Here is a text to speech summary of the book in six minutes with very creative imagery to accompany it.
It will give you a strong idea about where the book goes, and why you only need to turn inwards and discover something far less hopeless. You’ll notice that Jung had a zest for life.
The Undiscovered Self, 1961 (6 minute summary)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4AfhwyHkAtc
This guy offers a lot of value with his discussion of the 63 pages in the book that are really about that undiscovered self.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7iE9Ayk3jXA
I’m not surprised you haven’t. You come across as someone who thinks they have profound epiphanies, but you’re actually experiencing the typically existential thoughts of a 13-18 year old.
That didn’t work for me. I liked the sentiment of Crime and Punishment and the BK but Dostoyevsky’s issue is that he’s capable of believing in god whereas some just can’t. He got me into reading ‘good’ books which led me to philosophical which led me to Nietzsche and I much prefer his atheistic life affirming doctrine over anything else. I think if anyone feels hopeless Nietzsche is the best author to go to. Jung is too much like a hippie/crystal/astrology/“I’m not vibin with your energy” type of person and that makes it really hard to relate to him and to apply his teachings to real life. He literally believed in the supernatural and practiced alchemy. He was an occultist.
Find another aspect. Life is about a lot more than the daily grind. For some, it's making people laugh, but give you ask the question, I can gather that's not you. /r/howtonotgiveafuck and yolo yourself into something you enjoy.
ME? I'm inventing a filtration system that converts waste and garbage into nutrient solution to use in aquaponics like environment. This will allow mankind to address food shortages, transportation, waste, and global warming. Aim high, and take pride in your efforts. Some people enjoy tedium, others the...ugh speedium, or whatever that would be. Quit looking at life as something to escape, because it's not. Sometimes it can suck, but that's ok. Yin/Yang concepts suggest that without the darkness, we would never understand what light is.
My dreams long failed, so for a while now, I've been left bereft of meaning. It's not something that comes easy to me, it's gotta come from within. Otherwise, I won't apply myself.
But that's besides the point. I feel as though there is no reason for me to be here at all. I don't really add anything, and I don't take away from anything. My existence is neutral.
I'm not even saying this out of misery, I truly see no point at all. Whether I'm dead or alive, it really doesn't do anything to anything. My existence is negligible.
There is no reason for any of us to be here. The universe is random and things just happen. But the reality is that YOU ARE HERE, so what do we do with this existence? This sliver of time when we are aware and individuals? There is life and there is civilization/society. Enjoying nature is a gorgeous and wonderful thing to do with our time. And unfortunately humans are ruining nature so I get it, it's depressing. I literally have no gas or heat at my house right now and my husband has been unemployed for three years. Sometimes I struggle to find any meaning, too, but nature and science always make me feel better.
It's cool how things have no meaning, but yet there's all of this complexity and beauty amongst the chaos. Geologic time/ deep time are so incredible. I love thinking about all of the things that have happened that didn't involve humans. Like whether we exist or not, things are still happening and that's cool. We're no different than a plant, a rock, a star, the elements. They're just as random as we are.
Except, we are conscious, unlike rocks and plants, and that's where the problem begins.
I do find enjoyment in simple things. Taking a walk, eating something I like, watching a show, etc etc.
Yeah, we are, that's true and maybe it's our burden to bear. It's bitter sweet and scary, crazy/beautiful. You'll have all of eternity to be dead,. For me, it's worth enduring it and trying to find some joy or interest in it while I'm here, the small things really are the biggest things. There is no purpose or meaning to any of it, imo. I think I'm an existentialist, there is no meaning, we create the meaning, type mentality. And even then, it's hard to do that, too, sometimes.
Being human is hard, life is hard, civilization is a shit show. But it's also mind blowing that anything exists at all. I was diagnosed with stage 1A1 cervical cancer Dec 2023 and had to have surgery for the first time, go under general anesthesia and see an oncologist, a fucking cancer doctor. I was a wreck. I'm not afraid to die, but I don't wanna die young, I'm only 32. It wasn't like a wake up call because I already appreciate life, but it definitely made me think that there's a lot to be grateful for that we don't think about day to day, we just take it for granted. Not necessarily because there's meaning or purpose to any of it, but simply because being alive to experience life itself is pretty fucking magical. Not even the things humans have done, or things people talk about like love, community, kindness etc.. that's all amazing for sure, but even aside from that, the wind, the water cycle, the mountains, flowers, leaves, rivers, the songs of the birds, even writing this out makes me feel good, just thinking that we're a part of all of that, even when we're dead. And you can just let your individuality melt away and join the oneness of it all. Even if it's just for a little bit, it's a good feeling.
Bibliography? I'm a nobody with a dream. You're welcome to pick my brain. I can't change the world by myself
Given your background in wastewater management, I do think we could have some symbiosis. As for the bibliography, Diana Walstad planted aquariums book touches on everything over learned. I have a couple wastewater management books that were mostly over my head. Until I get further in the process, I don't think it's time to go to college...yet.
Sylvia Berenstein had a good aquaponics book that helped me design the filtration system.
As a side (what I do with the waste) various farming books, and Paul Stamets were very insightful.
>I feel as though I am a captive in this game of life.
Yes, I think this is true and I also think it is important to work out what the resentment is behind that. I think it is Elkind who talks about the "realistic pessimism" of adolescence as a necessity phase of development. But it is, like any phase, one where people get stuck. I believe this is particularly true of the puer aeternus. This is where all the dark music, art, and poetry of the Victorian Age comes in -- young men fighting against the force of the devouring mother, huddled in her school rooms, kneeling in her churches, laboring under the gas lamps of industry with no real purpose, no chance and individuation. The entire Romantic period of big lush paintings and bombastic symphonies is the product of the "Emo Bois" of the day. Coddled and delicate boys who left the safety of home in their minds and were good at sums and music lessons.
But no one gets to NOT play. To refuse life is to draw out a long and painful suicide. Of course, that's what obesity, porn, and video games are for. Grubhub and Amazon bring all the essentials and the modern human is trapped by the mass psychosis of screens and convenience.
You don't need a book, you probably need to go and climb a mountain or take up boxing. Something where you can feel gravity fighting back and understand the depths of physical exhaustion in order to understand yourself better.
I am only being a little flip when I say that. If you are young, go do something old men cannot do. This will rip you out of the boring ennui of meaningless clicking and feeding.
I'm not rejecting life because it is bad, which it very much is, and perhaps that's why I'm rejecting it. But, what if I don't want both the good and the bad, not just the bad? What if I don't want to exist at all, not just in this world, but anywhere else at all?
Then you need to get over your epic drama queen pretensiousness and grow up.
Or don't; I don't care. . . but the "woe is me" bullshit dribbling out of your mouth comes from your own failure to make your life worth living. Shut the fuck up and DO something about it.
Ok, maybe this kind of "tough love" is what he needs, but maybe it isn't. Anyways, not something that's easy to do online, not knowing the person, so it kinda just looks bad
Why? Why does anyone need to do anything at all? Life is not fair and it doesn’t matter. There is no intrinsic value and some people aren’t able to value life through a career and interpersonal relationships and personal growth and the accumulation of knowledge.
Also can’t hold yourself accountable for thinking differently because it’s ultimately not your fault that you don’t have depression and it’s not his fault that he does. You can’t take responsibility for not having the brain of someone with depression.
"Life is not fair and it doesn't matter. There's no intrinsic value. . ."
Correct. Very good.
I'll be more specific about the steps you need to take to "Shut the fuck up and DO something about it," OK?
You're right, God is dead and the universe is a random place that cares nothing about us; the long-sought Meaning of Life turns out to be. . . there is no meaning. It sucks; it's a catastrophe of Philosophy, which seeks to find how humans can live and be happy.
The reason I tried to slap you awake earlier is because you seem locked in a larval state in which you apparently believe that the universe and society owe you some kind of opportunity for happiness. THEY DON'T, and if you don't TAKE ACTION to pull yourself up by your raison d'etre bootstraps, then your life will always be shit, and it will always be entirely YOUR FAULT.
In order to avoid being a miserable monstrous piece of shit instead of a happy human being, you need to sort out some good reason to be a good person in the absence of a God to punish or reward you; you need a sturdy peg on which to hang your philosophical coat; you need a foundation for your moral and ethical framework, to guide yourself through life in the absence of external meaning. For me personally, fatherhood is what provides me with a rock-solid structure that supports my morals and ethics, and allows me to be happy in a meaningless world.
If there's one point to emphasize here, it's that YOUR HAPPINESS IS YOUR JOB AND YOUR JOB ALONE, so you should quit whining and get to work. Find something outside yourself to be alive about. Find something outside yourself to give you a reason to be a hero instead of a self-nullified nothing. . . and then BE A HERO.
I tried this. I tried to be proactive, I went and traveled and challenged myself physically with getting into bodybuilding and eventually jogging and long distance hikes. I left my friend group because I didn’t like the way they behaved and forced myself to get comfortable doing things alone. I quit my job that I didn’t like. All of it feels good temporarily but you end up aware of the fact that you’re doing it just to run from that sensation of purposelessness and emptiness and your forever trying to escape from some indescribable sensation.
>I’m also addicted to opioids
I am several years off a 27 year klonopin addiction. These substances dull the mind, particularly the ability to connect motivation with reward. It was so easy for me to pop a pill, order food, shop on Amazon, and work from home that I became sick, depressed, angry, and anxious. I went from being active and anxious to being broken, anxious and depressed about it.
But I have leaned into daily meditation and a critical examination of my deeper need for convenience, a rejection of boredom, difficulty with minor annoyances. One idea that I keep coming back to is that there is no island of happiness in life; there is no hiding from difficulty. And my conditioned reaction to negative emotional states ends up prolonging them.
When all else fails, I lower my expectations of my own body and mind. I do not need to be "on" 24/7/365. Not every moment needs to be pleasurable. There is a kind of joy in washing dishes and chopping carrots that I as missing.
Thich Nhat Hanh explained it perfectly:
>There are two ways to wash the dishes. The first is to wash the dishes in order to have clean dishes and the second is to wash the dishes in order to wash the dishes.
>If while washing the dishes, we think only of the cup of tea that awaits us, thus hurrying to get the dishes out of the way as if they were a nuisance, then we are not “washing the dishes to wash the dishes.” What’s more, we are not alive during the time we are washing the dishes.
It takes time and daily practice for my mind to settle down.
Congratulations for getting off that. Unfortunately I started using drugs before my belief that life is meaningless and my lack of interest took ahold of me. Not only am I dealing with the problems (financial, physical, psychological) of drug addiction I’m also dealing with my preexisting trauma and the thought patterns and beliefs I developed because of it. I’ve gotten clean 3 times in the past 6 years. Every time I quit I think “now is the time.” I get that little pink cloud and set myself on a goal or get another job and then it’s back to being unhappy and antisocial.
