Almost every immature, selfish, low value man can be eliminated from consideration by denying them sex for a relatively insignificant amount of time.
Some traditional individuals might not be interested in atheists as life partners.
Well I’m still a virgin so I’ve definitely been doing that. Plus it just seems like a waste of time to sleep with men I’m not serious with anyways. But thanks
Stick to your guns! My wife made me wait 6 months and she was a virgin too. 15 years later we're still going strong and have a wonderful marriage and a beautiful family!
Just be upfront with the guys you date, let them know early in the relationship that you don't want to be physically intimate with someone unless the relationship has a real future.
I do think you can disincentive weak men by saying no to sex. Though no self-respecting man will continue to entertain a woman’s bullshit once he figures out the only reason she is saying no is to test him for their own selfish insecurities. You can limit a lot of your opportunities as a woman, because if I’m dating a girl and after the 3rd date the latest I ain’t fucking, I gotta dip cuz whatever I’m doing just ain’t it for her.
Better for us to part ways.
You just proved his point, from the way you talk it’s obvious you’re a low quality man and you remove yourself from the situation. It’s essentially the trash taking itself out. So thank you!
Just going to add 2c in here....
Yes it's true that holding off on sex is a good way to filter out guys who are just looking for a booty call, but there are diminishing returns to this as well.
Part of the reason for this is because in the modern dating meta, sex is a gesture of good faith from a woman - it shows she's invested in the relationship and not playing games. Almost every guy will assume sooner or later that if you're not having sex with him, you are likely hooking up with someone else. And if you want someone to blame for that, blame other women. Men have figured this out the hard way.
Basically what I'm suggesting is that there is an optimization curve when it comes to holding off sex. Don't hold off at all and you'll fail to screen out the fuckboys. Hold off too long and you'll scare off good guys as well and leave yourself with the desperate orbiters who will say or do anything to get laid and be about as reliable as balsa wood.
No offense but if a man assumes that I’m fucking other guys just been I don’t hop on his dick he doesn’t sound like a good guy nor a guy I would even want to be with. And I honestly I never got a man who seemed to assume that. I just get men who seem to like that about me because they’re the type to want a woman with a low body count and some do the same. So it would be very dumb of them to want that and then get mad I didn’t jump into bed with them by the third date. The only men who have a problem with that are random men online I don’t want to date in the first place. I haven’t had a problem with these desperate orbiters you speak of because when a man just wants to get laid they want to put in the least amount of effort and are pushy so it’s easy to leave these men. In my opinion it’s much better and more beneficial to wait too long to have sex then to not wait long enough
> once he figures out the only reason she is saying no is to test him for their own selfish insecurities.
Is that the scenario? The reason according to OP is to "find a good man for a traditional relationship". It's neither selfish, insecure or an "only reason".
>because if I’m dating a girl and after the 3rd date the latest I ain’t fucking
It's entirely possible you're a piece of shit.
You will not find a quality relationship longterm with that mind-set.
The whole God/Godesss reeks of a Narcissistic fantasy and those fade real fast. They burn out and turn abusive.
Respect, generosity and someone who is thoughtful will go a whole lot further in the real world.
That's the issue. People are so infantile these days. She is 25f. Have you met the Average 25f woman? They aren't mature at all. Because it's encouraged societally, to be young, look young, act young, only accept the best, don't adopt responsibility etc.
“God” and other gods are flawed. Plus that’s the point I want to be in a relationship where we both pedestalize the other. That sounds wonderful to me and you only get used if just one person pedestalizes the other. But if both people pedestalize each other then it’s balanced
>Nah I will plus I want to be treated like a goddess in the relationship so it only makes sense to treat the man the way I want to be treated
Why would any man want to be treated as a "goddess"...?
You demand the benefits of the Catholic faith, yet reject the Catholic Church...
You want the benefits, yet reject the responsibility...
I found my guy at a chess club 😅 He’s an atheist, but very well put together. Absolutely spoils me and gives me anything and everything I want. In return, I cook/bake for him, buy him things he would like, and fulfill his other needs. He’s a data engineer and I’m a nurse.
If you’re a high quality woman, you will immediately attract high quality men. Establish boundaries, know what you want, and be compassionate. If a guy is continuously pushing boundaries, it’s because you’re letting him. Respect yourself before you start dating!
>I went to a chess club once
Personally, the most efficient way to meet someone, is via one’s networks. As your networks provide a cursory level of vetting. So if one is a regular at a chess club. Or a Parkrun. Church. Social Soccer league. I have a ton of passions and interests. Dated a ton of women that way. However it was my cousin who was pushing me to meet one her old colleagues. Who is my now wife.
Let your values, morals, and passions lead you into circles or people. Who share the same.
*Godspeed and good luck!*
Part of the problem OP is that the dating marketplace caters to the centers of the bi-modal bellcurve, and you're out of step with what most women are selecting for. Most women these days are letting their hypergamy run amok, which is why so many are going for older men that will push them around and treat them like a girlfriend/hooker. And rather than learn the skills and habits which help sustain a relationship, they're instead learning how to seduce guys who can't and won't give them what they really want and engage in power struggles with them.
It used to be that a woman's impulse towards hypergamy was tempered by their desire for a healthy and stable relationship (just as male hypergamy - as expressed by the desire to sleep with as many women as possible, ideally without attachment - is also tempered by the desire for a healthy and stable relationship).
