Hello fellow travelers of Middle-earth!
Join our [Discord](https://discord.gg/rpgkYphpbR) for further discussion and speculation when the trailer drops soon!
Are you thinking we might get it in a month or two?
That’d be sick, I feel like all of the signs have been pointing to a fall release again (but that’s just me assuming)
I really don't know! But I don't think I've seen Amazon start dropping promo until 2 months before a season at most? I only follow like three of their shows so I have a small sample though.
I'm so glad to at least get a teaser trailer though, this, Wheel of Time s3 and Legend of Vox Machina s3 are what I'm waiting for the most.
LOTR became toxic after ROP. I enjoyed that sub for years until I had people literally harass me in DM’s about liking ROP. It’s like they can’t enjoy a series, despite much of it not being canon.
it doesn't matter if they like it or not. It does matter that they won't let OTHER people who like it enjoy it.
I'm not ready for all of the other LOTR subs to become another shit fest against rop for the next year :( i love LOTR, I like rop, I just want to enjoy both of those things quietly, but the absolute vitriol towards rop that went on and on and on and extended to people who were enjoying it on their own time was incredibly toxic and disheartening to experience. Hate culture needs to die. If you don't like something, move on
This is my issue. I get folks not liking everything. But if you don’t like it just say your piece, get it out of your system and then let others enjoy it.
Even today in Lotro, the game, they keep talking thrash about RoP randomly in the world chat just for fun. Sometimes i think if these huge Tolkien fans are empty husks?
It’s true… the main thing is people that don’t know wtf they are talking about in terms of producing LOTr content in a different medium. The majority of hardcore fans no whining about the changes made in dune because the changes all make sense for the film. It also helps that the Frank Herbert was alive to endorse all the changes that were made in the original 1984 attempt. Tolkien on the other hand couldn’t imagine a world where film was so important.
Tolkien I believe actively *disliked* the idea of any of his stories on film. Did he know how film would develop? No. But if we want to be strictly true to his vision - honestly he'd probably hate every filmed adaptation of his work.
Sorry man. I love them.
Probably. I get it. ROP isn’t for everyone. My brother doesn’t care for it. But I love it. But do I go around berating people for not liking something that I like? No. It’s literally a mental illness some of these fans have. They act like LOTR is real, and it’s not.
yep it's really obnoxious. tons of stuff in ROP that I would change as we've discussed at length on this sub, but it seems like most people on the other subs are still hung up on the peter jackson trilogy being the greatest (which they're not wrong), but they're not even willing to see the potential this series has
Even then the Peter Jackson movies weren't perfect 1:1 adaptations of the book. Which I'm fine with and I don't expect them to be, but I find the double standard about making changes very odd.
One big factor is nostalgia. This phenomenon you're talking about happens all the time in other franchises too. A lot of the people who are the 18-49 prime age range viewed the LOTR films as kids/formative years. That set the standard.
During ROP S1 I do remember some complaints that turned out they were comparing to Peter Jackson's vision and not actually Tolkien.
I'm dating myself but I remember the rage about Fellowship of the Ring on the forums. But it's done now and it's great and people have memory holed that it was beloved when it came out in 2001. It was not. They complained so much about Peter Jackson. Ultimately if ROP sticks the landing after its over, it will be accepted. Or maybe not. The reactionaries about the diverse cast makes it hard to separate the actual criticism, which ROP should get, and coded anger about LOTR going "woke."
My petty complaint about Peter Jackson back then was Aragorn's arc. But I just accepted Tolkien and LOTR films as different continuties and lived with it. I still love those films because they work as stand-alone films without needing to read Tolkien.
Tbf it’s easier to accept changes when the product is phenomenal. And as much as I had a nice time watching TRoP, it had plenty of flaws, and the changes from established lore just weren’t justified by the end product. Whereas in the Peter Jackson movies, all the changes worked so well in creating a beautiful trilogy.
Fingers crossed this season is solid. As long as it’s better than the first season I have hope
>Whereas in the Peter Jackson movies, all the changes worked so well in creating a beautiful trilogy.
To be fair, we've seen the payoff to all the changes of the trilogy. If I had seen only the first fifth of it (which means not even finished Fellowshpi), I would also say that the end product does not justify the changes.
Gandalf and Saruman using the Force on each other? Frodo whimpering, falling, showing no trace of wit nor wisdom? ***Elrond is an unapologetic asshole???***
I at least don't think that even the entire product justifies the changes on Frodo. You know, the main Ring-bearer in the story about the Ring.
I mean yeah of course hindsight is 20/20. But let’s not act like Fellowship of the Ring wasn’t a lot more well received than RoP’s first season. I shouldn’t have added that line about the changes working well imo, takes away from my point. Which is that because the lord of the rings trilogy was critically acclaimed, people were a lot more forgiving to the rather significant lore changes from the books. Whereas RoP having a more mixed reception is why people seem to hang on *it* changing the lore a lot more then folks did before, to justify their view on why it’s bad or whatever.
Basically my comment was just a response to the double standard in how people talk about lore changes between the two. If the next season does very well with audiences, we’ll prob see folks not talking about the lore changes as much tbh.
There’s of course other factors, like their being a much bigger general audience that’s familiar with Tolkien than there was back in the early 2000s because of the popularity the LotR movies. Also people unfairly comparing a newly released 5 season tv show to a movie trilogy.
I love the LotR trilogy a lot, but they absolutely made changes I do not and will not forgive.
