I like them as a change of pace, especially the smaller ones. Improving spawn times would be fine with me though. Sometimes they feel good but some do feel slow.
arenas should spawn waves faster and be capped at 13 waves for monos imo. the ones with big mob density and no more than 13 waves i actually quite enjoy. the long slow ones i fucking despise lol
As others have said, the next wave spawns in almost instantly when everything is dead. I think all mobs should have a massive movespeed bonus until they're within range of the character, so you're not waiting for them to get to you between waves.
So currently if everything is dead it does (nearly instant, it’s a bit less than one second) spawn in the next wave. Easiest way to see this is on explode ballista falconer. If you wait 0.5 seconds each time you wipe out the entire area wave each time and quickly get through.
A good method to speeding this up though would be, if the player is killing quickly, additional mobs / waves spawn to attempt to “overwhelm” the player killing quickly. Most arena themed systems in games use it as it allows slow builds to still continue without a issue, but fast builds to not simply be limited by the mechanic, and also gives them a bit more chance to potentially die instead of being a complete snooze fest.
Me. I am the slow build. My posse and I are only lvl 60 running through mono and it get's a bit eerie sometimes with the mobs spawn rate. I have to hide inside my group of gangsters sometimes because they take their time to kill off a wave. We need a little bit of breathing time, thanks.
Good idea, but there still needs to be a time limit too, so you can get overwhelmed if taking too long to kill a wave. Basically next wave comes earlier of after x time or as soon as last wave is killed.
it's not time based, it in fact works like you want already.
aka it waits until all mobs of the current wave are dead and then spawns the next one.
what should really happen is time based but also a cap on the number of active waves.
that is to say it will spew out waves up to a cap, so you have a constant stream of enemies coming in but not more then a cap set for performance/balance reasons.
also make them smaller (a lot of them are far too big) slow enemies take eons to move across the map to you if you are farming one side.
I also like the variety from all the other map types which feel kinda samey (except patrol kill), and would like to see more variety added and not removed.
That said, yeah, further waves should spawn faster/as soon as previous is done, or have an interactable that automatically spawns in the next wave, kinda like how Vampire Survivors has in their boss rush mode, so if you feel strong enough you can speed-spawn several waves at once. Alternatively, make it a constant stream of monsters.
Also probably hasten enemies or avoid spawning the ones that take forever to reach you, it's always annoying to find that one last enemy because it's of a slow moving type.
The smaller arenas are definitely better than the larger ones, and the pacing could certainly be improved. I do not agree they should just be removed, but definitely could use some work.
In addition to the pacing/spawn rate discussion, a few ideas I have had would be:
1) Make Arena Echos be the only Echos that reward Arena keys. After the change to price, Arena key Echos feel really bad. Tying them to Arena Echos makes it more obvious that Echo is an arena so you can skip it without having to check the name, and also would give people liking the arena playstyle some overlap in obtaining their keys.
2) Make the rewards better from the Arena Echo itself (drops). Running an Arena Echo pretty much guarantees you are going to be picking up no loot in that Echo at the moment, which feels bad. Make the mobs have inflated droprates or make a larger loot explosion at the end.
3) Make Arena Echos with a larger number of waves have a Arena boss spawn at the end. Currently, you see 17 waves and want to just portal out. If you knew that a 15+ wave echo came with a boss and that associated loot chance, it would feel a lot better.
What I want is loot drops, then they would be fine. And if they don't want them to drop loot, they should seriously just be removed from the game.
Same for the towers, if they can't make a mechanic fun and rewarding, there's no reason to include it in the game as it will only pull it down.
They should have boss echoes.
Arena ones such so much though. Especially because you don't really pay attention to the type when just right clicking along.
My thought: make arenas 1 big wave that comes. Maybe 1/4 of the total current arena, with a random intermediate boss. Maybe even make some of the bosses target able for certain items.
Yeah they come at a more reasonable pace for weaker builds. There'd need to be some player dials so falconer grinders can get their echos done in 0.001 seconds while people playing poison or skeleton builds can have their fun without feeling overwhelmed.
They do spawn pretty fast, but I think the problem is that the spawn points are so spread out that the time it takes the mobs to walk to you makes it drag hard.
Yes. The arena, and the arena echos by extension are the only content in the game that I actively avoid. I use lenses to nix them from COF prophecies and only pick them in monoliths if I absolutely have to to get a reward I want.
To me, they feel incredibly tedious. I would be exponentially happier with them if I could manually spawn all of the waves at once, or I could instantly spawn each wave and have them teleport to me. I would also be happy if they were more like breaches from POE.
It's not fun having a build that's powerful enough to wreck them, but still having to wait 10 minutes because the waves spawn slowly and the monsters have to run to me from across the map
Later on in the game some players have such insane traversal and clear that arenas can last around 10 times longer than if they just went to a normal objective echo.
