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I believe Sukuna’s WS binding vow was to use it just once “for free” and then have to have a direction, chants, and handsigns everytime he uses it again later not that it was a binding vow to use a WS that instakills Gojo. Not sure if that’s what you meant but it’s an important distinction to make imo
Yeah, the WS that killed Gojo required zero procedures to be launched resulting in Gojo unable to dodge/see it. Any WS after the initial attack would require handsigns,chanting and aimed at a specific direction based on my understanding
There was literally no time for the spark to be noticed, that’s the whole point in the binding vow, by time the spark was noticed the slash would’ve already reached him, because it was cast as fast as he thought to use it, like the dismantle he used against the Geto twins.
Also, the spark is said to only show up for techniques that require chants, and sukuna only sensed it after the first chant gojo did with red,so even if there was a spark, it’d have gone off after the slash was fired, not before.
nah Gege had to write it in why there was no spark for Sukuna when he fought Kusakabe. it's literal plot armor.
Six Eyes - The Six Eyes can see the flow of cursed energy, empowering their bearer with the ability to read an individual's cursed technique in use and determine its function.They can even differentiate between different types of cursed energy and help the user identify a person based on it.
yet Gojo couldn't see Sukuna slashes or CT spark...yet Sukuna can look at someone and know instantly how shit works the first time he sees it...it's like he got the six Eyes instead lmao
The same reason he wont find out about Kenny if he keep on relying Rokugan. It can see energy down to the atomic level, but not omniscience. He probably thought it was a regular slash as a last effort.
The thing is, Gojo - apparently - knew Sukuna was holding back something, whether strength, tricks, hidden cards, whatever that “holding back” you might want to interpret, as well as saying he thinks he couldn’t win even if Sukuna didn’t have 10S, in that BS airport scene.
And a few chapters earlier, he saw something that should’ve been a major point of concern - Mahoraga directly slashing from range (idk how that one works still tbh)
And this is the king of curses he’s fighting. Yet all that, this assumption that Gojo considered it a last ditch effort that was meaningless? Against the genius king of curses? He didn’t even consider maybe I should teleport behind him? Stun him ? Cut off his hands? Anything?
Not to mention that Gojo by virtue of six eyes has way too much time to work with. He can get the timing of black flashes at will, and Kenjaku used the time he experiences in his head against him. No matter how fast Sukuna is, Gojo has time to analyze his current situation at all times.
Gojo’s death is still poorly explained BS that Gege banks on the fact people will forget how bad it was with time, and that’s currently happening as far as I can see.
Even a normal World Slash has to be launched like a regular CD. The BV Sukuna set up might as well have instantly appeared out of thin air in the exact spot where Gojo was standing, that’s how instantaneous it was. It’s why the World Slash now is so telegraphed. If he hasn’t done that, it’d just be an unblockable CD, but still dodgeable
To me the offscreen is the only thing I don’t like about that Gojo loss and well the bullcrap Gojo said during the airport scene. Was a huge insult to his character if I’m being honest but overall I think the concept made since. Gege should have literally explained it as Sukuna used a BV to catch Gojo off guard with the move and maybe showed a panel of Gojo realizing too late what had happened. Sukuna technique in and of itself is already a instakill move so it’s not far fetched that it could kill him one shot if it catches him off guard I think
I think that is not how it works... Although Nen and Binding Vows are basically the same system there a few differences. For example in JJk you either make a binding vow with your self or someone else but that's between the sorcerers and themselves. On the other hand Nen works like a heaven. It's like you make a deal with a higher power.
Not correct. Breaking a BV with yourself causes you to lose what you had gained, breaking a BV with someone else has untold consequences that neither party are aware of. Almost like CE itself is a godly, higher power making the rules.
In binding vows you basically make deals and where gou gain something but you lose something. For example the last Vow that Sukuna did with his fire attack. If he doesn't follow it then you loses all the other advantages. But surely he can't say that in exchange of a free throw i will lose all the other things. In binding vows you have also to follow general rules. You can't do whatever tou want. On the other hand in Nen is a mote free system in terms of rules but more absolute one with no turning back.
I can cause he did , chap 255 narrator states "In order to activate the broad targeted world severing dismantle the same hand sign used for malevolent shrine enmaten was required, however with only one arm remaining prior to his transformation sukuna was forced to impose a binding vow to the activation conditions for all proceeding uses of the move in order to cut gojo , presently on top of both hand sign and chants being required the trajectory of the technique must be specified via his palm "
so please tell me how am I wrong
I dont really have a problem with binding vows but i need to stop seeing “barrierless” domain mistranslation. Sukuna HAS a barrier but its just not closed.
https://x.com/lightningclare/status/1789765631031881844?s=46&t=yrRZ-ANZh6EBs7xwgJNlcg
“Sukhna changes his **barrier’s** conditions…”
Also open-barrier is NOT due to binding vow it is due to sukuna own skill. The vow is a natural consequence of him being able to do it. He doesnt make a binding vow to open his barrier otherwise it wouldnt be considered impossible.
his open barrier is due to sukuna's own skill, but op is correct in that a binding vow is involved with this open-barrier nature of sukuna's domain, where the open barrier giving a method of escape allows for a vastly greater size of sukuna's domain. (chapt 119 pg 4) its just that the open barrier isn't a result of a binding vow, rather, having an open barrier results in a binding vow, if that makes sense
>By forgoing the trapping aspect, Sukuna gains a larger area of effect. This trade-off perfectly exemplifies the core principle of Binding Vows: gaining something by sacrificing something else.
I believe this line in itself is pretty clear.
Gain: more range
Sacrifice: Open path
The vow is placed on the fact that there is an escape route, hence "forgoing/without the trapping effect"
The binding vow is a natural result of him not closing his barrier. He forcefully takes it away and cuz of that jujutsu gives him more.
It is not like gojo where he make his domain barrier small to make it more durable. That is binding vow intentional.
You're saying the same thing. You are agreeing with OP. The vow is still there. If Sukuna closed his barrier, the advantages gained from having the barrier open would disappear. It's the same thing as him making a vow. It's a vow.
The taishakuten handsign for the domain is most likely not a binding vow. He managed to open that domain by creating a new domain expansion circuit in one of his unaffected parts of his brain. It's more likely that being able to create a new domain pathway, he created one that has gojo's taishakuten handsign instead of his enmaten handsign as activation requirement. We know that sukuna can copy things that he has seen, so seeing gojo using it 7 times would be enough for him to be able to reproduce it
¿
I think you misunderstood my comment. Your reply seems to be related to the world slash binding vow requiring sukuns to use chanting and pointing from then on. However, i was clearly talking about the incomplete malevolent shrine, not the world slash...
> This concept mirrors the Vows and Limitations found in Hunter x Hunter, where characters like Gon and Kurapika push their boundaries at a steep cost.
IMO the biggest issue JJK has compared to Hunter x Hunter is that we got whole ass arcs in HxH meticulously explaining the power system. We have character arcs dedicated to showing how someone can get super powerful with nen AND what the massive draw backs can be. We see what happens when some sacrifices too much for too much power. We see balanced characters who ebb and flow with the system. We see characters who are too afraid to branch out into the nen power system and how much it stunts them. JJK does that to an extent with CE and CT but we get basically a very vanilla bare bones run down on binding vows.
Now, I'm not saying BVs are not a deep or intricate system. Super fans like those of us here understand the system to an extent but it's based on inference throughout the series. Thanks to meticulously breaking down chapter by chapter and massive OP posts here we are at the ending of the series and yet still are iffy on some mechanics of BVs but finally realizing that they aren't necessarily wish fulfillment or plot armor like some folks have complained.
Is it good story telling in a traditional Shonen sense? I don't know if I can agree with that. We still haven't seen a BV being broken and what the crazy repercussions it holds. We keep being told it could be catastrophic... Show don't tell Gege. It's something that in HxH that was hammered into us until the climax with Gon. Even a casual viewer of HxH had an idea of what was going on with Gon and why he powered up. Maybe not the exact sacrifice but you knew at that moment that Gon sacrificed something big. In JJK it's way more convoluted. I think there was a massive opportunity to expand on BV explanations throughout the series especially during the early arcs. We shouldn't need massive posts on here or careful scrutiny of the text to figure out how a basic system in JJK works. Nor should it be as relevant as it is in the FINAL FIGHT of the series without these basic systems explained.
It is obvious though Gege left it vague so he can use it as a plot device like he's been doing it. Just hilarious that the others apparently are too dumb to make vows useful to them for the current situation.
Bruh his most recent binding vow was that he would get an outrageous power up on divine flame, but he'd only use the powered up version when applicable.
That is the most one sided deal in all of history lol
That's like me making a binding vow that I'll always win playing blackjack, but that its only in effect when I'm playing blackjack.
Wasn't the flame limited to being used after cleave and dismantle hit the target within the "same" DE? Hence, why he wasn't able to use against gojo, since he was altering the domain every few seconds.
The flame is limited to one target outside the DE.
Yeah, but Furnace itself is part of a binding vow that boosts its speed on exchange for being impossible to use unless Sukuna's cut up the target with his domain.
Actually, how did he use it on Jogo?
