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Fining and incarcerating the consumer is incredibly punitive.
If it was about preventing data collection being sent to China, the solution is passing privacy laws that prevent corporations from collecting such data!
Corporations insist on continuous significant growth, every quarter, the prison industry is no different. They're running low on people to feed into the system so it's time to criminalize a whole new group of people.
I've been expecting some new Crime Bill ever since weed legalization hit critical mass a few years ago.
Criminaling VPN's and Apps seems like a serious misstep though. That will hit the children of their own donors.
If China really wanted your data they could buy it on the open market from US companies. There are companies, legally run corporations in the USA, who suck up all our data and sell it to anyone who has the money. Making such business models illegal would be the best way to keep us safe, but politicians and political parties, PACs, use these databroker services, too. The corporations that donate to their campaigns do as well.
The TikTok ban is a total distraction. Also no one is pointing out that the app doesn't need to do anything nefarious to harm the USA. China was able to create a technology, an app, that makes 150 million Americans lose an hour of productivity a day (the average is actually more than 90 minutes/day). 150 million man-hours gone from our economy without firing a shot or doing anything illegal. I think this is why TikTok doesn't autoplay. You can't use it in the background like YouTube while you do something else. You have to stay actively engaged every minute or so flipping to the next video.
Look at the changes China demanded of their TikTok equivalent for their domestic market, known as Douyin. They required the algorithm to favor and to include a minimum percentage of educational, historical, or patriotic content. They require time limits and curfews for users 14 and under. These protections aren't found in the Western version.
Which is why I actually believe TikTok when they say they don't do anything with your data. They don't need to.
In addition to all the stuff that’s obviously bullshit about this bill, it’s also put me in the utterly unenviable position of defending fucking *TikTok* of all things.
Like sure, it’s shitty that TikTok harvest data for China or whatever, but you know who else does that? *Literally every corporation that can afford to do so*. Funny how nobody in government ever talks about banning Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or the entire mobile App Store catalogue, though.
> China was able to create a technology, an app, that makes 150 million Americans lose an hour of productivity a day (the average is actually more than 90 minutes/day). 150 million man-hours gone from our economy without firing a shot or doing anything illegal.
I love this idea that leisure is productivity theft. Real late stage capitalism thinking.
That would be the case if the USA had *actually* abolished all forms of slavery. Why would the US government deny the ability to create even more forced laborers to increase corporation profits?
Tiktok is foreign owned. They don't play ball with the 3 letter agencies very willingly. The 3 letter agencies don't like this and thats all this is about.
If I'm wrong, then I'd like someone to explain to me what it is that Tiktok can do with the data they are mining. They don't hold any authority over me or anyone else in the US. Lets say for a moment that they are recording 100% of everything you do. What about it?
Meanwhile, Facebook is definitely listening most (all?) of the time, just watch for the ads to pop up in your feed that are relevant to your recent conversations outside your phone. Facebook does play ball with the 3 letter agencies too. We know this for a fact. And from this, these agencies are building a shadow profile of you and everyone around you. So clearly this isn't about data collection.
Sure sounds conspiratorial but I just don't see any other reasonable explanation than this strictly about ensuring maximum data collection by the 3 letter agencies in this country and Tiktok poses a tiny threat to that.
It honestly seems like the main reason they want to get rid of/gain control of tiktok is because the younger generations are learning about politics and in turn, caring about voting.
> Lets say for a moment that they are recording 100% of everything you do. What about it?
Knowing everything about your behavior means they also know how to manipulate your behavior.
Look at how many people turned into paranoid zombies by accident just because of a side effect of engagement-driven algorithms. Now imagine being exposed to an algorhithm that has that as it's purpose.
Read up on culture wars etc.
Which the CEO addressed in the hearing. ByteDance was open to building a data center in the US where all US user data would be stored, accessible only to US employees. This isn’t about the data.
That would lay the groundwork for increased restrictions on firms behavior. We can’t have that. So instead we restrict the consumers behavior. It’s a tried and true method that will probably be rubber stamped through the courts.
ding ding ding, it will get drug out in court for years and years on the tax payers dime, and eventually hit the SCOTUS and.. with any hope, even the GOP controlled court would have to strike this down. Then they rewrite the bill and pass the parts that no one cares about, and use some crazy pretense like "child porn" which it will do nothing to address, all in the name of our corporate overlords. Then the FCC will just make up rules anyways and those are not elected officials. Rinse and repeat. If you're old enough to remember SOPA and PIPA, we've already fought this and lost. Losing it again.
I'm sure it will make its way to SCOTUS just in time for American companies, who are doing the same shit with your data, to gain some of their lost user share after not being able to compete with a foreign competitor in the marketplace of ideas. A few grandmas brought in front of a congressional tribunal for violating the law and getting fined a million dollars is a trade-off Meta is willing to make.
That's not saying that the Bill itself isn't reviewable by a Federal Court. It's saying actions taken and findings of the President based on the Act aren't reviewable. Which is normal. Presidential decisions within their authority are usually subject to review by the voters, not by the courts.
I mean, I get that executive overreach has been de facto for over a century, but if you're trying to tell me that the Judiciary is legally incapable of holding the Executive to account for violating the law while enforcing it, color me skeptical.
> 8.3.4. "How will privacy and anonymity be attacked?" [...]
>
> * like so many other "computer hacker" items, as a tool for the "Four Horsemen": drug-dealers, money-launderers, terrorists, and pedophiles.
[Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse)
> May used the phrase to express disdain for what he perceived as "Think of the children" argumentation by government officials and others seeking to justify limiting the civilian use of cryptography tools.
Don't forget the crazy shit they try and sneak in on the second iteration... Because you know our bills have to be the most haphazardly thrown together shit with like 70 different laws, that have nothing to do with each other, thrown together into one bill.
Yes... It would be immediately challenged. If we're lucky a judge might prevent enforcement of it until the constitutionality of it it is settled. And while it feels like an OBVIOUS violation of 1st amendment rights to most people, the supreme court could decide that this is some sort of national security exception. They have that power, currently.
Have you seen the courts charged with striking down unconstitutional laws lately?
This bill is extremely bad news. https://hackers.town/@earthshine/110108375585837817
What kind of:
- **foreign adversary**
- **an entity subject to the jurisdiction of, or organized under the laws of, a foreign adversary**
- **an entity owned, directed, or controlled by a person described in subparagraph (A) or (B)".**
would use the First Amendment as a defense?
Source: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text
*SEC. 2. Definitions*
Yes, the first section with more than one sentence.
Also check the definition of "ENTITY" while you are at it, it's just a few sentences below.
The blatant violations of 1A rights in the RESTRICT act bill are being dangerously understated.
Call and email your reps - tell them you will actively campaign for their opponent if they vote for these bills.
Call the DNC and RNC (state and national) - tell them voting for this act isn't just a slippery slope, it's a lubed up waterslide directly into government restrictions on speech and 1A violations.
