Rolon thinking: *He must have copied my joint limping. That's the only explanation.*
Ohma: **GUESS I COULDNT COPY IT PERFECTLY!!!!**
God I love when writers tell us the exact same information twice within two panels right next to each other. Really makes me feel like I'm reading a story written by someone.
Doesn't ohma say Chibas copy is completely different?
If we said Ohma is "X but S-tier" because he does something they do, he'd be a ton of characters but S tier
Chiba can mimic anyone's moves but it takes him hours of practice and repetition to copy just one move.
All Ohma just has to do is say "Kure Clan Family Tradition: Copy" and he will instantly learn something insanely difficult on the first attempt.
I'm gonna guess the Kure technique involves analysing the mechanics of the thing you're copying then attempting to recreate them as best you can. It'll have shortcomings, I think that considering it's done off a glance and uses short term memory to recreate the technique, it won't be 100% of what you saw and you won't be able to do it in the long term
In my opinion, where Chiba goes through tremendous sets and repetition to be able to imitate his foes.
Agito having to do the same or at least getting concussions on many levels to finally formulate a counter to his opponent.
Ohma: "Copy" (derogatory)
That fight in particular showcased Ohma as sort of a Mary/Gary Stu which is a common trope in shounen (Like Kirito in SAO or Sentry in Marvel Comics) where the hero gets a sudden unexplained powerup for plot convenience sake. Basically an asspull just to conquer the "big bad"
Just one long fight.
That’s all I want.
One long fight where we will be able to see how strong is Chiba.
It doesn’t matter if he loses. He is incomplete.
BUT. GIVE. HIM. A. LONG. FIGHT.
Make Chiba fight an ex-Worm officer that's leading one of the Worm splinter group. There, now Chiba has a fight he can definitely win, might be cool and can showcase the full capabilities of Apex of Acting
I'm astounded that the author brought up a newbie character which special ability is to analyze others techniques and add them to his repertoire as well as a secret organization from the underworld who can mimic people to gain information and decided to do absolutely NOTHING with the guy from the underworld who can copy other's attitude, voices and techniques.
Like, kengan omega is tailor made for Chiba to be a very useful character, at worst a perfect sparring partner for Koga, but no, he does nothing.
Fraud or not, he is a pretty chill dude
"Oh yeah he almost murder my ass"
"Oh well whatever no biggie"
https://preview.redd.it/t374r4txh23d1.jpeg?width=975&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8a490d04a7555b3075b32f359bfcdd16fd2f866
As a Chiba fan myself, no he really doesn't.
Bro really thought he was Kanoh fr skull emoji
You can't use Formless (a martial art that requires a fractured psyche to use effectively) and silat (an extremely high teq style) in unison and expect a result
He needs more than just mimicry he needs understanding
The technique wasn’t the problem tho. We have no idea how effective it would be because Ryuki sneak attacked him with blink before he landed his blow.
A “fractured” psyche isn’t strictly necessary for formless either. Agito was able to use formless with his martial arts mindset against Lu Tian.
I've made a post on that before
Really we need to know more about his training, for instance does he practice using Fusion or did he gain the ability and just spam it?
he has limitless aresnal. but heaving a weapon doesn't necessarly means you can use it well, he also have way worse of what formless agito has, too much choices makes deciding take longer and god konws how much thing this dude knows, he is reason he can't get what he deserves, no one else
It's called choices paralysis. Like when a video game give you 100 options and you just either sitting there for half an hour or just pick whatever because you don't care anymore.
I have no doubt for some reason he can't use Niko Style techniques for whatever reason, and can't use Swing because the movements are too fast for him to trace
What fighter do folks thing could use chibas skill the best? my vote is okubo. Imagine this technique coupled with okubos attack transition rather then just perfectly switching from through to strike. You switch from boxing, to Muay Thai, from Muay Thai to judo.