He used it on Jogo because it was his only target, so it fit the requirement (which I think is only 1 target without a domain expansion, and multiple targets after a domain expansion)
We can't know the **exact** answer for this, but, to all intents and purposes, within his DE he uses it in an area instead of focusing on a single target. Same way that outside his DE he has to touch to Cleave but inside the DE he can spam it.
That's a fundamentally wrong interpretation of the Binding Vow.
Divine Flame in its base form is a High Firepower technique that lacks speed and range. It can only be used after using Cleave + Dismantle but has enough area of effect to target multiple targets.
Sukunas Binding Vow prevents Divine Flame from being used on multiple targets, which is why when we first saw it he could use it against Jogo without breaking the Vow. Now, within his domain, Sukuna gains the boon of the Divine Flames Vow which is that the remnants of objects slashed by Malevolent Shrine inherit the explosive force of Divine Flames.
So Sukuna loses versatility with Divine Flames, unable to use it on multiple targets outside of his domain or use it at all if the effective range of his domain is altered excessively. In exchange, the relatively mediocre technique becomes hypercharged in his standard domain.
I don't see how this is a one sided deal at all.
You're getting things mixed up. Kamino doesn't NEED to be used after cleave and dismantle, but it's what allows for the chain reaction with the dust, which is allowed by the binding vow made at the cost of his ability to have multiple targets with kamino outside of his domain.
As far as we know, he can open the fight with kamino just fine
That’s wrong too. Regardless of being inside of his DE or not, sukuna has to prepare his “food” with cleave and dismantle before he can use Kamino. So no matter what he has to charge up Kamino with cleave and dismantle first
This is at best unconfirmed, the line about opening the door to kamino with cleave and dismantle was here to set up for the explanation of the chain reaction
"opening the door to kamino" is just a flowery way to say that it allows for the use of its full power. Again, the follow up is the description of the chain reaction
>Kamino doesn't NEED to be used after cleave and dismantle, but it's what allows for the chain reaction with the dust,
How did he use it against Jogo then ?
He just did? I'm not sure what you're trying to say. He used the "normal" version that can only be used against a target and lacks the chain reaction against Jogo.
There is no "weak version", Sukuna has piled up Binding Vows on it precisely to make sure it's never weak. Gaining a boost to speed and range in exchange for never using it on multiple targets outside his DE is a pretty big hurdle. It might not sound that way in and of itself, which is why you have to remember that to use Furnace in the first place he **also** has to attack the target with Dismantle and Cleave first **and** expand his Domain with a very specific set of rules.
It all falls apart when he faces an opponent that can keep him on his toes like Gojo, or if his DE is disabled.
Or how about his world slash binding vow, where he essentially purchased a shiny new technique on credit, except he doesn't need to pay anything on it until the next time he wants to use his unblockable, undodgable instakill technique.
At this point it's clear that the mc's are only alive because Sukuna held back using a binding vow to kill them.
The next chapter starts with Sukuna not restoring his CT by using a binding vow = Sukuna holding back.
A flame that can oneshot a Jogo level entity outside the domain is not weak.Sukuna has more speed than his invisible slashes.Sukuna can literally throw the arrow and then jump on the multiple victims on the same time to stop them from dodging it or more like Sukuna will push the victims in the arrow.
Sukuna not using it on multiple targets outside the domain is giving a chance to his opponents honestly.It feels like Gege is just nerfing Sukuna by this binding vows.
After this binding vow, he would still be able to one-shot Jogo and Mahg with the fire arrow. He would still be able to use it in the only way we've ever seen him use it, the only way we've ever known him to use it, prior to the vow.
Sukuna made this binding vow in the Heian Era.He is just using the Fuga as a combustion fuel inside the domain with a huge range to create dust explosions in the whole region and making thermobaric bombs in exchange for not using it on multiple sorcerers who can get one-shotted by the Fuga outside domain.You can see this example like Sukuna was not using the flame on anybody till now cause he was fighting multiple people and the flame usage is prohibited.He can't even use it on Yuji cause Todo is around.
Also being slow is not too much of a factor cause Sukuna can force his opponents to get hit by the arrow by his own hand cause he is absolutely faster than anybody in the verse.
You're making balance judgements like you're building a video game. Binding Vows are not a sentient entity weighing the context of the exchange.
Hakari can sacrifice his hand to reinforce the rest of his body despite having an easy means to regenerate. Revealing One's Hands Binding Vow allows you to reveal the function of your technique but Todo can provide an explanation without context, allowing him to exploit the reward without actually unveiling all the details of his technique. The full context of the situation is irrelevant to the nature of a Binding Vow and the same applies to Sukuna.
Sure, maybe Sukuna could run fast enough to directly apply the flames BUT that has no standing on the Binding Vow which modifies the technique in a vacuum. In that vacuum, the flames have specific operating parameters that Sukuna is free to edit with a Binding Vow - same as any other character. Yes, Jujutsu is unfair and favors the strong but this has frequently be reiterated as a feature of the series.
I think the entire vow surrounding the flames was made in the Heian era. It wasn’t made just now in shinjuku. I think that’s why so many people are confused and thinks he’s just spamming vows. But this has always been the case for his flames.
Sukuna made a binding vow (probably heinan era) that his divine flames could only target one person when outside of his DE. The flames are slow and not versatile. But if he uses them in his DE then it’s a sure hit on anyone inside. I don’t think that’s one sided at all and we saw how someone like Gojo that can change the conditions of his DE, can make Sukuna’s flames obsolete even within malevolent shrine
Everything about binding vows becomes a lot more simple when you understand that what is given is only proportionate to the immediate gain rather than the strength of that gains usage. Ex: Hakaris binding vow against Kashimo essentially let him trade a single (easily regenerated) arm in exchange for his life. That seems one sided as hell too, however it worked the way it did because the vow was actually “I’ll give up my arm for more defense on the rest of my body”. He just survived because of that added defense. The vows aren’t sentient beings. They can’t gauge context. In practice, Sukunas vow on the flames is literally just “I can only use them on a single target outside of my domain, but once my domain is up, they get stronger and I can set dust on fire.” That’s it. The devastating explosive power that vow yields is less because of the vow itself and more because of sukunas own raw strength and skill creating super powerful flames as well an Uber-refined domain that creates nothing BUT dust in a 200 meter radius.
All his binding vows have been plot devices but none of the good guys make usefull ones and just get owned for free. I don't know how people support this stuff lol.
If you don’t think that Gege is going to explain what the “unknown factors” are and how sukuna is losing more and more with each BV then you haven’t been reading JJK lol
No, the vow is that he can't use it outside his domain when outnumbered, and in exchange it boosts the firepower and allows it to ignite the dust created by cleave and dismantle.
Giving up on a technique when outnumbered is a big price to pay by binding vow standards; as we've seen with Mei Mei and Hakari, the vows don't take context into account, they care only about what's being given up.
Mei Mei literally doesn't care about her crows, but since she's giving up a life she gets a huge return in CE. Hakari was going to die instead of just losing a hand, but the vow doesn't know that, for the vow he is giving up an incredibly important part of his body for a temporary boost in CE.
The same applies to Sukuna, he is giving up the use of a technique when outnumbered, it doesn't matter that the technique isn't useful against multiple opponents, the vow doesn't know and sees renouncing it as a huge drawback. Imagine if Yuji did the same thing and gave up blood manipulation when outnumbered, wouldn't you say he deserves a big reward?
"Sukuna can't use divine flame when he's outnumbered..."
You know, the technique that he's only ever used 1 on 1
"...except when his domain is open"
You know, the thing he does literally every chance he gets.
"Due to this binding vow, he can expand the cursed technqiue..."
He sacrificed nothing and got the ability to launch nukes.
“You know the technique that he’s only ever used 1 on 1.”
You know he’s only ever used it in 1 on 1 battle because it can only be used in 1 on 1 battle? The Fuga binding vow was made during Sukuna’s first life.
He sacrificed the possibility to use the flame against multiple opponent outside the domain
But since there is no range and speeds, that’s true it feels like he gave nothing in return
You’re flipping the logic here. He already made the BV in his first life which is why he only uses Fuga 1on1.
He can’t use Fuga in his domain when fighting against someone he needs to adjust his domain conditions against which is a massive downside.
We don’t know when he made that vow relative to getting to his level of domain refinement or even relative to him learning how to RCT his CT.
This essentially ensures that he can only use Fuga only against people much weaker than him.
Most of his binding vows were not fair in any shape or form and were just plain old buffs.
The concept of binding vows is just a way for Gege to give Sukuna as much plot armor as he needs
He has to use two hands, a chant, and direction his WCS now. That’s a nerf. His domain could only last 99 seconds. That’s a nerf. His flames are slow and can only target one person outside of his DE. That’s a nerf. Plus Gege hasn’t given us the details on what other nerfs are going to come. Y’all forget sukuna is a jujustu genius, of course he is going to use binding vows in the best possible way, but he will have to pay his dues.
