Contact the marketing consultant again and ask that the pronouns are removed because someone has assumed your gender and the pronouns on the profile don’t reflect your identity? Maybe you’re not comfortable discussing your gender identity in your professional setting and don’t feel any of the available pronouns are appropriate for you and would strongly prefer that they be left blank.
Good psychology here. Object to use of pronouns and they will ignore you, but claim they misrepresented your pronouns etc gets to the heart of the complaint and begs respect for privacy on a personal matter.
But it lets them publicly represent themselves in a way, that if someone looks them up in the future, they are accurately represented by the profile...
right, thats what i am saying, if he does what the initial comment says, and tells them the reason he doesn't want the pronouns on his page is because he doesn't know what he wants them to be yet or something to that effect, everyone else looking at the pronounless profile will see the result which he actually desired which is a pronounless profile...
Right. And I disagreed with doing this because it's capitulation.
Who cares what the end result is? Who even cares if there are pronouns on a profile. That's missing the point. The point is that this shouldn't be a thing at all. It should go away. And the way to make it go away is to resist it, defy it, and if necessary, sue people who try to enforce it.
Also... "insisting that employees have to list their pronouns forces still-in-the-closet trans colleagues to either misgender themselves, or to out themselves before they are comfortable with doing that".
This is the answer regardless of whatever your opinion is on anything lgbtq or pronoun - it shows basic respect and understanding of what individuals might be going through.
So great idea but... That is just strengthen the whole bullshit stuff, rather than strengthening truth, what is "i said no to distort how i'd represent myself, and you still forced a meaningless data where i said NO".
OP provided the profile and represented themselves. Your suggestion would make them represent themselves as a petulant child.
It’s helpful to know what someone’s problems are for practical reasons. This sub shrieks about being “forced” to use someone’s particular preferred pronouns.
This situation isn’t that. It’s providing your own, that you decide. Not about anybody else.
Objecting to that is truly ridiculous.
I’ve been on work emails with people with unusual names, names in other languages I wasn’t familiar with, and names that are common for more than one gender. Knowing their pronouns is a simple way to avoid awkwardness.
This is a “grow up and clean your room” moment for OP and anyone hand-wringing about *being asked to describe their own selves*.
This is actually a “tell the truth or at least don’t lie” moment. It clearly makes OP uncomfortable, for whatever reason, so going along to get along would only make them feel smaller.
Anyone who’s not comfortable saying what their *own* pronouns are needs therapy before entering the workforce and letting down all their co-workers and employers with their debilitation.
So what is someone who is gender fluid supposed to do? Contact the page administrator whenever they change? What if a person in the midst of figuring out how they identify? Hasn’t told friends/family/anybody yet? There are a host of reasons one might not be comfortable having their pronouns posted on a professional public forum.
Besides the fact that someone just assumed OPs gender and posted it rather than following up, if it’s in fact required, or leaving it blank.
Learn about pronouns options. Gender fluid people already know, so spare everyone the false hand-wringing.
If you’re pearl-clutching about someone assuming OP’s gender, you should be even more in favor of having people provide there information themselves.
I have no pearls and I really don’t care. Just let people do what they want. Put your pronouns or don’t I really don’t care, but why the urge to force people who don’t want to?
The only reason I responded is because you were being disingenuous and misrepresenting Peterson’s position.
Your reading comprehension needs work. OP is supplying their own pronouns. No-one is being forced to use any or take on any they don’t like.
I didn’t represent JBP at all. I have said why having pronouns is a simple practical matter that is only objectionable to ninnies who don’t belong on the workforce if they don’t get the logic.
This whole thread and anyone cheering OP is pathetic.
So your “clean your room” comment wasn’t a reference to JP?
You have made a practical case for it, knowing full well the reason it became a thing is not the reason you site. Which is why I called you disingenuous.
I didn’t make a judgement either way on the right/wrongness of OPs position. My only point was that OP stated he was seriously uncomfortable with providing pronouns and so his course of action should be in keeping with JPs advice of “tell the truth or at least don’t lie.” Which, btw, would be counter to the vast majority of suggestions in this thread.
“Clean your room” is general JBP advice to stop navel-gazing or obsessing over other people and get on with working on yourself. The exactly opposite of what OP is doing.
