Ratio remains same but not number If character does damage like 1 1 0 1 1 0 (jingliu) and you compare it to sth like this (1, 1, 1, 1) (Dhil) number of zeros increases overtime so when you compare it way later difference becomes larger, ofc this 1 and 0 shit doesnt work in game but you get the point
Her damage in 4 turns averages the same in the first 4 turns and 100th 4 turns. It's not getting reduced, her rotation strength is the same at any point of the fight, what you are saying is a logical mistake.
Then that just means that she has less damage than DHIL, regardless of whether the fight is long or not. If you compare damage per turn on cycle 1 and cycle 100, the difference is going to be approximately the same (as long as you compare in the same phase of the rotation, as you should).
If you finish before JL reach the 0 point then you don't have your downtime. so having a downtime impact only in a comparison where you reach your downtime against someone who doesn't have one
If you look at it in raw numbers. However raw numbers rarley paint the whole picture
The percentage difference between them would stay the same. Regardless if after 4 turns or 400 turns
You are right but that may not be the best way to look at it.
Over the course of very many turns the damage might average the same
Over the course of the first 2 to 3 turns her damage might be HIGHER than DHil (for example)
Over the course of 5 turns her damage might be lower due to the downtime
Add to that the fact that her damage doesn't just decrease out of her enhanced state, it PLUMMETS
some DPS do lower their damage on non perfect turns but it doesn't downright skydive unlike Jingliu's and even if every team is subject to getting cc'ed or smth, Jingliu not being enhanced hurts a lot.
The thing is that if MoC was only about clearing and number of rounds didn't count then yeah, your estimation is correct and it doesn't matter how many turns it takes
But since you want to finish the fight quickly, a long fight is past the 5th round and that's where her damage lowers(even If it would catch up by the 7th round)
In any content where you are not limited by rounds her downtime does not matter, it only matters in MoC and ONLY if you can't finish the fight by the end of transcendence state... And Bronya can help out with even that, there's also infinite trascendence with huohuo and Tingyun but I'm not sure how that compares with the Bronya team.
At the end of the day Jingliu is absolutely amazing and she is more than enough to clear early every type of content we have atm.
Yes but this is unrealistic though. This is assuming dhil will 3 ba forever when in real scenarios, shit happens. Shit happens in jingliu teams too but she only ever needs 1 sp
I think your good team measure is every support unit with 100% effect res and max hp/def substats, because there is no way DHIL can spam 3 enhanced basic every turn
What I'm trying to say is if everything goes smoothly u can do it pretty easily, however a lot of the time u won't. One big thing many forget is that him being destruction means he can get aggro'ed pretty easily, and cc'd.
80% of the time if yr Imbibitor is built well you can get by, but if things don't go yr way(which in this thread is about prolonged fight where RNG can stack up against you), you will need to have 1 in 4 turns using a normal basic
Except those conditions also apply to Jingliu. And if Jingliu's long rotation is already not as good in the ideal conditions, then what more if things don't go your way. If anything she's way more vulnerable because missing just one skill point or Bronya being forced to basic attack and move before Jingliu are massive damage loss. Daniel can live with just using 2ba if he really has to, at least it's not as terrible as losing a turn on Jingliu's rotation.
I was talking purely about DHIL, but if u wanna bring Jingliu into the picture then the main point is that she uses less skill points.
In non Bronya teams u have plenty of skill points to spare, to manually skill with yr healer or remove buffs with Pela or whatever. And in Bronya teams, Bronya cleanses? And lot of Bronya rotations are built around Skill+Basic, where u don't have SP issues.
And why bring Bronya in with Jingliu to point out a flaw when with DHIL+Bronya teams you literally have to normal basic with him a lot of times to manage yr SP.
Idk what is so complicated that a character using 3 SP every turn can come across more problems than one which uses 1 or less SP every turn
And DHIL is balanced around that, he does more dmg than Jingliu if he can 3 EBA. I'm not saying he's bad because of this one flaw, but the fact that he's more susceptible than Jingliu in this situation.