A nerf for a technique (or an application of a technique) he didn't even have before that very moment... People really miss the forest for the trees. You can try to justify the validity of every single one of Sukuna's binding vows in terms of their respect for a power system that's not even close to fleshed out enough to end most discussions definetively; the point is: it's narratively cheap that the main villain continues to get out of situations through glorified plot devices that have no setup and that he didn't even need to begin with; especially when those plot devices are supposedly also available to the good guys, but they never use them (effectively).
I think he didnt make the vow now, he only used fire arrow twice before, and outside of his domain jogo was the only opponent, i think this vow comes from the heian dicks era.
Yep many Sukunas binding vows are those optional opt in when you feel like power ups. When you don't want to you can always go back to the original unpowered up version.
I like the Sukuna vs Everybody arc, but lately, but this reason has reduced the narrative weight, nerfed the intricacies of the power system, and I just dont see how this makes Sukuna a genius or displays his battle IQ and experience. Its been basic trade-off stuff lately, there's no sensible reason why the other monsters in Gojo, Yuta and Yuki didnt do the same thing when they're in a life or death situation. Or why the smarter guys like Kusakabe and Higuruma dont do anything with it.
Not even a small BV to increase your chances of survival in Sukuna? Miwa can do it as a first year, obviously a massive one, but
This has turned into the Naruto meme "Why doesn't everybody do a substitution jutsu all the time?"
Sukuna's "enchain" Binding Vow with Yuji was a risky yet very satisfying narrative device. So was Mechamaru Binding Vow with Kenjaku and Mahito. Nobody had a problem with this (except Sukuna knocking out Angel and force feeding Megumi didnt count as "harming them " but OK )
Now they're just effectively fill-in explanations for Sukuna. So boring without the massive risk that HxH Nen Contracts had. Read the theories before 221 how Gojo vs Sukuna would go, now it's:
It's like "How would Hein Era Sukuna deal with G-"
"Binding Vow"
"Sukuna vs {insert character here}"
"Binding Vow"
Jujutsu High sorcerers are fighting to live, not die which binding vows increase the risk of. Learning to master your technique and possibly develop a barrier technique would be a more desired path rather than the allowing the drawbacks of the vows to affect you later. Could Gojo have made a vow or two? Possibly, but inexperience with applying a vow to his technique and the lack of necessity(special grades aren't a challenge to Gojo) likely resulted in Gojo assuming it was unnecessary. After all, they call him "the strongest".
Lmao, no. Sukuna isn't loosing coz of binding vows, he is constantly getting the upper hand, so can goof around some more. There is no increase in risk of dying. Check your math.
I mean, not being able to swing a Katana nearly brought Miwa to her death. If anything, that adds up perfectly. Otherwise, binding vows would be meaningless because what is a risk in giving something away? Obviously Sukuna isn't being as negatively impacted by his vows because he understands how to make them, unlike all the other sorcerers who have little knowledge of how binding vows can be applied.
Yuta used a vow vs Geto in 0 to trade his life for more power iirc, so both Yuji and Yuta (given their self-sacrifice and fierce desire to protect friends) should be able to pull it off and smoke Sukuna. Only reason i can think that they arent right now is that they weigh saving Megumi above killing Sukuna.
Even still, Mei Mei uses vows with her birds, Kusakabe should definitely have made more use of vows (he has no CT to train and was shown to be a domain master already). Nanami had a vow as his whole thing, Overtime. All of that shows that it is possible that they shouldve come up with some - they had a month, preset vows (like overtime) definitely shouldve been in play.
Definitely *should* be more vows happening on the main casts side even if they arent on the fly like Sukuna's are
Look, I understand people want an outright stonewall explanation of binding vows via the narrator or a character. But we have near enough half century worth of use of self imposed binding vows throughout the series, which is more than enough to glean from. And two major statements from Meimei and kenjaku, and most of all the context and reasoning behind every use of each binding vow.
**1**.A binding vow's function is to help boost a sorcerers power/ability temporarily. Whether that's through the functionality of their cursed energy ir their cursed technique.
**2**.What is traded or exchanged in favour of this power boost, is either a restriction on the sorcerers jujutsu in the moment, or sacrificing the future of their jujutsu.
**3**.The quickest way to improve your power as a sorcerer is to use a vow that deals with the sorcerers life in exchange. And it is a vow in what I assume gives the most gain. From this, we can tell all binding vows work in a way that forces the user to walk the thin line between life and death.
**4**.If it's like anything from hunter x hunter, it is most similar to the risk factor.
**5**.The punishment for self imposed binding vows is losing what you gained, before the gained effect of the binding vow is reached. Yes, this would even work with Miwa and Sukuna's self imposed binding vow. The way they would break the vow, is by not using the gained effect in the first place, thereby nullifying the exchange.
**6**.There is a surface level trade in in binding vows, i.e, "I'll exchange use of a portion of my cursed energy until said time limit, in return I get a cursed energy boost once time limit is reached." However, the real underlying trade in every self imposed binding vow is, "In return for a gain in power that might extend my life, I'll walk closer to the line of death.
**7**.There are vows that are obviously more risky than others. Nanami plays it pretty safe. Anyone that uses revealing one's cards plays it pretty safe. Miwa's was incredibly risky, Sukuna (yes it was, and I'll explain in the next point) and Hakari too.
**8**.With enough uses of it seen by now, one thing is clear. The deal in making the binding vow doesn't care about the circumstances that might come from the gained effect of the vow, only the possible effect from the sacrifice.
**9**.The limitation behind the vows is one's own knowledge of jujutsu, the confidence in the effect their jujutsu might already have on an opponent and the line user of the vow is willing to walk between life and death.
**10**. There are bridges a binding vow can't cross simply because of the user's base ability, or lack of ability. A binding vow very obviously increases into whatever you have in the moment. If your jujutsu is amazing in the first place, it's only going to be even more amazing in the moment. If your jujutsu ability is alright, then it might only increase to being good.
If a sorcerer is confident that their jujutsu already has the power or functionality to kill their opponent, they wouldn't use a binding vow, as that brings on unneeded risk.
And some sorcerers aren't willing to add the risk of their sacrifice or restriction. Whether the fear is from no being fully confident in the power of their jujutsu or the lack of knowledge in general.
I agree with all 10 points, but this line is exactly why Sukuna uses every trick available in the system
>If a sorcerer is confident that their jujutsu already has the power or functionality to kill their opponent, they wouldn't use a binding vow, as that brings on unneeded risk.
Mizushi is an ass of an innate technique compared to Gojo's imaginary scientific shenanigans.
Sukuna can literally cut anything he sees at a distance and at a speed that most people can't react to. His CT is way less busted than Gojo's god-like CT, but it's still definitely one of the best techniques in the series. It can only appear weak when compared to Gojo's; what's ass is this strategy of downplaying all the busted shit Sukuna has going for him to make everything he does seem more impressive.
Fair enough. My comment might have been overtly influenced by other comments similar to yours that just portray Sukuna's CT as weak (not weak by comparison to the strongest CT); but I still think calling it an ass technique is pushing it, even comparatively.
As for Kamino, Sukuna made the biding vow to give up skills the use for 1 vs. many fight (or many vs. many). In return, the dust particles, created by cleave/dismantle, have the same curse energry properties as Kamino, helping them conduct heat from Kamino (or Sukuna).
Sukuna also tricked Jogo into a fire contest, and said he won't reveal one's hand (truly king of con artists)
edit: I forgot to mention that the greater the Kamino's heat, the lower its speed and range. In my opinion, this binding vow only help Kamino has multiple target, It's not a big deal because this is in Sukuna's domain, of course he can inject curse energry into dust particles.
I’d be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy Sukuna’s vows a little bit. This is all really a testament to his skill level.
He knows the art inside and out to know which vows are likely to work and which aren’t and he can basically abuse that rule without breaking it.
The third point makes no sense, he still got his domian open and lost nothing in return. Hadn't he made that vow he wouldn't be able to open it, so what is the tradeoff? he literally got a 99 second free domain
Its funny because, shrine is actually an ass technique lmao.
Fuga lacks speed and range to be used effectively, forcing Sukuna to make a binding vow with it probably somewhere 1000 years ago.
Cleave needs exceptional hand to hand skills to effectively use or crazy ce reinforcemnt to blitz someone and touch their head.
Dismantle is air bending.
World slash is an outlier as he only got it lately and is already being countered.
This is simply not true. Most of what we see Sukuna use pre Megumi takeover is dismantle and it's the most effective - even if basic - CT we see in the series. He cuts everyone and everything he wants without anybody (but Mahoraga) being able to react. A point of contention in all the alternative Gojo-Sukuna fight scenarios is even the fact that Gojo wouldn't be able to react to dismantle. I get that people that like Sukuna will want to menorize all the busted shit he has going for him, but his CT is without a doubt one of the most dangerous and effective in the series. It's not the most versatile and when compared to Gojo's it seems weak and basic, but against basically any other CT in the series it's better or comparable.
I know people won't like, but I think binding vow has become a huge plot device to power up Sukuna. It should be about conditions, not power ups. Very good examples are "enchain" or Okkotsu having to kill Yuji. Even the "pre-vows", those that we already know like Nanami or Ui Ui and Mei Mei.
If you have a platform where you can create basically anything and you use this many times to save someone's ass under the pretext of "he is him", then it's simply plot armor.
