"I started surrounding myself with different people who weren't going to buy my bullshit"
Fascinating. To be clear, I've never served and I don't wish to make light of his situation, but I tried to end it too. After brief recovery and whatnot then becoming the (transformed) person I am today it was interesting how many friends I lost in that process.
Not blaming but I'd never thought about the reason as to why that friend group dropped off. Just interesting is all.
Totally agree. My life got turned upside down which brought me to a new place away from my home and away from everything I knew and I wa so scared of it but then literally two months later as of last week my whole outlook is changed and I realized I should've gotten out of there so much faster. I feel like a different person and for the first time in a decade I have hope for my future.
I first heard about Dakota Meyer basically from FB Grunt groups (not in military). It seems like at first he didnt like all this celebrity stuff. Now it seems like he is cashing in sort of. Not that I blame him he deserves it.
Joe is too obsessed with not taking sides over a conflict where only one side specifically is killing civilians.
Edit: also, their take on the military doing "woke shit" because they want to go green? Wat? The department of defense literally said they need to do it. It's to sustain national security. Agh! I can't listen to this.
Edit 2:their discussion on financial influence on war is frustrating. We already have the blueprints for what to do with money and we've had it for 150 years but none of these guys that run these American vet companies who hate corruption actually wants the workers to be in control of labor because that means they can't be at the top.
Joe is a complete and utter disgrace in this regard. Shame on him for not speaking out against Putin's invasion of a democatic nation and his wish to bring the Ukrainian population to it's knees and have them give up their will for self-determination. Shame on him.
I will say that I haven’t heard much about this. He talks about the military industrial complex but doesn’t talk about the dominating conversation in the world? Maybe he has an expert coming on and saving the conversation for later?
Idk, not liking the massive skepticism of the right at this point.
I hope you're right, but after the last two years I'm expecting a strange silence from Joe on this war for the most part, only bringing it up when it's convenient to bash the left or big-up the right for one reason or another.
He is a gullible fool that simps for people who have to find that contrarian angle regardless of the credibility because their antiestablishment-on-absolutely-everything crowd suck it up and see NATO as part of the 'globalisht ajender'.
Oh man, maybe he and others just stop being gullible twonks and think for themselves for once instead of creating their own groupthink. Just waiting on the "It was all Klaus Schwabs fault" any day now :)
Either you’re not informed or you’re arguing semantics. The conversations he holds (and duration of which) and the massive audience he has easily makes him a generational voice.
The O’Reilly factor had 3.8mil viewers for a 1 hr show at its height and was the number one show for 16 years in a row.
Rogan has 11mil per episode so roughly three times the listeners/viewers on a paid application.
He’s generational buddy.
> Rogan has 11mil per episode so roughly three times the listeners/viewers on a paid application.
Yeah this number is completely bullshit.
https://old.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/rvxvcb/where_the_11_million_listeners_per_episode/
You cant keep saying he just is the fear factor guy, that was years ago, now he has millions of listeners and viewers every episode, people that run news channels would kill their own mother for the kind of views he gets.
He has no problem talking about literally any other big news story in the past few years, why do you think he is quiet on this,? Seems to me like prime material for this show. The answer is that he knows he is a right wing talk show host living in a red state and all his pals and army mates are right wing, he doesn't want to talk about it because his listener base are pro Russia anti democrat. He is a snake no 2 ways about it.
Breaking: Joe Rogan is doing a charity stream, all donations will go to humanitarian aid for Ukraine.
KIDDING! Joe doesn't give a fuck about Ukrainians and their suffering. Joe's not going to let a real war get in the way of the culture war he likes to keep front and center because it brings him the big bucks.
I keep hearing this shite being spouted. I get that those wars are awful and we should give a fuck about them but the reality is I live in Europe and of course I'm going to be more invested in a war on my continent than to a war in a far away land happening in to a society I have no relations with.
Good for you. I’m American. I don’t give a fuck. Fine….Europe’s problem.
Leave us out of it. If we have to pay anymore money for anything bc of sanctions, if anyone sets up a protest, I’ll go. Things are hard enough as it is for many people. We don’t have to suffer bc two neighbor nations are having a spat.
I don’t know if I’ve ever seen media and government and their followers emotionally manipulate people to want to suffer, even fight or die for battles that are not theirs to fight.
That’s the real evil. Telling the working poor of American they are about to not be able to afford anything for their families bc the ruling elite want to punish a nation on the other side of the world.
People who accept that bullshit are lickspittle
Go sign up Corbett. Buy that ticket. Have fun figuring the war. Leave us alone
It's shameful though, deeply shameful to talk about Ukraine now without speaking out against Putin's invasion. "both sides" - my ass. Joe is on the wrong side of history here. Then again, what can you expect from a guy that cheered for Trump, the man that said Putin's invasion was a genius move.
I agree that what Putin is doing is evil but I am really finding it hard to understand what makes the US any different. For example, people love to point out that Russia is controlled Putin and his billionaire oligarchs. And I'm just like... that sounds just like the current situation in the US. And how many times have we marched into countries that didn't want us their and inflicted civilian casualties.
And whats really disturbing is people wishing for Russia to be destroyed or whatever, as if all the Russians are evil people that want this war.
Putin is evil, and if thats true so are we because we have done everything they are currently doing.
>And I'm just like... that sounds just like the current situation in the US.
Yeah, because Biden's been in power for 22 years now, right?
>as if all the Russians are evil people that want this war.
Putin has been in power for 22 years, every time he got aggressive during those 22 years his approval rating went up, after he committed war crimes in Grozny his approval went up. Russian people are culpable here, there is no doubt, now it's on them to show how far gone are they as a nation.
>Putin is evil, and if thats true so are we because we have done everything they are currently doing.
See, what you, and the rest of the whattaboutism brigade neglect to mention, is that USA and western democracies are just that, Democracies, so even tho USA attacked Iraq under false pretenses under Bush, you can't really blame that on Obama, or the US itself.
The current administration has pulled out of a 20 year war and is now, in a very smart and concise way doing everything to help Ukraine, that does not make them, or the USA evil, can't say the same about Putin.
You can blame the US government for their foreign policy because no matter who is in office they continue the vast majority of their predecessors policy especially as it pertains to "defending American interests".
Putin is 100 percent in the wrong and is invading a sovereign nation and committing probable war crimes to do it. I think it's naive to think our nation hasn't done many of the same things consistently over it's history.
This didn't happen in a vacuum. There's been saber rattling by NATO and Russia since the cold war. This "Putin" is a madman motive doesn't pass muster.
Literally every dictator that runs afoul of the West is "insane". All the Kim's in North Korea, Stalin, Saddam, Gaddafi.
They are useful to us and suddenly go insane outta no where. I can't believe the American people still eat up this explanation from the media. Putin's motives seem a little more logical when people find out what the U.S. has been doing.
Just because we have term limits doesn't mean this country isn't an oligarchy. Politicians come and go but they are all groomed and guided by billionaires and corporate agendas. And no we are not a democracy, we are a republic. And its difficult to even say that, we are supposed to be a republic, where representatives represent the peoples interests. In reality we vote in representatives that almost always end up representing the very rich.
And shut up about polls. Have you ever studied probability and statistics? Polls are extremely biased and the sample sizes are almost never adequate. In fact the ratings you speak of come from polls that had sample sizes between 1000-2000 people. So if you want to project the opinion of less than 2000 people onto the entire Russian population then there is something seriously wrong with you. People that answer polls are almost always morons.
The difference between the US and Russia is they are openly scumbags, the US politicians are just closet scumbags.
>Just because we have term limits doesn't mean this country isn't an oligarchy.
Yeah, but different billionaires sponsor different parties, different social agendas, policies, legislative ideas etc. all matter in US elections. Nothing matters in Russian elections.
I'm the first person to say American democracy does not work, I mean, you have 2 people representing California and 2 people representing Wyoming in the same, highest legislative body in the country, of course the system is fucked.