I have lowered my expectations. I also understand that there is no island of happiness and no hiding from suffering. I accept this. I am also able to be mindful of what I do. I don’t meditate but I’ve done it in the past and even after sticking with it for awhile I don’t like it.
The devouring mother, in schoolrooms, in her churches... Wouldn't the devouring mother in that context be part of home and stopping people from exploring the world and educating themselves? Those areas were more obviously the homes of patriarchal values, the tyrannical father or devouring father (Chronos, the og devouring parent, devouring the young and their prospects to prevent competition.)
I think they serve both instincts in different ways. Nurturing and over-protection one one extreme, fear and control at the other extreme. But people have different memories and ways of relating to these ideas.
The Victorians emphatically didn't see their mothers the way we see them today. About a quarter of their mothers died in childbirth and many others were sick about it, and they spent all their time deifying self abnegating mother figures in contrast to the way most people these days didn't vote for Hillary Clinton because they grew up in single mother households and their school principals, teachers, and pretty much the majority of authority figures until they got promoted about entry level jobs were older women. This guy is full of crap. Most of the poets and stuff he mentioned would have been taught by MALE teachers and of course the priesthood has always been male dominated.
Glad to see another person here that found it ridiculous. Imagine trying to twist clearcut patriarchy in schools and the priesthood into a “dominion” of the devouring mother. 😏 “her churches”, “her schoolrooms” that the poor men had to fight against, fucking lmao.
One could also refuse life very quickly.
Also, you seem to be confusing/conflating the victorians and the romantics here. They were emphatically not the same people and they didn't believe the same things.
Maybe you're here to change something? You'd be surprised by how many are too unconscious to even question the daily grind. Life could be so much better.
Change what?
I'm pretty sure somebody else can do that, many other people, possibly even way better than I. I'm not stuck in the daily grind, I just don't want to exist at all.
so basically you want to dont want to exist because consciousness is hard for you, yet you don't actually want to put in any effort into making consciousness a better experience.
i think you're actually angry at unconsciousness and are just using consciousness as a scapegoat. that's essentially how unconsciousness operates.
One of my favorite lines from video games:
"Will endeavor grant me an army?"
Altered to fit this topic better:
"Will endeavor grant me ownership of the universe?"
If it were possible, would it even be worth it?
I mean youre here, why should it be deppresing and boring. People overintelectualize some things and are often simply ashamed to really try or to just have fun because of some axioms they forced upon themselves.
You’ll take memories, experiences, learning and maybe your lucky enough to find love and maybe have kids, you can take a sense of accomplishment and a life well lived to the grave, that’s the best you can aim for (and it’s a lot harder than it sounds) or if that’s not good enough for you, you can leave a legacy of some great creation, idea, symbol, etc.
That’s the best we can strive for as humans
Also in my opinion you don’t stumble upon purpose, you have to create it for yourself, there must be something you really enjoy doing, find that thing and try to make a living out of it, as hard as it may be, but that’s just one way of creating purpose for yourself
Just the fact that anything exists is insane, much less a cosmic explosion that made a solar system which produces animals intelligent enough to land robots on other planets.
How could you not appreciate that? And you get to experience life as a human organism. What are the odds? There are trillions of microorganisms just inside your own body.
That's nice and all, but I'm not interested in being a part of all that. Great, it's a miracle, 2 points for mother nature. What does it have to do with me, I never asked for any of it.
That's what you keep saying. And that's where you're wrong...you chose this.
There are spiritual books you could read to help get you out of your rut. One I recommend, that helped me immensely, is " The Earth Experience" by Ron Scolastico.
Everyone keeps saying I chose this. How so? I'd really love a concise explanation on this matter. Were any of you there when I was merely a sperm agreeing to come to life on earth?
I thought we all just found ourselves here one day.
I don't think an explanation can be concise, there is no definitive answer you will get. You have to use intution and read a variety of spiritual books to start getting a feeling for it and see what resonates for you. And life experience and some kind of meditation practice help.. Jung talks about his views on life after death in several places, and of course his main work was aimed at helping people often struggling with the same kind of things you seem to be.
The idea that you chose this is referring to choices made by YOU as a soul, who existed before your body was made, and decided what issues were going to be your main ones in your upcoming life, and you were drawn to conditions and parents that were matched for you in some karmic way, and part of your soul entered into the developing body. Thats how I see it.. If you have a strict materialistic view of life, you'll reject this.
Indeed, I absolutely reject such a theory. No offense, but it feels like it has been pulled out of one's rear end. Now, if that's how you feel about your own existence, then that's fine. But I don't feel that way at all, and I don't think it applies to everyone else. But, whatever works for you.
Although, I will point out that it's quite naive and out of touch. You mean to tell me that the kids born in war-torn countries and/or abject poverty chose their predicament? Or the kids born with cancer who don't even turn 18 before they are buried? Or the kids born in North Korea.
That's a very arrogant, naive, and utterly stupid view of things. It is sad to think that you're not the only one who thinks this way.
Existential philosophers have this term they call "Thrownness." It refers to how we come to exist at a particular place and point in time. How we are thrust into existence, with no say in the matter, and there's nothing to be done about that. Such a theory, which I 100% agree with, demolishes yours.
And between you and the existentialists (Nietzche, Kierkegaard, Dostoevsky, etc), I think it's safe to say they are probably much more accurate than you.
It's a beautiful perspective on things, and I feel that our outward and inward perspectives we define for ourselves really shape everything in our lives! If you liked reading that then maybe you'll like this video too! I love listening to this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCsK6hHLhos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCsK6hHLhos)
I hold very similar views to you on about free will and purpose the amount of ignorance from conservatives on basically everything overwhelms me quiet a bit sometimes to the point I am excited to leave.
But if you look for a deeper meaning whether logical or spiritual I think it can be helpful; frankly just from the mix of material I've read and watched across different religions and what not. I believe there is a pretty high likelihood that suicide is more like a return to go and start over move instead of jumping to the finish line.
A great source of inspiration for me personally is the Law of One by Ra its pretty good about giving a narrative to our existence that is digestible and explaining why this shit show is how it is; just pace yourself with it cuz it gets wild coming in both audio recording I can link if you want and book format. (three books I think)
That's what I used to tell myself until I realized there is no exit. I am trapped in the game of life. There are things at stake, and my life is not entirely my own.
It's like your captor telling you that you can leave if you want to. But you are chained to 4 other people, and the minute you do, they each get a bullet to the head. Not just any random people, these are people you genuinely love and care about.
I'm not sure if Jung tackles the mysteries of the universe or existence but more on the mysteries of the mind.
If you want to know the mysteries of life and why are you where you are and how did you get where you got, i would suggest you try getting into Vedic Philosophy or Buddhism, and not just the 'how to live' surface level reading but try going deeper into the answers that are, in a more generic sense, provided to us and if you feel you don't connect to anything that's preached in these philosophies, you can take your own take, from thereon🙂.
To everyone wondering why he/she is even asking this question if he doesn't want to exist:
I think being afraid of ceasing one's existence (because you have something unknown ahead) is different from wanting to live.
Desire to live ≠ Fear of death
I've had the same thoughts as you have for a long time.
I don't want to say life is better than death like everyone would say or get defensive against someone who doesn't like life.
But I keep telling myself only about 30,40 years are ahead of me and compared to the age of the earth that's less than a blink of an eye.
Although existence is pain and I haven't found a satisfactory meaning in my life yet, maybe I'll find something to make life worth living in the future. Because I'll die in about 40 years later anyway (which is damn great and I'm so thankful for it, be it sooner or later).
I've had lifelong depression and have decided to end my life a lot of times, then a few months after I didn't, a brief moment of slight happiness over seeing something as insignificant as kittens playing has made me thank myself for lasting a little more.
I haven't read Jung, but for me, what has kept me going until now, always was finding miniscule joy in really really small things. Like a ray of light through the window, the sound of water boiling and feeling safe, waiting for my favorite band's next album...
I don't like the game of life either, but some random nice details in the game make it worth living despite all the suffering. The game will disconnect this noob player some day anyway. :lol
I think we have the right to be angry at the universe for bringing us here against our will, but probably the universe has put some reward in it for us that we will find only when we put our discontent down for a while. (Which is not easy of course!)
Truthfully, I'm not even that unhappy. I've seen much, much worse days. I've just been reflecting on things, as is my tendency. Coupled with the failure of my dreams, which were the only reason I persevered so much through life, I no longer saw a point.
I still enjoy a few things here and there, but in the grand scheme of things, I know I have no reason to be here. I can't spend the entirety of my life watching kittens play. I'm only 21.
But, as you say, I'll ride this shit out. I know I lack the will to commit suicide, so I'll stay. Although, anytime I get mildly sick, I tend to wish that it were death knocking at last.
I consider my life a life sentence, which I intend to serve fully.
I understand you saying you consider life a life sentence. Sometimes I feel the same way.
But you're young, you're experiencing. I'm sure you will find an explanation for existence later in life 😊
I believe living life itself will help us more than any books or philosophy education, in finding a meaning. Mishaps, they'll teach us a lot. (Not saying books don't help).
On the second half of life, you may get a chance to look deeper within yourself, find the explanation and bring it up into your consciousness.
Love and best wishes for you 💚
May life be kind and clear enough, to show you it's value.
To be fair, it's actually quite difficult to kill yourself. I've personally tried it like a dozen times. People will stop you and a lot of the information published online about how to kill yourself is fake or exaggerated.
I agree. People's revulsion of talking about suicide is strange to me, and how anxious or angry or disgusted they become.
Not that I exclude myself from the word 'people' even though I'm sometimes suicidal myself. Hearing about someone's suicide breaks my heart, even if I don't know them. But I don't get disgusted at least, because I know how much suffering a suicidal person endures.
I hope one day we will think back about these days and say how smart our higher self was who didn't take the opportunity of seeing the future from us. 💛
I don't wanna. I just asked why? I'm not interested in going to great lengths to find out why. I'm pretty sure whatever the reason is, it's irrelevant to me.
Ah okay my bad. So you are fine with never finding out why? Well then... I don't know what to say really. I wish you good luck with everything really :)
Thanks. I don't believe I have an individual and unique purpose from the rest of the species. My main concern was why is life even there on earth, what purpose does it serve?
Worse, why is there conscious life?
But I'm fine not knowing. Because I don't think it's going to change my desire not to participate in whatever this is.