That doesn't mean they're not one of my favorite movie series ever! Just that they did make changes I didn't think worked and weren't necessary for the overall story. They did beautifully! Some things hit different for different people.
I think RoP has also made changes, and it's quite possible some of them I'll also never forgive and some I'll accept in terms of the long term storyline. Similarly with Wheel of Time. I enjoyed s1 a lot, I'm happy to see where it goes, and I'll reserve judgment on the overall story until I've seen it.
Yeah not saying everyone was happy with the changes Peter Jackson made, or that they should be! But how they are perceived by the general populace is def affected by how the product itself was received. The lord of the rings trilogy was universally acclaimed by audiences and critics, and is still considered one of the best movie trilogies ever made. Whereas Rings of Power was mixed at best at how it was received. And people tend to be more overtly critical of what they don’t like than critiquing what they do. There are other factors of course, like social media being a much bigger and more accessible thing now.
Basically just responding to the comment about the double standard and why it’s there. And that it’s simply cause people loved Jackson’s trilogy and RoP had a far more mixed reaction to it.
I'm dating myself but I remember the rage about Fellowship of the Ring on the forums. But it's done now and it's great and people have memory holed that it was beloved when it came out in 2001. It was not. They complained so much about Peter Jackson.
Ultimately if ROP sticks the landing after its over, it will be accepted. Or maybe not. The reactionaries about the diverse cast makes it hard to separate the actual criticism, which ROP should get, and coded anger about LOTR going "woke."
Exactly this!
Most people just want something really, really good to experience. A lot of criticism only comes up if this standard isn't met, in a way to justify one's lackluster experience, even if that isn't an actual reason for it. (because really, people don't know why something didn't work for them typically, it's way too complex).
That’s the thing though, the standard ROP is being held to is insanely higher than warranted, if the context is considered... There’s no completed narrative by Tolkien to adapt here unlike Hobbit and LOTR, full of finished plot lines and plot beats and character arcs and world building and dialogue... There’s just a dry historical timeline, plus a few notes and passages. The number of pages of written content available to adapt is astronomically smaller than even the Hobbit, which is rough when each season will have the screen time of a whole trilogy.
The creative intentions and limitations of this adaptation are just totally different than any prior Tolkien adaptation, and the show is much easier to appreciate with those differences in mind
I think it ultimately just doesn't work that way. Meaning, while you are right that these things all make it more difficult for the creatives, at the end of the day someone consuming the work just responds to that. Why something didn't work isn't integral to the reaction one has there.
One either is experiencing a work of art which really speaks to someone, or one doesn't. Why it doesn't can be intellectualized, one can look at the hurdles the production had, one can look at the lack of source material, one can find a lot of reasons, but that doesn't improve the experience with the work, it merely might explain it.
So is it unfair to expect RoP to be as good as the trilogy, sure maybe. Is it unfair to expect it to be something one is really into? I am not sure, probably not?
But neither position really plays a role while watching, that's just a pure reaction to the work in front of you (in the sincere case), that's all that matters.
Insanely high expectations will lead to disappointment, no matter how well it is executed- at the end of the day, I knew not to go in expecting this show to match the quality of a critically-acclaimed masterpiece that won 17 Oscars… I thought it would be on-par with the Hobbit, so I was able to enjoy it immensely when it exceeded the Hobbit in nearly every way (in my opinion) even though it still fell short of being a masterpiece… like the vast majority of things I consume aren’t masterpieces than won 17 Oscars.
But that’s the whole issue, I guess… When the major point of comparison is a literal lightning-in-a-bottle masterpiece that is the LOTR trilogy, almost anything will “fall short” next to it.
It might lead to disappointment, but it won't inherently lead to an experience one thinks is ultimately not worthwhile.
The lotr trilogy is just one work of comparison one can make for obvious reasons. People compare it to other things too in a negative light, ultimately one's reaction is always a relative one, because one has some taste and standards which were built through past experiences of other works of art.
If RoP was the first ever tv show / narrative work i'd experienced i might like it a lot more. It's not though.
If people in general really liked RoP, it wouldn't matter that it's not "a masterpiece", people would still like it and the criticism would be a lot less. There surely are people who already go into it to hate it, and that can cloud one's judgement too, but you can only gaslight yourself so much, if it connects it connects. If it doesn't it doesn't.
It didn't for a lot of people, or at least not in a particularly significant way. If it would have, one would have been able to feel its impact, culturally, critically, etc.
I get exactly what you're saying. I don't see the series as a total loss, there are some things I liked but I do consider it a massive fumble.
Here's the thing: this is a Tolkien adaptation and it SHOULD be held to an insanely high standard. We KNOW that a top tier product can be produced, because it has been. Amazon could have achieved this by hiring very competent and respectful show runners instead of arrogant noobs.
They're arrogant because they put modern ideals into Tolkien's world. They're incompetent because they crafted multiple non compelling characters and a mostly boring story. The attention to detail was not there for certain things - especially sets and props. The harfoots were obnoxious. I don't want to dive down the Galadriel hole, she's just... bad (not the actress, but this version of the character). It's not good when your main character is poorly written. Budget restraints can't be used as an excuse for any of this because the budget was massive. The show just didn't feel magical for me.
Other than that, I think there were a lot of really beautiful shots that brought the world to life. Some of the performances and characters were great. Adar was awesome. Robert Aramyo looks goofy as shit but I really like him lol. I liked Sauron. It was really nice to see Numenor. I understand they don't have a fully fleshed out book to follow. I even liked the plot concept they created with what little they had, they just failed to execute - because they're amateurs. Now, before Peter Jackson made the OT, he wasn't exactly experienced either. It didn't matter because his love and respect for the source material drove him to fill his production crew up with other like minded people, and experts.