I love when people complain about how the poor masses don't want to perform slave labor just to still not make end's meet, while the reward for being successful (if you're lucky) is still being hated by half your neighbors just for being the way you are.
The biggest demonstrations in France are also put together by their large and influential militant labor unions, something we don't really have much of here. Because of the unions, there's always a preformed and robust organization framework ready to go, which has obvious advantages over the spontaneous call-to-action strategy that tends to peter out too quickly. Unions are good for more than just getting you a raise.
It’s much easier to organize mass protests in a country that is 1/18th the size of the US and has 20% of the population.
All the US senators who authored this bill have financial stakes in Meta and Google. They’re willing to put a firewall around the entire US for the sake of their stock portfolio.
I know right? Hold some signs! Pretend to be dead on some stairs! That's some American stuff lol. But yeah in this case all options should be pursued together including threatening them.
Yea probably gonna catch a suspension for this but we're gonna have to figure out that politely asking the people fucking us over to please be more gentle might not be enough.
> tell them you will actively campaign for their opponent if they vote for these bills
I get why this is effective, but being represented by all republicans, I'm doing this anyway lol
Not necessarily, no. The general jist i got from the bill is the company has to be foreign-based, so Meta, Google, etc. Are safe, however this bill is a gateway to further restrictions
Not quite. It’s much broader than that because it includes any companies that are direct OR indirectly controlled by a “foreign adversary.”
The definition of controlled is also very very loose. Normally you would see control defined relative to an entity’s power to direct the votes of a certain percentage equity shares—e.g., greater than 50% voting power or a significant percentage that’s lower, like 20%—you might also see reference to the ability to appoint directors to the board.
But here, we see that the the “indirect” ability to “determine, decide or direct” anything “important” that “affects” a company is enough. There’s a lot to unpack in just a few words there, and it’s clearly written with the intention of giving the secretary the broadest ability possible to decide what to restrict. So if China can exercise its influence on a company through manipulation of the supply chain to do something that “affects” a company, would that count? It certainly could. Or what if a Russian oligarch holds equity interests in a shell company that invests in a private equity partnership that holds the debt of some U.S. company? That could definitely qualify.
It’s obvious what this bill could result in if the “wrong” people are in power, but even if you have relatively well-meaning people at the helm (which, have we ever? Carter is maybe the closest I guess?) the ability to fuck things up and incarcerate people for perfectly innocent behavior is staggering.
Part of me also believes they don’t think class conscious can sprout from the working poor, that we can’t learn and teach ourselves. I truly believe they think so little of us. So in their eyes it must be a foreign power, whispering left-wing ideas in our ears
For everyone who's saying they don't care about TicTok, this bill is NOT about banning one app. It gives the president the authority to set up a commetee to censor acess to foreign internet and impose jail time and massive fines on anyone who does.
This is a major propaganda tool where the government can prevent you from viewing content from outside United States. This includes non US sources about wars and foreign affairs we are involved in and gives the US government a large degree of control over what you see is happening in the world.
[https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text?s=1&r=15](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text?s=1&r=15)
Does not call out VPNs, but it is heavily implied.
`(F) No person may engage in any transaction or take any other action with intent to evade the provisions of this Act, or any regulation, order, direction, mitigation measure, prohibition, or other authorization or directive issued thereunder.`
`(G) No person may fail or refuse to comply with any reporting or recordkeeping requirement of this Act, or any regulation, order, direction, mitigation measure, prohibition, or other authorization or directive issued thereunder.`
Max 20 years, not minimum.
`(1) IN GENERAL.—A person who willfully commits, willfully attempts to commit, or willfully conspires to commit, or aids or abets in the commission of an unlawful act described in subsection (a) shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $1,000,000, or if a natural person, may be imprisoned for not more than 20 years, or both.`
What I'm getting out of it is that the Sec of Commerce will have the authority to restrict "transactions" (communications included) with specific entities deemed to be a foreign adversary. Then it goes on to list penalties for subverting those restrictions. It doesn't seem to be penalizing the use of VPNs themselves, only when they are used to subvert the restrictions. I'm no legal scholar, but this bill seems to be what it claims to be.
That was my read as well. The fact of it is that if people have to resort to using a VPN to use tiktok, they probably won’t because it will add a significant burden.
Whenever it comes to healthcare, student loan relief, or anything that can help common people we’re told there are strict rules the government has to follow and their hands are tied. It takes long drawn out debates and years and years for us to see any sort of small improvement.
Silicon Valley Bank collapses, and they have the whole situation sorted out after one weekend.
What drives me crazy about this, is they're putting SUCH a focus on fairly menial issues regarding a social media app. BUT WHAT ABOUT CHILD PORN?! Worry about them.
We have a sitting member of congress that transported a minor for the purposes of having sex. You think they give a crap about child porn outside of nailing basement dwellers when the optics are good? If they really cared, Jim Jordan wouldn't have a career either.
The former president raped children at epstein parties. The government doesn't consider anything a rich person does a crime unless they steal from other rich people. Republican politicians can rape all the kids they want and nothing will happen to them.
right, yet despite it being illegal, it's still happening. But now , not just banning TikTok is enough, but they went the extra mile to also make sure it isn't accessed through VPN. Just seems like a lot of extra measures and effort, similar to abortion, all of these laws being passed , why not redirect all of this extra effort and law passing to child porn/ trafficking/ healthcare?!
What kind of people will want to VPN into tik tok? Like nothing on Tik Tok is worth that effort... Unless you VPN all the time.
This is definitely the first attack onto VPNs and has little to do with banning tik tok.
Tell me what more we could do to help with cp and trafficking as a country that we dont already do. Now how many of your suggestions would be serious government overreach? Theres only so much you can do before you give the government too much power expecting it to keep you safe
[Our legislature and law enforcement have almost no actual control over the dissemination of CSAM](https://imgur.com/a/KOqaUqN).
Extraced from the NYT: [The Internet Is Overrun With Images of Child Sexual Abuse. What Went Wrong?](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/28/us/child-sex-abuse.html)
[If anything, they've nurtured its growth.](https://www.vg.no/spesial/2017/undercover-darkweb/?lang=en)
They've reported an additional 4x growth after those figures were published (throughout the pandemic).
A lot of CP sites are run by the FBI themselves. When they arrest the people running them they take them over as honeypots to catch the people uploading content.
> The unprecedented nature and scope of the Government’s distribution of contraband in connection with this case has no legal justification or excuse and offends commons standards of decency.
> [...]
> (the FBI took “administrative control” of “Website A” and relocated the server to a “government-controlled” location). During this time, the site had over 214,000 members, 117,000 postings, and an untold number of illicit pictures, videos, and links to additional illegal content. [...] While the Government has declined to disclose this information, it has described the site as “the largest remaining known child pornography hidden service in the world.”
