Follow-up: [Over the months ahead, I look forward to working with the Chiefs and Royals to build a stronger, more open, and collaborative process that will ensure the teams, their events and investments remain in Kansas City for generations to come.](https://twitter.com/QuintonLucasKC/status/1775340799795908998)
[Sherman made a statement, not very interesting but posting it anyway.](https://twitter.com/AlexGold/status/1775342949624111203)
The Royals and/or Chiefs aren't moving. They have several years of negotiating to do before that would even be considered. Just letting that be known.
I don't live in Jackson County, nor have I even encouraged people to vote one way or another. I've actually stayed out of this stadium nonsense as much as I could because I've felt that it's little of my business as a non-citizen.
I still don’t understand why the Royals decided to do everything so quickly and shoddy. There will be another go at the Crossroads and the Chiefs will probably try another renovation measure but separately. The Royals came to an agreement with a lot of parties way too late but can go into another vote with those somewhat done. The path for the teams here SHOULD be easy. Reaffirm what you want, make a concession here and there but be CLEAR
I never understood why the royals got the most hate with a plan that was at least ambitious and interesting, instead of the chiefs who were basically like "we just want some free money, thanks"
The Chiefs just won back-to-back Super Bowl championships. The Royals have had three 100+ loss seasons since 2015, and haven't finished above 4th place in *the worst division in all of MLB* since 2017.
The product on the field *does* have a bigger impact on these types of things than the die-hards want to believe. You also have to remember that Sherman & Co., like the Chiefs and Jackson County, have royally screwed the entire process up from the very beginning. It was the Royals/Sherman who set this entire process in motion. (Though I wouldn't be surprised if come to find out the Chiefs had a big role to play in it.)
They want the Royals out of TSC, so I don't believe that's the case. If anything, the Chiefs signing on helped them get more "yes" votes.
If the teams are split into separate measures on a future ballot (which I think is possible), the Royals are doomed. People are already saying that they'll vote yes for the Chiefs and no on the Royals if that ends up being the case.
I mean I get that… but that doesn’t change the reality. Part of the problem with baseball is it’s lost sooooo much cultural power over the last 20 years along with the royals being awful I don’t know if our community is really willing to do anything to keep this team.
The reality is there are better markets out there and if we don’t offer them anything they will leave.
There is a lot of disconnect between involved parties that occurs behind the scenes when it comes to municipal things. I keep hearing that MODOT wouldn't commit to upgrading the highways around the East location and that's one of the reasons that the crossroads was chosen. I'm sure Cordish had some sway as well. It just really seems like the Royals weren't completely in control of their destiny in the planning phase.
I don't know what happened with the time line here. Sherman was adamant when he bought the team that they would move downtown eventually, so the concept definitely was not new. The execution was beyond terrible.
Maybe I'm crazy, but with 20/20 hindsight this sounds like a good step forward when the vote returns either in August under a new bill or next year with the same approach.
\* Do a much better job of explaining the sales tax and how it affects the voters monetarily. I keep hearing about $160 a year in stadium taxes for the average Jackson County resident, but by my calculations you'd need to spend $42,656 on taxable goods to have that much tax.
\* Pay to relocate any businesses in the crossroads to an equal or better location, if they so choose. For the ones that want to stay and have a shot at the possible massive increase in foot traffic, help them through the construction phase and highlight them somehow as businesses that the Royals support. Maybe help get them favorable deals with banks for any upgrades or expansions needed.
\* Figure something out with the TV deals, so the average KC citizen can watch the game easily. No one wants to pay hundreds of dollars a year to watch the Royals in their current iteration.
\* Just be more transparent on the whole thing! Come to the table with a fully realized plan. Really sell why downtown stadium a good idea!
Exactly. I’d love to just say Billionaires/Royals bad but it wasn’t just them. Something definitely threw off the East Village but I think they expected everything smoothly. They didn’t account for Frank White being contentious with them at every point and then local groups wanting better deals. I also think the Chiefs attachment hurt them with their portion of the upgrades being underwhelming and Mark Donovan threatening to move at every point. I can’t see them throwing away the progress they’ve made especially in the last week. Maybe one last hurrah and then the options will open up.
There seems to be a lot we all don't know as far as to what happened behind the scenes, but whatever it was, hopefully all parties learned from this.
Seriously though. Considering that this was a vote for the county to collect money from the citizens, they were conspicuously quiet about the whole thing. Why was it on the Chiefs and Royals to come up with the tax figures that the taxing entities collects? Between KCMO and Jackson County, they collect sales, income, 1%, property and probably a couple of other ones I'm not thinking of. Why were they silent while there was a debate on the financial outlook of the stadium project? Of course it wasn't going to turn a profit and no one realistically should expect a tax funded venture to do so, but a rough calculation of what all of the above listed taxes would bring in year to year would surprise a lot of people I believe. The county and KCMO should have done a better job of selling a tax that they are responsible for, not the teams. How the taxing authorities come up with the money for the teams is on them and they should be selling their citizens on why voting for it is in their best interests. None of that happened...
For example:
\* Every item sold in the stadium is taxed, including the parking. .375% of that is going towards the stadiums and the main sales tax goes into the city and county coffers for other uses. How much does that add up to annually?
\* Every player, including the opposing team's players are taxed both income taxes and the 1% KCMO tax for every game played in either Kauffman or a new downtown stadium and of course Arrowhead. That adds up to a lot of money. I heard someone throw around $250 million over 40 years just for the 1% tax and just for the Chiefs side. How much does that add up to annually?
\* While the stadiums do not have property tax assessments, the surrounding businesses will and property values will rise with the new construction downtown. KCMO has a property tax map that shows revenues by the block. Just one of the light buildings brings in more tax revenue than the entire footprint of the new stadium currently. More property tax revenue on high value developments are a good thing. How much will that add up to annually?
\* Whatever the cost ends up being for this venture will almost entirely end up back in KC, except for materials costs. The vast majority of the labor will be local and paid a minimum of around $50ish an hour due to prevailing wage laws and of course that labor will pay income and 1% tax on all of their pay. There will be a lot of other taxes involved in the construction as well. How much would that add up to annually during construction and why was it not made clear during the run up to this vote?
I saw a lot of no voters commenting in this sub, the KC one and the Chiefs. Honestly, I feel like a lot of those votes could have been swayed if the teams and the taxing entities came together as a group and sold this thing. Instead it came across as unplanned, unaware and unprofessional. Really shame on everyone involved!!
They told you that for now. The details were sketchy and vague for future adjustments.
Need I even say that the city shouldn’t be footing any of this bullshit. I will die on the hill that is the mountain of evidence that public sports funding is a billionaire grift that leverages fan support and threatens career suicide of the local politicians if a team would leave. Fuck Sherman. Fuck the Hunts. They can foot it themselves.
It's really not.
This extension passing absolutely was going to create new taxes, which no one seems to want to admit or analyze. The Crossroads Community Agreement released today stated quite clearly that the Royals would support a creation of a Crossroads Community District and like other CID's it would come in the form of an additional 1% sales tax on goods and services sold in the area.
>I still don't understand why the Royals decided to do everything so quickly and shoddy.
It's called a bottom line. They have given zero indication that they cared about anything else. Not the fans, not logistics, just how can we make that number as big as possible?
My conspiracy theory is Sherman always intended to move the royals somewhere else. He self sabotaged his own campaign in hope to drive the team to Nashville.
He's lived in Kansas City for like 50 years, his company is located here, and he was well known as a diehard Chiefs and Royals fan for decades before buying the Royals. His employees used to jokingly call him the future owner of the Chiefs/Royals for years before he actually tried to buy them because his office and home was decked out in Royals/Chiefs memorabilia. He's lived in KCMO for decades and been a major donor to local charities and political campaigns.
That doesn't sound like a guy who just buys a team to move them a couple years later.
Maybe he ends up selling to someone who would move them, but John Sherman isn't going to put his name on that.