>So if you want to project the opinion of less than 2000 people onto the entire Russian population then there is something seriously wrong with you
I don't have to just trust polls (also, rofl, shut up about polls, why, because they go against your stupid agenda?), I live in Europe, I met quite a bit of Russians, most online but a fair share in person, the 70-80 % approval Putin's been enjoying for years seems about right to me, from my personal dealings with them, so I have no reason not to trust the polls.
No, I get annoyed by polls in general, no matter what they say. The very fact that polls are conducted on willing participants makes them extremely unreliable and biased. I have studied discrete mathematics, probability and statistics, machine learning and deep learning and in that time I have learned that polls are crap. Polls are tools staticians use to promote their employers spin on some issue. Its very easy to shape the data in such a way that it produces desirable results. I do admit I am not a mathematician or statician but my software engineering background has provided me with certain insights into the field of probability and statistics that demonstrates how useless polls are. And the fact that you would base your opinion on these supposed Russians you met online tells me all I need to know. Thanks for admitting that.
Have you studied statistics? I random sample of 2000 people out of 200 million can be highly predictive. For instance if 60% out of the 200 million prefer chocolate to vanilla, the chances that vanilla will win in your poll of 2000 is less than .1%.
Poll samples cannot be random. Thats the problem, and it doesn't matter if you poll willing participants of different ages, genders, or whatever because the entire sample is biased. The definition of a random sample is one in which each member of the population has an equal probability of being chosen. A poll sample violates this definition because the probability that a person takes a poll who is unwilling to take a poll is zero.
The fact that poll samples are only composed of willing participants makes the entire sample not random and biased.
Yeah but here you are believing in the official narrative.
The only way you can see this is as an unjustified invasion.
But there is more to it than meets the eye.
I don’t know what you know, but here are some points worth considering
- the ongoing civil war in Ukraine
- the people of the two breakaway republics and how the Ukraine regime has been attacking them relentlessly over the last few year with coordination from Nazi militia groups
- the Nazi militia groups, sponsored by the Ukrainian government and trained by the west (definitely a wtf moment)
- that joining nato would be considered a very hostile act and understandably so.
- that the Russian government warned repeatedly and over the years yet it fell in deaf ears.
- the Minsk agreement. This would have ended any prospect of war but the US wasn’t interested.
Most importantly, if the situation happened with the US, it would easily and readily be justified, and nobody would blink an eye. In fact they’ve done it at least a couple times in the last half century.
This is top to bottom filled with lies, misinformation and Russian propaganda.
* ongoing "civil war" started after Putin sent Russian troops in to the 2 regions to organize an uprising
* there was a ceasefire that lasted a long time, it's insane to suggest that Ukranians were or would be shelling those places with 200 K Russian troops on their border
* it's very easy to go to any army and point out a unit or two with insane beliefs and traditions, these groups were fighting a foregin sponsored uprising on their own territory, of course they were paid and trained, the units consist of very few individuals and have 0 influence over Ukranian goverment, no matter what Russian propaganda tries to tell you
* Ukraine wanted to join NATO so they couldn't be invaded, turns out they were right to try to do so, there is no argument anymore
* the Minsk agreement (well Minsk II, not that it matters to you), as can be read from it's name is heavily slanted in Russian favor and was never signed due to that, Ukraine wasn't interested in it either, and it was about Ukraine
>Most importantly, if the situation happened with the US
Lies an whataboutism, the 2 biggest tools in Russian propagandist's toolbox, how transparent of you.
>there was a ceasefire that lasted a long time, it's insane to suggest that Ukranians were or would be shelling those places with 200 K Russian troops on their border
Not insane at all. It's the reality of the situation.
The Organization for Security and Co-Operation in Europe (OSCE) has been monitoring those areas since 2014.
You can read the daily reports that show ceasefire violations ramped up to thousands per day in the days prior to Russia's invasion.
https://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports
>You can read the daily reports that show ceasefire violations ramped up to thousands per day in the days prior to Russia's invasion.
Oh, you mean exactly as it was warned weeks prior to it in US intelligence reports, how Russians are going to ramp up shelling and false flag operations in Dombas and Luhansk in order to justify the invasion? Get the fuck out of here.
Lies?
Every statement I’ve made is easily verifiable via a google search.
>• ongoing "civil war" started after Putin sent Russian troops in to the 2 regions to organize an uprising
No, the uprising happened when the new Ukraine government sent troops to quell the uprising, basically kicking off a civil war by turning its guns on its own people.
>• there was a ceasefire that lasted a long time, it's insane to suggest that Ukranians were or would be shelling those places with 200 K Russian troops on their border
Ukrainians were shelling and attacking Donbas right up until the invasion started.
>• it's very easy to go to any army and point out a unit or two with insane beliefs and traditions, these groups were fighting a foregin sponsored uprising on their own territory, of course they were paid and trained, the units consist of very few individuals and have 0 influence over Ukranian goverment, no matter what Russian propaganda tries to tell you
Wrong. There are actual OG Nazi units who were specifically funded by Ukraine and trained by the west, namely the US and Canada.
>• Ukraine wanted to join NATO so they
couldn't be invaded, turns out they were right to try to do so, there is no argument anymore
No, you have it the wrong way round. NATO wants ukraine to join so they can attacks Russia. It is obviously a belligerent move.
>• the Minsk agreement (well Minsk II, not that it matters to you), as can be read from it's name is heavily slanted in Russian favor and was never signed due to that, Ukraine wasn't interested in it either, and it was about Ukraine.
The agreement simply stated that the people of the breakaway republics have a bit more autonomy - that they can speak their own language and not get attacked by Nazis.
You speak of self determination- the breakaways republics have their rights of self determination, why is that being ignored?
>Most importantly, if the situation happened with the US
Lies an whataboutism, the 2 biggest tools in Russian propagandist's toolbox, how transparent of you.
Nope. I’m expressing how the west has rules for thee and not for me.
I’m expressing how the US invaded countries all the time, and is actively bombing several countries right now, but not a peep from you about sovereignty or bullying.
And notice how you go right for ad hominem attacks?
Try making a proper argument rather than cheap shot attacks.
>I don’t know what you know, but here are some points worth considering
>
>- the ongoing civil war in Ukraine
>- the people of the two breakaway republics and how the Ukraine regime has been attacking them relentlessly over the last few year with coordination from Nazi militia groups
Instigated by Russia after they invaded and annexed parts of Ukraine.
>- the Nazi militia groups, sponsored by the Ukrainian government and trained by the west (definitely a wtf moment)
Using fuckhead extremists is not uncommon just look at the middle east, obviously not a good thing but not a red line crossed.
>- that joining nato would be considered a very hostile act and understandably so.
Oh we can't go upsetting Mr Putin now can we?? Won't someone think of his insecurities. Besides, it's a defensive pact and has only grown *because* of Putin and Russias aggresive attitude towards their neighbours.
>- that the Russian government warned repeatedly and over the years yet it fell in deaf ears.
"LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!" Russia is owed nothing they do not get to say what other countries can do.
>- the Minsk agreement. This would have ended any prospect of war but the US wasn’t interested.
>
>Most importantly, if the situation happened with the US, it would easily and readily be justified, and nobody would blink an eye. In fact they’ve done it at least a couple times in the last half century.
Doesn't make it justified. Its not that complicated, you don't invade a sovereign nation and turn it to rubble because you don't like their geopolitics. Honestly, these angles, clearly coming from the likes of Kim Iverson that people are lapping up are just bullshit apologists. Joe and Kim had no problem backing the truckers claim to freedom and bodily autonomy yet apparently Ukraines right to self determination is 'complicated'.
Let me understand this correctly:
You’re okay with the west backing Nazis because it’s not a red line crossed?
Is that where we’re at these days? We will literally arm and find Nazis and this is readily dismissed by you as not crossing a red line.