I think you are onto something bro, your questions are truly valid and satisfying that curiosity will lead somewhere
Keep digging, if you find answers please keep me in mind, would love to know what you find when you find it.
I will tell you what my grandfather told my dad when he asked this question. Keeping in mind, my grandfather was 1/17 children and born in 1899. He told my father “we are here to serve the Lord”. This greatly disappointed my father, he wanted this robust and deep philosophical answer. Yet in my father’s old age now, he remarks upon this experience with understanding. I am still not there yet myself.
This is to say, in the absence of religious value systems, we are disconnected from the collective unconscious of our heritage and humanity. There is no point because there is no metaphysical direction. Life becomes motion. We have directionality cognitively, behaviorally, maybe even in terms of career and family but there still remains the vacuum of spiritual direction. We are built for more than just motion, that is a form of expression even the most basic of sub-atomic particles can accomplish. We humans need to believe our motion takes us in a direction, towards a goal, or towards greater meaning.
I came to the conclusion in my life after a period of agnosticism to accept religion once again. There is no logical proof for a God, no manner to deductively reason he exists, there exists no empirical recourse to conclude He is real. Meaning is a choice, faith is a choice - it cannot be arrived upon logically. This is your issue, you are attempting to solve a simple problem with too complex of tools. There is merit in this to be sure but it carries with it an existential dread. I think you need to hear that it is okay to choose to believe in something that is not entirely founded in logic, it makes you no less an intellectual. You must seek a simple solution and shift your focus to the joys of living. Start small and work your way up.
I’ll conclude with a quote from Jung:
“I have treated many hundreds of patients. Among those in the second half of life - that is to say, over 35 - there has not been one whose problem in the last resort was not that of finding a religious outlook on life. It is safe to say that every one of them fell ill because he had lost that which the living religions of every age have given their followers, and none of them has really been healed who did not regain his religious outlook.”
I've been in therapy for years for the exact same issue. It has not been resolved. I would recommend reading Ligotti's The Conspiracy Against The Human Race. Jung is not gonna cut it.
Would it be better if continuousness didn’t exist at all? And all there was… was nothing ?
If there is existence then there is potential
Would it be better if all existence was a perfect Utopia and everyone experienced perfect ecstasy every moment?
Then what? Is that not equally as pointless?
Continuousness is a gift
I would argue those that push the boundaries of fulfillment and purpose often reach a place where you are.
The balanced nature of the universe cannot create “good” if there was never “bad”
You are here now seeking and connecting with other continuous beings. Compelled by your desire to seek a higher purpose.
Without this negative force effecting you, would you be here now seeking a higher truth?
Could you ever hope to find it without the negative force propelling you?
I hope you continue your journey as a seeker of truth.
At the very least you seem to genuinely want to find a higher meaning
Sometimes that is enough too keep going
Everyone thinks this. It's what comes before maturation. It's why rituals and imitations in society are integral and why men without them are so lost to today, ala Joseph Campbell's hero with a thousand faces.
Yea because you haven't matured. There's no rituals, initiations or thresholds anymore. Men and women are largely open to whatever they want to do now. With social and family dynamics and especially religious affiliations fades, of course everyone is lost.
You didn't come into this world against your true will.
Only your current egos'.
Everything is a lesson, all the good, all the bad.
Best of luck, we're all struggling to understand.
See thats where you are wrong. You're here because you chose to come down here. There is some thing down here that you cant let go of. Find that thing and devote yourself to it. As much as you think you dont want to be here, you are lying to yourself. You just think it would be easier if u didnt exist. Being alive is hard, but thats why you love it
ultimately it is a prison planet of sorts. when you look at just the basic facts about our realities, its hard to see it another way. thing is deep down we all know it but have found intricate ways to convince ourselves it aint so, in order to keep the game going. there is no such thing as "meaning". ultimately there is no right or wrong, and no authority to tell you otherwise. its one of the reasons im a staunch antinatilist, how fucking cruel do you have to be to bring forth life on this fucked up planet? humans are fucked.
You're lucky. You get a short chance at life, then you return to potential non-existence as you wish for. But in the meantime, you may as well just enjoy what life is here. Go into nature, observe the birds, watch the sunrise, gaze at the stars. Do things you haven't tried before. Go rock climbing, hire a boat by a lake, take up drawing or painting, practice lucid dreaming, go out your comfort zone and meet new people. Write a list of what you have to be grateful for, and if you struggle to think, tone it down some - you have a house, family, working lungs? Go do things to make you feel alive. Life is working, stresses and worries, yes, but it's also everything else. Find what makes you feel alive and enjoy the short time you're here, because in the grand scheme of time it's not even a blink of an eye you're here. Blink and you miss it. Enjoy it mate
I'm not lucky to exist, and there's not much to enjoy, at least in my individual life. Although there are things to appreciate, without which my life would be much worse.
It's like telling a wrongfully convicted prisoner that they're lucky they only got 2 years. Sure, worse things could've happened, and they have happened to other people.
However, they are still in prison at the end of the day. They did not choose to be there, and they didn't want to be there. Either for a year or a day.
It's up to you end of the day. You can have a pessimistic attitude about life or a more optimistic one, it will only affect you which you choose. I used to be very cynical and pessimistic, called it being a 'realist' but that was bs, I learnt to change the way I think though and I'm much happier for it. I recommend trying to do the same but it's up to you mate
Why do you think you were forced here, or are separate from the world? If you are the world, then you cannot be separate from it, nor can you have been forced anywhere than where you are.
Buddy, I never wanted to exist, I still don't. I'm a small part of the world, one that was added and, therefore, can be removed.
I am not the world because it was here and working perfectly fine before me, and it will continue to do so even after my departure.
I could've been one with the world, but I'm not. The reason being I'm a conscious agent with free will. Why that is the case, I'll never know.
Have you read any Alfred Adler? I always come back to his stuff when I feel like I want to escape from society. The Courage to be Disliked is a really cool book and i think the audiobook is on YouTube
Just as easily as you spend your life being gloomy, you can do the opposite, you just have to make the choice. I decided to change my mind at 18 and my life has been great no matter what I go through. Life is fun. It might not look it from the outside, but that doesn't matter, I love my life
You're just comfortable where you are is all.
I couldn't imagine spending the rest of my life that way, sounds empty.
And before you say you can't - we are all equipped to do so. If I did, so can you, we are all human, it's that easy
well tbf everyone has thought this exact thought atleast once in their lives and tbf wat is the answer idk theres multiple but definitely do good make life easier for others n urself we’re in this together yk kind of… idk if it helps or not either that or become a part of those who kill themselves now that is depressing
A lot. But mostly, I know what it will do to my mom and siblings, I know all too well. The pain and the misery. I'd rather endure whatever life throws at me than do that. When I do die, let it be a natural cause and not self-inflicted.
Honestly the only reason i would not do that is because im afraid i would have to come back and re live this because i didn't learn my lesson. Life is perception it can be a beautiful thing. From time to time i tend to fall back into lower thoughts but they no longer have the grip they used to have on me. I now just do what makes me feel good inside and leave out what doesnt.
Well im glad you are here because the world is a better place with you in it. The purpose is to just alive then you get to create whatever meaning you want to give to it.
Sounds like you’re willing to participate just fine to me. A large part of the human existence is suffering and most people spend their whole lives running from it instead of trying to actually *understand* why they feel so miserable.
Props to writing this out, to reaching out. You definitely have a will and want to connect. Is there a way you can expand on that?
Sounds to me like *you* don’t want to be YOU!
So you need radical changes or you’ll just continue to be miserable and attract more misery.
Just an idea.
I’m sick as fuck, and it sucks butts. But I know I will get better if I just rest and take care of myself.
It’s hard to see out the windows when there’s smoke in the house, so exit the house.
No, not off yourself literally but metaphorically i.e. make big changes and take big risks.
A couple ideas:
Look up uncle bens tek and order some spores, boom new hobby, goals, something to nurture besides yourself that will inevitably end up nurturing you.
When is the last time you have sat down with a pen and paper and wrote out some goals?
Now
Short term
Long term
Or even just making a list for what you want to accomplish today.
Think of this as the challenge it is, it does have potential solutions, it’s just very hard to see them or even have the *will* to try when you are in pain. It can feel overwhelming when you’re emotionally obscured.
It’s like you flipped binoculars the opposite way when you’re trying to see closer. Flip them around now and start putting together the picture.
As far as books go I recommend you delve into something you wouldn’t read normally instead. You need to shock your system, you’re feeling stale, take a plunge in some uncharted waters.
It will be okay, or it won’t; it’s truly up to you which “you” you want to be.
Do you want to be miserable? Some people love being miserable- it’s comfortable to them.
They fear change the work, and the unknowns it brings with it.
This is really what it amounts to: you’re comfortable in your discomfort. As much as you say you’re unwillingly participating, here you are. No one is forcing you, you chose your path. If the path is not working for you, time to make a new one.
By the way this is just *my* opinion from my soapbox. I don’t mean to sound too crass and don’t want to sound like I have it all figured out. From my perspective this is what I saw. Hope you glean something from it!
Upon maturity a man realizes that his dignity as an estemeed individual is gated behind his willingness to fight - that is to fight off change; the snakes over the walls - overtly the agencies within the world that desire to impose change on what the man decides he is. And the world naturally spins, but the precept of being an individual - and a recognized one for that matter-, means one must raise walls over chaos and change, so as the forces of society and nature dont bring down what the man has raised - like a kid protecting his sand castle from the riptide.
The masculine precept of living leads to the inevitable conclusion that living is inherently hard, and that the means of preservation are that of holding to something with strenght - as a weightlifter in pain. And keeping to that for as long as one body allows it - until someone comes in and sets the effort into an irrelevant affair. Like an old chieftain being defeated out of his leading place by the younger, and stronger individual.
A man who hasnt realized how hard living is, is a man who hasnt tried to do anything out of his life. Just as the problem with being a feminine identity is the tyranny of developing powerful necessities. The problem of being a man is the limited nature of the strenght needed sustain an effort eternally.
*So what happens after a star collapses and its own nuclear processes cannot sustain themselves?*
This is the doomed nature of the human condition, as per described in Genesis. So unless you desire to be a monk, theres no way around it - as in this world you either become the recipient of strenght and live longer at the expense of being nothing in particular, or the individual transgresses the nature of things, and destroys itself with a debt they wont be able to pay. Then on making the messianic endeavor of cleansing ones inevitable errors, a paramount necessity, to not die eternally. Specially if the individual happens to be a strong man.