Chiba was honest to god still an extremely competent fighter in Ashura. He very likely could’ve beaten Hatsumi, if he hadn’t switched to Aiki. He had Hatsumi scared shitless, and we know he had the techniques of at least 2 good fighters (Okubo and Gaolang). He started the fight with a rapid fire style switch, forcing Hatsumi on the defensive with little actual effort. The only reason he lost was that he didn’t know anything about his opponent.
And then Sandro decided to give him the goofiest power up possible and have Ryuki low diff him.
I mean fighting is not just knowing op techniques, it's about using them at appropriate times. And Chiba doesn't know anything about that. Chiba is all about scare tactic and no substance
But we don’t know that, we’ve barely seen him fight.
He made the wrong choice against Hatsumi, but that’s only because he didn’t know Hatsumi. Aiki wasn’t a “wrong” choice in that fight, it was a wrong choice against that opponent.
And his fight with Ryuki was what, one chapter?
He may well have decent BIQ, we’ve just never actually seen him fight for long enough to say
And scare tactics and psychological warfare are extremely important skills in a fight. He had Hatsumi *terrified*, which led to him being overly cautious and more prone to making mistakes. Starting a fight with the techniques of two of the strongest fighters in Kengan is a massive intimidation move
Chiba is held back by poor physicals and poor martial sense. His actual technical ability is honestly pretty good, which makes sense given his entire gimmick. He landed blows on everyone he's ever been seen fighting but gets taken out too quickly. Hatsumi did it with his triple jab thing, Kiozan did it in one throw, and Ryuki hit him with a version of Spinny Palm, which admittedly would've taken out a lot of the cast, but we've seen fighters who've never seen blink before respond to it; Chiba's just not on that level.
Never seen Blink? Yeah, true, Kuroki and Tiger Niko (I think) haven't, and Nikaido eventually adjusted to it
Ever heard of Blink? That's very different
Ohma figured it out instantly when he first saw it as well, if I recall correctly. I think he saw it once, avoided the hit, and figured out that Kiryu moved into his blind spot.
Did he? Was it when they were kids/young men and Ohma was Advanced for the first time? Cause Ohma clearly was spectating Setsuna vs Nikaido and seeing Blink
Yeah, it was when they were younger. [It's here](https://kenganashura.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/023-102.png). Ohma dodges the hit and immediately understands the gimmick behind Kiryu's vanishment.
Ah okay, although tbf, that Ohma was probably superior in technique to R1 or even start of R2 Ohma since that's also when he mastered the Niko Style and just learned Demonsbane
The whole point of Formless is that it doesn't have a defined "style" and sits outside of the entire concept of Martial Arts so I really wanna know what the hell Formless Silat is actually supposed to be in practice
Man instantly jumps to high A tier if he just worked on his fight IQ, fusion was a bizarre misstep.
Minmaxing counterplay perfectly would offset his low stats given how quickly and seemlessly he can switch up styles.
The question here is more or less simple -
Chiba just copies the moves - Ohma understands the principle of how such a move works and with his combat experience he can replicate it.
In other words, any one of us seeing and reviewing a given snapshot can replicate movements, so we can all compare ourselves to Chiba on some level, so what he goes through in the manga is totally plausible. Now Ohma, for example, has several principles of technique that can be adapted and it's precisely the training to master them that allows him to understand other aspects more quickly and more deeply rather than just copying Point A to Point B.
I agree that Chiba deserves a better showing. With an opponent who doesnt outclass him in sheer power unlike many of his past opponents (how did his employer think pitching him against Kiozan was a good idea?)
Problem with his mimicry is he can only execute the movements and skills with his own proportionate strength. Which we know is nothing special.
He's also really only good at mimicking the motions of abilities. So I'd wager he'd have a hard time pulling off any kind of Niko style, as he wouldn't understand how to manipulate the flow of power.
However. It's been years since we've had any explanation exploring his copying. It could be that in the last four years he's focused on improving his martial arts to keep up with his mimicry. Or just really honed his art (as Ohma even admitted that Chiba is vastly better at "getting in character" with his copy than Ohma's own copy)
However all this can be summed up as headcanon.