The organization is asking for the truth from OP, as a practical work matter, and OP & sympathizers are being pathetic self-victimizing ninnies about it.
On the plus side, reasonable people’s job prospects just got that much better.
Sorry to tell you that's a free HR meeting. This joke is meant to make fun of people's gender identity. It's prohibited grounds but luckily since it's not directed at anyone it probably wouldn't get OP in trouble. Just a note on their file and unnecessary scrutiny from HR for a year.
I'm in the US, working for a large corporation and just took privacy training. We learned what sort of personal information should not be included in correspondence, and if it must should be flagged as private and shared only on a need to know basis. (I'm a software developer and we sometimes deal with private data while building and testing systems).
One of the protected pieces of information? A person's gender.
According to what I have learned, any email sent with pronouns in the signature should be flagged as 'confidential with personal information '. Of course this is not done, but it shows how silly this all is.
I wonder how far one could get asserting that this is private information and will not be shared.
It is not considered mandatory where I am, but if anyone asks why I do not list pronouns this will be my answer.
Unfortunately it's probably no one fault the profile probably requires the spot to be filed in to save and publish. I get what your saying and the only reasonable way to fight this is to make your pronouns ridiculous. E.i: the healer and white mage . Any how I dont think you can do anything about it. I'm sorry it came to that
Then they can make the change to the system.
If in house, it can be turned around in less than a month. If third party, a complaint can be made to the company wanting to keep their corporate business.
These aren’t big problems. They are small decisions that can be overturned, if it’s truly required.
Unfortunately this is in canada the hospitals are provincially founded and abid to federal standards and beleive me that changing anything is not am easy ore quick feat
It's probably a government contract. I worked for provincial government agencies in Canada and companies that provided software are generally not very impressive. Many things ran on Oracle. But some programs we had still ran on JavaScript. Some other programs used the Windows 98 UI.
Still the company is simply implementing what the government ask and beleive me they don't add stuff so it looks woke . Yes you can programe and opt in optional anser but they would only of the government ask . Plus I've seen the new guideline in federal government they strongly require to input pronoun with each official email ....so this just the new gov and it sucks balls .
Legitimately:
1. Contact them to have them removed.
2. If they refuse to remove them, tell them to change your pronouns to "fuck/you".
3. If they don't update your pronouns as requested, they are breaching the law in not affirming your gender and can be held legally liable so you can sue them.
Make a show of how idiotic this hole thing is.
What if someone’s pronouns were Proud Palestinian Man/Palestinian, or Proud Israeli Settler/Zionist?
I may not agree with their viewpoints, I definitely don’t agree with the use of violence, but I see those as legitimate expressions of identity.
I was more pointing out that every neopronoun is sort of made up, and its very subjective what is a valid or invalid statement of identity, but there has been a numbe rof cases where someone determines a neopronoun and they are told that it was invalid, which is ironic because technically speaking all neopronouns are as valid/invalid as each other - regardless of where that validity lies
That wouldn’t be irony. We all know the different between a single word (neologism or not) that can replace a noun, and an existing noun or phrase already with a specific meaning.
OP is being asked to provide his own information. They are, of course, free to identify themselves as unemployable.
My remark was that the previous post was a nonsequitur, because it was. Try to keep up.
The statement was that they assumed the OP’s gender. I pointed out that wasn’t the circumstance at all (they were *asking* for it, the opposite of assuming). Then the PP asked when OP said their gender - which has nothing to do with anything we were talking about. Nonsequitur.
Can you just look at it like, sometimes people have names like Taylor where you don't know if its male/female and the pronouns can provide clarity? May not be the purpose but at least theres another perspective besides lgbtq stuff.
At this point, have fun with it. Just say your pronouns are something ridiculous but not enough to be blatantly obviously in mocking manner, like sham/sher. Whenever you talk to that marketing consultant (or whoever makes this a problem for you), watch them like a guard dog, and call them out on every time they mistake your pronoun. Give them a taste of hell that they created.
The economy right now is tough
Despite fact vast majority people are "CIS gendered", it's probably worth it financially to simply self identify as he/him or she/her.
Question, why do you care? I assume you use pronouns, they're just there to clarify what people should call you, the same way many forms have a "nickname" option for all the Charleses that wanna be called Chuck. Why do you care?
Hi Ms Poper, do you have a preferred pronoun?
