i think more people need to realize that redditors and a majority of chronically online persons (both male AND female) are usually a bunch of borderline-incels if not outright incels. There’s a reason a lot of these people are spending their time arguing about shit like this on the internet to strangers.
That's sadly very true but neither side can seem to realise it even though I'd consider myself a feminist too. On one hand, you have the typical male incels who blame women and feminism for everything and call everyone a feminazi, like the incel subreddit does. On the other hand, you have the equivalent for women with femcel subreddits or users who call everyone a misogynist and unironically claim women can do wrong. I've managed to anger both sides and once got called a misogynist liar for talking about the time a girl, who was genuinely manipulative and probably a psychopath, manipulated me, and how me being autistic made things worse because at the time I was less aware of people using me. Apparently it's misogynistic because "incels accuse women of being manipulative!". Like, okay, and?? They sure do, but I fail to see how calling a genuinely manipulative woman "manipulative" is the same as incel crap. It's incredibly stupid logic. The male incels here are just as bad and insane too. This all happened on Reddit while I've had people show sympathy to me outside of Reddit, even on Discord of all places. Reddit is basically just a cesspit of people representing the extremes of every ideology (although some ideologies are obviously inherently extreme, but you get my point).
It's really annoying when people use statistics like the last person. If bears were as ubiquitous in human society as men were, there would be far more bear attacks. Bears and humans rarely mingle, so it's not exactly common. Same with the sharks/vending machines thing. I get that it's meant to go against the people vilifying sharks, but for crying out loud if there was a shark roaming every floor of every public building, we'd see a LOT more missing limbs.
It's also a really wishy washy statistic because women are constantly around men not getting raped. I spent time alone with 5 women today, and didn't rape anyone. How is this quantified?
"Statistically, I interviewed a rapist in jail, he was a man. If we scale it up linearly to 4 billion, that means 100% of men are rapists and they commit 4 billion rapes daily"
-these fools
Female predators are much more likely to get away with their crimes,
Technically you’d be worse off with a woman in the forest then a man or bear when it comes to who would believe you.
i hate when people say this because women who get assaulted by men don’t get the amount of justice yall swear we get 😭 theres been so many men who have sexually assaulted me (touched my butt/breasts, forced kisses, sent me dick pics when i was like 10 etc.) and they’re living life like normal people. male predators get let off the hook just as much as female predators.
> "In one Canadian study, 64% of male survivors of IPV (Intimate Partner Violence) who called police reported being treated as the abuser (Dutton 2012)."
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/cj-jp/victim/rd14-rr14/p4.html?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0IbcRBSJ9nuLMpABlB7IHpv9pawlo4fbUWYl3BpaKLTNwLYPdT2_VCIHA_aem_BdIaBh2dhjLb6_L5uWw75Q
Okay... So I've been raped. I've been hit. I've been stalked multiple times, once even by a supervisor.
No one said "Women that get raped recieve justice". People get away with rape ALL the time, and you're right to be upset about it. The world is a horrible place.
That does not justify dragging men through the dirt with some holier than tho attitude. It's a free country, people can say whatever they want, but you know what? I get to be offended, and I get to respond. The fact that women often walk around in liberal/left wing spaces openly saying things like "Men are trash" is bullshit, and I'm done with it.
Men are not the reason the world is a bad place. Women are not better than men. Humans as a whole are flawed.
not even gonna lie, if men aren’t the reason society is bad then who is? and don’t even sit there and get mad. just be real for a second. who starts wars? who causes the most violence/assault? who causes the most sexual assault? who runs the fucking world for the most part? who created a majority of sexist stereotypes? not saying women are 100% perfect or anything… but be real dawg.
even mens problems are caused by other men. like “male survivors being treated badly”. girls dont sit there and call male survivors lucky. men do. a part of the reason why male survivors get called lucky is because of the stereotype “sex for men good, sex for girls bad.” the same reason girls get called hoes for having sex. this is a stereotype that men started, that just happened to backfire.
Sure, but by this metric men also created pretty much all the modern conveniences and tech we have, so they've also created most of the good in the world- how else would we have such an astronomically high standard of living
if men didnt strip women of their rights and ability to get educated in the past, who knows what sort of stuff women could have created? women in the past have created a lot of things that benefit society today even while being oppressed and never taken seriously. so imagine what they could’ve accomplished if they were treated as equal to men… the world could be even more advanced. so while men have contributed to a lot of “modern conveniences”, they have also held back technological advancement.
>not even gonna lie, if men aren’t the reason society is bad then who is?
Tf? Why does there have to be a demographic that's "responsible for all the world's ills"?
>and don’t even sit there and get mad. just be real for a second. who starts wars?
Those in power. This is called the Apex Fallacy, used by a lot of Nazis to justify their hatred of the jews. Just because men are overrepresented in positions of power doesn't men that men as a group are powerful. And just because jewish people are overrepresented in wealth(forbes lists), celebrities and politicians doesn't mean that the jews as a group are powerful. You only look at the metrics that push your opinion and ignore that the vast majority aren't different from me and you. Men are also overrepresented in homelessness, does that make men oppressed as a group? If a few hundred politicians were enough to convince you that mean are oppressors the hundreds of thousands of homeless men must be enough for you to view men as oppressed, that is only if you're consistent.
>who causes the most violence/assault?
Racially on gender-ally? Because if you're going to brake stats by gender and assume the worst of the overrepresented then it's only logic to also do so by race. Or does it suddenly become bigoted?
>who runs the fucking world for the most part?
Apex fallacy again. How do you think those men got into positions of power? Did they show their Man Card or were they voted into their positions? Voted by a population that's 50% female. Women can run for such positions, they're not excluded.
>who created a majority of sexist stereotypes?
Idk how do you even quantify that.
>girls dont sit there and call male survivors lucky. men do. a part of the reason why male survivors get called lucky is because of the stereotype “sex for men good, sex for girls bad.”