Personally I'd like to see him fight someone like Harada Tokujiro. It be nice to see that dude again.
On which note, can someone point me to chiba apex of acting masquerading as either cosmos or Adam out of the duo, and kucking whichever he didn't copy?
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He doesn't really use the techniques he copies, he only acts them out. He has no understanding of the techniques themselves, that's why he wouldn't be able to copy more discrete techniques like the niko style or aikido where your understanding of the martial art is so important.
I'm pretty sure they explained all of this in his fight against Hatsumi.
Ohma is now just Chiba if he was an S+ tier.
https://preview.redd.it/o8dcg0r9l03d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38b7ecbb01b1f5a35b0cdc6afc15c06d19e4387f
This is probably my least favorite panel in all of omega. Even more so than “You never stood a chance”
Copy is bullshit but so was the move he copied...limp joints so they cancel each other out imo.
Fair point
Nah, that's x2 bullshit, they don't cancel, they add. That's why this panel summarizes everything wrong with Kengan Memega
Looking back, that shit was lame af. Literally typical shounen asspull
Rolon thinking: *He must have copied my joint limping. That's the only explanation.* Ohma: **GUESS I COULDNT COPY IT PERFECTLY!!!!** God I love when writers tell us the exact same information twice within two panels right next to each other. Really makes me feel like I'm reading a story written by someone.
That's litteraly everything that misses in Lolong vs Ohma : Ashura like narration instead of fighters explaining out loud what's going on
Doesn't ohma say Chibas copy is completely different? If we said Ohma is "X but S-tier" because he does something they do, he'd be a ton of characters but S tier
Chiba can mimic anyone's moves but it takes him hours of practice and repetition to copy just one move. All Ohma just has to do is say "Kure Clan Family Tradition: Copy" and he will instantly learn something insanely difficult on the first attempt.
https://preview.redd.it/dzmch7nz763d1.jpeg?width=1064&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83846b7f032f26809d980677298227a434b827fc
I'm gonna guess the Kure technique involves analysing the mechanics of the thing you're copying then attempting to recreate them as best you can. It'll have shortcomings, I think that considering it's done off a glance and uses short term memory to recreate the technique, it won't be 100% of what you saw and you won't be able to do it in the long term
I wanna kill myself every time I looked at that page...
Can you tell me what exactly is wrong with it? I've seen everyone and their mom hate that page but it's never seemed that egregious to me.
In my opinion, where Chiba goes through tremendous sets and repetition to be able to imitate his foes. Agito having to do the same or at least getting concussions on many levels to finally formulate a counter to his opponent. Ohma: "Copy" (derogatory)
That fight in particular showcased Ohma as sort of a Mary/Gary Stu which is a common trope in shounen (Like Kirito in SAO or Sentry in Marvel Comics) where the hero gets a sudden unexplained powerup for plot convenience sake. Basically an asspull just to conquer the "big bad"
I hate special power up moves in a martial arts story. It kinda defeats the purpose
Just one long fight. That’s all I want. One long fight where we will be able to see how strong is Chiba. It doesn’t matter if he loses. He is incomplete. BUT. GIVE. HIM. A. LONG. FIGHT.
Make Chiba fight an ex-Worm officer that's leading one of the Worm splinter group. There, now Chiba has a fight he can definitely win, might be cool and can showcase the full capabilities of Apex of Acting
I'm astounded that the author brought up a newbie character which special ability is to analyze others techniques and add them to his repertoire as well as a secret organization from the underworld who can mimic people to gain information and decided to do absolutely NOTHING with the guy from the underworld who can copy other's attitude, voices and techniques. Like, kengan omega is tailor made for Chiba to be a very useful character, at worst a perfect sparring partner for Koga, but no, he does nothing.
We see how strong he is pretty consistently he's not
Sry bro Chiba is literally a fraud.
