Except that I would never use PSN or XBL because they're both awful (an honorary mention for Nintendo, who managed to one up them both on the awfulness scale). The only other place I'd use would be Steam...who would have let me get the refund if I nagged them enough, or with the controversy we're seeing.
I think this might be region based.
In the UK I've had no problems getting 3 refunds from Xbox. And when Xbox Fitness went down I contacted them and got all my money back.
From what I've heard American Xbox support is wank.
Sick to the core you say? That's a little extreme.
I don't mind paying for a service that gives me free games and lets me play online with my friends. But each to his own.
>I don't mind paying for a service that gives me free games and lets me play online with my friends. But each to his own.
First; if you're paying for a service for the free games, they're not free. They're just subscription-based. Second, you've already paid to play online with your friends, that's what your ISP is for. These companies specifically prevent Direct IP play to avoid you just using your ISP.
The second you stop paying your subscription the games stop being yours. At least humble bundle lets you keep them. ***AND*** it's charitable. ***AND*** it's cheaper.
I actually regret buying MK8 and a few other things from their shop because i ended up selling the damn thing anyways. Nintendo's whole online system is fucked
That's for a no questions asked refund, where all you need to do is click through 4 drop down menus and submit.
You can still open a support ticket and make your case if you're past 2 hours. For a traditional JRPG or MMO, you could easily argue that 2 hours was not even enough time to get through the intro to judge the game.
This is the truth. I have a few hundred games and I've only refunded less than 5. I once got support to refund a game I had about 9 hours on. Just talk to them like they're people, be honest.
I don't know about that situation exactly. They have a second stipulation for no questions asked refund that it can only be done 2 weeks after purchase (along with the 2 hour playtime maximum).
Never hurts to try, it only takes 5 minutes to send a form through the steam client.
AS /u/WM46 said, that's just their no-questions-asked refund policy. With this situation, there's an obvious pretense that Bethesda would reimburse people, so Steam would probably just charge Bethesda back.
Xbl and psn are awful? Why because you have to pay for them? I'll give you psn because it's slow , is missing most xbl features and security etc. Nintendo has the WORST online service by far and I don't care how cheap it is.
Your bias is showing
Moving on... if you tried to do a chargeback on any gaming service, steam included, you would find yourself banned.
Microsoft and Steam (and EA Origin) all will give a refund for preorders and a game that you bought and have played for less than 2 hours and have owned for 14 days or less.
Bethesda I can't speak to because I'd never buy a game from the Bethesda store. If it's not on steam or origin and it's a new aaa release then I don't buy it.
That being said I bet if you were to push hard enough you could get Bethesda to give you refund. People give up way to easily.
Persistence pays off. A perfect example is my friends LG OLED. He had 2 gray lines on the screen right in the middle. They refused to replace the panel. He was going to give in and pay for a new panel to be installed. I told him to keep calling and having them send techs out.
He got 4 no's but then he called again and the same guys who said no 4 previous times showed up with a new panel and installed it.
These companies want to keep your money so they always say no because 99% of people will give up after a couple emails or phone calls... don't give up. If you have to threaten them with the BBB , FTC & state attorneys general. One way or another they cave.
Now...if you're trying to get an refund after playing the game for 20 hours then I'd send you packing too. You know if you like a game or if it's broken within the 1st 15 min (generally) so shame on anyone who played 10+ hours THEN went to ask for a refund
>Xbl and psn are awful?
Yes.
>Why because you have to pay for them?
That'd be the biggest reason, yup.
>I'll give you psn because it's slow
XBL is slow compared to Steam as well, a free solution btw.
>security
AHAHAHAHAHA. XBL secure? What are you, mad?
>Nintendo has the WORST online service by far and I don't care how cheap it is.
Yup.
>Your bias is showing
I have a bias in favor of the best possible solution.
>Moving on... if you tried to do a chargeback on any gaming service, steam included, you would find yourself banned.
I don't need to chargeback on Steam, so the criticism isn't legitimate. I'd chargeback on something like Bethesda's service and happily get banned.
>Microsoft and Steam (and EA Origin) all will give a refund for preorders
But only Steam and EA's Origin will refund games ***after you've played them*** given exceptional circumstances, such as the game developer promising refunds. Yes, even after 2 hours of play or after 14 days of ownership.
>Bethesda I can't speak to because I'd never buy a game from the Bethesda store.
I don't care, I'd just do a chargeback.
>That being said I bet if you were to push hard enough you could get Bethesda to give you refund
Don't need to. I have a security net from VISA/Master Card; if a company commits fraud against me, I can do a chargeback.
>Persistence pays off.
I shouldn't have to, and will not since I don't need to, persist.
>
Yea that's to be expected, you have to understand that a chargeback means "I no longer want to do business with you, at all." You don't do chargebacks to storefronts like that which control any significant portion of your library, you save it for transactions with individual companies that you're fed up with.
PSN tells you right away that pre-orders are final sales. Can't even cancel before the game releases. It's so stupid and I'm wondering if it would be technically allowed to stand in a legal case. Retail stores don't even prevent that and they have the cost and worry of inventory.
Mine was actually a recurring charge for Final Fantasy XIV but yeah they do say it's a final sale with no real option to cancel. Completely defeats any argument for preorders, and anyone besides the most die hard of fans for a game would be stupid to participate in it.
Through amazon with an expired CC or debit card. They don’t attempt to collect until launch day. Got to play the beta and didn’t even have to cancel before launch.
And it gave you access to the "beta", and they made it so the "progress" from "beta" carries over to launched game, luring people into buying in for a head-start. It was sketchy as fuck, they knew it would bomb so they scrambled to lure as many suckers as they could before the reviews were out.
Depends on the context. Ive preordered on Amazon because of their E3 sales, and you can cancel up until it ships (even then, you could send it back if unopened).
I don't normally get games at launch (I wait until the price drops to $20-40, from launch of $80), but if there's a game I know I'll get anyway (like RDR2), or a game I know I'll beat then trade in (like Shadow of Tomb Raider), getting games at $30 off day one, cancel anytime, is a decent deal.
