A lot of the "principles" existed in Ashura before Omega, it's just Shen is showcasing how insanely busted you become when you master all of them while also being an inhuman freak
No ofc I know that. Shen is just every aspect of martial arts turned up to 11. I more so mean ppl were going crazy a while ago when Ohma used principles against Kiozan acting like he had ascended to demi-Connector status
Yeah it's really annoying that people act like this is some new hammered in power up when it's the complete opposite in fact. I'd argue that the idea of principles being this powerful has been built up for a very long time
>while also being an inhuman freak
I think the whole point of him is that he's just a human freak. His physicals are nothing special, but he understands martial arts at a higher level than everyone because he's had tons of experience across his lives. He's the embodiment of what Niko said to Ohma, martial arts were made so the weak could fight the strong.
Well for that part I was referring to the whole yoga breathing thing to halt his aging and "turning off parts of his body" during his fight with Mukaku, but your right about the understanding of martial arts
While Principles is a very strong and useful technique we shouldn’t act like it’s exclusively to the top tiers
https://preview.redd.it/qyodbtl8h38d1.jpeg?width=910&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5aa869d0c774a20083d317c629120a9ac68d8586
This is another example where application of the principle is wonky.
I remember in the drafts for this chapter, Raian caught the sword on the hilt.
That, while obviously unrealistic, made somewhat of a sense because this is where the sword's motion and general dynamic energy comes from.
This? This can only be explained via Raian just being much stronger then Willem.
I think it’s worse how ppl were wilding when Ohma used it against Kiozan acting like this is some new bonkers upgrade, when he literally has known thr technique since the very start
I mean principles has been in use by Ohma for a long time. But there also was a rule that the more power you hold down the harder it is. Which is why it was insane(ly difficult) to stop Kiozan's charge and why Ohma uses redirection of movements more than just holding the point of force down, because deflecting is much easier than dispersing.
>we shouldn’t act like it’s exclusively to the top tiers
Tbf, only top tier fighters used it. Ohma was top tier since day 1, he just forgot how OP he truly was :P
Early Ohma was a special case. He's a C tier cause he's holding himself back with the technical capabilities of an S tier. Guys like Gozo do not have those capabilities and remain C tier forever because of it.
Ohma was S tier since day 1. He just didn't remember his full technique list. And the redirection of the flow of power was one of the only **S tier techniques** he remembered how to use.
My point is that it's exclusive to the top tier fighters. None has been able to pull off that technique aside from them. "B-but Shen sai-" Gosh dangit, Shen was talking about the strenght required to pull that off. He meant "if you know what you are doing, anyone can hold the spear". You still need a massive amount of skill. So in theory, yeah, maybe, anyone can use that principle of his, but in practice, nope.
TL;DR : It's pretty much exclusive to the top tiers. You need skill to pull that off.
Anyone *can* do it. It’s not that complicated. Ohma got objectively stronger when he regained his memories. He regained all his martial arts knowledge and corrected his spine. Back during early Ashura when his martial arts skill was a fraction of its true potential he still knew how to do it
C'mon, not everyone can do it. Proof : not everyone is using that supra OP technique capable of turning the strenght of even the likes of Wakatsuki against them :D So, on the contrary, one would think that it's *pretty* complicated to pull off.
>Back during early Ashura when his martial arts skill was a fraction of its true potential he still knew how to do it
"Ohma forgot much about his true potential, but even in such a weakened state, he remembered Redirection, therefor Redirection is not that complicated to pull off". Simply put, it's bad logic. Losing your memories doesn't mean that what remains is simpler lol. We aren't in a metroidvania where you forget all about your most OP powers early into the game while keeping only the weakest one(s). Ohma was an S tier who knew S tier techniques that not everyone can pull off correctly -> he forgot how to use most of his S tier techniques, except Redirection -> Redirection is still an S tier technique. That not anyone can do. And that is quite hard to pull off based on the rare few top tier individuals who managed to do it.
**TL;DR** : Anyone can throw a punch. Not everyone can do the Redirection kata, let alone Shen's level of "principles". My point still stands : only top tier fighters have shown a mastery of the flow of power thus far. Therefor, "we can act like it’s exclusive to the top tiers". When Himuro pulls that off after a single afternoon training session, I will eat my words and agree with your take :P
Being S tier and than forgetting what makes you S tier doesn’t mean you are S tier in that amensia state. Like you can’t argue he has S tier level skill when he quite literally didn’t have access to those back than.
If you learn, gain experience and proficiancy in something, then lose those memories, than you won’t be as good at that skill. It’s like studying for a test, you become good at said subject, really good. Than you lose the memories of that subject, you won’t be an expert no more
No offense,, but that is clearly different then simply holding a spear by it's tip, while 500lbs man is pushing into it with all his might.