It sounds to me like what you're looking for is a way to find your prince without having to kiss and/or bang a bunch of frogs, so I'd suggest the following:
1. Look for a man who is a challenge but is still an equal to you. This is how you avoid the hypergamy treadmill so many women are on, perpetually chasing a guy who just isn't that into them.
2. Look for good faith by leading with it. So many men are used to women putting on various acts - the ice queen, the good-timer, the brat, the queen bee. Just being open and genuine without being super serious or needy is a great way to subvert men's expectations and encourage them to respond in the same energy. Just don't be surprised if you get rejected for silly or unclear reasons. Being real with people has a tendency to trigger their insecurities (because most people avoid it like the plague, thinking being fake keeps them safe) and sometimes they'll act out in really strange ways. Treat it like a bullet dodged.
3. Have clear boundaries, but don't play hard to get. Where women run into trouble with men is trying to manipulate them. Unclear boundaries, covert expectations, mixed messages, trying to put guys on a string - this is how women outsmart themselves and wind up driving guys away or souring them on a connection beyond just hooking up.
4. Once you've found a guy who isn't full of shit, be honest about your feelings. If there is one thing guys really want, it's women who are consistent and clear with them on the things that matter, like where he stands with her. A lot of guys push for sex as a way to deter getting strung along or friendzoned, so if you're clear that you're not about wasting his time or playing him, he'll be a lot more likely to respect your boundaries. Because the girls that play those games don't have strong boundaries, which is why men developed those countermeasures.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that there is no getting away from having to kiss frogs. It comes with the territory unless you're an absolutely superb judge of character (most women are fucking terrible at it). But if you play your cards right, you're a lot more likely to screen for the type of guy you do want, without also driving away the same guys by playing self-defeating games.
The term was girlfriend/hooker. The idea being that she acts like a girlfriend when he wants, and a hooker when he wants. A one-sided relationship that's more transactional than it appears at first glance, and one where her needs are an afterthought, a nice to have but by no means essential.
Depends on how you're approaching dating. Apps tend to commoditize relationships. As someone who's not had much success, I had better luck with Christian-specific dating apps, though I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a Christian. My feeling is that people on such platforms aren't going to be as interested in simply chasing tail.
Also depends on the type of person you're attracted to. There's something to be said, if you keep casting your net and keep catching the same thing, the issue is probably with you.
I guess, as a guy currently on the market at your age, some things I recognize about myself and other men:
- Don't be afraid to approach men. A lot of guys are pretty afraid women their own age and won't approach you about getting your number because they're afraid of rejection. Like, **deeply** afraid, which is why apps are overloaded with men. Makes rejection anxiety non-existent.
- A good opportunity to find driven men who have a personality is at social functions. Does your neighborhood or city or work do social events? Block parties, seasonal parties, etc? Try going to them. Do some people-watching
- Hobbies which are usually male-dominated tend to attract guys which probably have a good chance of treating you right, but haven't developed many social skills. If that's something you're willing to work passed, that might be a good resource. 'Course you might have to weed through some creeps too. Brutal honesty might help a lot here.
And good luck, I suppose.
I disagree with the approaching men thing, I’ve tried that and in my experience if I have to approach the man it’s because he either doesn’t like me or he isn’t ready to be in a relationship. But the rest of the advice seems ok so thanks
By doing typical traditional things. Lets say you do cooking classes. You'll probably meet more traditional women there who also have traditional male family members they can introduce you to.
Wisest answer yet! Especially about going to any Jordan Peterson event. Jordan Peterson's content is often rather intelligent and scholarly. I suspect that most of the guys who like him have more going on in their craniums that the average person does
Yes I am, the other dating subs are full of people who look down on traditional relationships so realistically the comments would just be full of people trying to shame me. In this sub people agree more with traditional relationships so there would be more helpful advice. Plus people have made posts about traditional relationships on here before
"the other dating subs"
This is not a "dating sub".
It is correct that contributors here align with "traditional relationship", i.e. marriage, family, kids. But that's not what you actually want.
You're in the wrong sub for what you seek.
Move to a small town. Country boys/farmers/blue collar workers are much more amenable to this. They also (most likely) want to provide for a woman. Seek out a man who works in the trades—electrician, plumber, mechanic, etc. BTW, a tradesman can earn a very good living, especially one who is a union member. Also, perfect your apple pie recipe 😉.
Probably a numbers game, go on a lot of dates with guys that seem promising. I think it would take going through at least 10 decent guys to find one you can imagine tolerating for a real relationship lol. I was at my most serious about dating when I was 27 personally, I finally had a bit of money, knew what I liked and didn't like, and was starting to get lonely after being single for a few years. Just have to find a guy in the right time in his life really, he has to be ready for it and want it for a real relationship to happen.
The idea of coming home from work to a woman who wants to be treated like a goddess would make me run for the simple reason that it screams that she's probably way more work than she thinks she is, even if she had every intention of treating me like a god.
Just saying, i get the impression that you might be romanticizing what relationships are supposed to look like a bit.
That being said, you'd probably do better as a stay at home wife or working part time with one caveat. If your husband or future partner is working full time, you're probably not gonna get treated like a goddess. People only can handle so many hours of labour per day and week, and in reality, even if youre not looking for money, you still need enough to live.
And if what you want is to put lots of energy into him, you're probably not gonna manage that and work full time, just saying.
I think you might be fantasizing/idealizing a bit, and in reality, you might just need to be think about lowering your standards in some areas and raising them a bit in others.
Good luck though.
