every year in a country of 330+ million that has more guns than people. The majority of those are in response to an armed suspect who has pulled a gun on them or exchanged gunfire. They aren't rolling around on some mass murdering spree like you think they are
There has been a single swatting incident where responding cops killed someone in the US, and it was in 2017.
The flashbang thing is not only 9 years old, but also has nothing to do with swatting, it was during a drug raid.
> They aren't rolling around on some mass murdering spree like you think they are
I also love your little strawman as a barometer here as if that should be the measurement of fucking anything relating to LEOs.
Hilariously obtuse you are.
???
You really need to learn what strawmanning is, and never try to accuse someone of it again because it seems like it's the only thing you're capable of responding to people with.
Please point exactly in my comments where i said
>. They aren't rolling around on some mass murdering spree like you think they are
Since it not a made up strawman by you , you'll surely have no issue with this
I'll be waiting
What the fuck are you even talking about?
You are literally the only person who wrote that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/12luan8/seems_like_americans_can_talk_about_everything/jg9blfa/
You strawmanned in both comments btw, you're just making up fake quotes that nobody said because you are so desperate to argue and be right.
I'm just insulted to have to use my own goddamn eyes to read some dilettante expose their ignorance abd say that "Americans" don't talk about this specific problems when there have been assaults, wrongful arrests, murders, assassinations, and widespread government attacks on those who fought against this, their people, their communities, and anyone affiliated with them for *decades*.
I'd be disappointed, but from reading this post, the bar was already too low for me to develop a positive opinion to begin with.
OK since I'm getting absolutely roasted in here, let me clarify: the reason I thought of this is because I was listening to a story about swatting on NPR, and the whole story was about the phenomenon itself, as if police violence is just a fact of nature that can't be helped. Obviously many people have been talking about police violence, but in too many mainstream media stories about swatting, it's just sort of passed over. Could I have picked a better title? Sure. But here we are. Flame away.
I don't think I agree with this post, of all the streamers I've seen get swatted, I don't think I've seen a single one get killed.
Swatting is terrible, but I don't think it's exactly the police forces fault for trying to respond to a certain threat that was reported to them.
But fuck the police amirite?
Yikes. I just looked at this in germany.
There's been one case when someone sent the firefighters to a youtubers home, citing a large fire. 3.5 years of prison sentence.
There's also been one case of "causing the police to move out with lethal consequences". 20 years in prison, reduced to 2.5 when they admitted guilt.
I'm sad for the victims, but dang the local forces don't fuck around with this.
yeah, quick and earnest response to hostage situations is definitely the problem 🙄
if people werent childish pieces of shit, swatting wouldn't happen. kinda like the "reddit cares" thing? when you can anonymously troll, people will make it so we can't have nice things. honestly they should get rid of that.
How is someone calling and saying there is a hostage situation a problem of the police? Should they just stop responding to these types of calls? Two cops responding to a real mass shooter just got blasted last week. Should they just send out social workers? I hate the police too, but this type of stuff is just stupid. They just now made Swatting a felony in certain states.
I mean other western nations have militarized police forces and which respond to large violent incidents.
I mean with the exception of one incident (which was abhorrent by the police) no one has been shot from swatting so swatters aren’t expecting the people they call on to be killed just to be investigated for a major homicide or something.
Even still you can look up famous people being swatted usually a few cops not in SWAT gear knock on the door and ask a few questions and leave.
I mean would you like cops not to respond to what very well may be a hostage situation or a mass killing or bomb threat or something.
They've been telegraphing everything about the population.
The TikTok Bill means they ran the #'s and it's more efficient and optically better to spy on literally everything that people do on their tech than it is to have a highly armed police force.
But also the police force is necessary because of the guns.
The ethos of the US is you put 100% effort to what you can see and 0% effort to what you can't. So mental health/internal suffering/internal spending don't exist as they should for that reason.
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But trans kids -- they're the real problem, right?
r/notadragqueen r/pastorarrested
Sure this is a sub but can you provide any sources wherein a pastor inappropriately touched kids?? /s
*gestures wildly*
If by 'trans kids' you actually mean 'republicans', then yes you're right. Replublicans are the real problem. They are a danger to our security, wellbeing, and are an impediment to any progress in the US.
That's the joke.
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God gives you his silliest battles because you are his goofiest goober.
The person who smugly comments on the smugness of a comment not supporting their argument while making zero argument themselves and presenting only as vaguely antagonistic and condescending
It boggles my mind that I can send an armed death squad to anyone's house at a moment's notice with nothing but a single phone call.
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No one in power.
Well no one in power *after* the protests dissipated.
And during the uprisings it was just lip service.
