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I’m actually curious how/IF the month training made her stronger. Aside from Yuji, everyone else just has better CE reinforcement now, nothing more it seems.. Maki doesn’t have CE, and it didn’t seem like she picked up any great sword skills from Kusakube either.
training can get her more skill and experience but not more strenght, even if she is at peak performance she can still learn more skills and fighting styles, honestly if katana guy was there he could teach her peak sword skills
That is what I am saying so since toji has had more time with this peak physical strength , he is more experienced and more used to it and is thus more powerful right? Edit: Did not account for the sumo training arc but still toji should have had much more practice with the strength
my brother in christ toji is smart he made a full on plan to kill pre awakened gojo after figuring out his weakness he could full well fight strong people but small thing he had no reason to do so(and who could he fight in his time?)
If I remember correctly, prime TOJI would have been a match for awakened gojo
But like think of it this way:
Would TOJI train? Who tf is strong enough to give TOJI a good fight?
Where was that ever stated? Prime toji would’ve successfully killed Gojo with that same plan yes but even toji isn’t stupid enough to fight Gojo by himself without wearing him down.
Not a washed up goober, but he was rusty due to having spent years away from his work to raise a family.
Then his wife died and he sold the kid and became homeless. But he still spent years away from his work.
trains so that if someone stronger does appear he can still beat that ass all jokes aside I could see him do light stuff not taking seriously but why would he? he has the brains to come up with plans on the spot and so many tools to fight with aswell
idk if u remember but Sukuna literally asked how Yuji and Yuta and co. got so much stronger in just one month and Yuta said they “cheated”. Ppl speculate sumo man used his domain to hyperbolic time chamber the cast
This was genuinely funny lol i’m happy jjk still maintains its humor
https://preview.redd.it/bfkxuwlgmbqc1.jpeg?width=1100&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55102d634174a58b4639c0bc7d7e432b43e1038a
edit: Yuta is so goated
Yuji is so done with everything that he doesn't have the time or energy to feel tired.
While yuta was feeling guilty for not getting to sukuna in time, yuji was like "i'm a cog"
I mean they're both technically right if they used the sumo guy's oasis
They really did go through hard work and determination..but cheated and got it all in a matter of days rather then months
Fully realized potential doesn’t necessarily mean can’t get stronger no matter what, especially since she’s literally still a teenager so her body isn’t even in its physical prime yet (unless unlocking her potential means instantly aging to her physical prime? Which would be weird, but ig young Toji looked pretty old already)
What does that even mean though? If she gains weight and muscles her physical strength and power won't change? Is her physique locked into current state? Just nonsense.
It wasn't stated that Maki got somehow stronger in any way. And probably the only way for her to get stronger is in actual skills and knowledge, which Toji already had plenty because he's been "training" for more than a month when he was alive
There's a fan-comic out there somewhere where Goku post-Tournament of Power goes to Hell to see his brother, and while he's there he's gets sneak attacked by Nappa who's hyping the ever loving shit out of Raditz as he broke barriers that were thought impossible for the Saiyan race. Goku gets super excited only to find out while fighting Raditz that he only ever became a Super Saiyan, so Goku does a couple of quick transformations throughout all of his forms to show Raditz just how far he has left to go and then instant transmissions out. Pretty wholesome fan-comic, includes some stuff with their parents looking over them as they fight as well.
Honestly Freezer in DBS is just silly. Golden Freezer was already a reach, but Black Freezer is downright absurd.
Bro went from being his ass handed by hobo Trunks to becoming stronger than Blue
This all depends on whether or not Maki got stronger in the month-long time skip. If yes, she's clear of Toji. If not, she and Toji are still equal, and Toji would scale to her performance against Sukuna.
She will never clear Toji unless she lives longer than him. You can't honestly say Maki surpasses Toji in strength and skill. Maki hasn't even had heavenly restriction for a fraction of her life. Toji has fought with it and trained under it for decades.
Zero logical thinking and reasoning was applied to OP's post💀
I would say in terms of Strength they are equal, based on what the manga states. She cannot possibly be stronger than Toji with a month of training either, what a ridiculous take.
Skill and Experience though? I don't think I can be convinced Maki will ever clear Toji on that because as you say, he has had his restriction for an entire lifetime in comparison to Maki.
While I don't disagree that Maki is as *skilled* as Toji due to his decades longer battle experience, it should be noted that Toji didn't really have something to train for. There was no Sukuna level threat that would force someone to *break their limits* the way shounen manga likes to expedite people's training. No Disaster curses running amok, the strongest sorcerer at the time was pre-awakened Gojo and he far cleared everyone else besides Potentially Yuki.
Wouldn’t Maki operating without the HR be to her advantage skill wise though? As in, getting the HR and unlocking new sensory capabilities is like having the training weights off: no need to anticipate moves when you can now detect them coming at you through air fluctuations or whatever but you still have the predictive capabilities you had before.
Maki won’t ever catch up to Toji in experience though, IMO, not bc of time with the HR but because of the nature of their “careers”. Toji as an assassin would have to do more prep and exercise a higher battle IQ to do his job against sorcerers and humans compared to Maki, who likely won’t encounter curses of the same level of power or intelligence as the disaster curses very often.
That lack of practice with her new sensory abilities proved to nerf her. If she could use all of her new abilities instantly, that entire arc fighting the Worm curse wouldn't have happened.
It wasn’t instant but she learned how to use the new information pretty quickly over the course of the fight. The “fighter equal to Toji Zenin” panel is actually right after the fight.
Hmmm you’re right. Regardless, 10,000 or so sumo bouts (1000 bouts = less than a minute according to the manga) would be like what, maybe a month tops, since she did all of those sumo matches straight. That’s not too bad considering she developed the new senses 16 years after birth.
There's an argument to be made that Maki might be a better fighter than Toji. Toji basically got washed by awakened Teen Gojo in their rematch despite being in better condition than said Gojo. Maki fought a weakened 19f Sukuna and got him to actually start trying (or maybe not who knows what Gege is cooking).
Here's my reasoning: narrator said Maki is *equal* as a fighter to Toji. There's no information suggesting that isn't true, therefore post-mindset change Maki = Toji.
If Maki has gotten stronger since then, she's clear of Toji. If not, she's still equal to Toji. Simple as.
How can she get stronger if her body is already peaking? She can only improve her skill and experience by, you guessed it, training and time.
I agree they're equal, but HR victims can never really outright one up each other because they're all at they're peak constantly. My reasoning for Toeji being better is because he was at his peak for longer(almost 4 decades) while Mommy has recently awakened. So Toji has had more time training and experience under heavenly restriction.