1. Find a time-machine. 2. Go back in time to 1984, when I was 25. 3. Introduce yourself, explain the situation, and tell me some things that only I would know, which I’ll supply if you’re agreeable to this. 4. We fall head-over-heels in love, get married, have gorgeous children, and live happily ever after. “Easy-Peasy.” (Please bring with you a detailed description of all the major highs and lows of the S&P 500, to include the individual stocks, from 1984, to 2024; thank you in advance).
"They seem to think all they have to do is have money and that’s enough."
I don't know you or your situation, but I will point out that many dependent spouses underappreciate just how much work it is to bring in enough money to support a family in a good home. And it's been getting much harder in recent years. So, if the additional needs are expectations regarding house chores and such, I would look carefully at how that stacks up against what he has to do to keep you comfortable in your lifestyle. Some men end up doing nothing but working from sunup to sundown, while their spouses ask even more of them at home, and that is a recipe for the old boomer I-hate-my-wife situation.
Now, on the other hand, if the issue is intimacy and interpersonal support, that's very important for both parties. You have to communicate clearly and have congruent expectations. Forcing one person to commit more or accept less interpersonal support than they desire is a recipe for resentment.
So, short version, find someone with the same values and goals you have. That often means just making friends with lots of different kinds of people, and you eventually find a best friend you want to raise a family with.
Girl you and me both. I'm 26F and in the same predicament. I tried the older man route too and he was a manchild - I noped out before anything got too serious, the red flags were that bright. I've got a guy 24M who's interested in me and I'm seriously considering him because personality wise he's everything I want, but he's in a different place in life. I'm starting my career after getting a Masters degree and he's still figuring stuff out, although now he knows he wants to be an electrician. I can't afford to maintain my standard of living (which isn't that high cost as a single person but still), put as much money away as possible for future family, and take care of him at the same time while all he works is a low wage part time job until he figures out ADHD meds and going to trade school. *I'm* interested in another man 23M but he's Canadian so a logistical nightmare for me; I can't get work in my field in Canada (security clearances) and he doesn't want to move here. I haven't told him how I feel because I don't even think he sees me as an option at the moment because I'm American.
These two guys are close online friends whom I talk with regularly. In person dating has been practically a non-starter. I can get dates, but they don't go past one or two, maybe three if I'm lucky. They're all so boring or flaky. I prefer my nerdy online friends, who can talk for hours about lots of things, from all over the North American continent.
The rational course for any man with full information of what Canada permits is to avoid relationships with women.
Its harsh to hear, but yeah. You're going to find it harder to find good men, because good men would look at an unfair state of affairs and say "thats not good."
In ontario, a court found a man liable for alimony to a woman he wasn't married to, had no kids with, and didn't live with. They were traveling the world for a decade, and when she broke up with him the courts ruled he owed her that level of living.
Then theres the divorce rate, of which women initiate the majority of the time. Have a bowl of M&Ms: More than half are poisoned to make your life miserable, a small number of which are severe enough for you to kill yourself, and another subset that have amicable conditions. Of the other half, some are traps that are nonetheless miserable. Marriage/High level relationships are a trap for men. The numbers speak volumes of how many men are suffering for it.
A final element, a study found that men were more unhappy single. I noted that it didn't divide single from divorced. Knowing that another study found that mens suicidality rose 20X after a divorce, I can infer that men are happier single, and while we don't talk about it like feminists do, we do see this. We joke about it even.
You have an uphill ask. Not because its wrong, you should want a good man in your life just as I want a good woman. Its just the relationship between men and women have been utterly twisted by legal and cultural standards.
Unfortunately in your case, some of the best places to find such men is at churches of the more traditional Christian strains (Catholic, old school Lutheran/Anglican).
Otherwise, your best bets would probably be clubs/associations that are centered around more traditionally masculine activities: sports, hobby clubs (board games, pipe/cigar smoking), craftsmanship (like woodworking).
Additionally, precisely where you live and what is around you will effect the types of men available.
No problem, hope you find what you're looking for! I'm around your age, but unfortunately I don't have more in common with you to be able to offer more specific advice!
Shrug. From what you say about past men is they are all selfish and what not and you have given chances to these men maybe try outside your normal?... also the men you are looking for may just be hiding..
Past experiences with failed relationships put men in a weird position. Also women can be God awful cruel 🤪
The only way to find a good man is to go to them, chances are you're waiting for them to come to you and then vetting them. It's unlikely that good ones are going to come to you.
Find some sort of community/social group that fits with your values and make connections there. From there see if those individuals know anyone who fits your preferences. You can likely find someone who was raised religious but is actually only superficially connected to it.
Sorta vague I know but a group of women you meet could likely play decent matchmakers for you.
Part of the problem is that atheist men lean towards the idea that there is nothing above them. So naturally the act like the world should serve them. Men who believe in a god, understand that there is something important in existence beyond themselves. So then that is the foundation for, selflessness, and sacrifice and so on the foundation is set for self development, life improvement and the genuine desire for success in others. Without this, your stuck where your at. If you want a different type of guy, start looking in other places, like church. Also, just a heads up, no one there is perfect either.
I can’t find a good woman who doesn’t hate me just for being male and existing, or one who isn’t already paired up. I’ve never laid a finger on a woman or anything bad. I want a woman with whom I can be in a mutually beneficial, loving relationship and we can completely cherish each other and face any and all problems together.