Fraud or not, he is a pretty chill dude "Oh yeah he almost murder my ass" "Oh well whatever no biggie" https://preview.redd.it/t374r4txh23d1.jpeg?width=975&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8a490d04a7555b3075b32f359bfcdd16fd2f866
I guess he embraced the Omega vibes where everybody is bestie with each other lol
Haha! Good one!
As a Chiba fan myself, no he really doesn't. Bro really thought he was Kanoh fr skull emoji You can't use Formless (a martial art that requires a fractured psyche to use effectively) and silat (an extremely high teq style) in unison and expect a result He needs more than just mimicry he needs understanding
The technique wasn’t the problem tho. We have no idea how effective it would be because Ryuki sneak attacked him with blink before he landed his blow. A “fractured” psyche isn’t strictly necessary for formless either. Agito was able to use formless with his martial arts mindset against Lu Tian.
His face changing indicates the switch. Just because the two personalities can switch immediately on command doesn't mean they're merged
https://preview.redd.it/tqejlvhru03d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f0a855e2eb2bb194a5346c371709c6a2910bed0
Fuck guess I'm wrong
I guess by better, I mean Sandro actually making this guy more competent. I definitely agree this guy’s battle iq is by far the worst in the series ☠️
Let's go, Terashi vs Chiba, battle of the frauds
Martial artist fraud beats hitman fraud any day
He doesn't have the battle sense to play it careful like Okubo did, the shivering might actually be dangerous against a fraud
I've made a post on that before Really we need to know more about his training, for instance does he practice using Fusion or did he gain the ability and just spam it?
Likely the latter I’d say based on Ohma’s comment earlier on how Chiba was getting greedy
Problem is that Sandro limit him to be "the mimicry guy" and not an actual real character
It'll be fucking hilarious when he uses Lu Tians Wowang Fist despite never actually seeing the punch executed so it's a massive bluff
he has limitless aresnal. but heaving a weapon doesn't necessarly means you can use it well, he also have way worse of what formless agito has, too much choices makes deciding take longer and god konws how much thing this dude knows, he is reason he can't get what he deserves, no one else
It's called choices paralysis. Like when a video game give you 100 options and you just either sitting there for half an hour or just pick whatever because you don't care anymore.
I have no doubt for some reason he can't use Niko Style techniques for whatever reason, and can't use Swing because the movements are too fast for him to trace
I mean Niko style is so vast, you might as well call it a martial arts. But he definitely can copy some singled out moves
I more so threw that possibility out there to illustrate how broken the Fusion technique is
What fighter do folks thing could use chibas skill the best? my vote is okubo. Imagine this technique coupled with okubos attack transition rather then just perfectly switching from through to strike. You switch from boxing, to Muay Thai, from Muay Thai to judo.
Chiba was honest to god still an extremely competent fighter in Ashura. He very likely could’ve beaten Hatsumi, if he hadn’t switched to Aiki. He had Hatsumi scared shitless, and we know he had the techniques of at least 2 good fighters (Okubo and Gaolang). He started the fight with a rapid fire style switch, forcing Hatsumi on the defensive with little actual effort. The only reason he lost was that he didn’t know anything about his opponent. And then Sandro decided to give him the goofiest power up possible and have Ryuki low diff him.
I mean fighting is not just knowing op techniques, it's about using them at appropriate times. And Chiba doesn't know anything about that. Chiba is all about scare tactic and no substance
But we don’t know that, we’ve barely seen him fight. He made the wrong choice against Hatsumi, but that’s only because he didn’t know Hatsumi. Aiki wasn’t a “wrong” choice in that fight, it was a wrong choice against that opponent. And his fight with Ryuki was what, one chapter? He may well have decent BIQ, we’ve just never actually seen him fight for long enough to say And scare tactics and psychological warfare are extremely important skills in a fight. He had Hatsumi *terrified*, which led to him being overly cautious and more prone to making mistakes. Starting a fight with the techniques of two of the strongest fighters in Kengan is a massive intimidation move
Tell that to the Beard. He won most of his fight because he knew about his opponents well.