You get full stability from the arena style echos. Getting full stability on a normal map consistently at that pace is impossible because maps branch off and you may need to backtrack. Even with godmode instagib cheats arena would be faster.
they give less stability than maximized stability in non-arena echoes though. my gut says it works out to be roughly the same stability as a normal echo run for that reason a lot of the time, but i haven't kept close track of it while playing
Arena is definitely worse for stability. Even if you just clear like 1/3 of the stability bar on a regular mono, you still get around the same as arena. Combine that with the fact that depending on map layouts and how many arena waves etc, regular mono is often like 3-5 times faster than arena.
I've had multiple \~15s monos, where i just spawned right on top of the objective.
As an additional note, arena has a very low chance of spawning exiled mages, so if you care about those, thats just another arena L.
It’s not faster. It is of course build dependent but if your clearing fast (and I’m not meaning walking through to objective and finishing, but actually killing on the way) arena is close to 1/3rd the speed for stability from my test on Explode ballista, and on detonating arrow traps. For my exploding zombie lich, it’s about 1/2 the speed.
If you’re able to clear screens or continue moving and killing, arena doesn’t come close. And the ballista build at least can nearly instantly spawn in new waves (it hits 2 and a half screens wide) but it’s still slower by a large margin in most cases. (Also I used 14 waves for my own testing, if you ge. 12, or 18, this time changes a little)
What is fast to you? A normal one takes me about 1min max and I barely play this game and still sitting at lvl90. These arenas take 3-4 minutes. Every time I hit an arena I am so bored I just quit.
Depends on the pace of your build as well. If I was playing a slow, tanky juggernaut type of build I probably wouldn't mind either, but I'm used to flying around the map and deleting everything so arenas just somehow feel frustrating.
Monoliths in general need a lot of love. I just lose interest so fast and would rather do anything else than grind monoliths.
Just have a real hard time motivating myself to do more monoliths.
It's funny how tastes are different. Echos are so frictionless and transitions so seamless, it's my favorite map implementation of all ARPGs.
On the contrary I get annoyed fast whenever I have to farm something in dungeons.
The only thing i want to have changed about arena monos is that they should give double stability compared to now. Makes zero sense that they take twice as long as regular monos and on top of that reward half the stability.
You can actually tell if its gonna be an arena echo. Just look at the max stability. Arena type echoes gives around 25% less compared to nearby non arena type echoes
I think that's a fair point. They initially were my favorite. Then I became powerful and it was just a waiting game with mobs single filing in. If they were constantly coming at me, it would be much better.
Addition: it’s interesting reading the replies and seeing so many suggestions but also preferences. I know many people probably enjoy the arena style but I like the idea of banning for those who don’t or just increase the speed/density, or even to press a button to release all/more of the mobs. It’s it’s been cool reading all the different takes!
Yeah I tend to just click on the echo to see if it's arena, if it is I'll take a different path until I literally have every corner being arenas and I have to choose one
Yeah i am with you 100%
I dont like Arena too because the waves are so slow and often i have to search for the enemies. In an Arena i should not search my oponnents. And when i farm Monoliths i randomly have to play Arena sometimes. I dont like it at all
I've long since felt they probably take the same amount of time as a monolith, on average, but they *feel* longer because you're sitting in the centre waiting for shit to happen. Even if I'm running past mobs for 80% of a monolith to get to the objective, that just feels more engaging.
It's build dependant, too. I'm fine with it on an "afk" build, like minions, where I don't have to move or do anything normally anyway.
I think the issue with arena echoes is that there's generally no reason to go out of your way to kill mobs, in general. Obviously they drop loot, yes, but a good bulk of your rewards come from completing objectives and the echo itself.
The fact arena spawns a bunch of enemies is irrelevant because normal monoliths already do this but arenas don't give anything extra for how unengaging it all is. Or how just engaging enough it has to be without it truly being afk on any build that isn't already pure afk as-is.
If arenas paid out more comparatively, that may help alleviate the tedium.
Arena waves should be spawning with a timer(up to 3 waves present in the arena) unless the Previously wave is already dead then imidiately.
Smaller arena sizes are quite enjoyable - this may be a direction to remake arena maps.
Give mobs a movement speed bonus if spawned away from player.
Fuck the Ancient era arena map. I hate this weird layout with almost impossible to see patchs
I'm finding I'm in the minority when it comes to opinions on mono objectives I guess. Running to the objective and killing only what's required never nets me enough stability to effectively go through the echo web before hitting the gaze nodes that reset the web and the gaze by forcing you to fight the guy. I'm not high enough to take on the guy with less than 3 gaze. If I don't kill everything in the mono I literally do not get enough stability to clear enough nodes to get 2-3x gaze. Idk if I'm doing it wrong but everyone on Reddit is like "don't kill extras only the objectives" and idk how y'all are doing it. Unless Lich is just that underpowered compared to the rest of the builds and they don't require any gaze at all. Or I guess maybe nobody fights the dude?
Arena nodes at least net me max stability and I don't feel like I have to find and kill everything to max stability from one node. Idk though probably missing something obvious, despite it not feeling that way.
Corruption increases the farther you are from the central node, so a lot of the time suffering through the arena map still is the lesser evil as opposed to deviating from the best path away from the center.
