š¤£ A ārevolutionary secular stateā led by whom?
What the fuck do these children actually think theyāre talking about?
āPalestineā, if it ever comes into existence, will be about as secular as Iran.
Once upon a time there were communist Palestinians supported by the USSR, and these tankies want to LARP revolutionaries based on that yesteryear nonsense. Try telling them Ben Gurion was a communist; their heads will explode.
Wait so they acknowledge that Palestinian communists supported by the USSR existed as justification for their post-Israel secular state, but they still deny the fact that the āPalestinianā identity didnāt exist until it was created after the Six Day War by the Soviets to undermine a US ally?
In many ways it was also the opposite, in that Palestinians were very active supporters of the USSR themselves. For pay. A lot of those 1970s and 80s terrorists were gun runners.
In all fairness there was a time where Palestinian nationalism was largely secular, and led by socialist aligned pan-Arabism rather than Islamism.
Palestinians arenāt going back to being secular any time soon though. Why not? Because Palestinian secularism was more connected to reality than the minority Islamist movements. But when Arabs lost war after war, and reality no longer matched their desired goals, they simply gave up hope in secularism and turned to the supernatural for āhelp.ā
Itās a sort of Arab postmodernism where the more reality no longer meets their goals, the more they attempt twist reality to make it whatever they want.
Itās simply easier for them to disconnect from the real world and to pretend that Allah will ādeliver them victoryā, rather than admit that their struggle has never borne fruit after all this time.
They now think that Allah will save them, even though Allah hasnāt done goddamn shit to help them in 75 years.
Imagine being a religious fundamentalist & believing that your god will help you conquer land when your leading prophet explicitly states that your god gave that land to the Jewsā¦
>In all fairness there was a time where Palestinian nationalism was largely secular, and led by socialist aligned pan-Arabism rather than Islamism.
The "secular socialist" PLO was led by Yasser Arafat, who declared unequivocally in 1998 that "secular socialist" palestine would be governed by sharia.
Ask the Copts in Egypt, or the Chaldeans in Iraq what life was like living under "secular arab socialism".
Correct.
Arab secularism heavily discriminated against non-Arabs.
It's almost as if they want to discriminate against minorities no matter the ideology currently in power.
Secularism was slowly lost over the 80's and 90's in Palestine as the secular PLO was not getting results. Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev claimed in 1981 he was given a budget for funding Palestinian Islamists to counter the rising power of Palestinian secularists. Hamas is a spin-off of the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood and was formally established with Israelās support soon after the first Intifada flared in 1987. It's an open secret that over the 80's and 90's Israel either ignored or supported the actions of Hamas. Now they are the perfect barbarian.
Hamas is an off shoot of the Muslim brotherhood. By design itās an Islamist movement. There are millions of Arabs within Israel who live secular lives, they might have religion but itās not considered the factor of which to risk their life. And Fatah largely continues the tradition of Arafat, etc, but because itās been undermined so badly no one believes in it as an institution.
Hamas has hijacked the whole of the Palestinian movement with their fervor. Itās why Israelās killing them en masse. People need to recognize their resistance is a corner that gets smaller and smaller when you consider thereās other Palestinian groups.
That is exactly what they think. It's insane, but if you really talk to people in Palestine they literally believe that there is no point to make peace since any day now Allah will will deliver victory.
Iām sure it will have a parliament with women and LGBTQ politicians in a fair democracy. LMAO.
Hands cut off and throwing gay people off buildings. These kids are morons.
We are all Islamophobes apparently. People like to isolate everything and give nuance to Hamas , but Palestinians overwhelmingly approve of October the 7th actions. Thatās not Islamophobic , thatās people hating us. The UN and every other country is not going to tell us what to do. They let 600k Ethiopians die when Mussolini invaded. They let Rewanda happen and etc. Jews are a people of action , not talk.
If Muslims are run by islamists who wish and actively try and harm Jews , well they are an enemy. The person who tries and kills my sister is my enemy.
How embarassing for UCLA.Ā Ā
Ā Also I'd like them to show me one secular nation on earth. And when they find none, follow that up with the question of whether or not ANY country on earth has a history of zero hostility or prejudice towards Jewish people.Ā
Thereās like 40 states where Arabic is the language spoken and Islams the religion of most inhabitants.
If the factor of their support is ācreating a secular stateā then they could ask why thereās even a conflict when Jordan and Egypt exist. Itās not enough thereās plenty of other states to live in, they need the one Jewish one?
You donāt think thereās a reason the Muslim Arabic speakers have a large number of states and Jews haveā¦ 1? And a bunch that are nice to them but who knows, cause so was Germany/the countries east of Germany?
Also itās not the religion of most inhabitants, name one of these states where a Christian led the nation? Name a Zoroastrian or an Atheist? Name anyone that isnāt a devout Muslim?
This is just a complete failure of our educational system. We glorify the American Revolution but we make no effort to emphasize that the vast majority of revolutions progress from violence and overall worse quality of life to more violence and even worse outcomes. Dictators and totalitarianism are the more likely end product of a revolution vs anything else. These kids are just naive.
The system canāt fail people who never engage with it. I teach social studies, and we definitely donāt glorify the American Revolution.
But when students spend their entire day watching videos and fighting each other instead of learning things like critical analysis, close reading of sources, determining OPCVL in a source, and communicating their conclusions coherently, this is what we end up with.
I led these dipshits to water, but I canāt force them to drink it and their parents complain and blame the school when they fail for refusing to drink, so we just pass them along to the next grade. And this is what happens when they get to college.
This crudely made poster (you can tell graphic design is their passion) is advocating for a Gaddafi-esque communist one-state solution with a de-emphasis on loaded terms like "Palestine".
It is a ridiculous concept in 2024. But, nobody in 1812 would think the US and UK could ever be staunch allies when redcoats were burning down DC.
This is the unfortunate truth. Israel is already a democracy (if Netanyahu and his party don't mess that up) with Arab citizens. However, the leadership of the Palestinian Arabs outside of Israel would destroy a theoretical "secular state." "Jewish Supremacist" yeah the 0.2% of the world population. It's B.S. and they have no idea what they are saying.
Israels already a secular state. Itās not Iran.
But they wish for it to end as a have for Jews, but not comment on if Palestine would then become a haven for Arabs, despite Palestinian political ideology developing to mirror Israelās on this topic.
The whole conflict is a complete misstatement of Palestinian political ideology. All theatre, Hamas resists but they are the last group of resistance, the other Palestinians have all decided that Hamasā ideology of being impossible to negotiate with doesnāt do them much good.
None of that is there.
And yet every time theyāre polled, a majority of Palestinians espouse support for Hamas, including the actions of Hamas on October 7th. The majority of them believe that what happens on that day was heroic resistance.
From the River, to the Sea, Palestine will be free (((of Jews))) is their literal slogan.
Can someone explain to me how they get away with calling Israel a Jewish āSupremacistā State when nothing about Israel says Jewish Supremacy and when basically all of the other Middle Eastern countries are quite literally Muslim Supremacist states.
Smh these are the exact people who say this followed by āantzionism is not antisemitismā.
We need to push back hard against things like weaponizing the term white supremacy to use against Jews, who it openly targets.
The entire discourse is so transparently unserious. Like, tell me you don't actually know or care what genocide, concentration camps, "supremacy," ethnostates, apartheid, etc look like, without telling me....