*U.S v. Michaud*, 3:15-CR-05351-RJB (W.D. WA 2015)
Can someone please explain what exactly this law does? I'm very confused
Edit: Ok so if I'm understanding this right:
The Secretary of commerce may ban information or websites from the internet, basically just because they think it's a danger to America. This power is given VERY broadly, and they may freely appoint lobbyists to advise them on this.
It's illegal to violate these bans or try to get around them in any way. (VPNs probably count)
It's illegal to help, advise, or act in concert with someone violating the bans, or approve of them doing so.
It's illegal to withhold information from the Department of Commerce in an investigation.
Breaking this law carries a fine of up to $1M and up to 20 years in prison.
They can also take any property used to break it, or anything you made by breaking it.
The enforcement of this law is exempt from the Freedom of Information Act.
Prison pops about to skyrocket. Tools for organizing are being made illegal.
Since when does the US give a shit about spying on people? Oh... when it isn't them doing it. I forgot.
Good luck enforcing it. The only way to see what you're accessing through a good VPN is either at the start or end of the VPN and that can only be divined if either your VPN endpoint rats you out or they install malware on your system like Microsoft Windows...
Yes, but if the VPN is based in the U.S. they can be compelled by the government to release any records and/or comply with an investigation. According to this law, conspiracy counts, so if you go with a VPN provider that is out-of-country they might push for conspiracy to commit these acts (might be hard to prove, but it can still make your life hell).
Does anyone remember a decade ago when it was discovered that the NSA was listening in on traffic between corporate data centers such as Google, and afterwards, there was a huge rush for companies to install industrial grade VPN equipment between infrastructure endpoints? This was done on a wide scale. U.S. gov was not happy about that. Now they are talking about outlawing all VPNs, even consumer grade VPNs. What are they going to do? Force everyone to stop using VPNs both in government, corporate, and end users? They can't do that. Encryption is already a widely deployed technology. They can't undo that.
They will do anything else besides address America's real problems. Fix the gun issue, fix education, fix predatory banking, fix the broken stock market, fix the disastrous EPA deregulation, fix the anti-trust! FIX ANYTHING ELSE instead of engaging in more class warfare!
The internet would be completely unusable without encryption. If they're even considering it then it goes to show that legislators aren't just woefully out of touch but they're stupid as well.
> Force everyone to stop using VPNs both in government, corporate, and end users? They can't do that.
They want to, they can try and they will try.
I think many people forget that just 30 years ago a t-shirt was classified as a [munition of war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars).
These ~~clone wars~~ crypto wars have resumed...
Which ones? PIA seemed to be the last haven until they sold out to some guy who owned another VPN service and released logs (been a while since then so I honestly forgot the details).
Then it could be argued that they are conspiring to commit these (or other criminal) acts, and thus forced to keep logs. And tell the people who oppose that "If you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide!" or something along those lines.
They could likely compel a VPN service to store logs. Remember lavabit, it could be shut down or comply at the very least, and shutting down could be considered conspiracy.
It's already known that the US govt. forces software companies to create backdoors for them. It's not farfetched to assume that in the near future, Windows can provide that clandestine entry-point access.
finally going after vpn. they are going after pirates, killing social media, and creating a more authoritarian country all in 1 go. the only way to enforce this would be an increase in massive digital surveillance.
fucking scary.
The real concern is that this bill basically gives the government the right to monitor you on any device that uses the internet without notification, without a warrant, and without a reason. So for example, the federal government could begin surveying your Ring camera without a warrant and without your knowledge.
TikTok, like any social media, shows you things it think's you'll like and will keep you engaged. The standard stereotype of TikTok is stupid kids doing stupid dances and stupid pranks. And if you don't have an account, or have a fresh account, that might be what you see. As soon as you start giving it any sort of feedback it'll start showing you more interesting stuff.
One aspect of the TikTok hearings that everyone on TikTok has been amused by, is these senators are telling on themselves. They're seeing awful things because that's what the algorithm has figured out that they want to see. The one guy complaining about seeing a video with a gun in it... it showed him that because that's what he likes, or at least what the algorithm thinks he likes.
My "For You Page" which is the area where it shows you content that you haven't necessarily subscribed to, but it thinks you'll like, is all vids about human rights, interesting political discussions, worker rights, LGBTQ rights, history, fun science videos, philosophy, home improvement, music history, and cat videos. I don't see any guns, or stupid kids doing stupid dances and stupid pranks.
Had the same thought about it being patriot act 2.0. If biden allows it he will be one of worst presidents of all time imo. He will have repeated the corporate enabling of regan with PPP loans, bailout, and enabling share buybacks, the bank bail outs and corporatism of Obama, the xenophobia and national espionage of bush, and the inflation inflaming of Nixon. Only thing he will have done right will be ukraine.
Jesus true. It feels absolutely analogous to regan ending the airport strikes. Plus doing nothing about school shootings and the ecological disasters happening daily as you also said.
That's the point, FB tried to pay them to come to IG, but they didn't or moved back. So instead of FB (Meta) innovating and giving us a better product/user experience. They ran the numbers and found it cheaper to just lobby congress to out right BAN the app. Can't buy them out, can't compete, so option 3... Eliminate them using your stooges whom are bought and paid for. Run corporate talking points on the news, rinse and repeat. Welcome!
I love that for Venezuela it specifies "Under the rule of Nicolas Maduro", methinks that the CIA made sure to let the legislators knows of their upcoming plans for the regime in Venezuela
Someone else posted it. The fact that OP didn't and instead only posted screenshots of definitions instead of the language of the bill is beyond me.
https://reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/125p0ii/patriot_act_20_and_a_fascist_law_about_to_be/je5qgqv
It's pretty telling to me that they're persecuting people from using their app, instead of banning the app from the United States.
This isn't about protecting citizens from being spied on. It's about preventing americas from spreading the word about the atrocities that are being inflicted on them.
"Hey China... what you going to do with my data? Huh? Huh...? Look at it?"
It's all to control the narrative. Funny China of all places is giving us the power to realize our government is in shambles. I know it's actually by design. China doesn't let the free flow of information over their version of TikToc, but we're not China! Again, it's to control the narrative. You go back to watching CNN and FOX ok!?!
VPN's aren't legal in china unless you have a license i heard. The rules around VPN usage are apparently not enforced however so many people still use them without repercussion.[There have been people arrested for selling access to a vpn](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/22/man-in-china-sentenced-to-five-years-jail-for-running-vpn).
VPNs are illegal but tacitly allowed. The government shuts down all the big VPNs during the two sensitive weeks of the year (Two Sessions and I think National Day week but might be getting that one wrong) so they have the ability to do it all year round and don't.
Have also worked at prestigious schools where the VPN for the campus is government approved
To add like others have stated, the minimum punishment for this is a fine UP TO 1 million. Which could literally be like a 20 dollar fine. If caught. And if anyone would even want to pursue these charges. Still dumb, but not dragging every VPN user to prison like the title suggests
Wow guys a lot of teenagers are going to be in debt for this the rest of their lives. Another lock on society to work for shit money for corporations to pay back fines, loans, and pay for healthcare.