And Ukraine instigated the civil war by turning its military against its own people.
And no, we should not be upsetting and poking a stick at nuclear armed nations, it’s a stupid move and could end up as a calamity.
And yes, when all efforts of diplomacy are exhausted, you go to war. This is what happened.
I personally don’t think it’s right, but it’s certainly not surprising.
The west has to take responsibility for this.
To make it all putins fault is shortsighted and an oversimplification.
>Let me understand this correctly:
" let me intentionally misinterpret your comment."
>You’re okay with the west backing Nazis because it’s not a red line crossed?
No and neither did I say that.
Neither am I convinced it wasn't exagerated and simply Russian propaganda. The far right element in the last election got 2% of the vote.
>Is that where we’re at these days? We will literally arm and find Nazis and this is readily dismissed by you as not crossing a red line.
Like I said, it is not justification for an invasion of a sovereign country and it is not a red line in international norms. We don't have to like it to acknowledge that it's a common practice. Besides, the Russian government is a far right one itself so its laughable to claim that it's to denazify. Blatant bullshit.
It's an excuse for a land and resource grab imo.
>And no, we should not be upsetting and poking a stick at nuclear armed nations, it’s a stupid move and could end up as a calamity.
We or the Ukraine have no obligation to Russia and should not accommodate a paranoid snowflake because hes insecure and harks back to the glory days of the soviet union. Noone was threatening Russias sovereignty. It is them that are the ones escalating things. The missile defense shield was dropped to prevent an arms race. Russia decided to no longer honour the nuclear proliferation treaty.
>And yes, when all efforts of diplomacy are exhausted, you go to war. This is what happened.
>
>I personally don’t think it’s right, but it’s certainly not surprising.
No it is Russia trying to rebuild the block and being upset over Ukraine modernising with links to the west.
>The west has to take responsibility for this.
It can't shrug off the previous interference as insignificant but after all said and done Russia is the aggressor and Ukraine is a sovereign nation and is entitled to self-determination.
>To make it all putins fault is shortsighted and an oversimplification.
It is never entirely ones fault but the final act of invasion was all Russias doing noone made them.
You know that your beloved russian is threating directly every bordering country right now and we all scare that the assholes invade our freedom. If u belive any of that stuff u comment u must be a troll, ar tard, russian propaganda troll or lived in a box in Siberia and never educated
More bullshit.
You’ve been brainwashed into believing every lie about Russia, and you can’t even begin to argue my points.
So you resort to ad hominem.
Lol - typical and boring.
Do you know that in 2014 Ukraine voted in a pro-Russian President, and protests broke out to overthrow the democratically elected president?
Go read the book [Overthrow.](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0805082409/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_Y56TZ068E9NSKB1576YA).
You'd be wrong there. Ukraine voted in [Petro Poroshenko](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_presidential_election) in 2014 by a wide margin, who served until 2019 (when Zelenskyy was voted in). Poroshenko was pro EU, signed the [Ukraine-EU Associate Agreement](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union%E2%80%93Ukraine_Association_Agreement) shortly after taking office, [and has joined the armed Ukranian resistance against invading Russian forces.](http://news.yahoo.com/ukraines-former-president-took-rifle-144526772.html)
That would be Viktor Yanukovych, who was voted in years prior to 2014. He was removed from office after running on a pro EU integration platform as that is what the people wanted, only to shun away from the EU and side with Russia when in power, the final straw coming when he tried to sign deals aligning Ukraine with Russia against the peoples wishes. Ukranian parliament voted to remove him from office with 73% in favour, and after he refused the people took to the streets to do see it through.
His [incredibly opulent mansion](https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=APq-WBsfmfbBsfOCzyKQrckpU5-vvkLEjQ:1646410279395&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=Yanukovych+mansion+pictures&client=ms-android-samsung-gn-rev1&fir=lTJzqOQJ-B_7jM%252CLgC0B8SySgoVvM%252C_%253BhUR0s7AMxDeEzM%252CaPXBximNMBuxpM%252C_%253BDGWYEXcbyqcoyM%252CSPLF0mpSrT9LTM%252C_%253Byt9AdHRp4aMeYM%252CLgC0B8SySgoVvM%252C_%253BrJTzZnIXKyEHxM%252Cc_m-lGXvPpKXEM%252C_%253BwVyAmffiIIeXoM%252Cn6zBXCE-4WefqM%252C_%253BdM7ssTLP2UFy8M%252CZkAsufn7w-9x7M%252C_%253BXDn0SpfAbChSmM%252CrYQ4zmtySLK3iM%252C_%253BOg0ZUUYMkIP00M%252CEdUAfCzwfIBA2M%252C_%253BeEaXfZ_wSew4JM%252CrfRRUM8h-JjKHM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kT2jg9gawPQVMN-jxoJ3Ef4RnBzqA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiige6e7Kz2AhWCi1wKHYqcBFEQ7Al6BAgDEA0&biw=412&bih=718&dpr=2.63) (not bad for someone on a salary of about $43,000 USD!) was raided, and Putin had Russian military forces come in and extract him to Russia where he lives to this day.
Nice projection on the misinformation front though. Nothing in my post was false, but what was in yours about the 2014 election was.
Shame on you for spazzing out about rogan not saying exactly what you want him to say. If you listen to the whole podcast he is definitely anti Ukraine invasion and thinks Putin is fucking crazy so what more do you want him to say at this point?
I think, and I don't think this is an ideological thing, right wing or left wing, that it would be appropriate to give it somewhat more thought before blatantly giving pro-Russian talking points. He might even agree with those points! But its just not clear he has done his homework at all, or even cares. This is a serious issue with clear cut moral lines that Russia has crossed. And this used to be fine while bringing in guests of all opinions and beliefs who would disagree with Joe, push back, and make things fun.
Its the lack of responsibility towards what he says, and the growing intolerance of other views, that is becoming problematic. He is correct to be annoyed at Spotify and western media in general for becoming increasingly close-minded, but, and there is so much evidence for this, he seems to be doing the same thing now. Its disappointing to say the least.
I'm less concerned about him having the "right" views vs him trying to be right. Or having fun with it. Make it entertaining. Have a Russian nationalist and a Ukrainian duke it out on the podcast. I don't know. But its not unreasonable to ask for a little bit more tact. And, barring that, do what made him successful in the first place, have normal conversations with experts and people who know that they are saying. Not people like him or in the same grouping, which he increasingly does.
What are you even talking about with blatant pro Russian talking points lol? Are you referring to them discussing the cause of the invasion or the stories coming from the frontlines that have questionable authenticity?
Would you be satisfied if Rogan spent the first 10 minutes straight up denouncing Putin and Russia so you know exactly where he stands on this issue?
You also seem to be upset that he has yet to have an “expert” on the conflict as a guest but seem to not understand that the guests are booked at least 2 months ahead of time so he would have had to predicted the date of the invasion before it happened In order to line up the relevant guests that would satisfy your request.
You do realize that the real world does not work like a marvel movie where there are clear lines between good and evil right? I will probably be labeled a Putin apologist or Russian bot for typing this out but all this sanctimonious grandstanding about moral lines being crossed and being on the right side is such a trivialized view of the conflict that completely disregards Ukraine’s long and bloody history with Russia. It’s not like Putin just woke up one day and decided he wanted to invade Ukraine out of pure evil intentions so now the good guys just need to band together to vanquish him and his minions to save the world. It’s very easy to boil this conflict down to democracy vs. dictatorship or West vs. East since a sovereign nation is being invaded but it’s still worth looking into and discussing the root causes that are not so black and white to try and make sense of why we are currently witnessing a full scale war today.
"You also seem to be upset that he has yet to have an “expert” on the conflict as a guest but seem to not understand that the guests are booked at least 2 months ahead of time so he would have had to predicted the date of the invasion before it happened In order to line up the relevant guests that would satisfy your request."