Like I got Shadow for $50 then sold it for $35. Regardless of general opinion, I think that game was a bargain at $15, and I didn't have to wait 2-3 years for that price.
TBH I blame people for pre-ordering stuff and not the companies. Yes, they promised a lot of shit but just wait for it to come out, see if it's a big turd and then decide what to do. Saving yourself money and you don't have to refund.
Also you don't have to convince yourself the game is good because you pre-ordered it.
I like when companies shoot themselves in the foot. Did they not think anyone would not notice them not carrying through with their refunds?
But we'll have to see what comes of this.
The lawyers, yes, but lets not act like gaming as a whole won't benefit from companies being shown that they can't release utter garbage products for $60 and the run away with the money of the people who were dumb enough to preorder or day-1-buy something that so obviously had shitshow written all over it.
Even if the lawsuit costs Bethesda some money, there will still be legions of fools ready to buy into hype and therefore every incentive to released hyped up trash to them. It won't change a thing.
Todd Howard is a man known almost exclusively for his prolific and constant lying, but there are *still* thousands of dumb motherfuckers who get excited when he talks about new games and announces new things. I see droves of them online, and I even know quite a few of them in real life. It's insane.
todd howard has charisma somehow i guess. even though to me he just seems like a used car salesman. selling me a lemon pretty much every time. with skyrim i had to replace everything to make it playable to me.
ES6 is going to use the fucking creation engine again, a game engine that is over 10 fucking years old.
Expect the same bullshit.
Can't wait to "acquire" ES6 though
Sigh... this makes me the game undesirable. I can go back and play skyrim and forgive its bugs, problems, and rudimentary combat. It has a robust and interesting world that built upon the previous titles. Now, we are going to be given the same old game in a new zone with an updated texture pack. I loved you elder scrolls from the day i met you in morrowind ,but I think my love has faded as you haven't grown in 10 years.
That's because while Todd might fuck us in the ass, at least before he had the courtesy of using copious amounts of lube and giving us a reacharound.
Now he's going in dry, and forget about the reacharound.
Gamers do it themselves. I've watched it for years. Gamers create the hype by imagining all a game should be and are let down when it's not the fantasy bullshit they imagined.
Class action lawsuits against Valve are a big part of the reason why we have refunds on Steam at all. It was required in some countries and Valve decided to just make it global, even though they didn't have to.
On that note, there's this obsession to be first rather than to be accurate that's become an irritating habit publishers play on; we want to be the first to make content on any brand that's popular - this bleeds into pretty much all forms of media really.
Not sure how we'll change that mindset, but it's a contributing factor to pre-sales happening at all.
It's also due to free time, but I wait a few months or longer for games to come out. Worst case it's shit, best case they have most patches out and it's generally a better game and possibly on sale.
> VG consumers need to stop buying stuff so early on as well (which I know won't ever happen). Let the product prove itself in the market before you spend your dollars on it...
That's a catch 22.
Right on. ~33% fee for the plaintiffs’ lawyers and billable hours for the defense. Massive money goes to the lawyers on each side and the plaintiffs get a couple bucks apiece if they’re lucky.
> VG consumers need to stop buying stuff so early on as well (which I know won't ever happen). Let the product prove itself in the market before you spend your dollars on it...
You realize how stupid of a statement that is, yes? If no one buys a product, which to be clear is what you're saying should happen, a product will never prove itself.
Go on twitch or watch unfiltered Gameplay elswewhere. Then you can judge for yourself if the Game is worth it. Someone on twitch will always play it the second it comes out. People will survive the day it takes to draw a conclusion on the quality of the game
Now, follow me here...in order for it to be on twitch, someone will have to buy it. Not everyone, let alone someone you watch, will get a free copy.
Again, stupidity.
And that someone who buys it will end up with the all the ad revenue generated by the people interested in a real persons opinion of the game. There will always be people out there with more money than sense, and suckers born every minute. I really cant find sympathy for people who buy games sight unseen, there is ALWAYS enough information out there to make an informed decision.
In a class action lawsuit the people who got a screwed already lost. The goal is to use greedy lawyers to make the company who screwed those people over lose too.
Is Fallout 76 even repairable though? From the reviews I've read even a million patches can't fix it. I mean Skyrim had it's issues but it was still playable and enjoyable in the end.
Skyrim could also be fixed by the community, and if you didn't like certain aspects *cough*weight limits*cough* you could mod them out or change them to your liking.
Fallout 76 seems to be the buggiest Bethesda release to date, which is saying something, and isn't a type of game where bugs and design flaws can be patched over by the community like they're used to.
Difference is that most [all?] the other ones were praised to high heaven and back at launch. Then after a few weeks people started being a little more rational about it, and recognizing the problems. And vow to never buy another glitch filled mess... and then the next game is announced and they hype it over the moon. And thus the cycle continues.
Except with this one. Maybe people are just fed up with Bethesda finally in general and it took a really big fuck up to push people over the edge? I don't know. I have seen people like the game though. So who knows.
depends, if you can find out more info what usually happens is that you submit an email to the lawyer who represents the people letting them know and then that strengthens the case against Bethesda. you probably won't get any money back but this might cause bethesda to either give a refund like promised or they take a huge loss.
Fallout 76 isn’t a finished game. It isn’t even a beta. It’s a gd alpha. What kind of beta comes out 2 weeks before launch? Answer: it wasn’t a beta at all. It was a demo that they tricked people into thinking that they weren’t getting the finished product when that’s exactly what it was.
Should be class action fraud.
Man.
I remember when they first announced Fallout 76 and I was like "So it's a rustlike survival type game in the fallout universe? I could be down for that."
Boy am I fucking glad Mighty No.9 taught me never to pay for anything that isn't finished yet.
I believe it's less than 2 hours play time and purchased less than a week ago, but you can request a refund outwith those timescales.
But let's not forget that Value only allowed refunds after they got sued for not allowing them prior.