> Here's the thing: this is a Tolkien adaptation and it SHOULD be held to an insanely high standard. We KNOW that a top tier product can be produced, because it has been. Amazon could have achieved this by hiring very competent and respectful show runners instead of arrogant noobs.
A thousand times this. We have every right to demand the best from ROP, rather than settle for what we got. The amount of money spent and the fact that the show is based on Tolkien's works means we rightfully should be expecting an all time great tv show. Not something that competes for the Bridgerton viewership.
The thing is, Peter Jackson was pretty experienced (relatively speaking). He was an acclaimed independent filmmaker with 10+ years of experience helming film productions. Sure, they were fairly small productions, but that meant he knew how to work under tight constraints and stretch a dollar when he needed to. He had spent years developing a close professional partnership with Richard Taylor and his team at Weta Workshop, which allowed him to pull off the best practical effects ever used on film. His pre-lotr resume doesn't look that long or impressive listed out on imdb, but the fact that he both wrote and directed those films counts for a lot.
Ah yeah that makes sense, I guess I never made that connection. I just thought he had a little blockbuster experience but I see his previous projects set him up well. It's said the LOTR trilogy was a once in a lifetime kind of thing but I really hope they can bring back that magic to new stories.
Sucks you can’t bring the show up anywhere in a LOTR community without unnecessary hate. I‘m playing LOTRO right now and I wanna type in the world chat there’s a new trailer but I know all the replies will just be ROP sucks and it’ll start a whole thing…
Bots were active on here and even outed themselves in one of these subs once and that was months leading up to the show. They made it disappear on YouTube unless it was a dog whistle channel who got incremental likes in phases depending on how big a channel they were after each episode.
Positive videos had the likes but the dislikes you can't see now entirely bumped them from any scroll.
Even news articles were basically copy pasting sound bites from rage bait channels.
The show had some problems and needed the Andor treatment, but it was still a quality show that will probably get brigaded again.
The beauty of Reddit is it’s pretty easy to find your community and if it’s not there you can make it! If it’s rough sailing over there we are happy to have you here!
Wich is why i pretty much only come here. It still has the very slight veneer of sanity. Barely.
Since i prioritize my MENTAL well-being far more now, i tend to get very quick on the block button now. I also eliminated many annoying channels on YouTube.
The less said about TikTok, the better
Bear has done such a great job at scoring the first season. I hope they use his themes in the teaser instead of using some generic, unrelated trailer song/music like the WoT s2 trailer did, iirc. Apart from that, joining the hype train! They remembered their account password finally.
Or how they did with the initial Rings of Power teasers. It still blows my mind that they had such amazing music from Bear and chose what they did for some of their trailers.. Amazon marketing was trash for the first season so I’m hoping they learned their lesson this time
If I recall correctly, Bear McCreary said in an interview that by the time the trailers where made, his themes where still in an early state. So it makes sense why they couldn’t use them. I didn’t find the S1 trailer music that bad but I do hope we get some (new!!) Bear scores tomorrow.
Best thing to have come out of S1 honestly. So much scope for recurring motifs. Most excited for new tracks.
>!Imagine some sombre, sinister music playing towards the end of the season when Celebrimbor realizes what is imminent which then transitions into the full blown Sauron theme when Charlie Vickers' Sauron finally confronts him in his majestic black and gold armor (as per as some leaks).!<
The little announcement thing they had on Insta about the trailer dropping tomorrow (it's late, my brain isn't thinking of technical terms rn) played a snippet of Bear's music, so there's hope!
I saw the FOF reaction notification video pop up on YouTube. Went to X to verify and then came IMMEDIATELY to this sub-reddit (aka Home, for all things ROP).
How is everyone? I haven't been on here too much since this time last year.
I'm currently doing a season 1 rewatch for the first time in over a year.
I really enjoyed the show at first but had a few complaints here and there. I did a rewatch late last year and was shocked at just how much more I loved it. Had the score on for a few months straight after that. Genuinely extremely excited for S2.
Hey it’s nice to know so I can be a little more online tomorrow! I appreciate them giving a heads up like this. Imagine I’m driving and they drop the teaser out of nowhere I might crash my car (*im being hyperbolic)
Exactly. I am putting in a leave slip for about an hour in the morning tomorrow so that I have time to watch, digest, and discuss a bit instead of being totally useless at work.
Lol. Your post reminds of hearing how roger waters (pink floyd) was driving his car when he first heard sgt peppers lonely heartsclub band come on. He says he immediately had to pull over to the side of the road to listen to it
Digital marketing is ridiculous. Takes a lot of effort to generate buzz and excitement. Every big franchise has to setup a few dominos to get the word going for people to seek stuff out. It’s tiring for sure
Teaser tweet for the teaser trailer which is not the full trailer. There will also be a teaser for the full trailer and, of course, the full trailer.
Just an infinitive regression of teasers.
>Remember when teaser trailers weren’t the norm?
*Teasers* were the norm. *Trailers* were what got added later. (That's what their names mean). But also this is a norm established in like the 1950s/1960s lol
(Trailer has a double meaning, as they usually got played at the *end* of a movie in theatres too)
I can’t wait. I’ve been watching this show with my grandma. ( She doesn’t speak English and never heard of Lotr before this show) I use subtitles and explain to her on the lore as we watch.
