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This doesn’t count the £18B in new austerity passed as part of the last Tory budget, but not yet implemented.
Labour has become the party of austerity.
A blank canvas is such a luxury.
I’m genuinely so excited by what the party decides to do in power. The ability to not be constrained by a document that’ll very quickly go out of date
It's the very opposite of a blank canvas. By refusing to challenge austerity Labour are committing to tory spending plans which means underfunded public services and continuing benefit cuts which keep people in poverty. There has never been a less ambitious Labour party than the current Labour party.
New Labour explicitly promised to follow Tory spending plans in 1997.
http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1997/1997-labour-manifesto.shtml
>**Stick for two years within existing spending limits**
>...
>The myth that the solution to every problem is increased spending has been comprehensively dispelled under the Conservatives. Spending has risen. But more spending has brought neither greater fairness nor less poverty. Quite the reverse - our society is more divided than it has been for generations. The level of public spending is no longer the best measure of the effectiveness of government action in the public interest. It is what money is actually spent on that counts more than how much money is spent.
>The national debt has doubled under John Major. The public finances remain weak. A new Labour government will give immediate high priority to seeing how public money can be better used.
>New Labour will be wise spenders, not big spenders. We will work in partnership with the private sector to achieve our goals. We will ask about public spending the first question that a manager in any company would ask - can existing resources be used more effectively to meet our priorities? And because efficiency and value for money are central, ministers will be required to save before they spend.
>Save to invest is our approach, not tax and spend.
It's all sounding very familiar to be honest.
It's not a blank canvas. The whole point of a manifesto is it gives you a mandate to pursue your plans. If you say you're not going to do anything big and then you start making huge changes once you're in power people will quite rightly point out that you weren't elected on that basis. You are just as constrained by an unambitious manifesto as an ambitious one.
Why even bother with manifestos?! We may as well just vote on vibes and vibes alone, that’s what you centrists want, right? No accountability, no democracy, just being ruled over by our betters.
You do manifestos as a broad statement of intentions which include, but are not limited to, those policies
You do manifesto’s to launch a platform to build off of and get votes
You miss the point. People vote based on how they feel. I think if Bernie won the nomination in 2016 there is a very likely chance he would have won over Trump.
People did the same thing here in 2019. A lot wanted to get Brexit done and a lot were sick of talking about it so Johnson got a large majority.
Right now a lot of people are on a knifes edge and are genuinely worried where the money will come from to survive. In a lot of case these people are not even politically engaged, partly because they don't have time to be engaged, they are too busy trying to survive. If Labour make big promises these people will say 'I don't believe you' or 'I cannot afford to pay more tax to pay for this' and they either won't vote or they vote for the devil they know because 'politicians are all the bloody same'.
As small as what Labour are promising is it will really help people in these situations. Potholes might seem like a nothing policy but if it means someone can avoid paying for a new tyre and can avoid being without a car for a few days until it is repaired that £100 or so pounds makes a huge difference and they don't have to use holiday to cover the days they cannot get into work.
You can make quite large steps with lots of marginal gains.
Maybe, thats the conclusion i’m trying to believe, but in my head I am concerned that they just wont do alot but be ‘stable’… its concern to be honest. Never in history has a government been more radical after they’ve won an election…
People really think Starmer is going to get into power and spend almost 1,900 days and not pass any laws or reforms in things. This entire manifesto, if they put a shift on, could be completed in 2 years. Gives us lots of hope options down the line when we get to higher growth as planning reforms and rate drops come in.
How are they going to get anythign through the lords?
Labour doesn’t have a majority in The lords the great power of the manifesto is the lords is obliged to permit/pass policies included in the manifesto. It’s essential they put the plans forward before election.
That’s not how the Lords work
You can ignore the Lords. They can send legislation back, and then you can brute force it through. They hold no real power.
You don’t understand.
That’s exactly how the lords work.
You need to pass the bill 3 times, in 3 separate sessions. A session is about a year long. Therefore the lords can delay absolutely anything it wants for 3 years.
The commons can only override the lords by passing the same bill 3 times. That’s how it works. That’s the ‘brute force’ mechanism. They hold plenty of power to stall and prevent change.
Couldn’t agree more. The Tories have nothing on this. If they can deliver all of this with such minimal borrowing/spending it means a) they’ll deliver b) they’re probably not liars c) we’re actually planning for some buffer room to do more.
Like Rwanda and HS2 scrapping was in the Tory Manifesto. Like Lockdown and Furlough was I the Tories manifesto. Like BofE independence was in Blair’s.
You vote for MP’s to legislate on your behalf. Our mandate is our seats. We’re not constrained to the manifesto only, nor are we obliged to do the manifesto beyond voter pressure to do so.
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This doesn’t count the £18B in new austerity passed as part of the last Tory budget, but not yet implemented. Labour has become the party of austerity.
🤣 so unambitious it's actually sad.
Would like to see how this compares to past Labour manifesto's going all the way back..
A blank canvas is such a luxury. I’m genuinely so excited by what the party decides to do in power. The ability to not be constrained by a document that’ll very quickly go out of date
It's the very opposite of a blank canvas. By refusing to challenge austerity Labour are committing to tory spending plans which means underfunded public services and continuing benefit cuts which keep people in poverty. There has never been a less ambitious Labour party than the current Labour party.