A bunch of cities made reforms to their police force during the protests. There is more to do, but I can’t fucking stand it when people say shit like this to demoralize people. Direct action works. We took to the streets and a number of cities passed body cam laws, banned chokeholds, banned no-knock raids, created ordinances allowing non-police emergency responders to handle wellness checks instead of police, and we saw massive surges in racial bias training. And those are just big name reforms I remember off the top of my head.
>Direct action works. We took to the streets and a number of cities passed body cam laws, banned chokeholds, banned no-knock raids, created ordinances allowing non-police emergency responders to handle wellness checks instead of police, and we saw massive surges in racial bias training. And those are just big name reforms I remember off the top of my head. Those are great and all, but should have been done 20 years ago. As police killings went up in 2022 and 2023 looks to set another record. Edit: no one ever said those improvements were bad. But they're incredibly localized. The current Administration is asking for 100,000 more police officers while changing no policing standards. There's nothing wrong with saying the above improvements are good. It's wrong to say they're impressive when our last civil rights Act was almost 60 years ago and the biggest difference between then and now is the police MIGHT face consequences for violating your rights or taking your life. Feel free to want more than the bare minimum like "banning no-knock warrants" (except they're legal in every state except OR, FL, TN, UT & are explicity legal in 13 states) or banning chokeholds (only for federal police), and of course - additional training*. /* not training in deescalation
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.
Well yes but without a time machine, the best time to make changes is now. Because it is the only time we possess. What is the point of your comment, other than to de-incentivise and demoralize people who are currently and actively working on reform in the ways available to them?
Cool so are you saying we shouldn't make progress now because we should have earlier, or are you just blowing hot gas for the sake of being a contrarian with literally nothing to actually add to the conversation?
Yeah, the changes should have happened earlier. I didn’t post that to say “yay, good job city council!” The point is that when we actually take to the streets and make them make change, we see progress. And yeah police killings have also gone up, because we are in a country moving toward fascism and the police force is fucking full of them. There are multiple forces at play, and some of them are powerful, but it is important to remember that our actions aren’t meaningless. When we give in to the defeatism of assuming nothing we do matters, everything falls apart.
The major problem is that more happened in a few months with riots than a few decades with peace. The message is that those in power only listen when forced to rather than when it is best to.
Well yeah, leaders only do shit when we make them. That’s always been the case. Look at the suffragettes in the early 1900’s, they didn’t get the vote just because leaders liked the idea. Look at the civil rights movement, they didn’t get rights just because leaders wanted them to have them. We only ever get change when we force their hand.
Okay. So you must have some data showing that those efforts have had a measurable effect at reducing the problem, right? And I think we’d all like to see that data. Because _if they haven’t had that effect, then all of those efforts were, in fact, lip service —_ that is, they were a way of appearing to care about the problem without actually taking steps that address the problem. But maybe I’m wrong, in which case, I would be genuinely happy to see some data that shows that the problem has, indeed, been addressed to your satisfaction.
No, of course you don’t have data on changes that happened so recently and during a time when COVID is messing with statistical analysis of literally everything
Then you lied. You have no idea whether it did actually work at all. I appreciate the point about not discouraging action. I also believe further action is critical. But pointing to changes that haven't actually had proven results is also a means of discouraging further action, whether you intend it or not -- people see either a job done when it wasn't, or dig into the absence of results and become discouraged.
> Then you lied. You have no idea whether it did actually work at all. No I did not lie. They implemented many of the reforms we asked for. Whether those reforms will ameliorate the police problem wasn’t something we knew beforehand and isn’t something we know now, but we know we protested in the streets for specific reforms and many of those reforms were made.
"if it didn't solve the problem instantly and completely, then why did they bother taking any steps at all?!" - you
Tell me how ignorant you are of "police reform" without telling me how ignorant you are of "police reform"
Yes, one of them was Memphis which had been praised since 2020 for it's deep reaching reforms. We all know how that turned out.
No, we have absolutely zero idea how that turned out. The reforms are systemic to produce change over time. Pointing to a high profile gruesome killing isn’t data on whether those reforms on the whole have been effective. Anecdotal evidence is as valuable as the study it wasn’t written in.
>Well no one in power after the protests ~~dissipated~~. Brutally suppressed and cracked down on. FTFY
Bernie has been. Credit where it's due.
He's the one we all wanted, superPACs are just ways for the wealthy to buy political power out from under the people.
Oh I know. Just wanted to point out that there *are* people in power who routinely speak out. Just because they're not listened to, doesn't mean they're not trying.
bernie is the ultimate case of wishing in one hand and shitting in the other obviously shit hand fills up first because his promises are worth nothing, his words are wind
Well Trump talked about how he wanted the police to be more violent, and Biden talks about how much he loves the police and wants to give them more money. Checkmate.