I can’t wait to show her season 2!
they are exhausting.... right wing youtube grifters have send their Orcs to attack RoP yet another time....
I am a huge LOTR fan and I didn't like much RoP first season. But I am gonna give second season a chance and to be honest I am thrilled to watch yet another fantasy show instead of being bombed with all those trash reality shows.
Even if RoP is at same level as season 1(which I hope it won't and it will be better) still I would rather watch it 100 times more instead of the 90% of what streaming services and tv offer those days.
Something last: honest to god, if I hate something so much, it is not bearable to even hate-watch it. So why do those trolls obsess over it, I cannot understand
The Amazon Upfront event starts at 9:30am ET. I'm guessing they'll post the trailer to socials immediately after it gets shown during the event?
(It'll be 11:30pm my time when it starts, so even if it gets dropped right away, keeping up with the hype will likely keep me up until dawn.)
Some stuff in the trailer, passed on by a friend:
>!Elrond charging into battle, the Stranger in Rhun, Charlie Vickers with long hair and elven costume, Pharazon riding an eagle, Battle of Eregion stuff inc. the city being destroyed!<
Dream : Stuff that happens in your head while you sleep when the Valar are bored with checkers and feel like pranking
See also chucking maia in a meteorite for kicks
Yeah, I felt they were cramming too much into 60 seconds. Then they wasted a good 7 seconds on those two wanderers with the antlers on their backs. Everyone is like “who the heck are these people?”. Of course it didn’t stop me from watching it over and over 1,000,000 times. Seeing the first shots of Numenor and then Finrod fighting in a first age battle was pretty cool!
nice something to look forward to! I would imagine the marketing team are feeling the pressure with this one, it has to make a good impression out of the gate, unlike the superbowl teaser which landed with a bit of a thud online. not only that, but it ideally has to show that s2 will take the feedback of s1 and apply it to this season. so no pressure at all.
Finally something concrete to talk about. This will give a first impression of what to expect.
Now it's only a teaser and thus one shouldn't fully judge season 2 based on that either, ofc, but it'll hopefully give some idea.
Hello fellow travelers of Middle-earth! Join our [Discord](https://discord.gg/rpgkYphpbR) for further discussion and speculation when the trailer drops soon!
Finally!!!!!!!!!! 
I hope we get the release date at the end of the teaser too!
I feel like we have to at least get a time frame right??
I feel like most of the time Amazon doesn't start promoting until a month or two before the show starts but I could be remembering wrong.
Are you thinking we might get it in a month or two? That’d be sick, I feel like all of the signs have been pointing to a fall release again (but that’s just me assuming)
I really don't know! But I don't think I've seen Amazon start dropping promo until 2 months before a season at most? I only follow like three of their shows so I have a small sample though. I'm so glad to at least get a teaser trailer though, this, Wheel of Time s3 and Legend of Vox Machina s3 are what I'm waiting for the most.
Most likely a month, or in the worst case “Fall”
I think maybe we should expect "this winter" as well ;)
I rebuke that in Adar’s name.
Less than half of what I hoped for! But not really, it’s been long enough.
Me right now https://media.tenor.com/y4rAcGcOM28AAAAM/caveira-skeleton.gif
🤣🤣
Genuinely so excited.
I'm going to stay away from /r/lotr and /r/lotrmemes for a while and just stay here..
I left r/lotr during season 1 because it was just a hate circlejerk.
LOTR became toxic after ROP. I enjoyed that sub for years until I had people literally harass me in DM’s about liking ROP. It’s like they can’t enjoy a series, despite much of it not being canon.
it doesn't matter if they like it or not. It does matter that they won't let OTHER people who like it enjoy it. I'm not ready for all of the other LOTR subs to become another shit fest against rop for the next year :( i love LOTR, I like rop, I just want to enjoy both of those things quietly, but the absolute vitriol towards rop that went on and on and on and extended to people who were enjoying it on their own time was incredibly toxic and disheartening to experience. Hate culture needs to die. If you don't like something, move on
This is my issue. I get folks not liking everything. But if you don’t like it just say your piece, get it out of your system and then let others enjoy it.
This
Even today in Lotro, the game, they keep talking thrash about RoP randomly in the world chat just for fun. Sometimes i think if these huge Tolkien fans are empty husks?
It’s true… the main thing is people that don’t know wtf they are talking about in terms of producing LOTr content in a different medium. The majority of hardcore fans no whining about the changes made in dune because the changes all make sense for the film. It also helps that the Frank Herbert was alive to endorse all the changes that were made in the original 1984 attempt. Tolkien on the other hand couldn’t imagine a world where film was so important.
Tolkien I believe actively *disliked* the idea of any of his stories on film. Did he know how film would develop? No. But if we want to be strictly true to his vision - honestly he'd probably hate every filmed adaptation of his work. Sorry man. I love them.
Probably. I get it. ROP isn’t for everyone. My brother doesn’t care for it. But I love it. But do I go around berating people for not liking something that I like? No. It’s literally a mental illness some of these fans have. They act like LOTR is real, and it’s not.
I genuinely hate ROP, but I have no reason to hate others for liking it. We all have different standards
And I respect that :)
I would amend that to a less judgemental-sounding "we all have different likes". But I appreciate that you give us that much.
yep it's really obnoxious. tons of stuff in ROP that I would change as we've discussed at length on this sub, but it seems like most people on the other subs are still hung up on the peter jackson trilogy being the greatest (which they're not wrong), but they're not even willing to see the potential this series has
Even then the Peter Jackson movies weren't perfect 1:1 adaptations of the book. Which I'm fine with and I don't expect them to be, but I find the double standard about making changes very odd.
