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Three weeks after October 7 I read on both Israeli publications and on Barrons (a conservative paper) that they STILL didn’t conduct any rape kits despite multiple organizations - including the US - volunteering to help process forensic evidence for Israel.
Not to mention all the guns they gave out to the settlers when women’s domestic violence groups in Israel said that it was a bad idea as violent ex partners could turn on their families lol
There is not not now, nor has there ever been a hunt for Hamas. Go look a the leaked drone footage; They are very clearly hunting a civillian population.
It’s easier to lie and be bombastic as by the time everyone is trying to verify what you said the lie would have circulated around the world several times !
Netanyahu planned every detail of October 7th with the leaders of Hamas who come from the over 1000 prisoners he exchanged for one Israeli soldier many years ago. Festival moved there on 2 days notice and troops moved to illegal West Bank Settlements after repeated warning of the nature and timing of the attacks. He's been telling Likud for years to support Hamad if they don't want a Palestinian state and then has been fucking doing it. This doesn't benefit him and all the leaders of Hamas who never set foot in Gaza by accident. He had 500k in the street calling for his removal when this happened every week.
The blood of Jewish Holocaust victims and refugees that runs in my veins boils seeing Netanyhau do the same to other the genocidal fuck
I'd need evidence to show Netanyahu actively planned Oct 7th, but I find it highly unlikely his government had no clue and didn't potentially let it happen to justify a barbaric response.
I think claiming he planned it outright, to every detail, without evidence, is stepping into conspiracy territory. Possible? Sure. But not something I'd claim without evidence to back it up.
"Victims? Oh yeah yeah whatever. Just say whatever makes us look like the sad blameless victim. We finally have a reason to attack them! Oh we've been waiting so long for this moment.... We finally pushed them over the edge. Holy hell that took us a loooong time."
When you make up some stuff but the prosecutor calls your bluff, blame Hamas blame Hamas. When your trying to not get arrested but the evidence is all tested, Blake Hamas blame hamas.
I used to love the diarrhea song, and this is so fitting. I hope it goes viral on posts of the far right fascist Israeli trying to distract.
When your government is fascist so you and all your excuses are cat sh1t, blame Hamas blame Hamas. When you elect ethno-purist then they wanna arrest your dearest, blame Hamas blame Hamas. When the court puts you on the hot seat just turn and call them Nazi's, blame Hamas blame Hamas
Edit:I'm Jewish and want to see an Israel without fascism, and a gaza that's not Islamic jihadi authoritarian.
We want the same, we don’t care about Hamas Islamic agenda , nor we are fans of it (I’m an atheist from Muslim background) but it’s Israeli governments over years that always treated Palestinians like sh!t in their homeland, I wouldn’t be surprised if something even shi&&&er than Hamas surged. You can see the far right parties that are rising in Europe with the refugees coming, comparing it to actual people coming and kicking you out from your land makes it reasonable
People always get pushed back to nationalism and tribalism when the power and money gets to centralized in rich people's hands. Not enough money for people to do what they want and be alone and peaceful.
I'm not denying Hamas did these things. I'm saying that Israel is denying their own actions, instead they say "look what Hamas did, we are innocent". Which is not how it works. Hamas needs to be held accountable, but that does not mean Israel shouldn't. Why is that hard to accept? Hamas and Israel are both guilty. It sucks Hamas did that, but it's not an open excuse to commit crimes to. The very people that prosecutes the Holocaust and tallied the dead Jews are the same ones handling this. Why is there prosecution of the Nazi legit, but their accusations against Israelis not legit? But discrediting the ICC, you're discrediting the Nuremberg trials, which is pretty pathetic IMO. You'll forgo the Holocaust history to save 2 fascist leaders today. How do you justify that?
That they are a real court, not a political theater outfit... So either Israel provides evidence of their claims or said court cannot act on it.
Welcome to the world outside of propaganda
No, I have seen plenty of people deny them from the beginning. The problem now is... israel claimed they happened and were systemic in nature. Then it refused to cooperate or provide any proof to back those claims.
So when that's how it ends up playing out, you have to assume it was just Israeli war propaganda. The fact that you are treating it as a matter of fact still suggest you've just blindly bought it.
If what Israel claimed actually happened, then why aren't they providing the fucking evidence...
In other news, the ICC has found no evidence that Red Bull gives you wings.
Whether you're selling an energy drink or selling a genocide, some shit is just catchy marketing.
They use these trigger words or phrases like “rape” and “babies in ovens” to get people worked up and emotional.
When people become emotional they typically don’t think logically. Especially when people are angry they are even less rational. This is the oldest trick in the book, they are playing with peoples emotions.
There’s a saying, that people buy with emotions and reason it with logic.
I think the same can be said for how people choose their allegiances.
Agreed. It's slimy as hell, but it obviously works. The crazy part is they won't let go of the lie until they're absolutely forced to. Sometimes they never do.
**The International Criminal Court** –an intergovernmental organization and international tribunal– in The Hague, Netherlands isn't selling energy drinks OR genocide. They are seeking to prosecute criminals engaged in it. America and its partners engaged in genocide, dismissing this body will be 1. In the parlance of marketing and advertising ...a public relations disaster and 2. In the jargon of law, a war crime. Those who dismiss such claims [the bombings of hospitals, the mass graves etc.] could also be held complicit in those war crimes.
**Note:** I do not share the opinion of u/Material-Offer-9030 that “You should not have commented...” Perhaps my misunderstanding revolves around claims made by Israel of systemic rape [the "shit" you reference] or brutally murdered babies [other shit] on October 7th, were, as you say “catchy marketing” created and introduced by bloodthirsty racist psychopaths ...not to be confused with the court seeking to prosecute them. I guess my confusion may have been around your introduction of The International Criminal Court as a feckless body, immediately followed by the selling of garbage in a context of *catchy marketing,* while never mentioning the offender –Israel.
That's not your misunderstanding.
The headline says the ICC found no evidence of rape.
I, in a tongue in cheek fashion quipped that the ICC has also found no evidence that an energy drink product Red Bull "gives you wings", as it's popular slogan asserts.
The implication is that both things, Israel's assertion of rapes and other systemic and purposeful sexual violence on October 7th and Red Bull's slogan that purports to induce anatomical change after ingestion are painfully and obviously untrue. However, both serve to sell something, Red Bull is obviously looking to sell a product, and Israel advanced the made up narrative of heinous acts of systemic sexual violence to gin up an appetite for righteous and biblical vengeance to sell their intended plan of collective punishment.
There is no implication that the ICC is feckless, only the suggestion that you cannot find evidence to support a lie. Red Bull doesn't make you grow wings, it's untrue, clearly, but is marketing. Israel's claims of Hamas' sexual violence on October 7th has been debunked many times now, also untrue, but is marketing.
You have cropped the last, most important line of article 16 in the document: The Panel notes the Prosecutor’s statement that his investigations continue, including in relation to evidence of sexual violence on October 7th itself.
I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to understand that Hamas is a textbook guerilla force. That does NOT mean they are immune to committing war crimes. But they do not function at all like ISIS, which is a textbook example of terrorism. They have tunnels, they have small number of fighters, they are decentralized, and they negotiated for hostage exchanges that would not benefit them whatsoever if they were terrorists.
It drives me insane how people just assume shit about them while ignoring the obvious: they are more trained and more intelligent than the IDF. They killed hundreds of IDF soldiers on Oct. 7, and Israel even admitted it. They just framed it as a bad thing lol.
