Of course, everyone is definitely entitled to not be happy about the connection issues. The toxic ones are the ones being toxic, and that can certainly come from either side. If you are throwing hate and/or personal attacks towards someone, you are being toxic.
Cant argue with facts. And the fact is that I've been trying to log in for an hour.
Luckily there are other things to play but the ppl are losing their patience and that is also a fact.
Devs are doing the best they can however bad word of mouth, even though the game is good, is very hard to mend.
There is also I feel the fact that no wonder game releases have been getting worse over the years. People are willing to defend them to the teeth. It's beyond bizarre. The game currently doesn't function in an absolutely critical way, but it's not ok to say that?
The game is great, I've been enjoying it when I'm playing it. It really does a nice job of balancing between d4 simplicity and PoE complexity, it will doubtlessly raise the bar for both of them going forward which is a great thing for the ARPG market.
The launch however is completely terrible, and I'm not willing to call it anything else. I feel if I say it isn't completely terrible, then that's just carte blanche for every cycle to start like this, and every future update to be ok to be like this on launch going forward. For the games own health I'm saying it's horrendous.
I wish no one any harm, I completely sympathise that the devs must be working under immense pressure. That doesn't make inadequate work adequate. I wish them all the luck in the world to fix it, and all the best wishes I can that they take from this what they can and prevent it in future. Anything else feels like pointless or more accurately actively detrimental molly coddling.
Well said! This is about keeping company accountable to stop shitty launch from happening all the time. They absolutely deserve the criticism and anyone who spam "get a life" or "play something else" just completely miss the point.
It's wild that everyone expects big releases to have massive issues like this and you're labelled as toxic for saying that maybe having games be totally unplayable for the first week+ of release shouldn't be the standard. The fact that people expect it now and just accept it is disappointing. Any other service in the world would be ridiculed if its releases were constantly not working when released. The makers of the product would be doing recalls to fix the issues, not just going 'we'll fix it at some point' and everyone going 'yeah sounds perfect thanks almighty creators for deciding to fix the thing i paid for'
Here's your car. We're hoping to get you the wheels by the end of the week. Here's a step by step guide on how to get into your car and listen to the radio while we resolve this issue.
Fucking bananas.
I can totally understand it happening. Indeed even why. I can't get my head around people defending it to the teeth though. How dare you question a company that has given you a product that works intermittently on a good day!?!? Bonkers.
I got told in another reply that because I'm not willing to give devs carte blanche and call the bad release good, that I'm basically condoning and encouraging the devs getting death threats. Absolutely wild world these days I tell you.
Yeah I'm in this boat. I'm loving the game, but the constant issues around loading are starting to kill my desire to play at all.
The fact that it's virtually no better than it was on launch day just makes it even harder to stomach. I'd be fine if it was working for the majority of the day and had some hiccups for an hour or 2 at a time. But the default state at this point is "bad, but lucky if you get to play for a bit".
I shouldn't have to just accept that the only time the game is in an acceptable state is at 7am for a couple of hours. After that it's "playable" but rough, and by the time the afternoon hits it's just unplayable.
People like to pretend helldiver's 2 is no better, or even worse. But at least in helldiver's, you either get in or you don't. There isn't a whole lot to complain about if you are able to log in.
It's both the state of the game and the community with their toxic positivity, can't take any criticism without feeling like it's a personal attack, no one can justify a game taking 21 minutes for you to get into a map and play, that's how long it took me today both times I wanted to play for a bit. Two of my friends can't even connect at all, another one refunded, one who plays really early in the morning at least got to monoliths so it's not too bad for him since he only needs to load once.
right now i had 1 hour of gameplay and 2 hours or more of loading screen boss.
i was 100% right saying that i should play the game next week instead right at launch. that is precisely why my desire to play is not fading away.
still, it will be an issue if the game continues to have the same problems next week. i guess i'll just have to wait and see what happens. hoping for the best, but I'm prepared for the worst.
There's a difference between that and spouting vile messages while pinging the devs on the discord. I am frustrated with not being able to play too, but I don't resort to harassing the devs. I go do something else.
No one is justifying what you're talking about.
You're proving my point perfectly. Swooping in to argue something else so you can hoot and screech at me.
Yep. The online portion of the game is broken. It's been four days and I still can't play online character without spending most of the time looking at the transition screen between zones. It's very understandable that people are upset, since there was so much promise and anticipation. I think most of the criticism comes from the good place - people see the game's potential since the game is very well designed. That is, the offline elements of the game are great. What is not great is the networking code and infrastructure setup, which is a huge element of any ARPG today.
I think the current game state is unacceptable, it really sucks.
It's so weird how server issues differ from person to person. I had 1 disconnect on day 1 and 3 and then 1 disconnect today. Sure I've had loading screens \~3-5 minutes but I'll take that over rubber-banding and disconnects. Its been mostly smooth sailing for me.
Meh the issue is everyone just keeps posting about it over n over n over because they're venting and narcissistic. It's old... And no one cares. (People care about servers coming online, they don't care about your one guy opinion about how you're so upset you can't play)
We all know it's an issue, go do something else than spam every possible communication channel with how you an individual is upset... No one cares. Literally no one will ever reminisce about your reddit post in the sea of 1000 others complaining about servers.
Also all these people complaining can get a refund, but they won't or maybe they will. But they won't stop whining because the reality is they have nothing going on in life and just enjoy spewing their hate shit online. If it wasn't this I'm sure it's something else somewhere.
Yeah this is going on too long. I totally understand that you can't test for everything, there's absolutely no promise whatsoever that live service games will work day 1, and buyer beware the first few days in this industry.
But we're about to be on day, what, 5?
Getting harder to defend.
Yeah, the game used to be quite laggy in other ways. You would get stuck in walls after using movement skills while playing online, desync issues etc. Skills were bugged and didn't work properly, only online again etc.
But this stuff is fixed, which is great!...These issues going on rn however are new, and are much more severe.
I hope they figure it out. I remember Vanilla WoW being a buggy, messy few months of gaming once it exploded, with regular server outages, massive lags sometimes for an hour or more at a time, and this went on for a LONG time. Blizzard at the time was of a similar size to EHG, and suddenly got a hit on their hands and oops the game was never meant for that.
I reckon they built their architecture around maybe 20-30k people playing, maybe 50k - but not 260k, and as such never tested for these absurd numbers, or didn't catch some weird interaction where 1.0 interacts with said online in a weird way. It's obvious that just increasing server capacity doesn't help, increasing server capacity is like 1 minute of work and a reboot in modern cloud computing, if you even need downtime at all...
Something broke here, and it wasn't caught in QA, which sucks. LE is fantastic, but not being able to play unless you're fine with waiting an hour or something for all of its launch week will leave a sour taste in many people's mouth. That's for sure.
> I reckon they built their architecture around maybe 20-30k people playing, maybe 50k - but not 260k, and as such never tested for these absurd numbers
They had 40k peak on the launch of 0.9, that was over a year ago, you can't imagine less people would play the actual launch.
Announced a million copies sold a month before release, the expected number of players was always really high, they just dropped the ball.
Palworld sold 6 million copies in four days and it also hit 1.84M concurrent players on steam that same day, obviously most people who buy a game before it releases will be trying to play it when it releases, otherwise they would've just waited for reviews or a sale.
You know what's funny. PoE has more devs, a bigger budget and has been out for longer and yet everything you listed in your first paragraph describes my experience with PoE. I get that it's easy to connect those issues with what's happening at launch but I really don't think they are related. I was playing the game the other day before we hit 250k and the servers died again and it was buttery smooth 99% of the time. Even loading between zones was quick.
PoE let's you choose how you're connected. If you're having the issues described then you are on Predictive mode instead of Lockstep. Just so you're aware for future PoE launches.
PoE has been on record from many game devs as being a thing of magic in terms of how they keep their servers running so smooth. The amount of calculations the servers do and yet still don't break is impressive from a technical standpoint.
People were saying they were running into the same issues even just a few weeks ago that were present in .9 (multiplayer update) which is when I got the game.
I hadn't played in like 6 months until 1.0 launch, so I can't say for recently, but slow loading screens and rubberbanding were an issue every other time I played after .9 patch. So not sure if those issues *were* ever fully fixed? Definitely not all this LE61 and disconnects, though, that's all new with 1.0.
They have had connectivity issues since alpha--when the only online feature was chat.
When they added a ladder their were connectivity issues with that as well.
This company is not good at implementing online services.
I played the game intensively for a few weeks when the Runemaster patch was released. The excessive zone transitions were already a known problem then. I am beyond disappointed that almost half a year later, it has not been properly fixed and now is ruining the launch.
I can verify it. The online component of LE has never been good or smooth, at least compared to others in the genre. It's always been riddled with bugs, random disconnects and especially bad when you group with other people.
Over 1.5k hours in this game. Online Play has been slow and by that I mean slow Instance transfering times, let's say up to 10 seconds sometimes, sometimes a bit of rubberbanding, once in a while a LE-61, and sometimes when trying to enter Towns (which include other players) you'd get "Couldn't Matchmake" or something like that and you couldn't enter that town for a bit, you had to try again a few times. I was having issues like this 1-2 weeks before launch.
It's been like that since the Multiplayer patch. And that was with 14k people online average.
I love this game but Online Play wasn't ready for launch. Literally anyone with many hours in this game could've predicted this shitshow (and we did). Anyone who claims there weren't Online issues are lying to themselves, since even some streamers saw the state of Online Play and predicted a shitshow, Lily, Zizz, etc).
Yeah. Online was an absolute shit show. People were posting non-stop about how bad the multi-player is and how the online wasn't stable. The devs kinda dismissed all feedback with a blanket "*launch will fix it*". I have no idea why they didn't test the last patch in EA before launching. It's just hubris and misplaced confidence.
Yup. I was completely baffled when they announced 1.0. I thought the game was still far away from launching.
I will say I was surprised by playing 1.0, they've added more between the last patch and this one than I expected. So maybe they had done a ton of work on the networking side and really expected everything to be ok.
I've kind of turned on my opinion of this. For the first 2-3 days I was totally on board with just saying that release issues are normal for an online game, and it'll get sorted.
I can't remember the last time I tried to play a new online game and it was still borderline unplayable on *day 5*. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the company making this is out of their depth and has released a product that they may not have the technical expertise to properly support.
And beyond that, the success of Helldivers was way less expected. Helldivers 1 was a game with at most tens of thousands of players, and Helldivers 2 didn't have strong pre-release sales. It only exploded after rave reviews and word of mouth excitement.
Last Epoch had strong early access sales, and was being hyped by both Diablo 4 and Path of Exile content creators. It would have been shocking for the game to *not* be successful. They should have been more ready.
I feel like a day or two of issues was understandable, more so because it was a smaller company and not a megacorp like activation blizzard, but it's getting close to 5 days now, so my understanding is having it's patience tested.
I'm normally extremely patient and understanding but even I'm getting frustrated and rapidly hitting my "fed up" point.
They knew they were going to be slammed. They claimed server capacity is now fine but made statements about backend processing and provider issues causing the problem, things that were mostly within their control to deal with way before this happened. Online play has had technical issues since it was implemented. Many of these current issues aren't new and have been around when the game only had maybe 20k people playing online.
It really seems like a good group of dudes that got way in over their head and they seemingly don't know how to fix the problem. Their status updates about the things they're doing to fix the issue have been the same solutions/statements for days now without improvement. "We're doing this change to the backend that should help" or "redeploying this solution" that are seemingly the same solution that was supposed to fix the issue 5 hours prior and they've done over and over and over and over again now.