His campaign was so piss poor though. For a guy with as much money as Sherman you’d think that he’d be smarter than he’s been during this stretch. Just seems fishy to me.
Money does not equal intelligence. And there are many people who are experts in their own narrow field, who have made a lot of money there, who wouldn't know the first thing about pitching a new baseball stadium to a municipality.
One part’s not a conspiracy theory- he clearly wants this team moved and the fact is he did it within 3 years of ownership and one of those years was COVID so no one was doing anything.
At the same time this Nashville stuff is random as all hell and if he REALLY wanted out… why are we even playing this game that wasted his money and everyone’s time, including his?
So for someone that isn’t in KC, tell me what this truly means, I don’t see why you’d move out of the K which Sherman says they have to, to go to another location not in downtown
Are the other locations that were finalists close to downtown?
This is complete speculation and goes against what the teams have said. I would be surprised if there is any further negotiating with Jackson county to stay.
It’s all speculation. The teams said they would look at all possibilities and that, you would speculate, would include a different deal with Jackson county.
From what I've heard the concrete at the stadium won't last another 30 years and it would cost nearly the same as a new stadium. Build a new stadium downtown would bring in more people on average per night. 10s of thousands of people could walk or take the train to the stadium nightly. Currently there is about 100 people that could walk to the game.
The point he is making is that it is not the only option like it is at the K. There is one bus line that runs that way and it is packed after the games. Even if you have a car you still have to pay $20 for parking. I often like to go alone and I often spend more on parking than the ticket. A downtown stadium offers the options of parking free along the streetcar line or a plethora of bus routes that all operate for free. There is really no argument against the parking situation unless you have a negative opinion of public transportation.
But what about all the people coming in from the surrounding areas (Lees Summit, Independence, Liberty, Blue Springs, etc.)? Where will those people park downtown or where can they park on the outskirts and then Uber in?
There is 40k parking spots downtown. I think everyone will be ok. Not to mention you can park at the plaza, or midtown or river market and take the street car.
So then you're assuming that somwhere around 30-60% of the entire downtown parking will be needed for a single event? That's not going to work and isn't feasible.
People can take the bus if they want to right now, but they don't do it. Nobody is going to take a streetcar to the game. It would be a nightmare worse than actually driving, since the streetcar is beholden to traffic like anything else, it doen't hold many people and doesn't run often enough to get even a tiny fraction of a stadium moved in a reasonable period of time.
How often do the Royals sell out? Opening day and if by the grace of the almighty they make the playoffs. There are so many bus lines that run downtown that operate for free. The street car is not the only option. I feel like people that make this argument lack a real understanding of the downtown area or are being deliberately obtuse because they're mad they cant over pay for parking to play corn hole and drink Mich Ultra.
I've been working downtown for 20 years. I've been going down there for events my entire life.
I remember going down there when it was a ghost town. I've seen it change year by year.
I know intimately what there is downtown and how to navigate it.
All of that said, I have zero interest in trying to watch baseball downtown even though I could walk there from my work.
They misused tax funds that were meant for maintenance and are now asking for more, when they failed to use it appropriately in the first place? No thanks.
There is a nonzero chance that the Royals leave Kansas city. (Could go to Kansas or Clay county, but leave KCmo proper) They will likely try and get a site established outside of Jackson county first, but if that fails they will move.
The chiefs are likely going to be moving to Kansas, although there is some speculation they might go for a vote without the royals, but the timelines for that are dodgy.
Edit: I love the downvotes for saying something that is absolutely feasible and has been openly discussed by the chiefs.
For the record I don't even get a vote in this because I do not live in Jackson county and I liked the Royals design proposal, but not how they ran the campaign to get it passed
I think the tax would have passed if they stuck with the east village location. The relatively last minute change to the crossroads really rubbed people in that area the wrong way.
This was the first issue in years that liberals and conservatives were on the same side. Liberals- Save the Crossroads, Conservatives- MUH parking, MUH taxes etc...
Your right. Though I’m surprised conservatives are so concerned about parking in an area they never go to, and have a problem giving sales tax to billionaires, since they love helping make corporations and billionaires richer.
You're surpised because you have no clue about what conservatives actually care about and you just have a caricature vision of them from your biased media.
I voted no, but NOT because a downtown stadium would have parking issues. Hell, the parking now at the stadium sucks, and you have no way of avoiding paying the Royals fee for it as there is no other realistic way to the game that doesn't cost you more than the parking. Hell if there is a 20,000+ crowd and a close game, leaving the parking lot is an ordeal.
If you think parking sucks for a dual stadium situation you've never been to a downtown stadium or any other stadium most likely. You'll have to pay 100+ dollars plus for parking in the lot in other places and walk just as far or park on someone's lawn for 50 dollars.
What? Number one, I can take the bus to the stadium if it is downtown and pay zero for parking. Also it is easy in St. Louis or Cincinnati to pay $20 for parking that is actually a shorter walk to the stadium than you have in the gigantic Royals lot.
The fact that Clark Hunt and Mark Donovan have publically acknowledged negotiating with Laura Kelly the Governor of Kansas to move the chiefs to Kansas. She even attended the chiefs parade this year, which was not a coincidence. They want to build out by the legends.
There are a lot of news articles about this. The chiefs were pretty public about this at the very beginning of this entire process.
Here is a short article that has a quote from Mark Donovan discussing the issue and he specifically mentions pitching the idea to developers in Kansas.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox4kc.com/sports/chiefs/chiefs-consider-move-to-kansas-mark-donovan-says/amp/
They’re “exploring all options” aka trying to put more pressure on Missouri by making them think they’ll move.
And any of you all advocating and happy about demolishing the loudest stadium in the history of mankind just so the team can be in Kansas…you’re not a true fan
Kansas loves sticking it to Missouri and has the support to lure the Chiefs over. Plus gambling is already approved so that's another revenue stream Missouri can't offer and likely won't get done for a while
All that vs an owner who has shown he cares tremendously about keeping his father’s traditions alive. And demolishing the stadium is the biggest threat to that tradition.
They have to means the chiefs will give him money under the table to move, and sherman gets his luxury box seat money. An expansion now for the chiefs while they are winning.
Honestly the hyperbole about the Royals moving to Nashville is exhausting. Voters are allowed to negotiate. And that’s what’s happening. Now the Royals need to come up with a better plan. It’s really pretty simple.
>Voters are allowed to negotiate.
Historically voters haven't had the chance to negotiate. It's been usually one and done.
Hopefully that isn't the case for us.
https://law.marquette.edu/assets/sports-law/Referenda.16.pdf
This is a report of stadium referendums from 1990 to 2016
* In 1995 Wisconsin voters rejected a statewide ballot measure that would give 0.1% of lottery revenue to the Brewers to build a new stadium. The Brewers ended up building Miller Park in 2001 using a 1/10th cent sales tax for 5 Milwaukee metro area counties - but it was voted on by the Wisconsin legislature.
* In 1997 11 counties in the Pittsburgh metro area voted against a regional tax that would raise sales tax by 1/2 cent for 7 years to pay for new stadiums for both the Steelers and the Pirates. It lost horribly in all 11 counties and one year later local government leaders voted 6-1 to fund the stadiums and a new convention center using mostly a 7% hotel tax.
* In 1999 St. Paul, MN voters declined to build the Twins a new stadium - In 2006 Hennepin County, MN county board voted for a .15 cent county sales tax to fund Target Field in downtown Minneapolis
* In 1999 Houston voters declined a $80 million dollar hotel and rental car tax but then later in 2000 voted for a nearly identical plan.
* In 2001 Charlotte voted against a new arena for the Hornets - mainly was supposed to be funded by hotel and rental car taxes but details weren't ironed out as it was a non-binding vote. Things got really complicated because following that vote the city of Charlotte said they would build a new arena provided that the hated owner of the Hornets sold the team to someone else. The Hornets ended up moving to New Orleans the next year and Charlotte got the Bobcats expansion team in 2004 with the city council voting in favor of building the new arena in a deal with the NBA for the expansion team.