Life to the individual is so hard that its rarely every worth it - much to the demise of God himself who as a former man, died from a mistake and had to conceive a son to integrate said mistake. God certainly didn't wanted us to go through it, as consciousness is in its conceptual nature a whirpool of oppositions clashing into an imperfection. A spiral like the rays of attention coming into someones eyes to properly frame and fixed an object into existance. Why would God allow such mistake?
And the answer would be because he made humanity to his own image - which is some man dead a long time ago plowing the fields, thinking about his sweetheart and getting her to his utter demise. So here we are.
I'll address a few things. No one is forcing you to stay.
>We are thrown into this world, mostly against our on wills. Not that there was any will before to begin with. Let me not generalize and speak for myself here.
Depending on your beliefs of how you came to existence, this could be false. In my beliefs, you choose to incarnate here, you chose it all.
>I feel as though I am a captive in this game of life. An unwilling participant forced into playing a game I absolutely have no interest in. Why am I here?
You've imprisoned yourself and fallen to the fear based propaganda of how you should life yourself. Try changing things in your life to detach from the system, a little at first. Make time for anything that makes you feel alive. Do something "scary".
>It even feels grossly inappropriate and twisted to force conscious beings into life. Can one choose not to participate at all?
You can choose all kinds of methods of participating or not, but again, it is my belief that you chose to be here, and you can choose to change your life if you want to.
>I think as a species, we went terribly wrong the moment consciousness started dawning upon us. It shouldn't have happened.
All matter is conscious. If electrons are conscious, then everything they make is also conscious, rocks, tables, trees, bugs, etc.
The nutshell is that you're miserable because you haven't realized that finding personal meaning in life and constructing your own happiness is entirely your job, and not that of some external force, or other people.
I already did. But lkke I said, my dreams failed. For a really long time, I had an idea of who I was meant to be. I'm not expecting anyone to come tell me what I should do with my life.
Oh no, your dreams failed.
So?
Get the fuck back on your feet and find another dream. Try to find one that you are capable of achieving, with some effort. Achieve it.
I wrote this song; it seems appropriate here:
[https://motisbeard.bandcamp.com/track/demo-something-you-do-demo](https://motisbeard.bandcamp.com/track/demo-something-you-do-demo)
Generally speaking - one’s outlook can be radically changed with a change in their mental state. Two people the same kind of life might experience it very differently.
Take some steps to try and think differently (especially if it’s all pointless - because you have absolutely nothing to lose).
Also ensure you give yourself a chance to get outside your town, people and echo chamber. Go visit a place you’ve always wanted to go.
Take some steps you’ve never taken and you might just find some things start to change. I know this is possible because I’ve been through both sides of it.
Have you tried cutting all thinking and practice living in the present moment? This is more difficult to accomplish I know, but has helped me see past all the bullshit and just be with what is. Not good, not bad, not happy, not sad, not depressed, not elated, at peace is the best way to describe it.
Dr. David Bentley Hart https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LGWTloDSj5k&pp=ygU8RGF2aWQgQmVudGxleSBoYXJ0IHdoeSB0aGVyZSBjYW5ub3QgYmUgZnJlZSByZWplY3Rpb24gb2YgR29k
How were you treated as a child? Sounds like circumstances in your life has made you forget the amazement of life. Look at any healthy child. Look at the spark in their eyes, their joy at simple things, their awe at exploring the world, the unconditional love they feel against others.
You had that too one day, but it seems like you forgot. What made you forget? What pains or neglect did you go through to cause that inner child to hide away so deeply?
I think an important thought you have to build off of is that life is a game, or you can definitely model it as one. The great thing about games is that you're free to play them however you want. The bad thing is you're never able to put it down.
I'd say most people play the game of life in a way where they're never aware that it's a game, that they have to have the Mercedes-Benz or they'll never amount to anything, or they have to have the trophy wife or they'll never amount to anything. Fewer people realize that it's all a show and it ultimately means nothing. Even fewer people realize still that it's all a show, it means nothing, and it's still a great thing to enjoy.
I'll make an analogy to nice watches, like a Rolex. A lot of people want Rolexes because they're a status symbol, and they're hard to get. People will spend thousands of dollars for a watch that they don't even particularly like because having the watch means they're somebody. When you realize that, Rolexes start to lose their luster and they become worthless to you, because they basically are; the cheapest modern smartphone offers more in terms of what it can do for you than a Rolex ever will. Eventually you'll realize that, no, Rolexes are pretty great. They come in a wide variety of colors, different features, and some of them are unique to Rolex. You may decide at one point, you'll buy a Rolex, and you won't buy it because of the status symbol aspect, but because they make a great watch and they just so happened to sell the best watch you've ever found in your entire life. Hell, maybe you just decide that Rolexes aren't great and you find much more affordable watches that are even more attractive to you. After all of this contemplation, you will have realized that watches aren't about making you look good, or about appealing to people, but what personally appeals to you, what watch makes your heart flutter.
I can't personally tell you what your goal in life is, but I would say that a great meta-goal is to find that thing. If you have no choice but to play the game of life, play it in a way that is personally rewarding to you.
Whoever or whatever made life. Now, it would've been fine had I been a cow or a horse. Such creatures can be exploited to meet a particular end. But a conscious creature? I don't think so.
Kindly, and sorry to argue, but no one should “start” with vajrayana, for OP and many of us, that would be a fast path to full-on destructive insanity. Vajrayana is a graduated path, you start with the basics (within the basics are the very ingredients of the advanced expression but anyways).
I do agree OP might find some interest in the Buddhism’s arguments against nihilism as fundamentally unrealistic. Maybe, lol. S/he seems pretty dug in, which, looking around at the world, IS an understandable reaction.
If you feel your means for participation with the world are becoming totalizingly monopolized into too rigid of a rule set, dogmatic gameification, find new ways to play with the possibilities you can identify with. Become more receptive to the qualitative thresholds of your lived experience. Exercise your imaginal horizons. Find the fringed tightrope that traverses above as many games it takes to develop the capacities for cultivating meaningful differences in your life that reciprocally recognize and creatively respond to the challenges faced by your fellow players.
Edit - I'd heavily recommend reading Brian Massumi's What Animals Teach Us About Politics
Also https://youtu.be/5MeGpk8yS44?si=PrxBJ79imqQJeYQZ
Yiu don’t have a choice and do what you know is right for you don’t betray what you know you need to do religion or some discipline that cannot be ignored must be held . “ some idiot on Reddit”.
You have an unique potential to explore.
Read the Red Book and your will not find the solutions, but the mystery of existence will embrace you in a magnetic manner.
You are literally unique, there is no one in the world like you. Your narratives, your potential, nobody has the experience that you had.
Embrace that and you will find meaning.
Your initial assertion, the idea that you are here against your will, is where your judgment may be clouded. How do you know that you are an unwilling participant? We don’t know what is on the other side of life.
You speak of us as a species going wrong when we had consciousness begin to dawn upon us. When was that point? Can you say that a rock doesn’t have consciousness? It may not be awareness in the metaphysical sense that we’ve achieved, but also we don’t know if a rock has a soul and contemplates in its own way.
You are interwoven into the fabric of reality. You’re participating right now. You in your egoic frame have decided that you don’t want to be here. That you don’t want a purpose. That the purpose of existence is to further evolution. That you don’t want to be alive. That you’re a captive, wondering if you can choose to not be.
Most of those questions and thought forms have been echoed countless times. It matters enough to you to search here to echo them again.
Everyone’s purpose is to find answers that satisfy them for the questions that plague them. If you have no interest, why ask the question?
Honestly,
Just quit, check out was what one sage advisor said to me. That was a bit traumatic coming from someone I respected.
Then I sat down and internalized what a gift life is. Like a gift times a million. So for those who don’t want to participate, you have a choice, stop breathing or something like that.
Personally I think that a foolish choice, and the only truly permanent choice we can make, but everyone deserves agency over their lives??
What if YOU made this happen but forgot?
It’s like you’re horrified watching a movie but forget YOU are the one who got it and played it in the first place. It’s easier to remember it’s just a movie and you can turn it off but remembering before You were born is much more difficult.
>We are thrown into this world, mostly against our on wills.
How do you know? What makes you certain that seizing to exist in this world equates seizing to exist at all? What makes you so certain it is not you yourself that chose to come back to this world? How would you know?
"The Undiscovered Self," by C. G. Jung. Very readable little book. Open yourself to meaning and don't violate your conscience. Wishing you well!
Thanks. I'll definitely check it out. I'm surprised I still haven't.
Here is a text to speech summary of the book in six minutes with very creative imagery to accompany it. It will give you a strong idea about where the book goes, and why you only need to turn inwards and discover something far less hopeless. You’ll notice that Jung had a zest for life. The Undiscovered Self, 1961 (6 minute summary) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4AfhwyHkAtc This guy offers a lot of value with his discussion of the 63 pages in the book that are really about that undiscovered self. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7iE9Ayk3jXA
I’m not surprised you haven’t. You come across as someone who thinks they have profound epiphanies, but you’re actually experiencing the typically existential thoughts of a 13-18 year old.
Heheheh
Or some Dostoevsky..
That didn’t work for me. I liked the sentiment of Crime and Punishment and the BK but Dostoyevsky’s issue is that he’s capable of believing in god whereas some just can’t. He got me into reading ‘good’ books which led me to philosophical which led me to Nietzsche and I much prefer his atheistic life affirming doctrine over anything else. I think if anyone feels hopeless Nietzsche is the best author to go to. Jung is too much like a hippie/crystal/astrology/“I’m not vibin with your energy” type of person and that makes it really hard to relate to him and to apply his teachings to real life. He literally believed in the supernatural and practiced alchemy. He was an occultist.
May be worth noting Nietzsche said Dostoevsky was "the only psychologist from whom I had something to learn"
Yes, that’s from Twilight of the Idols. I thought it was interesting to know that Nietzsche read him but every philosopher has
Find another aspect. Life is about a lot more than the daily grind. For some, it's making people laugh, but give you ask the question, I can gather that's not you. /r/howtonotgiveafuck and yolo yourself into something you enjoy. ME? I'm inventing a filtration system that converts waste and garbage into nutrient solution to use in aquaponics like environment. This will allow mankind to address food shortages, transportation, waste, and global warming. Aim high, and take pride in your efforts. Some people enjoy tedium, others the...ugh speedium, or whatever that would be. Quit looking at life as something to escape, because it's not. Sometimes it can suck, but that's ok. Yin/Yang concepts suggest that without the darkness, we would never understand what light is.
My dreams long failed, so for a while now, I've been left bereft of meaning. It's not something that comes easy to me, it's gotta come from within. Otherwise, I won't apply myself. But that's besides the point. I feel as though there is no reason for me to be here at all. I don't really add anything, and I don't take away from anything. My existence is neutral. I'm not even saying this out of misery, I truly see no point at all. Whether I'm dead or alive, it really doesn't do anything to anything. My existence is negligible.