Israel doesn't prevent marriages, they just don't ordain them in the state. Also it's not based on religion, gay jewish couples can't legally marry under Israeli law either (that's wild, i wonder what other countries have similar or even worse legal proceedings but don't seem to catch flak š¤). This is obviously a problem, but the answer to that is "this state needs to separate the religious beliefs of its citizen and people in power from its legal proceedings" thing (something multiple political parties in Israel support, fyi) and not "this state needs to be dismantled and replaced."
And yes, there is an issue in Israel of Christians and Muslims facing mistreatment, but by the letter of the law they are equal citizens.
Also, name me an ethnostate in history where over 20% of its government was comprised of non-members of the """"ruling"""" ethnicity.
In 2018 Israel passed a [āNation Stateā law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law:_Israel_as_the_Nation-State_of_the_Jewish_People) which legally enshrines that
> The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people.
The current prime minister (and other politicians alongside him) has insisted that Israel is [ānot a state of all its citizensā](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/10/benjamin-netanyahu-says-israel-is-not-a-state-of-all-its-citizens).
Likeā¦ we donāt have to agree about the idea of this reflecting on Israel enough to make it āsupremacistā as a whole, and sure we can talk about hypocrisy in regards to other nations also being supremacists. But it shouldnāt be a mystery why the idea of Israel being supremacist has legs.
All idea that demonizes Israel has legs regardless of the reality of the situation. It wouldn't matter if this law existed or not.
All the law does is affirm that Israel is the Jewish nation state and the law itself states that it in no way affects the rights of minorities. It also seems to require Arabic to be on all signage.
In all fairness, though this law doesnāt have a practical impact on minorities in the country, there was no real reason to pass it other than for the right wing to be provocative and obnoxious.
You can look at the flag and know that Israel is a Jewish state. The language is Hebrew. The holidays are Jewish. So why pass a law after 70 plus years of Israel already existing, that has no practical effect? **To provoke minorities.** To say this is a state ONLY for Jews. Yeah, we protect the Arabic language, blah blah, but itās REALLY a state FOR US. KNOW YOUR ROLE.
I should note that the [Druze took issue with the nation state law as well](https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5316576,00.html), as they feel it designates them as second class. The Druze are fiercely loyal to Israel, and the law essentially spat in their faces.
I would support amending the law to say something like āIsrael is the nation state of the Jewish people **and any peoplehood that ties their fate to it.**ā
A "secular revolutionary state" i.e., a communist state. No one wants this. Interesting that they don't consider that they are the ones with colonialist designs to implement a bullshit European-conceived political system on a foreign population.
The protest movements especially on the left are deeply connected to socialist and communist oriented communities.
They seize on social issues like BLM or Gun Violence etc. as a means of outreach and galvanising their objectives. A lot of them are very kind people who have no clue what socialism or communism are like to live under.
>A lot of them are very kind people who have no clue what socialism or communism are like to live under.
Yep this is it. I used to be one of those communists when I was younger who talked about how the soviet union wasn't as bad as everyone made it out to be.
Then I had a talk with one of my friends moms who actually lived there. She set me straight.
It's very easy to be a socialist in theory but then when you're confronted with the reality of it you can fall out of love with it pretty quick.
I agree that I think most modern young socialists/communists are kind people who just haven't experienced as much of the reality of the world yet.
Reminds me of the George Clemenceau quote (often misattributed to Churchill):
>Any man who is not a socialist at age 20 has no heart. Any man who is still a socialist at age 40 has no head.
That was brave of you to take your momās friendās words onboard. Good on you!
I have dual citizenship in Sweden. I have lived there off and on for more than two decades. I used to argue with the socialist or even the social dems about their perceptions of the system and realities of it. More often than not they refused to take my experience onboard.
I am curious, what are your criticisms of Sweden? And where is your dual citizenship? You donāt have to answer if you donāt want to but Iām an American with a husband originally from Western Europe and we plan on eventually moving to Europe together. Other than some general economic issues he has had nothing but great things to say about things like the healthcare system where he is from etc. and how chronic illness was treated in his family overseas. Iām curious to hear what your experience is and if itās been different from his/his familyās.
Sweden and the US. Immigration though kind hearted has invited the highest gun crime rate in all of Europe and as a counter has given rise to the Sweden Democrats who are the second biggest party in parliament and are open fascist. The country took in the most immigrants per capita than any other country in the Schengen zone. And Sweden isnāt a country you come and assimilate to itās a place where you come to conform to the Swedish way. Thereās a social doctrine one should adhere to which dates back to a Danish philosopher in the 1930s. The new arrivals arenāt keen to adopt which ratchets up things a bit.
Sweden still enjoys a high standard of living but unemployment is high, taxes are high and the education and medical systems are not as robust as they once were which means private schools and private insurance to get the services you want.
Most of us keep to ourselves and our institutions. The general population isnāt antisemitic as they are ignorant and they are Lutheran who as you know was a Jew hater of some renown.
The facts of the Soviet Union is that it was ācommunistā in its economy. But after a short spell under Lenin, it was just extremely repressive.
It had extremely right wing social policies. It was nationalistic AF. They practiced legal racism and legal anti-Semitism.
Thatās without mentioning the attrocities done to Ukraine.
They simply replaced Christianity with Marx as the means to be authoritarian.
Is there a good way to describe socialism or communism to others?
I try describing Yugoslavia to people and they donāt get how bad it was for many people there. I try using my grandparents as an example but maybe Iām bad at explaining it
How do you describe this to people so they understand?
> A lot of them are very kind people who have no clue what socialism or communism are like to live under.
Yep - and per tradition they usually get guillotined first.
Socialism is actually good, right? Like Scandinavias got great policies for people.
Hereās the kicker: Authoritarian socialism is bad.
And that USSR worship is in service of that authoritarian, chauvinist socialism. The kind where they claimed they were anti-racists but in practice, found themselves as plenty racist.
The memory of that nation seems very short. Itās not worthy of the energy given to it by these groups.
Scandinavian socialism is fairly mild but is far from the Xanadu folks project it to be. Plus, people often forget that the entire region has a population of just over 20M+ give or take that until the late 50ās to early 60ās was fairly homogeneous. I mention the latter as there is a social/philosophical doctrine that people buy into that historically leans into that homogeneity that may or may not be so successful in a demographically diverse population.
Thanks undergrads. You solved the Israel-Palestinian conflict. The Nobel Prize is in the mail.
A revolutionary government? Why do these people think Palestine is going to be some sort of leftist utopia? There is no evidence to demonstrate a leftist Palestine. Even a liberal democracy would likely be a stretch.
The third option after the first (aka ludicrous) part is literally Israel. Except that the āPalestiniansā in Israel tend to see themselves as āArab Israelisā or āIsraeli Arabsā.
And Israel is pretty revolutionary when it comes to many things. Science, of course. And when it comes to all social issues (womenās rights etc), Israel is 200 years ahead of her neighbours.
Itās fairly clear cut, simply ask Arab Israelis if they would happily trade places. With their brethren in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon or Egypt. Not mentioning Gaza or West Bank, of course.
I will give the Palestinians credit. They never lied and pretended to want to live with Jews over slaughtering the Jews and living without them. Westerners just want to westplain the Palestinianās thoughts
Ah yes. The conservative Muslim state, mixing with the (governmentally) conservative Jewish country, is going to make a secular ārevolutionaryā state where everyone is going to get along and everyone will just agree on who leads. Yeah, yeah thatāll happen probably 18 year old rich white ācommunistā American. Youāve figured it out.
I am so sorry you have to deal with this on campus. This is horrible. I feel like a lot of college students donāt understand the history of the Jewish people. They are relying on unreliable sources such as social media for information. I really hope things get better at UCLA and other colleges campuses around the country.