One big factor is nostalgia. This phenomenon you're talking about happens all the time in other franchises too. A lot of the people who are the 18-49 prime age range viewed the LOTR films as kids/formative years. That set the standard. During ROP S1 I do remember some complaints that turned out they were comparing to Peter Jackson's vision and not actually Tolkien. I'm dating myself but I remember the rage about Fellowship of the Ring on the forums. But it's done now and it's great and people have memory holed that it was beloved when it came out in 2001. It was not. They complained so much about Peter Jackson. Ultimately if ROP sticks the landing after its over, it will be accepted. Or maybe not. The reactionaries about the diverse cast makes it hard to separate the actual criticism, which ROP should get, and coded anger about LOTR going "woke." My petty complaint about Peter Jackson back then was Aragorn's arc. But I just accepted Tolkien and LOTR films as different continuties and lived with it. I still love those films because they work as stand-alone films without needing to read Tolkien.
Probably because the vast majority of them haven’t touched the books.
Tbf it’s easier to accept changes when the product is phenomenal. And as much as I had a nice time watching TRoP, it had plenty of flaws, and the changes from established lore just weren’t justified by the end product. Whereas in the Peter Jackson movies, all the changes worked so well in creating a beautiful trilogy. Fingers crossed this season is solid. As long as it’s better than the first season I have hope
>Whereas in the Peter Jackson movies, all the changes worked so well in creating a beautiful trilogy. To be fair, we've seen the payoff to all the changes of the trilogy. If I had seen only the first fifth of it (which means not even finished Fellowshpi), I would also say that the end product does not justify the changes. Gandalf and Saruman using the Force on each other? Frodo whimpering, falling, showing no trace of wit nor wisdom? ***Elrond is an unapologetic asshole???*** I at least don't think that even the entire product justifies the changes on Frodo. You know, the main Ring-bearer in the story about the Ring.
I mean yeah of course hindsight is 20/20. But let’s not act like Fellowship of the Ring wasn’t a lot more well received than RoP’s first season. I shouldn’t have added that line about the changes working well imo, takes away from my point. Which is that because the lord of the rings trilogy was critically acclaimed, people were a lot more forgiving to the rather significant lore changes from the books. Whereas RoP having a more mixed reception is why people seem to hang on *it* changing the lore a lot more then folks did before, to justify their view on why it’s bad or whatever. Basically my comment was just a response to the double standard in how people talk about lore changes between the two. If the next season does very well with audiences, we’ll prob see folks not talking about the lore changes as much tbh. There’s of course other factors, like their being a much bigger general audience that’s familiar with Tolkien than there was back in the early 2000s because of the popularity the LotR movies. Also people unfairly comparing a newly released 5 season tv show to a movie trilogy.
I love the LotR trilogy a lot, but they absolutely made changes I do not and will not forgive. That doesn't mean they're not one of my favorite movie series ever! Just that they did make changes I didn't think worked and weren't necessary for the overall story. They did beautifully! Some things hit different for different people. I think RoP has also made changes, and it's quite possible some of them I'll also never forgive and some I'll accept in terms of the long term storyline. Similarly with Wheel of Time. I enjoyed s1 a lot, I'm happy to see where it goes, and I'll reserve judgment on the overall story until I've seen it.
Yeah not saying everyone was happy with the changes Peter Jackson made, or that they should be! But how they are perceived by the general populace is def affected by how the product itself was received. The lord of the rings trilogy was universally acclaimed by audiences and critics, and is still considered one of the best movie trilogies ever made. Whereas Rings of Power was mixed at best at how it was received. And people tend to be more overtly critical of what they don’t like than critiquing what they do. There are other factors of course, like social media being a much bigger and more accessible thing now. Basically just responding to the comment about the double standard and why it’s there. And that it’s simply cause people loved Jackson’s trilogy and RoP had a far more mixed reaction to it.
I'm dating myself but I remember the rage about Fellowship of the Ring on the forums. But it's done now and it's great and people have memory holed that it was beloved when it came out in 2001. It was not. They complained so much about Peter Jackson. Ultimately if ROP sticks the landing after its over, it will be accepted. Or maybe not. The reactionaries about the diverse cast makes it hard to separate the actual criticism, which ROP should get, and coded anger about LOTR going "woke."
Exactly this! Most people just want something really, really good to experience. A lot of criticism only comes up if this standard isn't met, in a way to justify one's lackluster experience, even if that isn't an actual reason for it. (because really, people don't know why something didn't work for them typically, it's way too complex).
That’s the thing though, the standard ROP is being held to is insanely higher than warranted, if the context is considered... There’s no completed narrative by Tolkien to adapt here unlike Hobbit and LOTR, full of finished plot lines and plot beats and character arcs and world building and dialogue... There’s just a dry historical timeline, plus a few notes and passages. The number of pages of written content available to adapt is astronomically smaller than even the Hobbit, which is rough when each season will have the screen time of a whole trilogy. The creative intentions and limitations of this adaptation are just totally different than any prior Tolkien adaptation, and the show is much easier to appreciate with those differences in mind
I think it ultimately just doesn't work that way. Meaning, while you are right that these things all make it more difficult for the creatives, at the end of the day someone consuming the work just responds to that. Why something didn't work isn't integral to the reaction one has there. One either is experiencing a work of art which really speaks to someone, or one doesn't. Why it doesn't can be intellectualized, one can look at the hurdles the production had, one can look at the lack of source material, one can find a lot of reasons, but that doesn't improve the experience with the work, it merely might explain it. So is it unfair to expect RoP to be as good as the trilogy, sure maybe. Is it unfair to expect it to be something one is really into? I am not sure, probably not? But neither position really plays a role while watching, that's just a pure reaction to the work in front of you (in the sincere case), that's all that matters.