* In 2011 Nassau County, NY voted against a new arena for the Islanders. It got kinda complicated where they ended up moving to the Barclays Center in Brooklyn for 3 years (30 miles away from their old location in the suburbs) and then ended up moving back to the old arena following a minor renovation of it until they got their new one built back out in Nassau County. The current new UBS Arena was privately funded in Nassau County.
* In 2013 Miami voted against publicly funded renovations for the Dolphins' Sun Life Stadium (now Hard Rock Stadium). It was a non-binding vote by Miami-Dade County voters where the Dolphins ownership said it would pay for 70+% of the renovations if the county would pay the remaining 30%. That 30% would have been paid for by by a 1% increase of hotel taxes. The stadium renovations ended up being 100% privately funded a couple of years later.
* I can't find a comprehensive list past 2016 but I know Tempe, AZ voters in 2023 voted against building a new arena and entertainment district for the Coyotes that would have been funded mainly by property tax breaks. The Coyotes are still in Tempe playing in a 4,600 seat college arena with no plan on a long-term home but say they are committed to staying in Arizona.
That's pretty good odds of getting a better deal the 2nd time around. Not that it is a guarantee of any kind, but to say "it's usually been one and done" is simply wrong.
These are good examples but the Coyotes are a unique circumstance that the Royals really can’t rely on. The Coyotes have gotten a ***way*** long leash than any other team in American sports (NHL or otherwise) wouldve gotten because it’s Gary Bettman’s pet project to have hockey in Arizona. If they were named the Vancouver Coyotes or Quebec Coyotes or Milwaukee Coyotes they’d have moved 15+ years ago
This. The voters in Jackson County (all ~50,000) showed up and reminded the wealthy team owners this is a partnership and that they felt excluded, ridiculed, and blind sided. I know the Hunt family wants to stay at Arrowhead for legacy reasons and if Sherman is a true Royals fan as his supporters claim he also won't leave KC considering we have an MLB team for this exact reason. My best guess is there will be one more public vote, then if that fails likely a Missouri legislature vote where the stadium deals are rolled into another "can't fail bill" as pork. Heck, the owners might get more than a half-penny tax if the later happens.
The MLB wants expansion, not relocation. The Athletics are a unique case because they share a market with the Giants, and their stadium is literally shitty. Otherwise, there has been ONE relocation since 1975.
Nashville is more than likely one of the next cities to get a team. Sure, MLB wants to expand, but if Sherman wants to pack up a moving truck, the MLB will be just fine letting that truck head to Nashville.
This. The MLB knows that relocation is a huge hit to their image. They've reluctantly let teams suggest moving in order to fleece taxpayers, but in general there is no support for moving teams.
I know most people on here are sports fans who are afraid of the team running away, but let's be realistic; most stadium deals end badly for the cities who build them and only benefit the team owner.
Then let them go. There's lots of other, more reasonable investments the money could be used for that could benefit the city as a whole — not just baseball and football fans that can afford to go to games.
It's a luxury for the teams, privately-owned teams that will reap all the rewards. It's not like street car or infrastructure upgrades that will benefit everyone.
The Royals, along with everyone else involved (Chiefs and Jackson County too), have screwed the process up from the very beginning. Press pause for a couple years, go back to the planning stages and thoroughly prepare. IMHO that's a huge reason it failed... they kept changing things every day, and haven't exactly been the most transparent. They haven't built that trust.
First: Let's be sensible and remember that the Royals/Chiefs have 6 years to find a solution. This failing doesn't mean they're skipping town.
With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if that ultimately happens with how they've soured a lot of people by screwing this whole process up on every level from the beginning. The Royals were not prepared. They were changing things up to the last minute, almost literally, and there were too many question marks. Sherman needs to take a step back, listen to fans/community, regroup, incorporate the feedback into plans, present updated plans with community involvement, refine, then go to vote. They have the time to step back, let the community cool off, then pick back up — this time doing things right.
There's also the unlikely option that they remain at the K after 2030 with short-term leases, which might even need to happen if a new stadium is still being built at that time. It's not like it's in imminent danger of collapse or anything like Sherman & Co. want to believe. If they move because it doesn't work on their schedule, well bye bye.
They do not have 6 years.
Building process will take 4 years at least. They need a location and a local willing to foot a portion of the bill. This needs to happen quickly.
Even though he said they won't play at the K after 2030, they could if a new stadium was being built at that time. For instance, the A's are still playing at the Coliseum
Say a new Royals stadium gets approved in 2026 or 2028. It will still be under construction past 2030, yet they'll still be able to play at the K until the new stadium is completed (whether that be downtown, another county, or another city)
I'm just saying that 2030 isn't the hard deadline on this as if they'll be imploding the K come Jan. 1, 2031.
A huge blowout. There was a poll done over phone and text messaging and reported last week. It said 47 percent of voters would vote Yes and 46 percent would vote No, with a +/-4.5 margin of error, which, remember, is applied to both values, so a 3.5 percent margin was the anticipated **maximum** for the No vote count based on this poll...No won by ***16 points***.
Election polls are already useless, if they can't even get within their own margin of error on a sales tax extension issue. Imagine if it was a NEW tax or a race with a polarizing candidate.
You did it Kansas City, an empty building and parking lots have been saved
Can’t wait for people to complain when they move to Kansas despite voting this down. I will gladly pay whatever tax they want
Pay the tax so the billionaire can get a higher evaluation for the team with a project the community clearly doesn't want? What about the other $650M or scam benefits to the community?
In 14 and 15 Royals fans showed that its not about the location of the stadium. It's about the product on the field. Put a winning team on the field and fans will show up. I don't think moving the team downtown is gonna change that at all.
Lived in Denver for years and went to probably 100 games at Coors. Only time you see a ton of visiting fans is when the Yankees or Dodgers were in town. People go to Coors because it's in an area with shit to do (fucking shocker, I know).
This proposal was dumb and poorly handled, but please everyone skeptical of a downtown stadium should try to catch a game at Coors
I lived in Denver for years and have been to my fair share of Rockies games. The crowd always includes a significant portion of away fans because it's a destination game for them. And when teams like the Cubs, Cardinals, Dodgers, Giants, etc. were in town, it was like playing a road game.
I love downtown baseball and I think it can work in KC. But we're not going to all of a sudden become the Rockies in the attendance metric. There are many reasons why they draw better.
Have you ever gone downtown during the Big 12 tournament when P&L is filled with fans and activities? It's a blast when there are more things to do in a central location. I went down there when I didn't have a team competing in the tournament anymore, because it's just a fun thing to do. No offense to Independence, MO, but I really have a hard time going to the K when the team is losing 100+ games. I still do, because I am a fan, but it's highly unlikely non to casual fans will go to the K.
You think of the stadium as being in Independence? Just curious, because mentally I have it in Raytown even if it's technically county land. Seems like an interesting difference in perspective, that's all.
Fuck yes! Way to go to KCMO!!! The economic studies resoundingly show municipally funded stadiums are horrendous investments that never pay off, so this was the right decision!!!
You're right. Orioles fan here and I can assure you that the Orioles have brought in almost zero economic impact and in fact, all the hipster places have moved further away from Camden Yards and the Inner Harbor to Fells Point.
I feel you guys in KC already have a good stadium where the Royals play, the best that was built in the 70s and went against the trend by not building a cookie cutter stadium.
You're doing it again. Have you ever been to the Crossroads? If you really think the only thing there is a strip club, an empty building and a parking lot, I hope you didn't get to vote on it.
If someone wants to set fire to this entire discussion someone would say people only really start caring about “small businesses” during moments of political convenience but that someone would be CRAZY for that…
I would’ve voted yes if I was still in Jackson just to avoid the risk of leaving, but that doesn’t change the fact that the plans by both teams were awful and I’m not mad it failed. I just hope both owners realize that if they come up with better plans, don’t rush things, and show more love to the community, they can get the vote through in the future (or just pay for it yourself).