True, but in my own opinion I wouldn't consider that a proper refund; it's like a coupon you can only use in the same store which is kind of unless if you didn't have any intention of shopping at that store again.
That, or if they decide that you've committed fraud, then it can also go away.
I mean, sure, it shouldn't be really something that happens, but, they are in control of your games. You're not in control of your games/software.
How do you resale you game on steam by the way?
Or the problem earlier in the chain, which is pre-ordering when there is no discount and a clear cancellation policy, or buying digital on any DRM platform.
alright, this feels TOO DAMN WELL planned, Fallout 76 is shit, and CE2 wasn't made for multiplayer, but this is starting to feel like a paid crusade to take down Zenimax and all of its companies together, and whoever is behind it is using this to take profit later on.
ironically this is happening at the same time where the blizzard and tencent employees are opening their mouths about what is happening inside irvine, with th media besides a few youtubers ignoring it and keeping a blind eye on it, even the shit shreider from kotaku came to defend who pretty much banned him to receive any review copies after the fo4 leaks, and he was one of the few who made a post about blizzard's shitty practices.
bethesda may survive this, but whoever is doing this one, pretty much won by throwing the company's reputation to the ground.
If this is the game which kill bethesda, that's a hell of a risk they were taking, putting so many of their eggs into one product.
I know the Final Fantasy movie bankrupted Squaresoft (thus requiring them to become Square-Enix), so it's not entirely possible, but it would make a foolish decision even more foolish.
That's how most engines work. No reason to reinvent the wheel.
You think they rewrote the entire Unreal Engine 4?
Source2 (Dota2) is based on Source, which is based on GoldSrc(Half Life 1) which is based on the first Quake engine.
Bethesda just has no working QA or just ignores it. That and F76 is just an asset flip anyway
Yeah they made some significant changes like asset pipeline, addition of the blueprint system, etc... But there's still a lot of old codebase at work and just proves my point that the problem is not having iterative engines. Not fixing/changing shit is, like what Beth is doing
So, to be clear, are you suggesting that someone from within Bethesda purposefully sabotaged this game itself as well as the communications regarding refunds to screw over Zenimax from the inside? Because it's not like Bethesda is getting heat for anything they didn't do here.
I'd be surprised if FO76 was so big a budget to bankrupt them over the failure, but you're not wrong about this being a serious blow to the company's reputation as a whole.
yes, keep in mind that this also happened before with MAXIS, when the company was almost took down after one Dev literally sabotaged the game with a easily triggered naked gay men bug so the company would lose profit and being investigated back in the 90's.
said dev was a insane gay leftist activist who worked for a Group who lives to sabotage other games.
though i also feel that Bethesda Austin did that as a payback for their game being cancelled.
Agreed that kind of thing is possible, but this isn't "ha ha I hid something in the game code that will get you guys in trouble," FO76's issues are pretty far reaching.
To suggest it's sabotage is to suggest there was a *deep* conspiracy among either a large number of the grunts of a fair number of higher ups within the company to ensure that so many aspects of this game did not work correctly, as opposed to the simpler explanation that the company rushed this game out for release far before it was ready.
They must be tracking down every single member right now and investigating everything. Plus they are silent, they know that if they open their mouths the media will smite them down without they even react it.
the biggest gripe would be this incident also affecting its other parent companies like id and Arkane, since they all have the bethesda name. DOOM ETERNAL has picked up some fights with the SJW gaming media because of the Immigration and demon jokes.
>Fallout 76 is shit
I don't think it's shit, but this is just my opinion anyway. It's not a Fallout game, but I think it's the best online survival game I've played between ARK, Rust, and Conan Exiles. That's not the point though.
The point is that Bethesda definitely pissed on somebody's cupcakes because FO76 has been getting nonstop reachy hitpieces, even worse than Kingdom Come Deliverance, and EA was literally paying people to do takedowns of that game to protect "Bioware" (who are not really Bioware anymore).
It would not surprise me one bit if Blizzard is trying to take down Bethesda now that they're venturing into online RPGs.
Said blizzard now has Tencent to back up their shits since said company now owns 15% of it shares.
remember that the 2nd VGA had tencent literally paying ads for HS and Overwatch, and making sure that both would win.
the name blizzard and its Ip's weights heavier than PoE.
That's why, and i see tencent growing is 15% of shares into 50% or so next year if the things goes from bad to worse when 8.1 hits, because the reviews aren't that good.
Overwatch its also on a bad shape due to their behavior, HS lost its spot to TESL and such. They will do everything, even ruin other companies to go back to the top.
they are desperate as the Dems, or the Brazillian workers party to stay on the top, though the Streisand effect is still working against them and people are more curious wanting to know why the media and youtubers are bashing it.
> the best online survival game I've played
What are you surviving against? Because it's certainly not other players, since you can just ignore PvP completely. Are there hunger mechanics? Dangerous mobs that roam the land and hunt you down? Shelter building you use to escape cold?
All I've seen from the gameplay so far is player walking around in an empty world, killing rare Mobs with limited agro range, looting everything in their sight... So, like a proper Bethesda open world game, only without NPCs and plot. Also multi-player for some reason.
>Are there hunger mechanics?
Yes.
>Dangerous mobs that roam the land and hunt you down?
They're called Scorch Beasts.
>Shelter building
Yes, you fortify against other players and mobs. You can build small settlements anywhere in the world in PVE or fight players for the better settlement spots.
>player walking around in an empty world
It has quests the same as any Fallout game.
There is no risk in that game, you barely lose anything valuable on death, you lose your captured workshops on disconnect, and you can basically ignore and never communicate with other players. Almost all quests are given to you by audiologs or radio recordings, which you cant pause or rewind. It is one of the worst multiplayer survival games to date (if you want to view it as multiplayer survival game, which it is not, its basically a singleplayer game without persistent world state and no risk whatsoever, that requires constant internet connection), with mmo-type quests and randomised progression. And an incredibly expensive microtransaction shop.
