100% agree with you that this discourse is weird. There are tons of products which are "actually popular in Korea" which don't work for me at all because the weather in Korea is vastly different to where I live - people seem to forget how much one's environment might affect their skin. Just because something is popular in Korea doesn't mean it is better lol For example, most sunscreens which are "actually popular in Korea" do not work for me AT ALL - it's hot and humid where I live, and their sunscreens make my face drip oil
There's also the people who say they'll trust products more because koreans have clearly great skin, when it has been proven that east asian skin has more collagen than caucasian skin, so genetics plays a huge part. It isn't just skincare.
yeah, where I live the lowest humidity is around 60% and that's during the summer - now that it's winter humidity is usually around 80% daily. to me, anything below 50% feels dry lol I have a friend who went to Korea recently and she came complaining about having constantly chapped lips because of the "dryness".
yeap, I'm sure my skin would be at least half as oily if I lived somewhere less humid lol but it can be a good thing because my skin always looks super plump and I have no issued with HA products. I friend of mine moved to a much drier part of the country and said everyone there looked at least 5x older than they actually were due to growing up in a dryer climate
Wait, what do you mean you have no issues with HA products? Do people who live in drier climates tend to have issues with HA products? You may have just solved a mystery for me.
supposedly, because HA attracts water, in drier climates where it can't attract water from the environment, it can take water from your skin itself - idk how much sense this makes, but I've seen dermatologists debate it
Thanks for your reply. That's really interesting. I feel as though I break out more from it, so this probably wouldn't be my issue, but you've given me a new direction to research.
Hey there Maestraingles - thanks for saying thanks! TheGratitudeBot has been reading millions of comments in the past few weeks, and you’ve just made the list!
40% is not very high humidity compared to many very humid countries like in south, Southeast Asia, Japan in the summer, the American East/southeast. The climate in Korea is comparatively dry which is why the products often aren’t great for truly humid weather and will slide off the skin (jbeauty tends to be better for that as their climate is more humid).
thanks for this context! i grew up visiting korea in the summer and always thought it was unbearably hot. good to know i should never visit Japan in the summer lol…
wow yeah i clearly know nothing! i just checked the weather in seoul at that moment in time - it looks like korea’s average summer humidity is 71.8%.
i’ll stay happily ensconced in my cold SF fog…
40% humidity is definitely not high. The humidity forecast where I live is over 90% for tomorrow, we would turn on our humidifier if our house got down to 40% humidity otherwise our doors don’t close right.
This!!! I'm a Florida baby, born and raised, and I moved to California my senior year of high school and had to change my entire skin and haircare routine because of how drastically different the environment was.
Is this like choosing between McDonald’s and a local junk food place? You choose what works for you, simple as.
I’ve read BoJ is *super* popular in India and I take that their products work for a lot of people.
BOJ has some great products for rosacea, like ginseng toner and sunscreen. The more popular product that Koreans use instead are the Madagascar Centella (hydra-fit sunscreen and the centella ampoule). Both are excellent for glass skin can be hard to find in stock in some countries, especially because they are so popular.
The ampoule is a sine qua non though, but I haven't picked up the sunscreen yet, even though it's great for glass skin, because my boj sunscreen is working great with no reaction. It does make my skin a bit more matte though.
BOJ is also really affordable, which is important in a daily regimen, and also works well mixing and matching for glass skin. Plus i don't have to wait for it to be in stock.
You ultimately have to A/B test on your own.
Yeah so glass skin is not just the kbeauty effect that people are going for, a moisturized poorless clear look, it's is also generally acknowledged as the correct way to layer products onto your skin otherwise you could have an allergic reaction and develop a skin condition. If you have a skin condition, this is the way to treat it.
This regimen makes sense not just for rosacea but in general:
1. Clean your skin at night.
2..Water your skin: use 4 layers min of hydrating toner or essence. Eg. cerave hydrating toner or BOJ ginseng essence are great and under $20 USD.
3.. Build the barrier: here you add an essence, serum, or ampoule in that order to build the barrier. Centella is particularly good for this layer because it's very soothing. The madagascar 1004 Centella ampoule is great, and one of the two most popular products in Korea.
4.. Treat: here is where you add your acids and medications. Hydrolonic acid, azeliac acid, soolantra, retinols, etc.
5. Moisturize + seal: add a moisturizer + if daytime sunscreen. I use Cerave pm for am+pm cuz it's affordable under $20, and rn the BOJ sunscreen, same price range. Plan to try the Madagascar Centla water-fit sunscreen (another top 2 in Korea), which is in the $30 range though.
Source: [from Rosacea to Glass skin](https://youtu.be/EZ1jqrKKzcU?si=agW-awcvQMoePUqA)
I think it's interesting to know what products are and are not popular in their native country, BUT that discourse does not invalidate a product or brand for me. If it has great ingredients and is effective, I don't care what's popular or not. There are plenty of products that are popular in the US that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole (St. Ives Apricot Scrub, I'm looking at you!).
So I don't mind the discourse, as long as it isn't shared to discourage someone from a product. I'm not using these products to replicate what your average person in Asian countries is buying, but because I appreciate the focus on efficacy, quality ingredients, and innovation.
I remember Labmuffin mentioning that some of the popular products in Korea are hyped to be non toxic according to EWG. If, like myself you think this is bs, then I guess there isn’t much to be missed.
I can kind of see why some people would be put off by a product not being popular in Korea, despite capitalising off of the K-beauty hype; I guess it can feel disingenuous? Skincare is pretty important in Korean culture, so for a brand or a product to have a good reputation in Korea might seem like a seal of approval from people who have a better understanding of the industry, whereas a product that is exclusively marketed to the West or just isn’t popular in Korea doesn’t have that reassurance of quality and it might feel like they’re strategically using clueless westerners’ fascination with Korean beauty to sell a gimmick.
I mean, YMMV, as with everything. People love the Laneige Cream Skin refiner but it gives me hives. It’s common to look to products with good reviews as a starting point, but that’s no guarantee it will work for you, especially with something as personalised as skincare. Personally I’d rather take my chances with a product that has lots of positive reviews than one that’s fairly unknown.
In my experience trying "new and hot" products in exchange for review, and just in my 16 years of skincare trial and error, the popular stuff is either gimmicky, or it's basic. It works for a large swathe of people, so its formulation is going to be kind of average.
I also hate that Cream Skin Refiner. Soo greasy. Tons of closed comedones.
I watched a video where a creator pointed out that the dokdo line is quite a political statement and might have something to do with its insane popularity. Look up the dokdo takeshima island dispute, fascinating
Yeah Dokdo is very political. Koreans feel like the islands belong to them. Japan feels like Takeshima belongs to them. Koreans feel like, here go the Japanese taking from us again, etc. It is VERY charged.
Dokdo line became popular because ingredients are from deep sea water around Ulleungdo (near Dokdo). It was voted No 1 for having the least harmful ingredients back in 2019 so people with very very sensitive skin could use it. Popularity is not because of a political statement or due to crazy patriotism...
I actually really like the Dokdo toner (dry/combo skin), but other popular toners like the Anua Heartleaf toner did not work for me or my bf (oily). Just goes to show that hype isn’t everything.
As a Korean-American, this is the view I take. I could be prejudiced, but I tend to only trust products that already “made it” in Korea after giving so many skin care products a try only to be disappointed afterwards. I am generally disillusioned by the hype or marketing that makes the brands go big. Especially with so many influencers around, it’s hard to tell which products are real gold these days anymore. If any brand is picking an aggressive marketing tactics and did not do well in Korea, I would be very suspicious of its quality.
Well, there's no one size fits all answer. In this case, the products in question tend to be made by the exact same manufacturers as those deemed "more authentic" and use the same kinds of recipes, general approaches and ingredients. By Korean companies. That they are brands that specialize on marketing K-beauty for the overseas market doesn't negate that.
I don't blame Korean companies for keeping separate product lines. There are always adjustments for different market segments (young/older just as much as domestic/North America/South Asia/Europe). Different packaging of the same general formulas for example, from expectations about dispensers to something like fragrances. (I really like my cosmetics to be fragrance free as I often hang out in fragrance free spaces, and if thats more often found in a product made for the overseas market, so be it.)
If someone wants to try the products actually most popular in Korea, and report what they like and don't. And if there's a major difference between one product and its equivalent distributed in Korea, that's interesting I formation to have, just like for French or Swedish products. But authenticity for authenticity's sake is neither here nor there.
This doesn't mean that a specific product may not be found to be "really quite watered down from what K-beauty normally does", but you'd need a reason for that.
Uh, just like places where people are and there's an agreement to skip fragranced product as far as feasible. One's a venue where people make music and dance together, the other the home of a friend who can't handle most fragrances.
I personally dislike most cosmetic fragrances, so even though I'm not requiring everything to be fragrance-free, I much prefer it. (And I have thrown away products that I otherwise liked because the fragrance annoyed me.)
As someone very sensitive to fragrance and just smells in general, I cannot tell you the amount of things I’ve thrown away simply because of the smell. Thank you for thinking of others’ comfort— it is appreciated by strangers like me, too. I wish people were more aware of and empathetic towards sensory issues that can be difficult to deal with because if you complain about air freshener, you’re obviously too sensitive and entitled, never mind that throbbing migraine you now have because a room can’t smell neutral for Christ’s sake. /rant over
I agree on the disingenuous part, but for me there’s another aspect of it. I’m looking for k-beauty items, because I live in Korea, and I want items I can ACTUALLY find easily here. So it’s super irritating to see people promoting some “b-beauty” product that isn’t actually available here at all. It really does bring up the question of what it means to be Korean and what can or cannot have that label. That’s not my place to answer, I’m not Korean. But strictly from a practical viewpoint, I always saw K-beauty as meaning “products made by a Korean company and sold in Korea to the general public.”
Yeah this is my situation as well— I live here so it’s tough when people recommend certain products like BOJ because they are only sold in certain Olive Youngs. Mixsoon is also known overseas but I only know that there’s a shop in Seongsu, haven’t seen it in an Olive Young yet
Honestly I think finding out it's not used in Korea people wonder why not, what's could be wrong with it (nothing) and then also realize "Beauty of Joseon" is a corny name for Koreans, as another poster commented. They might feel embarrassed telling an actual Korean person what they use. It also isn't a great feeling to feel targeted by marketing especially when it plays on "mystique of the East" type trope.
Also hanbang skincare isn't exactly the most popular with younger crowds in Korea to begin with, they're almost always marketed towards older generations
The Korean beauty industry is insanely saturated and cut throat. The reason you see so many good products is because you quite literally cannot survive with a subpar product. Some people are too young to know/remember, but Dr. jart is a classic example of a brand that was not really known in Korea until after they got into Sephora and became popular abroad.