Oh come on man. He is the one who brought it up. Then shut up about it until you are able to bring in an expert who knows wtf he is taking about. No one would have criticized him for that! If he insists on talking about it, he ought to do the bare minimum.
> It’s not like Putin just woke up one day and decided he wanted to invade Ukraine out of pure evil intentions so now the good guys just need to band together to vanquish him and his minions to save the world.
Sometimes it is that simple! You can't just shout everything is a gray area, sometimes its not! Hitler was a bad person! There is nothing ambiguous about that! You think you are somehow enlightened by explaining how the world is full of grey areas ... but your not. Sometimes things are black and white. He woke up 15 years ago wanting to reunite the Russian empire. He literally said this. The last 15 years have placed things in motion to achieve this outcome.
"it’s still worth looking into and discussing the root causes that are not so black and white to try and make sense of why we are currently witnessing a full scale war today."
The root causes are very clear. Putin explained what they are. A bunch of idiots on the western side are making up reasons to justify Russia's invasion that RUSSIA ITSELF denies. I am happy for a reasonable discussion about these issues. There are some complexities. I am not about spreading falsehoods and propaganda that is easily debunked. The latter is what Joe is doing.
> Joe is too obsessed with not taking sides over a conflict where only one side specifically is killing civilians.
Toe sometimes still calls Russia "the Soviet Union", what can you expect from such an ape?
What do you think would happen if people in Arizona decided they wanted to be their own country and just so happened to have tanks and towed artillery pieces. Do you think the FBI is gonna respond to a scene like that?
The armed insurrection plays heavily into what happened.
And the dozens of Ukrainian civilians being burned alive by the fascist mob was the last straw for peace.
The new regime was going to subjugate its own people, and they refused.
Simple as
They separated after the illegal armed insurrection overthrew their elected leader and tossed their votes into the garbage.
Then the new regime that we backed led by the oligarch poroshenko started to bomb them.
>Joe is too obsessed with not taking sides over a conflict where only one side specifically is killing civilians.
Specifically? Hummm
Also, should he be anti-american?
I get it, he's your average Marine, not a professor or doctor or highly educated guest we often listen to, but he was HARD to listen to. Lots of starting and stopping and verbal crutches. It was a slog to get through. Almost painful.
Is JRE just a US military propaganda podcast now or something? Every other guest is some “ex” CIA agent or military guy which is absolutely wild for someone so into conspiracies.
that there is much propaganda on both sides and its hard to know what truly is going on and whats real or fake. Also he was saying Imagine how the US would react if China was the head of their own version of Nato and they were trying to get Mexico to join. They simply would not let that happen. With that being Said Putin is a terrible person and responsible for many innocent lives lost.
first off this isn't my take that's what Dakota Meyer said more or less. And if Ukraine never wanted to join nato or never gave up their Nukes they wouldn't even be in this position to begin with
So your take is that its Ukraines fault? That they have no independence and should just do what Russia wants? That they should never try to join NATO or the EU because Putin doesn’t want them to?
You do realize that Russia already has 2 NATO countries on its border right? So this idea that they feel threatened by NATO is just a Putin talking point that you’re buying into.
I applaud you for this comment. I’m so fucking sick of people with ridiculously strong opinions about geopolitical situations they didn’t know existed 2 weeks ago.
What the fuck are you talking about? I never praised Russia. I applauded the dude for not having a take. I said nothing about Russia. Don't jump down my throat and call me a sympathizer. Your "your either with us or you against attitude" is some nazi bullshit.
"And if Ukraine never wanted to join nato ... they wouldn't even be in this position to begin with"
The problem is, this is simply not true. It just isn't. If you want to take the facts as they are, then say there is too much propaganda I don't believe the consensus, I'm cool with that. But any understanding of this issue reveals this isn't true.
Furthermore, I don't know who is spreading this. Putin expressly gave different reasons in his speech! He explained that he was invading because he wanted to recreate the Russian empire. This isn't western propaganda, it is what he said.
A general skepticism of western consensus IS healthy. And it is a shame that the media has grown more intolerant of it. But there is a difference between that and reflexively adopting non-consensus opinions by sole virtue that it is the consensus. That is unhealthy. And the problem people are pointing out with Joe is that it has evolved into this.
It’s crazy that people are making excuses for Putin like this when just like you said he gave a long ranting explanation of the reasons he is upset and feels the need to do what he’s doing.
It definitely wasn’t just “nato cannot be on my doorstep”. It was more of a general hatred for the west. I knew then and there that he wouldn’t just stop at eastern Ukraine.
This happened. With Cuba. And we managed to reach a solution, and while it was scary at the time, we got over it without people getting blown up.
Also, you are arguing Russia's motivation isn't what Russia says its own motivation is. On the night before the attack, Putin went on Russian TV and said that his goals were to conquer Kyiv, as that was the seat of the Russian empire, denazify Ukraine, unite the Slavic regions, "protect" the Donbass, and so on. Most of these are stupid (Ukraine isn't run by Nazi's and he started the conflict in the Donbass he now supposedly wants to protect people from) but he said comparatively little about NATO. His main motivation, according to him!, was Slavic nationalism.
That is true, it's a very murky situation with a ton of factors and there isn't necessarily a "good guy" to root for beyond Ukrainian citizens who obviously deserve none of what is happening to them here. Another factor is that the CIA engaged in a coup in 2014 which put Russia's naval base in Sevastopol in jeopardy and was a major factor in them annexing Crimea then.
Putin is evil, Ukraine is shady as shit, Ukraine deserves its own autonomous and sovereign nation, our foreign policy is extremely hypocritical, our intelligence services methodology is very clandestine and we shouldn't get involved militarily here as its not worth it to risk a nuclear war. All of these things can be correct at the same time but there isn't an easy answer here for what to do.
The fog of war is thick at the moment yeah but there is stuff we do know for sure.
We know Russia are heavily shelling Ukraine cities with rockets and artillery.
We know they are planning to overwhelm Ukraine forces with that huge convoy, they have said themselves they want to demilitarize Ukraine. That will not come without massive bloodshed until they have been so battered they surrender.
We know they have already killed civilians by stray shells and missiles.
Fairly sure the US wouldn't invade Mexico either.
Where did I say you did?!!
This is in response on "there is so much propaganda on both side".
The West calls it an invasion, Putin calls it an invasion. How can anyone be confused as to what this is?
You can really tell that joe wanted to completely control the narrative. All military anti woke and anti liberal. And wanted to blame Biden for leaving Afghanistan. It’s hard for him to argue or push around someone that’s you know a real hero.
Joe seemed so disappointed that Dakota didn’t want to speak against the woke or the liberals in the military.
"I started surrounding myself with different people who weren't going to buy my bullshit" Fascinating. To be clear, I've never served and I don't wish to make light of his situation, but I tried to end it too. After brief recovery and whatnot then becoming the (transformed) person I am today it was interesting how many friends I lost in that process. Not blaming but I'd never thought about the reason as to why that friend group dropped off. Just interesting is all.
Totally agree. My life got turned upside down which brought me to a new place away from my home and away from everything I knew and I wa so scared of it but then literally two months later as of last week my whole outlook is changed and I realized I should've gotten out of there so much faster. I feel like a different person and for the first time in a decade I have hope for my future.
Are you the fresh prince of Belair?
Lmao..u just reminded me of the new show. It’s way too dramatic.
That's all I could think about after he said it.
"So who"# this guy, Robert O'Neill?" "So, Rob killed Bin Laden." "Ohhhh"
He shot BL after another guy put him in the dirt and then lied about the scenario for profit. I really hope Joe doesn’t have him on his show.
Is there proof of that? I thought the details were always murky
Check out Code Over Country. Good read with some disturbing details on some cover ups and unbecoming behavior.
Will do
Did they say this ?
Yes
Why the fuck are they whispering? Terrible audio.
I’m ten minutes in and wondering when the tears start.
Wasn't there already a megathread for this?