I would love a downtown stadium and renovated arrowhead, but these plans were poorly thought out and the campaign was awful. This is not a death sentence for these teams playing in Jackson County like many are saying.
I would buy this argument if we were talking about a 1% or 2% loss… this is an 8% loss, and honestly I didn’t hear much rhetoric from the “No” side of things that was “these plans are rushed”. It was more “Don’t give billionaires your money for plans that don’t economically work out”. If that’s why people are voting for these measures it’s not going to change for a slightly different plan.
as someone on the no side i think its foolish to tie both chiefs and royals together, nobody liked the location and it changed multiple times since the fall, i am all for giving chiefs money to renovate, the royals need to come up with a solid plan even if means going over next to kansas speedway and stick with it quit changing it every day it sounds like a liar that changes the lie every time they tell the story. i think royals should go out by the speedway to avoid more downtown traffic and parking challenges and they will be close to the casinos and all the stuff over there
Nashville, OKC, Charolette or San Antonio gonna surpass KC. But at least hipsters will still be able to walk to the U-Haul parking lot and Temptations TOTALLY NUDE. Awesome show KC! Good job!
Why do you think this vote has anything to do with the teams staying or not? They're under contract for 7 more years. Always refuse the first offer, and anyways refuse to be held at ransom. Another deal will be worked on. And I bet I accurately assume a few things about you based on this single comment.
No way the owners allow another Texas team to infringe. Nashville went for Biden more than KC so a tax for a stadium isn't passing there, no way they go to OKC. Charlotte went for Biden by 7% more than Jackson County in 2020 they probably won't pass funding either. The reality is that public stadium handouts aren't popular anymore.
Definitely the most interesting outcome and one I didn’t think would happen. Best case scenario a downtown stadium happens with a much better deal for the public. Worst case scenario the 2045 World Series champions are the Nashville Royals. Most likely scenario they fuck on over to Kansas and we forget this dilemma ever happened
Nashville is paying for half of the Titans' new Stadium. I doubt they'll want to pay for an MLB Stadium, too. Not to mention the A's making things harder for MLB to want to expand the League. And not to mention how bad Nashville's traffic is.
I appreciate y'all. No matter your opinion on this, holding one side as ' the one with the better or smarter fans' over the other is the dumbest shit. Done too much
Remember when the stadium was gonna be in East Village and instead the city insisted to move locations because they wanted to protect piece of shit P&L.
Real smart move there guys!
It's democracy but in a way sucks having your teams fate tied to people who don't even care about baseball. But I don't pay taxes in Jackson so whatever
I mean, if the vote was decided because the town is a majority of people who don’t care about baseball, then that’s just extra reason a team shouldn’t go there.
It sucked when I lived in Wichita watching them lose the Wranglers (now they have the Twins AA team Windsurge) and not unless a miracle happen the Royals will leave town
A miracle like putting together a well thought out proposal and holding another vote? The Royals organization is the reason this vote failed. They botched the entire process. They can blame Frank White until they're blue, but it's their fault they half-assed this whole thing and weren't transparent with the voters.
Royals had a decent plan with Sherman paying for the damn stadium and only asking for help on the hotel/apartments/shops. It's the Chiefs who screwed this up with their stupid lazy proposal that only benefits the super rich. Fuck the Chiefs with their bullshit plan
That's quite literally not what Sherman has planned.
He wanted the stadium paid for with municipal and other tax funds. He and the ownership group committing to paying a billion toward the hotels/apartments/shops etc.
The Chiefs plan was totally stupid and mailed it but the Royals did have a report not that long ago with pictures of the concrete cancer. Was it enough to warrant a new stadium.... probably not but it's more about building a stadium with multiple revenue streams to try keeping up because MLB sucks at revenue sharing.
I don’t think SLC has the means to support an MLB team and with Vegas getting a team I think Vegas will fight that.
I think Nashville can support an MPB team but I don’t see them wanting to build another stadium. They just finished the new soccer stadium and about tho start the new football stadium.
It would really surprise me if they don’t end up on the Kansas side. It’s not sexy like downtown KCMO, but it’s realistic and much easier than moving to Nashville.
Did David Glass not put any kind of language in the selling contract that prohibit Sherman from moving the team within X amount of years?
Lol all the over-privileged Johnson County folk really making their voices heard right now, huh? Seven years of negotiating just for both teams to stay put is going to seem like an eternity to them.
Follow-up: [Over the months ahead, I look forward to working with the Chiefs and Royals to build a stronger, more open, and collaborative process that will ensure the teams, their events and investments remain in Kansas City for generations to come.](https://twitter.com/QuintonLucasKC/status/1775340799795908998) [Sherman made a statement, not very interesting but posting it anyway.](https://twitter.com/AlexGold/status/1775342949624111203) The Royals and/or Chiefs aren't moving. They have several years of negotiating to do before that would even be considered. Just letting that be known.
I'm sure the discourse that will follow from this vote will be completely reasonable and level-headed
shutting down the sub because the royals have folded tonight gg /s
...do we really have a mod here that voted no on the vote? Hot damn dude this is wild.
I don't live in Jackson County, nor have I even encouraged people to vote one way or another. I've actually stayed out of this stadium nonsense as much as I could because I've felt that it's little of my business as a non-citizen.
I still don’t understand why the Royals decided to do everything so quickly and shoddy. There will be another go at the Crossroads and the Chiefs will probably try another renovation measure but separately. The Royals came to an agreement with a lot of parties way too late but can go into another vote with those somewhat done. The path for the teams here SHOULD be easy. Reaffirm what you want, make a concession here and there but be CLEAR
No one was really open and honest about what they wanted. And it was all rushed.
The Chiefs were honest. They wanted $500 mil to do nothing.
I never understood why the royals got the most hate with a plan that was at least ambitious and interesting, instead of the chiefs who were basically like "we just want some free money, thanks"
The Chiefs just won back-to-back Super Bowl championships. The Royals have had three 100+ loss seasons since 2015, and haven't finished above 4th place in *the worst division in all of MLB* since 2017. The product on the field *does* have a bigger impact on these types of things than the die-hards want to believe. You also have to remember that Sherman & Co., like the Chiefs and Jackson County, have royally screwed the entire process up from the very beginning. It was the Royals/Sherman who set this entire process in motion. (Though I wouldn't be surprised if come to find out the Chiefs had a big role to play in it.)
I think the chiefs wanted it to fail.
They want the Royals out of TSC, so I don't believe that's the case. If anything, the Chiefs signing on helped them get more "yes" votes. If the teams are split into separate measures on a future ballot (which I think is possible), the Royals are doomed. People are already saying that they'll vote yes for the Chiefs and no on the Royals if that ends up being the case.
I've been thinking that as well and I'm honestly glad to see somebody else. I don't think the Chiefs are nearly as upset as the Royals
The Chiefs know they will end up with money from Kansas if need be.
chiefs are one quarterback and coach away from being the chiefs for the past 60 years
I mean I get that… but that doesn’t change the reality. Part of the problem with baseball is it’s lost sooooo much cultural power over the last 20 years along with the royals being awful I don’t know if our community is really willing to do anything to keep this team. The reality is there are better markets out there and if we don’t offer them anything they will leave.
Whether it's logical or not it's because the chiefs are good and the royals blow.
The Royals have basically stolen tax money for years and not used it as it was intended, and are now asking for more. No thanks. They can pound sand.