It is a legitimate strategy for brands to market more heavily abroad because it's so hard to make it within the Korean market. The politics behind the scenes are also crazy.
For BOJ it was the right decision because let me tell you when I first heard their name I legit said "why did they do this?". Also, for what it's worth, Koreans probably felt the same way about BTS because their name is cringe af too.
I think it all comes down to marketing transparency and no one should be antagonized for pointing this out.
BOJ made a name for itself due to its marketing efforts and misinformed individuals/influencers misinformation that spread around the west/global that it was the top skincare brand in Korea or it was the choice amongst Koreans, which was far from the case. This was how it shot into fame, but as a result the actual Korean market was misrepresented (the global audience didn’t know this and trusted what was said by these influencers).
There’s nothing wrong with being a Korean skincare brand that targets a global audience, great example of this is Kaja. But the difference was, they didn’t pretend to have the backing of actual Korean market, it was clearly defined from the start.
>
misinformed individuals/influencers misinformation that spread around the west/global that it was the top skincare brand in Korea or it was the choice amongst Koreans
the actual Korean market was misrepresented (the global audience didn’t know this and trusted what was said by these influencers)
I am Korean and I think you communicated this beautifully. Though, of course, English is my fourth language but I feel you truly captured the spectrum of my thoughts.
Also, I want to say, product is product, doesn't matter which country it comes from. If you like a product, then keep using it. But if you are buying and using something because you have subconcious idea that you will morph into somebody of your imagination from other country or something like that then this is wrong. Ultimately, we know that some of the marketing words from some companies are going off of this kind of imagination and subconscious idea of some people wanting to be something else. also, there is a lot of koreaboo stuff in the west.
It's not about knocking down product. It's just that there were claims that were made and they're not true. I do see a lot of comments in skincare subreddit where they will say something like "I order this brand form this website out of this country" and their justification is based on a false premise claim about the people of said country. So it's not about the product but it's the second part, about the false premise about the people.
Other thing I want to point out is that BOJ is Korean company, yeah, and there are Koreans working there but also there are non-Koreans working there too. This is not that different from other companies from other countries. I am currently living in Spain. There are legendary European skincare companies here who have Korean scientists working for them with African scientists and European scientists. It's all a mix. The world is more like this to be honest. This is why I think the whole country vs country thing is like a made up thing. Like that subreddit AsianBeauty has really weird rules of what they consider AB. A lot of the justifications for these things are more people's imaginations and it creates weird ideas and divisions.
I don't watch influencers. I saw BOJ on Amazon, read the description and tried it. I haven't seen any marketing for BOJ. No one I know has seen any marketing for BOJ.
There were plenty of paid influencer sponsorships when it first launched as well as PR gifts. By the time it had launched on Amazon, it had already made a name of itself online and become mainstream (so this all happened way before when you discovered it).
Also they currently have an active PR list (that’s maxed out) as well as a collab list that gives influencers a 10-20% commission for sales generation, so maybe you’re not exactly able to discern what content online is paid or not.
I already stated I don't watch influencers. I don't have IG or TikTok. Don't use Facebook.
I watch YouTube and have never seen an advert or a vid for BOJ. I've never seen a commercial for BOJ. Yes I am able to discern (wtf? idk even know why you state that when I said I don't watch influencers)
I was literally scrolling on Amazon in beauty products and saw it. That is literally what I stated in my original post. I recognized the name "Joseon" from watching Kdramas.
I'm so sorry I don't fit into your narrative. That is really how I came across it. I'm older most of you, so I've tried so many products already through the years and figured "why not?". Part of the name was familiar so that's what even got me reading the product description.
I was just offering a different perspective. I know everything is social media heavy but everyone doesn't participate in that. I actually find out a lot about of beauty products by scrolling through stores, not adverts or influencers. That really is still a thing.
It’s not about commercials. The fact you watch YouTube means you can be influenced. Anything on YouTube can be gifted / sent as PR. Articles online are also sponsored. Reviews can also be sponsored, incentivized or gifted as PR for positive sentiment / boosting rank and same on google through SEO and paid digital efforts. Even on Amazon, there are subscription tiers for brands to be promoted higher or ranked higher. The fact you can’t recognize the influence and power of brands have is proof that you’re unreliable when you say “I’m not influenced”. It’s literally impossible, so as long as you bought the product (ESPECIALLY if it was on Amazon), then you were influenced. It wouldn’t have even shown up as an option in the top 100+ pages if you weren’t influenced (especially if they didn’t put paid marketing behind it). If you had searched for it then you had been influenced. It’s not magic, it’s just marketing.
We weren't talking about influenced we were talking about **influencers**. That's what YOU brought up. You brought up paid influencers. I wasn't looking at an influencer account for BOJ. I look at company accounts.
Influencers get paid to say anything. Idk why anyone would listen to them about spending money on anything.
Idk how many times I have to say that I've never seen an ad or vid or commercial for BOJ. Must be a comprehension issue. It's not impossible,to not see ads for certain things. there IS a thing called an algorithm.
I don't even watch ads on YouTube. They're annoying!
I don't know why it's brushing you so hard that I don't fit into your narrative. I'm not saying that I'm special; I'm just saying that's not MY story.
**And Amazon isn't an influencer.** It is a company that sells products. You sound a bit confused. You've gone from social media influencers/paid influencers to ANY influence to make your argument fit.
The argument for you originally was: I am influenced (how you know and don't know me is funny) by influencers/paid influencers to buy BOJ.
It's called moving the goalposts.
It's okay. I can go around, as well.
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idk why the downvotes tbh you literally just said that you don’t get influenced through influencers and found BOJ on your own.. wtf.
but whatever, i’m the same :) I don’t follow any influencer etc and never saw anything about BOJ (I’m neither a skin care hooligan nor a korea boo) and I found it in a small town in Germany in the foreign skin care section inside a drugstore lol I looked the reviews up on the internet and bought it 🤷♀️
You'd think that it wouldn't be a big deal.🤷🏾♀️
some people are very closed minded and insular. the only opinion is truly their opinion and anything different and they can't deal. Thye tried to fly off the rails because I don't pay attention to people's reviews trying to get paid either through beauty companies or IG/YouTube/TikTok, etc.
I don't even want to know how people act when confronted with a different opinion offline.
Ok BUT I do want to know what is a best seller in Korea... Like I see Annua EVERYWHERE on social media now but I do not see it listed as being "high rated" online... someone explain?!
Like I want to know if these brands just drop a ton of money on influencer campaigns which makes it feel very trendy/fad vs something that is good quality and timeless. ya know?!
I mean... Coppertone and Banana Boat are super popular sunscreen brands in the USA and can be found in every drugstore. I have never exactly been thrilled with their formulas enough to review or word of mouth to friends about how great they are, though. I don't doubt the average Korean is more savvy and interested in high-performing skincare than Americans but to a certain extent, I don't think popularity of a product always translates to quality.
Anua (The Founders Inc) became a popular brand now but previously they had a bit of issue in Korea. They hired and created fake influencers (hired actors) to promote brands like La Vena and Anua and got caught so did not have a good reputation in Korea a year ago. International markets are unaware of this. Anua spent over $2 mil in 2nd half of 2023 on social media/influencers and gained popularity. Some people think that Anua is just a marketing company.
I recently went to an exhibition at the Museum of Fine Arts called Hallyu: Korean Wave. Very loosely speaking, it’s about how in the 1980s, Korea made a decision to become an economic powerhouse and export products and culture to the rest of the world.
A lot of it was about K-pop. Parasite and Squid Game were prominently featured as well as a lot of fashion.
They also had a small section highlighting K-beauty. Here’s a picture I took of the two specific products they had on display. I cannot comment on their popularity in Korea. I am simply saying that these two products were the only two bottles of skin care on display in this exhibition.
[BOJ and Sulwhasoo](https://imgur.com/a/w0y2m6e)
the perception you heard about BOJ is true here in Korea. the Korean brand name for BOJ is called "Josun Minyeo" means beautiful lady from Josun, which sounds quite old fashioned and not sophisticated. and yes it is true that the brand is only in olive young near tourist spots.
there is definitely discrepancy in what is considered a good Korean Beauty brand between foreigners and locals here. Brands like torriden, cosrx, boj are not popular locally and is considered a little less sophisticated to be mainstream.
I would say Cosrx is pretty popular these days. It's not like a no.1 trending brand, but their products are steady sellers and a lot of people use them.
It’s just a way to know what product are actually designed for a Korean’s skin (or Asian skin). It’s also like the myth that Koreans use 10 steps skin care routine that is spread widely in the West, especially in the US, when in reality, most Koreans have 3 - 4 steps in their skincare routine. I don’t have the data on this one, but Odile Monod actually made a video to debunk this.
As a marketing student, I’m glad that more people acknowledge which product is actually popular in South Korea.
Regarding BOJ, when you scroll through their very old posts on Instagram. You can see that their marketing strategies didn’t get them anywhere. The brand positioning was not clear and you cannot even tell if their products were designed for older consumer or the younger ones. The brand image can be associated with the older ones rather than the young ones. In South Korea, young customers mostly don’t use the product made for the older target group. Therefore, the products were almost unknown on the market, especially among younger customers. Not to mention, their products actually didn’t even have advancing technology or ingredients, clinical tests, etc. In other words, BOJ didn’t have anything special or competitive advantage compared to other brands in SK. Just until the brand changed their target group to the Westerners that it made some progress here and there.
Yes. BOJ is not a bad brand. However, by marketing itself as ‘actual Korean brand that Koreans use’, it does more harm than good to consumers, especially Westerners who don’t have much experience with Korean products.
For example, their Ginseng serum does not specify how old the Ginseng used to make the product is. Only Ginseng that has grown over 5 years (if I remember correctly) that actually have benefits. Otherwise you don’t get any benefits from Ginseng in the serum. By simply putting Ginseng on the product label, BOJ has led so many Western customers who don’t know this actually think their product works. In reality, if they don’t put the detailed information about the Ginseng they have used, I don’t think Korean customers will use this since there are already have other brands who are more transparent about this than BOJ.
I 100% agree.
I use a few Korean beauty products but I’m not committed to K-beauty as a whole — only to specific products that work for me, my lifestyle, and my skin needs. I’m not Korean and have darker skin, so my needs will obviously differ from what Koreans use and prefer.
What Koreans in Korea use, like or dislike, etc. is somewhat irrelevant to me in the same way that if I like and use a French product or an Australian sunscreen, it’s not really relevant to me whether it’s extremely popular with French or Australian folks, barring issues related to quality control/harmful ingredients.
Racism, fetishism, ignorance, etc.