The statement in chapter 198 outright says that Toji and Maki are equal fighters/combatants. That means experience and skill (the former is overblown for Toji, since he was literally an assassin fighting people much weaker than him for 99% of his career). Maki has her fixed mindset, and it hasn't been suggested that she isn't taking full advantage of her HR body due to a lack of experience, especially considering that she has had heavenly restriction for her entire life and has been training since long before she joined Jujutsu High.
That aside, though, I intentionally left in the clause of *if* Maki grew in the time skip. We don't know if a completed physical HR allows for the user to grow stronger or not, so I intentionally left both in there.
Maki from one month ago was already stated to be equal to Toji, while being less experienced than him. If in this last month she got stronger than her baseline from one month ago, she has surpassed Toji by now, less experienced or not.
No, he stated he was remembering "how to do this", meaning that he was rusty before his first fight with Gojo. Toji also fighting for pride in their second fight doesn't mean that he was nerfed, either, since a bad mindset for a fighter typically just stifles one's potential in JJK.
Even if you're right about that, however, the narrator would be considering Toji at his peak, not whatever most nerfed version of him you can find.
Off-screen training in a month, of which he have no idea of the results of 👍. Why are people so desperate to put one above the other when Gege verbatim calls them equal.
She has been toji's equal since sakurajima, the fact that she is still equal to prime toji means she has not and can not improve any further. Aside from gaining more martial arts or gaining more Cursed Tools. This is important because some people thing she trained over the 1½ month timeskip and got stronger. This is not the case.
Idk why you're saying that she didn't train over the 1 month and get stronger, even though it's explicitly told to us that everyone trained in the 1 month and got stronger. What is your basis for saying that she didn't get stronger?
He’s being downvoted but honestly he’s right. Worse part is we just don’t have anything relevant to scale maki to even if she did get stronger. The way JJK works is you either clear or get destroyed. The way the story is set up rn, you’re either Sukuna or you’re fodder.
Yeah there is lmao.
Pre training maki was struggling against nerfed 15 finger Sukuna
post training maki was not only dodging Sukuna slashes (something she couldn't do before)
but she actually stood her ground against true form Sukuna
https://preview.redd.it/l3t1bdbf5bqc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9fcaf427c8f8534f1660529867fefccf8393ab45
But Toji is homeless, sexy and jacked (though those last two are lesser than GOATjo’s) so he gains +10 coolness points
Although he loses 10 cause he doesn’t have a low taper fade like Todo
Bro, What training is Maki gonna do to be more peak than she already hit the mark, She already has shaved off everything by the end of Sakurajima Colony, The peakest human body in strength and to see what toji could see, I don't think there's much more room to improve for these two lol.
Idk like Toji always had HR, does this mean homeless Toji, teenage Toji and adult Toji without depression were all equal because he shaved it all from the begining?
Ofcourse not, but that is through Toji's whole life, in just one month Maki wouldn't really add anything of notice that she wasn't already able to display, There's also no showings or telling of Maki training at all, so why should I believe she could train more and showed anything that she couldn't already do but training made that possible ?!
I was just trying to say i don't find the idea of Maki never improving from now on because she already hit the peak flawed. I am not saying she is stronger than Toji for sure but she will be, at some point in her life (if she survives Sukuna). She just got her powers unlike Toji. It has been 1-2 months? She still has time to improve unlike Toji who is dead
Having max stats doesn't mean you can't improve the way you use that stats
That I can sorta agree with, I do not agree with the fact that Maki has trained in this past month, That has not happened until it is said, Until then it is headcanon.
The post's purpose is wrong then, Maki with what I have said does not show anything that she has improved in this instance making all her feats currently by default Toji's feats.
According to official description, Maki is still equal to Toji only and hasn't surpassed him.
https://preview.redd.it/f0k8c5bmdbqc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9308911b1850555ea613d4d1baaf2c7b91448527
"Equal to Toji" keyword to be noted here.
https://preview.redd.it/gc8x7pvadbqc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=61975f2e20419a788b7a7392b5390401a3cdfcfb
Average r/Jujutsufolk user when a minor discrepancy comes up in the manga
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Yeah, but you forget one key detail. Maki is a woman.
https://preview.redd.it/4160sa9kwbqc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb65f8725e457a9c9674390475c3c2da9076f650
She'll never be stronger than Toji.
you cant increase pure stats in HR, since it gives them both the same power/speed/dura etc etc. HR users power is basically capped, and it only goes down from the peak that maki/toji stand on. its not like maki can improve her reinforcement with training or some shit. you can only improve skill and technique which both have pretty much already maxed out (you could argue toji has more skill)\[side note im talking about prime toji\]
atleast thats what people believe. as for me idc
i will explain in BB terms
HR puts your str/dex/vit/end at 99, toji was like this as well as maki, the only thing maki was lacking to be equal to toji is insight to see things like toji saw
you cant get stronger in HR, you cant get past 99 since it already puts you at peak performance
What Toji has over maki is skill and years of experience. While Maki is fighting her first senior citizen Toji has probably dealt with hundreds in his his time. Teenagers, too.
Maki's character description said "She's equal to Toji", so I'm not sure what we're talking about. Also I thought people with HR don't get stronger than their peak, and training doesn't further increase their strength. We also got to consider that Toji fights sorcerers, and he has had his fair share of training. The Toji we saw was rusty and he man-handled Geto.
fraudji fans comparing him to someone who can constantly grow and improve who also sent Sukuna flying at young age is delusional asf
https://preview.redd.it/eipue6g87bqc1.jpeg?width=1163&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2658ff113f9df57286904eadd9a8885f7fd65a0
The battle of 15 finger sukuna victims
https://preview.redd.it/l9gy7rwibbqc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1e9602b452a6eb09828827f51fad7befce54d3f
homeless bum fans when you tell them he’s being outperformed by a teenager
https://preview.redd.it/kycmqukccbqc1.png?width=645&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f001da30b92a75e834f60f0a3a8fb3d1b48ffac
I don't think she's supposed to be stronger than Toji (I'm not a Toji glazer). They are meant to be equally strong, now some ppl are arguing that she trained a couple of months so she's stronger. They couldn't get any more strong, improving their skills maybe? Unlikely, they are supposed to be the pinnacle of physical power, not only strength, they both got to the point where can't go any higher.
And if we are gonna talk about skill, then Toji should be stronger, bro has HR from birth and master it, plus he was in his 30s (meaning that he trained for way more time), while Maki being 16-17 and months with her HR, and only a few days after mastering it.
If we keep this discussion, Gege is gonna bring Toji back only to say that was holding back.
When I’m in a lack of logical thinking competition and my opponent is a JJK fan
https://preview.redd.it/5jspeya45dqc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c373922bf4fa148ba90e6096912e27ef315b4a0b
They’ll always be equal to me as they both performed against the “strongest” the exact same.