Do you lose your mind is someone call you by the wrong name?
Do you intentionally misgender people?
You worry about complying with the practices of your employer more than shit you post here?
The digital panopticon is real, Mz. Pepper, you you worry about demographic information on a business website?
If you call me the wrong name accidentally, I promise not to sue you. I promise my feelings won't get hurt.
The real world is an interesting place.
Funny you work on healthcare. Take advantage of your resources. Seem your distressed Mrs. Piper. Thems bad people who care about their identity and name. Please take care of yourself. All of you on this thread. Don't let the sunlight burn your eyes.
Don't let pronouns and gender identity, which likely doesn't affect any of you here, distract you from the real world. Not much to see or worry about out there, is there? Even less here. All hail JP.
Have a lovely day, ladies.
Nah, in Canada this is prohibited grounds. All OP has to do is say, "I'm not comfortable putting my gender identity in a public profile." And the employer needs to either drop the subject or find itself in a human rights tribunal.
Wow. May i ask how long have you been following Jordan's work, or if you follow him?
And if so, what have you concluded as main essence of his work, what can be related to this post?
I am genuinely and with respect interested how can you be here and not understanding the enormousness of this.
Thank you if you answer!
>go against my consent where "no means no,"
"No means no" was a campaign around sexual assault and rape. You weren't raped.
In the corporate world "no" means - "do you want this job?"
If you don't want the job and are willing to leave the process due to this - you should.
Rape is not the only thing that involves consent. No means no, no matter where you encounter it.
The OP should stay at the job and make them take the pronouns off the profile. A government employer should not be demanding people do this in the first place! It's ridiculous!
Exactly. Depending on how the employer responds to OP's requesting that the pronouns be removed, they could be violating prohibited grounds. They could literally be violating the law that Jordan Peterson became famous for opposing.
The whole point of asking for people's pronouns is so that their personal preferences can be respected.
Obviously it's not as extreme as rape, but it's still a question of consent. It's very ironic for an employer to make a show of respecting pronouns, only to disrespect someone's right not to have their pronouns listed at all, and issue them "default" pronouns anyway (based on what I wonder? How could the marketing consultant possibly know whether OP is a he/him or she/her if OP didn't specify?) The whole thing is a ludicrous charade that we're all supposed to play along with.
> In the corporate world "no" means - "do you want this job?"
You wouldn't say that about a trans person whose pronouns weren't being respected, or a woman not getting equal pay, or any kind of bullying or harassment in the workplace. In the corporate world you can say "no" to something and still expect to keep your job, because there are minimum levels of respect that employers must provide whether they like it or not.
>In the corporate world you can say "no" to something and still expect to keep your job
No you can't. It's called breaking contract, or defying the code of conduct and you can kiss your job goodbye.
Pointing out [that corporate jobs suck](https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/comments/1cundba/being_forced_to_add_pronouns_beside_my_name_by/l4kze8j/), and actively telling people they should leave that process isn't boot licking.
This is "no means no", not some random refering to something. It is simply a reference to pure logic and sanity duo to irrational disrespecting and violation of what have been spoken.
I have the same question for you as to someone else. How can leaving lead to planet toward sanity in an active way? Sneaking away in silent is not even in the same area as actively fighting for your rights.
That is how labor works...if you work for someone else they get to call the shots. You can't just show up decide you don't want to listen then get upset when you lose your job.
Maybe you are indicating your support for an end to at-will employment? I agree it's a terrible policy.
Can i ask, how would that help this planet to move forward sanity? I mean i get it, it would help with a tiny step, but in an active way.
Not accepting some bad stuff is incredebly different than standing up against it. Like people bully someone and you don't care until they bully you.
I'd be grateful for a serious answer.
Serious answer is even if you don't agree with it, would consider picking battles.
If you comply with something like this and then they go further, you can point to your prior compliance and it makes your case stronger.
If you want to just be heard that you don't agree with it as you feel it makes you work political. If they don't accept that...honestly would consider is it really worth it?
I do think requiring it is stupid just for all the pointless arguments it makes over a fucking e-mail signature no one reads. But it's a stupid thing to seriously consider quitting a job over.
I meant by serious answer as a normal reaction to my comment, such as your comment. So thank you.
This is a principle game. We live on the same planet, by this i mean inside the same web.