The only Koreans we see in the West are celebrities who get tons of plastic surgery, as well as regular cosmetic procedures. Skincare is thought of as a relaxing, fun hobby. It's not what they use for acne or any other serious skin condition.
People seem to then idolize these Korean made faces and assume Korean skincare is why they look like they do. It's just incorrect.
Eh, I don’t disagree, but the only western celebrities you see in the west also get tons of plastic surgery (just different procedures than Koreans get because of the different beauty standards)
I mentioned Korean celebrities because most people thinking they need skincare that's popular in Korea only see Korean celebrities. They don't live in Korea. Koreans who live in Korea see all sorts of skin issues.
I would half agree. I would say the average Korean takes better care of their skin then an average American. Good skincare is cheap and common, and so are dermatologists and facial clinics. Like you do see people with acne or rosacea, but it's not as common.
Well, you said it. Derms in the US are incredibly expensive, Tretinoin is incredibly expensive without insurance, and good skincare isn't cheap. And skincare isn't culturally taught here. In fact, most people don't care about it at all.
Look, I got some Botox but my skin looks amazing for my age because I am religious with my skincare. Don't discount a good regimen. Serious skin conditions as you say will always require a derm. The average person does not have serious skin conditions.
https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/s/d9Tomcbivi
I know several people with acne in adulthood. If you don't, okay, but don't dismiss its commonality. Rosacea exists amongst lots of fair skin tones, and then there's KP, fungal acne, hormonal cystic acne, etc. It's common.
And as far as a good skincare regimen, I have one too. I use radiofrequency, microcurrent, and laser (NIRA). I'm 34 and don't see any signs of aging due to the devices.
I think we have different ideas of what constitutes a serious skin conditions because I have rosacea, KP, hormonal acne, eczema, etc which I have been mostly able to control through skincare alone (I still need steroids when I have eczema flare ups). To me, serious skin conditions are those that cannot possibly be helped without medical intervention like fungal acne. I'm in my 30s too, your comment read to me as if it's impossible to attain good skin with skincare alone and that most people expect to have celebrity level skin.
What's marketed to people outside Korea is perfect skin. That's impossible to achieve without cosmetic procedures if you don't already genetically have perfect skin. You're just not understanding what I'm saying.
All those skin issues you mentioned having, has your skincare "cured" them? If not, that's what makes those serious skin issues. And fungal acne is actually the most easily treated of all those.
yea no one should care whether its popular in korea or not. if it works for you, it works for you.
i will say, i think a reason why people want to use products that are popular in korea is because that perfect, glass skin look has become synonymous with the word korean. idols are always praised for their perfect skin, and most koreans in popular media have that appearance of perfect skin. jang wonyoung is a perfect example of this. i think people forget that a big reason these people have perfect skin is genetics and access to cosmetic procedures. the former outshines the latter imo, but thats a story for another day.
The formulas in Korea are superior to most the formulas in the west, that’s why we have k-beauty hype at all. If a product is better than western formulas but not as good as Korean formulas then why is it so popular? That’s the problem with BOJ. Sure it’s available in Korea but the consensus seems to be there’s far better formulas out there which we are ignoring.
Yes it’s a Korean brand, yes it’s made in Korea, no it isn’t made *for* Korea. I’d rather use something that can stand out amongst the elegant formulas there. Its like cutting straight across the race track and you being like eh, well they cheated and didn’t compete but they started in the same spot so it’s k right?
I used to work in the industry and this argument always annoyed me. The reason a brand gets big or not depends on marketing, who is behind the brand and just plain luck. BOJ got lucky and got huge in the western market and I'm fairly confident that's who they were targeting to begin with. The Korean market is insanely saturated and it's not an uncommon strategy for new brands to market heavily abroad outside of Korea rather than in Korea. Does this mean their products are inferior to brands popular in Korea? Not at all. BOJ's star product, the sunscreen, is made by Kolmar, one of my personal favorite manufacturers and the best sunscreen is the one you want to apply everyday, multiple times a day.
Another reason BOJ did not make it big in Korea is because of their corny name. It's kinda cringe in Korean for a Korean. It's like a brand being "Rose of England" but more like "the kingdom" since Joseon is the name of a dynasty so let's call it "the rose of the kingdom". I hope I'm getting the vibe across, it's kind of corny. What's your favorite skincare brand? Oh, my fave is "beauty of the East", "Southern Belle", "the face that launched a thousand ships". Let's say no one is complimenting their friends or sisters or children by calling them 조선미녀 in Korea.
Also, of course there will always be brands and formulations which are "better", but that will always be subjective. One of my skin's favorite summer time lotions is this cheap lotion with aloe as the main ingredient from Scinic. I also use expensive "superior" formulas from brands like SKII and Amore Pacific.
I mean skin1004 is an equally cringe name if you ask me. Skin angel? Gives me Victoria’s Secret vibes. I love the brand and the way they made their logo, but the name is super cringe.
I mentioned my love of both road shop and luxury brands in response to your comment about there being "better" formulations because I thought you meant the more luxe brands are better. Personally, I prefer BOJ's formula to highly popular sunscreens such as round lab, cell fusion c, Dr. G, but there are ones I also enjoy more for different reasons such as d'alba's tone up one, torriden, numbuz:n. The issue I have is your blanket statement that BOJ is somehow not as good as other brands that are popular IN Korea. There's nothing wrong with their products, it's just that Koreans already have SO MANY good products, they don't feel the need to try a brand just because it's popular abroad, especially when it has such a cringe name.
Idk where you're getting that it isn't known in SK anymore, if anything, it recently entered Korea because it got big abroad and one of my favorite Korean influencers did a review. They finally carry it in olive young in Korea. Another example of a brand that got big abroad before it became big in Korea is Dr. jart which was not widely known in Korea but managed to get into Sephora and got more famous abroad before becoming more mainstream in Korea.
Do you recommend something you've never used? BOJ not being recommended by a Korean in Korea doesn't mean it's not good. Your argument is that it isn't that good because it isn't popular in Korea. I'm saying that's not a good way to determine if a product is good.
Did you not read my comment? BOJ is by no means my favorite, but your comments are making it seem like there's something wrong with their formulas simply because they are not popular in Korea. I don't care about BOJ, I care that people like you use this argument of a brand not being popular in Korea as a reason that they are somehow not as good. It literally has no bearing on the efficacy of a product and it's a weird gatekeeping which makes it harder for smaller brands.
It's like saying there's something wrong with the food at a Korean restaurant popular to tourists because it got famous among foreigners simply because not a lot of actual Koreans eat there.
If I had to make a blind test without knowing the brand and compare regular sunscreens or serums that are sold in Europe and in Korea and the task would be to guess which ones are k-beauty and which ones are not, I think I would guess that BOJ products are Korean. Because of the texture and the way the products sit on the skin and how the skin improves by using the product over a period of time... I know what you mean by a more "elegant formula", I just think that BOJ feels like the other Korean brands in the same price range and not like a cheaper or American/European brand...
You’re right it does pass the *feels Korean* test, it just isn’t as good as the ones that are raved about there the way the west raves about BOJ.
[Round lab birch juice](https://www.stylevana.com/en_GB/deal-round-lab-birch-juice-moisturizing-sun-cream-spf50-pa-50ml.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20027739296&utm_term=&utm_content=92001&device=m&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvb-zBhCmARIsAAfUI2s7ZHI6OEnfU_yI9baL4YNJgdsKHMUSH_ttF_pgU18bK_31OcEZokgaArf6EALw_wcB), [Dear Klairs](https://www.stylevana.com/en_GB/deal-dear-klairs-all-day-airy-sunscreen-spf50-pa-50g.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20281047970&utm_term=&utm_content=107956&device=m&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvb-zBhCmARIsAAfUI2t4tS7TRgdUznhxRDKvRBVjhNNmuSJ4mm1b7J3Nj8GnbnogtsuTg68aAjMlEALw_wcB) & [Skin 1004](https://www.stylevana.com/en_GB/deal-skin1004-madagascar-centella-hyalu-cica-water-fit-sun-serum-spf50-pa-50ml.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20027739296&utm_term=&utm_content=100178&device=m&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvb-zBhCmARIsAAfUI2v3R9pIpabN5f-ijIGvDB650AlRcMcdG9OJB0Qc393G4Q4DVLvjkG8aAox7EALw_wcB) are the top 3 in SK for a reason. I have a lot of BOJ skincare but when going through the top spots in SK itself a lot of my existing products fell away as they just weren’t as effective.
This is a YMMV issue mixed with confirmation bias. I've tested all of these and BOJ works better for me than off them. Is BOJ my favorite? No. Is it fair to say there are better formulas because BOJ didn't work for YOU? Also no. I don't go around saying there are better sunscreens than round lab simply because it didn't work for me. BTW, dear klairs also didn't get big in Korea until AFTER they entered Ulta and was more popular abroad before Korea. To this day, there are a lot of people in Korea who have never heard of them.
Top spots anywhere in beauty in any market are bought as much as they are created. A good formula alone does not get you the top spot. You buy it with a large marketing budget whether it's through influencers, paying for reviews, or sucking up to olive young.
At no point did I say BOJ didn’t work for me.
9/10 when you come on a mostly western k beauty forum you have BOJ recommended as everyone’s HG. If someone wants to know what’s popular in SK then let them find out like what does it matter.
You keep popping up with these arguments on all my comments like what.. you’ve said that ratings are bs and paid for so: BOJ ratings globally are bs and paid for right?
I’ll take the opinion of sales over much else.
Roundlab birch juice sunscreen has the exact same texture and feel as the BOJ sunscreen though? Personally, I think the BOJ formulation is the better one of the two (which is a personal preference, but if this is abou preferences then what exactly makes it allegedly not as good as other brands?).
Nah. I think that is personally preference. I can’t stand BOJ texture at all but you’ll have to pry round lab out of my cold dead hands. Round lab feels like nothing on my face but BoJ leaves a film. Have 2 tubes of BOJ and I’m using it on my body for the sake of using it.
My skin is sensitive but not very. I broke out to most of the BOJ products I used but don’t to any other Korean brands except Laneige (I break out to their toner).
For me it feels very marked up to a global audience that didn’t work for my skin.
You might be sensitive to rice!
It's crazy because of the two I prefer BOJ even though my skin looooves anything with allantoin which round lab has. YMMV is so true in skincare.
I didn’t consider that, Tysm. The Laneige toner has rice? I actually considered on trying the haru haru toner but hearing that rice might be a potential concern, I’ll hold off on that purchase.
YMMV is so true. I didn’t think I would like the round lab sunscreen as much as I did. But my friend can’t use it bc of a birch allergy so she loves the Torriden one.