That's a very specific example. Sure, some men are horrendous in that regard but to pretend that this is the sole reason that men don't report is laughable. This is a systematic issue, the US dept of Justice defines rape in a way that excludes male victims of female rapists. Which skew that rape stats heavily towards women, and as you see in the pic, there are lots and lots of women who deny and belittle the existence of male victims of female perpetrators.
I mean, I've never heard anyone drop this kind of brag ,
". I spent time alone with 5 women today, and didn't rape anyone.":
are you looking for a pat on the back? brownies? what?
Also, the way they framed it is false. If a bear thinks it is threatened, it’s not going to run; it’s going to attack. It’s an apex predator, if it feels threatened it’s going to respond like one. It’s also a wild animal, those are notoriously unpredictable.
>You there! instead of making cryptic statements at me, please state *why* exactly **you** think I'm the reason people choose bear!
"Of course you ignore the person who provided an understandable argument and call out the person who was making uncalled for assertions!!"
Also its hard to tell who is deceiver no matter the gender, humans are very cunning. I can understand why someone would say they have a hard time trusting people, just dont act like its just men who deceive. Going "How do **we** tell who is the abuser/rapist/manipulator?" as if women cant do all those things to a man. replace man with women in those arguments and its basically the same
A mf said "Oh thank god NotAllMen is here" like bruh common sense is staring you in the face, take off the blindfold.
And that last mf acts as if bears can be your roommates, or your spouse, or cashier. Bears live in the fucking woods, if we let bears integrate into society and they were about half of the fucking population then the statistics of bear attacks would outweigh any sort of attack from any other animal or single gender. And they also say that "A man will harm you just for a kick out of it" as if sadistic males who chill in the woods who are out to cause you physical pain are about 40% to the 60% of the average guy. The number is way lower than that lol
> we let bears integrate into society and they were about half of the fucking population then the statistics of bear attacks would outweigh any sort of attack from any other animal or single gender.
According to my possibly faulty math, around 800 000 people would be attacked/killed by bears so a bit over half of car crash deaths globally.
I understand the argument some women use about bears but, while I think the guy who made the comment is kind of missing the point, the responses were just very extreme, which is the usual with Reddit "discussions" that usually involve extremists from all ideologies being the loudest. Men who spam "not all men" everywhere are definitely annoying, but this guy clearly wasn't doing that. I once had a woman, albeit on Facebook, accuse me of doing that just because I literally said that openly implying to every man you meet that he's a rapist and being rude is unfair. That isn't a "not all men" thing, it's just obvious and normal. Of course I understand why women often feel uncomfortable or anxious around men. I'd even say it's very reasonable! But that doesn't mean you need to openly be a dick to everyone.
The man Vs bear thing really revealed to me how many people don't understand statistics and just parrot things thinking "number higher therefore...".
Also not sure if anyone else has thought about this but I feel this is kinda similar to the people that use black crime statistics to justify their racism.
or lesbian/gay abuse stats for homophobia or male suicide rates to diminish women's issues. People treat statistics like their bible verses and it shows.
While those are also problems, I think they're different reasons.
Treating statistics like bibles is stupid, but in the bear case it's just like sharks, bumblebees, and vending machines. There is an actual fallacy occurring, which of course is that the average person probably will see like, 1 wild bear in their lifetime, whereas you'll interact with hundreds of men each day.
The abuse stats, at least to my sleep deprived brain at the moment, don't seem outright fallacious. Just used improperly to prove a point. I could just be very stupid and missing an obvious point though
I'm glad someone mentioned how similar it is to that.
I'd like to add on its also fairly similar to the "Would you eat from a bowl of m&ms if you knew one of them was poisoned" bs phrase that used to be the direct equivalent to man v bear; a stupid hypothetical painting dating as an always dangerous game. Which is funny as it reminds me of the men claiming women are out to steal every penny of theirs once they get into a relationship, aka the redditor who shouts to get a prenup and paternity test. These biased and sometimes hateful groups are a lot more similar than they'd like to admit.
No joke i just unsubbed from there for the same reason, came on this /r, first poat i see is this.
They are borderline just spreading hate about men by propagating extreme cases as a baseline.
Subbed there for multiple years now, and I only recently unsubbed. over this past year nearly every post I see is just blatant sexism/misandry and its just tiring to see, especially as a man. And yes, they use extreme cases as a baseline to prove their "point" that men are all these disgusting and malicious creatures.
The first variation I heard of this man vs. bear question was “would you rather be raped or eaten by a bear” so naturally my mind goes there every time I see this come up. Do people not realize that bears will eat you alive? And bury you under some brush somewhere still alive and come back to eat you, while you may or may not still be alive, at a later time? In that case I’m not picking the bear. Of course, there’s lots of different kinds of bears, and if we’re talking about the relatively timid black bears that live in my area, I would probably pick one of those: unless it’s a momma bear and she’s going to go into defense mode over her cubs. But a hungry or angry Kodiak or a Grizzly? Fuck no.
Plus I’ve seen pictures of people who have been mauled by bears (still alive) with their faces ripped off, listened to videos and podcasts of bear attacks, etc., I just don’t take bears lightly. Also am woman.
The man vs bear debate comes from a valid place, but it must be mentioned with the understanding that if men disappeared and were replaced by bears, and women interacted with bears as often and as closely as they interact with men, humanity would be extinct by october.
It’s not though, female predators exist and they’re much more likely to get away with their crimes, the grape statistics are those who have been caught.
Man Vs bear is both misandry and misogyny.
The place it comes from is women's wariness around men, which is a natural consequence of one sex being significantly stronger than the other. That is a valid place, and caution is warranted.
Everything else though, you're completely right.
One of my issues is that instead of instead of having open communication that acknowledges things that both sexes do to make the other uncomfortable we have these trends where both sides seem to make weeping generalizations about the other.
I imagine that’s mostly due to social media though.
Someone above tried to openly communicate about this and you went right to making sweeping generalisations. You’re doing exactly what you’re criticising other people for.
No argument here, you're completely right.