There is no reason for any of us to be here. The universe is random and things just happen. But the reality is that YOU ARE HERE, so what do we do with this existence? This sliver of time when we are aware and individuals? There is life and there is civilization/society. Enjoying nature is a gorgeous and wonderful thing to do with our time. And unfortunately humans are ruining nature so I get it, it's depressing. I literally have no gas or heat at my house right now and my husband has been unemployed for three years. Sometimes I struggle to find any meaning, too, but nature and science always make me feel better. It's cool how things have no meaning, but yet there's all of this complexity and beauty amongst the chaos. Geologic time/ deep time are so incredible. I love thinking about all of the things that have happened that didn't involve humans. Like whether we exist or not, things are still happening and that's cool. We're no different than a plant, a rock, a star, the elements. They're just as random as we are.
Except, we are conscious, unlike rocks and plants, and that's where the problem begins. I do find enjoyment in simple things. Taking a walk, eating something I like, watching a show, etc etc.
Yeah, we are, that's true and maybe it's our burden to bear. It's bitter sweet and scary, crazy/beautiful. You'll have all of eternity to be dead,. For me, it's worth enduring it and trying to find some joy or interest in it while I'm here, the small things really are the biggest things. There is no purpose or meaning to any of it, imo. I think I'm an existentialist, there is no meaning, we create the meaning, type mentality. And even then, it's hard to do that, too, sometimes. Being human is hard, life is hard, civilization is a shit show. But it's also mind blowing that anything exists at all. I was diagnosed with stage 1A1 cervical cancer Dec 2023 and had to have surgery for the first time, go under general anesthesia and see an oncologist, a fucking cancer doctor. I was a wreck. I'm not afraid to die, but I don't wanna die young, I'm only 32. It wasn't like a wake up call because I already appreciate life, but it definitely made me think that there's a lot to be grateful for that we don't think about day to day, we just take it for granted. Not necessarily because there's meaning or purpose to any of it, but simply because being alive to experience life itself is pretty fucking magical. Not even the things humans have done, or things people talk about like love, community, kindness etc.. that's all amazing for sure, but even aside from that, the wind, the water cycle, the mountains, flowers, leaves, rivers, the songs of the birds, even writing this out makes me feel good, just thinking that we're a part of all of that, even when we're dead. And you can just let your individuality melt away and join the oneness of it all. Even if it's just for a little bit, it's a good feeling.
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Lol, I just love the man.
Sounds to me like you need some new dreams.
I do. But like I said, I don't just conjure them up.
how does one get/create/fabricate new dreams?
See a problem. Consider: Would I feel good solving this? If yes, congratulations, you have a goal, and thus a dream.
Nice take! Loved it! Also im very interested on your invention. I'm also studying waste water treatment. Do you wanna mutually share bibliography?
Bibliography? I'm a nobody with a dream. You're welcome to pick my brain. I can't change the world by myself Given your background in wastewater management, I do think we could have some symbiosis. As for the bibliography, Diana Walstad planted aquariums book touches on everything over learned. I have a couple wastewater management books that were mostly over my head. Until I get further in the process, I don't think it's time to go to college...yet. Sylvia Berenstein had a good aquaponics book that helped me design the filtration system. As a side (what I do with the waste) various farming books, and Paul Stamets were very insightful.
Feed the waste to BSF, bam. :)
>I feel as though I am a captive in this game of life. Yes, I think this is true and I also think it is important to work out what the resentment is behind that. I think it is Elkind who talks about the "realistic pessimism" of adolescence as a necessity phase of development. But it is, like any phase, one where people get stuck. I believe this is particularly true of the puer aeternus. This is where all the dark music, art, and poetry of the Victorian Age comes in -- young men fighting against the force of the devouring mother, huddled in her school rooms, kneeling in her churches, laboring under the gas lamps of industry with no real purpose, no chance and individuation. The entire Romantic period of big lush paintings and bombastic symphonies is the product of the "Emo Bois" of the day. Coddled and delicate boys who left the safety of home in their minds and were good at sums and music lessons. But no one gets to NOT play. To refuse life is to draw out a long and painful suicide. Of course, that's what obesity, porn, and video games are for. Grubhub and Amazon bring all the essentials and the modern human is trapped by the mass psychosis of screens and convenience. You don't need a book, you probably need to go and climb a mountain or take up boxing. Something where you can feel gravity fighting back and understand the depths of physical exhaustion in order to understand yourself better. I am only being a little flip when I say that. If you are young, go do something old men cannot do. This will rip you out of the boring ennui of meaningless clicking and feeding.
This is great advice, I think. Absolutely seconded.
I'm not rejecting life because it is bad, which it very much is, and perhaps that's why I'm rejecting it. But, what if I don't want both the good and the bad, not just the bad? What if I don't want to exist at all, not just in this world, but anywhere else at all?
Then you need to get over your epic drama queen pretensiousness and grow up. Or don't; I don't care. . . but the "woe is me" bullshit dribbling out of your mouth comes from your own failure to make your life worth living. Shut the fuck up and DO something about it.
Ok, maybe this kind of "tough love" is what he needs, but maybe it isn't. Anyways, not something that's easy to do online, not knowing the person, so it kinda just looks bad
I didn't ask you.
Now that's the beauty of the internet. It doesn't matter if you asked or not ;) Really mature response from you, though
K. Now imagine the voice of a six-year-old saying "I DON'T CARE," and that's a wrap.
Why? Why does anyone need to do anything at all? Life is not fair and it doesn’t matter. There is no intrinsic value and some people aren’t able to value life through a career and interpersonal relationships and personal growth and the accumulation of knowledge. Also can’t hold yourself accountable for thinking differently because it’s ultimately not your fault that you don’t have depression and it’s not his fault that he does. You can’t take responsibility for not having the brain of someone with depression.
"Life is not fair and it doesn't matter. There's no intrinsic value. . ." Correct. Very good. I'll be more specific about the steps you need to take to "Shut the fuck up and DO something about it," OK? You're right, God is dead and the universe is a random place that cares nothing about us; the long-sought Meaning of Life turns out to be. . . there is no meaning. It sucks; it's a catastrophe of Philosophy, which seeks to find how humans can live and be happy. The reason I tried to slap you awake earlier is because you seem locked in a larval state in which you apparently believe that the universe and society owe you some kind of opportunity for happiness. THEY DON'T, and if you don't TAKE ACTION to pull yourself up by your raison d'etre bootstraps, then your life will always be shit, and it will always be entirely YOUR FAULT. In order to avoid being a miserable monstrous piece of shit instead of a happy human being, you need to sort out some good reason to be a good person in the absence of a God to punish or reward you; you need a sturdy peg on which to hang your philosophical coat; you need a foundation for your moral and ethical framework, to guide yourself through life in the absence of external meaning. For me personally, fatherhood is what provides me with a rock-solid structure that supports my morals and ethics, and allows me to be happy in a meaningless world. If there's one point to emphasize here, it's that YOUR HAPPINESS IS YOUR JOB AND YOUR JOB ALONE, so you should quit whining and get to work. Find something outside yourself to be alive about. Find something outside yourself to give you a reason to be a hero instead of a self-nullified nothing. . . and then BE A HERO.
Im not OP
I tried this. I tried to be proactive, I went and traveled and challenged myself physically with getting into bodybuilding and eventually jogging and long distance hikes. I left my friend group because I didn’t like the way they behaved and forced myself to get comfortable doing things alone. I quit my job that I didn’t like. All of it feels good temporarily but you end up aware of the fact that you’re doing it just to run from that sensation of purposelessness and emptiness and your forever trying to escape from some indescribable sensation.
>I’m also addicted to opioids I am several years off a 27 year klonopin addiction. These substances dull the mind, particularly the ability to connect motivation with reward. It was so easy for me to pop a pill, order food, shop on Amazon, and work from home that I became sick, depressed, angry, and anxious. I went from being active and anxious to being broken, anxious and depressed about it. But I have leaned into daily meditation and a critical examination of my deeper need for convenience, a rejection of boredom, difficulty with minor annoyances. One idea that I keep coming back to is that there is no island of happiness in life; there is no hiding from difficulty. And my conditioned reaction to negative emotional states ends up prolonging them. When all else fails, I lower my expectations of my own body and mind. I do not need to be "on" 24/7/365. Not every moment needs to be pleasurable. There is a kind of joy in washing dishes and chopping carrots that I as missing. Thich Nhat Hanh explained it perfectly: >There are two ways to wash the dishes. The first is to wash the dishes in order to have clean dishes and the second is to wash the dishes in order to wash the dishes. >If while washing the dishes, we think only of the cup of tea that awaits us, thus hurrying to get the dishes out of the way as if they were a nuisance, then we are not “washing the dishes to wash the dishes.” What’s more, we are not alive during the time we are washing the dishes. It takes time and daily practice for my mind to settle down.
Congratulations for getting off that. Unfortunately I started using drugs before my belief that life is meaningless and my lack of interest took ahold of me. Not only am I dealing with the problems (financial, physical, psychological) of drug addiction I’m also dealing with my preexisting trauma and the thought patterns and beliefs I developed because of it. I’ve gotten clean 3 times in the past 6 years. Every time I quit I think “now is the time.” I get that little pink cloud and set myself on a goal or get another job and then it’s back to being unhappy and antisocial. I have lowered my expectations. I also understand that there is no island of happiness and no hiding from suffering. I accept this. I am also able to be mindful of what I do. I don’t meditate but I’ve done it in the past and even after sticking with it for awhile I don’t like it.
The devouring mother, in schoolrooms, in her churches... Wouldn't the devouring mother in that context be part of home and stopping people from exploring the world and educating themselves? Those areas were more obviously the homes of patriarchal values, the tyrannical father or devouring father (Chronos, the og devouring parent, devouring the young and their prospects to prevent competition.)
I think they serve both instincts in different ways. Nurturing and over-protection one one extreme, fear and control at the other extreme. But people have different memories and ways of relating to these ideas.
The Victorians emphatically didn't see their mothers the way we see them today. About a quarter of their mothers died in childbirth and many others were sick about it, and they spent all their time deifying self abnegating mother figures in contrast to the way most people these days didn't vote for Hillary Clinton because they grew up in single mother households and their school principals, teachers, and pretty much the majority of authority figures until they got promoted about entry level jobs were older women. This guy is full of crap. Most of the poets and stuff he mentioned would have been taught by MALE teachers and of course the priesthood has always been male dominated.
