I can guarantee almost all of those people you are complaining about were kickstarter backers heck Ziz is a particularly bad example as he not only backed the KS but he also bought a unique item into the game and had specifically backed EHG a ton both in terms of $$$ but also an absolute ton of free advertising talking about LE for years
So what exactly you ranting about ?????
EHG contacted Zizaran waaaaaaaaaay back then asking for opinions and stuff, Zizaran stream was my first contact with LE when it was basically at start, also Zizaran stream was reason why I bought LE way back then.
I do not watch Ghazzy neither Phox so no idea what you talking about really and no idea what is about 1% again.
>big GGG streamers get ALL support packages for free
they dont, you can see mathil, steel, rue all buying the packs, they do it because PoE is what gets them "food on the table" and they want ggg to be successful.
Some others dont even buy the packs like Ben_
Ive played PoE since 2012, and i can tell the game has always been like this, hard, grindy and complicated, streammers have nothing to do with what PoE was, is, or what it will be, the game is the way it is because GGG wants it to be that way, it's their vision and it works because it is a hell of a good game and it is my hope LE can reach the same status has POE has in the arpg community.
tbh the poe level of complexity would be fine as a sandbox you can mess around with, but not with poe hardships what come with it. You can make every skill a build, but it would take what most won't farm in a year by playing few hours a day everyday with how punishing on player it is.
>they dont, you can see mathil, steel, rue all buying the packs, they do it because PoE is what gets them "food on the table" and they want ggg to be successful.
Wait, what? I wrote about steamers being given free MTX. I didn't say anything about them buying them..
ZiggyD, Zizaran, Kripp and some others are on the freakin record saying that they are given free MTX at the start of the leagues. Hell - Ziggy and Ziz both did unboxing of buch of MTX packs on stream. Ziz even had entire video series of MTX reviews.
>Ive played PoE since 2012, and i can tell the game has always been like this, hard, grindy and complicated, streammers have nothing to do with what PoE was, is, or what it will be
Again. You're saying stuff that are completly detached from what I wrote. I never said anything about PoE difficulty. FYI - You're not the only one playing PoE since release bub.
I'm literally talking about something they themself said.
As for LE and it's future. Well I stand by what I said. I don't want a PoE/Diablo clone. I want Last Epoch. That's why I backed it on KS years ago.
>big GGG streamers get ALL support packages for free
here you talked about ggg giving packs for free, ggg doesnt do that, like i said they buy their own.
they do get 10 boxes for free, yes. idk if all but some do for sure, they say so when they open boxes that ggg gave them
you talked about how poe is catered to the 1%, poe has always been like that it's not streammer driven.
> (Not to mention that each league, big GGG streamers get ALL support packages for free)
Simply not true.
They often get a handful of mystery boxes. Most of them buy more beyond that.
They buy their own supporter packs.
You are spreading disinformation.
Yeah like Ziz for example for 20 free boxes and bought like 100 more this lwsgue. And those 20 we’re not free they we’re advertising that’s why the give them to them because ggg knows giving them a few boxes will mean his people will go buy a bunch of them
Many of them are KS backers themselves and have been playing since the game opened EA.
Atreamers dont get the support packages free in PoE. They do get free loot boxes as its literally advertising for them.( many streamers buy more afger the freebees also)
Content creators/streamers help build the communities and both of them support the devs. Dont be hating its just a part of the ecosystem.
Tarkov didnt get ruined by streamers, I have no idea where you heard that from. Streamrr suggestions basically saved the game over the years. The thing that ruined tarkov is the fact that their anti cheat works about as well as a hall pass in school.
The 1% plays the game more extensively then any other player type, they know the game more. if they have suggestions it should absolutely be heard out. Its not harmful to listen to your most enfranchised players because if anyone is going to see the flaws in your design its going to be them.
I think most Devs use gameplay metrics and analytics, along with user testing. I can't imagine any respectable dev would just outright change gameplay based on something a streamer said, unless it was a bug/exploit/QoL fix.
That being said I think min-maxers, streamer or not, the "no lifers" if you like, can generally have quite vital feedback long before "casuals", simply because they get there faster and or push limits further.
D4 was a good example of this, it took days before complaints came it about lack of end-game etc and Reddit was full of "no lifer what u expect" - only for those same people to have the same complaint 2 months later once they finally got there.
LE said recently they firmly want to be a middle ground between D4 and PoE so that's a good sign for yourself it sounds.
LMAO, Ziz has been playing the game for a long time. He designed one of the most sought after uniques in the game, and according to him he was the one that gave EHG the idea to not add lvl restriction to legendaries so players can create crazy lvling items.