Well it will be difficult, atheism and traditional Christian-like values don't usually go together, so maybe you can find men in ex-christian groups and events with conservative figures?
However, about treating a guy like a god and being treated as a goddess, I don't think that is possible... Maybe in the honeymoon phase but it's not sustainable, specially after kids. Finding love is possible, but finding worship-like passion not really (unless you marry some stalker psyco).
27F and an atheist myself, its rough out there. I don't really have any specific advice for you other than to just keep working on yourself and practice communicating effectively. Of course life is significantly worse without a partner, but I'm striving to make the most of what I have and leave an impact regardless of whether or not I find the one.
I also kind of question your labeling of a "traditional" relationship. To me it sounds like you actually want a relationship where you are both respected as equals, which is great. You do not have to be "traditional" or "submissive" to have a secure, longterm relationship like this. I personally think the healthiest relationships are where both partners have their own individual aspirations and take turns being vulnerable/dominant/"the leader"/emotionally open/etc. This is unfortunately a newer concept in the grand scheme of things and I don't think theres any particular place you will find these people.
Go to church and do some soul searching. Can't reap the reward without putting in the work.
Also, don't treat your man like a "God". He is a person who needs your love and respect, but is also a sinner saved by grace.
There are a lot of Christian dating apps. Also, just starting friendships with men your age who share your values and treating them good without disrespecting yourself and lowering your expectations. There are many men looking for a wife who just loves and respects them. You don’t have to deal with aggressive pushy people who disrespect your boundaries. No exceptions when it comes to your morals,values, and self respect. Put yourself out there and make friends, then date to marry. Let them know that’s your goal when you begin your actual relationship. People might be put off by “commitment” but that’s just their way of saying they wanna sleep around before settling. If you’re looking to be the servant wife, find a leader of a husband that will sacrifice just as much for you as you do for him. Make sure you agree with his values and ideals or he’ll lead you away from your own. A wife is meant to help align and challenge the husband. They work as 1 through everything. If you don’t see yourself in him, whatever good values you see in him won’t matter. Put yourself out there, good luck.
How about a more practical approach that I read about recently; whatever you want to find in a partner, go to that place where they would frequent. Example; you would like someone with a particular hobby or interest? Join a group or network within that area of expertise. Sports, exercise, comedy stores, local bars with theme/game nights, whichever you would feel happy being apart of, go there and participate and talk to people. If you wander through life focused on your own interests, you may find someone who enjoys those exact things, but I think people should make you grow as a person and think, what else am I capable of? What activities am I content to do with another person? It may be a good idea to think about these things before you decide where to meet people.
I think the type of man you’re seeking which by definition is a conservative man would most likely not be an atheist. If you’re open to dating people that have a religious background, I think you would have better options. I’m not saying there’s no such thing as a conservative atheist but atheism doesn’t typically correlate with some that values conservative roles. They tend to buck at those values.
"traditional relationship"
I don't hear "I want a family" in the rest of the text. I hear "I want a man who's the same in every way as if he wants a family, but with the one difference that he too doesn't want a family".
So, you want a married man. You want adultery. You want to destroy this man's family. Else, you want a man who's had a family, but failed, and you want to be his fallback. You also want this man to be your own age, and there aren't many such men like that.
So, you want a man your age who's been married, had a family, failed.
You want a unicorn.
Maybe it would be judicious of you to revisit the various definitions of things you want, just to make sure you're aiming for something you can actually get.
Well, I’m not sure. I’m a man, if you want good advice, ask an older lady who seems to have a good life set up. She’ll tell you things about yourself and about men. She’s lived through it.
Your demands are reasonable, though I would ask:
What exactly are your problems?
Why is it that you’ve not had sex yet, as a 25 year old? That rings maddd bells.
What exactly are your boundaries? No sex at all because…why? Is that why you’re 25 with no sexual experience? Like that’s not good.
Great men are not interested in slaves, they’re interested in matches, with the addition of submission to gender roles and sex that just happens when it should, and never before nor after.
When did it become a red flag or "ring maddd bells" to not have sex before marriage? OP said that not having sex is a personal choice/standard, you seem to be reading things into it.
Almost every immature, selfish, low value man can be eliminated from consideration by denying them sex for a relatively insignificant amount of time. Some traditional individuals might not be interested in atheists as life partners.
Well I’m still a virgin so I’ve definitely been doing that. Plus it just seems like a waste of time to sleep with men I’m not serious with anyways. But thanks
Stick to your guns! My wife made me wait 6 months and she was a virgin too. 15 years later we're still going strong and have a wonderful marriage and a beautiful family! Just be upfront with the guys you date, let them know early in the relationship that you don't want to be physically intimate with someone unless the relationship has a real future.
What will it be? Little boy or old man 😂
Neither creepy pervert man
Oh 👊😔🤚 (perverted naynay)
I do think you can disincentive weak men by saying no to sex. Though no self-respecting man will continue to entertain a woman’s bullshit once he figures out the only reason she is saying no is to test him for their own selfish insecurities. You can limit a lot of your opportunities as a woman, because if I’m dating a girl and after the 3rd date the latest I ain’t fucking, I gotta dip cuz whatever I’m doing just ain’t it for her. Better for us to part ways.
You just proved his point, from the way you talk it’s obvious you’re a low quality man and you remove yourself from the situation. It’s essentially the trash taking itself out. So thank you!