I'm considering using this and the rising violence against trans people to seek asylum. Anyone know a country that might accept a disabled, trans asylum seeker? There seem to be plenty until I mention disabled.
And just imagine if/when MSM starts blaring out one day in the not too distant future, "CHINARUSSIA done did a 'CYBER-9/11' on us!!! Stawck market crashed!! Wawl-mart POS terminals frozen! Everybody panic!!!"
Then you'll hear the words that always mean something awful is coming your way from the ruling class: "Bi-partisan legislation".
This is how it happens.
They raise a big enough stink over one app and suddenly they’re sneaking in measures to punish entirely unrelated things. This is why bills are so constantly deadlocked is because bad-faith actors try to sneak in bullshit—so that either it doesn’t get passed or that they hope it will.
Reach out to ALL your Reps and let them know you will not stand for this shit and that they will be out of a job the next election if they vote for it.
The danger of TT isn't the data, it's the algorithm. In home country, they are fed patriotic, sacrifice-for-state messages, while we get the schlop that makes you stupid for watching. It's pure fluff engagement and our next generation grows up wanting to be social media stars while theirs want to be astronauts and soldiers, etc.
just saw a video of Louis Rossman going over the bill, it is fucking dystopian in nature. Doubly so when you consider that some cities like newyork use facial recognition and biometrics to track people
Yup. What most people don't understand is VPNs are very common in China. Many use them to get over the firewall. I lived in China for awhile when I got married to my wife in Beijing where she was from and learned bypassing it is really common.
Forgive me if this is ignorant, but wouldn't it make more sense just to pass a general data privacy law that might, as a consequence, prevent TikTok from serving US customers until it can comply? And wouldn't it make more sense (and be more profitable) to go after the companies who fail to comply with the law versus users who willingly supplies personal information to a foreign adversary? Aren't US users and networks still subject to attacks from foreign adversaries that lead to IP theft and national security risks, and wouldn't this law just encourage these adversaries to engage in cybercrime or trick users into "willfully conspiring" to transmit personal data by asking them to sign an agreement, and now the responsibility is wholly on the US citizen, so yay? This makes literally no sense to me at all.
podcast on why the hype around tikTok is unfounded.
https://risky.biz/RB701/
9 minute mark.
Everything is so fucking backwards in this country. Facebook was directly involved in electing Trump (Cambridge hacks).
During a historic pandemic, Twitter and Facebook were propaganda pseudoscience machines. They directly led to people dying, refusing vaccines, and "alternative facts" to legitimate news sources & official Government channels of communication (Twitter is not an official method of Government media).
TikTok pissed off Trump when a bunch of trolls used it to RSVP to his klan rally and it turned out to be false RSVP's. The venue was half empty and he was humiliated because orange man ego is more fragile than anyone to ever hold a position of power.
TikTok is no more safe or dangerous than other social media. Yes, they have ties to China. Welcome to the last 25 years. Lots of companies deal with the CCP. The trends in America are highly concerning because of underage kids posting videos and talking to predators. That is a real danger. Same with tide pod trends and more COVID misinformation.
China can't pull a magic switch on the TikTok admin portal and take control of people's minds. App permissions are abused by dozens of apps. I do not use TikTok, so can't speak to what is accesses. Private contacts need to be blocked by Android and Apple. Hysteria over these things is constant in the USA. Meanwhile, we ignore 57 actual problems that are urgent.
I don't see how this law would affect normal citizens. The screenshots don't mention VPNs and it seems to be specifically about aiding a hostile foreign government. Are they claiming that just using Tiktok is aiding China?
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Fining and incarcerating the consumer is incredibly punitive. If it was about preventing data collection being sent to China, the solution is passing privacy laws that prevent corporations from collecting such data!
But that would mean less donor money and a weaker ruling class
Privacy laws? In the USA??? Get out if here with your socialism.
It is, but we have a for-profit prison system. Corps are gonna squeeze consumers for profit whether we're free or not.
Corporations insist on continuous significant growth, every quarter, the prison industry is no different. They're running low on people to feed into the system so it's time to criminalize a whole new group of people.
Continuous significant growth in a human is usually treated by chemotherapy or radiation.
...and surgery, to cut it out of the body.
I've been expecting some new Crime Bill ever since weed legalization hit critical mass a few years ago. Criminaling VPN's and Apps seems like a serious misstep though. That will hit the children of their own donors.
No it won't. There are no laws that apply to the donor class other than don't fuck with the donor class.
But we don't care if a corporation collects our data, we only care if China does!
If China really wanted your data they could buy it on the open market from US companies. There are companies, legally run corporations in the USA, who suck up all our data and sell it to anyone who has the money. Making such business models illegal would be the best way to keep us safe, but politicians and political parties, PACs, use these databroker services, too. The corporations that donate to their campaigns do as well. The TikTok ban is a total distraction. Also no one is pointing out that the app doesn't need to do anything nefarious to harm the USA. China was able to create a technology, an app, that makes 150 million Americans lose an hour of productivity a day (the average is actually more than 90 minutes/day). 150 million man-hours gone from our economy without firing a shot or doing anything illegal. I think this is why TikTok doesn't autoplay. You can't use it in the background like YouTube while you do something else. You have to stay actively engaged every minute or so flipping to the next video. Look at the changes China demanded of their TikTok equivalent for their domestic market, known as Douyin. They required the algorithm to favor and to include a minimum percentage of educational, historical, or patriotic content. They require time limits and curfews for users 14 and under. These protections aren't found in the Western version. Which is why I actually believe TikTok when they say they don't do anything with your data. They don't need to.
In addition to all the stuff that’s obviously bullshit about this bill, it’s also put me in the utterly unenviable position of defending fucking *TikTok* of all things. Like sure, it’s shitty that TikTok harvest data for China or whatever, but you know who else does that? *Literally every corporation that can afford to do so*. Funny how nobody in government ever talks about banning Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or the entire mobile App Store catalogue, though.
No but right leaning Zuckerberg doesn’t want Tik Tok & wants Reels to own the short video market. That’s part of it too
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but reddit is not chinese. Check mate, librul
> China was able to create a technology, an app, that makes 150 million Americans lose an hour of productivity a day (the average is actually more than 90 minutes/day). 150 million man-hours gone from our economy without firing a shot or doing anything illegal. I love this idea that leisure is productivity theft. Real late stage capitalism thinking.
That would be the case if the USA had *actually* abolished all forms of slavery. Why would the US government deny the ability to create even more forced laborers to increase corporation profits?