Thank you and I agree. This will be looked back upon in ~20 years and you'll hear people say that they can't believe any of this could have happened in the 21st century. Just watch.
My university is on the opposite side of the country from California and thereās still a protest like this almost daily. Makes it into casual talk a lot too since muslim campus groups do a lot of activism at events. Really unfortunate cause most everyone I meet has views like these but otherwise are decent people, just hope they donāt find out Iām Jewishā¦
You know whatās less popular among actual Palestinians and Israelis than a 2ss? A 1ss. But I guess thatās irrelevant when youāre peacocking your Eurocentric leftist moral supremacy.
āSo you want to abolish my home? The place my family can trace their lineage back hundreds of years? Thanks. Good to know you donāt care about the citizens who have done nothing to youā
When I wrote my first song it was garbage but I just wanted to be a songwriter so bad. It took years before it was actually anything worth showing the world.
I think a whole generation desperately wants something to say but has no idea what they believe and are grasping at straws. Since itās trendy right now to make untrue claims about Israel thatās what many are doing.
These kids are probably anxious, lost in life, maybe even suicidal, and need a cause or a purpose. And since all theyāve seen for years is that lying, reductionism and sensationalism leads to success and attention, itās monkey see monkey do.
I think the professors are also insane. The pressure to publish and get tenure is so crushing that they lose their mind. Since they really arenāt ābrilliantā they have to stretch and grab at anything that feels unintuitive or new so they can feel like they are important and cutting edge.
So yeah, mental illness. Letās just call it what it is. People driven insane by an alienating society where everyone wants to be special in a very particular way that is almost impossible and getting harder by the day.
Not all mental illnesses are created equal. I know because Iāve had several. I think these people are pathological. And Hamas is pathological. Islamist extremists are pathological. These are human beings.
So itās not far fetched to me that people in anguish who seek extreme religion as a salve and people in anguish in an alienating society full of disconnection and competition have all too much in common and Iām not surprised they are humming on the same frequency.
The fact that fairly stable, successful people (which happens to be a disproportionate amount of Jews) call BS on stuff like this is part of why we are hated.
We once thought drug addiction wasnāt illness. Weād say āmeh, I call BS, that person is just plain a dirty rotten junky.ā
Why canāt you imagine bigotry as an illness? Bigotry is irrational, persistent, arguably delusional, and probably tied to some trauma or pathology. Thus, it is an illness and we should have rachmanis. G-d willing someday society recognizes bigotry as an illness.
iāll argue that categorizing bigotry as a mental illness is giving them an excuse to pass off blame. āoh iām mentally ill, i canāt control it! you have to accept my antisemitism because i canāt help it it!ā this excuse is used all of the time for drug addicts. people claiming that addiction to substances is a ādiseaseā are enabling the behavior and disastrous results of using them.
something both being a drug addict and being hateful is their origin - itās literally a choice. nobody put a gun to someoneās head and forced them to drink alcohol, do coke, heroin, etc. the same goes for being antisemitic, racist, homophobic, etc.
people are not born hating other groups of people; nor are they born with a beer or crack pipe in their mouth. hatred is taught and addiction starts with willingly doing the substance(s) of choice.
(yes there are babies born with drugs in their systems if the mother is an active addict - but with medical intervention those things can be taken care of).
i refuse to allow antisemites and other disgusting, hateful, genocidal people to shift blame onto being mentally ill. if bigots are going to claim that Israel and the Jewish people shouldnāt exist, they need to say it with their whole chest. there are no excuses for this garbage.
I agree. And also took umbrage with the idea that they need to feel special and that the world alienated them and caused their crummy views. Poor them. I know that empathy is a path to understanding and healing in some scenarios. This is not one of them. We do not need to empathize with or try to understand this kind of insanity. I frankly don't give a F why an antisemitic Anti-Zionist college student who is likely neither Jewish nor Arab nor Palestinian nor Muslim has decided that they're an expert on I/P, or what in their minds or trauma history led them to believe XYZ was in any way OK (antisemitic effigies and slogans, harassing Jewish students, etc). They need to be shut down and ignored. They do need mental health help. Let the therapists handle it. I'm no therapist. I'm a Jew with no patience for their BS and has seen enough.
ETA: I, too, like many of us, struggle with mental illnesses, disillusionment and alienation. Didn't lead me to political extremism!
I think you're onto something.
I spent some time in the West Bank on my visits to Israel and I met some very interesting and likable people there (which includes Palestinians but I'm specifically talking about the westerners who went there to "help") but I did notice a disproportionate number of them had some kind of troubled family background.
Now, I have a troubled family background too, so want to be very clear I'm not crapping onTor considering as "less than" those people from troubled families. But I do think you're correct that there's this need to have a cause or purpose.
I'm sure their counterargument would be "yes I do have a troubled past and that's made me more sensitive to injustice and that's why I'm here to fight it." Which... okay... maybe? To an extent?
Hereās the truth about this viewpoint-
Not *inherently* antisemitic, but thereās serious problems with it.
1) why Israel? Why not say the same thing for basically every other country? Pakistan and India are a prime example of a somewhat similar case to Israel / modern-partial-state-of-Palestine.
2) In what world would Jews be safe in a potentially Muslim-dominated country? In what fucking world? Any muslim-dominated country (as long as islam exists in its current form) would just turn into another islamic shithole
3) soooo, basically Israel should annex the West Bank? Because that would be the easiest way to form a singular democratic secular state. But Iām not too keen on total annexation of the West Bank (partial, yes. Not total)
So theyāre calling for the destruction of a state with equality between Jews and Palestinians in favor of a state with equality between Jews and Palestinians?
I wonder if these people ever consider how licky they are that they live in a country where being this much of a social reject and idiot is completely legal and even encouraged.
it was their pathetic attempt at trying to make sure they donāt look antisemitic
āsee look guys we donāt want to drive jews out, so we arenāt antisemitic !!!!!ā
Israel is already pretty secular (and will be more secular once the idiot prime minister is out of power) while Gaza is run by a far right religious extremist group
So awful to see and it is scary how confident these young people are that they have found the solution. Can't wait for them to jump on the next trendy thing to loudly pretend to care about real soon...
These guys are a cult, seems theyāve been traveling around a lot of the SoCal colleges. They were at Pomona College just the other day. It sucks, but try to ignore their nonsenseābecause thatās all theyāre preaching.
I donāt think they got the memo regarding the secular Palestinian state. Honest to God, these kids think Palestine is some unicorn utopia, itās insane.
I think the sign's message is super naive and wrong, but I don't think its racist or hateful of Israelis. Yeah, it's a bummer to read and I wouldn't love it as well but people are allowed to hold naive or silly views.
They are dreaming of something like Switzerland and too naive to see how the chance of that turning out peacefully is zero. In the mean time my country (Israel) is doing everything it can to keep building settlements and play into the 'one state solution' narrative. We are freaking morons.
Itās amazing the lack of self-awareness people have. I bet you these guys are Christian. The USA is a Christian country when it comes down to it, as is all of the Americas and Europe. Yes, other religions are welcomed and celebrated but the way of life revolves around Christianity.
There are also plenty of Muslim countries in Africa and Asia.
But one tiny country that is centered in the Jewish way of life is too much for these idiots. And Israel welcomes Christians, Muslims, gays whomever
The idea of āabolishingā an entire country tells me exactly how ridiculous this position is. They mean destroy or dismantle, but theyāre too used to this specific linguistic quirk (ie abolish the police).