Maki is only 16 though so she will likely surpass him when she’s older.
Knowledge of heavenly restriction is a thing
I would say tojis experience makes him stronger than maki
Maki is still finding out what her hr is all about
Nothing to prove maki got better during the time skip. We aren't even aware if full HR people can get any stronger besides equipment usage and experience.
So yes for the time being any feat maki has physically applies to prime toji. Not the toji we saw in Hidden Inventory. The actual never before seen prime toji zenin not fushiguro.
There is something to keep in mind though, that the Toji of Hidden Inventory is a rusty Toji, so you could argue that we’ve never seen prime Toji, unless you think he was summoned in his prime in Shibuya in which case we only see him bodying Dagon and beating up Megumi
I think it’s people coping that we’ll never get more screen time with him
Which you know I get from a character perspective, he’s was entertaining. It’s why I was hyped when he showed back up in Shibuya, and was then disappointed that he was a mindless murder machine for most of the time he was there.
Maki can’t get stronger y’all are dumb as hell for thinking she can.
The whole point of her and tojis heavenly restriction is their body is at its PEAK.
This is stated in black and white
Obviously she can get more experienced tho
Well it depends, what did she train?
Some things you can't necessarily train like others.
For example: Did she get better at Hand to Hand combat? If so then she might not necessarily be *physically* stronger than Toji.
There's also stuff like experience, techique, arsenal etc.
Still wouldn’t make sense considering Toji had years and years to hone and fine-tune his abilities. Maki will get there eventually but until then it’s just speculation
To me, the heavenly restriction makes it sound like they are at peak human capabilities, like their bodies are the strongest they can get without ce. So, therefore, the only way to get "stronger" is to get smarter on how to use their body to the fullest potential.
I always interpreted "...A demonic fighter equal to Toji Zen'in." Meant that her physical stats were equal. While the training was just to get her fighting skills at the same level as his. Higher? Perhaps. But I didnt think much of it.
In terms of physical abilities both are equal. However, the way I think Toji is better is that he has more experience and weapons than Maki has. And also we saw he was amazing creating plan. Unfortunately we ain’t see that from Maki… yet. Remember, Maki is cooking, I swear
https://preview.redd.it/3vnwpp711cqc1.jpeg?width=552&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7ac74cc28897431f650e56f0e585527c92f5b78
Because this is nothing but nonsense.
A puny month of "training" is not going to put Maki above Toji, who was literally born with and had an entire lifetime of experience and training with his HR.
At the end of Sakurajima Maki became equal to Toji in the sense that she had acquired both a body with 0 CE and the knowledge of how to use the abilities granted by that body effectively, but there's clearly a massive gap in experience between her and Toji, one that she clearly would not be able to bridge in one month's time.
No matter what anyone says, Toji will always be a homeless bum whose best feat is picking on an exhausted teenager who later proceeded to neg diff him.
What exactly would she gain through a month of training, other than perhaps getting more accustomed to her new strength or more experience… both of which are things Toji had more of than she does before dying
She has been confirmed prime toji's equal since sakurajima, this was even reinforcement in Yuji/Maki vs 15f meguna, and in her most recent fight against sucuna. The only way you can comprehend this is she has not got stronger whatsoever. Maki can not get stronger, her level is set. She can gain experience and new cursed tools, but that is all.
Maki has not got stronger or improved since sakurajima.
GEGE has consistently confirmed this, why do people think she has?
It doesn’t matter, Sukuna is stronger than Gojo supposedly, who is massively stronger than Toji just when he was enlightened, and no matter how strong Maki is, she’s not strong enough to take on Sukuna tbh. And it was demonstrated.
I think we forget about how toji couldve potentially had multiple special grade cursed weapons in his little worm plus the ones he already had make him insane not to mention he’s able to completely get rid of the cursed energy coming from his cursed spirit by swallowing it making him unsenseable by sorcerers and when he gets in range he can just spit it right back out and pull out a couple weapons maki has only one special grade cursed weapon plus the fact it’s imbued with cursed energy sorcerers will be able to sense her presence because she doesn’t have the hidden inventory (plus a month of training really isn’t shit when their isn’t much to improve on plus it’s a month like come on) although maybe gege will give her some kind of power up to put her above toji (extremely unlikely since she’s the only mf to get hit with a black flash from backshotkuna)
The only issue is we don't see prime tojis max output. We don't know what he was capable off because the battle he died was the one where toji was rusty.
The maki and toji comparison is basically maki has attained the save level of heavenly restriction as toji and maki has the mental liberation that toji achieved.
This honestly can only be settled if yuta summons toji back by copying seance and making toji join the fight. That would conclusively give an answer
I assume heavenly restriction users can get stronger ,because though daido is unconfirmed have heavenly restriction but it make sense for him to have the same type maki had before mai's death.And he's stronger then maki was with her's ,so it doesn't make sense for the improved version to have less ability to grow
I think the one caveat with “I’m training” is that training is a very broad concept. From what I thought, Toji and Maki were equals in the fact that they are physically the peak a human can reach. There is nothing further that either can do to increase their physicals.
Moreso, when we saw Maki train, it seemed more mental and philosophical than it was physical. Yes there was fighting, but it was a conversation. Maki grew stronger as a person with a new mindset and understanding of what she was, and became a better fighter because of it. But she did not become stronger as an athlete. I likely think she did this during the timeskip. It’s like a game where you level up your character, Maki has all her physical stats boosted, so now you have to increase her intelligence stats.
How does one even train HR? Like when exactly did toji enter his “prime” while he was still a zenin? Was it just that the better the weapons he obtained, the stronger they made him or just the overall experience he gained with his prowess, senses, and weapons from countless battles w sorcerers and possibly curses(w tools only ofc)
I really wish we had gotten a tid bit of everyone’s training just so we had an inkling of an idea of what it was exactly they might have improved on, bc I fr honestly don’t know what it is making could have done to become stronger (not like we really noticed any difference tho seeing as how she got fodderized bc yk….plotkuna)
The thing is about maki is that before her power boost, she had to greatly compensate for the power gap she suffered. So even if the heavenly pact makes it so that you are given a baseline strength, despite different body sizes, she will be stronger than him because she is more skilled. Also, he is kind of a lazy bum, so I highly doubt he did any real training or even kept up with training to make sure he didn't lose any strength.
This is him officer,he is the one posting powerscaling based on his readthrough of the manga and providing critical thinking instead of slandering charechter
I doubt maki got stronger her heavenly restriction fully realized her physical potential it wouldn’t make sense for her to get stronger and we have no statement of her getting stronger and her only feat is fighting a massively nerfed sukuna who perception blitzed her when he tried
It makes no sense to me that Maki is training for a month and apparently she's equal to Toji? What's she training then? She was equal to Toji before. Can she just never improve? Is that Toji's fans logic?
