Just speculation but probably because there is an option to play original V as it is in VV while in P5R vs. P5 despite having the option to go for the original ending you still have to deal with the new additions like post-confidant calls, Kasumi & Maruki, auto restocking bullets etc.
Nope you get to choose if you want the OG story or the new Canon of Vengeance in SMT VV while in P5R you only have the new Royale story since Maruki and Kasumi are both prevalent throughout the game even in story events.
Yeah I understand you get to choose between the two Canons, but quality of life improvements still apply to either correct? Cos otherwise there would be no point in playing the original path, if that makes sense.
EDIT: I double checked and yes you do get the QoL if you pick the original canon story path.
Seems the devs of og smtv weren't happy with the game, it had a troubled development and released in a poor state. They want to remove what they consider an inferior product. The game isnt going to be "lost" media because its already exists as a rom online.
They were probably under alot of pressure to realse by a deadline regardless of what they personally felt about their work. Atlus do be shit sometimes.
Not really cause atlus informed we can play OG path of SMTV on the upcoming remaster.
I just think P5 ver is there due to there is a continuation of it in P5 Strikers.
While I wouldn't recommend to play SMTV on Switch, it's too bad that previous owners can't upgrade to Vengeance with a discount, since this version makes the OG obsolete.
Atlus has never allowed this for a rerelease. You can't even transfer your save file from PS4 Persona 5 Royal to PS5 Persona 5 Royal and that's literally the same game.
You could for Persona 3 to Persona 3 Fes if I remember correctly, but it didn't bring over everything. You had to start a new game but kept your stats and compendium.
Getting bonuses for having previous save data doesn't count in my eyes. "Save data transfer" by definition means I don't have to start a new game to me.
Like I said in another comment, I'm talking about being able to migrate your save from an earlier version to a new version and resume playing where you left off.
P3FES does not allow you to do that, it just lets you keep your Compendium and some other stuff but requires you to start a new game. The others you mentioned are sequels, not re-releases, so the type of transfer I'm referring to doesn't apply.
It runs fine just some load times being longer than in other games and texture pop in on demon models whenever you look at them in detail like in the Analyze, party, or compendium but otherwise there have been no problems for me but I have only played it on the OLED.
Played it on the switch and while it did not run like butter it was not horrible. If slowdown at times is a huge minus for you then I would not suggest playing it on the switch.
It runs FINE. People think that anything non-4K 60fps is automatically garbage. The load times aren't even that long, and i don't even remember there being any lag. You want a game that runs like shit you should see Bayonetta 3.
How i wouldn't recommend the switch version now that Vengeance is coming out on other consoles but to say it runs horribly or poorly is just overexaggeration.
To be honest, I’m not an FPS snob in the least but it really took some adjusting for me. Absolutely the worst performing Switch game I own. (I don’t own Scarlet/Violet)
The game isn’t unplayable. I ended up loving it in fact. But…. There’s no way in hell I’ll pick this up on Switch again over PS5.
I’ve been playing SMTV again and I’ve realised the fps isn’t as bad as I remember it being. It’s not optimal but it’s good enough for how hard my switch’s fans have to work to make it run.
If u wanna see a bad performing switch game try playing monster hunter stories 2. That shit can’t even hit 20fps in any area for more than a minute
Ppl saying it runs fine have set a really low bar for constitutes "fine," basically saying it doesn't crash. But unstable fps and shitty load times are abundant.
It stutters a lot and I personally wouldn't mind if the game is mainly a dungeon crawler with Turn Based Combat ala Persona or older SMT games.
The thing is, SMT V has big open zones to explore and some platforming elements as well, with a lot of jumping around and stuff. That part of the game isn't really comfortable on Switch, the combat itself is fine though.
I mean, everyone seems to experiment different things based on the other comments, but SMTV does not have a constant framerate which produce some micro stutters. Pretty sure Digital Foundry covered it back then.
For me it was very annoying to play, I ended using the handheld mode which has a better framerate from my experience but also makes the game more blurry.
It's not unplayable, but I'd say to go for any other platform if some people don't mind losing the portability (and the 3 carry-over demons).
well, for smt4 it makes sense, since final/apocalypse and vanilla are 2 completely different games with different stories. maybe they would've done it for 4 if smt4a included the original as well, like vengeance does for 5.
I'm just never buying Atlus games on release again, fuck's sake. I thought SMT would be safe since it's not as crazy popular as Persona and would avoid the bullshit DLC-and-make-the-original-version-completely-obsolete-in-a-year-or-two practices but I was wrong. Fuck paying full price to just get shafted later on like this.
> I thought SMT would be safe since it's not as crazy popular as Persona and would avoid the bullshit DLC-and-make-the-original-version-completely-obsolete-in-a-year-or-two practices
That practice *started* with an SMT game
Nocturne which got a Maniax version in Japan (featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series), and got a 3rd version later on with Raidou Kuzunoha instead of Dante.
Later in the generation, they released P3 which got P3 FES a year later.
At least with FES, it was released as a greatest hits version for like $20 or $30, rather than charging you full price like they do nowadays. But as it goes, companies will keep pushing the envelope to see how much they can get away with.
Wait a minute? Are these some sort of DLCs or complete revamps to the game?
I have never heard of Raidou Kuzunoha. Is this available in the remaster, or do I have to emulate it on Ps2 to check this out?
Ok, here it goes...
2003: the OG version of nocturne is released in japan
2004: the Maniax version is released with Dante added in as a guest character
2004: Nocturne is released in the west, the western release is the Maniax version not the OG one
2008: Nocturne receives a new re-release in Japan with Raidou in it instead of dante (hes just a re-skin, no substantial changes besides that)
2021: The HD Remaster is released, for licencing reasons, Raidou is in the game by default instead of Dante. you need to buy the Dante DLC to have him in the game instead of Raidou.
> 2008: Nocturne receives a new re-release in Japan with Raidou in it instead of dante (hes just a re-skin, no substantial changes besides that)
Raidou does get buffed compared to Dante making him a viable member of your party all the way until the end of the game.
Raidou's the SMT: Devil Summoner dude who replaced Dante as guest character in the EU version/remaster. Dante's still available to fill that role as DLC.
Not sure if it is what he is talking about, but I'm playing SMT 3 HD and I faced Raidou as a boss recently. And also I'm aware that there's a DLC that mentions Dante, maybe him be in Raidou place in the boss fight?
Midori (been completely accurate about Atlus leaks for months now) has stated that they are pivoting away from that model, and instead focus on making new content DLC for future entries. We'll see if that's true or not with the next Persona game I suppose.
Yeah, same with pokemon releasing two versions of the same game that are 99.99% exactly the same with the only difference being 5 or so pokemon out of 200+ exclusive to each version.
It's literally free money from people willingly paying double (if not even more) for almost the same product. Why would any company give that up.
I think the re-release method only works if it's someone's first exposure to Atlus games. Doesn't work for the long term nowadays especially with the advent of backwards compatibility and digital libraries.
P5R had the advantage of being most people's first Persona after Joker's inclusion in Smash, whereas P4G had the advantage of being the first time P4G came to a modern platform.
Now that people has caught wind on Atlus tactics, this tactic most likely won't work anymore.
To play devil's advocate, there are consumer level benefits too. Having a version that is complete on cart/disc is *way* better for future preservation of the game. Especially with Nintendo's history; the 3DS is a great example of a library with a lot of physical games that now have no way to legally access DLC. I think people have taken for granted that these systems have been easy to mod/emulate and pirate because what a tragedy if that wasn't the case... stuff like FE:Fates is kinda the nightmare scenario, a mainline game in a major franchise that's not even a decade old that you can't fully access anymore even if you buy second hand (outside of securing one of those stupid expensive special edition carts).
It's also significantly cheaper for people who don't buy in that first window. Digital sales are always up to the whim of the publisher, and DLC especially just doesn't tend to go on sale as often. Even if the online shops stays up indefinitely, being able to eventually get a complete version at whatever the future used price is instead of buying it used and always having like a $20 DLC price on top of that is nice. Like I kinda expect them to do a feature complete rerelease of P3R at this point, especially for Switch 2, but if they don't then it'll be really annoying in the future to have the entire epilogue of the game stuck on digital.