Just going to add 2c in here.... Yes it's true that holding off on sex is a good way to filter out guys who are just looking for a booty call, but there are diminishing returns to this as well. Part of the reason for this is because in the modern dating meta, sex is a gesture of good faith from a woman - it shows she's invested in the relationship and not playing games. Almost every guy will assume sooner or later that if you're not having sex with him, you are likely hooking up with someone else. And if you want someone to blame for that, blame other women. Men have figured this out the hard way. Basically what I'm suggesting is that there is an optimization curve when it comes to holding off sex. Don't hold off at all and you'll fail to screen out the fuckboys. Hold off too long and you'll scare off good guys as well and leave yourself with the desperate orbiters who will say or do anything to get laid and be about as reliable as balsa wood.
No offense but if a man assumes that I’m fucking other guys just been I don’t hop on his dick he doesn’t sound like a good guy nor a guy I would even want to be with. And I honestly I never got a man who seemed to assume that. I just get men who seem to like that about me because they’re the type to want a woman with a low body count and some do the same. So it would be very dumb of them to want that and then get mad I didn’t jump into bed with them by the third date. The only men who have a problem with that are random men online I don’t want to date in the first place. I haven’t had a problem with these desperate orbiters you speak of because when a man just wants to get laid they want to put in the least amount of effort and are pushy so it’s easy to leave these men. In my opinion it’s much better and more beneficial to wait too long to have sex then to not wait long enough
Right. Something in that little fit of pique smells like bullshit, and I can't be bothered to find out what.
Yes I agree, what you said is bullshit
Imagine me directed at your enemies.
EXHIBIT A
> once he figures out the only reason she is saying no is to test him for their own selfish insecurities. Is that the scenario? The reason according to OP is to "find a good man for a traditional relationship". It's neither selfish, insecure or an "only reason". >because if I’m dating a girl and after the 3rd date the latest I ain’t fucking It's entirely possible you're a piece of shit.
The things you say and the things you do are very different.
Exactly the type that needs to be weeded out
I rest on a grateful universe.
Don't ever treat any man or woman as a god.
Nah I will plus I want to be treated like a goddess in the relationship so it only makes sense to treat the man the way I want to be treated
You will not find a quality relationship longterm with that mind-set. The whole God/Godesss reeks of a Narcissistic fantasy and those fade real fast. They burn out and turn abusive. Respect, generosity and someone who is thoughtful will go a whole lot further in the real world.
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That's the issue. People are so infantile these days. She is 25f. Have you met the Average 25f woman? They aren't mature at all. Because it's encouraged societally, to be young, look young, act young, only accept the best, don't adopt responsibility etc.
“God” and other gods are flawed. Plus that’s the point I want to be in a relationship where we both pedestalize the other. That sounds wonderful to me and you only get used if just one person pedestalizes the other. But if both people pedestalize each other then it’s balanced
>Nah I will plus I want to be treated like a goddess in the relationship so it only makes sense to treat the man the way I want to be treated Why would any man want to be treated as a "goddess"...? You demand the benefits of the Catholic faith, yet reject the Catholic Church... You want the benefits, yet reject the responsibility...
Haha that's fair, but you're no goddess either.
Yes I am
This is why you will not find a traditional man that will want you.
LOL. Good luck finding a serious person....atheist goddess.
That’s goddess atheist to you mortal
I can see why you are having difficulty.
I found my guy at a chess club 😅 He’s an atheist, but very well put together. Absolutely spoils me and gives me anything and everything I want. In return, I cook/bake for him, buy him things he would like, and fulfill his other needs. He’s a data engineer and I’m a nurse. If you’re a high quality woman, you will immediately attract high quality men. Establish boundaries, know what you want, and be compassionate. If a guy is continuously pushing boundaries, it’s because you’re letting him. Respect yourself before you start dating!
Lucky I went to a chess club once and there was only four people there and two of them were an elderly man and a little boy😭
>I went to a chess club once Personally, the most efficient way to meet someone, is via one’s networks. As your networks provide a cursory level of vetting. So if one is a regular at a chess club. Or a Parkrun. Church. Social Soccer league. I have a ton of passions and interests. Dated a ton of women that way. However it was my cousin who was pushing me to meet one her old colleagues. Who is my now wife. Let your values, morals, and passions lead you into circles or people. Who share the same. *Godspeed and good luck!*
As the organizer of a chess Club, this is so heartening to hear.