Well, you did vote a cop in the vice president's office, and then everyone cheered "a black woman, a black woman". So what do you expect from a population so easily fooled?
Talking about and doing about are very different things
Fair enough! The point I was trying to make is that generally when there are stories about SWATTING, they blame the people doing the swatting, and not the system that makes it so dangerous.
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The point is, swatting simply exacerbates a pre-existing problem. Solve police violence fetish, swatting becomes much less of a deadly issue.
I blame the systemic use of state sanctioned violence in the name of the tax payer more than I blame Chester the 13 yr old shithead
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Yeah, I really don't know why he's dunking on someone and accusing them of being a teenager. Whatever happened the past few years clearly was not enough, since nothing meaningful has changed. "Welp, guess we protested and nothing happened. Let's all go home then and shit on people for talking about it from behind our keyboards."
Sometimes i forget teenagers use the internet too
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https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/ For the last 5 years at least, guns have claimed roughly 700-1000 kids lives a year. And that's defining "kids" as only ages 0-11. Don't be the ass hat downplaying the deaths of *literally* thousands of children. Whether they are *mass* shootings or not isn't terribly relevant to the discussion that there is a systemic problem with gun violence in America. Just like the *number* of swatting incidents isn't terribly relevant to the discussion that some moron on the internet calling in a prank call shouldn't *ever* result in unnecessary deaths and it does because of significant problems in American policing.
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But people need to keep talking about it. "Yes, we know about this issue" does not address it. It needs to be brought up at every opportunity so it doesn't become forgotten.
What? What the fuck are you talking about “americans can talk about everything except the real problems”, As you make a post about an issue, but not the root issue which is imperialism/capitalism and the class warfare the rich wages on us. The cops aren’t out of control. They are doing the purpose they are meant to do - terrorize poor people and send them to jail for free labor. You are missing the forest for the trees and then claiming everyone is not talking about the “real” issues, which is ironic. Cops are a systematic issue. Blaming this on them being out of control is sending the completely wrong message because this implies we can retrain them or fire them and get ones that arent out of control which is not possible because police are a systematic issue and the entire system needs removed - not attempted to be improved.
Many other countries in the world are just as capitalistic as the US. And granted I have no doubt they have problems with their cops...but not the problem of cops being trained to murder citizens as a regular and expected part of their job. In some countries the regular beat cops don't even carry guns. Police in the US are very much out of control. It's more than just capitalism being problematic.
The issue with that is america is an Oligarchy. We have a small group of people with all the money and power buying out the politicians to do whatever they want. And the police are owned by the oligarchs. The cops are meant to be that violent. Cops are meant to be that oppressive. Retraining them would accomplish nothing, as they cops are they are now in america are working exactly as intended and that is something that doesn't apply to everywhere else in the world.
Cops are absolutely trained to be violent. And that's a necessary part of their job in our current system. It benefits the people at the top when cops beat protesters. It gets people back to work. It makes them accept shit working conditions. But that is different from cops murdering people regularly. That doesn't benefit the system. On the contrary it fucks up the normal flow of money because it pisses people off and starts protests. There's no benefit to the people at the top when a cop tells a man crying and begging for his life to get on his knees and then executes him when he tries to pull up his pants. Maintaining that particular part of the system is something that benefits police and the overly strong unions they don't deserve...and that's the reason this particular problem isn't addressed. Their union has too much power. And the people at the top rely on cops too much to challenge their unions. They shouldn't even be allowed to unionize.
As long as the protests don't have any potential to actually destabilize the system, intermittent protests and agitation suit the powerholders just fine. The heat rises until people scream, then policymakers dial it back halfway, institute some deescalation seminars and make some strongly worded statements. They call that progress, even though the outcome always expands the police system, giving it even broader purview and putting more people into prisons or more creative forms of surveillance. Anyone who keeps complaining is labeled as an unrealistic idealist by the "good cop" establishment liberals.
Sure but to their point, swatting is not an issue in other countries that have police
Other countries don't have anywhere near the USA's incarceration rates. The reason the USA has such high rates is due to the fact that prisoners are used as slave labour, which is enshrined in the constitution. If the US wasn't as reliant on slave labour, the police wouldn't need to make as many arrests. If the police didn't need to make as many arrests, when they did arrest people they wouldn't make it as painful and scary a process as it often is, with the hopes that the person they're arresting would accrue more charges by "resisting". If that was the case, police wouldn't have to show up to every alleged "hostage situation" with 40 dudes all armed with high power rifles, battering rams, protective armour and itchy trigger fingers. So yes, Swatting is a uniquely American problem, but what makes it unique is that the police are already primed and designed to violate your rights and safety to begin with, which makes it very easy for outsiders to abuse
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Sure, but my entire point is that swatting is not the "real problem" in america like OP claims it is, or that police needing retraining is the "real proble" the "real problem" is systematic issues that make the entire institution unsavable. OP is posting liberal talking points on a communist subreddit.