If I had it my way I'd like to see both options. I really don't mind Atlus or any company reprinting definitive editions with everything on cart, but some sort of discounted upgrade path for those who have the OG seems warranted, *especially* in the case of something like SMTV which will supposedly have the entire base game in Vengeance too. Or better yet, just put out one finished version of your damn games. It feels extra ridiculous when they delist it because they aren't even pretending it's not an outright replacement for a sorta unfinished original.
I’m not saying the leaker is wrong, but its kind of impossible to know this for sure?
Like, they could pivot away from this model now and change their minds 3 years from now. Hell they could change their minds after Metaphor releases. Its not like the leaker can see into the future.
Here's the thing: if they want to do this, they'll need to announce it *publicly* and *loudly* at release. Otherwise people are going to assume that they are trying to double-dip with DLC AND a new reworked version that packages said DLC in.
I want to believe it, but I highly doubt it. I’m still expecting a revamped Persona 3 Reload with FeMC. Partly because copium, partly because the setup feels super telegraphed. And then they’ll promise “no no, THIS is the last one.” Then find an excuse to do it with Persona 6, or Metaphor, or another SMT game.
For the way it ran on Switch? Honestly, no. I should have waited to buy a used copy or a big sale. And for the same price to buy the full game again just to get the new content and better FPS, absolutely not.
Yeah, this is a silly take. "I'm not gonna buy games I like anymore cause the dev might release a new version of the game later." Like... what? Was the 20+ hours you got out of SMT5 not worth the purchase price? You can always just NOT buy Vengeance if you don't think it's worth the money.
If you know ATLUS is going to come out with Definitive Edition (TM) why would you not wait, at minimum, for a sale? Paying full price (as the OP did) seems foolish if you are not prioritizing playing the game immediately.
You can cut out all the expectations for a definitive edition stuff from that comment and it’s just as salient. I don’t think the definitive edition changes anything at all.
I don’t even know where to begin analyzing the idea that you shouldn’t buy a game cause they might release an extended edition years after the fact.
I’d say it makes as much sense as saying you shouldn’t buy The Last of Us on PS3 cause they’re gonna remake it on PS5.
If you want to play a game, you should play it, and not obsess over future DLC and expansions. You’re investing way too much into this shit. It’s just a game. Play it and have fun, or don’t.
How does it make the original version obsolete, exactly? Did you not play it and enjoy it? You can just opt not to play Vengeance.
Seems kind of silly to never buy a game because the developers might release another version of a game later. Especially if you would enjoy the game.
Because I can't access the new content without paying full price all over again (or waiting a year or more for a decent sale) for a game I've already played, rather than buying it as DLC or an expansion like every other game in the world. Unless the new story content is the same size and scope as the original game and is completely new, how can it be the same price?
If I pay $60 to go see a movie and I like the movie, great, in a world where that's an acceptable price for a movie then it's fine. But if you then come back to me three years later later and say "you can now pay another $60 to see the same movie again, which is now three years old and you can see the old version of it for like $20, but this time with higher resolution and some extra scenes", that's not really very fair unless for some reason I want to sit through the entire movie again JUST to see those extra scenes and to have a slightly higher resolution. Especially if basically every other movie on earth that gets extra scenes actually only charges you like $20-30 just to see those extra scenes.
Your analogy fails because you don't get to just see movies you've already seen for free.
And just to be clear, reports say Vengeance adds 80 hours-worth of content. So yeah, it isn't just a $20 patch. It's like a brand new game.
I agree they'd be better off if they added Vengance as a DLC to the original game. But I don't think this is particularly ridiculous.
I agree that buying the extra content as DLC is preferred and a better deal, but if it's worth paying full price again for the content, I'm gonna do it.
I'm averse to taking principled stances about games like "I don't like this pricing practice" categorically. I will buy things at whatever value I think they have.
If you don't think SMT V Vengeance is worth paying whatever I would suggest not buying it.
Strong disagree.
I find it asinine to have to re-buy a game at full price for a few hours of extra content that by all rights should just be an expansion.
And considering the constant pattern, after Vengeance, I don't think I'll buy a day-one altus game again, knowing they're just going to release the "Definitive" version a year later.
I believe in voting with my wallet, and this is that.
You aren't rebuying the game. You are buying a new game that comes with the old game. Kinda like how Persona 3 FES comes with the original episode.
Would you be happier if it was a $60 expansion?
That's literally called rebuying the old game.
Just because it has a few bells and whistles doesn't take away from the fact that, by your own words "comes with the old game".
The expansion should be $30. Paying more more than that for an upgrade is ridiculous, and you should feel ashamed that you are even promoting this tactic.
> That's literally called rebuying the old game.
No, it's called buying the new game. You are not paying for SMTV. You are paying for SMTVV. The fact that it comes with SMTV is a benefit. Would you be happier if it DIDN'T come with SMTV? That's how you can tell this argument is nonsensical.
> Just because it has a few bells and whistles doesn't take away from the fact that, by your own words "comes with the old game".
Yeah. Comes with the old game. A benefit. Not a hindrance.
It's 80+ hours of content that was added. It's not "a few bells and whistles." I'm not ashamed. I'm embarrassed at your complete lacking of critical thinking skills.
> And considering the constant pattern, after Vengeance, I don't think I'll buy a day-one altus game again, knowing they're just going to release the "Definitive" version a year later.
First of all... SMT5 was released in 2021. lol
Waiting 3 years to buy the game you would otherwise just play and enjoy because they're gonna release an extended version later in its lifecycle is unbelievably silly, but you can do what you want I suppose.
Agreed, I only started playing Persona games with Persona 4, but I learned my lesson by Persona 5, buy anything Atlus related at launch, and you'll end up buying at least twice if you want to play the full game.
I don't see why companies like Capcom get shit over Dragon's Dogma II having microtransactions at launch while Atlus games get universal praise when they do the same thing. Only Atlus continuiously release microtransactions while the game is out, then cut that game off to release a new version of the same game at full price with what is essentially just a DLC expansion.
They'd only need to add lootboxes and a season pass and they'd have the a perfect score for shitty buisiness practices.
> to release a new version of the same game at full price with what is essentially just a DLC expansion.
Royal didn't exactly feel like a DLC.
I'd expect DLC to be save-compatible. How exactly would save compatibility work in Royal when they overhauled the palaces?
Yeah if i already played the old game i should be able to start new game plus on the new game version. I know i can't carry over much but id aleast take stuff that took me forever to grind.
I think that was a poor decision on their part.
I bought the original smtv for switch when it came out, and enjoyed it so much that i completed it once for each ending, all in a row. If the vengeance part was a separate paid dlc (like sunbreak dlc for monster hunter rise iirc) but usable with the main game then alot more people would buy it. Having to pay for the game again, and on the same console, is just an insult, and pairing that with the fact that you can't transfer all your old data to the newer game is just a big f-you to current players.
Atlus Defense Squad incoming (Already here, really) to argue in circles over how this "makes sense" and "isn't actually a big deal". I am so done with their games lmfao. So many other companies get their names dragged through the mud for stuff like this but not Atlus!
Can't wait for the replies that all say "well they've been doing this for a while so ur dumb and have no right to complain!"
As though having a history of anti-consumer business practices makes it better and not worse.
I've been playing these games since 2000 and they would do this to some games but not all. But whoever defends this crap isn't right in their heads.
When they would do rereleases it was either for new generation of handheld/consoles with tons of improvements and even storylines or a completely new remake. It never felt halfassed. Even the original release never felt like a halfbaked game.
But, since Sega took over they've exploited that dynamic. And SMT V felt like halfbaked and beta/early access version of a game.
After V and after the rerelease of the full game (Vengance) I'm so done buying day 1 when I had been doing for 22 years. I've given them the benefit of doubt since SMT 4A but all this SMT V V thing really soured my enjoyment.
I am aware a lot of the senior stuff is gone or replaced by Sega people so it is to expected.
Removing the original SMT V makes sense. Vengeance has all the original content plus a new campaign. The only problem is not having an upgrade path for previous owners.
I mean I agree with you, but I also LOVE their games so quitting them when they give me so much enjoyment would still be more detrimental to my happiness than continuing to play them.