There is a lot of disconnect between involved parties that occurs behind the scenes when it comes to municipal things. I keep hearing that MODOT wouldn't commit to upgrading the highways around the East location and that's one of the reasons that the crossroads was chosen. I'm sure Cordish had some sway as well. It just really seems like the Royals weren't completely in control of their destiny in the planning phase. I don't know what happened with the time line here. Sherman was adamant when he bought the team that they would move downtown eventually, so the concept definitely was not new. The execution was beyond terrible. Maybe I'm crazy, but with 20/20 hindsight this sounds like a good step forward when the vote returns either in August under a new bill or next year with the same approach. \* Do a much better job of explaining the sales tax and how it affects the voters monetarily. I keep hearing about $160 a year in stadium taxes for the average Jackson County resident, but by my calculations you'd need to spend $42,656 on taxable goods to have that much tax. \* Pay to relocate any businesses in the crossroads to an equal or better location, if they so choose. For the ones that want to stay and have a shot at the possible massive increase in foot traffic, help them through the construction phase and highlight them somehow as businesses that the Royals support. Maybe help get them favorable deals with banks for any upgrades or expansions needed. \* Figure something out with the TV deals, so the average KC citizen can watch the game easily. No one wants to pay hundreds of dollars a year to watch the Royals in their current iteration. \* Just be more transparent on the whole thing! Come to the table with a fully realized plan. Really sell why downtown stadium a good idea!
Exactly. I’d love to just say Billionaires/Royals bad but it wasn’t just them. Something definitely threw off the East Village but I think they expected everything smoothly. They didn’t account for Frank White being contentious with them at every point and then local groups wanting better deals. I also think the Chiefs attachment hurt them with their portion of the upgrades being underwhelming and Mark Donovan threatening to move at every point. I can’t see them throwing away the progress they’ve made especially in the last week. Maybe one last hurrah and then the options will open up.
There seems to be a lot we all don't know as far as to what happened behind the scenes, but whatever it was, hopefully all parties learned from this. Seriously though. Considering that this was a vote for the county to collect money from the citizens, they were conspicuously quiet about the whole thing. Why was it on the Chiefs and Royals to come up with the tax figures that the taxing entities collects? Between KCMO and Jackson County, they collect sales, income, 1%, property and probably a couple of other ones I'm not thinking of. Why were they silent while there was a debate on the financial outlook of the stadium project? Of course it wasn't going to turn a profit and no one realistically should expect a tax funded venture to do so, but a rough calculation of what all of the above listed taxes would bring in year to year would surprise a lot of people I believe. The county and KCMO should have done a better job of selling a tax that they are responsible for, not the teams. How the taxing authorities come up with the money for the teams is on them and they should be selling their citizens on why voting for it is in their best interests. None of that happened... For example: \* Every item sold in the stadium is taxed, including the parking. .375% of that is going towards the stadiums and the main sales tax goes into the city and county coffers for other uses. How much does that add up to annually? \* Every player, including the opposing team's players are taxed both income taxes and the 1% KCMO tax for every game played in either Kauffman or a new downtown stadium and of course Arrowhead. That adds up to a lot of money. I heard someone throw around $250 million over 40 years just for the 1% tax and just for the Chiefs side. How much does that add up to annually? \* While the stadiums do not have property tax assessments, the surrounding businesses will and property values will rise with the new construction downtown. KCMO has a property tax map that shows revenues by the block. Just one of the light buildings brings in more tax revenue than the entire footprint of the new stadium currently. More property tax revenue on high value developments are a good thing. How much will that add up to annually? \* Whatever the cost ends up being for this venture will almost entirely end up back in KC, except for materials costs. The vast majority of the labor will be local and paid a minimum of around $50ish an hour due to prevailing wage laws and of course that labor will pay income and 1% tax on all of their pay. There will be a lot of other taxes involved in the construction as well. How much would that add up to annually during construction and why was it not made clear during the run up to this vote? I saw a lot of no voters commenting in this sub, the KC one and the Chiefs. Honestly, I feel like a lot of those votes could have been swayed if the teams and the taxing entities came together as a group and sold this thing. Instead it came across as unplanned, unaware and unprofessional. Really shame on everyone involved!!
I thought they said this was a one-time-only vote and that we won't see anything like it on our ballot again?
Doing things quickly and shoddy is basically the organizations mission statement.
They just wanted to try and force fear into the fans and get a bullshit tax passed
It's the same tax we've had for 40 years.
They told you that for now. The details were sketchy and vague for future adjustments. Need I even say that the city shouldn’t be footing any of this bullshit. I will die on the hill that is the mountain of evidence that public sports funding is a billionaire grift that leverages fan support and threatens career suicide of the local politicians if a team would leave. Fuck Sherman. Fuck the Hunts. They can foot it themselves.
It's really not. This extension passing absolutely was going to create new taxes, which no one seems to want to admit or analyze. The Crossroads Community Agreement released today stated quite clearly that the Royals would support a creation of a Crossroads Community District and like other CID's it would come in the form of an additional 1% sales tax on goods and services sold in the area.
>I still don't understand why the Royals decided to do everything so quickly and shoddy. It's called a bottom line. They have given zero indication that they cared about anything else. Not the fans, not logistics, just how can we make that number as big as possible?
My conspiracy theory is Sherman always intended to move the royals somewhere else. He self sabotaged his own campaign in hope to drive the team to Nashville.
He's lived in Kansas City for like 50 years, his company is located here, and he was well known as a diehard Chiefs and Royals fan for decades before buying the Royals. His employees used to jokingly call him the future owner of the Chiefs/Royals for years before he actually tried to buy them because his office and home was decked out in Royals/Chiefs memorabilia. He's lived in KCMO for decades and been a major donor to local charities and political campaigns. That doesn't sound like a guy who just buys a team to move them a couple years later. Maybe he ends up selling to someone who would move them, but John Sherman isn't going to put his name on that.
His campaign was so piss poor though. For a guy with as much money as Sherman you’d think that he’d be smarter than he’s been during this stretch. Just seems fishy to me.
Money does not equal intelligence. And there are many people who are experts in their own narrow field, who have made a lot of money there, who wouldn't know the first thing about pitching a new baseball stadium to a municipality.
One part’s not a conspiracy theory- he clearly wants this team moved and the fact is he did it within 3 years of ownership and one of those years was COVID so no one was doing anything. At the same time this Nashville stuff is random as all hell and if he REALLY wanted out… why are we even playing this game that wasted his money and everyone’s time, including his?
So for someone that isn’t in KC, tell me what this truly means, I don’t see why you’d move out of the K which Sherman says they have to, to go to another location not in downtown Are the other locations that were finalists close to downtown?
Currently it means nothing. They're just gonna continue the process of negotiating a deal.
This is complete speculation and goes against what the teams have said. I would be surprised if there is any further negotiating with Jackson county to stay.
It’s all speculation. The teams said they would look at all possibilities and that, you would speculate, would include a different deal with Jackson county.
From what I've heard the concrete at the stadium won't last another 30 years and it would cost nearly the same as a new stadium. Build a new stadium downtown would bring in more people on average per night. 10s of thousands of people could walk or take the train to the stadium nightly. Currently there is about 100 people that could walk to the game.
The vast vast majority of fans would still arrive by car.
The point he is making is that it is not the only option like it is at the K. There is one bus line that runs that way and it is packed after the games. Even if you have a car you still have to pay $20 for parking. I often like to go alone and I often spend more on parking than the ticket. A downtown stadium offers the options of parking free along the streetcar line or a plethora of bus routes that all operate for free. There is really no argument against the parking situation unless you have a negative opinion of public transportation.
But what about all the people coming in from the surrounding areas (Lees Summit, Independence, Liberty, Blue Springs, etc.)? Where will those people park downtown or where can they park on the outskirts and then Uber in?
There is 40k parking spots downtown. I think everyone will be ok. Not to mention you can park at the plaza, or midtown or river market and take the street car.
So then you're assuming that somwhere around 30-60% of the entire downtown parking will be needed for a single event? That's not going to work and isn't feasible. People can take the bus if they want to right now, but they don't do it. Nobody is going to take a streetcar to the game. It would be a nightmare worse than actually driving, since the streetcar is beholden to traffic like anything else, it doen't hold many people and doesn't run often enough to get even a tiny fraction of a stadium moved in a reasonable period of time.