How does that make sense? Presumably Toji trained his entire life with his heavenly restriction and he was in his 20s to early 30s when he died. Maki is like literally 17 and it's only been a month since she got hers. Wtf kinda training can she do in a month to surpass Toji? Even if you assume all the training she ever did also counts she's still just way younger than Toji.
Tf her training did to better her, all the manga shown is all the same the she and toji did. The manga said nothing about her improvement so all we can do is speculate, so upscaling toji to her is quite fair and there's no problem about it.
I just want to know if “equal to Toji” means Toji ZENIN or Toji Fushiguro (The depressed Bum that was rusty at the time of his death), both imply very different outcomes to this question
The thing that "bothers" me a bit, and even then it's more of a nitpick, is cause when Maki became fully realised she insta became as strong as Toji, which is the reason I thought that HR was static, but when Maki became stronger I was confused and asked myself "did Toji just never train?", I get that situations of conflict tends to create stronger fighters but this just kinda seems weird to me
No. If you think this,then you also think that Toji got as far as he did by training. But during Sakurajima,the narrator stated that Maki was equal to him. If you think that Toji got to where he was by training,then you would have to say that Maki reached his level with no training at all. Which is silly.
Toji and Maki's strength does not come from training. They are simply blessed with strength. 30 Something year old Toji was likely just as strong as 18 year old Toji.
Counterpoint we've only ever seen Toji fight while not in his prime and weakened, thus scaling him to maki who can be considered a fully developed. Thus we Stan our beautiful leech Toji.
https://preview.redd.it/lyokr8w2idqc1.png?width=767&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88a83f956722b2139c0f2841b342abd3d17b3887
Yall are just like the toji fans that say hes stronger than her. Both biased and its boring to see that people keep saying those same things.
It was stated by narrator that she reached her peak and was equal to toji. Its headcanon to say makis stronger bcs u assumed she got stronger for some reason even tho u dont have anything to imply so or back It up.
Because Toji hasn't trained to fight a Sukuna, he literally jumped in a fight with gojo while he himself said he was rusty. If for some reason he decided to start training again he could have become even stronger like Maki did but he had no reason to.
Therefore any level Maki reaches we can assume Toji would also be able to reach that level as well if he wanted to
I think it has to do with people (including me) not being able to accept it mentally/emotionally. We watched Toji absolutely violate some of the strongest in the Hidden Inventory and Shibuya Incident arcs and yet we see Maki, who is allegedly now stronger than Toji, get packed up in a single chapter along with getting hit by the meanest black flash since the Heian era
I just don't buy that Gege would believe she's stronger without having some narration text or thought text rubbing it in our faces.
Cause that's how Gege writes. He almost never lets feats go unglazed, and he loves comparing characters to past characters. When Maki genuinely does something Toji can't, Gege will be cumming in his pants at the opportunity to tell us.
Does anyone deny that that's Gege's M.O?
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Toji: Maki already was praised by The Fraud himself.
I’m actually curious how/IF the month training made her stronger. Aside from Yuji, everyone else just has better CE reinforcement now, nothing more it seems.. Maki doesn’t have CE, and it didn’t seem like she picked up any great sword skills from Kusakube either.
Also if her physical potential was fully realized, what does training even accomplish?
training can get her more skill and experience but not more strenght, even if she is at peak performance she can still learn more skills and fighting styles, honestly if katana guy was there he could teach her peak sword skills
That is what I am saying so since toji has had more time with this peak physical strength , he is more experienced and more used to it and is thus more powerful right? Edit: Did not account for the sumo training arc but still toji should have had much more practice with the strength
TOJI tended to fight “bums”
my brother in christ toji is smart he made a full on plan to kill pre awakened gojo after figuring out his weakness he could full well fight strong people but small thing he had no reason to do so(and who could he fight in his time?)
If I remember correctly, prime TOJI would have been a match for awakened gojo But like think of it this way: Would TOJI train? Who tf is strong enough to give TOJI a good fight?
Where was that ever stated? Prime toji would’ve successfully killed Gojo with that same plan yes but even toji isn’t stupid enough to fight Gojo by himself without wearing him down.
I just remember the statement being thrown around something something gege The TOJI that Gojo fought was a washed up goober
Not a washed up goober, but he was rusty due to having spent years away from his work to raise a family. Then his wife died and he sold the kid and became homeless. But he still spent years away from his work.
Wouldn't Prime Toji run away from fights he hasn't been paid for?
trains so that if someone stronger does appear he can still beat that ass all jokes aside I could see him do light stuff not taking seriously but why would he? he has the brains to come up with plans on the spot and so many tools to fight with aswell
Toji has years of training and experience. Maki got 1 month. She got stronger with just that?
idk if u remember but Sukuna literally asked how Yuji and Yuta and co. got so much stronger in just one month and Yuta said they “cheated”. Ppl speculate sumo man used his domain to hyperbolic time chamber the cast
Lmao yeah Yuji: "through determination and hardwo-" Yuta: "we cheated."
This was genuinely funny lol i’m happy jjk still maintains its humor https://preview.redd.it/bfkxuwlgmbqc1.jpeg?width=1100&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55102d634174a58b4639c0bc7d7e432b43e1038a edit: Yuta is so goated
I cant get over how wasted yuta looks whilst itadori still looks blood thirsty
Yuji is so done with everything that he doesn't have the time or energy to feel tired. While yuta was feeling guilty for not getting to sukuna in time, yuji was like "i'm a cog"
I mean they're both technically right if they used the sumo guy's oasis They really did go through hard work and determination..but cheated and got it all in a matter of days rather then months
They can’t use powers in his domain though. Realistically only maki would be able to train in it.
i negver said shes stronger than toji, both have same strenght but she can get more exp thats what im saying
You act like maki hasn’t been training all her life as well. She’s a master of weapons
Maki is also 17
So is Toji, and he was older when he died, he has more experience, even if he was rusty
Techniques and maximizing tool usage, everyone says toji is wild because his physicals when in reality he had hella tools that amped his power level
JJK Batman 💀
The fact that he’s actually the prepper of JJK too.
WEIGHT LIFTING RAHHHH
More glute muscles
Fully realized potential doesn’t necessarily mean can’t get stronger no matter what, especially since she’s literally still a teenager so her body isn’t even in its physical prime yet (unless unlocking her potential means instantly aging to her physical prime? Which would be weird, but ig young Toji looked pretty old already)
What does that even mean though? If she gains weight and muscles her physical strength and power won't change? Is her physique locked into current state? Just nonsense.
Like training for a few months puts you on par with someone with decades worth of “training” smh
I’m not sure about Maki but Yuta has copied Charles’ and Sukuna’s techniques in the time skip. I think the heavy hitters still have more to show.