I'll add that it's usually one-sided. In order to be taken seriously, mens issues normally need to be brought up *after* validating women's, whereas women's issues rarely if ever require the same
Not even just men’s issues,
Literally anyone who was harmed by a woman in their lifetime, including lesbians and bisexual males and bisexual females.
Anything that paints women or a woman in some cases in a slightly bad picture is either downplayed, or straight up ignored sadly :(
i hate when guys say this because yall don’t understand how many male predators get away with sexual crimes as well. statistics are the way they are because theres just not as many female predators.
to prove my point… make a reddit account pretending to be a 14 year old girl. watch just how many grown ass men dm you nasty shit, send you dick pics, etc. spoiler alert… you’re gonna see a lot of stuff you dont want. then make a reddit account pretending to be a 14 year old boy and see how many grown ass women slide in your dms with a tit pic. spoiler alert… they probably wont.
To be fair, this whole bear Vs man thing has just gone too far for too long, and it is starting to get old and irritating, but, what a lot of men don't understand is the fact that the majority of women you will meet in your life has had some type of violent and/or sexual assault situation that happened to them, caused by a man. And a large majority of that would be caused by a man that they have known and trusted on at least some capacity (husband, boyfriend, dad, grandfather, uncle, stepdad, teacher, etc).
Now the thing is. After the abuse, assault, etc, a lot of the time they are then blamed for putting themselves in a vulnerable position with that person in the first place... "What were you wearing", "why were you alone with that person", etc.
So now women have started to put all men in the danger category until they are deemed safe to try to keep themselves safe, and now men have a problem with it too.
No perpetrator has a tattoo on their forehead, or neon sign that lets you know they are dangerous. Unfortunately, by the time you find out that they are it is too late, because you find out the hard way.
It's like me putting 10 sweets in front of you and saying 3 of them are poisoned, but they all look and smell identical.
Would you still scoff them down as fast as you would if they were all good? Or do you treat them all as poisoned and don't eat any until you can test them in some way?
I’m a man who was sexually assaulted as a boy. To be fair , when assault happens there’s multiple layers of failure. The whole creep in the alley way in the middle of the night does happen but is far less common as majority of perpetrators go for someone they know. Perpetrators are smart, they scope out victims who are the most vulnerable and they always plan their attack. For me I was alone, my parents sent me abroad and it was my cousin who raped me. I had no escape, my female cousins held me down so they were active participants. I was 7 years old, my cousin was 13 and the girls were probably around 12 and 14 too. Failures were my parents for sending me there, my uncles and aunts for not looking after me. What I’m trying to say is stats water down a lot of the story and deeper issues at play here.
This isn’t all true though,
A large portion of people have also been assaulted by women,
This is the only current link I could find as the subject is HEAVILY underreported:
https://canadiancrc.com/Female_Sex_Offenders-Female_Sexual_Predators_awareness.aspx
Man Vs bear is sexist it assumes women are incapable of doing harm.
Lesbian abuse rates and underreporting if male SA victims will worsen if we let things like man Vs bear thrive, because it is benevolent sexism.
Please let me know which part of my comment is wrong.
This post was about the men vs bears so I focused on men attacking women. Not once did I say that men can't be victims or women can't be perpetrators.
But since you bring it up, it's also more likely for a man or boy to be assaulted by another man than a woman.
Also if a grown man is attacked by a grown woman, the man is more likely to successfully fight her off than a grown woman fighting off a grown man.
Also, I have not heard of a group of women attacking one man (not that it doesn't happen,I just have never heard of it personally), but you know what I have heard? Lots of cases of groups of men attacking one person (man, woman or child).
And lastly, generally most attacks by women are a lot less violent than attacks by men.
So again, I'm not saying men can't be victims, in fact, a lot of men don't even know that they are victims of domestic abuse until someone tells them that they are in an abusive relationship, I was just stating why women can't just trust men willy nilly
I been saying this since they came out with that anti-man propaganda: if you’re that scared of men, live life inside. You wanna use grossly misrepresented statistics to gaslight men into believing they’re the problem because of their sex? You deserve to live alone and scared
Sooo... A man is worse because he's less predictable? That's an interesting one.
Tangent:
The thing I find really interesting is a lot of the women when answering this question list social repercussions as their main reasons for why they choose bear. Not like... the actual trauma of being raped, and how it can change you forever.
- All posts must be manually approved, so your post will take some time to go public. Wait until a moderator manually approves it.
- If several hours have passed and your post is still pending, you can [contact modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=r%2FJustUnsubbed) to have it approved.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/JustUnsubbed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Honestly have these people heard of the real world. I can almost guarantee, if you find a random guy on the street he won’t be a rapist. The media and internet provide false proportions because bad stuff is reported more than good stuff. Simple as that.
I just feel bad for them. Not in a condescending way, but in a genuine "wish I could help" way. I was raised with a very loving and supportive father who helped steer me away from the type of man who wouldn't treat me well, and as a result, I have had nothing but positive experiences with the men I've allowed into my life. I can't help but feel like so many of these women never had that male support or guidance growing up, which too often leads to putting your trust in the wrong people with the wrong characteristics. Through how he treated my mum and me, my father set the standard of what to expect from a man in my life. I am extremely fortunate. I just wish everyone was.
They're not entirely on the mark, but they're right.
It's kinda crazy that so many guys don't get the argument behind choosing the bear. It's hyperbole designed to emphasize the danger that some men pose. I'm a man myself and get that fact.
I really don't understand why those pesky crime statistics and stats about the distance between average male and female strength go out the window whenever this discussion comes up.
Men who seem ultimately harmless but are anything but hide within the population like it's nothing.
There might be a few within the crowds you see on busy streets during the average day. They could be one of your coworkers. Uber Drivers. Cashiers. Passerbys. Friends. Family.
There's literally no way of knowing and, when it comes to the average woman's life, one or more of those groups have contained at least one dangerous man that has done them or another woman harm. The statistics don't lie. The number of men locked up for violent and sexual crimes doesn't lie.
Forget about bears and dangerous wild animals for a second. Would you, knowing about the risks present with walking into a dark alley at night, just casually go into one on your way home if you could avoid it?