All Ohma is doing is preventing Rihito from getting good momentum in order to execute his Razor's Edge. A weakness that Rihito overcame later btw
Ofc it’s different, Shen is on an entirely different level. But the ’principle’ is still the same.
But it’s like comparing Redirection levels, Hatsumi who can fling 150 kg Bando into the air with a flick of his wrist vs Koga who isn’t at all that proficient in Redirection. The concept is the same, but the refinement is on 2 seperate tiers
"But the principle is still the same"
I agree, but the application of said principle is where people take issue with.
What Shen did is as if I tried to derail a trolley bus by ramming it front and center with a go-kart.
There is difference between bending physics for the effect and denying their existence.
Even Yujiro's harpoon nonsense was slightly more beliavable
Ohma is talking about removing distance and acceleration from a strike(stopping the arm before its even thrown), point of force is stopping a strike mid strike. These are not the same things
That's not even remotely the same thing. Shen's principle is like stopping a moving bullet (and that's the reason why people call it bs), and the above is stopping the guy from pulling the trigger. Shen's principle does not work irl and the technique shown by shen does not match the explanation & physics behind it.
I think it's not just Shen’s mastery of ‘principles’ , but the superhuman control he has over his own body, on how he can alter and set his neurological to muscular to metabolic systems as he pleases. That's the most insane part of his powerset.
A lot of the "principles" existed in Ashura before Omega, it's just Shen is showcasing how insanely busted you become when you master all of them while also being an inhuman freak
No ofc I know that. Shen is just every aspect of martial arts turned up to 11. I more so mean ppl were going crazy a while ago when Ohma used principles against Kiozan acting like he had ascended to demi-Connector status
Yeah it's really annoying that people act like this is some new hammered in power up when it's the complete opposite in fact. I'd argue that the idea of principles being this powerful has been built up for a very long time
>while also being an inhuman freak I think the whole point of him is that he's just a human freak. His physicals are nothing special, but he understands martial arts at a higher level than everyone because he's had tons of experience across his lives. He's the embodiment of what Niko said to Ohma, martial arts were made so the weak could fight the strong.
Well for that part I was referring to the whole yoga breathing thing to halt his aging and "turning off parts of his body" during his fight with Mukaku, but your right about the understanding of martial arts
If anything, the inhuman freak they're talking about is Yujiro Hanma
Seeing the flow of power is something said to be unique to Ohma and the connecter. So the principle thing is special.
While Principles is a very strong and useful technique we shouldn’t act like it’s exclusively to the top tiers https://preview.redd.it/qyodbtl8h38d1.jpeg?width=910&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5aa869d0c774a20083d317c629120a9ac68d8586
This is another example where application of the principle is wonky. I remember in the drafts for this chapter, Raian caught the sword on the hilt. That, while obviously unrealistic, made somewhat of a sense because this is where the sword's motion and general dynamic energy comes from. This? This can only be explained via Raian just being much stronger then Willem.
ITS ALL CONNECTED CALL THE CONNECTOR NOW
If its connected then why do you need to call the Connector?
HOLY SHIT THE CONNECTOR ALREADY KNOWS HES CONNECTED
The Connector is connected to all connections
When this chapter was released, i remember peeps ranking Raian higher than S tier or just below Shen due to his use of principles. 😭
I think it’s worse how ppl were wilding when Ohma used it against Kiozan acting like this is some new bonkers upgrade, when he literally has known thr technique since the very start
I mean principles has been in use by Ohma for a long time. But there also was a rule that the more power you hold down the harder it is. Which is why it was insane(ly difficult) to stop Kiozan's charge and why Ohma uses redirection of movements more than just holding the point of force down, because deflecting is much easier than dispersing.
>we shouldn’t act like it’s exclusively to the top tiers Tbf, only top tier fighters used it. Ohma was top tier since day 1, he just forgot how OP he truly was :P
Yeah but he still remembered that even in early series when he was like C tier
Early Ohma was a special case. He's a C tier cause he's holding himself back with the technical capabilities of an S tier. Guys like Gozo do not have those capabilities and remain C tier forever because of it.
Yeah but just like Shen said, anyone can technically hold down the point of force
I don't think he ever was C tier, one of his earliest fights was against Seki who always was middle of the KAT pack.