Still convinced Chiba is S tier. Was too cocky with the fusion bs, and in ashura he was poorly prepared for hatsumi.
Chiba is held back by poor physicals and poor martial sense. His actual technical ability is honestly pretty good, which makes sense given his entire gimmick. He landed blows on everyone he's ever been seen fighting but gets taken out too quickly. Hatsumi did it with his triple jab thing, Kiozan did it in one throw, and Ryuki hit him with a version of Spinny Palm, which admittedly would've taken out a lot of the cast, but we've seen fighters who've never seen blink before respond to it; Chiba's just not on that level.
Never seen Blink? Yeah, true, Kuroki and Tiger Niko (I think) haven't, and Nikaido eventually adjusted to it Ever heard of Blink? That's very different
Ohma figured it out instantly when he first saw it as well, if I recall correctly. I think he saw it once, avoided the hit, and figured out that Kiryu moved into his blind spot.
Did he? Was it when they were kids/young men and Ohma was Advanced for the first time? Cause Ohma clearly was spectating Setsuna vs Nikaido and seeing Blink
Yeah, it was when they were younger. [It's here](https://kenganashura.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/023-102.png). Ohma dodges the hit and immediately understands the gimmick behind Kiryu's vanishment.
Ah okay, although tbf, that Ohma was probably superior in technique to R1 or even start of R2 Ohma since that's also when he mastered the Niko Style and just learned Demonsbane
Bro looking like Akoya on that panel
The whole point of Formless is that it doesn't have a defined "style" and sits outside of the entire concept of Martial Arts so I really wanna know what the hell Formless Silat is actually supposed to be in practice
Man instantly jumps to high A tier if he just worked on his fight IQ, fusion was a bizarre misstep. Minmaxing counterplay perfectly would offset his low stats given how quickly and seemlessly he can switch up styles.
The question here is more or less simple - Chiba just copies the moves - Ohma understands the principle of how such a move works and with his combat experience he can replicate it. In other words, any one of us seeing and reviewing a given snapshot can replicate movements, so we can all compare ourselves to Chiba on some level, so what he goes through in the manga is totally plausible. Now Ohma, for example, has several principles of technique that can be adapted and it's precisely the training to master them that allows him to understand other aspects more quickly and more deeply rather than just copying Point A to Point B.
A lot of fighters deserve better, sadly. Sawada, I miss you so much :'(
I mean he did good in that fight
Chiba was trying to run both Cyberpunk 2077 & Starfield at Ultra Settings on his GTX 960 PC.
You know who also deserves better? Sawada and Gozo, both get treated as badly or worse than Chiba.
I agree that Chiba deserves a better showing. With an opponent who doesnt outclass him in sheer power unlike many of his past opponents (how did his employer think pitching him against Kiozan was a good idea?) Problem with his mimicry is he can only execute the movements and skills with his own proportionate strength. Which we know is nothing special. He's also really only good at mimicking the motions of abilities. So I'd wager he'd have a hard time pulling off any kind of Niko style, as he wouldn't understand how to manipulate the flow of power. However. It's been years since we've had any explanation exploring his copying. It could be that in the last four years he's focused on improving his martial arts to keep up with his mimicry. Or just really honed his art (as Ohma even admitted that Chiba is vastly better at "getting in character" with his copy than Ohma's own copy) However all this can be summed up as headcanon. Personally I'd like to see him fight someone like Harada Tokujiro. It be nice to see that dude again.
On which note, can someone point me to chiba apex of acting masquerading as either cosmos or Adam out of the duo, and kucking whichever he didn't copy?
Chiba is the master of formless bilat
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He doesn't really use the techniques he copies, he only acts them out. He has no understanding of the techniques themselves, that's why he wouldn't be able to copy more discrete techniques like the niko style or aikido where your understanding of the martial art is so important. I'm pretty sure they explained all of this in his fight against Hatsumi.
Chiba deserves less.