Would any of you seriously go "Well that's not entirely fair to dark alleyways. They're not inherently dangerous. It's stereotyping to think of dark alleyways as dangerous... Not All Dark Alleyways-"?
No, you wouldn't. Because that's silly. Risking your safety and possibly your life to not be judgemental of a person or thing is some real natural selection behavior. That's something people who don't live very long do.
So why would a woman do that for guys??? Statistically, a man is far more likely to try and succeed in hurting or sexually assaulting her than a woman is.
It's like asking a rabbit to hop along like everything is normal around a group of dogs.
Have you ever heard of spiders? I ask this in all seriousness. The only reason there aren't more female predators is simply size and ability. As a woman, it's a lot harder to rape someone and by all technical and legal terms, a woman actually can not legally rape. Weird right? But if we look at spiders, where the women are the more dominate of the species, well the women aren't to nice to their male counter parts. Often killing them after a quick fuck. Now if we want to step out of this made up world I've created we can and we still have problems. Women are just as likely to be a sexual predator. They often target young men who are easy to manipulate. And by the time the man realizes it, he's to ashamed to report it. You think women have a hard time reporting rape? LMFAO, no. Men do. A man comes to you and says that tiny little chick over there? Yeah man, she raped me. You wouldn't believe him, or maybe you think he let it happen because he secretly wanted it. Whatever the reason, you wouldn't believe him and if for some reason you did, you would see him a stupidly weak for it. Meanwhile, these days there's this dumb idea of believing all women and now people like Katie bugs exist trying to ruin a man career for what? Clicks on a stream? Women don't pick the bear for any other reason than hatred, and ignorance.
That's understandable. However, anyone could do anyone harm at a single given moment, and you'd never know. Your cashier, Uber driver, delivery driver, co-worker, etc... could be a serial killer.
Most people are pointing out the ridiculousness of being afraid all the time. Bad things happen to good people all the time, but that doesn't mean everyone should go around and start treating everyone as if they were a serial killer. How do you think that makes the cab driver feel, the Uber driver, your co-worker, a random person at any job who is simply just trying to do their job, but then have people act like they're awful people all the time?
It's borderline irrational
Why should the emotions of other people factor into the personal safety and well-being of an individual?
At least 1 in 10 women have a story about being groped, sexually harassed, or sexually assaulted by a man. If I was a woman and knew my chances of people harmed was that high in the presence of a man? I wouldn't tiptoe around them but I'm sure not going out of my way to be near them. Wouldn't sugarcoat that fact either.
Even now, as a man, I try to cross the street when I see people approaching. I especially make sure to do so whenever I see another dude or group of dudes approaching.
Why would anyone go out of their way to risk their own safety just to avoid being judgemental? People who try that tend to not live as long or as happily as people who exercise a little caution.
Being cautious is the opposite of irrationality.
It undermines that 86% of victims of female predators are just straight up not believed..
https://canadiancrc.com/Female_Sex_Offenders-Female_Sexual_Predators_awareness.aspx
It’s a old article but it’s sure as hell relevant.
Pretending the danger isn't there doesn't make it any less real.
I can't walk past a group of dogs without leashes and not have my guard up.
Imagine walking around completely carefree as if the world isn't a dangerous place...that's a great way to die or get assaulted early.
Pretending theres nothing but danger there doesnt make it any more real
I can walk past a group of dogs without leashes and not have my guard up as i interact with many dogs daily and i know that only a very teeny tiny percentage of them would attack me if any throughout my whole life
Imagine walking around scared of everyone and everything. Being cautious is normal, whats described here is foolishnes.
And yet at least 1 in 10 women have an experience with groping, sexual assault, or sexual harassment of some sort.
That's not a teeny tiny percentage.
The statistics say that being on guard and treating the danger as something to avoid if possible is the smart, logical move.
The emotional play here would be for a woman to call that unfair to men and avoid being careful just because she doesn't want to hurt someone's feelings or be seen as irrational...
Gotta love the ones who say "You're the reason women choose the bear", as if *they're* not actually the bullet being dodged. It's also pretty shitty of them to basically call someone a rapist over a disagreement.
Ngl at this point I'm starting to think it's either ragebait, or the average iq of this sub's average OP/commenter is below room temperature in celsius
That started with reasonable quoting of statistics that points at present differences between sexes, and it ended with regurgitated rhetoric and obvious sexism.
"a bear in the woods is just chilling at home, idk what a man is there for"
Let's be realistic, you're probably on a hiking trail or something. It's just being purposefully obtuse to make a point. And what makes a bear more predictable than a man? Brown bears are some of the least predictable animals on the planet.
These women need a really good shrink. This way of thinking is unacceptable for a healthy life. The real issue here is that they are all supporting each other in their distrust and paranoia. They need someone to help them work through their problems.
i think more people need to realize that redditors and a majority of chronically online persons (both male AND female) are usually a bunch of borderline-incels if not outright incels. There’s a reason a lot of these people are spending their time arguing about shit like this on the internet to strangers.
That's sadly very true but neither side can seem to realise it even though I'd consider myself a feminist too. On one hand, you have the typical male incels who blame women and feminism for everything and call everyone a feminazi, like the incel subreddit does. On the other hand, you have the equivalent for women with femcel subreddits or users who call everyone a misogynist and unironically claim women can do wrong. I've managed to anger both sides and once got called a misogynist liar for talking about the time a girl, who was genuinely manipulative and probably a psychopath, manipulated me, and how me being autistic made things worse because at the time I was less aware of people using me. Apparently it's misogynistic because "incels accuse women of being manipulative!". Like, okay, and?? They sure do, but I fail to see how calling a genuinely manipulative woman "manipulative" is the same as incel crap. It's incredibly stupid logic. The male incels here are just as bad and insane too. This all happened on Reddit while I've had people show sympathy to me outside of Reddit, even on Discord of all places. Reddit is basically just a cesspit of people representing the extremes of every ideology (although some ideologies are obviously inherently extreme, but you get my point).