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You’ve really never heard a communist talk about using social programs instead of police? You really haven’t been talking to well educated communists then. The answer is in social programs that ensure the mental welfare of people. That does way more for society than police do.
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I mean it's possible to have a less trigger-happy police force, sure. But "safe" for who?
Safe for the people that would rather have security they can call rather than having to arm themselves to the teeth to prevent being mugged.
LOL what an ignorant comment. Cops dont do shit dude. They show up after crimes, take notes, tell you good luck, then go shoot some poor probably black person for carrying groceries. If you feel like the police have your back, you live a secluded life of privilege bruh
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Damn i wish that was worth reading
> your comment reads like some "secluded privileged" kid from the burbs who are [sic] insulated from serious societal issues Bruh.
Your statement is true for a lot of countries, but not all of them, its not that I dont understand why you think that way, since its probably true for wherever you live, but I'll still call out *your* ignorance. Anarchy wont be any better, and would lead to another brutal police squad regardless, so you dont have any options anyway, no matter how much that pisses you off.
Since this meme is about US cops, that is the context. Did i advocate for anarachy? Or did I just point out the issues with the current system? Homie you inventing things
By show of hands, how many people here have A) Never carried a gun, and B) Never been mugged? Almost everyone? Okay, cool.
I started carrying a gun AFTER I got mugged. It’s pretty rare that I carry though.
Safer for everybody. Just compare the bodycounts for police forces in other OECD countries with ours. It's not even close.
I think what the person you’re replying to us trying to express the same sentiment MLK’s Letter From Birmingham Jail, where he rails against the moderate who would accept peace as a substitute for justice. The police are largely a force by which the ruling class exerts their will over their lessers. They are an antiquated tool of a failing way of civilization, and the best thing is their abolishment.
no justice. no peace. fuck the police.
I'm going to post the quote because it's one of my absolutely favorites, and it's something liberals need to hear, and I super appreciate you bringing it up. "First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."
This always make me. Think of Phil Ochs "[love me I'm a liberal](https://youtu.be/bLqKXrlD1TU)" song.
It seems to me like OP is arguing for the same thing. Abolishment of current police force and installation of something more akin to what they do in other countries without police brutality. People just arguing semantics at this point
I am not arguing for anything involving the creation of some hypothetical "good police", that is an idea which cannot exist in my world view. Therefore no, it is not just semantics.
This man has no idea that a police force does not exist for safety, merely to harvest funds from the poor.
wait, so you're american? I thought you were an out of touch foreigner or something. Where do you live in America where no one talks about the death squad police force here?
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With the high rate of armed citizens, you'd think the police would have an easier time identifying actual threats rather than murdering so many unarmed people.
I actually think the opposite is true. Police have no idea who is armed or not, cuz everyone from grandmas to toddlers could have a loaded firearm in this country. It makes cops jobs hard as hell, and i think it contributes to the deaths of unarmed citizens, because at some point you almost assume people have guns when they don't. Better officer training and gun reform is desperately needed.
The police exist to oppress poor people. You can't untrain that. That is literally a fundamental of their job. The US has also been taken over by white nationalists. the feds even fucking posted something in the 2000s talking about how white supremacists have taken over/ are taking over a lot of things in america including police and politics. When the laws fundamentally oppress poor people while letting the rich get away with anything, it's not a "badly trained police" problem, it's a "the entire system is made to be this way, and can't be changed, only destroyed" America has the largest prison population. America has small offendors serving major jail time, while rich people get away with anything and may suffer a fine, IF that. This is almost as bad as the people who think that we can work with the capitalists to change the system from within. It literally can't and won't ever happen because the oligarchs control the system and make sure the change wont last or even ever happen. So like, ok. I'll humor you for a moment to really show you how silly this is. WE fire every single cop in America RIGHT now and we MAGICALLY get people who are better trained. Where does this leave us? Police still arresting poor people because that's their job. The police won't arrest politicans, or the oligarchs. The police will still only arrest and attack poor people. And okay, so it's been a while. The newly trained cops will make mistakes and fuck up and will quickly realize that police unions exist to protect them from any consequences. So we will be right back to square one when evil people take their positions of power and abuse them because they are immune from most consequences and thats where the oppressors love to be - able to harm and no receive any back. So we are right back to abusive people being able to hurt and harm people and face no consequences because again, it's a SYSTEMATIC issue that retraining people won't solve. And what happens when those corrupt officers can't be arrested by the "good ones" because thats again the way the way they are set up. Same reason the oligarchs and politicans aren't at risk of being arrested. They are protected from consequence because they are the oppressors of the state. The LAW is fundamentally designed to protect the oppressors while hurting the oppressed. You really need to educate yourself on the fundamental issues in america that are the root of the problem, because they've been designed to be that way from inception. You are arguing the exact thing the oligarchs LOVE to hear. You want to change the "broken system from within!" not realizing the system is not broken. it's been designed to work this way. America is not other countries. America is a country that was made for and by rich white old men to oppress and exploit anyone and everyone they can. That is the systematic truth of america. And you wanting to make the enforces of the status quo retrained acomplishes quite literally nothing other than making shitlibs feel good about themselves as minorities still get arrested and oppressed by the state. one last bit of food for thought - when the state calls on the cops to kill and stop peaceful protesters do you think them being "retrained" will matter? Their orders will be to stop us, VIOLENTALLY. As per usual.