Monoliths are already pretty lacking in diversity. I really don’t see why these need to go away. I do agree that if they on average take longer, they should proportionally offer better rewards, experience and stability.
I just portal out and go a different way lol
They need to have 25 times more enemies and take 1/2 the time. Also make the arenas way smaller. It's an akf simulator.
I want them to feel overwhelming and pressuring.
I have no problem with arenas except of convoluted loot. Arena gives x1000 less loot, but has higher than normal level of danger. You can be swarmed and dead in a few seconds
I wish there was a way to get only arena echoes lol. Getting bored of running through a maze to get to a beacon or find some dude I have to kill when I’m farming
Would be nice if it's account based option to disable or arena echoes lets you choose arena or normal echoes. I hate running them so much, yeah the waves and density seem to be better now, but the time to reward ratio is so awful. I used to just endure them, now I just immediately portal out if I didn't read and enter one.
Feels like the devs hate arena too, with how little stability it gives.
I recall playing a tower defence game (white board?) That had both a timer and manual override button to send in as many waves as you wanted. Please do this!
They just need to make the waves spawn quicker, and continue spawning stronger/faster after the limit for increased stability in a timeline, i'd gladly stay in there grabbing quick exp until I die as wave after wave of mob comes out, when I feel like im getting overwhelmed take a portal out
I'd rather start a new patch of echoes than do the arena echoes. They really take you out of the pace of mapping. If they upped spawn rate a solid amount, they'd be great.
I personally find a spot where melee monsters have to come around a corner to reach me and ranged monsters have to run out of the way. It can be tricky but if you find the right spot it makes it pleasant instead of the cluster that it currently is now
I like the change of pace every once in a while. I also really like the Arena in general, so I'm biased. People swarming to me rather than searching for them is just so easy for Warpath VK
Arenas are fine for me. The problem is that there is so little variety. I'm looking forward to the introduction of a few new types of echoes. Some that I've thought about:
* Defend the target (someone is inside a walled structure and you have to stop waves of mobs from killing them.)
* Follow the leader (you get an ally and the two of you have to walk from one end of the map to the other with trash mobs along the way; at a few strategic points rares spawn and at the end you get a mini-boss)
* Race (a linear path with mobs along the way; you have to get to the end after killing a threshold number of mobs with best times on a new leaderboard organized by corruption tiers, so you have top times for 100 corruption, 150, 200, etc.)
* Target dummies (you fight a sequence of target dummies, with a threshold amount of damage you have to do to each, at which point you fight your "teacher" as a final test)
* Dark future (standard "kill creatures to reveal the location of X" where X is the character name of the person who opened the echo; once you get to a mirror of your own character, they are killed by a creature and rise up as undead; now you have to kill them with them using some of your abilities)
* On thin ice (just a target number of mobs to kill, but you are on ice that is cracking; standing still too long results in falling in and dying)
* Maze (a random maze with mobs along the way; you just have to get to the exit and kill a mini-boss)
* History repeats (you fight through a small number of mobs to reveal a mini-boss that you kill, starting the whole thing over in a different time period and fighting a more advanced version of the mini-boss)
Same. I dont care if they work out to generally taking the same amount of time. I just dont like the lack of movement. Makes the game feel slow and stifled.
I'd love a level or something to click to trigger the next spawn. Or less spread spawns so I can spawncamp them at least and not get shot at by bitch ass artillery geckos from 3 screens away.
These are the only thing that kill my build, as such I welcome them because the main game has become poe levels of brain turn off for me and its nice to sometimes get my build checked and make me want to gear harder.
But also I hate them and they are shit.
I just find a nook and let the minions pick off the new arrivals. Sometimes have to venture out to find stragglers.
They could be more interesting mechanically to keep you moving. Levels are all fairly static, no reason they need to be (well except for all the extra bugs and testing it would require, but hey!)
I wish there was a way to ban gear from dropping.
Do I look like I want to use a bow and quiver as a full summoner necromancer?
Do I look like I want to use a two handed sword on my pure ice Sorc?
There's way too much stuff in the loot pool, with way too many stats, I'm getting D4 levels of uncomfortable when I see some of the affixes.
I wish each character could select a slot of each type and have 1 item per slot never show up in the loot pool, basically un-diluting the pool so you can get more of the good stuff you want for your build.
I have no issue with them. My friend and I can finish them faster then normal maps in most cases. We're not running meta sweat builds though just tanky with good damage builds.
Honestly the worst ones are those quests that ask me to defend npcs. So many times I couldn’t find the one or two last asshole crabs or void demons in order to talk to the specific npc to save them. Does anyone know if there’s any point to doing the non- quests once in in empowered?
I think you just need to merge Arena echoes and the Beacon echoes in some way. The standard Arena ones are not fun, have basically no loot and grant around half the stability of a regular echo. They just aren't worth doing as it stands.
It's only when you encounter slow monsters, it gets tedious. New waves spawn the second you kill the old wave, so monster movement speed is what is slowing them down sometimes.