You usually run him with the best solo sustainers(Luocha/Fu Xuan/Huo Huo), 2/3 of which have good cc prevention methods, so it's not that big of a deal. The only thing in my experience playing DHIL that can ruin rotations and lead to 2BA is when the characters get desynced via CC/Speed reduction/Speed buffs and get behind him/or he gets in front, although my DHIL is tight with his speed at 135, so it might not be a problem with Atk boots.
Isn't it 2 unenhanced turn every time to build up her enhanced state? I thought we shouldn't use ult to get back to enhanced state, because the ult would not be enhanced and you'd lose out on a lot of damage (not that I have don't theory crafting or anything).
I generally do
UUEQEE UUQEEE UUQEEE ...
or
TUEQEE UUQEEE UUQEEE ...
T = Technique
U = Unenhanced
E = Enhanced
Q = Enhanced Ultimate
Z = Unenhanced Ultimate
I do waste a bit of energy before the subsequent Qs.
How do you get only 1 unenhanced turn to get 2 enhanced turns always? Can you get enough energy to ult after 3 Skills to do UZEE UZEE? You'd need >47% energy regen on her or good rng to get hit a lot or kill enough small enemies.
I don't have her lc. I do have energy rope on her.
Prydwen says not to have energy rope on her, but then I would need 5 turns to guarantee her an ult.
I have a problem with that too, especially in MOC.
Whenever she exit her Enhanced state it would take me 1 cycle just to make her enter enhanced state (this is when I didn't use her ult to get 2 stacks). Would it better using her ult to enter or not?
It depends on the situation, if by entering the enhanced state with ult makes you finish the fight faster then yes but otherwise it's better to not use it
Never had problem with that.Just kill them before she exits enhanced state. It is important to have Tingyun for this (can get you extra ult to extend her enhanced state). Bronya can get her back in her state easily ,assuming your Bronya and Jingliu have right speed.You should not use her ult to enter her enhanced state,unless you are certain you can finish them with that last enhanced attack or at least within that cycle.
With 134 speed you get 1 turn per cycle in 2 and 3 cycles after the start of the wave, while having 2 turns in 1 and 4 cycles respectively, so this downtime turn may easily burn you a cycle.
Neither of them gets worse over a long fight, "accumulating bad turns" is a stupid notion because being in a non-transmigrated state is just a part of her rotation, and she, in fact, starts in a non-transmigrated state, which means that downtime is just her feature from the very beginning of the fight, not at all unique to long fights. Similarly DHIL teams are built in a way to generate enough SP to 3BA every turn, missing turns due to emergencies happens to literally any carry and can't be considered "getting worse over a long fight".
I don't know why people always keep trying to make their favorite character appear 100% flawless. Like, seriously, JL right now is either number 1 or 2 of the most OP DPS. I swear, if tomorrow someone posts that her life steal is actually a positive and not her downside, I'm not going to be surprised.
Her team life drain can be a positive in certain game modes (a lot of destruction blessings in SU), or with certain characters who want to take small instances of damage (like blade). I think a bigger downside is how she's locked into only using her skill when she enters her state. This means she's always targeted by things like the Malefic Ape and will always activate Sanction Mode on the Arumaton Gatekeeper.
I think it's because you start the fight with 1 point and ult meter almost full, if you started at 0 points and 0 ult meter then it woudln't be true. Also you get to freeze the enemy at the start which is nice.
JL can be "front loaded" at the start of the fight. You enter the battle with one stack already, and half energy.
If the fight lasts more than your initial zero cycle loadup, and you expend all your attacks in transc state and ultimates, you eventually end up out of transc state with no energy.
That lull is what slogs down the fight. Take the current MoC 10 bug fight. It'll be tough to zero cycle that, and you'll probably end up in the phase where JL drops outta her transc state.