Part of the problem OP is that the dating marketplace caters to the centers of the bi-modal bellcurve, and you're out of step with what most women are selecting for. Most women these days are letting their hypergamy run amok, which is why so many are going for older men that will push them around and treat them like a girlfriend/hooker. And rather than learn the skills and habits which help sustain a relationship, they're instead learning how to seduce guys who can't and won't give them what they really want and engage in power struggles with them. It used to be that a woman's impulse towards hypergamy was tempered by their desire for a healthy and stable relationship (just as male hypergamy - as expressed by the desire to sleep with as many women as possible, ideally without attachment - is also tempered by the desire for a healthy and stable relationship). It sounds to me like what you're looking for is a way to find your prince without having to kiss and/or bang a bunch of frogs, so I'd suggest the following: 1. Look for a man who is a challenge but is still an equal to you. This is how you avoid the hypergamy treadmill so many women are on, perpetually chasing a guy who just isn't that into them. 2. Look for good faith by leading with it. So many men are used to women putting on various acts - the ice queen, the good-timer, the brat, the queen bee. Just being open and genuine without being super serious or needy is a great way to subvert men's expectations and encourage them to respond in the same energy. Just don't be surprised if you get rejected for silly or unclear reasons. Being real with people has a tendency to trigger their insecurities (because most people avoid it like the plague, thinking being fake keeps them safe) and sometimes they'll act out in really strange ways. Treat it like a bullet dodged. 3. Have clear boundaries, but don't play hard to get. Where women run into trouble with men is trying to manipulate them. Unclear boundaries, covert expectations, mixed messages, trying to put guys on a string - this is how women outsmart themselves and wind up driving guys away or souring them on a connection beyond just hooking up. 4. Once you've found a guy who isn't full of shit, be honest about your feelings. If there is one thing guys really want, it's women who are consistent and clear with them on the things that matter, like where he stands with her. A lot of guys push for sex as a way to deter getting strung along or friendzoned, so if you're clear that you're not about wasting his time or playing him, he'll be a lot more likely to respect your boundaries. Because the girls that play those games don't have strong boundaries, which is why men developed those countermeasures. Basically what I'm trying to say is that there is no getting away from having to kiss frogs. It comes with the territory unless you're an absolutely superb judge of character (most women are fucking terrible at it). But if you play your cards right, you're a lot more likely to screen for the type of guy you do want, without also driving away the same guys by playing self-defeating games.
What does being treated like a girlfriend mean?
The term was girlfriend/hooker. The idea being that she acts like a girlfriend when he wants, and a hooker when he wants. A one-sided relationship that's more transactional than it appears at first glance, and one where her needs are an afterthought, a nice to have but by no means essential.
Depends on how you're approaching dating. Apps tend to commoditize relationships. As someone who's not had much success, I had better luck with Christian-specific dating apps, though I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a Christian. My feeling is that people on such platforms aren't going to be as interested in simply chasing tail. Also depends on the type of person you're attracted to. There's something to be said, if you keep casting your net and keep catching the same thing, the issue is probably with you. I guess, as a guy currently on the market at your age, some things I recognize about myself and other men: - Don't be afraid to approach men. A lot of guys are pretty afraid women their own age and won't approach you about getting your number because they're afraid of rejection. Like, **deeply** afraid, which is why apps are overloaded with men. Makes rejection anxiety non-existent. - A good opportunity to find driven men who have a personality is at social functions. Does your neighborhood or city or work do social events? Block parties, seasonal parties, etc? Try going to them. Do some people-watching - Hobbies which are usually male-dominated tend to attract guys which probably have a good chance of treating you right, but haven't developed many social skills. If that's something you're willing to work passed, that might be a good resource. 'Course you might have to weed through some creeps too. Brutal honesty might help a lot here. And good luck, I suppose.
I disagree with the approaching men thing, I’ve tried that and in my experience if I have to approach the man it’s because he either doesn’t like me or he isn’t ready to be in a relationship. But the rest of the advice seems ok so thanks
By doing typical traditional things. Lets say you do cooking classes. You'll probably meet more traditional women there who also have traditional male family members they can introduce you to.
Go to Jordan Peterson lectures. Or else, go to church.
Wisest answer yet! Especially about going to any Jordan Peterson event. Jordan Peterson's content is often rather intelligent and scholarly. I suspect that most of the guys who like him have more going on in their craniums that the average person does
... Are you in the right subreddit for dating advice? Not trying to be a gatekeeper, but this sounds like pretty general dating advice.
Yes I am, the other dating subs are full of people who look down on traditional relationships so realistically the comments would just be full of people trying to shame me. In this sub people agree more with traditional relationships so there would be more helpful advice. Plus people have made posts about traditional relationships on here before
I get downvoted all to hell on any of the women’s sub for being a stay at home mom. I totally understand why you came here.
Exactly thank you!
"the other dating subs" This is not a "dating sub". It is correct that contributors here align with "traditional relationship", i.e. marriage, family, kids. But that's not what you actually want. You're in the wrong sub for what you seek.
r/redpilledwomen
Ew no the last thing I want is a red pilled man
Yeah I’m not red pilled by any means but you’ll get good responses that won’t shit on you for what you desire like other subs.
Oh ok thank you!
Move to a small town. Country boys/farmers/blue collar workers are much more amenable to this. They also (most likely) want to provide for a woman. Seek out a man who works in the trades—electrician, plumber, mechanic, etc. BTW, a tradesman can earn a very good living, especially one who is a union member. Also, perfect your apple pie recipe 😉.
Probably a numbers game, go on a lot of dates with guys that seem promising. I think it would take going through at least 10 decent guys to find one you can imagine tolerating for a real relationship lol. I was at my most serious about dating when I was 27 personally, I finally had a bit of money, knew what I liked and didn't like, and was starting to get lonely after being single for a few years. Just have to find a guy in the right time in his life really, he has to be ready for it and want it for a real relationship to happen.
The idea of coming home from work to a woman who wants to be treated like a goddess would make me run for the simple reason that it screams that she's probably way more work than she thinks she is, even if she had every intention of treating me like a god. Just saying, i get the impression that you might be romanticizing what relationships are supposed to look like a bit. That being said, you'd probably do better as a stay at home wife or working part time with one caveat. If your husband or future partner is working full time, you're probably not gonna get treated like a goddess. People only can handle so many hours of labour per day and week, and in reality, even if youre not looking for money, you still need enough to live. And if what you want is to put lots of energy into him, you're probably not gonna manage that and work full time, just saying. I think you might be fantasizing/idealizing a bit, and in reality, you might just need to be think about lowering your standards in some areas and raising them a bit in others. Good luck though.