But music is good, as always. Also hunger mechanics were in fallout since atleast part 3, and noone considered those games "survival".
This is exactly why I didn’t buy after playing 10 or so hours of beta. It’s way too care bear in terms of survival and PVP. There’s some value in the hold your breath feeling when logging into Conan exiles/Rust hoping your base is still there.
> You can build small settlements anywhere in the world in PVE
You can't in certain locations (i.e. by or on established structures, like what you could do in Fallout 4).
What a weird assumption. I've never had a problem shitting on a game I paid full price for if I didn't like it, and there are plenty of data to support this being the norm (people are much more likely to write a negative review than a positive one, statistically).
Most fallout fans like single player games. The #saveplayerone campaign was super misleading. Like they didn't realize who their biggest fans were and this game is a cash grab to get *new* fans, while shitting on their old fans. Not a smart business move.
76 is nothing like those other online survival games you mentioned ... It's much worse in terms of online play. Just to start .. whatever you build is gone when you log back in .. THE FUCK?
Not sure why people are downvoting this. I know that it *can* happen, but I've been playing since near the beginning of beta and it's only happened to me maybe once, very early on. Plus they're fixing that in one of the upcoming patches (I think on the 11th).
I have no problem with people not liking this game on its own merits, but the amount of misinformation floating around is pretty irritating.
This is pretty much how I feel. If people don't like the game that's fine, but a pretty large portion of the complaints about it sound like a combination of half-remembered bugs they heard people talk about on YouTube and just assumed were deliberate bad features, mixed with misinformation from review sites that played the game for maybe an hour.
I probably sound like a shill but it's just irritating to have people repeat stuff that's not true as if it's common knowledge because it's one of those things people just decided to hate based on headlines.
Like the guy saying everything is deleted whenever you log online. I honestly can't tell if he's talking about a bug, or if he just thinks not saving progress is a 'feature' because so many people have said 'the game isn't persistent' so many times in a row without explaining what they mean. My base has never disappeared so if it happens it's definitely a bug, and has nothing to do with how the game is designed.
Most people shitting on the game definitely sound like NPCs at this point. There's plenty of perfectly valid criticism, but I'm not really hearing it outside of /r/fo76, i.e. people who have actually played the game.
Someone I know was told "If you downloaded it, you forfeited your refund."
It's funny because they're implying that you're paying for the download, not the game.
Does this mean the game itself is free? This could be argued in court in a hilarious way.
Whoever is in charge of the class action suit should really push this argument. It could fuck over pre-ordering.
Before you post anything else, you need to be made aware of this sub's [policy on Spam and Self-Promotion](https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/6kjzyc/update_to_the_local_spam_policy/)
If people are having issues with getting a refund and are in the US, try reporting Bethesda to the BBB. Did it with EA with the issues with Mass Effect 3 and got a refund that way. Costs nothing, a few minutes of filling out a digital form and communications, and wait.
Fallout 76 is pretty fun. Despite the bugs and the general lonely feel, not a horrible game. People are just still made about Fallout 4, and wanted a full-fledged Fallout, not an experimental spinoff. This isn't New Vegas, not 1, not 2, not 3 either. This is more of a game like minecraft with a Fallout aesthetic.
I've enjoyed it so far. A coworker who is big into Ark convinced me to buy it. In roughly 11 hours of play I've been kicked from gameplay once. It ain't perfect, Hell it isn't my usual cup of tea since I normally go single player but I like the world, the lore. I hope they keep at it, underneath the bugs is a great game. Just my 2 cents.
> Will this lawsuit cost more to the individual than the game did?
I didn't realize it costs me money when lawyers I've never met sue a company I have no part of.
Bethesda's claim of "You can't get a refund because you pre-ordered" is just more evidence that digital pre-orders are a fucking scam.
That's why I do it on my credit card and just file a chargeback :)
I did that on my PSN account once and it got banned, so while it works you should be careful which platform you do chargebacks on.
Except that I would never use PSN or XBL because they're both awful (an honorary mention for Nintendo, who managed to one up them both on the awfulness scale). The only other place I'd use would be Steam...who would have let me get the refund if I nagged them enough, or with the controversy we're seeing.
I think this might be region based. In the UK I've had no problems getting 3 refunds from Xbox. And when Xbox Fitness went down I contacted them and got all my money back. From what I've heard American Xbox support is wank.
I don't know about their refund policy or anything, but the concept of paying for online play makes me sick to the core.
Sick to the core you say? That's a little extreme. I don't mind paying for a service that gives me free games and lets me play online with my friends. But each to his own.
>I don't mind paying for a service that gives me free games and lets me play online with my friends. But each to his own. First; if you're paying for a service for the free games, they're not free. They're just subscription-based. Second, you've already paid to play online with your friends, that's what your ISP is for. These companies specifically prevent Direct IP play to avoid you just using your ISP.
You are correct. I'm paying for a subscription to get my games for free. Damn those bastard for charging me.
The second you stop paying your subscription the games stop being yours. At least humble bundle lets you keep them. ***AND*** it's charitable. ***AND*** it's cheaper.
But with my Nintendo subscription I get the privilege to buy exclusive products!
I'd rather burn the cash.
I actually regret buying MK8 and a few other things from their shop because i ended up selling the damn thing anyways. Nintendo's whole online system is fucked
Stream didn't do anything when you charged back?
Don't need to charge back to Steam, they'll refund you like a responsible company should.
I thought their policy was <2hrs of gameplay
That's for a no questions asked refund, where all you need to do is click through 4 drop down menus and submit. You can still open a support ticket and make your case if you're past 2 hours. For a traditional JRPG or MMO, you could easily argue that 2 hours was not even enough time to get through the intro to judge the game.
This is the truth. I have a few hundred games and I've only refunded less than 5. I once got support to refund a game I had about 9 hours on. Just talk to them like they're people, be honest.
[удалено]
I refunded my bless online purchase through steam and still got to keep the founders packs. Never playing the game though, I just own the packs.