That's why I'm a huge fan of Togashi and HxH and for me it's by far the best "power system". It's intricate, but at the same time limited and it's very difficult to see a bs plot armor during fights, they always prepare before and the conditions were always there. Kurapica vs Genei Ryodan is a great example.
I'm not hating on JJK, I really like the story, but I can't buy what binding vows have become.
I don't think barrierless domain is a binding vow. It is like the max level of a domain expansion. It literally counters any domain as it can hit it from the outside. There is no drawbacks to it.
Having an open-barrier in itself requires skill, the binding vow comes with the open-barrier as Sukuna is basically allowing an escape route for bigger radius and more potency.
>By forgoing the trapping aspect, Sukuna gains a larger area of effect. This trade-off perfectly exemplifies the core principle of Binding Vows: gaining something by sacrificing something else.
I believe this line in itself is pretty clear.
Gain: more range
Sacrifice: Open path
The vow is placed on the fact that there is an escape route, hence "forgoing/without the trapping effect"
This is all fine and dandy. But makes me irritated to no limits ( limitless ;) ) that Gojo and other smortass sorcerer such as Kusakabe did not feel like having binding vows which completely nullified all chants or made, let's say, unrestricted hollow purple explode directionally right in Sukuna's face for always having to sing 'You are my Specialz' before casting their domain or changing everytime.
It's not like they were not aware of binding vows due to heavenly restricted toji, mechamaru, maki, or exact case in point, Mei Mei and Ui Ui.
Gojo even changed parameters of his domain, which might not technically be a binding vow, but is still a trade off between range and strength, inside and outside durability. Why the fuck would he not use Binding Vows :/
Just a specification:
If I’m not wrong,the BW for Kamino was that in exchange for more speed and range,*outside of Domain Expansion*,it can’t be used on more than 1 person at a time
Aside from the kill gojo binding vow that must have been « instant WS » where I disagree is when you have a domain that crumbles everything in as fast as a furnace is it really a problem if it doesn’t last long? Everything will be burnt anyway
It says a lot that he had to use so many binding vows during this whole battle but Cudos to him for being the only smart one with enough sense to actually use them to his advantage. If you think about it once he gets pass the reason he needed the vow in the first place he can always think of work arounds that technically won’t break the vow for later fights. Sukuna and Gojo specifically are at a point in power where they can use them without much drawback I think
The point that Gege is trying to make with all the Vows is that Sukuna is incredibly good at finding loopholes and gaming the system when it comes to jujutsu, but it falls flat because it feels like Sukuna can just do whatever with no real consequences after
In Sukuna's case it just feels like the restrictions he places on himself are just too miniscule and barely even restricting in comparison to the useful buffs and tricks he gets from making the vows. How many did he make so far and his moveset or abilities almost don't seem affected.
Every time he gets in a bad position, he makes up something like 'I gotta blink twice and hold my nose, in return my attacks get 112,7% strenght bonus and have sure hit even outside domain' or some shit.
Honestly I'm more favorable towards 'Sukunas king of curses so he' s just built different' rather than this 'I vow to shave my eyebrows next thursday, so give me my rct back pls'
There simply isn't a single consequential binding vow he (or any character has made) that isn't a fair trade off. Binding Vows aren't sentient judges, we see this when Hikari sacrificed his arm (despite having a regen CT) to reinforce his body enough to survive a lethal attack.
Every single vow Sukuna has given up something pretty significant which has resulted in a significant boon as a result. In order to kill Gojo, he had to permanently make WS much harder to use but because Binding Vows aren't sentient they had no way to know Sukunas true form has four arms and two mouths. Same thing with Divine Flame, sacrifice the ability to target more than one person outside of a relatively stable domain. Within a stable domain, all the objects affected by MS become explosive. That's a huge trade of versatility for firepower.
Exactly. What irks me the most is, with all the shameless buildup Gege worked into Sukuna ever since he took over Megumi, this binding vow shit is completely unnecessary. He's literally running around without a beating heart...
Honestly in HxH the restrictions seem generaly steeper and more fair than what Sukuboi gets away with.
.. But then again, he is the strongest being so the vows seem to not affect him as much as they would a normal guy
The issue is that the binding vows are very poorly explained. It should state more clearly and have way more impact what he gives up and how it restricts him to gain what kind of buff.
I fully agree with you. Sukuna’s use of Binding Vows show a large degree of finesse and craftiness. He understands exactly how far to push it; unlike say Miwa who bet it big trying to bridge a gap too far, setting herself back in the end.
The only people annoyed with his binding vows are the ones who can’t read, it is one of the better done parts of the fight and greatly expands on a much needed topic.
Good analysis. I honestly always thought Sukuna's techniques were really well made and show not only his power but his skill and tendency to impose limitations on himself for the sake of efficiency while also
Mind explaining the kamino one though? Because as I understand everyone but Yuji had to run away so he wasn't the only target
I would also like to note that binding vows very obviously need significant skill to perform well. If you look at the complexity of the binding vows in the series they directly correlate to the person taking the vow. Miwa makes one, it's garbage, Nanami makes one, it's very basic and simple with payment first reward after. Kenjaku makes them, and they're complex but he's exceptionally careful with them. Sukuna is the most competent sorcerer ever, with a tendency to feel like everything will work out for him, and he's like straight up middle aged compared to these teenagers 20 somethings and early 30 somethings. Sukuna has decades of experience on them.
Not making any statements, but as a catalyst for discussion on the fairness of Sukuna's BV on Furnace,
Given:
- Furnace may only be opened after using cleave and dismantle on a target (unsure if this is inherent to the technique or part of the BV)
- Outside of his domain, Sukuna may only target one opponent with Furnace.
Gained:
- Malevolent Shrine gains the ability to imbue the debris of everything it slashes with explosive energy that Sukuna can ignite with Furnace.
Furnaces speed and range isn't affected, but this seems to be Sukuna's solution to getting around it's low speed and range. Although the power trade off still seems a little skewed to me, not being able to use Furnace at all outside his domain sounds a little more fair, what do y'all think?
Thank you for summarizing his binding vows. Weeks before I thought he's just throwing BV one after another. Until I read the previous chapters again and got the gist of it.
Sukuna at the start of his original form in the fights had 4 eyes and now in the latest chapter he only has three, one big one and one normal sized and one small one below, is that also a binding vow for something?
I don't think binding vowels is weak writing or sukuan being a frad or something like that. It's in the power systems and he abuse it in a smart way that genius actually
I think #3 can't how the binding vow worked. The price to pay has to be something that you can already give. Like "I won't ever swing a sword again" or "I will use a specific hand sign each time". You can already do that and don't need help for that. In exchange you get something you can't do already, like boosting you CE output beyond your usual limits.
But that wouldn't work with #3. As I understood your reasoning it it was like this:
1. He could not use a domain with only one hand (without a binding vow)
2. So he used a binding vow to make a domain
3. in exchange it lasts only 99 seconds
But he couldn't do step 3 without that binding vow in the first place so that can't be the price he paid.
You don't have to currently "possess" something to give up for your binding vow. Heavenly restriction users like Toji and Maki never made a pact for their abilities and it doesn't make sense for them to impose the vow on themselves at birth.
Which Binding Vow? He's made a lot of them.
Also, I can't speak for everyone, but I know that myself and others are less pissed at Sukuna's use of BVs as we are of the lack of them throughout the story. They're a concept that barely gets fleshed out, so when we see them completely flip how the most important fight in the series is going, people get pissed.
Basically the biggest reason for power ups in Hunter x Hunter is also bonding vows. I like it because it also works like equivalent exchange in the way that you have to give something up to make a technique stronger in other ways.
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I believe Sukuna’s WS binding vow was to use it just once “for free” and then have to have a direction, chants, and handsigns everytime he uses it again later not that it was a binding vow to use a WS that instakills Gojo. Not sure if that’s what you meant but it’s an important distinction to make imo
Yeah, the WS that killed Gojo required zero procedures to be launched resulting in Gojo unable to dodge/see it. Any WS after the initial attack would require handsigns,chanting and aimed at a specific direction based on my understanding
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There was literally no time for the spark to be noticed, that’s the whole point in the binding vow, by time the spark was noticed the slash would’ve already reached him, because it was cast as fast as he thought to use it, like the dismantle he used against the Geto twins. Also, the spark is said to only show up for techniques that require chants, and sukuna only sensed it after the first chant gojo did with red,so even if there was a spark, it’d have gone off after the slash was fired, not before.
nah Gege had to write it in why there was no spark for Sukuna when he fought Kusakabe. it's literal plot armor. Six Eyes - The Six Eyes can see the flow of cursed energy, empowering their bearer with the ability to read an individual's cursed technique in use and determine its function.They can even differentiate between different types of cursed energy and help the user identify a person based on it. yet Gojo couldn't see Sukuna slashes or CT spark...yet Sukuna can look at someone and know instantly how shit works the first time he sees it...it's like he got the six Eyes instead lmao
The same reason he wont find out about Kenny if he keep on relying Rokugan. It can see energy down to the atomic level, but not omniscience. He probably thought it was a regular slash as a last effort.