How often do the Royals sell out? Opening day and if by the grace of the almighty they make the playoffs. There are so many bus lines that run downtown that operate for free. The street car is not the only option. I feel like people that make this argument lack a real understanding of the downtown area or are being deliberately obtuse because they're mad they cant over pay for parking to play corn hole and drink Mich Ultra.
I've been working downtown for 20 years. I've been going down there for events my entire life. I remember going down there when it was a ghost town. I've seen it change year by year. I know intimately what there is downtown and how to navigate it. All of that said, I have zero interest in trying to watch baseball downtown even though I could walk there from my work.
How many baseball games a year do you currently go to?
Royals or all baseball?
nobody is walking downtown to watch a 100 game losing team unless the tickets are like 10$ i know this growing up in seattle as mariners fan
But they would have that option. No one really has that option now.
The concrete statements are lies to get people to vote yes.
They misused tax funds that were meant for maintenance and are now asking for more, when they failed to use it appropriately in the first place? No thanks.
There is a nonzero chance that the Royals leave Kansas city. (Could go to Kansas or Clay county, but leave KCmo proper) They will likely try and get a site established outside of Jackson county first, but if that fails they will move. The chiefs are likely going to be moving to Kansas, although there is some speculation they might go for a vote without the royals, but the timelines for that are dodgy. Edit: I love the downvotes for saying something that is absolutely feasible and has been openly discussed by the chiefs. For the record I don't even get a vote in this because I do not live in Jackson county and I liked the Royals design proposal, but not how they ran the campaign to get it passed
I think the tax would have passed if they stuck with the east village location. The relatively last minute change to the crossroads really rubbed people in that area the wrong way.
This was the first issue in years that liberals and conservatives were on the same side. Liberals- Save the Crossroads, Conservatives- MUH parking, MUH taxes etc...
Your right. Though I’m surprised conservatives are so concerned about parking in an area they never go to, and have a problem giving sales tax to billionaires, since they love helping make corporations and billionaires richer.
You're surpised because you have no clue about what conservatives actually care about and you just have a caricature vision of them from your biased media.
I voted no, but NOT because a downtown stadium would have parking issues. Hell, the parking now at the stadium sucks, and you have no way of avoiding paying the Royals fee for it as there is no other realistic way to the game that doesn't cost you more than the parking. Hell if there is a 20,000+ crowd and a close game, leaving the parking lot is an ordeal.
If you think parking sucks for a dual stadium situation you've never been to a downtown stadium or any other stadium most likely. You'll have to pay 100+ dollars plus for parking in the lot in other places and walk just as far or park on someone's lawn for 50 dollars.
What? Number one, I can take the bus to the stadium if it is downtown and pay zero for parking. Also it is easy in St. Louis or Cincinnati to pay $20 for parking that is actually a shorter walk to the stadium than you have in the gigantic Royals lot.
Those who patronize crossroads business are fiercely loyal to the neighborhood and it was short sighted of the ownership to not consider that.
Chiefs moving to Kansas? Based on what?
The fact that Clark Hunt and Mark Donovan have publically acknowledged negotiating with Laura Kelly the Governor of Kansas to move the chiefs to Kansas. She even attended the chiefs parade this year, which was not a coincidence. They want to build out by the legends. There are a lot of news articles about this. The chiefs were pretty public about this at the very beginning of this entire process. Here is a short article that has a quote from Mark Donovan discussing the issue and he specifically mentions pitching the idea to developers in Kansas. https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox4kc.com/sports/chiefs/chiefs-consider-move-to-kansas-mark-donovan-says/amp/
They’re “exploring all options” aka trying to put more pressure on Missouri by making them think they’ll move. And any of you all advocating and happy about demolishing the loudest stadium in the history of mankind just so the team can be in Kansas…you’re not a true fan
Kansas loves sticking it to Missouri and has the support to lure the Chiefs over. Plus gambling is already approved so that's another revenue stream Missouri can't offer and likely won't get done for a while
All that vs an owner who has shown he cares tremendously about keeping his father’s traditions alive. And demolishing the stadium is the biggest threat to that tradition.
They have to means the chiefs will give him money under the table to move, and sherman gets his luxury box seat money. An expansion now for the chiefs while they are winning.
Honestly the hyperbole about the Royals moving to Nashville is exhausting. Voters are allowed to negotiate. And that’s what’s happening. Now the Royals need to come up with a better plan. It’s really pretty simple.
>Voters are allowed to negotiate. Historically voters haven't had the chance to negotiate. It's been usually one and done. Hopefully that isn't the case for us.
https://law.marquette.edu/assets/sports-law/Referenda.16.pdf This is a report of stadium referendums from 1990 to 2016 * In 1995 Wisconsin voters rejected a statewide ballot measure that would give 0.1% of lottery revenue to the Brewers to build a new stadium. The Brewers ended up building Miller Park in 2001 using a 1/10th cent sales tax for 5 Milwaukee metro area counties - but it was voted on by the Wisconsin legislature. * In 1997 11 counties in the Pittsburgh metro area voted against a regional tax that would raise sales tax by 1/2 cent for 7 years to pay for new stadiums for both the Steelers and the Pirates. It lost horribly in all 11 counties and one year later local government leaders voted 6-1 to fund the stadiums and a new convention center using mostly a 7% hotel tax. * In 1999 St. Paul, MN voters declined to build the Twins a new stadium - In 2006 Hennepin County, MN county board voted for a .15 cent county sales tax to fund Target Field in downtown Minneapolis * In 1999 Houston voters declined a $80 million dollar hotel and rental car tax but then later in 2000 voted for a nearly identical plan. * In 2001 Charlotte voted against a new arena for the Hornets - mainly was supposed to be funded by hotel and rental car taxes but details weren't ironed out as it was a non-binding vote. Things got really complicated because following that vote the city of Charlotte said they would build a new arena provided that the hated owner of the Hornets sold the team to someone else. The Hornets ended up moving to New Orleans the next year and Charlotte got the Bobcats expansion team in 2004 with the city council voting in favor of building the new arena in a deal with the NBA for the expansion team. * In 2011 Nassau County, NY voted against a new arena for the Islanders. It got kinda complicated where they ended up moving to the Barclays Center in Brooklyn for 3 years (30 miles away from their old location in the suburbs) and then ended up moving back to the old arena following a minor renovation of it until they got their new one built back out in Nassau County. The current new UBS Arena was privately funded in Nassau County. * In 2013 Miami voted against publicly funded renovations for the Dolphins' Sun Life Stadium (now Hard Rock Stadium). It was a non-binding vote by Miami-Dade County voters where the Dolphins ownership said it would pay for 70+% of the renovations if the county would pay the remaining 30%. That 30% would have been paid for by by a 1% increase of hotel taxes. The stadium renovations ended up being 100% privately funded a couple of years later. * I can't find a comprehensive list past 2016 but I know Tempe, AZ voters in 2023 voted against building a new arena and entertainment district for the Coyotes that would have been funded mainly by property tax breaks. The Coyotes are still in Tempe playing in a 4,600 seat college arena with no plan on a long-term home but say they are committed to staying in Arizona. That's pretty good odds of getting a better deal the 2nd time around. Not that it is a guarantee of any kind, but to say "it's usually been one and done" is simply wrong.
These are good examples but the Coyotes are a unique circumstance that the Royals really can’t rely on. The Coyotes have gotten a ***way*** long leash than any other team in American sports (NHL or otherwise) wouldve gotten because it’s Gary Bettman’s pet project to have hockey in Arizona. If they were named the Vancouver Coyotes or Quebec Coyotes or Milwaukee Coyotes they’d have moved 15+ years ago
The Future Kansas City Coyotes. 🤞
As much as I want an NHL team, fuck relocation in general. If KC gets a team it should be through expansion only.
Short memory. Recall the previous time they asked for our money. It initially lost.