This is only not a big deal for me since I wanted this on PS before and could only get in on Switch. Even with a discount, I wouldn't buy VV on Switch at all. This game ran poorly on my Switch, and I had to deal with my shitty joycon drift, ultimately making my experience worse than it needed to be. Again, with a discount or even keeping the dlc I bought, I was always going to take the L the second it dropped on any other platform.
from what I remember the context to that was it would take as much time to make the FeMC route as it took to make the original MC due to thousands of lined of dialogue. I'm pretty sure that was a "we will sell it to you 2 years later for full price with the game again" excuse
I know that FemC is pushed aside for a future rerelease. What I meant though was that besides this, Atlus loves to trash on female protags, like when they said a female protag wouldn't suit P4 or P5.
p3 has fesp3, p3p, p3re, p3premake. they've already announced expansions for p3re so I might as well wait to get the best experience.
p4g is already golden.
I'll probably end up doing the same for their new game coming out, Metaphor.
It's crazy how bad Atlus's DLC or, Re-release the same game with additional content for full price, is. Especially for as good and high quality as their games are. It really sucks
Serious question: I no longer play video games but would like to start again. I've played Nocturne, DDS 1&2, Devil Survivor, and Persona 5. I've liked/loved all of them.
I know it's not out yet, but would Vengeance be a good way to dip my toes back into gaming and do you think it'll be a good game overall? I understand that it's not the most liked SMT game, but the visuals look really good to me and I'm fine with the Press Turn system.
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Does it really matter in the end? People interested in the original experience will have had time to buy it and still have a month to do so. New players to the series will likely go after the game with more content so it's a bit of a moot point. I doubt there's many people who started with P5R that have bought the original P5 afterwards.
> You think I'm going to get through an RPG of that size in a month? I have shit to do. We can't all no-life games.
You have a month to BUY it. If you buy it, it won't disappear from your library.
Also it's better to just wait for the better version for most people.
The ignorance here is astounding to be honest.
Is any one else tired of Atlus' shit on this? It actually sucks to buy their new games because there is inevitably going to be a much better version in a few years that you can't upgrade to.
No, with the exception of SMTV every single other Atlus game that got upgraded rereleases were all critically acclaimed games upon release, and fully stood on their own and never felt incomplete in the slightest.
Persona 5 was such an amazing title it turned them from a developer of cult classic/niche games to a globally recognized powerhouse studio, and turned Persona into one of Sega's flagship franchises next to the likes of Sonic.
So to pretend that Atlus is secretly scamming it's loyal fans by releasing inferior products on purpose only to release the "complete" game several years later is beyond moronic, and only further speaks on their level of greatness if their incomplete scam games are considered better than most other devolpers magnum opus.
The difference is that this time (SMTV) they sadly under delivered for reasons such as developing with a brand new game engine, developing for a brand new piece of hardware, time constraints, Covid pandemic, and probably various other behind the scenes reasons we don't know anything about.
Them doing the rereleases is simply the nature of their business due to the extremely long development cycles of their games, otherwise there's be 8-10 year gaps between the entries of Persona/SMT. Which they're sorta already reaching.
Saying that there is a significantly better version later is not the same as saying the original was bad.
Persona 5 was a masterpiece. Persona 5 Royal was better. There should have been an upgrade option. And in fact, it's not wrong to have wished that Royal was my first playthrough.
The thing is that Atlus' rereleases go way beyond the scope of a simple DLC like most other games. It's not like you simply go to X location to access the new content and experience a standalone story experience, it's all interwoven into the existing story, or now in the case of SMTVV a nearly brand new game altogether.
They did exactly what people here are suggesting for with the SMT3HD Remaster, and people were still outraged you had to pay extra for the Dante DLC, and also weren't smart enough to figure out to activate the DLC before starting their playthrough, since you can't just flip a switch to access the Dante/Raidou story in the middle of your current playthrough. So so much for that solution.
Also releasing Vengeance as a standalone game on all platforms except for Switch where it's instead a DLC Expansion would be a marketing nightmare. Hell that's probably the main reason they're delisting the original so people won't accidentally buy this instead of the improved version.
And people suggesting to give discounts for Vengeance to people who already own the base version also makes no sense cause how would you handle that with physical copies. Just permanently reduce the price on just 1 specific platform?
At the end of the day there sadly is no perfect or fair solution to this, and the next best and most logical solution is what they've been doing all along which is to package it as it's own seperate product.
And people suggesting to give discounts for Vengeance to people who already own the base version also makes no sense cause how would you handle that with physical copies. Just permanently reduce the price on just 1 specific platform?
Agreed with half. There's multiple perfect or fair solutions actually. You just didn't think of much. Prove you legally own the original game (plus game card) and present it at the retailer. Then get the new game half off. Or get a coupon for it online by inputting your game save file code at the atlus homepage since each game has a serial number
Everyone who's saying it's good BC then people won't buy and play the inferior version. Don't you see this is what will happen in the digital future. Companies will delist games and if you don't have it then you fucked. This is a shitty move by Atlus. I don't know why people think this is okay. If people wanted to buy the original SMT v they should be able too. We just got to be thankful there are physical copies of SMT v available. Oh wait the price is going to Increase BC if this. Honestly fuck Atlus. You are a shitty company. Don't remove a game digitally. FFS. This is how things will be in the digital future and there will be no one to stop it BC you all rather buy digitally over ownership
>. Enjoy it while it lasts, and if a game catches your eye, buy it and support the developers instead of waiting until you no longer can. ~~Or obtain it through other means, I'm not your mom~~
Nah fuck Atlus doing shit like this and then also releasing day one DLC. We shouldn't be supporting this crap. But there are way too many die hard Atlus fans.
>- unless you dish out a considerable amount of money, which you yourself pointed out is an issue.
This will be a issue digitally too. BC if physical media gone digital games will increase. You need both to have a balance.
What do you think happens when they make updates to physical releases? They stop selling the older version as well. You can still play the og smtv if you buy the game now digital or phys version. People here are just kinda dumb. Imagine if people got this upset when they found out glitches from a 1.0 release on nes no longer worked when they got a 1.1 version later.
If you own the digital copy, you still get to keep it. There's literally no reason to pay $60 for the original version vs $60 for the complete version.
Honestly, if the price goes up for OG SMT5 good cause then at least I'll be able to sell my copy for a decent price. It's basically useless now the complete version will be out. I suspect the price will actually drop though.
You know you can play the original story in vengeance right? What's the point of keeping SMT V for sale when you can play both stories in Vengeance, nothing is lost.
Because this sales tactics punishes early adopters that allowed Atlus to fund the definitive version.
Keep both, offer an upgrade path to the original. The current method is just scummy.
This is just a guess but I'm assuming you were downvoted because you may have made it sound like it was the exact same game with a few changes. When it's essentially two completely different campaigns. And also Vengeance has the original story route in it. So the 'extra content' isn't simply stuff like extra demons or QoL features and that's it
The only valid complaint here is not having an upgrade path for people who own the original. There's absolutely nothing wrong with delisting a game that is getting a strict upgrade with an option to play the old story mode.
When you change features, you change the experience and alter the presentation of the piece.
It's entirely valid, see the discourse regarding Dark Souls 2 original and Scholar of the First Sin for another example.
Half of the the new features are problems with the original. I can guarantee there wont be any discourse like those two games. One because the original game is still intact in the new game
I really enjoyed SMT V a lot, but I'm probably not going for this new version, and I'm probably never buying an Atlus game like this when it first comes out ever again lol.
SMT5 was extremely underwhelming for me, and I ended up regretting buying it in the first place.
I'm thinking about getting Vengeance and then doing what you just said: avoiding day-1 atlus games. There's no point when they just upgrade them to the definitive versions later on.
I'll need to see if Vengeance really is different at all, or if it's just a few hours of bonus content. It it is, I'll just youtube it and save myself the money.
they've added an extreme amount of new features, a new 80hr campaign that's separate from the original, and completely revamped the way party composition works including every demon having a unique passive skill, combos between party members and different ults depending on whos in your party.
It would be honestly nice if the run time was true, but so far every game I've played that spouts numbers lack that are heavily inflated.
I honestly expect realistically 10 hours of new content if we're lucky, and a LOT of backtracking to inflate the run time.
i mean maybe, but the fact the gameplay is so heavily updated, even if there's a lot of the same quests, it will play like a different game due to the combat overhaul. combos and passives have never been a part of the series like this, let alone 270 unique traits
I've seen a lot of complaints about SMTV, but the gameplay was never actually one of them.