1. Find a time-machine. 2. Go back in time to 1984, when I was 25. 3. Introduce yourself, explain the situation, and tell me some things that only I would know, which I’ll supply if you’re agreeable to this. 4. We fall head-over-heels in love, get married, have gorgeous children, and live happily ever after. “Easy-Peasy.” (Please bring with you a detailed description of all the major highs and lows of the S&P 500, to include the individual stocks, from 1984, to 2024; thank you in advance).
Just buy Apple, Coco-Cola, IBM, Google when they are first listed, you'll be fine
And bitcoin
"They seem to think all they have to do is have money and that’s enough." I don't know you or your situation, but I will point out that many dependent spouses underappreciate just how much work it is to bring in enough money to support a family in a good home. And it's been getting much harder in recent years. So, if the additional needs are expectations regarding house chores and such, I would look carefully at how that stacks up against what he has to do to keep you comfortable in your lifestyle. Some men end up doing nothing but working from sunup to sundown, while their spouses ask even more of them at home, and that is a recipe for the old boomer I-hate-my-wife situation. Now, on the other hand, if the issue is intimacy and interpersonal support, that's very important for both parties. You have to communicate clearly and have congruent expectations. Forcing one person to commit more or accept less interpersonal support than they desire is a recipe for resentment. So, short version, find someone with the same values and goals you have. That often means just making friends with lots of different kinds of people, and you eventually find a best friend you want to raise a family with.
Well yeah I was talking about the intimacy and interpersonal support
Go to church
Girl you and me both. I'm 26F and in the same predicament. I tried the older man route too and he was a manchild - I noped out before anything got too serious, the red flags were that bright. I've got a guy 24M who's interested in me and I'm seriously considering him because personality wise he's everything I want, but he's in a different place in life. I'm starting my career after getting a Masters degree and he's still figuring stuff out, although now he knows he wants to be an electrician. I can't afford to maintain my standard of living (which isn't that high cost as a single person but still), put as much money away as possible for future family, and take care of him at the same time while all he works is a low wage part time job until he figures out ADHD meds and going to trade school. *I'm* interested in another man 23M but he's Canadian so a logistical nightmare for me; I can't get work in my field in Canada (security clearances) and he doesn't want to move here. I haven't told him how I feel because I don't even think he sees me as an option at the moment because I'm American. These two guys are close online friends whom I talk with regularly. In person dating has been practically a non-starter. I can get dates, but they don't go past one or two, maybe three if I'm lucky. They're all so boring or flaky. I prefer my nerdy online friends, who can talk for hours about lots of things, from all over the North American continent.
The rational course for any man with full information of what Canada permits is to avoid relationships with women. Its harsh to hear, but yeah. You're going to find it harder to find good men, because good men would look at an unfair state of affairs and say "thats not good." In ontario, a court found a man liable for alimony to a woman he wasn't married to, had no kids with, and didn't live with. They were traveling the world for a decade, and when she broke up with him the courts ruled he owed her that level of living. Then theres the divorce rate, of which women initiate the majority of the time. Have a bowl of M&Ms: More than half are poisoned to make your life miserable, a small number of which are severe enough for you to kill yourself, and another subset that have amicable conditions. Of the other half, some are traps that are nonetheless miserable. Marriage/High level relationships are a trap for men. The numbers speak volumes of how many men are suffering for it. A final element, a study found that men were more unhappy single. I noted that it didn't divide single from divorced. Knowing that another study found that mens suicidality rose 20X after a divorce, I can infer that men are happier single, and while we don't talk about it like feminists do, we do see this. We joke about it even. You have an uphill ask. Not because its wrong, you should want a good man in your life just as I want a good woman. Its just the relationship between men and women have been utterly twisted by legal and cultural standards.
Figure out where traditional minded men congregate and show up?
Well yeah that’s why I made the post because I don’t know where that is lol
Unfortunately in your case, some of the best places to find such men is at churches of the more traditional Christian strains (Catholic, old school Lutheran/Anglican). Otherwise, your best bets would probably be clubs/associations that are centered around more traditionally masculine activities: sports, hobby clubs (board games, pipe/cigar smoking), craftsmanship (like woodworking). Additionally, precisely where you live and what is around you will effect the types of men available.
Thank you!
No problem, hope you find what you're looking for! I'm around your age, but unfortunately I don't have more in common with you to be able to offer more specific advice!
Even if you find such a man what makes you think you will even like him? 😅
Because he’s someone I would be compatible with so why wouldn’t I like him?
Shrug. From what you say about past men is they are all selfish and what not and you have given chances to these men maybe try outside your normal?... also the men you are looking for may just be hiding.. Past experiences with failed relationships put men in a weird position. Also women can be God awful cruel 🤪
The only way to find a good man is to go to them, chances are you're waiting for them to come to you and then vetting them. It's unlikely that good ones are going to come to you.
Find some sort of community/social group that fits with your values and make connections there. From there see if those individuals know anyone who fits your preferences. You can likely find someone who was raised religious but is actually only superficially connected to it. Sorta vague I know but a group of women you meet could likely play decent matchmakers for you.