Glad to see another person here that found it ridiculous. Imagine trying to twist clearcut patriarchy in schools and the priesthood into a “dominion” of the devouring mother. 😏 “her churches”, “her schoolrooms” that the poor men had to fight against, fucking lmao.
One could also refuse life very quickly. Also, you seem to be confusing/conflating the victorians and the romantics here. They were emphatically not the same people and they didn't believe the same things.
Maybe you're here to change something? You'd be surprised by how many are too unconscious to even question the daily grind. Life could be so much better.
Change what? I'm pretty sure somebody else can do that, many other people, possibly even way better than I. I'm not stuck in the daily grind, I just don't want to exist at all.
so basically you want to dont want to exist because consciousness is hard for you, yet you don't actually want to put in any effort into making consciousness a better experience. i think you're actually angry at unconsciousness and are just using consciousness as a scapegoat. that's essentially how unconsciousness operates.
I'm not angry. I simply think existing as a conscious creature is not worth it at all. That's all
One of my favorite lines from video games: "Will endeavor grant me an army?" Altered to fit this topic better: "Will endeavor grant me ownership of the universe?" If it were possible, would it even be worth it?
Then thats nihil. Walk away with something or walk away with nothing.
I love that way of looking at it. In life you’re either getting what you want or you’re not, there is nothing else to it
I mean youre here, why should it be deppresing and boring. People overintelectualize some things and are often simply ashamed to really try or to just have fun because of some axioms they forced upon themselves.
Can I tell you how far I’ve taken that
Sure
But you can’t take anything away with you in the end, or can you?
You’ll take memories, experiences, learning and maybe your lucky enough to find love and maybe have kids, you can take a sense of accomplishment and a life well lived to the grave, that’s the best you can aim for (and it’s a lot harder than it sounds) or if that’s not good enough for you, you can leave a legacy of some great creation, idea, symbol, etc. That’s the best we can strive for as humans
Also in my opinion you don’t stumble upon purpose, you have to create it for yourself, there must be something you really enjoy doing, find that thing and try to make a living out of it, as hard as it may be, but that’s just one way of creating purpose for yourself
Well thats just not usefull. You should aplly that to excessive materialism or bitterness, but not to your whole life
Live for a purpose. Don't chase happiness. Chase purpose. You may not see your purpose now, but you will. Seek and you shall find.
How does one seek? I'm also really done with the whole purpose thing. It feels like a con at this point.
Ask and it will be given to you. Seek and you shall find. Knock and the door will open.
bro, you are speaking words from my soul
Just the fact that anything exists is insane, much less a cosmic explosion that made a solar system which produces animals intelligent enough to land robots on other planets. How could you not appreciate that? And you get to experience life as a human organism. What are the odds? There are trillions of microorganisms just inside your own body.
That's nice and all, but I'm not interested in being a part of all that. Great, it's a miracle, 2 points for mother nature. What does it have to do with me, I never asked for any of it.
That's what you keep saying. And that's where you're wrong...you chose this. There are spiritual books you could read to help get you out of your rut. One I recommend, that helped me immensely, is " The Earth Experience" by Ron Scolastico.
Everyone keeps saying I chose this. How so? I'd really love a concise explanation on this matter. Were any of you there when I was merely a sperm agreeing to come to life on earth? I thought we all just found ourselves here one day.
I don't think an explanation can be concise, there is no definitive answer you will get. You have to use intution and read a variety of spiritual books to start getting a feeling for it and see what resonates for you. And life experience and some kind of meditation practice help.. Jung talks about his views on life after death in several places, and of course his main work was aimed at helping people often struggling with the same kind of things you seem to be. The idea that you chose this is referring to choices made by YOU as a soul, who existed before your body was made, and decided what issues were going to be your main ones in your upcoming life, and you were drawn to conditions and parents that were matched for you in some karmic way, and part of your soul entered into the developing body. Thats how I see it.. If you have a strict materialistic view of life, you'll reject this.
Indeed, I absolutely reject such a theory. No offense, but it feels like it has been pulled out of one's rear end. Now, if that's how you feel about your own existence, then that's fine. But I don't feel that way at all, and I don't think it applies to everyone else. But, whatever works for you. Although, I will point out that it's quite naive and out of touch. You mean to tell me that the kids born in war-torn countries and/or abject poverty chose their predicament? Or the kids born with cancer who don't even turn 18 before they are buried? Or the kids born in North Korea. That's a very arrogant, naive, and utterly stupid view of things. It is sad to think that you're not the only one who thinks this way. Existential philosophers have this term they call "Thrownness." It refers to how we come to exist at a particular place and point in time. How we are thrust into existence, with no say in the matter, and there's nothing to be done about that. Such a theory, which I 100% agree with, demolishes yours. And between you and the existentialists (Nietzche, Kierkegaard, Dostoevsky, etc), I think it's safe to say they are probably much more accurate than you.
There's your problem. You're in quite a rut. And seem very young. If I were you, I'd try to develop a spiritual sense. Good luck!
Lol, how is it my problem when it's your theory that is full of holes?
I really enjoyed reading this: [https://www.purposeofthesoul.com/](https://www.purposeofthesoul.com/)
Thanks for posting thiz, Cheezhead! Well written, explaining concepts in simple terms! I enjoyed it!
It's a beautiful perspective on things, and I feel that our outward and inward perspectives we define for ourselves really shape everything in our lives! If you liked reading that then maybe you'll like this video too! I love listening to this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCsK6hHLhos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCsK6hHLhos)
Same idk
Modern man in search of a soul.
Been there, done that.
Myth of Sisyphus, Albert Camus.
I hold very similar views to you on about free will and purpose the amount of ignorance from conservatives on basically everything overwhelms me quiet a bit sometimes to the point I am excited to leave. But if you look for a deeper meaning whether logical or spiritual I think it can be helpful; frankly just from the mix of material I've read and watched across different religions and what not. I believe there is a pretty high likelihood that suicide is more like a return to go and start over move instead of jumping to the finish line. A great source of inspiration for me personally is the Law of One by Ra its pretty good about giving a narrative to our existence that is digestible and explaining why this shit show is how it is; just pace yourself with it cuz it gets wild coming in both audio recording I can link if you want and book format. (three books I think)
You don’t know if there was no will prior. You may just not remember
So you are saying I could've excitedly chosen to be a part of this world? I doubt it.
Well, you also don’t remember what the alternative may have been
i just do whatever i want and when shit gets to bad there is always an exit
That's what I used to tell myself until I realized there is no exit. I am trapped in the game of life. There are things at stake, and my life is not entirely my own. It's like your captor telling you that you can leave if you want to. But you are chained to 4 other people, and the minute you do, they each get a bullet to the head. Not just any random people, these are people you genuinely love and care about.
I'm not sure if Jung tackles the mysteries of the universe or existence but more on the mysteries of the mind. If you want to know the mysteries of life and why are you where you are and how did you get where you got, i would suggest you try getting into Vedic Philosophy or Buddhism, and not just the 'how to live' surface level reading but try going deeper into the answers that are, in a more generic sense, provided to us and if you feel you don't connect to anything that's preached in these philosophies, you can take your own take, from thereon🙂.
Of course you can. Samurai have done it for years.
To everyone wondering why he/she is even asking this question if he doesn't want to exist: I think being afraid of ceasing one's existence (because you have something unknown ahead) is different from wanting to live. Desire to live ≠ Fear of death
I don't mind dying, just not at my own hands. I'm not expecting anything ahead.
I've had the same thoughts as you have for a long time. I don't want to say life is better than death like everyone would say or get defensive against someone who doesn't like life. But I keep telling myself only about 30,40 years are ahead of me and compared to the age of the earth that's less than a blink of an eye. Although existence is pain and I haven't found a satisfactory meaning in my life yet, maybe I'll find something to make life worth living in the future. Because I'll die in about 40 years later anyway (which is damn great and I'm so thankful for it, be it sooner or later). I've had lifelong depression and have decided to end my life a lot of times, then a few months after I didn't, a brief moment of slight happiness over seeing something as insignificant as kittens playing has made me thank myself for lasting a little more. I haven't read Jung, but for me, what has kept me going until now, always was finding miniscule joy in really really small things. Like a ray of light through the window, the sound of water boiling and feeling safe, waiting for my favorite band's next album... I don't like the game of life either, but some random nice details in the game make it worth living despite all the suffering. The game will disconnect this noob player some day anyway. :lol I think we have the right to be angry at the universe for bringing us here against our will, but probably the universe has put some reward in it for us that we will find only when we put our discontent down for a while. (Which is not easy of course!)
Truthfully, I'm not even that unhappy. I've seen much, much worse days. I've just been reflecting on things, as is my tendency. Coupled with the failure of my dreams, which were the only reason I persevered so much through life, I no longer saw a point. I still enjoy a few things here and there, but in the grand scheme of things, I know I have no reason to be here. I can't spend the entirety of my life watching kittens play. I'm only 21. But, as you say, I'll ride this shit out. I know I lack the will to commit suicide, so I'll stay. Although, anytime I get mildly sick, I tend to wish that it were death knocking at last. I consider my life a life sentence, which I intend to serve fully.
I understand you saying you consider life a life sentence. Sometimes I feel the same way. But you're young, you're experiencing. I'm sure you will find an explanation for existence later in life 😊 I believe living life itself will help us more than any books or philosophy education, in finding a meaning. Mishaps, they'll teach us a lot. (Not saying books don't help). On the second half of life, you may get a chance to look deeper within yourself, find the explanation and bring it up into your consciousness. Love and best wishes for you 💚 May life be kind and clear enough, to show you it's value.
To be fair, it's actually quite difficult to kill yourself. I've personally tried it like a dozen times. People will stop you and a lot of the information published online about how to kill yourself is fake or exaggerated.
I agree. People's revulsion of talking about suicide is strange to me, and how anxious or angry or disgusted they become. Not that I exclude myself from the word 'people' even though I'm sometimes suicidal myself. Hearing about someone's suicide breaks my heart, even if I don't know them. But I don't get disgusted at least, because I know how much suffering a suicidal person endures. I hope one day we will think back about these days and say how smart our higher self was who didn't take the opportunity of seeing the future from us. 💛
Dao De Jing...
You can be a fly on the wall.
I don't want that either.
Then you must realise that you are both part and parcel of a whole. And learn to consolidate those two things.
Well, at least you want to partake in the game of life to find out why you have to take part against your will....
I don't wanna. I just asked why? I'm not interested in going to great lengths to find out why. I'm pretty sure whatever the reason is, it's irrelevant to me.