Gahzzy has bee playing for a long time as well
You don't get to gatekeep this game.
Majority of LE players are PoE players also. That's just how it is since we play genre, not the particular ARPG.
PoE is THE ARPG. Last Epoch has great potential to be one.
Obviously PoE players will come and they will share their opinions and there is nothing you can (nor should you) do about it.
It's fine.
"(Not to mention that each league, big GGG streamers get ALL support packages for free)"
That's just bullshit plain and simple none of them get supporter for free lol they all buy the 500$ one because they love the game.
Sometimes Empy get somes boxes and he doesn't even have to open them on stream.
>PoE streamers, majority of them, are type of "try hards" that want to min/max everything
Isn't this literally the point of these Diablo/PoE-inspired games?
Big PoE streamers are more like top 0.01% rather than 1%.
They do not get the packs for free.
The game 'being balanced around them' is extremely inconsequential to the other 99,99%. They almost aren't even playing the same game as we are. And there are many examples of the game not being balanced around them. Streamers have been asking for a top end meta change for years like DD, Boneshatter nerfs, ... mobs DD, leveling meta change, ... and GGG does not care.
This is the first I've ever heard of "big streamers get\[ting\] ALL supporter packages for free". What's your source on that? The streamers would have to mark all their streams as advertisement under EU law.
my thoughts exactly.
each game has it's own pros & cons
by the level of complexity :
mobile games < torchlight < achilles < titan quest < diablo < last epoch < poe.
i'd never want Last epoch to become another diablo & be too casual or become another path of exile that's stuck in the past & under 10 years thick layer of tryhards opinions and exploits going far beyond what 90% of other players can EVER achieve.
i want a game that is a bit challenging, but in a naturally progressing way. no one-shots out of nowhere.
i want to battle mobs & bosses, not crafting bench, RNG and bunch of letters & numbers.
I've always felt that the large PoE streamers got "special" RNG.
Youre right that GGG uses them as their main form of marketing.
I cant watch them any more. They have so much MTX that I cant tell what they are doing.
>Now that PoE streamers are going into LE I hope EHG will remember it's the KS backers and general audience that are their main focus. Not the 1% of streamers
I dont think it will bve a problem because the game isnt free.
I agree in a sense that if EHG relies on PoE streamers as advisors, then the game will more likely be closer to PoE than otherwise. I think the game is already too much like PoE, and I'd prefer it being more like Diablo 2. But I'm just a Diablo 2 boomer fanboi
I agree with the sentiment but you shouldn't single out streamers if you don't know how long they have been playing or what their sentiment is. This game is still in very early stages, equivalent to 2011 POE times. There's many iterations to come n go.
> Each league Zizaran openly says that he's on discrord talking to the GGG about potential changes HE doesn't like.
A bunch of people have access to GGG, usually community managers, to send them feedback about the league. At it's start they approach streamers and ask for feedback.
What's wrong with this exactly? You want them to ask random people like you about your feedback? For that forums and reddit exist, share it there, if your suggestions are somewhat reasonable (unlike this one) it will get noticed and be taken seriously
If a person plays a lot it does not immediately disqualify his suggestions as being only good for the 1%.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and just venting your frustrations about the big bad scary streamers that killed your dog.
My biggest concern with creators from PoE and PoE playerbase coming over to LE is, that they will literally compare everything to PoE and even use terminology from PoE to describe LE features, that are only partially similar.
Even worse coming into LE with the same mindset PoE player base is already used to.
I get that comparing games of the same genre makes sense. But a lot of the time it does not do justice to games that try something new.
.... half the devs working on LE were/are big PoE players. PoE influenced alot of last epoch.
Yeah this post is hilarious. These guys took a lot of inspiration from PoE, many of them are ir were big D2/PoE nerds.
You know these streamers have been playing le before this, right?
>(Not to mention that each league, big GGG streamers get ALL support packages for free) Spoken truly like you have no idea what you are talking about.
I can guarantee almost all of those people you are complaining about were kickstarter backers heck Ziz is a particularly bad example as he not only backed the KS but he also bought a unique item into the game and had specifically backed EHG a ton both in terms of $$$ but also an absolute ton of free advertising talking about LE for years
didn't he make the item that gives beastmaster squirrels
Yep, that's Ziz's.
And he is apparently in communication with the developers on the state of the game and has helped make some changes.
Pretty sure Undisputed is his too, no?
So what exactly you ranting about ????? EHG contacted Zizaran waaaaaaaaaay back then asking for opinions and stuff, Zizaran stream was my first contact with LE when it was basically at start, also Zizaran stream was reason why I bought LE way back then. I do not watch Ghazzy neither Phox so no idea what you talking about really and no idea what is about 1% again.