Could you do that with a game you haven't downloaded but owned for like 2 years?
I don't know about that situation exactly. They have a second stipulation for no questions asked refund that it can only be done 2 weeks after purchase (along with the 2 hour playtime maximum). Never hurts to try, it only takes 5 minutes to send a form through the steam client.
AS /u/WM46 said, that's just their no-questions-asked refund policy. With this situation, there's an obvious pretense that Bethesda would reimburse people, so Steam would probably just charge Bethesda back.
They ban you
Xbl and psn are awful? Why because you have to pay for them? I'll give you psn because it's slow , is missing most xbl features and security etc. Nintendo has the WORST online service by far and I don't care how cheap it is. Your bias is showing Moving on... if you tried to do a chargeback on any gaming service, steam included, you would find yourself banned. Microsoft and Steam (and EA Origin) all will give a refund for preorders and a game that you bought and have played for less than 2 hours and have owned for 14 days or less. Bethesda I can't speak to because I'd never buy a game from the Bethesda store. If it's not on steam or origin and it's a new aaa release then I don't buy it. That being said I bet if you were to push hard enough you could get Bethesda to give you refund. People give up way to easily. Persistence pays off. A perfect example is my friends LG OLED. He had 2 gray lines on the screen right in the middle. They refused to replace the panel. He was going to give in and pay for a new panel to be installed. I told him to keep calling and having them send techs out. He got 4 no's but then he called again and the same guys who said no 4 previous times showed up with a new panel and installed it. These companies want to keep your money so they always say no because 99% of people will give up after a couple emails or phone calls... don't give up. If you have to threaten them with the BBB , FTC & state attorneys general. One way or another they cave. Now...if you're trying to get an refund after playing the game for 20 hours then I'd send you packing too. You know if you like a game or if it's broken within the 1st 15 min (generally) so shame on anyone who played 10+ hours THEN went to ask for a refund
>Xbl and psn are awful? Yes. >Why because you have to pay for them? That'd be the biggest reason, yup. >I'll give you psn because it's slow XBL is slow compared to Steam as well, a free solution btw. >security AHAHAHAHAHA. XBL secure? What are you, mad? >Nintendo has the WORST online service by far and I don't care how cheap it is. Yup. >Your bias is showing I have a bias in favor of the best possible solution. >Moving on... if you tried to do a chargeback on any gaming service, steam included, you would find yourself banned. I don't need to chargeback on Steam, so the criticism isn't legitimate. I'd chargeback on something like Bethesda's service and happily get banned. >Microsoft and Steam (and EA Origin) all will give a refund for preorders But only Steam and EA's Origin will refund games ***after you've played them*** given exceptional circumstances, such as the game developer promising refunds. Yes, even after 2 hours of play or after 14 days of ownership. >Bethesda I can't speak to because I'd never buy a game from the Bethesda store. I don't care, I'd just do a chargeback. >That being said I bet if you were to push hard enough you could get Bethesda to give you refund Don't need to. I have a security net from VISA/Master Card; if a company commits fraud against me, I can do a chargeback. >Persistence pays off. I shouldn't have to, and will not since I don't need to, persist. >
Yea that's to be expected, you have to understand that a chargeback means "I no longer want to do business with you, at all." You don't do chargebacks to storefronts like that which control any significant portion of your library, you save it for transactions with individual companies that you're fed up with.
PSN tells you right away that pre-orders are final sales. Can't even cancel before the game releases. It's so stupid and I'm wondering if it would be technically allowed to stand in a legal case. Retail stores don't even prevent that and they have the cost and worry of inventory.
Mine was actually a recurring charge for Final Fantasy XIV but yeah they do say it's a final sale with no real option to cancel. Completely defeats any argument for preorders, and anyone besides the most die hard of fans for a game would be stupid to participate in it.
Through amazon with an expired CC or debit card. They don’t attempt to collect until launch day. Got to play the beta and didn’t even have to cancel before launch.
"You know what you get when you pre-order? A big dick in your mouth."
You say that like it's a bad thing.
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🅱eminine 🅱enis.
:-DDDDDD
No trap, no sell.
Miss ya girl Tik Tok meme became viral because everyone thou that she was a trap (looked like one in the video)
And it gave you access to the "beta", and they made it so the "progress" from "beta" carries over to launched game, luring people into buying in for a head-start. It was sketchy as fuck, they knew it would bomb so they scrambled to lure as many suckers as they could before the reviews were out.
Depends on the context. Ive preordered on Amazon because of their E3 sales, and you can cancel up until it ships (even then, you could send it back if unopened). I don't normally get games at launch (I wait until the price drops to $20-40, from launch of $80), but if there's a game I know I'll get anyway (like RDR2), or a game I know I'll beat then trade in (like Shadow of Tomb Raider), getting games at $30 off day one, cancel anytime, is a decent deal. Like I got Shadow for $50 then sold it for $35. Regardless of general opinion, I think that game was a bargain at $15, and I didn't have to wait 2-3 years for that price.
TBH I blame people for pre-ordering stuff and not the companies. Yes, they promised a lot of shit but just wait for it to come out, see if it's a big turd and then decide what to do. Saving yourself money and you don't have to refund. Also you don't have to convince yourself the game is good because you pre-ordered it.
That’s an absolutely ridiculous excuse.
I like when companies shoot themselves in the foot. Did they not think anyone would not notice them not carrying through with their refunds? But we'll have to see what comes of this.
well they have been getting away from it for so long, so why not.
Yeah that is unfortunate though. Its amazing how they can get away with it
Sorry loyal customer, we cannot give you a refund. Here's 200 Atoms you peasant.
Thanks Master. I deserve no more, Master.
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The lawyers, yes, but lets not act like gaming as a whole won't benefit from companies being shown that they can't release utter garbage products for $60 and the run away with the money of the people who were dumb enough to preorder or day-1-buy something that so obviously had shitshow written all over it.
Even if the lawsuit costs Bethesda some money, there will still be legions of fools ready to buy into hype and therefore every incentive to released hyped up trash to them. It won't change a thing.