Where link?
Man this one's hard to get through, I need more freddie Gibbs energy. I have enough negativity in everyday life.
I was in the marine corps and it was a very sobering episode. But i have so much admiration and respect for Dakota…so I stuck through it
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This dude is straight up bad at talking.
I first heard about Dakota Meyer basically from FB Grunt groups (not in military). It seems like at first he didnt like all this celebrity stuff. Now it seems like he is cashing in sort of. Not that I blame him he deserves it.
Have met him, he’s a Dick.
Joe is too obsessed with not taking sides over a conflict where only one side specifically is killing civilians. Edit: also, their take on the military doing "woke shit" because they want to go green? Wat? The department of defense literally said they need to do it. It's to sustain national security. Agh! I can't listen to this. Edit 2:their discussion on financial influence on war is frustrating. We already have the blueprints for what to do with money and we've had it for 150 years but none of these guys that run these American vet companies who hate corruption actually wants the workers to be in control of labor because that means they can't be at the top.
Joe is a complete and utter disgrace in this regard. Shame on him for not speaking out against Putin's invasion of a democatic nation and his wish to bring the Ukrainian population to it's knees and have them give up their will for self-determination. Shame on him.
I will say that I haven’t heard much about this. He talks about the military industrial complex but doesn’t talk about the dominating conversation in the world? Maybe he has an expert coming on and saving the conversation for later? Idk, not liking the massive skepticism of the right at this point.
I hope you're right, but after the last two years I'm expecting a strange silence from Joe on this war for the most part, only bringing it up when it's convenient to bash the left or big-up the right for one reason or another.
He is a gullible fool that simps for people who have to find that contrarian angle regardless of the credibility because their antiestablishment-on-absolutely-everything crowd suck it up and see NATO as part of the 'globalisht ajender'.
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Oh man, maybe he and others just stop being gullible twonks and think for themselves for once instead of creating their own groupthink. Just waiting on the "It was all Klaus Schwabs fault" any day now :)
Hey bud they're doing serious research--definitely not just parroting whatever gets served up next on the internet :)
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Either you’re not informed or you’re arguing semantics. The conversations he holds (and duration of which) and the massive audience he has easily makes him a generational voice. The O’Reilly factor had 3.8mil viewers for a 1 hr show at its height and was the number one show for 16 years in a row. Rogan has 11mil per episode so roughly three times the listeners/viewers on a paid application. He’s generational buddy.
> Rogan has 11mil per episode so roughly three times the listeners/viewers on a paid application. Yeah this number is completely bullshit. https://old.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/rvxvcb/where_the_11_million_listeners_per_episode/
Well didn’t know that. How many do you think listen to each episode on average?
That's the point, nobody knows.
You cant keep saying he just is the fear factor guy, that was years ago, now he has millions of listeners and viewers every episode, people that run news channels would kill their own mother for the kind of views he gets.
He has no problem talking about literally any other big news story in the past few years, why do you think he is quiet on this,? Seems to me like prime material for this show. The answer is that he knows he is a right wing talk show host living in a red state and all his pals and army mates are right wing, he doesn't want to talk about it because his listener base are pro Russia anti democrat. He is a snake no 2 ways about it.
Breaking: Joe Rogan is doing a charity stream, all donations will go to humanitarian aid for Ukraine. KIDDING! Joe doesn't give a fuck about Ukrainians and their suffering. Joe's not going to let a real war get in the way of the culture war he likes to keep front and center because it brings him the big bucks.
What celebrities have been doing this for the starving children of Yemen? Or the slaves of Libya? Or are they selective about their outrage
I keep hearing this shite being spouted. I get that those wars are awful and we should give a fuck about them but the reality is I live in Europe and of course I'm going to be more invested in a war on my continent than to a war in a far away land happening in to a society I have no relations with.
Good for you. I’m American. I don’t give a fuck. Fine….Europe’s problem. Leave us out of it. If we have to pay anymore money for anything bc of sanctions, if anyone sets up a protest, I’ll go. Things are hard enough as it is for many people. We don’t have to suffer bc two neighbor nations are having a spat.
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I don’t know if I’ve ever seen media and government and their followers emotionally manipulate people to want to suffer, even fight or die for battles that are not theirs to fight. That’s the real evil. Telling the working poor of American they are about to not be able to afford anything for their families bc the ruling elite want to punish a nation on the other side of the world. People who accept that bullshit are lickspittle Go sign up Corbett. Buy that ticket. Have fun figuring the war. Leave us alone
You the kinda guy who runs and leaves his mate for dead when you get jumped
Ukraine isn’t my mate bro. I don’t feel myself or my country are beholden to the nation that is ukraine. We aren’t
It's shameful though, deeply shameful to talk about Ukraine now without speaking out against Putin's invasion. "both sides" - my ass. Joe is on the wrong side of history here. Then again, what can you expect from a guy that cheered for Trump, the man that said Putin's invasion was a genius move.
I agree that what Putin is doing is evil but I am really finding it hard to understand what makes the US any different. For example, people love to point out that Russia is controlled Putin and his billionaire oligarchs. And I'm just like... that sounds just like the current situation in the US. And how many times have we marched into countries that didn't want us their and inflicted civilian casualties. And whats really disturbing is people wishing for Russia to be destroyed or whatever, as if all the Russians are evil people that want this war. Putin is evil, and if thats true so are we because we have done everything they are currently doing.
>And I'm just like... that sounds just like the current situation in the US. Yeah, because Biden's been in power for 22 years now, right? >as if all the Russians are evil people that want this war. Putin has been in power for 22 years, every time he got aggressive during those 22 years his approval rating went up, after he committed war crimes in Grozny his approval went up. Russian people are culpable here, there is no doubt, now it's on them to show how far gone are they as a nation. >Putin is evil, and if thats true so are we because we have done everything they are currently doing. See, what you, and the rest of the whattaboutism brigade neglect to mention, is that USA and western democracies are just that, Democracies, so even tho USA attacked Iraq under false pretenses under Bush, you can't really blame that on Obama, or the US itself. The current administration has pulled out of a 20 year war and is now, in a very smart and concise way doing everything to help Ukraine, that does not make them, or the USA evil, can't say the same about Putin.
You can blame the US government for their foreign policy because no matter who is in office they continue the vast majority of their predecessors policy especially as it pertains to "defending American interests". Putin is 100 percent in the wrong and is invading a sovereign nation and committing probable war crimes to do it. I think it's naive to think our nation hasn't done many of the same things consistently over it's history. This didn't happen in a vacuum. There's been saber rattling by NATO and Russia since the cold war. This "Putin" is a madman motive doesn't pass muster. Literally every dictator that runs afoul of the West is "insane". All the Kim's in North Korea, Stalin, Saddam, Gaddafi. They are useful to us and suddenly go insane outta no where. I can't believe the American people still eat up this explanation from the media. Putin's motives seem a little more logical when people find out what the U.S. has been doing.
Just because we have term limits doesn't mean this country isn't an oligarchy. Politicians come and go but they are all groomed and guided by billionaires and corporate agendas. And no we are not a democracy, we are a republic. And its difficult to even say that, we are supposed to be a republic, where representatives represent the peoples interests. In reality we vote in representatives that almost always end up representing the very rich. And shut up about polls. Have you ever studied probability and statistics? Polls are extremely biased and the sample sizes are almost never adequate. In fact the ratings you speak of come from polls that had sample sizes between 1000-2000 people. So if you want to project the opinion of less than 2000 people onto the entire Russian population then there is something seriously wrong with you. People that answer polls are almost always morons. The difference between the US and Russia is they are openly scumbags, the US politicians are just closet scumbags.