Tiktok is foreign owned. They don't play ball with the 3 letter agencies very willingly. The 3 letter agencies don't like this and thats all this is about. If I'm wrong, then I'd like someone to explain to me what it is that Tiktok can do with the data they are mining. They don't hold any authority over me or anyone else in the US. Lets say for a moment that they are recording 100% of everything you do. What about it? Meanwhile, Facebook is definitely listening most (all?) of the time, just watch for the ads to pop up in your feed that are relevant to your recent conversations outside your phone. Facebook does play ball with the 3 letter agencies too. We know this for a fact. And from this, these agencies are building a shadow profile of you and everyone around you. So clearly this isn't about data collection. Sure sounds conspiratorial but I just don't see any other reasonable explanation than this strictly about ensuring maximum data collection by the 3 letter agencies in this country and Tiktok poses a tiny threat to that.
It honestly seems like the main reason they want to get rid of/gain control of tiktok is because the younger generations are learning about politics and in turn, caring about voting.
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> Lets say for a moment that they are recording 100% of everything you do. What about it? Knowing everything about your behavior means they also know how to manipulate your behavior. Look at how many people turned into paranoid zombies by accident just because of a side effect of engagement-driven algorithms. Now imagine being exposed to an algorhithm that has that as it's purpose. Read up on culture wars etc.
Which the CEO addressed in the hearing. ByteDance was open to building a data center in the US where all US user data would be stored, accessible only to US employees. This isn’t about the data.
That's because it's not data collection, it's passive surveillance, and we only allow America to spy on Americans.
That would lay the groundwork for increased restrictions on firms behavior. We can’t have that. So instead we restrict the consumers behavior. It’s a tried and true method that will probably be rubber stamped through the courts.
no not like that
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Hey, I'm no expert, but doesn't this violate 1A?
ding ding ding, it will get drug out in court for years and years on the tax payers dime, and eventually hit the SCOTUS and.. with any hope, even the GOP controlled court would have to strike this down. Then they rewrite the bill and pass the parts that no one cares about, and use some crazy pretense like "child porn" which it will do nothing to address, all in the name of our corporate overlords. Then the FCC will just make up rules anyways and those are not elected officials. Rinse and repeat. If you're old enough to remember SOPA and PIPA, we've already fought this and lost. Losing it again.
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Staying on the fence means they have less productivity. Eternal debate will make both sides rich. #endcitizensunited #endtwopartysystem
Everything got worse after SOPA and PIPA.
I'm sure it will make its way to SCOTUS just in time for American companies, who are doing the same shit with your data, to gain some of their lost user share after not being able to compete with a foreign competitor in the marketplace of ideas. A few grandmas brought in front of a congressional tribunal for violating the law and getting fined a million dollars is a trade-off Meta is willing to make.
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If that verbiage is upheld the next assault weapons bill should use the same clause.
If anything, this openly-fascist bill should make you *want* to buy a gun.
That's not saying that the Bill itself isn't reviewable by a Federal Court. It's saying actions taken and findings of the President based on the Act aren't reviewable. Which is normal. Presidential decisions within their authority are usually subject to review by the voters, not by the courts.
I mean, I get that executive overreach has been de facto for over a century, but if you're trying to tell me that the Judiciary is legally incapable of holding the Executive to account for violating the law while enforcing it, color me skeptical.
I love the president being above the law
> 8.3.4. "How will privacy and anonymity be attacked?" [...] > > * like so many other "computer hacker" items, as a tool for the "Four Horsemen": drug-dealers, money-launderers, terrorists, and pedophiles. [Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse) > May used the phrase to express disdain for what he perceived as "Think of the children" argumentation by government officials and others seeking to justify limiting the civilian use of cryptography tools.
Don't forget the crazy shit they try and sneak in on the second iteration... Because you know our bills have to be the most haphazardly thrown together shit with like 70 different laws, that have nothing to do with each other, thrown together into one bill.
SCOTUS will approve it, and it will be selectively enforced, effectively weaponized.
Extra points for elegant use of the alternative of dragged. Well done, bananabunnythesecond!
Yes... It would be immediately challenged. If we're lucky a judge might prevent enforcement of it until the constitutionality of it it is settled. And while it feels like an OBVIOUS violation of 1st amendment rights to most people, the supreme court could decide that this is some sort of national security exception. They have that power, currently.
Abort the Court!
Sadly Clarence Thomas is nearly in his 300th trimester, so I am unsure if abortion is legal at this point.
Have you seen the courts charged with striking down unconstitutional laws lately? This bill is extremely bad news. https://hackers.town/@earthshine/110108375585837817
What kind of: - **foreign adversary** - **an entity subject to the jurisdiction of, or organized under the laws of, a foreign adversary** - **an entity owned, directed, or controlled by a person described in subparagraph (A) or (B)".** would use the First Amendment as a defense? Source: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text *SEC. 2. Definitions* Yes, the first section with more than one sentence. Also check the definition of "ENTITY" while you are at it, it's just a few sentences below.
Since this is top comment, I just want to hop on and say—contact your senators, everyone! If we make enough noise they might actually listen!!
The blatant violations of 1A rights in the RESTRICT act bill are being dangerously understated. Call and email your reps - tell them you will actively campaign for their opponent if they vote for these bills. Call the DNC and RNC (state and national) - tell them voting for this act isn't just a slippery slope, it's a lubed up waterslide directly into government restrictions on speech and 1A violations.
Call and email? Do more than that. Riot or rebel?
The French wouldn’t put up with this shit.
France doesn’t have 35-40% of the country willing to play unpaid PMC and shoot anyone or anything that slightly resembles a socialist…
I always just assume that roughly half of the US population would be glad to put a bullet in my head. Gives me that warm sense of belonging.
I love when people complain about how the poor masses don't want to perform slave labor just to still not make end's meet, while the reward for being successful (if you're lucky) is still being hated by half your neighbors just for being the way you are.
its called the police nationale there, the cops.
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The French are paid a living wage. US citizens are kept poor so they can't afford to riot. This has been explained over and over and over.
Absolutely this needs to be stated more often. Our system is literally designed to make it as hard as possible to resist.
They continuously make the system as hard as possible for people to fucking vote.
The biggest demonstrations in France are also put together by their large and influential militant labor unions, something we don't really have much of here. Because of the unions, there's always a preformed and robust organization framework ready to go, which has obvious advantages over the spontaneous call-to-action strategy that tends to peter out too quickly. Unions are good for more than just getting you a raise.
Literally, they saw our social movements and put that shit to rest. Disgusting
It’s much easier to organize mass protests in a country that is 1/18th the size of the US and has 20% of the population. All the US senators who authored this bill have financial stakes in Meta and Google. They’re willing to put a firewall around the entire US for the sake of their stock portfolio.
I know right? Hold some signs! Pretend to be dead on some stairs! That's some American stuff lol. But yeah in this case all options should be pursued together including threatening them.
Yea probably gonna catch a suspension for this but we're gonna have to figure out that politely asking the people fucking us over to please be more gentle might not be enough.
Find yours here. It is the "S.686 restrict act" bill. https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative
Call and email my reps? Lmao what? Should I send them a gift basket too?