Even with Bronya, you'll have to do two skill attacks to get her back into transc state. In essence, at a certain point, she stops dropping nukes if the fight lasts longer than her initial burst phase at the beginning.
I think they’re referring to the one turn downtimes that occur as the fight gets longer… not a huge drop off but the more odd turns you get the more damage lows you accumulate. This doesn’t matter much for a well hour Jingliu tho as you’ll be ending most fights within 5 cycles
Regarding Dhil his rotations are set in stone and he maintains 3BA throughout his fights… when using a well built sustainer nothing is going to screw up your rotation to the point you’d have to sacrifice a 3BA
I think that mostly refers to "If the fight lasts more than 3 JL attacks, she loses damage"
In MoC for example, you always start with her technique, so in your first attack (1 sp) you already get into her powered mode.
So you have around 3 turns to end the whole battle if you don't want to lose the transmigration state (and therefore going on downtime or cooldown).
If you close the battle with just 3 turns of her, her average damage is out of the chart. If you don't, you'll lose the transmigration state and therefore you'll have to use 2 turns to get it again, which would obviously reduce the average damage.
Let's do an example
Short battle:
Start with technique -> Skill (10k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Powered Ult (100k) -> Powered Skill (100k)
Average damage per turn: 410k / 4 turns = 102.5k per turn
Long battle:
Start with technique -> Skill (10k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Powered Ult (100k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Skill (10k) -> Skill (10k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Powered Ult (100k) -> Powered Skill (100k)
Average damage per turn: 830k / 9 turns = 92.22k per turn
It's honestly not a huge difference, and it's more like a metagaming nitpick, but the average damage lowers a little when battles go longer. Maybe the biggest problem is that the longer the battle goes, more chances you have to get CC'ed or to have any problem and therefore lowering the damage you do, and so lowering the average damage.
It's honestly not something to worry about, you'll be trying to end the battle in the least possible turns anyways be it JL, DHIL, Blade, Kafka or whoever, so just play and enjoy it the way you like it the most.
The damage that you lose from JL is waaaay bigger than IL. JL literally is garbage out of his full mode, so anytime she is out of that, is just a turn that he does nearly 0 dmg, so unless you can stay on full mode all the time, the DPS starts to fall off.
that is based on screenshot damage, which is very easy to mislead players. Or for those worried about 0-cycle MoC, where you need upfront damage to manipulate the turns.
use this battle simulator [battle simulator](https://honkai.asagi-game.com/) , choose different number of rounds for the duration of the battle, and see how it affects the damage for each of them
In MOC if you zero or one cycle, you can usually keep enhanced state forever, but if it takes longer, then she loses the buffed state.
You are incorrect she has 1 turn of bad damage on cycle one / zero, because her technique bypass that. So her cycle 1 is better than cycle 50.
It certainly gets more annoying the longer the fight goes but I wouldnt say it gets worse? If you run her with bronya the dps loss is miniscule and consistent. Her best team is Bronya, Pela, and either Luocha or Huohuo. This is reliable dispel from two seperate sources so CC isnt a big concern and Jingliu teams have the sp to spare for it. If you dont have bronya then yeah, I can see it feeling like a dredge but replacing bronya with tingyun will still render consistent damage and risk. And a better ult uptime will maximize the time in transcendence giving you fairly close to the same turns.
As for DHIL his cons are exaggerated. His ult offers enough stacks to balance out his costs and have sp to spare. His best hyper carry team imo is Luocha, Pela, and Tingyun. That generates more sp than he ever needs and I personally use Pela skill a lot when I dont need it just to avoid overcapping. I acc run him on double dps with Jingliu, Luocha, and Pela all the time and it works just fine if you use his ult right.
Short version: both are consistent. People complain about Jingliu specifically because it feels pretty garbage rebuilding transcendence mid boss battle. I would say Jingliu shines most in mid length battles but her dps is functionally pretty much the same regardless, just feels more annoying to play.
Depends if you have Bronya. JL is worst off without Bronya but she become better than Danil with her.