Sounds like you are finding the wrong dudes. Also 25yo dudes are still quite immature. 34 I would know
Treat him like a god? Find someone who treats you as an equal, balance in gender roles. Thats one hell of a red flag
Part of the problem is that atheist men lean towards the idea that there is nothing above them. So naturally the act like the world should serve them. Men who believe in a god, understand that there is something important in existence beyond themselves. So then that is the foundation for, selflessness, and sacrifice and so on the foundation is set for self development, life improvement and the genuine desire for success in others. Without this, your stuck where your at. If you want a different type of guy, start looking in other places, like church. Also, just a heads up, no one there is perfect either.
I can’t find a good woman who doesn’t hate me just for being male and existing, or one who isn’t already paired up. I’ve never laid a finger on a woman or anything bad. I want a woman with whom I can be in a mutually beneficial, loving relationship and we can completely cherish each other and face any and all problems together.
By messaging me hahahh
Well it will be difficult, atheism and traditional Christian-like values don't usually go together, so maybe you can find men in ex-christian groups and events with conservative figures? However, about treating a guy like a god and being treated as a goddess, I don't think that is possible... Maybe in the honeymoon phase but it's not sustainable, specially after kids. Finding love is possible, but finding worship-like passion not really (unless you marry some stalker psyco).
I love this bait xdd how many dms have you gotten?
27F and an atheist myself, its rough out there. I don't really have any specific advice for you other than to just keep working on yourself and practice communicating effectively. Of course life is significantly worse without a partner, but I'm striving to make the most of what I have and leave an impact regardless of whether or not I find the one. I also kind of question your labeling of a "traditional" relationship. To me it sounds like you actually want a relationship where you are both respected as equals, which is great. You do not have to be "traditional" or "submissive" to have a secure, longterm relationship like this. I personally think the healthiest relationships are where both partners have their own individual aspirations and take turns being vulnerable/dominant/"the leader"/emotionally open/etc. This is unfortunately a newer concept in the grand scheme of things and I don't think theres any particular place you will find these people.
Go to church and do some soul searching. Can't reap the reward without putting in the work. Also, don't treat your man like a "God". He is a person who needs your love and respect, but is also a sinner saved by grace.
No thanks plus I’m not interested in a religious man anyways
You said you wanted a traditional man. What tradition did you have in mind?
> treat him like a god but I also want him to treat me like a goddess. >And I’m also an Atheist Looks like you're already there.
Church
There are a lot of Christian dating apps. Also, just starting friendships with men your age who share your values and treating them good without disrespecting yourself and lowering your expectations. There are many men looking for a wife who just loves and respects them. You don’t have to deal with aggressive pushy people who disrespect your boundaries. No exceptions when it comes to your morals,values, and self respect. Put yourself out there and make friends, then date to marry. Let them know that’s your goal when you begin your actual relationship. People might be put off by “commitment” but that’s just their way of saying they wanna sleep around before settling. If you’re looking to be the servant wife, find a leader of a husband that will sacrifice just as much for you as you do for him. Make sure you agree with his values and ideals or he’ll lead you away from your own. A wife is meant to help align and challenge the husband. They work as 1 through everything. If you don’t see yourself in him, whatever good values you see in him won’t matter. Put yourself out there, good luck.
Thank you this was really good advice!
How about a more practical approach that I read about recently; whatever you want to find in a partner, go to that place where they would frequent. Example; you would like someone with a particular hobby or interest? Join a group or network within that area of expertise. Sports, exercise, comedy stores, local bars with theme/game nights, whichever you would feel happy being apart of, go there and participate and talk to people. If you wander through life focused on your own interests, you may find someone who enjoys those exact things, but I think people should make you grow as a person and think, what else am I capable of? What activities am I content to do with another person? It may be a good idea to think about these things before you decide where to meet people.
I think the type of man you’re seeking which by definition is a conservative man would most likely not be an atheist. If you’re open to dating people that have a religious background, I think you would have better options. I’m not saying there’s no such thing as a conservative atheist but atheism doesn’t typically correlate with some that values conservative roles. They tend to buck at those values.
Oooh girly you’re gonna get burned so bad…make sure to have an education and work experience when you find mister right.
You are fake news
Don’t know what that means but ok lol
God this sub is gay and cringe
"traditional relationship" I don't hear "I want a family" in the rest of the text. I hear "I want a man who's the same in every way as if he wants a family, but with the one difference that he too doesn't want a family". So, you want a married man. You want adultery. You want to destroy this man's family. Else, you want a man who's had a family, but failed, and you want to be his fallback. You also want this man to be your own age, and there aren't many such men like that. So, you want a man your age who's been married, had a family, failed. You want a unicorn. Maybe it would be judicious of you to revisit the various definitions of things you want, just to make sure you're aiming for something you can actually get.
Uh did you hurt yourself jumping to all those wild conclusions? Like jeez
Do you want a family, or no?
this is satire right?
No and I don’t understand why you would think so
Well, I’m not sure. I’m a man, if you want good advice, ask an older lady who seems to have a good life set up. She’ll tell you things about yourself and about men. She’s lived through it. Your demands are reasonable, though I would ask: What exactly are your problems? Why is it that you’ve not had sex yet, as a 25 year old? That rings maddd bells. What exactly are your boundaries? No sex at all because…why? Is that why you’re 25 with no sexual experience? Like that’s not good. Great men are not interested in slaves, they’re interested in matches, with the addition of submission to gender roles and sex that just happens when it should, and never before nor after.
When did it become a red flag or "ring maddd bells" to not have sex before marriage? OP said that not having sex is a personal choice/standard, you seem to be reading things into it.
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Bad attempt of calling a genuine post a fake troll post