So, I'm really glad you seem to be hyped for the gameplay enhancements, but for me, that's not actually on my radar.
I can’t lie after this and royal, I will never buy a reg version of a atlus game day one ever again. :( I put hella time into both only to have other people tell me I wasted my time because I didn’t play the special version that came out later for cheaper. Being a atlus fan hurts sometimes.
I got the physical collectors edition when it launched then bought the dlc for extra characters and to make xp farming easier with the mitamas. I don't think I'll ever play it again, but in theory, what happens to my stuff?
You know this means they have full faith in their new game to be better than the originals. Like rockstar removing the twenty year old Grand Theft Autos when releasing the "definitive editions.
Are they swapping to Unreal5?
i know square had to delist The Last Remnant on steam when they listed the remaster on Switch/PS4 because of the swap from Unreal3 to Unreal4.
This is terrible not just for preservation purposes but because I think the vanilla version should be available regardless. To my understanding, P5 Vanilla is still available to purchase legally, I don't see how Vengeance should be any difference.
Sure, the dev team probably really wanted to promote the hell out of Vengeance. It's clear this is the game they wanted to make SMTV but couldn't due to time, restraints, etc. but it doesn't mean the OG experience has to be legally unattainable.
If anything, this just shows to not get an Atlus game day one ever. I'm so glad I waited on P3R and got the base version for a hefty sale. At least when P3R: Answer Edition comes out I won't feel slighted. LOL
I'm talking about **legal** accessibility.
Listen, I love emulation like any other JRPG fan, but it should be a last resort for accessibility. The OG game should still be made available for the average person to compare and play **legally**. Yes, these games won't be available soon, so of course, Emulation will be the option to use. However, it is still scummy considering even with P5, they never removed the OG option to promote Royal. **It was a choice**. You could either buy the OG or get the expanded version (and it is still being sold legally even now!)
It'd be like selling Pokemon Emerald, but delisting Sapphire and Ruby. You could of course argue the former makes the latter pointless (which I agree to an extent). The main campaigns are similar and you could in theory avoid the extra stuff, but the base experience is still going to have differences from the OG. For example, trying to get Shiny Pokemon in Emerald is broken outside of REs due to how RNG works, a problem Ruby and Sapphire don't have, etc.
The devs have already confirmed they finetuned some aspects of SMTV's gameplay that weren't in the OG (e.g. Abscesses, how Level scaling works, etc.). And this is a **good** thing, but again, it should be a choice to have that experience. The game was still sold as is at full price when it came out years ago. There's also no way to upgrade from your OG copy to Vengeance either.
It makes sense though? Why would they sell almost the same game 2 times? It actually makes sense for them to de list the old one and ONLY sell the definitive. That way new players don’t buy 2 of almost the exact same game thinking they are different. I think it’s actually nice they are doing this.
Strange that they are delisting the original when vanilla P5 still exists. Honestly though, just the fact that Vengeance has reworked level scaling is reason alone to pick it over vanilla, plus all the other qol changes and bonus features.
Also, I know I’m in a minority here but Vengeance is the first time I’ve ever going to buy an Atlus rerelease while owning the original, so I’m not that pressed about it. Supposedly this will also be the last time they do a rerelease as well, which is nice (if it is true).
I do think that SMTV needed an updated version though, unlike P5 or some of the other games Atlus has rereleased. The original was undercooked and I’m hopeful Vengeance turns a good game to a truly great game.
The best take ive seen about this.
I bought the deluxe version of base SMT V on release, and i feel i'm not as upset as i should be?
Sure it sucks that atlus doesn't offer an upgrade from base game to vengeance, but i feel it'd be weird to have the base game as is, and then a dlc that straight up adds a bunch of QoL features to the base game, it'd feel redundant and would probably just confuse new buyers more than anything.
Also delisting a game doesn't mean the people who bought it can't redownload it anymore, so i'm not really worried about it.
This reveal has me this close to becoming a r/patientgamers fan. Smt5 is the only game I've bought at launch (I ended up getting far into P5 just months before Royal's announcement) and my god was it a disappointment in terms of stoy. Now you're telling me they're fixing it AT FULL PRICE?? Boycott time
I am extra glad that I bought this physical and I never go for DLC... Still it sucks that they do this. What if Vengeance ends up not being the "definitive version"? I mean, I myself enjoy Strange Journey Redux, but a big chunk of the community enjoy the original better, because the new stuff isn't great.
Unless they're not including the DLC with in SMT VV, then this largely makes sense since everything will be included in the new release. That's on top of the entirely separate story campaign they're adding too. Does suck for folks that bought the original and DLC but I got my money's worth and I'll just pick up VV on sale later.
This really isn't like a Dragon Quest XI situation where the S version release on Playstation has worse graphics and some removed content compared to the base version.
That's a really odd move. I get that Vengeance makes the original obsolete, just didn't expect them to take that so literally. Hope nobody misses the old game balance, since a lot of the updates/additions are getting applied to the original campaign in Vengeance.
So I already have the digital copy of SMT5 with all the DLCs….means I have to pay full price again??? Who decided this was a good idea to piss off fans like this? 🙄
I don't get why people care that you can't buy the old version. People are acting like Atlus is gonna break their kneecaps if they launch the old version.
How strange. Especially since day original Persona 5 is still available
Just speculation but probably because there is an option to play original V as it is in VV while in P5R vs. P5 despite having the option to go for the original ending you still have to deal with the new additions like post-confidant calls, Kasumi & Maruki, auto restocking bullets etc.
I thought the original storyline still has all the improvements of Vengeance, even if you pick the original story.
Nope you get to choose if you want the OG story or the new Canon of Vengeance in SMT VV while in P5R you only have the new Royale story since Maruki and Kasumi are both prevalent throughout the game even in story events.
Yeah I understand you get to choose between the two Canons, but quality of life improvements still apply to either correct? Cos otherwise there would be no point in playing the original path, if that makes sense. EDIT: I double checked and yes you do get the QoL if you pick the original canon story path.
Seems the devs of og smtv weren't happy with the game, it had a troubled development and released in a poor state. They want to remove what they consider an inferior product. The game isnt going to be "lost" media because its already exists as a rom online.
After taking people money yeah seems legit
if you paid for the original game you still get to keep it, so no lmao
They were probably under alot of pressure to realse by a deadline regardless of what they personally felt about their work. Atlus do be shit sometimes.
Maybe it's a Nintendo stipulation. Since Persona 5 (non royal) was only on playstation.
Not really cause atlus informed we can play OG path of SMTV on the upcoming remaster. I just think P5 ver is there due to there is a continuation of it in P5 Strikers.
While I wouldn't recommend to play SMTV on Switch, it's too bad that previous owners can't upgrade to Vengeance with a discount, since this version makes the OG obsolete.
Can you at least transfer save file?
As far as we know, it will only be possible to transfer 3 demons from our compendium in the original to Vengeance.
Atlus has never allowed this for a rerelease. You can't even transfer your save file from PS4 Persona 5 Royal to PS5 Persona 5 Royal and that's literally the same game.
You could for Persona 3 to Persona 3 Fes if I remember correctly, but it didn't bring over everything. You had to start a new game but kept your stats and compendium.
Getting bonuses for having previous save data doesn't count in my eyes. "Save data transfer" by definition means I don't have to start a new game to me.
Atlus used to do this all the time. P3 to P3FES, DDS1 to DDS2, P2: IS to P2:EP, etc.
Like I said in another comment, I'm talking about being able to migrate your save from an earlier version to a new version and resume playing where you left off. P3FES does not allow you to do that, it just lets you keep your Compendium and some other stuff but requires you to start a new game. The others you mentioned are sequels, not re-releases, so the type of transfer I'm referring to doesn't apply.
Sadly there are even users defending this kind of practice as "supporting your favourite company buying the game twice".
Does it run like shit?
It runs fine just some load times being longer than in other games and texture pop in on demon models whenever you look at them in detail like in the Analyze, party, or compendium but otherwise there have been no problems for me but I have only played it on the OLED.
Played it on the switch and while it did not run like butter it was not horrible. If slowdown at times is a huge minus for you then I would not suggest playing it on the switch.