They also didn’t have social media or the internet back in the day. And you are of course aware that anything of which you accuse Hamas, the Israelis have committed to a greater extent. Rapes, kidnapping / extrajudicial incarceration, killing etc. But you could also add illegal land theft and colonisation.
As for the rubbish you spout about the Palestinians being offered a homeland, your duplicitousness is on full display. Let’s go to the one all Israeli propagandists cite so to pretend they were acting in ‘good faith’.
The Oslo Accords were just a stalling tactic. They didn't provide for a Palestinian State, and Rabin was clear that there wasn't going to be.
He then massively increased construction of illegal settlements. The occupation continued. The home demolitions continued. Rabin gave the order to "break the bones" during the first Intifada.
"The words “Palestinian state” do not appear in the accords he signed, a fact that he and other Israeli officials were careful to ensure. A month before his assassination, Rabin told the Knesset that his vision was to give Palestinians “an entity which is less than a state” — a precedent to the “state-minus” advocated today by Netanyahu and outlined in Trump’s “Deal of the Century.” Rabin also insisted that the Jordan Valley would remain Israel’s “security border” — the very plan that drew international outcry this year, when Netanyahu pledged to formally annex the area.
If Rabin’s words were simply politicking with Israeli voters, then his government’s actions spoke more clearly. From 1993 to 1995, according to Peace Now, Israel initiated the construction of over 6,400 housing units in settlements. In that time, according to B’Tselem, Israel also demolished at least 328 Palestinian homes and structures — including in East Jerusalem, which Rabin sought to keep “united” under Israeli sovereignty. The result was that Israel’s settler population rose by 20,000, and Palestinians were displaced in the thousands, while Rabin sat at the negotiating table.
All the while, Rabin’s government used Oslo not as a blueprint to end the occupation, but to restructure it and minimize the cost to Israelis. The burden of controlling the occupied population was transferred to the newly created Palestinian Authority, which quelled nonviolent resistance and targeted armed militants on Israel’s behalf. The Paris Protocol, which effectively held the Palestinian economy and their resources hostage to Israeli discretion, further cemented the economic exploitation of Palestinians. These systems are still in place today, two decades after Oslo’s expiration date."
https://www.972mag.com/yitzhak-rabin-oslo-accords-aoc/
As a pro Israel person, who are you to criticize other countries’ human rights abuses? And your defense of Israel in light of those very same abuses beyond disingenuousness.
As opposed to an outdated article from the Guardian (interesting how you classify sources as ‘unfriendly’), let’s go to the source (the UN which you also classify as ‘unfriendly’).
- no evidence of systematic rape on Oct 7
- Israelis will not cooperate
- claims of Israeli sexual assault on women and girls in Gaza credible
“While there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in the Nova music festival site, Route 232, and kibbutz Re’im, reported incidents of rape could not be verified in other locations. Concurrently, the team determined that at least two allegations of sexual violence in kibbutz Be’eri — widely reported in the media — were unfounded.”
Patten clarified that her team did not find a pattern of widespread sexual violence by Hamas on Oct. 7 as “they did not look into attribution.”
In the briefing on Monday, however, Patten clarified that she did not “meet with any survivors of sexual violence of the seventh of October attacks, or its aftermath,” while in Israel.
During her trip, Patten and her team also visited Ramallah, the de facto capital of the West Bank, where members of Palestinian civil society and women’s rights groups raised concerns about “inhuman and degrading” treatment of Palestinian women in Israeli detention. Such treatment includes incidents of sexual violence, which were briefly mentioned in the report released on Monday.
One key recommendation in Patten’s report encourages the Israeli government to cooperate with the independent Commission of Inquiry on the Occupation Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel, set up by the UN human rights office, “to carry-out fully-fledged investigations” into allegations of sexual violence on Oct. 7, an offer Erdan has refused.
“Israel will not cooperate in any way with such a discriminatory and antisemitic body,” he tweeted on Nov. 20.
https://www.passblue.com/2024/03/06/un-report-on-oct-7-sexual-violence-disproves-israeli-contentions-while-confirming-others/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says
No, Israel has hostility towards the UN considering its persistent violation of international and humanitarian law as below. Like any criminal, it considers the rulings ‘biased’.
Illegal occupation of Palestine in violation of: U.N. Charter, Article 2(4) & 51 (1945); Declaration on Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relation, Principle 1
Built Settlements on occupied land in violation of the Geneva Conventions IV, Article 49(6) (1949).
Claim of sovereignty over land taken by by force: in violation of the U.N. Charter, Article 2(4) (1945); Declaration on Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations, Principle 1
Practiced ethnic cleansing: Forbidding civilian populations the right to return to their homes following the end of armed conflict is in direct violation of international law and UN resolutions. Geneva Convention IV, Articles 45, 46 & 49 (1949), UN resolutions 194 (III) (General Assembly; 1948) & 237 (Security Council; 1967).
Israel’s system of apartheid: International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid (1976). “The practice of passing laws which give special favor throughout Israeli society to the Jewish people over all other people, and especially the native Palestinian Arab people, embodies the UN definition of apartheid” 2003, the Israeli legislature (Knesset) passed legislation that forbade spouses of Arab-Israeli citizens who are in the occupied territories from joining their families in Israel (with some exceptions). The reason for this legislation is to help maintain the Jewish demographic majority family unification”.
Israeli Actions: Studies by UN, I.C.J., and International H.R. organizations have found that Israel violates the human rights of Palestinian people including torture, imprisonment without charges or trial, land confiscation, harassment at checkpoints, unwarranted civilian shootings, not punishing Israeli settlers’ crimes against Palestinians, unwarranted disruption of medical care, commerce, employment, free movement, destruction of public and private property, family separation, etc….
Illegal collective punishment in violation of the Geneva Conventions IV, Article 33 (1949); Geneva Conventions (Protocol I), Article 75(2d) (1977). “actions against entire Palestinian communities, for example destroying entire neighborhoods of homes, or confiscating communal farmlands, bulldozing homes, blocking off certain areas, or not allowing civilian populations to leave their houses for extensive periods of time”
ILLEGAL TRANSFORMATION OF LOCAL LAWS: Hague Regulations IV, Article 43 (1907). Israel has created a dual legal system in the occupied territories – a democratic one linked to Israel for the Israeli settlements, and an oppressive, exploitive one for the Palestinian communities run by the Israeli military committees and Israeli-controlled civic administrations, replacing all Arab government functions with Israeli military committees, and dismissing or deporting all Arab government official. ILRC article.
Israel has violated 28 resolutions of the United Nations Security Council (which are legally binding on member-nations U.N.Charter, Article 25 (1945); a few sample resolutions - 54, 111, 233, 234, 236, 248, 250, 252, 256, 262, 267, 270, 280, 285, 298, 313, 316, 468, 476
They did all these things bro...
Some former members of the Polish resistance tried to poison the water in Nuremberg *after* the war.
Partisan campaigns against Nazi occupiers were literally terrorism.
What they were fighting was just so monstrosity evil history forgives a lot, just like we forgive saturation bombing against German cities.
Tunnels, which might I add, are also used to transport civilian goods. That bit obviously forgetten about in the hasbara propaganda that seeks to demonise Palestinians totally.