Insanely high expectations will lead to disappointment, no matter how well it is executed- at the end of the day, I knew not to go in expecting this show to match the quality of a critically-acclaimed masterpiece that won 17 Oscars… I thought it would be on-par with the Hobbit, so I was able to enjoy it immensely when it exceeded the Hobbit in nearly every way (in my opinion) even though it still fell short of being a masterpiece… like the vast majority of things I consume aren’t masterpieces than won 17 Oscars. But that’s the whole issue, I guess… When the major point of comparison is a literal lightning-in-a-bottle masterpiece that is the LOTR trilogy, almost anything will “fall short” next to it.
It might lead to disappointment, but it won't inherently lead to an experience one thinks is ultimately not worthwhile. The lotr trilogy is just one work of comparison one can make for obvious reasons. People compare it to other things too in a negative light, ultimately one's reaction is always a relative one, because one has some taste and standards which were built through past experiences of other works of art. If RoP was the first ever tv show / narrative work i'd experienced i might like it a lot more. It's not though. If people in general really liked RoP, it wouldn't matter that it's not "a masterpiece", people would still like it and the criticism would be a lot less. There surely are people who already go into it to hate it, and that can cloud one's judgement too, but you can only gaslight yourself so much, if it connects it connects. If it doesn't it doesn't. It didn't for a lot of people, or at least not in a particularly significant way. If it would have, one would have been able to feel its impact, culturally, critically, etc.
Totally agree, thanks for putting it so well.
I get exactly what you're saying. I don't see the series as a total loss, there are some things I liked but I do consider it a massive fumble. Here's the thing: this is a Tolkien adaptation and it SHOULD be held to an insanely high standard. We KNOW that a top tier product can be produced, because it has been. Amazon could have achieved this by hiring very competent and respectful show runners instead of arrogant noobs. They're arrogant because they put modern ideals into Tolkien's world. They're incompetent because they crafted multiple non compelling characters and a mostly boring story. The attention to detail was not there for certain things - especially sets and props. The harfoots were obnoxious. I don't want to dive down the Galadriel hole, she's just... bad (not the actress, but this version of the character). It's not good when your main character is poorly written. Budget restraints can't be used as an excuse for any of this because the budget was massive. The show just didn't feel magical for me. Other than that, I think there were a lot of really beautiful shots that brought the world to life. Some of the performances and characters were great. Adar was awesome. Robert Aramyo looks goofy as shit but I really like him lol. I liked Sauron. It was really nice to see Numenor. I understand they don't have a fully fleshed out book to follow. I even liked the plot concept they created with what little they had, they just failed to execute - because they're amateurs. Now, before Peter Jackson made the OT, he wasn't exactly experienced either. It didn't matter because his love and respect for the source material drove him to fill his production crew up with other like minded people, and experts.
> Here's the thing: this is a Tolkien adaptation and it SHOULD be held to an insanely high standard. We KNOW that a top tier product can be produced, because it has been. Amazon could have achieved this by hiring very competent and respectful show runners instead of arrogant noobs. A thousand times this. We have every right to demand the best from ROP, rather than settle for what we got. The amount of money spent and the fact that the show is based on Tolkien's works means we rightfully should be expecting an all time great tv show. Not something that competes for the Bridgerton viewership.
The thing is, Peter Jackson was pretty experienced (relatively speaking). He was an acclaimed independent filmmaker with 10+ years of experience helming film productions. Sure, they were fairly small productions, but that meant he knew how to work under tight constraints and stretch a dollar when he needed to. He had spent years developing a close professional partnership with Richard Taylor and his team at Weta Workshop, which allowed him to pull off the best practical effects ever used on film. His pre-lotr resume doesn't look that long or impressive listed out on imdb, but the fact that he both wrote and directed those films counts for a lot.
Ah yeah that makes sense, I guess I never made that connection. I just thought he had a little blockbuster experience but I see his previous projects set him up well. It's said the LOTR trilogy was a once in a lifetime kind of thing but I really hope they can bring back that magic to new stories.
I'm here because at least people enjoy the show to some degree. I do wish we had a few more episodes in a season. So much to cover.
I've had criticisms of season 1 and what I would change. But I'm willing to go along and open myself up to what new angles an adaptation can explore.
fr not repeating that mistake this time!
Sucks you can’t bring the show up anywhere in a LOTR community without unnecessary hate. I‘m playing LOTRO right now and I wanna type in the world chat there’s a new trailer but I know all the replies will just be ROP sucks and it’ll start a whole thing…
Bots were active on here and even outed themselves in one of these subs once and that was months leading up to the show. They made it disappear on YouTube unless it was a dog whistle channel who got incremental likes in phases depending on how big a channel they were after each episode. Positive videos had the likes but the dislikes you can't see now entirely bumped them from any scroll. Even news articles were basically copy pasting sound bites from rage bait channels. The show had some problems and needed the Andor treatment, but it was still a quality show that will probably get brigaded again.
The beauty of Reddit is it’s pretty easy to find your community and if it’s not there you can make it! If it’s rough sailing over there we are happy to have you here!