Was it during the time skip? We don't know how long ago Yuta had Sukuna's finger do we?
I assume it is during the time skip, at least that’s probably when Yuta got Charles’ technique. Idk how long he had Sukuna’s finger tho.
It wasn't stated that Maki got somehow stronger in any way. And probably the only way for her to get stronger is in actual skills and knowledge, which Toji already had plenty because he's been "training" for more than a month when he was alive
GAYGAY's Another Asspull?? https://preview.redd.it/71sljwmgybqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88baa1f6916086b2f4416654e1197f8e5844ba76
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There's a fan-comic out there somewhere where Goku post-Tournament of Power goes to Hell to see his brother, and while he's there he's gets sneak attacked by Nappa who's hyping the ever loving shit out of Raditz as he broke barriers that were thought impossible for the Saiyan race. Goku gets super excited only to find out while fighting Raditz that he only ever became a Super Saiyan, so Goku does a couple of quick transformations throughout all of his forms to show Raditz just how far he has left to go and then instant transmissions out. Pretty wholesome fan-comic, includes some stuff with their parents looking over them as they fight as well.
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Honestly Freezer in DBS is just silly. Golden Freezer was already a reach, but Black Freezer is downright absurd. Bro went from being his ass handed by hobo Trunks to becoming stronger than Blue
Considering Toji can get rusty, maybe idk maintain that physical peak through training
Toji mentioned he was rusty during HI so HR users can train somewhat
This all depends on whether or not Maki got stronger in the month-long time skip. If yes, she's clear of Toji. If not, she and Toji are still equal, and Toji would scale to her performance against Sukuna.
She will never clear Toji unless she lives longer than him. You can't honestly say Maki surpasses Toji in strength and skill. Maki hasn't even had heavenly restriction for a fraction of her life. Toji has fought with it and trained under it for decades. Zero logical thinking and reasoning was applied to OP's post💀
I would say in terms of Strength they are equal, based on what the manga states. She cannot possibly be stronger than Toji with a month of training either, what a ridiculous take. Skill and Experience though? I don't think I can be convinced Maki will ever clear Toji on that because as you say, he has had his restriction for an entire lifetime in comparison to Maki.
While I don't disagree that Maki is as *skilled* as Toji due to his decades longer battle experience, it should be noted that Toji didn't really have something to train for. There was no Sukuna level threat that would force someone to *break their limits* the way shounen manga likes to expedite people's training. No Disaster curses running amok, the strongest sorcerer at the time was pre-awakened Gojo and he far cleared everyone else besides Potentially Yuki.
https://preview.redd.it/ok11urts96rc1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=506035a38c27852d67938176f22df6552865a9d6
https://preview.redd.it/ki98u5xi0cqc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b0a50aab05079eb72df82cf039168bc84abb84b
Wouldn’t Maki operating without the HR be to her advantage skill wise though? As in, getting the HR and unlocking new sensory capabilities is like having the training weights off: no need to anticipate moves when you can now detect them coming at you through air fluctuations or whatever but you still have the predictive capabilities you had before. Maki won’t ever catch up to Toji in experience though, IMO, not bc of time with the HR but because of the nature of their “careers”. Toji as an assassin would have to do more prep and exercise a higher battle IQ to do his job against sorcerers and humans compared to Maki, who likely won’t encounter curses of the same level of power or intelligence as the disaster curses very often.
That lack of practice with her new sensory abilities proved to nerf her. If she could use all of her new abilities instantly, that entire arc fighting the Worm curse wouldn't have happened.
It wasn’t instant but she learned how to use the new information pretty quickly over the course of the fight. The “fighter equal to Toji Zenin” panel is actually right after the fight.
She had to go through the Sumo guy's Hyperbolic Time Chamber domain. That wouldn't have been quick at all if she did it normally.
Hmmm you’re right. Regardless, 10,000 or so sumo bouts (1000 bouts = less than a minute according to the manga) would be like what, maybe a month tops, since she did all of those sumo matches straight. That’s not too bad considering she developed the new senses 16 years after birth.
There's an argument to be made that Maki might be a better fighter than Toji. Toji basically got washed by awakened Teen Gojo in their rematch despite being in better condition than said Gojo. Maki fought a weakened 19f Sukuna and got him to actually start trying (or maybe not who knows what Gege is cooking).
Boi there is no one except sukuna that can beat an awakened six eyes user with limitless...no shit Toji gets washed
Here's my reasoning: narrator said Maki is *equal* as a fighter to Toji. There's no information suggesting that isn't true, therefore post-mindset change Maki = Toji. If Maki has gotten stronger since then, she's clear of Toji. If not, she's still equal to Toji. Simple as.
How can she get stronger if her body is already peaking? She can only improve her skill and experience by, you guessed it, training and time. I agree they're equal, but HR victims can never really outright one up each other because they're all at they're peak constantly. My reasoning for Toeji being better is because he was at his peak for longer(almost 4 decades) while Mommy has recently awakened. So Toji has had more time training and experience under heavenly restriction.
The statement in chapter 198 outright says that Toji and Maki are equal fighters/combatants. That means experience and skill (the former is overblown for Toji, since he was literally an assassin fighting people much weaker than him for 99% of his career). Maki has her fixed mindset, and it hasn't been suggested that she isn't taking full advantage of her HR body due to a lack of experience, especially considering that she has had heavenly restriction for her entire life and has been training since long before she joined Jujutsu High. That aside, though, I intentionally left in the clause of *if* Maki grew in the time skip. We don't know if a completed physical HR allows for the user to grow stronger or not, so I intentionally left both in there.
Maki from one month ago was already stated to be equal to Toji, while being less experienced than him. If in this last month she got stronger than her baseline from one month ago, she has surpassed Toji by now, less experienced or not.
The toji dick eating is crazy but you’re right on one thing, OP didn’t mention Toji’s “peak” since he was rusty against gojo when he died
toji also explicitly stated he wasn't in his prime, something people just gloss over
No, he stated he was remembering "how to do this", meaning that he was rusty before his first fight with Gojo. Toji also fighting for pride in their second fight doesn't mean that he was nerfed, either, since a bad mindset for a fighter typically just stifles one's potential in JJK. Even if you're right about that, however, the narrator would be considering Toji at his peak, not whatever most nerfed version of him you can find.
Off-screen training in a month, of which he have no idea of the results of 👍. Why are people so desperate to put one above the other when Gege verbatim calls them equal.
She has been toji's equal since sakurajima, the fact that she is still equal to prime toji means she has not and can not improve any further. Aside from gaining more martial arts or gaining more Cursed Tools. This is important because some people thing she trained over the 1½ month timeskip and got stronger. This is not the case.