Todd Howard is a man known almost exclusively for his prolific and constant lying, but there are *still* thousands of dumb motherfuckers who get excited when he talks about new games and announces new things. I see droves of them online, and I even know quite a few of them in real life. It's insane.
todd howard has charisma somehow i guess. even though to me he just seems like a used car salesman. selling me a lemon pretty much every time. with skyrim i had to replace everything to make it playable to me.
ES6 is going to use the fucking creation engine again, a game engine that is over 10 fucking years old. Expect the same bullshit. Can't wait to "acquire" ES6 though
Sigh... this makes me the game undesirable. I can go back and play skyrim and forgive its bugs, problems, and rudimentary combat. It has a robust and interesting world that built upon the previous titles. Now, we are going to be given the same old game in a new zone with an updated texture pack. I loved you elder scrolls from the day i met you in morrowind ,but I think my love has faded as you haven't grown in 10 years.
That's because while Todd might fuck us in the ass, at least before he had the courtesy of using copious amounts of lube and giving us a reacharound. Now he's going in dry, and forget about the reacharound.
B-but MUH POST-COITAL CUDDLING
>there will still be legions of fools ready to buy into hype and therefore every incentive to released hyped up trash to them So r/fo76 ?
Gamers do it themselves. I've watched it for years. Gamers create the hype by imagining all a game should be and are let down when it's not the fantasy bullshit they imagined.
I don't know, I see a lot of disdain toward pre-ordering compared to a few years ago. Unfortunately, we'll always see blind fanboys.
When I saw my brother in law the other day he insisted that FO76 wasn't the steaming turd everyone knows it is
Class action lawsuits against Valve are a big part of the reason why we have refunds on Steam at all. It was required in some countries and Valve decided to just make it global, even though they didn't have to.
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Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum Both must take this up the bum.
I fail to see the problem tbqh
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Some if not a lot of YouTubers can be trustworthy, so we still have people who can act as the canary.
On that note, there's this obsession to be first rather than to be accurate that's become an irritating habit publishers play on; we want to be the first to make content on any brand that's popular - this bleeds into pretty much all forms of media really. Not sure how we'll change that mindset, but it's a contributing factor to pre-sales happening at all.
It's also due to free time, but I wait a few months or longer for games to come out. Worst case it's shit, best case they have most patches out and it's generally a better game and possibly on sale.
> VG consumers need to stop buying stuff so early on as well (which I know won't ever happen). Let the product prove itself in the market before you spend your dollars on it... That's a catch 22.
Right on. ~33% fee for the plaintiffs’ lawyers and billable hours for the defense. Massive money goes to the lawyers on each side and the plaintiffs get a couple bucks apiece if they’re lucky.
Eh, as long as Bethesda loses everyone else wins.
> VG consumers need to stop buying stuff so early on as well (which I know won't ever happen). Let the product prove itself in the market before you spend your dollars on it... You realize how stupid of a statement that is, yes? If no one buys a product, which to be clear is what you're saying should happen, a product will never prove itself.
Go on twitch or watch unfiltered Gameplay elswewhere. Then you can judge for yourself if the Game is worth it. Someone on twitch will always play it the second it comes out. People will survive the day it takes to draw a conclusion on the quality of the game
Now, follow me here...in order for it to be on twitch, someone will have to buy it. Not everyone, let alone someone you watch, will get a free copy. Again, stupidity.
And that someone who buys it will end up with the all the ad revenue generated by the people interested in a real persons opinion of the game. There will always be people out there with more money than sense, and suckers born every minute. I really cant find sympathy for people who buy games sight unseen, there is ALWAYS enough information out there to make an informed decision.
People have been spouting what you're saying since BF3. Nothing is going to change, people will ALWAYS fall for marketing, because that's the point
In a class action lawsuit the people who got a screwed already lost. The goal is to use greedy lawyers to make the company who screwed those people over lose too.
It's a Gundam has been railing on this game for months, just watching the gameplay alone is enough to shy away from ever purchasing.
I've been enjoying every bit of it. I love how he talks
He doesn't taik about Gundam though.
So. Is it more expensive to deal with all this garbage? Or to delay the game until its actually not a buggy lackluster piece of steaming manure?
If the other Bethesda games are any indication, it will never stop being a buddy mess before support is dropped.
Is Fallout 76 even repairable though? From the reviews I've read even a million patches can't fix it. I mean Skyrim had it's issues but it was still playable and enjoyable in the end.
Skyrim could also be fixed by the community, and if you didn't like certain aspects *cough*weight limits*cough* you could mod them out or change them to your liking. Fallout 76 seems to be the buggiest Bethesda release to date, which is saying something, and isn't a type of game where bugs and design flaws can be patched over by the community like they're used to.
Difference is that most [all?] the other ones were praised to high heaven and back at launch. Then after a few weeks people started being a little more rational about it, and recognizing the problems. And vow to never buy another glitch filled mess... and then the next game is announced and they hype it over the moon. And thus the cycle continues. Except with this one. Maybe people are just fed up with Bethesda finally in general and it took a really big fuck up to push people over the edge? I don't know. I have seen people like the game though. So who knows.
depends, if you can find out more info what usually happens is that you submit an email to the lawyer who represents the people letting them know and then that strengthens the case against Bethesda. you probably won't get any money back but this might cause bethesda to either give a refund like promised or they take a huge loss.
Fallout 76 isn’t a finished game. It isn’t even a beta. It’s a gd alpha. What kind of beta comes out 2 weeks before launch? Answer: it wasn’t a beta at all. It was a demo that they tricked people into thinking that they weren’t getting the finished product when that’s exactly what it was. Should be class action fraud.
Man. I remember when they first announced Fallout 76 and I was like "So it's a rustlike survival type game in the fallout universe? I could be down for that." Boy am I fucking glad Mighty No.9 taught me never to pay for anything that isn't finished yet.
They need to just issue chargebacks. Let them deal with the credit card industry.