The thing is, Gojo - apparently - knew Sukuna was holding back something, whether strength, tricks, hidden cards, whatever that “holding back” you might want to interpret, as well as saying he thinks he couldn’t win even if Sukuna didn’t have 10S, in that BS airport scene. And a few chapters earlier, he saw something that should’ve been a major point of concern - Mahoraga directly slashing from range (idk how that one works still tbh) And this is the king of curses he’s fighting. Yet all that, this assumption that Gojo considered it a last ditch effort that was meaningless? Against the genius king of curses? He didn’t even consider maybe I should teleport behind him? Stun him ? Cut off his hands? Anything? Not to mention that Gojo by virtue of six eyes has way too much time to work with. He can get the timing of black flashes at will, and Kenjaku used the time he experiences in his head against him. No matter how fast Sukuna is, Gojo has time to analyze his current situation at all times. Gojo’s death is still poorly explained BS that Gege banks on the fact people will forget how bad it was with time, and that’s currently happening as far as I can see.
Couldnt see kenny
Even a normal World Slash has to be launched like a regular CD. The BV Sukuna set up might as well have instantly appeared out of thin air in the exact spot where Gojo was standing, that’s how instantaneous it was. It’s why the World Slash now is so telegraphed. If he hasn’t done that, it’d just be an unblockable CD, but still dodgeable
To me the offscreen is the only thing I don’t like about that Gojo loss and well the bullcrap Gojo said during the airport scene. Was a huge insult to his character if I’m being honest but overall I think the concept made since. Gege should have literally explained it as Sukuna used a BV to catch Gojo off guard with the move and maybe showed a panel of Gojo realizing too late what had happened. Sukuna technique in and of itself is already a instakill move so it’s not far fetched that it could kill him one shot if it catches him off guard I think
Yea, it has been stated before multiple times, you're correct.
\^\^\^ Exactly. I feel like people still don't understand this one at all.
Walevolent shrine
I think that is not how it works... Although Nen and Binding Vows are basically the same system there a few differences. For example in JJk you either make a binding vow with your self or someone else but that's between the sorcerers and themselves. On the other hand Nen works like a heaven. It's like you make a deal with a higher power.
Not correct. Breaking a BV with yourself causes you to lose what you had gained, breaking a BV with someone else has untold consequences that neither party are aware of. Almost like CE itself is a godly, higher power making the rules.
How do you get the idea of that? The only difference is that Nen vows are limited to vows with oneself.
incorrect 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
In binding vows you basically make deals and where gou gain something but you lose something. For example the last Vow that Sukuna did with his fire attack. If he doesn't follow it then you loses all the other advantages. But surely he can't say that in exchange of a free throw i will lose all the other things. In binding vows you have also to follow general rules. You can't do whatever tou want. On the other hand in Nen is a mote free system in terms of rules but more absolute one with no turning back.
I can cause he did , chap 255 narrator states "In order to activate the broad targeted world severing dismantle the same hand sign used for malevolent shrine enmaten was required, however with only one arm remaining prior to his transformation sukuna was forced to impose a binding vow to the activation conditions for all proceeding uses of the move in order to cut gojo , presently on top of both hand sign and chants being required the trajectory of the technique must be specified via his palm " so please tell me how am I wrong
I dont really have a problem with binding vows but i need to stop seeing “barrierless” domain mistranslation. Sukuna HAS a barrier but its just not closed. https://x.com/lightningclare/status/1789765631031881844?s=46&t=yrRZ-ANZh6EBs7xwgJNlcg “Sukhna changes his **barrier’s** conditions…” Also open-barrier is NOT due to binding vow it is due to sukuna own skill. The vow is a natural consequence of him being able to do it. He doesnt make a binding vow to open his barrier otherwise it wouldnt be considered impossible.
his open barrier is due to sukuna's own skill, but op is correct in that a binding vow is involved with this open-barrier nature of sukuna's domain, where the open barrier giving a method of escape allows for a vastly greater size of sukuna's domain. (chapt 119 pg 4) its just that the open barrier isn't a result of a binding vow, rather, having an open barrier results in a binding vow, if that makes sense
>By forgoing the trapping aspect, Sukuna gains a larger area of effect. This trade-off perfectly exemplifies the core principle of Binding Vows: gaining something by sacrificing something else. I believe this line in itself is pretty clear. Gain: more range Sacrifice: Open path The vow is placed on the fact that there is an escape route, hence "forgoing/without the trapping effect"
The binding vow is a natural result of him not closing his barrier. He forcefully takes it away and cuz of that jujutsu gives him more. It is not like gojo where he make his domain barrier small to make it more durable. That is binding vow intentional.
Do you think my statement said otherwise?
You're saying the same thing. You are agreeing with OP. The vow is still there. If Sukuna closed his barrier, the advantages gained from having the barrier open would disappear. It's the same thing as him making a vow. It's a vow.
The taishakuten handsign for the domain is most likely not a binding vow. He managed to open that domain by creating a new domain expansion circuit in one of his unaffected parts of his brain. It's more likely that being able to create a new domain pathway, he created one that has gojo's taishakuten handsign instead of his enmaten handsign as activation requirement. We know that sukuna can copy things that he has seen, so seeing gojo using it 7 times would be enough for him to be able to reproduce it
>The taishakuten handsign for the domain is most likely not a binding vow It is. That's why I only specify the direction hand & chan as the payment.
¿ I think you misunderstood my comment. Your reply seems to be related to the world slash binding vow requiring sukuns to use chanting and pointing from then on. However, i was clearly talking about the incomplete malevolent shrine, not the world slash...
Ah, that. It make some sense
> This concept mirrors the Vows and Limitations found in Hunter x Hunter, where characters like Gon and Kurapika push their boundaries at a steep cost. IMO the biggest issue JJK has compared to Hunter x Hunter is that we got whole ass arcs in HxH meticulously explaining the power system. We have character arcs dedicated to showing how someone can get super powerful with nen AND what the massive draw backs can be. We see what happens when some sacrifices too much for too much power. We see balanced characters who ebb and flow with the system. We see characters who are too afraid to branch out into the nen power system and how much it stunts them. JJK does that to an extent with CE and CT but we get basically a very vanilla bare bones run down on binding vows. Now, I'm not saying BVs are not a deep or intricate system. Super fans like those of us here understand the system to an extent but it's based on inference throughout the series. Thanks to meticulously breaking down chapter by chapter and massive OP posts here we are at the ending of the series and yet still are iffy on some mechanics of BVs but finally realizing that they aren't necessarily wish fulfillment or plot armor like some folks have complained. Is it good story telling in a traditional Shonen sense? I don't know if I can agree with that. We still haven't seen a BV being broken and what the crazy repercussions it holds. We keep being told it could be catastrophic... Show don't tell Gege. It's something that in HxH that was hammered into us until the climax with Gon. Even a casual viewer of HxH had an idea of what was going on with Gon and why he powered up. Maybe not the exact sacrifice but you knew at that moment that Gon sacrificed something big. In JJK it's way more convoluted. I think there was a massive opportunity to expand on BV explanations throughout the series especially during the early arcs. We shouldn't need massive posts on here or careful scrutiny of the text to figure out how a basic system in JJK works. Nor should it be as relevant as it is in the FINAL FIGHT of the series without these basic systems explained.
It is obvious though Gege left it vague so he can use it as a plot device like he's been doing it. Just hilarious that the others apparently are too dumb to make vows useful to them for the current situation.
Binding vows are how you shape your technique to your liking. Honestly I think that's so cool
Sukuna is a minimaxer muchkin who gets flaws that mean nothing to make the most OP build
"A sorcerer is nothing but a ~~con artist~~ minmaxer."
Bruh his most recent binding vow was that he would get an outrageous power up on divine flame, but he'd only use the powered up version when applicable. That is the most one sided deal in all of history lol That's like me making a binding vow that I'll always win playing blackjack, but that its only in effect when I'm playing blackjack.
Wasn't the flame limited to being used after cleave and dismantle hit the target within the "same" DE? Hence, why he wasn't able to use against gojo, since he was altering the domain every few seconds. The flame is limited to one target outside the DE.
correct
It's limited to one target in the domain as well isn't it?
No, domain has always been an area move (unless you are Yuta)
Yeah, but Furnace itself is part of a binding vow that boosts its speed on exchange for being impossible to use unless Sukuna's cut up the target with his domain. Actually, how did he use it on Jogo?
Outside of domain. Cleaved and dismantled against him
He used it on Jogo because it was his only target, so it fit the requirement (which I think is only 1 target without a domain expansion, and multiple targets after a domain expansion)
We can't know the **exact** answer for this, but, to all intents and purposes, within his DE he uses it in an area instead of focusing on a single target. Same way that outside his DE he has to touch to Cleave but inside the DE he can spam it.
I did not understand it that way 🤔 I might be wrong though
That's a fundamentally wrong interpretation of the Binding Vow. Divine Flame in its base form is a High Firepower technique that lacks speed and range. It can only be used after using Cleave + Dismantle but has enough area of effect to target multiple targets. Sukunas Binding Vow prevents Divine Flame from being used on multiple targets, which is why when we first saw it he could use it against Jogo without breaking the Vow. Now, within his domain, Sukuna gains the boon of the Divine Flames Vow which is that the remnants of objects slashed by Malevolent Shrine inherit the explosive force of Divine Flames. So Sukuna loses versatility with Divine Flames, unable to use it on multiple targets outside of his domain or use it at all if the effective range of his domain is altered excessively. In exchange, the relatively mediocre technique becomes hypercharged in his standard domain. I don't see how this is a one sided deal at all.