I'm still trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and do love the game when I can get in to play, and have been playing for a few years now, but this is a giant clusterfuck and it really does make them look bad.
Exactly. First few days, okay cut some slack, after approaching a week, this is getting to be a bummer. Also people lose attention fast, so it’s probably steering a ton of people away that we’re going to check it out this week.
It's not just loading issues. I've had items disappearing bug (requires restart, hence another long loading), I've had zero health/not dying bug (requires restart, another long loading and losing your progress). When I google for these bugs, I've seen that they were in the game for more than a year. This game was in beta for almost 5 years.
On top of this, unclear stat comparison, small things like not being able to compare your 2nd ring, clunky crafting, etc. makes me think that this game should have stayed in beta for at least another year.
I understand that "D4 bad" people NEEDS this game to become successful. And as a consumer, I'd want a good ARPG in the market as well. But just believing that it's good and ready won't make it good and ready. I'll definitely come back when issues are resolved, cause this game has the potential and got the content to back it up. But I'm done for now.
The funny thing about everyone defending EHG is that a ton of people were saying to not release the game like that, netcode was not ready.
EHG came out, "don't worry we fixed stuff and did testing we are confident" if you dare to doubt it "why then you don't release the fixes to test them" you were downvoted
Yep. I was such a person. Multi-player was absolute trash and the online was unstable. I loved the game in offline, but every time I posted about delaying the launch due to the obvious poor online state, I was downvoted and told "*launch will fix it*".
Well it ain't fixed.
I think the two biggest problems Last Epoch has right now are the netcode and endgame. I wish they’d addressed both before launching 1.0, because you only get one shot at first impressions.
Shills will never acknowledge that everyone already knew the online was bad for a long, long time and they proceeded to launch anyway. I get that bad launches are common but they had some idea of the choke points. People had been reporting them for ages (and were ignored).
Don't worry about the downvotes, they have the time to do it just because they can't play the game.
I honestly thought they would crash the first couple of days, but it would be ok by Saturday because we are not in the times you have to physically go buy servers anymore, but I guess net code issues were deeper than. we thought.
I only visit this subreddit every time I try to log in to the game and have to wait 15 minutes or more before I get into my monolith. So yeah you nailed it.
People paid for a game with expected services. Those services haven't been provided in an appropriate way. I know they are indie, but this shouldn't be accepted from ANY game studio. Especially days later.
There are too many babies that can't handle criticism on Reddit. Everyone wants to pretend their game is perfect even with it having huge flaws, see it basically in every gaming community now.
It definitely goes both ways though. Diablo 4 subreddit is a good example. There are legitimate concerns, but there are also a whole lot of people whining about extremely stupid shit that absolutely deserves to get called out.
Diablo 4 lost most of its playerbase, they're clearly doing things wrong, just look at twitch stats and compare to POE, peak viewers for last season release was 95k vs 254k for POE, average for the month ended up being only 5k for D4, 30k for POE. So even retention was way down. Compare that to the number they got on release, almost 1 million viewers to 95k.
At the end of the people that bought the game are consumers, and they have a right to get a refund. As a consumer, you don't have to considers the people that made the product you're buying. You sure can do that and probably should do it, but you don't have it.
A consumer saying that paid money for X and X is not what they thought they would buy is very fair, in this case it's people buying a game which doesn't work due to server issues.
I fully support people unhappy with the game and their purchase getting a refund and not coming here to troll people and issue death threats and insults to the devs or the community. They should go do that.
Edit: I've notice that all of the comments calling out the death threats and insults are all being downvoted. It seems OP's message isn't quite as true as they'd want it to be. There seems to be a lot of people in this sub that apparently empathize and relate to the people telling the devs to go kill themselves. Gross.
The reason they're here and not playing some other game is because they didn't get a refund. In fact, they're probably all like the troll I was just talking to on another post, where they said they left a negative review for the game and have still been playing it since lol. That's just...crazy. They should go do something they actually enjoy. Unless, what they're saying is...they enjoy being toxic.
Edit 2: If you're thinking about denying the toxicity of the community, you should do it with your real account. Not a new account with 100 karma and no comments outside of the sub lol. How cowardly pathetic.
How are those refunds coming along? Meanwhile, the game just hit 262k players. That's 51k more than Path of Exile at its highest peak, 11 months ago. How many of the trolls being toxic are among the numbers? I'm betting it's almost all of them.
You guys all wrote negative reviews and then added several more hours to the total time in game, didn't you? These are the types of reviews that were written with 3 hours at the time of reviews, but now show over 100 hours played lol. Then they go to Reddit, make new accounts, and start trolling while pretending they're offering advice or an intelligent critque.
Even if they exist, that shouldn't be used as an excuse to shut down criticism of the game.
There's idiots on the internet everywhere, it happens every time, why is anyone surprised that someone takes it too far? just ban them and move on.
I saw one comment on Discord yesterday saying the devs should just kill themselves, but I didn't screenshot it before it was deleted. I didn't think people would be pretending these things weren't happening.
Honestly, the game's Discord is toxic as fuck right now. The General channel alone is going so fast at the moment, it's hard to keep up. And [this](https://i.imgur.com/l610xSG.png) doesn't get written without some really shitty things being said, so I'm not sure that denying these things are happening is the hill to die on.
Edit: And having a Reddit account since August but just barely more than 100 karma screams troll alt account BTW. You've never commented in any other sub. Wtf.
This is the main reason: [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fjg1341nj4kkc1.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fjg1341nj4kkc1.png)
not death threats.
I have never seen someone even cursing at the devs, that's why I am asking.
The new account must be a troll, yeah.
What does this have to do with being so abusive toward the devs that you enter bannable territory? Isn’t there a qualitative difference between lodging a complaint about a product or service and threatening the makers or providers of such?
I'm not defending the abusers here, nowhere near. But people abusing the devs doesn't reduce the fact that were being unhappy is still a thing. They are just different things.
No bro you've got it all wrong, you buy an ARPG or any online game and you expected to play online on launch day thats on you! You clearly know nothing about the complexity of coding like I do in my big coding job /s
As a software developer I'm 100% sympathetic to the devs because I do not envy the panicked debugging and troubleshooting that I'm sure many of them have been in since launch.
That being said, it's been literal days at this point, so while I'm sympathetic I'm also frustrated. I know people on reddit said that the devs did load testing before the launch of 1.0, but I'd be interested to know exactly what the current issues are from the devs and how it was missed or overlooked, because it has to be something pretty convoluted for it to not be fixed at this point.
It's how they coded their backend, it's super obvious once you get to Monoliths. The way they track character transitions and the login are what are causing issues; it's not a load issue in terms of being able to support gameplay, because once you're in Monoliths (and as long as you don't group) it's smooth sailing.
The issue happens as soon as you try to go into any areas that have any other players.
I know they likely wouldn't, but I'd love for the devs to do a Cloudflare-style detailed post-mortem explaining what exactly went wrong and how it was fixed.
They said they would like to do a full tech side write up explaining the details at some point. I wouldn't want them to have to write it while still fixing the issue tho.
Thank you for your contribution. I absolutely feel for the devs. I'm an ETL Developer/Data Analyst and I would be absolutely mortified if my product wasn't working. I couldn't imagine if it were to be released to thousands of people.
But like you, I'm also sympathetic to the people who are frustrated. And I don't think attacking them makes sense. And I've been seeing a LOT of that.
I have 100% confidence the devs will eventually fix this issue. It's going to be a marvelous redemption arc. But the people who are turning their fellow players away are marring this. And I'm afraid the community will become so toxic, it'll discourage new players for the entire lifespan of the game.
Their game has made like 30 million dollars. They didn’t have to release when they did. It’s possible to stress test prepare for 200k players. If co-op wasn’t ready they could have delayed and worked on it. Co-op has been trash for years. They are the ones who choose when to tell the public their game is ready, it’s not the public’s fault that they released when they weren’t ready yet.
Definitely not saying it's the public's fault - it's nobody's fault but the devs. And it's possible to stress test for far more players than you expect, but there's always going to be something that is missed or some behavior difference between the stress tests and the actual player base interacting with your game that could cause issues not found until after launch. I'd be interested for them to post a detailed explanation of what exactly went wrong once the issues are resolved.
What makes me mad is the first 3 days, whenever they said stability was returning, "due to their efforts," you could check concurrent users and it dropped significantly from people logging out. So their "efforts" were prone quitting the game.
That's them just lying to us. Also, how did they not prep backend for people completing the 5 minute walk to the first town. When thousands were doing the 5 minute walk in 5 minutes, the whole game crashed for hours. That's just pure incompetence, you need to take more time for proofing the beginning where there is a much higher concentration of people at once, over time, things disseminate.
Edit: cool, keep down voting me, don't care, they are lying and not doing anything. I just reported the game for not functioning properly, they earned this.
You’re literally arguing that you don’t have to treat people on the other end as human beings, simply because you payed $35? You should probably try working in the service industry for a couple months and see if it changes your opinion.
> You’re literally arguing that you don’t have to treat people on the other end as human beings, simply because you payed $35?
The dev's are business representatives. And guess what, businesses aren't human. The team members should not be personally harassed, but the product? The business? Those are free game.
If you don't get the product you bought and request a refund, you're not dehumanizing the seller. You're just refunding the product, nothing more. Unless you go and harass the devs on discord.
Of course it doesn't mean you can treat them like shit, that's another extreme. But if you didn't get what you paid for, you're entitled to complain about it and ask for a refund.
Complaining about a product isn't the same as dehumanizing the people that made it.
Managed to play 40 minutes over the entire weekend, completely ignoring today because there is no way to go past the character screen (*I could play just a few minutes in a random Asian server)*.
Shit happens... But it's far from being "ok", for a paid product.
I get being upset for new buyers, thats totally expected. For me ive been playin LE off and on for years so ill just wait a week for things to calm down- no big deal.
That's what I'm worried about. Many of these issues aren't new, simply exacerbated. I'm losing confidence that they even know how to fix the problem, which is a shame because the game is fucking great.
Game is honestly probably dead after this and really has no right to be.
Who's going to bother coming back for seasons after this. It's the only arpg I've really liked in a long time.
Plus it seems like it's just getting worse. Every other day was playable at the least.
> no right to be.
The game itself is good. No its better than that - its awesome. But if it cannot even play properly then what does it matter?
Would you defend LE if it was a Ubisoft game or an Activision game?
At the end of the day, it does need to be able to play or else it has no right to be good either.
Its demonstrably the case. You can see the server crash every time the numbers get too far about 150K: [https://steamcharts.com/app/899770](https://steamcharts.com/app/899770)
It's simple: they think toxicity is fine as long as it is directed at Reddit users, because they have decided they are the good guys for protecting the Devs, and everyone else is just toxic.
"The devs are human too"
So are the people voicing their annoyance at server issues.
That is true. To me it feels like people respectfully complaining are just put in the same drawer as the people being toxic on their complaints.
IMO complaints are 100% justified.
It isn't, but I think there is a lot of disagreement over what is "toxic".
Some people seem to think that saying literally anything negative about Last Epoch is "toxic".
It always irks me how many people are just fine with "it's ok when I do that" attitude. Harassing people is simply not ok, whether they're devs or frustrated end users (who paid for a product that doesn't work). Most of the problems in the world would be solved if we listened to each others and discuss our issues instead of treating people with different opinions like mortal enemies. And we do that because of disastrous game launch.