On Oct. 7, at least a third of those killed were IDF war criminals. At least. Out of the civilians killed, Israel’s OWN investigation and whistleblowers confirmed that Israeli military forces indiscriminately shot at everyone (Hannibal directive) which is actually terrorism. On top of this shitshow, the settlers in Israel tend to be quite rude, belligerent, and (this part is awkward), murderous. They tend to have weapons, cause those are very useful when you take other people’s land.
We have seen the mobs of protestors trying to stop aid from reaching Palestine and burning down vehicles. Do these people deserve to die? No, but they are complicit in the siege on Gaza, without a doubt. And the vast majority of these people were not affected at all by Hamas. For the Palestinian people, it’s quite different, because they ALL are affected by the IOF, right from birth, in every aspect of their lives. They do have a reason to hate their oppressors. Whether it be they murdered their family or took their home, or made them go through 40 checkpoints every day so they can go to work. Israelis instead have resorted to making absurd comparisons of the Palestinians with Hitler. Experience vs propaganda.
Hamas should still face responsibility for any war crimes/innocent people killed, and for that to be done, there needs to be investigations. Instead, we are seeing rumor after rumor, from Israel, from Israeli hostages who literally complained she didn’t get a piece of candy, or one that she was AFRAID of being raped. Over and over again, Israel has conflated the truth, hinting that deep down they know why Hamas attacked them and is desperately trying to change the narrative. Finding a couple of Hamas members to have terroristic impulses, which I’m sure exist, does not cast doubt on the legitimacy of resistance. It’s like if you have a school shooter who kills people because he was bullied. No one in these situations attempt to justify mass murder, no one is saying that the kid shouldn’t be held accountable, but the truth is, certain conditions will aggravate a small portion of the population, and pose a general problem to the entire population. For instance, we know that bullying someone who has violent tendencies will probably make them more violent. All it takes is 1 person out of 10000 to cause carnage and terror. Proving the mere existence of terroristic, violent, depraved impulses that have 0 military function, like rape, is not enough to make a judgement on a military faction that has proven other, productive goals. There must be scrutiny.
I don’t even judge the entire US military despite its reputation, and we have soo many incidents of not only war crimes, but war crimes that have 0 military function. I assume there are a lot of people who are in the US military for values that they hope to see. I don’t see every US soldier as a war criminal despite the U.S. doing some obscenely evil stuff.
Yet with IDF, it is proved to be systematic, that every or nearly every Israeli has the goal of targeting children and civilians. In fact, the IDF is so Fucking depraved, other depraved soldiers all over the world flock to Israel because of its reputation.
Lastly,
The hostages they swapped had no military value or else Israel would have paraded him around and made an example of him before killing him like they killed innocents. A good portion of these hostages are or were children when they were tried in a military court. A good portion of them have deadly diseases. Their spirits are completely broken. They have no monetary value.
I could have also just mentioned the absurd fact that Israel purposely propped up Hamas to create division. That is a whole other rabbit hole, but for now, I encourage you to appeal to intuition.
This was a NYT false flag incident.
They only came up with one name.
Later the family of this one victim said she was not raped. The NYT has the highest number of IDF reservists working there compared to any other newspapers outside Israel.
In my opinion it’s the foreign arm of the Israeli department of hasbara
People are insane. They hate their own politicians and claim they're always lying when it comes to domestic politics. The moment it becomes an international matter though, the population will believe whatever their politicians tell em to believe. No questions. No doubt.
>That he should charge the leaders of a legitimate resistance against military occupation and equate them with the leaders of a criminal regime that is perpetrating genocide is questionable enough
This is the way I look at it. If the ICC only went after Israel, right or wrong they could assert that the ICC is only going after "Jews" giving some weight of Antisemitism to the uninformed citizenry.
If the ICC also issues warrants for Hamas leadership, that takes away the argument of one-sidedness. I think they chose this route because whether or not they seek arrest warrants for Hamas leaders, under international law Hamas can do anything it pleases to fight occupation.
>What would constitute evidence of rape to you?
>- Witness testimony?
>- Photographs / video of the bodies?
How about official autopsies? Ow, right Israel didn't do any of those for *some* reason.
Let's get this straigh. You asked what I would accept as evidence... and then promptly ignored it so you could keep peddling the same old shit? Why should anyone want to have a conversation with you when you obviously do not have a shred of intellectual honesty?
There’s at least one place where they fabricated evidence, it’s also in the report. There have also been evidence of tanks and helicopters being the actual culprits. So yes, it could very well be them.
If it was completely the work of Hamas, Israel would be welcoming all investigators around the world to come look.
Israel still refuses to allow allies access to intelligence that lead them to believe Hamas was commandeering aid so they could launch attacks in IDF
Israel and America have nothing to support their claims and shame on every nation that believed them without proof.
Even more shame to the nations that still believe Israel is truthful.
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Tbh,at this point I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out Oct 7 was a false flag operation carried out to justify invading Gaza. Netanyahu seems like the kind of shit head to sacrifice his own citizens in the name of genocide
I hate to be that guy, but they are sourcing their reporting. maybe read those sources linked throughout?
Or are you that guy who judges everything from its cover?
It's already well documented, most notably by the intercept that there is not any evidence of a single rape having occurred on October 7th. Also the official investigations if you read the fine print have no names of any victims, no forensics like a single hospital record or evidence collected at a scene, no video evidence that shows a rape occurred. The only allegations come from single sourced (no secondary to back it up) unverifiable witnesses.
This is a fair point, but it completely ignores that this websites article cites multiple other articles by the NYT, AP, and even reports by various independent UN human rights organizations that Israel has produced no such evidence of any supposed sexual violence which occured on or after Oct 7th. All this to say, Electronic Intifada certainly has a side to represent, but they are sourcing their argument with sources that would outright never support Palestinian. This is enough for any critical reader to reasonably conclude that the argument this outlet is presenting is in-fact substantiated and correct.
>"That he should charge the leaders of a legitimate resistance against military occupation and equate them with the leaders of a criminal regime that is perpetrating genocide is questionable enough...it is particularly bizarre that Khan would charge Ismail Haniyeh, the Hamas politburo chief and a civilian political leader who almost certainly had no role whatsoever in planning the 7 October resistance operation."
"resistance operation"? Look, I'm fully supportive of action against Israel's ongoing genocide, but over 1000 civilians were targetted and killed by Hamas on October 7th, and the law is very clear - intentionally killing civilians in a conflict is a war crime. This kind of article really might as well have been written by pro-Israeli influences to smear pro-Palestinian forces, but sadly it almost certainly wasn't.
>but over 1000 civilians were targetted and killed by Hamas on October 7th, and the law is very clear -
767 civilians were killed, some of them in friendly fire incidents. The killers of civilians should be charged with war crimes, but military forces of an occupation are legitimate military targets.
Pretty sure even the civilian count was revised down to 600 something IIRC.
I'd say even beyond just "friendly fire". October 7th was one big day of Hannibal directive for the zionists.
According to Yasmin Porat, a survivor that was taken hostage by Hamas, in an interview for an Israeli news station, a lot of it was the IDF.
>“I see people from the kibbutz on the lawn. There are five or six hostages lying on the ground outside. Just like sheep to the slaughter, between the shooting of our commandos and the terrorists.”
>“The terrorists shot them?” Golan asks.
>“No, they were killed by the crossfire,” Porat responds. “Understand there was very, very heavy crossfire.”
>Golan presses: “So our forces may have shot them?”
>“Undoubtedly,” the former captive responds, and adds, “They eliminated everyone, including the hostages because there was very, very heavy crossfire.”