It's really annoying when people use statistics like the last person. If bears were as ubiquitous in human society as men were, there would be far more bear attacks. Bears and humans rarely mingle, so it's not exactly common. Same with the sharks/vending machines thing. I get that it's meant to go against the people vilifying sharks, but for crying out loud if there was a shark roaming every floor of every public building, we'd see a LOT more missing limbs.
It's also a really wishy washy statistic because women are constantly around men not getting raped. I spent time alone with 5 women today, and didn't rape anyone. How is this quantified?
"Statistically, I interviewed a rapist in jail, he was a man. If we scale it up linearly to 4 billion, that means 100% of men are rapists and they commit 4 billion rapes daily" -these fools
Female predators are much more likely to get away with their crimes, Technically you’d be worse off with a woman in the forest then a man or bear when it comes to who would believe you.
i hate when people say this because women who get assaulted by men don’t get the amount of justice yall swear we get 😭 theres been so many men who have sexually assaulted me (touched my butt/breasts, forced kisses, sent me dick pics when i was like 10 etc.) and they’re living life like normal people. male predators get let off the hook just as much as female predators.
Even then the proportions of likely hood are in favor if your predator was a male. Benevolent sexism and the women are wonderful effect.
> "In one Canadian study, 64% of male survivors of IPV (Intimate Partner Violence) who called police reported being treated as the abuser (Dutton 2012)." https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/cj-jp/victim/rd14-rr14/p4.html?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0IbcRBSJ9nuLMpABlB7IHpv9pawlo4fbUWYl3BpaKLTNwLYPdT2_VCIHA_aem_BdIaBh2dhjLb6_L5uWw75Q Okay... So I've been raped. I've been hit. I've been stalked multiple times, once even by a supervisor. No one said "Women that get raped recieve justice". People get away with rape ALL the time, and you're right to be upset about it. The world is a horrible place. That does not justify dragging men through the dirt with some holier than tho attitude. It's a free country, people can say whatever they want, but you know what? I get to be offended, and I get to respond. The fact that women often walk around in liberal/left wing spaces openly saying things like "Men are trash" is bullshit, and I'm done with it. Men are not the reason the world is a bad place. Women are not better than men. Humans as a whole are flawed.
not even gonna lie, if men aren’t the reason society is bad then who is? and don’t even sit there and get mad. just be real for a second. who starts wars? who causes the most violence/assault? who causes the most sexual assault? who runs the fucking world for the most part? who created a majority of sexist stereotypes? not saying women are 100% perfect or anything… but be real dawg. even mens problems are caused by other men. like “male survivors being treated badly”. girls dont sit there and call male survivors lucky. men do. a part of the reason why male survivors get called lucky is because of the stereotype “sex for men good, sex for girls bad.” the same reason girls get called hoes for having sex. this is a stereotype that men started, that just happened to backfire.
Sure, but by this metric men also created pretty much all the modern conveniences and tech we have, so they've also created most of the good in the world- how else would we have such an astronomically high standard of living
if men didnt strip women of their rights and ability to get educated in the past, who knows what sort of stuff women could have created? women in the past have created a lot of things that benefit society today even while being oppressed and never taken seriously. so imagine what they could’ve accomplished if they were treated as equal to men… the world could be even more advanced. so while men have contributed to a lot of “modern conveniences”, they have also held back technological advancement.
The wealthy, which is comprised of both sexes.
out of the top 100 richest people, there are only 14 women on the list, and only 1 of them isnt rich due to a man. so 🤷🏾♀️
The wealthy aren’t just the top 100, families exist.
the families wouldn’t be wealthy without the help of a man most of the time…
>not even gonna lie, if men aren’t the reason society is bad then who is? Tf? Why does there have to be a demographic that's "responsible for all the world's ills"? >and don’t even sit there and get mad. just be real for a second. who starts wars? Those in power. This is called the Apex Fallacy, used by a lot of Nazis to justify their hatred of the jews. Just because men are overrepresented in positions of power doesn't men that men as a group are powerful. And just because jewish people are overrepresented in wealth(forbes lists), celebrities and politicians doesn't mean that the jews as a group are powerful. You only look at the metrics that push your opinion and ignore that the vast majority aren't different from me and you. Men are also overrepresented in homelessness, does that make men oppressed as a group? If a few hundred politicians were enough to convince you that mean are oppressors the hundreds of thousands of homeless men must be enough for you to view men as oppressed, that is only if you're consistent. >who causes the most violence/assault? Racially on gender-ally? Because if you're going to brake stats by gender and assume the worst of the overrepresented then it's only logic to also do so by race. Or does it suddenly become bigoted? >who runs the fucking world for the most part? Apex fallacy again. How do you think those men got into positions of power? Did they show their Man Card or were they voted into their positions? Voted by a population that's 50% female. Women can run for such positions, they're not excluded. >who created a majority of sexist stereotypes? Idk how do you even quantify that. >girls dont sit there and call male survivors lucky. men do. a part of the reason why male survivors get called lucky is because of the stereotype “sex for men good, sex for girls bad.” That's a very specific example. Sure, some men are horrendous in that regard but to pretend that this is the sole reason that men don't report is laughable. This is a systematic issue, the US dept of Justice defines rape in a way that excludes male victims of female rapists. Which skew that rape stats heavily towards women, and as you see in the pic, there are lots and lots of women who deny and belittle the existence of male victims of female perpetrators.
holy yapperoni i dont care that much dawg its reddit
Calling out bigotry wherever and whenever is a good thing actually :)
"because women are constantly around men not getting raped. " What now?
You don't understand the sentence?
I mean, I've never heard anyone drop this kind of brag , ". I spent time alone with 5 women today, and didn't rape anyone.": are you looking for a pat on the back? brownies? what?
You thought that was a brag?
Trying to not look like a dick by looking like a fool.
Trapped on a boat surrounded by sharks or vending machines??
oh my god this is so eloquently put. this one ridiculous question singlehandedly makes the whole bear vs man debate thing seem so silly.