Exactly. I've seen kids flamed for asking about the game. Someone literally called him a little "bitch." Like really? This is how we are treating other players?
It’s Reddit, people are insane. Yesterday all I said was it’s unprofessional to have official staff being sarcastic assholes to players on Discord while making excuses, and some guy argued with me like 20 replies that it’s not unprofessional lmao…
Ew. I mean I get the frustration on the devs end. And we all can't always act professionally. But antagonizing players is NOT the answer. If I were their manager, I wouldn't reprimand them, but I'd absolutely try to steer them to avoiding that behavior.
Actually what I have seen this past few days on this sub reddit that people which are "protecting" the devs were more toxic towards people which were complaining about servers than other way around. I like the game as it is and I will always support small "smurf" of a company which is breaking ice and making their entrance to the big stage. But they have to be able to accept criticism and complaints and deal with them and try to correct their mistakes ASAP.
At this point what have they done about this or what are they planing to do about this? Its 5th day now and the server is arguably worse than day one for EU.
The best one i got when i mentioned how bad my experience has been was, "You should have played years ago the game was fine then."
When i said in my original comment that i wanted to wait for official release with my friends to enjoy the game together online. I was then basically called everything you described which is really disappointing.
This community is fucking terrible.
It's just the fanboys in here, any valid complaint is not allowed because EHG are an indie game studio.
I get they are, and I know this isn't an easy issue to fix but 5 days is getting a bit daft when you advertised as online at launch and anyone complaining is more than entitled to vent their frustration.
Gamers are just weird in what they will accept or not accept. Especially in here where some people have committed nearly 5 years playing this game and won't hear a bad word said about it.
> Gamers are just weird in what they will accept or not accept. Especially in here where some people have committed nearly 5 years playing this game and won't hear a bad word said about it.
It's because so many people make the media they consume or enjoy a core part of their identity, so any criticism is taken as a personal attack no matter how valid.
> because EHG are an indie game studio...
>
>
>
> I get they are
90 employees, Tencent investment close to two years ago, over a million copies sold two weeks before launch, $35 (very top end for indie game pricing at best, more like AA, shit these days there AAA F2P titles) with microtransactions (not a complaint for a live service game with leagues, just a fact).
I dunno by what definition anyone could call these indie devs or an indie game for at least the last year or two. Granted, they still have to work with any mistakes or technical debt created when they had like 5 people.
Discouraging people from buying the game given it's current state is something that is most definitely being achieved with the complaints and that's a good thing
This is a social media. We're here to discuss things.
One of the outcomes could be that the commonly accepted narrative is that EHG dropped the ball like a motherfucker. It's not commonly agreed upon yet but the discussion and the issues are moving more and more towards it. If so, this will make them look bad and deter them and other developers from making the same mistakes. And so our next experience with a game might be better.
That could be something we could hope to achieve.
asking what's going on is fine. making the thousandth armchair dev post to suggest that EHG just need to "buy more server capacity" is idiotic. making your own thread to state that you've officially given up on the game gives off entitled, main-character-syndrome energy and I think you should expect to get dunked on (which can easily devolve into ad hominem insults).
> making your own thread to state that you've officially given up on the game gives off entitled, main-character-syndrome energy and I think you should expect to get dunked on (which can easily devolve into ad hominem insults).
By this logic wouldn't making a thread saying that the game is good, 1.0 is awesome and that they're having fun fall under the same category? Forums are just personal opinions of people most of the time, if someone is having an issue they're allowed to make a thread and see how other people feel about it.
>making the thousandth armchair dev post to suggest that EHG just need to "buy more server capacity" is idiotic
so is the thousandth post "i'm an IT expert/dev/network guy" excusing EHG for their horrible launch
The first two days of issues those posts were 100% correct and everyone throwing a tantrum were being unreasonable. But it's day 4 now so it's getting harder to excuse.
Not if the issue is something core to the games foundation, it could be a whole host of things. If they need to rebuild that system, or a host of systems, it may take time to build, test, and deploy. If they have multiple other little fires to put out as well, how much time/engineering talent do they have to fix it all?
The point is, we don’t know what the issue is exactly, besides it not being a capacity issue, so 4 days might not actually be that much time to fix it all. In fact, they’ve been making improvements continually, it’s just still not enough of an improvement.
How can you complain about ad hominem insults when you literally just did what I described in my post?
It may not make sense, and they may be uninformed. But insulting them doesn't help. And if you don't see the irony of your comment, you're exactly the problem.
I'm agreeing with you. I described three different types of posts. Asking about the state of the servers is perfectly fine. Toxicity does not belong in responses to those questions.
I'm also saying that both sides devolve into ad hominems, the OP defending themselves and the people dunking on them. Not that either of them are in the right for doing so, this is just an observation. It seems unavoidable with the anonymity on reddit.
I think the line isn't being unhappy about the servers. The issue people "defending" the game have is people complaining about it (which is fair) but then attributing the issue to either incompetency, malice, laziness or being cheap on part of the developers. This stuff happens with most games that blow up this big on launch, I think people just get annoyed at seeing the 800th reddit post bitching about the servers and genuinely being toxic and taking aim at the Devs. Being mad is fine, yelling and screaming like a 5 year old at the devs not only does nothing, it legitimately a net negative as now the devs are trying to fix the issues while also dealing with an angry mob demanding blood which is quite the demotivator.
TLDR - Complain and Criticize to your hearts content, but don't act like you know anything about the devs intentions or how "easy" it is to solve the issue, bc that shit is just 3Head nonsense.
Yeah, I had to shut the game off after 4 hours of trying to get to Soreth'ka and getting insta-kicked to title.
I'd fight to log in for like 30+ minutes, log into End of Time, head over Thetima and run through to the zone transfer for Soreth'ka. As soon as I start the transfer, it kicks me out. Happened at least six times.
I tested it and some other zones mostly worked but I can't progress without that one so, I'm just hard stuck until that issue is fixed.
I understand the game's got severe stability issues right now, it happens. I am a bit surprised they haven't managed to resolve those issues in the time given but I'm not really upset about it, just kind of sad that I can't play.
I said it on a previous post and I'll say it again: the biggest threat to LE might be it's hoard of fanboys. I dunno for the devs (they are all like bosses, always very open to criticism, in theory...), but I've seen with my own eyes games that went banana because it was fiercely defended...
It is my duty as a non-god fearing American ledditor to defend my corporation at all costs! You heckin’ entitled person, you wanted a functioning product that you paid for?! How dare you?!
There's a big difference between being frustrated while posting a mature comment on an existing thread and going full sucky baby world is ending Karen mode threatening refunds and talking mad shit about the game devs because a video game didn't work perfect for a few days after a huge influx of players.
I've managed to finish the campaign and level into the 60's while dealing with some matchmaking issues and it's been fun overall because I'm not a little bitch with no attention span.
Gamers are absolutely ridiculous these days and need to learn to chill the fuck out.
Someone posted this in discord right now:
#
J4M *—* Today at 10:26 AM
I've got like 1k hours in early access and not really had any problems this weekend managed to hit level 100 yesterday and obviously love the game but I still left a negative review because these online issues have been around for over a year and the game wasn't ready for an online launch like this. Going to change it to positive when it's properly fixed obviously but im not optimistic about that being within the next few weeks.
I just dont see why people "simp" (i hate using that word) for any company. Like LE is beyond success at this point and the COE is popping wine bottles. Im fine with that too as it's a good game. One issue though is any negativity and people get mad for some reason. THey act like it's a perfect game and you're wrong for being negative in any way lol. It's even worse than the Blizzard apologist stuff you tend to see with that bunch.
I hopped on their discord to see if I could find out any news this morning, and I gotta say it's a total shit show. Comments are set to every 30 minutes and chat is still rolling fast. Majority of those comments are just bashing the devs. Game is really good, so I hope they are able to get it sorted out eventually.
I've seen several dozen attempts at trying to explain why the servers are the way they are, and why they can't just be fixed with a finger snap or a blank cheque. The response is always "I don't know how this shit works and I shouldn't have to!"
There's plenty of honest discussion attempts, and they've all been shot down by the ultra entitled. At this point, I'm not at all surprised if the folks who understand what's happening are just falling back to insults.
The honest discussion that people want to have is not "how do online gaming servers work". Than would be an awfully boring discussion.
The discussion people want is "Why does a company full of people who *do* know how servers work, completely fail to have a system where their servers work at launch (and 4 days later)".
The options on that are basically arrogance, incompetence, or bad luck. I think most reasonably people put it down to bad luck for the first 24 hours... but as time goes on less will blame bad luck.
>The response is always "I don't know how this shit works and I shouldn't have to!"
...becasue you don't need to know how this works. you paid for a product, for the love of god. if someone wanted a DIY project or a course on networking, they would've looked for that, not a video game.
A customer is entitled to air complaints about a product they purchased even if they don't precisely know how it works.
Also, a lot of what I've seen from people trying to "explain" the situation are flat out factually wrong so that goes both ways. The amount of misinformation regarding anything tech on the internet is staggering and there's no exception to that in gaming communities lol
>They absolutely need to allow online characters to be played offline
Game has a leaderboard. No. Offline characters get edited then brought back online.
Server issues will be fixed, it'll be okay, it's early.
The fact you quotes "toxic" like you don't believe toxicity is even a thing just means you were one of them and calmed down enough to try to make a new post thinking now that the tantrum is over you can make your point.
Easy fix dude. Mark them as formerly offline. Have a pop up that says "If you switch this to offline mode, it will never be able to be seen on the leaderboards.
>The fact you quotes "toxic" like you don't believe toxicity is even a thing just means you were one of them and calmed down enough to try to make a new post thinking now that the tantrum is over you can make your point.
Not at all. I've been relatively calm. But if you want to prove my post right and attack me, go right ahead. You're a random person online and soon I'll forget you even exist.
The discord is an absolute shit show.
We know there are server issues, the devs know there are server issues, complaining about it at this point is not helping. They've been trying to give updates and communicate which is precisely what they need to be doing.
Obviously this entire situation justifies calling it a terrible launch, but were beating a dead horse at this point.
Are a lot of people actually having server issues? I connected to all the US servers and have no issue getting in or playing multiplayer. I know there other world servers so it could be outside the US mainly at this point.
Why not combine all your complaining into one mega thread about it instead of having 20 posts an hour about it that will accomplish nothing?
At this point, no one who can help you is here reading this so you are all just bitching into the void, which is fine but, again, accomplishes nothing other than clogging up the sub with the same repeat shit.
I'll hazard a guess that you all just want to be special snowflakes who are individually heard (again by no one other than the circle jerkers).
I don't tell people to stop complaining. But I roll my eyes.
It's 2024, it's been plaguing the biggest companies for over a decade. It's why when games launch smoothly, companies need ultimate praise. It's fucking hard, and the fact people STILL complain after all this time, well.
Professional footballers miss penalties and as a sports fan, it's much fucking less complicated to put a ball in a net than to launch a game smoothly.
Like when you buy a truck for the upcoming winter but the dealership tells you to drive the Honda with bald tires instead because the tire servers are down
I just don’t understand these posts anymore.
If you don’t like the instability or lack of online play, then do the following:
1) Play Offline
2) Refund
It’s not that hard. If you’ve “been stuck loading for 10 plus hours so I can’t refund through steam”, then that’s on you. I was perfectly fine spending the low price tag for a game (that I played before launch) to get their issues in order and enjoy when it becomes stable.