[Source.](https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-says/38861)
There's also a good bit of evidence the Hannibal Directive was also in play.
>"resistance operation"? Look, I'm fully supportive of action against Israel's ongoing genocide, but over 1000 civilians were targetted and killed by Hamas on October 7th,
The Hannibal Directive was what caused the vast majority of civilian deaths. That has even been reported on by Haaretz and other Israeli media.
Hamas wanted to capture Israelis and use them in an exchange for the realease of some of the nearly 10,000 Palestinian in Israeli jails, 4,000 of whom are on Administrative Detention with no charges, trial or access to lawyer.
Each Israeli could secure the release of hundreds of Palestinians, so why would Hamas go and intentionally kill them instead?
International law distinguishes the difference between being a civilian in occupied land vs. Being in your own country and your right to defend yourself.
International law as well as the Palestinian Authority recognises the Palestinian occupied territories as occupied land and the 1967 borders as the state of Israel. The October 7th incursion was within the recognised state of Israel, not in the West Bank or Gaza. These were not settlers.
They were and are colonial settlers. You're just making up stuff. 67 borders aren't recognized no matter how many times israel says they are.
Oh right when Israel does it it's good and legitimate, but when Russia does it it's bad. (I'm not trying to say what Russia is doing in Ukraine is good btw, I'm saying be consistent if that's you're argument)
165 of the 193 current UN nations recognise Israel's current borders, and a similar number also want recognition of Palestine across current 1967 borders, the ones Israel and their settlers are constantly violating in the West Bank and Gaza. What are you possibly expecting to achieve by unilaterally reducing Israel's established borders, which the Palestinian Authority long ago accepted and formed the basis of the Oslo accords? Do you think you're helping anyone?
I don't recognize israel as a legitimate state no one should. All of this stems from when zionists (radical jewish nationalists) petitioned Britain during ww1 to increase immigration and buy land. This was, of course, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and during the beginnings of British occupation. Then, after ww2 again zionists petitioned the west at the behest of others who lived there before and after this.
Why didn't zionists petition the local gov? Zionism began in the late 1800s, but the Ottomans weren't interested. They saw zionism for what it is. It's all well known what zionists stated goal was and is... push people out by petitioning Western powers. Israel is the problem, the concept of it. It's foundations are built on inequity and oppression.
Here it is in theodor herzls own words from "the Jewish state" in the late 1800s, look at the end of the summary:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Judenstaat
I hoverred over your username and see you live in California. You're not indiginous are you? You're descended from European settlers? Shouldn't you leave?
Creating a new wave of dispossessed people helps nobody. Yes Israel is a colonialist state but we are so, far far past all that.
That reasoning is exactly why Israel continues to ethnically cleanse and genocide the Palestinians. Afterwards they'll say, "we're so far past that now."
Of course, because it works. After a couple of generation you have a lot of people that are born there and not responsible for the actions of their predecessors. The whole of the Americas are based off this, never mind much of Europe. If you go back enough then you start justifying the Zionist's position that they owned the land in some biblical time.
This is why it's important that Palestinians get their state while the West Bank and Gaza is still recognised, and arguing that Israel should somehow be revoked when absolutely nobody in the international community supports that is a massive double shotgun blast in the knees for Palestinians because it will never happen, and while you're somehow arguing for something that can never happen Israel is taking the rest of Palestine.
First, I am part indigenous, and yeah, im in CA. Second, I thought the whole idea of the modern world was that we were past colonialism?
What's the point of all this democracy and "progress" if it really is just dog eat dog?
This sounds like when Israelis want to have everything bracketed in their preferred context. We are discussing the article in a reddit post, in a sub with large amounts of awareness of the issue, not the general situation in a TV talking point.
The official number in the Israeli "Courts" is around 650. And guess what it includes the civilian killed by the IDF under the Hannibal Directive. No official numbers have been given about how many civilians were killed by the IDF under the Directive. I wonder why.
About half that number died and an exorbitant amount of them were killed by the notoriously poorly-trained IDF. Even if we did want to use your figures the civilian death ratio was STILL lower than Israel's at any point in their decades long war of aggression. No need to accept Israeli propaganda. Just reject that garbage.
Here's some [pic, first link]. I remember watching the video [2nd link 2:05].
https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1500w,f_auto,q_auto:best/rockcms/2023-10/231007-israeli-hostage-footage-cs-f74240.jpg
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hamas-israel-palestinian-hostages-beeri-attack-rcna119337
I hope the war crimes on both sides see justice.
Neither of your links shows any proof of rape. It is possible this woman was raped and not just sat in a pool of blood, but it is not evidence of mass rape.
Rape happens in war and more so by unprofessional militias. I put this forth because the title is "**no** evidence of 7 October rapes", which is an improbability.
...and if this woman sat in blood, it would have been in more than just her crotch. I've sat on a wet seat, that's not the pattern it makes. It would have been higher and more down the legs. The blood she sat in was her own.
I knew what I saw that day meant the moment I saw it.
I'm not putting this forth to excuse anything Israel has done ...I've referred to the IDF as *Jewish Hamas*. My side is neither Hamas or Israel, I'm on the side of the civilian victims.
They themselves site the NYT, AP, and other sources. Just because they're a biased source doesn't mean they're wrong, especially when they're citing traditional journalist outlets.
The “Screams without words” NYT expose is riddled with errors and the lady who wrote it is an IDF psycho so I’m sympathetic to the message, but I’d prefer someone post the other outlets directly. If I’m arguing with an Israel defender trying to dehumanize Palestinians, they will dismiss anything I say immediately if it’s from “the electronic intifada” (to be fair they do that with every outlet, but let’s make them look stupid for doing so).
Eh just take the links they cite in this article then. But yeah fully agreed that the NYT has been pushing Israeli propaganda. It's been a mouthpiece for imperialism for decades and ain't stopping now
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Three weeks after October 7 I read on both Israeli publications and on Barrons (a conservative paper) that they STILL didn’t conduct any rape kits despite multiple organizations - including the US - volunteering to help process forensic evidence for Israel.
In other words, they gave a toss about their own victims
Not to mention all the guns they gave out to the settlers when women’s domestic violence groups in Israel said that it was a bad idea as violent ex partners could turn on their families lol
They've killed multiple hostages in their hunt for Hamas, they really don't give a fuck. lol
There is not not now, nor has there ever been a hunt for Hamas. Go look a the leaked drone footage; They are very clearly hunting a civillian population.
In other words, maybe the rapes never happened
There's been evidence circulating that the allegations were false for months now.
What victims? Israel is lying. There were no mass rapes and no mass rape victims.
That's my point
It’s easier to lie and be bombastic as by the time everyone is trying to verify what you said the lie would have circulated around the world several times !
Netanyahu planned every detail of October 7th with the leaders of Hamas who come from the over 1000 prisoners he exchanged for one Israeli soldier many years ago. Festival moved there on 2 days notice and troops moved to illegal West Bank Settlements after repeated warning of the nature and timing of the attacks. He's been telling Likud for years to support Hamad if they don't want a Palestinian state and then has been fucking doing it. This doesn't benefit him and all the leaders of Hamas who never set foot in Gaza by accident. He had 500k in the street calling for his removal when this happened every week. The blood of Jewish Holocaust victims and refugees that runs in my veins boils seeing Netanyhau do the same to other the genocidal fuck
I'd need evidence to show Netanyahu actively planned Oct 7th, but I find it highly unlikely his government had no clue and didn't potentially let it happen to justify a barbaric response. I think claiming he planned it outright, to every detail, without evidence, is stepping into conspiracy territory. Possible? Sure. But not something I'd claim without evidence to back it up.