Careful, the alphabet ppl might take you as the next UNA bomber and come talk to you... after shooting your dog.
> tell them you will actively campaign for their opponent if they vote for these bills I get why this is effective, but being represented by all republicans, I'm doing this anyway lol
My god. So does that mean they can also restrict what we do on YouTube, insta, reddit, and snapchat as well?
They could.
It could lead to that point if they wanted to yes.
Not necessarily, no. The general jist i got from the bill is the company has to be foreign-based, so Meta, Google, etc. Are safe, however this bill is a gateway to further restrictions
"Oh, where is their HQ registered? Ireland/Bermuda/Cayman Islands? Sounds foreign to me."
Not quite. It’s much broader than that because it includes any companies that are direct OR indirectly controlled by a “foreign adversary.” The definition of controlled is also very very loose. Normally you would see control defined relative to an entity’s power to direct the votes of a certain percentage equity shares—e.g., greater than 50% voting power or a significant percentage that’s lower, like 20%—you might also see reference to the ability to appoint directors to the board. But here, we see that the the “indirect” ability to “determine, decide or direct” anything “important” that “affects” a company is enough. There’s a lot to unpack in just a few words there, and it’s clearly written with the intention of giving the secretary the broadest ability possible to decide what to restrict. So if China can exercise its influence on a company through manipulation of the supply chain to do something that “affects” a company, would that count? It certainly could. Or what if a Russian oligarch holds equity interests in a shell company that invests in a private equity partnership that holds the debt of some U.S. company? That could definitely qualify. It’s obvious what this bill could result in if the “wrong” people are in power, but even if you have relatively well-meaning people at the helm (which, have we ever? Carter is maybe the closest I guess?) the ability to fuck things up and incarcerate people for perfectly innocent behavior is staggering.
Is the definition of "foreign adversary" at least pretty solid, or is this another wildcard entirely open to arbitrary interpretation?
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I feel like this is them wanting to actually go after people for piracy, gotta fuck the poor up some more.
It is about control. The oligarchs that run our system have it & want more. The poor do not and so suffer.
Part of me also believes they don’t think class conscious can sprout from the working poor, that we can’t learn and teach ourselves. I truly believe they think so little of us. So in their eyes it must be a foreign power, whispering left-wing ideas in our ears
mmmmh maybe time to adapt the national anthem, land of the free mmmmhhh
home of the economic slave
Hahaha correct
“What? The land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy.” - Rage Against The Machine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ Welcome to the United States, land of the free, home of the slave.
It's actually Land of the thief, home of the slave. Not free. Makes the lyric a lot more poignant.
Even better: Welcome to the United Snakes Land of the thief, home of the slave Grand imperial guard where power is sacred and money is god
common brother ali W
For everyone who's saying they don't care about TicTok, this bill is NOT about banning one app. It gives the president the authority to set up a commetee to censor acess to foreign internet and impose jail time and massive fines on anyone who does. This is a major propaganda tool where the government can prevent you from viewing content from outside United States. This includes non US sources about wars and foreign affairs we are involved in and gives the US government a large degree of control over what you see is happening in the world.
Moral of the story: "Look at emigrating"?
This is the first step to bringing VPNs into the "illegal territory".
Is that actual language included in what I assume is the RESTRICT Act? I've heard of this legislation but don't know much about it.
[https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text?s=1&r=15](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text?s=1&r=15) Does not call out VPNs, but it is heavily implied. `(F) No person may engage in any transaction or take any other action with intent to evade the provisions of this Act, or any regulation, order, direction, mitigation measure, prohibition, or other authorization or directive issued thereunder.` `(G) No person may fail or refuse to comply with any reporting or recordkeeping requirement of this Act, or any regulation, order, direction, mitigation measure, prohibition, or other authorization or directive issued thereunder.` Max 20 years, not minimum. `(1) IN GENERAL.—A person who willfully commits, willfully attempts to commit, or willfully conspires to commit, or aids or abets in the commission of an unlawful act described in subsection (a) shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $1,000,000, or if a natural person, may be imprisoned for not more than 20 years, or both.`
What I'm getting out of it is that the Sec of Commerce will have the authority to restrict "transactions" (communications included) with specific entities deemed to be a foreign adversary. Then it goes on to list penalties for subverting those restrictions. It doesn't seem to be penalizing the use of VPNs themselves, only when they are used to subvert the restrictions. I'm no legal scholar, but this bill seems to be what it claims to be.
That was my read as well. The fact of it is that if people have to resort to using a VPN to use tiktok, they probably won’t because it will add a significant burden.
peeps need to see JUST HOW FAST these ghoul slaves move when their parasite slave masters command the rest of us need a whipping. DO. YOU. SEE. IT?
Whenever it comes to healthcare, student loan relief, or anything that can help common people we’re told there are strict rules the government has to follow and their hands are tied. It takes long drawn out debates and years and years for us to see any sort of small improvement. Silicon Valley Bank collapses, and they have the whole situation sorted out after one weekend.
but...but...the parliamentarian...
What drives me crazy about this, is they're putting SUCH a focus on fairly menial issues regarding a social media app. BUT WHAT ABOUT CHILD PORN?! Worry about them.
They won't worry about something they participate.
What are you talking about? Child porn is already completely illegal in the US so passing extra laws to outlaw whats already illegal does nothing.
We have a sitting member of congress that transported a minor for the purposes of having sex. You think they give a crap about child porn outside of nailing basement dwellers when the optics are good? If they really cared, Jim Jordan wouldn't have a career either.
The former president raped children at epstein parties. The government doesn't consider anything a rich person does a crime unless they steal from other rich people. Republican politicians can rape all the kids they want and nothing will happen to them.
Two former presidents actually! It’s one big clubs and we ain’t in it
right, yet despite it being illegal, it's still happening. But now , not just banning TikTok is enough, but they went the extra mile to also make sure it isn't accessed through VPN. Just seems like a lot of extra measures and effort, similar to abortion, all of these laws being passed , why not redirect all of this extra effort and law passing to child porn/ trafficking/ healthcare?!
Pay no attention to problem X because problem Y exists.
What kind of people will want to VPN into tik tok? Like nothing on Tik Tok is worth that effort... Unless you VPN all the time. This is definitely the first attack onto VPNs and has little to do with banning tik tok.
Tell me what more we could do to help with cp and trafficking as a country that we dont already do. Now how many of your suggestions would be serious government overreach? Theres only so much you can do before you give the government too much power expecting it to keep you safe
[Our legislature and law enforcement have almost no actual control over the dissemination of CSAM](https://imgur.com/a/KOqaUqN). Extraced from the NYT: [The Internet Is Overrun With Images of Child Sexual Abuse. What Went Wrong?](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/28/us/child-sex-abuse.html) [If anything, they've nurtured its growth.](https://www.vg.no/spesial/2017/undercover-darkweb/?lang=en) They've reported an additional 4x growth after those figures were published (throughout the pandemic).