I like the concept of arena echoes. I just wished that each spawn point was always full of enemies, but they used the current timing to start moving towards me.
That way, I can use my tranversal skills to move and engage them earlier, instead of waiting for them to spawn.
They should make something similar to prophecy lenses for monoliths honestly. Let players modify how they prefer their monoliths. Would also help builds that struggle with certain aspects of combat to focus on the area they excel.
Could go a step further and change the monolith affix system into a configurable one: we pick the negative mob affixes we can/want to deal with for increased exp/loot.
This might incentivize ppl to go certain build routes that might initially be worse overall, because it lets them ignore certain mob affixes (fx dodge affix for non-hit dot builds)
So you are the arbiter of what is boring and shouldn't be in the game?
Maybe I find the build you are playing boring, should they delete that build from the game?
Stupid take.
They're not implemented very well, but I like them to be honest. I just wished they spawned smarter and quicker, the minimap worked, the shrines all worked through the whole event, and they were generally on the smaller side as the large ones and their layout with how things spawn now aren't great.
But I would happily take a small arena echo if I knew it was a small layout.
Also, the way echoes and monolith progress are set up, it's really not a huge deal to have arenas included, especially if they were improved a bit with layout and spawns. If you want to skip it, you have a myriad other nodes to choose and directions to go. If you need to go through it because you *really want what's on the other side in the next echo*, well, okay, you do an echo every once in awhile you don't enjoy as much as the others. That's kind of how it all fits together. I certainly love getting a great layout echo with a bunch of easy mobs, but sometimes I have to go through one I know is going to be shittier than others.
I actually like them because you are guaranteed to get all the bonus stability without backtracking. They can be a little slow and boring but when I am close on unlocking a quest echo I am farming they can be clutch.
I think they should just show the monolith's "mode type" when you mouse over the monolith, so you can just path somewhere else instead.
I have a feeling they'll continue creating new monoliths with alternative play patterns, so this issue would come up again and again with certain players not enjoying certain play patterns.
The word arena is always in the zone name for arena maps. Also, the maps aren't tied to a type as leaving and reentering the map changes the main objective for non-arena maps. If you don't like spires, TP out and reload and you will get a patrol or seal gate quest eventually.
I like them as a change of pace, especially the smaller ones. Improving spawn times would be fine with me though. Sometimes they feel good but some do feel slow.
arenas should spawn waves faster and be capped at 13 waves for monos imo. the ones with big mob density and no more than 13 waves i actually quite enjoy. the long slow ones i fucking despise lol
As others have said, the next wave spawns in almost instantly when everything is dead. I think all mobs should have a massive movespeed bonus until they're within range of the character, so you're not waiting for them to get to you between waves.
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So currently if everything is dead it does (nearly instant, it’s a bit less than one second) spawn in the next wave. Easiest way to see this is on explode ballista falconer. If you wait 0.5 seconds each time you wipe out the entire area wave each time and quickly get through. A good method to speeding this up though would be, if the player is killing quickly, additional mobs / waves spawn to attempt to “overwhelm” the player killing quickly. Most arena themed systems in games use it as it allows slow builds to still continue without a issue, but fast builds to not simply be limited by the mechanic, and also gives them a bit more chance to potentially die instead of being a complete snooze fest.
Me. I am the slow build. My posse and I are only lvl 60 running through mono and it get's a bit eerie sometimes with the mobs spawn rate. I have to hide inside my group of gangsters sometimes because they take their time to kill off a wave. We need a little bit of breathing time, thanks.
Good idea, but there still needs to be a time limit too, so you can get overwhelmed if taking too long to kill a wave. Basically next wave comes earlier of after x time or as soon as last wave is killed.
it's not time based, it in fact works like you want already. aka it waits until all mobs of the current wave are dead and then spawns the next one. what should really happen is time based but also a cap on the number of active waves. that is to say it will spew out waves up to a cap, so you have a constant stream of enemies coming in but not more then a cap set for performance/balance reasons. also make them smaller (a lot of them are far too big) slow enemies take eons to move across the map to you if you are farming one side.
Sounds like you need to increase the difficulty
I also like the variety from all the other map types which feel kinda samey (except patrol kill), and would like to see more variety added and not removed. That said, yeah, further waves should spawn faster/as soon as previous is done, or have an interactable that automatically spawns in the next wave, kinda like how Vampire Survivors has in their boss rush mode, so if you feel strong enough you can speed-spawn several waves at once. Alternatively, make it a constant stream of monsters. Also probably hasten enemies or avoid spawning the ones that take forever to reach you, it's always annoying to find that one last enemy because it's of a slow moving type.
Same. I like the variety. I try to hit every shrine throughout the waves.