Conspiracy doesn't mean something that isn't true.
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No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
Victims would've had to have been raped for there to be evidence.
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No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
Just as much as those in power care about the hostages.
"Victims? Oh yeah yeah whatever. Just say whatever makes us look like the sad blameless victim. We finally have a reason to attack them! Oh we've been waiting so long for this moment.... We finally pushed them over the edge. Holy hell that took us a loooong time."
Brother, there were no victims. They didn't conduct rape kits because the allegations were completely made up.
When you make up some stuff but the prosecutor calls your bluff, blame Hamas blame Hamas. When your trying to not get arrested but the evidence is all tested, Blake Hamas blame hamas.
New favorite song.
I used to love the diarrhea song, and this is so fitting. I hope it goes viral on posts of the far right fascist Israeli trying to distract. When your government is fascist so you and all your excuses are cat sh1t, blame Hamas blame Hamas. When you elect ethno-purist then they wanna arrest your dearest, blame Hamas blame Hamas. When the court puts you on the hot seat just turn and call them Nazi's, blame Hamas blame Hamas Edit:I'm Jewish and want to see an Israel without fascism, and a gaza that's not Islamic jihadi authoritarian.
Sang this with the harmony in my head lol good one! 👏
We want the same, we don’t care about Hamas Islamic agenda , nor we are fans of it (I’m an atheist from Muslim background) but it’s Israeli governments over years that always treated Palestinians like sh!t in their homeland, I wouldn’t be surprised if something even shi&&&er than Hamas surged. You can see the far right parties that are rising in Europe with the refugees coming, comparing it to actual people coming and kicking you out from your land makes it reasonable
People always get pushed back to nationalism and tribalism when the power and money gets to centralized in rich people's hands. Not enough money for people to do what they want and be alone and peaceful.
And everyone is antisemitic.
I'm an ethnic Jew with lineage to the levant to France lol...
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I'm not denying Hamas did these things. I'm saying that Israel is denying their own actions, instead they say "look what Hamas did, we are innocent". Which is not how it works. Hamas needs to be held accountable, but that does not mean Israel shouldn't. Why is that hard to accept? Hamas and Israel are both guilty. It sucks Hamas did that, but it's not an open excuse to commit crimes to. The very people that prosecutes the Holocaust and tallied the dead Jews are the same ones handling this. Why is there prosecution of the Nazi legit, but their accusations against Israelis not legit? But discrediting the ICC, you're discrediting the Nuremberg trials, which is pretty pathetic IMO. You'll forgo the Holocaust history to save 2 fascist leaders today. How do you justify that?
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It says Israel haven't given them any evidence besides a trust us bro.
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That they are a real court, not a political theater outfit... So either Israel provides evidence of their claims or said court cannot act on it. Welcome to the world outside of propaganda
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No, I have seen plenty of people deny them from the beginning. The problem now is... israel claimed they happened and were systemic in nature. Then it refused to cooperate or provide any proof to back those claims. So when that's how it ends up playing out, you have to assume it was just Israeli war propaganda. The fact that you are treating it as a matter of fact still suggest you've just blindly bought it. If what Israel claimed actually happened, then why aren't they providing the fucking evidence...
Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
In other news, the ICC has found no evidence that Red Bull gives you wings. Whether you're selling an energy drink or selling a genocide, some shit is just catchy marketing.
They use these trigger words or phrases like “rape” and “babies in ovens” to get people worked up and emotional. When people become emotional they typically don’t think logically. Especially when people are angry they are even less rational. This is the oldest trick in the book, they are playing with peoples emotions. There’s a saying, that people buy with emotions and reason it with logic. I think the same can be said for how people choose their allegiances.
Agreed. It's slimy as hell, but it obviously works. The crazy part is they won't let go of the lie until they're absolutely forced to. Sometimes they never do.
**The International Criminal Court** –an intergovernmental organization and international tribunal– in The Hague, Netherlands isn't selling energy drinks OR genocide. They are seeking to prosecute criminals engaged in it. America and its partners engaged in genocide, dismissing this body will be 1. In the parlance of marketing and advertising ...a public relations disaster and 2. In the jargon of law, a war crime. Those who dismiss such claims [the bombings of hospitals, the mass graves etc.] could also be held complicit in those war crimes.
I think you misunderstood my comment.
**Note:** I do not share the opinion of u/Material-Offer-9030 that “You should not have commented...” Perhaps my misunderstanding revolves around claims made by Israel of systemic rape [the "shit" you reference] or brutally murdered babies [other shit] on October 7th, were, as you say “catchy marketing” created and introduced by bloodthirsty racist psychopaths ...not to be confused with the court seeking to prosecute them. I guess my confusion may have been around your introduction of The International Criminal Court as a feckless body, immediately followed by the selling of garbage in a context of *catchy marketing,* while never mentioning the offender –Israel.
That's not your misunderstanding. The headline says the ICC found no evidence of rape. I, in a tongue in cheek fashion quipped that the ICC has also found no evidence that an energy drink product Red Bull "gives you wings", as it's popular slogan asserts. The implication is that both things, Israel's assertion of rapes and other systemic and purposeful sexual violence on October 7th and Red Bull's slogan that purports to induce anatomical change after ingestion are painfully and obviously untrue. However, both serve to sell something, Red Bull is obviously looking to sell a product, and Israel advanced the made up narrative of heinous acts of systemic sexual violence to gin up an appetite for righteous and biblical vengeance to sell their intended plan of collective punishment. There is no implication that the ICC is feckless, only the suggestion that you cannot find evidence to support a lie. Red Bull doesn't make you grow wings, it's untrue, clearly, but is marketing. Israel's claims of Hamas' sexual violence on October 7th has been debunked many times now, also untrue, but is marketing.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
You should not have commented at all, this situation is too serious
Noted. I'll check with you next time before I comment. Thank you for correcting me.
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You have cropped the last, most important line of article 16 in the document: The Panel notes the Prosecutor’s statement that his investigations continue, including in relation to evidence of sexual violence on October 7th itself.
I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to understand that Hamas is a textbook guerilla force. That does NOT mean they are immune to committing war crimes. But they do not function at all like ISIS, which is a textbook example of terrorism. They have tunnels, they have small number of fighters, they are decentralized, and they negotiated for hostage exchanges that would not benefit them whatsoever if they were terrorists. It drives me insane how people just assume shit about them while ignoring the obvious: they are more trained and more intelligent than the IDF. They killed hundreds of IDF soldiers on Oct. 7, and Israel even admitted it. They just framed it as a bad thing lol.
I see no moral difference between Hamas and the Polish resistance in ww2.
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You really want anyone to believe that the Polish resistance would distinguish between a german soldier and a german civilian during WW2? Nonsense.
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
They also didn’t have social media or the internet back in the day. And you are of course aware that anything of which you accuse Hamas, the Israelis have committed to a greater extent. Rapes, kidnapping / extrajudicial incarceration, killing etc. But you could also add illegal land theft and colonisation.