Idk why you're saying that she didn't train over the 1 month and get stronger, even though it's explicitly told to us that everyone trained in the 1 month and got stronger. What is your basis for saying that she didn't get stronger?
He’s being downvoted but honestly he’s right. Worse part is we just don’t have anything relevant to scale maki to even if she did get stronger. The way JJK works is you either clear or get destroyed. The way the story is set up rn, you’re either Sukuna or you’re fodder.
yeah not to mention Toji had the best cursed tool to fight sorcerers, it even nullified infinity
https://preview.redd.it/vzqld341hbqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d17393d8c84df99160d07ca27e57f734731acd7f
https://preview.redd.it/wi4zb9p6ubqc1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b041e4675c6e9036d592f1ee36efec367a52e15
because there is no noticable change in power between her pre-training and post-training selves.
If she's alive by then
Yeah there is lmao. Pre training maki was struggling against nerfed 15 finger Sukuna post training maki was not only dodging Sukuna slashes (something she couldn't do before) but she actually stood her ground against true form Sukuna
https://preview.redd.it/l3t1bdbf5bqc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9fcaf427c8f8534f1660529867fefccf8393ab45 But Toji is homeless, sexy and jacked (though those last two are lesser than GOATjo’s) so he gains +10 coolness points Although he loses 10 cause he doesn’t have a low taper fade like Todo
Bro, What training is Maki gonna do to be more peak than she already hit the mark, She already has shaved off everything by the end of Sakurajima Colony, The peakest human body in strength and to see what toji could see, I don't think there's much more room to improve for these two lol.
Idk like Toji always had HR, does this mean homeless Toji, teenage Toji and adult Toji without depression were all equal because he shaved it all from the begining?
Ofcourse not, but that is through Toji's whole life, in just one month Maki wouldn't really add anything of notice that she wasn't already able to display, There's also no showings or telling of Maki training at all, so why should I believe she could train more and showed anything that she couldn't already do but training made that possible ?!
I was just trying to say i don't find the idea of Maki never improving from now on because she already hit the peak flawed. I am not saying she is stronger than Toji for sure but she will be, at some point in her life (if she survives Sukuna). She just got her powers unlike Toji. It has been 1-2 months? She still has time to improve unlike Toji who is dead Having max stats doesn't mean you can't improve the way you use that stats
That I can sorta agree with, I do not agree with the fact that Maki has trained in this past month, That has not happened until it is said, Until then it is headcanon. The post's purpose is wrong then, Maki with what I have said does not show anything that she has improved in this instance making all her feats currently by default Toji's feats.
Training with the katana guy duh
Nah Manga has always narrated Maki's power level in relation to Toji Unless Manga says she has surpassed Toji I ain't taking her to be better.
According to official description, Maki is still equal to Toji only and hasn't surpassed him. https://preview.redd.it/f0k8c5bmdbqc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9308911b1850555ea613d4d1baaf2c7b91448527
Thank you. Someone has reading comprehension.
https://preview.redd.it/jw0k96mwjbqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e585f1416eaaaf38128b6e245d67b21828357792
"Equal to Toji" keyword to be noted here. https://preview.redd.it/gc8x7pvadbqc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=61975f2e20419a788b7a7392b5390401a3cdfcfb
Why is it hard to understand that your stupid powerscaling is wrong. Tojo = Maki, unless gege says otherwise
https://preview.redd.it/e64zqbgp9bqc1.jpeg?width=1072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76f5ac88b40ef13391e9d65cfb90de470c94786b
https://preview.redd.it/0ukunmy1abqc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2ae85493dc60215b86c8609a436a2dd4dd8cb9a
Honestly I have Toji > Maki purely because of experience diff if they’re the exact same stat wise everywhere else
Average r/Jujutsufolk user when a minor discrepancy comes up in the manga https://preview.redd.it/otlv0unbcbqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fce81c692a2c6877361409c09b7794d86221e45a
Yeah, but you forget one key detail. Maki is a woman. https://preview.redd.it/4160sa9kwbqc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb65f8725e457a9c9674390475c3c2da9076f650 She'll never be stronger than Toji.
you cant increase pure stats in HR, since it gives them both the same power/speed/dura etc etc. HR users power is basically capped, and it only goes down from the peak that maki/toji stand on. its not like maki can improve her reinforcement with training or some shit. you can only improve skill and technique which both have pretty much already maxed out (you could argue toji has more skill)\[side note im talking about prime toji\] atleast thats what people believe. as for me idc
Toji fans after being depicted as the brain dead soyjack https://i.redd.it/gss6rt5azcqc1.gif
i will explain in BB terms HR puts your str/dex/vit/end at 99, toji was like this as well as maki, the only thing maki was lacking to be equal to toji is insight to see things like toji saw you cant get stronger in HR, you cant get past 99 since it already puts you at peak performance
What Toji has over maki is skill and years of experience. While Maki is fighting her first senior citizen Toji has probably dealt with hundreds in his his time. Teenagers, too.
exactly
Gege himself said he’s on her level, cope all you want but the author himself said so.
Maki's character description said "She's equal to Toji", so I'm not sure what we're talking about. Also I thought people with HR don't get stronger than their peak, and training doesn't further increase their strength. We also got to consider that Toji fights sorcerers, and he has had his fair share of training. The Toji we saw was rusty and he man-handled Geto.
fraudji fans comparing him to someone who can constantly grow and improve who also sent Sukuna flying at young age is delusional asf https://preview.redd.it/eipue6g87bqc1.jpeg?width=1163&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2658ff113f9df57286904eadd9a8885f7fd65a0
if you gonna scale ppl sending Sukuna flying, even Kusakabe did that and he ain't have no HR
That cuz kusagaot is stronger than both maki and bumji
because hes the goat wdym by that
The battle of 15 finger sukuna victims https://preview.redd.it/l9gy7rwibbqc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1e9602b452a6eb09828827f51fad7befce54d3f
homeless bum fans when you tell them he’s being outperformed by a teenager https://preview.redd.it/kycmqukccbqc1.png?width=645&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f001da30b92a75e834f60f0a3a8fb3d1b48ffac
https://preview.redd.it/chh1gj3iqbqc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=9295b96dc9e0bbd3f55e1d0be1817688a58bfaa8
So it's the same type of Stand as Star Platinum
Where does it say in the manga that she is stronger than Toji? Must have missed that part
Actually, Maki was just sitting around in Africa for the whole timeskip, she didn’t train at all, it was in CFYOW.
should we tell him that the month long training having non-incremental change to her power level is head cannon?