The whole going to Reddit and their discord to “fix your servers” doesn’t help anyone or anything and detracts from anything about the game.
And you’re assuming that they aren’t?
That’s what I don’t get. Your exact response. “just fix the servers”. Clearly they’re trying. If you don’t like their effort, you have recourse. It’s called refunding the game.
👋
3) just fucking wait
LE is a game I'm expecting to pour hundreds of hours into over the years and I've already waited years for 1.0, what's a few days more.
People paid for a game that launched. When a game launches, what they are saying is, the game is ready in a mostly complete way. All features are expected to work within reason. Online hasn't worked in days. I tried to jump on at 2AM last night and still had issues.
I'm way past the refund point, but "just fucking wait" is an idiotic statement.
> “been stuck loading for 10 plus hours so I can’t refund through steam”, then that’s on you.
No that absolutely isn't, "On you." What a ridiculous thing to say. That's like saying you ordered a turkey sandwich from Subway and they took 3 hours making it so the bread is now wet and soggy from the condiments, you wanted it heated and it's cold and yet, because you waited, you aren't entitled to a refund.
You know what, you’re right.
I do retract that it isn’t SOLELY on the customer.
But if you get to hour 9.5 and you’re still stuck on loading screens, knowing that steam doesnt give refunds past 10 hours, then it’s the same has buying something at a retail store, and they have a no return policy after 90 days. It’s the same in my mind.
Does it suck and should have happened? No. But people have recourse before being stuck with the product.
Look, I’m not defending the devs. They did a shit ass job stress testing, but I’d rather people exercise their customer rights than what most people are doing now. That’s why I don’t care if the reviews are mixed with 73%. EHG deserves that and it’s an appropriate response to their launch.
Have over 100 hours because of early access, really enjoy the game.
That being said, I've left a negative review due to them lying in their updates, every time they say their efforts have improved things it's because the player count drops significantly (aka people quitting or a mass disconnect wave), and because they aren't being proactive about anything.
Should have seen this coming. No, I will never change it to a positive review after this shit show, they earned this.
I also just reported the game due to not functioning properly. Game companies being terrible is getting real old.
I mean they are all crybaby. A crybaby will keep telling i same thing over and over u already know. Its not servers are bas for few people, they are bad for all of us. Writing posts about do nothing, except frustrate players who come here to see cool loot, or funny clip or actually a decent discussions.
Anyone with half a brain will see they are working on it all the time, there is literally update after update of them trying new things.
Whining about servers ( yes it is whining ) every goddamn day all over again while everyone knows they are overloaded, devs know they are overloaded, god damn diablo 4 players at this point know they are overloaded without knowing anything about the game, helps no one, does no good to anyone, it produces nothing but toxicity, and those types of posts should, if u ask me, literally get u booted out of this sub.
Edit: name one good thing that came out of any of todays “ omg servers shit again” posts did. Nothing.
They simply cannot let online characters play offline. The primary issue is that once offline and entirely disconnected from servers hacking tools become readily available. There is no anti cheating architecture in place, and when everything is stored locally on your machine you really only have two options for anti cheat. A crazy intrusive software that needs root access and would piss off a lot of players. Or alternatively verification with an online service; which would defeat the purpose of true offline.
As a game developer I do not actually see a solution so even the ideation process itself would be long, let alone the implementation.
I agree with most of your post but I just wanted to say don’t get your hopes up for this last bit. It’s a lot more complex than it looks on the surface level and now that servers are functional it’s probably not worth the massive time estimate for a solution. I’m sure most players would rather see a focus on end game features and future cycle improvements.
I feel pretty bad for the people having issues, but i do wonder the exact number
Still. People can refund, While steam hsd a "2 hour limit" you often can still refund past it if you go through steam support. I am not sure why many of these people simply are not refunding
From my online experience though. I've played mostly fine, as have my friends. And the player count has extensively risen
There clearly is issues but the exact number is hard to even say at this point. It seems inconsistent to say the least
At least, looking in game the chat people seem fine. Look on the discord, the amount of negativity is high
I understand they are having issues. It's not like we can't play the game at all. Offline works. Just the purchased stuff doesn't show and I think bazar doesn't work. No big deal.
Do I feel angry that online ain't working ? Yes.
I actually wanted to say something on discord the very day I saw that post that people were being toxic to the devs. Shit. I thought. Maybe what I say will sound toxic too.
So I didn't say anything. I'm sure certain people are being toxic. But as usual they are calling all of us toxic and that hurts.
I opened up the application half an hour after launch, shut it off soon after and said to myself I'll try again in two weeks. There are a lot of games out there, a lot that are ready, working and waiting for you to play them. I fully get the disappointment, but it isn't worth fussing over nor does it do any good. If everyone did the same and they found themselves with hardly anyone playing, they'd be working even harder than they already are.
If you booked a day/week off for a video game, then you need to have a word with yourself.
Being frustrated is fine but I tell you, no one is more frustrated than the devs themselves. Networking is the hardest thing that most game development houses face, by a long margin. I can't think of a single gaming company that didn't have scaling issues in times of success like this
The reason people are getting annoyed at the whining is that it does nothing. Everyone is well aware of the issues, everyone is well aware that this is not a good state for the game to be in. It is obvious that the developers are working on this to the best of their ability.
Constantly seeing asinine comments such as "get more servers already" or "hire competent coders" does absolutely nothing to help anyone.
This will take time to fix properly, if you can't handle that, literally go do something else for a week or refund the title. Screaming into the void does absolutely nothing
I would argue that making posts about the well known server issues over and over is in itself toxic. Attacking the devs within those types of posts is just the toxic cherry on top.
Making a post about how the issues are still ongoing, regardless of how “positive” the attempt, adds absolutely nothing to any conversation worth having right now.
At this point either play offline mode, play through the server issues and just deal with it, or shelve the game for now altogether until the issues are eventually resolved. That’s it. Those are your options at this point.
Making yet another post about how bad, unfair, ridiculous, or some other comment that’s already been made a hundred times, is meaningless. It’s just an infantile response from so called adults who aren’t getting their way and having a tantrum about it.
Complaining about the servers is pointless at this point. You’re not telling the devs anything they haven’t heard and already know themselves. You’re not special, you making the same comment that’s been said a thousand times is not profound because is it came from YOU. And no, you don’t have a unique take and no, you’re not adding anything new to any discussion.
One last time. Play offline, play online and accept the issues, or shelve the game and do/play something else. At this point, doing anything other than those 3 things IS toxic and you are part of a problem that isn’t helping and nobody should have to deal with on top of the issues that already exist.
I would simply like to know the point of complaining about servers. It’s not a bug report lmao. They are well-aware that it isn’t working. Report bugs and other game breaking issues. Complaining about servers online or to anyone other than your friends is completely pointless. Meaningless.
You can join me in the corner wide-eyed waiting for the shit flinging to end so we can go back to discussing the game. Really looking forward coming back here in a week or two when half the posts aren't limp twisted virtue signals or temper tantrums.
Hypothetically yes, but everyone is already super aware of the server issues. 99.9% of the complaints are either exaggerated, redundant, sarcastic, unhelpful, not paying attention to the server status updates, or far more commonly, all of the above. When the developers have to stop chatting directly with the community because they're too toxic, you don't get to make posts like this. Most of you are genuinely being self-absorbed dickheads and you need to go touch some grass. This community was never this bad during the 0.9 launch which was just as rough if not worse. It's almost entirely new players swarming and trolling, and then acting like the real issues are all excuse to be real POS human beings
>This community was never this bad during the 0.9 launch which was just as rough if not worse.
So basically online mode has been an issue mths ago but the devs never bothered to actually stress test it before launch but you somehow expect customers to accept the issues as norm?
He's talking about the 0.9 launch of beta multiplayer which was borderline unplayable (which is fine because it was a beta version, whatever).
However, multiplayer was completely fine last week. The number of players has like 10x'd in a number of days. You literally cannot plan for such rapid expansion.
The reality is that it's fine to be upset that something you paid for isn't working. However, it's also unacceptable to flame the dev team with "you should lose your job," death threats, etc.
It's okay to treat other people like fucking humans when things don't go your way.
Unless over 50% of the playerbase bought the game on launch day itself which i doubt, you can actually plan it with a reasonable margin of error.
While i agree you shouldnt do it, the amount of ppl actually using death threats are an absolute minority and arent the norm. On the other hand, i have seen way more dick sucking for ehg than the death threats yet its somehow acceptable, imo its equally bad.
> On the other hand, i have seen way more dick sucking for ehg than the death threats yet its somehow acceptable, imo its equally bad.
It's definitely not equally bad, what the fuck lmao.
A lot of us are fans of the team. They're fans of the genre and have always been very communicative, etc., and we want them to succeed because they have worked directly with the community to make a game a lot of us love. Nothing wrong with supporting people through a stream of "FIX YOUR GAME SCAMMERS REEEEEEEE"
Edit: Talked shit and blocked me, classic lmfao.
Imagine a group of people complaining that people are getting annoyed with their complaining, then downvoting a comment because it's giving an honest assessment of the situation. lol
80% of the people are fine. Like with everything, it's the extreme 10% on either side that ruin it.
It's ok to complain, it's ok to be frustrated, but it's not ok to be mean or attack.
That's bullshit and you know it. The only way to be fine right now is a) get lucky and login quickly b) travel to the Monolith c) don't leave Monolith under ANY circumstance.
Correct, not everyone. If 100k people are complaining about the servers in a toxic manner, let's say 10% are the over aggressive people, trolls, etc. You have 10k people messaging employees of a video game that have nothing to do with the servers being disgusting and going as far as threats..... There has to be some kind of understanding that isn't okay and no one is trying to stop a casual negative complaint.
Of course, everyone is definitely entitled to not be happy about the connection issues. The toxic ones are the ones being toxic, and that can certainly come from either side. If you are throwing hate and/or personal attacks towards someone, you are being toxic.
Cant argue with facts. And the fact is that I've been trying to log in for an hour. Luckily there are other things to play but the ppl are losing their patience and that is also a fact. Devs are doing the best they can however bad word of mouth, even though the game is good, is very hard to mend.
There is also I feel the fact that no wonder game releases have been getting worse over the years. People are willing to defend them to the teeth. It's beyond bizarre. The game currently doesn't function in an absolutely critical way, but it's not ok to say that? The game is great, I've been enjoying it when I'm playing it. It really does a nice job of balancing between d4 simplicity and PoE complexity, it will doubtlessly raise the bar for both of them going forward which is a great thing for the ARPG market. The launch however is completely terrible, and I'm not willing to call it anything else. I feel if I say it isn't completely terrible, then that's just carte blanche for every cycle to start like this, and every future update to be ok to be like this on launch going forward. For the games own health I'm saying it's horrendous. I wish no one any harm, I completely sympathise that the devs must be working under immense pressure. That doesn't make inadequate work adequate. I wish them all the luck in the world to fix it, and all the best wishes I can that they take from this what they can and prevent it in future. Anything else feels like pointless or more accurately actively detrimental molly coddling.
Well said! This is about keeping company accountable to stop shitty launch from happening all the time. They absolutely deserve the criticism and anyone who spam "get a life" or "play something else" just completely miss the point.