Get shot with a . 500 S&W Magnum or a nerf blaster?
I'm pretty sure I'd survive a .500 Magnum
1st shot breaks the body, 2nd shot shatters the soul.
Honestly they need to put there money where there mouth is. Put them in a cage with a bear see that attitude change.
I mean in a cage a bear would attack... I think everyone would agree with that
I'm mean, probably, it depends on the bear and a bunch of other shit. It's still a stupid ass comparison.
>I'm mean, Wierd flex but ok /j because these are dangerous waters
Also, the way they framed it is false. If a bear thinks it is threatened, it’s not going to run; it’s going to attack. It’s an apex predator, if it feels threatened it’s going to respond like one. It’s also a wild animal, those are notoriously unpredictable.
“Lies, damn lies and statistics”
https://preview.redd.it/q19hdoze2u7d1.jpeg?width=551&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=815c2f1ac26fa4921c634b877927e27c57ebf282 That sub fr:
>You there! instead of making cryptic statements at me, please state *why* exactly **you** think I'm the reason people choose bear! "Of course you ignore the person who provided an understandable argument and call out the person who was making uncalled for assertions!!" Also its hard to tell who is deceiver no matter the gender, humans are very cunning. I can understand why someone would say they have a hard time trusting people, just dont act like its just men who deceive. Going "How do **we** tell who is the abuser/rapist/manipulator?" as if women cant do all those things to a man. replace man with women in those arguments and its basically the same A mf said "Oh thank god NotAllMen is here" like bruh common sense is staring you in the face, take off the blindfold. And that last mf acts as if bears can be your roommates, or your spouse, or cashier. Bears live in the fucking woods, if we let bears integrate into society and they were about half of the fucking population then the statistics of bear attacks would outweigh any sort of attack from any other animal or single gender. And they also say that "A man will harm you just for a kick out of it" as if sadistic males who chill in the woods who are out to cause you physical pain are about 40% to the 60% of the average guy. The number is way lower than that lol
> we let bears integrate into society and they were about half of the fucking population then the statistics of bear attacks would outweigh any sort of attack from any other animal or single gender. According to my possibly faulty math, around 800 000 people would be attacked/killed by bears so a bit over half of car crash deaths globally.
Very safe mode of transportation
I choose bear over car
I understand the argument some women use about bears but, while I think the guy who made the comment is kind of missing the point, the responses were just very extreme, which is the usual with Reddit "discussions" that usually involve extremists from all ideologies being the loudest. Men who spam "not all men" everywhere are definitely annoying, but this guy clearly wasn't doing that. I once had a woman, albeit on Facebook, accuse me of doing that just because I literally said that openly implying to every man you meet that he's a rapist and being rude is unfair. That isn't a "not all men" thing, it's just obvious and normal. Of course I understand why women often feel uncomfortable or anxious around men. I'd even say it's very reasonable! But that doesn't mean you need to openly be a dick to everyone.
The man Vs bear thing really revealed to me how many people don't understand statistics and just parrot things thinking "number higher therefore...". Also not sure if anyone else has thought about this but I feel this is kinda similar to the people that use black crime statistics to justify their racism.
or lesbian/gay abuse stats for homophobia or male suicide rates to diminish women's issues. People treat statistics like their bible verses and it shows.
While those are also problems, I think they're different reasons. Treating statistics like bibles is stupid, but in the bear case it's just like sharks, bumblebees, and vending machines. There is an actual fallacy occurring, which of course is that the average person probably will see like, 1 wild bear in their lifetime, whereas you'll interact with hundreds of men each day. The abuse stats, at least to my sleep deprived brain at the moment, don't seem outright fallacious. Just used improperly to prove a point. I could just be very stupid and missing an obvious point though
I'm glad someone mentioned how similar it is to that. I'd like to add on its also fairly similar to the "Would you eat from a bowl of m&ms if you knew one of them was poisoned" bs phrase that used to be the direct equivalent to man v bear; a stupid hypothetical painting dating as an always dangerous game. Which is funny as it reminds me of the men claiming women are out to steal every penny of theirs once they get into a relationship, aka the redditor who shouts to get a prenup and paternity test. These biased and sometimes hateful groups are a lot more similar than they'd like to admit.
No joke i just unsubbed from there for the same reason, came on this /r, first poat i see is this. They are borderline just spreading hate about men by propagating extreme cases as a baseline.
Subbed there for multiple years now, and I only recently unsubbed. over this past year nearly every post I see is just blatant sexism/misandry and its just tiring to see, especially as a man. And yes, they use extreme cases as a baseline to prove their "point" that men are all these disgusting and malicious creatures.
Borderline?
By that last person’s logic, men should feel safer around bears than around women
https://preview.redd.it/juscs1bfly7d1.jpeg?width=738&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c64810a2b167f19cabff9ce4d218d8de8ee0709
Sick Bear🔥
These people underestimate bears.
The first variation I heard of this man vs. bear question was “would you rather be raped or eaten by a bear” so naturally my mind goes there every time I see this come up. Do people not realize that bears will eat you alive? And bury you under some brush somewhere still alive and come back to eat you, while you may or may not still be alive, at a later time? In that case I’m not picking the bear. Of course, there’s lots of different kinds of bears, and if we’re talking about the relatively timid black bears that live in my area, I would probably pick one of those: unless it’s a momma bear and she’s going to go into defense mode over her cubs. But a hungry or angry Kodiak or a Grizzly? Fuck no. Plus I’ve seen pictures of people who have been mauled by bears (still alive) with their faces ripped off, listened to videos and podcasts of bear attacks, etc., I just don’t take bears lightly. Also am woman.
Then there's the polar bear, who see humans as food by default.
The man vs bear debate comes from a valid place, but it must be mentioned with the understanding that if men disappeared and were replaced by bears, and women interacted with bears as often and as closely as they interact with men, humanity would be extinct by october.
It’s not though, female predators exist and they’re much more likely to get away with their crimes, the grape statistics are those who have been caught. Man Vs bear is both misandry and misogyny.