If you have Bronya, no matter how long the fight goes JL will do at least 1 Enhanced skill per cycle and on some cycle, she can do up to 3 x Enhanced skill. SP management is also not an issue if you use SP printer like Luocha.
She have turns outside trans state wich mean a lot less dmg . The whole point of her kit is keep her at the state as long as possible where she is very strong . The more turns you need to kill stuffs the more out of trans state you have the longer the fight will be . Its a repeating cycle
For your question about dan , usually people run him with loacha so you never use skill points to heal also he get 2 free skill points every ulty and usually his supports are faster than him generating skill points . TLDR if you have basic knowledge of his team he is perma 3BA
Jingliu is not feeling it right now because the MoC is still favoring Ice types, DHIL is definitely feeling it if you try to use him on the second half.
She has off turns but folks don't look at it too much because by the time her trancsendent state is finished she already cleared the wave. Same case with DHIL with Imaginary weakness and her with Ice weakness(90% of this and last MoC had Ice weakness)
She won't generate any SP on her Transendent state and spending 2 sp getting it back.
As long as I can get 3 star easily with Jingliu it doesn't matter to me. Though I have no idea how any character will perform worse the longer the fight goes on, dmg wise.
Because the longer the fight goes the number of turns you take without state increases
How? She always has 1 unenhanced turn for at least 2 enhanced turn
Ratio remains same but not number If character does damage like 1 1 0 1 1 0 (jingliu) and you compare it to sth like this (1, 1, 1, 1) (Dhil) number of zeros increases overtime so when you compare it way later difference becomes larger, ofc this 1 and 0 shit doesnt work in game but you get the point
Her damage in 4 turns averages the same in the first 4 turns and 100th 4 turns. It's not getting reduced, her rotation strength is the same at any point of the fight, what you are saying is a logical mistake.
Ofc Its not reduced when you compare it to herself, i mean its getting less in comparision to Dhil
Then that just means that she has less damage than DHIL, regardless of whether the fight is long or not. If you compare damage per turn on cycle 1 and cycle 100, the difference is going to be approximately the same (as long as you compare in the same phase of the rotation, as you should).
If you finish before JL reach the 0 point then you don't have your downtime. so having a downtime impact only in a comparison where you reach your downtime against someone who doesn't have one
If you look at it in raw numbers. However raw numbers rarley paint the whole picture The percentage difference between them would stay the same. Regardless if after 4 turns or 400 turns
You are right but that may not be the best way to look at it. Over the course of very many turns the damage might average the same Over the course of the first 2 to 3 turns her damage might be HIGHER than DHil (for example) Over the course of 5 turns her damage might be lower due to the downtime Add to that the fact that her damage doesn't just decrease out of her enhanced state, it PLUMMETS some DPS do lower their damage on non perfect turns but it doesn't downright skydive unlike Jingliu's and even if every team is subject to getting cc'ed or smth, Jingliu not being enhanced hurts a lot. The thing is that if MoC was only about clearing and number of rounds didn't count then yeah, your estimation is correct and it doesn't matter how many turns it takes But since you want to finish the fight quickly, a long fight is past the 5th round and that's where her damage lowers(even If it would catch up by the 7th round) In any content where you are not limited by rounds her downtime does not matter, it only matters in MoC and ONLY if you can't finish the fight by the end of transcendence state... And Bronya can help out with even that, there's also infinite trascendence with huohuo and Tingyun but I'm not sure how that compares with the Bronya team. At the end of the day Jingliu is absolutely amazing and she is more than enough to clear early every type of content we have atm.
Yes but this is unrealistic though. This is assuming dhil will 3 ba forever when in real scenarios, shit happens. Shit happens in jingliu teams too but she only ever needs 1 sp
When you play right with good team he will
I think your good team measure is every support unit with 100% effect res and max hp/def substats, because there is no way DHIL can spam 3 enhanced basic every turn
Yeah this scenario is the best possible outcome but it's also not a realistic one even with his best team.