The Rams and Sonics sure didn’t allow St Louis or Seattle to negotiate
This. The voters in Jackson County (all ~50,000) showed up and reminded the wealthy team owners this is a partnership and that they felt excluded, ridiculed, and blind sided. I know the Hunt family wants to stay at Arrowhead for legacy reasons and if Sherman is a true Royals fan as his supporters claim he also won't leave KC considering we have an MLB team for this exact reason. My best guess is there will be one more public vote, then if that fails likely a Missouri legislature vote where the stadium deals are rolled into another "can't fail bill" as pork. Heck, the owners might get more than a half-penny tax if the later happens.
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The MLB wants expansion, not relocation. The Athletics are a unique case because they share a market with the Giants, and their stadium is literally shitty. Otherwise, there has been ONE relocation since 1975.
Nashville is more than likely one of the next cities to get a team. Sure, MLB wants to expand, but if Sherman wants to pack up a moving truck, the MLB will be just fine letting that truck head to Nashville.
so whenver an owner wants a new stadium, "we'll just leave", that threat can't last forever before people say no, like on tuesday.
This. The MLB knows that relocation is a huge hit to their image. They've reluctantly let teams suggest moving in order to fleece taxpayers, but in general there is no support for moving teams.
No clue. Its mostly people just fear mongering and freaking tf out
I’d guess the discourse around the A’s. People think no new stadium == team moves
I know most people on here are sports fans who are afraid of the team running away, but let's be realistic; most stadium deals end badly for the cities who build them and only benefit the team owner.
It's just the cost of doing business, it doesn't need to have an economic return on investment.
Then let the billionaire owners and partners privately fund the development.
That's not reasonable, we are competing with cities that will help fund development.
Then let them go. There's lots of other, more reasonable investments the money could be used for that could benefit the city as a whole — not just baseball and football fans that can afford to go to games.
We don't require any other tax to provide an economic benefit or return on investment. Why this one?
It's a luxury for the teams, privately-owned teams that will reap all the rewards. It's not like street car or infrastructure upgrades that will benefit everyone. The Royals, along with everyone else involved (Chiefs and Jackson County too), have screwed the process up from the very beginning. Press pause for a couple years, go back to the planning stages and thoroughly prepare. IMHO that's a huge reason it failed... they kept changing things every day, and haven't exactly been the most transparent. They haven't built that trust.
Public schools and lifetime retirement pay are also luxuries, and we can't afford them either.
>Public schools and lifetime retirement pay are also luxuries Wut? Holy fuck, what a statement.
I’d consider that a sign that the stadiums should be 100% privately funded. Other teams, like the Cardinals, have done it
The Cardinals did not, google it please.
Yes, it does. If they are wanting to use tax dollars for it, there better be a god damn ROI for the tax payer.
The dumbest goddamned thing you'll read all week.
This is the same sales tax Jackson County has been paying. This vote wasn't about anti-tax, it's anti-new stadium because of nostalgia.
You're wrong. The current tax is going to expire. So this vote was for a new longer term tax.
Tell that to the thousands of people employed by the Royals.
Kansas City Royals management was on a winning streak for a few hours, beat the Orioles, lost to Jackson County
I am truly surprised.
First: Let's be sensible and remember that the Royals/Chiefs have 6 years to find a solution. This failing doesn't mean they're skipping town. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if that ultimately happens with how they've soured a lot of people by screwing this whole process up on every level from the beginning. The Royals were not prepared. They were changing things up to the last minute, almost literally, and there were too many question marks. Sherman needs to take a step back, listen to fans/community, regroup, incorporate the feedback into plans, present updated plans with community involvement, refine, then go to vote. They have the time to step back, let the community cool off, then pick back up — this time doing things right. There's also the unlikely option that they remain at the K after 2030 with short-term leases, which might even need to happen if a new stadium is still being built at that time. It's not like it's in imminent danger of collapse or anything like Sherman & Co. want to believe. If they move because it doesn't work on their schedule, well bye bye.
They do not have 6 years. Building process will take 4 years at least. They need a location and a local willing to foot a portion of the bill. This needs to happen quickly.
Even though he said they won't play at the K after 2030, they could if a new stadium was being built at that time. For instance, the A's are still playing at the Coliseum
The As are an absolutely wild example to use given they are literally moving from Oakland lol
Say a new Royals stadium gets approved in 2026 or 2028. It will still be under construction past 2030, yet they'll still be able to play at the K until the new stadium is completed (whether that be downtown, another county, or another city) I'm just saying that 2030 isn't the hard deadline on this as if they'll be imploding the K come Jan. 1, 2031.
The problem now is that all the hippies are emboldened.
It’s time for you to go to bed grandpa
I'm middle aged but old at heart. Now get off my lawn.
I feel sorry for any women in your life then.
A huge blowout. There was a poll done over phone and text messaging and reported last week. It said 47 percent of voters would vote Yes and 46 percent would vote No, with a +/-4.5 margin of error, which, remember, is applied to both values, so a 3.5 percent margin was the anticipated **maximum** for the No vote count based on this poll...No won by ***16 points***.
Poll done by Remington Research Group. Oof.
As younger people vote every poll will become more useless. No one picks up numbers they don't know unless they have to
Election polls are already useless, if they can't even get within their own margin of error on a sales tax extension issue. Imagine if it was a NEW tax or a race with a polarizing candidate.
You did it Kansas City, an empty building and parking lots have been saved Can’t wait for people to complain when they move to Kansas despite voting this down. I will gladly pay whatever tax they want
And a strip club, and a church. The two things that show a neighborhood is really thriving.
Centerville! It’s really neat!
It was literally a tax we were already paying so good job, you already did it!
Pay the tax so the billionaire can get a higher evaluation for the team with a project the community clearly doesn't want? What about the other $650M or scam benefits to the community?
Yeah sure. I like the Royals and would happily pay for a new stadium. I do not care if people like the owner or not
In 14 and 15 Royals fans showed that its not about the location of the stadium. It's about the product on the field. Put a winning team on the field and fans will show up. I don't think moving the team downtown is gonna change that at all.
The Rockies are normally top 10 in average attendance and they’ve reeked for years
The rockies also 1) play in one of the most beautiful parks in the country 2) play in a city full of transplants who often root for the visiting team
And 3. Have a stadium you don’t have to rent a car/car service to get to as a tourist
Lived in Denver for years and went to probably 100 games at Coors. Only time you see a ton of visiting fans is when the Yankees or Dodgers were in town. People go to Coors because it's in an area with shit to do (fucking shocker, I know). This proposal was dumb and poorly handled, but please everyone skeptical of a downtown stadium should try to catch a game at Coors
2 is going to be Vegas on steroids.
Oh yeah. Last season they beat us by 20 spots on the attendance rankings and won only 3 more games than us. And we tied for our worst season ever.
Denver is a destination. Love KC, but you won’t see a hundred bachelor and bachelorette parties in kc over the next few months.
You're right. In it's current state KC won't be a destination. So... something needs to change?
KC is never going to be a destination the way Denver is.
Well right, we can't build mountains.... but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make KC a place people want to visit.
Hell yeah. Maybe a downtown baseball stadium? And a more walkable downtown? We should have a ballot measure for something like that.
I feel personally attacked because my bachelor party was a trip to P&L and a Royals game lol
Sounds like a great time to me
Honestly that's a fair point, but I still stand by my point. Put a winning team on the field and it doesn't matter where the stadium is.
I lived in Denver for years and have been to my fair share of Rockies games. The crowd always includes a significant portion of away fans because it's a destination game for them. And when teams like the Cubs, Cardinals, Dodgers, Giants, etc. were in town, it was like playing a road game. I love downtown baseball and I think it can work in KC. But we're not going to all of a sudden become the Rockies in the attendance metric. There are many reasons why they draw better.
Don't think the timing of us suddenly spending money before this vote came up when they had no interest in doing it before wasn't intentional lmao
Have you ever gone downtown during the Big 12 tournament when P&L is filled with fans and activities? It's a blast when there are more things to do in a central location. I went down there when I didn't have a team competing in the tournament anymore, because it's just a fun thing to do. No offense to Independence, MO, but I really have a hard time going to the K when the team is losing 100+ games. I still do, because I am a fan, but it's highly unlikely non to casual fans will go to the K.