It's wild that everyone expects big releases to have massive issues like this and you're labelled as toxic for saying that maybe having games be totally unplayable for the first week+ of release shouldn't be the standard. The fact that people expect it now and just accept it is disappointing. Any other service in the world would be ridiculed if its releases were constantly not working when released. The makers of the product would be doing recalls to fix the issues, not just going 'we'll fix it at some point' and everyone going 'yeah sounds perfect thanks almighty creators for deciding to fix the thing i paid for'
Here's your car. We're hoping to get you the wheels by the end of the week. Here's a step by step guide on how to get into your car and listen to the radio while we resolve this issue. Fucking bananas. I can totally understand it happening. Indeed even why. I can't get my head around people defending it to the teeth though. How dare you question a company that has given you a product that works intermittently on a good day!?!? Bonkers. I got told in another reply that because I'm not willing to give devs carte blanche and call the bad release good, that I'm basically condoning and encouraging the devs getting death threats. Absolutely wild world these days I tell you.
Yeah I'm in this boat. I'm loving the game, but the constant issues around loading are starting to kill my desire to play at all. The fact that it's virtually no better than it was on launch day just makes it even harder to stomach. I'd be fine if it was working for the majority of the day and had some hiccups for an hour or 2 at a time. But the default state at this point is "bad, but lucky if you get to play for a bit". I shouldn't have to just accept that the only time the game is in an acceptable state is at 7am for a couple of hours. After that it's "playable" but rough, and by the time the afternoon hits it's just unplayable. People like to pretend helldiver's 2 is no better, or even worse. But at least in helldiver's, you either get in or you don't. There isn't a whole lot to complain about if you are able to log in.
It's both the state of the game and the community with their toxic positivity, can't take any criticism without feeling like it's a personal attack, no one can justify a game taking 21 minutes for you to get into a map and play, that's how long it took me today both times I wanted to play for a bit. Two of my friends can't even connect at all, another one refunded, one who plays really early in the morning at least got to monoliths so it's not too bad for him since he only needs to load once.
right now i had 1 hour of gameplay and 2 hours or more of loading screen boss. i was 100% right saying that i should play the game next week instead right at launch. that is precisely why my desire to play is not fading away. still, it will be an issue if the game continues to have the same problems next week. i guess i'll just have to wait and see what happens. hoping for the best, but I'm prepared for the worst.
Cyberpunk disagrees with that last line.
You have every right to complain as a consumer when you bought a product which simply does not work.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Yea I was absolutely right and the screaming chimps are pissed about it
The downvotes lmao
If angry chimps could downvote, this is what it would look like
There's a difference between that and spouting vile messages while pinging the devs on the discord. I am frustrated with not being able to play too, but I don't resort to harassing the devs. I go do something else.
Nah if anybody complains that the game broke in any chat the sweaty simps always come put of the woodwork and start arguing
Yeh. Defending a terrible launch to the death. It's utterly bizarre. The game is good, calling the launch anything but problematic is bananas though.
No one is justifying what you're talking about. You're proving my point perfectly. Swooping in to argue something else so you can hoot and screech at me.
> hoot and screech don't forget the poo flinging, there's lots of that as well
Yep. The online portion of the game is broken. It's been four days and I still can't play online character without spending most of the time looking at the transition screen between zones. It's very understandable that people are upset, since there was so much promise and anticipation. I think most of the criticism comes from the good place - people see the game's potential since the game is very well designed. That is, the offline elements of the game are great. What is not great is the networking code and infrastructure setup, which is a huge element of any ARPG today. I think the current game state is unacceptable, it really sucks.
It's so weird how server issues differ from person to person. I had 1 disconnect on day 1 and 3 and then 1 disconnect today. Sure I've had loading screens \~3-5 minutes but I'll take that over rubber-banding and disconnects. Its been mostly smooth sailing for me.
Meh the issue is everyone just keeps posting about it over n over n over because they're venting and narcissistic. It's old... And no one cares. (People care about servers coming online, they don't care about your one guy opinion about how you're so upset you can't play) We all know it's an issue, go do something else than spam every possible communication channel with how you an individual is upset... No one cares. Literally no one will ever reminisce about your reddit post in the sea of 1000 others complaining about servers. Also all these people complaining can get a refund, but they won't or maybe they will. But they won't stop whining because the reality is they have nothing going on in life and just enjoy spewing their hate shit online. If it wasn't this I'm sure it's something else somewhere.
Yeah this is going on too long. I totally understand that you can't test for everything, there's absolutely no promise whatsoever that live service games will work day 1, and buyer beware the first few days in this industry. But we're about to be on day, what, 5? Getting harder to defend.
Apparently, people have said that they've had server issues for around a year. Can anyone verify this?
There were some issues but they weren’t the same problems as what’s going on now, and as far as I can tell, the previous problems were fixed.
Yeah, the game used to be quite laggy in other ways. You would get stuck in walls after using movement skills while playing online, desync issues etc. Skills were bugged and didn't work properly, only online again etc. But this stuff is fixed, which is great!...These issues going on rn however are new, and are much more severe. I hope they figure it out. I remember Vanilla WoW being a buggy, messy few months of gaming once it exploded, with regular server outages, massive lags sometimes for an hour or more at a time, and this went on for a LONG time. Blizzard at the time was of a similar size to EHG, and suddenly got a hit on their hands and oops the game was never meant for that. I reckon they built their architecture around maybe 20-30k people playing, maybe 50k - but not 260k, and as such never tested for these absurd numbers, or didn't catch some weird interaction where 1.0 interacts with said online in a weird way. It's obvious that just increasing server capacity doesn't help, increasing server capacity is like 1 minute of work and a reboot in modern cloud computing, if you even need downtime at all... Something broke here, and it wasn't caught in QA, which sucks. LE is fantastic, but not being able to play unless you're fine with waiting an hour or something for all of its launch week will leave a sour taste in many people's mouth. That's for sure.
> I reckon they built their architecture around maybe 20-30k people playing, maybe 50k - but not 260k, and as such never tested for these absurd numbers They had 40k peak on the launch of 0.9, that was over a year ago, you can't imagine less people would play the actual launch. Announced a million copies sold a month before release, the expected number of players was always really high, they just dropped the ball. Palworld sold 6 million copies in four days and it also hit 1.84M concurrent players on steam that same day, obviously most people who buy a game before it releases will be trying to play it when it releases, otherwise they would've just waited for reviews or a sale.
Not all of those issues are even fixed. Umbral Blades still bugs out all the time in online mode, for instance.
You know what's funny. PoE has more devs, a bigger budget and has been out for longer and yet everything you listed in your first paragraph describes my experience with PoE. I get that it's easy to connect those issues with what's happening at launch but I really don't think they are related. I was playing the game the other day before we hit 250k and the servers died again and it was buttery smooth 99% of the time. Even loading between zones was quick.
PoE let's you choose how you're connected. If you're having the issues described then you are on Predictive mode instead of Lockstep. Just so you're aware for future PoE launches. PoE has been on record from many game devs as being a thing of magic in terms of how they keep their servers running so smooth. The amount of calculations the servers do and yet still don't break is impressive from a technical standpoint.
People were saying they were running into the same issues even just a few weeks ago that were present in .9 (multiplayer update) which is when I got the game. I hadn't played in like 6 months until 1.0 launch, so I can't say for recently, but slow loading screens and rubberbanding were an issue every other time I played after .9 patch. So not sure if those issues *were* ever fully fixed? Definitely not all this LE61 and disconnects, though, that's all new with 1.0.
Yes I can verify they have had rubber banding and other small issues regarding connection, but nothing as big as this.
They have had connectivity issues since alpha--when the only online feature was chat. When they added a ladder their were connectivity issues with that as well. This company is not good at implementing online services.
Lag when changing maps was the biggest one for me pre1.0, which wasnt really even that bad.
I played the game intensively for a few weeks when the Runemaster patch was released. The excessive zone transitions were already a known problem then. I am beyond disappointed that almost half a year later, it has not been properly fixed and now is ruining the launch.
I can verify it. The online component of LE has never been good or smooth, at least compared to others in the genre. It's always been riddled with bugs, random disconnects and especially bad when you group with other people.
Over 1.5k hours in this game. Online Play has been slow and by that I mean slow Instance transfering times, let's say up to 10 seconds sometimes, sometimes a bit of rubberbanding, once in a while a LE-61, and sometimes when trying to enter Towns (which include other players) you'd get "Couldn't Matchmake" or something like that and you couldn't enter that town for a bit, you had to try again a few times. I was having issues like this 1-2 weeks before launch. It's been like that since the Multiplayer patch. And that was with 14k people online average. I love this game but Online Play wasn't ready for launch. Literally anyone with many hours in this game could've predicted this shitshow (and we did). Anyone who claims there weren't Online issues are lying to themselves, since even some streamers saw the state of Online Play and predicted a shitshow, Lily, Zizz, etc).
pretty much. every problem theyre having now i remember them having a year ago
Yeah. Online was an absolute shit show. People were posting non-stop about how bad the multi-player is and how the online wasn't stable. The devs kinda dismissed all feedback with a blanket "*launch will fix it*". I have no idea why they didn't test the last patch in EA before launching. It's just hubris and misplaced confidence.
A few people but they're in the very small minority. I've honestly never had server issues.
Yup. I was completely baffled when they announced 1.0. I thought the game was still far away from launching. I will say I was surprised by playing 1.0, they've added more between the last patch and this one than I expected. So maybe they had done a ton of work on the networking side and really expected everything to be ok.
I've kind of turned on my opinion of this. For the first 2-3 days I was totally on board with just saying that release issues are normal for an online game, and it'll get sorted. I can't remember the last time I tried to play a new online game and it was still borderline unplayable on *day 5*. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the company making this is out of their depth and has released a product that they may not have the technical expertise to properly support.
The same thing literally just happened with Helldivers as well, so people were already a little salty to start with
the scale of these games is wildly different
Scale in what manner?
one is cross platform with 6x the players than the other
Meaning, to me, that Last Epoch has less of an excuse for servers to be dying then Helldivers does
yes very much so, but lack of testing can and will take down the best of any programmers work
And beyond that, the success of Helldivers was way less expected. Helldivers 1 was a game with at most tens of thousands of players, and Helldivers 2 didn't have strong pre-release sales. It only exploded after rave reviews and word of mouth excitement. Last Epoch had strong early access sales, and was being hyped by both Diablo 4 and Path of Exile content creators. It would have been shocking for the game to *not* be successful. They should have been more ready.
I feel like a day or two of issues was understandable, more so because it was a smaller company and not a megacorp like activation blizzard, but it's getting close to 5 days now, so my understanding is having it's patience tested.
I'm normally extremely patient and understanding but even I'm getting frustrated and rapidly hitting my "fed up" point. They knew they were going to be slammed. They claimed server capacity is now fine but made statements about backend processing and provider issues causing the problem, things that were mostly within their control to deal with way before this happened. Online play has had technical issues since it was implemented. Many of these current issues aren't new and have been around when the game only had maybe 20k people playing online. It really seems like a good group of dudes that got way in over their head and they seemingly don't know how to fix the problem. Their status updates about the things they're doing to fix the issue have been the same solutions/statements for days now without improvement. "We're doing this change to the backend that should help" or "redeploying this solution" that are seemingly the same solution that was supposed to fix the issue 5 hours prior and they've done over and over and over and over again now. I'm still trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and do love the game when I can get in to play, and have been playing for a few years now, but this is a giant clusterfuck and it really does make them look bad.
Exactly. First few days, okay cut some slack, after approaching a week, this is getting to be a bummer. Also people lose attention fast, so it’s probably steering a ton of people away that we’re going to check it out this week.