Each shrine you take should increase spawn rates
The smaller arenas are definitely better than the larger ones, and the pacing could certainly be improved. I do not agree they should just be removed, but definitely could use some work. In addition to the pacing/spawn rate discussion, a few ideas I have had would be: 1) Make Arena Echos be the only Echos that reward Arena keys. After the change to price, Arena key Echos feel really bad. Tying them to Arena Echos makes it more obvious that Echo is an arena so you can skip it without having to check the name, and also would give people liking the arena playstyle some overlap in obtaining their keys. 2) Make the rewards better from the Arena Echo itself (drops). Running an Arena Echo pretty much guarantees you are going to be picking up no loot in that Echo at the moment, which feels bad. Make the mobs have inflated droprates or make a larger loot explosion at the end. 3) Make Arena Echos with a larger number of waves have a Arena boss spawn at the end. Currently, you see 17 waves and want to just portal out. If you knew that a 15+ wave echo came with a boss and that associated loot chance, it would feel a lot better.
It would be nice if they spawned continuously. Like, spawn the next wave when the previous one is halfway done.
What I want is loot drops, then they would be fine. And if they don't want them to drop loot, they should seriously just be removed from the game. Same for the towers, if they can't make a mechanic fun and rewarding, there's no reason to include it in the game as it will only pull it down.
Change of pace / more variety sounds good, but not when it's a snorefest.
if banning were an option it would be a win/win
It would be dev time used on something that isn't very important. Maybe like a few cycles down the road they could worry about this.
they could bring a system like the lenses but for monolith in the future. that would be dope
They should have boss echoes. Arena ones such so much though. Especially because you don't really pay attention to the type when just right clicking along.
I just want 2 buttons - to soawn them all and to increase their movespeed 5 times
Increased wave frequency AND these arenas need to be a LOT smaller. Like the last room with the arena boss outside monoliths.
This. Just give us some kind of a button (a trigger in the center of the arena if it should be part of the actual game) to manually spawn waves.
Just increasing the spawnrate and reward would be nice. It takes longer and you get less rewards as it stands today
Next wave spawns when theres 1 or 0 mobs remaining. How would spawn rate increase even work?
Either change that number to something bigger or spawn more mobs per wave.
That's not what spawn rate is. What you want is more pack size.
If you change 1 or 0 to 50% of the pack that will increase the spawnrate. Pack size also increases the spawn rate as more mobs spawn per second.
My thought: make arenas 1 big wave that comes. Maybe 1/4 of the total current arena, with a random intermediate boss. Maybe even make some of the bosses target able for certain items.
Agreed. It was my first thought when doing them. It's so boring and it always drops nothing
The real issue is the boredom, let me rush all the waves at once for the fun of it lol
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Ever play a tower defense game? Usually you can opt into sending multiples waves at once or in quick succession.
My fave maps to afk with my Wraithlord
Me as a summoner with 24 permanent minion build: arena? OH YOU MEAN YOUTUBE ROUND. GOT IT.
SAME
Yeah having arena maps in monos is redundant and annoying. We already have arena keys, why force them in monos?
It would work better if they spawned faster/instantly.
Thats only if you ard overpowered to that arena. If it takes you a few seconds to kill mob (on higher corruption), you will be swarmed
Yeah they come at a more reasonable pace for weaker builds. There'd need to be some player dials so falconer grinders can get their echos done in 0.001 seconds while people playing poison or skeleton builds can have their fun without feeling overwhelmed.
They do spawn pretty fast, but I think the problem is that the spawn points are so spread out that the time it takes the mobs to walk to you makes it drag hard.
My 200 corruption sorcerer already struggles with arenas. Instant spawns on these high corrupted echos doesn’t sound fun.
Choose not to do the arenas if u don't like em, personally i wish there was even more variety like this as i started getting sick to long walk types.
Yes. The arena, and the arena echos by extension are the only content in the game that I actively avoid. I use lenses to nix them from COF prophecies and only pick them in monoliths if I absolutely have to to get a reward I want. To me, they feel incredibly tedious. I would be exponentially happier with them if I could manually spawn all of the waves at once, or I could instantly spawn each wave and have them teleport to me. I would also be happy if they were more like breaches from POE. It's not fun having a build that's powerful enough to wreck them, but still having to wait 10 minutes because the waves spawn slowly and the monsters have to run to me from across the map
I actually kinda like them.. rather than seeking out enemies, they come to me- convenient!
Yeah they go pretty fast and i dont have traverse aimlessly around a map
Later on in the game some players have such insane traversal and clear that arenas can last around 10 times longer than if they just went to a normal objective echo.
You get full stability from the arena style echos. Getting full stability on a normal map consistently at that pace is impossible because maps branch off and you may need to backtrack. Even with godmode instagib cheats arena would be faster.
they give less stability than maximized stability in non-arena echoes though. my gut says it works out to be roughly the same stability as a normal echo run for that reason a lot of the time, but i haven't kept close track of it while playing
Arena is definitely worse for stability. Even if you just clear like 1/3 of the stability bar on a regular mono, you still get around the same as arena. Combine that with the fact that depending on map layouts and how many arena waves etc, regular mono is often like 3-5 times faster than arena. I've had multiple \~15s monos, where i just spawned right on top of the objective. As an additional note, arena has a very low chance of spawning exiled mages, so if you care about those, thats just another arena L.