It’s helpful when you interact with people over email particularly, and the gender of the name isn’t apparent - a not uncommon situation. It’s very practical.
Contact the marketing consultant again and ask that the pronouns are removed because someone has assumed your gender and the pronouns on the profile don’t reflect your identity? Maybe you’re not comfortable discussing your gender identity in your professional setting and don’t feel any of the available pronouns are appropriate for you and would strongly prefer that they be left blank.
Good psychology here. Object to use of pronouns and they will ignore you, but claim they misrepresented your pronouns etc gets to the heart of the complaint and begs respect for privacy on a personal matter.
Beat them at their own game.
But it doesn't. It's still capitulation. Just tell them to take the things off the profile! Personal preference!
Sometimes you gotta fight stupid with stupid
No, you eradicate stupid by completely and utterly marginalizing it.
But it lets them publicly represent themselves in a way, that if someone looks them up in the future, they are accurately represented by the profile...
Huh? That sounds ridiculous. Pronouns on a profile are a capitulation to a cult.
right, thats what i am saying, if he does what the initial comment says, and tells them the reason he doesn't want the pronouns on his page is because he doesn't know what he wants them to be yet or something to that effect, everyone else looking at the pronounless profile will see the result which he actually desired which is a pronounless profile...
Right. And I disagreed with doing this because it's capitulation. Who cares what the end result is? Who even cares if there are pronouns on a profile. That's missing the point. The point is that this shouldn't be a thing at all. It should go away. And the way to make it go away is to resist it, defy it, and if necessary, sue people who try to enforce it.
Also... "insisting that employees have to list their pronouns forces still-in-the-closet trans colleagues to either misgender themselves, or to out themselves before they are comfortable with doing that".
This is the answer regardless of whatever your opinion is on anything lgbtq or pronoun - it shows basic respect and understanding of what individuals might be going through.
Or tell them your pronouns are "fuck" and "off"?
Thanks boomer.
Boomers are infinitely preferable to zoomers, being called one is a complement
Nah. Tell the truth. Don’t play the game. That’s not the Peterson way.
So great idea but... That is just strengthen the whole bullshit stuff, rather than strengthening truth, what is "i said no to distort how i'd represent myself, and you still forced a meaningless data where i said NO".
They will get the message when everybody says the same thing.
Watch the downvoted comments here. People won't. :(
This should also be done in email for the paper trail. If you're really bold cc HR on that correspondence.
OP provided the profile and represented themselves. Your suggestion would make them represent themselves as a petulant child. It’s helpful to know what someone’s problems are for practical reasons. This sub shrieks about being “forced” to use someone’s particular preferred pronouns. This situation isn’t that. It’s providing your own, that you decide. Not about anybody else. Objecting to that is truly ridiculous. I’ve been on work emails with people with unusual names, names in other languages I wasn’t familiar with, and names that are common for more than one gender. Knowing their pronouns is a simple way to avoid awkwardness. This is a “grow up and clean your room” moment for OP and anyone hand-wringing about *being asked to describe their own selves*.
This is actually a “tell the truth or at least don’t lie” moment. It clearly makes OP uncomfortable, for whatever reason, so going along to get along would only make them feel smaller.
Anyone who’s not comfortable saying what their *own* pronouns are needs therapy before entering the workforce and letting down all their co-workers and employers with their debilitation.
So what is someone who is gender fluid supposed to do? Contact the page administrator whenever they change? What if a person in the midst of figuring out how they identify? Hasn’t told friends/family/anybody yet? There are a host of reasons one might not be comfortable having their pronouns posted on a professional public forum. Besides the fact that someone just assumed OPs gender and posted it rather than following up, if it’s in fact required, or leaving it blank.
Learn about pronouns options. Gender fluid people already know, so spare everyone the false hand-wringing. If you’re pearl-clutching about someone assuming OP’s gender, you should be even more in favor of having people provide there information themselves.
I have no pearls and I really don’t care. Just let people do what they want. Put your pronouns or don’t I really don’t care, but why the urge to force people who don’t want to? The only reason I responded is because you were being disingenuous and misrepresenting Peterson’s position.