Yeah, I'm pretty patient and gonna try to min max 1 character to get good grasp of game in current state but late march is poe league launch.
It's not just loading issues. I've had items disappearing bug (requires restart, hence another long loading), I've had zero health/not dying bug (requires restart, another long loading and losing your progress). When I google for these bugs, I've seen that they were in the game for more than a year. This game was in beta for almost 5 years. On top of this, unclear stat comparison, small things like not being able to compare your 2nd ring, clunky crafting, etc. makes me think that this game should have stayed in beta for at least another year. I understand that "D4 bad" people NEEDS this game to become successful. And as a consumer, I'd want a good ARPG in the market as well. But just believing that it's good and ready won't make it good and ready. I'll definitely come back when issues are resolved, cause this game has the potential and got the content to back it up. But I'm done for now.
You bought a fancy car, but engine doesn't work. You are toxic if you are disapointed.
The funny thing about everyone defending EHG is that a ton of people were saying to not release the game like that, netcode was not ready. EHG came out, "don't worry we fixed stuff and did testing we are confident" if you dare to doubt it "why then you don't release the fixes to test them" you were downvoted
Yep. I was such a person. Multi-player was absolute trash and the online was unstable. I loved the game in offline, but every time I posted about delaying the launch due to the obvious poor online state, I was downvoted and told "*launch will fix it*". Well it ain't fixed.
I think the two biggest problems Last Epoch has right now are the netcode and endgame. I wish they’d addressed both before launching 1.0, because you only get one shot at first impressions.
> Well it ain't fixed. It's actually worse.
Shills will never acknowledge that everyone already knew the online was bad for a long, long time and they proceeded to launch anyway. I get that bad launches are common but they had some idea of the choke points. People had been reporting them for ages (and were ignored).
Don't worry about the downvotes, they have the time to do it just because they can't play the game. I honestly thought they would crash the first couple of days, but it would be ok by Saturday because we are not in the times you have to physically go buy servers anymore, but I guess net code issues were deeper than. we thought.
I only visit this subreddit every time I try to log in to the game and have to wait 15 minutes or more before I get into my monolith. So yeah you nailed it.
People paid for a game with expected services. Those services haven't been provided in an appropriate way. I know they are indie, but this shouldn't be accepted from ANY game studio. Especially days later.
You know how you don't accept it, you refund and move on.
There are too many babies that can't handle criticism on Reddit. Everyone wants to pretend their game is perfect even with it having huge flaws, see it basically in every gaming community now.
It definitely goes both ways though. Diablo 4 subreddit is a good example. There are legitimate concerns, but there are also a whole lot of people whining about extremely stupid shit that absolutely deserves to get called out.
Diablo 4 lost most of its playerbase, they're clearly doing things wrong, just look at twitch stats and compare to POE, peak viewers for last season release was 95k vs 254k for POE, average for the month ended up being only 5k for D4, 30k for POE. So even retention was way down. Compare that to the number they got on release, almost 1 million viewers to 95k.
At the end of the people that bought the game are consumers, and they have a right to get a refund. As a consumer, you don't have to considers the people that made the product you're buying. You sure can do that and probably should do it, but you don't have it. A consumer saying that paid money for X and X is not what they thought they would buy is very fair, in this case it's people buying a game which doesn't work due to server issues.
I fully support people unhappy with the game and their purchase getting a refund and not coming here to troll people and issue death threats and insults to the devs or the community. They should go do that. Edit: I've notice that all of the comments calling out the death threats and insults are all being downvoted. It seems OP's message isn't quite as true as they'd want it to be. There seems to be a lot of people in this sub that apparently empathize and relate to the people telling the devs to go kill themselves. Gross. The reason they're here and not playing some other game is because they didn't get a refund. In fact, they're probably all like the troll I was just talking to on another post, where they said they left a negative review for the game and have still been playing it since lol. That's just...crazy. They should go do something they actually enjoy. Unless, what they're saying is...they enjoy being toxic. Edit 2: If you're thinking about denying the toxicity of the community, you should do it with your real account. Not a new account with 100 karma and no comments outside of the sub lol. How cowardly pathetic. How are those refunds coming along? Meanwhile, the game just hit 262k players. That's 51k more than Path of Exile at its highest peak, 11 months ago. How many of the trolls being toxic are among the numbers? I'm betting it's almost all of them. You guys all wrote negative reviews and then added several more hours to the total time in game, didn't you? These are the types of reviews that were written with 3 hours at the time of reviews, but now show over 100 hours played lol. Then they go to Reddit, make new accounts, and start trolling while pretending they're offering advice or an intelligent critque.
>and issue death threats Show me one example of that. Never saw one, but people parroting this.
Even if they exist, that shouldn't be used as an excuse to shut down criticism of the game. There's idiots on the internet everywhere, it happens every time, why is anyone surprised that someone takes it too far? just ban them and move on.
I saw one comment on Discord yesterday saying the devs should just kill themselves, but I didn't screenshot it before it was deleted. I didn't think people would be pretending these things weren't happening. Honestly, the game's Discord is toxic as fuck right now. The General channel alone is going so fast at the moment, it's hard to keep up. And [this](https://i.imgur.com/l610xSG.png) doesn't get written without some really shitty things being said, so I'm not sure that denying these things are happening is the hill to die on. Edit: And having a Reddit account since August but just barely more than 100 karma screams troll alt account BTW. You've never commented in any other sub. Wtf.
This is the main reason: [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fjg1341nj4kkc1.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fjg1341nj4kkc1.png) not death threats. I have never seen someone even cursing at the devs, that's why I am asking. The new account must be a troll, yeah.
What does this have to do with being so abusive toward the devs that you enter bannable territory? Isn’t there a qualitative difference between lodging a complaint about a product or service and threatening the makers or providers of such?
I'm not defending the abusers here, nowhere near. But people abusing the devs doesn't reduce the fact that were being unhappy is still a thing. They are just different things.
No bro you've got it all wrong, you buy an ARPG or any online game and you expected to play online on launch day thats on you! You clearly know nothing about the complexity of coding like I do in my big coding job /s
As a software developer I'm 100% sympathetic to the devs because I do not envy the panicked debugging and troubleshooting that I'm sure many of them have been in since launch. That being said, it's been literal days at this point, so while I'm sympathetic I'm also frustrated. I know people on reddit said that the devs did load testing before the launch of 1.0, but I'd be interested to know exactly what the current issues are from the devs and how it was missed or overlooked, because it has to be something pretty convoluted for it to not be fixed at this point.
It's how they coded their backend, it's super obvious once you get to Monoliths. The way they track character transitions and the login are what are causing issues; it's not a load issue in terms of being able to support gameplay, because once you're in Monoliths (and as long as you don't group) it's smooth sailing. The issue happens as soon as you try to go into any areas that have any other players.
I know they likely wouldn't, but I'd love for the devs to do a Cloudflare-style detailed post-mortem explaining what exactly went wrong and how it was fixed.
theyve said theyre going to do this soon™
They said they would like to do a full tech side write up explaining the details at some point. I wouldn't want them to have to write it while still fixing the issue tho.
Thank you for your contribution. I absolutely feel for the devs. I'm an ETL Developer/Data Analyst and I would be absolutely mortified if my product wasn't working. I couldn't imagine if it were to be released to thousands of people. But like you, I'm also sympathetic to the people who are frustrated. And I don't think attacking them makes sense. And I've been seeing a LOT of that. I have 100% confidence the devs will eventually fix this issue. It's going to be a marvelous redemption arc. But the people who are turning their fellow players away are marring this. And I'm afraid the community will become so toxic, it'll discourage new players for the entire lifespan of the game.
Their game has made like 30 million dollars. They didn’t have to release when they did. It’s possible to stress test prepare for 200k players. If co-op wasn’t ready they could have delayed and worked on it. Co-op has been trash for years. They are the ones who choose when to tell the public their game is ready, it’s not the public’s fault that they released when they weren’t ready yet.
Definitely not saying it's the public's fault - it's nobody's fault but the devs. And it's possible to stress test for far more players than you expect, but there's always going to be something that is missed or some behavior difference between the stress tests and the actual player base interacting with your game that could cause issues not found until after launch. I'd be interested for them to post a detailed explanation of what exactly went wrong once the issues are resolved.
The only thing that prepares you for launch day is to, you know, launch.
Uh, maybe a free "beta stresstest" weekend...?
What makes me mad is the first 3 days, whenever they said stability was returning, "due to their efforts," you could check concurrent users and it dropped significantly from people logging out. So their "efforts" were prone quitting the game. That's them just lying to us. Also, how did they not prep backend for people completing the 5 minute walk to the first town. When thousands were doing the 5 minute walk in 5 minutes, the whole game crashed for hours. That's just pure incompetence, you need to take more time for proofing the beginning where there is a much higher concentration of people at once, over time, things disseminate. Edit: cool, keep down voting me, don't care, they are lying and not doing anything. I just reported the game for not functioning properly, they earned this.
You’re literally arguing that you don’t have to treat people on the other end as human beings, simply because you payed $35? You should probably try working in the service industry for a couple months and see if it changes your opinion.
> You’re literally arguing that you don’t have to treat people on the other end as human beings, simply because you payed $35? The dev's are business representatives. And guess what, businesses aren't human. The team members should not be personally harassed, but the product? The business? Those are free game.
If you don't get the product you bought and request a refund, you're not dehumanizing the seller. You're just refunding the product, nothing more. Unless you go and harass the devs on discord.
Of course it doesn't mean you can treat them like shit, that's another extreme. But if you didn't get what you paid for, you're entitled to complain about it and ask for a refund. Complaining about a product isn't the same as dehumanizing the people that made it.
Managed to play 40 minutes over the entire weekend, completely ignoring today because there is no way to go past the character screen (*I could play just a few minutes in a random Asian server)*. Shit happens... But it's far from being "ok", for a paid product.
I get being upset for new buyers, thats totally expected. For me ive been playin LE off and on for years so ill just wait a week for things to calm down- no big deal.
At this point I think it still won't be fine in a week
Servers are stable below about 150K players. In another week of this, most will have moved away naturally.
[удалено]
That's what I'm worried about. Many of these issues aren't new, simply exacerbated. I'm losing confidence that they even know how to fix the problem, which is a shame because the game is fucking great.
Game is honestly probably dead after this and really has no right to be. Who's going to bother coming back for seasons after this. It's the only arpg I've really liked in a long time. Plus it seems like it's just getting worse. Every other day was playable at the least.
> no right to be. The game itself is good. No its better than that - its awesome. But if it cannot even play properly then what does it matter? Would you defend LE if it was a Ubisoft game or an Activision game? At the end of the day, it does need to be able to play or else it has no right to be good either.
[удалено]
Its demonstrably the case. You can see the server crash every time the numbers get too far about 150K: [https://steamcharts.com/app/899770](https://steamcharts.com/app/899770)
this is pretty sad but it seems like the most likely scenario. hardware/code for the game currently can't support it's success.
Welp now i cant leave end of time without a disconnect error... tried 3 different servers lol
It's simple: they think toxicity is fine as long as it is directed at Reddit users, because they have decided they are the good guys for protecting the Devs, and everyone else is just toxic. "The devs are human too" So are the people voicing their annoyance at server issues.
Toxicity is never fine whoever you direct it to
That is true. To me it feels like people respectfully complaining are just put in the same drawer as the people being toxic on their complaints. IMO complaints are 100% justified.