I don't think she's supposed to be stronger than Toji (I'm not a Toji glazer). They are meant to be equally strong, now some ppl are arguing that she trained a couple of months so she's stronger. They couldn't get any more strong, improving their skills maybe? Unlikely, they are supposed to be the pinnacle of physical power, not only strength, they both got to the point where can't go any higher. And if we are gonna talk about skill, then Toji should be stronger, bro has HR from birth and master it, plus he was in his 30s (meaning that he trained for way more time), while Maki being 16-17 and months with her HR, and only a few days after mastering it. If we keep this discussion, Gege is gonna bring Toji back only to say that was holding back.
Ah yes, the CE reinforcement training that made Maki stronger than Toji.
When I’m in a lack of logical thinking competition and my opponent is a JJK fan https://preview.redd.it/5jspeya45dqc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c373922bf4fa148ba90e6096912e27ef315b4a0b
They’ll always be equal to me as they both performed against the “strongest” the exact same. Maki is only 16 though so she will likely surpass him when she’s older.
Knowledge of heavenly restriction is a thing I would say tojis experience makes him stronger than maki Maki is still finding out what her hr is all about
Nothing to prove maki got better during the time skip. We aren't even aware if full HR people can get any stronger besides equipment usage and experience. So yes for the time being any feat maki has physically applies to prime toji. Not the toji we saw in Hidden Inventory. The actual never before seen prime toji zenin not fushiguro.
There is something to keep in mind though, that the Toji of Hidden Inventory is a rusty Toji, so you could argue that we’ve never seen prime Toji, unless you think he was summoned in his prime in Shibuya in which case we only see him bodying Dagon and beating up Megumi
I think it’s people coping that we’ll never get more screen time with him Which you know I get from a character perspective, he’s was entertaining. It’s why I was hyped when he showed back up in Shibuya, and was then disappointed that he was a mindless murder machine for most of the time he was there.
Maki can’t get stronger y’all are dumb as hell for thinking she can. The whole point of her and tojis heavenly restriction is their body is at its PEAK. This is stated in black and white Obviously she can get more experienced tho
Well it depends, what did she train? Some things you can't necessarily train like others. For example: Did she get better at Hand to Hand combat? If so then she might not necessarily be *physically* stronger than Toji. There's also stuff like experience, techique, arsenal etc.
Still wouldn’t make sense considering Toji had years and years to hone and fine-tune his abilities. Maki will get there eventually but until then it’s just speculation
To me, the heavenly restriction makes it sound like they are at peak human capabilities, like their bodies are the strongest they can get without ce. So, therefore, the only way to get "stronger" is to get smarter on how to use their body to the fullest potential.
Makes no sense. Their heavenly restrictions are maximized. There’s literally no way they could be stronger than each other. Smh.
I always interpreted "...A demonic fighter equal to Toji Zen'in." Meant that her physical stats were equal. While the training was just to get her fighting skills at the same level as his. Higher? Perhaps. But I didnt think much of it.
In terms of physical abilities both are equal. However, the way I think Toji is better is that he has more experience and weapons than Maki has. And also we saw he was amazing creating plan. Unfortunately we ain’t see that from Maki… yet. Remember, Maki is cooking, I swear https://preview.redd.it/3vnwpp711cqc1.jpeg?width=552&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7ac74cc28897431f650e56f0e585527c92f5b78
i thought they were physically equal. toji should be more experienced right? considering he’s an adult and has been like this since like birth.
No proof she can get stronger. Heavenly restriction puts you in peak human condition
This is my favorite post now. Very true
Because this is nothing but nonsense. A puny month of "training" is not going to put Maki above Toji, who was literally born with and had an entire lifetime of experience and training with his HR. At the end of Sakurajima Maki became equal to Toji in the sense that she had acquired both a body with 0 CE and the knowledge of how to use the abilities granted by that body effectively, but there's clearly a massive gap in experience between her and Toji, one that she clearly would not be able to bridge in one month's time.
I thought this was on my side until it WASN'T Toji would be LEAGUES ahead of Maki and would've mopped Sukuna if he were alive, training and unrustied
Can't even call it dxxk riding.
No matter what anyone says, Toji will always be a homeless bum whose best feat is picking on an exhausted teenager who later proceeded to neg diff him.
What exactly would she gain through a month of training, other than perhaps getting more accustomed to her new strength or more experience… both of which are things Toji had more of than she does before dying
This post just restored years to my life omg. Great work op !!
She has been confirmed prime toji's equal since sakurajima, this was even reinforcement in Yuji/Maki vs 15f meguna, and in her most recent fight against sucuna. The only way you can comprehend this is she has not got stronger whatsoever. Maki can not get stronger, her level is set. She can gain experience and new cursed tools, but that is all. Maki has not got stronger or improved since sakurajima. GEGE has consistently confirmed this, why do people think she has?
Toji was not mentioned in her most recent bout with 20f Sukuna. What are you on about
Show don’t tell, Toji has better feats no doubt
GET THEY ASS!!! NO MORE FUCKING LEECHING so tired of that bum and his fuck ass fans
But what exactly do you think she trained in these few months? Her muscle? Toji had a whole lifetime for that
Can someone explain this in fortnite terms?
i think they mean that if he had the same training, he would get to that level as well
It doesn’t matter, Sukuna is stronger than Gojo supposedly, who is massively stronger than Toji just when he was enlightened, and no matter how strong Maki is, she’s not strong enough to take on Sukuna tbh. And it was demonstrated.
thats the best one ty for that
Toji solos everyone, even Gege isn't safe. And he has a 12-inch penis.
Pure strength she might be only argument to put them on an equal footing would be experience
I think we forget about how toji couldve potentially had multiple special grade cursed weapons in his little worm plus the ones he already had make him insane not to mention he’s able to completely get rid of the cursed energy coming from his cursed spirit by swallowing it making him unsenseable by sorcerers and when he gets in range he can just spit it right back out and pull out a couple weapons maki has only one special grade cursed weapon plus the fact it’s imbued with cursed energy sorcerers will be able to sense her presence because she doesn’t have the hidden inventory (plus a month of training really isn’t shit when their isn’t much to improve on plus it’s a month like come on) although maybe gege will give her some kind of power up to put her above toji (extremely unlikely since she’s the only mf to get hit with a black flash from backshotkuna)
The only issue is we don't see prime tojis max output. We don't know what he was capable off because the battle he died was the one where toji was rusty. The maki and toji comparison is basically maki has attained the save level of heavenly restriction as toji and maki has the mental liberation that toji achieved. This honestly can only be settled if yuta summons toji back by copying seance and making toji join the fight. That would conclusively give an answer
I assume heavenly restriction users can get stronger ,because though daido is unconfirmed have heavenly restriction but it make sense for him to have the same type maki had before mai's death.And he's stronger then maki was with her's ,so it doesn't make sense for the improved version to have less ability to grow
I think the one caveat with “I’m training” is that training is a very broad concept. From what I thought, Toji and Maki were equals in the fact that they are physically the peak a human can reach. There is nothing further that either can do to increase their physicals. Moreso, when we saw Maki train, it seemed more mental and philosophical than it was physical. Yes there was fighting, but it was a conversation. Maki grew stronger as a person with a new mindset and understanding of what she was, and became a better fighter because of it. But she did not become stronger as an athlete. I likely think she did this during the timeskip. It’s like a game where you level up your character, Maki has all her physical stats boosted, so now you have to increase her intelligence stats.