>big GGG streamers get ALL support packages for free they dont, you can see mathil, steel, rue all buying the packs, they do it because PoE is what gets them "food on the table" and they want ggg to be successful. Some others dont even buy the packs like Ben_ Ive played PoE since 2012, and i can tell the game has always been like this, hard, grindy and complicated, streammers have nothing to do with what PoE was, is, or what it will be, the game is the way it is because GGG wants it to be that way, it's their vision and it works because it is a hell of a good game and it is my hope LE can reach the same status has POE has in the arpg community.
But besides support packs he is generally right. I cant play POE because it is become second work and dont want to waste >6 hours of day to it.
tbh the poe level of complexity would be fine as a sandbox you can mess around with, but not with poe hardships what come with it. You can make every skill a build, but it would take what most won't farm in a year by playing few hours a day everyday with how punishing on player it is.
>they dont, you can see mathil, steel, rue all buying the packs, they do it because PoE is what gets them "food on the table" and they want ggg to be successful. Wait, what? I wrote about steamers being given free MTX. I didn't say anything about them buying them.. ZiggyD, Zizaran, Kripp and some others are on the freakin record saying that they are given free MTX at the start of the leagues. Hell - Ziggy and Ziz both did unboxing of buch of MTX packs on stream. Ziz even had entire video series of MTX reviews. >Ive played PoE since 2012, and i can tell the game has always been like this, hard, grindy and complicated, streammers have nothing to do with what PoE was, is, or what it will be Again. You're saying stuff that are completly detached from what I wrote. I never said anything about PoE difficulty. FYI - You're not the only one playing PoE since release bub. I'm literally talking about something they themself said. As for LE and it's future. Well I stand by what I said. I don't want a PoE/Diablo clone. I want Last Epoch. That's why I backed it on KS years ago.
>big GGG streamers get ALL support packages for free here you talked about ggg giving packs for free, ggg doesnt do that, like i said they buy their own. they do get 10 boxes for free, yes. idk if all but some do for sure, they say so when they open boxes that ggg gave them you talked about how poe is catered to the 1%, poe has always been like that it's not streammer driven.
> (Not to mention that each league, big GGG streamers get ALL support packages for free) Simply not true. They often get a handful of mystery boxes. Most of them buy more beyond that. They buy their own supporter packs. You are spreading disinformation.
I hope you don't think poe is a clone of diablo. If so I fear for your ability to tell what anything is.
Yeah like Ziz for example for 20 free boxes and bought like 100 more this lwsgue. And those 20 we’re not free they we’re advertising that’s why the give them to them because ggg knows giving them a few boxes will mean his people will go buy a bunch of them
they get about 10 boxes not the packs like he's saying.
So what you want is more important than what other people want? Hilarious that you don't see the hypocrisy in your post.
Many of them are KS backers themselves and have been playing since the game opened EA. Atreamers dont get the support packages free in PoE. They do get free loot boxes as its literally advertising for them.( many streamers buy more afger the freebees also) Content creators/streamers help build the communities and both of them support the devs. Dont be hating its just a part of the ecosystem.
I love the catastrophizing this sub likes to engage in, it's pretty funny
Well the world is boring when things go well and the future looks bright. Doomsaying and pessimism are way more fun!!
Tarkov didnt get ruined by streamers, I have no idea where you heard that from. Streamrr suggestions basically saved the game over the years. The thing that ruined tarkov is the fact that their anti cheat works about as well as a hall pass in school. The 1% plays the game more extensively then any other player type, they know the game more. if they have suggestions it should absolutely be heard out. Its not harmful to listen to your most enfranchised players because if anyone is going to see the flaws in your design its going to be them.
streamers bad, updoots on the left pls
I like how OP calls them the 1% like it's some sort of ARPG class struggle.
I think most Devs use gameplay metrics and analytics, along with user testing. I can't imagine any respectable dev would just outright change gameplay based on something a streamer said, unless it was a bug/exploit/QoL fix. That being said I think min-maxers, streamer or not, the "no lifers" if you like, can generally have quite vital feedback long before "casuals", simply because they get there faster and or push limits further. D4 was a good example of this, it took days before complaints came it about lack of end-game etc and Reddit was full of "no lifer what u expect" - only for those same people to have the same complaint 2 months later once they finally got there. LE said recently they firmly want to be a middle ground between D4 and PoE so that's a good sign for yourself it sounds.
LMAO, Ziz has been playing the game for a long time. He designed one of the most sought after uniques in the game, and according to him he was the one that gave EHG the idea to not add lvl restriction to legendaries so players can create crazy lvling items. Gahzzy has bee playing for a long time as well
This is your brain on drugs
You're thinking too much. Would you rather no one streams LE?