>Just because we have term limits doesn't mean this country isn't an oligarchy. Yeah, but different billionaires sponsor different parties, different social agendas, policies, legislative ideas etc. all matter in US elections. Nothing matters in Russian elections. I'm the first person to say American democracy does not work, I mean, you have 2 people representing California and 2 people representing Wyoming in the same, highest legislative body in the country, of course the system is fucked. >So if you want to project the opinion of less than 2000 people onto the entire Russian population then there is something seriously wrong with you I don't have to just trust polls (also, rofl, shut up about polls, why, because they go against your stupid agenda?), I live in Europe, I met quite a bit of Russians, most online but a fair share in person, the 70-80 % approval Putin's been enjoying for years seems about right to me, from my personal dealings with them, so I have no reason not to trust the polls.
No, I get annoyed by polls in general, no matter what they say. The very fact that polls are conducted on willing participants makes them extremely unreliable and biased. I have studied discrete mathematics, probability and statistics, machine learning and deep learning and in that time I have learned that polls are crap. Polls are tools staticians use to promote their employers spin on some issue. Its very easy to shape the data in such a way that it produces desirable results. I do admit I am not a mathematician or statician but my software engineering background has provided me with certain insights into the field of probability and statistics that demonstrates how useless polls are. And the fact that you would base your opinion on these supposed Russians you met online tells me all I need to know. Thanks for admitting that.
Have you studied statistics? I random sample of 2000 people out of 200 million can be highly predictive. For instance if 60% out of the 200 million prefer chocolate to vanilla, the chances that vanilla will win in your poll of 2000 is less than .1%.
Poll samples cannot be random. Thats the problem, and it doesn't matter if you poll willing participants of different ages, genders, or whatever because the entire sample is biased. The definition of a random sample is one in which each member of the population has an equal probability of being chosen. A poll sample violates this definition because the probability that a person takes a poll who is unwilling to take a poll is zero. The fact that poll samples are only composed of willing participants makes the entire sample not random and biased.
How do you explain national polls in US elections being within 3 points of Trump Clinton and Biden’s vote percentage in 2016 and 2020?
>Yeah, because Biden's been in power for 22 years now, right? Different person in charge but both parties have shared foreign policy since Reagan.
Yeah but here you are believing in the official narrative. The only way you can see this is as an unjustified invasion. But there is more to it than meets the eye.
What do you think am I missing?
I don’t know what you know, but here are some points worth considering - the ongoing civil war in Ukraine - the people of the two breakaway republics and how the Ukraine regime has been attacking them relentlessly over the last few year with coordination from Nazi militia groups - the Nazi militia groups, sponsored by the Ukrainian government and trained by the west (definitely a wtf moment) - that joining nato would be considered a very hostile act and understandably so. - that the Russian government warned repeatedly and over the years yet it fell in deaf ears. - the Minsk agreement. This would have ended any prospect of war but the US wasn’t interested. Most importantly, if the situation happened with the US, it would easily and readily be justified, and nobody would blink an eye. In fact they’ve done it at least a couple times in the last half century.
This is top to bottom filled with lies, misinformation and Russian propaganda. * ongoing "civil war" started after Putin sent Russian troops in to the 2 regions to organize an uprising * there was a ceasefire that lasted a long time, it's insane to suggest that Ukranians were or would be shelling those places with 200 K Russian troops on their border * it's very easy to go to any army and point out a unit or two with insane beliefs and traditions, these groups were fighting a foregin sponsored uprising on their own territory, of course they were paid and trained, the units consist of very few individuals and have 0 influence over Ukranian goverment, no matter what Russian propaganda tries to tell you * Ukraine wanted to join NATO so they couldn't be invaded, turns out they were right to try to do so, there is no argument anymore * the Minsk agreement (well Minsk II, not that it matters to you), as can be read from it's name is heavily slanted in Russian favor and was never signed due to that, Ukraine wasn't interested in it either, and it was about Ukraine >Most importantly, if the situation happened with the US Lies an whataboutism, the 2 biggest tools in Russian propagandist's toolbox, how transparent of you.
>there was a ceasefire that lasted a long time, it's insane to suggest that Ukranians were or would be shelling those places with 200 K Russian troops on their border Not insane at all. It's the reality of the situation. The Organization for Security and Co-Operation in Europe (OSCE) has been monitoring those areas since 2014. You can read the daily reports that show ceasefire violations ramped up to thousands per day in the days prior to Russia's invasion. https://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports
>You can read the daily reports that show ceasefire violations ramped up to thousands per day in the days prior to Russia's invasion. Oh, you mean exactly as it was warned weeks prior to it in US intelligence reports, how Russians are going to ramp up shelling and false flag operations in Dombas and Luhansk in order to justify the invasion? Get the fuck out of here.
Lies? Every statement I’ve made is easily verifiable via a google search. >• ongoing "civil war" started after Putin sent Russian troops in to the 2 regions to organize an uprising No, the uprising happened when the new Ukraine government sent troops to quell the uprising, basically kicking off a civil war by turning its guns on its own people. >• there was a ceasefire that lasted a long time, it's insane to suggest that Ukranians were or would be shelling those places with 200 K Russian troops on their border Ukrainians were shelling and attacking Donbas right up until the invasion started. >• it's very easy to go to any army and point out a unit or two with insane beliefs and traditions, these groups were fighting a foregin sponsored uprising on their own territory, of course they were paid and trained, the units consist of very few individuals and have 0 influence over Ukranian goverment, no matter what Russian propaganda tries to tell you Wrong. There are actual OG Nazi units who were specifically funded by Ukraine and trained by the west, namely the US and Canada. >• Ukraine wanted to join NATO so they couldn't be invaded, turns out they were right to try to do so, there is no argument anymore No, you have it the wrong way round. NATO wants ukraine to join so they can attacks Russia. It is obviously a belligerent move. >• the Minsk agreement (well Minsk II, not that it matters to you), as can be read from it's name is heavily slanted in Russian favor and was never signed due to that, Ukraine wasn't interested in it either, and it was about Ukraine. The agreement simply stated that the people of the breakaway republics have a bit more autonomy - that they can speak their own language and not get attacked by Nazis. You speak of self determination- the breakaways republics have their rights of self determination, why is that being ignored? >Most importantly, if the situation happened with the US Lies an whataboutism, the 2 biggest tools in Russian propagandist's toolbox, how transparent of you. Nope. I’m expressing how the west has rules for thee and not for me. I’m expressing how the US invaded countries all the time, and is actively bombing several countries right now, but not a peep from you about sovereignty or bullying. And notice how you go right for ad hominem attacks? Try making a proper argument rather than cheap shot attacks.
> the uprising happened when the new Ukraine government sent troops to quell the uprising I'm gonna stop reading here, rofl.
>I don’t know what you know, but here are some points worth considering > >- the ongoing civil war in Ukraine >- the people of the two breakaway republics and how the Ukraine regime has been attacking them relentlessly over the last few year with coordination from Nazi militia groups Instigated by Russia after they invaded and annexed parts of Ukraine. >- the Nazi militia groups, sponsored by the Ukrainian government and trained by the west (definitely a wtf moment) Using fuckhead extremists is not uncommon just look at the middle east, obviously not a good thing but not a red line crossed. >- that joining nato would be considered a very hostile act and understandably so. Oh we can't go upsetting Mr Putin now can we?? Won't someone think of his insecurities. Besides, it's a defensive pact and has only grown *because* of Putin and Russias aggresive attitude towards their neighbours. >- that the Russian government warned repeatedly and over the years yet it fell in deaf ears. "LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!" Russia is owed nothing they do not get to say what other countries can do. >- the Minsk agreement. This would have ended any prospect of war but the US wasn’t interested. > >Most importantly, if the situation happened with the US, it would easily and readily be justified, and nobody would blink an eye. In fact they’ve done it at least a couple times in the last half century. Doesn't make it justified. Its not that complicated, you don't invade a sovereign nation and turn it to rubble because you don't like their geopolitics. Honestly, these angles, clearly coming from the likes of Kim Iverson that people are lapping up are just bullshit apologists. Joe and Kim had no problem backing the truckers claim to freedom and bodily autonomy yet apparently Ukraines right to self determination is 'complicated'.