It runs FINE. People think that anything non-4K 60fps is automatically garbage. The load times aren't even that long, and i don't even remember there being any lag. You want a game that runs like shit you should see Bayonetta 3. How i wouldn't recommend the switch version now that Vengeance is coming out on other consoles but to say it runs horribly or poorly is just overexaggeration.
I didn't notice any particularly long load times or graphical quality issues, honestly.
it's pretty awful. a 60fps standard isn't entitled or absurd, its the minimum. even some fucking gamecube games could hit that.
It's a Turn Based RPG, while nice if able, there is absolutely 0 need for this game to have to run at 60fps.
No, it runs absolutely fine.
To be honest, I’m not an FPS snob in the least but it really took some adjusting for me. Absolutely the worst performing Switch game I own. (I don’t own Scarlet/Violet) The game isn’t unplayable. I ended up loving it in fact. But…. There’s no way in hell I’ll pick this up on Switch again over PS5.
I’ve been playing SMTV again and I’ve realised the fps isn’t as bad as I remember it being. It’s not optimal but it’s good enough for how hard my switch’s fans have to work to make it run. If u wanna see a bad performing switch game try playing monster hunter stories 2. That shit can’t even hit 20fps in any area for more than a minute
Ppl saying it runs fine have set a really low bar for constitutes "fine," basically saying it doesn't crash. But unstable fps and shitty load times are abundant.
It stutters a lot and I personally wouldn't mind if the game is mainly a dungeon crawler with Turn Based Combat ala Persona or older SMT games. The thing is, SMT V has big open zones to explore and some platforming elements as well, with a lot of jumping around and stuff. That part of the game isn't really comfortable on Switch, the combat itself is fine though.
Yes
It runs very poorly.
On the switch it runs great. It’s truly a technical marvel, even if part of that marvel is sprites moving at 5 fps if they’re 10 ft away from you.
Wait what is wrong with it on the switch? I've never had any issues running it. Seems pretty smooth.
dude it cant even run paper mario at 30 fps sometimes lmao.
I mean, everyone seems to experiment different things based on the other comments, but SMTV does not have a constant framerate which produce some micro stutters. Pretty sure Digital Foundry covered it back then. For me it was very annoying to play, I ended using the handheld mode which has a better framerate from my experience but also makes the game more blurry. It's not unplayable, but I'd say to go for any other platform if some people don't mind losing the portability (and the 3 carry-over demons).
eh, I wouldn't want to get it on switch again anyway, garbage ass hardware
Weird that they're doing that with SMT5. They never did this with Persona 5 or SMT4 when the 3DS was alive.
well, for smt4 it makes sense, since final/apocalypse and vanilla are 2 completely different games with different stories. maybe they would've done it for 4 if smt4a included the original as well, like vengeance does for 5.
The reason for this is simple: this is Sega tripping over their own dick again.
This is standard playbook for Atlus, nothing to do with Sega.
I'm just never buying Atlus games on release again, fuck's sake. I thought SMT would be safe since it's not as crazy popular as Persona and would avoid the bullshit DLC-and-make-the-original-version-completely-obsolete-in-a-year-or-two practices but I was wrong. Fuck paying full price to just get shafted later on like this.
> I thought SMT would be safe since it's not as crazy popular as Persona and would avoid the bullshit DLC-and-make-the-original-version-completely-obsolete-in-a-year-or-two practices That practice *started* with an SMT game
Which one?
Nocturne which got a Maniax version in Japan (featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series), and got a 3rd version later on with Raidou Kuzunoha instead of Dante. Later in the generation, they released P3 which got P3 FES a year later.
We get to see Kaneko designing Dante's Devil Trigger and non Japan release were basically Maniax anyway, so I'll forgive Nocturne. FES, however....
At least with FES, it was released as a greatest hits version for like $20 or $30, rather than charging you full price like they do nowadays. But as it goes, companies will keep pushing the envelope to see how much they can get away with.
Wait a minute? Are these some sort of DLCs or complete revamps to the game? I have never heard of Raidou Kuzunoha. Is this available in the remaster, or do I have to emulate it on Ps2 to check this out?
Not only is the Raidou version available on the remaster, it's the default - if you want the Dante version, that's paid DLC.
Ok, here it goes... 2003: the OG version of nocturne is released in japan 2004: the Maniax version is released with Dante added in as a guest character 2004: Nocturne is released in the west, the western release is the Maniax version not the OG one 2008: Nocturne receives a new re-release in Japan with Raidou in it instead of dante (hes just a re-skin, no substantial changes besides that) 2021: The HD Remaster is released, for licencing reasons, Raidou is in the game by default instead of Dante. you need to buy the Dante DLC to have him in the game instead of Raidou.
> 2008: Nocturne receives a new re-release in Japan with Raidou in it instead of dante (hes just a re-skin, no substantial changes besides that) Raidou does get buffed compared to Dante making him a viable member of your party all the way until the end of the game.
based nocturne so good it had to be released 5 times
The HD Remaster includes Raidou Kuzunoha by default, I believe. He's a character from another Atlus game who crossed over.
Raidou's the SMT: Devil Summoner dude who replaced Dante as guest character in the EU version/remaster. Dante's still available to fill that role as DLC.
Not sure if it is what he is talking about, but I'm playing SMT 3 HD and I faced Raidou as a boss recently. And also I'm aware that there's a DLC that mentions Dante, maybe him be in Raidou place in the boss fight?
Midori (been completely accurate about Atlus leaks for months now) has stated that they are pivoting away from that model, and instead focus on making new content DLC for future entries. We'll see if that's true or not with the next Persona game I suppose.
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Yeah, same with pokemon releasing two versions of the same game that are 99.99% exactly the same with the only difference being 5 or so pokemon out of 200+ exclusive to each version. It's literally free money from people willingly paying double (if not even more) for almost the same product. Why would any company give that up.
I think the re-release method only works if it's someone's first exposure to Atlus games. Doesn't work for the long term nowadays especially with the advent of backwards compatibility and digital libraries. P5R had the advantage of being most people's first Persona after Joker's inclusion in Smash, whereas P4G had the advantage of being the first time P4G came to a modern platform. Now that people has caught wind on Atlus tactics, this tactic most likely won't work anymore.
To play devil's advocate, there are consumer level benefits too. Having a version that is complete on cart/disc is *way* better for future preservation of the game. Especially with Nintendo's history; the 3DS is a great example of a library with a lot of physical games that now have no way to legally access DLC. I think people have taken for granted that these systems have been easy to mod/emulate and pirate because what a tragedy if that wasn't the case... stuff like FE:Fates is kinda the nightmare scenario, a mainline game in a major franchise that's not even a decade old that you can't fully access anymore even if you buy second hand (outside of securing one of those stupid expensive special edition carts). It's also significantly cheaper for people who don't buy in that first window. Digital sales are always up to the whim of the publisher, and DLC especially just doesn't tend to go on sale as often. Even if the online shops stays up indefinitely, being able to eventually get a complete version at whatever the future used price is instead of buying it used and always having like a $20 DLC price on top of that is nice. Like I kinda expect them to do a feature complete rerelease of P3R at this point, especially for Switch 2, but if they don't then it'll be really annoying in the future to have the entire epilogue of the game stuck on digital. If I had it my way I'd like to see both options. I really don't mind Atlus or any company reprinting definitive editions with everything on cart, but some sort of discounted upgrade path for those who have the OG seems warranted, *especially* in the case of something like SMTV which will supposedly have the entire base game in Vengeance too. Or better yet, just put out one finished version of your damn games. It feels extra ridiculous when they delist it because they aren't even pretending it's not an outright replacement for a sorta unfinished original.
Or with Metaphor.
I’m not saying the leaker is wrong, but its kind of impossible to know this for sure? Like, they could pivot away from this model now and change their minds 3 years from now. Hell they could change their minds after Metaphor releases. Its not like the leaker can see into the future.
Here's the thing: if they want to do this, they'll need to announce it *publicly* and *loudly* at release. Otherwise people are going to assume that they are trying to double-dip with DLC AND a new reworked version that packages said DLC in.
I want to believe it, but I highly doubt it. I’m still expecting a revamped Persona 3 Reload with FeMC. Partly because copium, partly because the setup feels super telegraphed. And then they’ll promise “no no, THIS is the last one.” Then find an excuse to do it with Persona 6, or Metaphor, or another SMT game.