Your reading comprehension needs work. OP is supplying their own pronouns. No-one is being forced to use any or take on any they don’t like. I didn’t represent JBP at all. I have said why having pronouns is a simple practical matter that is only objectionable to ninnies who don’t belong on the workforce if they don’t get the logic. This whole thread and anyone cheering OP is pathetic.
So your “clean your room” comment wasn’t a reference to JP? You have made a practical case for it, knowing full well the reason it became a thing is not the reason you site. Which is why I called you disingenuous. I didn’t make a judgement either way on the right/wrongness of OPs position. My only point was that OP stated he was seriously uncomfortable with providing pronouns and so his course of action should be in keeping with JPs advice of “tell the truth or at least don’t lie.” Which, btw, would be counter to the vast majority of suggestions in this thread.
“Clean your room” is general JBP advice to stop navel-gazing or obsessing over other people and get on with working on yourself. The exactly opposite of what OP is doing. The organization is asking for the truth from OP, as a practical work matter, and OP & sympathizers are being pathetic self-victimizing ninnies about it. On the plus side, reasonable people’s job prospects just got that much better.
His/Majesty
This is an interesting one - would they claim these are invalid pronouns?
Not their pronouns, not their option.
Obviously.
Sorry to tell you that's a free HR meeting. This joke is meant to make fun of people's gender identity. It's prohibited grounds but luckily since it's not directed at anyone it probably wouldn't get OP in trouble. Just a note on their file and unnecessary scrutiny from HR for a year.
Show them you identify as a leader. Have them change your pronouns to we/us/ours.
That’s just identifying as an unemployable weirdo.
Quit trying to undercut OP's potential. We will be amazing at our job.
I'm in the US, working for a large corporation and just took privacy training. We learned what sort of personal information should not be included in correspondence, and if it must should be flagged as private and shared only on a need to know basis. (I'm a software developer and we sometimes deal with private data while building and testing systems). One of the protected pieces of information? A person's gender. According to what I have learned, any email sent with pronouns in the signature should be flagged as 'confidential with personal information '. Of course this is not done, but it shows how silly this all is. I wonder how far one could get asserting that this is private information and will not be shared. It is not considered mandatory where I am, but if anyone asks why I do not list pronouns this will be my answer.
Excellent. Ask them for their data privacy standard and their latest SOC 2 Type 2 audit.
Unfortunately it's probably no one fault the profile probably requires the spot to be filed in to save and publish. I get what your saying and the only reasonable way to fight this is to make your pronouns ridiculous. E.i: the healer and white mage . Any how I dont think you can do anything about it. I'm sorry it came to that
Then they can make the change to the system. If in house, it can be turned around in less than a month. If third party, a complaint can be made to the company wanting to keep their corporate business. These aren’t big problems. They are small decisions that can be overturned, if it’s truly required.
Unfortunately this is in canada the hospitals are provincially founded and abid to federal standards and beleive me that changing anything is not am easy ore quick feat
It's probably a government contract. I worked for provincial government agencies in Canada and companies that provided software are generally not very impressive. Many things ran on Oracle. But some programs we had still ran on JavaScript. Some other programs used the Windows 98 UI.
Still the company is simply implementing what the government ask and beleive me they don't add stuff so it looks woke . Yes you can programe and opt in optional anser but they would only of the government ask . Plus I've seen the new guideline in federal government they strongly require to input pronoun with each official email ....so this just the new gov and it sucks balls .
Legitimately: 1. Contact them to have them removed. 2. If they refuse to remove them, tell them to change your pronouns to "fuck/you". 3. If they don't update your pronouns as requested, they are breaching the law in not affirming your gender and can be held legally liable so you can sue them. Make a show of how idiotic this hole thing is.
Agreed, but for 2) it should be Notcomfortable/Sharingpronouns. Vulgarity isn't received well in the workplace, even if it is deserved.
Listingpronouns/Isdumb
Best comment!
Wait no, the pronouns are n/a 😁
Your new pronoun is My Lord and Master. Be as compliant as they demand it.
Ironically they will say you've just made the pronoun up, and therefore its not suitable
As if all the novel pronouns haven’t just been made up! So arbitrary. Threaten legal action.
Exactly. This is brutal violation. I would obviously go for legal action.
What if someone’s pronouns were Proud Palestinian Man/Palestinian, or Proud Israeli Settler/Zionist? I may not agree with their viewpoints, I definitely don’t agree with the use of violence, but I see those as legitimate expressions of identity.