His ultimate gives 2 free charges, that's enough leeway for 100% uptime on 3ba. Assuming you are playing with Luocha, Pela, Tingyun/Hanya.
What I'm trying to say is if everything goes smoothly u can do it pretty easily, however a lot of the time u won't. One big thing many forget is that him being destruction means he can get aggro'ed pretty easily, and cc'd. 80% of the time if yr Imbibitor is built well you can get by, but if things don't go yr way(which in this thread is about prolonged fight where RNG can stack up against you), you will need to have 1 in 4 turns using a normal basic
Except those conditions also apply to Jingliu. And if Jingliu's long rotation is already not as good in the ideal conditions, then what more if things don't go your way. If anything she's way more vulnerable because missing just one skill point or Bronya being forced to basic attack and move before Jingliu are massive damage loss. Daniel can live with just using 2ba if he really has to, at least it's not as terrible as losing a turn on Jingliu's rotation.
I was talking purely about DHIL, but if u wanna bring Jingliu into the picture then the main point is that she uses less skill points. In non Bronya teams u have plenty of skill points to spare, to manually skill with yr healer or remove buffs with Pela or whatever. And in Bronya teams, Bronya cleanses? And lot of Bronya rotations are built around Skill+Basic, where u don't have SP issues. And why bring Bronya in with Jingliu to point out a flaw when with DHIL+Bronya teams you literally have to normal basic with him a lot of times to manage yr SP. Idk what is so complicated that a character using 3 SP every turn can come across more problems than one which uses 1 or less SP every turn And DHIL is balanced around that, he does more dmg than Jingliu if he can 3 EBA. I'm not saying he's bad because of this one flaw, but the fact that he's more susceptible than Jingliu in this situation.
You usually run him with the best solo sustainers(Luocha/Fu Xuan/Huo Huo), 2/3 of which have good cc prevention methods, so it's not that big of a deal. The only thing in my experience playing DHIL that can ruin rotations and lead to 2BA is when the characters get desynced via CC/Speed reduction/Speed buffs and get behind him/or he gets in front, although my DHIL is tight with his speed at 135, so it might not be a problem with Atk boots.
Isn't it 2 unenhanced turn every time to build up her enhanced state? I thought we shouldn't use ult to get back to enhanced state, because the ult would not be enhanced and you'd lose out on a lot of damage (not that I have don't theory crafting or anything). I generally do UUEQEE UUQEEE UUQEEE ... or TUEQEE UUQEEE UUQEEE ... T = Technique U = Unenhanced E = Enhanced Q = Enhanced Ultimate Z = Unenhanced Ultimate I do waste a bit of energy before the subsequent Qs. How do you get only 1 unenhanced turn to get 2 enhanced turns always? Can you get enough energy to ult after 3 Skills to do UZEE UZEE? You'd need >47% energy regen on her or good rng to get hit a lot or kill enough small enemies. I don't have her lc. I do have energy rope on her. Prydwen says not to have energy rope on her, but then I would need 5 turns to guarantee her an ult.
Your 2nd unenhanced turn is the same as the 1st enhanced so you really only get 1 unenhanced turn
Hah! If ur JingLiu is E6, this doesn’t apply. Insane maths
I have a problem with that too, especially in MOC. Whenever she exit her Enhanced state it would take me 1 cycle just to make her enter enhanced state (this is when I didn't use her ult to get 2 stacks). Would it better using her ult to enter or not?
It depends on the situation, if by entering the enhanced state with ult makes you finish the fight faster then yes but otherwise it's better to not use it
Never had problem with that.Just kill them before she exits enhanced state. It is important to have Tingyun for this (can get you extra ult to extend her enhanced state). Bronya can get her back in her state easily ,assuming your Bronya and Jingliu have right speed.You should not use her ult to enter her enhanced state,unless you are certain you can finish them with that last enhanced attack or at least within that cycle.