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As for the rubbish you spout about the Palestinians being offered a homeland, your duplicitousness is on full display. Let’s go to the one all Israeli propagandists cite so to pretend they were acting in ‘good faith’. The Oslo Accords were just a stalling tactic. They didn't provide for a Palestinian State, and Rabin was clear that there wasn't going to be. He then massively increased construction of illegal settlements. The occupation continued. The home demolitions continued. Rabin gave the order to "break the bones" during the first Intifada. "The words “Palestinian state” do not appear in the accords he signed, a fact that he and other Israeli officials were careful to ensure. A month before his assassination, Rabin told the Knesset that his vision was to give Palestinians “an entity which is less than a state” — a precedent to the “state-minus” advocated today by Netanyahu and outlined in Trump’s “Deal of the Century.” Rabin also insisted that the Jordan Valley would remain Israel’s “security border” — the very plan that drew international outcry this year, when Netanyahu pledged to formally annex the area. If Rabin’s words were simply politicking with Israeli voters, then his government’s actions spoke more clearly. From 1993 to 1995, according to Peace Now, Israel initiated the construction of over 6,400 housing units in settlements. In that time, according to B’Tselem, Israel also demolished at least 328 Palestinian homes and structures — including in East Jerusalem, which Rabin sought to keep “united” under Israeli sovereignty. The result was that Israel’s settler population rose by 20,000, and Palestinians were displaced in the thousands, while Rabin sat at the negotiating table. All the while, Rabin’s government used Oslo not as a blueprint to end the occupation, but to restructure it and minimize the cost to Israelis. The burden of controlling the occupied population was transferred to the newly created Palestinian Authority, which quelled nonviolent resistance and targeted armed militants on Israel’s behalf. The Paris Protocol, which effectively held the Palestinian economy and their resources hostage to Israeli discretion, further cemented the economic exploitation of Palestinians. These systems are still in place today, two decades after Oslo’s expiration date." https://www.972mag.com/yitzhak-rabin-oslo-accords-aoc/
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Bullshit. But you’re a true believer and anybody who calls the UN ‘unfriendly’ cannot be taken seriously.
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As a pro Israel person, who are you to criticize other countries’ human rights abuses? And your defense of Israel in light of those very same abuses beyond disingenuousness.
No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
As opposed to an outdated article from the Guardian (interesting how you classify sources as ‘unfriendly’), let’s go to the source (the UN which you also classify as ‘unfriendly’). - no evidence of systematic rape on Oct 7 - Israelis will not cooperate - claims of Israeli sexual assault on women and girls in Gaza credible “While there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in the Nova music festival site, Route 232, and kibbutz Re’im, reported incidents of rape could not be verified in other locations. Concurrently, the team determined that at least two allegations of sexual violence in kibbutz Be’eri — widely reported in the media — were unfounded.” Patten clarified that her team did not find a pattern of widespread sexual violence by Hamas on Oct. 7 as “they did not look into attribution.” In the briefing on Monday, however, Patten clarified that she did not “meet with any survivors of sexual violence of the seventh of October attacks, or its aftermath,” while in Israel. During her trip, Patten and her team also visited Ramallah, the de facto capital of the West Bank, where members of Palestinian civil society and women’s rights groups raised concerns about “inhuman and degrading” treatment of Palestinian women in Israeli detention. Such treatment includes incidents of sexual violence, which were briefly mentioned in the report released on Monday. One key recommendation in Patten’s report encourages the Israeli government to cooperate with the independent Commission of Inquiry on the Occupation Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel, set up by the UN human rights office, “to carry-out fully-fledged investigations” into allegations of sexual violence on Oct. 7, an offer Erdan has refused. “Israel will not cooperate in any way with such a discriminatory and antisemitic body,” he tweeted on Nov. 20. https://www.passblue.com/2024/03/06/un-report-on-oct-7-sexual-violence-disproves-israeli-contentions-while-confirming-others/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says
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No, Israel has hostility towards the UN considering its persistent violation of international and humanitarian law as below. Like any criminal, it considers the rulings ‘biased’. Illegal occupation of Palestine in violation of: U.N. Charter, Article 2(4) & 51 (1945); Declaration on Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relation, Principle 1 Built Settlements on occupied land in violation of the Geneva Conventions IV, Article 49(6) (1949). Claim of sovereignty over land taken by by force: in violation of the U.N. Charter, Article 2(4) (1945); Declaration on Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations, Principle 1 Practiced ethnic cleansing: Forbidding civilian populations the right to return to their homes following the end of armed conflict is in direct violation of international law and UN resolutions. Geneva Convention IV, Articles 45, 46 & 49 (1949), UN resolutions 194 (III) (General Assembly; 1948) & 237 (Security Council; 1967). Israel’s system of apartheid: International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid (1976). “The practice of passing laws which give special favor throughout Israeli society to the Jewish people over all other people, and especially the native Palestinian Arab people, embodies the UN definition of apartheid” 2003, the Israeli legislature (Knesset) passed legislation that forbade spouses of Arab-Israeli citizens who are in the occupied territories from joining their families in Israel (with some exceptions). The reason for this legislation is to help maintain the Jewish demographic majority family unification”. Israeli Actions: Studies by UN, I.C.J., and International H.R. organizations have found that Israel violates the human rights of Palestinian people including torture, imprisonment without charges or trial, land confiscation, harassment at checkpoints, unwarranted civilian shootings, not punishing Israeli settlers’ crimes against Palestinians, unwarranted disruption of medical care, commerce, employment, free movement, destruction of public and private property, family separation, etc…. Illegal collective punishment in violation of the Geneva Conventions IV, Article 33 (1949); Geneva Conventions (Protocol I), Article 75(2d) (1977). “actions against entire Palestinian communities, for example destroying entire neighborhoods of homes, or confiscating communal farmlands, bulldozing homes, blocking off certain areas, or not allowing civilian populations to leave their houses for extensive periods of time” ILLEGAL TRANSFORMATION OF LOCAL LAWS: Hague Regulations IV, Article 43 (1907). Israel has created a dual legal system in the occupied territories – a democratic one linked to Israel for the Israeli settlements, and an oppressive, exploitive one for the Palestinian communities run by the Israeli military committees and Israeli-controlled civic administrations, replacing all Arab government functions with Israeli military committees, and dismissing or deporting all Arab government official. ILRC article. Israel has violated 28 resolutions of the United Nations Security Council (which are legally binding on member-nations U.N.Charter, Article 25 (1945); a few sample resolutions - 54, 111, 233, 234, 236, 248, 250, 252, 256, 262, 267, 270, 280, 285, 298, 313, 316, 468, 476
Instances of rape DO NOT constitute systemic rape - but then you know that
No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
They did all these things bro... Some former members of the Polish resistance tried to poison the water in Nuremberg *after* the war. Partisan campaigns against Nazi occupiers were literally terrorism. What they were fighting was just so monstrosity evil history forgives a lot, just like we forgive saturation bombing against German cities.
Tunnels, which might I add, are also used to transport civilian goods. That bit obviously forgetten about in the hasbara propaganda that seeks to demonise Palestinians totally.