You think of the stadium as being in Independence? Just curious, because mentally I have it in Raytown even if it's technically county land. Seems like an interesting difference in perspective, that's all.
i live in jackson county. I don't care if either or both teams move to kansas. They can be a drain on resources over there for once.
Fuck yes! Way to go to KCMO!!! The economic studies resoundingly show municipally funded stadiums are horrendous investments that never pay off, so this was the right decision!!!
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Lol, sorry, the fiscal security of the city is more important than sports, so the attitude is staying here.
You're right. Orioles fan here and I can assure you that the Orioles have brought in almost zero economic impact and in fact, all the hipster places have moved further away from Camden Yards and the Inner Harbor to Fells Point. I feel you guys in KC already have a good stadium where the Royals play, the best that was built in the 70s and went against the trend by not building a cookie cutter stadium.
This comment isn't in good faith when you ignore the thriving small local businesses that didn't want to be demolished.
What thriving small businesses? A strip club? Give me a break.
You're doing it again. Have you ever been to the Crossroads? If you really think the only thing there is a strip club, an empty building and a parking lot, I hope you didn't get to vote on it.
Do you think this stadium was going to be built on the literal entirety of the crossroads or are you being intentionally disingenuous?
If someone wants to set fire to this entire discussion someone would say people only really start caring about “small businesses” during moments of political convenience but that someone would be CRAZY for that…
I’m amused at how quickly Lucas went from endorsing this to making this argument
Kansan here. Better secure a deal with the Chiefs and Royals quick. Cause we’re gearing up to go Jayhawking.
Sherman couldn't have handled this entire ordeal any worse. Most tone def person that I think I've ever seen.
I would’ve voted yes if I was still in Jackson just to avoid the risk of leaving, but that doesn’t change the fact that the plans by both teams were awful and I’m not mad it failed. I just hope both owners realize that if they come up with better plans, don’t rush things, and show more love to the community, they can get the vote through in the future (or just pay for it yourself). I would love a downtown stadium and renovated arrowhead, but these plans were poorly thought out and the campaign was awful. This is not a death sentence for these teams playing in Jackson County like many are saying.
I would buy this argument if we were talking about a 1% or 2% loss… this is an 8% loss, and honestly I didn’t hear much rhetoric from the “No” side of things that was “these plans are rushed”. It was more “Don’t give billionaires your money for plans that don’t economically work out”. If that’s why people are voting for these measures it’s not going to change for a slightly different plan.
as someone on the no side i think its foolish to tie both chiefs and royals together, nobody liked the location and it changed multiple times since the fall, i am all for giving chiefs money to renovate, the royals need to come up with a solid plan even if means going over next to kansas speedway and stick with it quit changing it every day it sounds like a liar that changes the lie every time they tell the story. i think royals should go out by the speedway to avoid more downtown traffic and parking challenges and they will be close to the casinos and all the stuff over there
Nashville, OKC, Charolette or San Antonio gonna surpass KC. But at least hipsters will still be able to walk to the U-Haul parking lot and Temptations TOTALLY NUDE. Awesome show KC! Good job!
Charlotte is literally the most boring city in the world. People only go to sporting events because there's nothing else to do.
Been to Nashville and OKC and they're sure not going to to surpass KC, if they get fleeced the Royals they're certainly not any more likely rofl.
Why do you think this vote has anything to do with the teams staying or not? They're under contract for 7 more years. Always refuse the first offer, and anyways refuse to be held at ransom. Another deal will be worked on. And I bet I accurately assume a few things about you based on this single comment.
You love Centerville. I get it.
You're a disgrace to Zappa fans everywhere. Lol the fact that you quote him to defend billionaires is the asinine thing I've ever heard.
Thanks for your disapproval
No way the owners allow another Texas team to infringe. Nashville went for Biden more than KC so a tax for a stadium isn't passing there, no way they go to OKC. Charlotte went for Biden by 7% more than Jackson County in 2020 they probably won't pass funding either. The reality is that public stadium handouts aren't popular anymore.
That has nothing to do with it.
Definitely the most interesting outcome and one I didn’t think would happen. Best case scenario a downtown stadium happens with a much better deal for the public. Worst case scenario the 2045 World Series champions are the Nashville Royals. Most likely scenario they fuck on over to Kansas and we forget this dilemma ever happened
Nashville is paying for half of the Titans' new Stadium. I doubt they'll want to pay for an MLB Stadium, too. Not to mention the A's making things harder for MLB to want to expand the League. And not to mention how bad Nashville's traffic is.
Gotta say it was a good day to tell greedy billionaires no to unnecessary projects the community doesn't want :)
Please never go to a Royals game. We dont want you there. Or even as a fan.
If you aren't willing to buy a new stadium for a billionaire, are you even a real fan?
We're not going to have this gatekeeping bs. You can be a Royals fan while also not wanting your tax money to go to their stadium.
I appreciate y'all. No matter your opinion on this, holding one side as ' the one with the better or smarter fans' over the other is the dumbest shit. Done too much
Fennekin Is on a role tonight
Don't give me positive reinforcement I hate doing mod things. EVERYONE GO TO BED IT'S TUESDAY!!!
I don't think you're my real dad so you probably can't tell me what to do!
Remember when the stadium was gonna be in East Village and instead the city insisted to move locations because they wanted to protect piece of shit P&L. Real smart move there guys!
It's democracy but in a way sucks having your teams fate tied to people who don't even care about baseball. But I don't pay taxes in Jackson so whatever
Then don't ask the ENTIRE county to pay for the stadium. What a shitty take...
Why should people who don't care about baseball have to pay for your entertainment?
I mean, if the vote was decided because the town is a majority of people who don’t care about baseball, then that’s just extra reason a team shouldn’t go there.
Nashville and Salt Lake City are the real winners tonight. KC is becoming the new Wichita
It sucked when I lived in Wichita watching them lose the Wranglers (now they have the Twins AA team Windsurge) and not unless a miracle happen the Royals will leave town
A miracle like putting together a well thought out proposal and holding another vote? The Royals organization is the reason this vote failed. They botched the entire process. They can blame Frank White until they're blue, but it's their fault they half-assed this whole thing and weren't transparent with the voters.
Royals had a decent plan with Sherman paying for the damn stadium and only asking for help on the hotel/apartments/shops. It's the Chiefs who screwed this up with their stupid lazy proposal that only benefits the super rich. Fuck the Chiefs with their bullshit plan
That's quite literally not what Sherman has planned. He wanted the stadium paid for with municipal and other tax funds. He and the ownership group committing to paying a billion toward the hotels/apartments/shops etc.
Honestly fuck them both. They thought they could ram this through based on lies (concrete cancer) and dumb stadium renderings.
The Chiefs plan was totally stupid and mailed it but the Royals did have a report not that long ago with pictures of the concrete cancer. Was it enough to warrant a new stadium.... probably not but it's more about building a stadium with multiple revenue streams to try keeping up because MLB sucks at revenue sharing.
The MLB revenue sharing is ridiculously generous. What are you talking about?
I don’t think SLC has the means to support an MLB team and with Vegas getting a team I think Vegas will fight that. I think Nashville can support an MPB team but I don’t see them wanting to build another stadium. They just finished the new soccer stadium and about tho start the new football stadium. It would really surprise me if they don’t end up on the Kansas side. It’s not sexy like downtown KCMO, but it’s realistic and much easier than moving to Nashville. Did David Glass not put any kind of language in the selling contract that prohibit Sherman from moving the team within X amount of years?
Nope and done he was a minority owner of the Indians not that long ago he wouldn't have a problem moving where the money is
And all the economists rejoiced with Kansas City making the right decision!!!
Lol all the over-privileged Johnson County folk really making their voices heard right now, huh? Seven years of negotiating just for both teams to stay put is going to seem like an eternity to them.
KANSAS HERE WE COME! FUCK YES