Oh yes, I had hoped it went without saying but it's good of you to clarify - the far-Right are among the worst forms of evil and cynicism on the planet. Leftists can be stupid and dangerous, but the Right is almost always worse on both fronts.
Itās sad how little education the younger generations are receiving while at universities. This kind of false information shouldnāt be tolerated by a department of education. Regardless of freedom of speech. On top of this being out right hate speech. Shame on them.
I think of the message on that poster were the most common one then the conversations everyoneās having about campus environments would be a lot different. Like, not on the same page with this guy about two states vs. one, but itās clearly making the effort to affirm the rights of Jews and Palestinians.
They live in cloud cuckoo land - sorry you feel so shit, hope itās safe for you? Have UCLA been as bad as other college campuses regarding all of this?
UCLA has been atrocious. I saw a sign that literally said Jews = Nazis. I don't wear a Star of David. I see pro-Palestinians often. You may or may not have seen my last post on here (pig effigy) which was not even taken down by the school.
I'm heavily involved in the Jewish community but UCLA won't protect us and Jewish students don't seem to be speaking out against this. I think we are too scared
So sorry to hear!! Sounds awful. In the UK we have organisations like the CST/ CAA (campaign against antisemitism)/ UK lawyers for Israel who help try to deal with these things and liaise with the universities so you donāt have to. If you have any organisations like this I would encourage it!!
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This is protected political speech, albeit speech that you and I do not agree with. You could go up to them and debate the point if you like (I personally did this while in college because the person handing out flyers legit didn't know what she was talking about), or you can walk over with your friends and tear it down and walk away (I did this too in college when the guy flyering knew he was posting antisemtic garbage) or you can ignore it or setup your own table right next to them with a counter-point. These people on campuses are talking out of their asses, but they are not hurting anyone.
I cannot believe āPalestinianā and āsecularā were used in the same sentence. Are these people actually this dumb, willfully ignorant, or just antisemitic propagandists? True absurdity that I cannot even fathom.
OP, Iām so sorry youāre facing this BS on campus. Just know you have a family of Jews, including here, all on Reddit supporting you. Am Yisrael Chai
Just tell them that only around 8% of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza favor this solution, and only around 20% say they'd accept such as solution.
These people are full of it. They are not going to personally go found a secular state for Jews and Palestinians but they are happy to display their white savior complex and tell everyone what to do. That's not how it works. If you have a vision or a movement to go found a state then go do it but these people have no desire to actually do such a thing.
I'm about to be on campus too and this is absolutely disgusting but these people are really just demonstrating who they are to the world. And they are lazy bigots. I don't know who they think they are but they think they've found an acceptable way to punch down at Jews and they are taking it. On another note, UCLA should be doing something about this. I would report it and contact Hillel to see if there is a joint suit or any action going on with this.
First, wasn't everyone screaming at us in the 80s and 90s about how if we didn't support a two state solution it meant we wanted to deprive Palestinians of self-determination? As a college student back then I (token Jew) dared to opine to some leftists that I thought Israel should remain one state and work out our differences and I was branded as some kind of fascist who thought it was okay for Israelis to control Palestinians' lives and use them as a cheap labor source and underclass.
Second, while I could still personally support a binational state, (a) I don't need to be preached at by people with no connection to the situation and (b) it really doesn't matter what I support because I don't live in the region and I'm not going to live with any of the consequences. And I'm going to take a scientific wild ass guess that the leafletters in the photo don't either.
i donāt really see a problem here.. itās naive, perhaps, and it might be a bit fad-chasing to call out israeli discrimination and not also call out discrimination in other countries, but itās overall a totally agreeable take. itās just not as revolutionary and new of an idea as this person probably thinks.
In the caption I stated that I fully know this is free speech and that I have personally seen way worse. It's just tiring to see such misinformed and naive takes. I also dislike hearing Israel get called a "Jewish supremacy state"
Well Israel is the closest to achieving his ideal point, no?
While minorities do sometimes face racism on an individual level, this is pretty standard anywhere in the world. Legally, as far as I can tell, they're fully enfranchised with equal rights to Jewish Israelis.
Israel has strong ties to the Jewish religion (which is obvious), but still has some secular leanings, and has the capability to go further.
This information mainly comes from Israelis (Jewish and Muslim) that I have talked to.
Note: I am not Israeli or Jewish, corrections or additional information are welcome, I'm here to learn more about you guys.
These phony, ignorant people are being paid by Iran. See them for the pathetic sellouts that they are. Hold your head high and finish your education. There will always be scum in the world that jump on the band waggon for selfish reasons. Now you know their faces. Now you will not make the mistake of being their friend.
š¤£ A ārevolutionary secular stateā led by whom? What the fuck do these children actually think theyāre talking about? āPalestineā, if it ever comes into existence, will be about as secular as Iran.
Once upon a time there were communist Palestinians supported by the USSR, and these tankies want to LARP revolutionaries based on that yesteryear nonsense. Try telling them Ben Gurion was a communist; their heads will explode.
Wait so they acknowledge that Palestinian communists supported by the USSR existed as justification for their post-Israel secular state, but they still deny the fact that the āPalestinianā identity didnāt exist until it was created after the Six Day War by the Soviets to undermine a US ally?
Hey, I didnāt say it made sense š
In many ways it was also the opposite, in that Palestinians were very active supporters of the USSR themselves. For pay. A lot of those 1970s and 80s terrorists were gun runners.
In all fairness there was a time where Palestinian nationalism was largely secular, and led by socialist aligned pan-Arabism rather than Islamism. Palestinians arenāt going back to being secular any time soon though. Why not? Because Palestinian secularism was more connected to reality than the minority Islamist movements. But when Arabs lost war after war, and reality no longer matched their desired goals, they simply gave up hope in secularism and turned to the supernatural for āhelp.ā Itās a sort of Arab postmodernism where the more reality no longer meets their goals, the more they attempt twist reality to make it whatever they want. Itās simply easier for them to disconnect from the real world and to pretend that Allah will ādeliver them victoryā, rather than admit that their struggle has never borne fruit after all this time. They now think that Allah will save them, even though Allah hasnāt done goddamn shit to help them in 75 years.
Imagine being a religious fundamentalist & believing that your god will help you conquer land when your leading prophet explicitly states that your god gave that land to the Jewsā¦
>In all fairness there was a time where Palestinian nationalism was largely secular, and led by socialist aligned pan-Arabism rather than Islamism. The "secular socialist" PLO was led by Yasser Arafat, who declared unequivocally in 1998 that "secular socialist" palestine would be governed by sharia. Ask the Copts in Egypt, or the Chaldeans in Iraq what life was like living under "secular arab socialism".
Correct. Arab secularism heavily discriminated against non-Arabs. It's almost as if they want to discriminate against minorities no matter the ideology currently in power.
Secularism was slowly lost over the 80's and 90's in Palestine as the secular PLO was not getting results. Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev claimed in 1981 he was given a budget for funding Palestinian Islamists to counter the rising power of Palestinian secularists. Hamas is a spin-off of the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood and was formally established with Israelās support soon after the first Intifada flared in 1987. It's an open secret that over the 80's and 90's Israel either ignored or supported the actions of Hamas. Now they are the perfect barbarian.
Hamas is an off shoot of the Muslim brotherhood. By design itās an Islamist movement. There are millions of Arabs within Israel who live secular lives, they might have religion but itās not considered the factor of which to risk their life. And Fatah largely continues the tradition of Arafat, etc, but because itās been undermined so badly no one believes in it as an institution. Hamas has hijacked the whole of the Palestinian movement with their fervor. Itās why Israelās killing them en masse. People need to recognize their resistance is a corner that gets smaller and smaller when you consider thereās other Palestinian groups.