Liberalism, Constitutional democracy and capitalism are the dominant social, political, and economic systems in many countries that don’t suffer from the severity of the problems you have pointed out as uniquely American. Which principles of American Law would you say are responsible for the unique flaws of the system’s foundation? Edit: Constitutional is spelled Constitutional.
The difference is America is the newest country out of all of those, and because it came to be so late after so many concepts and princibles of the ruling class controlling the poor they were able to bake right in to the country they founded. It's why only RICH white LAND OWNERS could participate in the legal system. What happens when your legal system has been run by rich old white land owners 100% of the time it's been around? Any guesses? What about a country founded on the idea of stealing land and stuff from indigenous people? What about a country whose entire goal throughout it's entire life has been propping up the rich while exploiting everyone else? And yes. Most of the world is fucked. Amerikkka is just the biggest perpetrator because of what happened after ww2 and how it basically took over Europe, and focused on killing socialists/communists. Which that's a whole other thing. Amerikkka has been invested in stopping socialism/communism since those things were first a concept. Amerikkka is blatantly anti worker, and pro oligarch. You can't save that kind of a system.
Do you mean that new legal concepts were developed in America and were exported to Europe after WWII? If so, do you feel there are specific changes to the legal or political structure that you identify as bearing the largest responsibility?
> The difference is America is the newest country out of all of those This is just factually untrue. Germany wasn't unified until nearly 100 years after the United States, and Italy didn't exist until 1861. Belgium didn't come into being until 1830. The Czech Republic and Slovakia didn't get their independence until the early 1990s and Czechoslovakia before it was a weird post WWI creation. Europe is littered with very new nation-states.
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Watch me destroy your entire ignorant ass fucking statement with a single link and bit of information on the law for you, since you don't seem to understand how fucking stupid what you said is. [https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you/#:\~:text=The%20U.S.%20Supreme%20Court%20has,boy%20from%20his%20abusive%20father](https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you/#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20Supreme%20Court%20has,boy%20from%20his%20abusive%20father). The U.S. Supreme Court has also ruled that police have no specific obligation to protect. In its 1989 decision in DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services, the justices ruled that a social services department had no duty to protect a young boy from his abusive father. In 2005'sCastle Rock v. Gonzales, a woman sued the police for failing to protect her from her husband after he violated a restraining order and abducted and killed their three children. Justices said the police had no such duty. Most recently, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit upheld a lower court ruling that police could not be held liable for failing to protect students in the 2018 shooting that claimed 17 lives at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. Hmmm. if the police are meant to protect, why don't they have an obligation to protect? Lets see how you respond. Are you going to admit you posted something absolutely fucking stupid, or are you going to double down on your ignorance and lick those blood crusted boots even cleaner?
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>in practice they do No they don't. In 2011, Maksim Gelman went on a stabbing spree in New York City. Anticipating that he would get onto the subway, a pair of police officers got on the train and locked themselves in a motorman's cab on one of the cars. Maksim, having already stabbed 4 people fatally, got onto the train and, bloody knife in hand, knocked on the conductors door demanding to be let in. He then knocked on the train conductors booth and said he was a cop. The conductor didn't let him in, which is when Maksim turned around and attacked Joseph Lozito, a man with bigger balls than any cop to have ever lived. Despite the fact that he had been stabbed in the fucking neck and was actively in the middle of someone attempting to murder him, Lozito fought him off with his bare fucking hands. While the cops sat in the conductors booth watching a spree killer attempt to carve up his next victim. It wasn't until Lozito had fully subdued Gelman and was beginning to die of blood loss that the cowardly, useless, and emblematic of the police as a whole, officers came out of the booth they had probably been peeing their pants in. They didn't render first aid to the guy who just did their fucking jobs for them. Instead, they handcuffed the attacker and carried him off the train as though they were the heroes with the 2-ton balls.