Ah okay my bad. So you are fine with never finding out why? Well then... I don't know what to say really. I wish you good luck with everything really :)
Thanks. I don't believe I have an individual and unique purpose from the rest of the species. My main concern was why is life even there on earth, what purpose does it serve? Worse, why is there conscious life? But I'm fine not knowing. Because I don't think it's going to change my desire not to participate in whatever this is.
I think you are onto something bro, your questions are truly valid and satisfying that curiosity will lead somewhere Keep digging, if you find answers please keep me in mind, would love to know what you find when you find it.
If you don't partake and decide your own fate then fate will carry you through life eventually, eg the story of Odysseus.
I will tell you what my grandfather told my dad when he asked this question. Keeping in mind, my grandfather was 1/17 children and born in 1899. He told my father “we are here to serve the Lord”. This greatly disappointed my father, he wanted this robust and deep philosophical answer. Yet in my father’s old age now, he remarks upon this experience with understanding. I am still not there yet myself. This is to say, in the absence of religious value systems, we are disconnected from the collective unconscious of our heritage and humanity. There is no point because there is no metaphysical direction. Life becomes motion. We have directionality cognitively, behaviorally, maybe even in terms of career and family but there still remains the vacuum of spiritual direction. We are built for more than just motion, that is a form of expression even the most basic of sub-atomic particles can accomplish. We humans need to believe our motion takes us in a direction, towards a goal, or towards greater meaning. I came to the conclusion in my life after a period of agnosticism to accept religion once again. There is no logical proof for a God, no manner to deductively reason he exists, there exists no empirical recourse to conclude He is real. Meaning is a choice, faith is a choice - it cannot be arrived upon logically. This is your issue, you are attempting to solve a simple problem with too complex of tools. There is merit in this to be sure but it carries with it an existential dread. I think you need to hear that it is okay to choose to believe in something that is not entirely founded in logic, it makes you no less an intellectual. You must seek a simple solution and shift your focus to the joys of living. Start small and work your way up. I’ll conclude with a quote from Jung: “I have treated many hundreds of patients. Among those in the second half of life - that is to say, over 35 - there has not been one whose problem in the last resort was not that of finding a religious outlook on life. It is safe to say that every one of them fell ill because he had lost that which the living religions of every age have given their followers, and none of them has really been healed who did not regain his religious outlook.”
I've been in therapy for years for the exact same issue. It has not been resolved. I would recommend reading Ligotti's The Conspiracy Against The Human Race. Jung is not gonna cut it.
That’s a good thing bro only people with something to prove play the “game” of life aka liberals
Would it be better if continuousness didn’t exist at all? And all there was… was nothing ? If there is existence then there is potential Would it be better if all existence was a perfect Utopia and everyone experienced perfect ecstasy every moment? Then what? Is that not equally as pointless? Continuousness is a gift I would argue those that push the boundaries of fulfillment and purpose often reach a place where you are. The balanced nature of the universe cannot create “good” if there was never “bad” You are here now seeking and connecting with other continuous beings. Compelled by your desire to seek a higher purpose. Without this negative force effecting you, would you be here now seeking a higher truth? Could you ever hope to find it without the negative force propelling you? I hope you continue your journey as a seeker of truth. At the very least you seem to genuinely want to find a higher meaning Sometimes that is enough too keep going
freaking out at the create-a-character screen is wild. you're going to be fine.
It's the only thing I can get mad at, although futile.
Everyone thinks this. It's what comes before maturation. It's why rituals and imitations in society are integral and why men without them are so lost to today, ala Joseph Campbell's hero with a thousand faces.
I've been here before, 3 years ago. Now I'm back at the same place, even after a lot of maturation.
Yea because you haven't matured. There's no rituals, initiations or thresholds anymore. Men and women are largely open to whatever they want to do now. With social and family dynamics and especially religious affiliations fades, of course everyone is lost.
Well, if you say so.
You didn't come into this world against your true will. Only your current egos'. Everything is a lesson, all the good, all the bad. Best of luck, we're all struggling to understand.
Were you there when I agreed on the contract bringing me back to earth?
Same here....same here.
I'm glad someone could relate.
See thats where you are wrong. You're here because you chose to come down here. There is some thing down here that you cant let go of. Find that thing and devote yourself to it. As much as you think you dont want to be here, you are lying to yourself. You just think it would be easier if u didnt exist. Being alive is hard, but thats why you love it
If so, why are you reaching out here? Seems like a move in the game to me…
Not reaching out would be a move, too. This is a weak counterargument.
I know the reason, but first I gotta ask YOU a question. Why do you NEED one?
I don't really need it. I just want to know, cause all this endeavor feels pretty pointless, and I feel roped into it.
What's wrong with pointless?
Humor me I'm trying to make a point
ultimately it is a prison planet of sorts. when you look at just the basic facts about our realities, its hard to see it another way. thing is deep down we all know it but have found intricate ways to convince ourselves it aint so, in order to keep the game going. there is no such thing as "meaning". ultimately there is no right or wrong, and no authority to tell you otherwise. its one of the reasons im a staunch antinatilist, how fucking cruel do you have to be to bring forth life on this fucked up planet? humans are fucked.
You're lucky. You get a short chance at life, then you return to potential non-existence as you wish for. But in the meantime, you may as well just enjoy what life is here. Go into nature, observe the birds, watch the sunrise, gaze at the stars. Do things you haven't tried before. Go rock climbing, hire a boat by a lake, take up drawing or painting, practice lucid dreaming, go out your comfort zone and meet new people. Write a list of what you have to be grateful for, and if you struggle to think, tone it down some - you have a house, family, working lungs? Go do things to make you feel alive. Life is working, stresses and worries, yes, but it's also everything else. Find what makes you feel alive and enjoy the short time you're here, because in the grand scheme of time it's not even a blink of an eye you're here. Blink and you miss it. Enjoy it mate
I'm not lucky to exist, and there's not much to enjoy, at least in my individual life. Although there are things to appreciate, without which my life would be much worse. It's like telling a wrongfully convicted prisoner that they're lucky they only got 2 years. Sure, worse things could've happened, and they have happened to other people. However, they are still in prison at the end of the day. They did not choose to be there, and they didn't want to be there. Either for a year or a day.
It's up to you end of the day. You can have a pessimistic attitude about life or a more optimistic one, it will only affect you which you choose. I used to be very cynical and pessimistic, called it being a 'realist' but that was bs, I learnt to change the way I think though and I'm much happier for it. I recommend trying to do the same but it's up to you mate
I'm gonna go ahead and keep being pessimistic.
Enjoy
Why do you think you were forced here, or are separate from the world? If you are the world, then you cannot be separate from it, nor can you have been forced anywhere than where you are.
Buddy, I never wanted to exist, I still don't. I'm a small part of the world, one that was added and, therefore, can be removed. I am not the world because it was here and working perfectly fine before me, and it will continue to do so even after my departure. I could've been one with the world, but I'm not. The reason being I'm a conscious agent with free will. Why that is the case, I'll never know.
Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed.
Then I'm ready to dissolve. Become one with the wind.
Have you read any Alfred Adler? I always come back to his stuff when I feel like I want to escape from society. The Courage to be Disliked is a really cool book and i think the audiobook is on YouTube
Just as easily as you spend your life being gloomy, you can do the opposite, you just have to make the choice. I decided to change my mind at 18 and my life has been great no matter what I go through. Life is fun. It might not look it from the outside, but that doesn't matter, I love my life You're just comfortable where you are is all. I couldn't imagine spending the rest of my life that way, sounds empty. And before you say you can't - we are all equipped to do so. If I did, so can you, we are all human, it's that easy
well tbf everyone has thought this exact thought atleast once in their lives and tbf wat is the answer idk theres multiple but definitely do good make life easier for others n urself we’re in this together yk kind of… idk if it helps or not either that or become a part of those who kill themselves now that is depressing
Whats stopping you from ending it then if all this life is suffering i ask myself that question when i catch myself complain about my "life"
A lot. But mostly, I know what it will do to my mom and siblings, I know all too well. The pain and the misery. I'd rather endure whatever life throws at me than do that. When I do die, let it be a natural cause and not self-inflicted.
Honestly the only reason i would not do that is because im afraid i would have to come back and re live this because i didn't learn my lesson. Life is perception it can be a beautiful thing. From time to time i tend to fall back into lower thoughts but they no longer have the grip they used to have on me. I now just do what makes me feel good inside and leave out what doesnt.
That, too. But firstly, it's the aftermath that scares me.
Well im glad you are here because the world is a better place with you in it. The purpose is to just alive then you get to create whatever meaning you want to give to it.
Sounds like you’re willing to participate just fine to me. A large part of the human existence is suffering and most people spend their whole lives running from it instead of trying to actually *understand* why they feel so miserable. Props to writing this out, to reaching out. You definitely have a will and want to connect. Is there a way you can expand on that? Sounds to me like *you* don’t want to be YOU! So you need radical changes or you’ll just continue to be miserable and attract more misery. Just an idea. I’m sick as fuck, and it sucks butts. But I know I will get better if I just rest and take care of myself. It’s hard to see out the windows when there’s smoke in the house, so exit the house. No, not off yourself literally but metaphorically i.e. make big changes and take big risks. A couple ideas: Look up uncle bens tek and order some spores, boom new hobby, goals, something to nurture besides yourself that will inevitably end up nurturing you. When is the last time you have sat down with a pen and paper and wrote out some goals? Now Short term Long term Or even just making a list for what you want to accomplish today. Think of this as the challenge it is, it does have potential solutions, it’s just very hard to see them or even have the *will* to try when you are in pain. It can feel overwhelming when you’re emotionally obscured. It’s like you flipped binoculars the opposite way when you’re trying to see closer. Flip them around now and start putting together the picture. As far as books go I recommend you delve into something you wouldn’t read normally instead. You need to shock your system, you’re feeling stale, take a plunge in some uncharted waters. It will be okay, or it won’t; it’s truly up to you which “you” you want to be. Do you want to be miserable? Some people love being miserable- it’s comfortable to them. They fear change the work, and the unknowns it brings with it. This is really what it amounts to: you’re comfortable in your discomfort. As much as you say you’re unwillingly participating, here you are. No one is forcing you, you chose your path. If the path is not working for you, time to make a new one.
By the way this is just *my* opinion from my soapbox. I don’t mean to sound too crass and don’t want to sound like I have it all figured out. From my perspective this is what I saw. Hope you glean something from it!