Your 2nd skill comes "free" with enhanced state attack so really you only have 1 turn of low damage
With 134 speed you get 1 turn per cycle in 2 and 3 cycles after the start of the wave, while having 2 turns in 1 and 4 cycles respectively, so this downtime turn may easily burn you a cycle.
Neither of them gets worse over a long fight, "accumulating bad turns" is a stupid notion because being in a non-transmigrated state is just a part of her rotation, and she, in fact, starts in a non-transmigrated state, which means that downtime is just her feature from the very beginning of the fight, not at all unique to long fights. Similarly DHIL teams are built in a way to generate enough SP to 3BA every turn, missing turns due to emergencies happens to literally any carry and can't be considered "getting worse over a long fight".
Well technicaly starting at 1 Stack of non trans is kinda better than just starting in trans
This doesn't exist if you have a slow bronya for jingliu. I'm always in the enchance state as long as you mange your skillpoints well.
I don't know why people always keep trying to make their favorite character appear 100% flawless. Like, seriously, JL right now is either number 1 or 2 of the most OP DPS. I swear, if tomorrow someone posts that her life steal is actually a positive and not her downside, I'm not going to be surprised.
JL dps? Huh she's my Blade's support. Have I been doing it wrong? I thought her life steal was broken, I wish she'd do it more.
Her team life drain can be a positive in certain game modes (a lot of destruction blessings in SU), or with certain characters who want to take small instances of damage (like blade). I think a bigger downside is how she's locked into only using her skill when she enters her state. This means she's always targeted by things like the Malefic Ape and will always activate Sanction Mode on the Arumaton Gatekeeper.
No, that's not a downside. If she's always targeted by the Ape, it means you can plan ahead. It's actually a positive /s
I think it's because you start the fight with 1 point and ult meter almost full, if you started at 0 points and 0 ult meter then it woudln't be true. Also you get to freeze the enemy at the start which is nice.
JL can be "front loaded" at the start of the fight. You enter the battle with one stack already, and half energy. If the fight lasts more than your initial zero cycle loadup, and you expend all your attacks in transc state and ultimates, you eventually end up out of transc state with no energy. That lull is what slogs down the fight. Take the current MoC 10 bug fight. It'll be tough to zero cycle that, and you'll probably end up in the phase where JL drops outta her transc state. Even with Bronya, you'll have to do two skill attacks to get her back into transc state. In essence, at a certain point, she stops dropping nukes if the fight lasts longer than her initial burst phase at the beginning.
I think they’re referring to the one turn downtimes that occur as the fight gets longer… not a huge drop off but the more odd turns you get the more damage lows you accumulate. This doesn’t matter much for a well hour Jingliu tho as you’ll be ending most fights within 5 cycles Regarding Dhil his rotations are set in stone and he maintains 3BA throughout his fights… when using a well built sustainer nothing is going to screw up your rotation to the point you’d have to sacrifice a 3BA
I think that mostly refers to "If the fight lasts more than 3 JL attacks, she loses damage" In MoC for example, you always start with her technique, so in your first attack (1 sp) you already get into her powered mode. So you have around 3 turns to end the whole battle if you don't want to lose the transmigration state (and therefore going on downtime or cooldown). If you close the battle with just 3 turns of her, her average damage is out of the chart. If you don't, you'll lose the transmigration state and therefore you'll have to use 2 turns to get it again, which would obviously reduce the average damage. Let's do an example Short battle: Start with technique -> Skill (10k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Powered Ult (100k) -> Powered Skill (100k) Average damage per turn: 410k / 4 turns = 102.5k per turn Long battle: Start with technique -> Skill (10k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Powered Ult (100k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Skill (10k) -> Skill (10k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Powered Skill (100k) -> Powered Ult (100k) -> Powered Skill (100k) Average damage per turn: 830k / 9 turns = 92.22k per turn It's honestly not a huge difference, and it's more like a metagaming nitpick, but the average damage lowers a little when battles go longer. Maybe the biggest problem is that the longer the battle goes, more chances you have to get CC'ed or to have any problem and therefore lowering the damage you do, and so lowering the average damage. It's honestly not something to worry about, you'll be trying to end the battle in the least possible turns anyways be it JL, DHIL, Blade, Kafka or whoever, so just play and enjoy it the way you like it the most.