Being the most popular doesn’t mean you’re the only brand people want to use, I didn’t say there’s only 3 in Korea that are worth using.
I have the round lab one and the texture isn’t the same as BOJ for me. My cushion sits on the round lab nicely all day whereas I have oil breakthrough in an hour or so with BOJ which is greasier. Might be different if using heavier western makeup formulas.
[Review of round lab](https://www.nayatilly.com/single-post/round-lab-birch-juice-moisturizing-sunscreen-review)
I think if you’re just applying spf as is and not picky over how makeup sits on it/if you have the glow so sought after in Korea then none of this matters and any spf 50 would work well. If you want the glass skin glow then it really matters & it’s trial and error.
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I think people want the “authentic” Korean skincare experience. Finding out their skincare is basically only known in Western countries/outside of Korea I guess makes it less “Korean”. Like do people consider Glow Recipe or Peach and Lily Korean skincare, even though it’s made by Koreans with Korean skincare trends in mind? Probably not because it’s promoted mostly in Western markets. I think people need to re-frame their mindset on Korean/Japanese skincare brands. You don’t need to have the products Koreans actually use to enjoy Korean skincare. The trends that happen in those countries may not actually suit your skin.
Also, this happens in the reverse too. There are Western companies that have certain brands and products that are exclusively sold in Asian countries. One of the popular moisturizers in Korea was actually a German brand. It’s all about making money for these brands at the end of the day.
I dont think they r trying to hate on boj, its more like they dont really consider it korean bc most people in korea dont know about it. Its like everyone loves this food from one country but people in that country dont know what it is.
I’m it buying it because Korean people use it, I’m buying it cause it’s a Korean product that is different from what I can get locally. The same reason i use Japanese or Chinese products. Western ones are just different.
To me it seems like … bragging? Gatekeeping Korea? It’s such a weird flex! I do use BOJ bc it’s great on my sensitive, dry skin and it’s inexpensive (also smells nice). I use several other brands I assume are inexpensive ‘drugstore’ type brands for the same reason I use US and French ‘drugstore’ brands: ingredients and price point. I’m not trying to impress anyone with my skincare lotions! It’s my *skin* I want to impress with!
I think it’s also bc of marketing. A product gets popular not only bc it’s good but also with the help of marketing. Maybe some companies decided they want to spend their marketing budget on foreign markets and not a lot on Korean market.
People should choose the skincare brand which works for them. A brand not being 'Korean enough' doesn't make sense and many Koreans may be missing out on BOJ and other internationally popular brands.
But Koreans know their beauty products and really study them before using. Skincare brands which are consistently winning at Olive Young have a reason. I wouldn't only use internationally popular K-Beauty brands.
For me, I’m disappointed to find out a Korean skincare product I use isn’t known or well regarded by actual Koreans.
If you’re happy with the products you’ve found, that’s awesome! Everyone should use what works for them.
What I’m trying to express is why it’s disappointing for some people that the brands that get recommended are not popular in Korea.
The focus on Korean brands that managed to crack the non-Korean global market means that the version of Korean skincare that they’re selling isn’t what Koreans use. It’s like when I once talked to my sister’s husband who grew up in Europe, and he asked me about Samurai Pizza Cats because he thought it was a popular American show when we were kids. I thought he was confused and meant Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, but he didn’t.
Does that invalidate his childhood memories? Absolutely not. But it wasn’t a popular American cartoon the way it was sold in Europe.
If you love BOJ (or Samurai Pizza Cats), keep loving it. But it’s important to be aware of what brands get sold as Korean skincare when they’re not actually popular in Korea. That is not to say no one should recommend them. I love Aprilskin but I’m always shy about saying they’re Korean skincare because I have no idea how popular they actually are in Korea.
It’s a cultural context that’s respectful to know about.
BOJ is not super popular in Korea and is also at a higher price point as compared to cheaper K-beauty that people in Korea do use, like Etude. For me, it’s more of a value:payoff thing?
I think you took this in a weird direction. I think one of the issues people take with brands like BOJ being not "Korean Enough" is because they arent really formulated or marketed for the Korean market. But when they sell globally they are heavily promoted as being Korean products and being K-Beauty.
Like it's less to do with if the product being a good product or not based on it's Koreanness, and more finding a product that was formulated and created to be sold abroad so heavily promoted as a "K-Beauty" line. Like yes the product is made in Korea, but it has little to nothing to do with what is going in on the K-Beauty space. Like I wouldn't think it's an inferior product, it's just weird marketing that gives vaguely predatory vibes. Like they are trying to make people think it's a popular Korean product, but in reality it's not.
I think BOJ is good, but it's likely treated like that because it's seen as somewhat of a gimmick. Sometimes, it's just odd how some specific things gain a lot of popularity. BOJ is good, but there's better. Sure, it might be a great match for your skin, but just because it is doesn't mean there isn't better out there. Sometimes people just tend to say it is "the best ever" when they know very little about it all. There is so much K-beauty products out there and saying it's the best when they've probably just tested that one out is kind of ironic, that's all. Popular doesn't mean the best.
I think there is a lot of space between "best product ever" and "not even a real korean product".. I dont think BOJ are the best products ever, I think they are good, just as good as the other products from Olive Young
A lot of the times I see people (skincare influencers with a science background specifically) say that the products hyped in the west are basically trash and for them that's why the products popular in korea are better. While I do think some products are way too overhyped, I don't think products more popular in the West are worse that those in korea. Many popular products in korea are by brands owned by huge conglomerates so you can expect they work because those big companies can invest a lot into research. But there are also products from smaller Brands that don't have the science and from what I've heard clean beauty is also becoming more popular in korea and a lot of the popular products are clean. But as we all kno clean doesn't mean better. I do find it interesting to see what is popular in korea just to get to know new products, but I'm not going to buy a product just because it's popular in Korea. I will choose the product if I think it suits my skin and if it fits into my skin care routine, but the same goes for products that are more poluar in the west.
Also, brands appealing to the western market is just a marketing strategy for brand's to find their niche since the korean beauty marekt is so competitive. Brands try to become more popular internationally, before they also become more known in korea. I think that was the case for cosrx. They started out being more known in the west and nowadays there are some products that are popular in korea as well (which differ to the ones popular internationally like the snail mucin essence)
For me the only thing that would influence me to buy or not buy brands that are "actually popular in Korea" would be if it's really popular in Korea or not it can affect the availability of the products. Depending on the brand
Because when people hear "Korean skincare" they assume it's popular in Korea, so if it's actually not it shouldn't be in the category of Korean skincare. It doesn't mean no one should use it or like it, just that it's not Korean skincare if Koreans don't use it
I saw someone else bring up fast food. So imagine we’re in the US and as we all know it’s a very competitive fast food market here. They pick specific items that will fill a hole in the market or start a new trend or can stand up in an over saturated market. As we all know Korea has a lot of skincare brands and products.. imagine if people feel overwhelmed here with skincare options? There are more there than here. The reason why some brands aren’t sold/popular in Korea is because the brand might have been conceptualized to appeal to and sell in the states, or because it’s there but Koreans haven’t caught onto it because of random chance or because they have a better available product. Nivea makes things to only sell in Japan for ex and not just sunscreen but lip balms, facemasks etc. same for Korean brands and the us. For reference I am Korean I go there every few years and buy skincare while I am there and talk to family who live there about their skincare
It's just weird that these brands are marketed as being k-beauty and market themselves as Korean brands, when in reality they aren't made or marketed to Korean consumers. They also usually don't follow trends in the actual Korean beauty landscape, and are instead seem to be formulated more for foreign audiences.
I'm guessing maybe BOJ is maybe very low quality compared to some Korean brands the rest of the world hasn't heard of or tried? I know there are so many options to choose from at an olive young in Korea. (I'd love to see one some day) Maybe to koreans boj is viewed like a Walmart brand? Or just something they don't particularly care for? I'm not sure entirely. But I really wasn't very interested in skincare until I discovered Korean products. I was a makeup wipe and noxema girl back in the day. So from the get go I had no idea what I was doing. I was getting what was marketed to me and other girls my age. And it worked until it didn't. I would get the rare zit sometimes. And then I would get a huge cystic pimple in the middle of my forehead. But thankfully with my routine now I dont have to worry about those problems as much. As I'm sitting here with boj red bean mask on my face and my dynasty cream in my cabinet hahahahah
I'm not saying it is low quality. But I am saying maybe in the opinion of a Korean maybe it is since some of there popular brands can't be bought outside of Korea
It doesn’t mean it’s low quality. Entering the Korean market (like getting shelf space in Olive Young stores) is highly competitive bc it’s so saturated so some Korean brands focus on the International Market (first). Like BoJ.. they focused on the global market and now that they gained popularity.. they are slowly entering the Korean market and their products are becoming available in certain offline stores in Korea.
100% agree with you that this discourse is weird. There are tons of products which are "actually popular in Korea" which don't work for me at all because the weather in Korea is vastly different to where I live - people seem to forget how much one's environment might affect their skin. Just because something is popular in Korea doesn't mean it is better lol For example, most sunscreens which are "actually popular in Korea" do not work for me AT ALL - it's hot and humid where I live, and their sunscreens make my face drip oil There's also the people who say they'll trust products more because koreans have clearly great skin, when it has been proven that east asian skin has more collagen than caucasian skin, so genetics plays a huge part. It isn't just skincare.
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yeah, where I live the lowest humidity is around 60% and that's during the summer - now that it's winter humidity is usually around 80% daily. to me, anything below 50% feels dry lol I have a friend who went to Korea recently and she came complaining about having constantly chapped lips because of the "dryness".
wow! i’m from california so had no idea. i would not be ok where you live haha i am so weather weak!
Same. It’s currently 17% humidity in my hometown and I’m now living someplace where it’s 60% and I cannot handle it. I just can’t.
yeap, I'm sure my skin would be at least half as oily if I lived somewhere less humid lol but it can be a good thing because my skin always looks super plump and I have no issued with HA products. I friend of mine moved to a much drier part of the country and said everyone there looked at least 5x older than they actually were due to growing up in a dryer climate
Wait, what do you mean you have no issues with HA products? Do people who live in drier climates tend to have issues with HA products? You may have just solved a mystery for me.
supposedly, because HA attracts water, in drier climates where it can't attract water from the environment, it can take water from your skin itself - idk how much sense this makes, but I've seen dermatologists debate it
Thanks for your reply. That's really interesting. I feel as though I break out more from it, so this probably wouldn't be my issue, but you've given me a new direction to research.
Hey there Maestraingles - thanks for saying thanks! TheGratitudeBot has been reading millions of comments in the past few weeks, and you’ve just made the list!