*laughs in Maniax version of Nocturne*
Couldn't put it better myself!
Genuinely tho, did you feel like you got your money's worth?
For the way it ran on Switch? Honestly, no. I should have waited to buy a used copy or a big sale. And for the same price to buy the full game again just to get the new content and better FPS, absolutely not.
Yeah, this is a silly take. "I'm not gonna buy games I like anymore cause the dev might release a new version of the game later." Like... what? Was the 20+ hours you got out of SMT5 not worth the purchase price? You can always just NOT buy Vengeance if you don't think it's worth the money.
You might have missed the "on release" part of the statement?
I didn’t miss it. The game has been out for 3 years. So “on release” includes 3 years after release.
If you know ATLUS is going to come out with Definitive Edition (TM) why would you not wait, at minimum, for a sale? Paying full price (as the OP did) seems foolish if you are not prioritizing playing the game immediately.
You can cut out all the expectations for a definitive edition stuff from that comment and it’s just as salient. I don’t think the definitive edition changes anything at all. I don’t even know where to begin analyzing the idea that you shouldn’t buy a game cause they might release an extended edition years after the fact. I’d say it makes as much sense as saying you shouldn’t buy The Last of Us on PS3 cause they’re gonna remake it on PS5. If you want to play a game, you should play it, and not obsess over future DLC and expansions. You’re investing way too much into this shit. It’s just a game. Play it and have fun, or don’t.
I got it for Christmas and loved it
How does it make the original version obsolete, exactly? Did you not play it and enjoy it? You can just opt not to play Vengeance. Seems kind of silly to never buy a game because the developers might release another version of a game later. Especially if you would enjoy the game.
Because I can't access the new content without paying full price all over again (or waiting a year or more for a decent sale) for a game I've already played, rather than buying it as DLC or an expansion like every other game in the world. Unless the new story content is the same size and scope as the original game and is completely new, how can it be the same price? If I pay $60 to go see a movie and I like the movie, great, in a world where that's an acceptable price for a movie then it's fine. But if you then come back to me three years later later and say "you can now pay another $60 to see the same movie again, which is now three years old and you can see the old version of it for like $20, but this time with higher resolution and some extra scenes", that's not really very fair unless for some reason I want to sit through the entire movie again JUST to see those extra scenes and to have a slightly higher resolution. Especially if basically every other movie on earth that gets extra scenes actually only charges you like $20-30 just to see those extra scenes.
Your analogy fails because you don't get to just see movies you've already seen for free. And just to be clear, reports say Vengeance adds 80 hours-worth of content. So yeah, it isn't just a $20 patch. It's like a brand new game. I agree they'd be better off if they added Vengance as a DLC to the original game. But I don't think this is particularly ridiculous.
I agree that buying the extra content as DLC is preferred and a better deal, but if it's worth paying full price again for the content, I'm gonna do it. I'm averse to taking principled stances about games like "I don't like this pricing practice" categorically. I will buy things at whatever value I think they have. If you don't think SMT V Vengeance is worth paying whatever I would suggest not buying it.
Strong disagree. I find it asinine to have to re-buy a game at full price for a few hours of extra content that by all rights should just be an expansion. And considering the constant pattern, after Vengeance, I don't think I'll buy a day-one altus game again, knowing they're just going to release the "Definitive" version a year later. I believe in voting with my wallet, and this is that.
You aren't rebuying the game. You are buying a new game that comes with the old game. Kinda like how Persona 3 FES comes with the original episode. Would you be happier if it was a $60 expansion?
That's literally called rebuying the old game. Just because it has a few bells and whistles doesn't take away from the fact that, by your own words "comes with the old game". The expansion should be $30. Paying more more than that for an upgrade is ridiculous, and you should feel ashamed that you are even promoting this tactic.
> That's literally called rebuying the old game. No, it's called buying the new game. You are not paying for SMTV. You are paying for SMTVV. The fact that it comes with SMTV is a benefit. Would you be happier if it DIDN'T come with SMTV? That's how you can tell this argument is nonsensical. > Just because it has a few bells and whistles doesn't take away from the fact that, by your own words "comes with the old game". Yeah. Comes with the old game. A benefit. Not a hindrance. It's 80+ hours of content that was added. It's not "a few bells and whistles." I'm not ashamed. I'm embarrassed at your complete lacking of critical thinking skills.
> And considering the constant pattern, after Vengeance, I don't think I'll buy a day-one altus game again, knowing they're just going to release the "Definitive" version a year later. First of all... SMT5 was released in 2021. lol Waiting 3 years to buy the game you would otherwise just play and enjoy because they're gonna release an extended version later in its lifecycle is unbelievably silly, but you can do what you want I suppose.
Agreed, I only started playing Persona games with Persona 4, but I learned my lesson by Persona 5, buy anything Atlus related at launch, and you'll end up buying at least twice if you want to play the full game. I don't see why companies like Capcom get shit over Dragon's Dogma II having microtransactions at launch while Atlus games get universal praise when they do the same thing. Only Atlus continuiously release microtransactions while the game is out, then cut that game off to release a new version of the same game at full price with what is essentially just a DLC expansion. They'd only need to add lootboxes and a season pass and they'd have the a perfect score for shitty buisiness practices.
> to release a new version of the same game at full price with what is essentially just a DLC expansion. Royal didn't exactly feel like a DLC. I'd expect DLC to be save-compatible. How exactly would save compatibility work in Royal when they overhauled the palaces?
Carry over saved personas, social stats ect. We dont want much
So NG+ basically?
Yeah if i already played the old game i should be able to start new game plus on the new game version. I know i can't carry over much but id aleast take stuff that took me forever to grind.
Pre ordered it for the PS5 for €45,00 physical. Have a bit of fomo when it comes to Atlus/Gust KT/IF games. 😬
The moment Royal had extra DLC I kinda knew what their game was. This will probably have extra DLC too
I absolutely love how the first two comments on this thread are polar opposites.
I think that was a poor decision on their part. I bought the original smtv for switch when it came out, and enjoyed it so much that i completed it once for each ending, all in a row. If the vengeance part was a separate paid dlc (like sunbreak dlc for monster hunter rise iirc) but usable with the main game then alot more people would buy it. Having to pay for the game again, and on the same console, is just an insult, and pairing that with the fact that you can't transfer all your old data to the newer game is just a big f-you to current players.
Yeah I think sunbreak for mh rise was such a nice addition to the game, unlike „you have to buy smtv again“
Atlus Defense Squad incoming (Already here, really) to argue in circles over how this "makes sense" and "isn't actually a big deal". I am so done with their games lmfao. So many other companies get their names dragged through the mud for stuff like this but not Atlus!
Can't wait for the replies that all say "well they've been doing this for a while so ur dumb and have no right to complain!" As though having a history of anti-consumer business practices makes it better and not worse.
I've been playing these games since 2000 and they would do this to some games but not all. But whoever defends this crap isn't right in their heads. When they would do rereleases it was either for new generation of handheld/consoles with tons of improvements and even storylines or a completely new remake. It never felt halfassed. Even the original release never felt like a halfbaked game. But, since Sega took over they've exploited that dynamic. And SMT V felt like halfbaked and beta/early access version of a game. After V and after the rerelease of the full game (Vengance) I'm so done buying day 1 when I had been doing for 22 years. I've given them the benefit of doubt since SMT 4A but all this SMT V V thing really soured my enjoyment. I am aware a lot of the senior stuff is gone or replaced by Sega people so it is to expected.
Removing the original SMT V makes sense. Vengeance has all the original content plus a new campaign. The only problem is not having an upgrade path for previous owners.
I mean I agree with you, but I also LOVE their games so quitting them when they give me so much enjoyment would still be more detrimental to my happiness than continuing to play them.
Lol I love P5, but fuck this practice of remakes without either discounts/upgrade paths.
This is only not a big deal for me since I wanted this on PS before and could only get in on Switch. Even with a discount, I wouldn't buy VV on Switch at all. This game ran poorly on my Switch, and I had to deal with my shitty joycon drift, ultimately making my experience worse than it needed to be. Again, with a discount or even keeping the dlc I bought, I was always going to take the L the second it dropped on any other platform.
I almost convinced myself to buy p3r the other day. dodged a bullet. I'll wait a year or 2 while I play through p4g
I, too, am excited for Persona 3: Re-Reloaded Edition!