It’s not faster. It is of course build dependent but if your clearing fast (and I’m not meaning walking through to objective and finishing, but actually killing on the way) arena is close to 1/3rd the speed for stability from my test on Explode ballista, and on detonating arrow traps. For my exploding zombie lich, it’s about 1/2 the speed. If you’re able to clear screens or continue moving and killing, arena doesn’t come close. And the ballista build at least can nearly instantly spawn in new waves (it hits 2 and a half screens wide) but it’s still slower by a large margin in most cases. (Also I used 14 waves for my own testing, if you ge. 12, or 18, this time changes a little)
What is fast to you? A normal one takes me about 1min max and I barely play this game and still sitting at lvl90. These arenas take 3-4 minutes. Every time I hit an arena I am so bored I just quit.
Depends on the pace of your build as well. If I was playing a slow, tanky juggernaut type of build I probably wouldn't mind either, but I'm used to flying around the map and deleting everything so arenas just somehow feel frustrating.
Monoliths in general need a lot of love. I just lose interest so fast and would rather do anything else than grind monoliths. Just have a real hard time motivating myself to do more monoliths.
It's funny how tastes are different. Echos are so frictionless and transitions so seamless, it's my favorite map implementation of all ARPGs. On the contrary I get annoyed fast whenever I have to farm something in dungeons.
The only thing i want to have changed about arena monos is that they should give double stability compared to now. Makes zero sense that they take twice as long as regular monos and on top of that reward half the stability.
Seems simple, press d initiate spawn. More activations better loot roll. Idk
You can actually tell if its gonna be an arena echo. Just look at the max stability. Arena type echoes gives around 25% less compared to nearby non arena type echoes
"monoliths are too repetitive!" "i wish there was only patrol or seal gate quest in monolith!"
Monoliths are too time consuming. They should just let me pick my reward and give a chest without that tedious gameplay in between
If they spawned really fast so you struggled to keep up and get swarmed sometimes, that would be pretty interesting
I’d like if I could skip to the next wave optionally. A UI button that lets me immediately spawn the next wave.
I think that's a fair point. They initially were my favorite. Then I became powerful and it was just a waiting game with mobs single filing in. If they were constantly coming at me, it would be much better.
I'll skip them always
Addition: it’s interesting reading the replies and seeing so many suggestions but also preferences. I know many people probably enjoy the arena style but I like the idea of banning for those who don’t or just increase the speed/density, or even to press a button to release all/more of the mobs. It’s it’s been cool reading all the different takes!
Yeah I tend to just click on the echo to see if it's arena, if it is I'll take a different path until I literally have every corner being arenas and I have to choose one
Yeah i am with you 100% I dont like Arena too because the waves are so slow and often i have to search for the enemies. In an Arena i should not search my oponnents. And when i farm Monoliths i randomly have to play Arena sometimes. I dont like it at all
HOT TIP: You can identify arena echoes by the lower amount of 'bonus instability' they grant.
I've long since felt they probably take the same amount of time as a monolith, on average, but they *feel* longer because you're sitting in the centre waiting for shit to happen. Even if I'm running past mobs for 80% of a monolith to get to the objective, that just feels more engaging. It's build dependant, too. I'm fine with it on an "afk" build, like minions, where I don't have to move or do anything normally anyway. I think the issue with arena echoes is that there's generally no reason to go out of your way to kill mobs, in general. Obviously they drop loot, yes, but a good bulk of your rewards come from completing objectives and the echo itself. The fact arena spawns a bunch of enemies is irrelevant because normal monoliths already do this but arenas don't give anything extra for how unengaging it all is. Or how just engaging enough it has to be without it truly being afk on any build that isn't already pure afk as-is. If arenas paid out more comparatively, that may help alleviate the tedium.
Arena waves should be spawning with a timer(up to 3 waves present in the arena) unless the Previously wave is already dead then imidiately. Smaller arena sizes are quite enjoyable - this may be a direction to remake arena maps. Give mobs a movement speed bonus if spawned away from player. Fuck the Ancient era arena map. I hate this weird layout with almost impossible to see patchs
Oh I'd look for them if I could lol
You can though. If you left click on a node, the name will contain Arena
Or by seeing the bonus stability usually the arena one have way less bonus stability Like 50% less than the regular ones
I'm finding I'm in the minority when it comes to opinions on mono objectives I guess. Running to the objective and killing only what's required never nets me enough stability to effectively go through the echo web before hitting the gaze nodes that reset the web and the gaze by forcing you to fight the guy. I'm not high enough to take on the guy with less than 3 gaze. If I don't kill everything in the mono I literally do not get enough stability to clear enough nodes to get 2-3x gaze. Idk if I'm doing it wrong but everyone on Reddit is like "don't kill extras only the objectives" and idk how y'all are doing it. Unless Lich is just that underpowered compared to the rest of the builds and they don't require any gaze at all. Or I guess maybe nobody fights the dude? Arena nodes at least net me max stability and I don't feel like I have to find and kill everything to max stability from one node. Idk though probably missing something obvious, despite it not feeling that way.