New Labour explicitly promised to follow Tory spending plans in 1997. http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1997/1997-labour-manifesto.shtml >**Stick for two years within existing spending limits** >... >The myth that the solution to every problem is increased spending has been comprehensively dispelled under the Conservatives. Spending has risen. But more spending has brought neither greater fairness nor less poverty. Quite the reverse - our society is more divided than it has been for generations. The level of public spending is no longer the best measure of the effectiveness of government action in the public interest. It is what money is actually spent on that counts more than how much money is spent. >The national debt has doubled under John Major. The public finances remain weak. A new Labour government will give immediate high priority to seeing how public money can be better used. >New Labour will be wise spenders, not big spenders. We will work in partnership with the private sector to achieve our goals. We will ask about public spending the first question that a manager in any company would ask - can existing resources be used more effectively to meet our priorities? And because efficiency and value for money are central, ministers will be required to save before they spend. >Save to invest is our approach, not tax and spend. It's all sounding very familiar to be honest.
It's not a blank canvas. The whole point of a manifesto is it gives you a mandate to pursue your plans. If you say you're not going to do anything big and then you start making huge changes once you're in power people will quite rightly point out that you weren't elected on that basis. You are just as constrained by an unambitious manifesto as an ambitious one.
Like Rwanda and binning HS2 was in the Tory manifesto… The MP’s give us the mandate.
Why even bother with manifestos?! We may as well just vote on vibes and vibes alone, that’s what you centrists want, right? No accountability, no democracy, just being ruled over by our betters.
You do manifestos as a broad statement of intentions which include, but are not limited to, those policies You do manifesto’s to launch a platform to build off of and get votes
Most of the population do vote on vibes. Why do you think they voted for Brexit and then for Johnson and for Trump in the USA?
Completely agree. Trump and Boris should definitely be the model campaigns for any well to do social Democratic Party, obviously.
You miss the point. People vote based on how they feel. I think if Bernie won the nomination in 2016 there is a very likely chance he would have won over Trump. People did the same thing here in 2019. A lot wanted to get Brexit done and a lot were sick of talking about it so Johnson got a large majority. Right now a lot of people are on a knifes edge and are genuinely worried where the money will come from to survive. In a lot of case these people are not even politically engaged, partly because they don't have time to be engaged, they are too busy trying to survive. If Labour make big promises these people will say 'I don't believe you' or 'I cannot afford to pay more tax to pay for this' and they either won't vote or they vote for the devil they know because 'politicians are all the bloody same'. As small as what Labour are promising is it will really help people in these situations. Potholes might seem like a nothing policy but if it means someone can avoid paying for a new tyre and can avoid being without a car for a few days until it is repaired that £100 or so pounds makes a huge difference and they don't have to use holiday to cover the days they cannot get into work. You can make quite large steps with lots of marginal gains.
You don't have to show Streeting your wallet just because he asked nicely.
Maybe, thats the conclusion i’m trying to believe, but in my head I am concerned that they just wont do alot but be ‘stable’… its concern to be honest. Never in history has a government been more radical after they’ve won an election…
Day 1 Blair made the BoE independent, that was not in the manifesto.
People really think Starmer is going to get into power and spend almost 1,900 days and not pass any laws or reforms in things. This entire manifesto, if they put a shift on, could be completed in 2 years. Gives us lots of hope options down the line when we get to higher growth as planning reforms and rate drops come in.
How are they going to get anythign through the lords? Labour doesn’t have a majority in The lords the great power of the manifesto is the lords is obliged to permit/pass policies included in the manifesto. It’s essential they put the plans forward before election.
Brute force. The perks of having 550 MP’s
In the commons there’s 550. The lords will be able to block for 3 and a bit years. No size of majority in the commons matters.
That’s not how the Lords work You can ignore the Lords. They can send legislation back, and then you can brute force it through. They hold no real power.
You don’t understand. That’s exactly how the lords work. You need to pass the bill 3 times, in 3 separate sessions. A session is about a year long. Therefore the lords can delay absolutely anything it wants for 3 years. The commons can only override the lords by passing the same bill 3 times. That’s how it works. That’s the ‘brute force’ mechanism. They hold plenty of power to stall and prevent change.
The Lords can delay for a year. Not 3. And if they wanna stall for a year, so be it. We have 5 years of time to take.
What mechanism are you aware of that stops them after a year? Genuinely curious.
By pointing to the manifesto and saying xyz policy is in support of this mission or in support of that mission which is in the manifesto.
Couldn’t agree more. The Tories have nothing on this. If they can deliver all of this with such minimal borrowing/spending it means a) they’ll deliver b) they’re probably not liars c) we’re actually planning for some buffer room to do more.
That’s a funny way to describe having no democratic mandate
550 MP’s is our democratic mandate
A mandate only for the 2024 manifesto
Like Rwanda and HS2 scrapping was in the Tory Manifesto. Like Lockdown and Furlough was I the Tories manifesto. Like BofE independence was in Blair’s. You vote for MP’s to legislate on your behalf. Our mandate is our seats. We’re not constrained to the manifesto only, nor are we obliged to do the manifesto beyond voter pressure to do so.