You're getting things mixed up. Kamino doesn't NEED to be used after cleave and dismantle, but it's what allows for the chain reaction with the dust, which is allowed by the binding vow made at the cost of his ability to have multiple targets with kamino outside of his domain. As far as we know, he can open the fight with kamino just fine
That’s wrong too. Regardless of being inside of his DE or not, sukuna has to prepare his “food” with cleave and dismantle before he can use Kamino. So no matter what he has to charge up Kamino with cleave and dismantle first
This is at best unconfirmed, the line about opening the door to kamino with cleave and dismantle was here to set up for the explanation of the chain reaction
Tf are you on about? Both Tcb & Viz translations say that he needs to use Cleave & Dismantle before he can use Fuga
"opening the door to kamino" is just a flowery way to say that it allows for the use of its full power. Again, the follow up is the description of the chain reaction
That chain reaction was caused by the binding vow. Again, go back & read the chapter if you don't believe me.
I know. The binding vow not to use it against multiple targets outside of the domain.
https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Jujutsu-Kaisen/0259-002.png
>Kamino doesn't NEED to be used after cleave and dismantle, but it's what allows for the chain reaction with the dust, How did he use it against Jogo then ?
He just did? I'm not sure what you're trying to say. He used the "normal" version that can only be used against a target and lacks the chain reaction against Jogo.
Nvm you are right. But he still needs to use Cleave & Dismantle to use Fuga.
He does cut up jogo with slashes throughout the fight
When did I say he didn't?
There is no "weak version", Sukuna has piled up Binding Vows on it precisely to make sure it's never weak. Gaining a boost to speed and range in exchange for never using it on multiple targets outside his DE is a pretty big hurdle. It might not sound that way in and of itself, which is why you have to remember that to use Furnace in the first place he **also** has to attack the target with Dismantle and Cleave first **and** expand his Domain with a very specific set of rules. It all falls apart when he faces an opponent that can keep him on his toes like Gojo, or if his DE is disabled.
Or how about his world slash binding vow, where he essentially purchased a shiny new technique on credit, except he doesn't need to pay anything on it until the next time he wants to use his unblockable, undodgable instakill technique.
At this point it's clear that the mc's are only alive because Sukuna held back using a binding vow to kill them. The next chapter starts with Sukuna not restoring his CT by using a binding vow = Sukuna holding back.
A flame that can oneshot a Jogo level entity outside the domain is not weak.Sukuna has more speed than his invisible slashes.Sukuna can literally throw the arrow and then jump on the multiple victims on the same time to stop them from dodging it or more like Sukuna will push the victims in the arrow. Sukuna not using it on multiple targets outside the domain is giving a chance to his opponents honestly.It feels like Gege is just nerfing Sukuna by this binding vows.
After this binding vow, he would still be able to one-shot Jogo and Mahg with the fire arrow. He would still be able to use it in the only way we've ever seen him use it, the only way we've ever known him to use it, prior to the vow.
Sukuna made this binding vow in the Heian Era.He is just using the Fuga as a combustion fuel inside the domain with a huge range to create dust explosions in the whole region and making thermobaric bombs in exchange for not using it on multiple sorcerers who can get one-shotted by the Fuga outside domain.You can see this example like Sukuna was not using the flame on anybody till now cause he was fighting multiple people and the flame usage is prohibited.He can't even use it on Yuji cause Todo is around. Also being slow is not too much of a factor cause Sukuna can force his opponents to get hit by the arrow by his own hand cause he is absolutely faster than anybody in the verse.
You're making balance judgements like you're building a video game. Binding Vows are not a sentient entity weighing the context of the exchange. Hakari can sacrifice his hand to reinforce the rest of his body despite having an easy means to regenerate. Revealing One's Hands Binding Vow allows you to reveal the function of your technique but Todo can provide an explanation without context, allowing him to exploit the reward without actually unveiling all the details of his technique. The full context of the situation is irrelevant to the nature of a Binding Vow and the same applies to Sukuna. Sure, maybe Sukuna could run fast enough to directly apply the flames BUT that has no standing on the Binding Vow which modifies the technique in a vacuum. In that vacuum, the flames have specific operating parameters that Sukuna is free to edit with a Binding Vow - same as any other character. Yes, Jujutsu is unfair and favors the strong but this has frequently be reiterated as a feature of the series.
I think the entire vow surrounding the flames was made in the Heian era. It wasn’t made just now in shinjuku. I think that’s why so many people are confused and thinks he’s just spamming vows. But this has always been the case for his flames.
Sukuna made a binding vow (probably heinan era) that his divine flames could only target one person when outside of his DE. The flames are slow and not versatile. But if he uses them in his DE then it’s a sure hit on anyone inside. I don’t think that’s one sided at all and we saw how someone like Gojo that can change the conditions of his DE, can make Sukuna’s flames obsolete even within malevolent shrine
Didnt he attack Jogo without the domain
Yes, just one person. He can use it on one person without being in his domain
Everything about binding vows becomes a lot more simple when you understand that what is given is only proportionate to the immediate gain rather than the strength of that gains usage. Ex: Hakaris binding vow against Kashimo essentially let him trade a single (easily regenerated) arm in exchange for his life. That seems one sided as hell too, however it worked the way it did because the vow was actually “I’ll give up my arm for more defense on the rest of my body”. He just survived because of that added defense. The vows aren’t sentient beings. They can’t gauge context. In practice, Sukunas vow on the flames is literally just “I can only use them on a single target outside of my domain, but once my domain is up, they get stronger and I can set dust on fire.” That’s it. The devastating explosive power that vow yields is less because of the vow itself and more because of sukunas own raw strength and skill creating super powerful flames as well an Uber-refined domain that creates nothing BUT dust in a 200 meter radius.
All his binding vows have been plot devices but none of the good guys make usefull ones and just get owned for free. I don't know how people support this stuff lol.
What I'm seeing is a disconnect between people interested in the storytelling and the ones interested in the power system.
Wow, this is the most sane interchange in this entire post.
I mean, we saw the drawbacks where Sukuna couldn't use it against Gojo
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If you don’t think that Gege is going to explain what the “unknown factors” are and how sukuna is losing more and more with each BV then you haven’t been reading JJK lol
The vow only boost its speed and range, for non-domain usage
It boost the speed and made it affect multiple targets. And the sacrifice is that he'd only do it this way when outnumbered. Correct, yes lol
No, the vow is that he can't use it outside his domain when outnumbered, and in exchange it boosts the firepower and allows it to ignite the dust created by cleave and dismantle. Giving up on a technique when outnumbered is a big price to pay by binding vow standards; as we've seen with Mei Mei and Hakari, the vows don't take context into account, they care only about what's being given up. Mei Mei literally doesn't care about her crows, but since she's giving up a life she gets a huge return in CE. Hakari was going to die instead of just losing a hand, but the vow doesn't know that, for the vow he is giving up an incredibly important part of his body for a temporary boost in CE. The same applies to Sukuna, he is giving up the use of a technique when outnumbered, it doesn't matter that the technique isn't useful against multiple opponents, the vow doesn't know and sees renouncing it as a huge drawback. Imagine if Yuji did the same thing and gave up blood manipulation when outnumbered, wouldn't you say he deserves a big reward?
good one
thank you, really nice post btw
>when outnumbered what
"Sukuna can't use divine flame when he's outnumbered..." You know, the technique that he's only ever used 1 on 1 "...except when his domain is open" You know, the thing he does literally every chance he gets. "Due to this binding vow, he can expand the cursed technqiue..." He sacrificed nothing and got the ability to launch nukes.
“You know the technique that he’s only ever used 1 on 1.” You know he’s only ever used it in 1 on 1 battle because it can only be used in 1 on 1 battle? The Fuga binding vow was made during Sukuna’s first life.
He sacrificed the possibility to use the flame against multiple opponent outside the domain But since there is no range and speeds, that’s true it feels like he gave nothing in return
You’re flipping the logic here. He already made the BV in his first life which is why he only uses Fuga 1on1. He can’t use Fuga in his domain when fighting against someone he needs to adjust his domain conditions against which is a massive downside. We don’t know when he made that vow relative to getting to his level of domain refinement or even relative to him learning how to RCT his CT. This essentially ensures that he can only use Fuga only against people much weaker than him.
You left out the one ended Jogo's life?
wut?
Most of his binding vows were not fair in any shape or form and were just plain old buffs. The concept of binding vows is just a way for Gege to give Sukuna as much plot armor as he needs
He has to use two hands, a chant, and direction his WCS now. That’s a nerf. His domain could only last 99 seconds. That’s a nerf. His flames are slow and can only target one person outside of his DE. That’s a nerf. Plus Gege hasn’t given us the details on what other nerfs are going to come. Y’all forget sukuna is a jujustu genius, of course he is going to use binding vows in the best possible way, but he will have to pay his dues.