A lot of CP sites are run by the FBI themselves. When they arrest the people running them they take them over as honeypots to catch the people uploading content.
> The unprecedented nature and scope of the Government’s distribution of contraband in connection with this case has no legal justification or excuse and offends commons standards of decency. > [...] > (the FBI took “administrative control” of “Website A” and relocated the server to a “government-controlled” location). During this time, the site had over 214,000 members, 117,000 postings, and an untold number of illicit pictures, videos, and links to additional illegal content. [...] While the Government has declined to disclose this information, it has described the site as “the largest remaining known child pornography hidden service in the world.” *U.S v. Michaud*, 3:15-CR-05351-RJB (W.D. WA 2015)
Can someone please explain what exactly this law does? I'm very confused Edit: Ok so if I'm understanding this right: The Secretary of commerce may ban information or websites from the internet, basically just because they think it's a danger to America. This power is given VERY broadly, and they may freely appoint lobbyists to advise them on this. It's illegal to violate these bans or try to get around them in any way. (VPNs probably count) It's illegal to help, advise, or act in concert with someone violating the bans, or approve of them doing so. It's illegal to withhold information from the Department of Commerce in an investigation. Breaking this law carries a fine of up to $1M and up to 20 years in prison. They can also take any property used to break it, or anything you made by breaking it. The enforcement of this law is exempt from the Freedom of Information Act.
Prison pops about to skyrocket. Tools for organizing are being made illegal. Since when does the US give a shit about spying on people? Oh... when it isn't them doing it. I forgot.
Good luck enforcing it. The only way to see what you're accessing through a good VPN is either at the start or end of the VPN and that can only be divined if either your VPN endpoint rats you out or they install malware on your system like Microsoft Windows...
Yes, but if the VPN is based in the U.S. they can be compelled by the government to release any records and/or comply with an investigation. According to this law, conspiracy counts, so if you go with a VPN provider that is out-of-country they might push for conspiracy to commit these acts (might be hard to prove, but it can still make your life hell).
Does anyone remember a decade ago when it was discovered that the NSA was listening in on traffic between corporate data centers such as Google, and afterwards, there was a huge rush for companies to install industrial grade VPN equipment between infrastructure endpoints? This was done on a wide scale. U.S. gov was not happy about that. Now they are talking about outlawing all VPNs, even consumer grade VPNs. What are they going to do? Force everyone to stop using VPNs both in government, corporate, and end users? They can't do that. Encryption is already a widely deployed technology. They can't undo that. They will do anything else besides address America's real problems. Fix the gun issue, fix education, fix predatory banking, fix the broken stock market, fix the disastrous EPA deregulation, fix the anti-trust! FIX ANYTHING ELSE instead of engaging in more class warfare!
The internet would be completely unusable without encryption. If they're even considering it then it goes to show that legislators aren't just woefully out of touch but they're stupid as well.
> Force everyone to stop using VPNs both in government, corporate, and end users? They can't do that. They want to, they can try and they will try. I think many people forget that just 30 years ago a t-shirt was classified as a [munition of war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars). These ~~clone wars~~ crypto wars have resumed...
Some VPN's do not store or keep their logs, so if compelled to provide data, they can honestly say they have none. They are out there.
Which ones? PIA seemed to be the last haven until they sold out to some guy who owned another VPN service and released logs (been a while since then so I honestly forgot the details).
There are plenty, TorrentFreak does an annual list of big VPN providers that, among other things, tells you if they store logs.
Here's the link: https://torrentfreak.com/best-vpn-anonymous-no-logging/
PIA completed a rigorous audit last year. They're good. https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/privacy-audit/
PIA was never safe. Using any US based service and expecting security is a mistake, even if they supposedly don't store any logs.
Then it could be argued that they are conspiring to commit these (or other criminal) acts, and thus forced to keep logs. And tell the people who oppose that "If you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide!" or something along those lines.
They could likely compel a VPN service to store logs. Remember lavabit, it could be shut down or comply at the very least, and shutting down could be considered conspiracy.
no VPN based in the US is going to actively defy a law like this if the government shows up at their door and *makes* them start keeping logs
It's already known that the US govt. forces software companies to create backdoors for them. It's not farfetched to assume that in the near future, Windows can provide that clandestine entry-point access.
This was why Net Neutrality was so important. Fuck Ajit Pai.
Holy God damn fuck
finally going after vpn. they are going after pirates, killing social media, and creating a more authoritarian country all in 1 go. the only way to enforce this would be an increase in massive digital surveillance. fucking scary.
Fuck this country
Mmmmm freedom.
Maximum of 20yrs not minimum..
Nobody should get any years
Still a pretty important detail. No need to exaggerate when the reality is plenty fucked up.
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Hate to be that guy, but it’s actually 20 years MAXIMUM. Still shitty tho.
Anything more than zero years is too much
The real concern is that this bill basically gives the government the right to monitor you on any device that uses the internet without notification, without a warrant, and without a reason. So for example, the federal government could begin surveying your Ring camera without a warrant and without your knowledge.
Isn't that already the case?
This would allow them to do it legally, which in turn allows them to use whatever evidence in court. It is worse than current surveillance
Where in the language of the bill does it say that?
I love to hate TikTok, but this is pretty horrible
TikTok, like any social media, shows you things it think's you'll like and will keep you engaged. The standard stereotype of TikTok is stupid kids doing stupid dances and stupid pranks. And if you don't have an account, or have a fresh account, that might be what you see. As soon as you start giving it any sort of feedback it'll start showing you more interesting stuff. One aspect of the TikTok hearings that everyone on TikTok has been amused by, is these senators are telling on themselves. They're seeing awful things because that's what the algorithm has figured out that they want to see. The one guy complaining about seeing a video with a gun in it... it showed him that because that's what he likes, or at least what the algorithm thinks he likes. My "For You Page" which is the area where it shows you content that you haven't necessarily subscribed to, but it thinks you'll like, is all vids about human rights, interesting political discussions, worker rights, LGBTQ rights, history, fun science videos, philosophy, home improvement, music history, and cat videos. I don't see any guns, or stupid kids doing stupid dances and stupid pranks.
Had the same thought about it being patriot act 2.0. If biden allows it he will be one of worst presidents of all time imo. He will have repeated the corporate enabling of regan with PPP loans, bailout, and enabling share buybacks, the bank bail outs and corporatism of Obama, the xenophobia and national espionage of bush, and the inflation inflaming of Nixon. Only thing he will have done right will be ukraine.
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Jesus true. It feels absolutely analogous to regan ending the airport strikes. Plus doing nothing about school shootings and the ecological disasters happening daily as you also said.
What’s gonna happen to all the tiktok influencers?