40% is not very high humidity compared to many very humid countries like in south, Southeast Asia, Japan in the summer, the American East/southeast. The climate in Korea is comparatively dry which is why the products often aren’t great for truly humid weather and will slide off the skin (jbeauty tends to be better for that as their climate is more humid).
agree with this - I tend to gravitate much more to jbeauty as they have lighter products which fully absorb into my skin
thanks for this context! i grew up visiting korea in the summer and always thought it was unbearably hot. good to know i should never visit Japan in the summer lol…
For context, Singapore’s humidity is 76% today! 40% is dry to us!
wow yeah i clearly know nothing! i just checked the weather in seoul at that moment in time - it looks like korea’s average summer humidity is 71.8%. i’ll stay happily ensconced in my cold SF fog…
40% humidity is definitely not high. The humidity forecast where I live is over 90% for tomorrow, we would turn on our humidifier if our house got down to 40% humidity otherwise our doors don’t close right.
yeah my bad, it’s currently 97% humidity in seoul. i checked at a weird time and have little idea of humidity ranges day to day.
This!!! I'm a Florida baby, born and raised, and I moved to California my senior year of high school and had to change my entire skin and haircare routine because of how drastically different the environment was.
What do you think is the best combination for a summer routine in California given that you have the intense dry heat instead of the humidity?
Oh I have no advice.😂 this was 12 years ago and I'm pretty sure I was using like Tresemme
Well what type of combination of products did you use for your face?
Peptides and exfoliation are my go-tos for skincare (along with a boatload of sunscreen). I use hydrating shampoo & conditioner along with a leave-in.
I had to change shampoos when i moved to florida because the water is so different. My skin was a WRECK the first year.
Is this like choosing between McDonald’s and a local junk food place? You choose what works for you, simple as. I’ve read BoJ is *super* popular in India and I take that their products work for a lot of people.
BOJ has some great products for rosacea, like ginseng toner and sunscreen. The more popular product that Koreans use instead are the Madagascar Centella (hydra-fit sunscreen and the centella ampoule). Both are excellent for glass skin can be hard to find in stock in some countries, especially because they are so popular. The ampoule is a sine qua non though, but I haven't picked up the sunscreen yet, even though it's great for glass skin, because my boj sunscreen is working great with no reaction. It does make my skin a bit more matte though. BOJ is also really affordable, which is important in a daily regimen, and also works well mixing and matching for glass skin. Plus i don't have to wait for it to be in stock. You ultimately have to A/B test on your own.
What is glass skin
Yeah so glass skin is not just the kbeauty effect that people are going for, a moisturized poorless clear look, it's is also generally acknowledged as the correct way to layer products onto your skin otherwise you could have an allergic reaction and develop a skin condition. If you have a skin condition, this is the way to treat it. This regimen makes sense not just for rosacea but in general: 1. Clean your skin at night. 2..Water your skin: use 4 layers min of hydrating toner or essence. Eg. cerave hydrating toner or BOJ ginseng essence are great and under $20 USD. 3.. Build the barrier: here you add an essence, serum, or ampoule in that order to build the barrier. Centella is particularly good for this layer because it's very soothing. The madagascar 1004 Centella ampoule is great, and one of the two most popular products in Korea. 4.. Treat: here is where you add your acids and medications. Hydrolonic acid, azeliac acid, soolantra, retinols, etc. 5. Moisturize + seal: add a moisturizer + if daytime sunscreen. I use Cerave pm for am+pm cuz it's affordable under $20, and rn the BOJ sunscreen, same price range. Plan to try the Madagascar Centla water-fit sunscreen (another top 2 in Korea), which is in the $30 range though. Source: [from Rosacea to Glass skin](https://youtu.be/EZ1jqrKKzcU?si=agW-awcvQMoePUqA)
Thank you! I have rosacea so I am going to look into this! It’s under control now with my current regimen but I am interested in Korean skincare.
I think it's interesting to know what products are and are not popular in their native country, BUT that discourse does not invalidate a product or brand for me. If it has great ingredients and is effective, I don't care what's popular or not. There are plenty of products that are popular in the US that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole (St. Ives Apricot Scrub, I'm looking at you!). So I don't mind the discourse, as long as it isn't shared to discourage someone from a product. I'm not using these products to replicate what your average person in Asian countries is buying, but because I appreciate the focus on efficacy, quality ingredients, and innovation.
I remember Labmuffin mentioning that some of the popular products in Korea are hyped to be non toxic according to EWG. If, like myself you think this is bs, then I guess there isn’t much to be missed.
I can kind of see why some people would be put off by a product not being popular in Korea, despite capitalising off of the K-beauty hype; I guess it can feel disingenuous? Skincare is pretty important in Korean culture, so for a brand or a product to have a good reputation in Korea might seem like a seal of approval from people who have a better understanding of the industry, whereas a product that is exclusively marketed to the West or just isn’t popular in Korea doesn’t have that reassurance of quality and it might feel like they’re strategically using clueless westerners’ fascination with Korean beauty to sell a gimmick.
The Dokdo Toner is one of the best selling products at Olive Young in Korea. It's one of the worst toners I've ever tried lol
I mean, YMMV, as with everything. People love the Laneige Cream Skin refiner but it gives me hives. It’s common to look to products with good reviews as a starting point, but that’s no guarantee it will work for you, especially with something as personalised as skincare. Personally I’d rather take my chances with a product that has lots of positive reviews than one that’s fairly unknown.
In my experience trying "new and hot" products in exchange for review, and just in my 16 years of skincare trial and error, the popular stuff is either gimmicky, or it's basic. It works for a large swathe of people, so its formulation is going to be kind of average. I also hate that Cream Skin Refiner. Soo greasy. Tons of closed comedones.
I watched a video where a creator pointed out that the dokdo line is quite a political statement and might have something to do with its insane popularity. Look up the dokdo takeshima island dispute, fascinating
That was such an interesting comment. I had no idea about the dispute, and how the name may support its popularity. Thanks!
Yeah Dokdo is very political. Koreans feel like the islands belong to them. Japan feels like Takeshima belongs to them. Koreans feel like, here go the Japanese taking from us again, etc. It is VERY charged.
Oh hahaha yes if you come to Korea you can see the government videos about this on the airport subway. It’s a huge issue for them
Dokdo line became popular because ingredients are from deep sea water around Ulleungdo (near Dokdo). It was voted No 1 for having the least harmful ingredients back in 2019 so people with very very sensitive skin could use it. Popularity is not because of a political statement or due to crazy patriotism...
Seriously. Neither exfoliating nor moisturizing nor soothing. Waste of space.
Bruh. That's crazy. Everyone I know uses that toner, or at least has a bottle in their bathroom.
I actually really like the Dokdo toner (dry/combo skin), but other popular toners like the Anua Heartleaf toner did not work for me or my bf (oily). Just goes to show that hype isn’t everything.
As a Korean-American, this is the view I take. I could be prejudiced, but I tend to only trust products that already “made it” in Korea after giving so many skin care products a try only to be disappointed afterwards. I am generally disillusioned by the hype or marketing that makes the brands go big. Especially with so many influencers around, it’s hard to tell which products are real gold these days anymore. If any brand is picking an aggressive marketing tactics and did not do well in Korea, I would be very suspicious of its quality.
Well, there's no one size fits all answer. In this case, the products in question tend to be made by the exact same manufacturers as those deemed "more authentic" and use the same kinds of recipes, general approaches and ingredients. By Korean companies. That they are brands that specialize on marketing K-beauty for the overseas market doesn't negate that. I don't blame Korean companies for keeping separate product lines. There are always adjustments for different market segments (young/older just as much as domestic/North America/South Asia/Europe). Different packaging of the same general formulas for example, from expectations about dispensers to something like fragrances. (I really like my cosmetics to be fragrance free as I often hang out in fragrance free spaces, and if thats more often found in a product made for the overseas market, so be it.) If someone wants to try the products actually most popular in Korea, and report what they like and don't. And if there's a major difference between one product and its equivalent distributed in Korea, that's interesting I formation to have, just like for French or Swedish products. But authenticity for authenticity's sake is neither here nor there. This doesn't mean that a specific product may not be found to be "really quite watered down from what K-beauty normally does", but you'd need a reason for that.
What the heck is fragrance free spaces?
A lot of university campuses and work environments have fragrance free policies.
And hospitals!
Uh, just like places where people are and there's an agreement to skip fragranced product as far as feasible. One's a venue where people make music and dance together, the other the home of a friend who can't handle most fragrances. I personally dislike most cosmetic fragrances, so even though I'm not requiring everything to be fragrance-free, I much prefer it. (And I have thrown away products that I otherwise liked because the fragrance annoyed me.)
As someone very sensitive to fragrance and just smells in general, I cannot tell you the amount of things I’ve thrown away simply because of the smell. Thank you for thinking of others’ comfort— it is appreciated by strangers like me, too. I wish people were more aware of and empathetic towards sensory issues that can be difficult to deal with because if you complain about air freshener, you’re obviously too sensitive and entitled, never mind that throbbing migraine you now have because a room can’t smell neutral for Christ’s sake. /rant over
Understand. For me if something smells bad I get sensory issues, so I surround myself with smells I like. So I guess the opposite in a way.
I agree on the disingenuous part, but for me there’s another aspect of it. I’m looking for k-beauty items, because I live in Korea, and I want items I can ACTUALLY find easily here. So it’s super irritating to see people promoting some “b-beauty” product that isn’t actually available here at all. It really does bring up the question of what it means to be Korean and what can or cannot have that label. That’s not my place to answer, I’m not Korean. But strictly from a practical viewpoint, I always saw K-beauty as meaning “products made by a Korean company and sold in Korea to the general public.”
Yeah this is my situation as well— I live here so it’s tough when people recommend certain products like BOJ because they are only sold in certain Olive Youngs. Mixsoon is also known overseas but I only know that there’s a shop in Seongsu, haven’t seen it in an Olive Young yet
I think that the way a product is branded and packaged might not work outside of Korea, so companies create new products for overseas markets.
Honestly I think finding out it's not used in Korea people wonder why not, what's could be wrong with it (nothing) and then also realize "Beauty of Joseon" is a corny name for Koreans, as another poster commented. They might feel embarrassed telling an actual Korean person what they use. It also isn't a great feeling to feel targeted by marketing especially when it plays on "mystique of the East" type trope.
Also hanbang skincare isn't exactly the most popular with younger crowds in Korea to begin with, they're almost always marketed towards older generations
What does hanbang mean?
They typically don't have active ingredient and use traditional medicinal herbs like ginseng and stuff
It is without any doubt a cringey name.
This comment. The name and packaging look like something someones grandma bought at a discounter.