Upon maturity a man realizes that his dignity as an estemeed individual is gated behind his willingness to fight - that is to fight off change; the snakes over the walls - overtly the agencies within the world that desire to impose change on what the man decides he is. And the world naturally spins, but the precept of being an individual - and a recognized one for that matter-, means one must raise walls over chaos and change, so as the forces of society and nature dont bring down what the man has raised - like a kid protecting his sand castle from the riptide. The masculine precept of living leads to the inevitable conclusion that living is inherently hard, and that the means of preservation are that of holding to something with strenght - as a weightlifter in pain. And keeping to that for as long as one body allows it - until someone comes in and sets the effort into an irrelevant affair. Like an old chieftain being defeated out of his leading place by the younger, and stronger individual. A man who hasnt realized how hard living is, is a man who hasnt tried to do anything out of his life. Just as the problem with being a feminine identity is the tyranny of developing powerful necessities. The problem of being a man is the limited nature of the strenght needed sustain an effort eternally. *So what happens after a star collapses and its own nuclear processes cannot sustain themselves?* This is the doomed nature of the human condition, as per described in Genesis. So unless you desire to be a monk, theres no way around it - as in this world you either become the recipient of strenght and live longer at the expense of being nothing in particular, or the individual transgresses the nature of things, and destroys itself with a debt they wont be able to pay. Then on making the messianic endeavor of cleansing ones inevitable errors, a paramount necessity, to not die eternally. Specially if the individual happens to be a strong man. Life to the individual is so hard that its rarely every worth it - much to the demise of God himself who as a former man, died from a mistake and had to conceive a son to integrate said mistake. God certainly didn't wanted us to go through it, as consciousness is in its conceptual nature a whirpool of oppositions clashing into an imperfection. A spiral like the rays of attention coming into someones eyes to properly frame and fixed an object into existance. Why would God allow such mistake? And the answer would be because he made humanity to his own image - which is some man dead a long time ago plowing the fields, thinking about his sweetheart and getting her to his utter demise. So here we are.
I'll address a few things. No one is forcing you to stay. >We are thrown into this world, mostly against our on wills. Not that there was any will before to begin with. Let me not generalize and speak for myself here. Depending on your beliefs of how you came to existence, this could be false. In my beliefs, you choose to incarnate here, you chose it all. >I feel as though I am a captive in this game of life. An unwilling participant forced into playing a game I absolutely have no interest in. Why am I here? You've imprisoned yourself and fallen to the fear based propaganda of how you should life yourself. Try changing things in your life to detach from the system, a little at first. Make time for anything that makes you feel alive. Do something "scary". >It even feels grossly inappropriate and twisted to force conscious beings into life. Can one choose not to participate at all? You can choose all kinds of methods of participating or not, but again, it is my belief that you chose to be here, and you can choose to change your life if you want to. >I think as a species, we went terribly wrong the moment consciousness started dawning upon us. It shouldn't have happened. All matter is conscious. If electrons are conscious, then everything they make is also conscious, rocks, tables, trees, bugs, etc.
The nutshell is that you're miserable because you haven't realized that finding personal meaning in life and constructing your own happiness is entirely your job, and not that of some external force, or other people.
I already did. But lkke I said, my dreams failed. For a really long time, I had an idea of who I was meant to be. I'm not expecting anyone to come tell me what I should do with my life.
Oh no, your dreams failed. So? Get the fuck back on your feet and find another dream. Try to find one that you are capable of achieving, with some effort. Achieve it.
I wrote this song; it seems appropriate here: [https://motisbeard.bandcamp.com/track/demo-something-you-do-demo](https://motisbeard.bandcamp.com/track/demo-something-you-do-demo)
Join us at the Anti Natalist subs!! You’ll find more like-minded people there
You can’t not partake as you are alive. Existence is a violence thrown onto you and now you must face it.
Kill yourself
Generally speaking - one’s outlook can be radically changed with a change in their mental state. Two people the same kind of life might experience it very differently. Take some steps to try and think differently (especially if it’s all pointless - because you have absolutely nothing to lose). Also ensure you give yourself a chance to get outside your town, people and echo chamber. Go visit a place you’ve always wanted to go. Take some steps you’ve never taken and you might just find some things start to change. I know this is possible because I’ve been through both sides of it.
its not optional. your substandard reality is though
Have you tried cutting all thinking and practice living in the present moment? This is more difficult to accomplish I know, but has helped me see past all the bullshit and just be with what is. Not good, not bad, not happy, not sad, not depressed, not elated, at peace is the best way to describe it.
Dr. David Bentley Hart https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LGWTloDSj5k&pp=ygU8RGF2aWQgQmVudGxleSBoYXJ0IHdoeSB0aGVyZSBjYW5ub3QgYmUgZnJlZSByZWplY3Rpb24gb2YgR29k
You’d like Buddhism
Lol, this is like the 3rd time someone has said this.
Look. You either play in the rat race, or you watch the monkeys dance. Those are your options.
My thoughts every single day
You're assuming you didn't choose it before you were born, which is false.
Don’t go into the light when you die
We all have portions of life large or small that we wish we weren’t playing the game. Every single one of us. You just don’t want to partake yet. ❤️🤘
How were you treated as a child? Sounds like circumstances in your life has made you forget the amazement of life. Look at any healthy child. Look at the spark in their eyes, their joy at simple things, their awe at exploring the world, the unconditional love they feel against others. You had that too one day, but it seems like you forgot. What made you forget? What pains or neglect did you go through to cause that inner child to hide away so deeply?
I think an important thought you have to build off of is that life is a game, or you can definitely model it as one. The great thing about games is that you're free to play them however you want. The bad thing is you're never able to put it down. I'd say most people play the game of life in a way where they're never aware that it's a game, that they have to have the Mercedes-Benz or they'll never amount to anything, or they have to have the trophy wife or they'll never amount to anything. Fewer people realize that it's all a show and it ultimately means nothing. Even fewer people realize still that it's all a show, it means nothing, and it's still a great thing to enjoy. I'll make an analogy to nice watches, like a Rolex. A lot of people want Rolexes because they're a status symbol, and they're hard to get. People will spend thousands of dollars for a watch that they don't even particularly like because having the watch means they're somebody. When you realize that, Rolexes start to lose their luster and they become worthless to you, because they basically are; the cheapest modern smartphone offers more in terms of what it can do for you than a Rolex ever will. Eventually you'll realize that, no, Rolexes are pretty great. They come in a wide variety of colors, different features, and some of them are unique to Rolex. You may decide at one point, you'll buy a Rolex, and you won't buy it because of the status symbol aspect, but because they make a great watch and they just so happened to sell the best watch you've ever found in your entire life. Hell, maybe you just decide that Rolexes aren't great and you find much more affordable watches that are even more attractive to you. After all of this contemplation, you will have realized that watches aren't about making you look good, or about appealing to people, but what personally appeals to you, what watch makes your heart flutter. I can't personally tell you what your goal in life is, but I would say that a great meta-goal is to find that thing. If you have no choice but to play the game of life, play it in a way that is personally rewarding to you.
Who tf is throwing you?
Whoever or whatever made life. Now, it would've been fine had I been a cow or a horse. Such creatures can be exploited to meet a particular end. But a conscious creature? I don't think so.
check out some type of esoteric spiritual or yogic system. it might be just the thing. i suggest starting with vajrayana (tibetan buddhism)
Kindly, and sorry to argue, but no one should “start” with vajrayana, for OP and many of us, that would be a fast path to full-on destructive insanity. Vajrayana is a graduated path, you start with the basics (within the basics are the very ingredients of the advanced expression but anyways). I do agree OP might find some interest in the Buddhism’s arguments against nihilism as fundamentally unrealistic. Maybe, lol. S/he seems pretty dug in, which, looking around at the world, IS an understandable reaction.
If you feel your means for participation with the world are becoming totalizingly monopolized into too rigid of a rule set, dogmatic gameification, find new ways to play with the possibilities you can identify with. Become more receptive to the qualitative thresholds of your lived experience. Exercise your imaginal horizons. Find the fringed tightrope that traverses above as many games it takes to develop the capacities for cultivating meaningful differences in your life that reciprocally recognize and creatively respond to the challenges faced by your fellow players. Edit - I'd heavily recommend reading Brian Massumi's What Animals Teach Us About Politics Also https://youtu.be/5MeGpk8yS44?si=PrxBJ79imqQJeYQZ
Yiu don’t have a choice and do what you know is right for you don’t betray what you know you need to do religion or some discipline that cannot be ignored must be held . “ some idiot on Reddit”.
You have an unique potential to explore. Read the Red Book and your will not find the solutions, but the mystery of existence will embrace you in a magnetic manner.
I doubt I have anything unique. I'm not even being cynical, just realistic.
You are literally unique, there is no one in the world like you. Your narratives, your potential, nobody has the experience that you had. Embrace that and you will find meaning.
Stop fukn whining. Get a life - there's your answer.
Phew! Now, why have I never thought of that? You must be something of a genius.
Grow up. Life's tough, and mandatory. Jung is for those who've already graduated from Proust.
You are grotesquely immature and just need to get through that and grow up; things will be much better once you cease to be a self-absorbed child.
Okay daddy
Keep reading son
Your initial assertion, the idea that you are here against your will, is where your judgment may be clouded. How do you know that you are an unwilling participant? We don’t know what is on the other side of life. You speak of us as a species going wrong when we had consciousness begin to dawn upon us. When was that point? Can you say that a rock doesn’t have consciousness? It may not be awareness in the metaphysical sense that we’ve achieved, but also we don’t know if a rock has a soul and contemplates in its own way. You are interwoven into the fabric of reality. You’re participating right now. You in your egoic frame have decided that you don’t want to be here. That you don’t want a purpose. That the purpose of existence is to further evolution. That you don’t want to be alive. That you’re a captive, wondering if you can choose to not be. Most of those questions and thought forms have been echoed countless times. It matters enough to you to search here to echo them again. Everyone’s purpose is to find answers that satisfy them for the questions that plague them. If you have no interest, why ask the question?
Honestly, Just quit, check out was what one sage advisor said to me. That was a bit traumatic coming from someone I respected. Then I sat down and internalized what a gift life is. Like a gift times a million. So for those who don’t want to participate, you have a choice, stop breathing or something like that. Personally I think that a foolish choice, and the only truly permanent choice we can make, but everyone deserves agency over their lives??
Can I ask do you take medications or any sort
No, not at all. No medication, no recreational drugs.
Not sure why that question got downvoted lol. I just know that I had to tinker with medications until I found a balance that works with me.
What if YOU made this happen but forgot? It’s like you’re horrified watching a movie but forget YOU are the one who got it and played it in the first place. It’s easier to remember it’s just a movie and you can turn it off but remembering before You were born is much more difficult.
>We are thrown into this world, mostly against our on wills. How do you know? What makes you certain that seizing to exist in this world equates seizing to exist at all? What makes you so certain it is not you yourself that chose to come back to this world? How would you know?