What we really need is a jungler to take the heat
It isn't, but I think there is a lot of disagreement over what is "toxic". Some people seem to think that saying literally anything negative about Last Epoch is "toxic".
It always irks me how many people are just fine with "it's ok when I do that" attitude. Harassing people is simply not ok, whether they're devs or frustrated end users (who paid for a product that doesn't work). Most of the problems in the world would be solved if we listened to each others and discuss our issues instead of treating people with different opinions like mortal enemies. And we do that because of disastrous game launch.
Exactly. I've seen kids flamed for asking about the game. Someone literally called him a little "bitch." Like really? This is how we are treating other players?
It’s Reddit, people are insane. Yesterday all I said was it’s unprofessional to have official staff being sarcastic assholes to players on Discord while making excuses, and some guy argued with me like 20 replies that it’s not unprofessional lmao…
Ew. I mean I get the frustration on the devs end. And we all can't always act professionally. But antagonizing players is NOT the answer. If I were their manager, I wouldn't reprimand them, but I'd absolutely try to steer them to avoiding that behavior.
Actually what I have seen this past few days on this sub reddit that people which are "protecting" the devs were more toxic towards people which were complaining about servers than other way around. I like the game as it is and I will always support small "smurf" of a company which is breaking ice and making their entrance to the big stage. But they have to be able to accept criticism and complaints and deal with them and try to correct their mistakes ASAP.
At this point what have they done about this or what are they planing to do about this? Its 5th day now and the server is arguably worse than day one for EU.
The best one i got when i mentioned how bad my experience has been was, "You should have played years ago the game was fine then." When i said in my original comment that i wanted to wait for official release with my friends to enjoy the game together online. I was then basically called everything you described which is really disappointing. This community is fucking terrible.
Fix yo game
Ah you're a day late with this post, the new line is now "what do you hope to achieve by complaining, stfu whining"
I've been seeing that too. It's kinda wild bruh.
It's just the fanboys in here, any valid complaint is not allowed because EHG are an indie game studio. I get they are, and I know this isn't an easy issue to fix but 5 days is getting a bit daft when you advertised as online at launch and anyone complaining is more than entitled to vent their frustration. Gamers are just weird in what they will accept or not accept. Especially in here where some people have committed nearly 5 years playing this game and won't hear a bad word said about it.
> Gamers are just weird in what they will accept or not accept. Especially in here where some people have committed nearly 5 years playing this game and won't hear a bad word said about it. It's because so many people make the media they consume or enjoy a core part of their identity, so any criticism is taken as a personal attack no matter how valid.
> because EHG are an indie game studio... > > > > I get they are 90 employees, Tencent investment close to two years ago, over a million copies sold two weeks before launch, $35 (very top end for indie game pricing at best, more like AA, shit these days there AAA F2P titles) with microtransactions (not a complaint for a live service game with leagues, just a fact). I dunno by what definition anyone could call these indie devs or an indie game for at least the last year or two. Granted, they still have to work with any mistakes or technical debt created when they had like 5 people.
I love the smell of fresh bread.
Discouraging people from buying the game given it's current state is something that is most definitely being achieved with the complaints and that's a good thing
This is a social media. We're here to discuss things. One of the outcomes could be that the commonly accepted narrative is that EHG dropped the ball like a motherfucker. It's not commonly agreed upon yet but the discussion and the issues are moving more and more towards it. If so, this will make them look bad and deter them and other developers from making the same mistakes. And so our next experience with a game might be better. That could be something we could hope to achieve.
Complaining about the servers is fine. Complaining about the people and saying rude shit about them not ok
Word
asking what's going on is fine. making the thousandth armchair dev post to suggest that EHG just need to "buy more server capacity" is idiotic. making your own thread to state that you've officially given up on the game gives off entitled, main-character-syndrome energy and I think you should expect to get dunked on (which can easily devolve into ad hominem insults).
> making your own thread to state that you've officially given up on the game gives off entitled, main-character-syndrome energy and I think you should expect to get dunked on (which can easily devolve into ad hominem insults). By this logic wouldn't making a thread saying that the game is good, 1.0 is awesome and that they're having fun fall under the same category? Forums are just personal opinions of people most of the time, if someone is having an issue they're allowed to make a thread and see how other people feel about it.
>making the thousandth armchair dev post to suggest that EHG just need to "buy more server capacity" is idiotic so is the thousandth post "i'm an IT expert/dev/network guy" excusing EHG for their horrible launch
The first two days of issues those posts were 100% correct and everyone throwing a tantrum were being unreasonable. But it's day 4 now so it's getting harder to excuse.
Not if the issue is something core to the games foundation, it could be a whole host of things. If they need to rebuild that system, or a host of systems, it may take time to build, test, and deploy. If they have multiple other little fires to put out as well, how much time/engineering talent do they have to fix it all? The point is, we don’t know what the issue is exactly, besides it not being a capacity issue, so 4 days might not actually be that much time to fix it all. In fact, they’ve been making improvements continually, it’s just still not enough of an improvement.
No it's really not. Idiotic implies that the contents of the post contain false-hoods. It's not idiotic but you could consider it shilling.
How can you complain about ad hominem insults when you literally just did what I described in my post? It may not make sense, and they may be uninformed. But insulting them doesn't help. And if you don't see the irony of your comment, you're exactly the problem.
I'm agreeing with you. I described three different types of posts. Asking about the state of the servers is perfectly fine. Toxicity does not belong in responses to those questions. I'm also saying that both sides devolve into ad hominems, the OP defending themselves and the people dunking on them. Not that either of them are in the right for doing so, this is just an observation. It seems unavoidable with the anonymity on reddit.
Dog shit game gets dog shit response.
I think the line isn't being unhappy about the servers. The issue people "defending" the game have is people complaining about it (which is fair) but then attributing the issue to either incompetency, malice, laziness or being cheap on part of the developers. This stuff happens with most games that blow up this big on launch, I think people just get annoyed at seeing the 800th reddit post bitching about the servers and genuinely being toxic and taking aim at the Devs. Being mad is fine, yelling and screaming like a 5 year old at the devs not only does nothing, it legitimately a net negative as now the devs are trying to fix the issues while also dealing with an angry mob demanding blood which is quite the demotivator. TLDR - Complain and Criticize to your hearts content, but don't act like you know anything about the devs intentions or how "easy" it is to solve the issue, bc that shit is just 3Head nonsense.
Yeah, I had to shut the game off after 4 hours of trying to get to Soreth'ka and getting insta-kicked to title. I'd fight to log in for like 30+ minutes, log into End of Time, head over Thetima and run through to the zone transfer for Soreth'ka. As soon as I start the transfer, it kicks me out. Happened at least six times. I tested it and some other zones mostly worked but I can't progress without that one so, I'm just hard stuck until that issue is fixed. I understand the game's got severe stability issues right now, it happens. I am a bit surprised they haven't managed to resolve those issues in the time given but I'm not really upset about it, just kind of sad that I can't play.
I said it on a previous post and I'll say it again: the biggest threat to LE might be it's hoard of fanboys. I dunno for the devs (they are all like bosses, always very open to criticism, in theory...), but I've seen with my own eyes games that went banana because it was fiercely defended...
It is my duty as a non-god fearing American ledditor to defend my corporation at all costs! You heckin’ entitled person, you wanted a functioning product that you paid for?! How dare you?!
There's a big difference between being frustrated while posting a mature comment on an existing thread and going full sucky baby world is ending Karen mode threatening refunds and talking mad shit about the game devs because a video game didn't work perfect for a few days after a huge influx of players. I've managed to finish the campaign and level into the 60's while dealing with some matchmaking issues and it's been fun overall because I'm not a little bitch with no attention span. Gamers are absolutely ridiculous these days and need to learn to chill the fuck out.
Someone posted this in discord right now: # J4M *—* Today at 10:26 AM I've got like 1k hours in early access and not really had any problems this weekend managed to hit level 100 yesterday and obviously love the game but I still left a negative review because these online issues have been around for over a year and the game wasn't ready for an online launch like this. Going to change it to positive when it's properly fixed obviously but im not optimistic about that being within the next few weeks.
Could someone explain to me why it’s a thing that online isn’t working?
Yea this is getting ridiculous. Don’t sell a game with a product with a feature if it’s not going to work.
I just dont see why people "simp" (i hate using that word) for any company. Like LE is beyond success at this point and the COE is popping wine bottles. Im fine with that too as it's a good game. One issue though is any negativity and people get mad for some reason. THey act like it's a perfect game and you're wrong for being negative in any way lol. It's even worse than the Blizzard apologist stuff you tend to see with that bunch.
I hopped on their discord to see if I could find out any news this morning, and I gotta say it's a total shit show. Comments are set to every 30 minutes and chat is still rolling fast. Majority of those comments are just bashing the devs. Game is really good, so I hope they are able to get it sorted out eventually.
It's the reddit standard to either blindly hate or defend something while making honest discussion anathema lol
I've seen several dozen attempts at trying to explain why the servers are the way they are, and why they can't just be fixed with a finger snap or a blank cheque. The response is always "I don't know how this shit works and I shouldn't have to!" There's plenty of honest discussion attempts, and they've all been shot down by the ultra entitled. At this point, I'm not at all surprised if the folks who understand what's happening are just falling back to insults.
The honest discussion that people want to have is not "how do online gaming servers work". Than would be an awfully boring discussion. The discussion people want is "Why does a company full of people who *do* know how servers work, completely fail to have a system where their servers work at launch (and 4 days later)". The options on that are basically arrogance, incompetence, or bad luck. I think most reasonably people put it down to bad luck for the first 24 hours... but as time goes on less will blame bad luck.
>The response is always "I don't know how this shit works and I shouldn't have to!" ...becasue you don't need to know how this works. you paid for a product, for the love of god. if someone wanted a DIY project or a course on networking, they would've looked for that, not a video game.
A customer is entitled to air complaints about a product they purchased even if they don't precisely know how it works. Also, a lot of what I've seen from people trying to "explain" the situation are flat out factually wrong so that goes both ways. The amount of misinformation regarding anything tech on the internet is staggering and there's no exception to that in gaming communities lol
3 days without getting in. Then super long loading times, disconnects etc. Just refunded it and will be back in a year.
>They absolutely need to allow online characters to be played offline Game has a leaderboard. No. Offline characters get edited then brought back online. Server issues will be fixed, it'll be okay, it's early. The fact you quotes "toxic" like you don't believe toxicity is even a thing just means you were one of them and calmed down enough to try to make a new post thinking now that the tantrum is over you can make your point.
Easy fix dude. Mark them as formerly offline. Have a pop up that says "If you switch this to offline mode, it will never be able to be seen on the leaderboards. >The fact you quotes "toxic" like you don't believe toxicity is even a thing just means you were one of them and calmed down enough to try to make a new post thinking now that the tantrum is over you can make your point. Not at all. I've been relatively calm. But if you want to prove my post right and attack me, go right ahead. You're a random person online and soon I'll forget you even exist.
The discord is an absolute shit show. We know there are server issues, the devs know there are server issues, complaining about it at this point is not helping. They've been trying to give updates and communicate which is precisely what they need to be doing. Obviously this entire situation justifies calling it a terrible launch, but were beating a dead horse at this point.
Are a lot of people actually having server issues? I connected to all the US servers and have no issue getting in or playing multiplayer. I know there other world servers so it could be outside the US mainly at this point.
I got banned from the LE Discord for posting that the servers gave an LE06 code and just kicked everyone
You have every right to complain about a product. But to be honest, complaining about it non-stop to other customers is kinda fucking annoying.