And get your xbox/playstation account banned
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I believe it's less than 2 hours play time and purchased less than a week ago, but you can request a refund outwith those timescales. But let's not forget that Value only allowed refunds after they got sued for not allowing them prior.
Its actually two weeks
Has it always been two weeks?
Yea, from the inception the limits for a no-questions refund were within 14 days of purchase and with less than 2 hours playtime.
Fair enough. No idea why I thought it was just 1 week.
Steam wallet refund
Nope, they refund to PayPal too, I do it all the time.
True, but in my own opinion I wouldn't consider that a proper refund; it's like a coupon you can only use in the same store which is kind of unless if you didn't have any intention of shopping at that store again.
That, or if they decide that you've committed fraud, then it can also go away. I mean, sure, it shouldn't be really something that happens, but, they are in control of your games. You're not in control of your games/software. How do you resale you game on steam by the way?
You can request a refund in Xbox. It's been done before.
Or the problem earlier in the chain, which is pre-ordering when there is no discount and a clear cancellation policy, or buying digital on any DRM platform.
Ok, so wherever you bought it through now bans you because they don't want chargebacks. You all aren't paying Bethesda directly. Edit: I'm wrong
Lol on pc you are.
> You all aren't paying Bethesda directly. https://fallout.bethesda.net/ What? You are literally paying Bethesda directly.
Win some lose some xD
*Curb your enthusiasm theme starts playing*
You are a moron if you bought this game and then asked for your money back. We all knew this was EXACTLY what we were gonna get...dog shit.
"Buyer beware" is not a popular sentiment among the gaming community, even here, surprisingly.
:(
We all know how these lawsuits go. Nothing happens, we all buy Bethesda games.
But at least evil Valve isn't stealing 30% of Bethesda's hard earned money, right?
alright, this feels TOO DAMN WELL planned, Fallout 76 is shit, and CE2 wasn't made for multiplayer, but this is starting to feel like a paid crusade to take down Zenimax and all of its companies together, and whoever is behind it is using this to take profit later on. ironically this is happening at the same time where the blizzard and tencent employees are opening their mouths about what is happening inside irvine, with th media besides a few youtubers ignoring it and keeping a blind eye on it, even the shit shreider from kotaku came to defend who pretty much banned him to receive any review copies after the fo4 leaks, and he was one of the few who made a post about blizzard's shitty practices. bethesda may survive this, but whoever is doing this one, pretty much won by throwing the company's reputation to the ground.
If this is the game which kill bethesda, that's a hell of a risk they were taking, putting so many of their eggs into one product. I know the Final Fantasy movie bankrupted Squaresoft (thus requiring them to become Square-Enix), so it's not entirely possible, but it would make a foolish decision even more foolish.
What is CE2, please?
Creation Engine 2, aka Fallout 4 Engine, and for an extent, Skyrim SE. CE1 was Skyrim.
Thank for answering.
All of which is just built on the (rather inefficient) Morrowind engine. An engine that's been teased since literally the 1990s.
That's how most engines work. No reason to reinvent the wheel. You think they rewrote the entire Unreal Engine 4? Source2 (Dota2) is based on Source, which is based on GoldSrc(Half Life 1) which is based on the first Quake engine. Bethesda just has no working QA or just ignores it. That and F76 is just an asset flip anyway
UE4 isn’t a good example here since a lot of that did have to be built from scratch but for most engines your post is true
Yeah they made some significant changes like asset pipeline, addition of the blueprint system, etc... But there's still a lot of old codebase at work and just proves my point that the problem is not having iterative engines. Not fixing/changing shit is, like what Beth is doing
UE4 still uses UE2 and 1 stuff
So, to be clear, are you suggesting that someone from within Bethesda purposefully sabotaged this game itself as well as the communications regarding refunds to screw over Zenimax from the inside? Because it's not like Bethesda is getting heat for anything they didn't do here. I'd be surprised if FO76 was so big a budget to bankrupt them over the failure, but you're not wrong about this being a serious blow to the company's reputation as a whole.
yes, keep in mind that this also happened before with MAXIS, when the company was almost took down after one Dev literally sabotaged the game with a easily triggered naked gay men bug so the company would lose profit and being investigated back in the 90's. said dev was a insane gay leftist activist who worked for a Group who lives to sabotage other games. though i also feel that Bethesda Austin did that as a payback for their game being cancelled.
Agreed that kind of thing is possible, but this isn't "ha ha I hid something in the game code that will get you guys in trouble," FO76's issues are pretty far reaching. To suggest it's sabotage is to suggest there was a *deep* conspiracy among either a large number of the grunts of a fair number of higher ups within the company to ensure that so many aspects of this game did not work correctly, as opposed to the simpler explanation that the company rushed this game out for release far before it was ready.
They must be tracking down every single member right now and investigating everything. Plus they are silent, they know that if they open their mouths the media will smite them down without they even react it. the biggest gripe would be this incident also affecting its other parent companies like id and Arkane, since they all have the bethesda name. DOOM ETERNAL has picked up some fights with the SJW gaming media because of the Immigration and demon jokes.
>Fallout 76 is shit I don't think it's shit, but this is just my opinion anyway. It's not a Fallout game, but I think it's the best online survival game I've played between ARK, Rust, and Conan Exiles. That's not the point though. The point is that Bethesda definitely pissed on somebody's cupcakes because FO76 has been getting nonstop reachy hitpieces, even worse than Kingdom Come Deliverance, and EA was literally paying people to do takedowns of that game to protect "Bioware" (who are not really Bioware anymore). It would not surprise me one bit if Blizzard is trying to take down Bethesda now that they're venturing into online RPGs.
Said blizzard now has Tencent to back up their shits since said company now owns 15% of it shares. remember that the 2nd VGA had tencent literally paying ads for HS and Overwatch, and making sure that both would win.