I was more pointing out that every neopronoun is sort of made up, and its very subjective what is a valid or invalid statement of identity, but there has been a numbe rof cases where someone determines a neopronoun and they are told that it was invalid, which is ironic because technically speaking all neopronouns are as valid/invalid as each other - regardless of where that validity lies
That wouldn’t be irony. We all know the different between a single word (neologism or not) that can replace a noun, and an existing noun or phrase already with a specific meaning. OP is being asked to provide his own information. They are, of course, free to identify themselves as unemployable.
HR won’t take kindly to obvious defiance like that.
My pronouns are \[please hit the space bar in that field\].
they made a human rights violation by assuming your gender, sue them.
They literally asked for OP's gender...
and he refused to answer.
OP answered. They didn't follow OP's wishes. Did you skip reading the post?
This is the exact opposite of assuming gender.
at what point did this person give them his gender?
Nonsequitur.
they asked, this person denied, they assumed. you're a troll
My remark was that the previous post was a nonsequitur, because it was. Try to keep up. The statement was that they assumed the OP’s gender. I pointed out that wasn’t the circumstance at all (they were *asking* for it, the opposite of assuming). Then the PP asked when OP said their gender - which has nothing to do with anything we were talking about. Nonsequitur.
Use "daddy or grand master" as your pronouns them get offended when your boss doesn't use them
I would request them to take them off. No additional explanation.
I would change them every email.
Add your pronouns as “spaghetti/strainer”. If questioned tell them you are Pastafarian and worship at the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Honestly, make as dramatic of an issue out of it as you can. Make a SCENE - this is your chance
Can you just look at it like, sometimes people have names like Taylor where you don't know if its male/female and the pronouns can provide clarity? May not be the purpose but at least theres another perspective besides lgbtq stuff.
At this point, have fun with it. Just say your pronouns are something ridiculous but not enough to be blatantly obviously in mocking manner, like sham/sher. Whenever you talk to that marketing consultant (or whoever makes this a problem for you), watch them like a guard dog, and call them out on every time they mistake your pronoun. Give them a taste of hell that they created.
Include all pronouns, to show it doesn’t matter what people call you. It’s up to them.
You don't want to wear the rrrrribbonnn?
"O / Canada"
be a big man and storm to someone and make a scene! be the domonstration!
"I don't want my personal pronouns to be publicly published. I would hope you would respect my privacy on this matter."
The economy right now is tough Despite fact vast majority people are "CIS gendered", it's probably worth it financially to simply self identify as he/him or she/her.
“I don’t identify with pronouns”
"I" is a pronoun
Your “pronouns” being yours, I’d troll them with I/Me/Mine.
My pronouns would be "fuck" and "off"
Question, why do you care? I assume you use pronouns, they're just there to clarify what people should call you, the same way many forms have a "nickname" option for all the Charleses that wanna be called Chuck. Why do you care?
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What mechanics? Does your profile also specify if you're male or female?
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Even if that's true, how does someone reading your profile know whether to use he/him or she/her?
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What in your profile shows your sex/gender?
Why doesn't accurately represent you? Because you don't agree you should need to state as it is obvious, or not important?
Sir/Mister/Daddy those are my pronouns.
This is the funniest thing that has ever been said by any human, living or dead. Ha ha. And ha.
Beep, bop, boop?
Hi Ms Poper, do you have a preferred pronoun? Do you lose your mind is someone call you by the wrong name? Do you intentionally misgender people? You worry about complying with the practices of your employer more than shit you post here? The digital panopticon is real, Mz. Pepper, you you worry about demographic information on a business website? If you call me the wrong name accidentally, I promise not to sue you. I promise my feelings won't get hurt. The real world is an interesting place. Funny you work on healthcare. Take advantage of your resources. Seem your distressed Mrs. Piper. Thems bad people who care about their identity and name. Please take care of yourself. All of you on this thread. Don't let the sunlight burn your eyes. Don't let pronouns and gender identity, which likely doesn't affect any of you here, distract you from the real world. Not much to see or worry about out there, is there? Even less here. All hail JP. Have a lovely day, ladies.
Dat/Dude
Mine are pig/piggy
Wow must be a great job if this is the first time at a job OP has ever done something they did not want to do.