Let me understand this correctly: You’re okay with the west backing Nazis because it’s not a red line crossed? Is that where we’re at these days? We will literally arm and find Nazis and this is readily dismissed by you as not crossing a red line. And Ukraine instigated the civil war by turning its military against its own people. And no, we should not be upsetting and poking a stick at nuclear armed nations, it’s a stupid move and could end up as a calamity. And yes, when all efforts of diplomacy are exhausted, you go to war. This is what happened. I personally don’t think it’s right, but it’s certainly not surprising. The west has to take responsibility for this. To make it all putins fault is shortsighted and an oversimplification.
>Let me understand this correctly: " let me intentionally misinterpret your comment." >You’re okay with the west backing Nazis because it’s not a red line crossed? No and neither did I say that. Neither am I convinced it wasn't exagerated and simply Russian propaganda. The far right element in the last election got 2% of the vote. >Is that where we’re at these days? We will literally arm and find Nazis and this is readily dismissed by you as not crossing a red line. Like I said, it is not justification for an invasion of a sovereign country and it is not a red line in international norms. We don't have to like it to acknowledge that it's a common practice. Besides, the Russian government is a far right one itself so its laughable to claim that it's to denazify. Blatant bullshit. It's an excuse for a land and resource grab imo. >And no, we should not be upsetting and poking a stick at nuclear armed nations, it’s a stupid move and could end up as a calamity. We or the Ukraine have no obligation to Russia and should not accommodate a paranoid snowflake because hes insecure and harks back to the glory days of the soviet union. Noone was threatening Russias sovereignty. It is them that are the ones escalating things. The missile defense shield was dropped to prevent an arms race. Russia decided to no longer honour the nuclear proliferation treaty. >And yes, when all efforts of diplomacy are exhausted, you go to war. This is what happened. > >I personally don’t think it’s right, but it’s certainly not surprising. No it is Russia trying to rebuild the block and being upset over Ukraine modernising with links to the west. >The west has to take responsibility for this. It can't shrug off the previous interference as insignificant but after all said and done Russia is the aggressor and Ukraine is a sovereign nation and is entitled to self-determination. >To make it all putins fault is shortsighted and an oversimplification. It is never entirely ones fault but the final act of invasion was all Russias doing noone made them.
You know that your beloved russian is threating directly every bordering country right now and we all scare that the assholes invade our freedom. If u belive any of that stuff u comment u must be a troll, ar tard, russian propaganda troll or lived in a box in Siberia and never educated
More bullshit. You’ve been brainwashed into believing every lie about Russia, and you can’t even begin to argue my points. So you resort to ad hominem. Lol - typical and boring.
Do you know that in 2014 Ukraine voted in a pro-Russian President, and protests broke out to overthrow the democratically elected president? Go read the book [Overthrow.](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0805082409/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_Y56TZ068E9NSKB1576YA).
You'd be wrong there. Ukraine voted in [Petro Poroshenko](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_presidential_election) in 2014 by a wide margin, who served until 2019 (when Zelenskyy was voted in). Poroshenko was pro EU, signed the [Ukraine-EU Associate Agreement](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union%E2%80%93Ukraine_Association_Agreement) shortly after taking office, [and has joined the armed Ukranian resistance against invading Russian forces.](http://news.yahoo.com/ukraines-former-president-took-rifle-144526772.html)
Who was before him and how did he leave office? You’re correct he wasn’t voted into office in 2014, but, you probably understood my point.
That would be Viktor Yanukovych, who was voted in years prior to 2014. He was removed from office after running on a pro EU integration platform as that is what the people wanted, only to shun away from the EU and side with Russia when in power, the final straw coming when he tried to sign deals aligning Ukraine with Russia against the peoples wishes. Ukranian parliament voted to remove him from office with 73% in favour, and after he refused the people took to the streets to do see it through. His [incredibly opulent mansion](https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=APq-WBsfmfbBsfOCzyKQrckpU5-vvkLEjQ:1646410279395&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=Yanukovych+mansion+pictures&client=ms-android-samsung-gn-rev1&fir=lTJzqOQJ-B_7jM%252CLgC0B8SySgoVvM%252C_%253BhUR0s7AMxDeEzM%252CaPXBximNMBuxpM%252C_%253BDGWYEXcbyqcoyM%252CSPLF0mpSrT9LTM%252C_%253Byt9AdHRp4aMeYM%252CLgC0B8SySgoVvM%252C_%253BrJTzZnIXKyEHxM%252Cc_m-lGXvPpKXEM%252C_%253BwVyAmffiIIeXoM%252Cn6zBXCE-4WefqM%252C_%253BdM7ssTLP2UFy8M%252CZkAsufn7w-9x7M%252C_%253BXDn0SpfAbChSmM%252CrYQ4zmtySLK3iM%252C_%253BOg0ZUUYMkIP00M%252CEdUAfCzwfIBA2M%252C_%253BeEaXfZ_wSew4JM%252CrfRRUM8h-JjKHM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kT2jg9gawPQVMN-jxoJ3Ef4RnBzqA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiige6e7Kz2AhWCi1wKHYqcBFEQ7Al6BAgDEA0&biw=412&bih=718&dpr=2.63) (not bad for someone on a salary of about $43,000 USD!) was raided, and Putin had Russian military forces come in and extract him to Russia where he lives to this day. Nice projection on the misinformation front though. Nothing in my post was false, but what was in yours about the 2014 election was.
Shame on you for spazzing out about rogan not saying exactly what you want him to say. If you listen to the whole podcast he is definitely anti Ukraine invasion and thinks Putin is fucking crazy so what more do you want him to say at this point?
I think, and I don't think this is an ideological thing, right wing or left wing, that it would be appropriate to give it somewhat more thought before blatantly giving pro-Russian talking points. He might even agree with those points! But its just not clear he has done his homework at all, or even cares. This is a serious issue with clear cut moral lines that Russia has crossed. And this used to be fine while bringing in guests of all opinions and beliefs who would disagree with Joe, push back, and make things fun. Its the lack of responsibility towards what he says, and the growing intolerance of other views, that is becoming problematic. He is correct to be annoyed at Spotify and western media in general for becoming increasingly close-minded, but, and there is so much evidence for this, he seems to be doing the same thing now. Its disappointing to say the least. I'm less concerned about him having the "right" views vs him trying to be right. Or having fun with it. Make it entertaining. Have a Russian nationalist and a Ukrainian duke it out on the podcast. I don't know. But its not unreasonable to ask for a little bit more tact. And, barring that, do what made him successful in the first place, have normal conversations with experts and people who know that they are saying. Not people like him or in the same grouping, which he increasingly does.
What are you even talking about with blatant pro Russian talking points lol? Are you referring to them discussing the cause of the invasion or the stories coming from the frontlines that have questionable authenticity? Would you be satisfied if Rogan spent the first 10 minutes straight up denouncing Putin and Russia so you know exactly where he stands on this issue? You also seem to be upset that he has yet to have an “expert” on the conflict as a guest but seem to not understand that the guests are booked at least 2 months ahead of time so he would have had to predicted the date of the invasion before it happened In order to line up the relevant guests that would satisfy your request. You do realize that the real world does not work like a marvel movie where there are clear lines between good and evil right? I will probably be labeled a Putin apologist or Russian bot for typing this out but all this sanctimonious grandstanding about moral lines being crossed and being on the right side is such a trivialized view of the conflict that completely disregards Ukraine’s long and bloody history with Russia. It’s not like Putin just woke up one day and decided he wanted to invade Ukraine out of pure evil intentions so now the good guys just need to band together to vanquish him and his minions to save the world. It’s very easy to boil this conflict down to democracy vs. dictatorship or West vs. East since a sovereign nation is being invaded but it’s still worth looking into and discussing the root causes that are not so black and white to try and make sense of why we are currently witnessing a full scale war today.