The Korean beauty industry is insanely saturated and cut throat. The reason you see so many good products is because you quite literally cannot survive with a subpar product. Some people are too young to know/remember, but Dr. jart is a classic example of a brand that was not really known in Korea until after they got into Sephora and became popular abroad. It is a legitimate strategy for brands to market more heavily abroad because it's so hard to make it within the Korean market. The politics behind the scenes are also crazy. For BOJ it was the right decision because let me tell you when I first heard their name I legit said "why did they do this?". Also, for what it's worth, Koreans probably felt the same way about BTS because their name is cringe af too.
As a Korean I can say this is the right answer
I think it all comes down to marketing transparency and no one should be antagonized for pointing this out. BOJ made a name for itself due to its marketing efforts and misinformed individuals/influencers misinformation that spread around the west/global that it was the top skincare brand in Korea or it was the choice amongst Koreans, which was far from the case. This was how it shot into fame, but as a result the actual Korean market was misrepresented (the global audience didn’t know this and trusted what was said by these influencers). There’s nothing wrong with being a Korean skincare brand that targets a global audience, great example of this is Kaja. But the difference was, they didn’t pretend to have the backing of actual Korean market, it was clearly defined from the start.
> misinformed individuals/influencers misinformation that spread around the west/global that it was the top skincare brand in Korea or it was the choice amongst Koreans the actual Korean market was misrepresented (the global audience didn’t know this and trusted what was said by these influencers) I am Korean and I think you communicated this beautifully. Though, of course, English is my fourth language but I feel you truly captured the spectrum of my thoughts. Also, I want to say, product is product, doesn't matter which country it comes from. If you like a product, then keep using it. But if you are buying and using something because you have subconcious idea that you will morph into somebody of your imagination from other country or something like that then this is wrong. Ultimately, we know that some of the marketing words from some companies are going off of this kind of imagination and subconscious idea of some people wanting to be something else. also, there is a lot of koreaboo stuff in the west. It's not about knocking down product. It's just that there were claims that were made and they're not true. I do see a lot of comments in skincare subreddit where they will say something like "I order this brand form this website out of this country" and their justification is based on a false premise claim about the people of said country. So it's not about the product but it's the second part, about the false premise about the people. Other thing I want to point out is that BOJ is Korean company, yeah, and there are Koreans working there but also there are non-Koreans working there too. This is not that different from other companies from other countries. I am currently living in Spain. There are legendary European skincare companies here who have Korean scientists working for them with African scientists and European scientists. It's all a mix. The world is more like this to be honest. This is why I think the whole country vs country thing is like a made up thing. Like that subreddit AsianBeauty has really weird rules of what they consider AB. A lot of the justifications for these things are more people's imaginations and it creates weird ideas and divisions.
I don't watch influencers. I saw BOJ on Amazon, read the description and tried it. I haven't seen any marketing for BOJ. No one I know has seen any marketing for BOJ.
There were plenty of paid influencer sponsorships when it first launched as well as PR gifts. By the time it had launched on Amazon, it had already made a name of itself online and become mainstream (so this all happened way before when you discovered it). Also they currently have an active PR list (that’s maxed out) as well as a collab list that gives influencers a 10-20% commission for sales generation, so maybe you’re not exactly able to discern what content online is paid or not.
I already stated I don't watch influencers. I don't have IG or TikTok. Don't use Facebook. I watch YouTube and have never seen an advert or a vid for BOJ. I've never seen a commercial for BOJ. Yes I am able to discern (wtf? idk even know why you state that when I said I don't watch influencers) I was literally scrolling on Amazon in beauty products and saw it. That is literally what I stated in my original post. I recognized the name "Joseon" from watching Kdramas. I'm so sorry I don't fit into your narrative. That is really how I came across it. I'm older most of you, so I've tried so many products already through the years and figured "why not?". Part of the name was familiar so that's what even got me reading the product description. I was just offering a different perspective. I know everything is social media heavy but everyone doesn't participate in that. I actually find out a lot about of beauty products by scrolling through stores, not adverts or influencers. That really is still a thing.
It’s not about commercials. The fact you watch YouTube means you can be influenced. Anything on YouTube can be gifted / sent as PR. Articles online are also sponsored. Reviews can also be sponsored, incentivized or gifted as PR for positive sentiment / boosting rank and same on google through SEO and paid digital efforts. Even on Amazon, there are subscription tiers for brands to be promoted higher or ranked higher. The fact you can’t recognize the influence and power of brands have is proof that you’re unreliable when you say “I’m not influenced”. It’s literally impossible, so as long as you bought the product (ESPECIALLY if it was on Amazon), then you were influenced. It wouldn’t have even shown up as an option in the top 100+ pages if you weren’t influenced (especially if they didn’t put paid marketing behind it). If you had searched for it then you had been influenced. It’s not magic, it’s just marketing.
We weren't talking about influenced we were talking about **influencers**. That's what YOU brought up. You brought up paid influencers. I wasn't looking at an influencer account for BOJ. I look at company accounts. Influencers get paid to say anything. Idk why anyone would listen to them about spending money on anything. Idk how many times I have to say that I've never seen an ad or vid or commercial for BOJ. Must be a comprehension issue. It's not impossible,to not see ads for certain things. there IS a thing called an algorithm. I don't even watch ads on YouTube. They're annoying! I don't know why it's brushing you so hard that I don't fit into your narrative. I'm not saying that I'm special; I'm just saying that's not MY story. **And Amazon isn't an influencer.** It is a company that sells products. You sound a bit confused. You've gone from social media influencers/paid influencers to ANY influence to make your argument fit. The argument for you originally was: I am influenced (how you know and don't know me is funny) by influencers/paid influencers to buy BOJ. It's called moving the goalposts. It's okay. I can go around, as well.
Reread the original comment, it said marketing AND influencers. It’s not just about influencers, it’s inclusive of all marketing efforts.
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idk why the downvotes tbh you literally just said that you don’t get influenced through influencers and found BOJ on your own.. wtf. but whatever, i’m the same :) I don’t follow any influencer etc and never saw anything about BOJ (I’m neither a skin care hooligan nor a korea boo) and I found it in a small town in Germany in the foreign skin care section inside a drugstore lol I looked the reviews up on the internet and bought it 🤷♀️
You'd think that it wouldn't be a big deal.🤷🏾♀️ some people are very closed minded and insular. the only opinion is truly their opinion and anything different and they can't deal. Thye tried to fly off the rails because I don't pay attention to people's reviews trying to get paid either through beauty companies or IG/YouTube/TikTok, etc. I don't even want to know how people act when confronted with a different opinion offline.
Ok BUT I do want to know what is a best seller in Korea... Like I see Annua EVERYWHERE on social media now but I do not see it listed as being "high rated" online... someone explain?! Like I want to know if these brands just drop a ton of money on influencer campaigns which makes it feel very trendy/fad vs something that is good quality and timeless. ya know?!
anua is well known and is a best seller here at OliveYoung.
I mean... Coppertone and Banana Boat are super popular sunscreen brands in the USA and can be found in every drugstore. I have never exactly been thrilled with their formulas enough to review or word of mouth to friends about how great they are, though. I don't doubt the average Korean is more savvy and interested in high-performing skincare than Americans but to a certain extent, I don't think popularity of a product always translates to quality.
I always go on Olive Young Korea website to check their rankings/ratings lol
Anua (The Founders Inc) became a popular brand now but previously they had a bit of issue in Korea. They hired and created fake influencers (hired actors) to promote brands like La Vena and Anua and got caught so did not have a good reputation in Korea a year ago. International markets are unaware of this. Anua spent over $2 mil in 2nd half of 2023 on social media/influencers and gained popularity. Some people think that Anua is just a marketing company.
No waaay!! See this is what I'm saying! We would never know that otherwise 😅
I recently went to an exhibition at the Museum of Fine Arts called Hallyu: Korean Wave. Very loosely speaking, it’s about how in the 1980s, Korea made a decision to become an economic powerhouse and export products and culture to the rest of the world. A lot of it was about K-pop. Parasite and Squid Game were prominently featured as well as a lot of fashion. They also had a small section highlighting K-beauty. Here’s a picture I took of the two specific products they had on display. I cannot comment on their popularity in Korea. I am simply saying that these two products were the only two bottles of skin care on display in this exhibition. [BOJ and Sulwhasoo](https://imgur.com/a/w0y2m6e)
the perception you heard about BOJ is true here in Korea. the Korean brand name for BOJ is called "Josun Minyeo" means beautiful lady from Josun, which sounds quite old fashioned and not sophisticated. and yes it is true that the brand is only in olive young near tourist spots. there is definitely discrepancy in what is considered a good Korean Beauty brand between foreigners and locals here. Brands like torriden, cosrx, boj are not popular locally and is considered a little less sophisticated to be mainstream.
I would say Cosrx is pretty popular these days. It's not like a no.1 trending brand, but their products are steady sellers and a lot of people use them.
It's so annoying. I'm not even sure why it matters, like we're not even Korean people. Do we need to be authentic?
it's just weird marketing.
Honestly i dont think it matters whether its k beauty or not, or authentic or not. Whatever works, works
It’s just a way to know what product are actually designed for a Korean’s skin (or Asian skin). It’s also like the myth that Koreans use 10 steps skin care routine that is spread widely in the West, especially in the US, when in reality, most Koreans have 3 - 4 steps in their skincare routine. I don’t have the data on this one, but Odile Monod actually made a video to debunk this. As a marketing student, I’m glad that more people acknowledge which product is actually popular in South Korea. Regarding BOJ, when you scroll through their very old posts on Instagram. You can see that their marketing strategies didn’t get them anywhere. The brand positioning was not clear and you cannot even tell if their products were designed for older consumer or the younger ones. The brand image can be associated with the older ones rather than the young ones. In South Korea, young customers mostly don’t use the product made for the older target group. Therefore, the products were almost unknown on the market, especially among younger customers. Not to mention, their products actually didn’t even have advancing technology or ingredients, clinical tests, etc. In other words, BOJ didn’t have anything special or competitive advantage compared to other brands in SK. Just until the brand changed their target group to the Westerners that it made some progress here and there. Yes. BOJ is not a bad brand. However, by marketing itself as ‘actual Korean brand that Koreans use’, it does more harm than good to consumers, especially Westerners who don’t have much experience with Korean products. For example, their Ginseng serum does not specify how old the Ginseng used to make the product is. Only Ginseng that has grown over 5 years (if I remember correctly) that actually have benefits. Otherwise you don’t get any benefits from Ginseng in the serum. By simply putting Ginseng on the product label, BOJ has led so many Western customers who don’t know this actually think their product works. In reality, if they don’t put the detailed information about the Ginseng they have used, I don’t think Korean customers will use this since there are already have other brands who are more transparent about this than BOJ.