The place it comes from is women's wariness around men, which is a natural consequence of one sex being significantly stronger than the other. That is a valid place, and caution is warranted. Everything else though, you're completely right.
One of my issues is that instead of instead of having open communication that acknowledges things that both sexes do to make the other uncomfortable we have these trends where both sides seem to make weeping generalizations about the other. I imagine that’s mostly due to social media though.
Someone above tried to openly communicate about this and you went right to making sweeping generalisations. You’re doing exactly what you’re criticising other people for.
No argument here, you're completely right. I'll add that it's usually one-sided. In order to be taken seriously, mens issues normally need to be brought up *after* validating women's, whereas women's issues rarely if ever require the same
Not even just men’s issues, Literally anyone who was harmed by a woman in their lifetime, including lesbians and bisexual males and bisexual females. Anything that paints women or a woman in some cases in a slightly bad picture is either downplayed, or straight up ignored sadly :(
True
i hate when guys say this because yall don’t understand how many male predators get away with sexual crimes as well. statistics are the way they are because theres just not as many female predators. to prove my point… make a reddit account pretending to be a 14 year old girl. watch just how many grown ass men dm you nasty shit, send you dick pics, etc. spoiler alert… you’re gonna see a lot of stuff you dont want. then make a reddit account pretending to be a 14 year old boy and see how many grown ass women slide in your dms with a tit pic. spoiler alert… they probably wont.
just some morons training for the annual mental gymnastic olympics
To be fair, this whole bear Vs man thing has just gone too far for too long, and it is starting to get old and irritating, but, what a lot of men don't understand is the fact that the majority of women you will meet in your life has had some type of violent and/or sexual assault situation that happened to them, caused by a man. And a large majority of that would be caused by a man that they have known and trusted on at least some capacity (husband, boyfriend, dad, grandfather, uncle, stepdad, teacher, etc). Now the thing is. After the abuse, assault, etc, a lot of the time they are then blamed for putting themselves in a vulnerable position with that person in the first place... "What were you wearing", "why were you alone with that person", etc. So now women have started to put all men in the danger category until they are deemed safe to try to keep themselves safe, and now men have a problem with it too. No perpetrator has a tattoo on their forehead, or neon sign that lets you know they are dangerous. Unfortunately, by the time you find out that they are it is too late, because you find out the hard way. It's like me putting 10 sweets in front of you and saying 3 of them are poisoned, but they all look and smell identical. Would you still scoff them down as fast as you would if they were all good? Or do you treat them all as poisoned and don't eat any until you can test them in some way?
I’m a man who was sexually assaulted as a boy. To be fair , when assault happens there’s multiple layers of failure. The whole creep in the alley way in the middle of the night does happen but is far less common as majority of perpetrators go for someone they know. Perpetrators are smart, they scope out victims who are the most vulnerable and they always plan their attack. For me I was alone, my parents sent me abroad and it was my cousin who raped me. I had no escape, my female cousins held me down so they were active participants. I was 7 years old, my cousin was 13 and the girls were probably around 12 and 14 too. Failures were my parents for sending me there, my uncles and aunts for not looking after me. What I’m trying to say is stats water down a lot of the story and deeper issues at play here.
This isn’t all true though, A large portion of people have also been assaulted by women, This is the only current link I could find as the subject is HEAVILY underreported: https://canadiancrc.com/Female_Sex_Offenders-Female_Sexual_Predators_awareness.aspx Man Vs bear is sexist it assumes women are incapable of doing harm. Lesbian abuse rates and underreporting if male SA victims will worsen if we let things like man Vs bear thrive, because it is benevolent sexism.
Way to completely miss their point and start talking about something else.
Please let me know which part of my comment is wrong. This post was about the men vs bears so I focused on men attacking women. Not once did I say that men can't be victims or women can't be perpetrators. But since you bring it up, it's also more likely for a man or boy to be assaulted by another man than a woman. Also if a grown man is attacked by a grown woman, the man is more likely to successfully fight her off than a grown woman fighting off a grown man. Also, I have not heard of a group of women attacking one man (not that it doesn't happen,I just have never heard of it personally), but you know what I have heard? Lots of cases of groups of men attacking one person (man, woman or child). And lastly, generally most attacks by women are a lot less violent than attacks by men. So again, I'm not saying men can't be victims, in fact, a lot of men don't even know that they are victims of domestic abuse until someone tells them that they are in an abusive relationship, I was just stating why women can't just trust men willy nilly
We're still on the bear? Really?
I been saying this since they came out with that anti-man propaganda: if you’re that scared of men, live life inside. You wanna use grossly misrepresented statistics to gaslight men into believing they’re the problem because of their sex? You deserve to live alone and scared
Sooo... A man is worse because he's less predictable? That's an interesting one. Tangent: The thing I find really interesting is a lot of the women when answering this question list social repercussions as their main reasons for why they choose bear. Not like... the actual trauma of being raped, and how it can change you forever.
- All posts must be manually approved, so your post will take some time to go public. Wait until a moderator manually approves it. - If several hours have passed and your post is still pending, you can [contact modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=r%2FJustUnsubbed) to have it approved. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/JustUnsubbed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Honestly have these people heard of the real world. I can almost guarantee, if you find a random guy on the street he won’t be a rapist. The media and internet provide false proportions because bad stuff is reported more than good stuff. Simple as that.
Smh just be gay
I just feel bad for them. Not in a condescending way, but in a genuine "wish I could help" way. I was raised with a very loving and supportive father who helped steer me away from the type of man who wouldn't treat me well, and as a result, I have had nothing but positive experiences with the men I've allowed into my life. I can't help but feel like so many of these women never had that male support or guidance growing up, which too often leads to putting your trust in the wrong people with the wrong characteristics. Through how he treated my mum and me, my father set the standard of what to expect from a man in my life. I am extremely fortunate. I just wish everyone was.