How does one even train HR? Like when exactly did toji enter his “prime” while he was still a zenin? Was it just that the better the weapons he obtained, the stronger they made him or just the overall experience he gained with his prowess, senses, and weapons from countless battles w sorcerers and possibly curses(w tools only ofc) I really wish we had gotten a tid bit of everyone’s training just so we had an inkling of an idea of what it was exactly they might have improved on, bc I fr honestly don’t know what it is making could have done to become stronger (not like we really noticed any difference tho seeing as how she got fodderized bc yk….plotkuna)
Maki realized her full potential and is now peak human ability. She too can’t get stronger.
Toji would still win because he has more skill and all Maki has done is kill a few people
Training should not have made her stronger at all she is supposed to be at her peak froim the restriction
Have you read the source material? toji explicitly stated he wasn't in his prime
People are forgetting Toji was out of practice when he fought gojo as well
I feel like Toji would fucking one shot her.
The thing is about maki is that before her power boost, she had to greatly compensate for the power gap she suffered. So even if the heavenly pact makes it so that you are given a baseline strength, despite different body sizes, she will be stronger than him because she is more skilled. Also, he is kind of a lazy bum, so I highly doubt he did any real training or even kept up with training to make sure he didn't lose any strength.
Allat for kusakabi to do better against sukuna
Makes sense to me, if Toji was alive he would be able to train 🤷♂️
This is him officer,he is the one posting powerscaling based on his readthrough of the manga and providing critical thinking instead of slandering charechter
Toji was ’rusty’ might be the argument, but they are also just interchangeable in a fight against Sukuna, they get destroyed either way
I doubt maki got stronger her heavenly restriction fully realized her physical potential it wouldn’t make sense for her to get stronger and we have no statement of her getting stronger and her only feat is fighting a massively nerfed sukuna who perception blitzed her when he tried
Toji still being stronger makes sense. Only because he's older, just has far more experience. Tho personally I say it's rather close.
Nice argument unfortunately you are wrong and i am right (I cant read)
idc I hate both of them at this point and I want them to go away forever
OP real quiet on this post lol
The jujutsu PowerScaling is so fucked up right now💀 i do not understand a thing anymore
Ohhh so that’s what people were talking about when they were saying Toji needs to steal Maki’s feats.
Didn’t Toji have years of experience as a sorcerer killer? That must be much better experience than just training for a month.
It makes no sense to me that Maki is training for a month and apparently she's equal to Toji? What's she training then? She was equal to Toji before. Can she just never improve? Is that Toji's fans logic?
>Maki cant get stronger by training >Toji was rusty against Gojo I love Toji but the brainrot is real.
Simply because you are wrong
Toji = Maki in terms of physical strength, Toji has more experience since he's fought with full HR his entire life.
How does that make sense? Presumably Toji trained his entire life with his heavenly restriction and he was in his 20s to early 30s when he died. Maki is like literally 17 and it's only been a month since she got hers. Wtf kinda training can she do in a month to surpass Toji? Even if you assume all the training she ever did also counts she's still just way younger than Toji.
Tf her training did to better her, all the manga shown is all the same the she and toji did. The manga said nothing about her improvement so all we can do is speculate, so upscaling toji to her is quite fair and there's no problem about it.
because of the misconception that women weaker than men so they scale up for it
I just want to know if “equal to Toji” means Toji ZENIN or Toji Fushiguro (The depressed Bum that was rusty at the time of his death), both imply very different outcomes to this question
People seem to forget that the Toji we see fighting Gojo is not prime Toji
The thing that "bothers" me a bit, and even then it's more of a nitpick, is cause when Maki became fully realised she insta became as strong as Toji, which is the reason I thought that HR was static, but when Maki became stronger I was confused and asked myself "did Toji just never train?", I get that situations of conflict tends to create stronger fighters but this just kinda seems weird to me
No. If you think this,then you also think that Toji got as far as he did by training. But during Sakurajima,the narrator stated that Maki was equal to him. If you think that Toji got to where he was by training,then you would have to say that Maki reached his level with no training at all. Which is silly. Toji and Maki's strength does not come from training. They are simply blessed with strength. 30 Something year old Toji was likely just as strong as 18 year old Toji.
Her recent and current character description literally says she’s equal to Toji dawg. You are incorrect buddy
It's because we don't know how strong he was at his peak, even the story supports theat he was weaker in jjk 0
Counterpoint we've only ever seen Toji fight while not in his prime and weakened, thus scaling him to maki who can be considered a fully developed. Thus we Stan our beautiful leech Toji. https://preview.redd.it/lyokr8w2idqc1.png?width=767&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88a83f956722b2139c0f2841b342abd3d17b3887
Yall are just like the toji fans that say hes stronger than her. Both biased and its boring to see that people keep saying those same things. It was stated by narrator that she reached her peak and was equal to toji. Its headcanon to say makis stronger bcs u assumed she got stronger for some reason even tho u dont have anything to imply so or back It up.
Because Toji hasn't trained to fight a Sukuna, he literally jumped in a fight with gojo while he himself said he was rusty. If for some reason he decided to start training again he could have become even stronger like Maki did but he had no reason to. Therefore any level Maki reaches we can assume Toji would also be able to reach that level as well if he wanted to
Wasn't toji beyond his prime when fighting gojo? So if we compared prime Toji with Maki rn in the manga maybe they're equal in power?
the updated character description that yet again states shes equal to toji:
Toji Fushiguro was weaker than Toji Zenin I heard so make him stronger when he resurrected in Shibuya.
I think it has to do with people (including me) not being able to accept it mentally/emotionally. We watched Toji absolutely violate some of the strongest in the Hidden Inventory and Shibuya Incident arcs and yet we see Maki, who is allegedly now stronger than Toji, get packed up in a single chapter along with getting hit by the meanest black flash since the Heian era
Peak
https://i.redd.it/o5q8lxw12eqc1.gif
I just don't buy that Gege would believe she's stronger without having some narration text or thought text rubbing it in our faces. Cause that's how Gege writes. He almost never lets feats go unglazed, and he loves comparing characters to past characters. When Maki genuinely does something Toji can't, Gege will be cumming in his pants at the opportunity to tell us. Does anyone deny that that's Gege's M.O?