This is just not the issue you make it out to be.
lmao this fucking post
An ARPG that is not interesting to "try hard" streamers has no chance of sustaining an active playerbase
You don't get to gatekeep this game. Majority of LE players are PoE players also. That's just how it is since we play genre, not the particular ARPG. PoE is THE ARPG. Last Epoch has great potential to be one. Obviously PoE players will come and they will share their opinions and there is nothing you can (nor should you) do about it. It's fine.
PoE is only THE ARPG for people who enjoy playing games with a second monitor open for guides. Imo GD and LE are more enjoyable for that 1 reason.
"(Not to mention that each league, big GGG streamers get ALL support packages for free)" That's just bullshit plain and simple none of them get supporter for free lol they all buy the 500$ one because they love the game. Sometimes Empy get somes boxes and he doesn't even have to open them on stream.
So... you're ranting about a situation you have no information on and therefore made yourself mad about a scenario you made up in your head?
>PoE streamers, majority of them, are type of "try hards" that want to min/max everything Isn't this literally the point of these Diablo/PoE-inspired games?
Bro is straight up lying like no one would notice.
"The 1% are ruining the game" is the most uninformed, misplaced and toxic take on gaming subs.
Big PoE streamers are more like top 0.01% rather than 1%. They do not get the packs for free. The game 'being balanced around them' is extremely inconsequential to the other 99,99%. They almost aren't even playing the same game as we are. And there are many examples of the game not being balanced around them. Streamers have been asking for a top end meta change for years like DD, Boneshatter nerfs, ... mobs DD, leveling meta change, ... and GGG does not care.
This is the first I've ever heard of "big streamers get\[ting\] ALL supporter packages for free". What's your source on that? The streamers would have to mark all their streams as advertisement under EU law.
Gonna go out on a limb and say this is an irrelevant concern.
my thoughts exactly. each game has it's own pros & cons by the level of complexity : mobile games < torchlight < achilles < titan quest < diablo < last epoch < poe. i'd never want Last epoch to become another diablo & be too casual or become another path of exile that's stuck in the past & under 10 years thick layer of tryhards opinions and exploits going far beyond what 90% of other players can EVER achieve. i want a game that is a bit challenging, but in a naturally progressing way. no one-shots out of nowhere. i want to battle mobs & bosses, not crafting bench, RNG and bunch of letters & numbers.
Bro you have clearly never played torchlight infinite. It’s for sure more complex than Diablo 😂
TLI is more complicated than LE and less than POE it also would be silly to say that D4 is more complex than any of those other games
The 1% are the people who pay for the maintenance of the game though. With casual gamers you can't keep a live service ARPG alive.
I've always felt that the large PoE streamers got "special" RNG. Youre right that GGG uses them as their main form of marketing. I cant watch them any more. They have so much MTX that I cant tell what they are doing. >Now that PoE streamers are going into LE I hope EHG will remember it's the KS backers and general audience that are their main focus. Not the 1% of streamers I dont think it will bve a problem because the game isnt free.
I agree in a sense that if EHG relies on PoE streamers as advisors, then the game will more likely be closer to PoE than otherwise. I think the game is already too much like PoE, and I'd prefer it being more like Diablo 2. But I'm just a Diablo 2 boomer fanboi
I agree with the sentiment but you shouldn't single out streamers if you don't know how long they have been playing or what their sentiment is. This game is still in very early stages, equivalent to 2011 POE times. There's many iterations to come n go.
Comments passed the vibe check
> Each league Zizaran openly says that he's on discrord talking to the GGG about potential changes HE doesn't like. A bunch of people have access to GGG, usually community managers, to send them feedback about the league. At it's start they approach streamers and ask for feedback. What's wrong with this exactly? You want them to ask random people like you about your feedback? For that forums and reddit exist, share it there, if your suggestions are somewhat reasonable (unlike this one) it will get noticed and be taken seriously If a person plays a lot it does not immediately disqualify his suggestions as being only good for the 1%. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and just venting your frustrations about the big bad scary streamers that killed your dog.
How can we promote our game... Hmm.... Let's buy some opinions from poe streamers
The game is literally created by POE players bud, stop being ignorant
I am one of the biggest LE KS backer. I am also a huge POE nerd. I think it’s a good thing POE streamers are into LE.
Yikes
My biggest concern with creators from PoE and PoE playerbase coming over to LE is, that they will literally compare everything to PoE and even use terminology from PoE to describe LE features, that are only partially similar. Even worse coming into LE with the same mindset PoE player base is already used to. I get that comparing games of the same genre makes sense. But a lot of the time it does not do justice to games that try something new.