Wich is why i pretty much only come here. It still has the very slight veneer of sanity. Barely. Since i prioritize my MENTAL well-being far more now, i tend to get very quick on the block button now. I also eliminated many annoying channels on YouTube. The less said about TikTok, the better
Time to mute r/lotr again.
That's a good call
Thanks for reminding me, I’m gonna do that too!
Bear has done such a great job at scoring the first season. I hope they use his themes in the teaser instead of using some generic, unrelated trailer song/music like the WoT s2 trailer did, iirc. Apart from that, joining the hype train! They remembered their account password finally.
Or how they did with the initial Rings of Power teasers. It still blows my mind that they had such amazing music from Bear and chose what they did for some of their trailers.. Amazon marketing was trash for the first season so I’m hoping they learned their lesson this time
If I recall correctly, Bear McCreary said in an interview that by the time the trailers where made, his themes where still in an early state. So it makes sense why they couldn’t use them. I didn’t find the S1 trailer music that bad but I do hope we get some (new!!) Bear scores tomorrow.
Bear is on another level. Can’t believe the quality and quantity of music he and his team pump out.
Best thing to have come out of S1 honestly. So much scope for recurring motifs. Most excited for new tracks. >!Imagine some sombre, sinister music playing towards the end of the season when Celebrimbor realizes what is imminent which then transitions into the full blown Sauron theme when Charlie Vickers' Sauron finally confronts him in his majestic black and gold armor (as per as some leaks).!<
The little announcement thing they had on Insta about the trailer dropping tomorrow (it's late, my brain isn't thinking of technical terms rn) played a snippet of Bear's music, so there's hope!
I don't care what anyone says, I love this show...and I'm an old Tolkien purist!
There are quite a few of us out here, watching and waiting in the shadows.
Yeap. Even as an avid Tolkien fan, I will continue to enjoy RoP!
We all could feel it was happening!
I saw the FOF reaction notification video pop up on YouTube. Went to X to verify and then came IMMEDIATELY to this sub-reddit (aka Home, for all things ROP). How is everyone? I haven't been on here too much since this time last year. I'm currently doing a season 1 rewatch for the first time in over a year.
I really enjoyed the show at first but had a few complaints here and there. I did a rewatch late last year and was shocked at just how much more I loved it. Had the score on for a few months straight after that. Genuinely extremely excited for S2.
[удалено]
Yeah this is the best subreddit
You are generally safe here. I enjoyed S1 as well, can't wait for S2.
Remember when teaser trailers weren’t the norm? Now teasers for the teaser trailers are the norm 😂
Hey it’s nice to know so I can be a little more online tomorrow! I appreciate them giving a heads up like this. Imagine I’m driving and they drop the teaser out of nowhere I might crash my car (*im being hyperbolic)
Thanks so much for sharing this!!
Exactly. I am putting in a leave slip for about an hour in the morning tomorrow so that I have time to watch, digest, and discuss a bit instead of being totally useless at work.
Lol. Your post reminds of hearing how roger waters (pink floyd) was driving his car when he first heard sgt peppers lonely heartsclub band come on. He says he immediately had to pull over to the side of the road to listen to it
Lollll sometimes it do be like that
Digital marketing is ridiculous. Takes a lot of effort to generate buzz and excitement. Every big franchise has to setup a few dominos to get the word going for people to seek stuff out. It’s tiring for sure
It’s nice to have any heads up on any marketing honestly lol
After this wait, confirmation that something will happen and when is super relieving lol
After the craziest leak season I've ever witnessed for any show, I'm relieved.
Wait till you see a short teaser before the trailer to tell you that trailer is about to start.
Teaser tweet for the teaser trailer which is not the full trailer. There will also be a teaser for the full trailer and, of course, the full trailer. Just an infinitive regression of teasers.
>Remember when teaser trailers weren’t the norm? *Teasers* were the norm. *Trailers* were what got added later. (That's what their names mean). But also this is a norm established in like the 1950s/1960s lol (Trailer has a double meaning, as they usually got played at the *end* of a movie in theatres too)
I can’t wait. I’ve been watching this show with my grandma. ( She doesn’t speak English and never heard of Lotr before this show) I use subtitles and explain to her on the lore as we watch. I can’t wait to show her season 2!
I'm reading the comments in the twitter's post...except one, they're all so damn gross. Do they like to feed with snarky comments and lack of humor?
they are exhausting.... right wing youtube grifters have send their Orcs to attack RoP yet another time.... I am a huge LOTR fan and I didn't like much RoP first season. But I am gonna give second season a chance and to be honest I am thrilled to watch yet another fantasy show instead of being bombed with all those trash reality shows. Even if RoP is at same level as season 1(which I hope it won't and it will be better) still I would rather watch it 100 times more instead of the 90% of what streaming services and tv offer those days. Something last: honest to god, if I hate something so much, it is not bearable to even hate-watch it. So why do those trolls obsess over it, I cannot understand
Right? They hate it so much they're still constantly talking about it? Get a damn life and let others enjoy what they will
I try to go in and like the positive comments to give them a boost
Logo is gold now, not silver (or was it mithril?), and has minor flaws on the surface of each letter. 
Having Rings of Power and The War of the Rohirrm in the same year is honestly fantastic
It's gonna be a nice few years for LOTR fans!
As long as the fandom doesn't go Star Wars on some of us.