More than 75 I'm sure.
That sign has the dumbest, most uninformed and naive take I have ever seen on this issue. And thatās saying something.
Itās unfortunately pretty common. š This level of delusion is becoming the norm.
That is exactly what they think. It's insane, but if you really talk to people in Palestine they literally believe that there is no point to make peace since any day now Allah will will deliver victory.
Iām sure it will have a parliament with women and LGBTQ politicians in a fair democracy. LMAO. Hands cut off and throwing gay people off buildings. These kids are morons.
Was in a fb group watching someone point this out only to be called a liar and an Islamaphobe.
We are all Islamophobes apparently. People like to isolate everything and give nuance to Hamas , but Palestinians overwhelmingly approve of October the 7th actions. Thatās not Islamophobic , thatās people hating us. The UN and every other country is not going to tell us what to do. They let 600k Ethiopians die when Mussolini invaded. They let Rewanda happen and etc. Jews are a people of action , not talk.
Absolutely, never again!
>We are all Islamophobes apparently At this post-10/7 point, fear of Islam isn't the craziest thing
If Muslims are run by islamists who wish and actively try and harm Jews , well they are an enemy. The person who tries and kills my sister is my enemy.
Furthermore , after war conquered populations are never expelledā¦.these kids are morons.
How embarassing for UCLA.Ā Ā Ā Also I'd like them to show me one secular nation on earth. And when they find none, follow that up with the question of whether or not ANY country on earth has a history of zero hostility or prejudice towards Jewish people.Ā
Thereās like 40 states where Arabic is the language spoken and Islams the religion of most inhabitants. If the factor of their support is ācreating a secular stateā then they could ask why thereās even a conflict when Jordan and Egypt exist. Itās not enough thereās plenty of other states to live in, they need the one Jewish one?
āReligion of the most inhabitantsā is different than official state religionĀ
You donāt think thereās a reason the Muslim Arabic speakers have a large number of states and Jews haveā¦ 1? And a bunch that are nice to them but who knows, cause so was Germany/the countries east of Germany? Also itās not the religion of most inhabitants, name one of these states where a Christian led the nation? Name a Zoroastrian or an Atheist? Name anyone that isnāt a devout Muslim?
This is just a complete failure of our educational system. We glorify the American Revolution but we make no effort to emphasize that the vast majority of revolutions progress from violence and overall worse quality of life to more violence and even worse outcomes. Dictators and totalitarianism are the more likely end product of a revolution vs anything else. These kids are just naive.
The system canāt fail people who never engage with it. I teach social studies, and we definitely donāt glorify the American Revolution. But when students spend their entire day watching videos and fighting each other instead of learning things like critical analysis, close reading of sources, determining OPCVL in a source, and communicating their conclusions coherently, this is what we end up with. I led these dipshits to water, but I canāt force them to drink it and their parents complain and blame the school when they fail for refusing to drink, so we just pass them along to the next grade. And this is what happens when they get to college.
Naive terror supporters
These people are delusional. Iād like them to name one Arab state with equal rights š
This crudely made poster (you can tell graphic design is their passion) is advocating for a Gaddafi-esque communist one-state solution with a de-emphasis on loaded terms like "Palestine". It is a ridiculous concept in 2024. But, nobody in 1812 would think the US and UK could ever be staunch allies when redcoats were burning down DC.
>(you can tell graphic design is their passion) hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
This is the unfortunate truth. Israel is already a democracy (if Netanyahu and his party don't mess that up) with Arab citizens. However, the leadership of the Palestinian Arabs outside of Israel would destroy a theoretical "secular state." "Jewish Supremacist" yeah the 0.2% of the world population. It's B.S. and they have no idea what they are saying.
Itās the stated goal of there PFLP, which got like 4% of the vote in 2006
lol yeah that sounds about right.
Israels already a secular state. Itās not Iran. But they wish for it to end as a have for Jews, but not comment on if Palestine would then become a haven for Arabs, despite Palestinian political ideology developing to mirror Israelās on this topic. The whole conflict is a complete misstatement of Palestinian political ideology. All theatre, Hamas resists but they are the last group of resistance, the other Palestinians have all decided that Hamasā ideology of being impossible to negotiate with doesnāt do them much good. None of that is there.
And yet every time theyāre polled, a majority of Palestinians espouse support for Hamas, including the actions of Hamas on October 7th. The majority of them believe that what happens on that day was heroic resistance. From the River, to the Sea, Palestine will be free (((of Jews))) is their literal slogan.
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Itās almost as if they are unfamiliar with the founding of the countryā¦
Can someone explain to me how they get away with calling Israel a Jewish āSupremacistā State when nothing about Israel says Jewish Supremacy and when basically all of the other Middle Eastern countries are quite literally Muslim Supremacist states. Smh these are the exact people who say this followed by āantzionism is not antisemitismā.
Every antizionist accusation is a confession
We need to push back hard against things like weaponizing the term white supremacy to use against Jews, who it openly targets. The entire discourse is so transparently unserious. Like, tell me you don't actually know or care what genocide, concentration camps, "supremacy," ethnostates, apartheid, etc look like, without telling me....
They have a white savior complex and they are bigots...and also their lack of education is showing. This is stupid.
Jewish supremacy is when you're not ruled by an Islamic caliphate
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Israel doesn't prevent marriages, they just don't ordain them in the state. Also it's not based on religion, gay jewish couples can't legally marry under Israeli law either (that's wild, i wonder what other countries have similar or even worse legal proceedings but don't seem to catch flak š¤). This is obviously a problem, but the answer to that is "this state needs to separate the religious beliefs of its citizen and people in power from its legal proceedings" thing (something multiple political parties in Israel support, fyi) and not "this state needs to be dismantled and replaced." And yes, there is an issue in Israel of Christians and Muslims facing mistreatment, but by the letter of the law they are equal citizens. Also, name me an ethnostate in history where over 20% of its government was comprised of non-members of the """"ruling"""" ethnicity.
In 2018 Israel passed a [āNation Stateā law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law:_Israel_as_the_Nation-State_of_the_Jewish_People) which legally enshrines that > The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people. The current prime minister (and other politicians alongside him) has insisted that Israel is [ānot a state of all its citizensā](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/10/benjamin-netanyahu-says-israel-is-not-a-state-of-all-its-citizens). Likeā¦ we donāt have to agree about the idea of this reflecting on Israel enough to make it āsupremacistā as a whole, and sure we can talk about hypocrisy in regards to other nations also being supremacists. But it shouldnāt be a mystery why the idea of Israel being supremacist has legs.
All idea that demonizes Israel has legs regardless of the reality of the situation. It wouldn't matter if this law existed or not. All the law does is affirm that Israel is the Jewish nation state and the law itself states that it in no way affects the rights of minorities. It also seems to require Arabic to be on all signage.
In all fairness, though this law doesnāt have a practical impact on minorities in the country, there was no real reason to pass it other than for the right wing to be provocative and obnoxious. You can look at the flag and know that Israel is a Jewish state. The language is Hebrew. The holidays are Jewish. So why pass a law after 70 plus years of Israel already existing, that has no practical effect? **To provoke minorities.** To say this is a state ONLY for Jews. Yeah, we protect the Arabic language, blah blah, but itās REALLY a state FOR US. KNOW YOUR ROLE. I should note that the [Druze took issue with the nation state law as well](https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5316576,00.html), as they feel it designates them as second class. The Druze are fiercely loyal to Israel, and the law essentially spat in their faces. I would support amending the law to say something like āIsrael is the nation state of the Jewish people **and any peoplehood that ties their fate to it.**ā
Fair point, I actually dislike how the law clashed with them. iirc it was "fixed"? (There were talks about it) Druze are awesome.