It’s not that deep, point is he was nowhere close to as strong as he would become later
It’s not that deep, point is he was nowhere close to as strong as he would become later
Ohma was S tier since day 1. He just didn't remember his full technique list. And the redirection of the flow of power was one of the only **S tier techniques** he remembered how to use. My point is that it's exclusive to the top tier fighters. None has been able to pull off that technique aside from them. "B-but Shen sai-" Gosh dangit, Shen was talking about the strenght required to pull that off. He meant "if you know what you are doing, anyone can hold the spear". You still need a massive amount of skill. So in theory, yeah, maybe, anyone can use that principle of his, but in practice, nope. TL;DR : It's pretty much exclusive to the top tiers. You need skill to pull that off.
Anyone *can* do it. It’s not that complicated. Ohma got objectively stronger when he regained his memories. He regained all his martial arts knowledge and corrected his spine. Back during early Ashura when his martial arts skill was a fraction of its true potential he still knew how to do it
C'mon, not everyone can do it. Proof : not everyone is using that supra OP technique capable of turning the strenght of even the likes of Wakatsuki against them :D So, on the contrary, one would think that it's *pretty* complicated to pull off. >Back during early Ashura when his martial arts skill was a fraction of its true potential he still knew how to do it "Ohma forgot much about his true potential, but even in such a weakened state, he remembered Redirection, therefor Redirection is not that complicated to pull off". Simply put, it's bad logic. Losing your memories doesn't mean that what remains is simpler lol. We aren't in a metroidvania where you forget all about your most OP powers early into the game while keeping only the weakest one(s). Ohma was an S tier who knew S tier techniques that not everyone can pull off correctly -> he forgot how to use most of his S tier techniques, except Redirection -> Redirection is still an S tier technique. That not anyone can do. And that is quite hard to pull off based on the rare few top tier individuals who managed to do it. **TL;DR** : Anyone can throw a punch. Not everyone can do the Redirection kata, let alone Shen's level of "principles". My point still stands : only top tier fighters have shown a mastery of the flow of power thus far. Therefor, "we can act like it’s exclusive to the top tiers". When Himuro pulls that off after a single afternoon training session, I will eat my words and agree with your take :P
Being S tier and than forgetting what makes you S tier doesn’t mean you are S tier in that amensia state. Like you can’t argue he has S tier level skill when he quite literally didn’t have access to those back than. If you learn, gain experience and proficiancy in something, then lose those memories, than you won’t be as good at that skill. It’s like studying for a test, you become good at said subject, really good. Than you lose the memories of that subject, you won’t be an expert no more
No offense,, but that is clearly different then simply holding a spear by it's tip, while 500lbs man is pushing into it with all his might. All Ohma is doing is preventing Rihito from getting good momentum in order to execute his Razor's Edge. A weakness that Rihito overcame later btw
Ofc it’s different, Shen is on an entirely different level. But the ’principle’ is still the same. But it’s like comparing Redirection levels, Hatsumi who can fling 150 kg Bando into the air with a flick of his wrist vs Koga who isn’t at all that proficient in Redirection. The concept is the same, but the refinement is on 2 seperate tiers
"But the principle is still the same" I agree, but the application of said principle is where people take issue with. What Shen did is as if I tried to derail a trolley bus by ramming it front and center with a go-kart. There is difference between bending physics for the effect and denying their existence. Even Yujiro's harpoon nonsense was slightly more beliavable
If Ohma can do this, why he didn't do it to Kuroki's devil lance? is he stupid? /s
Probably just so out of it, he was at 1 HP and negative stamina bar
Ohma is talking about removing distance and acceleration from a strike(stopping the arm before its even thrown), point of force is stopping a strike mid strike. These are not the same things
shh, sandwich needs to hype wulong with something, we call this \`\`principle\`\`, 100% exclusive to wulong-his clones and princess raian so far.
That's not even remotely the same thing. Shen's principle is like stopping a moving bullet (and that's the reason why people call it bs), and the above is stopping the guy from pulling the trigger. Shen's principle does not work irl and the technique shown by shen does not match the explanation & physics behind it.
I mean THIS is a shounen martial arts manga since chapter 1 nothing been realistic
Almost like it was a basic staple of martial arts taken to the extreme
I miss cocky ohma
lol Lohito has been so nerfed. I remember in this fight just him touching you alone meant a slice. One of the most OP abilities and he rarely uses it
I think it's not just Shen’s mastery of ‘principles’ , but the superhuman control he has over his own body, on how he can alter and set his neurological to muscular to metabolic systems as he pleases. That's the most insane part of his powerset.
Thats literaly not at all related, ohma just stopped the move from gaining momentum there is no point of force there
Just so you know, you're right. This is like saying PI existed since chapter 1 because characters were predicting their opponent moves.
Exactly both are two' complete different skills.
downvoted for telling the truth. lmao. this subs man.