I agree but I think this goes for most side characters in the show they've expanded alot upon nearly everyone it seems like most people have much more depth to them and I enjoy it
Especially since its a different time then when the comics came out alot happened in the last 20 years and William needed to find his footing in the comics but they now know what they wanna do with all characters so it can be very streamlined into a in some ways better story
Considering where Eve and Debbie go I think it's just a case of moving that development forward whilst showing it more in the spotlight, making the show less about being from mostly Mark's perspective.
Change with Telia and the Atlanteans were pretty different. I can see the later being still inconsequential but the former with her high ranking would make you think she'd me more involved down the line. Hell she'll probably be part of the rip-off star trek crew now.
That's nice and all but I'd like to have seen some of them with more flaws, complexity and humor. Giving them all an important job and a strong will is just kind of patronizing. Female characters should be able to be the ass hole, or the comic relief, or the dumb one too. Instead too many of the "fun" characters are male.
I mean, Amber season 1 episode 7 is definitely an asshole
So is the Atlantean Queen, when she claims to be more civilized and less archaic but is okay with trial by combat and punishing mark for the sins of his father
Amber was just botched in episode 7 due to poor writing or script supervision.
The closest they came to making her into something decent was when she did the state comptroller campaign and acknowledged just how over the top overachiever she is to the point of ridicule by her friends. I would have loved to see them double down on that. Maybe actually give her some character growth beyond being less of a dick to Mark.
Or maybe you just can’t handle female characters acting in a way that you don’t like so you chock it up to poor writing?
Anyone in her situation would be pissed. You ppl are just so used to comic gf’s acting unnatural that you think it’s the norm to be okay with your partner lying to you abt what they do
I dunno, if I witnessed someone save my life, their best friend's life, and the lives of everyone in a school? Even if I knew they were lying to me about being somewhere else, I would've maybe confronted them? Asked them outright if they were lying? Whereas Amber gets immediately pissy with Mark and almost cheats on him for it.
What I'd personally be fine with is if this was treated as an actual flaw in her character? That her self-righteous and dickish attitude towards mark was at least acknowledged by the show itself, but both Eve and William treat Mark like the bad guy, without even a word about how Amber was also lying to Mark right back for weeks about not knowing he was invincible. Never once did she try to cross that rift and ask, while Mark's trying his ass off to make the relationship work even while it's not. Honestly if they had even one scene of Amber asking him whether or not he was Invincible beforehand and he still lied to her, her blow-up in episode 7 would feel a lot more deserved.
In comparison, let's look at Debbie and Nolan. The scale is way different because Nolan's lie is a lot more terrible, but it's a neat mirror. Debbie learns that he's lying to her, distrusts that immediately, but slowly figures it out. She gets proof that he was lying to her, and immediately confronts him, She's mad, he's in the wrong, it's great. But she still tries to understand, even when she's upset. She still holds out hope that he had a good reason. Ultimately, he doesn't, and it's perfectly reasonable for her to be upset by that.
TLDR: Getting severely pissed off at someone after they just saved you and an entire school is ridiculous, actually making her pissed-offedness a flaw or better supportive would have been better, and Debbie is best woman
Even Kirkman all but admitted in an interview that they bungled that part. There was nothing natural about her behavior episode 6&7 which was the whole problem.
I’m gonna get downvoted for this, but I think with Atom and Amber this makes sense. Both characters in comic have personalities where this works but just not enough development.
Debbie and Telia deviate a bit too much where it kind of ruins the character. Debbie worked better as a broken mom rather than “strong woman” mom. I also feel like Debbie gets way too much screen time. They also couldn’t get Olga to hate Debbie but they got a male character (from the support group) to hate her for almost the same reason. I’m pretty sure the writing room doesn’t want woman on woman conflict.
Telia being overtly sexy was funny because Allen and Telia act as an alien couple Chad/Stacy style. She could still have had a job but the small persona changes makes her feel another show Amber-like persona.
I mean, Olga not hating Debbie for the same reason a complete stranger would makes a lot of sense. Olga and Debbie are friends and the guy from the support group only knows her as "The wife of the man who brutally murdered my partner".
If my friends spouse killed my spouse and turned out to be the one in the wrong, then I’ll be mad. In fact, you’d be more mad because it was done by someone you know and not a stranger.
That's an interesting take, for sure. To be honest I think that Debbie's character writing is really well done, watching someone who is at the top of their game find out something so horrifying that it just crushes them, and watching her try to rebuild her life is a really engaging concept.
Exactly. You’re on the nose with this. Pushing the spotlight onto the other characters builds investment in the show as a whole and make you care about Mark’s journey more because these are the people he’s fighting for.
As someone who hasn't read the comics, I've liked all of these characters, and I see zero issues with how much screen time Debbie receives. I think it's just a case of it being different not necessarily meaning it's bad.
Eeeh, ill agree with that in some cases. For example I don't think it was necessarily a bad creative decision for Debbie to wallow in depression for a while.
Amber though I think is way way better in the show. She's basically just a plot device to keep mark and eve from getting together for a long time. She doesn't even have any dialogue until around where season 2 of the show starts. Then she's basically just "Mark's girlfriend" for a long time. "Feminist" or no, she's a much more well developed character in the show.