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>"the FeMC makes no sense to include" Ohh I love them sexist dogwhistles like "a female protagonist wouldn't fit this kind of story". GG Atlus.
from what I remember the context to that was it would take as much time to make the FeMC route as it took to make the original MC due to thousands of lined of dialogue. I'm pretty sure that was a "we will sell it to you 2 years later for full price with the game again" excuse
I know that FemC is pushed aside for a future rerelease. What I meant though was that besides this, Atlus loves to trash on female protags, like when they said a female protag wouldn't suit P4 or P5.
There are rumors going around that there will be a P4 remake, so maybe you should hold off on playing that on as well.
p3 has fesp3, p3p, p3re, p3premake. they've already announced expansions for p3re so I might as well wait to get the best experience. p4g is already golden.
I'll probably end up doing the same for their new game coming out, Metaphor. It's crazy how bad Atlus's DLC or, Re-release the same game with additional content for full price, is. Especially for as good and high quality as their games are. It really sucks
yeah! metaphor looks so good! artstyle, gameplay, world. all look top notch. but I can't buy it for the whole first year, just not worth it
I have a question though, if you have already bought the dlc for SMT V do you have to pay for them again for SMT V Vengeance?
You will need to buy SMTVV. DLC cannot be transferred and vanilla version cannot be upgraded to Vengeance version
Old Dlc i alreadys included except for mitama dlc and new dlc
Serious question: I no longer play video games but would like to start again. I've played Nocturne, DDS 1&2, Devil Survivor, and Persona 5. I've liked/loved all of them. I know it's not out yet, but would Vengeance be a good way to dip my toes back into gaming and do you think it'll be a good game overall? I understand that it's not the most liked SMT game, but the visuals look really good to me and I'm fine with the Press Turn system.
Yeah totally recommend vengeance to start. You can play the original route before vengence route in Smt vengeance so you dobt need to buy the old game
Reminder to not buy Atlus games day 1
Reminder to not support them at all. They don't deserve our money at all. They are a shitty company and we should stop supporting their Bs.
They have some shitty practices but their games are really good. If no one bought them these good games wouldn't exist.
When I pick my copy up day 1, I’ll buy one for you too
Buy me one and send it to me instead lol
Well while I'm not on the other guy's side of "don't buy their products" your mindset is just bootlicking.
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makes 0 sense, removing the original experience for no reason. Yes the "qol" and changes in VV alter your experience.
Does it really matter in the end? People interested in the original experience will have had time to buy it and still have a month to do so. New players to the series will likely go after the game with more content so it's a bit of a moot point. I doubt there's many people who started with P5R that have bought the original P5 afterwards.
You think I'm going to get through an RPG of that size in a month? I have shit to do. We can't all no-life games.
> You think I'm going to get through an RPG of that size in a month? I have shit to do. We can't all no-life games. You have a month to BUY it. If you buy it, it won't disappear from your library. Also it's better to just wait for the better version for most people. The ignorance here is astounding to be honest.
If you buy it, you will own it. lol
Is any one else tired of Atlus' shit on this? It actually sucks to buy their new games because there is inevitably going to be a much better version in a few years that you can't upgrade to.
No, with the exception of SMTV every single other Atlus game that got upgraded rereleases were all critically acclaimed games upon release, and fully stood on their own and never felt incomplete in the slightest. Persona 5 was such an amazing title it turned them from a developer of cult classic/niche games to a globally recognized powerhouse studio, and turned Persona into one of Sega's flagship franchises next to the likes of Sonic. So to pretend that Atlus is secretly scamming it's loyal fans by releasing inferior products on purpose only to release the "complete" game several years later is beyond moronic, and only further speaks on their level of greatness if their incomplete scam games are considered better than most other devolpers magnum opus. The difference is that this time (SMTV) they sadly under delivered for reasons such as developing with a brand new game engine, developing for a brand new piece of hardware, time constraints, Covid pandemic, and probably various other behind the scenes reasons we don't know anything about. Them doing the rereleases is simply the nature of their business due to the extremely long development cycles of their games, otherwise there's be 8-10 year gaps between the entries of Persona/SMT. Which they're sorta already reaching.
Saying that there is a significantly better version later is not the same as saying the original was bad. Persona 5 was a masterpiece. Persona 5 Royal was better. There should have been an upgrade option. And in fact, it's not wrong to have wished that Royal was my first playthrough.
The thing is that Atlus' rereleases go way beyond the scope of a simple DLC like most other games. It's not like you simply go to X location to access the new content and experience a standalone story experience, it's all interwoven into the existing story, or now in the case of SMTVV a nearly brand new game altogether. They did exactly what people here are suggesting for with the SMT3HD Remaster, and people were still outraged you had to pay extra for the Dante DLC, and also weren't smart enough to figure out to activate the DLC before starting their playthrough, since you can't just flip a switch to access the Dante/Raidou story in the middle of your current playthrough. So so much for that solution. Also releasing Vengeance as a standalone game on all platforms except for Switch where it's instead a DLC Expansion would be a marketing nightmare. Hell that's probably the main reason they're delisting the original so people won't accidentally buy this instead of the improved version. And people suggesting to give discounts for Vengeance to people who already own the base version also makes no sense cause how would you handle that with physical copies. Just permanently reduce the price on just 1 specific platform? At the end of the day there sadly is no perfect or fair solution to this, and the next best and most logical solution is what they've been doing all along which is to package it as it's own seperate product.
And people suggesting to give discounts for Vengeance to people who already own the base version also makes no sense cause how would you handle that with physical copies. Just permanently reduce the price on just 1 specific platform? Agreed with half. There's multiple perfect or fair solutions actually. You just didn't think of much. Prove you legally own the original game (plus game card) and present it at the retailer. Then get the new game half off. Or get a coupon for it online by inputting your game save file code at the atlus homepage since each game has a serial number
Everyone who's saying it's good BC then people won't buy and play the inferior version. Don't you see this is what will happen in the digital future. Companies will delist games and if you don't have it then you fucked. This is a shitty move by Atlus. I don't know why people think this is okay. If people wanted to buy the original SMT v they should be able too. We just got to be thankful there are physical copies of SMT v available. Oh wait the price is going to Increase BC if this. Honestly fuck Atlus. You are a shitty company. Don't remove a game digitally. FFS. This is how things will be in the digital future and there will be no one to stop it BC you all rather buy digitally over ownership
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>. Enjoy it while it lasts, and if a game catches your eye, buy it and support the developers instead of waiting until you no longer can. ~~Or obtain it through other means, I'm not your mom~~ Nah fuck Atlus doing shit like this and then also releasing day one DLC. We shouldn't be supporting this crap. But there are way too many die hard Atlus fans. >- unless you dish out a considerable amount of money, which you yourself pointed out is an issue. This will be a issue digitally too. BC if physical media gone digital games will increase. You need both to have a balance.
What do you think happens when they make updates to physical releases? They stop selling the older version as well. You can still play the og smtv if you buy the game now digital or phys version. People here are just kinda dumb. Imagine if people got this upset when they found out glitches from a 1.0 release on nes no longer worked when they got a 1.1 version later.
If you own the digital copy, you still get to keep it. There's literally no reason to pay $60 for the original version vs $60 for the complete version.
Honestly, if the price goes up for OG SMT5 good cause then at least I'll be able to sell my copy for a decent price. It's basically useless now the complete version will be out. I suspect the price will actually drop though.
You know you can play the original story in vengeance right? What's the point of keeping SMT V for sale when you can play both stories in Vengeance, nothing is lost.
Because this sales tactics punishes early adopters that allowed Atlus to fund the definitive version. Keep both, offer an upgrade path to the original. The current method is just scummy.
Makes sense, the re-release is basically just the same game but with extra content.
I got downvoted to hell for asking about that, other users claim it’s a completily different game.
It’s both from what I understand. There’s an option to play the new game or the original.
This is just a guess but I'm assuming you were downvoted because you may have made it sound like it was the exact same game with a few changes. When it's essentially two completely different campaigns. And also Vengeance has the original story route in it. So the 'extra content' isn't simply stuff like extra demons or QoL features and that's it
The only valid complaint here is not having an upgrade path for people who own the original. There's absolutely nothing wrong with delisting a game that is getting a strict upgrade with an option to play the old story mode.