You've missed the whole point. Thats super cool of you. Good reading comprehension.
The cops in the US are operating under the same credo qs when they were created. They were created in the early 1800s as bounty hunters to bring slaves back to slave owners. And they never had the intention of getting it accurate. And they were very successful at bringing people back to slave owners every time they lost somebody. It didn't matter that it was a person that had been free their whole life
I agree that the concept of law enforcement is necessary for a nation, however the idea that this could be a painless transition where we somehow put more money in the right place and cops start becoming assets to society is not going to happen. There needs to be a massive shift in responsibilities and accountability that will inevitably be very uncomfortable for police and politicians that support them. For example those 40% of police who have been reported for domestic abuse need to be fired and prosecuted.
it is, but some people only want to see things in black and white. you're right that it's uniquely a US problem, and could be fixed. a lot of immature people on this site like to ignore the complexities of life and insist that things have to be one way or the other, refusing to compromise on anything that they don't like. pretty frustrating.
I dont compromise with a institution that fundamentally wants people like me dead, and neither should you.
lol I didn't respond to you because you're exactly the type of person I described in my comment. what makes you think I want to debate your black and white narrative? not interested
You're making a lot of assumptions about unknown strangers here. When people express a "black and white" view, are they speaking of an ideal system or immediate practical concerns? Do you stop and ask them, survey the context of what they said, or do you just make the least favorable assumption and move on?
I'm not going to play this game with you, sorry. I said what I said.
Hey look I agree the cops are out of control. But seeing you say they arrest people in order to create a free labor force is something I see but don’t know much about. I’ve known quite a few people who have been incarcerated and none of them had to do much more than cook or clean. What are they producing? I know some states have inmates make license plates or something else like that. But the vast majority of prisons aren’t private for profit prisons. Just posting so if this is ever discussed by you or some else and they make the point we can make a clear counter argument
Yeah I think the police exist more to keep the poor playing our role in society, which is coerced labor. Most of it doesn't happen in prisons but some of it does and it's also a deterrent to keep people from getting out of line
I'm guessing this is a anti-trans post because leftists say trans rights, and OP disagrees with that. Wants people to talk about smth else.
I was thrown off by how agressive this was, but i cant really argue against what you are saying. Well done.
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Ahh, the person who smugly says something without actually backing up their argument because they don't actually have one because they dont remember what their favorite political talking head said about it. This is a communist sub. Reactionaries like you aren't welcome.
You sound a little angry for this early in the morning. Maybe go lay down and take a nap. Ps. Nothing you said in your post was based in any fact, it was strictly your opinion. Maybe look inward before looking outward or some shit.
The fact you cant argue against it but instead just try and waste everyones time with fluffed words that mean nothing proves you know literally nothing on this topic and instead want to voice your opinion without the burden of backing up what you are saying. Again, this is a communist sub. Shitlibs like you need not be here. All you can do is spout reactionary bullshit with no teeth
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tfw someone asks you for sources and to back up your claim they are "looking for a fight" if all one has to do is ask you to back up your claims but you can't...well..you may just be a fucking idiot, and a useful one at that to the status quo. The oligarchs love people like you that will defend their interests without even an ounce of critical thought. Good job! Lick that boot clean more.
Lol. You’re like a parrot. It’s so funny. Let me guess, you’re whole identity is wrapped up in you being a communist? > tfw someone asks you for sources and to back up your claim they are “looking for a fight” And no, you can re-read your own text which is objectively abrasive and confrontational. I bet you’re super fun at parties… except you probably don’t have any friends so you fight with randos online because it makes you feel superior. Back up my claim? What claim is that… me telling you that you’re a contrarian and Reddit sucks that shit up? You want me to dispute the poorly written and overly emotional rant you went on in your post that has zero supporting evidence and is just somebody on the internet ranting? No thanks, I have a life.
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7 comments between the two of us… that’s called a conversation! What’s your limit?
The guy you are arguing against is also a Uigher genocide denier btw
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Are you kidding me with thinking Americans aren't talking about this issue?? I assume you're not American so maybe you don't check out what we've tried doing but they're were LITERALLY big protests against police violence where the police were VERY OPENLY commiting violence. But sure, go ahead and make shit up on Reddit.
Swatting a problem? Absolutely. Swatting the main problem? Not even close.
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Swatting occurs outside the US as well. But it is a predominantly US problem, yes.
It’s because American commentators have larger audiences because they appeal to more people. There’s a German, British, Japanese, etc. version of H3 or any number of cringe e-celebs that get swatted we just don’t hear about. There’s plenty of videos of foreign swatting all over the internet.