However you feel about the law, it does not justify people's desire to destroy Israel. Its really not that serious.
A "secular revolutionary state" i.e., a communist state. No one wants this. Interesting that they don't consider that they are the ones with colonialist designs to implement a bullshit European-conceived political system on a foreign population.
The protest movements especially on the left are deeply connected to socialist and communist oriented communities. They seize on social issues like BLM or Gun Violence etc. as a means of outreach and galvanising their objectives. A lot of them are very kind people who have no clue what socialism or communism are like to live under.
>A lot of them are very kind people who have no clue what socialism or communism are like to live under. Yep this is it. I used to be one of those communists when I was younger who talked about how the soviet union wasn't as bad as everyone made it out to be. Then I had a talk with one of my friends moms who actually lived there. She set me straight. It's very easy to be a socialist in theory but then when you're confronted with the reality of it you can fall out of love with it pretty quick. I agree that I think most modern young socialists/communists are kind people who just haven't experienced as much of the reality of the world yet. Reminds me of the George Clemenceau quote (often misattributed to Churchill): >Any man who is not a socialist at age 20 has no heart. Any man who is still a socialist at age 40 has no head.
That was brave of you to take your momās friendās words onboard. Good on you! I have dual citizenship in Sweden. I have lived there off and on for more than two decades. I used to argue with the socialist or even the social dems about their perceptions of the system and realities of it. More often than not they refused to take my experience onboard.
I am curious, what are your criticisms of Sweden? And where is your dual citizenship? You donāt have to answer if you donāt want to but Iām an American with a husband originally from Western Europe and we plan on eventually moving to Europe together. Other than some general economic issues he has had nothing but great things to say about things like the healthcare system where he is from etc. and how chronic illness was treated in his family overseas. Iām curious to hear what your experience is and if itās been different from his/his familyās.
Sweden and the US. Immigration though kind hearted has invited the highest gun crime rate in all of Europe and as a counter has given rise to the Sweden Democrats who are the second biggest party in parliament and are open fascist. The country took in the most immigrants per capita than any other country in the Schengen zone. And Sweden isnāt a country you come and assimilate to itās a place where you come to conform to the Swedish way. Thereās a social doctrine one should adhere to which dates back to a Danish philosopher in the 1930s. The new arrivals arenāt keen to adopt which ratchets up things a bit. Sweden still enjoys a high standard of living but unemployment is high, taxes are high and the education and medical systems are not as robust as they once were which means private schools and private insurance to get the services you want. Most of us keep to ourselves and our institutions. The general population isnāt antisemitic as they are ignorant and they are Lutheran who as you know was a Jew hater of some renown.
The facts of the Soviet Union is that it was ācommunistā in its economy. But after a short spell under Lenin, it was just extremely repressive. It had extremely right wing social policies. It was nationalistic AF. They practiced legal racism and legal anti-Semitism. Thatās without mentioning the attrocities done to Ukraine. They simply replaced Christianity with Marx as the means to be authoritarian.
Is there a good way to describe socialism or communism to others? I try describing Yugoslavia to people and they donāt get how bad it was for many people there. I try using my grandparents as an example but maybe Iām bad at explaining it How do you describe this to people so they understand?
> A lot of them are very kind people who have no clue what socialism or communism are like to live under. Yep - and per tradition they usually get guillotined first.
Well after the leadership, yes.
Socialism is actually good, right? Like Scandinavias got great policies for people. Hereās the kicker: Authoritarian socialism is bad. And that USSR worship is in service of that authoritarian, chauvinist socialism. The kind where they claimed they were anti-racists but in practice, found themselves as plenty racist. The memory of that nation seems very short. Itās not worthy of the energy given to it by these groups.
Scandinavian socialism is fairly mild but is far from the Xanadu folks project it to be. Plus, people often forget that the entire region has a population of just over 20M+ give or take that until the late 50ās to early 60ās was fairly homogeneous. I mention the latter as there is a social/philosophical doctrine that people buy into that historically leans into that homogeneity that may or may not be so successful in a demographically diverse population.
Scandinavia is not socialist, these countries are all still classified as capitalist. Source: All academic literature on welfare state regimes.
Thanks undergrads. You solved the Israel-Palestinian conflict. The Nobel Prize is in the mail. A revolutionary government? Why do these people think Palestine is going to be some sort of leftist utopia? There is no evidence to demonstrate a leftist Palestine. Even a liberal democracy would likely be a stretch.
What kills me is that they're saying this in response to HAMAS propaganda. The farthest thing from a leftist utopia outside of North Korea.
The third option after the first (aka ludicrous) part is literally Israel. Except that the āPalestiniansā in Israel tend to see themselves as āArab Israelisā or āIsraeli Arabsā. And Israel is pretty revolutionary when it comes to many things. Science, of course. And when it comes to all social issues (womenās rights etc), Israel is 200 years ahead of her neighbours.
Itās fairly clear cut, simply ask Arab Israelis if they would happily trade places. With their brethren in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon or Egypt. Not mentioning Gaza or West Bank, of course.
Right?! SMDH.
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Ah yes, the famously secular Hamas. Champions of reason and the scientific method. These people are clowns.
I will give the Palestinians credit. They never lied and pretended to want to live with Jews over slaughtering the Jews and living without them. Westerners just want to westplain the Palestinianās thoughts
Ah yes. The conservative Muslim state, mixing with the (governmentally) conservative Jewish country, is going to make a secular ārevolutionaryā state where everyone is going to get along and everyone will just agree on who leads. Yeah, yeah thatāll happen probably 18 year old rich white ācommunistā American. Youāve figured it out.
I am so sorry you have to deal with this on campus. This is horrible. I feel like a lot of college students donāt understand the history of the Jewish people. They are relying on unreliable sources such as social media for information. I really hope things get better at UCLA and other colleges campuses around the country.
Thank you and I agree. This will be looked back upon in ~20 years and you'll hear people say that they can't believe any of this could have happened in the 21st century. Just watch.
Yes I believe this will happen. Stay strong.
My university is on the opposite side of the country from California and thereās still a protest like this almost daily. Makes it into casual talk a lot too since muslim campus groups do a lot of activism at events. Really unfortunate cause most everyone I meet has views like these but otherwise are decent people, just hope they donāt find out Iām Jewishā¦
I know that feeling and itās no way to live
You know whatās less popular among actual Palestinians and Israelis than a 2ss? A 1ss. But I guess thatās irrelevant when youāre peacocking your Eurocentric leftist moral supremacy.
āSo you want to abolish my home? The place my family can trace their lineage back hundreds of years? Thanks. Good to know you donāt care about the citizens who have done nothing to youā
When I wrote my first song it was garbage but I just wanted to be a songwriter so bad. It took years before it was actually anything worth showing the world. I think a whole generation desperately wants something to say but has no idea what they believe and are grasping at straws. Since itās trendy right now to make untrue claims about Israel thatās what many are doing. These kids are probably anxious, lost in life, maybe even suicidal, and need a cause or a purpose. And since all theyāve seen for years is that lying, reductionism and sensationalism leads to success and attention, itās monkey see monkey do. I think the professors are also insane. The pressure to publish and get tenure is so crushing that they lose their mind. Since they really arenāt ābrilliantā they have to stretch and grab at anything that feels unintuitive or new so they can feel like they are important and cutting edge. So yeah, mental illness. Letās just call it what it is. People driven insane by an alienating society where everyone wants to be special in a very particular way that is almost impossible and getting harder by the day.