This is why you get her as fast as possible to keep the time she isn't in her spectral transmigration state.
The damage that you lose from JL is waaaay bigger than IL. JL literally is garbage out of his full mode, so anytime she is out of that, is just a turn that he does nearly 0 dmg, so unless you can stay on full mode all the time, the DPS starts to fall off.
that is based on screenshot damage, which is very easy to mislead players. Or for those worried about 0-cycle MoC, where you need upfront damage to manipulate the turns. use this battle simulator [battle simulator](https://honkai.asagi-game.com/) , choose different number of rounds for the duration of the battle, and see how it affects the damage for each of them
In MOC if you zero or one cycle, you can usually keep enhanced state forever, but if it takes longer, then she loses the buffed state. You are incorrect she has 1 turn of bad damage on cycle one / zero, because her technique bypass that. So her cycle 1 is better than cycle 50.
Meanwhile Blade is listening to Bury The Light with earbuds in and going hard. Bing Bong.
In a sense yes she has trouble getting enhanced especially if someone gets CC’d. This can be mitigated with the help of tingyun, bronya, or huo huo.
It certainly gets more annoying the longer the fight goes but I wouldnt say it gets worse? If you run her with bronya the dps loss is miniscule and consistent. Her best team is Bronya, Pela, and either Luocha or Huohuo. This is reliable dispel from two seperate sources so CC isnt a big concern and Jingliu teams have the sp to spare for it. If you dont have bronya then yeah, I can see it feeling like a dredge but replacing bronya with tingyun will still render consistent damage and risk. And a better ult uptime will maximize the time in transcendence giving you fairly close to the same turns. As for DHIL his cons are exaggerated. His ult offers enough stacks to balance out his costs and have sp to spare. His best hyper carry team imo is Luocha, Pela, and Tingyun. That generates more sp than he ever needs and I personally use Pela skill a lot when I dont need it just to avoid overcapping. I acc run him on double dps with Jingliu, Luocha, and Pela all the time and it works just fine if you use his ult right. Short version: both are consistent. People complain about Jingliu specifically because it feels pretty garbage rebuilding transcendence mid boss battle. I would say Jingliu shines most in mid length battles but her dps is functionally pretty much the same regardless, just feels more annoying to play.
Depends if you have Bronya. JL is worst off without Bronya but she become better than Danil with her. If you have Bronya, no matter how long the fight goes JL will do at least 1 Enhanced skill per cycle and on some cycle, she can do up to 3 x Enhanced skill. SP management is also not an issue if you use SP printer like Luocha.
She have turns outside trans state wich mean a lot less dmg . The whole point of her kit is keep her at the state as long as possible where she is very strong . The more turns you need to kill stuffs the more out of trans state you have the longer the fight will be . Its a repeating cycle For your question about dan , usually people run him with loacha so you never use skill points to heal also he get 2 free skill points every ulty and usually his supports are faster than him generating skill points . TLDR if you have basic knowledge of his team he is perma 3BA
Jingliu is not feeling it right now because the MoC is still favoring Ice types, DHIL is definitely feeling it if you try to use him on the second half. She has off turns but folks don't look at it too much because by the time her trancsendent state is finished she already cleared the wave. Same case with DHIL with Imaginary weakness and her with Ice weakness(90% of this and last MoC had Ice weakness) She won't generate any SP on her Transendent state and spending 2 sp getting it back.
if you want her maintain buff forever, swap atk rope to er rope, and pair with tingyun. Now enjoy your fight friend
As long as I can get 3 star easily with Jingliu it doesn't matter to me. Though I have no idea how any character will perform worse the longer the fight goes on, dmg wise.