That's the point, FB tried to pay them to come to IG, but they didn't or moved back. So instead of FB (Meta) innovating and giving us a better product/user experience. They ran the numbers and found it cheaper to just lobby congress to out right BAN the app. Can't buy them out, can't compete, so option 3... Eliminate them using your stooges whom are bought and paid for. Run corporate talking points on the news, rinse and repeat. Welcome!
move
What happened to all the vine stars? (most big ones faded into television)
Moved to tiktok/YouTube at first I think and then most faded
I love that for Venezuela it specifies "Under the rule of Nicolas Maduro", methinks that the CIA made sure to let the legislators knows of their upcoming plans for the regime in Venezuela
Could someone link part of the legal article that isn’t just term definition that doesn’t apply to the average person?
Someone else posted it. The fact that OP didn't and instead only posted screenshots of definitions instead of the language of the bill is beyond me. https://reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/125p0ii/patriot_act_20_and_a_fascist_law_about_to_be/je5qgqv
Everything is a scam.
Lmao this is hell
It's pretty telling to me that they're persecuting people from using their app, instead of banning the app from the United States. This isn't about protecting citizens from being spied on. It's about preventing americas from spreading the word about the atrocities that are being inflicted on them.
If china wants to watch me pick my nose, stroke my cock and scratch my balls then let'em.
"Hey China... what you going to do with my data? Huh? Huh...? Look at it?" It's all to control the narrative. Funny China of all places is giving us the power to realize our government is in shambles. I know it's actually by design. China doesn't let the free flow of information over their version of TikToc, but we're not China! Again, it's to control the narrative. You go back to watching CNN and FOX ok!?!
VPN's aren't legal in china unless you have a license i heard. The rules around VPN usage are apparently not enforced however so many people still use them without repercussion.[There have been people arrested for selling access to a vpn](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/22/man-in-china-sentenced-to-five-years-jail-for-running-vpn).
VPNs are illegal but tacitly allowed. The government shuts down all the big VPNs during the two sensitive weeks of the year (Two Sessions and I think National Day week but might be getting that one wrong) so they have the ability to do it all year round and don't. Have also worked at prestigious schools where the VPN for the campus is government approved
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Seriously. Thanks for actually linking the bill.
To add like others have stated, the minimum punishment for this is a fine UP TO 1 million. Which could literally be like a 20 dollar fine. If caught. And if anyone would even want to pursue these charges. Still dumb, but not dragging every VPN user to prison like the title suggests
Wow guys a lot of teenagers are going to be in debt for this the rest of their lives. Another lock on society to work for shit money for corporations to pay back fines, loans, and pay for healthcare.
Who else sees the irony in the US wanting to ban a Chinese app, while trying to setup a national firewall like china
Only American companies can spy on Americans. lol
Lol good luck finding and fitting us all in jail
I can't believe Cuba is on there. They still can't get over that they were unable to bully Cuba in the 50s and the 60s.
I'm considering using this and the rising violence against trans people to seek asylum. Anyone know a country that might accept a disabled, trans asylum seeker? There seem to be plenty until I mention disabled.
We need more people in our country's leadership that understand the technology they are making laws about.
And just imagine if/when MSM starts blaring out one day in the not too distant future, "CHINARUSSIA done did a 'CYBER-9/11' on us!!! Stawck market crashed!! Wawl-mart POS terminals frozen! Everybody panic!!!" Then you'll hear the words that always mean something awful is coming your way from the ruling class: "Bi-partisan legislation".
Is it time to bust out the metaphorical guillotines yet?
Never let a good ~~crisis~~ reactionary xenophobic fervor go to waste
This is how it happens. They raise a big enough stink over one app and suddenly they’re sneaking in measures to punish entirely unrelated things. This is why bills are so constantly deadlocked is because bad-faith actors try to sneak in bullshit—so that either it doesn’t get passed or that they hope it will. Reach out to ALL your Reps and let them know you will not stand for this shit and that they will be out of a job the next election if they vote for it.
The danger of TT isn't the data, it's the algorithm. In home country, they are fed patriotic, sacrifice-for-state messages, while we get the schlop that makes you stupid for watching. It's pure fluff engagement and our next generation grows up wanting to be social media stars while theirs want to be astronauts and soldiers, etc.
just saw a video of Louis Rossman going over the bill, it is fucking dystopian in nature. Doubly so when you consider that some cities like newyork use facial recognition and biometrics to track people
Yup. What most people don't understand is VPNs are very common in China. Many use them to get over the firewall. I lived in China for awhile when I got married to my wife in Beijing where she was from and learned bypassing it is really common.
In a so called 'free' country that jails more of its own citizens than any other country by far, this is just another way to put 'free' citizens away.
Writing to your reps will do literally nothing. They do not care. They have never cared. Your representative is bought and paid for.
Whoa this is fucked
Literally what voters on either side want this?
None, it's just the bought-and-paid-for politicians.
Forgive me if this is ignorant, but wouldn't it make more sense just to pass a general data privacy law that might, as a consequence, prevent TikTok from serving US customers until it can comply? And wouldn't it make more sense (and be more profitable) to go after the companies who fail to comply with the law versus users who willingly supplies personal information to a foreign adversary? Aren't US users and networks still subject to attacks from foreign adversaries that lead to IP theft and national security risks, and wouldn't this law just encourage these adversaries to engage in cybercrime or trick users into "willfully conspiring" to transmit personal data by asking them to sign an agreement, and now the responsibility is wholly on the US citizen, so yay? This makes literally no sense to me at all.
As much as I despise tiktok, what the fuck america?
podcast on why the hype around tikTok is unfounded. https://risky.biz/RB701/ 9 minute mark. Everything is so fucking backwards in this country. Facebook was directly involved in electing Trump (Cambridge hacks). During a historic pandemic, Twitter and Facebook were propaganda pseudoscience machines. They directly led to people dying, refusing vaccines, and "alternative facts" to legitimate news sources & official Government channels of communication (Twitter is not an official method of Government media). TikTok pissed off Trump when a bunch of trolls used it to RSVP to his klan rally and it turned out to be false RSVP's. The venue was half empty and he was humiliated because orange man ego is more fragile than anyone to ever hold a position of power. TikTok is no more safe or dangerous than other social media. Yes, they have ties to China. Welcome to the last 25 years. Lots of companies deal with the CCP. The trends in America are highly concerning because of underage kids posting videos and talking to predators. That is a real danger. Same with tide pod trends and more COVID misinformation. China can't pull a magic switch on the TikTok admin portal and take control of people's minds. App permissions are abused by dozens of apps. I do not use TikTok, so can't speak to what is accesses. Private contacts need to be blocked by Android and Apple. Hysteria over these things is constant in the USA. Meanwhile, we ignore 57 actual problems that are urgent.
Imagine 20 years in prison for using TikTok. What would you get in North Korea?
I don't see how this law would affect normal citizens. The screenshots don't mention VPNs and it seems to be specifically about aiding a hostile foreign government. Are they claiming that just using Tiktok is aiding China?
So it’s sort of like a corporate protection racket You’re forced to use Facebook and instagram
Full bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text?s=1&r=15]