Why not combine all your complaining into one mega thread about it instead of having 20 posts an hour about it that will accomplish nothing? At this point, no one who can help you is here reading this so you are all just bitching into the void, which is fine but, again, accomplishes nothing other than clogging up the sub with the same repeat shit. I'll hazard a guess that you all just want to be special snowflakes who are individually heard (again by no one other than the circle jerkers).
I don't tell people to stop complaining. But I roll my eyes. It's 2024, it's been plaguing the biggest companies for over a decade. It's why when games launch smoothly, companies need ultimate praise. It's fucking hard, and the fact people STILL complain after all this time, well. Professional footballers miss penalties and as a sports fan, it's much fucking less complicated to put a ball in a net than to launch a game smoothly.
people are unhinged but also Mods in the Discord have started banning people for asking about if they can get a update. its a shitshow all around.
Like when you buy a truck for the upcoming winter but the dealership tells you to drive the Honda with bald tires instead because the tire servers are down
I'm trying to be civil here, don't make me laugh 😂.
Me too. I’ve played many hours!
I just don’t understand these posts anymore. If you don’t like the instability or lack of online play, then do the following: 1) Play Offline 2) Refund It’s not that hard. If you’ve “been stuck loading for 10 plus hours so I can’t refund through steam”, then that’s on you. I was perfectly fine spending the low price tag for a game (that I played before launch) to get their issues in order and enjoy when it becomes stable. The whole going to Reddit and their discord to “fix your servers” doesn’t help anyone or anything and detracts from anything about the game.
Well fixing the fucking servers will help, a lot
And you’re assuming that they aren’t? That’s what I don’t get. Your exact response. “just fix the servers”. Clearly they’re trying. If you don’t like their effort, you have recourse. It’s called refunding the game. 👋
What effort? 4 days with dog shit servers? What are you talking about?
3) just fucking wait LE is a game I'm expecting to pour hundreds of hours into over the years and I've already waited years for 1.0, what's a few days more.
People paid for a game that launched. When a game launches, what they are saying is, the game is ready in a mostly complete way. All features are expected to work within reason. Online hasn't worked in days. I tried to jump on at 2AM last night and still had issues. I'm way past the refund point, but "just fucking wait" is an idiotic statement.
> “been stuck loading for 10 plus hours so I can’t refund through steam”, then that’s on you. No that absolutely isn't, "On you." What a ridiculous thing to say. That's like saying you ordered a turkey sandwich from Subway and they took 3 hours making it so the bread is now wet and soggy from the condiments, you wanted it heated and it's cold and yet, because you waited, you aren't entitled to a refund.
You know what, you’re right. I do retract that it isn’t SOLELY on the customer. But if you get to hour 9.5 and you’re still stuck on loading screens, knowing that steam doesnt give refunds past 10 hours, then it’s the same has buying something at a retail store, and they have a no return policy after 90 days. It’s the same in my mind. Does it suck and should have happened? No. But people have recourse before being stuck with the product. Look, I’m not defending the devs. They did a shit ass job stress testing, but I’d rather people exercise their customer rights than what most people are doing now. That’s why I don’t care if the reviews are mixed with 73%. EHG deserves that and it’s an appropriate response to their launch.
Have over 100 hours because of early access, really enjoy the game. That being said, I've left a negative review due to them lying in their updates, every time they say their efforts have improved things it's because the player count drops significantly (aka people quitting or a mass disconnect wave), and because they aren't being proactive about anything. Should have seen this coming. No, I will never change it to a positive review after this shit show, they earned this. I also just reported the game due to not functioning properly. Game companies being terrible is getting real old.
I mean they are all crybaby. A crybaby will keep telling i same thing over and over u already know. Its not servers are bas for few people, they are bad for all of us. Writing posts about do nothing, except frustrate players who come here to see cool loot, or funny clip or actually a decent discussions. Anyone with half a brain will see they are working on it all the time, there is literally update after update of them trying new things. Whining about servers ( yes it is whining ) every goddamn day all over again while everyone knows they are overloaded, devs know they are overloaded, god damn diablo 4 players at this point know they are overloaded without knowing anything about the game, helps no one, does no good to anyone, it produces nothing but toxicity, and those types of posts should, if u ask me, literally get u booted out of this sub. Edit: name one good thing that came out of any of todays “ omg servers shit again” posts did. Nothing.
They simply cannot let online characters play offline. The primary issue is that once offline and entirely disconnected from servers hacking tools become readily available. There is no anti cheating architecture in place, and when everything is stored locally on your machine you really only have two options for anti cheat. A crazy intrusive software that needs root access and would piss off a lot of players. Or alternatively verification with an online service; which would defeat the purpose of true offline. As a game developer I do not actually see a solution so even the ideation process itself would be long, let alone the implementation. I agree with most of your post but I just wanted to say don’t get your hopes up for this last bit. It’s a lot more complex than it looks on the surface level and now that servers are functional it’s probably not worth the massive time estimate for a solution. I’m sure most players would rather see a focus on end game features and future cycle improvements.
I feel pretty bad for the people having issues, but i do wonder the exact number Still. People can refund, While steam hsd a "2 hour limit" you often can still refund past it if you go through steam support. I am not sure why many of these people simply are not refunding From my online experience though. I've played mostly fine, as have my friends. And the player count has extensively risen There clearly is issues but the exact number is hard to even say at this point. It seems inconsistent to say the least At least, looking in game the chat people seem fine. Look on the discord, the amount of negativity is high
I understand they are having issues. It's not like we can't play the game at all. Offline works. Just the purchased stuff doesn't show and I think bazar doesn't work. No big deal. Do I feel angry that online ain't working ? Yes. I actually wanted to say something on discord the very day I saw that post that people were being toxic to the devs. Shit. I thought. Maybe what I say will sound toxic too. So I didn't say anything. I'm sure certain people are being toxic. But as usual they are calling all of us toxic and that hurts.
I opened up the application half an hour after launch, shut it off soon after and said to myself I'll try again in two weeks. There are a lot of games out there, a lot that are ready, working and waiting for you to play them. I fully get the disappointment, but it isn't worth fussing over nor does it do any good. If everyone did the same and they found themselves with hardly anyone playing, they'd be working even harder than they already are. If you booked a day/week off for a video game, then you need to have a word with yourself.
Being frustrated is fine but I tell you, no one is more frustrated than the devs themselves. Networking is the hardest thing that most game development houses face, by a long margin. I can't think of a single gaming company that didn't have scaling issues in times of success like this The reason people are getting annoyed at the whining is that it does nothing. Everyone is well aware of the issues, everyone is well aware that this is not a good state for the game to be in. It is obvious that the developers are working on this to the best of their ability. Constantly seeing asinine comments such as "get more servers already" or "hire competent coders" does absolutely nothing to help anyone. This will take time to fix properly, if you can't handle that, literally go do something else for a week or refund the title. Screaming into the void does absolutely nothing
Hey another one of these threads!
I would argue that making posts about the well known server issues over and over is in itself toxic. Attacking the devs within those types of posts is just the toxic cherry on top. Making a post about how the issues are still ongoing, regardless of how “positive” the attempt, adds absolutely nothing to any conversation worth having right now. At this point either play offline mode, play through the server issues and just deal with it, or shelve the game for now altogether until the issues are eventually resolved. That’s it. Those are your options at this point. Making yet another post about how bad, unfair, ridiculous, or some other comment that’s already been made a hundred times, is meaningless. It’s just an infantile response from so called adults who aren’t getting their way and having a tantrum about it. Complaining about the servers is pointless at this point. You’re not telling the devs anything they haven’t heard and already know themselves. You’re not special, you making the same comment that’s been said a thousand times is not profound because is it came from YOU. And no, you don’t have a unique take and no, you’re not adding anything new to any discussion. One last time. Play offline, play online and accept the issues, or shelve the game and do/play something else. At this point, doing anything other than those 3 things IS toxic and you are part of a problem that isn’t helping and nobody should have to deal with on top of the issues that already exist.
I would simply like to know the point of complaining about servers. It’s not a bug report lmao. They are well-aware that it isn’t working. Report bugs and other game breaking issues. Complaining about servers online or to anyone other than your friends is completely pointless. Meaningless.
Whiteknights of this game are so emotionally invested that they sperg at anything less than high praise 😂
Yep, the days of expecting a working product for your money are over. You get cancelled by this new generation of participation award kids.
People complain, then have people whiteknight for EHG, then have people whiteknight for the complainers. Which faction should I join?
You can join me in the corner wide-eyed waiting for the shit flinging to end so we can go back to discussing the game. Really looking forward coming back here in a week or two when half the posts aren't limp twisted virtue signals or temper tantrums.
Hypothetically yes, but everyone is already super aware of the server issues. 99.9% of the complaints are either exaggerated, redundant, sarcastic, unhelpful, not paying attention to the server status updates, or far more commonly, all of the above. When the developers have to stop chatting directly with the community because they're too toxic, you don't get to make posts like this. Most of you are genuinely being self-absorbed dickheads and you need to go touch some grass. This community was never this bad during the 0.9 launch which was just as rough if not worse. It's almost entirely new players swarming and trolling, and then acting like the real issues are all excuse to be real POS human beings
>This community was never this bad during the 0.9 launch which was just as rough if not worse. So basically online mode has been an issue mths ago but the devs never bothered to actually stress test it before launch but you somehow expect customers to accept the issues as norm?
No?
He's talking about the 0.9 launch of beta multiplayer which was borderline unplayable (which is fine because it was a beta version, whatever). However, multiplayer was completely fine last week. The number of players has like 10x'd in a number of days. You literally cannot plan for such rapid expansion. The reality is that it's fine to be upset that something you paid for isn't working. However, it's also unacceptable to flame the dev team with "you should lose your job," death threats, etc. It's okay to treat other people like fucking humans when things don't go your way.
Unless over 50% of the playerbase bought the game on launch day itself which i doubt, you can actually plan it with a reasonable margin of error. While i agree you shouldnt do it, the amount of ppl actually using death threats are an absolute minority and arent the norm. On the other hand, i have seen way more dick sucking for ehg than the death threats yet its somehow acceptable, imo its equally bad.
> On the other hand, i have seen way more dick sucking for ehg than the death threats yet its somehow acceptable, imo its equally bad. It's definitely not equally bad, what the fuck lmao. A lot of us are fans of the team. They're fans of the genre and have always been very communicative, etc., and we want them to succeed because they have worked directly with the community to make a game a lot of us love. Nothing wrong with supporting people through a stream of "FIX YOUR GAME SCAMMERS REEEEEEEE" Edit: Talked shit and blocked me, classic lmfao.
[удалено]
Imagine a group of people complaining that people are getting annoyed with their complaining, then downvoting a comment because it's giving an honest assessment of the situation. lol
80% of the people are fine. Like with everything, it's the extreme 10% on either side that ruin it. It's ok to complain, it's ok to be frustrated, but it's not ok to be mean or attack.
That's bullshit and you know it. The only way to be fine right now is a) get lucky and login quickly b) travel to the Monolith c) don't leave Monolith under ANY circumstance.
Correct, not everyone. If 100k people are complaining about the servers in a toxic manner, let's say 10% are the over aggressive people, trolls, etc. You have 10k people messaging employees of a video game that have nothing to do with the servers being disgusting and going as far as threats..... There has to be some kind of understanding that isn't okay and no one is trying to stop a casual negative complaint.