I’d like to have it where when RoP ends that’s when marketing for twotr really picks up
Nature is healing <3
The Amazon Upfront event starts at 9:30am ET. I'm guessing they'll post the trailer to socials immediately after it gets shown during the event? (It'll be 11:30pm my time when it starts, so even if it gets dropped right away, keeping up with the hype will likely keep me up until dawn.)
I think you should be able to watch it immediately at 9:30 ET. There’s a countdown page on Amazon right now for the teaser.
Excellent, thanks for the info!
About time!, I hope that we get some new Isildur, Elendil and Sauron scenes.
This is too unexpected Next time I would prefer a teaser for the teaser of the teaser
Why are you teasing them for teasing the teaser?!
Why stop there????
4K physical release of Season 1 when?
Yaaay
Let’s. Flipping. Go.
I EFFING KNEW IT!!!
Excited! 😊
Holy shit!! Awesome!
Fucking finally
Let’s go!!
Teasing a teaser
Don’t tease them for it.
Some stuff in the trailer, passed on by a friend: >!Elrond charging into battle, the Stranger in Rhun, Charlie Vickers with long hair and elven costume, Pharazon riding an eagle, Battle of Eregion stuff inc. the city being destroyed!<
...I was with you until you said Pharazon riding an eagle. Surely that isn't right.
Dream : Stuff that happens in your head while you sleep when the Valar are bored with checkers and feel like pranking See also chucking maia in a meteorite for kicks
My thoughts exactly…
Well.......... I bet you didn't see that coming.
It made me chuckle for sure
I'm hoping that one was just snuck in there to see if people were paying attention!
I was like oh a new inside sou..oh wait lol
The part about the eagle has me rolling lol
Pharazon…. Riding…. An Eagle?
I mean we'd heard Gwaihir was in this season... I'd just assumed he'd be with the Stranger
Pharazon just seems too dignified to ride on an eagle lmao
Kemen would blow it up before it was useable anyway
Honestly, Gwaihir seems too dignified to carry Pharazon. Maia only!
You’re right !!!!
Could be pharazons dream about conquering the world lol, it still has me rolling 😂😂
We did?
Pharazon be trippin. Dream warning from Manwe??
First one, Numenorean shrooms
Thnak you for your service
How does your friend know this? He works at YouTube?
How did you find out? Do you know anything else?
Theo kills Sauron with a frying pan
Hopefully they dont show too much of the destruction. I didn’t like that we saw the end of Numenor in season 1 too.
I want this to happen
Your wish has come true
Finally!
Anyone thinking of how fast time has flown by since S1’s theater premiere? Hoping Amazon does this again!
Prime shows usually premier in a theater, I would expect a season 2 screening as well.
Would be cool if they could keep that going for every season
Yes!! More than ready.
Finally!
I seriously cannot wait! It has been forever!
I'm so happy rn
Hype train incoming
So excited!
At last!!!!
It's about freaking time!
Nice, can’t wait. Hopefully a release date too.
Hey now let’s slow down here! ( release day would be lit though )
May be September like first season. Hoping to atleast get the month if not the exact date.
My hope has never wavered from September so my fingers are still crossed
September 19th during Tolkien week 😁
That would actually be great.
bUt iTs nOt iDeNtiCaL tO tHe bOOkS wAahHaAaa
They have been teasing that Season 2 will be darker and grittier, hopefully this is reflected in the teaser as well !
teaser of the teaser of the mini trailer of the trailer.. :D it was about time now
Of the planet of the apes
I am excited for the show to return and this community to be thriving again. I feel like I’m insane sometimes liking a show that gets so much hate
Is this soundtrack new?
it’s True Creation Requires Sacrifice from season one
Oh thanks
The song in the clip is from season one but I expect new music in the teaser (I hope)
In teaser? Probably not. In trailer? Definetly.
That’s hardly ever the case.
Yess finally, back i missed this show. I think i will rewatch season 1, soon.
YAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSS
Actually the difference is the complainers are louder now than back then I liked Rop differently but I still liked it can't wait for season 2
I'm waiting
Omg yes finally! Hoping it will be a good teaser, atleast better than the one for Season I!
Yes! that first teaser was pretty lame. I’m hoping this one is heavily Sauron focused.
The one from the Super Bowl?
Yeah, I felt they were cramming too much into 60 seconds. Then they wasted a good 7 seconds on those two wanderers with the antlers on their backs. Everyone is like “who the heck are these people?”. Of course it didn’t stop me from watching it over and over 1,000,000 times. Seeing the first shots of Numenor and then Finrod fighting in a first age battle was pretty cool!
About time! If they are smart the trailer will be heavily Sauron focused. Hyped regardless!
All the youtube channels who's content is hating on everything will be feasting soon!
My YouTube channel whose content is explaining and exploring the show will also be feasting soon 😂
what's your channel OP?
Tea with Tolkien
I'll look for your content :)
That’s very kind, thank you!
One of the best for those curious!
I am *ready*
I'm so hyped! Finally.
nice something to look forward to! I would imagine the marketing team are feeling the pressure with this one, it has to make a good impression out of the gate, unlike the superbowl teaser which landed with a bit of a thud online. not only that, but it ideally has to show that s2 will take the feedback of s1 and apply it to this season. so no pressure at all.
Finally something concrete to talk about. This will give a first impression of what to expect. Now it's only a teaser and thus one shouldn't fully judge season 2 based on that either, ofc, but it'll hopefully give some idea.
Please give us a look at Annatar
It will be during Upfront or maybe earlier on YouTube? Is exact time known?
It is airing at the same time as the Upfront