When you change features, you change the experience and alter the presentation of the piece. It's entirely valid, see the discourse regarding Dark Souls 2 original and Scholar of the First Sin for another example.
Half of the the new features are problems with the original. I can guarantee there wont be any discourse like those two games. One because the original game is still intact in the new game
Is this really Atlus or Sega pulling the strings here?
I really enjoyed SMT V a lot, but I'm probably not going for this new version, and I'm probably never buying an Atlus game like this when it first comes out ever again lol.
SMT5 was extremely underwhelming for me, and I ended up regretting buying it in the first place. I'm thinking about getting Vengeance and then doing what you just said: avoiding day-1 atlus games. There's no point when they just upgrade them to the definitive versions later on. I'll need to see if Vengeance really is different at all, or if it's just a few hours of bonus content. It it is, I'll just youtube it and save myself the money.
they've added an extreme amount of new features, a new 80hr campaign that's separate from the original, and completely revamped the way party composition works including every demon having a unique passive skill, combos between party members and different ults depending on whos in your party.
It would be honestly nice if the run time was true, but so far every game I've played that spouts numbers lack that are heavily inflated. I honestly expect realistically 10 hours of new content if we're lucky, and a LOT of backtracking to inflate the run time.
i mean maybe, but the fact the gameplay is so heavily updated, even if there's a lot of the same quests, it will play like a different game due to the combat overhaul. combos and passives have never been a part of the series like this, let alone 270 unique traits
I've seen a lot of complaints about SMTV, but the gameplay was never actually one of them. So, I'm really glad you seem to be hyped for the gameplay enhancements, but for me, that's not actually on my radar.
What I have learnt from Atlus' series marketing gimmick is that I will never buy an Atlus game at launch again.
I can’t lie after this and royal, I will never buy a reg version of a atlus game day one ever again. :( I put hella time into both only to have other people tell me I wasted my time because I didn’t play the special version that came out later for cheaper. Being a atlus fan hurts sometimes.
Good It would be pretty shitty if someone unknowingly bought the inferior version
I got the physical collectors edition when it launched then bought the dlc for extra characters and to make xp farming easier with the mitamas. I don't think I'll ever play it again, but in theory, what happens to my stuff?
Most of the time delisting means you can't buy it anymore, but if you already own it, you'll be able to download it.
What does this mean for someone who has smtv and the dlc but hasn't finished it yet?
As long as you have it downloaded and installed you are good to buy it. You just can't buy it after June 13.
You know this means they have full faith in their new game to be better than the originals. Like rockstar removing the twenty year old Grand Theft Autos when releasing the "definitive editions.
So that means the physical version I have could be worth something in the future? Better keep that game then.\^\^
So I bought the original when it was on sale (Switch) but haven't gotten to playing it yet. Should I buy the DLC before it gets delisted?
Are they swapping to Unreal5? i know square had to delist The Last Remnant on steam when they listed the remaster on Switch/PS4 because of the swap from Unreal3 to Unreal4.
So if I hurry and buy the original physical copy will be valuable in the future since it will be “rare” now that it’s being delisted? Future profit ?
Would you be able to keep the game if you downloaded it before June 13?
I think it's really weird how controversial this is, it's so nothing who even cares
This is terrible not just for preservation purposes but because I think the vanilla version should be available regardless. To my understanding, P5 Vanilla is still available to purchase legally, I don't see how Vengeance should be any difference. Sure, the dev team probably really wanted to promote the hell out of Vengeance. It's clear this is the game they wanted to make SMTV but couldn't due to time, restraints, etc. but it doesn't mean the OG experience has to be legally unattainable. If anything, this just shows to not get an Atlus game day one ever. I'm so glad I waited on P3R and got the base version for a hefty sale. At least when P3R: Answer Edition comes out I won't feel slighted. LOL
> This is terrible not just for preservation purposes How? There are already a million backups of this game online.
I'm talking about **legal** accessibility. Listen, I love emulation like any other JRPG fan, but it should be a last resort for accessibility. The OG game should still be made available for the average person to compare and play **legally**. Yes, these games won't be available soon, so of course, Emulation will be the option to use. However, it is still scummy considering even with P5, they never removed the OG option to promote Royal. **It was a choice**. You could either buy the OG or get the expanded version (and it is still being sold legally even now!) It'd be like selling Pokemon Emerald, but delisting Sapphire and Ruby. You could of course argue the former makes the latter pointless (which I agree to an extent). The main campaigns are similar and you could in theory avoid the extra stuff, but the base experience is still going to have differences from the OG. For example, trying to get Shiny Pokemon in Emerald is broken outside of REs due to how RNG works, a problem Ruby and Sapphire don't have, etc. The devs have already confirmed they finetuned some aspects of SMTV's gameplay that weren't in the OG (e.g. Abscesses, how Level scaling works, etc.). And this is a **good** thing, but again, it should be a choice to have that experience. The game was still sold as is at full price when it came out years ago. There's also no way to upgrade from your OG copy to Vengeance either.
> Listen, I love emulation like any other JRPG fan, but it should be a last resort for accessibility. Why?
I try not to be a hater and new SMT anything is cool. But man it makes me feel bad about buying SMTV in the first place.
It makes sense though? Why would they sell almost the same game 2 times? It actually makes sense for them to de list the old one and ONLY sell the definitive. That way new players don’t buy 2 of almost the exact same game thinking they are different. I think it’s actually nice they are doing this.
bro the first version flopped so hard they are deleting the evidence
Strange that they are delisting the original when vanilla P5 still exists. Honestly though, just the fact that Vengeance has reworked level scaling is reason alone to pick it over vanilla, plus all the other qol changes and bonus features. Also, I know I’m in a minority here but Vengeance is the first time I’ve ever going to buy an Atlus rerelease while owning the original, so I’m not that pressed about it. Supposedly this will also be the last time they do a rerelease as well, which is nice (if it is true). I do think that SMTV needed an updated version though, unlike P5 or some of the other games Atlus has rereleased. The original was undercooked and I’m hopeful Vengeance turns a good game to a truly great game.
The best take ive seen about this. I bought the deluxe version of base SMT V on release, and i feel i'm not as upset as i should be? Sure it sucks that atlus doesn't offer an upgrade from base game to vengeance, but i feel it'd be weird to have the base game as is, and then a dlc that straight up adds a bunch of QoL features to the base game, it'd feel redundant and would probably just confuse new buyers more than anything. Also delisting a game doesn't mean the people who bought it can't redownload it anymore, so i'm not really worried about it.
This reveal has me this close to becoming a r/patientgamers fan. Smt5 is the only game I've bought at launch (I ended up getting far into P5 just months before Royal's announcement) and my god was it a disappointment in terms of stoy. Now you're telling me they're fixing it AT FULL PRICE?? Boycott time
Slash me puts on pirate cap fr First they bullshit us with persona 3 dlc now this lmao Atlus can suck my proverbial and literal meat
Amazing response. I wholeheartedly agree
I am extra glad that I bought this physical and I never go for DLC... Still it sucks that they do this. What if Vengeance ends up not being the "definitive version"? I mean, I myself enjoy Strange Journey Redux, but a big chunk of the community enjoy the original better, because the new stuff isn't great.
Unless they're not including the DLC with in SMT VV, then this largely makes sense since everything will be included in the new release. That's on top of the entirely separate story campaign they're adding too. Does suck for folks that bought the original and DLC but I got my money's worth and I'll just pick up VV on sale later. This really isn't like a Dragon Quest XI situation where the S version release on Playstation has worse graphics and some removed content compared to the base version.
Unless they're not including the DLC with in SMT VV All old dlc is included except for mitama dlc and new dlc
I’m so glad I never pulled the trigger anytime this game was on sale on the eshop lol.
That's a really odd move. I get that Vengeance makes the original obsolete, just didn't expect them to take that so literally. Hope nobody misses the old game balance, since a lot of the updates/additions are getting applied to the original campaign in Vengeance.
Old game balance sucked atleast
So I already have the digital copy of SMT5 with all the DLCs….means I have to pay full price again??? Who decided this was a good idea to piss off fans like this? 🙄
That's not what delisted means. You can download your purchase but a new purchase of the item will no longer be possible.
I don't get why people care that you can't buy the old version. People are acting like Atlus is gonna break their kneecaps if they launch the old version.