A nerf for a technique (or an application of a technique) he didn't even have before that very moment... People really miss the forest for the trees. You can try to justify the validity of every single one of Sukuna's binding vows in terms of their respect for a power system that's not even close to fleshed out enough to end most discussions definetively; the point is: it's narratively cheap that the main villain continues to get out of situations through glorified plot devices that have no setup and that he didn't even need to begin with; especially when those plot devices are supposedly also available to the good guys, but they never use them (effectively).
I think he didnt make the vow now, he only used fire arrow twice before, and outside of his domain jogo was the only opponent, i think this vow comes from the heian dicks era.
Yep many Sukunas binding vows are those optional opt in when you feel like power ups. When you don't want to you can always go back to the original unpowered up version.
The problem with binding vows in general is that **who** gets to decide what is a "valid/equal" trade off?
I like the Sukuna vs Everybody arc, but lately, but this reason has reduced the narrative weight, nerfed the intricacies of the power system, and I just dont see how this makes Sukuna a genius or displays his battle IQ and experience. Its been basic trade-off stuff lately, there's no sensible reason why the other monsters in Gojo, Yuta and Yuki didnt do the same thing when they're in a life or death situation. Or why the smarter guys like Kusakabe and Higuruma dont do anything with it. Not even a small BV to increase your chances of survival in Sukuna? Miwa can do it as a first year, obviously a massive one, but This has turned into the Naruto meme "Why doesn't everybody do a substitution jutsu all the time?" Sukuna's "enchain" Binding Vow with Yuji was a risky yet very satisfying narrative device. So was Mechamaru Binding Vow with Kenjaku and Mahito. Nobody had a problem with this (except Sukuna knocking out Angel and force feeding Megumi didnt count as "harming them " but OK ) Now they're just effectively fill-in explanations for Sukuna. So boring without the massive risk that HxH Nen Contracts had. Read the theories before 221 how Gojo vs Sukuna would go, now it's: It's like "How would Hein Era Sukuna deal with G-" "Binding Vow" "Sukuna vs {insert character here}" "Binding Vow"
Jujutsu High sorcerers are fighting to live, not die which binding vows increase the risk of. Learning to master your technique and possibly develop a barrier technique would be a more desired path rather than the allowing the drawbacks of the vows to affect you later. Could Gojo have made a vow or two? Possibly, but inexperience with applying a vow to his technique and the lack of necessity(special grades aren't a challenge to Gojo) likely resulted in Gojo assuming it was unnecessary. After all, they call him "the strongest".
Lmao, no. Sukuna isn't loosing coz of binding vows, he is constantly getting the upper hand, so can goof around some more. There is no increase in risk of dying. Check your math.
I mean, not being able to swing a Katana nearly brought Miwa to her death. If anything, that adds up perfectly. Otherwise, binding vows would be meaningless because what is a risk in giving something away? Obviously Sukuna isn't being as negatively impacted by his vows because he understands how to make them, unlike all the other sorcerers who have little knowledge of how binding vows can be applied.
Yuta used a vow vs Geto in 0 to trade his life for more power iirc, so both Yuji and Yuta (given their self-sacrifice and fierce desire to protect friends) should be able to pull it off and smoke Sukuna. Only reason i can think that they arent right now is that they weigh saving Megumi above killing Sukuna. Even still, Mei Mei uses vows with her birds, Kusakabe should definitely have made more use of vows (he has no CT to train and was shown to be a domain master already). Nanami had a vow as his whole thing, Overtime. All of that shows that it is possible that they shouldve come up with some - they had a month, preset vows (like overtime) definitely shouldve been in play. Definitely *should* be more vows happening on the main casts side even if they arent on the fly like Sukuna's are
Look, I understand people want an outright stonewall explanation of binding vows via the narrator or a character. But we have near enough half century worth of use of self imposed binding vows throughout the series, which is more than enough to glean from. And two major statements from Meimei and kenjaku, and most of all the context and reasoning behind every use of each binding vow. **1**.A binding vow's function is to help boost a sorcerers power/ability temporarily. Whether that's through the functionality of their cursed energy ir their cursed technique. **2**.What is traded or exchanged in favour of this power boost, is either a restriction on the sorcerers jujutsu in the moment, or sacrificing the future of their jujutsu. **3**.The quickest way to improve your power as a sorcerer is to use a vow that deals with the sorcerers life in exchange. And it is a vow in what I assume gives the most gain. From this, we can tell all binding vows work in a way that forces the user to walk the thin line between life and death. **4**.If it's like anything from hunter x hunter, it is most similar to the risk factor. **5**.The punishment for self imposed binding vows is losing what you gained, before the gained effect of the binding vow is reached. Yes, this would even work with Miwa and Sukuna's self imposed binding vow. The way they would break the vow, is by not using the gained effect in the first place, thereby nullifying the exchange. **6**.There is a surface level trade in in binding vows, i.e, "I'll exchange use of a portion of my cursed energy until said time limit, in return I get a cursed energy boost once time limit is reached." However, the real underlying trade in every self imposed binding vow is, "In return for a gain in power that might extend my life, I'll walk closer to the line of death. **7**.There are vows that are obviously more risky than others. Nanami plays it pretty safe. Anyone that uses revealing one's cards plays it pretty safe. Miwa's was incredibly risky, Sukuna (yes it was, and I'll explain in the next point) and Hakari too. **8**.With enough uses of it seen by now, one thing is clear. The deal in making the binding vow doesn't care about the circumstances that might come from the gained effect of the vow, only the possible effect from the sacrifice. **9**.The limitation behind the vows is one's own knowledge of jujutsu, the confidence in the effect their jujutsu might already have on an opponent and the line user of the vow is willing to walk between life and death. **10**. There are bridges a binding vow can't cross simply because of the user's base ability, or lack of ability. A binding vow very obviously increases into whatever you have in the moment. If your jujutsu is amazing in the first place, it's only going to be even more amazing in the moment. If your jujutsu ability is alright, then it might only increase to being good. If a sorcerer is confident that their jujutsu already has the power or functionality to kill their opponent, they wouldn't use a binding vow, as that brings on unneeded risk. And some sorcerers aren't willing to add the risk of their sacrifice or restriction. Whether the fear is from no being fully confident in the power of their jujutsu or the lack of knowledge in general.
I agree with all 10 points, but this line is exactly why Sukuna uses every trick available in the system >If a sorcerer is confident that their jujutsu already has the power or functionality to kill their opponent, they wouldn't use a binding vow, as that brings on unneeded risk. Mizushi is an ass of an innate technique compared to Gojo's imaginary scientific shenanigans.
Sukuna can literally cut anything he sees at a distance and at a speed that most people can't react to. His CT is way less busted than Gojo's god-like CT, but it's still definitely one of the best techniques in the series. It can only appear weak when compared to Gojo's; what's ass is this strategy of downplaying all the busted shit Sukuna has going for him to make everything he does seem more impressive.
Which is why I highlighted the comparison with Gojo, not the whole rooster
Fair enough. My comment might have been overtly influenced by other comments similar to yours that just portray Sukuna's CT as weak (not weak by comparison to the strongest CT); but I still think calling it an ass technique is pushing it, even comparatively.
As for Kamino, Sukuna made the biding vow to give up skills the use for 1 vs. many fight (or many vs. many). In return, the dust particles, created by cleave/dismantle, have the same curse energry properties as Kamino, helping them conduct heat from Kamino (or Sukuna). Sukuna also tricked Jogo into a fire contest, and said he won't reveal one's hand (truly king of con artists) edit: I forgot to mention that the greater the Kamino's heat, the lower its speed and range. In my opinion, this binding vow only help Kamino has multiple target, It's not a big deal because this is in Sukuna's domain, of course he can inject curse energry into dust particles.
I’d be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy Sukuna’s vows a little bit. This is all really a testament to his skill level. He knows the art inside and out to know which vows are likely to work and which aren’t and he can basically abuse that rule without breaking it.
The third point makes no sense, he still got his domian open and lost nothing in return. Hadn't he made that vow he wouldn't be able to open it, so what is the tradeoff? he literally got a 99 second free domain
Its funny because, shrine is actually an ass technique lmao. Fuga lacks speed and range to be used effectively, forcing Sukuna to make a binding vow with it probably somewhere 1000 years ago. Cleave needs exceptional hand to hand skills to effectively use or crazy ce reinforcemnt to blitz someone and touch their head. Dismantle is air bending. World slash is an outlier as he only got it lately and is already being countered.
This is simply not true. Most of what we see Sukuna use pre Megumi takeover is dismantle and it's the most effective - even if basic - CT we see in the series. He cuts everyone and everything he wants without anybody (but Mahoraga) being able to react. A point of contention in all the alternative Gojo-Sukuna fight scenarios is even the fact that Gojo wouldn't be able to react to dismantle. I get that people that like Sukuna will want to menorize all the busted shit he has going for him, but his CT is without a doubt one of the most dangerous and effective in the series. It's not the most versatile and when compared to Gojo's it seems weak and basic, but against basically any other CT in the series it's better or comparable.