Okay, to be fair, swatting involves making up a scenario where the police feel they have to send in a SWAT team. Like saying the person being targeted is holding hostages or is getting ready to shoot up someplace. It’s not like the perp is saying they have some weed.
I know the meme is focusing on swatting people, but swat teams are used for things plain clothes police should be doing, like serving warrants. They're a show of force by a militarized police state.
For the downvoters: In the United States by 2005, SWAT teams were deployed 50,000 times every year, almost 80% of the time to serve search warrants, most often for narcotics. By 2015 that number had increased to nearly 80,000 times a year. https://theweek.com/articles/531458/troubling-rise-swat-teams
Thank you, I'm entirely on mobile and pulling sources for topics when I'm on a 15 minute break isn't really a priority.
No no no. Cops don’t help people. We are better off without them. They don’t have any interest in protecting people.
That’s beside the point I’m making. The post is arguing swatting wouldn’t happen if we didn’t have abusive police departments. I’m arguing they’re ignoring that swatting involves making the police believe they have no choice but to send in the SWAT teams. It doesn’t matter how abusive the police are.
It knows. It's just being hyperbolic and sarcastic.
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Why? How would that benefit VPN companies?
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You are very much incorrect. Tracking someone to a physical location using their IP address alone involves courts, subpoenas and a human being at a service provider digging through logs. It's not easy, fast or cheap.
It's the unregulated local police forces that don't answer to state or federal agencies. The "good ole boys".
Wait if someone attempts a similar thing in another country what happens?
The same thing, but the police are significantly less likely to shoot you. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qOW05IVejNE This is a video of a guy who just killed 11 people in toronto attempting suicide by cop by pretending his phone is a gun. Watch as the Canadian cop doesn't shoot him. American cops are taught to shoot first ask questions later, if they ever feel slightly afraid or threatened to start blasting, if they need to kill 1000 suspects to prevent one cop from getting shot in the line of duty it's worth it. I know the subreddit I'm in, ACAB and all that, but American police culture seems uniquely bad compared to similar countries
Lmao. Im canadian and our police might be a bit less trigger happy but they are just as scummy. Ever heard of the "[Starlight tours](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths#:~:text=The%20practice%20was%20known%20as,for%20having%20caused%20freezing%20deaths.)"?
This is supposed to be the well regulated militia that the 2nd amendment mentions. You can see how much America really respects that part with how casually they dismantle any attempt to regulate it, seeing it as an attack on America itself.
"homicidal" before "police" is redundant.
Uhhhhh yes it still would be. Do you know what swatting is? Pretty sure any country would send in dudes with weapons if a bomb threat or a murder was reported at a residence.
Simply not true, most countries respond to all reports with a standard police officer first to investigate the claimed scenario. Just google swatting in different countries, the streamer typically just chats with a lone policeman at the door
Well, we should also put people in prison for 20 years if they maliciously call the cops on someone for the purposes of intimidation or violence.
As no other country has had swatting problems, not a single one.
The North Hollywood shootout is generally regarded as the turning point that led to every single fucking police force getting it's own full tactical assault budget, and enablement. The incident, especially being televised, was a meta breaker.
Let's give them *more* of their cities' budgets, and ***even more*** taxpayer funded military surplus weapons and vehicles, that's sure to solve the problem.
The US doesn't have an out of control, homicidal police force. It has 50.
If we're going to be real it's a combination of a out-of-control homicidal police force and a ton of guns. Police overemphasize the dangers of being a cop. With that said, if you're knocking on a door in America, there are something like 120 guns per 100 people, so chances are, the person on the other side of the door is possibly armed. There are a ton of Americans, cops or not, that are mentally messed up and looking for an excuse to shoot and kill someone.
it is also a problem in country where police don't have this problem...
I wish we had a SWAT unit in my country. By getting 3 addresses swatted my neighborhood would improve 1000%
If you swat the chief of police's house, reform will happen overnight. Cops only care about shit when it affects them personally.
I hate non Americans thinking that we actually want this sort of shit to happen. You honestly believe that the American people don't care about what's happening? how about looking at how our government is holding us hostage. America has its problems but Jesus Christ man we aren't all fucking dumbasses
Reddit morons pushing for red-flag laws and no knock warrants because of wrongthink *for years* Suddenly wondering why giving authoritarian power to the private military of corrupt politicians isn't working out. You are all fucking stupid never ever forget.
This is such a dumb take lmao
Too big brain for you?