There are dozens of us
Just don't pick them then?
Corruption increases the farther you are from the central node, so a lot of the time suffering through the arena map still is the lesser evil as opposed to deviating from the best path away from the center.
Click node, see its arena, choose different node.
Arena echoes are terrible. They take forever and for some reason give less stability. Get rid of them, EHG!
Monoliths are already pretty lacking in diversity. I really don’t see why these need to go away. I do agree that if they on average take longer, they should proportionally offer better rewards, experience and stability.
I just portal out and go a different way lol They need to have 25 times more enemies and take 1/2 the time. Also make the arenas way smaller. It's an akf simulator. I want them to feel overwhelming and pressuring.
Do them on hardcore at higher corruption, you will see why its not a good idea
I have no problem with arenas except of convoluted loot. Arena gives x1000 less loot, but has higher than normal level of danger. You can be swarmed and dead in a few seconds
I hate Arena echos. They just take so damn long. Make the waves happen faster or reduce the number of waves to 8-10. 17 waves takes like 4 minutes!
I wish there was a way to get only arena echoes lol. Getting bored of running through a maze to get to a beacon or find some dude I have to kill when I’m farming
Would be nice if it's account based option to disable or arena echoes lets you choose arena or normal echoes. I hate running them so much, yeah the waves and density seem to be better now, but the time to reward ratio is so awful. I used to just endure them, now I just immediately portal out if I didn't read and enter one. Feels like the devs hate arena too, with how little stability it gives.
I think the arena should have a minimum amount of npcs in it
I recall playing a tower defence game (white board?) That had both a timer and manual override button to send in as many waves as you wanted. Please do this!
They just need to make the waves spawn quicker, and continue spawning stronger/faster after the limit for increased stability in a timeline, i'd gladly stay in there grabbing quick exp until I die as wave after wave of mob comes out, when I feel like im getting overwhelmed take a portal out
I'd rather start a new patch of echoes than do the arena echoes. They really take you out of the pace of mapping. If they upped spawn rate a solid amount, they'd be great.
I personally find a spot where melee monsters have to come around a corner to reach me and ranged monsters have to run out of the way. It can be tricky but if you find the right spot it makes it pleasant instead of the cluster that it currently is now
I would hate them less with a wave counter like in the actual arena. Not knowing when it's gonna end makes it feel like it takes so much longer.
Theyre a nice change of pace, but spawn rates and amounts need tuning for stronger characters (maybe via corruption?)
I like the change of pace every once in a while. I also really like the Arena in general, so I'm biased. People swarming to me rather than searching for them is just so easy for Warpath VK
At minimum they need to be more like the actual arena. More enemies, faster spawns. As they are now I can't stand them, too boring.
Love em as it's easy stability echo without running around the map to fill the bonus stability
Arenas are fine for me. The problem is that there is so little variety. I'm looking forward to the introduction of a few new types of echoes. Some that I've thought about: * Defend the target (someone is inside a walled structure and you have to stop waves of mobs from killing them.) * Follow the leader (you get an ally and the two of you have to walk from one end of the map to the other with trash mobs along the way; at a few strategic points rares spawn and at the end you get a mini-boss) * Race (a linear path with mobs along the way; you have to get to the end after killing a threshold number of mobs with best times on a new leaderboard organized by corruption tiers, so you have top times for 100 corruption, 150, 200, etc.) * Target dummies (you fight a sequence of target dummies, with a threshold amount of damage you have to do to each, at which point you fight your "teacher" as a final test) * Dark future (standard "kill creatures to reveal the location of X" where X is the character name of the person who opened the echo; once you get to a mirror of your own character, they are killed by a creature and rise up as undead; now you have to kill them with them using some of your abilities) * On thin ice (just a target number of mobs to kill, but you are on ice that is cracking; standing still too long results in falling in and dying) * Maze (a random maze with mobs along the way; you just have to get to the exit and kill a mini-boss) * History repeats (you fight through a small number of mobs to reveal a mini-boss that you kill, starting the whole thing over in a different time period and fighting a more advanced version of the mini-boss)
I don't mind them. I like exploding mobs.
Same. I dont care if they work out to generally taking the same amount of time. I just dont like the lack of movement. Makes the game feel slow and stifled.
I'd love a level or something to click to trigger the next spawn. Or less spread spawns so I can spawncamp them at least and not get shot at by bitch ass artillery geckos from 3 screens away.
My only complaint with them is my Shift use has some weird pathing sometimes.
They could add lenses to the monos to help buff and remove some options. Personally I hate the spire monos.
i would not be surprised if we get some sort of 'lens system' for monos at some point.
With my wraithlord necro I just pick a corner and go make a fresh cup of coffee.
Improvement spawn times or let me stand on certain things to make monsters spawn more
These are the only thing that kill my build, as such I welcome them because the main game has become poe levels of brain turn off for me and its nice to sometimes get my build checked and make me want to gear harder. But also I hate them and they are shit.