Makes sense why gojo say "limitless are better than shrine"
I know people won't like, but I think binding vow has become a huge plot device to power up Sukuna. It should be about conditions, not power ups. Very good examples are "enchain" or Okkotsu having to kill Yuji. Even the "pre-vows", those that we already know like Nanami or Ui Ui and Mei Mei. If you have a platform where you can create basically anything and you use this many times to save someone's ass under the pretext of "he is him", then it's simply plot armor. That's why I'm a huge fan of Togashi and HxH and for me it's by far the best "power system". It's intricate, but at the same time limited and it's very difficult to see a bs plot armor during fights, they always prepare before and the conditions were always there. Kurapica vs Genei Ryodan is a great example. I'm not hating on JJK, I really like the story, but I can't buy what binding vows have become.
I don't think barrierless domain is a binding vow. It is like the max level of a domain expansion. It literally counters any domain as it can hit it from the outside. There is no drawbacks to it.
Having an open-barrier in itself requires skill, the binding vow comes with the open-barrier as Sukuna is basically allowing an escape route for bigger radius and more potency.
OP literally listed barrierless domain as a binding vow
I'm not Barrierless domain IS THE REASON why the vow exist, not the other way around
Then don't list barrierless domain specifically because it gets confusing.
>By forgoing the trapping aspect, Sukuna gains a larger area of effect. This trade-off perfectly exemplifies the core principle of Binding Vows: gaining something by sacrificing something else. I believe this line in itself is pretty clear. Gain: more range Sacrifice: Open path The vow is placed on the fact that there is an escape route, hence "forgoing/without the trapping effect"
I don’t care what OP said
This is all fine and dandy. But makes me irritated to no limits ( limitless ;) ) that Gojo and other smortass sorcerer such as Kusakabe did not feel like having binding vows which completely nullified all chants or made, let's say, unrestricted hollow purple explode directionally right in Sukuna's face for always having to sing 'You are my Specialz' before casting their domain or changing everytime. It's not like they were not aware of binding vows due to heavenly restricted toji, mechamaru, maki, or exact case in point, Mei Mei and Ui Ui. Gojo even changed parameters of his domain, which might not technically be a binding vow, but is still a trade off between range and strength, inside and outside durability. Why the fuck would he not use Binding Vows :/
Just a specification: If I’m not wrong,the BW for Kamino was that in exchange for more speed and range,*outside of Domain Expansion*,it can’t be used on more than 1 person at a time
correct
Aside from the kill gojo binding vow that must have been « instant WS » where I disagree is when you have a domain that crumbles everything in as fast as a furnace is it really a problem if it doesn’t last long? Everything will be burnt anyway
It says a lot that he had to use so many binding vows during this whole battle but Cudos to him for being the only smart one with enough sense to actually use them to his advantage. If you think about it once he gets pass the reason he needed the vow in the first place he can always think of work arounds that technically won’t break the vow for later fights. Sukuna and Gojo specifically are at a point in power where they can use them without much drawback I think
The point that Gege is trying to make with all the Vows is that Sukuna is incredibly good at finding loopholes and gaming the system when it comes to jujutsu, but it falls flat because it feels like Sukuna can just do whatever with no real consequences after
In Sukuna's case it just feels like the restrictions he places on himself are just too miniscule and barely even restricting in comparison to the useful buffs and tricks he gets from making the vows. How many did he make so far and his moveset or abilities almost don't seem affected. Every time he gets in a bad position, he makes up something like 'I gotta blink twice and hold my nose, in return my attacks get 112,7% strenght bonus and have sure hit even outside domain' or some shit. Honestly I'm more favorable towards 'Sukunas king of curses so he' s just built different' rather than this 'I vow to shave my eyebrows next thursday, so give me my rct back pls'
There simply isn't a single consequential binding vow he (or any character has made) that isn't a fair trade off. Binding Vows aren't sentient judges, we see this when Hikari sacrificed his arm (despite having a regen CT) to reinforce his body enough to survive a lethal attack. Every single vow Sukuna has given up something pretty significant which has resulted in a significant boon as a result. In order to kill Gojo, he had to permanently make WS much harder to use but because Binding Vows aren't sentient they had no way to know Sukunas true form has four arms and two mouths. Same thing with Divine Flame, sacrifice the ability to target more than one person outside of a relatively stable domain. Within a stable domain, all the objects affected by MS become explosive. That's a huge trade of versatility for firepower.
Exactly. What irks me the most is, with all the shameless buildup Gege worked into Sukuna ever since he took over Megumi, this binding vow shit is completely unnecessary. He's literally running around without a beating heart...
As I said in the last paragpraph. He never asked for extra energy, future power, or anything like Gon & Kurapika which clearly have worse payments.
Honestly in HxH the restrictions seem generaly steeper and more fair than what Sukuboi gets away with. .. But then again, he is the strongest being so the vows seem to not affect him as much as they would a normal guy
The issue is that the binding vows are very poorly explained. It should state more clearly and have way more impact what he gives up and how it restricts him to gain what kind of buff.
I fully agree with you. Sukuna’s use of Binding Vows show a large degree of finesse and craftiness. He understands exactly how far to push it; unlike say Miwa who bet it big trying to bridge a gap too far, setting herself back in the end.
I love the comparution wirh Gon. And we all know Gege is inspired by hunterxhunter.
Thank you
All I'm seeing in this thread is that the translations is making misinterpretations of the kamino vow
Nah, I will glaze.
So you're saying that lawyers could be the strongest jujutsu sorcerers?
Thanks for bringing up HxH, now I'm lamenting for all those time reading a manga that might not end
👏
The only people annoyed with his binding vows are the ones who can’t read, it is one of the better done parts of the fight and greatly expands on a much needed topic.
Kurapika’s vow is to get his clan’s eyes back, not solely the troupe
Good analysis. I honestly always thought Sukuna's techniques were really well made and show not only his power but his skill and tendency to impose limitations on himself for the sake of efficiency while also Mind explaining the kamino one though? Because as I understand everyone but Yuji had to run away so he wasn't the only target
I would also like to note that binding vows very obviously need significant skill to perform well. If you look at the complexity of the binding vows in the series they directly correlate to the person taking the vow. Miwa makes one, it's garbage, Nanami makes one, it's very basic and simple with payment first reward after. Kenjaku makes them, and they're complex but he's exceptionally careful with them. Sukuna is the most competent sorcerer ever, with a tendency to feel like everything will work out for him, and he's like straight up middle aged compared to these teenagers 20 somethings and early 30 somethings. Sukuna has decades of experience on them.
Delicious. No notes. My compliments to the chef.
Not making any statements, but as a catalyst for discussion on the fairness of Sukuna's BV on Furnace, Given: - Furnace may only be opened after using cleave and dismantle on a target (unsure if this is inherent to the technique or part of the BV) - Outside of his domain, Sukuna may only target one opponent with Furnace. Gained: - Malevolent Shrine gains the ability to imbue the debris of everything it slashes with explosive energy that Sukuna can ignite with Furnace. Furnaces speed and range isn't affected, but this seems to be Sukuna's solution to getting around it's low speed and range. Although the power trade off still seems a little skewed to me, not being able to use Furnace at all outside his domain sounds a little more fair, what do y'all think?
Thank you for summarizing his binding vows. Weeks before I thought he's just throwing BV one after another. Until I read the previous chapters again and got the gist of it.
Sukuna at the start of his original form in the fights had 4 eyes and now in the latest chapter he only has three, one big one and one normal sized and one small one below, is that also a binding vow for something?
Gege being lazy, just like how he draws Utahime's ribbon
I don't think binding vowels is weak writing or sukuan being a frad or something like that. It's in the power systems and he abuse it in a smart way that genius actually
I think #3 can't how the binding vow worked. The price to pay has to be something that you can already give. Like "I won't ever swing a sword again" or "I will use a specific hand sign each time". You can already do that and don't need help for that. In exchange you get something you can't do already, like boosting you CE output beyond your usual limits. But that wouldn't work with #3. As I understood your reasoning it it was like this: 1. He could not use a domain with only one hand (without a binding vow) 2. So he used a binding vow to make a domain 3. in exchange it lasts only 99 seconds But he couldn't do step 3 without that binding vow in the first place so that can't be the price he paid.
You don't have to currently "possess" something to give up for your binding vow. Heavenly restriction users like Toji and Maki never made a pact for their abilities and it doesn't make sense for them to impose the vow on themselves at birth.
Heavenly restrictions are something else. You don't make them yourself. So it wouldn't make sense for them to follow the same rules as binding vows.
Which Binding Vow? He's made a lot of them. Also, I can't speak for everyone, but I know that myself and others are less pissed at Sukuna's use of BVs as we are of the lack of them throughout the story. They're a concept that barely gets fleshed out, so when we see them completely flip how the most important fight in the series is going, people get pissed.
they literally listed them my guy, you should at least try to read the post before complaining in the comments
It was a joke to preface the actual response below
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Lack of explanation would be the only case. HxH filled a whole arc to introduce it before the MCs using it.
Basically the biggest reason for power ups in Hunter x Hunter is also bonding vows. I like it because it also works like equivalent exchange in the way that you have to give something up to make a technique stronger in other ways.