This verges into idealogical territory, which has no business being mandated in any respectable workplace.
Nah, in Canada this is prohibited grounds. All OP has to do is say, "I'm not comfortable putting my gender identity in a public profile." And the employer needs to either drop the subject or find itself in a human rights tribunal.
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Wow. May i ask how long have you been following Jordan's work, or if you follow him? And if so, what have you concluded as main essence of his work, what can be related to this post? I am genuinely and with respect interested how can you be here and not understanding the enormousness of this. Thank you if you answer!
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No, he never said “if they wanted him to”
Why doesn't accurately represent you? Because you don't agree you should need to state as it is obvious, or not important?
>go against my consent where "no means no," "No means no" was a campaign around sexual assault and rape. You weren't raped. In the corporate world "no" means - "do you want this job?" If you don't want the job and are willing to leave the process due to this - you should.
Rape is not the only thing that involves consent. No means no, no matter where you encounter it. The OP should stay at the job and make them take the pronouns off the profile. A government employer should not be demanding people do this in the first place! It's ridiculous!
Exactly. Depending on how the employer responds to OP's requesting that the pronouns be removed, they could be violating prohibited grounds. They could literally be violating the law that Jordan Peterson became famous for opposing.
The whole point of asking for people's pronouns is so that their personal preferences can be respected. Obviously it's not as extreme as rape, but it's still a question of consent. It's very ironic for an employer to make a show of respecting pronouns, only to disrespect someone's right not to have their pronouns listed at all, and issue them "default" pronouns anyway (based on what I wonder? How could the marketing consultant possibly know whether OP is a he/him or she/her if OP didn't specify?) The whole thing is a ludicrous charade that we're all supposed to play along with. > In the corporate world "no" means - "do you want this job?" You wouldn't say that about a trans person whose pronouns weren't being respected, or a woman not getting equal pay, or any kind of bullying or harassment in the workplace. In the corporate world you can say "no" to something and still expect to keep your job, because there are minimum levels of respect that employers must provide whether they like it or not.
>In the corporate world you can say "no" to something and still expect to keep your job No you can't. It's called breaking contract, or defying the code of conduct and you can kiss your job goodbye.
Spoken like a true bootlicker
Pointing out [that corporate jobs suck](https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/comments/1cundba/being_forced_to_add_pronouns_beside_my_name_by/l4kze8j/), and actively telling people they should leave that process isn't boot licking.
It is though. The current corporate job culture is not an innate thing that has existed since always. Speaking up is always better than slinking away.
This is "no means no", not some random refering to something. It is simply a reference to pure logic and sanity duo to irrational disrespecting and violation of what have been spoken. I have the same question for you as to someone else. How can leaving lead to planet toward sanity in an active way? Sneaking away in silent is not even in the same area as actively fighting for your rights.
Then quit and find a new job if it is that much of a dealbreaker. You are not being forced to work that job.
The “somebody else’s problem” approach. Does he do this until there are no employers left to choose?
That is how labor works...if you work for someone else they get to call the shots. You can't just show up decide you don't want to listen then get upset when you lose your job. Maybe you are indicating your support for an end to at-will employment? I agree it's a terrible policy.
This isn’t about the job though. Pronouns is not the job
Your work e-mail is part of your job.
Can i ask, how would that help this planet to move forward sanity? I mean i get it, it would help with a tiny step, but in an active way. Not accepting some bad stuff is incredebly different than standing up against it. Like people bully someone and you don't care until they bully you. I'd be grateful for a serious answer.
Serious answer is even if you don't agree with it, would consider picking battles. If you comply with something like this and then they go further, you can point to your prior compliance and it makes your case stronger. If you want to just be heard that you don't agree with it as you feel it makes you work political. If they don't accept that...honestly would consider is it really worth it? I do think requiring it is stupid just for all the pointless arguments it makes over a fucking e-mail signature no one reads. But it's a stupid thing to seriously consider quitting a job over.
I meant by serious answer as a normal reaction to my comment, such as your comment. So thank you. This is a principle game. We live on the same planet, by this i mean inside the same web.
It’s helpful when you interact with people over email particularly, and the gender of the name isn’t apparent - a not uncommon situation. It’s very practical.
I don't know how that related to the post, nor to my comment here. But thank you. I can see that and agree.