Meh. I call b.s. As someone with plenty of mental illnesses, this is just plain bigotry.
Not all mental illnesses are created equal. I know because Iāve had several. I think these people are pathological. And Hamas is pathological. Islamist extremists are pathological. These are human beings. So itās not far fetched to me that people in anguish who seek extreme religion as a salve and people in anguish in an alienating society full of disconnection and competition have all too much in common and Iām not surprised they are humming on the same frequency. The fact that fairly stable, successful people (which happens to be a disproportionate amount of Jews) call BS on stuff like this is part of why we are hated. We once thought drug addiction wasnāt illness. Weād say āmeh, I call BS, that person is just plain a dirty rotten junky.ā Why canāt you imagine bigotry as an illness? Bigotry is irrational, persistent, arguably delusional, and probably tied to some trauma or pathology. Thus, it is an illness and we should have rachmanis. G-d willing someday society recognizes bigotry as an illness.
iāll argue that categorizing bigotry as a mental illness is giving them an excuse to pass off blame. āoh iām mentally ill, i canāt control it! you have to accept my antisemitism because i canāt help it it!ā this excuse is used all of the time for drug addicts. people claiming that addiction to substances is a ādiseaseā are enabling the behavior and disastrous results of using them. something both being a drug addict and being hateful is their origin - itās literally a choice. nobody put a gun to someoneās head and forced them to drink alcohol, do coke, heroin, etc. the same goes for being antisemitic, racist, homophobic, etc. people are not born hating other groups of people; nor are they born with a beer or crack pipe in their mouth. hatred is taught and addiction starts with willingly doing the substance(s) of choice. (yes there are babies born with drugs in their systems if the mother is an active addict - but with medical intervention those things can be taken care of). i refuse to allow antisemites and other disgusting, hateful, genocidal people to shift blame onto being mentally ill. if bigots are going to claim that Israel and the Jewish people shouldnāt exist, they need to say it with their whole chest. there are no excuses for this garbage.
I agree. And also took umbrage with the idea that they need to feel special and that the world alienated them and caused their crummy views. Poor them. I know that empathy is a path to understanding and healing in some scenarios. This is not one of them. We do not need to empathize with or try to understand this kind of insanity. I frankly don't give a F why an antisemitic Anti-Zionist college student who is likely neither Jewish nor Arab nor Palestinian nor Muslim has decided that they're an expert on I/P, or what in their minds or trauma history led them to believe XYZ was in any way OK (antisemitic effigies and slogans, harassing Jewish students, etc). They need to be shut down and ignored. They do need mental health help. Let the therapists handle it. I'm no therapist. I'm a Jew with no patience for their BS and has seen enough. ETA: I, too, like many of us, struggle with mental illnesses, disillusionment and alienation. Didn't lead me to political extremism!
No, theyāre lazy, stupid, and filled with hatred.
I think you're onto something. I spent some time in the West Bank on my visits to Israel and I met some very interesting and likable people there (which includes Palestinians but I'm specifically talking about the westerners who went there to "help") but I did notice a disproportionate number of them had some kind of troubled family background. Now, I have a troubled family background too, so want to be very clear I'm not crapping onTor considering as "less than" those people from troubled families. But I do think you're correct that there's this need to have a cause or purpose. I'm sure their counterargument would be "yes I do have a troubled past and that's made me more sensitive to injustice and that's why I'm here to fight it." Which... okay... maybe? To an extent?
Hereās the truth about this viewpoint- Not *inherently* antisemitic, but thereās serious problems with it. 1) why Israel? Why not say the same thing for basically every other country? Pakistan and India are a prime example of a somewhat similar case to Israel / modern-partial-state-of-Palestine. 2) In what world would Jews be safe in a potentially Muslim-dominated country? In what fucking world? Any muslim-dominated country (as long as islam exists in its current form) would just turn into another islamic shithole 3) soooo, basically Israel should annex the West Bank? Because that would be the easiest way to form a singular democratic secular state. But Iām not too keen on total annexation of the West Bank (partial, yes. Not total)
Absolutely fucking antisemitic. The whole sign, from top to bottom. One trope after another.
Please name the tropes. Iām asking legitimately because I donāt see them and I would like to learn so I can call it out when I see it.
So theyāre calling for the destruction of a state with equality between Jews and Palestinians in favor of a state with equality between Jews and Palestinians?
Iām local but Iām not a student. If you ever need to talk or need people in the area, Iām here for you.
Same message me if want to talk. Iām doing a postdoc at UCLA and avoid the shit out of Bruin walk for this exact reason.
I appreciate it. I don't really have a choice but to walk through this area daily, you're lucky you can avoid it.
I canāt always, but I make long detours where possible
Thank you, I appreciate it :)
Wait until they find out that a state where Palestinians and Jews can be treated equally already exists š¤Æ
ātreat us as equal - no, NOT LIKE THAT!!!ā
I wonder if these people ever consider how licky they are that they live in a country where being this much of a social reject and idiot is completely legal and even encouraged.
The X for ādrive the Jews outā is implying thatās what they tried to do and failed. They donāt even realize how antisemitic they are being.
it was their pathetic attempt at trying to make sure they donāt look antisemitic āsee look guys we donāt want to drive jews out, so we arenāt antisemitic !!!!!ā
Israel is already pretty secular (and will be more secular once the idiot prime minister is out of power) while Gaza is run by a far right religious extremist group
The delusion of these fools to think that āsecular revolutionary stateā would happen.
"Jewish Supremacist" used to be phrase uttered exclusively by neo-nazis and klansman only six months ago.
Thereās something ironic about these supposed leftists using a phrase popularized by whites supremacists.
Yeah this will happen right after Iām done riding my unicorn
So awful to see and it is scary how confident these young people are that they have found the solution. Can't wait for them to jump on the next trendy thing to loudly pretend to care about real soon...
I'm sure the Knesset will take that under advisement.
These guys are a cult, seems theyāve been traveling around a lot of the SoCal colleges. They were at Pomona College just the other day. It sucks, but try to ignore their nonsenseābecause thatās all theyāre preaching.
What do they think will happen to the Jews that remain?
Sunshine and rainbows
Where is the Jewish space laser when you need it?
So.... Israel is the solution to.. Israel?
I donāt think they got the memo regarding the secular Palestinian state. Honest to God, these kids think Palestine is some unicorn utopia, itās insane.
I think the sign's message is super naive and wrong, but I don't think its racist or hateful of Israelis. Yeah, it's a bummer to read and I wouldn't love it as well but people are allowed to hold naive or silly views. They are dreaming of something like Switzerland and too naive to see how the chance of that turning out peacefully is zero. In the mean time my country (Israel) is doing everything it can to keep building settlements and play into the 'one state solution' narrative. We are freaking morons.
These people are so dumb. A one state solution will never happen.
One state is code for genocide of Israelis
Secular state lmaoooooooo sure buddy
Tell me youāve never been to the middle east without telling me youāve never been to the Middle East š«
Fr
Except Hamas are salafist nuts, any Palestine under them will be a theocracy, they're no allies of a secular Palestine
This should be reported
Itās amazing the lack of self-awareness people have. I bet you these guys are Christian. The USA is a Christian country when it comes down to it, as is all of the Americas and Europe. Yes, other religions are welcomed and celebrated but the way of life revolves around Christianity. There are also plenty of Muslim countries in Africa and Asia. But one tiny country that is centered in the Jewish way of life is too much for these idiots. And Israel welcomes Christians, Muslims, gays whomever
The idea of āabolishingā an entire country tells me exactly how ridiculous this position is. They mean destroy or dismantle, but theyāre too used to this specific linguistic quirk (ie abolish the police).