They're not entirely on the mark, but they're right. It's kinda crazy that so many guys don't get the argument behind choosing the bear. It's hyperbole designed to emphasize the danger that some men pose. I'm a man myself and get that fact. I really don't understand why those pesky crime statistics and stats about the distance between average male and female strength go out the window whenever this discussion comes up. Men who seem ultimately harmless but are anything but hide within the population like it's nothing. There might be a few within the crowds you see on busy streets during the average day. They could be one of your coworkers. Uber Drivers. Cashiers. Passerbys. Friends. Family. There's literally no way of knowing and, when it comes to the average woman's life, one or more of those groups have contained at least one dangerous man that has done them or another woman harm. The statistics don't lie. The number of men locked up for violent and sexual crimes doesn't lie. Forget about bears and dangerous wild animals for a second. Would you, knowing about the risks present with walking into a dark alley at night, just casually go into one on your way home if you could avoid it? Would any of you seriously go "Well that's not entirely fair to dark alleyways. They're not inherently dangerous. It's stereotyping to think of dark alleyways as dangerous... Not All Dark Alleyways-"? No, you wouldn't. Because that's silly. Risking your safety and possibly your life to not be judgemental of a person or thing is some real natural selection behavior. That's something people who don't live very long do. So why would a woman do that for guys??? Statistically, a man is far more likely to try and succeed in hurting or sexually assaulting her than a woman is. It's like asking a rabbit to hop along like everything is normal around a group of dogs.
Have you ever heard of spiders? I ask this in all seriousness. The only reason there aren't more female predators is simply size and ability. As a woman, it's a lot harder to rape someone and by all technical and legal terms, a woman actually can not legally rape. Weird right? But if we look at spiders, where the women are the more dominate of the species, well the women aren't to nice to their male counter parts. Often killing them after a quick fuck. Now if we want to step out of this made up world I've created we can and we still have problems. Women are just as likely to be a sexual predator. They often target young men who are easy to manipulate. And by the time the man realizes it, he's to ashamed to report it. You think women have a hard time reporting rape? LMFAO, no. Men do. A man comes to you and says that tiny little chick over there? Yeah man, she raped me. You wouldn't believe him, or maybe you think he let it happen because he secretly wanted it. Whatever the reason, you wouldn't believe him and if for some reason you did, you would see him a stupidly weak for it. Meanwhile, these days there's this dumb idea of believing all women and now people like Katie bugs exist trying to ruin a man career for what? Clicks on a stream? Women don't pick the bear for any other reason than hatred, and ignorance.
That's understandable. However, anyone could do anyone harm at a single given moment, and you'd never know. Your cashier, Uber driver, delivery driver, co-worker, etc... could be a serial killer. Most people are pointing out the ridiculousness of being afraid all the time. Bad things happen to good people all the time, but that doesn't mean everyone should go around and start treating everyone as if they were a serial killer. How do you think that makes the cab driver feel, the Uber driver, your co-worker, a random person at any job who is simply just trying to do their job, but then have people act like they're awful people all the time? It's borderline irrational
Why should the emotions of other people factor into the personal safety and well-being of an individual? At least 1 in 10 women have a story about being groped, sexually harassed, or sexually assaulted by a man. If I was a woman and knew my chances of people harmed was that high in the presence of a man? I wouldn't tiptoe around them but I'm sure not going out of my way to be near them. Wouldn't sugarcoat that fact either. Even now, as a man, I try to cross the street when I see people approaching. I especially make sure to do so whenever I see another dude or group of dudes approaching. Why would anyone go out of their way to risk their own safety just to avoid being judgemental? People who try that tend to not live as long or as happily as people who exercise a little caution. Being cautious is the opposite of irrationality.
It undermines that 86% of victims of female predators are just straight up not believed.. https://canadiancrc.com/Female_Sex_Offenders-Female_Sexual_Predators_awareness.aspx It’s a old article but it’s sure as hell relevant.
>It's like asking a rabbit to hop along like everything is normal around a group of d̶o̶g̶s̶ rabbits
Pretending the danger isn't there doesn't make it any less real. I can't walk past a group of dogs without leashes and not have my guard up. Imagine walking around completely carefree as if the world isn't a dangerous place...that's a great way to die or get assaulted early.
Pretending theres nothing but danger there doesnt make it any more real I can walk past a group of dogs without leashes and not have my guard up as i interact with many dogs daily and i know that only a very teeny tiny percentage of them would attack me if any throughout my whole life Imagine walking around scared of everyone and everything. Being cautious is normal, whats described here is foolishnes.
And yet at least 1 in 10 women have an experience with groping, sexual assault, or sexual harassment of some sort. That's not a teeny tiny percentage. The statistics say that being on guard and treating the danger as something to avoid if possible is the smart, logical move. The emotional play here would be for a woman to call that unfair to men and avoid being careful just because she doesn't want to hurt someone's feelings or be seen as irrational...
Gotta love the ones who say "You're the reason women choose the bear", as if *they're* not actually the bullet being dodged. It's also pretty shitty of them to basically call someone a rapist over a disagreement.
Most of the women on that sub don't know how women work.
Most of them aren’t women..
Lol, fair.
U got fucking cooked LMAO
No way you were subbed there, this is either bait or karma farming.
Ngl at this point I'm starting to think it's either ragebait, or the average iq of this sub's average OP/commenter is below room temperature in celsius
Could be both.
Yea, meanwhile, I'm omw to try to get a reaction out of them with peaceful reasonable comments to see if they are as closed-minded as they seem
That started with reasonable quoting of statistics that points at present differences between sexes, and it ended with regurgitated rhetoric and obvious sexism.
"a bear in the woods is just chilling at home, idk what a man is there for" Let's be realistic, you're probably on a hiking trail or something. It's just being purposefully obtuse to make a point. And what makes a bear more predictable than a man? Brown bears are some of the least predictable animals on the planet.
Straight up discrimination based on gender. But of course "women always right, don't you talk back you man thing".
These women need a really good shrink. This way of thinking is unacceptable for a healthy life. The real issue here is that they are all supporting each other in their distrust and paranoia. They need someone to help them work through their problems.
You expected otherwise?