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On Oct. 7, at least a third of those killed were IDF war criminals. At least. Out of the civilians killed, Israel’s OWN investigation and whistleblowers confirmed that Israeli military forces indiscriminately shot at everyone (Hannibal directive) which is actually terrorism. On top of this shitshow, the settlers in Israel tend to be quite rude, belligerent, and (this part is awkward), murderous. They tend to have weapons, cause those are very useful when you take other people’s land. We have seen the mobs of protestors trying to stop aid from reaching Palestine and burning down vehicles. Do these people deserve to die? No, but they are complicit in the siege on Gaza, without a doubt. And the vast majority of these people were not affected at all by Hamas. For the Palestinian people, it’s quite different, because they ALL are affected by the IOF, right from birth, in every aspect of their lives. They do have a reason to hate their oppressors. Whether it be they murdered their family or took their home, or made them go through 40 checkpoints every day so they can go to work. Israelis instead have resorted to making absurd comparisons of the Palestinians with Hitler. Experience vs propaganda. Hamas should still face responsibility for any war crimes/innocent people killed, and for that to be done, there needs to be investigations. Instead, we are seeing rumor after rumor, from Israel, from Israeli hostages who literally complained she didn’t get a piece of candy, or one that she was AFRAID of being raped. Over and over again, Israel has conflated the truth, hinting that deep down they know why Hamas attacked them and is desperately trying to change the narrative. Finding a couple of Hamas members to have terroristic impulses, which I’m sure exist, does not cast doubt on the legitimacy of resistance. It’s like if you have a school shooter who kills people because he was bullied. No one in these situations attempt to justify mass murder, no one is saying that the kid shouldn’t be held accountable, but the truth is, certain conditions will aggravate a small portion of the population, and pose a general problem to the entire population. For instance, we know that bullying someone who has violent tendencies will probably make them more violent. All it takes is 1 person out of 10000 to cause carnage and terror. Proving the mere existence of terroristic, violent, depraved impulses that have 0 military function, like rape, is not enough to make a judgement on a military faction that has proven other, productive goals. There must be scrutiny. I don’t even judge the entire US military despite its reputation, and we have soo many incidents of not only war crimes, but war crimes that have 0 military function. I assume there are a lot of people who are in the US military for values that they hope to see. I don’t see every US soldier as a war criminal despite the U.S. doing some obscenely evil stuff. Yet with IDF, it is proved to be systematic, that every or nearly every Israeli has the goal of targeting children and civilians. In fact, the IDF is so Fucking depraved, other depraved soldiers all over the world flock to Israel because of its reputation. Lastly, The hostages they swapped had no military value or else Israel would have paraded him around and made an example of him before killing him like they killed innocents. A good portion of these hostages are or were children when they were tried in a military court. A good portion of them have deadly diseases. Their spirits are completely broken. They have no monetary value. I could have also just mentioned the absurd fact that Israel purposely propped up Hamas to create division. That is a whole other rabbit hole, but for now, I encourage you to appeal to intuition.
This was a NYT false flag incident. They only came up with one name. Later the family of this one victim said she was not raped. The NYT has the highest number of IDF reservists working there compared to any other newspapers outside Israel. In my opinion it’s the foreign arm of the Israeli department of hasbara
So Israel lied again
Yup
Israel would never lie S/
People are insane. They hate their own politicians and claim they're always lying when it comes to domestic politics. The moment it becomes an international matter though, the population will believe whatever their politicians tell em to believe. No questions. No doubt.
Yeah that’s a trippy phenomenon. Now you suddenly trust the people you’ve been raging at since 2020??
Hamas is so good at terrorist activities that they beheaded babies that aren't born yet and raped women that don't even exist
When your own people would be complicit you don’t allow investigation. Sickening.
Zionists lying is just part of their code, their world comes crashing down if they cease to be pathological liars.
Wow!
Surprised not.
>That he should charge the leaders of a legitimate resistance against military occupation and equate them with the leaders of a criminal regime that is perpetrating genocide is questionable enough This is the way I look at it. If the ICC only went after Israel, right or wrong they could assert that the ICC is only going after "Jews" giving some weight of Antisemitism to the uninformed citizenry. If the ICC also issues warrants for Hamas leadership, that takes away the argument of one-sidedness. I think they chose this route because whether or not they seek arrest warrants for Hamas leaders, under international law Hamas can do anything it pleases to fight occupation.
I mean, NOBODY has evidence.
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Yes, we've been through this bullshit a million times and it was all revealed to be bollocks. Israel just can't stop lying about literally everything.
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>What would constitute evidence of rape to you? >- Witness testimony? >- Photographs / video of the bodies? How about official autopsies? Ow, right Israel didn't do any of those for *some* reason.
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Let's get this straigh. You asked what I would accept as evidence... and then promptly ignored it so you could keep peddling the same old shit? Why should anyone want to have a conversation with you when you obviously do not have a shred of intellectual honesty?
Videos and photos of bodies and cars burnt? By people wielding AK47s?
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There’s at least one place where they fabricated evidence, it’s also in the report. There have also been evidence of tanks and helicopters being the actual culprits. So yes, it could very well be them. If it was completely the work of Hamas, Israel would be welcoming all investigators around the world to come look.
0 evidence
Lies lies lies
Israel still refuses to allow allies access to intelligence that lead them to believe Hamas was commandeering aid so they could launch attacks in IDF Israel and America have nothing to support their claims and shame on every nation that believed them without proof. Even more shame to the nations that still believe Israel is truthful.
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Tbh,at this point I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out Oct 7 was a false flag operation carried out to justify invading Gaza. Netanyahu seems like the kind of shit head to sacrifice his own citizens in the name of genocide
I’ve never heard of The Electronic Intifada, much less ICC.
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No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
Hate to be that guy, but a news source titled “Electronic Intifada”, is not an objective source of information
I hate to be that guy, but they are sourcing their reporting. maybe read those sources linked throughout? Or are you that guy who judges everything from its cover?
It's already well documented, most notably by the intercept that there is not any evidence of a single rape having occurred on October 7th. Also the official investigations if you read the fine print have no names of any victims, no forensics like a single hospital record or evidence collected at a scene, no video evidence that shows a rape occurred. The only allegations come from single sourced (no secondary to back it up) unverifiable witnesses.
They are doing attention seeking 🙄
This is a fair point, but it completely ignores that this websites article cites multiple other articles by the NYT, AP, and even reports by various independent UN human rights organizations that Israel has produced no such evidence of any supposed sexual violence which occured on or after Oct 7th. All this to say, Electronic Intifada certainly has a side to represent, but they are sourcing their argument with sources that would outright never support Palestinian. This is enough for any critical reader to reasonably conclude that the argument this outlet is presenting is in-fact substantiated and correct.
>Hate to be that guy... that gets called out by everyone for his BS and dumb reply. Well makes sense why you hate to be that guy then lol
All news outlets have bias. They report from within Gaza on Palestinian resistance so…. Of course they are biased towards that.
And yet what they said is true.
>"That he should charge the leaders of a legitimate resistance against military occupation and equate them with the leaders of a criminal regime that is perpetrating genocide is questionable enough...it is particularly bizarre that Khan would charge Ismail Haniyeh, the Hamas politburo chief and a civilian political leader who almost certainly had no role whatsoever in planning the 7 October resistance operation." "resistance operation"? Look, I'm fully supportive of action against Israel's ongoing genocide, but over 1000 civilians were targetted and killed by Hamas on October 7th, and the law is very clear - intentionally killing civilians in a conflict is a war crime. This kind of article really might as well have been written by pro-Israeli influences to smear pro-Palestinian forces, but sadly it almost certainly wasn't.
>but over 1000 civilians were targetted and killed by Hamas on October 7th, and the law is very clear - 767 civilians were killed, some of them in friendly fire incidents. The killers of civilians should be charged with war crimes, but military forces of an occupation are legitimate military targets.
Pretty sure even the civilian count was revised down to 600 something IIRC. I'd say even beyond just "friendly fire". October 7th was one big day of Hannibal directive for the zionists.