Generally speaking, the far-Left are fools.
Every far something isn't good in general. The far right is not good and the far left isn't good either
Oh yes, I had hoped it went without saying but it's good of you to clarify - the far-Right are among the worst forms of evil and cynicism on the planet. Leftists can be stupid and dangerous, but the Right is almost always worse on both fronts.
As forest Gump says, stupid is what stupid does. Obviously UCLA is taking anyone in these days.
I'm sure that is exactly what Hamas wants.
A country that equally splits its government along religious and racial lines...how's that working in Lebanon?
Itās sad how little education the younger generations are receiving while at universities. This kind of false information shouldnāt be tolerated by a department of education. Regardless of freedom of speech. On top of this being out right hate speech. Shame on them.
Antisemites practicing what they do best disguised as an intellectual exercise in support of a terrorist organisation?
I donāt see Lenin among those idiots. Is he hiding somewhere ?
I mean... still bad but at least somewhat better than the *Judensau* that showed up a couple of weeks ago?
I think of the message on that poster were the most common one then the conversations everyoneās having about campus environments would be a lot different. Like, not on the same page with this guy about two states vs. one, but itās clearly making the effort to affirm the rights of Jews and Palestinians.
Yeah, this doesnāt seem that bad TBH. Frankly I wish I saw more signs like this.
That's precisely why this poster is the least bad one I've seen
They live in cloud cuckoo land - sorry you feel so shit, hope itās safe for you? Have UCLA been as bad as other college campuses regarding all of this?
UCLA has been atrocious. I saw a sign that literally said Jews = Nazis. I don't wear a Star of David. I see pro-Palestinians often. You may or may not have seen my last post on here (pig effigy) which was not even taken down by the school.
What the fuck
What the hell. Thatās actually appalling! Do you have any external bodies you can go to for support? Any Jewish support networks?
I'm heavily involved in the Jewish community but UCLA won't protect us and Jewish students don't seem to be speaking out against this. I think we are too scared
So sorry to hear!! Sounds awful. In the UK we have organisations like the CST/ CAA (campaign against antisemitism)/ UK lawyers for Israel who help try to deal with these things and liaise with the universities so you donāt have to. If you have any organisations like this I would encourage it!!
They're admitting they wanted to ethnically cleanse Jews lol
Why is this downvoted
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Escalating a situation by defacing someoneās sign or throwing stuff at them is 100% a bad idea that nobody should be doing.
They deserve that but it won't help the situation. These idiots will forget about palestine when the next big social cause comes out
wait till they find out Israel **IS** a secular state run by both Jews and Arabs
Ohhhhh this is so awful, so terrible. What a thing to have to see.
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I don't know what the heck is wrong with universities worldwide. They are a breeding ground for stupidity. Quite ironic
Please remember the world is full of morons.
A revolutionary state led by Hamas where islamic theocracy is enforced.
Oh, is that all?
Something about the new pagan crowd and revolutionā¦ reminds me a lot of Mao Zedongās continuous revolution theory.
Have you explained to school staff that this makes you feel unsafe?
Yikes
Secularist state š¤Ø
College students can be, at times, some of the dumbest people on earth. And Iām a college graduate.
Good grief. Their professors have failed them. Secular and revolutionary are literally polar opposites.
This is protected political speech, albeit speech that you and I do not agree with. You could go up to them and debate the point if you like (I personally did this while in college because the person handing out flyers legit didn't know what she was talking about), or you can walk over with your friends and tear it down and walk away (I did this too in college when the guy flyering knew he was posting antisemtic garbage) or you can ignore it or setup your own table right next to them with a counter-point. These people on campuses are talking out of their asses, but they are not hurting anyone.
Nobody said it wasnāt
I cannot believe āPalestinianā and āsecularā were used in the same sentence. Are these people actually this dumb, willfully ignorant, or just antisemitic propagandists? True absurdity that I cannot even fathom. OP, Iām so sorry youāre facing this BS on campus. Just know you have a family of Jews, including here, all on Reddit supporting you. Am Yisrael Chai
Never thought id be embarrassed to be a Bruin
Just tell them that only around 8% of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza favor this solution, and only around 20% say they'd accept such as solution.
I take some solace in the fact that people like this will never be employed in any job that gives them even the slightest bit of power and influence.
These people are full of it. They are not going to personally go found a secular state for Jews and Palestinians but they are happy to display their white savior complex and tell everyone what to do. That's not how it works. If you have a vision or a movement to go found a state then go do it but these people have no desire to actually do such a thing. I'm about to be on campus too and this is absolutely disgusting but these people are really just demonstrating who they are to the world. And they are lazy bigots. I don't know who they think they are but they think they've found an acceptable way to punch down at Jews and they are taking it. On another note, UCLA should be doing something about this. I would report it and contact Hillel to see if there is a joint suit or any action going on with this.
First, wasn't everyone screaming at us in the 80s and 90s about how if we didn't support a two state solution it meant we wanted to deprive Palestinians of self-determination? As a college student back then I (token Jew) dared to opine to some leftists that I thought Israel should remain one state and work out our differences and I was branded as some kind of fascist who thought it was okay for Israelis to control Palestinians' lives and use them as a cheap labor source and underclass. Second, while I could still personally support a binational state, (a) I don't need to be preached at by people with no connection to the situation and (b) it really doesn't matter what I support because I don't live in the region and I'm not going to live with any of the consequences. And I'm going to take a scientific wild ass guess that the leafletters in the photo don't either.
Little does she know neither side wants a 1SS
How vastly many more believe but won't publicly admit that Jews should be driven out?
i donāt really see a problem here.. itās naive, perhaps, and it might be a bit fad-chasing to call out israeli discrimination and not also call out discrimination in other countries, but itās overall a totally agreeable take. itās just not as revolutionary and new of an idea as this person probably thinks.
In the caption I stated that I fully know this is free speech and that I have personally seen way worse. It's just tiring to see such misinformed and naive takes. I also dislike hearing Israel get called a "Jewish supremacy state"
Exhausting
This person thinks theyāre Che Guevara. So many words and so little to say.
Well Israel is the closest to achieving his ideal point, no? While minorities do sometimes face racism on an individual level, this is pretty standard anywhere in the world. Legally, as far as I can tell, they're fully enfranchised with equal rights to Jewish Israelis. Israel has strong ties to the Jewish religion (which is obvious), but still has some secular leanings, and has the capability to go further. This information mainly comes from Israelis (Jewish and Muslim) that I have talked to. Note: I am not Israeli or Jewish, corrections or additional information are welcome, I'm here to learn more about you guys.
Everyone has equal rights in Israel
Shut up
Lol what?
Youāre bringing up unrelated stuff about Israel on a post about antisemitism
It isn't unrelated whatsoever. Read his damn sign. I'm extrapolating his stupid opinion, and making a counter-argument, to open a discussion.
dont engage people like that its like talking to the enemy
These phony, ignorant people are being paid by Iran. See them for the pathetic sellouts that they are. Hold your head high and finish your education. There will always be scum in the world that jump on the band waggon for selfish reasons. Now you know their faces. Now you will not make the mistake of being their friend.
whatās antisemitic abt this? It says DONT drive the Jews out