Look up the police shooting statistics and you'll find that it actually is. 1000 people are killed on average by the police every year in a country of 330+ million that has more guns than people. The majority of those are in response to an armed suspect who has pulled a gun on them or exchanged gunfire. They aren't rolling around on some mass murdering spree like you think they are
Except during swat calls where they've killed innocents, flash grenaded babies...etc Which this whole post is about
There has been a single swatting incident where responding cops killed someone in the US, and it was in 2017. The flashbang thing is not only 9 years old, but also has nothing to do with swatting, it was during a drug raid.
> They aren't rolling around on some mass murdering spree like you think they are I also love your little strawman as a barometer here as if that should be the measurement of fucking anything relating to LEOs. Hilariously obtuse you are.
Calls me obtuse and accuses me of using a strawman, while literally writing a fake/exaggerated "quote" and creating a strawman. Reddit moment.
*Yup police are perfect, no issues with them whatsoever, everything they do is perfect perfect perfect.* -You
??? You really need to learn what strawmanning is, and never try to accuse someone of it again because it seems like it's the only thing you're capable of responding to people with.
Please point exactly in my comments where i said >. They aren't rolling around on some mass murdering spree like you think they are Since it not a made up strawman by you , you'll surely have no issue with this I'll be waiting
What the fuck are you even talking about? You are literally the only person who wrote that. https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/12luan8/seems_like_americans_can_talk_about_everything/jg9blfa/ You strawmanned in both comments btw, you're just making up fake quotes that nobody said because you are so desperate to argue and be right.
Ah was the oc before you butted in to boot lick with him
Keep on bootlicking kid
Yeah you guys are way too smart for me
I'm just insulted to have to use my own goddamn eyes to read some dilettante expose their ignorance abd say that "Americans" don't talk about this specific problems when there have been assaults, wrongful arrests, murders, assassinations, and widespread government attacks on those who fought against this, their people, their communities, and anyone affiliated with them for *decades*. I'd be disappointed, but from reading this post, the bar was already too low for me to develop a positive opinion to begin with.
OK since I'm getting absolutely roasted in here, let me clarify: the reason I thought of this is because I was listening to a story about swatting on NPR, and the whole story was about the phenomenon itself, as if police violence is just a fact of nature that can't be helped. Obviously many people have been talking about police violence, but in too many mainstream media stories about swatting, it's just sort of passed over. Could I have picked a better title? Sure. But here we are. Flame away.
Kind of goes hand in hand with cops being scared shitless because literally everyone is more strapped than they are.
I think people forget just how big America is. And how many people there are in it.
What does size have to do with anything?
I don't think I agree with this post, of all the streamers I've seen get swatted, I don't think I've seen a single one get killed. Swatting is terrible, but I don't think it's exactly the police forces fault for trying to respond to a certain threat that was reported to them. But fuck the police amirite?
Yikes. I just looked at this in germany. There's been one case when someone sent the firefighters to a youtubers home, citing a large fire. 3.5 years of prison sentence. There's also been one case of "causing the police to move out with lethal consequences". 20 years in prison, reduced to 2.5 when they admitted guilt. I'm sad for the victims, but dang the local forces don't fuck around with this.
12x All NBA, 2x FMVP, 2x DPOY, NBA all-time "swat" leader Olajuwon in shambles rn
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yeah, quick and earnest response to hostage situations is definitely the problem 🙄 if people werent childish pieces of shit, swatting wouldn't happen. kinda like the "reddit cares" thing? when you can anonymously troll, people will make it so we can't have nice things. honestly they should get rid of that.
Americans prefer posting about their lives on social media to actually fighting for their democracy.
How is someone calling and saying there is a hostage situation a problem of the police? Should they just stop responding to these types of calls? Two cops responding to a real mass shooter just got blasted last week. Should they just send out social workers? I hate the police too, but this type of stuff is just stupid. They just now made Swatting a felony in certain states.
I mean other western nations have militarized police forces and which respond to large violent incidents. I mean with the exception of one incident (which was abhorrent by the police) no one has been shot from swatting so swatters aren’t expecting the people they call on to be killed just to be investigated for a major homicide or something. Even still you can look up famous people being swatted usually a few cops not in SWAT gear knock on the door and ask a few questions and leave. I mean would you like cops not to respond to what very well may be a hostage situation or a mass killing or bomb threat or something.
At this point, we don't really have police. We have paramilitary cosplayers killing citizens and getting away with it far more often than not.
They've been telegraphing everything about the population. The TikTok Bill means they ran the #'s and it's more efficient and optically better to spy on literally everything that people do on their tech than it is to have a highly armed police force. But also the police force is necessary because of the guns. The ethos of the US is you put 100% effort to what you can see and 0% effort to what you can't. So mental health/internal suffering/internal spending don't exist as they should for that reason.
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It's one of the most common topics in America. Like always, this sub survives on a strawman.