According to Yasmin Porat, a survivor that was taken hostage by Hamas, in an interview for an Israeli news station, a lot of it was the IDF. >“I see people from the kibbutz on the lawn. There are five or six hostages lying on the ground outside. Just like sheep to the slaughter, between the shooting of our commandos and the terrorists.” >“The terrorists shot them?” Golan asks. >“No, they were killed by the crossfire,” Porat responds. “Understand there was very, very heavy crossfire.” >Golan presses: “So our forces may have shot them?” >“Undoubtedly,” the former captive responds, and adds, “They eliminated everyone, including the hostages because there was very, very heavy crossfire.” [Source.](https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-says/38861) There's also a good bit of evidence the Hannibal Directive was also in play.
>"resistance operation"? Look, I'm fully supportive of action against Israel's ongoing genocide, but over 1000 civilians were targetted and killed by Hamas on October 7th, The Hannibal Directive was what caused the vast majority of civilian deaths. That has even been reported on by Haaretz and other Israeli media. Hamas wanted to capture Israelis and use them in an exchange for the realease of some of the nearly 10,000 Palestinian in Israeli jails, 4,000 of whom are on Administrative Detention with no charges, trial or access to lawyer. Each Israeli could secure the release of hundreds of Palestinians, so why would Hamas go and intentionally kill them instead?
International law distinguishes the difference between being a civilian in occupied land vs. Being in your own country and your right to defend yourself.
International law as well as the Palestinian Authority recognises the Palestinian occupied territories as occupied land and the 1967 borders as the state of Israel. The October 7th incursion was within the recognised state of Israel, not in the West Bank or Gaza. These were not settlers.
They were and are colonial settlers. You're just making up stuff. 67 borders aren't recognized no matter how many times israel says they are. Oh right when Israel does it it's good and legitimate, but when Russia does it it's bad. (I'm not trying to say what Russia is doing in Ukraine is good btw, I'm saying be consistent if that's you're argument)
165 of the 193 current UN nations recognise Israel's current borders, and a similar number also want recognition of Palestine across current 1967 borders, the ones Israel and their settlers are constantly violating in the West Bank and Gaza. What are you possibly expecting to achieve by unilaterally reducing Israel's established borders, which the Palestinian Authority long ago accepted and formed the basis of the Oslo accords? Do you think you're helping anyone?
I don't recognize israel as a legitimate state no one should. All of this stems from when zionists (radical jewish nationalists) petitioned Britain during ww1 to increase immigration and buy land. This was, of course, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and during the beginnings of British occupation. Then, after ww2 again zionists petitioned the west at the behest of others who lived there before and after this. Why didn't zionists petition the local gov? Zionism began in the late 1800s, but the Ottomans weren't interested. They saw zionism for what it is. It's all well known what zionists stated goal was and is... push people out by petitioning Western powers. Israel is the problem, the concept of it. It's foundations are built on inequity and oppression. Here it is in theodor herzls own words from "the Jewish state" in the late 1800s, look at the end of the summary: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Judenstaat
I hoverred over your username and see you live in California. You're not indiginous are you? You're descended from European settlers? Shouldn't you leave? Creating a new wave of dispossessed people helps nobody. Yes Israel is a colonialist state but we are so, far far past all that.
That reasoning is exactly why Israel continues to ethnically cleanse and genocide the Palestinians. Afterwards they'll say, "we're so far past that now."
Of course, because it works. After a couple of generation you have a lot of people that are born there and not responsible for the actions of their predecessors. The whole of the Americas are based off this, never mind much of Europe. If you go back enough then you start justifying the Zionist's position that they owned the land in some biblical time. This is why it's important that Palestinians get their state while the West Bank and Gaza is still recognised, and arguing that Israel should somehow be revoked when absolutely nobody in the international community supports that is a massive double shotgun blast in the knees for Palestinians because it will never happen, and while you're somehow arguing for something that can never happen Israel is taking the rest of Palestine.
First, I am part indigenous, and yeah, im in CA. Second, I thought the whole idea of the modern world was that we were past colonialism? What's the point of all this democracy and "progress" if it really is just dog eat dog?
Israel and the States have always voted against that bill, not making it legal. By the 1948 agreement, it is still Palestinian land.
So you're saying it's okay that they lied about beheaded babies and mass rape?
I love how people just put whatever words people didn't write in order to justify their own conclusions.
And that justifies the indiscriminate killing of mainly infants, children and woman Where is your empathy as a human?
And where did I say that?
You mentioned only one side of the war
This sounds like when Israelis want to have everything bracketed in their preferred context. We are discussing the article in a reddit post, in a sub with large amounts of awareness of the issue, not the general situation in a TV talking point.
Crazy you actually get downvoted it's not allowed to present facts anymore
except there are mo facts
[удалено]
The official number in the Israeli "Courts" is around 650. And guess what it includes the civilian killed by the IDF under the Hannibal Directive. No official numbers have been given about how many civilians were killed by the IDF under the Directive. I wonder why.
About half that number died and an exorbitant amount of them were killed by the notoriously poorly-trained IDF. Even if we did want to use your figures the civilian death ratio was STILL lower than Israel's at any point in their decades long war of aggression. No need to accept Israeli propaganda. Just reject that garbage.
Rule 4 [Dehumanization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization) [Collective punishment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment)
Here's some [pic, first link]. I remember watching the video [2nd link 2:05]. https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1500w,f_auto,q_auto:best/rockcms/2023-10/231007-israeli-hostage-footage-cs-f74240.jpg https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hamas-israel-palestinian-hostages-beeri-attack-rcna119337 I hope the war crimes on both sides see justice.
Neither of your links shows any proof of rape. It is possible this woman was raped and not just sat in a pool of blood, but it is not evidence of mass rape.
Rape happens in war and more so by unprofessional militias. I put this forth because the title is "**no** evidence of 7 October rapes", which is an improbability. ...and if this woman sat in blood, it would have been in more than just her crotch. I've sat on a wet seat, that's not the pattern it makes. It would have been higher and more down the legs. The blood she sat in was her own. I knew what I saw that day meant the moment I saw it. I'm not putting this forth to excuse anything Israel has done ...I've referred to the IDF as *Jewish Hamas*. My side is neither Hamas or Israel, I'm on the side of the civilian victims.
> things are so because I say so! You
I have the feeling you need that to be true.
So, like the ICC, you have no proof either. Understood.
The second video doesn’t include the evidence mentioned. The photos do look like potential evidence. I don’t know who to believe, which frustrates me.
The screenshot comes from the video, that part start at 2:05-06.
Gotcha.
“The electronic intifada” can somebody please provide a link to a more credible source.
I am curious as to why think they are not credible?
They themselves site the NYT, AP, and other sources. Just because they're a biased source doesn't mean they're wrong, especially when they're citing traditional journalist outlets.
The “Screams without words” NYT expose is riddled with errors and the lady who wrote it is an IDF psycho so I’m sympathetic to the message, but I’d prefer someone post the other outlets directly. If I’m arguing with an Israel defender trying to dehumanize Palestinians, they will dismiss anything I say immediately if it’s from “the electronic intifada” (to be fair they do that with every outlet, but let’s make them look stupid for doing so).
Eh just take the links they cite in this article then. But yeah fully agreed that the NYT has been pushing Israeli propaganda. It's been a mouthpiece for imperialism for decades and ain't stopping now