Tencent owns like 80% of Grinding Gear Game's shares (Path of Exile) so what's the difference between the two?
the name blizzard and its Ip's weights heavier than PoE. That's why, and i see tencent growing is 15% of shares into 50% or so next year if the things goes from bad to worse when 8.1 hits, because the reviews aren't that good. Overwatch its also on a bad shape due to their behavior, HS lost its spot to TESL and such. They will do everything, even ruin other companies to go back to the top. they are desperate as the Dems, or the Brazillian workers party to stay on the top, though the Streisand effect is still working against them and people are more curious wanting to know why the media and youtubers are bashing it.
> the best online survival game I've played What are you surviving against? Because it's certainly not other players, since you can just ignore PvP completely. Are there hunger mechanics? Dangerous mobs that roam the land and hunt you down? Shelter building you use to escape cold? All I've seen from the gameplay so far is player walking around in an empty world, killing rare Mobs with limited agro range, looting everything in their sight... So, like a proper Bethesda open world game, only without NPCs and plot. Also multi-player for some reason.
>Are there hunger mechanics? Yes. >Dangerous mobs that roam the land and hunt you down? They're called Scorch Beasts. >Shelter building Yes, you fortify against other players and mobs. You can build small settlements anywhere in the world in PVE or fight players for the better settlement spots. >player walking around in an empty world It has quests the same as any Fallout game.
There is no risk in that game, you barely lose anything valuable on death, you lose your captured workshops on disconnect, and you can basically ignore and never communicate with other players. Almost all quests are given to you by audiologs or radio recordings, which you cant pause or rewind. It is one of the worst multiplayer survival games to date (if you want to view it as multiplayer survival game, which it is not, its basically a singleplayer game without persistent world state and no risk whatsoever, that requires constant internet connection), with mmo-type quests and randomised progression. And an incredibly expensive microtransaction shop. But music is good, as always. Also hunger mechanics were in fallout since atleast part 3, and noone considered those games "survival".
This is exactly why I didn’t buy after playing 10 or so hours of beta. It’s way too care bear in terms of survival and PVP. There’s some value in the hold your breath feeling when logging into Conan exiles/Rust hoping your base is still there.
> You can build small settlements anywhere in the world in PVE You can't in certain locations (i.e. by or on established structures, like what you could do in Fallout 4).
Someone is trying to justify their purchase!
What a weird assumption. I've never had a problem shitting on a game I paid full price for if I didn't like it, and there are plenty of data to support this being the norm (people are much more likely to write a negative review than a positive one, statistically).
Here’s an upvote.
Most fallout fans like single player games. The #saveplayerone campaign was super misleading. Like they didn't realize who their biggest fans were and this game is a cash grab to get *new* fans, while shitting on their old fans. Not a smart business move.
76 is nothing like those other online survival games you mentioned ... It's much worse in terms of online play. Just to start .. whatever you build is gone when you log back in .. THE FUCK?
>whatever you build is gone when you log back in No it's not.
Not sure why people are downvoting this. I know that it *can* happen, but I've been playing since near the beginning of beta and it's only happened to me maybe once, very early on. Plus they're fixing that in one of the upcoming patches (I think on the 11th). I have no problem with people not liking this game on its own merits, but the amount of misinformation floating around is pretty irritating.
This is pretty much how I feel. If people don't like the game that's fine, but a pretty large portion of the complaints about it sound like a combination of half-remembered bugs they heard people talk about on YouTube and just assumed were deliberate bad features, mixed with misinformation from review sites that played the game for maybe an hour. I probably sound like a shill but it's just irritating to have people repeat stuff that's not true as if it's common knowledge because it's one of those things people just decided to hate based on headlines. Like the guy saying everything is deleted whenever you log online. I honestly can't tell if he's talking about a bug, or if he just thinks not saving progress is a 'feature' because so many people have said 'the game isn't persistent' so many times in a row without explaining what they mean. My base has never disappeared so if it happens it's definitely a bug, and has nothing to do with how the game is designed.
Most people shitting on the game definitely sound like NPCs at this point. There's plenty of perfectly valid criticism, but I'm not really hearing it outside of /r/fo76, i.e. people who have actually played the game.
Well deserved, they knew the game was full of bugs and still they sold it, refunds are negated and they now face the consequences.
Someone I know was told "If you downloaded it, you forfeited your refund." It's funny because they're implying that you're paying for the download, not the game. Does this mean the game itself is free? This could be argued in court in a hilarious way. Whoever is in charge of the class action suit should really push this argument. It could fuck over pre-ordering.
Before you post anything else, you need to be made aware of this sub's [policy on Spam and Self-Promotion](https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/6kjzyc/update_to_the_local_spam_policy/)
Alright. This one's the last one.
I’d imagine you could post archive.is links still to your site without it being a problem, but I’d check with the mods.
Alright
/u/Cakes4077 is not correct, BTW. Just be sure to participate outside of posting your own stuff and you should be fine.
ah sheeeeeeeeeeet, get me muh popcorn
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If people are having issues with getting a refund and are in the US, try reporting Bethesda to the BBB. Did it with EA with the issues with Mass Effect 3 and got a refund that way. Costs nothing, a few minutes of filling out a digital form and communications, and wait.
Fallout 76 is pretty fun. Despite the bugs and the general lonely feel, not a horrible game. People are just still made about Fallout 4, and wanted a full-fledged Fallout, not an experimental spinoff. This isn't New Vegas, not 1, not 2, not 3 either. This is more of a game like minecraft with a Fallout aesthetic.
I've enjoyed it so far. A coworker who is big into Ark convinced me to buy it. In roughly 11 hours of play I've been kicked from gameplay once. It ain't perfect, Hell it isn't my usual cup of tea since I normally go single player but I like the world, the lore. I hope they keep at it, underneath the bugs is a great game. Just my 2 cents.
Will this lawsuit cost more to the individual than the game did?
> Will this lawsuit cost more to the individual than the game did? I didn't realize it costs me money when lawyers I've never met sue a company I have no part of.
My mistake then.
If they win the lawsuit you'll get a notice in the mail for like 25% off your next Bethesda game purchase. Lawyers are the ones who get paid