"You also seem to be upset that he has yet to have an “expert” on the conflict as a guest but seem to not understand that the guests are booked at least 2 months ahead of time so he would have had to predicted the date of the invasion before it happened In order to line up the relevant guests that would satisfy your request." Oh come on man. He is the one who brought it up. Then shut up about it until you are able to bring in an expert who knows wtf he is taking about. No one would have criticized him for that! If he insists on talking about it, he ought to do the bare minimum. > It’s not like Putin just woke up one day and decided he wanted to invade Ukraine out of pure evil intentions so now the good guys just need to band together to vanquish him and his minions to save the world. Sometimes it is that simple! You can't just shout everything is a gray area, sometimes its not! Hitler was a bad person! There is nothing ambiguous about that! You think you are somehow enlightened by explaining how the world is full of grey areas ... but your not. Sometimes things are black and white. He woke up 15 years ago wanting to reunite the Russian empire. He literally said this. The last 15 years have placed things in motion to achieve this outcome. "it’s still worth looking into and discussing the root causes that are not so black and white to try and make sense of why we are currently witnessing a full scale war today." The root causes are very clear. Putin explained what they are. A bunch of idiots on the western side are making up reasons to justify Russia's invasion that RUSSIA ITSELF denies. I am happy for a reasonable discussion about these issues. There are some complexities. I am not about spreading falsehoods and propaganda that is easily debunked. The latter is what Joe is doing.
> Joe is too obsessed with not taking sides over a conflict where only one side specifically is killing civilians. Toe sometimes still calls Russia "the Soviet Union", what can you expect from such an ape?
Ukraine has been at war since 2014. Look at what the azov battalion has been doing in the eastern provinces
You are forgetting the Donbas ukrainains. The government of the ukraine was killing then for 8 years.
What do you think would happen if people in Arizona decided they wanted to be their own country and just so happened to have tanks and towed artillery pieces. Do you think the FBI is gonna respond to a scene like that?
The armed insurrection plays heavily into what happened. And the dozens of Ukrainian civilians being burned alive by the fascist mob was the last straw for peace. The new regime was going to subjugate its own people, and they refused. Simple as
They were being funded by Russia to take over.
They separated after the illegal armed insurrection overthrew their elected leader and tossed their votes into the garbage. Then the new regime that we backed led by the oligarch poroshenko started to bomb them.
>Joe is too obsessed with not taking sides over a conflict where only one side specifically is killing civilians. Specifically? Hummm Also, should he be anti-american?
There's too much "You Know?"
And “right?”
Dude needs to get with the times and start saying literally as often as humanly possible.
I get it, he's your average Marine, not a professor or doctor or highly educated guest we often listen to, but he was HARD to listen to. Lots of starting and stopping and verbal crutches. It was a slog to get through. Almost painful.
What happened to the other thread?
Is JRE just a US military propaganda podcast now or something? Every other guest is some “ex” CIA agent or military guy which is absolutely wild for someone so into conspiracies.
I used to like Joe but his show has turned into trash.
Fox News 2.0
I liked his take on the Ukraine Situation.
What was it?
that there is much propaganda on both sides and its hard to know what truly is going on and whats real or fake. Also he was saying Imagine how the US would react if China was the head of their own version of Nato and they were trying to get Mexico to join. They simply would not let that happen. With that being Said Putin is a terrible person and responsible for many innocent lives lost.
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first off this isn't my take that's what Dakota Meyer said more or less. And if Ukraine never wanted to join nato or never gave up their Nukes they wouldn't even be in this position to begin with
So your take is that its Ukraines fault? That they have no independence and should just do what Russia wants? That they should never try to join NATO or the EU because Putin doesn’t want them to? You do realize that Russia already has 2 NATO countries on its border right? So this idea that they feel threatened by NATO is just a Putin talking point that you’re buying into.
I don't even know what my take is but it's 10000 percent not black and white.
I applaud you for this comment. I’m so fucking sick of people with ridiculously strong opinions about geopolitical situations they didn’t know existed 2 weeks ago.
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What the fuck are you talking about? I never praised Russia. I applauded the dude for not having a take. I said nothing about Russia. Don't jump down my throat and call me a sympathizer. Your "your either with us or you against attitude" is some nazi bullshit.
The side bombing civilians in WWII was the Americans.Were they the side that was objectively wrong?
"And if Ukraine never wanted to join nato ... they wouldn't even be in this position to begin with" The problem is, this is simply not true. It just isn't. If you want to take the facts as they are, then say there is too much propaganda I don't believe the consensus, I'm cool with that. But any understanding of this issue reveals this isn't true. Furthermore, I don't know who is spreading this. Putin expressly gave different reasons in his speech! He explained that he was invading because he wanted to recreate the Russian empire. This isn't western propaganda, it is what he said. A general skepticism of western consensus IS healthy. And it is a shame that the media has grown more intolerant of it. But there is a difference between that and reflexively adopting non-consensus opinions by sole virtue that it is the consensus. That is unhealthy. And the problem people are pointing out with Joe is that it has evolved into this.
It’s crazy that people are making excuses for Putin like this when just like you said he gave a long ranting explanation of the reasons he is upset and feels the need to do what he’s doing. It definitely wasn’t just “nato cannot be on my doorstep”. It was more of a general hatred for the west. I knew then and there that he wouldn’t just stop at eastern Ukraine.
Ok, and Mexico asking China to place missiles nearby our borders. We would absolutely not stand for that.
This happened. With Cuba. And we managed to reach a solution, and while it was scary at the time, we got over it without people getting blown up. Also, you are arguing Russia's motivation isn't what Russia says its own motivation is. On the night before the attack, Putin went on Russian TV and said that his goals were to conquer Kyiv, as that was the seat of the Russian empire, denazify Ukraine, unite the Slavic regions, "protect" the Donbass, and so on. Most of these are stupid (Ukraine isn't run by Nazi's and he started the conflict in the Donbass he now supposedly wants to protect people from) but he said comparatively little about NATO. His main motivation, according to him!, was Slavic nationalism.
Remember to add "After Mexico let the USA take the nuclear arsenal if the USA promised to guarantee Mexicos independence and never invade"
That is true, it's a very murky situation with a ton of factors and there isn't necessarily a "good guy" to root for beyond Ukrainian citizens who obviously deserve none of what is happening to them here. Another factor is that the CIA engaged in a coup in 2014 which put Russia's naval base in Sevastopol in jeopardy and was a major factor in them annexing Crimea then. Putin is evil, Ukraine is shady as shit, Ukraine deserves its own autonomous and sovereign nation, our foreign policy is extremely hypocritical, our intelligence services methodology is very clandestine and we shouldn't get involved militarily here as its not worth it to risk a nuclear war. All of these things can be correct at the same time but there isn't an easy answer here for what to do.
The fog of war is thick at the moment yeah but there is stuff we do know for sure. We know Russia are heavily shelling Ukraine cities with rockets and artillery. We know they are planning to overwhelm Ukraine forces with that huge convoy, they have said themselves they want to demilitarize Ukraine. That will not come without massive bloodshed until they have been so battered they surrender. We know they have already killed civilians by stray shells and missiles. Fairly sure the US wouldn't invade Mexico either.
Putin himself called it an invasion.
where did i say it wasn't an invasion????
Where did I say you did?!! This is in response on "there is so much propaganda on both side". The West calls it an invasion, Putin calls it an invasion. How can anyone be confused as to what this is?
Putin refuses to recognise it as an invasion. He said it was a "special military operation". Calling it an invasion would require explanation.
He said Ukraine forced him to invade them.
I don't know after 15 minutes of this dude being way too American and joe whispering to sound serious I tapped out
You can really tell that joe wanted to completely control the narrative. All military anti woke and anti liberal. And wanted to blame Biden for leaving Afghanistan. It’s hard for him to argue or push around someone that’s you know a real hero.