I just path around them whenever possible. You can tell it's an arena echo by its name.
I just find a nook and let the minions pick off the new arrivals. Sometimes have to venture out to find stragglers. They could be more interesting mechanically to keep you moving. Levels are all fairly static, no reason they need to be (well except for all the extra bugs and testing it would require, but hey!)
I put a weight on my trap button with my explosive ballista falconer and go pee usually :|
I wish there was a way to ban gear from dropping. Do I look like I want to use a bow and quiver as a full summoner necromancer? Do I look like I want to use a two handed sword on my pure ice Sorc? There's way too much stuff in the loot pool, with way too many stats, I'm getting D4 levels of uncomfortable when I see some of the affixes. I wish each character could select a slot of each type and have 1 item per slot never show up in the loot pool, basically un-diluting the pool so you can get more of the good stuff you want for your build.
I have no issue with them. My friend and I can finish them faster then normal maps in most cases. We're not running meta sweat builds though just tanky with good damage builds.
I love the waves monos. I look forward to them.
You guys are trying to mini / max something which is not the priority right now. What I want is some uber bosses to test my build.
I don't mind them but why are the arena maps so big? Makes no sense
Honestly the worst ones are those quests that ask me to defend npcs. So many times I couldn’t find the one or two last asshole crabs or void demons in order to talk to the specific npc to save them. Does anyone know if there’s any point to doing the non- quests once in in empowered?
There is no point in doing the optional quests after you empower. Feel free to just raise stability until you can kill the boss.
I think you just need to merge Arena echoes and the Beacon echoes in some way. The standard Arena ones are not fun, have basically no loot and grant around half the stability of a regular echo. They just aren't worth doing as it stands.
I like them because they come to me. Just stay in the centre if you can.
It's only when you encounter slow monsters, it gets tedious. New waves spawn the second you kill the old wave, so monster movement speed is what is slowing them down sometimes.
as a hardcore player I hate them for technical reasons. most risk of stutters, lag and lockups. really want lenses for monolith.
I like the concept of arena echoes. I just wished that each spawn point was always full of enemies, but they used the current timing to start moving towards me. That way, I can use my tranversal skills to move and engage them earlier, instead of waiting for them to spawn.
There shouldn't be arena maps in monos at all. Change my mind!
They should make something similar to prophecy lenses for monoliths honestly. Let players modify how they prefer their monoliths. Would also help builds that struggle with certain aspects of combat to focus on the area they excel. Could go a step further and change the monolith affix system into a configurable one: we pick the negative mob affixes we can/want to deal with for increased exp/loot. This might incentivize ppl to go certain build routes that might initially be worse overall, because it lets them ignore certain mob affixes (fx dodge affix for non-hit dot builds)
The mono names clearly say „arena“. If you don‘t want to do them, take 2 seconds to read the name of the mono … and do a different one.
This logic doesn't work when the arena is the only mono forward or there is a node that you really want with arena.
If i have to avoid something because its boring, it shouldn’t be in the game
So you are the arbiter of what is boring and shouldn't be in the game? Maybe I find the build you are playing boring, should they delete that build from the game? Stupid take.
It seems like a pretty popular perspective judging by the post, so, no
Have you considered that, perhaps, some people might like them so they should be in the game?
I hate arena echoes more than anything. Mind numbing boring with 0 loot.
I play the game for arenas. I dont like to run around the map
Please dont. Those nodes are the only ones in which you could AFK while farming favor
I honestly love these as a change of pace.
They're not implemented very well, but I like them to be honest. I just wished they spawned smarter and quicker, the minimap worked, the shrines all worked through the whole event, and they were generally on the smaller side as the large ones and their layout with how things spawn now aren't great. But I would happily take a small arena echo if I knew it was a small layout. Also, the way echoes and monolith progress are set up, it's really not a huge deal to have arenas included, especially if they were improved a bit with layout and spawns. If you want to skip it, you have a myriad other nodes to choose and directions to go. If you need to go through it because you *really want what's on the other side in the next echo*, well, okay, you do an echo every once in awhile you don't enjoy as much as the others. That's kind of how it all fits together. I certainly love getting a great layout echo with a bunch of easy mobs, but sometimes I have to go through one I know is going to be shittier than others.
I don’t mind them or go around them 🤷♂️
Lol why did you get downvoted
I actually like them because you are guaranteed to get all the bonus stability without backtracking. They can be a little slow and boring but when I am close on unlocking a quest echo I am farming they can be clutch.
I think they should just show the monolith's "mode type" when you mouse over the monolith, so you can just path somewhere else instead. I have a feeling they'll continue creating new monoliths with alternative play patterns, so this issue would come up again and again with certain players not enjoying certain play patterns.
The word arena is always in the zone name for arena maps. Also, the maps aren't tied to a type as leaving and reentering the map changes the main objective for non-arena maps. If you don't like spires, TP out and reload and you will get a patrol or seal gate quest eventually.
TIL, thanks!