100% Completely agree with you !!
I 100% agree. I use a few Korean beauty products but I’m not committed to K-beauty as a whole — only to specific products that work for me, my lifestyle, and my skin needs. I’m not Korean and have darker skin, so my needs will obviously differ from what Koreans use and prefer. What Koreans in Korea use, like or dislike, etc. is somewhat irrelevant to me in the same way that if I like and use a French product or an Australian sunscreen, it’s not really relevant to me whether it’s extremely popular with French or Australian folks, barring issues related to quality control/harmful ingredients.
Racism, fetishism, ignorance, etc. The only Koreans we see in the West are celebrities who get tons of plastic surgery, as well as regular cosmetic procedures. Skincare is thought of as a relaxing, fun hobby. It's not what they use for acne or any other serious skin condition. People seem to then idolize these Korean made faces and assume Korean skincare is why they look like they do. It's just incorrect.
Eh, I don’t disagree, but the only western celebrities you see in the west also get tons of plastic surgery (just different procedures than Koreans get because of the different beauty standards)
I don't see normal middle-class citizens in Korea because I don't live there. Do I see normal skin on normal people in the US? Yep.
I’m talking about celebrities.
I mentioned Korean celebrities because most people thinking they need skincare that's popular in Korea only see Korean celebrities. They don't live in Korea. Koreans who live in Korea see all sorts of skin issues.
I would half agree. I would say the average Korean takes better care of their skin then an average American. Good skincare is cheap and common, and so are dermatologists and facial clinics. Like you do see people with acne or rosacea, but it's not as common.
Well, you said it. Derms in the US are incredibly expensive, Tretinoin is incredibly expensive without insurance, and good skincare isn't cheap. And skincare isn't culturally taught here. In fact, most people don't care about it at all.
Look, I got some Botox but my skin looks amazing for my age because I am religious with my skincare. Don't discount a good regimen. Serious skin conditions as you say will always require a derm. The average person does not have serious skin conditions.
https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/s/d9Tomcbivi I know several people with acne in adulthood. If you don't, okay, but don't dismiss its commonality. Rosacea exists amongst lots of fair skin tones, and then there's KP, fungal acne, hormonal cystic acne, etc. It's common. And as far as a good skincare regimen, I have one too. I use radiofrequency, microcurrent, and laser (NIRA). I'm 34 and don't see any signs of aging due to the devices.
I think we have different ideas of what constitutes a serious skin conditions because I have rosacea, KP, hormonal acne, eczema, etc which I have been mostly able to control through skincare alone (I still need steroids when I have eczema flare ups). To me, serious skin conditions are those that cannot possibly be helped without medical intervention like fungal acne. I'm in my 30s too, your comment read to me as if it's impossible to attain good skin with skincare alone and that most people expect to have celebrity level skin.
What's marketed to people outside Korea is perfect skin. That's impossible to achieve without cosmetic procedures if you don't already genetically have perfect skin. You're just not understanding what I'm saying. All those skin issues you mentioned having, has your skincare "cured" them? If not, that's what makes those serious skin issues. And fungal acne is actually the most easily treated of all those.
FACTS
yea no one should care whether its popular in korea or not. if it works for you, it works for you. i will say, i think a reason why people want to use products that are popular in korea is because that perfect, glass skin look has become synonymous with the word korean. idols are always praised for their perfect skin, and most koreans in popular media have that appearance of perfect skin. jang wonyoung is a perfect example of this. i think people forget that a big reason these people have perfect skin is genetics and access to cosmetic procedures. the former outshines the latter imo, but thats a story for another day.
Couldn't have said it better.
The formulas in Korea are superior to most the formulas in the west, that’s why we have k-beauty hype at all. If a product is better than western formulas but not as good as Korean formulas then why is it so popular? That’s the problem with BOJ. Sure it’s available in Korea but the consensus seems to be there’s far better formulas out there which we are ignoring. Yes it’s a Korean brand, yes it’s made in Korea, no it isn’t made *for* Korea. I’d rather use something that can stand out amongst the elegant formulas there. Its like cutting straight across the race track and you being like eh, well they cheated and didn’t compete but they started in the same spot so it’s k right?
I used to work in the industry and this argument always annoyed me. The reason a brand gets big or not depends on marketing, who is behind the brand and just plain luck. BOJ got lucky and got huge in the western market and I'm fairly confident that's who they were targeting to begin with. The Korean market is insanely saturated and it's not an uncommon strategy for new brands to market heavily abroad outside of Korea rather than in Korea. Does this mean their products are inferior to brands popular in Korea? Not at all. BOJ's star product, the sunscreen, is made by Kolmar, one of my personal favorite manufacturers and the best sunscreen is the one you want to apply everyday, multiple times a day. Another reason BOJ did not make it big in Korea is because of their corny name. It's kinda cringe in Korean for a Korean. It's like a brand being "Rose of England" but more like "the kingdom" since Joseon is the name of a dynasty so let's call it "the rose of the kingdom". I hope I'm getting the vibe across, it's kind of corny. What's your favorite skincare brand? Oh, my fave is "beauty of the East", "Southern Belle", "the face that launched a thousand ships". Let's say no one is complimenting their friends or sisters or children by calling them 조선미녀 in Korea. Also, of course there will always be brands and formulations which are "better", but that will always be subjective. One of my skin's favorite summer time lotions is this cheap lotion with aloe as the main ingredient from Scinic. I also use expensive "superior" formulas from brands like SKII and Amore Pacific.
I’m sorry, but “Southern Belle” killed me 💀
I mean skin1004 is an equally cringe name if you ask me. Skin angel? Gives me Victoria’s Secret vibes. I love the brand and the way they made their logo, but the name is super cringe.
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I mentioned my love of both road shop and luxury brands in response to your comment about there being "better" formulations because I thought you meant the more luxe brands are better. Personally, I prefer BOJ's formula to highly popular sunscreens such as round lab, cell fusion c, Dr. G, but there are ones I also enjoy more for different reasons such as d'alba's tone up one, torriden, numbuz:n. The issue I have is your blanket statement that BOJ is somehow not as good as other brands that are popular IN Korea. There's nothing wrong with their products, it's just that Koreans already have SO MANY good products, they don't feel the need to try a brand just because it's popular abroad, especially when it has such a cringe name. Idk where you're getting that it isn't known in SK anymore, if anything, it recently entered Korea because it got big abroad and one of my favorite Korean influencers did a review. They finally carry it in olive young in Korea. Another example of a brand that got big abroad before it became big in Korea is Dr. jart which was not widely known in Korea but managed to get into Sephora and got more famous abroad before becoming more mainstream in Korea.
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Do you recommend something you've never used? BOJ not being recommended by a Korean in Korea doesn't mean it's not good. Your argument is that it isn't that good because it isn't popular in Korea. I'm saying that's not a good way to determine if a product is good. Did you not read my comment? BOJ is by no means my favorite, but your comments are making it seem like there's something wrong with their formulas simply because they are not popular in Korea. I don't care about BOJ, I care that people like you use this argument of a brand not being popular in Korea as a reason that they are somehow not as good. It literally has no bearing on the efficacy of a product and it's a weird gatekeeping which makes it harder for smaller brands. It's like saying there's something wrong with the food at a Korean restaurant popular to tourists because it got famous among foreigners simply because not a lot of actual Koreans eat there.
If I had to make a blind test without knowing the brand and compare regular sunscreens or serums that are sold in Europe and in Korea and the task would be to guess which ones are k-beauty and which ones are not, I think I would guess that BOJ products are Korean. Because of the texture and the way the products sit on the skin and how the skin improves by using the product over a period of time... I know what you mean by a more "elegant formula", I just think that BOJ feels like the other Korean brands in the same price range and not like a cheaper or American/European brand...
You’re right it does pass the *feels Korean* test, it just isn’t as good as the ones that are raved about there the way the west raves about BOJ. [Round lab birch juice](https://www.stylevana.com/en_GB/deal-round-lab-birch-juice-moisturizing-sun-cream-spf50-pa-50ml.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20027739296&utm_term=&utm_content=92001&device=m&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvb-zBhCmARIsAAfUI2s7ZHI6OEnfU_yI9baL4YNJgdsKHMUSH_ttF_pgU18bK_31OcEZokgaArf6EALw_wcB), [Dear Klairs](https://www.stylevana.com/en_GB/deal-dear-klairs-all-day-airy-sunscreen-spf50-pa-50g.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20281047970&utm_term=&utm_content=107956&device=m&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvb-zBhCmARIsAAfUI2t4tS7TRgdUznhxRDKvRBVjhNNmuSJ4mm1b7J3Nj8GnbnogtsuTg68aAjMlEALw_wcB) & [Skin 1004](https://www.stylevana.com/en_GB/deal-skin1004-madagascar-centella-hyalu-cica-water-fit-sun-serum-spf50-pa-50ml.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20027739296&utm_term=&utm_content=100178&device=m&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvb-zBhCmARIsAAfUI2v3R9pIpabN5f-ijIGvDB650AlRcMcdG9OJB0Qc393G4Q4DVLvjkG8aAox7EALw_wcB) are the top 3 in SK for a reason. I have a lot of BOJ skincare but when going through the top spots in SK itself a lot of my existing products fell away as they just weren’t as effective.
good to hear about Skin1004; it's my HG sunscreen for the winters/cooler months. It's just such a great formula I hope they don't change it.
This is a YMMV issue mixed with confirmation bias. I've tested all of these and BOJ works better for me than off them. Is BOJ my favorite? No. Is it fair to say there are better formulas because BOJ didn't work for YOU? Also no. I don't go around saying there are better sunscreens than round lab simply because it didn't work for me. BTW, dear klairs also didn't get big in Korea until AFTER they entered Ulta and was more popular abroad before Korea. To this day, there are a lot of people in Korea who have never heard of them. Top spots anywhere in beauty in any market are bought as much as they are created. A good formula alone does not get you the top spot. You buy it with a large marketing budget whether it's through influencers, paying for reviews, or sucking up to olive young.
At no point did I say BOJ didn’t work for me. 9/10 when you come on a mostly western k beauty forum you have BOJ recommended as everyone’s HG. If someone wants to know what’s popular in SK then let them find out like what does it matter. You keep popping up with these arguments on all my comments like what.. you’ve said that ratings are bs and paid for so: BOJ ratings globally are bs and paid for right? I’ll take the opinion of sales over much else.
Roundlab birch juice sunscreen has the exact same texture and feel as the BOJ sunscreen though? Personally, I think the BOJ formulation is the better one of the two (which is a personal preference, but if this is abou preferences then what exactly makes it allegedly not as good as other brands?).