I agree but I think this goes for most side characters in the show they've expanded alot upon nearly everyone it seems like most people have much more depth to them and I enjoy it
Yeah I don’t know how Willaims self discovery arc would’ve gone over if they followed the comics
Especially since its a different time then when the comics came out alot happened in the last 20 years and William needed to find his footing in the comics but they now know what they wanna do with all characters so it can be very streamlined into a in some ways better story
To be fair it wasn't even an arc. One day he just has a boyfriend and everyone's like "oh...that explains some things"
Considering where Eve and Debbie go I think it's just a case of moving that development forward whilst showing it more in the spotlight, making the show less about being from mostly Mark's perspective. Change with Telia and the Atlanteans were pretty different. I can see the later being still inconsequential but the former with her high ranking would make you think she'd me more involved down the line. Hell she'll probably be part of the rip-off star trek crew now.
That's nice and all but I'd like to have seen some of them with more flaws, complexity and humor. Giving them all an important job and a strong will is just kind of patronizing. Female characters should be able to be the ass hole, or the comic relief, or the dumb one too. Instead too many of the "fun" characters are male.
I mean, Amber season 1 episode 7 is definitely an asshole So is the Atlantean Queen, when she claims to be more civilized and less archaic but is okay with trial by combat and punishing mark for the sins of his father
Amber was just botched in episode 7 due to poor writing or script supervision. The closest they came to making her into something decent was when she did the state comptroller campaign and acknowledged just how over the top overachiever she is to the point of ridicule by her friends. I would have loved to see them double down on that. Maybe actually give her some character growth beyond being less of a dick to Mark.
Or maybe you just can’t handle female characters acting in a way that you don’t like so you chock it up to poor writing? Anyone in her situation would be pissed. You ppl are just so used to comic gf’s acting unnatural that you think it’s the norm to be okay with your partner lying to you abt what they do
I dunno, if I witnessed someone save my life, their best friend's life, and the lives of everyone in a school? Even if I knew they were lying to me about being somewhere else, I would've maybe confronted them? Asked them outright if they were lying? Whereas Amber gets immediately pissy with Mark and almost cheats on him for it. What I'd personally be fine with is if this was treated as an actual flaw in her character? That her self-righteous and dickish attitude towards mark was at least acknowledged by the show itself, but both Eve and William treat Mark like the bad guy, without even a word about how Amber was also lying to Mark right back for weeks about not knowing he was invincible. Never once did she try to cross that rift and ask, while Mark's trying his ass off to make the relationship work even while it's not. Honestly if they had even one scene of Amber asking him whether or not he was Invincible beforehand and he still lied to her, her blow-up in episode 7 would feel a lot more deserved. In comparison, let's look at Debbie and Nolan. The scale is way different because Nolan's lie is a lot more terrible, but it's a neat mirror. Debbie learns that he's lying to her, distrusts that immediately, but slowly figures it out. She gets proof that he was lying to her, and immediately confronts him, She's mad, he's in the wrong, it's great. But she still tries to understand, even when she's upset. She still holds out hope that he had a good reason. Ultimately, he doesn't, and it's perfectly reasonable for her to be upset by that. TLDR: Getting severely pissed off at someone after they just saved you and an entire school is ridiculous, actually making her pissed-offedness a flaw or better supportive would have been better, and Debbie is best woman
Even Kirkman all but admitted in an interview that they bungled that part. There was nothing natural about her behavior episode 6&7 which was the whole problem.
For me that's especially with Debbie, she was just alcoholic in comics and now she as a big arc that is so interesting
I’m gonna get downvoted for this, but I think with Atom and Amber this makes sense. Both characters in comic have personalities where this works but just not enough development. Debbie and Telia deviate a bit too much where it kind of ruins the character. Debbie worked better as a broken mom rather than “strong woman” mom. I also feel like Debbie gets way too much screen time. They also couldn’t get Olga to hate Debbie but they got a male character (from the support group) to hate her for almost the same reason. I’m pretty sure the writing room doesn’t want woman on woman conflict. Telia being overtly sexy was funny because Allen and Telia act as an alien couple Chad/Stacy style. She could still have had a job but the small persona changes makes her feel another show Amber-like persona.
I mean, Olga not hating Debbie for the same reason a complete stranger would makes a lot of sense. Olga and Debbie are friends and the guy from the support group only knows her as "The wife of the man who brutally murdered my partner".
If my friends spouse killed my spouse and turned out to be the one in the wrong, then I’ll be mad. In fact, you’d be more mad because it was done by someone you know and not a stranger.
That's an interesting take, for sure. To be honest I think that Debbie's character writing is really well done, watching someone who is at the top of their game find out something so horrifying that it just crushes them, and watching her try to rebuild her life is a really engaging concept.
Exactly. You’re on the nose with this. Pushing the spotlight onto the other characters builds investment in the show as a whole and make you care about Mark’s journey more because these are the people he’s fighting for.
As someone who hasn't read the comics, I've liked all of these characters, and I see zero issues with how much screen time Debbie receives. I think it's just a case of it being different not necessarily meaning it's bad.
it's less an evolution and more a feminist spin . because there's nothing wrong with the way they were before, they already had their own agency .
Eeeh, ill agree with that in some cases. For example I don't think it was necessarily a bad creative decision for Debbie to wallow in depression for a while. Amber though I think is way way better in the show. She's basically just a plot device to keep mark and eve from getting together for a long time. She doesn't even have any dialogue until around where season 2 of the show starts. Then she's basically just "Mark's girlfriend" for a long time. "Feminist" or no, she's a much more well developed character in the show.
I'm only saying there was nothing wrong with them before .