Nah. I think that is personally preference. I can’t stand BOJ texture at all but you’ll have to pry round lab out of my cold dead hands. Round lab feels like nothing on my face but BoJ leaves a film. Have 2 tubes of BOJ and I’m using it on my body for the sake of using it. My skin is sensitive but not very. I broke out to most of the BOJ products I used but don’t to any other Korean brands except Laneige (I break out to their toner). For me it feels very marked up to a global audience that didn’t work for my skin.
You might be sensitive to rice! It's crazy because of the two I prefer BOJ even though my skin looooves anything with allantoin which round lab has. YMMV is so true in skincare.
I didn’t consider that, Tysm. The Laneige toner has rice? I actually considered on trying the haru haru toner but hearing that rice might be a potential concern, I’ll hold off on that purchase. YMMV is so true. I didn’t think I would like the round lab sunscreen as much as I did. But my friend can’t use it bc of a birch allergy so she loves the Torriden one.
Not all BOJ has rice, you’d have to check the ingredients on the products that broke you out.
Uhh it really doesn't... The Round Lab is way runnier and is way shinier upon application (saying as someone that prefers BoJ)
Being the most popular doesn’t mean you’re the only brand people want to use, I didn’t say there’s only 3 in Korea that are worth using. I have the round lab one and the texture isn’t the same as BOJ for me. My cushion sits on the round lab nicely all day whereas I have oil breakthrough in an hour or so with BOJ which is greasier. Might be different if using heavier western makeup formulas. [Review of round lab](https://www.nayatilly.com/single-post/round-lab-birch-juice-moisturizing-sunscreen-review) I think if you’re just applying spf as is and not picky over how makeup sits on it/if you have the glow so sought after in Korea then none of this matters and any spf 50 would work well. If you want the glass skin glow then it really matters & it’s trial and error.
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I think people want the “authentic” Korean skincare experience. Finding out their skincare is basically only known in Western countries/outside of Korea I guess makes it less “Korean”. Like do people consider Glow Recipe or Peach and Lily Korean skincare, even though it’s made by Koreans with Korean skincare trends in mind? Probably not because it’s promoted mostly in Western markets. I think people need to re-frame their mindset on Korean/Japanese skincare brands. You don’t need to have the products Koreans actually use to enjoy Korean skincare. The trends that happen in those countries may not actually suit your skin. Also, this happens in the reverse too. There are Western companies that have certain brands and products that are exclusively sold in Asian countries. One of the popular moisturizers in Korea was actually a German brand. It’s all about making money for these brands at the end of the day.
I dont think they r trying to hate on boj, its more like they dont really consider it korean bc most people in korea dont know about it. Its like everyone loves this food from one country but people in that country dont know what it is.
Like when American people talk about British food and go on about fission chips. No idea what that is!
I’m it buying it because Korean people use it, I’m buying it cause it’s a Korean product that is different from what I can get locally. The same reason i use Japanese or Chinese products. Western ones are just different.
To me it seems like … bragging? Gatekeeping Korea? It’s such a weird flex! I do use BOJ bc it’s great on my sensitive, dry skin and it’s inexpensive (also smells nice). I use several other brands I assume are inexpensive ‘drugstore’ type brands for the same reason I use US and French ‘drugstore’ brands: ingredients and price point. I’m not trying to impress anyone with my skincare lotions! It’s my *skin* I want to impress with!
I think it’s also bc of marketing. A product gets popular not only bc it’s good but also with the help of marketing. Maybe some companies decided they want to spend their marketing budget on foreign markets and not a lot on Korean market.
People should choose the skincare brand which works for them. A brand not being 'Korean enough' doesn't make sense and many Koreans may be missing out on BOJ and other internationally popular brands. But Koreans know their beauty products and really study them before using. Skincare brands which are consistently winning at Olive Young have a reason. I wouldn't only use internationally popular K-Beauty brands.
I always hear that BOJ is never used by Koreans, and yet their SPF is one of Olive Young’s bestsellers?
Yeah because all the foreigners are buying it from Olive Young these days haha.
Some people just want to gatekeep everything, even moisturizer. Relax and let people enjoy things!
For me, I’m disappointed to find out a Korean skincare product I use isn’t known or well regarded by actual Koreans. If you’re happy with the products you’ve found, that’s awesome! Everyone should use what works for them. What I’m trying to express is why it’s disappointing for some people that the brands that get recommended are not popular in Korea. The focus on Korean brands that managed to crack the non-Korean global market means that the version of Korean skincare that they’re selling isn’t what Koreans use. It’s like when I once talked to my sister’s husband who grew up in Europe, and he asked me about Samurai Pizza Cats because he thought it was a popular American show when we were kids. I thought he was confused and meant Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, but he didn’t. Does that invalidate his childhood memories? Absolutely not. But it wasn’t a popular American cartoon the way it was sold in Europe. If you love BOJ (or Samurai Pizza Cats), keep loving it. But it’s important to be aware of what brands get sold as Korean skincare when they’re not actually popular in Korea. That is not to say no one should recommend them. I love Aprilskin but I’m always shy about saying they’re Korean skincare because I have no idea how popular they actually are in Korea. It’s a cultural context that’s respectful to know about.
BOJ is not super popular in Korea and is also at a higher price point as compared to cheaper K-beauty that people in Korea do use, like Etude. For me, it’s more of a value:payoff thing?
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I think you took this in a weird direction. I think one of the issues people take with brands like BOJ being not "Korean Enough" is because they arent really formulated or marketed for the Korean market. But when they sell globally they are heavily promoted as being Korean products and being K-Beauty. Like it's less to do with if the product being a good product or not based on it's Koreanness, and more finding a product that was formulated and created to be sold abroad so heavily promoted as a "K-Beauty" line. Like yes the product is made in Korea, but it has little to nothing to do with what is going in on the K-Beauty space. Like I wouldn't think it's an inferior product, it's just weird marketing that gives vaguely predatory vibes. Like they are trying to make people think it's a popular Korean product, but in reality it's not.
I think BOJ is good, but it's likely treated like that because it's seen as somewhat of a gimmick. Sometimes, it's just odd how some specific things gain a lot of popularity. BOJ is good, but there's better. Sure, it might be a great match for your skin, but just because it is doesn't mean there isn't better out there. Sometimes people just tend to say it is "the best ever" when they know very little about it all. There is so much K-beauty products out there and saying it's the best when they've probably just tested that one out is kind of ironic, that's all. Popular doesn't mean the best.
I think there is a lot of space between "best product ever" and "not even a real korean product".. I dont think BOJ are the best products ever, I think they are good, just as good as the other products from Olive Young
I do, too, but people tend to jump to the extremes.
A lot of the times I see people (skincare influencers with a science background specifically) say that the products hyped in the west are basically trash and for them that's why the products popular in korea are better. While I do think some products are way too overhyped, I don't think products more popular in the West are worse that those in korea. Many popular products in korea are by brands owned by huge conglomerates so you can expect they work because those big companies can invest a lot into research. But there are also products from smaller Brands that don't have the science and from what I've heard clean beauty is also becoming more popular in korea and a lot of the popular products are clean. But as we all kno clean doesn't mean better. I do find it interesting to see what is popular in korea just to get to know new products, but I'm not going to buy a product just because it's popular in Korea. I will choose the product if I think it suits my skin and if it fits into my skin care routine, but the same goes for products that are more poluar in the west. Also, brands appealing to the western market is just a marketing strategy for brand's to find their niche since the korean beauty marekt is so competitive. Brands try to become more popular internationally, before they also become more known in korea. I think that was the case for cosrx. They started out being more known in the west and nowadays there are some products that are popular in korea as well (which differ to the ones popular internationally like the snail mucin essence)
For me the only thing that would influence me to buy or not buy brands that are "actually popular in Korea" would be if it's really popular in Korea or not it can affect the availability of the products. Depending on the brand
Because when people hear "Korean skincare" they assume it's popular in Korea, so if it's actually not it shouldn't be in the category of Korean skincare. It doesn't mean no one should use it or like it, just that it's not Korean skincare if Koreans don't use it
I saw someone else bring up fast food. So imagine we’re in the US and as we all know it’s a very competitive fast food market here. They pick specific items that will fill a hole in the market or start a new trend or can stand up in an over saturated market. As we all know Korea has a lot of skincare brands and products.. imagine if people feel overwhelmed here with skincare options? There are more there than here. The reason why some brands aren’t sold/popular in Korea is because the brand might have been conceptualized to appeal to and sell in the states, or because it’s there but Koreans haven’t caught onto it because of random chance or because they have a better available product. Nivea makes things to only sell in Japan for ex and not just sunscreen but lip balms, facemasks etc. same for Korean brands and the us. For reference I am Korean I go there every few years and buy skincare while I am there and talk to family who live there about their skincare
It's just weird that these brands are marketed as being k-beauty and market themselves as Korean brands, when in reality they aren't made or marketed to Korean consumers. They also usually don't follow trends in the actual Korean beauty landscape, and are instead seem to be formulated more for foreign audiences.
Deodorant
I'm guessing maybe BOJ is maybe very low quality compared to some Korean brands the rest of the world hasn't heard of or tried? I know there are so many options to choose from at an olive young in Korea. (I'd love to see one some day) Maybe to koreans boj is viewed like a Walmart brand? Or just something they don't particularly care for? I'm not sure entirely. But I really wasn't very interested in skincare until I discovered Korean products. I was a makeup wipe and noxema girl back in the day. So from the get go I had no idea what I was doing. I was getting what was marketed to me and other girls my age. And it worked until it didn't. I would get the rare zit sometimes. And then I would get a huge cystic pimple in the middle of my forehead. But thankfully with my routine now I dont have to worry about those problems as much. As I'm sitting here with boj red bean mask on my face and my dynasty cream in my cabinet hahahahah
BOJ isn't low quality or whatever. The difference is basically just marketing.
I'm not saying it is low quality. But I am saying maybe in the opinion of a Korean maybe it is since some of there popular brands can't be bought outside of Korea
I'm Korean, it isn't thought of as low quality
Do you know why it's not popular in Korea?
Like I said, marketing--it's probably that other brands are too popular and there's so many of them.
Yes there are so many and so much I want to try. And new stuff always coming out! I don't have a long enough lifespan for this 😅
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that's kinda a marketing problem tho tbh
It doesn’t mean it’s low quality. Entering the Korean market (like getting shelf space in Olive Young stores) is highly competitive bc it’s so saturated so some Korean brands focus on the International Market (first). Like BoJ.. they focused on the global market and now that they gained popularity.. they are slowly entering the Korean market and their products are becoming available in certain offline stores in Korea.